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Steely McSmash
02-02-2010, 09:31 PM
There are quite a few 3-4 teams in the market for a Nose Tackle this year. The talent pool does not appear to be very deep this year unfortunately.

Here’s a rundown of the 3-4 teams in Need: New England (FA Starter), Miami (poor starter), Pittsburgh (old FA Starter), Kansas City(poor old starter), NY Jets (old starter), San Diego, (old starter), Arizona (old starter), Denver (could upgrade).

Casey Hampton and Vince Willfork still have some mileage left in them so there is a reasonable need for 6 Nose Tackles for the 3-4 teams.

In addition, several 4-3 teams are in the market for big tackles, notably Houston, Jacksonville, Oakland, and New Orleans.

Consensus stature for an NFL 3-4 Nose Tackle is 6-4 or shorter, generally 320+ lb. The guy needs to be able to stuff the run, anchor well, have good strength at the point of attack, command double-teams routinely.

Just for reference here are the sizes of some prototypical NT as they entered the draft:

Casey Hampton – 6-1, 314
VinceWilfork 6-1, 323
Haloti Ngata 6-4, 338

There are some guys who don’t quite tip the scale but are able to play NT in the NFL. Some notable examples are Chris Hoke (6-2, 305) who’s been our capable backup and Jay Ratliff of the Cowboys who’s 6-4, 303 and has been to 2 Pro Bowls. These guys make up for their lack of size with tenacity, athleticism, and technique.

In my rundown here, I’ve included some of these guys, particularly if they’re stout against the run. If some draft sources are to believed, these guys are 4-3 Under Tackles only. Considering the number of teams in the market for NT talent, I think it’s likely that some of these guys will get a shot at 34NT. Worst case, if they don’t work out at NT they might end up being a 3-4 DE in the mode of Kimo von Oelhoffen (6-4, 300) ,who actually started at Nose Tackle in 2000. I marked these smaller guys with an * below.

These are more or less top-down in draft order.

Dan Williams Tenn 6-2, 329 -- Blue chip NT. Stout vs the run, collapses the pocket. Handles a doubleteam. Low center of gravity and good weight.

* Brian Price UCLA 6-2,300 - Tenacious player who has a low center and is good versus the run. Handled doubleteams routinely. Could be stronger in lower body. Pheonemenal production in College.

Terrence Cody Bama 6-4, 370 - Good in the game, poor condition, weight risk, good natural athletecism. Looking like a late 1st round guy. Concensus #2

* Lamarr Houston Texas 6-3, 302 - Did not shine in Sr. Bowl. Inconsistent reports: Sideline Scouting- good vs run, strong at point of attack, good lateral quickness, Not an experienced tackle. Bleacher Report -- weak at the point of attack.

* D'Anthony Smith La Tech 6-2, 300 Reports on this guy are inconsistent- CBS Sportsline -Can't handle doubleteams in Sr. bowl. Sideline scouting - Strong and powerful, good vs run, handles doubleteam. High character. Undersized but a very high motor guy.

* Mike Neal Purdue 6-3, 293 – might be a better 3-4 end. Inconsistent Reports: sideline scouting: Good vs run, good motor, stout vs run, good character. Bleacher Report: Not good vs good competition at Sr. Bowl

Torrell Troupe UCF 6-2, 310 Good showing at the Shrine game and during the International Bowl. He can command a double team. Looking like a 2nd or 3rd rounder. # 3 or 4

Cam Thomas NC 6-4, 331 Solid Performance in Sr. Bowl. Good versus the run and good size. Likely #3 or #4 NT

Linval Joseph ECU 6-6, 322 Junior played well at ECU. With his height he might be a better fit as a 4-3 NT. 4th or 5th rounder.

