PDA

View Full Version : Cowher: Patriots Were Better Than Steelers in 2000's


SteelerEmpire
02-04-2010, 11:19 AM
Bill Cowher: Patriots edge Colts, Steelers as NFL's team of the decade in 2000s

Article. 2/4/2010

The debate over what team was the franchise of the decade has lingered as the Colts prepare this week to win their second Super Bowl title of the 2000s.

The Colts (one Super Bowl win thus far), Patriots (three Super Bowl wins) and Steelers (two Super Bowl wins) are the only real competitors for the mythical title. Some have suggested that the Colts, with a record 115 regular-season wins to the Patriots' 113, could claim the title with a win on Sunday.

But Bill Cowher, the former Steelers coach who led Pittsburgh to one of its championships, said the contest is already over:

"I think the decade still has to go to New England. But the Pittsburgh Steelers went to a lot of championship games, won two Super Bowls. The Colts I'm not so sure within the last five years they haven't been the most consistent football team.

"But you go back to the body of work and the consistency, and I think New England clearly is above everybody else. They never had that one down year. They've been on the brink from when they first won in 2001 until this past year they were in the playoffs. They've been the most consistent team."

Some might consider the Patriots' achievements tainted by the Spygate scandal in which the NFL punished them for recording opposing coaches' signals. But Cowher dismissed that as a relative non-factor:

"Listen, there's people stealing signals all the time before that. You have ways to hide those things. We had wristbands for our defense. I remember trying to get offensive plays and see what the formations were. Everybody knows.

"You're trying to gain a competitive edge. Did that go beyond it? To a degree. Do I think that helped them win football games? No. You still have to go out and play the game. I still have a hard time believing that was a difference in a game."
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ha Ha Ha..... good ol' Bill....

jonslow
02-04-2010, 11:24 AM
I really hate to agree with that sentiment, but I think the chin is right on this one. The Pats really were a powerhouse throughout the decade, and whether you attribute that to coaching, quarterback play or a stout, veteran defense, I can't argue that they are the team of the decade.

The Steelers have been really good, but they've also been inconsistent. Look at the hangover years after the two Superbowl wins. We didn't make playoffs either year. The Colts are extremely consistent, but it's all about the harware in pro sports.

But God do I hate Tom Brady...

Prok
02-04-2010, 12:11 PM
I'd give the patty's the nod as well.

But i'll also add that it was so un-canny that every time we played them ( save for Ben's first game as a rook vs them) they seemed to know exactly what our offense was gonna do each play. Then their offense seemed to catch us off-guard on defense alot too.

kirklandrules
02-04-2010, 01:17 PM
Nope, I disagree. Cowher still wants a coaching job and has to work with some of the key people involved (Belicheat and NFL commissioner & staff). So he has incentive to downplay this. Plus, he will come across as a sore loser if he even hints it wasn't a fair game.

But let's not forget:

Farrior and Porter both said the same defensive signals were used in that championship game as the regular season game
The Steelers were 15-1 and had the most dominant defense in the league ... yet got blown out at home
Players, such as Hines Ward, made comments prior to leaving the field that "it was like they knew our plays"
Belicheat couldn't coach his way out of a paper bag in Cleveland, yet he's a genius in New England? BS!


Also consider, if this wasn't a big edge why would Mangini act with such fervor to prevent Belicheat from using the first half spy film during the first matchup between the NYJ and NE?

Yes, the players still have to go out and make the plays. But when Tom Brady drops back to pass in the first quarter of the AFC Championship in Pittsburgh and launches a bomb for a touchdown, it's much easier when he already knows the safetys won't be covering the deep middle.

It's a basic fact that championships were stolen here and the league understands that they have to minimize this or it would leave a huge mark on its image.

fansince'76
02-04-2010, 01:33 PM
Some might consider the Patriots' achievements tainted by the Spygate scandal in which the NFL punished them for recording opposing coaches' signals.

