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SteelerEmpire
01-26-2010, 06:54 PM
Article:

The Israeli military is preparing itself to launch a massive aerial assault on Iran's nuclear facilities within days of being given the go-ahead.

Among the steps taken to ready Israeli forces for what would be a risky raid requiring pinpoint aerial strikes are the acquisition of three Airborne Warning and Control (AWAC) aircraft and regional missions to simulate the attack.

Two nationwide civil defence drills will help to prepare the public for the retaliation that Israel could face.

“Israel wants to know that if its forces were given the green light they could strike at Iran in a matter of days, even hours. They are making preparations on every level for this eventuality. The message to Iran is that the threat is not just words,” one senior defence official told The Times.


Officials believe that Israel could be required to hit more than a dozen targets, including moving convoys. The sites include Natanz, where thousands of centrifuges produce enriched uranium; Esfahan, where 250 tonnes of gas is stored in tunnels; and Arak, where a heavy water reactor produces plutonium.

The distance from Israel to at least one of the sites is more than 870 miles, a distance that the Israeli force practised covering in a training exercise last year that involved F15 and F16 jets, helicopters and refuelling tankers.

The possible Israeli strike on Iran has drawn comparisons to its attack on the Osirak nuclear facility near Baghdad in 1981. That strike, which destroyed the facility in under 100 seconds, was completed without Israeli losses and checked Iraqi ambitions for a nuclear weapons programme.

“We would not make the threat [against Iran] without the force to back it. There has been a recent move, a number of on-the-ground preparations, that indicate Israel's willingness to act,” said another official from Israel's intelligence community.

He added that it was unlikely that Israel would carry out the attack without receiving at least tacit approval from America, which has struck a more reconciliatory tone in dealing with Iran under its new administration.

An Israeli attack on Iran would entail flying over Jordanian and Iraqi airspace, where US forces have a strong presence.

Ephraim Kam, the deputy director of the Institute for National Security Studies, said it was unlikely that the Americans would approve an attack.

“The American defence establishment is unsure that the operation will be successful. And the results of the operation would only delay Iran's programme by two to four years,” he said.

“Many of the leaks or statements made by Israeli leaders and military commanders are meant for deterrence. The message is that if [the international community] is unable to solve the problem they need to take into account that we will solve it our way,” Mr Kam said.

Among recent preparations by the airforce was the Israeli attack of a weapons convoy in Sudan bound for militants in the Gaza Strip.

“Sudan was practice for the Israeli forces on a long-range attack,” Ronen Bergman, the author of The Secret War with Iran, said. “They wanted to see how they handled the transfer of information, hitting a moving target ... In that sense it was a rehearsal.”

Israel has made public its intention to hold the largest-ever nationwide drill next month.

Colonel Hilik Sofer told Haaretz, a daily Israeli newspaper, that the drill would “train for a reality in which during war missiles can fall on any part of the country without warning ... We want the citizens to understand that war can happen tomorrow morning”.

Israel will conduct an exercise with US forces to test the ability of Arrow, its US-funded missile defence system. The exercise would test whether the system could intercept missiles launched at Israel.

“Israel has made it clear that it will not tolerate the threat of a nuclear Iran. According to Israeli Intelligence they will have the bomb within two years ... Once they have a bomb it will be too late, and Israel will have no choice to strike — with or without America,” an official from the Israeli Defence Ministry said.
---------------------------------

Get ready for $7 a gallon gas.... and kiss the economic recovery good-bye...

MACH1
01-26-2010, 07:22 PM
Maybe they should follow obaaamas lead. Sit down over tea and apologize to iran for existing.


I don't blame them for wanting to launch a preemptive strike.Who wants to sit around and do nothing while waiting to get nuked off the face of the planet.

SteelerEmpire
01-26-2010, 07:27 PM
Maybe they should follow obaaamas lead. Sit down over tea and apologize to iran for existing.


I don't blame them for wanting to launch a preemptive strike.Who wants to sit around and do nothing while waiting to get nuked off the face of the planet.

I agree... me being a dual citizen of both the US and Israel it 'greatly' concerns me, we absolutely cannot allow Iran to go nuke. At the very least a nuclear arms race (similar to the one between the US and the Soviet Union) would arise in this region... the absolute worse senario that could happen to the earth...

fansince'76
01-26-2010, 07:28 PM
....and kiss the economic recovery good-bye...

I must've missed it - what recovery?

Polamalu Princess
01-26-2010, 08:12 PM
Maybe they should follow obaaamas lead. Sit down over tea and apologize to iran for existing.


I don't blame them for wanting to launch a preemptive strike.Who wants to sit around and do nothing while waiting to get nuked off the face of the planet.

You speak the truth!:thumbsup:

revefsreleets
01-27-2010, 08:46 AM
Ruh roh....Obama already hates Israel. This won't help matters.

Indo
01-27-2010, 11:58 AM
First. let me start by saying that I am not Israeli and I am not Jewish...

But it's my opinion that the tolerance of Israel and its effort to accomodate the wishes of the international community are coming to an end----

They get bombed and try to protect themselves and are repeatedly asked by the International community to back off...

