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mesaSteeler
03-02-2010, 08:12 PM
Ryan Clark in his own words: "I want to be here, my family likes it here. I want to finish playing with Troy."
http://www.behindthesteelcurtain.com/2010/3/2/1332920/ryan-clark-in-his-own-words-i-want
by Blitzburgh on Mar 2, 2010 4:20 AM EST Comment 32 comments

Below is an interview with Ryan Clark and Mike Logan that aired on The Drive on 1250 ESPN Pittsburgh this afternoon. Clark specifically wanted to call Logan - who he says he feels comfortable talking to - to clear the air about how contract negotiations are going with him and the Steelers. Well, apparently nowhere because, according to Clark, there has been no offer whatsoever made to Clark, not even a low-ball offer that he might have to consider passing on at his age.

I've transcribed the portion of the interview below. I'll let you form your own judgments, but I will say that it's worth listening to Clark speak passionately rather than merely reading the transcription. On the one hand, it's apparent Clark really wants to remain in Pittsburgh, to be shown love by the Steelers organization. On the other, Clark's passionate demeanor seems to occasionally make him abrasive or overly intense/aggressive in his characterizations. Remember him lashing out at the media and Steelers fans last season when the team was on it's mid-season slide?

Anyway, here's how I see it as of today. If the organization has truly not offered Clark any sort of deal and have already opted not to use the transition tag on Clark for the 2010 season, then the organization must have their eye on some free agent out there that they're willing to pay for. I suppose they could also be eying some high draft pick to play significant time right away alongside Polamalu, but that seems a bit less likely considering the mental demands necessary at that position.

We'll see. I love Clark when he's playing with #43. Regardless of what happens, I'll remember him fondly for the role he played on our nasty 2008 defense, and for the all-out abandon he played with every time he took the field for the Steelers.

Here's the quotes I found most intriguing, followed by a link to the entire interview.

***************

"To be honest with you guys, I haven't had an offer yet. Nothing put to paper or even said verbally. You know, we want to get this deal done. I've bent over backwards to get it done. You hear so much you being a priority and things like that, and if you think about it, there's been a number of guys who've signed contracts, and I haven't been offered one. There's been Heath Miller, Justin Hartwig, Brett Keisel, Casey, Jeff. So it's not like it was one guy got signed, the well ran dry and there was nothing they can do. It hasn't been that, so if you think about priorities and prioritizing, I was way down on the list."

"I'm going to ask the $6.5, $7 million a year - I wouldn't do that. I know how much Troy makes, and I know how much respect I have for Troy as a player and how much I love him as a friend. I don't see myself as Troy, I don't see myself as having to get that type of paid. So it's not a situation of me saying you gotta pay me how Troy's being paid. I'd be a fool to do that."

"You know, they showed their level of commitment to Jeff, even though it's one year. $2.8 million dollars. Heath Miller, Justin Hartwig - all these guys have been shown some type of love that says 'you know what, we want you here. We're willing to work to get you here.' I haven't gotten that. I'm frustrated and the reason I agreed to come on, but also to do it to someone I was close to, was because I felt like some things needed to be cleared up."

"I'm specifically saying I'm not asking for $6.5 - $7 million dollars. It's not a situation to where people were saying where they didn't transition tag him because they don't feel like he's worth that much, he's not going to get paid that much. Well, we didn't ask for that much. It's not a situation where we're being unreasonable, or I'm being unreasonable. I want to be here, my family likes it here. I want to finish playing with Troy. Some of my best friends are on this team and in this city. But right now, what I'm saying is it's not in my hands."

Listen here to Clark's full interview with Mike Logan on 1250 ESPN Pittsburgh
http://espn.go.com/espnradio/player?rd=1#/podcenter/?id=4957162&autoplay=1

SteelersMongol
03-02-2010, 08:31 PM
I think I would feel the same way if i was in his shoes.

Northside Jonny
03-02-2010, 08:44 PM
When the CBA expires the team will get another transition tag maybee they use it on Clark.:doh:

AllD
03-02-2010, 09:02 PM
Maybe they want to see what the market bears. Maybe management does not want him back. The silence is deafening if true.

OneForTheToe
03-02-2010, 09:11 PM
When the CBA expires the team will get another transition tag maybee they use it on Clark.:doh:


Once the CBA expires (after the 2010 - 2011 season) there will be no transition tags, no franchise tags, and probably no football for a while.

supa_fly_steeler
03-02-2010, 10:07 PM
If they haven't tried to give him a deal yet then he's obviously not the guy they want going forward

GameTime55
03-02-2010, 10:14 PM
If they haven't tried to give him a deal yet then he's obviously not the guy they want going forward

Got to agree. Theres got to be something out there in fa or through the draft I guess. I dont know how quickly team will show their hand come Friday but right now they appear not to be bluffing about letting him go.

steelreserve
03-02-2010, 10:14 PM
He does have a good point about making less money than the kicker. Doh.

supa_fly_steeler
03-02-2010, 10:19 PM
There not going to offer Gay a contract either...

Our defensive backs list is going slimmer by the weeks

steelreserve
03-02-2010, 10:34 PM
There not going to offer Gay a contract either...

Our defensive backs list is going slimmer by the weeks

Dude .. they are not going to let go of Gay when they can try him out for one more year, relatively cheap with no strings attached. If he wanted a long-term deal, yes. But the RFA designation was practically invented for that guy.

supa_fly_steeler
03-02-2010, 10:43 PM
Dude .. they are not going to let go of Gay when they can try him out for one more year, relatively cheap with no strings attached. If he wanted a long-term deal, yes. But the RFA designation was practically invented for that guy.