This is where I'm at as well. Especially after the relative whitewash the whole thing was given by Goodell - said "punishment" was a goddamn joke. Sure, let's slap a $500,000 fine on a billionaire - that'll show 'em. Call me a sore loser, I don't care. IMO, kirklandrules is correct in that Cowher has to remain PC over the whole thing if he still wishes to remain employed in some capacity with regards to the NFL. I don't. Fact remains they "won" 3 SBs by a FG a piece when they used, err, "questionable practices," yet they lost a SB by a FG to a HUGE underdog when they couldn't do so anymore. Proof's in the pudding.

lamberts-lost-tooth
02-04-2010, 01:48 PM
This is where I'm at as well. Especially after the relative whitewash the whole thing was given by Goodell - said "punishment" was a goddamn joke. Sure, let's slap a $500,000 fine on a billionaire - that'll show 'em. Call me a sore loser, I don't care. IMO, kirklandrules is correct in that Cowher has to remain PC over the whole thing if he still wishes to remain employed in some capacity with regards to the NFL. I don't. Fact remains they "won" 3 SBs by a FG a piece when they used, err, "questionable practices," yet they lost a SB by a FG to a HUGE underdog when they couldn't do so anymore. Proof's in the pudding.

Agree completely.

How many teams could have been "better" than the Steelers in the 90's had they cheated for an advantage?

Colts...?
Eagles..?
Packers..?

"better"...in this instance is arbitrary, based on ones willingness to overlook the Patriots organizations tainted record.

steelpride12
02-04-2010, 01:56 PM
This is where I'm at as well. Especially after the relative whitewash the whole thing was given by Goodell - said "punishment" was a goddamn joke. Sure, let's slap a $500,000 fine on a billionaire - that'll show 'em. Call me a sore loser, I don't care. IMO, kirklandrules is correct in that Cowher has to remain PC over the whole thing if he still wishes to remain employed in some capacity with regards to the NFL. I don't. Fact remains they "won" 3 SBs by a FG a piece when they used, err, "questionable practices," yet they lost a SB by a FG to a HUGE underdog when they couldn't do so anymore. Proof's in the pudding.

Agreed. How could you call any team winners or a better team when they cheated, and saying its OK being he charged Belicheat pocket change as a fine and making up for it? No way. Cowher knows that as well, but I agree he kinda had to say that.

supa_fly_steeler
02-04-2010, 02:21 PM
the patriots of the decade 00 will always be clouded in cheatism, the cowboys, 49ers and steelers dynasty were not filled with cheaters and thoroughly deserve the title.

who cares bradys a asshole. he knows he's hated and karmas a bitch as he laughs at plax prediction.

revefsreleets
02-04-2010, 02:30 PM
He can also only speak to that which has been DISCLOSED.

He can't comment on stealing radio frequencies and all the other allegations, because the NFL chose (conveniently) to bury the matter.

steeltheone
02-04-2010, 02:41 PM
Still played on the field and we lost. We could have won that 2001 game. To many mistakes. We blew it. 2005 we had a rookie QB. Pats feasted on Ben as we did Flacco.

BigBen'sSwagger
02-04-2010, 03:07 PM
When Cowher left here he still had a year left on his contract not exactly the mark of a happy camper if you ask me. That being considered don't you think he would take a shot at this Steelers team if he could and as others say it is also the pc thing to do, but I'll go even further than that. He could have just stayed quiet on the matter if he really wanted to but becuase he didn't suggests to me he still has a bone to pick with this organization. I personally don't give a rats butt what he thinks...they cheated and will forever be a tainted team.

SMR
02-04-2010, 03:37 PM
This is where I'm at as well. Especially after the relative whitewash the whole thing was given by Goodell - said "punishment" was a goddamn joke. Sure, let's slap a $500,000 fine on a billionaire - that'll show 'em. Call me a sore loser, I don't care. IMO, kirklandrules is correct in that Cowher has to remain PC over the whole thing if he still wishes to remain employed in some capacity with regards to the NFL. I don't. Fact remains they "won" 3 SBs by a FG a piece when they used, err, "questionable practices," yet they lost a SB by a FG to a HUGE underdog when they couldn't do so anymore. Proof's in the pudding.