They attempt, over and over, to participate in Peace Talks and Treaties and are repeatedly attacked...

They give up portions of their territory in the interest of securing Peace and are STILL attacked---repeatedly

They must endure a douchebag in Iran who claims that the Holocaust was all a lie----despite mountains of evidnce to the contrary

And they are now being criticized (again) for wanting to eliminate the threat of a Nuclear Iran

This guy has it right. Obama and the Apologists better take note.
(and I fully support him)

The speech is long...but well worth the listen...



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7SteelGal43
01-27-2010, 12:09 PM
First. let me start by saying that I am not Israeli and I am not Jewish...

But it's my opinion that the tolerance of Israel and its effort to accomodate the wishes of the international community are coming to an end----






*sigh* if only the same could be said about America.

ricardisimo
01-27-2010, 12:32 PM
Wow... I knew the propaganda machine was effective, but you're telling me that not one person in this forum can see through the US-Israeli B.S.?

Israel actually has the bomb, and has expressed an interest in using it, even stating that no one - not even the U.S. - was off-limits. The people in charge there are clearly and demonstrably sociopathic monsters. And yet it's Iran that we are to fear and loath?

Don't get me wrong, I think everyone on the planet is pretty much worthless, beginning with us. But it never fails to surprise just how consistently the world gets turned upside-down. The poorest, weakest countries in the entire world (Guatemala, Iran, Cuba, El Salvador, Nicaragua, Panama, Afghanistan, Iraq, and now Iran all over again) are somehow existential threats to the United States and its accomplices. It's nothing short of pathetic, cowardly and bullying. We should be ashamed of ourselves.

As for Israel, they made their bed - with our full support and blessing - and they should learn to lay in it. They long ago decided that the Islamists would be better "partners" than the secular pan-Arabists, and they worked feverishly to change the existing leadership on the other side. This is what they get: a bunch of raging religious homicidal lunatics, not unlike our own raging religious homicidal lunatics.

Indo
01-27-2010, 12:38 PM
Unbelievable

The man gives a 30minute speech on the desirability of peace, and Israel's efforts to participate in that peace and all you can see is "pathetic, cowardly and bullying"? and, "too bad, you made your bed"?

You really are deluded, aren't you?

Just unbelievable.


and, yes, we are to fear a Nuclear Iran.

steelreserve
01-27-2010, 01:13 PM
Well, at least we know there are still SOME countries who have enough common sense not to put up with this type of bullshit.

Borski
01-27-2010, 02:10 PM
Not to be a prick or anything, but is there a link to the original article? I just like my news to have a source and cross check it with other sources.

I did a google search but I couldn't find anything saying there was an imminent attack planned.
Edit: google did mention an older article that sounded similar but was talking about the attack (if it happened) before Christmas 2009. if that's the case then the article may be out of date.

revefsreleets
01-28-2010, 12:05 PM
Wow... I knew the propaganda machine was effective, but you're telling me that not one person in this forum can see through the US-Israeli B.S.?

Israel actually has the bomb, and has expressed an interest in using it, even stating that no one - not even the U.S. - was off-limits. The people in charge there are clearly and demonstrably sociopathic monsters. And yet it's Iran that we are to fear and loath?

Don't get me wrong, I think everyone on the planet is pretty much worthless, beginning with us. But it never fails to surprise just how consistently the world gets turned upside-down. The poorest, weakest countries in the entire world (Guatemala, Iran, Cuba, El Salvador, Nicaragua, Panama, Afghanistan, Iraq, and now Iran all over again) are somehow existential threats to the United States and its accomplices. It's nothing short of pathetic, cowardly and bullying. We should be ashamed of ourselves.

As for Israel, they made their bed - with our full support and blessing - and they should learn to lay in it. They long ago decided that the Islamists would be better "partners" than the secular pan-Arabists, and they worked feverishly to change the existing leadership on the other side. This is what they get: a bunch of raging religious homicidal lunatics, not unlike our own raging religious homicidal lunatics.

This insane rant explains an AWFUL lot...

ricardisimo
01-28-2010, 12:45 PM
This insane rant explains an AWFUL lot...

I'm glad you found it informative. I know I'm supposed to be shaking in my shoes, just like we were back in the 80s when Reagan successfully defended us from two dozen Cuban construction workers in Grenada, and from imminent attack from the Sandinistas... but somehow I'm not able to muster the proper level of terror.

There is something curiously cowardly about being the sole superpower on the planet. You would think that we were dodging nuclear missiles all day every day the way the media froths it up. Of course, there are exceptionally easy ways to ensure our future safety, like leading a global disarmament, supporting a real international justice system, handing over policing duties to the U.N. (as we've already agreed to do, by the way)... but then we'd be safe and sleep well at night, and we simply can't have that.

ricardisimo
01-28-2010, 12:46 PM
Not to be a prick or anything, but is there a link to the original article? I just like my news to have a source and cross check it with other sources.

I did a google search but I couldn't find anything saying there was an imminent attack planned.
Edit: google did mention an older article that sounded similar but was talking about the attack (if it happened) before Christmas 2009. if that's the case then the article may be out of date.

