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View Full Version : If the 1st 17 picks go like Kirwan predicts, who would you take?


vrabinec
03-03-2010, 10:52 AM
I think his list is solid.

http://www.nfl.com/draft/story?id=09000d5d816b3cfa&template=with-video-with-comments&confirm=true

El-Gonzo Jackson
03-03-2010, 11:06 AM
If it turns out that way, I am torn between

1. Sean Weatherspoon
2. Kyle Wilson
3. Bruce Campbell

I think any one of those 3 guys would be a nice fit. I think that I lean to Spoon and we can either look at the other 2 positions in the 2nd round with either Jared Veldheer, Devin McCourty or Chris Cook.

vrabinec
03-03-2010, 11:16 AM
If it turns out that way, I am torn between

1. Sean Weatherspoon
2. Kyle Wilson
3. Bruce Campbell

I think any one of those 3 guys would be a nice fit. I think that I lean to Spoon and we can either look at the other 2 positions in the 2nd round with either Jared Veldheer, Devin McCourty or Chris Cook.

Campbell scares me. I live in Maryland and I saw most of their games, he looks like a "looks like Tarzan plays like Jane" type to me. I wouldn't mind either Wilson or Robinson. Robinson looked really smooth at the combine. He and Ike would be a nice pair of corners.

Northside Jonny
03-03-2010, 11:20 AM
I hate the Robinson pick not sure if he is 1st round worthy. I would have 2 say
1.spoon
2.wilson
3.trade down and take pouncey

El-Gonzo Jackson
03-03-2010, 11:23 AM
Campbell scares me. I live in Maryland and I saw most of their games, he looks like a "looks like Tarzan plays like Jane" type to me. I wouldn't mind either Wilson or Robinson. Robinson looked really smooth at the combine. He and Ike would be a nice pair of corners.

Yeah, I dont know about Campbell, he looks like a natural pass protector from what I saw, but seems to lunge forward in run blocking. What you want is an OT with a big ass to bend his knees and power forward in the run game and while I didnt see that, I dont want to write off that he cant do it.

Campbell I see as a guy that would have been the top LT prospect next year along with Nate Potter of Boise State. That is the only reason I think getting a project a year early could work out.

I like Wilson over Robinson, its just me. I know Wilson is shorter, but I love the comparison made by Ross Tucker that Wilson looks like a Cortland Finnegan type player.

Weatherspoon has apparently turned off some teams with his overactive mouth and personality. At least Hood should be able to offer insight into that side of his character.

El-Gonzo Jackson
03-03-2010, 11:27 AM
Ya know, I still dont get the fascination with an interior lineman?? I think we have Kemo and Hartwig with 3 years left on their deals, then Legursky, Foster, Urbik behind them. John Jerry and Matt Tennant can be had in the next couple rounds....so the Iupati or Pouncey suggestions still baffle me. I think we have no OT depth.

Maybe I will be the one scratching my head come draft day, but I would love to see Jared Veldheer and Matt Tennant drafted, but that aint gonna happen.

Northside Jonny
03-03-2010, 11:29 AM
Ya know, I still dont get the fascination with an interior lineman?? I think we have Kemo and Hartwig with 3 years left on their deals, then Legursky, Foster, Urbik behind them. John Jerry and Matt Tennant can be had in the next couple rounds....so the Iupati or Pouncey suggestions still baffle me. I think we have no OT depth.

Maybe I will be the one scratching my head come draft day, but I would love to see Jared Veldheer and Matt Tennant drafted, but that aint gonna happen.

Maybee if we can't get Spoon or Wilson we should trade out of the 1st all together?
I'm not opposed.

vrabinec
03-03-2010, 11:44 AM
Maybee if we can't get Spoon or Wilson we should trade out of the 1st all together?
I'm not opposed.

