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zulater
02-05-2010, 06:39 PM
http://www.heraldstandard.com/news_detail/article/1636/2010/february/02/roethlisberger-better-than-manning.html

By Dutch Wydo

It is undoubtedly a very small group that would take Pittsburgh Steelers quarterback Ben Roethlisberger to lead their team instead of Peyton Manning of the Indianapolis Colts. But even if you do fall into that select group, there is a good chance that you wonít admit it.

After all, admitting such a thing publicly would only invite ridicule. If you live in southwestern Pennsylvania, as I do, you would be considered a homer to state such an opinion. Your credibility would immediately be attacked. You could be chastised, mocked, publicly humiliated, and perhaps even spat upon for considering such argument.

Yet, through it all, the facts are clearly on your side. The following is a question-and-answer exchange I recently had with a Manning backer on this subject. Enjoy!

Manning Backer: You only want to talk about Ben having more rings up to this point. That doesnít tell the whole story. Ben having more rings has nothing to do with him being better than Manning. Canít you see this?

Dutch Wydo: Roethlisberger has one more Super Bowl victory up to this point because he out-performed Manning at Indianapolis in the 2005 playoffs. Roethlisberger came out throwing and put two early touchdowns on the board and staked his team to what turned out to be an insurmountable 14-point lead. That was the difference in the game and the reason why Ben has one more ring up to this point.

MB: Ok, How many rings do you think Manning would have if he was the quarterback of the Steelers this decade?

DW: Just one. I donít believe he could have won a Super Bowl behind the current offensive line of the Steelers.

MB: Cmon! Donít you see that Ben has been in a better situation in Pittsburgh?

DW: Incorrect. Roethlisberger won a Super Bowl with an undrafted free agent at running back. He was throwing to guys like Cedric Wilson and Antwaan Randle El. He even had a rookie tight end starting on that Ď05 team. This is hardly Edgerrin James, Marvin Harrison, Reggie Wayne, and Dallas Clark.

MB: Iím sorry, but you need to consider everything. Just look at the stats. What do the stats tell you?

DW: Iím sorry, but maybe you have not considered everything. What if Roethlisberger had played his home games in a dome? Ben has played seven indoor games and boasts a passer rating of 113. He has 14 TD passes against only five interceptions. Roethlisberger has completed 68 percent of his throws indoors at a majestic 9.4 yards per attempt. Unfortunately, he is stuck playing at Heinz Field and has to endure mud, rain, snow, and wind, along with a revolving set of receivers throughout most of his career. Yeah, great situation! Now, let me ask you a question. If you take both quarterbacks and have to choose one to play a road game, which one would you take?

MB: I think the answer is obvious. Iím taking Manning, as he is superior.

DW: Really? What evidence do you have to support that? Roethlisberger has a 91.6 career road passer rating. Manning has a 91.6 career road passer rating. Your perception that Manning is so superior simply does not equal reality, my friend.

MB: You just donít get it do you? Ben has had a great running game in place for most of his career.

DW: Edgerrin James rushed for more than 1,500 yards four times throughout his time with Manning and the Colts. Roethlisberger has never had a 1,500-yard running back.

MB: Defense, Defense, Defense, Dutch. Peyton would have won at least three Super Bowls with that Steeler defense. Címon! Canít you see this?

DW: In eight post season losses, Manningís offense averaged just 13 points per game. As to how many points his offense scored in each loss, here is the list: 16, 17, 0, 14, 3, 18, 24, 17. Now ask yourself a question. Was his defense really the problem? Even in two playoff losses to the Patriots and Jaguars, Roethlisbergerís offense was able to put 29 and 27 points, respectively, on the scoreboard.

MB: So you are trying to say that Ben is the reason they won their playoff games?

DW: Roethlisberger has the highest postseason third-down passer rating of 121.5 last five years. Should I credit Dick LeBeau for that? Besides, before this postseason started, Roethlisberger had a better passer rating, more yards per attempt, and a higher completion percentage in the postseason than Manning. You clearly underrate Roethlisberger.

MB: Are you trying to say the Colts defense has been better than the Steelers defense?

DW: No. But Indianapolisí defense has been the beneficiary of 210 turnovers since 2003. The Steelers defense has collected 190. The Colts are 16-3 over last three seasons when their defense gets two turnovers. The Steelers are 10-4. Getting defensive turnovers can be quite helpful to a quarterback as they will get short fields to work with and convert them into quick scores. This year, the New Orleans Saints averaged 11 points per game off turnovers. The Steelers cornerbacks didnít have an interception until the final week of the regular season. In fact, the Steelers offense this season projected to score 23.8 points per game based on yards and turnover differential. A lack of defensive turnovers and consistently poor special teams held back a Steeler offense averaging 6.2 yards per play, more than anything else.

MB: Go ask NFL coaches who they would rather have, Peyton Manning or Ben.

DW: Go ask NFL coaches who they would rather have, Jeff Hartwig or Jeff Saturday?

MB: Dutch, look at how Pierre Garcon has played at wide feceiver this season for the Colts. Donít you see that is because of Peyton Manning? Peyton Manning makes wide receivers.

DW: Considering the success that Steelers receiver Mike Wallace had this year, the success that Heath Miller had as a rookie, not to mention the performance Santonio Holmes had the last half of 2006. I guess that means Roethlisberger makes wide receivers, too. Also note that Nate Washington averaged 16 yards per reception with Roethlisberger as his quarterback. The averaged fell to twelve per reception this season with the Tennessee Titans. Again, Roethlisberger makes wide receivers.

MB: I think most would agree that Manning is perhaps the greatest quarterback of all time.

