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View Full Version : Tim Tebow an NFL QB? Fail.


revefsreleets
01-26-2010, 01:06 PM
No surprise here...he's a FB or H-back at the next level, maybe even a safety, because there's no doubt he's an athlete. Just not a QB.*****

http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/football/blog/dr_saturday/post/Tim-Tebow-meets-his-worst-career-fears-in-Senior?urn=ncaaf,215726

On top of the technical issues (http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/football/blog/dr_saturday/post/Video-Brian-Billick-offers-substantive-critique?urn=ncaaf,211889) NFL scouts have with Tim Tebow as a prospective pro quarterback, there's also the standard next-level complaint about "the system" -- specifically, among other things, that Tebow spent the entirety of his college career at Florida taking snaps from the shotgun, never from under center, even in short-yardage situations. That seemingly minor qualm opens up an entirely new avenue of doubts about his ability to adjust to basic mechanics like footwork and turning his back to the defense, fundamentals most quarterbacks have converted to second nature long before they show up for NFL auditions (or, in most cases, before they ever set foot in an actual college game). Florida tried to address that last year by hiring respected quarterbacks coach Scott Loeffler from the pro ranks, practicing with Tebow under center (http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/football/blog/dr_saturday/post/Tweaking-Tebow-for-his-own-good-?urn=ncaaf,150833) and having him take a handful of "conventional" snaps in a few games, all with an eye to making the most celebrated college player in modern history a more viable prospect to the skeptics. But when he showed up Monday for the first day of heavy scrutiny at the Senior Bowl, all the old alarm bells started ringing at maximum volume (http://twitter.com/BFeldmanESPN/status/8222052636) -- Tebow reportedly flubbed his first snap from center (http://twitter.com/BFeldmanESPN/status/8208755146), and it only got uglier from there (http://www.palmbeachpost.com/sports/gators/tebow-fumbles-first-chance-to-impress-at-senior-195317.html):
Performing drills with fellow South team quarterbacks Zac Robinson of Oklahoma State and Jarrett Brown of West Virginia, Tebow fumbled the ball at least twice while taking snaps under center.
Later in team drills, Tebow fell into his same old habits — holding onto the ball too long, locking onto receivers and throwing wobbly passes.
The scouts noticed.
"He looks like the third QB out there," one NFC South talent evaluator said.
Of course, the two QBs in front of him, Robinson and Brown, also come from shotgun-based spread schemes that featured a steady dose of quarterback-as-runner, and former Texas Tech coach Mike Leach -- as prominent an acolyte of the "college spread" as you can find -- hilariously mocked the NFL mantra (http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/spt/football/nfl/draft/stories/031809dnspoleachbrite.3de7ff5.html) when his prolific protegé, Graham Harrell, met with failing grades from the scouts last spring. ("How could you possibly look yourself in the mirror and consider yourself an NFL coach and not be able to teach a guy to run back three steps, five steps and seven steps? I can teach a child that!") Longtime coach and quarterback guru Marc Trestman, who worked with Tebow to prepare for this week, said he didn't think Tebow looked bad enough to hurt himself; Miami Dolphins (http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/teams/mia/) coach Tony Sparano, overseeing the South roster, said Tebow improved over the course of the practice. If nothing else, he's already well on his way to replacing Brett Favre's spot in Peter King's heart (http://www.timteblog.com/2010/01/senior-bowl-tebow-peter-king-approves.html) in the league's most influential weekly column.
But for a guy who needed a knockout week, the initial reviews are unadulterated fuel for the haters (http://twitter.com/ChaseGoodbread/status/8207456747). Handling the snap is supposed to be the easy part of the transition; if he's still struggling with the basic exchange on national television this Saturday, we won't be hearing the end of it anytime soon.
(http://del.icio.us/post?url=http%3A%2F%2Frivals.yahoo.com%2Fncaa%2Ffo otball%2Fblog%2Fdr_saturday%2Fpost%2FTim-Tebow-meets-his-worst-career-fears-in-Senior%3Furn%3Dncaaf%2C215726&title=Tim+Tebow+meets+his+worst+career+fears+in+Se nior+Bowl+debut&ts=1264532064)



****More quotes via tweeting:
Scouts Inc on Tebow Day 1: Awkward. He fumbled snaps, took false steps in his drops & had trouble setting his feet at the top of his drops.

Crowd heckling Tebow a bit for overthrows. He's a long way from the Swamp - and the comfort of the shotgun.

Indo
01-26-2010, 03:22 PM
OOPS!

I just posted this in the NCAA forum---didn't see it here. My apologies


Still funny, though.


TIMMAH!

supa_fly_steeler
01-26-2010, 04:06 PM
why do people hate him so much.

give the guy a break, what if you guys were in his place, i would hope your mental stability breaks down.

revefsreleets
01-26-2010, 04:22 PM
why do people hate him so much.

give the guy a fing break, what if you guys were in his place, i would hope your mental stability breaks down.


Who said anything about hate? There's nothing hateful about properly assessing the abilities, or lack thereof, of a particular player.

I think Sweed is a complete bust. It has NOTHING to do with like or hate, NOTHING to do with what school he attended. He simply has done nothing after two seasons. That's almost the quintessential definition of a bust, yet somehow I'm accused of all kinds of nonsense simply for pointing out the rather obvious fact. Tebow is no different...

I don't understand why the emotions have to get all mixed up in this. Tebow is NOT an NFL QB. That's all....