No, you do not need proof. You are to feel extreme fear right now and support whatever draconian measures the powers-that-be decide upon. Death to them all!

Indo
01-28-2010, 12:53 PM
I'm glad you found it informative. I know I'm supposed to be shaking in my shoes, just like we were back in the 80s when Reagan successfully defended us from two dozen Cuban construction workers in Grenada, and from imminent attack from the Sandinistas... but somehow I'm not able to muster the proper level of terror.

There is something curiously cowardly about being the sole superpower on the planet. You would think that we were dodging nuclear missiles all day every day the way the media froths it up. Of course, there are exceptionally easy ways to ensure our future safety, like leading a global disarmament, supporting a real international justice system, handing over policing duties to the U.N. (as we've already agreed to do, by the way)... but then we'd be safe and sleep well at night, and we simply can't have that.

Wow. Simple as that, huh?

Amazing that no one has thought of any of those things yet...

You didn't even listen to/watch the speech, did you?

The UN is a useless waste of space and a poor excuse for any type of an effective governing/policing assemblage

SCSTILLER
01-28-2010, 12:59 PM
I'm glad you found it informative. I know I'm supposed to be shaking in my shoes, just like we were back in the 80s when Reagan successfully defended us from two dozen Cuban construction workers in Grenada, and from imminent attack from the Sandinistas... but somehow I'm not able to muster the proper level of terror.

There is something curiously cowardly about being the sole superpower on the planet. You would think that we were dodging nuclear missiles all day every day the way the media froths it up. Of course, there are exceptionally easy ways to ensure our future safety, like leading a global disarmament, supporting a real international justice system, handing over policing duties to the U.N. (as we've already agreed to do, by the way)... but then we'd be safe and sleep well at night, and we simply can't have that.


Yep, you are living in Lalaland. You truly beleive that if we disarm that the Iranians will drop what they are doing, the Israeli's will follow, then the Russians, Pakistanis, Indians, French, English, and Chinese will just all give up their weapons because we did. I highly doubt it.

Also, the policing duties of the U.N. What, so they can find something wrong and put sanctions on the country and not back up those sanctions? Yeah, how many times did Saddam balk at the U.N., torment them, break all their rules, and laugh in the face of the U.N.? Oh, it was alot. What is the U.N. doing about North Korea restarting their nuclear program? Not a thing. The U.N. is a joke of an organization that only serves one thing, itself and making money.

Indo
01-28-2010, 01:22 PM
Yep, you are living in Lalaland. You truly beleive that if we disarm that the Iranians will drop what they are doing, the Israeli's will follow, then the Russians, Pakistanis, Indians, French, English, and Chinese will just all give up their weapons because we did. I highly doubt it.

Also, the policing duties of the U.N. What, so they can find something wrong and put sanctions on the country and not back up those sanctions? Yeah, how many times did Saddam balk at the U.N., torment them, break all their rules, and laugh in the face of the U.N.? Oh, it was alot. What is the U.N. doing about North Korea restarting their nuclear program? Not a thing. The U.N. is a joke of an organization that only serves one thing, itself and making money.

And if he watched the video I posted of the Israeli Prime Minister addressing the UN he would also have heard how it shirked its duties to Israel as well

Fire Haley
01-28-2010, 01:42 PM
We've been hearing these stories for years. Where's the link?

Israel won't do a thing without our approval and Obama will never let it happen.

ricardisimo
01-28-2010, 02:27 PM
And if he watched the video I posted of the Israeli Prime Minister addressing the UN he would also have heard how it shirked its duties to Israel as well

Not only is Netanyahu a war criminal of the first magnitude, but adults should understand that words that come out of the mouths of world leaders are completely lacking in information. Well, that's not entirely true, since they are almost always lying, so if you negate whatever they are saying, you get some odd sort of information, but...

I can post some video of Kim Jong-il making all sorts of pronouncements, if you'd like, but why would I do that? You and I understand that every word that comes out of his mouth is a complete delusion. Ah! But not when "our" leaders speak. No matter how fantastic, they must be speaking the truth. That's called intellectual discipline. I call it obedience.

ricardisimo
01-28-2010, 02:38 PM
Yep, you are living in Lalaland. You truly beleive that if we disarm that the Iranians will drop what they are doing, the Israeli's will follow, then the Russians, Pakistanis, Indians, French, English, and Chinese will just all give up their weapons because we did. I highly doubt it.

Also, the policing duties of the U.N. What, so they can find something wrong and put sanctions on the country and not back up those sanctions? Yeah, how many times did Saddam balk at the U.N., torment them, break all their rules, and laugh in the face of the U.N.? Oh, it was alot. What is the U.N. doing about North Korea restarting their nuclear program? Not a thing. The U.N. is a joke of an organization that only serves one thing, itself and making money.

Of course I'm living in Lalaland, because I confine myself to silly things like facts and data, and completely ignore the words that come out of the mouths of world leaders... total fantasy, you're right.

