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Dino 6 Rings
03-10-2010, 05:00 PM
On a serious note .....Does anyone know why no charges have been filed by now .....one would think if they found dna evidence that would be at least enough to give probable cause????

They need his sample to compare against and I don't see it reported that he provided any as of yet.

theplatypus
03-10-2010, 05:01 PM
I would be surprised if we hear anything from him at all.

TackleMeBen
03-10-2010, 05:01 PM
:rofl:

I swear, if her falling is what this whole thing got blown up over, I'll pop a cap in someone lol.
can someone please take all the guns out of SteelMom's city... :wink02:

pete74
03-10-2010, 05:01 PM
On a serious note .....Does anyone know why no charges have been filed by now .....one would think if they found dna evidence that would be at least enough to give probable cause????

it would be abnormal if charges were filed this soon. it takes a while to gather all the testimonies and collect all the evidence

Fire Haley
03-10-2010, 05:01 PM
So what do we know today we didn't know yesterday?


Ben had two off-duty police officers with him the whole time.

The facebook accounts of her girlfriends have been taken down, with second hand reports that some of the messages might have actually indicated that Ben didn't do what he allegedly did.

pete74
03-10-2010, 05:03 PM
They need his sample to compare against and I don't see it reported that he provided any as of yet.

it could be anything. maybe she scratched him and had some skin under her nails.

TackleMeBen
03-10-2010, 05:03 PM
So what do we know today we didn't know yesterday?


Ben had two off-duty police officers with him the whole time.

The facebook accounts of her girlfriends have been taken down, with second hand reports that some of the messages might have actually indicated that Roethlisberger didn't do what he allegedly did.
i am sure that bens atty can get a hold of those facebook pages and check their content..

SteelCityMom
03-10-2010, 05:04 PM
Its mentioned prominently in the KDKA video at the above link. She apparently "slipped on something", and "hit her head", as awful as that sounds. :yikes: :ouch: :huh:

That's probably how "the DNA" got on her. No, that doesn't sound right. She slipped on it. No, she fell into it. No, wait.......

Can you link it? I'm looking at KDKA.com and can't find the vid even though it's probably staring me in the face lol.

Vincent
03-10-2010, 05:18 PM
Can you link it? I'm looking at KDKA.com and can't find the vid even though it's probably staring me in the face lol.

http://kdka.com/steelers/Capital.city.security.2.1551543.html

It was in the video box on the upper right of this page. It was the video that began with Ed Garland's face. The current video starts with Ed but has more video's behind it. The one I saw had a "criminal defense attorney" Bob Del Grecko commenting on how it would affect the case to have "DNA AND a victim with a bruised head". That video may be behind the ones currently appearing in that box.

I just saw it again. Its several videos back in the stack in an Andy Sheehan segment.

Northside Jonny
03-10-2010, 05:22 PM
This sucks I would much rather be talking about the draft with you all . Thanks for the piss poor judgement Mr. Ben.

plenewken
03-10-2010, 05:24 PM
After the latest revelations, it doesn't look too good for Ben. Pgh TV News just reported than Ben told friends that he had sex with this girl but no intercourse, and it was consensual.
Yeah right! Problem is the girl called the cops for sexual assault and she went to the hospital where they found out she had bruises.
It's gonna be tough for Ben to get out of this mess. All the facts now corroborate the girl's version.
And after the legal side of the equation, he's gonna have to respond to the Rooneys and Tomlin about his off-season f*ck-ups.

Fire Haley
03-10-2010, 05:26 PM
All the facts now corroborate the girl's version.

Bullshit

fansince'76
03-10-2010, 05:27 PM
Can you link it? I'm looking at KDKA.com and can't find the vid even though it's probably staring me in the face lol.

A more direct link: http://kdka.com/video/?id=70082@kdka.dayport.com

Silverback92
03-10-2010, 05:27 PM
From a story that just released 5 min ago:

And in this regard, the KDKA Investigators have learned that Roethlisberger told both police and others in his party that he did not have sexual intercourse with the young woman.

Sources say Roethlisberger concedes that he did have contact with the woman that was not consummated and that afterward the woman slipped and fell, injuring her head.

It's an event that could be a problem for his defense since the woman immediately went to a local hospital and alleged that she was sexually assaulted.

"With sexual assault cases, the question becomes, 'If it's not true, what is the motive and why isn't it true?,'" Bob Del Greco, a defense attorney in Pittsburgh, said.

Georgian investigators are asking for Roethlisberger's DNA, presumably to match some substances taken from the woman at the hospital.

Del Greco says such evidence in conjunction with a head injury could present evidence of a sexual attack.

"Why does she have the bump on the head and theoretically, why do we have your DNA," says Del Greco, "and why did she come to the hospital for this matter, because if it was a consensual matter and she bumped her head, should could have certainly have gone to the hospital and said, 'I bumped my head.'"

Georgian investigators have said they want to interview Roethlisberger in the next few days and are requesting his DNA, but at this point his attorney has not agreed.

But Del Greco says in the meantime, investigators appear to be building a formidable case against Roethlisberger.

"It almost seems to put the onus on the accused or the perpetrator, the defense to tell the prosecutor say why isn't this so and why shouldn't I bring these charges," Del Greco said.

Source: http://kdka.com/local/Ben.Roethlisberger.allegations.2.1552133.html

SteelCityMom
03-10-2010, 05:29 PM
http://kdka.com/steelers/Capital.city.security.2.1551543.html

It was in the video box on the upper right of this page. It was the video that began with Ed Garland's face. The current video starts with Ed but has more video's behind it. The one I saw had a "criminal defense attorney" Bob Del Grecko commenting on how it would affect the case to have "DNA AND a victim with a bruised head". That video may be behind the ones currently appearing in that box.

I just saw it again. Its several videos back in the stack in an Andy Sheehan segment.

Oh ok...it's the one that says "Sources Reveal Roethlisberger's Version of Events".

Yeah, it kind of gives the impression that they were fooling around, but never had sex, and she slipped and fell. Who knows, this could very much end up still being a he said /she said type of thing. We'll see.

pete74
03-10-2010, 05:30 PM
:coffee: let me more when the bs gets even more out of hand....lol

its more out of hand

SteelCityMom
03-10-2010, 05:31 PM
After the latest revelations, it doesn't look too good for Ben. Pgh TV News just reported than Ben told friends that he had sex with this girl but no intercourse, and it was consensual.
Yeah right! Problem is the girl called the cops for sexual assault and she went to the hospital where they found out she had bruises.
It's gonna be tough for Ben to get out of this mess. All the facts now corroborate the girl's version.
And after the legal side of the equation, he's gonna have to respond to the Rooneys and Tomlin about his off-season f*ck-ups.

Haha, not to nitpick, but how can you have sex with someone but not intercourse?

stillers4me
03-10-2010, 05:32 PM
After the latest revelations, it doesn't look too good for Ben. Pgh TV News just reported than Ben told friends that he had sex with this girl but no intercourse, and it was consensual.
Yeah right! Problem is the girl called the cops for sexual assault and she went to the hospital where they found out she had bruises.
It's gonna be tough for Ben to get out of this mess. All the facts now corroborate the girl's version.
And after the legal side of the equation, he's gonna have to respond to the Rooneys and Tomlin about his off-season f*ck-ups.

And we haven't heard much at all from tthe other side, have we?? Kobe, Jerome, and the Duke LaCross team looked pretty bad when the case first broke, too.

Fire Haley
03-10-2010, 05:34 PM
Haha, not to nitpick, but how can you have sex with someone but not intercourse?

A finger can do magical things.

plenewken
03-10-2010, 05:34 PM
Haha, not to nitpick, but how can you have sex with someone but not intercourse?

Ask Bill Clinton, he's an expert on the subject, LOL

RoethlisBURGHer
03-10-2010, 05:34 PM
We're not. His lawyer has already advised him not to speak, that's why the one comment is via his lawyer. This is a bigger deal than the Nevada case because this one may carry criminal charges.

If (hopefully when) it's found that he's not guilty of anything and won't be charged, then we will probably hear from him in a short statement where he says he is relieved that the truth came out and that he's not being charged because he's not a criminal. I also hopes he apologizes to the Steelers ownership, front office, coaches, players, and fans for the position he has put them all in.

tony hipchest
03-10-2010, 05:37 PM
I wonder what sorrority it was?

Zeta Tau Alpha's facebook page seems pretty stripped of content.

could be Alpha Delta Pi or Delta Zeta too, I wonder which one it is and why they wanted their facebook locked down? Could there be some "nonsense" pictures up of the girls acting less than proper while drinking underage out on the town? Just wondering.it was Smegma Pi.

Vincent
03-10-2010, 05:38 PM
Oh ok...it's the one that says "Sources Reveal Roethlisberger's Version of Events".

Yeah, it kind of gives the impression that they were fooling around, but never had sex, and she slipped and fell. Who knows, this could very much end up still being a he said /she said type of thing. We'll see.

Yeah, he sent her on a "post pattern". :wink02: She slipped on "DNA" and bumped her head.

Nothing to see here people. Move along.

+NuBbS+
03-10-2010, 05:38 PM
i just watched the video... so if she slipped and hit her head, went to the hospital, should they have checked her for consumption of alcohol due to the fact shes under 21? if she had any alcohol in her system at all, she can pack her bags and leave lol.... but b4 i get too into this situation, im still not buying it.... :coffee:

plenewken
03-10-2010, 05:40 PM
it was Smegma Pi.

LOL .......... and the National President is Jack U. Lation.

Steel Mountain
03-10-2010, 05:42 PM
I can hear it now...Ben: "hey Baby, you ever have a millionaire in your mouth?" "HeHeHe, hiccup. No but...slip fall go boom. Then her big question...what happened? That is where she will have her downfall. Drunk, cannot remember details and a good trial lawyer eats her for lunch (no pun intended) in a court of law. Mark my words, Bens rep is already set in the public eye. Hers is about to go down the toilet. He will continue to make more millions, she will struggle to find a new college and a job with her new found reputation and baggage. Sad really.

Vincent
03-10-2010, 05:43 PM
LOL .......... and the National President is Jack U. Lation.

Its a sorority. Betty Goesdown.

Vincent
03-10-2010, 05:45 PM
The Millidgeville poe-leese need to interview this forum. We have a great deal of light to shed on this here story.

+NuBbS+
03-10-2010, 05:46 PM
it was Smegma Pi.

ROFL :rofl:

plenewken
03-10-2010, 05:46 PM
I can hear it now...Ben: "hey Baby, you ever have a millionaire in your mouth?" "HeHeHe, hiccup. No but...slip fall go boom. Then her big question...what happened? That is where she will have her downfall. Drunk, cannot remember details and a good trial lawyer eats her for lunch (no pun intended) in a court of law. Mark my words, Bens rep is already set in the public eye. Hers is about to go down the toilet. He will continue to make more millions, she will struggle to find a new college and a job with her new found reputation and baggage. Sad really.

Mark my words, he's in trouble. He's already established a pattern of poor judgement (bike accident without a license and a helmet) and his civil case in NV ain't gonna help him either.
He better settle before the sh*t hits the fan.

Steel Mountain
03-10-2010, 05:55 PM
Mark my words, he's in trouble. He's already established a pattern of poor judgement (bike accident without a license and a helmet) and his civil case in NV ain't gonna help him either.
He better settle before the sh*t hits the fan.

I won`t go so far as to say you are wrong, but imagine a killer trial defense attorney with a 20 year old basket case on the stand. I do not know very many 20 year old girls that can drink w/ 300 lb. football players and remember a single thing the next day, let alone months later. For right or wrong his lawyers will make her out to be a drunken kid who simply has regrets. That is why these guys make millions. They are just that good. Why do you think OJ and RayRay got off. Ray is still killin the paychecks and OJ would be living large if he wasn`t completely stupid. I think Ben would be stupid to settle if he is sure in his heart that he committed no crime and his lawyer advises him not to do so. I do not know you, perhaps your are a fantastic attorney. I am skeptical of that, so lets all break out some popcorn and watch. I hate it when folks shout during the movie!

pete74
03-10-2010, 05:57 PM
I won`t go so far as to say you are wrong, but imagine a killer trial defense attorney with a 20 year old basket case on the stand. I do not know very many 20 year old girls that can drink w/ 300 lb. football players and remember a single thing the next day, let alone months later. For right or wrong his lawyers will make her out to be a drunken kid who simply has regrets. That is why these guys make millions. They are just that good. Why do you think OJ and RayRay got off. Ray is still killin the paychecks and OJ would be living large if he wasn`t completely stupid. I think Ben would be stupid to settle if he is sure in his heart that he committed no crime and his lawyer advises him not to do so. I do not know you, perhaps your are a fantastic attorney. I am skeptical of that, so lets all break out some popcorn and watch. I hate it when folks shout during the movie!

who says the girl is a basket case? she can be a premed student for all we know. also im sure her BAL was checked but nobody knows yet if she even had a drink and if she did if ben bought it for her

tony hipchest
03-10-2010, 05:58 PM
LOL .......... and the National President is Jack U. Lation.:chuckle:

VP- Hugh G. Rection

ricardisimo
03-10-2010, 06:15 PM
How about "When do we hear from Colon"? He was supposedly there, and you'd think the first words out of his mouth (assuming that Ben is an innocent pawn in some malevolent vixen's masterful chess game) would be "he didn't do nuthin'".

If I remember correctly, Colon was very eager to talk smack about womanhood in general after the civil case first hit the news. He offered up a whole lot of that "you know how women are" nonsense. Odd that he's not so quick this time around. Hmmm...

Dennis Dixon's looking better and better to me, I guess.

Shoes
03-10-2010, 06:26 PM
...........another Ben thread?

+NuBbS+
03-10-2010, 06:30 PM
well according to Jason La Canfora, Ben met with the Steelers organization the nite of the incident. Also the police office and state trooper who were with him, came with him to keep gold diggers like this girl off of him. But the rooney's are pissed. So ben better shape up or the way it sounds, he will be "shipped out"

pete74
03-10-2010, 06:32 PM
How about "When do we hear from Colon"? He was supposedly there, and you'd think the first words out of his mouth (assuming that Ben is an innocent pawn in some malevolent vixen's masterful chess game) would be "he didn't do nuthin'".

If I remember correctly, Colon was very eager to talk smack about womanhood in general after the civil case first hit the news. He offered up a whole lot of that "you know how women are" nonsense. Odd that he's not so quick this time around. Hmmm...

Dennis Dixon's looking better and better to me, I guess.

colon did talk. he said he was on the dance floor and didnt see a thing. as for ben, his lawyer wont let him talk and certainly wont let him appologize for it because that would admit he was in the wrong and thats the last thing he wants when an investigation os going on

Vincent
03-10-2010, 06:36 PM
...........another Ben thread?

Yes. This fascinating aspect of the case hasn't been discussed ad nauseum (legal term for beating a dead horse to death) in the other treads.

And I'd like to hear more from Willy on "how women are".

Godfather
03-10-2010, 06:37 PM
Ask Bill Clinton, he's an expert on the subject, LOL

You mean Ken Starr. Clinton says it has to be intercourse to be sex :popcorn:

Steel_Bus_24
03-10-2010, 06:37 PM
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/03/10/report-roethlisberger-admitted-to-having-sexual-contact-with-alleged-victim/

Report: Roethlisberger admitted to having "sexual contact" with alleged victim
Posted by Mike Florio on March 10, 2010 7:02 PM ET
As the investigation regarding the sexual assault allegations against Steelers quarterback Ben Roethlisberger continues, KDKA-TV in Pittsburgh reports that Roethlisberger has conceded having "sexual contact" with the woman who claims sexual assault, but that there was no intercourse.

The admission apparently came during an interview of Roethlisberger conducted at the scene.

Per the report, Roethlisberger claims that the woman fell and injured her head after the incident. She then went to a hospital and alleged that she was sexually assaulted.

Police have requested a DNA sample from Roethlisberger, but attorney Ed Garland has not yet agreed either to make a DNA sample available or to make Roethlisberger available for another interview.





The lawyer not immediately giving consent to DNA samples doesn't make Ben look good

zulater
03-10-2010, 06:43 PM
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/03/10/report-roethlisberger-admitted-to-having-sexual-contact-with-alleged-victim/


Report: Roethlisberger admitted to having "sexual contact" with alleged victim
Posted by Mike Florio on March 10, 2010 7:02 PM ET
As the investigation regarding the sexual assault allegations against Steelers quarterback Ben Roethlisberger continues, KDKA-TV in Pittsburgh reports that Roethlisberger has conceded having "sexual contact" with the woman who claims sexual assault, but that there was no intercourse.

The admission apparently came during an interview of Roethlisberger conducted at the scene.

Per the report, Roethlisberger claims that the woman fell and injured her head after the incident. She then went to a hospital and alleged that she was sexually assaulted.

Police have requested a DNA sample from Roethlisberger, but attorney Ed Garland has not yet agreed either to make a DNA sample available or to make Roethlisberger available for another interview.



The lawyer not immediately giving consent to DNA samples doesn't make Ben look good

Interesting.

Larry
03-10-2010, 06:52 PM
Uh oh......spaghettios.

KartSteel
03-10-2010, 06:57 PM
Hi Guys, I was watching the NFL Network & they just reported that Ben was in Pittsburgh & has spoken to the Steelers brass regarding what happened that night. Apperantly an unamed source at KDKA has stated that Ben told the Steelers brass that he did have some kind of contact with the woman but did not have sex with her. She slipped & fell on the floor which caused her injuries. Ben also spoke to the police that night. The Steelers organization is very concerned right now due to the two incidences that occurred & they are coming to the point that if there is anything else like this that occurrs, they will terminate his contract. If I hear anything else, I will let fellow Steeler brothers know.

HometownGal
03-10-2010, 06:58 PM
Consensual sexual contact is NOT sexual assault by any definition.

I am waiting with baited breath for her blood alcohol results.

So many stories going around - I'm going to wait until I have concrete facts from the law enforcement agencies involved before I go pointing my finger.

Steel_Bus_24
03-10-2010, 07:07 PM
Consensual sexual contact is NOT sexual assault by any definition.

I am waiting with baited breath for her blood alcohol results.

So many stories going around - I'm going to wait until I have concrete facts from the law enforcement agencies involved before I go pointing my finger.


QFT..............IMO it doesn't look good now:banging:, but the Duke lacrosse case didn't look good for those guys either.....its a process that needs to run its course



This crap fffffing sucks though:mad:....like we didn't have enough worries in just the realm of making our team better

Prok
03-10-2010, 07:10 PM
Christ... I was one of those who enjoyed frequenting other teams MB's. Not anymore. Seems 99% of opposing fans have him convicted and out of the league now..... This freakin' blows...

:mad:

zulater
03-10-2010, 07:11 PM
QFT..............IMO it doesn't look good now:banging:, but the Duke lacrosse case didn't look good for those guys either.....its a process that needs to run its course



This crap fffffing sucks though:mad:....like we didn't have enough worries in just the realm of making our team better



I don't know, it looks a little beter to me now than it did before. I could easily see Ben getting off with no felony conviction if what he reportedly said is close to the truth. It sounds plausible.

HAWK
03-10-2010, 07:15 PM
What makes me angry is that IF Ben is innocent he will always be considered a sleeze bag. Which to a point is OK...but crap like this happens every night (I'm talking consensual) in bars across the world. But all of a sudden Ben's a freak. It's hypocritical.

zulater
03-10-2010, 07:15 PM
Uh oh......spaghettios.

Why? I see light at the end of the tunnell for the first time this week. I can see where Ben's story is plausible, way short of felony sexual assualt. I'm not predicting he'll skate away scott free, but I can see where he can wiggle out of this with his Steelers career intact. :thumbsup:

Steel_Bus_24
03-10-2010, 07:16 PM
I don't know, it looks a little beter to me now than it did before. I could easily see Ben getting off with no felony conviction if what he reportedly said is close to the truth. It sounds plausible.


need to wait and see, the girls sorority "vanishing" is mighty curious as well


but Im having a harder time believing this won't go to trial or Ben settles

HometownGal
03-10-2010, 07:17 PM
Christ... I was one of those who enjoyed frequenting other teams MB's. Not anymore. Seems 99% of opposing fans have him convicted and out of the league now..... This freakin' blows...

:mad:

That doesn't surprise me in the least, but what really blows chunks is that 75% of Steelers fans already have him tried, convicted and sentenced. :banging:

If and when it is revealed that this allegation was a crock of :poop:, I can't wait to see some of these people hopping right back up on the Ben Express. :eye:

zulater
03-10-2010, 07:19 PM
need to wait and see, the girls sorority "vanishing" is mighty curious as well


but Im having a harder time believing this won't go to trial or Ben settles

I think she went underground because that's what her lawyer advised her to do. I wouldn't be too worried about it.