DW: To be the best of all time, then you would have to project to be the best in previous generations. Considering that Manningís offense is built around great timing with his receivers, Iím not convinced he would have able to achieve so much success, say, in the 1970s when his receivers would have had their heads taken off and he was forced to scramble around and make plays. That is not his game. In fact, it wasnít until Colts General Manager Bill Polian convinced the NFL in 2004 to strictly enforce the five-yard chuck rule so that his boy could get through the playoffs. Roethlisberger is great right now and would have been great in the 1960s or 1970s.

MB: Look at how Manning attacked the Jets backup cornerback when they lost their starting corner to injury. Manning is a student of the game.

DW: Of course. Manning is the only quarterback in the NFL that has the wisdom to immediately go after a back up corner who just came into the game. Heís a genius.

MB: Who do you like in the Super Bowl?

DW: Colts 38-24. It's all about Manning!

Dutch is a sports talk host on wmbs590 radio saturday mornings 9-10 am. You can email Dutch at smartmonies@gmail.com

steelerdude15
02-05-2010, 06:52 PM
I'm sorry, but as much as I love Ben... Peyton is the best to ever play. He's certainly the smartest, he can easily read defenses and also adjust when he has to. Peyton plays smart football, I'm not saying Ben doesn't, but look at the experience as well. Ben has only been around since 2004 and Peyton has been around since 1998. IMO, Ben wouldn't fit as a Colt and Peyton wouldn't fit as a Steeler. I believe that Ben is better out in the weather conditions compared to Peyton, but Peyton can play better. Ben is a great QB who makes plays, is around a great team, can throw the ball, can scramble, just like Peyton, but Peyton can read things faster. Ben is a tougher guy IMO.

fansince'76
02-05-2010, 07:04 PM
As much as I like Ben, Peyton is the best QB in the game.

LamarrWoodleysFade
02-05-2010, 07:31 PM
I love Ben, but it should be unfair for Peyton Manning to play quarterback, like, really lol. If he gets another ring on Sunday, he's the GOAT in my eyes.

Ben might be on his way to that level, but until then, Manning is the best...

tony hipchest
02-05-2010, 08:14 PM
ive been a huge manning and favre fan long before ben came along. ben still has room for improvement, to be called better than manning (and as favre proved last year, its never too late to get better) however the argument posted above is a compelling one.

JEFF4i
02-05-2010, 08:17 PM
I've said it once, I'll say it again.

I choose Ben.

GridironWarrior
02-05-2010, 08:18 PM
No Peyton is the best QB. Ben needs to hit the books like Peyton. It also helps that Peyton has a coordinator that knows what he's doing.

Tooquickrich
02-05-2010, 08:20 PM
I'll admit that Manning is a great QB, and probably the best REGULAR season QB of all time.

But as far as the best QB of all time?

I'll take Brady over Manning in the playoffs any day.

RoethlisBURGHer
02-05-2010, 08:39 PM
Ben Roethlisberger is the best football player at the quarterback position.

Peyton Manning is the best quarterback in the league.

However, put Ben behind the Colts offensive line, and give him the roughing calls that Manning gets (which help him not getting hit, defensive players don't want 15 yards tacked on), and I think Big Ben would put up similar if not better numbers than Manning,

Put Manning behind Ben's offensive line and he's on IR by week five at the latest.

Vincent
02-05-2010, 08:40 PM
Ben Roethlisberger is the best football player at the quarterback position.

Peyton Manning is the best quarterback in the league.

However, put Ben behind the Colts offensive line, and give him the roughing calls that Manning gets (which help him not getting hit, defensive players don't want 15 yards tacked on), and I think Big Ben would put up similar if not better numbers than Manning,

Put Manning behind Ben's offensive line and he's on IR by week five at the latest.

Yep!!

The writer makes points that over ride our myopic views of Ben. Ben was OROY. Ben won more games in his 1st 5 years than anybody else in history. He has 2 rings. He's been in 3 AFCCGs in his 6 year career and won 2. He's 8-2 in playoffs. Hello?! Manning is something opposite. Ben's 1-0 against Manning in playoffs. And Manning threw his OL under the bus in that post game - "We had protection problems all day".

I criticize Ben when he stinks the place up. He's our QB. We're fans. That's our job.

Ben's like Brad. With money on the line, roll with them. The throw that won 6 last year? Manning wouldn't have even thrown that one.

I wouldn't trade Ben for both Mannings. And I do respect the Mannings.

This isn't even close people. :rofl:

Eric_PolaMELO
02-05-2010, 09:05 PM
Ben is better then Manning due to the fact that Ben has 2 Rings, and Manning has 1. Manning won it in his 8th year, Ben won it in his second year. Yeah Manning has more touchdowns and better statistics, but you play football to win Championships. And right now Big Ben is leading in that Column. I would never trade Ben for any one, Not Manning, Not Brady. NO ONE!

lionslicer
02-05-2010, 09:22 PM
Ben can play with a really shitty line and throw for 4000 yards and 20+ touchdowns.
Peyton has always has a really good line, and when he's forced to run, he can't pass... Thats pretty much the only thing Ben beats Peyton on... and maybe arm strength and deep ball acuracy... Peyton over/underthrows recievers more than Ben.

Merchant
02-05-2010, 09:49 PM
Manning is better. no question. If he wins Sunday I'll probably even say he's the greatest of all time.

However. despite knowing all of this.. I would NEVER trade Ben for anyone else. He is our quarterback.

zulater
02-05-2010, 11:16 PM
I posted it, but I don't agree with it. I think some good points were made in Ben's favor. He has been a very good post season qb to date, and he's certainly a winner.

But win or lose this Sunday, I think Peyton's on the short list of best qb's ever. And while I think Ben's on the fast track to Canton, I just don't see him in on the discussion for best ever. Maybe some day, but certainly not yet.

zulater
02-05-2010, 11:17 PM
Ben can play with a really shitty line and throw for 4000 yards and 20+ touchdowns.
Peyton has always has a really good line, and when he's forced to run, he can't pass... Thats pretty much the only thing Ben beats Peyton on... and maybe arm strength and deep ball acuracy... Peyton over/underthrows recievers more than Ben.

