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steeltheone
02-21-2010, 02:05 PM
How is Montana ranked one of the greatest when he had as much or more talent around him as Bradshaw. Montana was a system qb if there ever was one. I'm not saying bradshaw was the best. I reserve that for Elway. But i believe Montana is as overrated as they come.

AllD
02-21-2010, 05:58 PM
Montana was pure clutch. Sure he had Rice and a cast of others not to mention the best coach since Noll. Montana never lost a SB either. Elway is not in the same league as Brad or Montana.

steeltheone
02-21-2010, 07:58 PM
Elway took teams to the SB on his back...Montana could never do this.

Psyychoward86
02-21-2010, 09:41 PM
he had a great RB, tight end, and defense behind him, but they werent elite. Of course he had Rice, but you gotta give the man his credit. He's one of the most prolific playoff/superbowl quarterbacks of all time. And yes, he was very clutch. And unlike Bradshaw, he was the focal point of the team. Gotta give credit when it is due.

Vincent
02-21-2010, 09:58 PM
There are several Montana McFarlanes. But not a Brad.

Seriously, what are those people thinking about?

lionslicer
02-22-2010, 07:41 AM
Every great quarterback had great talent around him. Marino even had great offensive players around him, he was just never blessed with a run game or defense to help him win games.

supa_fly_steeler
02-22-2010, 09:25 AM
montana had a qb rating of 92.3 and 4 rings bradshsaw had a qb rating of 70.9 and 4 rings.

Of course everyone will say Montana was better and is imo. Our defense won the games back then although terry made the plays in the post season. Montana was the shit in the playoffs. He had Jerry Rice we had Jack Lambert...

elway had a qb rating of 79.9. he can't come into the discussion i don't care if he had 2 rings he only got good in his last five years and was average at best in his first 10.

It's like if Vick one a ring or two i could go around saying he is the best ever...

For me Peyton Manning will go down as best ever he near the end of his career and he is 95.2 if the Colts did not have him, they would be ****ed

fansince'76
02-22-2010, 10:31 AM
montana had a qb rating of 92.3 and 4 rings bradshsaw had a qb rating of 70.9 and 4 rings.

Of course everyone will say Montana was better and is imo. Our defense won the games back then although terry made the plays in the post season. Montana was the shit in the playoffs. He had Jerry Rice we had Jack Lambert...

Pretty obvious you never saw either play. Most of Montana's passes never went more than 5 yards in the air before they were caught. Can you say dink-n-dunk? Bradshaw liked to throw much lower percentage deep passes and did so with regularity as he called his own plays. Bradshaw also played more than half his career in a league where DBs were allowed to actually play defense and pretty much mugged WRs. Also, the Steelers of the '70s played against stiffer competition in the SB than the 49ers did in the '80s. The only thing that prevented the Cowboys of the '70s from being the team of the decade were the Steelers, and the Steelers beat them in the SB twice. They also beat a Vikings team that went to the big dance 4 times in the '70s. Who did the Niners of the '80s beat? The Bungles twice and two basically one-man teams in the Marino-led Dolphins and the Elway-led Broncos. QB ratings don't tell the whole story.

Indo
02-22-2010, 02:20 PM
Pretty obvious you never saw either play. Most of Montana's passes never went more than 5 yards in the air before they were caught. Can you say dink-n-dunk? Bradshaw liked to throw much lower percentage deep passes and did so with regularity as he called his own plays. Bradshaw also played more than half his career in a league where DBs were allowed to actually play defense and pretty much mugged WRs. Also, the Steelers of the '70s played against stiffer competition in the SB than the 49ers did in the '80s. The only thing that prevented the Cowboys of the '70s from being the team of the decade were the Steelers, and the Steelers beat them in the SB twice. They also beat a Vikings team that went to the big dance 4 times in the '70s. Who did the Niners of the '80s beat? The Bungles twice and two basically one-man teams in the Marino-led Dolphins and the Elway-led Broncos. QB ratings don't tell the whole story.

:thumbsup:

steeltheone
02-22-2010, 02:22 PM
Pretty obvious you never saw either play. Most of Montana's passes never went more than 5 yards in the air before they were caught. Can you say dink-n-dunk? Bradshaw liked to throw much lower percentage deep passes and did so with regularity as he called his own plays. Bradshaw also played more than half his career in a league where DBs were allowed to actually play defense and pretty much mugged WRs. Also, the Steelers of the '70s played against stiffer competition in the SB than the 49ers did in the '80s. The only thing that prevented the Cowboys of the '70s from being the team of the decade were the Steelers, and the Steelers beat them in the SB twice. They also beat a Vikings team that went to the big dance 4 times in the '70s. Who did the Niners of the '80s beat? The Bungles twice and two basically one-man teams in the Marino-led Dolphins and the Elway-led Broncos. QB ratings don't tell the whole story.