KYsteelfan
03-10-2010, 07:20 PM
i can see with him coming out and saying that there was contact, specifically sexual conduct, that this could help out in the end, however they are saying that Ed Garland hasnt agreed to let Ben do a DNA test, which is puzzling. so on one side, im relieved, but then worried again by not allowing DNA. Im really hoping for the best

stillers4me
03-10-2010, 07:20 PM
Ben's lawyer won't let him give a DNA sample unless it's subpoenaed. That's what any lawyer would tell him to do. and this isn't just any lawyer. He knows what he's doing. They have to have probable cause to subpoena DNA. Let's hope it stays that way.

Steel_Bus_24
03-10-2010, 07:22 PM
I think she went underground because that's what her lawyer advised her to do. I wouldn't be too worried about it.


yeah I can see her vanishing, but her whole sorority closing down too????

Prok
03-10-2010, 07:23 PM
That doesn't surprise me in the least, but what really blows chunks is that 75% of Steelers fans already have him tried, convicted and sentenced. :banging:

If and when it is revealed that this allegation was a crock of :poop:, I can't wait to see some of these people hopping right back up on the Ben Express. :eye:

Gawd I hope your right.

I've already told friends i won't be posting at those boards any longer. Can't even engage in another topic without Ben getting brought up.

I can tell ya i've taken note a bit as to who said what in the event that he's innocent. Not that any of the comments are good anyways.

Totally agree that majority of Steelers fans have him guilty as well. And quite frankly that scares the crap out of me.

On the bright side you know I won't be cheating on this MB any time soon again. :wink02:

I'm gonna miss being a MB swinger. :chuckle:

zulater
03-10-2010, 07:23 PM
That doesn't surprise me in the least, but what really blows chunks is that 75% of Steelers fans already have him tried, convicted and sentenced. :banging:

If and when it is revealed that this allegation was a crock of :poop:, I can't wait to see some of these people hopping right back up on the Ben Express. :eye:

I don't get it with your attitude. Even if Ben isn't convicted of a major crime he still needs to get his act together. He f'ed up, big time and embarassed everyone associated with him, including us fans. We have a right to be pissed at him regardless of the outcome of this case.The Rooney's are reportedly furious with him. Is your post directed at them as well?


:coffee:

SteelCityMom
03-10-2010, 07:25 PM
I think she went underground because that's what her lawyer advised her to do. I wouldn't be too worried about it.

No, he means the whole sorority went underground. Members have been advised to take down their FB pages and they've even been asked not to wear anything with their sorority letters on it. After thinking about it, only thing I can figure is that it might make it more difficult for the defense to snoop around.

stillers4me
03-10-2010, 07:31 PM
The thing I just have to shake my head about is that reading all this crap for the last couple of days, the media makes it sound like Ben and his entourage swooped into the quiet, little college town like a locust plague and raped and pillage a whole sorority, and then hopped back onto their Viking ship to exploit some other poor innocents.

Steel Mountain
03-10-2010, 07:33 PM
My wife and I just came up w/ a big money making idea. It is a game for college kids called the Big Ben DNA slip-n-slide. Prolly a little graphic for some, but "loads" of fun for young college girls!

Northside Jonny
03-10-2010, 07:42 PM
Personally I'm tired of the whole thing already. I just want to see some Steeler Football. With or without Ben, and no I have yet to make up my mind about the situation and probably won't till it is all said and done.
I will take the wait and see approach thank you.

stillers4me
03-10-2010, 07:51 PM
Personally I'm tired of the whole thing already. I just want to see some Steeler Football. With or without Ben, and no I have yet to make up my mind about the situation and probably won't till it is all said and done.
I will take the wait and see approach thank you.

And remember not long ago when Jeff Reed was our bad boy?? :chuckle:

Prok
03-10-2010, 08:04 PM
The thing I just have to shake my head about is that reading all this crap for the last couple of days, the media makes it sound like Ben and his entourage swooped into the quiet, little college town like a locust plague and raped and pillage a whole sorority, and then hopped back onto their Viking ship to exploit some other poor innocents.

That's how it's been from the get-go imo.

Seems ANY little bit of info that gets leaked out paints Ben in a negative light. I'm afraid it's only gonna get worse too. Just seems to be the way this whole ordeal is shaking out.

:banging:

Steel Mountain
03-10-2010, 08:05 PM
Personally I'm tired of the whole thing already. I just want to see some Steeler Football. With or without Ben, and no I have yet to make up my mind about the situation and probably won't till it is all said and done.
I will take the wait and see approach thank you.

Good post! I like BB as a QB, but I do not like azzholes in any form on our team. Message to BB, adult up or get out! Everyone has always said that a great team only needs a solid QB to win it all. Play football or play puzzy, take your pick big boy, but you cannot have both in the burgh.

stillers4me
03-10-2010, 08:21 PM
Reports say that Ben admitted to some type of sexual contact the night the police questioned him. Why would he admit that if he were guilty? I think the girl hit her head the way he said she did, she was too embarrassed to admit how it happened , so she concocted the assault story ( 6'5", 2 hundred and forty ONE pounds, google is her friend). Much easier to ruin a man's life than admit you got skanky with someone you barely know in public restroom.

Or he could be guilty. :hunch:

And really, the info that's been leaked is from her side. Of course it looks bad.

Fire Haley
03-10-2010, 08:27 PM
Reports say that Ben admitted to... some type of sexual contact ......the girl hit her head .....

Sounds like a BJ and finger bang gone wrong. Correct me if I'm wrong.

Fire Haley
03-10-2010, 08:28 PM
This is what gets me

Wille Colon: "I see nothing"

http://coacheshotseat.com/coacheshotseatblog/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/Schultz.jpg

tony hipchest
03-10-2010, 08:33 PM
willie is cool as a clam...

a tight lipped clam.

KYsteelfan
03-10-2010, 08:43 PM
And remember not long ago when Jeff Reed was our bad boy?? :chuckle:

ah the good ole days when all we had to worry about was our kicker breaking random restroom equipment.... lol

Prok
03-10-2010, 08:43 PM
This is what gets me

Wille Colon: "I see nothing"

http://coacheshotseat.com/coacheshotseatblog/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/Schultz.jpg

I made mention of that yesterday, i think. It gets me too. IMO there IS some sort of sign in there as to why Willie wants nothing to do with helping Ben. I personally think he seen what was going down and looked the other way.

HometownGal
03-10-2010, 08:48 PM
I don't get it with your attitude. Even if Ben isn't convicted of a major crime he still needs to get his act together. He f'ed up, big time and embarassed everyone associated with him, including us fans. We have a right to be pissed at him regardless of the outcome of this case.The Rooney's are reportedly furious with him. Is your post directed at them as well?


:coffee:

Oh for God's sake - come down off your almighty high horse already. I'm sick and damned tired of your condescending and self-righteous attitude around here. This is a board of opinions and your opinions hold no more or less credibility than anyone else's, contrary to your belief.

You tell me how many of these finger pointers haven't done some of the same things Ben has done - on the job and off - but have the audacity to point their hypocritical fingers, try and convict the man before any evidence has been formally presented.

The Rooney's are reportedly furious with him. Is your post directed at them as well?

Do you have first hand knowledge of the Rooneys feelings on this matter? Gee - since you are so tight with the Rooneys, maybe you can score some tix for us who aren't in the know around here.

:yawn: :coffee:

Shoes
03-10-2010, 08:49 PM
I made mention of that yesterday, i think. It gets me too. IMO there IS some sort of sign in there as to why Willie wants nothing to do with helping Ben. I personally think he seen what was going down and looked the other way.

Prok, you should get a job writing soap opera's :chuckle:

Fire Haley
03-10-2010, 08:52 PM
Yeah - this is pretty much cut and dried.

Ben likes to have sex with random women in bathrooms.


Like Tomlin says: "Put it on tape"

tony hipchest
03-10-2010, 08:56 PM
Like Tomlin says: "Put it on tape"

:laughing:...............:applaudit:

Prok
03-10-2010, 08:57 PM
Prok, you should get a job writing soap opera's :chuckle:

LOL

If only you knew what my real life away from the internet is like.

:chuckle:

SteelersinCA
03-10-2010, 09:13 PM
Haha, not to nitpick, but how can you have sex with someone but not intercourse?

See Bill Clinton please.

steelreserve
03-10-2010, 09:29 PM
That doesn't surprise me in the least, but what really blows chunks is that 75% of Steelers fans already have him tried, convicted and sentenced. :banging:

I don't think that's true at all. Only a very few people are jumping to the conclusion that he's guilty. What most people DO think (correctly) is that he's a dumbass because of this. Learn the difference.

SteelersinCA
03-10-2010, 09:33 PM
You guys are getting way too hung up on her blood alcohol level and the DNA.

#1, they are going to find his DNA on her. No doubt about it. If I hang out with you drinking beers, they will find our DNA on each other. The important thing is what kind of DNA and where. If she has his DNA under her fingernails, for instance, no bueno. If it's on her shirt and she has no injuries other than a bump on her head, that means nothing. Even if she has his DNA oozing out of one of her orifices, what does that mean? They had sexual contact! Sexual contact is legal. As a criminal defense attorney myself (prepare for shameless plug) www.sohovichlaw.com (http://www.sohovichlaw.com) I don't give 2 flying F's if they find his DNA on her, hell I expect them to!

#2 He'll give a DNA sample, but once they see what the police can dig up. You don't go handing them evidence. If it gets to the point where charges are going to be filed, Ben will give a sample. Why? Because it's easy to get one when they arrest him, the court will order it. There is no sense pissing upstream.

#3 Her BAC is inconsequential. What are you going to say she was so drunk she didn't know up from down? OK then genius, how did she consent? That's still assault my brotha. You don't want her so drunk she's a bumbling stumbling fool. You want her clear thinking. I know this may rain on some of your parades, but just because she doesn't say "no", it doesn't mean "yes." :chuckle:

Why on earth Ben talked to police on the night of the incident, I have no clue. You NEVER EVER EVER talk to police. I don't care if you didn't do it, you don't talk to them. There is a reason they tell you ANYTHING you say CAN and WILL be used against you. They actually mean that part!

That all being said, I would caution anyone to jump to conclusions regarding his guilt or innocence. Facebook and myspace are criminal attorney goldmines. It is a smart move to have her friends take down their pages, but I guarantee that won't last. Some idiot will create a new one. I understand the desire to read into every little factoid that comes out, but context is the key. Did she slip walking out of the bathroom, was she running away? You see without the context these facts mean very little.

Make no mistake though, Ben is in a shitstorm. :drink:

Prok
03-10-2010, 09:45 PM
You guys are getting way too hung up on her blood alcohol level and the DNA.

#1, they are going to find his DNA on her. No doubt about it. If I hang out with you drinking beers, they will find our DNA on each other. The important thing is what kind of DNA and where. If she has his DNA under her fingernails, for instance, no bueno. If it's on her shirt and she has no injuries other than a bump on her head, that means nothing. Even if she has his DNA oozing out of one of her orifices, what does that mean? They had sexual contact! Sexual contact is legal. As a criminal defense attorney myself (prepare for shameless plug) www.sohovichlaw.com (http://www.sohovichlaw.com) I don't give 2 flying F's if they find his DNA on her, hell I expect them to!

#2 He'll give a DNA sample, but once they see what the police can dig up. You don't go handing them evidence. If it gets to the point where charges are going to be filed, Ben will give a sample. Why? Because it's easy to get one when they arrest him, the court will order it. There is no sense pissing upstream.

#3 Her BAC is inconsequential. What are you going to say she was so drunk she didn't know up from down? OK then genius, how did she consent? That's still assault my brotha. You don't want her so drunk she's a bumbling stumbling fool. You want her clear thinking. I know this may rain on some of your parades, but just because she doesn't say "no", it doesn't mean "yes." :chuckle:

Why on earth Ben talked to police on the night of the incident, I have no clue. You NEVER EVER EVER talk to police. I don't care if you didn't do it, you don't talk to them. There is a reason they tell you ANYTHING you say CAN and WILL be used against you. They actually mean that part!

That all being said, I would caution anyone to jump to conclusions regarding his guilt or innocence. Facebook and myspace are criminal attorney goldmines. It is a smart move to have her friends take down their pages, but I guarantee that won't last. Some idiot will create a new one. I understand the desire to read into every little factoid that comes out, but context is the key. Did she slip walking out of the bathroom, was she running away? You see without the context these facts mean very little.

Make no mistake though, Ben is in a shitstorm. :drink:

Good post. I think the reason he chose to speak to police was that he didn't want them getting any impressions he felt guilty, maybe?

Heart4Steelers
03-10-2010, 09:46 PM
IF she was injured to the point that she needed medical attention, why didn't Ben take her to the hospital?

I can't reconcile the fact that she described Ben as 6'5" and 241 lbs, the exact measurements posted on the team page.

fansince'76
03-10-2010, 09:47 PM
I don't think that's true at all. Only a very few people are jumping to the conclusion that he's guilty. What most people DO think (correctly) is that he's a dumbass because of this. Learn the difference.

Uh-huh. That would explain the plethora of threads and posts with people either resigning themselves to Dixon being the starting QB from here on out, or that we're picking up Derek freaking Anderson of all people (among others) to fill the void once Ben's career is over.

Steel_Bus_24
03-10-2010, 09:49 PM
IF she was injured to the point that she needed medical attention, why didn't Ben take her to the hospital?

I can't reconcile the fact that she described Ben as 6'5" and 241 lbs, the exact measurements posted on the team page.

and her whole sorority disbanded

OX1947
03-10-2010, 09:52 PM
Uh-huh. That would explain the plethora of threads and posts with people either resigning themselves to Dixon being the starting QB from here on out, or that we're picking up Derek freaking Anderson of all people (among others) to fill the void once Ben's career is over.

I have been reading many of these posts, at it seems some of you are reading what you want to read. I am not reading people throwing the kitchen sink at Ben. However, I am reading that they think he has created a list of brainless activities. However, you are right about Derek Anderson, i threw up in my mouth at even thought of that guy in a Steeler uni. I would take my chances with Dixon or pick up Delhomme before I would even fathom Derek Anderson even in the city of Pittsburgh.

UltimateBengal
03-10-2010, 09:53 PM
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/03/10/report-roethlisberger-admitted-to-having-sexual-contact-with-alleged-victim/

Report: Roethlisberger admitted to having "sexual contact" with alleged victim
Posted by Mike Florio on March 10, 2010 7:02 PM ET
As the investigation regarding the sexual assault allegations against Steelers quarterback Ben Roethlisberger continues, KDKA-TV in Pittsburgh reports that Roethlisberger has conceded having "sexual contact" with the woman who claims sexual assault, but that there was no intercourse.

The admission apparently came during an interview of Roethlisberger conducted at the scene.

Per the report, Roethlisberger claims that the woman fell and injured her head after the incident. She then went to a hospital and alleged that she was sexually assaulted.

Police have requested a DNA sample from Roethlisberger, but attorney Ed Garland has not yet agreed either to make a DNA sample available or to make Roethlisberger available for another interview.





The lawyer not immediately giving consent to DNA samples doesn't make Ben look good

OK gang, here's what I don't get. So now it's circulating that all Ben did was gently insert his one eyed pony into her saliva drenched skull cave, and then when she was finished taking in her daily protein, she fell an hit her head? What? Was Big Ben's skin blunt that intoxicating that it caused her to develop a sudden case of vertigo? And their have been a couple of people on this board that have suggested Ben's action were no different than the members of this site have done at some point in their lives. Really? How many of the board members have walked into a college bar and told the bouncers to keep all the guys out and let anyone sporting funbags in? I'm gonna have to try that this weekend and see how it goes?

Now, I'm only having fun of course. We don't know what really happened. I doubt Ben forced the girl perform, but should he be scouting college chicks like he's Mel Kiper? Should he be offering to get them liquored up? Should he be telling bouncers to keep the guys away? NO! Good Lord. Even if the guy is 100% innocent, he did everything he could to look guilty. It's like getting caught with bloody hands, a knife, and a how to kill book in your possession! You might be innocent, but you damn sure put yourself in a position to look guilty as hell!!! By the way, getting the same lawyer who got Ray Lewis off a murder charge doesn't exactly help either. For the sake of Steeler fans and the team, I hope Ben is just a dumbass and not a sexual predator!

Shea
03-10-2010, 09:55 PM
I can't reconcile the fact that she described Ben as 6'5" and 241 lbs, the exact measurements posted on the team page.

I know this has been brought up many times but where exactly was it reported that she actually said that?

I've been reading all over the internet about this the last few days and am starting to get everything boogled up so I don't remember.

Anyone have a link?

Fire Haley
03-10-2010, 09:59 PM
Calm down little junior CSI detectives


all will be revealed in due time

mesaSteeler
03-10-2010, 10:01 PM
Calm down little junior CSI detectives


all will be revealed in good time

Well said!

Prok
03-10-2010, 10:03 PM
Uh-huh. That would explain the plethora of threads and posts with people either resigning themselves to Dixon being the starting QB from here on out, or that we're picking up Derek freaking Anderson of all people (among others) to fill the void once Ben's career is over.

Just for the hell of it i checked out the other Steelers board i used to frequent tonight. There are Steelers fans there that will NEVER root for him again. And one is the board owner....

I haven't even bothered to re-register there since they changed some things months ago.

Heart4Steelers
03-10-2010, 10:05 PM
I know this has been brought up many times but where exactly was it reported that she actually said that?

I've been reading all over the internet about this the last few days and am starting to get everything boogled up so I don't remember.

Anyone have a link?



You probably can find it on TMZ in their sports section. Look for it in their past posts.

The police report was posted on post gazette. Most is blanked out. You can see his description as 6'5" 241 lbs.

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/pdf/201003/milledgeville_police_report.pdf

Heart4Steelers
03-10-2010, 10:09 PM
Just for the hell of it i checked out the other Steelers board i used to frequent tonight. There are Steelers fans there that will NEVER root for him again. And one is the board owner....

I haven't even bothered to re-register there since they changed some things months ago.

Either fury or one of it's off shoots.

HAWK
03-10-2010, 10:10 PM
Just for the hell of it i checked out the other Steelers board i used to frequent tonight. There are Steelers fans there that will NEVER root for him again. And one is the board owner....

I haven't even bothered to re-register there since they changed some things months ago.

And if it comes out that BB did nothing wrong? (hopefully...) Then what?

Prok
03-10-2010, 10:11 PM
Either fury or one of it's off shoots.

Fury? Never heard of it.

Steelreign is the one i referred to.

Prok
03-10-2010, 10:12 PM
And if it comes out that BB did nothing wrong? (hopefully...) Then what?

He'll have to find another team i guess. hopefully he gives clowns bad karma. lol

steelreserve
03-10-2010, 10:14 PM
Uh-huh. That would explain the plethora of threads and posts with people either resigning themselves to Dixon being the starting QB from here on out, or that we're picking up Derek freaking Anderson of all people (among others) to fill the void once Ben's career is over.

I don't get that impression at all from those threads. About 99% of what's in them is just "what-if." A lot of people are worrying about what would happen if he gets suspended, which doesn't seem so far-fetched unless you somehow forgot the commissioner is a complete dickhead.

This is the same phenomenon as the second half of the season. Worrying about the future -- even if it's possibly a little too much -- is not the same as "throwing a guy under the bus" or being a "bandwagon fan" or any of those types of accusations that get thrown around all the time.

tony hipchest
03-10-2010, 10:20 PM
Why on earth Ben talked to police on the night of the incident, I have no clue. You NEVER EVER EVER talk to police. I don't care if you didn't do it, you don't talk to them. There is a reason they tell you ANYTHING you say CAN and WILL be used against you. They actually mean that part!



and that is exactly how you can tell willie colon is from da hood and big been isnt. to quote ice cube... "see, im from the streets, so i know whats up..."

Steelers17
03-10-2010, 10:35 PM
OK gang, here's what I don't get. So now it's circulating that all Ben did was gently insert his one eyed pony into her saliva drenched skull cave, and then when she was finished taking in her daily protein, she fell an hit her head? What? Was Big Ben's skin blunt that intoxicating that it caused her to develop a sudden case of vertigo? And their have been a couple of people on this board that have suggested Ben's action were no different than the members of this site have done at some point in their lives. Really? How many of the board members have walked into a college bar and told the bouncers to keep all the guys out and let anyone sporting funbags in? I'm gonna have to try that this weekend and see how it goes?

Now, I'm only having fun of course. We don't know what really happened. I doubt Ben forced the girl perform, but should he be scouting college chicks like he's Mel Kiper? Should he be offering to get them liquored up? Should he be telling bouncers to keep the guys away? NO! Good Lord. Even if the guy is 100% innocent, he did everything he could to look guilty. It's like getting caught with bloody hands, a knife, and a how to kill book in your possession! You might be innocent, but you damn sure put yourself in a position to look guilty as hell!!! By the way, getting the same lawyer who got Ray Lewis off a murder charge doesn't exactly help either. For the sake of Steeler fans and the team, I hope Ben is just a dumbass and not a sexual predator!



No question, very creative defense! :tt03:

NEPAsteeler
03-10-2010, 10:43 PM
Bottom line is that Ben made some highly unwise decisions and he's now paying for it big time.