Really? Could have fooled me. :noidea:

LamarrWoodleysFade
02-06-2010, 03:46 AM
Ben is better then Manning due to the fact that Ben has 2 Rings, and Manning has 1. Manning won it in his 8th year, Ben won it in his second year. Yeah Manning has more touchdowns and better statistics, but you play football to win Championships. And right now Big Ben is leading in that Column. I would never trade Ben for any one, Not Manning, Not Brady. NO ONE!

I really hate how Championships are a "measuring stick" of sorts when determining who's a better player. The argument isn't always a valid one...

Aussie_steeler
02-06-2010, 03:54 AM
QB vs QB - sorry but Peyton Manning wins hands down.

Yes we can be homers and say that Ben has more SB rings but get real... Manning is better than Ben.
we dont need ring counts, MVP counts or probowl counts to settle the argument.

solardave
02-06-2010, 04:28 AM
No Peyton is the best QB. Ben needs to hit the books like Peyton. It also helps that Peyton has a coordinator that knows what he's doing.

Tom Moore is an under rated OC. They built a team around Manning on offense. Our FO puts up a less than stellar O line. Manning has had the same people through out his career. All this being said, Ben needs to study more and learn to take what he can get. A better line and quick decisions and then we're talking about who is better. IMHO

Galax Steeler
02-06-2010, 06:20 AM
Payton has always had a good line and some real good receivers Ben has not. Ben has gotten better and we have gotten some better receivers. So as of now I would take Ben over Payton.

Psyychoward86
02-06-2010, 07:59 AM
i flat out lol when people say Peyton is the best of all time.

Psyychoward86
02-06-2010, 08:00 AM
Ben is better then Manning due to the fact that Ben has 2 Rings, and Manning has 1. Manning won it in his 8th year, Ben won it in his second year. Yeah Manning has more touchdowns and better statistics, but you play football to win Championships. And right now Big Ben is leading in that Column. I would never trade Ben for any one, Not Manning, Not Brady. NO ONE!

Please dont do this.


Trent Dilfer > Dan Marino?????

supa_fly_steeler
02-06-2010, 08:07 AM
Lol.

On football-freaks.com the Patriot Fans and Cowboys fans think Ben Roethlisberget the most overrated quarterback in the nfl.com

some wonder why people don't further their education for intelligence.

VTsteel
02-06-2010, 08:38 AM
Ben > Peyton.

Manning would've crumbled behind our o-line.

Nadroj 20
02-06-2010, 08:41 AM
i flat out lol when people say Peyton is the best of all time.

Why is that? Especially if he wins sunday you dont think he should be mentioned as one of the best if not the best?

Nadroj 20
02-06-2010, 08:42 AM
Manning is better. no question. If he wins Sunday I'll probably even say he's the greatest of all time.

However. despite knowing all of this.. I would NEVER trade Ben for anyone else. He is our quarterback.

These are my feeling exactly i completely agree with this Merchant :thumbsup:

Even with thinking manning is better i wouldnt want to give up Ben after everything he has done for us, he is indeed OUR quarterback.

SMR
02-06-2010, 09:52 AM
Man, oh man, I would just love to be able to see what would happen if Big Ben and Peyton switched teams just for one year.

Imagine the results!!

:chuckle:

Psyychoward86
02-06-2010, 10:03 AM
Why is that? Especially if he wins sunday you dont think he should be mentioned as one of the best if not the best?

He's up there some where. Johnny U, Joe Montana, Otto Graham, and Bart Starr are better imo.

zulater
02-06-2010, 10:24 AM
Ben > Peyton.

Manning would've crumbled behind our o-line.

Our o-line wouldn't give up so many sacks with Manning behind them. imo

I'm not saying Ben's to blame for a majority of the sacks the Steelers give up. But Peyton's clearly is a guy who's release, and ability to quickly read a defense greatly aids his offensive line.

The Colts gave up 10 sacks this season. With Ben my guess is that total goes up somewhere to the mid to high 20's. Conversly switch qb's and I'd guess that the 50 sacks allowed by the Steelers goes down to the high 20's low 30 range.

No way to prove it, just my theory. :hatsoff:

Psyychoward86
02-06-2010, 10:43 AM
Ben > Peyton.

Manning would've crumbled behind our o-line.

Man, oh man, I would just love to be able to see what would happen if Big Ben and Peyton switched teams just for one year.

Imagine the results!!

:chuckle:



I dont think some people get it. Peyton has a great pass-blocking o-line. But he makes it look better than it really is. Peyton has arguably the best quick release in the league, and he's also the best BY FAR at making adjustments at the line of scrimmage. That combination of skill allows Peyton to run his passing attack like some kind of machine. It's nuts, and it really, really, neutralizes those pass rushes that people throw at him. Peyton probably wouldnt have a huge drop off behind our o-line. Im sure the league's cerebral quarterback can make our o-line look better at pass blocking than it really is too.

tyler289
02-06-2010, 10:56 AM
lol, Ben's not even close to Peyton.

PalmerSteel
02-06-2010, 11:26 AM
ben is great and wouldnt want no one else, BUT, playing qb is all about how to read, react, and how fast you can make adjutsments for improvements. manning is the best at all time, and its not even close, at making adjutsments from one play to the next. he is top 10 with his athletic ability but his brain and leadership puts him as the best of all time, IF he gets a 2nd championship, at the least. ben fits us perfectly though and is on pace to become the best steelers qb of all time, and thats saying alot with bradshaw in the top 10 of all time.

