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supa_fly_steeler
02-24-2010, 11:22 PM
Sea World whale kills trainer in Orlando

English.news.cn 2010-02-25 09:14:34

BEIJING, Feb. 25(XInhuanet) -- A killer whale attacked and killed an experienced trainer at a Sea World show on Wednesday in Orlando, U.S.

The victim Dawn Brancheau, 40, was one of the veteran trainers of the park, Sea World spokesman Fred Jacobs said.

Jacobs also confirmed that the killer whale, called Tilikkum, was involved in two other previous deadly whale attacks in 1991 and 1999.

The show was just starting when the whale ''took off really fast in the tank, and then he came back, shot up in the air, grabbed the trainer by the waist and started thrashing around, and one of her shoes flew off," an audience member Victoria Biniak told WKMG-TV.

But another witness said the trainer slipped or fell into the whale's tank, which seemed to contradict Biniak's description.

So far, itís not clear exactly how the attacked trainer died. (eaten apparantley supas edited note)


(Agencies)

http://news.xinhuanet.com/english2010/2010-02/25/c_13187204.htm

tony hipchest
02-24-2010, 11:39 PM
why do you keep putting locker room threads in the football forum and vice versa?

supa_fly_steeler
02-24-2010, 11:43 PM
whoops dam my bad i thought this was locker room.

Shea
02-24-2010, 11:47 PM
Jacobs also confirmed that the killer whale, called Tilikkum, was involved in two other previous deadly whale attacks in 1991 and 1999.

That's interesting. Perhaps this whale shouldn't have been used in the manner that he was after the first death, let alone the second?? Or maybe what is stated was referring to confrontations with other whales?? Don't know.

It must have been horrifying, to say the least, for the audience to have seen this.

Perhaps, these animals would be best left to live in their natural environments and not in a money-making inadequately small enclosed pool.

Psyychoward86
02-25-2010, 12:02 AM
lol (not at the death, just the fact that this is in the wrong section)


yeah um.........really bizarre? How about we leave it at that?

7SteelGal43
02-25-2010, 12:28 AM
I too find it very interesting that this particular killer whale was used in shows after being responsible for TWO other deaths over the years. DUH. guess it wasn't such a tame orca after all.

Shea
02-25-2010, 12:30 AM
lol (not at the death, just the fact that this is in the wrong section)


yeah um.........really bizarre? How about we leave it at that?

It is funny that this would at all be deemed appropriate to be posted in the NFL forum. :sofunny: Never knew that tragedies in the whale world would be tied to football. :wink02:

C'mon Supa, slow down and take some time with your postings.

Even your location has a typo that throws people off. Type and then read what you've typed. Just a suggestion. :drink:

SteelerNation12
02-25-2010, 01:01 AM
Had to be terrible for kids to see this lady die in front of them.

steelreserve
02-25-2010, 02:02 AM
whoops dam my bad i thought this was locker room.

Yeah, and I wonder how many times you've said the exact same thing when you "accidentally" barge into the ladies' room? Dozens, is my guess.

Protip: They don't have locker rooms at IHOP.

Borski
02-25-2010, 02:42 AM
Not the Whales fault, its a top predator, it eat Great White sharks in the wild. If the whale has a violent past they should of taken it out of shows, maybe try and re introduce it to the wild. But no one should blame the animal when a top predator trapped in a small little cage might get aggressive once in a while. Sad for the Trainer, their family and all who witnessed the event though.

stlrtruck
02-25-2010, 07:42 AM
As a co-worker said yesterday, you put an animal that is use to swimming for miles and miles in open waters and then basically put it in a swimming pool, it's going to eventually have a "bad day"!

I feel sorry for the trainer's family!

SteelMember
02-25-2010, 07:59 AM
Not the Whales fault, its a top predator, it eat Great White sharks in the wild. If the whale has a violent past they should of taken it out of shows, maybe try and re introduce it to the wild. But no one should blame the animal when a top predator trapped in a small little cage might get aggressive once in a while. Sad for the Trainer, their family and all who witnessed the event though.

This is about where I'm at with this. Sad, but a the same time...

Orca = Killer Whale.

Force a wild animal (preditorial) into a confined environment, put it on a strict schedule and diet, train it to do tricks for the paying customers multiple times a day... wonder what the problem could be. :doh:

This just reminds me of all the circus animal incidents we hear about. These animals get pissed. The ones that don't are simply broken, or just enjoy smoking cigarettes while we smile and point at them.

supa_fly_steeler
02-25-2010, 11:08 AM
Yeah, and I wonder how many times you've said the exact same thing when you "accidentally" barge into the ladies' room? Dozens, is my guess.

Protip: They don't have locker rooms at IHOP.

i don't barge into ladies lockerooms i get invited :flap:

vasteeler
02-25-2010, 11:52 AM
thats why they are called "wild" animals

Nadroj 20
02-25-2010, 11:59 AM
As a co-worker said yesterday, you put an animal that is use to swimming for miles and miles in open waters and then basically put it in a swimming pool, it's going to eventually have a "bad day"!