Ekom Udofia Stanford 6-2, 315 Played NT at Stanford where he routinely occupied multiple blockers. 4th-5th round

* Jeff Owens GA 6-1 305 Knee Injury in 2009. Thought he looked ok in the Sr. Bowl. From what I’ve read he’s likely more of a depth pickup in mid-late rounds. SportingNews (http://www.sportingnews.com/nfl/article/2010-01-28/senior-bowl-dish-best-best-idahos-iupati-ole-miss-mccluster) said “He demonstrated the raw strength inside to be a natural 3-4 nose tackle, and he has the frame to add the necessary weight to play the position well in the NFL” Probably mid-Late round

* Boo Robinson Wake Forest 6-2,300 – draft stock seems to be falling on this guy. If he didn’t stand out against lower tier competition, he’s a project at best. Late round/FA guy.

Jay Ross ECU 6-3, 314 Good size but unspectacular play at a small school does not bode well for a starting NFL role early in his career. Late round/FA prospect.

Jason Baston MO 6-0,309 Not Strong enough or talented enough to be NFL ready. Might contend after a year on a practice squad. Projected as a FA

Northside Jonny
02-02-2010, 10:01 PM
Cam Thomas is a guy who is really intersting to me . Also think if Lamarr Houston puts on some weight he could play 34 NT and if not lik you said he would be able to play DE.

devilsdancefloor
02-02-2010, 10:14 PM
i got to see a lot of mike neal at purdue. He will not be a NT in the NFL and if a team picks him to be there NT he will fail. he is more of a DE. He has a great motor and is a steeler kind of guy. very god head on his shoulders. But he would be a project , but he has all the ability to be a good DE in a 3-4.

Texasteel
02-03-2010, 05:27 AM
Cam Thomas is a guy who is really intersting to me . Also think if Lamarr Houston puts on some weight he could play 34 NT and if not lik you said he would be able to play DE.

Houston put on about 25lbs. from last year. I think I would rather keep him at DE, I don't know about NT. He played very well in the championship game.

SteelMember
02-03-2010, 08:24 AM
On a similar note...

Here's something I was putting together on this subject.
I was looking to see where some other 3-4 teams stacked-up at the NT position.

Pittsburgh Steelers - Casey Hampton (9) Chris Hoke (9) Steve McLendon (1-PS)
Kansas City Chiefs - Ron Edwards (9) Kenny Smith (7) Marlon Favorite (1-PS)
Cleveland Browns - Shaun Rogers (9) Ahtyba Rubin (2)
GreenBay Packers - Ryan Pickett (9) BJ Raji (1) Anthony Torbino (1-PS)
Denver Broncos - Ronald Fields (5) Marcus Thomas (3) Chris Baker (1) J'Vonne Parker (5-IR)
San Diego Chargers - Travis Johnson (5) Ogemdi Nwagbuo (1) Ian Scott (7) Jamal Williams (12-IR) Ryon Bingham (5-IR)
New England Patriots* - Ron Brace (1) Titus Adams (1) Myron Pryor (1) Darryl Richard (1)
New York Jets - Sione Pouha (5) Howard Green (5) Kris Jenkins (9-IR)
Dallas Cowboys - Jay Ratliff (5) Junior Siavii (4)

Hybrid 3-4, 4-3
Miami Dolphins - Jason Ferguson (13) Paul Soliai (3) Tony McDaniel (4)
Baltimore Ravens - Kelly Gregg (10) Haloti Ngata (4) Kelly Talavou (1) Brandon McKinney (4) Lamar Divens (2-PS)
San Francisco - Aubrayo Franklin (7)

Kansas City, Cleveland, Denver, San Francisco and Miami all pick ahead of us this year...

Just something to consider when thinking of other teams needs, and who might be there later. :noidea:

lamberts-lost-tooth
02-03-2010, 08:41 AM
If picked at points of value...I would want Williams/Cody/Troupe and Thomas. In that order.

mulldog24
02-04-2010, 11:52 AM
For all of the reams running the 3-4 now and they pretty much all need either a starter or good depth at NT I think that there is a good chance that Troupe and Thomas could go as early as early in the 2nd rd. I think for that reason alone we need Dan Williams in the 1st or trade back a couple of spots and get an extra 2nd and draft Cody. He may be a weight problem but so is Hampton and we rotate guys in all the time anyway. Cody allways shows up on gameday though.

