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View Full Version : Rickey Jackson > Gregg Lloyd, Russ Grimm> Dirt Dawson. Really?


zulater
02-06-2010, 07:01 PM
Sorry if this sounds like Steelers sour grapes. And I particuarly hate to sound bitter when two great and deserving Pitt alumni go in on the same day. But I saw Ricky Jackson and Russ Grimm play their entire NFL career's. And as is the case with all former Panthers I followed their NFL careers closely. And I'm here to tell you that while Grimm was a great guard with the Redskins he wasn't nearly the player Dermonti Dawson was. And the same goes for Ricky Jackson relative to Greg Lloyd who wasn't even up for induction today. Ricky was a great all around linebacker, but Lloyd was a game changer, the baddest mo-fo of his time and one of the baddest of any time.

Oh well hopefully Dermontii makes it next year. :tt03:

devilsdancefloor
02-06-2010, 07:08 PM
LC Greenwood isnt in the HOF that is a shame he was a game changer. Donnie Shell inst there are so many who deserve HOF, but will never see it.

St33lersguy
02-06-2010, 07:11 PM
So many great steelers who should be in the hall that are not. It's a crime that Kevin Greene isn't in the hall either.

Hammer Of The GODS
02-06-2010, 08:13 PM
You can thank Peter King ( That Ass Pimple ) who was quoted as saying " There are too many Steelers in the HOF from those 1st 4 Superbowls " ! That fat POS has been black balling L.C. Greenwood for years!

He can swing from my ass hair!

St33lersguy
02-07-2010, 08:05 AM
Plus some guy named Floyd Little made it in. 2 questions 1. Who the hell is Floyd Little 2. What the hell is the rationale behind putting him in ahead of Dirt Dawson?

supa_fly_steeler
02-07-2010, 09:57 AM
He can swing from my ass hair!

:sofunny:

SteelersTilIDie
02-07-2010, 10:13 AM
LC Greenwood is in the hall of fame

desertsteel
02-07-2010, 11:15 AM
LC Greenwood is in the hall of fame

Wrong. Thanks for playing.

Godfather
02-07-2010, 11:19 AM
He can swing from my ass hair!

Put on a Tom Brady mask and a #12 jersey and he'll be happy to.

MasterOfPuppets
02-07-2010, 12:34 PM
Sorry if this sounds like Steelers sour grapes. And I particuarly hate to sound bitter when two great and deserving Pitt alumni go in on the same day. But I saw Ricky Jackson and Russ Grimm play their entire NFL career's. And as is the case with all former Panthers I followed their NFL careers closely. And I'm here to tell you that while Grimm was a great guard with the Redskins he wasn't nearly the player Dermonti Dawson was. And the same goes for Ricky Jackson relative to Greg Lloyd who wasn't even up for induction today. Ricky was a great all around linebacker, but Lloyd was a game changer, the baddest mo-fo of his time and one of the baddest of any time.

Oh well hopefully Dermontii makes it next year. :tt03:
completely agree with all the above.... while grimm was a solid guard thru out his carrear, he wasn't considered the best at his position like dawson was. as for ricky jackson, i don't ever recall his name being mentioned when great linebackers are being discussed.

jjpro11
02-07-2010, 04:29 PM
they honestly need to open the HOF up a bit more.. there are too many player and too many positions.. allowing 5 players in each year or whatever the limit is screwing over a lot of HOF caliber players. this isn't basketball, hockey, or baseball where there are fewer positions and players to evaluate. plus football players don't play as long as athletes in other sports, so the player turnover rate is much higher.

zulater
02-07-2010, 04:45 PM
they honestly need to open the HOF up a bit more.. there are too many player and too many positions.. allowing 5 players in each year or whatever the limit is screwing over a lot of HOF caliber players. this isn't basketball, hockey, or baseball where there are fewer positions and players to evaluate. plus football players don't play as long as athletes in other sports, so the player turnover rate is much higher.

Yeah I was kinda surprised they didn't put in the full 7 that was allowable. I thought this was a strong enough group of finalists to justify that.