I feel sorry for the trainer's family!

Yea i agree with this, they arent meant to be in the situations they are in so its not hard to believe once in a while they get in a really bad mood.

stillers4me
02-25-2010, 11:59 AM
The whale and any other animal, including our beloved pet dogs, occasionally forget they are "tamed" and revert to instinct. They are not to blame.

TroysBadDawg
02-25-2010, 12:13 PM
Come on people lighten up, the orca was given tuna that was suppuse to taste good not have good taste, sorry Charlie.

Dino 6 Rings
02-25-2010, 12:13 PM
Big Sigh...

Just two words...

"Killer Whale"

Duh!

Indo
02-25-2010, 02:33 PM
In his book The Ocean Realm, Jacques Cousteau stated that he believes that the Orca is the smartest animal on the planet---yes, including humans ( and I think I agree with him....just check out this website, and you'll see why
http://www.peopleofwalmart.com/)

I am an avid scuba diver---I love to be in the water with sharks and I've had about fifty hammerheads ranging from about 8 feet to about 14 feet around me. No worries.

But there are two animals I won't get in the water with---the Great White Shark
(OK. I was in the water with Great whites, but I was in a cage)

and the Orca.

(there is no such thing as a "tame" Orca. Just a "captive" one)

Nadroj 20
02-25-2010, 02:38 PM
In his book The Ocean Realm, Jaques Cousteau stated that he believes that the Orca is the smartest animal on the planet---yes, including humans ( and I think I agree with him....just check out this website, and you'll see why
http://www.peopleofwalmart.com/)

I am an avid scuba diver---I love to be in the water with sharks and I've had about fifty hammerheads ranging from about 8 feet to about 14 feet around me. No worries.

But there are two animals I won't get in the water with---the Great White Shark
(OK. I was in the water with Great whites, but I was in a cage)

and the Orca.

(there is no such thing as a "tame" Orca. Just a "captive" one)

Wow i have a huge fear of sharks and would never EVER do that i dont think lol.

SteelersinCA
02-26-2010, 11:38 AM
In his book The Ocean Realm, Jacques Cousteau stated that he believes that the Orca is the smartest animal on the planet---yes, including humans ( and I think I agree with him....just check out this website, and you'll see why
http://www.peopleofwalmart.com/)

I am an avid scuba diver---I love to be in the water with sharks and I've had about fifty hammerheads ranging from about 8 feet to about 14 feet around me. No worries.

But there are two animals I won't get in the water with---the Great White Shark
(OK. I was in the water with Great whites, but I was in a cage)

and the Orca.

(there is no such thing as a "tame" Orca. Just a "captive" one)

Indo I dive as well and my life dream is to dive with great whites! I just want to touch an animal that has been around for millions of years. I love sharks.

zulater
02-26-2010, 12:58 PM
Indo I dive as well and my life dream is to dive with great whites! I just want to touch an animal that has been around for millions of years. I love sharks.

In that case just grab the next roach that happens across your path.

:chuckle:

Indo
02-26-2010, 04:51 PM
Indo I dive as well and my life dream is to dive with great whites! I just want to touch an animal that has been around for millions of years. I love sharks.

Check this out----

I went on the Great White dive thru a diveshop in New Orleans, but we used these guys...

Perfect for you---they're based in San Diego

http://www.sharkdiver.com/ watch the video on the website

very safety conscious and VERY worth it

As for touching sharks, I have touched a Nurse shark (who hasn't, right?) . But one of the larger Whites (about 18ft) accidentally bumped into one of the shark cages (not the one I was in, unfortunately) and one of my friends in that cage touched it as it swung by. Now THAT would be cool---touching an Apex Predator.
Maybe one day

Do the cage dive with Shark Diver---you won't regret it

SteelersinCA
02-26-2010, 05:12 PM
I have been looking at it, now I just have to convince the wife!

Indo
02-26-2010, 05:21 PM
I have been looking at it, now I just have to convince the wife!

It's a long boat ride from S.D. down to Isla Guadalupe-----during the ride they play the movie "Jaws"! Pretty cool...then you go to bed and wake up at sunrise with Guadalupe on the bow of the boat---in the water about an hour or so later.

Wife in your face------Great Whites in your face
Wife in your face-------Great White sharks in your face

Oh, the choices we must make!
(you'll regret it if you don't make the right choice!)

supa_fly_steeler
02-26-2010, 05:24 PM
i was going to go swimming in cage in south africa with great whites.

i backed out lol

MACH1
02-26-2010, 05:25 PM
The whale was lookin for a piece of Snapper. :chuckle:

Indo
02-26-2010, 05:28 PM
Here are some photos from our trip


http://www.flickr.com/photos/23758992@N08/sets/72157617609049345/

SteelCityMom
02-26-2010, 05:38 PM
Here are some photos from our trip


http://www.flickr.com/photos/23758992@N08/sets/72157617609049345/

Thank you for sharing those! They are fabulous. It is also my dream to go swimming with sharks. They've always been my favorite animal since I got into Dr. Eugene Clark when I was 8. I've only ever gotten to touch one wild shark though, and it was a baby black tip that my Dad caught while fishing on the coast in St. Augustine. I must have played with him (or her) for a good hour in one of the tide pools on the beach. All the others were just nurse sharks at zoos.