Psyychoward86
02-06-2010, 11:37 AM
he is top 10 with his athletic ability

lol

PalmerSteel
02-06-2010, 11:45 AM
lol


i consider throwing with velocity and accuracy count just as much when judging someone's athletic ability as someone who can run fast but cant hit the blind side of a barn (IE slash stewart)

supa_fly_steeler
02-06-2010, 12:13 PM
according to playoff statistics michael vick in playoffs has a higher completion percentage than peyton manning.

vick only threw 15 times a game against the eagles and ect but completed at least 76% of his passes.

who cares who has the most rings this is the best quarterback not winningest, id rather have a ben on my team but manning is undeniable amazing quarterback.

It's a shame Brady broke his record by cheating. scumbag

Psyychoward86
02-06-2010, 12:18 PM
i consider throwing with velocity and accuracy count just as much when judging someone's athletic ability as someone who can run fast but cant hit the blind side of a barn (IE slash stewart)

yeah i guess.

smokin3000gt
02-06-2010, 01:06 PM
Manning is the better QB but he also has a lot more time and experience in the league than Big Ben. I don't think Ben has peaked yet and will get better each year (as long as he can stay off the ground).

Prok
02-06-2010, 02:26 PM
I'd LOVE to see Big Ben get the chance to run the scheme that Peyton does.

Can't compare em' as Ben was in a smashmouth system his first few years and didn't get the chance to learn by slinging it around ala Peyton.

Give Ben that no-huddle that the Colts run? We're just as dominant on offense IMO.

Give Peyton our scheme and protection? He's Drew Bledsoe.

steelpride12
02-06-2010, 03:38 PM
Well it's hard to complain and of course I would pick Ben over Peyton, but Manning is a better overall QB and his stats don't lie.
Ben has 1 ring more than Peyton, but overall Manning is a better schemer, performer. Again another topic of discussion is the OL that protects Manning. They are a top ten line where the Steelers is a bottom half line so keep that in mind as well.

Psyychoward86
02-06-2010, 04:08 PM
1) Can't compare em' as Ben was in a smashmouth system his first few years and didn't get the chance to learn by slinging it around ala Peyton.

2) Give Ben that no-huddle that the Colts run? We're just as dominant on offense IMO.

3) Give Peyton our scheme and protection? He's Drew Bledsoe.


1) that's because he wasn't ready to take the reigns of our offense, and we had a sharp running game to bail him out. Peyton had Marshall Faulk with him his rookie year. Same situation, yet Peyton threw the ball 575 times his rookie year because he was better prepared for the oppurtunity and Marshall was a great 3rd down back for a rookie QB to work with.

2) We do run the no huddle all the time. And it's pretty successful, but no, it's not as dominant.

3) No he's not, Peyton is exponentially better than that scum in every facet of football. Peyton has the greatest quick release and the best ability in the league to read defenses and use that knowledge to change the play/ make adjustments for his blocking before the snap.

Gnutella
02-07-2010, 03:39 PM
Peyton Manning

Better than Ben Roethlisberger currently? Yes.
The smartest QB in the NFL? Yes.
The best QB in the NFL in 2009? Maybe.
The best QB in the NFL this past decade? Maybe.
The best QB of all time? No.

zulater
02-07-2010, 08:43 PM
Anyone want to change their mind?:chuckle:

Edman
02-07-2010, 08:49 PM
In XLIII, Down 3, Big Ben leads the Steelers down the field for the win.

In XLIV, Down 7, Peyton throws a pick-6 in Saints Territory.

When the chips were down, Ben was clutch. Tonight was Peyton's big chance to show why he the best of his generation, to go into the annals of time with the all time champion QB's, and he folded.

stillers4me
02-07-2010, 08:50 PM
Peyton puked tonight.

I'm glad the Saints won...but that was a boring Superbowl.

LamarrWoodleysFade
02-07-2010, 08:50 PM
Uh, and that means what exactly?

I love my quarterback too but good Lord...

AllD
02-07-2010, 08:52 PM
Manning is a fantasy football god. Too bad if you hit him he folds like a paper bag.

HometownGal
02-07-2010, 09:08 PM
As far as mentally staying in a game this important and being the definition of the word "leader", I'd have to take Ben over Peytoon. As far as a stat-a-maniac, Peytoon gets the nod. Not saying that Peytoon isn't a great QB because he is - he just seems to turtle up when pressured which causes him to make mistakes like the HUGE one he made late in the 4Q with that pick 6.

LamarrWoodleysFade
02-07-2010, 09:13 PM
^Wayne half-assed that route, though. That wasn't totally on Peyton.

And Peyton isn't a leader now...?

HometownGal
02-07-2010, 09:18 PM
And Peyton isn't a leader now...?

Don't put words in my mouth, please. I didn't say that. I simply said that Ben is the "true definition" of a leader in every aspect. I saw Peytoon yapping at several of his receivers tonight and his frustration was evident throughout the game. I don't ever recall Ben being that animated or pointing fingers at his guys. Peytoon did the same thing in the Colts/Steelers playoff game several years back.

zulater
02-07-2010, 09:21 PM
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/M/MannPe00/gamelog/#stats_playoffs

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/R/RoetBe00/gamelog/#stats_playoffs

stillers4me
02-07-2010, 09:21 PM
Don't put words in my mouth, please. I didn't say that. I simply said that Ben is the "true definition" of a leader in every aspect. I saw Peytoon yapping at several of his receivers tonight and his frustration was evident throughout the game. I don't ever recall Ben being that animated or pointing fingers at his guys. Peytoon did the same thing in the Colts/Steelers playoff game several years back.

Pout-in, I mean Peyton (:chuckle:) has always acted like that and that's why I can never root for him. Did you see the way he acted when the kicker missed the firld goal. I've never seen Ben do that. I wouldn't want to read his mind sometimes, but he never lets it show.

msafford
02-07-2010, 09:23 PM
I look at it this way....it takes 2 Mannings to equal 1 Roethlisberger. :tt04::tt04::tt04:

zulater
02-07-2010, 09:24 PM
Pout-in, I mean Peyton (:chuckle:) has always acted like that and that's why I can never root for him. Did you see the way he acted when the kicker missed the firld goal. I've never seen Ben do that. I wouldn't want to read his mind sometimes, but he never lets it show.