We've already got 10 picks this draft. If anything, I'd try to move the other way. I wonder if in the scenario they show there, trading away our 3rd round pick would move us up far enough to get Berry at #10.

lamberts-lost-tooth
03-03-2010, 11:49 AM
With that scenerio....I would be VERY tempted to trade down. Between picks #23-27 there are four teams that "may" be looking for an OT and might place enough value on Campbell that they might be willing to leapfrog past each other in an attempt to get a future starter at OT.
23. Green Bay Packers
24. Philadelphia Eagles
26. Arizona Cardinals
27. Dallas Cowboys

If we traded down to the bottom of the 1st, I would look seriously at CB Devin McCourtey in the first...then with the additional 4th rounder...might ...have a draft something like this.
2) Torell Troupe NT
3) Jerad Veldheer OT
4) Darrell Stuckey FS/SS
4) Mike Neal DE
5) Micah Johnson ILB
5) Arthur Moats OLB
6) Eric Olsen OC
7) Deji Karim RB
7) Michael Hoomanawanui TE

Granted some of these players may rise (Stucky especially)...but this is just about where they are ranked right now per nfldraftscout.com

Northside Jonny
03-03-2010, 11:51 AM
Why no CB Gonzo?

vrabinec
03-03-2010, 12:05 PM
With that scenerio....I would be VERY tempted to trade down. Between picks #23-27 there are four teams that "may" be looking for an OT and might place enough value on Campbell that they might be willing to leapfrog past each other in an attempt to get a future starter at OT.
23. Green Bay Packers
24. Philadelphia Eagles
26. Arizona Cardinals
27. Dallas Cowboys

If we traded down to the bottom of the 1st, I would look seriously at CB Devin McCourtey in the first...then with the additional 4th rounder...might ...have a draft something like this.
2) Torell Troupe NT
3) Jerad Veldheer OT
4) Darrell Stuckey FS/SS
4) Mike Neal DE
5) Micah Johnson ILB
5) Arthur Moats OLB
6) Eric Olsen OC
7) Deji Karim RB
7) Michael Hoomanawanui TE

Granted some of these players may rise (Stucky especially)...but this is just about where they are ranked right now per nfldraftscout.com

I don't think Johnson and Stuckey will fall that far, but that would be a nice draft IMO. Didn't see a couple of those guys play this year, but the ones I didn't like Veldheer, looked pretty good at the combine

supa_fly_steeler
03-03-2010, 12:19 PM
Patrick Robinsons a great Corner for our organisation... He physical.

tom shaw on robinson -

"He can set records in the shuttle. He's unbelievable, and he's a good defensive back. He played man-to-man the whole time and, in college, that doesn't happen. I see him being a special player in the NFL. Not because he just as talent, he has work ethic.

Northside Jonny
03-03-2010, 12:23 PM
Well I guess there is a difference in opinion. Oh Well

SteelMember
03-03-2010, 12:58 PM
With that scenerio....I would be VERY tempted to trade down. Between picks #23-27 there are four teams that "may" be looking for an OT and might place enough value on Campbell that they might be willing to leapfrog past each other in an attempt to get a future starter at OT.
23. Green Bay Packers
24. Philadelphia Eagles
26. Arizona Cardinals
27. Dallas Cowboys

It does look tempting.

I proposed in another thread, that trading back with the Eagles (which falls right into your window) could possibly bring their 24th and 87th. So, we could possibly get a late 3rd according to the value chart. That could be great if they wanted Campbell at 18, but even this mock has them passing for Weatherspoon. So that wouldn't help our cause if they are after him.

I could really see us going Spoon here, but imo, he may be better served with his build and athleticism to be the OLB in a 4-3. I'd almost prefer the bigger Spikes possibly in the 2nd, or even Johnson or Angerer later on.

My feeling with no trade scenario would be Kyle Wilson. I think he may have the most value at 18. I definitely like him more than Robinson. I hate to sound like I'm regurgitating analysts, but he has been very inconsistent and has plenty of "bad tape".