I don't want them to but that's the rumours i been hearing hopefully not.

Northside Jonny
03-02-2010, 11:19 PM
Dude .. they are not going to let go of Gay when they can try him out for one more year, relatively cheap with no strings attached. If he wanted a long-term deal, yes. But the RFA designation was practically invented for that guy.

I agree Guess him and Arians have one year to get there shit together.

wootawnee
03-03-2010, 01:22 AM
Were gonna sign him....We just wanted to see the combine first.........

steelerdude15
03-03-2010, 01:22 AM
I've never been really impressed with Gay, this will be his make or break year IMO. Clark hasn't really impressed me either, but he has been somewhat of an impact in the Steelers DB. I wouldn't mind seeing him stick around, but if we could get younger and better in the draft, I say go for it.

Galax Steeler
03-03-2010, 04:40 AM
I will say that they will let Clark test the market and see what he can get. The draft is full of players that can replace him. Hopefully we get one in the first rounds this year.

pete74
03-03-2010, 05:34 AM
i posted this earlier and it really pissed me off that he didnt get offered any contract whatsoever. he definatly earned that i thought.

Rick5895
03-03-2010, 05:43 AM
I will say that they will let Clark test the market and see what he can get. The draft is full of players that can replace him. Hopefully we get one in the first rounds this year.

It would be dangerous to let a vet like Clark test the open market. He will get a good offer from somebody, and because of the way talks have apparently gone, he might not give the Steelers a chance to match. My bet is an offer will come prior to the deadline, then the ball will be in Clarks corner. The one thing that concerns me though is the amount of talking Clark and his agent have done in the press. Although it is not really negative, the Steelers don't do business that way and it might be a bit off putting to them.
As for the draft, we need a safety for sure, but expecting a rookie to start at safety in this D is dangerous, Troy was unable to and it certainly isn't feasible to expect any one from this crop of players to be able to either.

pete74
03-03-2010, 09:15 AM
we would of already signed clark or at least made him an offer if he was in our future plans. he's as good as gone

CanadianSteel
03-03-2010, 11:10 AM
Its too bad as it appears Clark may be indeed a goner - as someone posted earlier the silence is defining.
I agree that he earned at least an offer from the Steelers, even if it was a bit of a lowball compared to what he could command in FA.

Always loved his attitude on the field, and off, as he appears to "get" what being a "Steeler" player means.
After the Bengals home game last year, I watched the players come out aftre the game and head to their cars families etc... and no-one was really signing autographs or acknowledging the fans that lined the walk. ( Cant say I blame them after tough loss either) but when Ryan came along he was all smiles and chatted with Steeler fans, signed a few autographs and carried himself like a true professional.
Not saying I blame the other players either.... but Clark seems to appreciate being a Steeler IMO..

Question for those who follow things a little closer than I do - we all know Clark hits like a truck - but are his coverage skills easily replacable in your opinions ?

:noidea:

xbroughneck
03-03-2010, 11:43 AM
Question for those who follow things a little closer than I do - we all know Clark hits like a truck - but are his coverage skills easily replacable in your opinions ?

:noidea:

Undrafted FS who has limited # of interceptions but hits hard.


Replaceable? Most definitely.
Easily? Only time will tell.

The idea may be that Mundy is our short term solution at safety while the guy we draft...Mays, Thomas, Allen or Rolle...mature into the position.

People, you've got to remember. Clark wasn't drafted.

vrabinec
03-03-2010, 11:58 AM
The idea may be that Mundy is our short term solution at safety while the guy we draft...Mays, Thomas, Allen or Rolle...mature into the position.
.

+1

This is one of the best drafts for safeties I've ever seen. Mundy can hold down the fort until the draft pick is ready to step in. We all like how hard Clark hits, but let's face it, he was one of the coverage problems we had. I'll give up the Welker and McGahee hits to get a guy who gets over to the receiver in time to stop the TD late in the Oakland game.

supa_fly_steeler
03-03-2010, 12:03 PM
Isn't it a bit of a stretch putting Mundy in just after being a 3rd backup? He could have mistakes

Tomlin said Mundy sealed his fate with the team by getting that interception vs Carolina.... That pretty much says if he had not had that game he would of been cut...

It's a cloudy situation to say the least because Carter won't be back.

kirklandrules
03-03-2010, 01:50 PM
Two thoughts here:
1) Clark's agent is looking for top dollar and I think the FO is standing their ground. When Clark states he hasn't received an offer, his agent really says otherwise. His agent has said they have negotiated but they are so far apart that he doesn't see a deal happening. So Clark is complaining that he hasn't even been given an offer, when in fact, his agent is over asking and the Steelers aren't going to make an official offer when it will be quickly rejected. It's not that the Steelers aren't showing him the love, it's that his d-bag agent is pricing him out of the Steelers market. I like Clark, but he's not riding his agent to find a price that will keep him here. This is like Faneca who felt insulted that the Steelers offered him something lower than he would accept.