I couldn't believe they even put Stover on the field to attempt that kick. He hasn't had the leg from that range for a couple years now. They should have tried to punt them inside the 10.

Nadroj 20
02-07-2010, 09:25 PM
I couldn't believe they even put Stover on the field to attempt that kick. He hasn't had the leg from that range for a couple years now. They should have tried to punt them inside the 10.

He had the leg it was wide right tho, it wasnt the worse decison in the world i dont think.

Vincent
02-07-2010, 09:27 PM
Well, Peyton Manning certainly showed everybody tonight, didn't he. Well, didn't he?

So much for this thread.

http://www.nait.ca/blogs/cerebraldischarge/files/2008/10/fork1.jpg

boggedmaffus
02-07-2010, 09:30 PM
This is my first ever post; I'm a UK Steeler fan and I've waited for us to suck a little bit so I can't be accused of being a glory fan :D

Equal implies the same IMO. Therefore Ben is NOT equal to Peyton, or even Drew, he'll never work in 4 or 5-wide sets with the running game only there to set up the pass. We had three very good running backs this year so should have looked to run the ball a hell of a lot more than we did. Mewelde Moore is one of THE most underrated NFL backs. If we can get back to run-first next year then with Mike Wallace and Santonio we can dominate in the AFCN.

zulater
02-07-2010, 09:36 PM
He had the leg it was wide right tho, it wasnt the worse decison in the world i dont think.

Stover hasn't kicked a fg of 50 yards or longer since 2006. He's made all of one fg over 50 yards since the start of the 2005 season.

It was a poor desicion by Caldwell to try that kick period.

Nadroj 20
02-07-2010, 09:44 PM
Stover hasn't kicked a fg of 50 yards or longer since 2006. He's made all of one fg over 50 yards since the start of the 2005 season.

It was a poor desicion by Caldwell to try that kick period.

Lol ok....

Caldwell had those stats on his clipboard and ignored them! Man hes dumb :chuckle:

StainlessStill
02-07-2010, 09:55 PM
I can go on about this ALL DAY so I'm just throwing my .2cents in.

GIVE ME ROETHLISBERGER ANY DAY OF THE WEEK!!!!!!!

That is all.

LamarrWoodleysFade
02-07-2010, 09:58 PM
Don't put words in my mouth, please. I didn't say that. I simply said that Ben is the "true definition" of a leader in every aspect. I saw Peytoon yapping at several of his receivers tonight and his frustration was evident throughout the game. I don't ever recall Ben being that animated or pointing fingers at his guys. Peytoon did the same thing in the Colts/Steelers playoff game several years back.

Different players lead in different ways. The "true definition" of a leader is somebody who can uplift his guys and get the best out of them. Just because he's "animated" doesn't mean he's not a "true" leader. I mean, you all are acting like he's not allowed to show emotion on the sideline. Give me a break, please.

Some of you need to take Ben off this pedestal. Didn't it just come out that he JUST earned the respect of his teammates, or something to that effect?

zulater
02-07-2010, 10:01 PM
Lol ok....

Caldwell had those stats on his clipboard and ignored them! Man hes dumb :chuckle:

If he didn't he should have. Ask yourself this if Stover was still an elite kicker why did the Ravens dump him? ( even though they shouldn't have) Why was he available to the Colts when Adam Viniteri went down with injury during the course of the season? The guy's money 50 yards in, but he similiar to our own Jeff Reed he's not a guy you want kicking it over 50 yards.

Fire Haley
02-07-2010, 10:24 PM
The legacy of 'Manning the Choker' returns.

I'm pleased with the results.

casteeler
02-07-2010, 10:30 PM
Anyone still have manning over ben? Now maybe people will put Big Ben up there w/ fold like a lawn chair brady and payton" choke artist" manning! Who has 2 rings in 5 yrs..... well w/o cheating!

mikegrimey
02-08-2010, 02:37 AM
Manning definitely has the better mechanics than Ben, but like a lot of people have mentioned, Ben has shown he can be clutch in the msot important games of the year, while Manning is one of the biggest choke artists in NFL history, and its not fun for me to say that because he really is an elite athlete and just an all around gamer.
I think Ben is somewhat more sporatic and prone to boneheadedness in the regular season, but typically has his act together for the playoffs, Manning seems to be the exact opposite

Short take---Manning is the best regular season QB of all time, he'll have better numbers than Ben when he retires and will have more longevity because he (wisely) recognizes that he's the most valuable part of his team and avoids contact. He's probably going to own every passing record before he's done and may or may not win another championship, I honestly don't see him doing it without a more legit running attack (like they had when they beat chicago and manning was awarded the SB mvp just because he's a likeable guy and the media loves him)

Ben will always be more clutch than Manning, but he'll always carry the stigma around of being on the Steelers who typically have a "dominant" defense and strong running game (even if that hasn't always been the case during Ben's career with us, i'm just saying the stereotyping that gets thrown around) so a lot of people are going to try and credit his success to being part of a system.

Also, I think Ben is going to get a Steve Young special one day and will be forced into an early retirement, for better or worse, thats just the way he plays the game, that longevity factor will hurt him when being compared to Manning, who could play forever without the lack of punishment he takes.

mikegrimey
02-08-2010, 02:51 AM
Don't put words in my mouth, please. I didn't say that. I simply said that Ben is the "true definition" of a leader in every aspect. I saw Peytoon yapping at several of his receivers tonight and his frustration was evident throughout the game. I don't ever recall Ben being that animated or pointing fingers at his guys. Peytoon did the same thing in the Colts/Steelers playoff game several years back.