I'd have to agree with you on all these points. I want to add that I agree Cowher is just being a PC "*****" to the NFL media. I will always like him as a former Steelers coach, but not the way he's been behaving for the NFL media nowadays. It's just a power trip for him IMHO.

steelreserve
02-04-2010, 03:38 PM
Well, whatever. This whole "team of the decade" argument is completely pointless this time around, because the Patriots haven't won dick for half a decade, the Colts are still adding to their "dynasty" argument although they're probably near the end, and the Steelers' window for winning more Super Bowls probably has another 5-6 years to go.

I mean, the Patriots were dominant from like 2000-2005 and we'll end up being dominant from 2005-2015. It's apples and oranges, and it doesn't really fit if you try to cram a "dynasty" tag into a neat little 10-year window this time.



... in conclusion, Patriots suck and Tom Brady is gay.

SMR
02-04-2010, 03:40 PM
He can also only speak to that which has been DISCLOSED.

He can't comment on stealing radio frequencies and all the other allegations, because the NFL chose (conveniently) to bury the matter.

How......convenient, indeed!

:banging:

SqhillSteeler
02-04-2010, 04:31 PM
How many times have you heard that Bill Belichick is a master of half-time adjustments......Yeah cuz thats when they would watch the tapes. Not only are they not the team of the decade, they aren't even real winners until they win a superbowl without cheating. I love how the NFL was able to just sweep this scandal under the rug and play all the fans as fools. The reason they were able to do such a good job is because the coaches that got played (i.e. Bill Cowher, Mike Martz, John Fox) are all too ***** whipped by the league to say how they really feel. I honestly hope Joey Porter never stops crying foul and he makes it his goal in life to expose Belicheat as the scumbag that he really is. Steeler fans, if not for cheating we aren't even having a discussion about the team of the decade. We all know the Steelers have been the dominant, consistant, and non-cheating team that rules the 2000s. With Ben and the rest of the boys that dominance will contnue into the 2010s and beyond while Belichick, brady, and the rest slowly descend into obscurity.

:tt04::tt02::tt::tt03:

SMR
02-04-2010, 04:40 PM
To top it all off, what better way for the Patriots/Marcia Brady-loving NFL jokers to bury the Steelers in the running for the team of the 2000's than to use the Steelers' own Cowher! How low can they go?? They use Cowher to "speak" for the NFL? This would only serve the Patriots well. I really do not like this at all. Makes me sick.

:mad:

T&B fan
02-04-2010, 04:40 PM
Nope, I disagree. Cowher still wants a coaching job and has to work with some of the key people involved (Belicheat and NFL commissioner & staff). So he has incentive to downplay this. Plus, he will come across as a sore loser if he even hints it wasn't a fair game.

But let's not forget:

Farrior and Porter both said the same defensive signals were used in that championship game as the regular season game
The Steelers were 15-1 and had the most dominant defense in the league ... yet got blown out at home
Players, such as Hines Ward, made comments prior to leaving the field that "it was like they knew our plays"
Belicheat couldn't coach his way out of a paper bag in Cleveland, yet he's a genius in New England? BS!


Also consider, if this wasn't a big edge why would Mangini act with such fervor to prevent Belicheat from using the first half spy film during the first matchup between the NYJ and NE?

Yes, the players still have to go out and make the plays. But when Tom Brady drops back to pass in the first quarter of the AFC Championship in Pittsburgh and launches a bomb for a touchdown, it's much easier when he already knows the safetys won't be covering the deep middle.

It's a basic fact that championships were stolen here and the league understands that they have to minimize this or it would leave a huge mark on its image.

:thumbsup:
and you can add .why do the Pats keep cheating if it did not help them year after year ???? :noidea:

T.Richardson
02-04-2010, 04:55 PM
eh.. I dont really think the Patriots cheated.

cheezheadsteeler
02-04-2010, 04:56 PM
The other stain on the Patriots claim is that they LOST a Superbowl during their so-called reign. You can't say the about the 70's Steelers, 80's Niners or 90's Cowboys.

SMR
02-04-2010, 04:59 PM
eh.. I dont really think the Patriots cheated.

You don't have to wait in line cuz there ain't one.