I'll remind you that the useless U.N. was investigating our claims that Iraq had WMD, finding little, securing what they did find, reporting back to the entire world regularly, and doing so without firing a shot, and all at a minimal cost. Fools! We showed them!

After several hundred billions of dollars, and at least tens of thousands of lives, if not hundreds of thousands, we have found nothing, and so simply changed our pretense for being there to "democracy building". Of course, we are a very, very intellectually disciplined society, so we know to forget what we were previously told, and believe what we are currently being told religiously, until we are told differently. In any case, the U.N. were the useless, foolish, wasteful ones, no matter what the actual numbers say.

revefsreleets
01-28-2010, 02:38 PM
I'm speechless....

What happened to this board? Where did these people come from?

SCSTILLER
01-28-2010, 02:39 PM
We've been hearing these stories for years. Where's the link?

Israel won't do a thing without our approval and Obama will never let it happen.

Killer, not trying to be an arse here, but did the Israeli's get our permission before they bombed Iraq's nuclear program into extinction? I was just wondering because if they didn't ask then, why would they ask now?

Indo
01-28-2010, 02:40 PM
Not only is Netanyahu a war criminal of the first magnitude, but adults should understand that words that come out of the mouths of world leaders are completely lacking in information. Well, that's not entirely true, since they are almost always lying, so if you negate whatever they are saying, you get some odd sort of information, but...

I can post some video of Kim Jong-il making all sorts of pronouncements, if you'd like, but why would I do that? You and I understand that every word that comes out of his mouth is a complete delusion. Ah! But not when "our" leaders speak. No matter how fantastic, they must be speaking the truth. That's called intellectual discipline. I call it obedience.

His country is attacked. He responds---and that makes him a war criminal?

Just like those that planned and carried out D-Day?
Or the US response to the bombing of Pearl Harbor? Please tell me how it's different from that?
Or those (specifically Truman) who ordered and carried out the bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki?

Perhaps you should move away from Lalaland...

ricardisimo
01-28-2010, 02:48 PM
Wow. Simple as that, huh?

Amazing that no one has thought of any of those things yet...

You didn't even listen to/watch the speech, did you?

The UN is a useless waste of space and a poor excuse for any type of an effective governing/policing assemblage

Everyone on the planet has already thought of that, including us after WWII (we are signatories to the U.N. Charter, in case you haven't noticed, making it the law of the land), when the global consensus was for the world body, and remained that way well into the Cold War, when the USSR was the pariah. Then, slowly and steadily, we became the pariah, the rogue state, and suddenly it's no fun having a global body telling you that you can't invade this country, or sponsor terrorism in that one, or overthrow the democratically-elected government of several others.

What a bunch of buzzkills! What's the point of being the Empire if you can't do whatever the hell you want? And why the hell would other countries think that they have a better idea of how to run their government than we do? They're all deluded, of course, as am I. That's a perfect example of how the world has been turned upside-down.

SCSTILLER
01-28-2010, 02:51 PM
Of course I'm living in Lalaland, because I confine myself to silly things like facts and data, and completely ignore the words that come out of the mouths of world leaders... total fantasy, you're right.

I'll remind you that the useless U.N. was investigating our claims that Iraq had WMD, finding little, securing what they did find, reporting back to the entire world regularly, and doing so without firing a shot, and all at a minimal cost. Fools! We showed them!

After several hundred billions of dollars, and at least tens of thousands of lives, if not hundreds of thousands, we have found nothing, and so simply changed our pretense for being there to "democracy building". Of course, we are a very, very intellectually disciplined society, so we know to forget what we were previously told, and believe what we are currently being told religiously, until we are told differently. In any case, the U.N. were the useless, foolish, wasteful ones, no matter what the actual numbers say.

Reah, heh,heh, heally? Well, guess they didn't do such a great job of of finding, securing, or reporting while they were there.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/25546334/

The last major remnant of Saddam Hussein's nuclear program — a huge stockpile of concentrated natural uranium — reached a Canadian port Saturday to complete a secret U.S. operation that included a two-week airlift from Baghdad and a ship voyage crossing two oceans.

Why didn't the UN find this? Why didn't they secure it? I thought the UN weapons inspectors were there to make sure that the Iraqi nuclear program was dead. I guess it wasn't so. Than again, asking the UN to do something right is just a waste of fresh air.

Oh yeah, how did that Oil for Food program workout? Yeah, that was done correctly and honestly.

curtains4u
01-28-2010, 02:55 PM
I'm speechless....

What happened to this board? Where did these people come from?

I'm new to this board but I think it's good that not every single person here is nodding their heads in agreement to a post. Diversity rules! :king:

Indo
01-28-2010, 03:59 PM
Reah, heh,heh, heally? Well, guess they didn't do such a great job of of finding, securing, or reporting while they were there.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/25546334/

The last major remnant of Saddam Hussein's nuclear program — a huge stockpile of concentrated natural uranium — reached a Canadian port Saturday to complete a secret U.S. operation that included a two-week airlift from Baghdad and a ship voyage crossing two oceans.