2) To say that Clark is just a heavy hitter and not a good coverage guy, that's really not true. When we see a touchdown pass against the D, we really don't know where the breakdown in coverage occurred (because we don't know what Coach L. called). As I've said in prior posts, Clark was not getting burned in 2008 and played the ball very well (just look up his passes defended stat). Last year he had Carter next to him and Willie Guy in front of him and Farrior, who everyone claims lost a step, up front. At the NFL level, you won't look good when everyone around you looks so bad. This poor guy was so busy covering for his teammates after they got burned that, us folks watching from the stands or at home, probably thought he was the weak link.

xbroughneck
03-03-2010, 01:52 PM
Isn't it a bit of a stretch putting Mundy in just after being a 3rd backup? He could have mistakes

Tomlin said Mundy sealed his fate with the team by getting that interception vs Carolina.... That pretty much says if he had not had that game he would of been cut...

It's a cloudy situation to say the least because Carter won't be back.

None of that changes the fact that replacing Ryan Clark via the draft may be a top priority this year, and not with a low draft pick (Mundy was a low draft pick last year).

I'd like to have Ryan back AND use that first round pick on 1) a safety, and if a good one isn't available 2) a corner that could play corner OR safety.

xbroughneck
03-03-2010, 01:56 PM
Two thoughts here:
1) Clark's agent is looking for top dollar and I think the FO is standing their ground. When Clark states he hasn't received an offer, his agent really says otherwise. His agent has said they have negotiated but they are so far apart that he doesn't see a deal happening. So Clark is complaining that he hasn't even been given an offer, when in fact, his agent is over asking and the Steelers aren't going to make an official offer when it will be quickly rejected. It's not that the Steelers aren't showing him the love, it's that his d-bag agent is pricing him out of the Steelers market. I like Clark, but he's not riding his agent to find a price that will keep him here. This is like Faneca who felt insulted that the Steelers offered him something lower than he would accept.

2) To say that Clark is just a heavy hitter and not a good coverage guy, that's really not true. When we see a touchdown pass against the D, we really don't know where the breakdown in coverage occurred (because we don't know what Coach L. called). As I've said in prior posts, Clark was not getting burned in 2008 and played the ball very well (just look up his passes defended stat). Last year he had Carter next to him and Willie Guy in front of him and Farrior, who everyone claims lost a step, up front. At the NFL level, you won't look good when everyone around you looks so bad. This poor guy was so busy covering for his teammates after they got burned that, us folks watching from the stands or at home, probably thought he was the weak link.

I wasn't one that thought he was a weak link. I think he's better at his position than William Gay is at corner, and he's definitely better at his position than Tyrone Carter is at strong safety.

If he comes back, I'll be content.

Thing is though, both he and Troy, due to their style of play, get hurt a lot. We need GOOD depth at the safety spot because of that and Ryan Mundy is not that guy. Neither is Deshea Townsend.

Ryan Clark is good enough, but he gets hurt a lot.

And if Tyrone Carter is starting then Ryan Clark is NOT good enough.

Nadroj 20
03-03-2010, 02:13 PM
I wasn't one that thought he was a weak link. I think he's better at his position than William Gay is at corner, and he's definitely better at his position than Tyrone Carter is at strong safety.

If he comes back, I'll be content.

Thing is though, both he and Troy, due to their style of play, get hurt a lot. We need GOOD depth at the safety spot because of that and Ryan Mundy is not that guy. Neither is Deshea Townsend.

Ryan Clark is good enough, but he gets hurt a lot.

And if Tyrone Carter is starting then Ryan Clark is NOT good enough.

I agree, Troy and Clark work well together when they are both on the field, but like you said with their style of play that is hard to accomplish because at least one is banged up....if we can get a guy to give us some more depth that will be really valuable.

stb_steeler
03-03-2010, 02:15 PM
There not going to offer Gay a contract either...

Our defensive backs list is going slimmer by the weeks

No big loss there!!!

ricksteelers55
03-03-2010, 02:34 PM
Got to agree with some of you folks,I mean I love the guy,but maybe it's time to find a younger partner to Troy.What happen if we play Denver in AFCC ? Ryan is a good player with Troy but he has some health issues and unfortunately this sport is now a business and we need to think about it when we invest any money.

Steelers>NFL
03-03-2010, 03:04 PM
I love Clark and his play. But I am ok with bringing someone younger and cheaper.
We need to get younger on defense. And need to start now. We can not keep resigning
all of the players that are over 30. Time to re-load with youth.

mesaSteeler
03-03-2010, 10:15 PM
Steelers: Agent says Clark still awaits offer from club
Wednesday, March 03, 2010
By Ed Bouchette, Pittsburgh Post-Gazette
http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/10062/1039776-66.stm?cmpid=steelers.xml

Ryan Clark likely will become an unrestricted free agent Friday, his agent believes, and may do so without receiving an offer from the Steelers.

Joel Turner told the Post-Gazette Tuesday that "If I had to take an educated guess, I'd say the probability of him being a free agent is greater than him being signed."

Turner began negotiating for a new contract for the Steelers' starting free safety one year ago and said he has never received an offer. With two days left before Clark can begin free negotiations with other NFL teams, the sides are nowhere near a deal.

"They haven't put actual dollar figures on paper," Turner said. "We've put together several different proposals of various levels and at this point, it's probably going to be a test of wills."

Clark told ESPN Radio 1250 that even though the Steelers identified him as a "priority" he does not feel that way because of how the negotiations have gone. He pointed to a number of Steelers who signed contract extensions last year as well as the new contract reached last week with Casey Hampton and the franchise tag placed on Jeff Reed.

"I haven't had an offer yet," Clark told the radio station's The Drive show.

"Nothing put to paper or said verbally. We want to get this deal done."

Steelers executives, including director of football operations Kevin Colbert, announced their three priorities to sign before free agency began were Clark, Hampton and Reed.