SteelMember
02-04-2010, 12:11 PM
[QUOTE=mulldog24;767262]For all of the reams running the 3-4 now and they pretty much all need either a starter or good depth at NTQUOTE]

With the exceptions maybe being GB (Raji), NE (Brace). Two guys drafted early last year. And probably BAL (Ngata). Everyone else... yes.

mulldog24
02-04-2010, 01:04 PM
Hey guys I have a question. Jared Odrick DT Penn ST, is 6'4" and 301, Has a high motor, is similar I think to Jay Ratliff in size. Reportedly, Matt McGuire from Walterfootball.com says he has the frame to handle about 15 more lbs of weight. Could this guy be a good candidate to play some NT for us as well as DE if he can get up to about 315 to 320 lbs? Providing this report is accurate.

SteelMember
02-04-2010, 03:54 PM
Hey guys I have a question. Jared Odrick DT Penn ST, is 6'4" and 301, Has a high motor, is similar I think to Jay Ratliff in size. Reportedly, Matt McGuire from Walterfootball.com says he has the frame to handle about 15 more lbs of weight. Could this guy be a good candidate to play some NT for us as well as DE if he can get up to about 315 to 320 lbs? Providing this report is accurate.

I wouldn't doubt that he might be able to handle NT duties (the guy is a fantastic player), but I'd prefer to keep him at his current size and weight put him at DE in the 3-4 scheme... Similar to what we're doing with Hood.

Chidi29
02-04-2010, 05:20 PM
Hey guys I have a question. Jared Odrick DT Penn ST, is 6'4" and 301, Has a high motor, is similar I think to Jay Ratliff in size. Reportedly, Matt McGuire from Walterfootball.com says he has the frame to handle about 15 more lbs of weight. Could this guy be a good candidate to play some NT for us as well as DE if he can get up to about 315 to 320 lbs? Providing this report is accurate.

No. He'd still be pretty lean at 6-4 320. You usually want your NTs pretty short, around 6'2. And if you just look at the guy, you can tell he isn't big enough for it. Fine as an end, best as a 4-3 up tackle, but not as a NT. At least, not for our system. The Cowboys run a different type of 3-4 than we do.

mulldog24
02-05-2010, 09:41 AM
I wouldn't doubt that he might be able to handle NT duties (the guy is a fantastic player), but I'd prefer to keep him at his current size and weight put him at DE in the 3-4 scheme... Similar to what we're doing with Hood.

I'd say you and Chidi29 are both right and he would best serve the Steelers as a DE only, Thanks!:thumbsup:

lamberts-lost-tooth
02-05-2010, 01:04 PM
SF has 2 picks ahead of us Trade anyone

San Fran has two positions of need that are greater than NT. They have Aubrayo Franklin who played some pretty good ball, but they might decide to find an upgrade or a NT to rotate in and out..
They HAVE to address RT in the first. There is a chance that if the right guy fell to them they might put him at LT and move Staley to RT.
They also need a legit 3-4 OLB to get some sort of pressure on the QB.

I'm not sure if they will go NT until at least the 2nd-3rd rounds

Steely McSmash
02-05-2010, 01:19 PM
San Fran has two positions of need that are greater than NT. They have Aubrayo Franklin who played some pretty good ball, but they might decide to find an upgrade or a NT to rotate in and out..
They HAVE to address RT in the first. There is a chance that if the right guy fell to them they might put him at LT and move Staley to RT.
They also need a legit 3-4 OLB to get some sort of pressure on the QB.

I'm not sure if they will go NT until at least the 2nd-3rd rounds


I think Denver and Miami would be the biggest risks if you're pulling to get Dan Williams. Browns and Chiefs are too far up to be getting good value.

Miami is my biggest concern. they could use OLB help as well. Maybe they'd bite on Graham or Kindle. I wouldn't if I were them though.

lamberts-lost-tooth
02-05-2010, 01:24 PM
I think Denver and Miami would be the biggest risks if you're pulling to get Dan Williams. Browns and Chiefs are too far up to be getting good value.

Miami is my biggest concern. they could use OLB help as well. Maybe they'd bite on Graham or Kindle. I wouldn't if I were them though.