SteelerNation12
01-26-2010, 07:40 PM
why do people hate him so much.

give the guy a break, what if you guys were in his place, i would hope your mental stability breaks down.
Would be better off than him:noidea: I wouldn't want men rubbing and kissing me head while I cry because we lost a game.

supa_fly_steeler
01-27-2010, 03:42 AM
We haven't seen Tebow play yet, therefore he might not be a bust because he might even go in the 5th round as a backup quarterback... and do an ok job at that

im reserving my judgement until he starts stinking up the field.

lamberts-lost-tooth
01-27-2010, 04:53 AM
Tebow progresses on second day of practice
1/26/2010 8:48:14 PM


The Associated Press reports quarterback Tim Tebow showed progress on his second day of Senior Bowl practices even though he might have been "a little under the weather."

South team coach Tony Sparano of the Miami Dolphins says the former Florida star was a little more comfortable and got the ball out of his hand quicker on Tuesday. Sparano says that improvement shows how smart Tebow is and how quickly he processes information.

Senior Bowl spokesman Kevin McDermond said Tebow "might be a little under the weather," but added that he doesn't have strep throat as had been reported. Tebow hasn't missed any practice time Monday or Tuesday.
http://theredzone.org/BlogDescription.aspx?EntryId=2819

lamberts-lost-tooth
01-27-2010, 05:11 AM
Who said anything about hate? There's nothing hateful about properly assessing the abilities, or lack thereof, of a particular player.

I think Sweed is a complete bust. It has NOTHING to do with like or hate, NOTHING to do with what school he attended. He simply has done nothing after two seasons. That's almost the quintessential definition of a bust, yet somehow I'm accused of all kinds of nonsense simply for pointing out the rather obvious fact. Tebow is no different...

I don't understand why the emotions have to get all mixed up in this. Tebow is NOT an NFL QB. That's all....

If I was a betting man....I would say that emotions HAVE become a part of this. You tend to lean against anything religious...and I would hazard a quess that the uber-religious Tebow rubs you the wrong way.

Just an observation.

revefsreleets
01-27-2010, 08:01 AM
If I was a betting man....I would say that emotions HAVE become a part of this. You tend to lean against anything religious...and I would hazard a quess that the uber-religious Tebow rubs you the wrong way.

Just an observation.

Wow...talk about a reach. Let me repeat and add a caveat.

This has nothing to do with hate. Nor with the school he attends. Or religion.

I said the same thing about Graham Harrell last year. The same thing about Colt Brennan a few years back. I don't believe I have anything against UH or TT, or those individuals...the only commonality is that they were successful college QB's who lack what it takes to play the position on Sundays. That's a cold, emotionless fact....

RoethlisBURGHer
01-27-2010, 08:47 AM
Can Tebow become a good pro-style quarterback? Yes, it's a possibility. He's a hard worker and he's coachable, so it's possible for him to fix his flaws and become a good, solid pro-style QB.

There is also the chance since he has NEVER taken a snap from under center (not once in high school or at Florida did Tebow ever take a snap out of anything other than the shotgun), and that his coaches never saw a need to fix his bad mechanics, that he may never become a decent pro-style QB.

I for one have never thought of Tebow as a great quarterback. A great leader? Yes. A great football player? Yes. But as for a gifted quarterback I always kind of looked at him like a white Micheal Vick, only Micheal Vick had great arm strength.

Tebow ran a lot at Florida. He can't do that in the NFL and be successful. Running at times (Roethlisberger, McNabb, late career Steve Young) is fine. But being known more for your running skills than your passing skills (Vick, Vince Young) isn't going to get you picked in the first round, and most times not in the second round either. I know Vick and Vince Young were first round picks, but neither of them have been looked upon as being a success and therefore I don't see NFL teams taking a player with those skill sets and spending a first rounder on them. A quarterback's job #1 in the NFL is to THROW THE FOOTBALL.

Often when I would watch a Florida football game, Tebow would show horrible mechanics in his throwing motion. In his wind up, he drops the ball to his knees like Byron Leftwich, and Lefty had never been really considered a successful NFL QB and is now thought of nothing but a backup QB. Tebow also throws a very fluttery ball, almost a "wounded duck". That's large part due to his throwing mechanics. If he doesn't fix this, he won't be a QB in the NFL, at least not a high round starting QB.

So like I said, he could work very hard to fix his flaws and become a very good, solid pro-style QB. He said he can, and when he puts his mind to something, there's no doubt that he's going to do his best to get it done. He has all the intangibles to be a very good QB in the NFL. Hard worker, excellent leader.

But he will need to work harder than possibly ever to fix his flaws enough to warrant a first (or even second) round selection as a quarterback. He has the Senior Bowl practices and game, the NFL Combine, his Pro Day.

The only team I can see possibly taking him in the first or second round as a quarterback if he doesn't show vast improvement in his flaws is the Jacksonville Jaguars. To keep the franchise in Jacksonville they need to sell that stadium out on a weekly basis and Tebow has quite a following in Florida where he has played his entire football career. But this would be the worst case scenario for Tebow because Jacksonville/Tebow fans would want him in the field ASAP, so the first bad game from Garrard would warrant Tebow chants from that day forward, if not from the first day of training camp forward.

revefsreleets
01-27-2010, 10:12 AM
The MAIN concern I have with Tebow is the mental aspects of being a QB in the NFL. You can't rely on physicality or pure athleticism to read a defense or go through progressions.

You don't have to have prototypical NFL size (look at Brees), or have phenomenal arm-strength (look at Pennington, a vastly underrated QB), but you DO have to possess the mental capabilities to play on Sunday's. That's where I think he'll fall flat...

SteelMember
01-27-2010, 10:32 AM
The MAIN concern I have with Tebow is the mental aspects of being a QB in the NFL. You can't rely on physicality or pure athleticism to read a defense or go through progressions.

