PDA

View Full Version : Gay marriage made legal in DC


SteelCityMom
03-03-2010, 10:15 AM
I know a lot of folks are opposed to it, but I think this is something that shouldn't even be an issue. To me it's just about all citizens of this country getting equal protections under the same laws. I'm glad these folks will now be given that.

http://www.allheadlinenews.com/articles/7017986890
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/03/03/AR2010030300654.html

zulater
03-03-2010, 11:00 AM
I know a lot of folks are opposed to it, but I think this is something that shouldn't even be an issue. To me it's just about all citizens of this country getting equal protections under the same laws. I'm glad these folks will now be given that.

http://www.allheadlinenews.com/articles/7017986890
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/03/03/AR2010030300654.html

I'd have nothing against gay marriage, except that I know that once a majority of states allow it the next step in the process for gay advocy groups will be to go after any and all churces that refuse to marry same sex couples. So basically the Catholic church and other churces that fail to perform same sex ceremonies will have to choose between either refusing to marry anyone, marry gays ( which the Vatican wont allow) or lose their tax exempt status.

Otherwise, hell yeah, why should straight people be the only ones that have to support divorce lawyers.

SteelCityMom
03-03-2010, 11:54 AM
I'd have nothing against gay marriage, except that I know that once a majority of states allow it the next step in the process for gay advocy groups will be to go after any and all churces that refuse to marry same sex couples. So basically the Catholic church and other churces that fail to perform same sex ceremonies will have to choose between either refusing to marry anyone, marry gays ( which the Vatican wont allow) or lose their tax exempt status.

Otherwise, hell yeah, why should straight people be the only ones that have to support divorce lawyers.


Under the law, clergy are not required to perform gay marriages, and churches and other faith-based organizations have the right to refuse to offer their facilities and services for solemnizing such marriages.

-From the first link I posted.

Churches also have the right to refuse to marry me as well, since I do not adhere to any denomination or faith. Nobody's going to lose their tax exempt status and the government simply cannot and will not get involved in that matter since it pertains to religious aspects. This is for legal and financial status only in marital issues. They already have options anyway. There are plenty of gay friendly (and sometimes oriented churches), non-denominational weddings and courthouse weddings.

supa_fly_steeler
03-03-2010, 11:58 AM
If people are gay then i don't really care if they get married gay it has nothing to do with me.

Don't know why its such a big deal these days

BIGBENFASTWILLIE
03-03-2010, 12:16 PM
I dont think as many people care about gay marriage as politics lead you to believe. Who cares what other people do. I understand the religion part of a "marriage" but really who cares about gay marriage. I think it should be legal everywhere.

ricardisimo
03-03-2010, 04:47 PM
Where it gets interesting is the situation here in California, post-Prop 8. Not only did the proposition take away a right that gays and lesbians were beginning to enjoy - which seems a little different somehow from never having enjoyed the same - but it left open the question of what was to be done with the thousands of couples who were married before the proposition passed. Are those marriages now annulled? Fictitious? Grandfathered? It would be truly bizarre if other states recognized California's gay marriages, but not California.

Furthermore, there is the sort of irony of having such an antidemocratic measure supported democratically, by popular vote. It's not really an irony, since the flip side of majority rule is minority rights, which are being completely trashed here by this. Still, I'm eager to see what happens, and have been writing letters aplenty to anyone who will publish them.

Thanks for the post, SCM.

TheWarDen86
03-03-2010, 05:16 PM
Wait, if it wasn't already legal in DC then how did Bill Clinton get away with being married to that dude who is now our Secretary of State?

:chuckle:

AllD
03-03-2010, 05:28 PM
Tom Brady can now get a divorce and marry somebody that will make him happy.

Godfather
03-03-2010, 06:54 PM
I'd have nothing against gay marriage, except that I know that once a majority of states allow it the next step in the process for gay advocy groups will be to go after any and all churces that refuse to marry same sex couples. So basically the Catholic church and other churces that fail to perform same sex ceremonies will have to choose between either refusing to marry anyone, marry gays ( which the Vatican wont allow) or lose their tax exempt status.

Otherwise, hell yeah, why should straight people be the only ones that have to support divorce lawyers.

Can't see how that would happen. The Catholic Church already refuses to perform marriages for non-Catholics, for Catholics who are divorced and didn't get an annulment, first cousins (who can legally marry in some states), and even for Catholics who haven't gone through the Church's procedural hoops. None of that has been a problem.

Bng_Hevn
03-03-2010, 07:38 PM
I think the biggest issue is that men with AIDs will be able to use their "spouse's" medical insurance, thus raising the rates.

Not that the medical insurance industry isn't already going to hell in a handbasket.

Godfather
03-03-2010, 07:48 PM
I think the biggest issue is that men with AIDs will be able to use their "spouse's" medical insurance, thus raising the rates.