Campbell, to me is a crap shoot right now. I haven't seen enough of him to really know for sure (I'll leave that to MOP), but he is definitely a monster. The "potential" is there. I just don't know if I'd be willing to risk an 18 to find out.

Northside Jonny
03-03-2010, 01:14 PM
I just don't think Spikes is as good an athlete as Spoon

SteelMember
03-03-2010, 01:18 PM
I just don't think Spikes is as good an athlete as Spoon

I don't think he has to be to play the middle. He's going to be filling gaps and scraping down the line most of the time. That's where I'd take the guy with a little more lead in his ass. :noidea:

Besides, the question was the value at 18. I realize he's climbing, but I'm not sold on him being a #18 value... more of a reach.

Don't get me wrong. He's a very good player. I'm strictly looking at what we'd be getting for the money with the pick.

Northside Jonny
03-03-2010, 01:23 PM
yeah but the steeler LB's are asked to do a lot more than that.

SteelMember
03-03-2010, 01:33 PM
That's why I said "most of the time". There are/have been plenty of good LB's in the league that aren't as good dropping in coverage.

Football, and more importantly, our division is still run first. Run the ball. Stop the run. Probably averaging 60% of the time. I just prefer a guy who isn't afraid to stick his nose in there with the fat bodies, as opposed to rushing around the edge.

#18 OLB... ok
#18 ILB... not so much. Unless you Rolondo McClain.

Northside Jonny
03-03-2010, 01:43 PM
That's why I said "most of the time". There are/have been plenty of good LB's in the league that aren't as good dropping in coverage.

Football, and more importantly, our division is still run first. Run the ball. Stop the run. Probably averaging 60% of the time. I just prefer a guy who isn't afraid to stick his nose in there with the fat bodies, as opposed to rushing around the edge.

#18 OLB... ok
#18 ILB... not so much. Unless you Rolondo McClain.

I haven't seen any film that suggest Spoon is afraid to get dirty in the middle. When asked at the combine he said he wants to be in the middle of it all.

SteelMember
03-03-2010, 02:03 PM
I haven't seen any film that suggest Spoon is afraid to get dirty in the middle. When asked at the combine he said he wants to be in the middle of it all.

That's because the majority of his "film" is at Olb. He can "want" for a lot of things.

Don't get tunnel vision. People are not always going to agree with you. There is a thing called difference of opinion, and I have already stated that I think he is a good player, but I just don't think he may be worth an 18 pick. He just barely squeeked into the 1st round a few weeks back, and now all the sudden, because of the combine, he's a top 20 pick. That's just too much weight on combine numbers for me.

vrabinec
03-03-2010, 02:17 PM
yeah but the steeler LB's are asked to do a lot more than that.

Yeah, Spikes would be a liability in coverage if we blitzed Timmons, he wouldn't be too much of a threat to blitz himself, and I don't know that he's quick enough to hover around the line, disguising what he's gonna do then get back into the types of zones we run. He's more of a straight ahead run stuffer. I'd much rather take Weatherspoon or McClain (if he fell to us) for the buck, and if we don't get one of those guys, then IMO Micah Johnson would do everything Spikes would, but he'd have more attitude, and he might even be more versatile once he spent an off-season in the weight room.

lamberts-lost-tooth
03-03-2010, 02:17 PM
I haven't seen any film that suggest Spoon is afraid to get dirty in the middle. When asked at the combine he said he wants to be in the middle of it all.

It may all be a mute point.

I believe that we may see a situation where Weatherspoon climbs the charts...and if the Broncos end up drafting McClain...well then, Weatherspoon might be wearing a Dolphin or Giants uniform next year.


On the other hand...wait for Micah Johnson and you get a player that fits our scheme perfectly.

02/12/2010 - PRO POTENTIAL: Johnson will be the first Kentucky player selected in April's NFL draft with Lindley and Peters following later in the draft. MLB Micah Johnson - The fact that he's seen as a solid all-around linebacker (plays both the run and pass well) makes him a coveted inside 'backer at the NFL level. He's still recovering from a knee injury in the Music City Bowl so teams will have to be cautious in terms of how they grade upcoming workouts.
http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/players/1116921

SteelMember
03-03-2010, 02:29 PM
On the other hand...wait for Micah Johnson and you get a player that fits our scheme perfectly.