You don't have to have prototypical NFL size (look at Brees), or have phenomenal arm-strength (look at Pennington, a vastly underrated QB), but you DO have to possess the mental capabilities to play on Sunday's. That's where I think he'll fall flat...

but that assumption is in direct conflict with what Sparano had to say in LLT's post...

South team coach Tony Sparano of the Miami Dolphins says the former Florida star was a little more comfortable and got the ball out of his hand quicker on Tuesday. Sparano says that improvement shows how smart Tebow is and how quickly he processes information.


I don't think his "smarts" is what will hold him back, nor his physical attributes, but his technique and skill development.

The wild cat would love him, but that has proved to not be an every down scheme in the NFL.

lamberts-lost-tooth
01-27-2010, 10:42 AM
I don't think his "smarts" is what will hold him back, nor his physical attributes, but his technique and skill development.

The wild cat would love him, but that has proved to not be an every down scheme in the NFL.

Agreed...I am going to keep an eye on his mechanics. He seems to me to have almost the same wind-up of Matt Lienhart, which I never liked.

I am still thinking that he is drafted in the 2nd or 3rd round.

Nadroj 20
01-27-2010, 12:03 PM
We haven't seen Tebow play yet, therefore he might not be a bust because he might even go in the 5th round as a backup quarterback... and do an ok job at that

im reserving my judgement until he starts stinking up the field.

Thats fine your allowed to reserve judgement until he actually plays the position in the NFL, however based on stuff you already know its not wrong of any of us to take a guess at how good he will be.

Based on poor accuracy the fact he took every snap from the gun in college AND his extremely long throwing motion my first guess is he wont be very successful at the NFL level.

Hes a smart guy and i think has some ability to correct some of those problems and if he does great, i dont have a problem with Tebow.

zulater
01-28-2010, 08:34 AM
The MAIN concern I have with Tebow is the mental aspects of being a QB in the NFL. You can't rely on physicality or pure athleticism to read a defense or go through progressions.

You don't have to have prototypical NFL size (look at Brees), or have phenomenal arm-strength (look at Pennington, a vastly underrated QB), but you DO have to possess the mental capabilities to play on Sunday's. That's where I think he'll fall flat...

http://blogs.tampabay.com/gators/2009/11/tim-tebow-wins-second-espn-the-magazine-academic-all-american-of-theyear.html

Tim Tebow wins second ESPN The Magazine Academic All-American of theYear
Florida quarterback Tim Tebow has won the ESPN The Magazine Academic All-America of the Year award, becoming the first student-athlete to earn the honor two consecutive years in the University Division.

Tebow is the first Florida athlete in any sport to earn first-team Academic All-America honors three-consecutive years and the first football player from the SEC to be chosen to the first team three-straight times. He joins Carlos Alvarez as the only three-time Academic All-Americans in football at Florida. Alvarez earned first-team recognition in 1969 and second-team accolades in 1970 and 1971.


Tebow is majoring in Family, Youth and Community Sciences and has a 3.66 grade point average.

What a crock. You're so full of it it's laughable. :rofl:

I'm not saying he will or wont make it as an NFL qb. My guess is that he wont, but it has nothing to do with not possessing "the mental capabilities" to play the position.

If he fails in his attempt to play qb in the NFL it will almost certainly be due to flawed mechanics in his throwing motion and his drop backs.

Unlearning virtually involuntary muscle memory in your mechanics while trying to figure out a game that plays out at about 1000 mph is probably too high a hurdle for almost anyone to overcome.

Indo
01-28-2010, 09:16 AM
You do realize, though, that his 3.66 GPA comes from majoring in Family, Youth, and Community Sciences. That doesn't exactly evoke the impression of a winner of the Fields Medal in Mathematics!

I don't think that Tebow is stupid by any stretch of the imagination, but he isn't particularly "football smart", either. His size has allowed him to get away with that during his college years----instead of reading defenses and allowing plays to develop based on the defense read, he just takes off running. His size has allowed him to be successful at that at the college level. But in the pros...the game is a lot faster and everyone is big.

My reason for not liking Tebow is that he is selfish and a poor sportsman. I have seen him on more than one occasion mouthing-off to and flipping-the-bird to opposing teams fans in the stands. That's not exactly classy sportsmanship---especially for someone who apparently wants to be a pro QB (incidentally, it's also one of the reasons I don't like Rivers). For all of Tebow's Bible-bashing (no offense intended to those of you who study the Bible regularly...) he certainly doesn't walk the walk of a humble Christian---as the Bible says we should.
Next (with regard to his selfishness)---have you ever noticed that any time the Gators ran an option outside the Red zoneTebow always pitched it to the back; but if they were inside the Red zone he always kept it to score the TD himself? Very selfish player...


EDIT:
I also agree with the difficulty in overcoming his flawed mechanics---too high of a hurdle to overcome. But I have a feeling he would make a good TE...

X-Terminator
01-28-2010, 09:22 AM
http://blogs.tampabay.com/gators/2009/11/tim-tebow-wins-second-espn-the-magazine-academic-all-american-of-theyear.html

Tim Tebow wins second ESPN The Magazine Academic All-American of theYear
Florida quarterback Tim Tebow has won the ESPN The Magazine Academic All-America of the Year award, becoming the first student-athlete to earn the honor two consecutive years in the University Division.

Tebow is the first Florida athlete in any sport to earn first-team Academic All-America honors three-consecutive years and the first football player from the SEC to be chosen to the first team three-straight times. He joins Carlos Alvarez as the only three-time Academic All-Americans in football at Florida. Alvarez earned first-team recognition in 1969 and second-team accolades in 1970 and 1971.