For me, it would be trying to convince my fiance to get in the water with me...he's not very fond of swimming, let alone the ocean. It's always been at the top of my to-do list though.

Indo
02-26-2010, 06:17 PM
Thank you for sharing those! They are fabulous. It is also my dream to go swimming with sharks. They've always been my favorite animal since I got into Dr. Eugene Clark when I was 8. I've only ever gotten to touch one wild shark though, and it was a baby black tip that my Dad caught while fishing on the coast in St. Augustine. I must have played with him (or her) for a good hour in one of the tide pools on the beach. All the others were just nurse sharks at zoos.

For me, it would be trying to convince my fiance to get in the water with me...he's not very fond of swimming, let alone the ocean. It's always been at the top of my to-do list though.

It was one of those "Bucket List " things for me, too. My absolute favorite place to dive with them so far has been the Galapagos Islands. Some of the dives were with white tips, some with Galapagos sharks (found only in the Galapagos---imagine that!) and some dives were with BIG hammerheads. And the Great Whites of Isla Guadalupe (see the link above)were just phenomenal---HUGE things

Being in the water with them (any sharks) is just an adrenaline rush to me. I have never been afraid or even the least bit nervous. To me they are incredibly beautiful to the point of being Mesmerizing---the reason they haven't evolved for millions of years is because they were created perfect from the beginning. No need to evolve.

Since the thread was originally about Orcas, let me just say that I would NOT want to be in the water with them (OK, I would, but I would have enough sense to get out of the water if I saw one----they are Incredibly intelligent, know how to hunt in packs, and make Great Whites look like puppy dogs))
I have seen Orcas (from the boat ) when I was diving off of Vancouver Island with the same dive group. I took some pictures of them that I will post when I get a chance...

Borski
02-26-2010, 06:20 PM
I have a college field trip to that sea world for my oceanography class Monday. I wonder if they will let people see the whales by then, That section is closed down right now.

SteelCityMom
02-26-2010, 06:26 PM
It was one of those "Bucket List " things for me, too. My absolute favorite place to dive with them so far has been the Galapagos Islands. Some of the dives were with white tips, some with Galapagos sharks (found only in the Galapagos---imagine that!) and some dives were with BIG hammerheads. And the Great Whites of Isla Guadalupe (see the link above)were just phenomenal---HUGE things

Being in the water with them (any sharks) is just an adrenaline rush to me. I have never been afraid or even the least bit nervous. To me they are incredibly beautiful to the point of being Mesmerizing---the reason they haven't evolved for millions of years is because they were created perfect from the beginning. No need to evolve.

Since the thread was originally about Orcas, let me just say that I would NOT want to be in the water with them (OK, I would, but I would have enough sense to get out of the water if I saw one----they are Incredibly intelligent, know how to hunt in packs, and make Great Whites look like puppy dogs))
I have seen Orcas (from the boat ) when I was diving off of Vancouver Island with the same dive group. I took some pictures of them that I will post when I get a chance...

Yeah, I wouldn't want to get near an Orca either. You can survive a shark attack...you don't stand much chance of surviving an Orca attack at all. I've seen footage of them tossing around seals and dolphins like they were beach balls, almost like it was a game for them. Sharks attack to eat (and will typically just take a bite out of a human and move along, since we're not very appetizing to them). Orcas, and some other breeds of dolphins, will attack more out of territoriality. Definitely not something I want to be involved with at all.

Indo
02-26-2010, 06:42 PM
Yeah, I wouldn't want to get near an Orca either. You can survive a shark attack...you don't stand much chance of surviving an Orca attack at all. I've seen footage of them tossing around seals and dolphins like they were beach balls, almost like it was a game for them. Sharks attack to eat (and will typically just take a bite out of a human and move along, since we're not very appetizing to them). Orcas, and some other breeds of dolphins, will attack more out of territoriality. Definitely not something I want to be involved with at all.

I am impressed that you know that "Killer Whales" are actually dolphins (in the dolphin "family"). Most people don't know that...everyone just has that image of "Flipper" and the dolphin "smile". Most people don't think of them as predators---just like sharks. In fact, I have also swum with wild dolphins (which is also an adrenaline rush----as is swimming with sea lions). I have never been nervous being in the water with sharks, but I was in the water with a pod of about 40 dolphins in the Galapagos---one of them was a baby and mama-dolphin was right by its side. That mama made me WAAAAAY more nervous than any 14 ft hammerhead! Dolphins are fun to be around, but they should be given the same respect (if not MORE) than sharks. In fact, sharks are afraid of dolphins and will make a hasty retreat out of the area if a dolphin shows up.