Nice Post..

supa_fly_steeler
02-22-2010, 02:42 PM
Pretty obvious you never saw either play. Most of Montana's passes never went more than 5 yards in the air before they were caught. Can you say dink-n-dunk? Bradshaw liked to throw much lower percentage deep passes and did so with regularity as he called his own plays. Bradshaw also played more than half his career in a league where DBs were allowed to actually play defense and pretty much mugged WRs. Also, the Steelers of the '70s played against stiffer competition in the SB than the 49ers did in the '80s. The only thing that prevented the Cowboys of the '70s from being the team of the decade were the Steelers, and the Steelers beat them in the SB twice. They also beat a Vikings team that went to the big dance 4 times in the '70s. Who did the Niners of the '80s beat? The Bungles twice and two basically one-man teams in the Marino-led Dolphins and the Elway-led Broncos. QB ratings don't tell the whole story.

thats true but using bradshaw as going long alot of the time is a little bit of an excuse i dont say mike vick go long when he did alot of the times.

WHO DEY THINK CAN BEAT DEM BUNGALS WE DEY

El-Gonzo Jackson
02-22-2010, 02:50 PM
he had a great RB, tight end, and defense behind him, but they werent elite. Of course he had Rice, but you gotta give the man his credit. He's one of the most prolific playoff/superbowl quarterbacks of all time. And yes, he was very clutch. And unlike Bradshaw, he was the focal point of the team. Gotta give credit when it is due.

Thank you....at least somebody in this thread is remotely sane.

El-Gonzo Jackson
02-22-2010, 02:56 PM
Elway took teams to the SB on his back...Montana could never do this.

Yeah, but how many Rings did Elway win without a RB like Terrell Davis on the team??? One could easliy say that Elway had more talent around him than Montana

1981 SF Forty Niners

Leading Rusher----Ricky Patton 543 yards
Leading receivers- Dwight Clark 1105 yds, Freddie Soloman 969 yds, Earl Cooper, 477

MasterOfPuppets
02-22-2010, 03:05 PM
montana most definitly played in a dink and dunk offense and his stats were inflated by YAC. watch this highlight vid, just as 76's said ,he seldom had to throw the ball more than 5 to 10 yds.

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/x63fX8coUho&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/x63fX8coUho&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

AllD
02-22-2010, 03:06 PM
"Hey, you guys see John Candy in the seats."

steelreserve
02-22-2010, 05:02 PM
The Steelers of the '70s were known for having the best defense of all-time. If people think it was the defense winning all the games and the QB just had to be decent, they give him less credit and call him a "game manager." I'm not saying that's fair, or accurate, but that's how it is. The 49ers were known for their offense, and Montana threw for about 13,000 more yards than Bradshaw. So that's the explanation, whether you think it's fair or not.

FYI, even in San Francisco, Montana wasn't really mentioned in the same breath as the "all-time greats" until he won the third Super Bowl with the drive to beat the Bengals. Until then, and even after that, a lot of people didn't even think he was the best quarterback on the team; they were bitching to trade Montana and let Steve Young start. Hmm, wait, does THAT sound familiar?:scratchchin:

Hmm, guess not. It must be that there's just an uncanny concentration of Steelers fans who are spoiled idiots and visit this particular message board to bitch about Roethlisberger. It couldn't be that second-guessing is a favorite pastime of sports fans everywhere. I think I'd better go and take personal offense to it.

AllD
02-22-2010, 06:56 PM
Thank you....at least somebody in this thread is remotely sane.



Joe Montana is the only player to ever win THREE Super Bowl MVPs.

Debate over.

steeltheone
02-23-2010, 03:15 AM
Yeah, but how many Rings did Elway win without a RB like Terrell Davis on the team??? One could easliy say that Elway had more talent around him than Montana

1981 SF Forty Niners

Leading Rusher----Ricky Patton 543 yards
Leading receivers- Dwight Clark 1105 yds, Freddie Soloman 969 yds, Earl Cooper, 477

That is insane..

LambertIsGod58
02-23-2010, 10:35 AM
Elway took teams to the SB on his back...Montana could never do this.

IF Elway took teams to the Super Bowl on his back, I think he had some major help with Shannon Sharpe and Terrell Davis. And probably the best offensive line at the time, if not second behind Dallas. I'm not saying Elway wasn't a great QB, but I would never mention him as the Greatest of All-Time.