Come on, Ben. Grow up!

Texasteel
03-10-2010, 11:32 PM
I don't get it with your attitude. Even if Ben isn't convicted of a major crime he still needs to get his act together. He f'ed up, big time and embarassed everyone associated with him, including us fans. We have a right to be pissed at him regardless of the outcome of this case.The Rooney's are reportedly furious with him. Is your post directed at them as well?


:coffee:

I don't get it with yours and several others attitude. The only thing we know for sure right now is that Ben went to a couple bars and he was talking to a girl he met. Don't know about where you come from, but that is no unusual around here. We don't know for sure if he was in any restroom at all, but I've heard some talk about it like it was a fact. I haven't as of yet heard anything about the Rooney's being furious, and I would be surprise if they said that even if they were.

I know I am probably the only one here, but still, to this point have not seen what Ben did wrong.

I really think, yes this is just my opinion, that we should sit back and wait to hear the facts of the case, before we decide to execute our QB.

Prok
03-10-2010, 11:40 PM
Bottom line is that Ben made some highly unwise decisions and he's now paying for it big time.

Come on, Ben. Grow up!

Yep thats true. But all the facts have to come out. Do I fully expect charges to be filed against Ben? You damn well bet. Hell i'm pretty much resigned to KNOWING charges are coming.

One thing i'd like to mention is that, as we ALL know, we Steelers fans are a VERY proud and attached fanbase. I've searched around a bit and seen some startling responses from fellow Steelers fans. No need to post tem as i don't want to incriminate anyone whether I like them or not. But my point is that this particular incedent has shaken this very proud fanbase to it's core.

And like it or not, it's divided us. I never thought in a million years that ANYTHING would EVER divide SteelerNation. But not a doubt in my mind, this has. Or more directly Ben has.

I have never seen my beloved Steelers fanbase this frustrated, aggrivated, and any other bad emotion ya can think of. And it bothers me. Deeply troubles me. I had always believed we were and are one of the MOST proud and unified fanbases in all of sports.

This incedent has shaken this strong fanbase to it's very core. One of the saddest day's ever for me seeing that.

Either that or as others suggest, I have a flair for the soap opera dramatics. You decide. :wink02:

Heart4Steelers
03-10-2010, 11:40 PM
I don't get it with yours and several others attitude. The only thing we know for sure right now is that Ben went to a couple bars and he was talking to a girl he met. Don't know about where you come from, but that is no unusual around here. We don't know for sure if he was in any restroom at all, but I've heard some talk about it like it was a fact. I haven't as of yet heard anything about the Rooney's being furious, and I would be surprise if they said that even if they were.
I know I am probably the only one here, but still, to this point have not seen what Ben did wrong.

I really think, yes this is just my opinion, that we should sit back and wait to hear the facts of the case, before we decide to execute our QB.



I have been listening to Stan Savran and John Clayton on ESPN1250 in Pittsburgh. They both have reported that the Ronneys are upset with this situation.

Heart4Steelers
03-10-2010, 11:47 PM
Yep thats true. But all the facts have to come out. Do I fully expect charges to be filed against Ben? You damn well bet. Hell i'm pretty much resigned to KNOWING charges are coming.

One thing i'd like to mention is that, as we ALL know, we Steelers fans are a VERY proud and attached fanbase. I've searched around a bit and seen some startling responses from fellow Steelers fans. No need to post tem as i don't want to incriminate anyone whether I like them or not. But my point is that this particular incedent has shaken this very proud fanbase to it's core.

And like it or not, it's divided us. I never thought in a million years that ANYTHING would EVER divide SteelerNation. But not a doubt in my mind, this has. Or more directly Ben has.

I have never seen my beloved Steelers fanbase this frustrated, aggrivated, and any other bad emotion ya can think of. And it bothers me. Deeply troubles me. I had always believed we were and are one of the MOST proud and unified fanbases in all of sports.

This incedent has shaken this strong fanbase to it's very core. One of the saddest day's ever for me seeing that.

Either that or as others suggest, I have a flair for the soap opera dramatics. You decide. :wink02:

SteelerNation will get through this. I have just been trying to process this whole thing, make sense of this madness, so to speak.

Most fans are venting their opinions. I think when this is all said and done, Steeler Nation will be stronger than ever. The common denominator is we all care about our team.

steelreserve
03-10-2010, 11:49 PM
OK gang, here's what I don't get. So now it's circulating that all Ben did was gently insert his one eyed pony into her saliva drenched skull cave, and then when she was finished taking in her daily protein, she fell an hit her head? What? Was Big Ben's skin blunt that intoxicating that it caused her to develop a sudden case of vertigo?

What probably happened is she got pissed off because he promised not to blow a load in her mouth and then went ahead and did it anyway. A move that I would normally applaud, but pretty piss-poor judgment if you're walking around with a gigantic goddamn target on your back.

OneForTheToe
03-10-2010, 11:57 PM
Ben's lawyer won't let him give a DNA sample unless it's subpoenaed. That's what any lawyer would tell him to do. and this isn't just any lawyer. He knows what he's doing. They have to have probable cause to subpoena DNA. Let's hope it stays that way.

What she said. People like to bemoan lawyers when they do this sort of thing, but it is exactly what a good lawyer should do.

tony hipchest
03-10-2010, 11:59 PM
I have been listening to Stan Savran and John Clayton on ESPN1250 in Pittsburgh. They both have reported that the Ronneys are upset with this situation.while this is most likely 100% true, we are not allowed to believe it until we hear it from the rooneys themselves.

savran and clayton are media hacks just like wexell and bouchette. :rolleyes:

OX1947
03-11-2010, 12:02 AM
while this is most likely 100% true, we are not allowed to believe it until we hear it from the rooneys themselves.

savran and clayton are media hacks just like wexell and bouchette. :rolleyes:

Come on, Clayton isn't a hack. The guy is a hall of famer and is extremely reliable. And also, Ronney's being bothered by this isn't a Revelation. I am sure any steeler fan could have figured that one out without needed someone to tell them.

tony hipchest
03-11-2010, 12:04 AM
Come on, Clayton isn't a hack. The guy is a hall of famer and is extremely reliable. And also, Ronney's being bothered by this isn't a Revelation. I am sure any steeler fan could have figured that one out without needed someone to tell them.

its called sarcasm.



What probably happened is she got pissed off because he promised not to blow a load in her mouth and then went ahead and did it anyway. A move that I would normally applaud, but pretty piss-poor judgment if you're walking around with a gigantic goddamn target on your back.

true dat.

tony hipchest
03-11-2010, 12:27 AM
I haven't as of yet heard anything about the Rooney's being furious, and I would be surprise if they said that even if they were.

.of course they wont, just like they didnt when they were displeased with arians playcalling. thats not how they operate.

however, i am not holding my breath for art II to hold a presser just to say they are pleased with things ben has done and accomplished over the past 6 years.

personally, i dont think ben has done anything wrong either (other than getting a blowie from a groupie). that doesnt mean his boss or teammates are overjoyed with the situation.

as for us fans, the only thing ben owes us is entertainment and wins on sundays. :thumbsup:

as long as him legally scoring some 'tang on the side doesnt interfere with that, i am fine.

Pittsky
03-11-2010, 01:26 AM
whether any of this actually happened or not we will never know...the damage on the other hand i think we've already seen...and we're gunna see more of it....this seriously blows...he needs to grow the F up..

it's no coincidence this has happened to him twice now...i'm not saying he did anything...but he hasn't done anything to prevent stupid shit like this from happening....that's what has me pissed...by putting himself in these situations he is disrespecting his fans, franchise, and all the alumni before him...this is not the character of a leader...just my .2 cents/vent sorry for rambling...im sure people have said this a million times already

TheRuneMeister
03-11-2010, 04:01 AM
Whats this about 2 police officers being in Ben's entourage? Sounds like he was seriously trying to keep out of trouble. Did a piss-poor job of it though, but seems like he tried.

WH
03-11-2010, 04:36 AM
One of the cops, Anthony Barravecchio, eats at Anthony Jr's all the time. Good cop.

stillers4me
03-11-2010, 05:23 AM
Officers were with Roethlisberger
Trooper, cop who went to Georgia are friends of quarterback

Thursday, March 11, 2010
By Jonathan D. Silver, Pittsburgh Post-Gazette

When Ben Roethlisberger went bar-hopping in Georgia on the night he allegedly sexually assaulted a local college student, a pair of lawmen from Western Pennsylvania were on vacation with him.

Coraopolis police Officer Anthony J. Barravecchio and Pennsylvania State Police Trooper Ed Joyner of the Washington barracks formed part of an entourage of Mr. Roethlisberger's close friends who were helping the Steelers quarterback celebrate his 28th birthday, which was March 2.

Neither officer has been contacted by Georgia authorities as part of the ongoing investigation into the assault accusation, Officer Barravecchio's lawyer, Michael F. Santicola, said Wednesday.

"They haven't given any statements, and they haven't been asked to," Mr. Santicola said.

Mr. Santicola described himself as friends with Trooper Joyner and said that he received a phone call from the trooper about the situation.

Mr. Santicola said he has not spoken to Trooper Joyner, however.

Although the officers have worked for Mr. Roethlisberger in the past, this time they were off duty and doing nothing more than palling around with their longtime friend, according to Mr. Santicola.

"Both of these guys are friends with Ben," Mr. Santicola said. "They went down together. They were completely sober the night of this occurrence. They're cooperating completely with whatever investigation is ongoing."

The officers were not in uniform, not providing security and not being paid, Mr. Santicola said.

Also present were Steelers tackle Willie Colon and several other friends whose identities Mr. Santicola did not know.

Both Officer Barravecchio and Trooper Joyner were inside the Capital City club in Milledgeville, the night spot where Mr. Roethlisberger is accused of sexually assaulting a 20-year-old student at Georgia College & State University late March 4 or early March 5.

Mr. Roethlisberger's legal team has denied the accusations.

"They were there, yes," Mr. Santicola said. "I don't believe these guys could pick her out of a lineup."

Milledgeville police and the Georgia Bureau of Investigation are seeking a DNA sample from Mr. Roethlisberger and have collected evidence from the nightclub. Part of the suspected crime scene is a women's rest room in the area where Mr. Roethlisberger and his friends were socializing.

Mr. Santicola said he could not discuss Officer Barravecchio's version of the evening's events because he had not conferred with Mr. Roethlisberger's lawyers.

He said, however, that he does not believe his client saw the quarterback going into the ladies' room.

"There's limited knowledge there. These guys were not in the same place at every moment in time," Mr. Santicola said.

Investigators have said that the alleged victim's party approached a Milledgeville police officer after leaving Capital City.

The officer spoke briefly with the woman and Mr. Roethlisberger, who was allowed to leave. Then the woman went to a hospital, where evidence was collected.

Mr. Santicola said the Milledgeville officer did not request identification from Officer Barravecchio or Trooper Joyner and did not take down their names or other information.

"There might have been some conversation [with the Milledgeville officer], but very little. There might have been a 'what's going on' kind of a thing. It wasn't directed at these guys."

Officer Joyner asked his bosses in April 2005 for permission to work for Mr. Roethlisberger as a driver and assistant.

"According to Trooper Joyner's request, his prospective duties involved assisting Roethlisberger during public appearances before and after Pittsburgh Steelers home games, as well as during autograph sessions and charity events.

"The trooper's prospective duties also involved answering fan mail and phone calls. With this understanding, the department authorized Trooper Joyner to engage in this supplemental employment. The authorization is current," state police Lt. Myra Taylor said in an e-mail.

Lt. Taylor did not answer questions about whether Trooper Joyner had followed proper protocols to notify state police of the incident. She said the state police had not been contacted by Georgia authorities.

Coraopolis police Chief Alan DeRusso did not return several messages seeking comment about Officer Barravecchio.

But borough council President Robert Barone said, "He was down there and my question was 'Was he on vacation or not?' And the chief said, 'Yes, he was on vacation.' "

Mr. Colon's agent, Joe Linta, said: "Willie has no knowledge of any incident, alleged or otherwise."

Mr. Santicola said he believes the officers became friendly with Mr. Roethlisberger while they were providing security at various charity golf events the quarterback has attended over the years.

It is not unusual for police officers to moonlight for sports teams. Some departments are more rigorous than others in terms of approving and monitoring such secondary employment.

The state police note that troopers are expected to uphold a high standard even while working off duty.

"Members of the Pennsylvania State Police are required, at all times, to comply with all laws, rules and regulations. They are also required to engage in behavior and deportment, both on and off duty, that reflect our core values of duty, service and respect," Lt. Taylor wrote in her e-mail.

"Naturally, these standards apply to members who are authorized under department regulations to engage in supplemental employment while off-duty."

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/10070/1041906-53.stm
------------------------------------------------------

Rather interesting that 2 upstanding citizens have not been interviewed about what they may or may not have seen that night. Having been friends with police officers, I know that even when they off duty, their eyes are always open. My stepdad is is 72 and a retired detective. Nothing gets past him.

I guess dragging the accused name through the mud for as long as possible is good lawyering.

stillers4me
03-11-2010, 05:40 AM
Attorney: 2 local officers were with Roethlisberger
By Jill King Greenwood, PITTSBURGH TRIBUNE-REVIEW
Thursday, March 11, 2010


Two Pittsburgh-area police officers were celebrating Steelers quarterback Ben Roethlisberger's 28th birthday with him last week in Georgia when a woman there accused the two-time Super Bowl champion of sexual assault, an attorney said Wednesday.

Coraopolis Officer Anthony Barravecchio and state police Trooper Ed Joyner accompanied Roethlisberger and others to a series of bars in Milledgeville, Ga., the college town close to where Roethlisberger owns a home, said Beaver County attorney Michael Santicola.

"They are all friends, and they were together to celebrate," said Santicola, who is representing Barravecchio and described himself as Joyner's friend. "They saw absolutely nothing that would indicate any crime was committed that weekend. They are a little bit shocked that this is even happening because they saw nothing criminal."

Police in Georgia are investigating the accusations leveled by the 20-year-old student at Georgia College & State University. They have not charged anyone.

Authorities said this week they wanted to again interview Roethlisberger and about eight members of his entourage from the night of March 4.

Santicola said Joyner called him and left a message regarding the incident, but the two have not yet spoken. He said Georgia authorities have not contacted or questioned Barravecchio or Joyner.

"They will cooperate to the fullest extent," Santicola said.

A woman who answered the phone at Barravecchio's Coraopolis home said he had no comment. Joyner could not be reached.

Coraopolis police Chief Alan DeRusso said Barravecchio was on vacation last week and returned to work Monday. He said the officer discussed the eventful trip with him, but the chief would not disclose what he had said.

Santicola said Barravecchio, a former defensive tackle for the now-defunct Pittsburgh Power semi-pro football team, was the designated driver the evening of the incident and was "completely sober." (Gasp! Ben made a good decision!)

Joyner works out of the Washington County state police station. Lt. Myra Taylor, a spokesman for the department in Harrisburg, said Joyner submitted a request in April 2005 for supplemental employment, indicating he would act as a driver and assistant to Roethlisberger at home games, autograph sessions and charity events, as well as field fan mail and phone calls.

Taylor said Georgia authorities have not contacted state police regarding the incident, and she didn't know whether Joyner was questioned. She declined to answer any other questions regarding Joyner or his involvement with Roethlisberger.

Santicola and DeRusso said Barravecchio doesn't work for the quarterback. Roethlisberger has been to the Coraopolis police station and invited people to his Georgia home before, DeRusso said.

He said his department has not been contacted by authorities in Georgia.

Coraopolis Councilman Anthony Celeste said Barravecchio and the quarterback are "good friends" and have been to Celeste's Anthony Jr.'s Pizzeria in Coraopolis "many times."

Roethlisberger makes frequent appearances at law enforcement events and fundraisers. He has been seen wearing memorial T-shirts for slain officers and a state police cap during television interviews.

The Ben Roethlisberger Foundation awards grants to police and fire departments and earlier this month donated more than $4,000 to Castle Shannon police to purchase a K-9 dog.

http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/sports/steelers/s_671085.html

mesaSteeler
03-11-2010, 05:45 AM
Roethlisberger's hometown looks for facts
http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/sports/steelers/s_671050.html#
By Scott Brown
PITTSBURGH TRIBUNE-REVIEW
Thursday, March 11, 2010

FINDLAY, Ohio ó A tree-lined street leads into the city that is tucked in the northwest corner of the state. It yields no clues that this is the childhood home of a quarterback who won a pair of Super Bowls before his 27th birthday.

The one place in the veritable portrait of middle class America that qualifies as a public shrine to Ben Roethlisberger is Tony's Restaurant & Pub. On a wall leading into the popular eatery that sells the "Big Ben Burger" is a framed Steelers jersey signed by Roethlisberger. Also hanging from the wall is a collage of pictures, several of which were taken in 2004 ó before Roethlisberger set an NFL record by winning his first 13 starts.

Roethlisberger sports closely cropped hair and a lean physique in those photos. The clean-cut, All-American look is at odds with the image that has emerged following the second sexual assault accusation brought against Roethlisberger in the past nine months.

"What he's really guilty of is making some bad decisions," said Tony Iriti, who coached Roethlisberger in football and baseball growing up and now lives in Roethlisberger's old house. "It's really tough because I know Ben. To hear these kinds of accusations ..."

The latest one came last week following a night of bar-hopping in a Georgia college town, not far from where Roethlisberger owns an offseason home. The investigation could lead to criminal charges and comes while a civil suit filed last July against Roethlisberger in Nevada is still pending.

What hasn't taken place in Findlay ó Roethlisberger moved here with his parents while still in grade school and became a three-sport star ó is a rush to judgment, Iriti said.

The town's muted response may best be reflected in The Courier, Findlay's newspaper. A day after law enforcement officials in Milledgeville, Ga., announced they would continue to investigate the alleged incident, The Courier ran the story on the front page ó of its sports section.

Wednesday, the newspaper didn't carry any new developments in the Roethlisberger story.

"Here, people don't talk about it," said Iriti, who served one term as Findlay's mayor starting in 2004. "People here have very strong faith. Wait until all of the facts come out."

That is not to say the subject has been taboo here.

Dick Hipsher, a lifelong Findlay resident, said he and his morning coffee friends have talked about Roethlisberger's situation. The sentiment among the group is not much different than in Pittsburgh ó most at least agree that Roethlisberger has too much to lose to put himself in situations that can cost him everything.

"I said: 'You know when you see this happen, I consider it a lack of intelligence,' " said Hipsher, a retired purchaser.

Ask people who know Roethlisberger here, and they'll tell you he is an unrelenting competitor. They'll also talk about how Roethlisberger and his sister, Carlee, were raised right by their parents Ken and Brenda. Ken played college football at Georgia Tech but was the antithesis of the Little League parent.

He often watched Ben's baseball games from the outfield, friends say, so he could stay in the background.

There also are stories, just as in Pittsburgh, about two sides of Roethlisberger.

In November, Roethlisberger donated signed items for a fundraiser held for a Findlay man who has since died of pancreatic cancer. Roethlisberger also stages an annual celebrity basketball game at Findlay High School ó there doesn't seem to be a lot of optimism that it will happen this year ó with proceeds going to the athletic department.

Roethlisberger's foundation is a part of an initiative to build a complex with four practice fields and a locker room for Findlay's youth football program.

"He's a good kid," Iriti said.

Iriti is still close friends with the Roethlisbergers; his son and Ben Roethlisberger went to Miami (Ohio) on football scholarships.

Findlay, which carries itself with a small-town sensibility and actually has a restaurant named "Mom and Pop's," doesn't offer much refuse from the fame that trails Roethlisberger as closely as his shadow.

When Roethlisberger is back in Findlay and he goes to Buffalo Wild Wings restaurant, assistant manager Tim Bethel said the place fills up as soon as word spreads that he is there. The same is true of Tony's, which sells the hamburgers named in Roethlisberger's honor and consist of two large meat patties, lettuce, tomatoes and the house barbecue sauce. Cheese comes with the burger for an extra seven cents.

Connie Tagliapietra, an assistant manager at Tony's, said Roethlisberger is good about signing for fans when he's at the restaurant.

Tagliapietra's brother in law, Tom Brown, owns Tony's. The restaurant has catered private parties Roethlisberger has hosted in Pittsburgh.

"I really like him," said Tagliapietra, who has known Roethlisberger since he was in high school.

Tagliapietra said she tunes out any talk she hears about Roethlisberger's latest troubles. Bethel hopes that Roethlisberger learns from them.

"When you are in his situation, there's a time to go home," said Bethel, adding that Roethlisberger has never been a problem when he has visited Buffalo Wild Wings. "When you're famous, you've just go to know when to call it quits. Maybe he needs to grow up a little bit and deal with his fame in other ways."

Scott Brown can be reached at sbrown@tribweb.com or 412-481-5432.

zulater
03-11-2010, 06:09 AM
Oh for God's sake - come down off your almighty high horse already. I'm sick and damned tired of your condescending and self-righteous attitude around here. This is a board of opinions and your opinions hold no more or less credibility than anyone else's, contrary to your belief.