Sharkissle29
02-04-2010, 05:21 PM
lost a little respect for the butt chin

solardave
02-04-2010, 05:47 PM
I really hate to agree with that sentiment, but I think the chin is right on this one. The Pats really were a powerhouse throughout the decade, and whether you attribute that to coaching, quarterback play or a stout, veteran defense, I can't argue that they are the team of the decade.

The Steelers have been really good, but they've also been inconsistent. Look at the hangover years after the two Superbowl wins. We didn't make playoffs either year. The Colts are extremely consistent, but it's all about the harware in pro sports.

But God do I hate Tom Brady...

He forgot to say that WE DIDN'T CHEAT!!!!!!!

Edman
02-04-2010, 06:14 PM
The Patriots have Spygate.

The Steelers do not.

End of story.

SteelersMongol
02-04-2010, 08:01 PM
Coach Cowher, WTH R U talking about? NE didn't cheat because V did what sometimes? WTF have U been smoking?

lionslicer
02-04-2010, 08:46 PM
I hate the whole "the pats cheated" arguement... Even anounces on tv admit that every team cheats and scouts(tapes) other teams hand signals. Typically someone tapes it, and the players watch the film and then trash it. Patriots didn't trash the film, the kept it. They got caught with tons of film from teams just locked away somewhere in the patriots facility. Patriots not only cheated, they cheated like idiots. Its like if a student had a cheat sheet for a test, then just left it on their desk for the teacher to see :P
My teacher also knows a bunch of NFL players and says they do this all the time, and he used to do it for his team in college.

LVSteelersfan
02-04-2010, 09:10 PM
No matter if they cheated or not. Cowher was outcoached plain and simple in those AFC championship games. Ben wasn't ready in his first year. I hate the Patriots with a passion, but I think the whole cheating thing is pretty irrelevant in the whole scheme of things. Coaches are supposed to work on changing signals so stuff like that doesn't matter. Cowher obviously used the same old signals and scripted plays that Belicheat ate alive to start games. I am not a big Cowher fan by any stretch. His halftime adjustments absolutely sucked as far as I am concerned. That is more the reason why we lost to the Patsies. When Cowher finally changed the way they played and fooled the other playoff teams by starting out with a heavy passing attack, the Steelers finally won number five.

Sharkissle29
02-04-2010, 09:23 PM
No matter if they cheated or not. Cowher was outcoached plain and simple in those AFC championship games. Ben wasn't ready in his first year. I hate the Patriots with a passion, but I think the whole cheating thing is pretty irrelevant in the whole scheme of things. Coaches are supposed to work on changing signals so stuff like that doesn't matter. Cowher obviously used the same old signals and scripted plays that Belicheat ate alive to start games. I am not a big Cowher fan by any stretch. His halftime adjustments absolutely sucked as far as I am concerned. That is more the reason why we lost to the Patsies. When Cowher finally changed the way they played and fooled the other playoff teams by starting out with a heavy passing attack, the Steelers finally won number five.

well of course you're gonna get outcoached with tapes......:rofl:

SteelerEmpire
02-04-2010, 11:09 PM
This kind of stuff... turning a blind eye and "admitting" to rampant under-handness...along with many other stories of the like... puts the NFL on the same "gallows" as boxing... No one believes in it anymore... so its a class B sport now as a result. With all of this coming out.... the NFL is setting itself up for failure... I guess they think the people are too stupid to recognize it............. boxing sure did....

Steelstralia
02-05-2010, 12:27 AM
This is where I'm at as well. Especially after the relative whitewash the whole thing was given by Goodell - said "punishment" was a goddamn joke. Sure, let's slap a $500,000 fine on a billionaire - that'll show 'em. Call me a sore loser, I don't care. IMO, kirklandrules is correct in that Cowher has to remain PC over the whole thing if he still wishes to remain employed in some capacity with regards to the NFL. I don't. Fact remains they "won" 3 SBs by a FG a piece when they used, err, "questionable practices," yet they lost a SB by a FG to a HUGE underdog when they couldn't do so anymore. Proof's in the pudding.