Didn't it come out that he blew up at the offensive line in Wk 4 against the Ravens during the 2008 season? I think it was at halftime.

I also remember Ben himself saying something about chewing Wallace out during the GB game.

I'm not saying all these, or any of these things are negative, but wow, fantasize about Ben much? He's the true definition of a leader?
I think, purely speculation fo course since i'm not privy to insider info, that he's become a legit leader on the team the last two or three seasons, but you're talking like everyone should model their behavior after him while Peyton is a well established and respected leader of his team.

Nadroj 20
02-08-2010, 07:35 AM
If he didn't he should have. Ask yourself this if Stover was still an elite kicker why did the Ravens dump him? ( even though they shouldn't have) Why was he available to the Colts when Adam Viniteri went down with injury during the course of the season? The guy's money 50 yards in, but he similiar to our own Jeff Reed he's not a guy you want kicking it over 50 yards.

I understand what your saying but if he would have made it there's not even a discussion about it is what I'm pretty much saying.....all I mean is that in the situation they were in deciding to try for 3 when they were up by 1 wasn't the worse thing to try to do...and he almost got it even if it was 50+




But I do understand your logic fact is he missed and now all we can do is decide weather the call was ok :thumbsup:

HometownGal
02-08-2010, 07:43 AM
Didn't it come out that he blew up at the offensive line in Wk 4 against the Ravens during the 2008 season? I think it was at halftime.

I also remember Ben himself saying something about chewing Wallace out during the GB game.

I'm not saying all these, or any of these things are negative, but wow, fantasize about Ben much? He's the true definition of a leader?
I think, purely speculation fo course since i'm not privy to insider info, that he's become a legit leader on the team the last two or three seasons, but you're talking like everyone should model their behavior after him while Peyton is a well established and respected leader of his team.

What's this shit about me "fantasizing" about Ben? If you don't like my opinion - fine, but don't throw something like that at me. Ben isn't perfect, but on the field, he conducts himself as a professional.

Whether he exhibited those behaviors or not - he did so OFF the field or on the sideline. Peytoon has a history of pointing fingers and shaking his oversized melon at his receivers while he is walking towards his sideline.

And yes - imho - I feel Ben has evolved into a TRUE LEADER and I'd take him any day of the week and twice on Sundays over Peytoon. Period.

PalmerSteel
02-08-2010, 08:43 AM
What's this shit about me "fantasizing" about Ben? If you don't like my opinion - fine, but don't throw something like that at me. Ben isn't perfect, but on the field, he conducts himself as a professional.

Whether he exhibited those behaviors or not - he did so OFF the field or on the sideline. Peytoon has a history of pointing fingers and shaking his oversized melon at his receivers while he is walking towards his sideline.

And yes - imho - I feel Ben has evolved into a TRUE LEADER and I'd take him any day of the week and twice on Sundays over Peytoon. Period.

i agree HTG. i still remember it clearly that when the steelers beat the colts in 2006, peyton said in his news conference AFTER the game, they had offensive line issues. wether true ornot, a qb shouldnt ever say those things AFTER the game is over to the press. during the game, doing your thing leading and getting after teammates is a whole different story. that is one of peytons downfalls

Dino 6 Rings
02-08-2010, 08:47 AM
Lets see

Manning 1-1 in the SB

Roethlisberger 2-0 in the SB

El-Gonzo Jackson
02-08-2010, 10:29 AM
i flat out lol when people say Peyton is the best of all time.

Yes, I think its a lot of NFL analysts and sportswriters that have him in that group. I think Johnny U, Montana, Sammy Baugh, Favre, Manning, Marino all get in that conversation.

Prok
02-08-2010, 11:40 AM
What's this shit about me "fantasizing" about Ben? If you don't like my opinion - fine, but don't throw something like that at me. Ben isn't perfect, but on the field, he conducts himself as a professional.

Whether he exhibited those behaviors or not - he did so OFF the field or on the sideline. Peytoon has a history of pointing fingers and shaking his oversized melon at his receivers while he is walking towards his sideline.

And yes - imho - I feel Ben has evolved into a TRUE LEADER and I'd take him any day of the week and twice on Sundays over Peytoon. Period.

Was reading other fan sites this AM and not one single mention of Ben being in Brady or Manning's league. It's all about those 2 and their legacy's...

WTF gives ?? I guess since they were in the league longer ??

Watch 5 yrs from now how many ppl jump on Ben's bandwagon.
:tt:

VTsteel
02-08-2010, 01:47 PM
Ben > Peyton.

Manning would've crumbled behind our o-line.

Like I said Ben > Peyton

I don't care if you throw for 5 million yards and have beautiful reads and wonderful mechanics . . . You play to win Superbowls.

mikegrimey
02-08-2010, 02:31 PM
What's this shit about me "fantasizing" about Ben? If you don't like my opinion - fine, but don't throw something like that at me. Ben isn't perfect, but on the field, he conducts himself as a professional.

Whether he exhibited those behaviors or not - he did so OFF the field or on the sideline. Peytoon has a history of pointing fingers and shaking his oversized melon at his receivers while he is walking towards his sideline.

And yes - imho - I feel Ben has evolved into a TRUE LEADER and I'd take him any day of the week and twice on Sundays over Peytoon. Period.

So it's okay with you that ben goes ballistic at halftime in the lockeroom but not that Manning gets in his receivers during the game so they can win?

It's not that don't 'like' your opinion, it's that you're simply not practical and prodding any excuse you can to trump Ben as a true role model. You make it sound like he's the only nfl player to be a leader, or that he's never gotten into somebody during the course of the game.