Pot, kettle line one. Take a good look in the mirror.

You came out on your post basically blasting away at any who dare have the audacity to express major doubts about our qb, and made it known you plan to take names and say nah nah nah to them the first time said qb has a herioc Sunday.

I think that anything said about the qb , right, wrong, speculative, whatever, is well deserverved no matter what the eventual outcome of these charges prove to be.In other words he brought it on himself.


You tell me how many of these finger pointers haven't done some of the same things Ben has done - on the job and off - but have the audacity to point their hypocritical fingers, try and convict the man before any evidence has been formally presented.

I've done a lot of things I'm not particuarly proud of, but never once have I been accused of criminal conduct by anyone for anything. I'm guessing that's true for most of the "finger pointers" here. Now obviously Ben's a bigger target than any of us, but go through the NFL, hell all sports the past 20 years, how many high profile players have been twice accused of sexual assualt? We're all hoping Ben's just been unlucky, but damn if I don't have doubts, and I don't see how anyone cannot?



Do you have first hand knowledge of the Rooneys feelings on this matter? Gee - since you are so tight with the Rooneys, maybe you can score some tix for us who aren't in the know around here.

:yawn: :coffee:

Oh I know, all writers lie when it comes to behind the scene reporting, because obviously the Rooney's always tell the Steeler fans exactly what they're thinking. I'm sure any moment they'll finally have a formal press conference telling the world they beleive in their qb, and are fully supportive of his off field choices and lifestyle.

zulater
03-11-2010, 06:30 AM
while this is most likely 100% true, we are not allowed to believe it until we hear it from the rooneys themselves.

savran and clayton are media hacks just like wexell and bouchette. :rolleyes:

:applaudit:

urgle burgle
03-11-2010, 06:34 AM
Just for the hell of it i checked out the other Steelers board i used to frequent tonight. There are Steelers fans there that will NEVER root for him again. And one is the board owner....

I haven't even bothered to re-register there since they changed some things months ago.

lemmee guess. steelernation right....

urgle burgle
03-11-2010, 06:40 AM
now i wont say or will say what i have done in my past....

but is Ben really this dumb. however this goes...at age 28, he needs to rethink his stategy. at the very least, it sounds like they went somewhere for a little tryst, as some have said, and something went haywire. whether she felt stupid after she did slip and bang her head...he did something towards her...whatever. reminds me of when i was in Korea....my last month there, i, and a few friends laid low until gone. they alwasys said that first month there and last month, is when shit goes bad. we cooped up in the barracks and didnt step out until we left country. to many risks.....

with all that money, fame, etc. at age 28, you can set yourself up better than that.....
anyway....

my take counts as much as anyone elses, i suppose....diddly squat....but im not particularly happy in regards to what is unfolding.

Texasteel
03-11-2010, 07:15 AM
while this is most likely 100% true, we are not allowed to believe it until we hear it from the rooneys themselves.

savran and clayton are media hacks just like wexell and bouchette. :rolleyes:


We can believe what ever we want. That means both you, and myself. Some here are stating everything they have heard as pure fact, and that is just not right. I'm sure the Rooney's are not happy with the situation, neither is Ben. They may be upset with Ben over the situation, that would be natural. That does not mean Ben did anything wrong. I know this is one thing we both agree on.

X-Terminator
03-11-2010, 07:46 AM
Pot, kettle line one. Take a good look in the mirror.

You came out on your post basically blasting away at any who dare have the audacity to express major doubts about our qb, and made it known you plan to take names and say nah nah nah to them the first time said qb has a herioc Sunday.

I think that anything said about the qb , right, wrong, speculative, whatever, is well deserverved no matter what the eventual outcome of these charges prove to be.In other words he brought it on himself.

No, she came out and blasted those who have pretty much convicted, sentenced, executed and replaced Ben when there has not been ONE IOTA of evidence presented against him, nor has he been charged with any crime. Not one. None. Nada. Zilch. Zippo. And no, a few statements from either party does not constitute "evidence." And yes, IF it turns out that he did nothing wrong, other than be in the wrong place at the wrong time, then yeah, those people who have done so will end up with egg on their faces. The only thing that people should be doing right now is withholding judgment until the facts are presented. Is that really too much to ask for? Well, in the court of public opinion, I suppose it is. And she is absolutely spot-on about how the fans will be quick to jump right back onto Ben's bandwagon if it turns out he did nothing wrong. All of this "I'll never root for him again" BS is just that - BS. As soon as he would throw his first TD pass or lead the team to a late-game win, you'll have to get the jaws of life to pry their lips off his ass. You know it, I know it, HTG knows it and everyone else here knows it.

It's funny, I've said the same thing on this matter that HTG has, yet I haven't been blasted for it the way she has been. Hmmm, I wonder why that is?

I've done a lot of things I'm not particuarly proud of, but never once have I been accused of criminal conduct by anyone for anything. I'm guessing that's true for most of the "finger pointers" here. Now obviously Ben's a bigger target than any of us, but go through the NFL, hell all sports the past 20 years, how many high profile players have been twice accused of sexual assualt? We're all hoping Ben's just been unlucky, but damn if I don't have doubts, and I don't see how anyone cannot?

Since you admit that Ben is a bigger target than who he is, couldn't that possibly factor into this case at all, that someone wouldn't try to take full advantage of that? Apparently not, since so many of you have pronounced him guilty as charged. It's OK to have doubts and to question his judgment, but for crying out loud, let the process play itself out first! According to the law, Ben is innocent until proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. The "finger pointers" should try keeping that in mind before they comment.

Oh I know, all writers lie when it comes to behind the scene reporting, because obviously the Rooney's always tell the Steeler fans exactly what they're thinking. I'm sure any moment they'll finally have a formal press conference telling the world they beleive in their qb, and are fully supportive of his off field choices and lifestyle.

Yeah, I'm quite sure the Rooneys are not pleased about this whole situation. I don't need a reporter to tell me that, and I'm sure they don't either. Like it or not, journalists are not Gods. They do not and cannot know everything that goes on behind the scenes in any walk of life, and I, for one, am not going to hang on their every word like some people do.

Fire Haley
03-11-2010, 08:13 AM
And the cops and Willie Colon are one the same page "I see nothing"

Attorney: Pa. officers with Roethlisberger at club


PITTSBURGH (AP) — Two off-duty Pennsylvania law enforcement officers were with Pittsburgh Steelers quarterback Ben Roethlisberger at the Georgia nightclub where a woman accused him of sexual assault, and the two men didn't see anything inappropriate, an attorney for one of them said Wednesday.

Santicola, who's based in western Pennsylvania, said both of the law enforcement officers who were with Roethlisberger are cooperating fully with the investigation, but say they saw nothing inappropriate.

"They saw nothing inappropriate, no criminal activity and no inappropriate contact or behavior," Santicola said, adding that Barravecchio was "completely sober" during the evening.

Santicola also said the two do not remember meeting the woman who has accused Roethlisberger of assault.

"If they did meet the woman, they have no memory of it," Santicola said. "This was a crowded bar with people everywhere."

Prok
03-11-2010, 08:17 AM
No, she came out and blasted those who have pretty much convicted, sentenced, executed and replaced Ben when there has not been ONE IOTA of evidence presented against him, nor has he been charged with any crime. Not one. None. Nada. Zilch. Zippo. And no, a few statements from either party does not constitute "evidence." And yes, IF it turns out that he did nothing wrong, other than be in the wrong place at the wrong time, then yeah, those people who have done so will end up with egg on their faces. The only thing that people should be doing right now is withholding judgment until the facts are presented. Is that really too much to ask for? Well, in the court of public opinion, I suppose it is. And she is absolutely spot-on about how the fans will be quick to jump right back onto Ben's bandwagon if it turns out he did nothing wrong. All of this "I'll never root for him again" BS is just that - BS. As soon as he would throw his first TD pass or lead the team to a late-game win, you'll have to get the jaws of life to pry their lips off his ass. You know it, I know it, HTG knows it and everyone else here knows it.

It's funny, I've said the same thing on this matter that HTG has, yet I haven't been blasted for it the way she has been. Hmmm, I wonder why that is?



Since you admit that Ben is a bigger target than who he is, couldn't that possibly factor into this case at all, that someone wouldn't try to take full advantage of that? Apparently not, since so many of you have pronounced him guilty as charged. It's OK to have doubts and to question his judgment, but for crying out loud, let the process play itself out first! According to the law, Ben is innocent until proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. The "finger pointers" should try keeping that in mind before they comment.



Yeah, I'm quite sure the Rooneys are not pleased about this whole situation. I don't need a reporter to tell me that, and I'm sure they don't either. Like it or not, journalists are not Gods. They do not and cannot know everything that goes on behind the scenes in any walk of life, and I, for one, am not going to hang on their every word like some people do.

That is a damn good post.

Texasteel
03-11-2010, 08:30 AM
It's funny, I've said the same thing on this matter that HTG has, yet I haven't been blasted for it the way she has been. Hmmm, I wonder why that is?



I have noticed that as well XT. I'm starting wonder if this is vendetta against Ben, or HTG.

vrabinec
03-11-2010, 08:36 AM
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=4984207

She just happen to hit her head after they tussled in the bathroom? Ben, Ben, Ben, WTF? DD better be over at the complex getting ready.

Prok
03-11-2010, 08:52 AM
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=4984207

She just happen to hit her head after they tussled in the bathroom? Ben, Ben, Ben, WTF? DD better be over at the complex getting ready.


I think we can all agree there prolly won't be a good ending to this situation.

But there is a whole lot of information yet to be released.

X-Terminator
03-11-2010, 09:22 AM
I think we can all agree there prolly won't be a good ending to this situation.

But there is a whole lot of information yet to be released.

Of course, but according to the previous post, Ben is guilty, guilty, guilty!!!! This is exactly the kind of sentiment I and HTG mentioned in our posts. The man hasn't even had time to fully explain his version of events, but he's 100% gone next season and it's time to turn to Dennis Dixon. Unreal!

Steel_12
03-11-2010, 09:23 AM
IF she was injured to the point that she needed medical attention, why didn't Ben take her to the hospital?

I can't reconcile the fact that she described Ben as 6'5" and 241 lbs, the exact measurements posted on the team page.

Are you serious? She's not his responsibility plus it would've looked worse if he took her to the hospital.

pete74
03-11-2010, 09:36 AM
Are you serious? She's not his responsibility plus it would've looked worse if he took her to the hospital.

i dont know the entire story nor do i know if she was seriously injured or had a little bump but if it was serious i think it would look much worse to leave someone injured then to take them to the hospital whuch any good hearted human would do. if i was with a stranger i never met in my life and they were injured i would do whatever i can to help them

pete74
03-11-2010, 09:37 AM
I think we can all agree there prolly won't be a good ending to this situation.

But there is a whole lot of information yet to be released.

i for one think he will never be found guilty. i think he was wrong for doing what he did and would go as far as to call his actions immature and stupied but i dont think he will be found guilty

Prok
03-11-2010, 09:46 AM
Of course, but according to the previous post, Ben is guilty, guilty, guilty!!!! This is exactly the kind of sentiment I and HTG mentioned in our posts. The man hasn't even had time to fully explain his version of events, but he's 100% gone next season and it's time to turn to Dennis Dixon. Unreal!

I get where you're coming from. And hell I've been been back and forth so many times on this issue myself. I even think everything points to Ben being guilty of SOMETHING. It all depends to what extent he is guilty though.

When these charges go down you can damn well bet a ton of our fanbase will lose it. Hell they've already lost it. Public opinion has ruined Ben's reputation from here on imo.

I've got nothing but respect for you and HTG's stance.

Bet ya dollars to doughnuts that once stories come out that paint negative light on the accuser many of the people that turned on Ben will do their best to explain every last one of them away. That's why I say I KNOW charges are coming. Public opinion has already dictated that to a degree imo.

vrabinec
03-11-2010, 09:48 AM
Of course, but according to the previous post, Ben is guilty, guilty, guilty!!!! This is exactly the kind of sentiment I and HTG mentioned in our posts. The man hasn't even had time to fully explain his version of events, but he's 100% gone next season and it's time to turn to Dennis Dixon. Unreal!

You're right, we sould take him at his word that they had something consentual going on, cut it short, and she just happen to slip and fall and hit her head, then ran out in hysterics and accused him to take advantage of the fact that she slipped and fell. Sounds plausible to me. Look, I'm not condemning him, but this looks bad. If you think it looks as if it's fine, then IMO you're in denial.

Prok
03-11-2010, 09:48 AM
i for one think he will never be found guilty. i think he was wrong for doing what he did and would go as far as to call his actions immature and stupied but i dont think he will be found guilty

i could agree with ya there Pete. And i sincerely hope you are right.

Steel_12
03-11-2010, 09:52 AM
i dont know the entire story but i think it would look much worse to leave someone injured then to take them to the hospital whuch any good hearted human would do. if i was with a stranger i never met in my life and they were injured i would do whatever i can to help them

Thing is, he's a celebrity. Either way it went, it was going to look bad. If he would've taken her to the hospital, the media still would've found out and she still could've cried assault. IMO it could've seemed like he was just taking her so she wouldn't say anything.

Prok
03-11-2010, 09:53 AM
As for Ben not taking the girl to the hospital, c'monnnnnnnnnn. If i read everything right didn't she walk out of the bar BEFORE he did? Under her own power? Wasn't he and his party confronted by the police as he was exiting the club ??

He HAD to have been under the impression she was OK. C'mon, he's not a monster.

pete74
03-11-2010, 09:54 AM
even if charges are filed he has a very very slim chance of being found guilty. his legal team is one of the best in the country and there is no way in hell there going to let that judge or jury enter a guilty verdict. worst case scenerio they will downgrade the charges to a misdermeanor but i dont even see that happening. if this thing does go to trial, which i have doubts it ever will, he will come out of it without a guilty verdict. obviously this is nothing but one mans opinion but i would bet anything on it. im thinking that ben's attornys will try to settle if there is enough evidence to go to trial and unless the girl's family is wealthy, odds are she will take the money and run

HAWK
03-11-2010, 09:54 AM
Why can't Ben just take these women home like the rest of us? It looks a heck of a lot better when she's willingly naked in your bed. Not to mention leaving in the morning.

pete74
03-11-2010, 09:57 AM
who really knows the extent on the injury. if she had a little bump on her head then that is all together different but if she had a huge gash on her head then yes he should of taken her. only time will tell the extent of the injury

vrabinec
03-11-2010, 09:58 AM
even if charges are filed he has a very very slim chance of being found guilty. his legal team is one of the best in the country and there is no way in hell there going to let that judge or jury enter a guilty verdict. worst case scenerio they will downgrade the charges to a misdermeanor but i dont even see that happening. if this thing does go to trial, which i have doubts it ever will, he will come out of it without a guilty verdict. obviously this is nothing but one mans opinion but i would bet anything on it. im thinking that ben's attornys will try to settle if there is enough evidence to go to trial and unless the girl's family is wealthy, odds are she will take the money and run

It would be interesting to see what they have on the tapes. If they show her nibbling on his ear, and then pulling him into the bathroom, that's gonna make all this look a lot better for him. But if they're just at the table, then she gets up and goes to the toilet, and he follows her a few moments later, that looks worse for him. Also, the film of how they left the bathroom will be telling. If they leave there all smiles, then it looks much better for him, but if they come out and he looks like he's all apologetic and she looks pissed and/or crying, it looks much worse for him.

Vincent
03-11-2010, 10:00 AM
And if it comes out that BB did nothing wrong? (hopefully...) Then what?

Regardless of the outcome, Ben "did something wrong". I don't care what "society" deems is appropriate behavior in these "modern times", this sordid series of events is disgusting on any level.

Ben is the face of the Pittsburgh Steelers, and by extension, Pittsburgh. His onfield performance elevated him to that station, and he has been handsomely compensated by our NFL franchise to lead the team on the field, and represent our team as its franchise QB off the field. He has failed miserably in the latter. Early on, we "chalked it up" to his youth. He hasn't grown out of it and has indeed gotten worse. By some accounts he now hangs by a thread with the Rooneys, and deservedly so.

Ben bears all the responsibility for this idiocy, regardless of the outcome because he chose to put himself in circumstances unbecoming of the face of the Pittsburgh Steelers. No excuse. No place to hide. Flat out failure to lead. His behavior spits in the face of the other 52 gentlemen that do tow their line for the team.

He may escape conviction and return to the field. I will root for the Pittsburgh Steelers regardless of who lines up under center. And Ben could suddenly awaken to the reality he is very blessed, bears responsibility to return on his blessings, and actually become the face of the Pittsburgh Steelers we all want him to be, at which point, I will again root for him.

As was said in another post - WWDBD? Ben, if the clues elude you, just ask yourself "What would Drew Brees do?".

HAWK
03-11-2010, 10:08 AM
Regardless of the outcome, Ben "did something wrong". I don't care what "society" deems is appropriate behavior in these "modern times", this sordid series of events is disgusting on any level.

Ben is the face of the Pittsburgh Steelers, and by extension, Pittsburgh. His onfield performance elevated him to that station, and he has been handsomely compensated by our NFL franchise to lead the team on the field, and represent our team as its franchise QB off the field. He has failed miserably in the latter. Early on, we "chalked it up" to his youth. He hasn't grown out of it and has indeed gotten worse. By some accounts he now hangs by a thread with the Rooneys, and deservedly so.

Ben bears all the responsibility for this idiocy, regardless of the outcome because he chose to put himself in circumstances unbecoming of the face of the Pittsburgh Steelers. No excuse. No place to hide. Flat out failure to lead. His behavior spits in the face of the other 52 gentlemen that do tow their line for the team.

He may escape conviction and return to the field. I will root for the Pittsburgh Steelers regardless of who lines up under center. And Ben could suddenly awaken to the reality he is very blessed, bears responsibility to return on his blessings, and actually become the face of the Pittsburgh Steelers we all want him to be, at which point, I will again root for him.

As was said in another post - WWDBD? Ben, if the clues elude you, just ask yourself "What would Drew Brees do?".

I totally agree. I was referring to the charge of rape or assault.

I also agree there should be a different standard.

But at the same time, so many that will scorn BB are partiers, bar-hoppers, and what not. Consensual sex of this kind happens all over America in bars and night clubs. Barring a crime, I just think everyone should dial down the hypocrisy.

zulater
03-11-2010, 10:12 AM
No, she came out and blasted those who have pretty much convicted, sentenced, executed and replaced Ben when there has not been ONE IOTA of evidence presented against him, nor has he been charged with any crime. Not one. None. Nada. Zilch. Zippo.

He's been accused by two seperate people of some form of sexual assualt. I realize that's not the same as being charged. But accusations are out there.



And no, a few statements from either party does not constitute "evidence." And yes, IF it turns out that he did nothing wrong, other than be in the wrong place at the wrong time, then yeah, those people who have done so will end up with egg on their faces.

No they wont.He put himslef in the hotbox, "they" or us didn't.


The only thing that people should be doing right now is withholding judgment until the facts are presented. Is that really too much to ask for?

Yeah it is. It's a free country, the Steelers are my team, this greatly concerns me. I plan on talking about the story while it develops, as it develops. You're welcome to refrain from the discusion if you like. Just don't tell me how to think or post.


Well, in the court of public opinion, I suppose it is. And she is absolutely spot-on about how the fans will be quick to jump right back onto Ben's bandwagon if it turns out he did nothing wrong.

Why shouldn't they? If he's the qb of the team they love and is doing the job they want and expect, yay Ben!

Right now the biggest concern of most of us is that he's done something or put himself in a situation where the perception or the reality of him will bear consequences that will interfere with his ability to do that job.

All of this "I'll never root for him again" BS is just that - BS. As soon as he would throw his first TD pass or lead the team to a late-game win, you'll have to get the jaws of life to pry their lips off his ass.

Some maybe, others maybe not? :noidea: I can only speak for myself on this one. For me, Ben has my full and total support the day he clears himself to the satisfaction of the law, the league, and the Rooney's.


You know it, I know it, HTG knows it and everyone else here knows it.

It's funny, I've said the same thing on this matter that HTG has, yet I haven't been blasted for it the way she has been. Hmmm, I wonder why that is?

Because her and I have a posting history going back 4 or 5 years, mostly very positive, that you and I don't share. I consider her as close to a friend as you can possibly be with a person that you've never actually met. .(even though she may not agree at this moment :chuckle:),



Since you admit that Ben is a bigger target than who he is, couldn't that possibly factor into this case at all, that someone wouldn't try to take full advantage of that?

I stated as much didn't I? But there's also literally thousands of high profile athletes throughout this country that seem to have no problem whatsoever not drawing negative attention to themselves.



Apparently not, since so many of you have pronounced him guilty as charged.

Not me, not for anything more than bad judgement.


It's OK to have doubts and to question his judgment, but for crying out loud, let the process play itself out first! According to the law, Ben is innocent until proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt.