LambertIsGod58
02-23-2010, 10:38 AM
The Steelers of the '70s were known for having the best defense of all-time. If people think it was the defense winning all the games and the QB just had to be decent, they give him less credit and call him a "game manager." I'm not saying that's fair, or accurate, but that's how it is. The 49ers were known for their offense, and Montana threw for about 13,000 more yards than Bradshaw. So that's the explanation, whether you think it's fair or not.

FYI, even in San Francisco, Montana wasn't really mentioned in the same breath as the "all-time greats" until he won the third Super Bowl with the drive to beat the Bengals. Until then, and even after that, a lot of people didn't even think he was the best quarterback on the team; they were bitching to trade Montana and let Steve Young start. Hmm, wait, does THAT sound familiar?:scratchchin:

Hmm, guess not. It must be that there's just an uncanny concentration of Steelers fans who are spoiled idiots and visit this particular message board to bitch about Roethlisberger. It couldn't be that second-guessing is a favorite pastime of sports fans everywhere. I think I'd better go and take personal offense to it.

Keep in mind that the Mel Blount rule didn't exist until '78. Brad's numbers would have been signifigantly better if that rule had always been in existance.

Dino 6 Rings
02-23-2010, 12:41 PM
How about this stat. QB Rating in the Superbowl.

Terry Bradshaw 1st Superbowl appearance QB Rating 108.0
Tom Brady 1st Superbowl appearance QB Rating 86.2
Joe Montana 1st Superbowl appearance QB Rating 100.0

Terry Bradshaw 2nd Superbowl appearance QB Rating 122.5
Tom Brady 2nd Superbowl appearance QB Rating 100.5
Joe Montana 2nd Superbowl appearance QB Rating 127.2

Terry Bradshaw 3rd Superbowl appearance QB Rating 119.2
Tom Brady 3rd Superbowl appearance QB Rating 110.2
Joe Montana 3rd Superbowl appearance QB Rating 115.2

Terry Bradshaw 4th Superbowl appearance QB Rating 101.9
Tom Brady 4th Superbowl appearance QB Rating 82.5
Joe Montana 4th Superbowl appearance QB Rating 147.6

Who’s the best of those three in Big Games?

TDS Career Superbowl
Terry Bradshaw = 9
Tom Brady = 7
Joe Montana = 11

Dino 6 Rings
02-23-2010, 12:42 PM
I have all kinds of stats, I've been saving for years

Playoffs including Superbowl games played (sorry but it was too much work to dig out just playoffs minus the superbowls)
TDs yards, ints Career
Brady 17 games, 88.0 rating, 3954 yards, 26 tds, 12 ints
Marino 18 games, 77.1 rating, 4510 yards, 32 tds, 24 ints
Favre, 22 games, 85.2 rating, 5311 yards, 39 tds, 28 ints
Elway, 22 games, 79.9 rating 4964 yards, 27 tds, 21 ints
Montana 23 games, 96.2 rating, 5772 yards, 45 tds, 21 ints
Bradshaw 19 games, 83.0 rating, 3833 yards, 30tds, 26 ints
Staubach 19 games, 76.5 rating, 2827 yards, 24 tds, 19 ints
Kelly, 17 games, 71.7 rating, 3863 yards, 20 tds, 28 ints
P Manning, 14 games, 84.4 rating, 3897 yards, 21 tds, 17 ints.
Young, 20 games, 85.8 rating, 3326 yards, 20 tds, 13 ints
Aikman, 16 games, 89.0 rating, 3849 yards, 24 tds, 17 ints

Dino 6 Rings
02-23-2010, 12:43 PM
That last one is 2 season old so some of the numbers for Favre and Brady may be off

Dino 6 Rings
02-23-2010, 12:48 PM
I concede only to Montana, as a huge Bradshaw fan.

That's it, he's the only one I'll even listen to a discussion about in regards to being the Greatest QB of all Time over Terry.

However, since Terry was the QB of the Greatest Team of all time, of the Greatest Franchise of all Time, of the Greatest Sport of all time, in the Greatest Nation of all Time, it is easy to see how Terry Bradshaw is simply the Greatest Human of all Time that didn't have a religion follow in his wake. (Unless you count the prayer I do each football day to his picture over my television)

RoethlisBURGHer
02-23-2010, 12:50 PM
IF Elway took teams to the Super Bowl on his back, I think he had some major help with Shannon Sharpe and Terrell Davis. And probably the best offensive line at the time, if not second behind Dallas. I'm not saying Elway wasn't a great QB, but I would never mention him as the Greatest of All-Time.

You do realize that John Elway played in 5 Super Bowls, right?

He made it to those first three Super Bowls without Sharpe or Davis. He carried those three Broncos teams on his back to the Super Bowl. The last two, the two Super Bowls that he won, he won with Sharpe and Davis because he finally had some help.