SteelerFanInStl
02-07-2010, 05:08 PM
Plus some guy named Floyd Little made it in. 2 questions 1. Who the hell is Floyd Little 2. What the hell is the rationale behind putting him in ahead of Dirt Dawson?

Floyd Little getting into the HOF is a joke. The guy only had one 1,000 yard rushing season in his whole career with a career total of only 6,323 yards. Those are HOF numbers?

Here's what NFL.com says about Grimm:

The conversation about Grimm centered on the fact that it was a travesty that no member of the Washington Redskins' famed "Hogs" offensive line was in the Hall of Fame. It was pointed out that, through the Redskins' three Super Bowl victories, there were changes at quarterback and running back, but the one constant was the line. And testimonial after testimonial said that if one player from that group should be in Canton, Grimm was the man.

So basically he got in the HOF as a result of the success of the line as a whole instead of his individual accomplishments.

Dawson should've gotten elected.

El-Gonzo Jackson
02-07-2010, 11:44 PM
Its a bit of an issue of big market TV exposure. Russ Grimm was one of those "Hogs" O linemen that got a couple super bowls under Gibbs as coach. Dirt Dawson was the best center of his decade, just as Dwight Stevenson (Dolphins) was prior to Dawson and Mike Webster was prior to Stevenson.

Ricky Jackson was a guy that if he played in San Francisco, Chicago or NY, would have been in long ago. He posted similar results as Lawrence Taylor did in the same Era, but played in NO, with some other great LB's that will never get recognized either. Jackson deserves the hall......I honestly didnt think Grimm would get in, but congrats to him.

SteelersinCA
02-07-2010, 11:49 PM
My only gripe is Little over Dawson, no way anyone can rationalize that to me.

El-Gonzo Jackson
02-07-2010, 11:55 PM
My only gripe is Little over Dawson, no way anyone can rationalize that to me.

Floyd little was the 7th leading rusher when he retired from the NFL. He and Dick Lebeau got in as "Senior Candidates"....so they were not in the same pool as Dawson and others.

Basically the maximum number of senior candidates that can get in per year is 2 and they must get approval of 80% of the members once nominated. Basically Little and Lebeau got in on the same method.

One could easily argue that Chris Carter should have got in before Little and LeBeau, but its apples and oranges.

SteelersinCA
02-08-2010, 09:14 AM
Floyd little was the 7th leading rusher when he retired from the NFL. He and Dick Lebeau got in as "Senior Candidates"....so they were not in the same pool as Dawson and others.

Basically the maximum number of senior candidates that can get in per year is 2 and they must get approval of 80% of the members once nominated. Basically Little and Lebeau got in on the same method.

One could easily argue that Chris Carter should have got in before Little and LeBeau, but its apples and oranges.

I get that, and I thought about it, but when you are in the Hall, you are in. In my mind, the end result is the same, there's no asterisk for senior pool. So when I view it in that light, Dawson and Carter should be in before Little. But I see your point.

Indo
02-08-2010, 09:48 AM
I think Dawson will get in (next year?), but he was going up against Rice and Smith for 2 of the slots. I don't think there's a person in the world who thought that they would not get in this year...

Personally, I think he should have gotten in before Grimm, but the fact is that it's difficult for the voters to "get around" the idea of a lineman being an HOFer. There just aren't any stats to say that "this guy blocked better than that guy", so it becomes a subjective (rather than objective) feeling of who was better. Grimm has rings; Dawson doesn't. Does that make Grimm better? I don't think so. But obviously the Voting Committee did.


Here's to LeBeau :tt03:

lillloyd
02-08-2010, 09:59 AM
Jackson? He was tremendous. Completely deserving. He just toiled for a team that didn't get much pub. Lloyd was my favorite player for a LONG time, but I don't think he deserves to be in the HOF ahead of Jackson...if at all. (If it weren't for that damn knee injury and that staph infection, maybe it's a different conversation?)