I'm quite aware of that. But I also think he'll need to do more than that to remain a viable qb in the NFL. A hung jury acquittal wouldn't do it here, if Ben were to be tried on felony sexual assualt. Wouldn't you agree?


The "finger pointers" should try keeping that in mind before they comment.

Ben needs to hold himself to a higher standard of personal conduct and then the finger pointers will stop pointing fingers. Taking a stranger into the restroom for a quickie (or anything else) isn't good judgement. Ben's actions should be more of a concern to us than so called finger pointers.


Yeah, I'm quite sure the Rooneys are not pleased about this whole situation. I don't need a reporter to tell me that, and I'm sure they don't either. Like it or not, journalists are not Gods. They do not and cannot know everything that goes on behind the scenes in any walk of life, and I, for one, am not going to hang on their every word like some people do.

In the end Ben owes many people an apology regardless of what happened that night. Included among that number are all of us finger pointers.

Prok
03-11-2010, 10:16 AM
I totally agree. I was referring to the charge of rape or assault.

I also agree there should be a different standard.

But at the same time, so many that will scorn BB are partiers, bar-hoppers, and what not. Consensual sex of this kind happens all over America in bars and night clubs. Barring a crime, I just think everyone should dial down the hypocrisy.

Agreed. Check this freakin' article out, claiming 100% of Steelers fanbase is AGAINST Ben... Journalism at it's finest....

http://www.fanfeedr.com/nfl/2010/03/11/ben-roethlisberger-claims-victim-is-a-****ty-klutz

The bottom line is we are now given a story against which the victimís allegations can be tested. If witnesses (at least those not on Benís payroll) can confirm she slipped, Ben is vindicated. If they canít, heís in huge trouble. This would explain the need to interview so many witnesses. One person who evidently wonít be interviewed is Willie Colon, who was part of Benís group that night. In an obvious attempt to distance himself from the sinking ship that is Benís future, Willieís agent issued an emphatic statement distancing his client from the sexual predator he blocks for.

zulater
03-11-2010, 10:20 AM
Regardless of the outcome, Ben "did something wrong". I don't care what "society" deems is appropriate behavior in these "modern times", this sordid series of events is disgusting on any level.

Ben is the face of the Pittsburgh Steelers, and by extension, Pittsburgh. His onfield performance elevated him to that station, and he has been handsomely compensated by our NFL franchise to lead the team on the field, and represent our team as its franchise QB off the field. He has failed miserably in the latter. Early on, we "chalked it up" to his youth. He hasn't grown out of it and has indeed gotten worse. By some accounts he now hangs by a thread with the Rooneys, and deservedly so.

Ben bears all the responsibility for this idiocy, regardless of the outcome because he chose to put himself in circumstances unbecoming of the face of the Pittsburgh Steelers. No excuse. No place to hide. Flat out failure to lead. His behavior spits in the face of the other 52 gentlemen that do tow their line for the team.

He may escape conviction and return to the field. I will root for the Pittsburgh Steelers regardless of who lines up under center. And Ben could suddenly awaken to the reality he is very blessed, bears responsibility to return on his blessings, and actually become the face of the Pittsburgh Steelers we all want him to be, at which point, I will again root for him.

As was said in another post - WWDBD? Ben, if the clues elude you, just ask yourself "What would Drew Brees do?".

Excellent post! :applaudit:

vrabinec
03-11-2010, 10:26 AM
Agreed. Check this freakin' article out, claiming 100% of Steelers fanbase is AGAINST Ben... Journalism at it's finest....

http://www.fanfeedr.com/nfl/2010/03/11/ben-roethlisberger-claims-victim-is-a-****ty-klutz

WTF? How can we be "against" him if we're all rooting for him to be innocent? We're ticked off that he even put himself in this position, but nobody's gonna be "against" him unless it's proven that he did it. Now, we can be pessimistic, and suspect that he may be guilty, but that's not being against him.

HAWK
03-11-2010, 10:28 AM
Agreed. I hope he's innocent. But I can't defend him if he's guilty.

Prok
03-11-2010, 10:40 AM
WTF? How can we be "against" him if we're all rooting for him to be innocent? We're ticked off that he even put himself in this position, but nobody's gonna be "against" him unless it's proven that he did it. Now, we can be pessimistic, and suspect that he may be guilty, but that's not being against him.

I know some fans are salivating that this has happened.

I posted that article to prove the point that some here are trying to make. There ARE many that are not giving the "innocent until proven guilty" thing a chance.

zulater
03-11-2010, 10:51 AM
I know some fans are salivating that this has happened.

Who exactly?

I posted that article to prove the point that some here are trying to make. There ARE many that are not giving the "innocent until proven guilty" thing a chance.


http://forums.steelersfever.com/showthread.php?t=48792&page=2


There's a thread on this board, ten best Steelers, every responder save two had Ben as one of their top 3, no one had Ben missing from their top ten. Most have him first or second. If you were to calculate it along the lines of the way they decide baseball's MVP it would be practically a dead heat between Ben and Troy.

I think the everyone hates Ben angle is way overstated.

HAWK
03-11-2010, 10:54 AM
I think many people are pre-disposed to automatically convicting someone just because it's reported in the media. IOW, they believe everything they see on TV. It's true whether it be politics, celebrities, or whomever.

Texasteel
03-11-2010, 10:57 AM
i for one think he will never be found guilty. i think he was wrong for doing what he did and would go as far as to call his actions immature and stupied but i dont think he will be found guilty

You do realize that this post sort of sound like you are of the opinion that Ben did sexually assault this you lady, but will not be convicted. I don't think that is what you meant, at lest I hope not, but it can be read that way.

vrabinec
03-11-2010, 11:02 AM
I think many people are pre-disposed to automatically convicting someone just because it's reported in the media. IOW, they believe everything they see on TV. It's true whether it be politics, celebrities, or whomever.

Agreed, I always think everyone's guilty whenever something like this comes out. Just my nature. I think it's because I raised a couple kids and 99% of the time, they were guilty...

Fire Haley
03-11-2010, 11:05 AM
This is part of what Florio wrote in his latest blog about Ben:

His well-publicized $102 million contract is moving toward the big-salary years, with his base pay of $4.75 million in 2009 shooting to $8.05 million in 2010. Next year, his salary moves to $11.6 million per year, and it stays there through 2014. In 2015, his base pay inches to $12.1 million.

Bottom line? With no salary cap in place, the Steelers need not worry about financial ramifications associated with trading or cutting Roethlisberger. And with more than $54 million to be paid to him in salary over the next five years, the Steelers need to be sure that he deserves the money -- and that they still want to give it to him.

vrabinec
03-11-2010, 11:06 AM
You do realize that this post sort of sound like you are of the opinion that Ben did sexually assault this you lady, but will not be convicted. I don't think that is what you meant, at lest I hope not, but it can be read that way.

We might be looking at a scenario in which we're trying to decide at what point making a pass at someone or making out becomes assault. If that's the case, then he's certain to have a much different definition than she does. If he's not convicted and he thinks he did nothing wrong while she thinks he did, then it's gonna leave a bad taste in everyone's mouth, but I'm betting Steeler fans will welcome him back (holding their nose a bit) while the rest of the league hammers him for life.

HAWK
03-11-2010, 11:11 AM
This is part of what Florio wrote in his latest blog about Ben:

His well-publicized $102 million contract is moving toward the big-salary years, with his base pay of $4.75 million in 2009 shooting to $8.05 million in 2010. Next year, his salary moves to $11.6 million per year, and it stays there through 2014. In 2015, his base pay inches to $12.1 million.

Bottom line? With no salary cap in place, the Steelers need not worry about financial ramifications associated with trading or cutting Roethlisberger. And with more than $54 million to be paid to him in salary over the next five years, the Steelers need to be sure that he deserves the money -- and that they still want to give it to him.

If I were him, the $$$ would be enough for me to get my shit together :thumbsup:

steelreserve
03-11-2010, 11:26 AM
Of course, but according to the previous post, Ben is guilty, guilty, guilty!!!! This is exactly the kind of sentiment I and HTG mentioned in our posts. The man hasn't even had time to fully explain his version of events, but he's 100% gone next season and it's time to turn to Dennis Dixon. Unreal!

Seems more to me like the kind of sentiment you and HTG are seeing everywhere because you're looking so hard for it. Just like the second half of last season, when Steelers Fever Fan Patrol Posse was out looking for any sign of "bandwagon fans" or "throwing guys under the bus," which basically came to mean anyone who had anything negative to say at all.

There is like ... this much sentiment out there from people who are ACTUALLY SERIOUS that they can tell right now that Ben is guilty of a crime. There's a lot of sentiment that he's a dumbass, that this is going to have an unpleasant result, or that this is going to earn him a suspension somehow, none of which are terribly far-fetched. Some people are a bit overdramatic about it, but you, HTG, and a few others apparently can't figure that out and are treating it all literally. That's what it looks like to me.

Either way, the result is that all this bitching about how the fans bitch too much and don't know anything got old about 6 months ago, and is more tiresome than the original bitching itself. OMG, not all the fans on an internet message board are patient and think everything out!! What do we do??? :willy:

I know! Let's be really vocal in complaining about them. Adding more negativity will make the negativity go away. And I bet once we lump all the negative nellies into one big category of "bandwagon fans" that we can preach to in a general sense, they'll all take us seriously when we tell them off, and the new people will know in advance that this is Serious Business, so they'll stop being negative too. Because one day -- I know this is coming soon :hope: -- all the new members will be positive and upbeat, and have a high IQ. All our complaining will have finally paid off! Can you see it coming?

OneForTheToe
03-11-2010, 11:28 AM
As for Ben not taking the girl to the hospital, c'monnnnnnnnnn. If i read everything right didn't she walk out of the bar BEFORE he did? Under her own power? Wasn't he and his party confronted by the police as he was exiting the club ??

He HAD to have been under the impression she was OK. C'mon, he's not a monster.


Without more facts you can't blame him for not looking after her "injuries.".

At first blush Ben's, "she slipped and hit her head" comment sounds like the proverbial, "I ran into a wall" excuse many women make when they have a black-eye because their husbands have hit them. On the other hand, sometimes people do run into walls and slip and fall on bathroom floors.

One thing that will be important is what she did immediately after the alleged assault. Did she hang around the bar with her group for a while? Did they go some place else before they looked for the police? Not that any of that would necessarily be determinative by itself, because, if she did wait a while before contacting the police, she would likely claim she was traumatized. However, those kinds of facts can be important.

I am certainly not concluding at this point that she is lying, but there is a quote in one of the articles about her traveling with a group. At the very least, that makes me wonder about whether this allegation is the result of group hysteria. It would go something like this. She comes out with a bump on her head, embarrassed by what she had just done. Her friends quiz her about what had happened. Maybe Ben had gotten "handzy" before the deed was done consensually ? Thereafter, Ben pretty much tells her to get lost. "And what was your name again?" Before long her friends have her convinced that she was assaulted. I'm not saying that is what happened ... just a thought.

In the end we will never know for sure what happened.

pete74
03-11-2010, 11:34 AM
You do realize that this post sort of sound like you are of the opinion that Ben did sexually assault this you lady, but will not be convicted. I don't think that is what you meant, at lest I hope not, but it can be read that way.

i dont know if he did or didnt and odds are i will never truely know but im definatly not saying he did it. im stating his actions were immature and irresponsible and i do belive that. i think he brought this upon himself whether guilty or innocent. he shouldnt be hanging out at college bars because of who he is. i know some will say thats not right but its the truth. as for him sexually assulting her, i have no clue nor does anyone else so im not saying he did or didnt

Prok
03-11-2010, 11:39 AM
Without more facts you can't blame him for not looking after her "injuries.".

At first blush Ben's, "she slipped and hit her head" comment sounds like the proverbial, "I ran into a wall" excuse many women make when they have a black-eye because their husbands have hit them. On the other hand, sometimes people do run into walls and slip and fall on bathroom floors.

One thing that will be important is what she did immediately after the alleged assault. Did she hang around the bar with her group for a while? Did they go some place else before they looked for the police? Not that any of that would be necessarily be determinative by itself, because if she did wait a while before contacting the police, she would likely claim she was traumatized, but it is a factor.

I am certainly not concluding at this point that she is lying, but there is a quote in one of the articles about her traveling with a group. At the very least, that makes me wonder about whether this allegation is the result of group hysteria. It would go something like this. She comes out with a bump on her head, embarrassed by what she had just done. Her friends quiz her about what had happened. Maybe Ben had gotten "handzy" before the deed was done consensually ? Thereafter, Ben pretty much tells her to get lost. "And what was your name again?" Before long her friends have her convinced that she was assaulted. I'm not saying that is what happened ... just a thought.

In the end we will never know for sure what happened.

Ya know, when i switched my allegience to this message board I had no idea how many intelligent, great posters were here. I just didn't see it until this huge ass incedent broke loose.

Glad I came here.

Steelreserve: You made great points as well.

X-Terminator
03-11-2010, 11:50 AM
He's been accused by two seperate people of some form of sexual assualt. I realize that's not the same as being charged. But accusations are out there.

And of course, accusations mean he's automatically guilty. Well, that seems to be the popular thinking, anyway.

No they wont.He put himslef in the hotbox, "they" or us didn't.

Not one person disputes that he put himself into this situation. What they DO dispute is the notion that he was in the situation, therefore he's guilty as sin of sexual assault.

Yeah it is. It's a free country, the Steelers are my team, this greatly concerns me. I plan on talking about the story while it develops, as it develops. You're welcome to refrain from the discusion if you like. Just don't tell me how to think or post.

So apparently it IS too much to ask for people to wait until the facts come out before sending him to the guillotine. Thanks for the admission.

Why shouldn't they? If he's the qb of the team they love and is doing the job they want and expect, yay Ben!

I would call that hypocrisy and bandwagonism.

Right now the biggest concern of most of us is that he's done something or put himself in a situation where the perception or the reality of him will bear consequences that will interfere with his ability to do that job.

Again, not one person disputes this and everyone has the same concern.

All of this "I'll never root for him again" BS is just that - BS. As soon as he would throw his first TD pass or lead the team to a late-game win, you'll have to get the jaws of life to pry their lips off his ass.

If a person says they're never going to root for him again, then when he throws a TD pass, said person should keep his or her butt planted in your seat/couch/chair. Stand up for what you believe in. Anything else, and you are a hypocrite.

Because her and I have a posting history going back 4 or 5 years, mostly very positive, that you and I don't share. I consider her as close to a friend as you can possibly be with a person that you've never actually met. .(even though she may not agree at this moment ),

Wrong answer, but nice try anyway. She gets more shit than anyone on this board because she is a female, and moreso because she's a female moderator. Can't be any other explanation.

And I know you better than you think I do.

I stated as much didn't I? But there's also literally thousands of high profile athletes throughout this country that seem to have no problem whatsoever not drawing negative attention to themselves.

No argument here.

Not me, not for anything more than bad judgement.

No argument here either, for the simple fact that the guy is too old to be hanging out in college bars. Other than that, the man is entitled to go out and party the same as anyone else.

I'm quite aware of that. But I also think he'll need to do more than that to remain a viable qb in the NFL. A hung jury acquittal wouldn't do it here, if Ben were to be tried on felony sexual assualt. Wouldn't you agree?

It would actually have to get to that point first, would it not? Since no formal charges have been levied, it's pointless to even speculate about that right now.

Ben needs to hold himself to a higher standard of personal conduct and then the finger pointers will stop pointing fingers. Taking a stranger into the restroom for a quickie (or anything else) isn't good judgement. Ben's actions should be more of a concern to us than so called finger pointers.

I think it's about time we stop holding athletes and other celebrities to higher standards and realize that they are human beings just like anyone else. Besides, a man taking a woman into the restroom for a quickie (or anything else) is something that happens hundreds of times a day. It's hardly uncommon and definitely not shock-worthy. The only difference is most of us aren't rich and famous, and thus have a bullseye on our backs as a result.

In the end Ben owes many people an apology regardless of what happened that night. Included among that number are all of us finger pointers. In the end Ben owes many people an apology regardless of what happened that night. Included among that number are all of us finger pointers.

Ben doesn't owe the fans a damn thing. The only people he needs to apologize to are the Rooneys (the guys who sign his paychecks), his teammates (the ones he goes to war with and have to rely on to be successful) and his family (self-explanatory)...IOW, the only ones who really matter.

plenewken
03-11-2010, 11:55 AM
Regardless of the outcome, Ben "did something wrong". I don't care what "society" deems is appropriate behavior in these "modern times", this sordid series of events is disgusting on any level.

Ben is the face of the Pittsburgh Steelers, and by extension, Pittsburgh. His onfield performance elevated him to that station, and he has been handsomely compensated by our NFL franchise to lead the team on the field, and represent our team as its franchise QB off the field. He has failed miserably in the latter. Early on, we "chalked it up" to his youth. He hasn't grown out of it and has indeed gotten worse. By some accounts he now hangs by a thread with the Rooneys, and deservedly so.

Ben bears all the responsibility for this idiocy, regardless of the outcome because he chose to put himself in circumstances unbecoming of the face of the Pittsburgh Steelers. No excuse. No place to hide. Flat out failure to lead. His behavior spits in the face of the other 52 gentlemen that do tow their line for the team.

He may escape conviction and return to the field. I will root for the Pittsburgh Steelers regardless of who lines up under center. And Ben could suddenly awaken to the reality he is very blessed, bears responsibility to return on his blessings, and actually become the face of the Pittsburgh Steelers we all want him to be, at which point, I will again root for him.

As was said in another post - WWDBD? Ben, if the clues elude you, just ask yourself "What would Drew Brees do?".

Great post. I completely and wholeheartedly agree with you.

fansince'76
03-11-2010, 12:09 PM
Seems more to me like the kind of sentiment you and HTG are seeing everywhere because you're looking so hard for it. Just like the second half of last season, when Steelers Fever Fan Patrol Posse was out looking for any sign of "bandwagon fans" or "throwing guys under the bus," which basically came to mean anyone who had anything negative to say at all.

There is like ... this much sentiment out there from people who are ACTUALLY SERIOUS that they can tell right now that Ben is guilty of a crime. There's a lot of sentiment that he's a dumbass, that this is going to have an unpleasant result, or that this is going to earn him a suspension somehow, none of which are terribly far-fetched. Some people are a bit overdramatic about it, but you, HTG, and a few others apparently can't figure that out and are treating it all literally. That's what it looks like to me.

Either way, the result is that all this bitching about how the fans bitch too much and don't know anything got old about 6 months ago, and is more tiresome than the original bitching itself. OMG, not all the fans on an internet message board are patient and think everything out!! What do we do??? :willy:

I know! Let's be really vocal in complaining about them. Adding more negativity will make the negativity go away. And I bet once we lump all the negative nellies into one big category of "bandwagon fans" that we can preach to in a general sense, they'll all take us seriously when we tell them off, and the new people will know in advance that this is Serious Business, so they'll stop being negative too. Because one day -- I know this is coming soon :hope: -- all the new members will be positive and upbeat, and have a high IQ. All our complaining will have finally paid off! Can you see it coming?

And your bitching about the bitching about the bitching has become the most tiresome thing of all.

X-Terminator
03-11-2010, 12:09 PM
Seems more to me like the kind of sentiment you and HTG are seeing everywhere because you're looking so hard for it. Just like the second half of last season, when Steelers Fever Fan Patrol Posse was out looking for any sign of "bandwagon fans" or "throwing guys under the bus," which basically came to mean anyone who had anything negative to say at all.

There is like ... this much sentiment out there from people who are ACTUALLY SERIOUS that they can tell right now that Ben is guilty of a crime. There's a lot of sentiment that he's a dumbass, that this is going to have an unpleasant result, or that this is going to earn him a suspension somehow, none of which are terribly far-fetched. Some people are a bit overdramatic about it, but you, HTG, and a few others apparently can't figure that out and are treating it all literally. That's what it looks like to me.

Either way, the result is that all this bitching about how the fans bitch too much and don't know anything got old about 6 months ago, and is more tiresome than the original bitching itself. OMG, not all the fans on an internet message board are patient and think everything out!! What do we do??? :willy:

I know! Let's be really vocal in complaining about them. Adding more negativity will make the negativity go away. And I bet once we lump all the negative nellies into one big category of "bandwagon fans" that we can preach to in a general sense, they'll all take us seriously when we tell them off, and the new people will know in advance that this is Serious Business, so they'll stop being negative too. Because one day -- I know this is coming soon :hope: -- all the new members will be positive and upbeat, and have a high IQ. All our complaining will have finally paid off! Can you see it coming?

I don't have to search hard for anything. All I have to do is read.

There's going to be an "unpleasant result?" How do you know this for sure? You don't. That's why I and others keep saying to let everything play out. At this point, it's all he said/she said speculation with no hard evidence. I don't disagree that he's a dumbass for putting himself in this situation, but the last I checked, there's no crime for being a dumbass.

It's not bitching. That is you calling it such. It's an observation, just as your opinion here is based on your own observations.