As for the Sea lions----also in the Galapagos (are you getting the picture why it's my favorite place to dive, even though I've only been there once?!)...I had just finished my dive and came up to the surface and threw my tank in the boat; I turned around (still in the water) and saw 8 sea lions on the surface splashing each other with their fins (!) and barking at each other) and I swam into the middle of them and started splashing them and they splashed me back!
That was another one of those days that Didn't Suck.

ricardisimo
02-27-2010, 03:28 AM
This is - to put it mildly - a different take on the matter:

Feed Pete Peterson to the Whales (http://www.counterpunch.org/****burn02262010.html)

By ALEXANDER ****BURN

Call him, just for now, Spartacus. He was two years old when the slavers captured him in 1982 and hauled him off to Oak Bay, near the town of Victoria, on Vancouver Island, British Columbia, in the far Canadian west. And there he met his fellow slaves, Nootka and Haida. Day after day, in slave school they learned their tricks. Day after day, they did their act for the paying customers. And then, on February 20, 1991, in the tank operated by Sealand of the Pacific, the three struck back at their captors.

Okay, not Spartacus, but an orca whale – Tillikum, the one who drowned 40-year-old Dawn Brancheau last Wednesday in the Shamu tank, at SeaWorld, Orlando, after grabbing her by her ponytail. Tillikum was caught off Iceland. Nootka and Haida, both females, were seized in the Pacific. In fact, Nootka was the third orca by that name to be bought by Sealand. The first two died within a year of their capture. At that time, enslaved orcas had a life expectancy in captivity of anywhere from one to four years. These days they do a bit better. In wild waters, orcas live to be anywhere from 30 to 60.

By the time of the 1991 slave revolt, Nootka III already had a couple of priors back in 1989, when she’d attacked trainers twice. Then, on Feb. 20, 1991, Keltie Byrne, a 20-year-old marine biology student, champion swimmer and part-time trainer, slipped while she was riding on the head of one of the orcas. Tillikum, Nootka and Haida took turns in dragging her beyond reach of trainers trying to hook her out with long poles. As Jason Hribal, author of our forthcoming CounterPunch/AK Press book Fear of the Animal Planet: The Hidden Story of Animal Resistance, reconstructed the episode on our CounterPunch site,

“‘The whale got her foot,’ an audience member recalled, ‘and pulled her in.’ We do not know which orca it was that started it, but all three, Nootka, Haida, and Tillikum, took their turns dunking the screaming woman underwater. ‘She went up and down three times,’ another visitor continued. The Sealand employees ‘almost got her once with the hook pole, but they couldn’t because the whales were moving so fast.’ One trainer tossed out a floatation ring, but the whales would not let her grab it. In fact, the closer that such devices got to the young woman, the further out the whales pulled her into the pool. It took park officials two hours to recover her drowned body.”

As is typical with theme parks in the business of exploiting animals, whether whales or elephants or some other captive breed, Sealand tried to pass off the disaster as a one-in-a-thousand mishap – sort of a bad-hair day for orcas. The citizens of Vancouver Island didn’t see it that way. Many said the whales had understandably mutinied against their ghastly imprisonment and exploitation and should be freed. They started picketing Sealand. The company trotted out the usual story that captive orcas actually like being slaves, forced to work 365 days a year, several times a day and, if freed, would swiftly die. What is meant here is that slave orcas are worth a lot of money – up to a cool million each, which explains why Russia has now lifted its ban on orca trafficking.

There are actually quite detailed Canadian laws governing the export of wild creatures. Sealand, soon to go out of business, got the permits by saying the whales needed to be sent south to the U.S. for “medical reasons.” Sold to the SeaWorld empire, Tillikum was shipped off under cover of darkness to Orlando, Florida. Nootka followed, and died there in 1994 at the age of 13. Haida and her calf Ky ended up in SeaWorld, San Antonio. Haida died in 2001 but imparted the spirit of rebellion to Ky, who nearly killed his trainer in 2004.

SeaWorld got its start in the mid-1960s, founded by four UCLA grads planning to run an underwater restaurant and marine life exhibit. After various ups and downs, in the late 1980s, the three SeaWorlds passed into the hands of the vast brewing conglomerate Annheuser-Busch, which pumped millions into upgrades, finally selling the theme parks to the Blackstone Group for $2.7 billion in 2009.

So, there’s a lot riding on the slave orcas toiling away (according to a SeaWorld official, as many as 8 times per a day, 365 days a year) as the star attractions in each of the Shamu stadiums. The first Shamu was put to work in the San Diego SeaWorld, now on its fifty-first “Shamu” – one of 20 enslaved orcas presently owned by Blackstone. Tillikum’s asset value is enhanced by his duties as a sperm donor. He’s a breeding “stud” often kept in solitary, away from the other orcas. One of his long-distance partners was Kasatka, at the San Diego slave facility. Kasatka was also captured off Iceland at the age of two, in 1978, and bought by SeaWorld, and has seen service for the company in Ohio, Texas, Florida and California, making three efforts in San Diego to kill her trainer – in 1993, 1999 and 2006. Her official SeaWorld bio refers chastely to the 1999 episode as “an incident” where she got “a bit aggressive”, whereupon – as a SeaWorld spokesman put it, she was sent “for some additional training and behavior modification.”