Spot on. The Patriots weren't the best this year anyway and can only get worse, I hope the players still cringe over the thought of XLII, if anyone has OVERALL consistency it's the Steelers, and I reckon we are still on top too, One win under cowher who was with them for over a decade and Tomlin who's been with the steelers for only 2 years, and it'll be the same case with the Colts too, but we got records behind our wins, Youngest QB (XL) and Youngest Head Coach (XLIII), if anyone's going to remain dominant with SB's it'll be us, sure we have "hangover" seasons after the SB, but we rebuild and come out back on top. and i agree with those who say that cowher is only saying this to not sound like a sore loser.

scsteeler
02-05-2010, 09:02 AM
After the Patriots were caught cheating and they had to stop that little edge they had was gone and until they win in the fashion they won when getting those Super Bowls I will not say they were a better team. In this league that little edge they had is just enough for them to win the games they did win against the Steelers and other SB opponents.

So I will say they were good but if not for that little edge they had we would not be talking about the patriots as dynasty or team of the decade. (I am sure some will totally disagree with me)

steelax04
02-05-2010, 10:00 AM
If only the Patriots had Scott Norwood during their Super Bowls...

revefsreleets
02-05-2010, 10:45 AM
The apologists for NE continue to astound me.

The smoking gun to me will always be the fact that the NFL destroyed all the evidence. There is one, and only one, reason for doing so: They HAD to.

It means that the evidence was SO bad, and tainted the team SO badly that it would have called playoff games, championships, the integrity of the league and it's Super Bowl, the very game of professional football itself into question. The ripples from that rock thudding into the pond were very far reaching and the NFL had the choice of either dealing with the biggest scandal in the history of professional sports, stripping titles, changing outcomes of games, or burying everything and pretending everything was copacetic.

It was an easy choice, and I understand completely why they did as they did, but to blindly ignore what happened makes little sense to me.

scsteeler
02-05-2010, 11:06 AM
The apologists for NE continue to astound me.

The smoking gun to me will always be the fact that the NFL destroyed all the evidence. There is one, and only one, reason for doing so: They HAD to.

It means that the evidence was SO bad, and tainted the team SO badly that it would have called playoff games, championships, the integrity of the league and it's Super Bowl, the very game of professional football itself into question. The ripples from that rock thudding into the pond were very far reaching and the NFL had the choice of either dealing with the biggest scandal in the history of professional sports, stripping titles, changing outcomes of games, or burying everything and pretending everything was copacetic.

It was an easy choice, and I understand completely why they did as they did, but to blindly ignore what happened makes little sense to me.


:applaudit::applaudit::applaudit::applaudit:

I had a conversation with someone this morning about Great QB's and Teams and I stated that had it not been for the cheating the patriots and Baby Brady would not be talked about as the Great Team and QB that most give them credit for. Yes they were a good team but the greatness came from the spygate that in my mind that will taint those accomplishments.

Dino 6 Rings
02-05-2010, 11:38 AM
All I remember is 18-1 and the biggest upset in Super Bowl History.

Oh, and our 2 rings.

SMR
02-05-2010, 04:15 PM
The apologists for NE continue to astound me.

The smoking gun to me will always be the fact that the NFL destroyed all the evidence. There is one, and only one, reason for doing so: They HAD to.

It means that the evidence was SO bad, and tainted the team SO badly that it would have called playoff games, championships, the integrity of the league and it's Super Bowl, the very game of professional football itself into question. The ripples from that rock thudding into the pond were very far reaching and the NFL had the choice of either dealing with the biggest scandal in the history of professional sports, stripping titles, changing outcomes of games, or burying everything and pretending everything was copacetic.

It was an easy choice, and I understand completely why they did as they did, but to blindly ignore what happened makes little sense to me.

Dat's right buddy, EXACTLY! If the Patriots didn't cheat why in the world would Bill Bellicheat come out on tv and APOLOGIZE!!! He did exactly that!

D-U-H!!!!

lionslicer
02-05-2010, 04:52 PM
Dat's right buddy, EXACTLY! If the Patriots didn't cheat why in the world would Bill Bellicheat come out on tv and APOLOGIZE!!! He did exactly that!

D-U-H!!!!