Prok
03-11-2010, 12:11 PM
And your bitching about the bitching about the bitching has become the most tiresome thing of all.

And then this post is so brilliant on so many levels. Simple, yet brilliant. lol

Vincent
03-11-2010, 12:23 PM
If I were him, the $$$ would be enough for me to get my shit together :thumbsup:

I'll keep my @#$% together for $5M. But that's my final offer.

WH
03-11-2010, 12:26 PM
I've noticed over the years that in the eye of public opinion, it's not the end of a story like this that is remembered, it's the means.. Whether the person did or did not commit the crime...the stigma that they were accused lingers with them until the day they die, or the day they are forgotten.

That said, because of this the Steelers (and as someone said ''by extension, Pittsburgh'') are now going to be known as ''that team with the QB that sexually assaulted that girl'' by people who just read headlines and don't read the followup details.

Especially fans of other teams. I mean, look what alot of Steelers fans still say about Ray Lewis. He was never found guilty for murder, but yet many of us have in the past called him a murderer or ''Ray the Knife.''

WH
03-11-2010, 12:28 PM
I'll keep my @#$% together for $5M. But that's my final offer.
I think it may have been the money that makes most of these players lose their minds.

El-Gonzo Jackson
03-11-2010, 12:30 PM
And your bitching about the bitching about the bitching has become the most tiresome thing of all.

Can I comment about your moderating of the bitching about the bitching of the bitching?? :confused: :chuckle:

Man, did you ever notice how slow time moves in the offseason?. :noidea:

El-Gonzo Jackson
03-11-2010, 12:34 PM
I've noticed over the years that in the eye of public opinion, the girl in a sexual assaults story is always favored. Whether the person did or did not commit the crime...the stigma that they were accused lingers with them until the day they die, or the day they are forgotten.

That said, because of this the Steelers (and as someone said ''by extension, Pittsburgh'') are now going to be known as ''that team with the QB that sexually assaulted that girl'' by people who just read headlines and don't read the followup details.

Especially fans of other teams. I mean, look what alot of Steelers fans still say about Ray Lewis. He was never found guilty for murder, but yet many of us have in the past called him a murderer or ''Ray the Knife.''

Yeah, I have noticed that the shooting victim is normally favored over the alleged shooter in the eye of public opinion too. Same with the victims of carjacking as opposed to the accused carjacker. Funny how that works out. :uhh:

steelreserve
03-11-2010, 12:35 PM
I don't have to search hard for anything. All I have to do is read.

There's going to be an "unpleasant result?" How do you know this for sure? You don't. That's why I and others keep saying to let everything play out. At this point, it's all he said/she said speculation with no hard evidence. I don't disagree that he's a dumbass for putting himself in this situation, but the last I checked, there's no crime for being a dumbass.

It's not bitching. That is you calling it such. It's an observation, just as your opinion here is based on your own observations.

Yes, it IS bitching, and not even constructive bitching. When you steer the argument away from "I think your opinion is wrong" and make it into "Your opinion is wrong because there's something personally wrong with you," that does nothing productive to further any debate, and just creates a lot of useless animosity. For the Fan Patrol Possee, it seems to be the standard MO. Let me illustrate:

Helpful
Member: "We're screwed, Ben's going to jail."
You: "Uhh, aren't you being a little premature? He's innocent until proven guilty."

Unhelpful:
Member: "We're screwed, Ben's going to jail."
You: "oh my GOD, what's wrong with you? Steelers fans are just spoiled bandwagoners who jump ship at the first sign of trouble. :banging: "


Helpful
Member: "If the worst happens, what would happen with Dixon as our QB?"
You: "I really don't think Ben's going to be suspended or cut, but since that's not the point, hypothetically, Dixon would be OK/not OK (circle one)."

Unhelpful
Member: "If the worst happens, what would happen with Dixon as our QB?"
You: "Why are we even TALKING about this? Nothing's going to happen, so this thread is irrelevant. GOD, why do people always think the sky is falling? I'm SO sick of this place! :banging: "


Helpful
Member: "I think Ben's an embarrassment and the Rooneys are going to let him go."
You: "I don't think what he did is a big deal, and the Rooneys haven't said anything about letting him go. You're just taking wild guesses."

Unhelpful
Member: "I think Ben's an embarrassment and the Rooneys are going to let him go."
You: "OMG, you'll just throw him under the bus at the first sign of trouble, but then when the season starts you'll be kissing his ass again! You're just an example of why the fans are so short-sighted and hypocritical! Should we cut all the starters every time they have a bad game, and trade Ben for Michael Vick? I'm SO glad you're not in charge of the team :banging: :banging: :banging: "


See what I'm getting at?

Probably not, but at least I tried.

steelreserve
03-11-2010, 12:42 PM
And your bitching about the bitching about the bitching has become the most tiresome thing of all.

Didn't take a rocket scientist to see that one coming one day.

How about this: You quit bitching about people's arguing styles, and I'll quit bitching about people's arguing styles.

And then this post is so brilliant on so many levels. Simple, yet brilliant. lol

Just one more step in the evolution of the board away from football and toward sniping at each other, I'm afraid. It's bitching about the bitching about the bitching about the bitching.

This very post might itself be the first confirmed example of bitching about the bitching about the bitching about the bitching about the bitching. Next season we'll be up to six or seven bitchings.

WH
03-11-2010, 12:45 PM
Yeah, I have noticed that the shooting victim is normally favored over the alleged shooter in the eye of public opinion too. Same with the victims of carjacking as opposed to the accused carjacker. Funny how that works out. :uhh:

:blah:

Dino 6 Rings
03-11-2010, 12:48 PM
I still say he needs to lose some weight and work on scrambling for first downs some more. I mean, there have been plenty of times when he could tuck it and run for a first where he doesn't and throws an incomplete pass or takes the sack. Sure he does make plays down field running east and west in the pocket, but man, sometimes I wish he'd just tuck it and go straight ahead a little more.

Oh, and he needs to be watching game film more. Oh, and audibles at the line checking into running plays would be awesome...

what's the topic again?

oh wait...yeah, he's in trouble for assaulting a girl in a bathroom of a club in a small town in georgia at 2 in the morning...probably should have been watching game film instead of going out.

fansince'76
03-11-2010, 12:49 PM
Didn't take a rocket scientist to see that one coming one day.

How about this: You quit bitching about people's arguing styles, and I'll quit bitching about people's arguing styles.

Fair 'nough. :hatsoff: This thread has become quite comical to me, personally. :toofunny: :toofunny: :toofunny:

X-Terminator
03-11-2010, 12:49 PM
Yes, it IS bitching, and not even constructive bitching. When you steer the argument away from "I think your opinion is wrong" and make it into "Your opinion is wrong because there's something personally wrong with you," that does nothing productive to further any debate, and just creates a lot of useless animosity. For the Fan Patrol Possee, it seems to be the standard MO. Let me illustrate:

Helpful
Member: "We're screwed, Ben's going to jail."
You: "Uhh, aren't you being a little premature? He's innocent until proven guilty."

Unhelpful:
Member: "We're screwed, Ben's going to jail."
You: "oh my GOD, what's wrong with you? Steelers fans are just spoiled bandwagoners who jump ship at the first sign of trouble. :banging: "


Helpful
Member: "If the worst happens, what would happen with Dixon as our QB?"
You: "I really don't think Ben's going to be suspended or cut, but since that's not the point, hypothetically, Dixon would be OK/not OK (circle one)."

Unhelpful
Member: "If the worst happens, what would happen with Dixon as our QB?"
You: "Why are we even TALKING about this? Nothing's going to happen, so this thread is irrelevant. GOD, why do people always think the sky is falling? I'm SO sick of this place! :banging: "


Helpful
Member: "I think Ben's an embarrassment and the Rooneys are going to let him go."
You: "I don't think what he did is a big deal, and the Rooneys haven't said anything about letting him go. You're just taking wild guesses."

Unhelpful
Member: "I think Ben's an embarrassment and the Rooneys are going to let him go."
You: "OMG, you'll just throw him under the bus at the first sign of trouble, but then when the season starts you'll be kissing his ass again! You're just an example of why the fans are so short-sighted and hypocritical! Should we cut all the starters every time they have a bad game, and trade Ben for Michael Vick? I'm SO glad you're not in charge of the team :banging: :banging: :banging: "


See what I'm getting at?

Probably not, but at least I tried.

Wow, talk about being overly dramatic...

Dino 6 Rings
03-11-2010, 12:54 PM
Like, if he checks off and doesn't throw that pass before the half in the Colts game, maybe we win that one. Sure we won the SB that year, so its not polite to complain, but still, man, check off sometimes and hand it off.

And gosh darn it, learn to take a sack without getting your brains beat in, sometimes, laying down when the pocket collapses can save your brain.

Brain...apparently Ben needs to start using his in social settings.

Gnutella
03-11-2010, 12:55 PM
Wow, talk about being overly dramatic...

We have for 119 pages now!

vrabinec
03-11-2010, 12:56 PM
Ben doesn't owe the fans a damn thing. The only people he needs to apologize to are the Rooneys (the guys who sign his paychecks), his teammates (the ones he goes to war with and have to rely on to be successful) and his family (self-explanatory)...IOW, the only ones who really matter.

The fans are the customer. If I screw up at work, and it causes my compay's customer pain, then I don't owe the customer an apology? Good to know.

Shoes
03-11-2010, 12:57 PM
We have for 119 pages now!

.....yes, 119 pages of wasted time :chuckle:

Dino 6 Rings
03-11-2010, 12:59 PM
He needs to apologize to me for throwing those picks against the Effing Raiders back in the 06 Season. I'm still pissssed about that game.

Oh, and the scramble against the Jags, he can apologize to me for that one too! Slow as molasses

Dino 6 Rings
03-11-2010, 01:00 PM
Oh, and Taylor needs to apologize for dropping that interception against the Chiefs last season.

Yeah! He does!

Prok
03-11-2010, 01:01 PM
Didn't take a rocket scientist to see that one coming one day.

How about this: You quit bitching about people's arguing styles, and I'll quit bitching about people's arguing styles.



Just one more step in the evolution of the board away from football and toward sniping at each other, I'm afraid. It's bitching about the bitching about the bitching about the bitching.

This very post might itself be the first confirmed example of bitching about the bitching about the bitching about the bitching about the bitching. Next season we'll be up to six or seven bitchings.

A: Piss directly into 50 mph winds, for 5,000 Alex.

Q: What would you do to avoid arguing with steelreserve.

:drink:

Prok
03-11-2010, 01:03 PM
.....yes, 119 pages of wasted time :chuckle:

Not a waste of time Shoes. I'm still scared as HELL and very much in soap opera mode over this whole ordeal.

:wink02:

BlastFurnace
03-11-2010, 01:09 PM
Has this thread surpassed last years Ben Sex thread in the amount of pages?

Shoes
03-11-2010, 01:12 PM
Not a waste of time Shoes. I'm still scared as HELL and very much in soap opera mode over this whole ordeal.

:wink02:

:chuckle::chuckle:

fansince'76
03-11-2010, 01:13 PM
That said, because of this the Steelers (and as someone said ''by extension, Pittsburgh'') are now going to be known as ''that team with the QB that sexually assaulted that girl'' by people who just read headlines and don't read the followup details.

Meh. We're already known in many quarters as the team that "only won in the '70s because they had the market cornered on juiced up players" and the "team that buys refs off" now. :noidea:

Prok
03-11-2010, 01:16 PM
not trying to stir up more shit. but these freaking articles keep coming. my f'n twitter page gets flooded...

http://www.fanfeedr.com/nfl/2010/03/11/big-bens-in-more-trouble-than-you-think

Judging by the relatively tame media coverage associated with Ben Roethlisberger's alleged sexual assault down in Georgia, you'd think that the case isn't that serious.

You'd be wrong.

Big Ben is in a huge mess, one that could potentially keep him off the field this upcoming season and more. As a lawyer, it's amazing to me that this story hasn't gotten more attention than it has. Given that Big Ben is one of the 20 most famous players in the NFL, a two-time Super Bowl winner, and the quarterback of one of the five most popular teams in the most popular sport in American history, the relative lack of solid analysis is astounding.

Again. I'm just posting an article.....

Gnutella
03-11-2010, 01:16 PM
Meh. We're already known in many quarters as the team that "only won in the '70s because they had the market cornered on juiced up players" and the "team that buys refs off" now. :noidea:

Some people seriously believe that the Steelers don't deserve a single one of their six Lombardi Trophies. :screwy:

X-Terminator
03-11-2010, 01:49 PM
The fans are the customer. If I screw up at work, and it causes my compay's customer pain, then I don't owe the customer an apology? Good to know.

Apples and oranges. Your screwup directly impacts your company's customer. Ben's alleged screwup directly impacts himself and the team he plays for. It has no impact on the fan base other than what we've seen throughout this thread. Your life is not going to be any better or worse than it is now regardless of what happens in this case unless you choose to make it so. We're talking about a SPORT, for Heaven's sake. It should not have that much of an impact on your life.

Steel_12
03-11-2010, 01:52 PM
Yes, it IS bitching, and not even constructive bitching. When you steer the argument away from "I think your opinion is wrong" and make it into "Your opinion is wrong because there's something personally wrong with you," that does nothing productive to further any debate, and just creates a lot of useless animosity. For the Fan Patrol Possee, it seems to be the standard MO. Let me illustrate:

Helpful
Member: "We're screwed, Ben's going to jail."
You: "Uhh, aren't you being a little premature? He's innocent until proven guilty."

Unhelpful:
Member: "We're screwed, Ben's going to jail."
You: "oh my GOD, what's wrong with you? Steelers fans are just spoiled bandwagoners who jump ship at the first sign of trouble. :banging: "


Helpful
Member: "If the worst happens, what would happen with Dixon as our QB?"
You: "I really don't think Ben's going to be suspended or cut, but since that's not the point, hypothetically, Dixon would be OK/not OK (circle one)."

Unhelpful
Member: "If the worst happens, what would happen with Dixon as our QB?"
You: "Why are we even TALKING about this? Nothing's going to happen, so this thread is irrelevant. GOD, why do people always think the sky is falling? I'm SO sick of this place! :banging: "


Helpful
Member: "I think Ben's an embarrassment and the Rooneys are going to let him go."
You: "I don't think what he did is a big deal, and the Rooneys haven't said anything about letting him go. You're just taking wild guesses."

Unhelpful
Member: "I think Ben's an embarrassment and the Rooneys are going to let him go."
You: "OMG, you'll just throw him under the bus at the first sign of trouble, but then when the season starts you'll be kissing his ass again! You're just an example of why the fans are so short-sighted and hypocritical! Should we cut all the starters every time they have a bad game, and trade Ben for Michael Vick? I'm SO glad you're not in charge of the team :banging: :banging: :banging: "


See what I'm getting at?

Probably not, but at least I tried.

:applaudit:

I see this around here a lot.

Vincent
03-11-2010, 01:54 PM
I didn't see this posted, so...

The cops with Ben say they didn't see anything "criminal" take place...

"They saw absolutely nothing that would indicate any crime was committed that weekend. They are a little bit shocked that this is even happening because they saw nothing criminal."

http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/sports/steelers/s_671085.html

vrabinec
03-11-2010, 02:04 PM
Apples and oranges. Your screwup directly impacts your company's customer. Ben's alleged screwup directly impacts himself and the team he plays for. It has no impact on the fan base other than what we've seen throughout this thread. Your life is not going to be any better or worse than it is now regardless of what happens in this case unless you choose to make it so. We're talking about a SPORT, for Heaven's sake. It should not have that much of an impact on your life.

Really? After the 2005 Super Bowl, I went out and bought an 24 x 36 autographed picture of Ben making "The Tackle". If he goes to jail, you think that's gonna be worth what I paid for it? And then there's this, here's a transcript from an actual conversation I had with the wife (I posted this days ago on the Official Steelers Message board and another site, just so you don't think it's something I just made up)

So I was reading the article on the Post Gazette page and the wife walked in. Here's the transcript:

Wife's hands go on hips. 'Reading about that creep?'

Cough. 'Uh, baby, the investigation is still going on. We don't know if he-'

Rolls the eyes. 'Oh, for the love of...AGAIN? Are you saying ANOTHER girl is making stuff up about him? Give me a break. Yeah, I'm sure girls all over the planet have a devious plan to set up your favorite player.'

'But, baby...'

'Oh stop defending him. And I'm not buying you any Steeler stuff for your birthday this year. Not as long as that PERVERT is on the team. And you can forget getting any tickets this year. We can't afford in this economy anyway.' Walks out and closes the door behind her.

Fred flips the bird at the closed door.

Thanks Ben. No, really, thanks, because this is just what I needed. I had her convinced that my life depends on getting those tickets to couple games we go to each year. Now I get to watch them all of TV, and I'm sure she'll make watching a game with Ben at QB oh so pleasant. Sigh.

So don't tell me this doesn't have an impact on my life.

Steel_12
03-11-2010, 02:07 PM
Really? After the 2005 Super Bowl, I went out and bought an 24 x 36 autographed picture of Ben making "The Tackle". If he goes to jail, you think that's gonna be worth what I paid for it? And then there's this, here's a transcript from an actual conversation I had with the wife (I posted this days ago on the Official Steelers Message board and another site, just so you don't think it's something I just made up)

So I was reading the article on the Post Gazette page and the wife walked in. Here's the transcript:

Wife's hands go on hips. 'Reading about that creep?'

Cough. 'Uh, baby, the investigation is still going on. We don't know if he-'

Rolls the eyes. 'Oh, for the love of...AGAIN? Are you saying ANOTHER girl is making stuff up about him? Give me a break. Yeah, I'm sure girls all over the planet have a devious plan to set up your favorite player.'

'But, baby...'

'Oh stop defending him. And I'm not buying you any Steeler stuff for your birthday this year. Not as long as that PERVERT is on the team. And you can forget getting any tickets this year. We can't afford in this economy anyway.' Walks out and closes the door behind her.

Fred flips the bird at the closed door.

Thanks Ben. No, really, thanks, because this is just what I needed. I had her convinced that my life depends on getting those tickets to couple games we go to each year. Now I get to watch them all of TV, and I'm sure she'll make watching a game with Ben at QB oh so pleasant. Sigh.

So don't tell me this doesn't have an impact on my life.

LMAO

SteelersinCA
03-11-2010, 02:07 PM
Ben doesn't owe the fans a damn thing. The only people he needs to apologize to are the Rooneys (the guys who sign his paychecks), his teammates (the ones he goes to war with and have to rely on to be successful) and his family (self-explanatory)...IOW, the only ones who really matter.

I respectfully disagree. We pay his paycheck. We buy the merchandise, the tickets the concessions. He owes us plenty.

Prok
03-11-2010, 02:08 PM
I didn't see this posted, so...

The cops with Ben say they didn't see anything "criminal" take place...

"They saw absolutely nothing that would indicate any crime was committed that weekend. They are a little bit shocked that this is even happening because they saw nothing criminal."

http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/sports/steelers/s_671085.html

The answer to that when these charges get filed and this thing goes to court:

"They didn't look in the restroom."

:banging: :banging: :banging:

pete74
03-11-2010, 02:17 PM
Apples and oranges. Your screwup directly impacts your company's customer. Ben's alleged screwup directly impacts himself and the team he plays for. It has no impact on the fan base other than what we've seen throughout this thread. Your life is not going to be any better or worse than it is now regardless of what happens in this case unless you choose to make it so. We're talking about a SPORT, for Heaven's sake. It should not have that much of an impact on your life.

i disagree. he is the face of the franchise and represents the team and the city

Prok
03-11-2010, 02:24 PM
Really? After the 2005 Super Bowl, I went out and bought an 24 x 36 autographed picture of Ben making "The Tackle". If he goes to jail, you think that's gonna be worth what I paid for it? And then there's this, here's a transcript from an actual conversation I had with the wife (I posted this days ago on the Official Steelers Message board and another site, just so you don't think it's something I just made up)

So I was reading the article on the Post Gazette page and the wife walked in. Here's the transcript:

Wife's hands go on hips. 'Reading about that creep?'

Cough. 'Uh, baby, the investigation is still going on. We don't know if he-'

Rolls the eyes. 'Oh, for the love of...AGAIN? Are you saying ANOTHER girl is making stuff up about him? Give me a break. Yeah, I'm sure girls all over the planet have a devious plan to set up your favorite player.'

'But, baby...'

'Oh stop defending him. And I'm not buying you any Steeler stuff for your birthday this year. Not as long as that PERVERT is on the team. And you can forget getting any tickets this year. We can't afford in this economy anyway.' Walks out and closes the door behind her.

Fred flips the bird at the closed door.

Thanks Ben. No, really, thanks, because this is just what I needed. I had her convinced that my life depends on getting those tickets to couple games we go to each year. Now I get to watch them all of TV, and I'm sure she'll make watching a game with Ben at QB oh so pleasant. Sigh.

So don't tell me this doesn't have an impact on my life.