And that was my original point. I guess since I threw Spikes name in there, the lasers became trained and locked. :noidea:

There is plenty of Defensive depth in this draft.

lamberts-lost-tooth
03-03-2010, 02:52 PM
And that was my original point. I guess since I threw Spikes name in there, the lasers became trained and locked. :noidea:

There is plenty of Defensive depth in this draft.

Exactly...We need to determine not only what our needs are but where each positional value drops off

Aussie_steeler
03-03-2010, 02:56 PM
Yeah, I dont know about Campbell, he looks like a natural pass protector from what I saw, but seems to lunge forward in run blocking. What you want is an OT with a big ass to bend his knees and power forward in the run game and while I didnt see that, I dont want to write off that he cant do it.

Campbell I see as a guy that would have been the top LT prospect next year along with Nate Potter of Boise State. That is the only reason I think getting a project a year early could work out.
.

Lets extrapolate this idea out a little further then Gonz.

If he is the #1 or #2 OT next year then he is almost certain to be a top 10 pick. He also gets another year with the Maryand coaching staff and develops at their pace.

If he were to be picked at #18 this year by the steelers, he gets a full year in the steeler system learning under NFL conditions. Coach Kugler gets his first project to work with and groom. The steelers get a top 10 pick at top 20 money and complete control over his development.

With Starks here long term and Colon future contract status uncertain ( tenders and then possibly franchise tags) it looks like a very good scenario to develop an OT.

I am not saying it needs to be a done deal, but it is a scenario that fits the model that Bruce Campbell is a talent who needs to be considered a work in project.

NB: I to also liked the reference of Kyle Wilson to Courtland Finnegan. THe more I read and see of Kyle Wilson the more I think he will be a very good pro CB.

jollyrob68
03-03-2010, 02:57 PM
Ya know, I still dont get the fascination with an interior lineman?? I think we have Kemo and Hartwig with 3 years left on their deals, then Legursky, Foster, Urbik behind them. John Jerry and Matt Tennant can be had in the next couple rounds....so the Iupati or Pouncey suggestions still baffle me. I think we have no OT depth.

Maybe I will be the one scratching my head come draft day, but I would love to see Jared Veldheer and Matt Tennant drafted, but that aint gonna happen.
POuncey is the best center and can play guard for 1 yr. Hartwig doesnt have 3 yrs left he's the worst of the lineman. The reason for Iupati is we need beef that can get us a first down on 3rd and1.
I like John Jerry he will be gone before we pick in the 2nd or 3rd and I love Jared Veldheer but think New England is going to take him in the 2nd.

I hope we get an additional round 1 for Willie Colon and take Iupati & Weatherspoon or Kareem JAckson & Maurkice Pouncey. Then we can hope Jared Veheer is there in the second or Kyle Calloway, Rodger Saffold, Tony Washington.

jollyrob68
03-03-2010, 03:04 PM
NO to Bruce Campbell unless he fell to the second. As for CB I like Kareem Jackson or Devon McCourty. I hope we get an additional rd 1 for Willie Colon and can grab an OL & CB or OL/DL & Sean Weatherspoon.
Picking up MIcah Johnson in the 4th would be smart. I also like AJ EDDS. We Need depth at our LB's we're thin.
With the Steelers giving William Gay such a low tender I Now think we will take 2 CB or 2 Safeties.

El-Gonzo Jackson
03-03-2010, 04:33 PM
Why no CB Gonzo?

Never said that. I like Kyle Wilson, McCourty, Cox, Cook at CB.....but honestly with Lewis and Burnett, I dont know if the Steelers will draft a CB early.