As Hribal writes,

“In order to see the world from Kasatka’s perspective, three facts need to be considered. First, there are no recorded incidences of orcas ‘in the wild’ attacking humans unprovoked. This is an institutional problem. Second, Kasatka and other performers have a long history of attacking trainers. Resistance in zoos and aquariums, in truth, is anything but unusual. Third, the zoological institutions themselves have to negotiate with their entertainers to extract labor and profit. Indeed, animal performers have agency, and zoos have always (privately, at least) acknowledged this. Therefore, the next time you hear about an orca attack, don't dismiss it from above: ‘Animals will be animals.’ But, instead, look from below: ‘These creatures resist work, and can occasionally land a counterpunch or two of their own.’”

All the SeaWorld shows should be shut down, as should all kindred exhibits. If it’s judged by an independent panel that the artificially bred orcas simply couldn’t hack it in the wild blue yonder, let them laze around in their pools and toss them an occasional corporate executive, perhaps starting with slave-owner Pete Peterson, co-founder of Blackstone, a public pest who richly deserves an orca jaw clamped on his ankle.

For those who think the references to slavery are excessive, remember the words of Frederic Douglass, quoted by Hribal. Douglass often made direct comparisons between the treatment and use of other animals and that of himself. “When purchased, my old master probably thought as little of my advent, as he would have thought of the addition of a single pig to his stock! Like a wild young working animal, I am to be broken to the yoke of a bitter and life-long bondage. Indeed, I now saw, in my situation, several points of similarity with that of the oxen. They were property, so was I; they were to be broken, so was I; Convey was to break me, I was to break them; break and be broken – such is life.”

Maybe, in the wake of Tillikum’s lethal onslaught on Dawn Brancheau, lover of orcas, in Orlando earlier this week, they taped his whale talk to his seven fellow prisoners. Maybe, one day they’ll decode them. I doubt there was contrition. He was probably pointing out that although the act of rebellion was entirely justified, the aesthetics of orca exploitation by humans were such that he’d actually upped his remaining profit potential – he’s 30 now – for Blackstone. As one entertainment consultant pointed out, attendance will probably go up for “Shamu” shows. Orcas after all are “killer whales,” and the public needs to be reminded of this once in a while.

P.S. - That is hysterical! They asterisked out the author's last name!

Bng_Hevn
02-27-2010, 12:30 PM
Judging by the way they kept the trainer out of reach I'd say they are extremely smart. And who is to say they "don't know" what they are doing.

If I were them, I'd eat someone at every show. They are worth so much that they can't just be "put down" and the owners would probably suffer legal issues if they chose to kill them opposed to setting them free.

I can't stand the whole "They'd die in the wild" argument. Even if it's true, do you think they would rather die in captivity or freedom? Besides, whales are probably an exception to that theory. They don't really have to hunt, they just eat plankton and such, right? So how hard is it to find food for them?

Or would they die due to not knowing how to swim? I don't get it.

Nadroj 20
02-27-2010, 12:35 PM
Judging by the way they kept the trainer out of reach I'd say they are extremely smart. And who is to say they "don't know" what they are doing.

If I were them, I'd eat someone at every show. They are worth so much that they can't just be "put down" and the owners would probably suffer legal issues if they chose to kill them opposed to setting them free.

I can't stand the whole "They'd die in the wild" argument. Even if it's true, do you think they would rather die in captivity or freedom? Besides, whales are probably an exception to that theory. They don't really have to hunt, they just eat plankton and such, right? So how hard is it to find food for them?

Or would they die due to not knowing how to swim? I don't get it.

Orcas are hunter and they mainly hunt seals and being given food for a long time in captivty could make it hard for them to adjust and have to actually go track down and kill food.

Thats the thought anyway

For the most part i would say most of them would be fine in the wild. "Instinct" would kick in and theyd be fine i think.

SteelCityMom
02-27-2010, 01:00 PM
Judging by the way they kept the trainer out of reach I'd say they are extremely smart. And who is to say they "don't know" what they are doing.

If I were them, I'd eat someone at every show. They are worth so much that they can't just be "put down" and the owners would probably suffer legal issues if they chose to kill them opposed to setting them free.

I can't stand the whole "They'd die in the wild" argument. Even if it's true, do you think they would rather die in captivity or freedom? Besides, whales are probably an exception to that theory. They don't really have to hunt, they just eat plankton and such, right? So how hard is it to find food for them?

Or would they die due to not knowing how to swim? I don't get it.

No, like Nadroj said...they are avid hunters and if they spend too much time in captivity and not with their pod, they cannot hunt in the wild properly, and they still often die much earlier deaths than they would had they never been captured. Also, whales eat plankton and such...Orca's are not whales. Here's a couple of interesting vids about Orca's hunting seals and sharks.

Hunting a seal...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3xmqbNsRSk



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SteelCityMom
02-27-2010, 01:10 PM
Orcas are hunter and they mainly hunt seals and being given food for a long time in captivty could make it hard for them to adjust and have to actually go track down and kill food.

Thats the thought anyway

For the most part i would say most of them would be fine in the wild. "Instinct" would kick in and theyd be fine i think.