I can relate to that point. I'm extremely emotionally involved in this matter and as a direct result i come here seeking some sort of emotional therapy amongst fellow Steelers fans.

Then this guy Shoes accuses me of being a soap opera writer and now i'm even more emotionally scarred. Ya think i got a case ??

:wink02:

Seriously tho, I agree with you on that point.

Vincent
03-11-2010, 02:28 PM
And you can forget getting any tickets this year.

Mrs. Fred doesn't seem to have fully assimilated the command structure.

vrabinec
03-11-2010, 02:43 PM
Mrs. Fred doesn't seem to have fully assimilated the command structure.

Well, in fairness, the economy really HAS screwed us up. Business is down 60% from two years ago, so going to the games really has to be squeezed into the budget. Not going gives her some breathing room, but I'd rather keep it tight and go to the games. This gives her the perfect excuse. It's not that she doesn't like football, she does, but she just doesn't see the value of going to the game.

Prok
03-11-2010, 02:59 PM
BTW is anybody else here getting the old standard "F that, he's GUILTY, i'd want him OFF my team in a heartbeat if it were my QB !!!" response from opposing fan friends ??

Boy that line never gets old i tell ya........

SteelCityMom
03-11-2010, 03:03 PM
Attorney For Cop Who Was With Roethlisberger Talks To WPXI

PITTSBURGH -- Two off-duty Pennsylvania law enforcement officers were with Pittsburgh Steelers quarterback Ben Roethlisberger at the Georgia nightclub where a woman accused him of sexual assault, and the two men didn't see anything inappropriate, an attorney for one of them said Wednesday.
Channel 11 News reporter Alan Jennings interviewed attorney Michael Santicola, who is representing Anthony Barravecchio, an officer on the force in the Pittsburgh suburb of Coraopolis.
Barravecchio and State Police Trooper Ed Joyner were among about eight people with Roethlisberger celebrating his birthday at the Milledgeville, Ga., club where the alleged sexual assault took place.

An attorney for one of the officers talked with Alan Jennings. Hear what he had to say on Channel 11 News at 5 p.m.
Both officers are known friends of the two-time Super Bowl winner.
Sources close to the investigation told Jennings that Roethlisberger told police his accuser fell and hit her head in the club. According to the source, Roethlisberger said what occurred was consensual but it was not intercourse.
Jennings later learned that the accuser appeared to be heavily intoxicated, but Roethlisberger allegedly didn't buy or give her a single drink.
Jennings was told the woman, a 20-year-old Georgia college student, bought her own drinks and that her apparent intoxication may have caused her to fall.
According to Channel 11 sources, not a single witness said the accuser asked for help.
"Honestly, this is not lining up with someone who has been sexually assaulted," said Santicola.
Police did question Roethlisberger about the night in question last week, but never asked to talk to any member of his eight-person entourage, Jennings said.
Barravecchio's lawyer told Jennings on camera that his client told him, "I do know unequivocally that no criminal activity took place from Tony's perspective and everything else we know that absolutely these allegations are not true."
Santicola told Jennings his client has not been questioned by Georgia authorities, which is a red flag, in his opinion. If his client is asked to give a statement, he said it would be given freely.
Barravecchio said he was not present when the police talked to Roethlisberger.
Ed Garland, an attorney for Roethlisberger, has said the quarterback is innocent of any crime and that no sexual assault occurred.
Two Atlanta-based attorneys for the woman who accused Roethlisberger have said that she did the right thing and asked for her family's privacy.
Milledgeville police have said they expect to interview Roethlisberger this week and are planning to take a DNA sample from him.
Roethlisberger, who owns a home about 30 miles north of Milledgeville on Lake Oconee, is also being sued by a woman who claims he raped her in 2008 at a hotel-casino in Lake Tahoe, an allegation he strongly denies.

http://www.wpxi.com/sports/22810615/detail.html

SteelCityMom
03-11-2010, 03:09 PM
Roethlisberger's Accuser Returning To School
Posted: 6:37 am EST March 11,2010

The 20-year-old woman who has accused Pittsburgh Steelers quarterback Ben Roethlisberger of sexual assault plans on returning to Georgia College and State University next week.
Her attorney said the woman took a week off from school and is staying with her parents in Atlanta.
Police in Milledgeville, Ga., said the investigation could take several weeks. On Monday, investigators said they planned to interview Roethlisberger and at least seven other people who were with him. The interviews were expected to take place this week.
But Roethlisberger’s attorney in Atlanta, Ed Garland, wouldn’t say when or if that will happen.
“I’m not going to say either way,” said Garland. “That’s the approach we are going to take.”
Garland also wouldn’t say whether Roethlisberger would submit a DNA sample to investigators. Garland, however, said he would give police the names of the people who were with Roethlisberger Friday night, when the alleged incident happened at a Milledgeville nightclub.
To read the full story on wpxi.com click here.

http://www.wsbtv.com/news/22806559/detail.html

Prok
03-11-2010, 03:14 PM
Jennings later learned that the accuser appeared to be heavily intoxicated, but Roethlisberger allegedly didn't buy or give her a single drink.

Jennings was told the woman, a 20-year-old Georgia college student, bought her own drinks and that her apparent intoxication may have caused her to fall.

Betcha's anything this tidbit went un-noticed during her whole hospital visit. And bet anything her blood alcohol level wasn't tested.

pete74
03-11-2010, 03:15 PM
they had to of tested her blood at the hospital and if she was drunk then that helps the defense

Prok
03-11-2010, 03:18 PM
they had to of tested her blood at the hospital and if she was drunk then that helps the defense

then i wonder why we're hearing so much negative on Ben but yet nobody seems to want to look into that aspect?

Steel_Bus_24
03-11-2010, 03:19 PM
Good for Ben that someone is speaking up that helps his defense


He needs witnesses on his side.....because if its his word vs hers then that wouldn't be good for him

OneForTheToe
03-11-2010, 03:19 PM
Boy, if she really was that drunk, that could cut a few different ways. First, even assuming he didn't buy her any drinks or she had a fake ID that he was not aware of, if she was so wasted that it was obvious she wasn't able to consent, that will not look good for him, especially in a jury trial.. The lack of a protest on her part to what he was doing (trying to do) is not a defense for Ben if it would be obvious to a reasonable person that she was too drunk to consent. You can't jump on the passed out girl on the couch and then claim she didn't object. On the other hand, if she was drinking but still able to consent, Ben's, "she fell and hit her head on the floor," explanation becomes more believable.

Of course, if he bought her a drink knowing she was underage ........

steelreserve
03-11-2010, 03:25 PM
Betcha's anything this tidbit went un-noticed during her whole hospital visit. And bet anything her blood alcohol level wasn't tested.

I'm pretty sure that if the woman is too drunk to stand up straight, the only difference is he'd be accused of date rape instead of regular rape. Except replace rape with "sexual assault," or whatever they call it when it's a BJ instead of full-on sex.

The point is -- NOT CLAIMING I KNOW THIS IS ACTUALLY WHAT HAPPENED, FOR CHRISSAKES -- the drunker the woman is, the more likely it is that the prosecutor would argue she was too intoxicated to consent, and therefore it was still assault. A little drunk (and drinking illegally) is good for Ben. A sloppy drunk **** is not.

pete74
03-11-2010, 03:30 PM
then i wonder why we're hearing so much negative on Ben but yet nobody seems to want to look into that aspect?

right now its assumptions. we here different stories daily but nobody but ben and the girl know the truth. media portrays it either way they want to. the media has no clue what the cops and DA are thinking or looking into to, they only know what there told then come to a conclusion from that

Prok
03-11-2010, 03:32 PM
just seen someone on twitter say the girl actually followed him to restroom? then another person on twitter agreed. i can't find that info anywhere. can any of you's?

pete74
03-11-2010, 03:36 PM
alot of people are making up alot of different things and thats when stories like this get bad. most of you think ben will be found guilty but like i said before, i would bet anything he will not be found guilty of sexual assult.

Prok
03-11-2010, 03:46 PM
my friend:
she is a dumb arse 2, follow him 2 mens room, she was not going there 2 watch him P,it was for a BJ,now if he hit her shame on him
18 minutes ago via web

me:
where u get info she followed him to restroom?

friend:
i saw it in one of the reports out there, it could have been a champagne room, either way she followed him

vrabinec
03-11-2010, 04:01 PM
Jennings later learned that the accuser appeared to be heavily intoxicated, but Roethlisberger allegedly didn't buy or give her a single drink.
Jennings was told the woman, a 20-year-old Georgia college student, bought her own drinks and that her apparent intoxication may have caused her to fall.http://www.wpxi.com/sports/22810615/detail.html

That's the first bit of good news I've seen here. If she was plastered and staggering, makes the fall more plausible. Yahoo!

SteelCityMom
03-11-2010, 04:08 PM
then i wonder why we're hearing so much negative on Ben but yet nobody seems to want to look into that aspect?

They (the police and hospital) just probably aren't allowed to release that kind of information yet is my guess.

Prok
03-11-2010, 04:29 PM
They (the police and hospital) just probably aren't allowed to release that kind of information yet is my guess.

Either way we're starting to get some info that maybe just maybe Ben is not entirely guilty.

Stupid enough to be in this situation again? Yep.

But guilty of a serious crime? They have to prove beyond reasonable doubt so we'll see.

Prok
03-11-2010, 04:30 PM
That's the first bit of good news I've seen here. If she was plastered and staggering, makes the fall more plausible. Yahoo!

My thoughts exactly.

Dino 6 Rings
03-11-2010, 04:37 PM
pretty sure this was a theory put forth the moment her sorrority ordered all photos taken down and their face books shut down. Why do that unless you don't want pictures of chicks funnelling beer bongs getting out all over the internet.

Also, a 20 year old getting hammered in a bar, isn't good for the local cops either. Looks bad to have some underage girl getting plastered with a high profile athlete. And from what I've pieced together from the first statements, this isn't a girl he met at the Capital City bar, she and her friends were hanging with Ben and his friends Prior to getting into that club, meaning, she was most likely using a false ID to bar hop from club to club and drink.

Dino 6 Rings
03-11-2010, 04:39 PM
Oh, and he still holds onto the ball too dang long.

plenewken
03-11-2010, 04:46 PM
That's the first bit of good news I've seen here. If she was plastered and staggering, makes the fall more plausible. Yahoo!

Not too good news IMO. In fact her being plastered works against Ben and her lawyers will argue that she was unable to consent to have sex.

And by the way, banging a drunk broad ain't particularly glorious, Ben. Hope you can do better than that. LOL

Prok
03-11-2010, 04:47 PM
pretty sure this was a theory put forth the moment her sorrority ordered all photos taken down and their face books shut down. Why do that unless you don't want pictures of chicks funnelling beer bongs getting out all over the internet.

Also, a 20 year old getting hammered in a bar, isn't good for the local cops either. Looks bad to have some underage girl getting plastered with a high profile athlete. And from what I've pieced together from the first statements, this isn't a girl he met at the Capital City bar, she and her friends were hanging with Ben and his friends Prior to getting into that club, meaning, she was most likely using a false ID to bar hop from club to club and drink.

Yeah, the first few days painted a gruesome pic of Ben being guilty. So much so that there is a huge court of public opinion placing blame on him.

If all these "reports" are true this looks like a case that'll be very hard to prove against Ben.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Oh, and he still holds onto the ball too dang long.

No it's just the way Ben is. Accept it already.

:chuckle:

SteveS
03-11-2010, 04:48 PM
I was just driving home and listening to XM radio in my car and had it on the Fox Sports channel. The host of the show that was on was talking to a legal expert of their network, and the expert was saying that apparently the girl has been unsure if she was sexually assulted or raped, etc and her story has been kind of been going back and forth. This is the first I have heard of such a thing concerning the girl. However, if this is the case, this is good for Ben. The worst thing for anyone trying to make a case (whether they are trying to investigate to determine to file charges or not or during a trial) is not being able to get your story straight or not being 100% sure of what happened.

Also, FOX's expert said he finds it unlikely he would be convicted and even if he is, it would likely be for sexual battery not rape, which only carries a maximun of a year in jail.

Maybe this thing is starting to turn in his favor a little bit!

Prok
03-11-2010, 04:48 PM
Not too good news IMO. In fact her being plastered works against Ben and her lawyers will argue that she was unable to consent to have sex.

I doubt they'd be able to prove she was that plastered. jmo

plenewken
03-11-2010, 04:54 PM
I doubt they'd be able to prove she was that plastered. jmo

That's why Ben's lawyer better know what strategy to use. Her being drunk works against Ben more than it helps him. And being drunk has to be proven with a blood test, same as for a DUI.

SteelCityMom
03-11-2010, 05:01 PM
That's why Ben's lawyer better know what strategy to use. Her being drunk works against Ben more than it helps him. And being drunk has to be proven with a blood test, same as for a DUI.

I don't know...I don't see it as working against him. I mean, if she was so drunk that she couldn't walk or stand up on her own, then yeah that might work against him some. But you don't need to be that drunk to slip and fall or give someone a bj and regret it a couple hours later.

It certainly won't look good for her story if she was bar hopping with a fake ID either. As far as I've heard, he's got multiple witnesses to say that he never gave her or bought her a drink.

WH
03-11-2010, 05:09 PM
I keep having flashes of that picture of ben post '04 with the shirt that says ''Drink like a champion'' while he plastered and gropping all over some Duquesne hussy.

At least Jeff Reed just fights cops.

plenewken
03-11-2010, 05:10 PM
I don't know...I don't see it as working against him. I mean, if she was so drunk that she couldn't walk or stand up on her own, then yeah that might work against him some. But you don't need to be that drunk to slip and fall or give someone a bj and regret it a couple hours later.

It certainly won't look good for her story if she was bar hopping with a fake ID either. As far as I've heard, he's got multiple witnesses to say that he never gave her or bought her a drink.

Maybe but bottom line, Ben's an @ss. Getting chewed by a drunk 20yo broad? C'mon Ben! That's pretty pathetic if you ask me.

Prok
03-11-2010, 05:13 PM
I don't know...I don't see it as working against him. I mean, if she was so drunk that she couldn't walk or stand up on her own, then yeah that might work against him some. But you don't need to be that drunk to slip and fall or give someone a bj and regret it a couple hours later.

It certainly won't look good for her story if she was bar hopping with a fake ID either. As far as I've heard, he's got multiple witnesses to say that he never gave her or bought her a drink.

Agreed. This can really help Ben's cause.

tony hipchest
03-11-2010, 05:17 PM
Not too good news IMO. In fact her being plastered works against Ben and her lawyers will argue that she was unable to consent to have sex.

And by the way, banging a drunk broad ain't particularly glorious, Ben. Hope you can do better than that. LOL

she engaged in oral sex. :coffee: the act itself pretty much implies concent.

Yeah, the first few days painted a gruesome pic of Ben being guilty. So much so that there is a huge court of public opinion placing blame on him.

If all these "reports" are true this looks like a case that'll be very hard to prove against Ben.
:

quite frankly, i never saw it to be that gruesome or horrid, infact, ive had a pretty good time making fun of the doom and gloom.

Prok
03-11-2010, 05:23 PM
she engaged in oral sex. :coffee: the act itself pretty much implies concent.



quite frankly, i never saw it to be that gruesome or horrid, infact, ive had a pretty good time making fun of the doom and gloom.

well yeah thats cause you don't have my flare for the dramatic. you just have great humor on your side.


weak.



:chuckle:

HAWK
03-11-2010, 05:44 PM
Really? After the 2005 Super Bowl, I went out and bought an 24 x 36 autographed picture of Ben making "The Tackle". If he goes to jail, you think that's gonna be worth what I paid for it? And then there's this, here's a transcript from an actual conversation I had with the wife (I posted this days ago on the Official Steelers Message board and another site, just so you don't think it's something I just made up)

So I was reading the article on the Post Gazette page and the wife walked in. Here's the transcript:

Wife's hands go on hips. 'Reading about that creep?'

Cough. 'Uh, baby, the investigation is still going on. We don't know if he-'

Rolls the eyes. 'Oh, for the love of...AGAIN? Are you saying ANOTHER girl is making stuff up about him? Give me a break. Yeah, I'm sure girls all over the planet have a devious plan to set up your favorite player.'

'But, baby...'

'Oh stop defending him. And I'm not buying you any Steeler stuff for your birthday this year. Not as long as that PERVERT is on the team. And you can forget getting any tickets this year. We can't afford in this economy anyway.' Walks out and closes the door behind her.

Fred flips the bird at the closed door.

Thanks Ben. No, really, thanks, because this is just what I needed. I had her convinced that my life depends on getting those tickets to couple games we go to each year. Now I get to watch them all of TV, and I'm sure she'll make watching a game with Ben at QB oh so pleasant. Sigh.

So don't tell me this doesn't have an impact on my life.

Well forgive me for saying so...but this show's her ignorance. And unfortunately...most peoples. I feel for the guys that will have to listen to that.

When Vick was accused of killing dogs, I considered him innocent until proven guilty. That's the mentality we should all have. It's part of being an American. Everyone is so hung-up believing everything they hear and see on television that we forget one of the most important principles of this great country. when Vick was convicted then he became guilty as far as society was concerned.

Many men have been hung long before they even rec'd a trial. Today we still do it...we just do it through the media. If Ben is found to be guilty then the hell with him. But can we wait until then?

steeldawg
03-11-2010, 06:05 PM
That's why Ben's lawyer better know what strategy to use. Her being drunk works against Ben more than it helps him. And being drunk has to be proven with a blood test, same as for a DUI.

I wouldnt worry about ben's lawyer knowing what to do. Since hes one the best lawyers money can buy im sure he's got it figured out.

steelerdave1969
03-11-2010, 06:07 PM
I just wish they would move on with this and give us some true evidence of what is really happening.

Prok
03-11-2010, 06:11 PM
I just wish they would move on with this and give us some true evidence of what is really happening.

Don't we all.

Don't worry, once more evidence comes out that possibly Ben may be innocent all we'll see is a ton of people more than happy to step up and squash what little bit of hope we get.

:wink02:

AllD
03-11-2010, 06:17 PM
Just speculation, but he probably forgot to tell her he was "about to throw a pass" and finished. She felt bad after he refused to give her his number. He is still guilty of being stupid, but not a rapist.

X-Terminator
03-11-2010, 06:19 PM
I respectfully disagree. We pay his paycheck. We buy the merchandise, the tickets the concessions. He owes us plenty.

That may be, but IMO that only entitles you to 3 hours of entertainment and, hopefully, a quality team to support. It does not entitle you to an apology from anyone for any reason, just as it does not entitle you to a Super Bowl every season. Just my opinion - we can agree to disagree.

Really? After the 2005 Super Bowl, I went out and bought an 24 x 36 autographed picture of Ben making "The Tackle". If he goes to jail, you think that's gonna be worth what I paid for it? And then there's this, here's a transcript from an actual conversation I had with the wife (I posted this days ago on the Official Steelers Message board and another site, just so you don't think it's something I just made up)

So I was reading the article on the Post Gazette page and the wife walked in. Here's the transcript:

Wife's hands go on hips. 'Reading about that creep?'

Cough. 'Uh, baby, the investigation is still going on. We don't know if he-'

Rolls the eyes. 'Oh, for the love of...AGAIN? Are you saying ANOTHER girl is making stuff up about him? Give me a break. Yeah, I'm sure girls all over the planet have a devious plan to set up your favorite player.'

'But, baby...'

'Oh stop defending him. And I'm not buying you any Steeler stuff for your birthday this year. Not as long as that PERVERT is on the team. And you can forget getting any tickets this year. We can't afford in this economy anyway.' Walks out and closes the door behind her.

Fred flips the bird at the closed door.

Thanks Ben. No, really, thanks, because this is just what I needed. I had her convinced that my life depends on getting those tickets to couple games we go to each year. Now I get to watch them all of TV, and I'm sure she'll make watching a game with Ben at QB oh so pleasant. Sigh.

So don't tell me this doesn't have an impact on my life.

I read that the first time you posted it, and it's just as amazing now as it was then. I understand your wife's reaction, but dude...it's a GAME. Just a GAME. It is NOT supposed to be this important in your life. There are far, FAR more important things in this world than a game...like your family? With all due respect, if the Steelers have this much of an impact on your life, then you have your priorities screwed up.

vrabinec
03-11-2010, 06:23 PM
Not too good news IMO. In fact her being plastered works against Ben and her lawyers will argue that she was unable to consent to have sex.