I see nothing wrong with Manning getting a hold of his receivers during a game, when you're the leader of the team, it's your job to motivate the guys and get them all in line, should the Sergeants and Officers let their soldiers run willy nilly during the course of a battle? Should they be conscious of whether or not its in front of a camera? Absolutley not.

zulater
02-09-2010, 12:45 AM
http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/sports/steelers/s_666248.html

Harris: When it counts, Manning bows to Ben

All things being equal, give me No. 7.

In the NFL's biggest game, on its grandest stage, I'll take Steelers quarterback Ben Roethlisberger over Indianapolis Colts' wunderkind Peyton Manning to win a Super Bowl.

The Colts' 31-17 loss to New Orleans in Super Bowl XLIV, in which Manning was statistically brilliant but flawed in the clutch, highlighted critical differences between two iconic players who are successful despite wildly contrasting styles.

Manning has few peers in regards to family pedigree and gaudy statistics. His father, Archie, was a star quarterback with the Saints before the team's current quarterback, Drew Brees, was born. Younger brother Eli was the MVP of Super Bowl XLII with the New York Giants.

Peyton is the only player in league history to win four MVPs. He has passed for 4,000 yards in a season a record 10 times.

Roethlisberger's next league MVP will be his first. He topped the 4,000-yard milestone for the first time this season

Roethlisberger didn't grow up with a silver spoon in his mouth. In fact, he didn't play quarterback until his senior year in high school. He attended Miami -- Miami University, not the "U" in South Florida, which is famous for churning out NFL stars.

Here's the catch. Manning, the so-called greatest quarterback in league history -- as he was portrayed by fawning members of the national media leading up to Super Bowl XLIV -- isn't even the best quarterback in Super Bowl history.

Manning is 1-1 in Super Bowls. He was named MVP in the Colts' win over Chicago in Super Bowl XLI. He is among a large number of quarterbacks with one Super Bowl victory -- Brad Johnson, Trent Dilfer and Jeff Hostetler included. Winning one Super Bowl is big, but many quarterbacks -- far less accomplished than Manning -- have done that.

Roethlisberger is 2-0 in Super Bowls. He's on a much shorter list of quarterbacks with at least two Super Bowl victories without a loss., a list that includes Terry Bradshaw (4-0), Joe Montana (4-0), Troy Aikman (3-0), Bart Starr (2-0) and Jim Plunkett (2-0) -- and he's the only active quarterback to do so.

Roethlisberger is also 0-2 in winning Super Bowl MVPs -- but that's a credit to teammate Santonio Holmes, who was brilliant with nine receptions for 131 yards and the game-winning touchdown catch against Arizona in Super Bowl XLIII.

Roethlisberger did as much to help the Steelers win Super Bowl XLIII as Manning did to help the Colts win Super Bowl XLI, but only Manning was named MVP.

Manning, known for his pinpoint accuracy, never threw a better pass under pressure than the one Roethlisberger completed to Holmes in the closing minute of Super Bowl XLIII. Roethlisberger's innate ability to execute comfortably under duress is what makes him special in big games.

To Roethlisberger, playing football is all in the backyard. It's a game he plays exceedingly well -- sometimes, by his own rules.

Roethlisberger throws on the run, throws off his back foot, throws across his body and throws into coverage. At times, he's a bulked-up version of Fran Tarkenton, scrambling to elude potential tacklers while buying time for his receivers to get open.

Unlike Manning, Roethlisberger rarely gives up on a play.

Manning, on the other hand, plays quarterback by the book, sometimes to his detriment.

New Orleans cornerback Tracy Porter said knowing Manning's tendencies helped him on a 74-yard interception return for a touchdown in the fourth quarter.

One of Roethlisberger's best qualities is his ability to shake off a mistake and focus on the next play. A bad throw in a big game doesn't diminish his aggressiveness.

Roethlisberger, who's 8-2 in the postseason, saved his best for the last drive against Arizona in the Super Bowl. Before that drive, his performance had been average.

Manning, whose career playoff record is only 9-9, failed once again to shake his nagging reputation for being a sensational regular-season quarterback who's mediocre at best in the postseason.

If, on the other hand, you prefer a quarterback who excels during crunch time and wins big games, Roethlisberger's track record gives him the edge over Manning, who's been touted by some as the greatest passer ever.

HometownGal
02-09-2010, 04:59 AM
So it's okay with you that ben goes ballistic at halftime in the lockeroom but not that Manning gets in his receivers during the game so they can win?

It's not that don't 'like' your opinion, it's that you're simply not practical and prodding any excuse you can to trump Ben as a true role model. You make it sound like he's the only nfl player to be a leader, or that he's never gotten into somebody during the course of the game.

I see nothing wrong with Manning getting a hold of his receivers during a game, when you're the leader of the team, it's your job to motivate the guys and get them all in line, should the Sergeants and Officers let their soldiers run willy nilly during the course of a battle? Should they be conscious of whether or not its in front of a camera? Absolutley not.

How many times have you seen or read that Manning has ever taken responsibility for playing a bad game (which he certainly has over his 12 year career)? Ben at least mans up and takes responsibility when he's not played up to par instead of pointing fingers at his receivers and sulking on the sidelines. How often do you see Manning brainstorming and reviewing plays with his OC and offensive unit on the sidelines or congratulate his line and/or members of his unit after making a good play? I've seen Ben do this many times since he's worn the B & G and all of these things just add to what I believe makes Ben a true leader.

stillers4me
02-09-2010, 05:23 AM
I feel very blessed to have Ben as the quarterback for my team. He's not perfect, but he has the uncanny knack of making plays when other quartbacks would have given up. Not 100% of the time, as reflected in his sack total, but enough times to the the difference maker in winning and losing games. The guy is as tough as they make'm and I wouldn't trade him for a single QB in the league today.

LamarrWoodleysFade
02-09-2010, 08:39 AM
All this "true leader" stuff aside, Ben is still not a better player than Peyton, period, which is what this thread is about. Not saying Ben won't get there because he probably will, but RIGHT NOW, no.