Tebow is majoring in Family, Youth and Community Sciences and has a 3.66 grade point average.

What a crock. You're so full of it it's laughable. :rofl:

I'm not saying he will or wont make it as an NFL qb. My guess is that he wont, but it has nothing to do with not possessing "the mental capabilities" to play the position.

If he fails in his attempt to play qb in the NFL it will almost certainly be due to flawed mechanics in his throwing motion and his drop backs.

Unlearning virtually involuntary muscle memory in your mechanics while trying to figure out a game that plays out at about 1000 mph is probably too high a hurdle for almost anyone to overcome.

Being smart in the classroom doesn't mean you will be "smart" when it comes to reading defenses and making quick judgments, 2 things you need to do at least reasonably well to make it as an NFL QB. If he is deficient at either or both, he will flame out big time, bad mechanics aside.

zulater
01-28-2010, 09:45 AM
You do realize, though, that his 3.66 GPA comes from majoring in Family, Youth, and Community Sciences. That doesn't exactly evoke the impression of a winner of the Fields Medal in Mathematics!

I don't think that Tebow is stupid by any stretch of the imagination, but he isn't particularly "football smart", either. His size has allowed him to get away with that during his college years----instead of reading defenses and allowing plays to develop based on the defense read, he just takes off running. His size has allowed him to be successful at that at the college level. But in the pros...the game is a lot faster and everyone is big.

My reason for not liking Tebow is that he is selfish and a poor sportsman. I have seen him on more than one occasion mouthing-off to and flipping-the-bird to opposing teams fans in the stands. That's not exactly classy sportsmanship---especially for someone who apparently wants to be a pro QB (incidentally, it's also one of the reasons I don't like Rivers). For all of Tebow's Bible-bashing (no offense intended to those of you who study the Bible regularly...) he certainly doesn't walk the walk of a humble Christian---as the Bible says we should.
Next (with regard to his selfishness)---have you ever noticed that any time the Gators ran an option outside the Red zoneTebow always pitched it to the back; but if they were inside the Red zone he always kept it to score the TD himself? Very selfish player...


EDIT:
I also agree with the difficulty in overcoming his flawed mechanics---too high of a hurdle to overcome. But I have a feeling he would make a good TE...


"Football smart", and natural NFL ability usually go hand in hand in my opinion. Dan Marino had a terrible wonderlic score but supposedly read defenses with the best of them. The reason I say supposed is because Marino's natural ability in certain areas was so great that he literally had a second and half advantage in making his reads over a normal NFL qb.

Now don't get me wrong, I think Dan probably just had a bad day when he took the wonderlic. He wasn't and isn't a dummy. But at the same token i don't think he was ever one of the games great thinkers either. The Patriots used to roll out some sort of double zone that Dan still hasn't figured out to this day. :flap:

Anyway Marino probably had as close to a perfect release and throwing mechanics as anyone who ever played the game. No one taught him that, he was as fluid and sound fundamentally in his hs days at Central Catholic as he was at the peak of his NFL career.

Conversly Tebow's technique was always flawed and probably always will be. If he could have been corrected in an expediant manner I think Urban Meyer and the Gators coaching staff would have done so by now. It would be a major feather into their cap if he succeeded at the next level. So if they could have tore him down and remade him in a more acceptable NFL way without sacrificing the Gators season they almost certainly would have.

Don't be surprised if next year the Gators run more plays from a pro style set with a genuine NFL qb prospect running the plays.

lamberts-lost-tooth
01-28-2010, 10:19 AM
Dan Marino had a terrible wonderlic score but supposedly read defenses with the best of them.

Dan Marino had the same Wonderlic as Terry Bradshaw.:noidea:

zulater
01-28-2010, 10:27 AM
Dan Marino had the same Wonderlic as Terry Bradshaw.:noidea:

I don't think they were using the wonderlic when Terry came into the league? Are you sure he ever even took that test?

revefsreleets
01-28-2010, 11:18 AM
LOL....I know complete morons who coasted all the way through post-graduate degrees with 4.0's. Knowledge and grades have little to do with each other, and grades have NOTHING to do with the ability to read a defense or play QB in the NFL.

You either have it or you don't...and some guys have a higher football IQ than others. I don't think Tebow has it...but it sure is fun to watch the apologists get offended and make excuses for him.

zulater
01-28-2010, 12:52 PM
LOL....I know complete morons who coasted all the way through post-graduate degrees with 4.0's. Knowledge and grades have little to do with each other, and grades have NOTHING to do with the ability to read a defense or play QB in the NFL.

You either have it or you don't...and some guys have a higher football IQ than others. I don't think Tebow has it...but it sure is fun to watch the apologists get offended and make excuses for him.

And my contention remains that if Tebow had a naturally quicker release and more refined mechanics that the game would speed up for him to the point that the ancillary things like reading defenses and hitting receivers out of breaks would fall into place for him.

Tebow could have all the football smarts in the world. Some day he might be the next great coach in the game for all any of us know?. But if he doesn't have the physical ability to execute as an NFL quarerback all that knowledge will get him nowhere, because he just wont have the capacity to get the ball where it needs to be in a timely enough fashion. The way he carries the ball in the pocket, the trajectory he delivers it with etc... just aren't made for the NFL game.

It's not a question of .IQ football or otherwise. He's simply not refined enough for the NFL game.

So how about we make it about what it is rather than about what it's not?
:coffee:

Venom
01-28-2010, 01:30 PM
Tebow , late second rounder or early third rounder :wave:

revefsreleets
01-28-2010, 01:43 PM
Tebow , late second rounder or early third rounder :wave:

Even if I could watch the Senior Bowl (which I can't because TWC STILL won't carry the NFL Network), I would put little stock in anything Tebow (or any of the other QB's, for that matter) manages to accomplish. He's not going to be looking at anything all that complicated or complex from the defenses this week, simply because they only have a week to insert a defense. I think for the QB's, the week of practice is the important thing.