Not that the medical insurance industry isn't already going to hell in a handbasket.

They can already enter into a sham marriage with a woman if they want to pull that.

zulater
03-03-2010, 09:01 PM
-From the first link I posted.

Churches also have the right to refuse to marry me as well, since I do not adhere to any denomination or faith. Nobody's going to lose their tax exempt status and the government simply cannot and will not get involved in that matter since it pertains to religious aspects. This is for legal and financial status only in marital issues. They already have options anyway. There are plenty of gay friendly (and sometimes oriented churches), non-denominational weddings and courthouse weddings.

Sure that how it starts. But once you open the door a crack it's only a matter of time before it flies wide open. Once a fairly large majority of states have legalized gay marriage you can bet your last dollar that gay Catholic couple's will be rushing en masse to the altar demanding to be married by the church or else. ACLU anyone?

It's probably inevetiable, and no I'm not Catholic, but I'm in no hurry to see the church tore down all the same, so I wont be supporting gay marriage legislation anytime soon.

As a footnote, similiar but different. Anyone remember how seatbelt legislation got started? First it was only a secondary offense, you couldn't be cited unless you were pulled over for another infraction. Then it was a non points violation and only applied to front seat passengers. Now it's anyone, anytime, and you get points. Anyone familiar with the attitude of the 80's knows damn well that seat belt legislation would have never passed under the current draconion guidelines, but look where we are today.

:coffee:

SteelCityMom
03-03-2010, 11:08 PM
Sure that how it starts. But once you open the door a crack it's only a matter of time before it flies wide open. Once a fairly large majority of states have legalized gay marriage you can bet your last dollar that gay Catholic couple's will be rushing en masse to the altar demanding to be married by the church or else. ACLU anyone?

It's probably inevetiable, and no I'm not Catholic, but I'm in no hurry to see the church tore down all the same, so I wont be supporting gay marriage legislation anytime soon.

As a footnote, similiar but different. Anyone remember how seatbelt legislation got started? First it was only a secondary offense, you couldn't be cited unless you were pulled over for another infraction. Then it was a non points violation and only applied to front seat passengers. Now it's anyone, anytime, and you get points. Anyone familiar with the attitude of the 80's knows damn well that seat belt legislation would have never passed under the current draconion guidelines, but look where we are today.

:coffee:

Well as Godfather and myself have already pointed out, that just won't fly because of the simple fact that straight couples can be refused marriage by the Catholic church for not meeting its standards. I understand why you think it would become a domino effect, and I'm sure there will be a few who will try, but it's not feasibly possible to have the policy twisted into that. I highly doubt even the ACLU would touch this one for the reasons already mentioned. If it's made legal in the majority of states, gay couples will have the same options as straight couples do.

I'm also not Catholic, and actually hold more animosity towards the Church than I should, but I still do not want to see it torn down...and it wouldn't be. If you want to talk domino effect, imagine if your scenario came true and the Catholic Church would be forced to marry gay couples. That means that all the sudden I could turn around and demand that they marry me as well, or a Satanist couple could do the same (not that I or they would ever want to lol). Simply put, our constitution is set up so that it cannot force a church to do anything and vice versa. Otherwise The Church of Satan would be out of business by now lol.

Galax Steeler
03-04-2010, 04:06 AM
I am totally against it in any state it is just plain wrong and sick.

ricardisimo
03-04-2010, 12:57 PM
Sure that how it starts. But once you open the door a crack it's only a matter of time before it flies wide open. Once a fairly large majority of states have legalized gay marriage you can bet your last dollar that gay Catholic couple's will be rushing en masse to the altar demanding to be married by the church or else. ACLU anyone?

It's probably inevetiable, and no I'm not Catholic, but I'm in no hurry to see the church tore down all the same, so I wont be supporting gay marriage legislation anytime soon.

As a footnote, similiar but different. Anyone remember how seatbelt legislation got started? First it was only a secondary offense, you couldn't be cited unless you were pulled over for another infraction. Then it was a non points violation and only applied to front seat passengers. Now it's anyone, anytime, and you get points. Anyone familiar with the attitude of the 80's knows damn well that seat belt legislation would have never passed under the current draconion guidelines, but look where we are today.

:coffee:

Other than Rush saying it's so, do you have any reason to believe this? Can you point to any precedent in the past fifty years where any lawsuits or government action has altered church dogma or practice? The only case I can think of that remotely applies is polygamy in the Mormon Church, which was halted by state action.

Interestingly, the Mormon Church has historically been racist in the extreme, and no lawsuits or regulation of any sort changed that, but rather public opinion, mostly within the rank-and-file themselves. I suspect that Roman Catholic and other Church practices will likewise eventually change with regards to same-sex marriage.

How exactly do you think the ACLU operates?

ricardisimo
03-04-2010, 12:57 PM
I am totally against it in any state it is just plain wrong and sick.