No, it's not just a matter of their instincts kicking back in. They can be trained to hunt for their own fish and to swim large distances, but it's not a given for every whale being reintroduced. And there's never been a case of a whale becoming socially acceptable again...they usually remain dependent on human contact, as was the case with Keiko (the Orca that Free Willy was based off of...the ending they never gave you).

http://www.oceanfutures.org/news/blog/statement-releasing-captive-orcas
http://www.ehow.com/about_4567882_effects-captivity-killer-whales.html

supa_fly_steeler
02-27-2010, 01:12 PM
A healthy strong great white would massacre a pod of orcas one by one through the misty depths of the ocean.

Which one would you rather been eaten alive by?

Nadroj 20
02-27-2010, 01:17 PM
No, it's not just a matter of their instincts kicking back in. They can be trained to hunt for their own fish and to swim large distances, but it's not a given for every whale being reintroduced. And there's never been a case of a whale becoming socially acceptable again...they usually remain dependent on human contact, as was the case with Keiko (the Orca that Free Willy was based off of...the ending they never gave you).

http://www.oceanfutures.org/news/blog/statement-releasing-captive-orcas
http://www.ehow.com/about_4567882_effects-captivity-killer-whales.html

Ok that was just a guess that i took lol.....i thought they would probably adjust and be fine not all but some maybe. Thanks for the info :thumbsup: i think its all pretty interesting.

The whole thing is a shame though isnt it?

lamberts-lost-tooth
02-27-2010, 02:25 PM
Wife in your face------Great Whites in your face
Wife in your face-------Great White sharks in your face

Oh, the choices we must make!


.....thinking.....thinking.....:huh:

Edman
02-27-2010, 03:00 PM
There is no such thing as a "tame" Orca. Only captive ones. They're wild animals. It is their natural instinct to kill.

No amount of "taming" will ever wipe out the instinct of a wild creature. This whale has killed before. Why are people acting so surprised?

They're called Killer Whales for a reason. Too bad for the trainer, but this Orca show charade has gone on long enough. How many more people have to die before this stops?

SteelCityMom
02-27-2010, 03:46 PM
A healthy strong great white would massacre a pod of orcas one by one through the misty depths of the ocean.

Which one would you rather been eaten alive by?

Sharks are afraid of Orca's and other species of dolphins simply because even one Orca can take out a healthy Great White...let alone a whole pod working together. Sharks are more scavenger hunters anyway...trust me, they don't want none of a pod of Orcas lol.

Personally, I'd take my chances with the sharks. They hunt only to eat and humans are far from being a favorite on their menu. Most likely you'll be bitten and let go. If an Orca gets it in his/her head that it wants to attack you, it's going to do it for a different reason than it thinks your food...and it won't leave you alive.


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SteelCityMom
02-27-2010, 03:53 PM
Ok that was just a guess that i took lol.....i thought they would probably adjust and be fine not all but some maybe. Thanks for the info :thumbsup: i think its all pretty interesting.

The whole thing is a shame though isnt it?

It is definitely a shame. And yes, in the future some may be fine being reintroduced into the wild, but you have to remember that they are a pack mentality animal and all Orca's that are taken from the wild are taken at a very young age. They never learn the proper pack skills needed to survive. It's the same way that captive elephants that are taken at a very young age have a lot of problems with being reintroduced into the wild. It's also a very long and expensive process. We (humans) would just be better off to leave them alone and study them in their natural habitat.

tony hipchest
02-27-2010, 03:59 PM
Personally, I'd take my chances with the sharks. They hunt only to eat and humans are far from being a favorite on their menu. Most likely you'll be bitten and let go. If an Orca gets it in his/her head that it wants to attack you, it's going to do it for a different reason than it thinks your food...and it won't leave you alive.yep, and you atleast got a fighting chance with a shark by punching it in the nose, or atleast trying to gouge its eyeballs.

an orka will attack because they pretty much know humans are dicks. a shark will attack not even knowing what a human is, take a bite, and usually spit it out, because as food is concerned, we pretty much taste like shit.

Nadroj 20
02-27-2010, 04:07 PM
yep, and you atleast got a fighting chance with a shark by punching it in the nose, or atleast trying to gouge its eyeballs.

an orka will attack because they pretty much know humans are dicks. a shark will attack not even knowing what a human is, take a bite, and usually spit it out, because as food is concerned, we pretty much taste like shit.

Yea mistaken identity....sharks usually dont know what you are they bite you to see what you are, not to harm you but basically using their mouth as the hands they dont have to see whats going on....once they realize what you are they leave you alone usually. (not all the time but most of the time)

43Hitman
02-27-2010, 05:30 PM
Actually they aren't Killer Whales they are Whale Killers. Look it up. They changed the name years ago to generate more appeal. I have also heard that fisherman called them Killer Whales because they witnessed them killing whales.

ricardisimo
02-28-2010, 12:28 AM
Not only did the forum bot asterisk out the name of the author of that article, is did the same in the link to the article, which also bears his name. This might prove problematic, since I like the guy, and might want to cite him more often.