Why didn't the UN find this? Why didn't they secure it? I thought the UN weapons inspectors were there to make sure that the Iraqi nuclear program was dead. I guess it wasn't so. Than again, asking the UN to do something right is just a waste of fresh air.

Oh yeah, how did that Oil for Food program workout? Yeah, that was done correctly and honestly.



And there it is...
or will he claim that this is all BS, too? He picks and chooses those things that support his Lalaland Worldview, but anything that might actually (factually) contradict that worldview is the product of conspiracies and cowardice.

Borski
01-28-2010, 05:09 PM
Before this gets further out of hand, where is the link to the original article? what is the date of it? this is key information before rumors keep getting spread.

AllD
01-28-2010, 05:20 PM
I say we drop Al Davis, Jerry Jones, and Dan Snyder on Iran.

Indo
01-28-2010, 05:20 PM
I just found it

it's a little old, though----April 2009


http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/middle_east/article6115903.ece

Borski
01-28-2010, 05:28 PM
I just found it

it's a little old, though----April 2009


http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/middle_east/article6115903.ece

Ok there we go, there was no reason to post such an out of date article that has no relevant information right now. all it does is spread rumors and cause problems. Thanks Indo for finding that.

Indo
01-28-2010, 05:52 PM
Ok there we go, there was no reason to post such an out of date article that has no relevant information right now. all it does is spread rumors and cause problems. Thanks Indo for finding that.


Yeah, the whole thread has gotten a bit out of hand. But even though the article is a bit old, I think it still has some relevance with respect to the idea that a nuclear Iran is a very bad thing...

I, for one, think Netanyahu's speech (post #7) is a good one.

SCSTILLER
01-28-2010, 06:48 PM
I say we drop Al Davis, Jerry Jones, and Dan Snyder on Iran.

Let's not get carried away now :chuckle:

SteelerEmpire
01-28-2010, 07:00 PM
Ok there we go, there was no reason to post such an out of date article that has no relevant information right now. all it does is spread rumors and cause problems. Thanks Indo for finding that.

Ha Ha... guys... the date is irrelevant...Its the idea that was the intent... I'm in constant contact with Israel, the "prepping" is still going on that was started with these initial actions... these plans and ideas are still practiced (and can be implemented) at any time...
Don't be surprised if something goes down before the first half of 11... or even this year.

Just look at what Iran's "supreme leader " said a day or so ago: LINK: http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/135756

AND they just eliminated a lot of their own people that were protesting the rigged elections, AND their building nukes.
.... kind of makes you want to defend yourself...

ricardisimo
01-28-2010, 07:51 PM
I say we drop Al Davis, Jerry Jones, and Dan Snyder on Iran.

Like we haven't committed enough war crimes already?

ricardisimo
01-28-2010, 07:52 PM
I'm speechless....

What happened to this board? Where did these people come from?

Indeed. The moral purity of these boards has taken a huge hit in the past year. I'd get out now while you still have your cherry intact, revs.

ricardisimo
01-28-2010, 08:00 PM
Killer, not trying to be an arse here, but did the Israeli's get our permission before they bombed Iraq's nuclear program into extinction? I was just wondering because if they didn't ask then, why would they ask now?

Good point. And by the way, that was a power plant that Israel bombed, and they never claimed any different. In an odd way I agree with them.

Other than countries that received the tech directly from us (Israel) most nuclear powers started with domestic electricity production as their goal and pretence for development, and then steadily migrated their technology to weapons. I think all nukes have to be banned: weapons and energy. There's nothing good, cheap, clean, safe or in any other way, shape or form positive about nuclear technology. It's just bad all around.

Now, is bombing the way to stop this pattern?

ricardisimo
01-28-2010, 08:01 PM
I'm new to this board but I think it's good that not every single person here is nodding their heads in agreement to a post. Diversity rules! :king:

True, that... which is not to say that I'm not a total whackjob who refuses to play ball with all of the other good patriots and toe the party line.

ricardisimo
01-28-2010, 08:05 PM
And there it is...
or will he claim that this is all BS, too? He picks and chooses those things that support his Lalaland Worldview, but anything that might actually (factually) contradict that worldview is the product of conspiracies and cowardice.

This took about 15 seconds of googling: http://www.snopes.com/politics/war/yellowcake.asp

The article is rather Milquetoast in its critique, but still fairly on the mark. The important thing is that you should feel very good about yourself. You knew what you were supposed to believe and you found the one little straw to support those beliefs. That shows character, and profound patriotism. You get a smiley.

It's most important to note is the one detail that the uranium that was removed had been previously catalogued and secured by the UN team, without incident, and without shots being fired, before the invasion. Unacceptable, clearly.

ricardisimo
01-28-2010, 08:47 PM
His country is attacked. He responds---and that makes him a war criminal?

Just like those that planned and carried out D-Day?
Or the US response to the bombing of Pearl Harbor? Please tell me how it's different from that?
Or those (specifically Truman) who ordered and carried out the bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki?

Perhaps you should move away from Lalaland...