I concur about him going late in the first day...you've got a system QB with poor mechanics, poor footwork, and who has trouble understanding defenses and locks on WR's.

zulater
01-29-2010, 06:33 AM
You do realize, though, that his 3.66 GPA comes from majoring in Family, Youth, and Community Sciences. That doesn't exactly evoke the impression of a winner of the Fields Medal in Mathematics!

I don't think that Tebow is stupid by any stretch of the imagination, but he isn't particularly "football smart", either. His size has allowed him to get away with that during his college years----instead of reading defenses and allowing plays to develop based on the defense read, he just takes off running.

I understand what you're saying, but was that Tebow or the offensive design?


His size has allowed him to be successful at that at the college level. But in the pros...the game is a lot faster and everyone is big.

It will be interesting to see how the qb's that follow Tebow will fare as NFL prospects if at all? Some successfull teams just are designed in the way that they would never progress a qb's game to the next level. I think the smartest move Troy Aikman ever made was transfering out of Oklahama to UCLA. It certainly didn't help him win games in college, but he never would have been a viable qb candidate in NFL scouts minds if had stayed. imo

My reason for not liking Tebow is that he is selfish and a poor sportsman. I have seen him on more than one occasion mouthing-off to and flipping-the-bird to opposing teams fans in the stands. That's not exactly classy sportsmanship---especially for someone who apparently wants to be a pro QB (incidentally, it's also one of the reasons I don't like Rivers). For all of Tebow's Bible-bashing (no offense intended to those of you who study the Bible regularly...) he certainly doesn't walk the walk of a humble Christian---as the Bible says we should.

I think it's just the competiior in him coming out? :noidea: I'm not big on those sort of displays either, but everything this guy's ever done, good or bad, has been magnified because he's had the spotlight on him virtually from day one. There's probably been worse offenses by others that we just don't know about because they don't draw the attention of the media the way Tebow does.


Next (with regard to his selfishness)---have you ever noticed that any time the Gators ran an option outside the Red zoneTebow always pitched it to the back; but if they were inside the Red zone he always kept it to score the TD himself? Very selfish player...

Also a very successfull player. Again what he was being told by the coaching staff leading up to the game we can only guess? Maybe that the way Urban Meyer wanted it? He didn't seem to mind it regardless. And Meyer certainly comes off as genuine in his respect for Tebow both as an athlete and a person. If he was a selfish player, a guy who didn't elevate others around him, I really don't think his coach would be as enthusiastic of a supporter.


EDIT:
I also agree with the difficulty in overcoming his flawed mechanics---too high of a hurdle to overcome. But I have a feeling he would make a good TE...

Bottom line I think Tebow was the perfect qb for the Gators, but i don't think his game translates to the next level. He was one of the best ever college qb's, but that's probably as far as it will ever go.

stlrtruck
01-29-2010, 08:33 AM
I believe you'll see Tim Tebow under center in the NFL.

He's got the untangibles it takes to be a good leader, and a good QB, he'll definitely need some coaching but he's better than a few other QBs already starting in the league (imo).

I'm sure every player that has gone to the senior bowl has been perfect according to the scouts. I think that Tebow has been one of the most watched players the last 3 years and because of that he is under the microscope longer than his peers!

lamberts-lost-tooth
01-30-2010, 03:53 AM
I don't think they were using the wonderlic when Terry came into the league? Are you sure he ever even took that test?

Here is a site showing his score....along with most QB scores.

http://www.unc.edu/~mirabile/Wonderlic.htm

zulater
01-30-2010, 08:00 AM
Here is a site showing his score....along with most QB scores.

http://www.unc.edu/~mirabile/Wonderlic.htm



After looking through that list I'd say the wonderlic is a fairly worthless tool in evaluating future NFL quarterbacking potential. :chuckle:

Again I think "game intelligence" is greatly influenced by physical skills. For example a qb with great athleticism would have always been encouraged to run as soon as the play broke down in his formative years because generally speaking someone with superior athletic ability can beat defenses virtually alone right up until the NFL level.

Old habits die hard, therefore many of these players while equally skilled as throwers never learn how to adapt their game to the NFL level. the instinct of pulling the ball down and running is just too great to overcome.

Then of course with Tebow we have the added factor of poor throwing fundamentals. His athletic skills were great enough to overcome the best the college game had to offer, therefore the coaches never bothered to greatly change his game. But unfortunatley for Tim by letting him play the game the way he has for so long it's highly unlikely that he can adapt not only his mindset, which tells him to pull the ball down and run too soon, but also his throwing mechanics. Add in that he has no clue about how to take a 3, 5 or 7 step drop, and you might as well be asking him to throw the ball with his other hand and call signals in Chinese.

In other words he has very little chance to make it as an NFL qb imho. But it has nothing to do with his football intellect, as certain poster's have suggested. Again imo.

lamberts-lost-tooth
01-30-2010, 08:08 AM
After looking through that list I'd say the wonderlic is a fairly worthless tool in evaluating future NFL quarterbacking potential. :chuckle:

.

I never commented on whether it was a good evaluation tool....simply a reply to your saying that you believed the wonderlic wasnt given at at that time period.

The value of the Wonderlic in QB evaluation is a different subject altogether. In fact it for used for all positions in the NFL and in a variety of professions outside of the NFL

zulater
01-30-2010, 08:58 AM
I never commented on whether it was a good evaluation tool....simply a reply to your saying that you believed the wonderlic wasnt given at at that time period.