Dino 6 Rings
02-23-2010, 12:53 PM
You do realize that John Elway played in 5 Super Bowls, right?

He made it to those first three Super Bowls without Sharpe or Davis. He carried those three Broncos teams on his back to the Super Bowl. The last two, the two Super Bowls that he won, he won with Sharpe and Davis because he finally had some help.

Jim Kelly made it to 4 superbowls in a row, why not throw him into the argument.

getting to the SB is not enough. You Have To Win it.

AllD
02-23-2010, 04:48 PM
The Broncos got blown out in most of their SB losses. The two greatest QBs never lost a SB.

Indo
02-23-2010, 04:54 PM
I concede only to Montana, as a huge Bradshaw fan.

That's it, he's the only one I'll even listen to a discussion about in regards to being the Greatest QB of all Time over Terry.

However, since Terry was the QB of the Greatest Team of all time, of the Greatest Franchise of all Time, of the Greatest Sport of all time, in the Greatest Nation of all Time, it is easy to see how Terry Bradshaw is simply the Greatest Human of all Time that didn't have a religion follow in his wake. (Unless you count the prayer I do each football day to his picture over my television)

:tt03:

RoethlisBURGHer
02-23-2010, 11:34 PM
I concede only to Montana, as a huge Bradshaw fan.

That's it, he's the only one I'll even listen to a discussion about in regards to being the Greatest QB of all Time over Terry.

However, since Terry was the QB of the Greatest Team of all time, of the Greatest Franchise of all Time, of the Greatest Sport of all time, in the Greatest Nation of all Time, it is easy to see how Terry Bradshaw is simply the Greatest Human of all Time that didn't have a religion follow in his wake. (Unless you count the prayer I do each football day to his picture over my television)

:tt03::tt03::tt03::tt03::tt03::tt03::tt03::tt03::t t03::tt03::tt03::tt03::tt03::tt03:

steelerdave1969
02-24-2010, 09:21 PM
Elway took teams to the SB on his back...Montana could never do this.

Montana in my mind is one of the top 3 or 4 QB's all-time. Sorry I dont rank Elway anywhere near Montana.

steeltheone
02-24-2010, 09:48 PM
Once again with an average team Montana goes nowhere. Elway wins. Steve young was a more complete QB than Montana.

El-Gonzo Jackson
02-25-2010, 12:58 AM
Why not just start a thread saying that Mickey Mantle was just a product of a good team and wasnt as good as Dave Parker??

Better yet, Gordie Howe was lucky that he had a good goaltender....but he couldnt carry Rick Kehoe's jock. That is pretty much what this thread is digressing to.

steelreserve
02-25-2010, 01:43 PM
Once again with an average team Montana goes nowhere. Elway wins. Steve young was a more complete QB than Montana.

What does Bradshaw do with an average team, then?

I'm just sayin' :noidea:

MasterOfPuppets
02-25-2010, 02:19 PM
everybody points to 4 superbowl rings to validate bradshaws greatness... yet they act like montana only has rings because he was on a great team ....:doh:

steeltheone
02-25-2010, 08:06 PM
People are not claiming Bradshaw is the greatest, nor am i.

Vincent
02-25-2010, 08:57 PM
I concede only to Montana, as a huge Bradshaw fan.

That's it, he's the only one I'll even listen to a discussion about in regards to being the Greatest QB of all Time over Terry.

However, since Terry was the QB of the Greatest Team of all time, of the Greatest Franchise of all Time, of the Greatest Sport of all time, in the Greatest Nation of all Time, it is easy to see how Terry Bradshaw is simply the Greatest Human of all Time that didn't have a religion follow in his wake. (Unless you count the prayer I do each football day to his picture over my television)

This evidence could be used against you at your homer trial. :chuckle:

I entirely agree. Brad and Joe are the two greatest. Nobody else belongs in the conversation. Different eras. Different kinds of teams. But both were money.

This young Roethlisberger fellow reminds me of both.

LambertIsGod58
02-25-2010, 09:54 PM
This evidence could be used against you at your homer trial. :chuckle:

I entirely agree. Brad and Joe are the two greatest. Nobody else belongs in the conversation. Different eras. Different kinds of teams. But both were money.

This young Roethlisberger fellow reminds me of both.



Ben wasn't "money" in XL IMO. Not even close.

LambertIsGod58
02-25-2010, 09:54 PM
But he sure was in XLIII.....no arguing that.

pete74
02-28-2010, 10:27 AM
stat wise marino blew all of them out of the water. montana's stats were decent at best but he excelled in the playoffs and thats why he will be known as a great QB. elway was the same. neither one cam close to having stats like peyton manning during the regular season but they stepped there game up when they really needed to