"You hear so much about being a priority and things like that," Clark said. "I mean, if you think about it, there have been a number of guys who have signed a contract and I haven't been offered -- Heath Miller, Justin Hartwig, Brett Keisel, Casey [Hampton], Jeff. So it's not like one guy got signed and the well ran dry and there was nothing they could do. It hasn't been that. If you think about priorities and prioritizing, obviously I was way down on the list as they go."

Clark said he is not asking for an average of $6 1/2 or $7 million annually in a new contract. Pro Bowl safety Troy Polamalu signed a new five-year contract in 2007 worth $33 million or $6.6 million annually.

"I know how much Troy makes and I know how much respect I have for Troy as a player and how much I love him as a friend," Clark said. "I don't see myself as Troy's [equal], I don't see myself having to get that same type of pay. So it's not a situation, 'Oh, you have to pay me how Troy's getting paid.' I would be a fool to do that. "

Clark complained that he is not getting the same kind of "love" shown other players who signed new deals with the Steelers.

"They showed their love and commitment to Jeff even though it's only one year, $2.8 million [and] Keisel, Miller, Hartwig, all these guys have been shown some type of love that says 'You know what, we want you here, we're willing to work with you to get you here.' I haven't gotten it."

Clark reiterated that he and his family want to remain in Pittsburgh but that it is out of his hands. His agent said while there have been no offers from the ballclub, they have talked in "parameters."

"They've talked with us almost ad nauseum, and it's not like parameters haven't exchanged hands," Turner said. "That's how you negotiate. But obviously at this point, we have different values than the organization. I feel he's the best free safety out there and, if the Steelers do not sign him, it will leave a gaping hole in their defense."
For more on the Steelers, read Ed Bouchette on the Steelers at www.post-gazette.com/plus. Ed Bouchette: ebouchette@post-gazette.com.

Read more: http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/10062/1039776-66.stm?cmpid=steelers.xml#ixzz0hAqpdAtB

mesaSteeler
03-03-2010, 10:16 PM
Clock ticking for Steelers and Clark
March 3rd, 2010
http://blog.triblive.com/view-from-the-press-box/2010/03/03/clock-ticking-for-steelers-and-clark/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+triblive%2Fblog%2FViewFromThe PressBox+%28View+from+the+Press+Box+Blog%29

With the clock ticking, the agent for free safety Ryan Clark said he and the Steelers are in contract negotiations, but he is not “terribly optimistic” that the two sides will get a deal done before midnight on Thursday.

“The reality is we’re just not in agreement on what he’s worth,” Clark’s agent, Joel Turner, said Wednesday afternoon.

Director of football operation Kevin Colbert said the Steelers want to sign Clark to a new contract but they lose exclusive negotiating rights with him at 12:01 a.m. Friday when the free agent signing period starts.

If Clark, who has been a starter with the Steelers since signing a four-year deal with them in 2006, hits the open market another team will likely determine his market value.

Clark tied for the team lead in interceptions (three) last season. He finished second on the Steelers with 89 tackles.

Clark, 30, has said he wants to stay with the Steelers. If he signs elsewhere it would leave the Steelers thin at free safety and probably needing to address the position either in free agency or the NFL draft in April.

Clark will be one of the top free safeties available if the Steelers don’t sign him before Friday.

“We’ll get something done if they want to. It’s that simple,” Turner said. “I’m not saying we can’t (before Friday). I’m just saying I’m not optimistic we will. There’s a difference between the two.”

Northside Jonny
03-03-2010, 10:16 PM
It seem obvious to me that they are waiting to see what happens elsewhere. Must be interested in someone younger or in their minds better.

chonba
03-03-2010, 10:28 PM
I believe his agent isnít communicating with him intentionally, creating an atmosphere of confusion that will lead clark to another team hoping they will pay more.

Galax Steeler
03-04-2010, 04:33 AM
It seem obvious to me that they are waiting to see what happens elsewhere. Must be interested in someone younger or in their minds better.

Agreed they have someone in mind. I don't know if it is a free agent or someone in the draft. If they wanted him they would have don signed him. I guess we will see in a few more hours.

pete74
03-04-2010, 05:45 AM
maybe they are hoping his higest bit is 2mil a year then he can come back to them for 3 but thats not going to happen. he is a decent saftey and there not easy to find. i guess its going to be mundy and troy next season. lets hope neither get hurt

stillers4me
03-04-2010, 06:45 AM
Do you think it may have something to do with his medical condition?

RJ1670
03-04-2010, 07:23 AM
I think it has something to do with him not being worth the money he wants.

SteelMember
03-04-2010, 07:53 AM
Let's go Clark. The Clock is ticking. Less than 24hrs. to make this happen. :hope:

steelreserve
03-04-2010, 11:48 AM
I think it has something to do with him not being worth the money his agent wants.

Fixed for accuracy. At least that's what it looks like to me. The agent knows that some shithead team will pay $5 million a year on the open market, which is, like ... an extra quarter-million in his own pocket. He has every incentive in the world to keep a deal from getting done.

Though I also agree it's pretty likely we're OK with letting him walk at this point; otherwise we'd have been a lot more aggressive.

supa_fly_steeler
03-04-2010, 12:16 PM
Do you think it may have something to do with his medical condition?

I doubt it... If he is resigned i doubt he plays at Denver again in his career (assuming he is a steeler and we have good years and denver has bad years)

JEFF4i
03-04-2010, 03:21 PM
I have a feeling this will get resolved, and I really hope it does. I like Clark.