I never indicated otherwise. I appreciate the infomation you shared. I was just going foward in what i thought was a logical progression of the conversation. :noidea: I wasn't laying down some sort of gauntlet, sorry you took it that way. . :hatsoff:

The value of the Wonderlic in QB evaluation is a different subject altogether. In fact it for used for all positions in the NFL and in a variety of professions outside of the NFL

I'm not saying it has no value, but when I see guys like Marino, Bradshaw, and McNair near the bottom of the list and I see guys like Alex smith at the top, then I'm not letting it be my be-all end- all in evaluating young qb's coming into the league.

lionslicer
01-31-2010, 06:40 PM
If Tim Tebow is drafted, he wont start as a QB for any team, but he could be the most dangerous Wild Cat player in the NFL. Because he is fast, strong and he is a good passer, unlike running backs who throw interceptions on those running back pass plays in Miami... lol

If he gets drafted by Miami, he could put up 10+ touchdowns. I wouldn't be surprised to see the Raiders draft him and ruin the quality player he is. This is the type of player that would thrive in the old NFL, when quarterbacks did more Bootlegs, and had a lot more to do in the running game. But for him to thrive in the NFL, he can't be a FB or H-back, he needs to be a guy that gets handoffs, and you don't know whether he's gonna pass it 60 yards down the field, or run over people to get a first down.

El-Gonzo Jackson
02-01-2010, 10:34 AM
I'm not saying it has no value, but when I see guys like Marino, Bradshaw, and McNair near the bottom of the list and I see guys like Alex smith at the top, then I'm not letting it be my be-all end- all in evaluating young qb's coming into the league.

Like previously said....its just an evaluation tool.

Lots of good QB's that are intelligent. Lots of great athletes that are idiots. But, in an era where 1st round QB's get $40million plus of guaranteed money, I would want to know if a guy can read the playbook or got the Dexter manley degree.

Any kid that went to class in college should be able to get 20 on it at least and make it a non issue on his resume.

As for Tebow, I dont see that he is that fast, or quick....but rather powerful. Somebody is gonna take him in the 2nd or 3rd probably, but they would have a specific plan for him(wildcat or selling tickets in JAX). I honestly think Dennis Dixon is a better NFL QB prospect than Tebow.

revefsreleets
02-01-2010, 11:09 AM
From what I was able to view, Dan Lefevour was, is and will be >>>>>>>>>>>>>Tim Tebow. He looked like the 3rd QB out there, which is exactly what his week in practice denoted.

I hope the Browns draft him #1 as a QB.

SteelerNation12
02-01-2010, 01:13 PM
Tebow looked horrible under center. Not to mention inaccurate. I always thought the Florida WRs made him look more accurate then he actually is. His throwing motion is slow and the release point is jacked.

zulater
02-01-2010, 01:23 PM
I'd be surprised if Tebow gets picked before the 4th round, and I'm not even sure it's a given he's drafted at all. I know everyone says he'd make a good H-back or tight end, but how do we really know? Can he block or play special teams?:noidea:


I sure as hell hope he doesn't go to the draft in New York. I'd hate to see the guy humiliated.

Nadroj 20
02-01-2010, 01:28 PM
I'd be surprised if Tebow gets picked before the 4th round, and I'm not even sure it's a given he's drafted at all. I know everyone says he'd make a good H-back or tight end, but how do we really know? Can he block or play special teams?:noidea:


I sure as hell hope he doesn't go to the draft in New York. I'd hate to see the guy humiliated.
Really? youd be surprised? I wont because i think a team will see SOME potential and will want to get him before the 4th round, i havent been seeing him in action recently in the Senior Bowl and stuff and i know he has his problems but i see a team taking him before the 4th round

Not saying that should be done or anything like that, cause personally i would think your correct and he SHOULDNT be taken until then...... i just think based on the hype and that hes Tebow someone will take him before he should be taken.

El-Gonzo Jackson
02-01-2010, 01:48 PM
Was just listening to the Jim Rome show and Phil Simms commented on Tebow at the Senior Bowl.

Phil Simms said that Tebow's advisors should have skipped the Senior Bowl and worked on his footwork and taking the ball from under center, plus worked on his throwing motion and then shown his skills in a pro day workout, without competition. Simms said all this did was confirm what many thought that he could not handle making a drop from under center and throwing a quick timing pass from anywhere other than shotgun.

Simms went on to say that all the spread QB's looked awkward and non-athletic under center. He thinks that the spread offense is an easy place to hide non-athletic QB's because they" just have to stand back there like a wooden indian and throw a quick timing pass" without having to do a 3-5 or 7 step drop.

Aussie_steeler
02-02-2010, 03:05 AM
I think the Jags must be laughing all the way to the bank, For a team that was rumoured to be looking at him in the first round ( to attract the Florida Gator fan base) they must be counting the millions they could now possibly save by getting him later in the draft.

A realistic option I see for them now is to trade down far enough in the first so that they pick up an extra 2nd round pick. That way they can still get 2 quality players in the first 2 rounds and then have the luxury pick of Tebow purely to get some Gators fans to come and watch him.

I hate to propose such an option because it contains no football merit or logic. Sadly I think a business decision will be made. To justify the business decision in return you might see 4 - 5 wildcat plays everygame purely for the Tebow factor.