NFL probably told him if he didn't they would suspend him from the NFL.
The NFL wants to promote good values and if they just let a Coach get away with cheating and not apologize, what is that saying to the kids? ... lol... they'd loose a lot of sponsers too...
again every team cheats, patriots just did it better and were stupid and got caught...

SMR
02-05-2010, 08:57 PM
NFL probably told him if he didn't they would suspend him from the NFL.

Probably? That's pretty weak. That's mere speculation on your part, it seems.

lionslicer
02-05-2010, 09:00 PM
Probably? That's pretty weak. That's mere speculation on your part, it seems.

Isn't that what all organizations do? they can't just screw him over, he brings in a lot of money with the Patriots. They had to make it seem like he was sorry, make it seem like it wasn't that bad. Thats why they destroyed the evidence before anyone could see it. They wanted it to go away fast so people would forget about it.

Its politics, plain and simple. It is speculation, but I have a reason to speculate it, I'm not just some pothead in his basement making shit up, thank you very much.

SMR
02-05-2010, 09:51 PM
Isn't that what all organizations do? they can't just screw him over, he brings in a lot of money with the Patriots. They had to make it seem like he was sorry, make it seem like it wasn't that bad. Thats why they destroyed the evidence before anyone could see it. They wanted it to go away fast so people would forget about it.

Its politics, plain and simple. It is speculation, but I have a reason to speculate it, I'm not just some pothead in his basement making shit up, thank you very much.

If the whole spying thing was not so bad there would be NO reason to destroy all of the evidence. LOL, pothead or not, you may have your reason to speculate about Belicheat's apology. I can understand that, but I would like to know what your speculation is based on. A source or two? Anything?

You provided nothing of the sort except a very vague answer as just "politics" and that is why I felt it was weak. I am not trying to put you down nor am I trying to patronize you, just hoping that you would fill me in about your reasoning. You are very welcome.
:drink:

revefsreleets
02-05-2010, 09:57 PM
Dat's right buddy, EXACTLY! If the Patriots didn't cheat why in the world would Bill Bellicheat come out on tv and APOLOGIZE!!! He did exactly that!

D-U-H!!!!

You post this tripe and have the audacity to PS it with a "D-U-H"?

I'm sorry (and I may be infracted for this, but it's worth it), but you're a blithering idiot. That's the stupidest thing posted on the board so far this year, and there have been a LOT of stupid thing posted here since 1/1/10.

SMR
02-05-2010, 10:04 PM
You post this tripe and have the audacity to PS it with a "D-U-H"?

I'm sorry (and I may be infracted for this, but it's worth it), but you're a blithering idiot. That's the stupidest thing posted on the board so far this year, and there have been a LOT of stupid thing posted here since 1/1/10.

Idiot?? How can that be?? The D-U-H was not directed at anyone at all. It was to point out that there wasn't any reason to apologize if he was innocent. I said DUH as in how obvious! If it looked like I was directing it to someone or basically calling someone stupid I apologize- that is not my intention. But you have no right to call me a "blithering idiot." If anything you are the idiot for jumping on me and saying that.

lionslicer
02-05-2010, 10:08 PM
If the whole spying thing was not so bad there would be NO reason to destroy all of the evidence. LOL, pothead or not, you may have your reason to speculate about Belicheat's apology. I can understand that, but I would like to know what your speculation is based on. A source or two? Anything?

You provided nothing of the sort except a very vague answer as just "politics" and that is why I felt it was weak. I am not trying to put you down nor am I trying to patronize you, just hoping that you would fill me in about your reasoning. You are very welcome.
:drink:

That is my reasoning... if you don't understand what politics is, then you don't have a reason to argue it... What am I gonna do, go get a hooker to have sex with Roger Goodell and take a knife and an threaten to cut off his snake and eggs until he tells everyone what really happened?

SMR
02-05-2010, 10:13 PM
That is my reasoning... if you don't understand what politics is, then you don't have a reason to argue it... What am I gonna do, go get a hooker to have sex with Roger Goodell and take a knife and an threaten to cut off his snake and eggs until he tells everyone what really happened?

I do understand politics very well, thank you kindly. You can go and cut off Goodell's snake yourself whether he spills the beans or not, lol.