Miami has Jason Ferguson (coming off a surgery) and a promising NT in Paul Soliai. You brought up a good point about them needing a 3-4 OLB and I think that Kindle is a good bet at #12.

Wow...I really shouldnt know all this.

I'm pathetic.

MasterOfPuppets
02-05-2010, 01:33 PM
there's a common misconception on this board that the few NT prospects in the draft are strictly only 3-4 prospects. have no doubt that 4-3 teams will ALSO be looking at these guys.

MasterOfPuppets
02-05-2010, 01:39 PM
San Fran has two positions of need that are greater than NT. They have Aubrayo Franklin who played some pretty good ball, but they might decide to find an upgrade or a NT to rotate in and out..
They HAVE to address RT in the first. There is a chance that if the right guy fell to them they might put him at LT and move Staley to RT.
They also need a legit 3-4 OLB to get some sort of pressure on the QB.

I'm not sure if they will go NT until at least the 2nd-3rd rounds
franklin is also up for free agency and he's on the wrong side of 30.. they may wanna go younger and cheaper just like the steelers may be doing..:noidea:

here's a list of free agent tackles...
http://walterfootball.com/freeagents2010DT.php

lamberts-lost-tooth
02-05-2010, 01:41 PM
there's a common misconception on this board that the few NT prospects in the draft are strictly only 3-4 prospects. have no doubt that 4-3 teams will ALSO be looking at these guys.

Great point.

In the latest draft I was fiddling around with...I have us passing on a NT in the first and the Vikings taking Dan Williams as the replacement for the soon to be retireing Pat Williams.

lamberts-lost-tooth
02-05-2010, 01:49 PM
franklin is also up for free agency and he's on the wrong side of 30.. they may wanna go younger and cheaper just like the steelers may be doing..:noidea:

here's a list of free agent tackles...
http://walterfootball.com/freeagents2010DT.php

Granted....They have the same problem as us (UFA/age).

But then again...I'm not convinced that we grab a NT in the first and may also wait for a Cam Thomas or Torrell Troupe

MasterOfPuppets
02-05-2010, 01:54 PM
Granted....They have the same problem as us (UFA/age).

But then again...I'm not convinced that we grab a NT in the first and may also wait for a Cam Thomas or Torrell Troupe
well you've heard the old saying "you snooze, you lose".... i just don't think, any of the 4 legit prospects will be on the board by our 3rd pick...write it down, you heard it here first...:chuckle:

lamberts-lost-tooth
02-05-2010, 02:10 PM
well you've heard the old saying "you snooze, you lose".... i just don't think, any of the 4 legit prospects will be on the board by our 3rd pick...write it down, you heard it here first...:chuckle:

Wouldnt bother me a bit to go with Thomas in the 1st...Troupe in the 2nd...and either OT's Jared Veldheer or Roger Saffold in the 3rd round. (OR Jason Fox ...if he gets cleared medically, after being diagnosed with the irregular heartbeat)

SteelMember
02-05-2010, 03:01 PM
Miami has Jason Ferguson (coming off a surgery) and a promising NT in Paul Soliai. You brought up a good point about them needing a 3-4 OLB and I think that Kindle is a good bet at #12.

Wow...I really shouldnt know all this.

I'm pathetic.


Miami is also in need of a #1 receiver. We are talking about Parcells here so defense could take early priority, but if they want a true #1 talent, I would think you probably can't wait past the second. So they could very well go 1. OLB, 2. WR, or vice versa.

lamberts-lost-tooth
02-05-2010, 03:43 PM
Miami is also in need of a #1 receiver. We are talking about Parcells here so defense could take early priority, but if they want a true #1 talent, I would think you probably can't wait past the second. So they could very well go 1. OLB, 2. WR, or vice versa.