RE/ Grimm and Dawson, I don't think this is really fair to complain just yet, as Grimm has been eligible for a longer time period. Really I think the voters wanted to get one of the "Hogs" into the Hall. Grimm was a great player--and deserving, I think-- too, but I agree that Dawson was special whereas Grimm was "merely" great. It will become a moot point in 2 or 3 years when Dawson gets in though.

There are other great players in the league besides Steelers (as much as we may not want to admit it :) I think it's good actually that the Hall recognizes players like Jackson. In a way, Dawson's case is not unlike Jackson's, in that he played during an era when the Steelers were not doing particularly well, and could be overlooked if the Hall were less discerning.

LVSteelersfan
02-08-2010, 11:38 AM
It is about time Dick Lebeau got in. Not because of his Steeler coaching but also because he was one of the best in his time period when he played. I am sure he would have made it in as a coach if not as a player, but congrats to Lebeau. He is much better as a coach than that fat slob Madden.

El-Gonzo Jackson
02-08-2010, 12:11 PM
It is about time Dick Lebeau got in. Not because of his Steeler coaching but also because he was one of the best in his time period when he played. I am sure he would have made it in as a coach if not as a player, but congrats to Lebeau. He is much better as a coach than that fat slob Madden.

So true. I think he got lost in the crowd because Night Train Lane was in the same Detroit secondary as Lebeau. Kind of like LC Greenwood playing on the same line as Mean Joe.

WeegiesWarriors
02-08-2010, 02:25 PM
Steelers will forever be held to a higher standard in Hall voting. I didn't read the whole thread, but enough to agree with the Peter King part. Too many voters think like him in that too many Steelers are in the Hall already.

I had no problem with Rickey Jackson getting in. He was crazy quick off the ball, and flat out dominated. I thought he was as good as LT back in the day. If Derrick Thomas was good enough to make it so was Jackson. The Saints LBs of the late 80's were fun to watch. Jackson, Sam Mills, Vaughn Johnson, and Pat Swilling were as good of a corp as their ever was aside from the Steel Curtain's (sorry NFL Network). One of them deserves in the Hall. Plus Jackson did have to wait 15 years or so.

El-Gonzo Jackson
02-08-2010, 11:57 PM
Steelers will forever be held to a higher standard in Hall voting. I didn't read the whole thread, but enough to agree with the Peter King part. Too many voters think like him in that too many Steelers are in the Hall already.

I had no problem with Rickey Jackson getting in. He was crazy quick off the ball, and flat out dominated. I thought he was as good as LT back in the day. If Derrick Thomas was good enough to make it so was Jackson. The Saints LBs of the late 80's were fun to watch. Jackson, Sam Mills, Vaughn Johnson, and Pat Swilling were as good of a corp as their ever was aside from the Steel Curtain's (sorry NFL Network). One of them deserves in the Hall. Plus Jackson did have to wait 15 years or so.

Amen brother!!

A truer post has never been typed on this forum. :applaudit:

solardave
02-09-2010, 06:45 AM
You can thank Peter King ( That Ass Pimple ) who was quoted as saying " There are too many Steelers in the HOF from those 1st 4 Superbowls " ! That fat POS has been black balling L.C. Greenwood for years!

He can swing from my ass hair!

Don't mince words, say what you really feel!:chuckle:

batemmi
03-07-2010, 05:28 AM
I'll preface this by saying Greg Lloyd is my favorite Steeler of all time. I'm 38 so i've seen 'em all come and go since the 70's dynasty. For about 3 years Greg Lloyd was one of the top 3 or 4 most dominant defensive players in the nfl (1992-1995). His preseason hit on Favre is still something i watch on dvd and have had him sign an 11x18 of it. But Rickey Jackson deserves to go in before Lloyd. Longer career, more sacks, more forced fumbles, more fumble recoveries. and the front 4 and secondary Jackson played with wasnt nearly the quality that Lloyd played with. Love Lloyd, but that torn ACL and staph infection crushed any chance he had to put up the numbers that would warrent closer HOF consideration.
And Steelers fans shouldnt worry about Dermontti Dawson. He will get in in 2011 or 2012. He is one of, if not the greatest center in NFL history. They're making him wait because of the perceived Steelers bias.