Then I would strongly discourage you from marrying within your sex.

supa_fly_steeler
03-04-2010, 01:07 PM
I am totally against it in any state it is just plain wrong and sick.

Dont come to England then.... lol

zulater
03-04-2010, 01:27 PM
Other than Rush saying it's so, do you have any reason to believe this?

I don't listen to Rush, Hannity , O'Reilly , Glen Beck or any other conservative talking head. Sorry to dissapoint your preconception of me ric.
:coffee:

My opinion is based on a logical presumption of a progression of time. Advocacy groups always start out by reaching for the lower branches first before going for the higher ones. It's what I would do if I were in their shoes.


Can you point to any precedent in the past fifty years where any lawsuits or government action has altered church dogma or practice?

Not off the top of my head, but that doesn't mean there hasn't been or wont be.

The only case I can think of that remotely applies is polygamy in the Mormon Church, which was halted by state action.

Interestingly, the Mormon Church has historically been racist in the extreme, and no lawsuits or regulation of any sort changed that, but rather public opinion, mostly within the rank-and-file themselves. I suspect that Roman Catholic and other Church practices will likewise eventually change with regards to same-sex marriage.

How exactly do you think the ACLU operates?

God only knows, and I don't want to. But I certainly wouldn't put it past them to take up the cause against the church for gay members of a congregration who want to be married by that church. Nor would I blame them. I do think gay people have the right to fight for change within their church. I just don't want outside forces to force the change upon them.

If you think I'm conflicted on the issue, you're right. Because eventually I think it probably is the right thing for the church to recognize and even perform ceremonies for their gay parishioneers. I just don't want the Government being the ones forcing it on them. :noidea:

steelerdude15
03-04-2010, 01:56 PM
I see nothing wrong with gay marriage, I'm pro-marriage. Doesn't mean I'm gay or anything like that. I think it's good because this is more equal rights for everyone. People can argue all they want about gays cheating the system, but there are men and women who get married who cheat it. I think this is good for gay rights... but we have more important things to worry about though.

SteelersinCA
03-04-2010, 02:55 PM
The government cannot and will not ever tell the Catholic church who it can and cannot marry.

SteelCityMom
03-04-2010, 04:40 PM
The government cannot and will not ever tell the Catholic church who it can and cannot marry.

Precisely. And it's not just because the government is not constitutionally allowed to, it's because the Catholic Church (as well as many other churches) is not an American institution. There are American branches, but all decisions on Catholic affairs come from the Pope in Vatican City. Until that man says that the Catholic Church can marry gays, then no one in America (not even the ACLU or any other civil liberties groups) can challenge that in an American court. It wouldn't even be given a second of consideration by the Supreme Court or any other court in the US.

There are a number of countries that are predominantly Catholic (or at least Christian based) that have same sex marriage laws, and I've never read of any church, Catholic or otherwise, being forced to marry anyone.

urgle burgle
03-04-2010, 05:39 PM
if someone made a chair of balsa wood, would anyone sit in it?

ricardisimo
03-04-2010, 06:50 PM
if someone made a chair of balsa wood, would anyone sit in it?

In the movies (http://www.actionprops.com/catalog/item/2273725/1711951.htm), sure... all the time.

Galax Steeler
03-04-2010, 07:45 PM
Then I would strongly discourage you from marrying within your sex.

I don't think you will have to worry about that I am happily married to a beautiful wife and have a beautiful boy. There is no danger in me marrying within my sex.

Galax Steeler
03-04-2010, 07:48 PM
Dont come to England then.... lol

I don't have a problem coming to England I just stated my belief and the way I was brought up. I was raised man and woman getting married and I don't agree with it any other way and if I step on peoples toes then I am sorry. I will not change my belief that it is ok for two woman or two men to get married.

urgle burgle
03-04-2010, 09:51 PM
In the movies (http://www.actionprops.com/catalog/item/2273725/1711951.htm), sure... all the time.

haha...i like the extra effort with the link added :thumbsup:

nice

SteelersinCA
03-05-2010, 09:46 AM
I don't have a problem coming to England I just stated my belief and the way I was brought up. I was raised man and woman getting married and I don't agree with it any other way and if I step on peoples toes then I am sorry. I will not change my belief that it is ok for two woman or two men to get married.

believe in separation of church and state?

Gnutella
03-05-2010, 10:18 AM
At least the gay marriage debate is being decided at the state level -- where all social policy should be decided.

MasterOfPuppets
03-05-2010, 10:00 PM
more business for divorce lawyers ....:popcorn:

zulater
03-06-2010, 11:54 AM
more business for divorce lawyers ....:popcorn:

Maybe this will bring their prices down? :chuckle:

WH
03-09-2010, 11:11 AM
The Catholic church overlooks homosexual child rape. Who should give a shit what they think. Ever.

Good for the gays, now they have less to bitch about.