El-Gonzo Jackson
03-03-2010, 04:39 PM
POuncey is the best center and can play guard for 1 yr. Hartwig doesnt have 3 yrs left he's the worst of the lineman. The reason for Iupati is we need beef that can get us a first down on 3rd and1.
I like John Jerry he will be gone before we pick in the 2nd or 3rd and I love Jared Veldheer but think New England is going to take him in the 2nd.

I hope we get an additional round 1 for Willie Colon and take Iupati & Weatherspoon or Kareem JAckson & Maurkice Pouncey. Then we can hope Jared Veheer is there in the second or Kyle Calloway, Rodger Saffold, Tony Washington.

Nobody is gonna sign Colon away from us and give up a 1st round pick.

Center is the least valued position in the draft. Like Brian Billick said, you dont draft one in the 1st round unless you really need one. The Steelers have Hartwig and Legursky already, while Kemo, Urbik and Foster are young guys under contract too.

Are you in the New England war room that you know Veldheer is going there?? They got Sebastian Vollmer last year, so why take another OT in the 2nd, when you can take Ciron Black or Mike Tepper in the 4th to play RT.

Northside Jonny
03-03-2010, 04:40 PM
That's because the majority of his "film" is at Olb. He can "want" for a lot of things.

Don't get tunnel vision. People are not always going to agree with you. There is a thing called difference of opinion, and I have already stated that I think he is a good player, but I just don't think he may be worth an 18 pick. He just barely squeeked into the 1st round a few weeks back, and now all the sudden, because of the combine, he's a top 20 pick. That's just too much weight on combine numbers for me.

I understand not everyone will agree with me I have respected your opinion and not taken any unneeded shots below the belt . I recall stating in another post that regardless who the steelers pick it looks like they are in position to land one hell of a player. I just hope whomever turns out good and quickly.

El-Gonzo Jackson
03-03-2010, 04:43 PM
Lets extrapolate this idea out a little further then Gonz.

If he is the #1 or #2 OT next year then he is almost certain to be a top 10 pick. He also gets another year with the Maryand coaching staff and develops at their pace.

If he were to be picked at #18 this year by the steelers, he gets a full year in the steeler system learning under NFL conditions. Coach Kugler gets his first project to work with and groom. The steelers get a top 10 pick at top 20 money and complete control over his development.

With Starks here long term and Colon future contract status uncertain ( tenders and then possibly franchise tags) it looks like a very good scenario to develop an OT.

I am not saying it needs to be a done deal, but it is a scenario that fits the model that Bruce Campbell is a talent who needs to be considered a work in project.

NB: I to also liked the reference of Kyle Wilson to Courtland Finnegan. THe more I read and see of Kyle Wilson the more I think he will be a very good pro CB.

That is the only reason I could see Campbell making it. I personally thought William Beatty was that guy last year that could have been drafted and given a year to bulk up. We could have tagged Starks and let him go this season.

Many thought Russell Okung would go top of the 2nd round last year, so he stayed in. Campbell could have been that guy this year if he stayed. There are so many ways to go, but the Steelers can get a good player at #18.

Busforever
03-04-2010, 06:15 AM
In this scenario I like 2 players:
- Iupati: we need a powerful guard if the team wants to run more. Fpr now, we've got some above average guards, some versatile players, but not a dominant guy. If we can find one, then we will have a very good line, with a lot of depth. But we need a first caliber. Plus I think Iupati is the kind of guy Rooney want: he could start immediatly, and he will be a force for our running game. Owner's choice!

- Weatherspoon: we need someone who can replace James Farrior when he will be out. With Weatherspoon, we've got this guy. I don't think he would start right away (defensive schemes to learn, plus i think Farrior didn't say his last word), maybe in year 2. Rooney would not be very happy about this, after saying he wants the rookies involved earlier. But what a great way to assure the transition in our defense, and our tradition of great linebackers.

PhantomJB93
03-04-2010, 12:46 PM
I wouldn't mind Kyle Wilson first...Id take him over Robinson at least...