MasterOfPuppets
02-02-2010, 04:00 AM
Really? youd be surprised? I wont because i think a team will see SOME potential and will want to get him before the 4th round, i havent been seeing him in action recently in the Senior Bowl and stuff and i know he has his problems but i see a team taking him before the 4th round

Not saying that should be done or anything like that, cause personally i would think your correct and he SHOULDNT be taken until then...... i just think based on the hype and that hes Tebow someone will take him before he should be taken.

what exactly is this potential your talking about ? strong arm ? nope...accuracy ? nope...speed ? nope ......:noidea:

stlrtruck
02-02-2010, 12:19 PM
what exactly is this potential your talking about ? strong arm ? nope...accuracy ? nope...speed ? nope ......:noidea:

I believe the kid can be trained to be an above average QB in the NFL. The one thing he possess that at least half the QBs in the league don't - leadership and determination! I think with those two qualities alone will help him in tearing down his techniques and building up a better body of works.

He has a pretty decent arm.
He's definitely not the most accurate, but a good QB coach can help him
Speed - definitely not
Physical strength - a good asset for a QB who is going to play for one of the bottom half teams.

MasterOfPuppets
02-02-2010, 12:37 PM
I believe the kid can be trained to be an above average QB in the NFL. The one thing he possess that at least half the QBs in the league don't - leadership and determination! I think with those two qualities alone will help him in tearing down his techniques and building up a better body of works.

He has a pretty decent arm.
He's definitely not the most accurate, but a good QB coach can help him
Speed - definitely not
Physical strength - a good asset for a QB who is going to play for one of the bottom half teams. and qb's that need completely overhauled usually go in late rds or undrafted... they're called pratice squad fodder :noidea:

stlrtruck
02-02-2010, 03:18 PM
and qb's that need completely overhauled usually go in late rds or undrafted... they're called pratice squad fodder :noidea:

Even as a QB, I give Tebow a better position than practice squad fodder. I mean hell even Ryan Leaf had his moment. Then again, that may be the reason Tebow doesn't get his.


I've been wrong before so if I'm wrong here, it's just one more notch in the belt! :chuckle: :drink:

MV3_Qdog
02-02-2010, 07:45 PM
A Team that really seems to be interested in Tebow is Jackson Ville with the 10th pick. They are definitely not going to take tebow with that pick and the owner of the Jags lost a TON of money last year. They may look to trade down to a pick like the 18th and maybe we can move up and Take a great player like Joe Haden or Cj spiller. The Fans at the senior bowl chanted we wont Tebow and the Jags need another Q and this would be a great choice money Wise also. The only way to see if it works is to do. i think this would be a great move for us to do.

revefsreleets
02-03-2010, 11:16 AM
Tebow will most likely be there in the 2nd round when Jax swings around again. They will RUE the day that they sign Tebow in Rd. 1.

Nadroj 20
02-03-2010, 01:02 PM
what exactly is this potential your talking about ? strong arm ? nope...accuracy ? nope...speed ? nope ......:noidea:

Being a successful QB at a major college program....hes smart and willing to learn and has the physical attributes to give him POTENTIAL to be a good player.

ayyfour
02-04-2010, 07:23 AM
I really believe the Browns will take Tebow, along with trading away either Quinn or Anderson (maybe both). They really need leadership as a team and this guy can give it. Still would like to see another Tim Couch situation though...

MasterOfPuppets
02-04-2010, 10:19 AM
Being a successful QB at a major college program....hes smart and willing to learn and has the physical attributes to give him POTENTIAL to be a good player.
is the ncaa history not littered with great qb's who didn't cut it in the nfl ?

revefsreleets
02-04-2010, 10:41 AM
I really believe the Browns will take Tebow, along with trading away either Quinn or Anderson (maybe both). They really need leadership as a team and this guy can give it. Still would like to see another Tim Couch situation though...

I'd LOVE to see Cleveland waste their first pick on this guy. Couch is >>>> QB over Tebow, and he failed miserably. It would be the ultimate worst case scenario for all involved. A kid who lacks the skillset to play the position on Sundays in a poorly run organization that has a long track record of ruining talented QB's.

But it won't happen. Holmgren knows Tebow is 3rd Rd material at best...

xfl2001fan
02-04-2010, 11:30 AM
i doubt Cleveland looks at him before the 3rd round.

Indo
02-04-2010, 12:49 PM
I agree with pretty much everything said in this thread

But we're just fans

Perhaps the players should let their organizations do the talking:





Thu Feb 04, 2010 10:46 am EST

Tebow-to-Jags talk isn't sitting well with at least one actual Jag
By Holly Anderson

Remember those rumors, way back in the fall, about the Jacksonville Jaguars setting their sights on hometown hero Tim Tebow before he'd even played his senior season? That owner Wayne Weaver was said to be considering plucking the Tebow Child early in the draft as a sales-boosting gambit? Lately, the scorn of the scouts and his obvious struggles in the Senior Bowl haven't tempered local enthusiasm for Tebow as the draft draws nigh, but at least one member of the franchise isn't afraid to express his, let's say ... misgivings about adding Tebow to the roster, according to the Florida Times-Union:

[Offensive lineman Uche] Nwaneri posted on the Jaguars’ Web site that, while cashing a check, a bank teller started talking about how Tebow will save the Jaguars.

So Nwaneri posted his five points on Tebow, with capital letters:

"1. He can't throw, PERIOD.

2. He can't read any coverage other than probably cover 2 or man.

3. The QB Wildcat WILL NOT WORK IN THIS LEAGUE. PERIOD.

4. He doesn’t know how to take a snap from center.

5. HE CAN’T THROW, and that’s really something you either have or not."

I guess that settles it, then. Obviously, there's nothing the kid can do to help the team. Oh, and one more thing:

Nwaneri then urged fans to buy tickets because he doesn’t want to come out "for pregame warmups to a COMPLETELY EMPTY STADIUM ANYMORE."