I can understand the Nation's hate for Brady, but why hate Peyton?

TackleMeBen
02-09-2010, 09:08 AM
I can understand the Nation's hate for Brady, but why hate Peyton?
probably because everyone in the media has hyped up peyton so much, that when he fails people enjoy it.sometimes people just rub you the wrong way, you dont really know why but they do. i could see peyton being in this category.

can i have peyton during the regular season and ben for the playoffs???:chuckle:

peyton is a good qb,but if a big game is on the line, i would take ben anyday. ben is more clutch and tries to make something happen out of nothing.

Vincent
02-09-2010, 09:31 AM
http://forums.steelersfever.com/showpost.php?p=769948&postcount=41

scsteeler
02-09-2010, 11:18 AM
I for one am Glad the Ben is our QB and while I think Peyton is a great QB if I had my choice of QB's Ben gets my vote 10 out 10 times.

SteelersTilIDie
02-09-2010, 11:39 AM
peyton is the best right now...but not the best to ever play the game you'd have to do some talkin to the likes of joe montana, dan marino, john elway, etc.

RoethlisBURGHer
02-09-2010, 12:32 PM
How many times have you seen or read that Manning has ever taken responsibility for playing a bad game (which he certainly has over his 12 year career)? Ben at least mans up and takes responsibility when he's not played up to par instead of pointing fingers at his receivers and sulking on the sidelines. How often do you see Manning brainstorming and reviewing plays with his OC and offensive unit on the sidelines or congratulate his line and/or members of his unit after making a good play? I've seen Ben do this many times since he's worn the B & G and all of these things just add to what I believe makes Ben a true leader.

Ben takes 50+ sacks in a season and never once blames his offensive line.

Manning loses to the Steelers in the 2005 playoffs and instead of taking the loss on his shoulders, he throws his offensive line under the bus.

markymarc
02-09-2010, 08:32 PM
Count your blessings Steeler Nation...we are very lucky to have Ben as our franchise QB. And there is no doubt in my mind Ben while he doesn't have the fantasy numbers like Peyton he is the better QB. Last I checked 2 is still greater than 1!

chizzler
02-11-2010, 08:27 PM
Wow, my first post. No way I take Ben over Manning. I understand Ben plays for our team but the guy is extremely smart as a football player. I think people are looking into that interception too much. I think people have to look how long he sat on the bench not the interception as much. As far as Ben not throwing his line under the bus, is because he creates his own sacks. We all know this. Yes, we also mke out from this, but he needs to use some smarts or he won't be playing that long. Manning throws the ball away all the time.
Don't kill the rookie.

mesaSteeler
02-11-2010, 09:30 PM
(A little Dolt boy has his panties all waded up. - mesa)
http://www.stampedeblue.com/2010/2/11/1305070/jason-cole-vomits-on-keyboard
Jason Cole vomits on keyboard, calls it an "article"

Stampedeblue_tiny by BigBlueShoe on Feb 11, 2010 12:00 PM EST in Bad Journalism Comment 203 comments

Honestly, even Jets fans find this article dumb:

Before you send that email calling me crazy or mocking me only days after I wrote that Manning is the fourth-best quarterback of all time, let’s put this in perspective. It is impossible to truly measure Roethlisberger against Manning or Tom Brady(notes) just yet.

But, I, Jason Cole, am going to do it anyway because I've got a deadline and I have no interesting or thought-provoking ideas at at present. Instead, I'll just write an article stating Ben Roethisberger is better than Peyton Manning without any facts or numbers to back up the claim. Oh, did I mention I got paid to write this?

The bottom line is this: Roethlisberger is currently 8-2 in the playoffs, has two Super Bowl rings – including his great final drive against Arizona – and a quarterback rating of 87.2 in the playoffs. That includes his bad performance in the Super Bowl win against Seattle, a bad first half in a playoff loss to Jacksonville and a typically bad playoff game against New England in the 2004 playoffs when he was a rookie.

For Manning, he is now 9-9 in the playoffs over his 12-year career, has one Super Bowl win, is coming off a bad finish against New Orleans and has a quarterback rating of 95.5 in the playoffs. If you break down the stats further, you’ll note that the Colts have asked Manning to do a lot more (38.4 attempts per game) than the Steelers have of Roethlisberger (28.8 attempts).

But the bottom line is that Roethlisberger has succeeded (he was great in the 2008 playoffs and also in the 2005 playoffs before the Super Bowl against Seattle) and Manning has struggled.

Hmm, yes. Peyton Manning's QB rating in the playoffs is 95.5. Meanwhile, Ben's is 87.2. And even though Peyton has a better rating and performs better than Ben Roethlisberger in the playoffs despite being asked to do more, Jason somehow feels Ben has "succeeded" whereas Peyton has "struggled."

I guess we'll also just, you know, forget about that Super Bowl against the Seahawks which saw Roethlisberger light up the stats with a QB rating of 22. I could go out on a football field on gameday, fart on the ball, and get a better rating than that. But, such numbers and statistics have no place in Jason Cole's theorem. Ben is a "winner" because his team "wins" even if he stinks up the joint. Meanwhile, Peyton Manning tosses a 95.5 QB rating in playoff games, which is better than both Ben Roethlisberger and Tom Brady, but he is "struggling."

I didn't get the chance to talk to Jason while at the Super Bowl, and I think that might have been a good thing. Articles like this are examples of the kind of lazy, sloppy writing I just cannot stand. I continue to maintain that Cole is stealing money from Yahoo! when he gets paid to write articles like this.

Oh, and before Steelers fans start getting all Mike Tunison on me, kindly know that I think Ben is a very good QB. However, I think I can state pretty confidently that most Steelers fans do not think Ben is better than Peyton. However, if some do, then they are are dumb as Jason Cole's article.