Truman is indeed a major war criminal. Make no mistake. If there are ever post mortem trials, he should go right at the top of the list. He bypassed the counsel of his own generals, who told him that using the Bomb was unnecessary, counter-productive and a (at that time probable) war crime, telling them that he needed to get the Russians' attention.

As far as Israel's claims to self-defense, we are either talking about Hizbollah rocket attacks from southern Lebanon into recent northern settlements, or suicide bombings by Palestinians within Israel/Palestine. The second one is fairly straightforward: you don't invade other countries to resolve internal troubles, no matter the pretense.

Britain never invaded south Boston during 70s or 80s, despite knowing full well, with lots of rock-solid evidence that this was not a, but the major source of funding for the IRA's weapons cache. Likewise, Israel has no right to invade Syria or Lybia, despite some evidence that they are supporting the most violent factions of Hamas. Curiously, they have no interest in those countries at all, but rather in Iran, and before them Iraq, two Shi'a countries that have made a point of steering clear of the Sunni Palestinian situation. While they have no particular love of Israel, this is clearly not their fight... unless Israel bombs, of course.

The first case - Hizbollah rockets from southern Lebanon, is slightly more complicated, but not much. Right away one has to recognize that Hizbollah only exists because of Israel; had they not invaded Lebanon (twice) there would be no Hizbollah in southern Lebanon. Hence, making your bed and lying in it.

The other issue is the question of why there are Israeli settlers in those lands in the first place. International law is quite clear: you cannot take over a territory by force, move the natives out and move your own people in. This formula makes the claim that you are defending yourself somewhat of a farce.

Think about it... Iraqis are attacking us, and that violence is part of the rationale for our forces staying in the war effort. But where are they attacking us? In New Jersey? No. In Montana? No, of course not. Iraqis are attacking us in Iraq. Can we claim self-defense? Obviously not.

All of which misses the more basic factual point that Iran has less than nothing to do with Israel's troubles either in its own cafes or in its illegal northern settlements. They might as well invade Spain or France or China for saying bad things about them... which is the sum total of what Iran has done.

SteelerEmpire
01-28-2010, 09:43 PM
Truman is indeed a major war criminal. Make no mistake. If there are ever post mortem trials, he should go right at the top of the list. He bypassed the counsel of his own generals, who told him that using the Bomb was unnecessary, counter-productive and a (at that time probable) war crime, telling them that he needed to get the Russians' attention.

As far as Israel's claims to self-defense, we are either talking about Hizbollah rocket attacks from southern Lebanon into recent northern settlements, or suicide bombings by Palestinians within Israel/Palestine. The second one is fairly straightforward: you don't invade other countries to resolve internal troubles, no matter the pretense.

Britain never invaded south Boston during 70s or 80s, despite knowing full well, with lots of rock-solid evidence that this was not a, but the major source of funding for the IRA's weapons cache. Likewise, Israel has no right to invade Syria or Lybia, despite some evidence that they are supporting the most violent factions of Hamas. Curiously, they have no interest in those countries at all, but rather in Iran, and before them Iraq, two Shi'a countries that have made a point of steering clear of the Sunni Palestinian situation. While they have no particular love of Israel, this is clearly not their fight... unless Israel bombs, of course.

The first case - Hizbollah rockets from southern Lebanon, is slightly more complicated, but not much. Right away one has to recognize that Hizbollah only exists because of Israel; had they not invaded Lebanon (twice) there would be no Hizbollah in southern Lebanon. Hence, making your bed and lying in it.

The other issue is the question of why there are Israeli settlers in those lands in the first place. International law is quite clear: you cannot take over a territory by force, move the natives out and move your own people in. This formula makes the claim that you are defending yourself somewhat of a farce.

Think about it... Iraqis are attacking us, and that violence is part of the rationale for our forces staying in the war effort. But where are they attacking us? In New Jersey? No. In Montana? No, of course not. Iraqis are attacking us in Iraq. Can we claim self-defense? Obviously not.

All of which misses the more basic factual point that Iran has less than nothing to do with Israel's troubles either in its own cafes or in its illegal northern settlements. They might as well invade Spain or France or China for saying bad things about them... which is the sum total of what Iran has done.

No other people in that region has been through as much as the Jews (Israel).
Also, saying that Israel has no right to the land is the same as saying that Arabs have no right to Egypt (it became an Arab country in the year 633 due to an Arab invasion and has been called "an Arab country" since) ... they have been there so long ... who would dare ask them to leave ? The Jews have been in that area for 1000's of years....
Usually, people that have the idea that Israel is "illegally" invading any part of that area (in the borders of Israel) also reject the books of Moses (in the old testament)... its a religious perspective.
No one in the Arab world wants to be bothered with the Palestinians. When they ask for exile or to live in another neighboring country, they are denied and sent back (to Palestine) because of their past behavior in those countries.
Jews have been through enough through out their history to know a threat when they hear one...

Fire Haley
01-28-2010, 09:53 PM
Killer, not trying to be an arse here, but did the Israeli's get our permission before they bombed Iraq's nuclear program into extinction? I was just wondering because if they didn't ask then, why would they ask now?[/QUOTE]

Iran is the key to all of the middle east. Don't drive them away, Obama.
Give them a reason to rise up, one more time.