Fire Haley
03-04-2010, 06:49 PM
bye-bye

Steelers' Clark will become unrestricted free agent

Ryan Clark will become an unrestricted free agent on Friday after he and the Steelers failed to come to a contract agreement.


http://www.pittsburghpostgazette.com/pg/10063/1040355-100.stm

mesaSteeler
03-04-2010, 09:10 PM
Steelers' Clark will become unrestricted free agent
Thursday, March 04, 2010
By Ed Bouchette, Pittsburgh Post-Gazette
http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/10063/1040355-66.stm?cmpid=steelers.xml

Ryan Clark will become an unrestricted free agent on Friday after he and the Steelers failed to come to a contract agreement.

Clark, the team's starting free safety the past four years, said consistently that he wanted to remain with the Steelers but the two sides never came close in contract negotiations.

He was one of three players football operations director Kevin Colbert identified as a priority to sign before free agency. They locked up the other two by signing nose tackle Casey Hampton to a three-year contract and making kicker Jeff Reed the franchise player.

Clark was the only other player involved in negotiations with the team before free agency so all of their other perspective free agents will become unrestricted at midnight: Halfback Willie Parker, cornerback Deshea Townsend, quarterback Charlie Batch, linebacker Rocky Boiman, safety Tyrone Carter, defensive ends Nick Eason and Travis Kirschke, wide receiver Joey Galloway and two potential restricted free agents who did not receive tenders from the team, guard Darnell Stapleton and halfback Carey Davis.

Read more: http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/10063/1040355-66.stm?cmpid=steelers.xml#ixzz0hGR0S0Kl

Psyychoward86
03-04-2010, 09:29 PM
omg, i dont get it. The front office says they want him back, Ryan Clark says he wants to be back and says he isnt looking for gobs of money, and he ends up in free agency without even an offer?


-.-'

xbroughneck
03-05-2010, 12:15 AM
Uhm...there may be a safety in this draft that we don't know the Steelers have been looking at for a long time.

Seriously, they can't expect Mundy or Deshea to be the starting safety.

They also have no real depth at safety because Ty Carter probably (and hopefully) won't be back.

Eric Berry will be gone.

Hmmm... just speculation that's all. It seems like the Steelers already know where they are going for free safety.

Rick5895
03-05-2010, 05:23 AM
There is obviously a reason, that has not been disclosed in the media, as to why Ryan is being allowed to test the free agent market. My guess is they want a lot more than the FO is willing to pay. This could be a situation where he will be allowed to test the water but the market for Clark might not be as much as Clark or his agent think.

pete74
03-05-2010, 05:50 AM
he is gone. he will probably be signed soon. the bad news now is that we will probably bring carter back cheaply and we all know carter is not a good saftey

supa_fly_steeler
03-05-2010, 08:13 AM
what would Jesus do were screwed at the moment :S

solardave
03-05-2010, 08:29 AM
If they haven't tried to give him a deal yet then he's obviously not the guy they want going forward


I can't see Mundy stepping in as a starter so it must be either FA or the draft.

GBMelBlount
03-05-2010, 08:36 AM
bye-bye



yep.

FacemeIke
03-05-2010, 08:53 AM
We're definately drafting a safety. They want either Mays or Thomas. They are sort of in a bind. If you draft one of those guys ideally you'd like to sit them a season and then have them start in season 2. But, there is no way Clark will agree to a one year contract, and you dont want to pay him to sit behind the new kid in 2 seasons. So what do you do? I guess you either put Mays or Thomas in as a rookie or you go with Carter. Carter couldn't fill Troy's shoes, but he is a similar player to Clark in that hes a hard hitting, run stopping safety.

xbroughneck
03-05-2010, 10:51 AM
We're definately drafting a safety. They want either Mays or Thomas. They are sort of in a bind. If you draft one of those guys ideally you'd like to sit them a season and then have them start in season 2. But, there is no way Clark will agree to a one year contract, and you dont want to pay him to sit behind the new kid in 2 seasons. So what do you do? I guess you either put Mays or Thomas in as a rookie or you go with Carter. Carter couldn't fill Troy's shoes, but he is a similar player to Clark in that hes a hard hitting, run stopping safety.

That job won't go to Carter. It's going to go to Mundy.

And I think the Steelers are looking at a 4 year starter in college who will have an immediate impact on special teams (MAYS). Now, I could be very wrong, but if I'm not...and the Steelers manage to move up a few slots in the draft to get Mays, I'll be throwing a "steelers picked someone I liked" party at my place. :applaudit:

Gnutella
03-05-2010, 11:04 AM
Just a couple of thoughts...

1. When Troy Polamalu was on the field, it didn't seem to matter whether it was Ryan Clark or Tyrone Carter who was at FS -- the secondary still played well. (Carter made some big plays at FS.) However, when Clark was the only "starting" S on the field, the secondary played poorly. Basically, Clark was exposed without Polamalu.

2. I wonder if Clark is responsible for some of the locker-room drama last November/December? The fact that he specifically asked to talk with Mike Logan on ESPN Radio 1250 makes me wonder, especially when Logan seemed to be stirring the pot furiously after the loss to the Browns.

steelreserve
03-05-2010, 12:03 PM
Just a couple of thoughts...

1. When Troy Polamalu was on the field, it didn't seem to matter whether it was Ryan Clark or Tyrone Carter who was at FS -- the secondary still played well. (Carter made some big plays at FS.) However, when Clark was the only "starting" S on the field, the secondary played poorly. Basically, Clark was exposed without Polamalu.