Let's talk business, Uche: Whether or not the Tebow Child can make a successful transition to the pro game on the field, putting warm bodies in seats is obviously among the greatest of his many other talents. Give the people what they want. And even if Nwaneri and the legions of critics are right that Tebow is bound for NFL flopdom, I guarantee thousands of Georgia fans would be willing to make the drive down to the site of so many ****tail Party aggravations for the sole purpose of watching their former tormenter operate behind a line that might not feel much like blocking for him.

- - -

http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/football/blog/dr_saturday/post/Tebow-to-Jags-talk-isn-t-sitting-well-with-at-le?urn=ncaaf,217616

revefsreleets
02-04-2010, 12:50 PM
I lol'd.

lamberts-lost-tooth
02-05-2010, 08:42 AM
Regardless of what Nwaneri thinks....Jacksonville will take Tebow in the 3rd if he is still available.

revefsreleets
02-05-2010, 02:47 PM
Regardless of what Nwaneri thinks....Jacksonville will take Tebow in the 3rd if he is still available.

The more i think about it, the more I wonder.

We already know he's not accurate. We already know he's a college system QB. We already know he has the deck stacked against him as an NFL QB.

But that's just us rational and sane people.

I could EASILY see some head games going on amongst some of the crazier and more desperate teams. The Raiders keep popping up on my radar when i think about Tebow. I'd say they are a candidate to draft him at LITERALLY any round or position, even their #1 overall. Due to Crazy Al's insanity, it makes other teams who are enamored with this kids pedigree and winning ways in college (sorry, BLINDED by those things) maybe do something stupid simply because they covet him and don't want another team to have him.

That makes him a 5th round QB prospect (read: project) who COULD get drafted as high as #8 overall.

And I'm completely serious. NOBODY was even LOOKING at Heyward-Bey in the first round, and he was CERTAINLY going to be there in round 2 when the Raiders picked, and just about everyone in the galaxy knew that EXCEPT Al Davis. He's the wild card.

SMR
02-05-2010, 10:27 PM
They should give Tebow another shot. I believe in second chances.

zulater
02-05-2010, 10:59 PM
They should give Tebow another shot. I believe in second chances.

He still has his pro day and the combine to work things out if he can.

SMR
02-05-2010, 11:03 PM
He still has his pro day and the combine to work things out if he can.

I wish the best of luck to him. I honestly think he will make it.

Nadroj 20
02-06-2010, 09:54 PM
is the ncaa history not littered with great qb's who didn't cut it in the nfl ?

Correct im not talking about what the guys or Tebow did/will do im talking potential

It means COULD become something, most those guys had potential too and didnt live up to it...

revefsreleets
02-07-2010, 10:29 PM
Tim Tebow made the Super Bowl today...in a ultra-right anti-abortion commercial.

That's the first and last time this guy is mentioned during a Super Bowl. If he insists on playing QB, he'll be a career back-up if he's LUCKY! He'll fizzle and fade ala Akili Smith if he's forced to play the positition right out of the gate.

El-Gonzo Jackson
02-08-2010, 10:22 AM
I think he reminds me of former Heisman winner Jason White, only with running ability. White was never drafted and Tebow probably can go anywhere from round 3-7, but again.......the guy has less NFL game than Dennis Dixon does.

Honestly, Zac Robinson and Tony Pike looked more like NFL prospects in the Senior Bowl than Tebow and I think those guys are 4th round or later prospects.

Havik
03-20-2010, 03:53 AM
Tebow is the most overrated college player of all time. I think he would be a good pick in round 5 or 6 as a backup QB, but that's about it. Florida QB's always fail in the NFL.

Psyychoward86
03-20-2010, 11:25 AM
Tebow is the most overrated college player of all time.

:doh:

u mean most overrated prospect for the NFL? Even then, i wouldnt doubt the kid, he has the intangibles to do something in this league.

steelersfanman92
03-20-2010, 11:47 AM
:doh:

u mean most overrated prospect for the NFL? Even then, i wouldnt doubt the kid, he has the intangibles to do something in this league.

Finally, someone that I agree with about Tebow. He was a winner in college and people are not even giving him the benefit of the doubt in regards to his NFL career. I am not saying that he will be rookie of the year or anything like that, but he has shown that he has the intangibles and is very coachable, just look at how he quickly changed his throwing motion.

Dino 6 Rings
03-24-2010, 04:51 PM
I'm Starting it...

The Official Draft Teebow POST!!!!

MasterOfPuppets
03-25-2010, 08:36 PM
:toofunny:
‘SHUT THE F–K UP,’ TIM TEBOW

A fun story (fun for us, anyway) has finally made its way out of the NFL combine, one involving Tim Tebow and the Wonderlic, that timed test that all NFL prospects are asked to take at the combine. Tebow took the test, as everyone else did, with a small group of other prospects that didn’t really know each other.

Per a league source, after the person administering the test to Tebow’s group had finished, Tebow made a request that the players bow their heads in prayer before taking the 50-question exam.

Said one of the other players in response: “Shut the f–k up.” Others players in the room then laughed. –PFT.

Come on, guys. Tebow was just trying to make sure that you got into heaven! That leadership! Of course, his leadership was trumped by the STFU guy, who basically won over the room with a single phrase. Just wait until the 2012 season, where Goodell will give Tebow a distinct advantage by mandating that all game balls be constructed from Filipino foreskin. No, I can’t write a Tebow post without bringing that up. Thanks for asking, though. Thanks, Leo, for the heads-up.
http://www.yardbarker.com/college_football/article_external/SHUT_THE_FK_UP_TIM_TEBOW/2306656