How does one link to a guy named Alexander C o c k b u r n in these forums?

Borski
02-28-2010, 12:34 AM
Not only did the forum bot asterisk out the name of the author of that article, is did the same in the link to the article, which also bears his name. This might prove problematic, since I like the guy, and might want to cite him more often.

How does one link to a guy named Alexander C o c k b u r n in these forums?

Try Highlighting some text and click the "Create Link" button (looks like a globe with a chain link in front)

Like this: Steelers Fever (Steelersfever.com)

ricardisimo
02-28-2010, 12:37 AM
Try Highlighting some text and click the "Create Link" button (looks like a globe with a chain link in front)

Like this: Steelers Fever (Steelersfever.com)

No, I know how to create the link, and did so in my earlier post. The problem is that this fellow's last name is "C o c k b u r n", and the forum's robot automatically replaced the first four letters of his name with " **** ", not only in the text of my post, but in the link as well, therefore changing the address completely.

Maybe I should just request that his last name be whitelisted.

Edit: Done.

SteelCityMom
02-28-2010, 12:52 AM
No, I know how to create the link, and did so in my earlier post. The problem is that this fellow's last name is "C o c k b u r n", and the forum's robot automatically replaced the first four letters of his name with " **** ", not only in the text of my post, but in the link as well, therefore changing the address completely.

Maybe I should just request that his last name be whitelisted.

Edit: Done.

I know...Hitchco.ck gets blocked as well. Just put a period or space in and you'll be fine.

Shea
02-28-2010, 01:40 AM
.....thinking.....thinking.....:huh:

:sofunny:

I understand the need to take your time to ponder such a situation, but what answer did you come up with? I'm curious ...... :chuckle:

SteelersinCA
02-28-2010, 11:06 AM
No, I know how to create the link, and did so in my earlier post. The problem is that this fellow's last name is "C o c k b u r n", and the forum's robot automatically replaced the first four letters of his name with " **** ", not only in the text of my post, but in the link as well, therefore changing the address completely.

Maybe I should just request that his last name be whitelisted.

Edit: Done.

You know the theory or wives tale that last names are sometimes generated by experiences in life? Like John Smith was a smith and what not? I wonder what exactly coc.kburn did?

Nadroj 20
02-28-2010, 11:08 AM
You know the theory or wives tale that last names are sometimes generated by experiences in life? Like John Smith was a smith and what not? I wonder what exactly coc.kburn did?

:laughing: :rofl: :chuckle:

HometownGal
02-28-2010, 11:44 AM
i don't barge into ladies lockerooms i get invited :flap:

UE6iAjEv9dQ

ricardisimo
02-28-2010, 01:14 PM
You know the theory or wives tale that last names are sometimes generated by experiences in life? Like John Smith was a smith and what not? I wonder what exactly coc.kburn did?

There are at least two answers to that. The first is the formal etymology:
This long-established surname, with the variation Coburn, is of early medieval Scottish origin, and is a territorial name from the lands so named in the Merse, Berwickshire. The component elements of the placename are either the Olde English pre 7th Century "cocc", ****, wild bird, or the Olde English "cocc", hill, with "burna", small spring, brook, stream; hence, "stream frequented by wild birds", or "hill by a stream". In the reign of William the Lion (1165 - 1214) there was a district called "Cukoueburn" in the territory of Clifton, Roxburghshire, and the surname may, in some instances, derive from this source. Locational surnames were originally given to local landowners, and the lord of the manor, and especially as a means of identification to those who left their birthplace to settle elsewhere. One John de Kocburn was a landowner in Fife, circa 1250, and Robert de Cokburne "miles" was mentioned in the Exchequer Rolls of Scotland (1266). In the early 16th Century some ****burns who settled in Danzig had their name changed to "Kaburn" and "Coburn" as a result of dialectal influences. Notable bearers of the name were Sir George ****burn (1772 - 1853), admiral, who conveyed Napoleon to St. Helena (1815); and Sir Alexander James Edmund ****burn (1802 - 1880), lord chief-justice of England. A Coat of Arms granted to the family is a silver shield with three red ****s, the Crest being a **** crowing, and the Motto "Accendit cantu", translates as "He animates by crowing". The first recorded spelling of the family name is shown to be that of Peter de Cokburne, witness to a grant, which was dated 1190, in the "Register of the House of Soltre", during the reign of King William "The Lion" of Scotland, 1165 - 1214. Surnames became necessary when governments introduced personal taxation. In England this was known as Poll Tax. Throughout the centuries, surnames in every country have continued to "develop" often leading to astonishing variants of the original spelling.
And the second is to Google Alexander C o c k b u r n's niece (http://www.google.com/search?q=Olivia+Wilde&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=com.ubuntu:en-US:official&client=firefox-a).