That's exactly what I was thinking as well. Which is why all this talk of "OMG, we need to draft a safety in the first round" is probably bogus. Just like last year when people were saying the draft needed to go OL, OL, OL for the first three rounds.

Yeah, it's pretty likely we'll take a safety somewhere (or pick up a mid-range free agent, like Clark was when he came over to us), but I don't think we're going to use a high draft pick or spend $5 million on a free agent. Maybe we draft a guy in the third or fourth round who we hope works out. Maybe we even think we've got an adequate replacement on the roster already -- between Mundy, Lewis, Townsend and Burnett, there are a number of guys who could be given a shot. In fact, we probably do think that, because I seriously doubt our plan is to make a rookie the starter.

Even if we brought back (ugh) Carter, I don't think it's the end of the world with him at FS. At SS, yes, he's completely inadequate, but we did do OK when he replaced Clark.

SteelMember
03-05-2010, 12:23 PM
Townsend makes the move to FS? :noidea:

Steelers>NFL
03-05-2010, 12:32 PM
Townsend makes the move to FS? :noidea:
I like Townsend. But I do not think this is a good move.
We need to instill youth blood into the lineup. To many 30 something players.
The D is getting old - fast.

xbroughneck
03-05-2010, 02:47 PM
Even if we brought back (ugh) Carter, I don't think it's the end of the world with him at FS. At SS, yes, he's completely inadequate, but we did do OK when he replaced Clark.

So he did ok when he replaced Ryan Clark...what...2 years ago. That means he's two years older (slower) and it means teams will probably attack him more.

This season the Steelers are going to play Cinci twice (lost to them twice), Baltimore twice (split with them), The Jets, Patriots, Titans, Saints....Raiders (who beat us this year).

We picked up stop gap POSSIBLE fillers last year in Burnett, Mundy and Lewis.

You really think we need to do it again? I don't.

Ty Carter on the field against good QBs with a half way decent tight end is a formula for disaster, and that's IF we were to bring back Ryan Clark (I know, they probably wouldn't play on the field at the same time if Troy is healthy)

This is what the Steelers secondary is looking to bring back next year

Townsend...slower
Carter...slowest
Troy...injury prone because he plays so hard at SS
Ryan Clark....pretty good...but seems to not be on the right page when Troy isn't there. (May be gone anyway)
Ike...can run like the wind, but can't catch or play the ball that well in the air
...and you want them to take a chance on another Keenan Lewis level player?

Yet, you think a safety (MAYS) that everyone agrees will go in the first round won't have as big an impact as a that stop gap filler?

Fortunately I'm not Kevin C. because I'd, go against the grain and move up to get Taylor Mays.

OneForTheToe
03-05-2010, 02:54 PM
Townsend makes the move to FS? :noidea:

I like that idea. You can probably sign Townsend to a one year deal. He is not athletically gifted, but Deshea has always had a habit of being in the right place at the right time. That to me is he perfect fit for what Ryan Clark did here. Bring back Deshea, draft a safety and give it a year.

xbroughneck
03-05-2010, 03:00 PM
I like that idea. You can probably sign Townsend to a one year deal. He is not athletically gifted, but Deshea has always had a habit of being in the right place at the right time. That to me is he perfect fit for what Ryan Clark did here. Bring back Deshea, draft a safety and give it a year.

I agree. And even though my pick would be Mays, I wouldn't cry if the Steelers waited until the second round to draft their safety of the future.


I think Deshea would be at least as good as Ryan at the FS spot.

BUT, I'd much rather have the Steelers move Troy to FS, then draft Mays to have that roving, blitzing, cover the tight end role.

But that's just me. It appears the Steelers don't plan on bringing back Clark, so I'd roll the dice.

supa_fly_steeler
03-05-2010, 03:10 PM
I agree. And even though my pick would be Mays, I wouldn't cry if the Steelers waited until the second round to draft their safety of the future.


I think Deshea would be at least as good as Ryan at the FS spot.

BUT, I'd much rather have the Steelers move Troy to FS, then draft Mays to have that roving, blitzing, cover the tight end role.

But that's just me. It appears the Steelers don't plan on bringing back Clark, so I'd roll the dice.

The Giants are meeting with A Rolle and the Cards might resign Dansby so it could very well be earl thomas or this mays kid could fall to us...

lol from a website

In Taylor Mays, the Steelers would get a player who hits like James Harrison, covers like William Gay, and catches the ball like Ike Taylor. Only one of those three things is goo

tony hipchest
03-05-2010, 03:18 PM
deshea cant replace clark. at best, he can be his back up and play in dime situations. while townsend is always in position, and sticks to his man like glue, he cant dislodge the ball from the receiver, and is always outclassed and outjumped vs any opponent 6'2" or taller.

if he was playing in base package, the offense would immediately note the mismatch and isolate either the TE or 6'"4 slot receiver on him every time and win just about every battle.

a team like the colts, chargers, saints would destroy him in constant coverage against 3wr/1te sets.

SteelMember
03-05-2010, 03:23 PM
I like Townsend. But I do not think this is a good move.
We need to instill youth blood into the lineup. To many 30 something players.
The D is getting old - fast.

Just a thought. The team did mention the possibility last season for depth. It would also extend his career. The guy always seems to scratch his way back on the roster.