The deal is we attacked the Sunni Muslims, i.e. the Taliban - their sworn enemy - in Afghan - they should be kissing our feet for even being in that shithole doing their bidding.

Pushing us on the nuclear issue is stupid - they can have all the freedom and preferred business partner if only they get that hardline **** outta there.

Wake up Iranian people - we love you - we want you to be a part of the enlightened world, get your shit together.

We welcome you to the new millenium.

Borski
01-29-2010, 12:36 AM
Ha Ha... guys... the date is irrelevant...Its the idea that was the intent... I'm in constant contact with Israel, the "prepping" is still going on that was started with these initial actions... these plans and ideas are still practiced (and can be implemented) at any time...
Don't be surprised if something goes down before the first half of 11... or even this year.

Just look at what Iran's "supreme leader " said a day or so ago: LINK: http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/135756

AND they just eliminated a lot of their own people that were protesting the rigged elections, AND their building nukes.
.... kind of makes you want to defend yourself...

I'm on Israel's side, Iran has more then done there share of threats, and if Israel thinks there is an imminent threat then they have every right to do a preemptive strike. But the original article implied that they are doing that soon when the article was written a long time ago. that was my only problem.

ricardisimo
01-29-2010, 02:03 AM
No other people in that region has been through as much as the Jews (Israel).
As much what? If you are talking about sheer body count, then the Palestinians have them "beat"; far more Palestinians have died than Israelis in the conflict, and before the first and second Intifada the numbers weren't even in the same hemisphere, let alone ZIP code.

If, on the other hand you are referring to the Holocaust, I would ask what the Palestinians have to do with that. It seems clear to me that there was a political, economic and emotional price to be paid for the Holocaust after WWII, and you better believe Christian Europe was NOT going to be paying that, so let's go find some brown people to pass the bill onto. Voilá... Palestine.

Also, saying that Israel has no right to the land is the same as saying that Arabs have no right to Egypt (it became an Arab country in the year 633 due to an Arab invasion and has been called "an Arab country" since) ... they have been there so long ... who would dare ask them to leave ? The Jews have been in that area for 1000's of years....
Well, some small groups of Jews have been there for thousands of years. That's a very different thing from saying "The Jews" have been there for thousands of years. To this very day they continue to be a minority "majority" in their own country, despite heavy influx of Russian, American and Eastern European Jews. I'm not sure how you could claim that a population that is 90+% immigrant has been there for "1000's of years." And besides... we're talking about 1948, not biblical times, not 633 AD nor any similar dates. It's ridiculous to bring that up.
No one in the Arab world wants to be bothered with the Palestinians. When they ask for exile or to live in another neighboring country, they are denied and sent back (to Palestine) because of their past behavior in those countries.
Jews have been through enough through out their history to know a threat when they hear one...
If anything, the Palestinian cause is just about the only thing unifying the Muslim world, which contrary to Western belief, is not monolithic or monochromatic at all. Shi'a Iran cannot stand Sunni anything, and yet there they are talking up the cause and "down with Israel", etc. As far as not being welcome anywhere, they have been, statistically speaking, one of the most economically successful ethnic groups in the United States, right up there with Greeks and Jew, to be sure, so I don't know what you're talking about there.

steelerdude15
01-29-2010, 02:09 AM
Politics and Religion ruin everything. The only good thing in life are Steelers' football, Pens' hockey, Pitt Panthers... and of course the Bucs.

ricardisimo
01-29-2010, 05:20 AM
Politics and Religion ruin everything. The only good thing in life are Steelers' football, Pens' hockey, Pitt Panthers... and of course the Bucs.

... and that woman on the right in the posted picture. How the hell did she lose that bikini contest?

SteelerEmpire
01-29-2010, 09:45 AM
As much what? If you are talking about sheer body count, then the Palestinians have them "beat"; far more Palestinians have died than Israelis in the conflict, and before the first and second Intifada the numbers weren't even in the same hemisphere, let alone ZIP code.

If, on the other hand you are referring to the Holocaust, I would ask what the Palestinians have to do with that. It seems clear to me that there was a political, economic and emotional price to be paid for the Holocaust after WWII, and you better believe Christian Europe was NOT going to be paying that, so let's go find some brown people to pass the bill onto. Voilá... Palestine.


Well, some small groups of Jews have been there for thousands of years. That's a very different thing from saying "The Jews" have been there for thousands of years. To this very day they continue to be a minority "majority" in their own country, despite heavy influx of Russian, American and Eastern European Jews. I'm not sure how you could claim that a population that is 90+% immigrant has been there for "1000's of years." And besides... we're talking about 1948, not biblical times, not 633 AD nor any similar dates. It's ridiculous to bring that up.

If anything, the Palestinian cause is just about the only thing unifying the Muslim world, which contrary to Western belief, is not monolithic or monochromatic at all. Shi'a Iran cannot stand Sunni anything, and yet there they are talking up the cause and "down with Israel", etc. As far as not being welcome anywhere, they have been, statistically speaking, one of the most economically successful ethnic groups in the United States, right up there with Greeks and Jew, to be sure, so I don't know what you're talking about there.