SteelersinCA
02-28-2010, 11:53 PM
I prefer the latter.

lamberts-lost-tooth
03-01-2010, 09:09 AM
:sofunny:

I understand the need to take your time to ponder such a situation, but what answer did you come up with? I'm curious ...... :chuckle:

:uhh: Uhhhh....well....I....uhhhh....SQUIRREL!!!!:cya:

43Hitman
03-01-2010, 10:19 AM
:uhh: Uhhhh....well....I....uhhhh....SQUIRREL!!!!:cya:

:rofl:

tony hipchest
03-01-2010, 10:29 AM
im taking my daughter to sea world in about a month. i asked her if she wanted to go see them feed people to the whales. she said yeah but then asked if she had to get in the tank. when i said no, she said "oh, okay" with a smile.

sadly she is a little twisted and probably wouldnt be too traumatized witnessing such a horrific event. she may have even snickered. she laughs at JAWS (especially when he gets "blowed up").

GBMelBlount
03-01-2010, 11:28 AM
im taking my daughter to sea world in about a month. i asked her if she wanted to go see them feed people to the whales. she said yeah but then asked if she had to get in the tank. when i said no, she said "oh, okay" with a smile.

sadly she is a little twisted and probably wouldnt be too traumatized witnessing such a horrific event. she may have even snickered. she laughs at JAWS (especially when he gets "blowed up").

Well, they say the apple doesn't fall far from the tree. :chuckle:

Borski
03-01-2010, 10:08 PM
I was at that Sea World today, they reopened the Orca exhibit and those creatures are so amazing and massive. they put on a great show but you see by just how big they are, 1 tiny little thing they do can easily do a lot of harm to us, weather they mean to or not.

supa_fly_steeler
03-01-2010, 11:12 PM
i wouldnt jump in a container with those beasts they should roam free, i aint feel like i wanna be tuna bait.

i hate seeing the animals like them in a small enclouser its cruel there big for a reason and the sea is theirs and mine but they get it more than we do.

I was at that Sea World today, they reopened the Orca exhibit and those creatures are so amazing and massive. they put on a great show but you see by just how big they are, 1 tiny little thing they do can easily do a lot of harm to us, weather they mean to or not.

Was their blood stained all over the seats i heard she was ripped apart dunno if true though

edit: our news was lying no vicious attack.

http://www.seaworld.com/sitepage.aspx?PageID=375 (whale cam)

they put dolphins in the same exhibit as the killer whales i thought they were meals for the whales lol

http://inlinethumb25.webshots.com/40600/2248080610103329676S600x600Q85.jpg

Tilikum was at the scene of a death on July 6, 1999. A 27-year-old male intruder was found floating naked in Tilikum’s pool, apparently killed by a combination of hypothermia and drowning. He had visited SeaWorld the previous day, stayed after the park closed, and evaded security to enter the Orca tank.[35] Investigators determined that the man had been bitten by Tilikum either before or after death.

Off wikipedia we are like tuna to them lol You Don't Mess with the Whales lol burglar got ate

Shea
03-01-2010, 11:32 PM
I was hoping this tragedy would set this whale free, but after reading up on this I've learned that the famed whale in Free Willy ended up dying, emaciated and diseased, after he was released into the wild. He couldn't adapt after being in captivity for so long.

Call me crazy - and I call all you guys the same who get into waters where there are sharks - but I'd love to swim with these animals. They've always fascinated me and I can imagine how much of an amazing experience it would be.

supa_fly_steeler
03-01-2010, 11:36 PM
I was hoping this tragedy would set this whale free, but after reading up on this I've learned that the famed whale in Free Willy ended up dying, emaciated and diseased, after he was released into the wild. He couldn't adapt after being in captivity for so long.

Call me crazy - and I call all you guys the same who get into waters where there are sharks - but I'd love to swim with these animals. They've always fascinated me and I can imagine how much of an amazing experience it would be.

You crazy, it appears the males are far more aggresive.

Yea they can't go back into the wild because they don't know how to hunt. It's a sad life they lead for the price of an admission ticket

Borski
03-02-2010, 12:18 AM
Was their blood stained all over the seats i heard she was ripped apart dunno if true though

edit: our news was lying no vicious attack.

http://www.seaworld.com/sitepage.aspx?PageID=375 (whale cam)

they put dolphins in the same exhibit as the killer whales i thought they were meals for the whales lol


No there all no Dolphins in that exhibit, the dolphin show is on the other side of the park.


Also with the man that died in the exhibit a few years ago, according to reports when he was found it appeared Tilly was trying to hold him up at the surface to keep him from drowning (though he was already dead)

Borski
03-02-2010, 12:23 AM
I was hoping this tragedy would set this whale free, but after reading up on this I've learned that the famed whale in Free Willy ended up dying, emaciated and diseased, after he was released into the wild. He couldn't adapt after being in captivity for so long.

Call me crazy - and I call all you guys the same who get into waters where there are sharks - but I'd love to swim with these animals. They've always fascinated me and I can imagine how much of an amazing experience it would be.

I don't think your crazy. though they are dangerous animals, I would much rather risk swimming with Orcas or Dolphins (preferably Dolphins) then Sharks. While all are wild and are unpredictable the intelligence of Orcas and Dolphins and they less aggressive history torawed humans would make me rather spend time with them. plus, orcas and dolphins are more fun and playful creatures.