It's not like we have a whole lot of depth at FS now (or SS, for that matter), and if there are no intentions of re-signing Clark, they must have some plan in mind.

Carter is much better at backing up the SS position. That leaves Mundy... Burnett... Lewis. None of which have seen enough playing time to give them the starting job.

Even the best possible draft pick is going to need seasoning in this scheme.

El-Gonzo Jackson
03-05-2010, 03:25 PM
Fortunately I'm not Kevin C. because I'd, go against the grain and move up to get Taylor Mays.

Question....did you watch any of the Combine drills, or just see Taylor Mays 40-yard dash??

SteelMember
03-05-2010, 03:42 PM
Question....did you watch any of the Combine drills, or just see Taylor Mays 40-yard dash??

All that speed makes up for his questionable coverage abilities. :uhh:

xbroughneck
03-05-2010, 03:45 PM
Question....did you watch any of the Combine drills, or just see Taylor Mays 40-yard dash??

I live in Los Angeles and I've watched about 12 USC games in that period. I like the kid.

And I also like his speed and power.

I'll admit I didn't see his cone drills.

I'm curious...WHY CAN'T I FIND SHUTTLE TIMES...but I can see 40 times everywhere?

El-Gonzo Jackson
03-05-2010, 03:59 PM
I live in Los Angeles and I've watched about 12 USC games in that period. I like the kid.

And I also like his speed and power.

I'll admit I didn't see his cone drills.

OK, that explains the man love.

His change of direction was terrible at the combine. Mays struggled to do a back and forth W-drill with any fluidity...probably because he is such a big guy. He finished off the drill by coasting, which prompted the NFL Network crew to comment ..."he gave up, he didnt finish".

Its the same kind of issues that probably account for his lack of INT's and lateness to react in coverage. I like the analogy that he is like Steve Atwater.....a big safety, big hitter, but not somebody that is good in coverage of a TE or sideline to sideline.

xbroughneck
03-05-2010, 04:06 PM
OK, that explains the man love.

His change of direction was terrible at the combine. Mays struggled to do a back and forth W-drill with any fluidity...probably because he is such a big guy. He finished off the drill by coasting, which prompted the NFL Network crew to comment ..."he gave up, he didnt finish".

Its the same kind of issues that probably account for his lack of INT's and lateness to react in coverage. I like the analogy that he is like Steve Atwater.....a big safety, big hitter, but not somebody that is good in coverage of a TE or sideline to sideline.

Crap.

I still would like to see him in a Steeler uni though. I still think he'd be an asset....but also, maybe a liability unless they can work on him.

Guess that's why we don't see anything on his shuttle times.


Ha Ha...my boy AJ Jefferson (Fresno State) did well. Guess that says something about the value of the combine because I've watched AJ the past 3 seasons at Fresno State...at least 25 games, and I was sure he WOULDN'T do well at the combine because of what I saw against the likes of Nevada, Boise State, and San Jose State.

Guess we'll see though.

I still hope the Steelers get MAYS.

xbroughneck
03-05-2010, 04:09 PM
O I like the analogy that he is like Steve Atwater.....a big safety, big hitter, but not somebody that is good in coverage of a TE or sideline to sideline.

Sounds like Ryan Clark...:chuckle:

And Steve Atwater is a former 8 time pro bowl player.

You may be right about Mays though. He did drop off in performance this year after USC lost all those linebackers from the year before.

We'll see.

Pentheon
03-05-2010, 04:34 PM
I really hope some way some how we can find a way to keep Ryan Clark here.

Make it happen!!!!!

El-Gonzo Jackson
03-05-2010, 04:34 PM
Sounds like Ryan Clark...:chuckle:

And Steve Atwater is a former 8 time pro bowl player.

You may be right about Mays though. He did drop off in performance this year after USC lost all those linebackers from the year before.

We'll see.

Yeah, but Atwater was a lot bigger and heavier than Clark. Plus, the NFL was a much different game then.

I hope they can sign Clark back, but if not, then I hope Will Allen is looked at, or just about anybody other than Tyron Carter.

Chidi29
03-05-2010, 09:41 PM
For our defense, free safety is one of the less glamour positions that really asks him to drop back in coverage whenever Troy gets the chance to roam (Which is pretty often). It isn't like you need an Ed Reed back there. As long as you have a smart guy who is a sure tackler and has decent coverage skills, you can make it work. Reason being we let Chris Hope go when he wanted to cash in and if I remember correctly, signed Clark fairly cheaply.

Not having Troy last year really exposed Clark, I thought he made a lot of mistakes and was too aggressive, and it showed the team it can find a guy with a similar mold who is potentially younger and for about the same amount of money, if not cheaper. Of course, the only issue is trying to find that free safety. I don't think Mundy is the answer. Maybe it's just because he's young and was like it in college, but he's pretty aggressive and it's burnt him in the preseason. I'd rather have him be Troy's backup if at all possible. Much better suited for strong safety than free safety for us.

supa_fly_steeler
03-05-2010, 09:43 PM
For our defense, free safety is one of the less glamour positions that really asks him to drop back in coverage whenever Troy gets the chance to roam (Which is pretty often). It isn't like you need an Ed Reed back there. As long as you have a smart guy who is a sure tackler and has decent coverage skills, you can make it work. Reason being we let Chris Hope go when he wanted to cash in and if I remember correctly, signed Clark fairly cheaply.