It all boils down to what I said... people that accept the state of Palestine, reject the decree of God's promise to Israel to that land... The state of Israel exists "because" of this passage... always has.
Its a known fact that most of the Arab world don't want anything to do with Palestinians when it comes to accepting them into their countries...
As far is Islam is concerned, how can a religion accept/use "the Jewish Bible" as the base of their religion and not know what was to come ??? It was written "thousands" of years ago that this would happen ?? How can you accept certain aspects that you like, and then throw out the others that you don't like ??
Lets face it. Through out history Jews have been under the persecuted by almost all of the peoples in that region. But let me state, their aggression was brought about by decrees NOT in the "Bible"... the state of Israel-with all of its pros and cons, once again, exists BECAUSE of decrees in the Hebrew Bible.
As far as Brown people are concerned, Jews have been an ethnic minority since inception. There are European, Arab, Black, Hispanic, Oriental, etc... Jews...
Also, Judaism is a "religion"... not a race... I can even run off the names of famous Jews that "appear " to be European... but on the other hand uses "hair relaxer" to slick down their "African-like" hair... LOL....
So Judaism is "multi-ethnic" entity... not European as most non-Jews believe...

Indo
01-29-2010, 11:19 AM
How can you accept certain aspects that you like, and then throw out the others that you don't like ??
...

He can do this because that's what he always does---whether it's concerning the world community or just football----that's the way he validates himself...oh, and let's not forget the arrogance to think that he actually knows more about any of this than everyone else. And that he is somehow superior because he doesn't believe everything he reads-----he only believes those things that he reads that support his worldview.

He needs to wrap himself up in Lalaland and keep hoping for a savior of some sort to visit him there and tell him that he was right all along

With that, I am done with this...

ricardisimo
01-31-2010, 12:21 AM
It all boils down to what I said... people that accept the state of Palestine, reject the decree of God's promise to Israel to that land... The state of Israel exists "because" of this passage... always has.
Its a known fact that most of the Arab world don't want anything to do with Palestinians when it comes to accepting them into their countries...
As far is Islam is concerned, how can a religion accept/use "the Jewish Bible" as the base of their religion and not know what was to come ??? It was written "thousands" of years ago that this would happen ?? How can you accept certain aspects that you like, and then throw out the others that you don't like ??
Lets face it. Through out history Jews have been under the persecuted by almost all of the peoples in that region. But let me state, their aggression was brought about by decrees NOT in the "Bible"... the state of Israel-with all of its pros and cons, once again, exists BECAUSE of decrees in the Hebrew Bible.
As far as Brown people are concerned, Jews have been an ethnic minority since inception. There are European, Arab, Black, Hispanic, Oriental, etc... Jews...
Also, Judaism is a "religion"... not a race... I can even run off the names of famous Jews that "appear " to be European... but on the other hand uses "hair relaxer" to slick down their "African-like" hair... LOL....
So Judaism is "multi-ethnic" entity... not European as most non-Jews believe...

I don't even know where to begin with this. If I wrote a book tomorrow that promised that land to me, what would you say about that? Last I checked, Islam has books, too, full of just as much nonsense as Jewish and Christian ones.

I'm not sure where the "race" talk came from with regards to the Jews. Technically, "the Jews" are considered an "ethnoreligious" group. You can do with that information what you will.

Indo... do you ever add anything other than emotion and insults to discussions? I form arguments and try to back them up. Sometimes I succeed, and sometimes I fail. I'd love to hear how that constitutes me thinking I'm superior. I think you're projecting... I think that you think I'm superior, which is really quite flattering, and it makes me all warm inside. Thank you so very much, but it's really not necessary.

BrandonCarr39
01-31-2010, 12:45 AM
An attack on Iran will lead to a nuclear WW3, and out of the ashes of it will arise the one world antichist leader described in Daniel/Revelation.

ricardisimo
01-31-2010, 01:18 AM
An attack on Iran will lead to a nuclear WW3, and out of the ashes of it will arise the one world antichist leader described in Daniel/Revelation.

Trust me: after a nuclear WWIII, the Antichrist can have the planet Earth. No one else will want it. Of course, we'll all be dead, including the Antichrist, but still... if he wants it at that point it's all his. And he certainly couldn't possibly do any worse with it than the Christians and other "good people" who blew it up in the first place.

urgle burgle
02-01-2010, 11:13 AM
let me just ask this simple question....then i will know more of where you are coming from?

if we knew Japan was definately (and some go with the argument we did, thats sorta/kinda true, but mostly guess work and hindsight) do you think we had the right to attack them to stop it? or do you think we only had the right to bolster our defenses and wait? did we have the right to retaliate, and if so, how far? bomb them, take over the islands and thats it, go to the homeland? where do you think it would have ended? as far as the truman thing, thats only partly true also. some of his generals said we shouldnt, some said we should. some thought russia entering would stop the war, some didnt. so your arguement isnt entirely true. but, if you could answer my initial questions, i would greatly appreciate it.

thanks