I did a little research on Parcells picks....In all his tenure in the NFL, he has used a #1 draft pick on a WR twice, (Terry Glenn/Keyshawn Johnson)...and has drafted a LBer 5 times: Willie McGinest, LB /James Farrior, OLB/DeMarcus Ware, OLB/Bobby Carpenter, LB/Anthony Spencer, OLB

SteelMember
02-05-2010, 03:58 PM
I did a little research on Parcells picks....In all his tenure in the NFL, he has used a #1 draft pick on a WR twice, (Terry Glenn/Keyshawn Johnson)...and has drafted a LBer 5 times: Willie McGinest, LB /James Farrior, OLB/DeMarcus Ware, OLB/Bobby Carpenter, LB/Anthony Spencer, OLB

So, I guess I'm not reaching too far. :chuckle: 30%+ :noidea:

SteelerNation12
02-05-2010, 07:33 PM
The Jets won't be in the market for a NT for a while, Kris Jenkins isn't that old and they have solid depth guys behind him.

And I'm sure the Patriots drafted Ron Brace to play NT if Vince isn't brought back.

MasterOfPuppets
02-06-2010, 03:41 AM
well you can now add 2 more teams to the list of teams competing for 3-4 players...:doh:

Buffalo is the latest team to attempt to emulate the Steelers.

Washington hired long-time Steelers defensive assistant Lou Spanos as its linebackers coach. Spanos will be reunited with new defensive coordinator Jim Haslett — the two worked together with the Steelers.

And like Buffalo, Washington is making the switch to the 3-4 next season.

If Clark, Carter and Eason don't re-sign with the Steelers, Washington could be another potential destination.

The NFL is a copycat league. In 2009, 13 teams played the 3-4 as their base defense. Buffalo and Washington will increase that total to 15.

SteelerNation12
02-06-2010, 03:48 AM
well you can now add 2 more teams to the list of teams competing for 3-4 players...:doh:

:doh: at the Redskins, why hire a 3-4 D coach when you know Haynesworth is a crappy fit and making bank. That team is stupid.

Steely McSmash
02-06-2010, 09:24 AM
The Jets won't be in the market for a NT for a while, Kris Jenkins isn't that old and they have solid depth guys behind him.

And I'm sure the Patriots drafted Ron Brace to play NT if Vince isn't brought back.

I took a deeper look into Jenkins. I had originally put him on there because he was 30 and injured.

He's signed for 2 more years. He tore his ACL last year (tore his other one in 2005) so I'm thinking he's still a question mark. If the year is uncapped you have to think the Jets can afford to keep him but who do they have the pipeline? According to ESPN's depth chart the backup is Sione Pouha, who is also 30. Maybe a second tier priority for them.

Good point on Brace as well. Maybe they let Wilfork go then?

jollyrob68
02-07-2010, 02:46 AM
Jared Odrick, Dan Williams, Cam Thomas, Terrell Troupe. If they took Jared in the first the could get one of the others later and use Jared at End. I think Jared would rotate Immediately. With so many teams using 34 they may have to reach for one later on if they don't take one in the first.
I want to Trade Casey Hampton to KC for their two 2nd round picks. Then we can take Jared in the first and get the DB,OC,NT in the second.

Chidi29
02-07-2010, 02:53 AM
Jared Odrick, Dan Williams, Cam Thomas, Terrell Troupe. If they took Jared in the first the could get one of the others later and use Jared at End. I think Jared would rotate Immediately. With so many teams using 34 they may have to reach for one later on if they don't take one in the first.
I want to Trade Casey Hampton to KC for their two 2nd round picks. Then we can take Jared in the first and get the DB,OC,NT in the second.

Why would KC ever do that? If they know we're shopping him, they'd rather just wait and try their luck at getting him as a FA than having to give up two first rounders AND giving him a new deal.

Texasteel
02-07-2010, 04:23 AM
Wouldn't bother me a bit to go with Thomas in the 1st...Troupe in the 2nd...and either OT's Jared Veldheer or Roger Saffold in the 3rd round. (OR Jason Fox ...if he gets cleared medically, after being diagnosed with the irregular heartbeat)

This draft would not bother me either, not at all. At first look next years NT prospect list looks thinner than this years. If we don't get one I'm going to watch the kid Kendrick Ellis out of Hampton real close next year. Hampton seem to have a surprise for us every one and a while.