Not having Troy last year really exposed Clark, I thought he made a lot of mistakes and was too aggressive, and it showed the team it can find a guy with a similar mold who is potentially younger and for about the same amount of money, if not cheaper. Of course, the only issue is trying to find that free safety. I don't think Mundy is the answer. Maybe it's just because he's young and was like it in college, but he's pretty aggressive and it's burnt him in the preseason. I'd rather have him be Troy's backup if at all possible. Much better suited for strong safety than free safety for us.

We cant afford another one of those strong saftey type free safeties we need a ballhawking one. It's far overdue.

Chidi29
03-05-2010, 09:46 PM
The issue with two ballhawking safties is that they both are going to have that knack to take that risk and make that big play. sure, it'll work out some of the time, but the biggest key to LeBeau's defense is to not allow the big play. With as good as Troy is and the playmaking ability he is that is virtually unmatched by any other player, that's all we need.

supa_fly_steeler
03-05-2010, 09:49 PM
The issue with two ballhawking safties is that they both are going to have that knack to take that risk and make that big play. sure, it'll work out some of the time, but the biggest key to LeBeau's defense is to not allow the big play. With as good as Troy is and the playmaking ability he is that is virtually unmatched by any other player, that's all we need.

Teams will take Polamalu out of the game. He covers only half of the field. The League is changing and changing. Its a completley pass happy league now. We need takeaways. Its usually unherd of when a SS gets 5+ interceptions each years, That's just Troy but we need the ballhawker at either Corner or Safety. Because now with the Ravens pass attack we are going to have a harder time clinching the divisional title each game.

Let's GO STEELERS!

HOKIE NATION

Chidi29
03-05-2010, 10:05 PM
Again, the lack of two ballhawks at the same time has never been an issue when Troy has been healthy. Given Lebeau's scheme, it's wiser to focus on other areas than a luxury guy like another ballhawk.

supa_fly_steeler
03-05-2010, 11:58 PM
Again, the lack of two ballhawks at the same time has never been an issue when Troy has been healthy. Given Lebeau's scheme, it's wiser to focus on other areas than a luxury guy like another ballhawk.

You don't get it do you.........

........ We are not going to have the 2008 Defensive Form Year in Year Out. That year was just incredible. I bet next year if Troy was healthy and we didnt have many ballhawks we would still be in a pile of shit. Times have changed were not going to only allow a team to pass on us for 150 yards per game

It's not wiser not focus because that is our weakest point specifically at getting takeaways.

RoethlisBURGHer
03-06-2010, 12:13 AM
The biggest reason for our defensive dominance in 2008 was our pass rush.

Woodley and Harrison were both total beasts. If they didn't get to the QB, he threw it early. Polamalu roamed and did his thing, which helped. But the pass rush was the real reason. Offensive tackles were scared. Quarterbacks were terrified.

Last year, we didn't have as good of a pass rush. Part of that was that we were dropping Woodley and Harrison into coverage more often to help cover without Polamalu. The other part was the holding was legal all year as long as you were holding Harrison. Even Woodley was blatantly held a lot and it wasn't called.

Psyychoward86
03-06-2010, 12:16 AM
The biggest reason for our defensive dominance in 2008 was our pass rush.

Woodley and Harrison were both total beasts. If they didn't get to the QB, he threw it early. Polamalu roamed and did his thing, which helped. But the pass rush was the real reason. Offensive tackles were scared. Quarterbacks were terrified.

Last year, we didn't have as good of a pass rush. Part of that was that we were dropping Woodley and Harrison into coverage more often to help cover without Polamalu. The other part was the holding was legal all year as long as you were holding Harrison. Even Woodley was blatantly held a lot and it wasn't called.

kind of sort of. We were 2nd in the league in sacks, but yeah it was a really inconsistent pass rush. Sometimes we'd be buzzing around everywhere, and other times we'll be giving mediocre QB's a beautiful pocket. That holding crap has zero relevance to any problems on this team. good pass rushers just get held a lot

RoethlisBURGHer
03-06-2010, 12:24 AM
kind of sort of. We were 2nd in the league in sacks, but yeah it was a really inconsistent pass rush. Sometimes we'd be buzzing around everywhere, and other times we'll be giving mediocre QB's a beautiful pocket. That holding crap has zero relevance to any problems on this team. good pass rushers just get held a lot

But our problem is the holding wasn't getting called. I know you can call holding on every play, but often it was obvious (and would have been to a blind person). That was a big negative because it became the way to defend our two best pass rushers.

If it would have been called more often, our defense would have held most of those fourth quarter leads and we would have been in the playoffs.

JHSilverback
03-06-2010, 12:38 AM
Again, the lack of two ballhawks at the same time has never been an issue when Troy has been healthy. Given Lebeau's scheme, it's wiser to focus on other areas than a luxury guy like another ballhawk.

I would figure having another ballhawk would allow lebeau to create some more schemes and also making qbs to take that extra second to look down field allowing our linebackers to get to them imo

supa_fly_steeler
03-06-2010, 12:42 AM
I remember when Woodley crunched Rivers.

Priceless

pete74
03-06-2010, 07:50 AM
now that Rolle signed that big contract with the giants clark is definatly out of our range because he is going to want a similar contract

Chidi29
03-06-2010, 03:06 PM
I would figure having another ballhawk would allow lebeau to create some more schemes and also making qbs to take that extra second to look down field allowing our linebackers to get to them imo

Just like having a shutdown corner, another ballhawk is just a luxury, not a need. Especially when the guy you'd get is likely to be young and going to make his fair share of mistakes that'll turn into costly big plays just as it did last year.