And by the way, banging a drunk broad ain't particularly glorious, Ben. Hope you can do better than that. LOL

If you're gonna condemn every guy that hit on a drunk girl in a bar, then you better start with me, all my friends, and every guy I ever met in a bar. Yeah, it may make him look like a bit of a grease ball, but it makes her story start to come into doubt. Before this, she was as pure as the driven snow, an innocent 20 year-old coed who was just out with her friends having good clean fun. As soon as she got drunk, she broke the law, and now you have to start to wonder what other laws she's willing to break. And if they try to say that they didn't go there with the intention to get drunk, then what was their intent? To ge a good meal? I haven't heard that they were eating, and it was pretty late for that. To dance? That part of the bar didn't have dancing, only the part that Willie Colon was in did. That leaves the only other possibility, that they were out looking for men. That means she very well may have been flirting. Now, what happened in the bathroom may still rise to the level of sexual assault, but the case just got a little more murky, and she's gonna be looked at in a different light now.

tony hipchest
03-11-2010, 06:37 PM
That may be, but IMO that only entitles you to 3 hours of entertainment and, hopefully, a quality team to support. It does not entitle you to an apology from anyone for any reason, just as it does not entitle you to a Super Bowl every season. Just my opinion - we can agree to disagree.



I read that the first time you posted it, and it's just as amazing now as it was then. I understand your wife's reaction, but dude...it's a GAME. Just a GAME. It is NOT supposed to be this important in your life. There are far, FAR more important things in this world than a game...like your family? With all due respect, if the Steelers have this much of an impact on your life, then you have your priorities screwed up.

this post seems awfully judgemental which is ironic, being that your main point seems to be bitching at all the people who are judging ben.

i think people get a bit tired of the fan police constantly parading around, telling them the appropriate way to be a fan, how to react to certain situations, and how they should feel or not feel.

how do you know he has his priorities screwed up? we are all hanging out on a sports board talking sports, so dont that mean we all have our priorities screwed? none of us are out there solving world hunger, now are we.

just because there is more things important in life than a game, would it be fair to judge you if you didnt have a wife and kids?

dont you have season tickets to the pirates and penguins? i believe all vrabinec is talking about is seeng a few football games a year.

it just seems extremely hypocritical to me, and i dont even agree that ben owes us fans an apology. i would think he was an idiot if he TURNED DOWN the blowie in the restroom.

i think losing to the browns was more of a crime than him getting his knob slobbed.
i think arians gameplan then was more idiotic than ben's on his birthday.

but still i realize other people feel differently and i can respect that.

vrabinec has made the die hard fan trips to latrobe. for nothing, he has taken extensive notes, and taken the time to post them here, and share with fans who may not be spoiled with that luxory. if that is his hobby, following his team and expecting excellence, who is anybody to judge?

X-Terminator
03-11-2010, 06:53 PM
this post seems awfully judgemental which is ironic, being that your main point seems to be bitching at all the people who are judging ben.

i think people get a bit tired of the fan police constantly parading around, telling them the appropriate way to be a fan, how to react to certain situations, and how they should feel or not feel.

how do you know he has his priorities screwed up? we are all hanging out on a sports board talking sports, so dont that mean we all have our priorities screwed? none of us are out there solving world hunger, now are we.

just because there is more things important in life than a game, would it be fair to judge you if you didnt have a wife and kids?

dont you have season tickets to the pirates and penguins? i believe all vrabinec is talking about is seeng a few football games a year.

it just seems extremely hypocritical to me, and i dont even agree that ben owes us fans an apology. i would think he was an idiot if he TURNED DOWN the blowie in the restroom.

i think losing to the browns was more of a crime than him getting his knob slobbed.
i think arians gameplan then was more idiotic than ben's on his birthday.

but still i realize other people feel differently and i can respect that.

One, I really don't care what people think of me or how they judge me, least of all people in cyberspace that I don't even know. I'm here to say what's on my mind, which is all I did. Sports should be a diversion - they should not be the end all and be all and should not be more important than family, friends, etc. Yes, I have Penguins season tickets that I share with HTG, and had season tickets for the Pirates until this year. So what? All it means is I support my teams with my money - I don't expect anything in return other than to be entertained and that ownership at least make an attempt to have a competitive team, which is why I gave up my Pirates season tickets. And I certainly do not take them any more seriously than they really ought to be. I believe that if you do, then your priorities are not in the right place. I'm not going to apologize for feeling that way.

BTW, I think it sucks that vrabinec won't be able to see any games live, but he can still support them and watch them on TV, so it's not like he has nothing.

Two, regarding my criticism of those who are judging Ben - I am criticizing the automatic assumption of Ben's guilt by some people here, before everything about the case is known, evidence provided or charges filed. I'm NOT criticizing those who feel he made a horrible decision by putting himself in that situation to begin with. I don't and I never have disagreed with that. You seem to think I have a problem with people who have different opinions and that I don't respect them. You couldn't be further from the truth on both accounts. I am not forcing anyone to agree with me - all I am doing is speaking my mind.

vrabinec has made the die hard fan trips to latrobe. for nothing, he has taken extensive notes, and taken the time to post them here, and share with fans who may not be spoiled with that luxory. if that is his hobby, following his team and expecting excellence, who is anybody to judge?

I honestly was not aware he did all of that about the notes and stuff. He gets full kudos from me for doing that. Everyone needs a hobby. I just felt from his tone that he was taking things a little too seriously - sports are just sports, something to occupy some time in your life.

tony hipchest
03-11-2010, 06:59 PM
i know this situation sucks, but it will blow over before too long. granted ben shoulda never opened his mouth to the cops, but the good thing is he keeps good company who know that loose lips sink ships.

i gotta give a hand to the job his attorney is doing. its pretty obvious if what is accused is true, there would be loads of evidence. i have a feeling this case will be wadded up and tossed off the judges dockett. lets be real, here. its not like 2 people were left dead in the street, as ben and his entourage fled in a stretch limo hummer.

all i ask is that ben use his head more in the future.

SteelersinCA
03-11-2010, 07:01 PM
That may be, but IMO that only entitles you to 3 hours of entertainment and, hopefully, a quality team to support. It does not entitle you to an apology from anyone for any reason, just as it does not entitle you to a Super Bowl every season. Just my opinion - we can agree to disagree.

I'm with you up to the quality team to support. When his actions affect the "quality" of the product, I feel he owes us. I do not expect a Super Bowl every year at all, what I do expect is that my money I spend on Steelers goods goes to ensuring that quality product, which in this case translates into a player who makes sound decisions as the franchise player. After all, if the Steelers hired a bunch of people like Vick and Stallworth and Ray Lewis, I would reconsider my allegiance to the team. Part of the reason I love the organization is the quality it has produced and it's intolerance of this type of behavior.

tony hipchest
03-11-2010, 07:08 PM
One, I really don't care what people think of me or how they judge me, least of all people in cyberspace that I don't even know. I'm here to say what's on my mind, which is all I did. Sports should be a diversion - they should not be the end all and be all and should not be more important than family, friends, etc. Yes, I have Penguins season tickets that I share with HTG, and had season tickets for the Pirates until this year. So what? All it means is I support my teams with my money - I don't expect anything in return other than to be entertained and that ownership at least make an attempt to have a competitive team, which is why I gave up my Pirates season tickets. And I certainly do not take them any more seriously than they really ought to be. I believe that if you do, then your priorities are not in the right place. I'm not going to apologize for feeling that way.

I'm NOT criticizing those who feel he made a horrible decision by putting himself in that situation to begin with. I don't and I never have disagreed with that. You seem to think I have a problem with people who have different opinions and that I don't respect them. You couldn't be further from the truth on both accounts. I am not forcing anyone to agree with me - all I am doing is speaking my mind.

also, all you are doing is judging them for expressing their opinion. if they say it looks like a duck and walks like a duck it is likely that it is a duck, maybe you should just respect that. thats how a REAL fan should act. i automatically think the girl is lying and full of shit.

do you feel the same?

Two, regarding my criticism of those who are judging Ben - I am criticizing the automatic assumption of Ben's guilt by some people here, before everything about the case is known, evidence provided or charges filed.

...because i feel there is also an automatic assumption that the girl is lying and ben has been victimized.

and who are you to say what sports should or should not be? for ben it is a career. for others , it is a hobby, and others a way of life. it is very likely that sports mean more to you than you are willing to let on.

maybe you shouldnt take other fans opinions so seriously. :noidea: it seems to really get to you. remember... all of this is just a diversion.

SteelersinCA
03-11-2010, 07:09 PM
none of us are out there solving world hunger, now are we.


Speak for yourself pal! *jingles his unicef box of coins*

Prok
03-11-2010, 07:14 PM
i know this situation sucks, but it will blow over before too long. granted ben shoulda never opened his mouth to the cops, but the good thing is he keeps good company who know that loose lips sink ships.

i gotta give a hand to the job his attorney is doing. its pretty obvious if what is accused is true, there would be loads of evidence. i have a feeling this case will be wadded up and tossed off the judges dockett. lets be real, here. its not like 2 people were left dead in the street, as ben and his entourage fled in a stretch limo hummer.

all i ask is that ben use his head more in the future.

haha.

:thumbsup:

supa_fly_steeler
03-11-2010, 07:20 PM
if ben is found guilty this is all i ask for -- that bens penis be cut off and be placed in the facility as a monument to his 2 super bowls and 2 sex accusations.... and so he cant do it no more if he is guilty...

that is all.

X-Terminator
03-11-2010, 07:37 PM
also, all you are doing is judging them for expressing their opinion. if they say it looks like a duck and walks like a duck it is likely that it is a duck, maybe you should just respect that. thats how a REAL fan should act. i automatically think the girl is lying and full of shit.

do you feel the same?

...because i feel there is also an automatic assumption that the girl is lying and ben has been victimized.

and who are you to say what sports should or should not be? for ben it is a career. for others , it is a hobby, and others a way of life. it is very likely that sports mean more to you than you are willing to let on.

maybe you shouldnt take other fans opinions so seriously. :noidea: it seems to really get to you. remember... all of this is just a diversion.

Where the hell did this turn into me not respecting people's opinions? I'm not allowed to express myself here all of a sudden? Just because I disagree with someone's viewpoint doesn't mean I don't respect it! I am NOT trying to force anyone here to agree with me, which you obviously are implying that I'm doing.

No, sports do not mean any more to me than what I have said here. I support my teams, I root for my teams and I criticize my teams, but they are not the end all and be all in my life. I do not live and die with what some jock does on a football field, baseball field or hockey rink. I do not get so upset that I throw things or be a miserable bastard all week. Sports are just not important enough to me to have that kind of reaction. It's just how I am, and yes, that's how I feel it should be in general. If that makes me bad, then so be it. I'm not changing my mind on it.

tony hipchest
03-11-2010, 07:44 PM
Where the hell did this turn into me not respecting people's opinions? I'm not allowed to express myself here all of a sudden? Just because I disagree with someone's viewpoint doesn't mean I don't respect it! I am NOT trying to force anyone here to agree with me, which you obviously are implying that I'm doing.

No, sports do not mean any more to me than what I have said here. I support my teams, I root for my teams and I criticize my teams, but they are not the end all and be all in my life. I do not live and die with what some jock does on a football field, baseball field or hockey rink. I do not get so upset that I throw things or be a miserable bastard all week. Sports are just not important enough to me to have that kind of reaction. It's just how I am, and yes, that's how I feel it should be in general. If that makes me bad, then so be it. I'm not changing my mind on it.sorry to upset you, officer. :salute:

(damn, talk about melodramatic....)

I'm not allowed to express myself here all of a sudden? by all means, feel free to express yourself. youre just doing it all wrong. in general it should be done much better. it reeks of bandwagonism, and spoiled fandom... :rolleyes:

Prok
03-11-2010, 07:49 PM
Anyone else here still highly upset and hoping against hope that Ben is innocent ??

Maybe i'm too attached to this team and player emotionally ?

Hey, just show me where the f'n "OFF" button is, ya don't have to reply.

Thx in advance.

:tt:

Gnutella
03-11-2010, 08:21 PM
People are prone to rapid mood swings when they're drunk, especially women.

TheWarDen86
03-11-2010, 08:35 PM
People are prone to rapid mood swings when they're drunk, especially women.

Maybe it wasn't sexual assault at all then:

Scenario: Ben was in the ladies room thinking he was gonna get a lil' somethin'-somethin', but she said NO! So, Ben didn't push the issue....but he DID "Snooki" her ass.

:noidea:

HometownGal
03-11-2010, 08:55 PM
People are prone to rapid mood swings when they're drunk, especially women.

You got me there Gnu. When I'm imbibing, which is a rare occasion, I do have "mood" swings. :naughty: :wink:

I think we all need to take a step back here and wait until the GBI and podunktown 5-0 finish their investigation instead of speculating what happened. At this point, there are really only 2 people who know the absolute truth of what really happened - the chick and Ben.

The legal eagle in me and my parents instilling the "never make accusations unless you are 100% certain" mantra into me during my childhood cause me to stay in the "wait and see" mode and not make a rush to judgment until all of the cards are laid out on the table. I apologize if that offends anyone, but it is what it is. Whether I agree with the gazillion conflicting opinions contained in this thread or not , I respect everyone's thoughts. I have personally met several of you over this past year when you've been in town and discussing differing viewpoints face to face over lunch, dinner and a couple of brewskis is quite different than reading words on an internet BB which can be misconstrued.

If Ben is cleared in this matter, I will be quite relieved but if he is found guilty of what he is accused of, I will become a contortionist and kick myself in the ass and hope that the Steelers do what they feel is best for the team and organization as a whole, no matter what the consequences to Ben. If he made his bed, he should be made to lay in it.

Godfather
03-11-2010, 08:55 PM
Anyone else here still highly upset and hoping against hope that Ben is innocent ??

Absolutely.

mesaSteeler
03-11-2010, 09:25 PM
Commenting on Roethlisberger
http://www.observer-reporter.com/www/sidelines/index.html
F. Dale Lolley, the Observer-Reporter's veteran Steelers beat reporter, provides an inside view for Pittsburgh and the rest of the National Football League.

One week later, we're still not sure what happened between Ben Roethlisberger and a 20-year-old woman in the bathroom of a bar in Georgia.

But what we do know is this.

A. Roethlisberger has been pretty much found guilty in the court of public opinion.

B. No charges have yet been filed.

C. Everyone has an opinion about the situation.

I have put off commenting on the sexual assault charges lodged against Roethlisberger while waiting to see the evidence. But since it seems not to be forthcoming at this time, I feel I cannot wait any longer.

At this point, Roethlisberger is guilty of poor judgment, nothing else. While a number of people in Pittsburgh and elsewhere are calling for the NFL to suspend him and the Steelers to cut or trade him, the bottom line is that he hasn't even been charged with a crime.

Nor was he charged with a crime last summer when a Reno, Nevada woman claimed he raped her in a hotel room. Instead of filing criminal charges in that case, the woman filed a civil case, making it appear money was her main motivation.

That should have been the only life lesson that Roethlisberger needed. But he's a young guy in the prime of his life. He's famous. And I'm sure there are plenty of women out there who are willing to sleep with him just because he's rich and famous.

Does that mean he should hop in the sack with every one? Nope. There are some women out there who likely see him as nothing more than a big paycheck.

I'm not saying his accuser in Georgia is one of them. But many are automatically assuming that since she went directly to the police after the alleged event, she had no ulterior motive.

Maybe they should ask Jerome Bettis about that.

Bettis, you'll remember, was once accused of forcing a young lady to perform a sex act on him outside a Greensburg bar. She immediately went to the police.

It later turned out she had been put up to the whole thing by a relative who figured they could get a payoff out of Bettis.

Here's what we've been able to ascertain about the current case.

Roethlisberger, who owns a home in the area of this Georgia bar, has been known to go into that bar during the offseason.

Roethlisberger at this bar with a number of friends, among them Steelers offensive lineman Willie Colon and two off-duty Pennsylvania police officers.

His party was joined by a group of co-eds from a nearby college.

Something happened, in the women's bathroom of this bar between Roethlisberger and the young lady.

KDKA TV reports that "sources" tell them that Roethlisberger had admitted contact with the woman but said there was no intercourse.

The woman, meanwhile, went to a local hospital afterward to be treated for injuries.

According to the KDKA report, those same "sources" tell them that Roethlisberger said the woman fell and hit her head.

I have a great deal of respect for KDKA, but their information is third-hand. I'm sure they have vetted these sources, but unless they have seen a report from Roethlisberger's interview - which at some point will be made public if charges are filed - I have to treat them with some skepticism.

As for the argument that the 28-year-old Roethlisberger should not be hanging out at a college bar, I defy anyone who was single at 28 to tell me they never went to a bar that had a younger crowd.

Those people argue that it's "creepy." Again, would it be "creepy" had this alleged incident happened at a martini lounge populated by 40-something cougars?

It makes me question Roethlisberger's judgment, but it's not damning material.

I've also heard the argument put forth a number of times that somebody knew somebody who knew somebody else that said Roethlisberger wouldn't sign an autograph for them. Therefore, he's a jerk and guilty.

Nonsense. I've seen Roethlisberger be gracious. I've seen him be a jerk.

The bottom line is that I don't know him any more than he knows me. I may be around him more than the general public, but that doesn't mean I know him by any stretch of the imagination.

There are some Steelers players who are a little more friendly with the media that others. Roethlisberger is not one of them. Does that make him a bad guy? I don't know because I really don't know him.

Anyone in the media who does claim to know him is either stupid or fooling themselves.

The Steelers are upset that Roethlisberger is having yet another public incident. They thought he learned his lesson the last time.

People have also claimed that because Roethlisberger has hired a high-priced, high-profile attorney that he must be guilty. Ditto his leaving of the state and his lawyer's denial of giving a DNA sample.

With so much to lose, why wouldn't he hire a high-profile attorney? I know that Ben Matlock may have gotten better play in Georgia, but he wasn't available.

And any good attorney would delay having a client give DNA or an official statement as long as possible. It's just what they do. It neither proves nor disproves guilt.

So let's let the dust settle and wait and see if criminal charges are ever brought forth before we convict Roethlisberger of - at this point - anything more than poor judgment.

posted by Dale Lolley at 5:41 PM 9 Comments Links to this post

mesaSteeler
03-11-2010, 09:36 PM
Roethlisberger's in More Trouble Than You Think

3/11/2010 1:15 PM ET By Clay Travis
http://nfl.fanhouse.com/2010/03/11/big-bens-in-more-trouble-than-you-think/
o Clay Travis
o Clay Travis is a Writer for FanHouse
Clay Travis a licensed attorney and graduate of Vanderbilt Law School.

Ben RoethlisbergerJudging by the relatively tame media coverage associated with Ben Roethlisberger's alleged sexual assault down in Georgia, you'd think that the case isn't that serious.

You'd be wrong.

Big Ben is in a huge mess, one that could potentially keep him off the field this upcoming season and more. As a lawyer, it's amazing to me that this story hasn't gotten more attention than it has. Given that Big Ben is one of the 20 most famous players in the NFL, a two-time Super Bowl winner, and the quarterback of one of the five most popular teams in the most popular sport in American history, the relative lack of solid analysis is astounding.

Particularly in our heightened media environment when merely cheating on your wife can lead the news cycle for months. The comparative media silence is deafening.

I think that's partly because people don't realize the seriousness of these allegations or the penalties that could ensue.

I spent the past two days on the phone with Georgia lawyers -- public defenders and district attorneys -- the men and women who would typically defend or prosecute criminal cases in Georgia courts to discuss the particulars of this incident. Here's what I learned.

1. First and foremost, per those lawyers, it's time to examine the city of Milledgeville and Baldwin County in Georgia. This is not the place where you want charges brought against you if you're an NFL star.

In fact, there may not be a worse place to be accused of committing a sexual assault in the country than a small town in the South.

Often jurors end up siding with whichever party they can identify with best. Here, do you think they'll have more in common with a local college girl or with a yankee, multi-million dollar quarterback?
Here are some demographics for you from the 2000 census: 18,757 people live in Milledgeville, the county seat of Baldwin county. Those city natives have an average household income of just $30,484. As for the county of Baldwin, the population expands, but not much, to just 46,057 people in the county.

From this, the jury pool would be drawn.

The population in the county is 54 percent white, 46 percent black.

This is a rural, mostly poor, county. Big Ben's lawyers already know that if charges are filed they'll attempt to move the case to another jurisdiction arguing that the jury pool in Baldwin County has been tainted and their client can't get a fair trial. They'll believe that, but they'll also be scrambling to get their client before a better jury pool.

Currently Ben Roethlisberger is halfway through a $102 million contract.

You think he's going to draw a lot of sympathy from a small town jury?

2. In criminal cases, celebrities want to be in cities on the coasts, where, surprisingly, jurors are more prone to deferring to celebrity status.

Recall, Mike Tyson went away to prison after being convicted of rape in a conservative city – Indianapolis, Ind. Big Ben's lawyers would do cartwheels if this incident had occurred in Indianapolis, instead of a tiny Georgia town. Even conservative city jurors like those in Indianapolis are more likely to be lenient than conservative small-town jurors who are facing -- and this is key -- an outsider who has come into their state, city, and town and is alleged to have taken advantage of one of their own.

Often jurors end up siding with whichever party they can identify with best.

Here, do you think they'll have more in common with a local college girl or with a yankee, multi-million dollar quarterback?

Yeah, thought so.

That's why Big Ben should be so nervous.

3. Both sides are lawyering up in expectation that this case is going to last a while.

Big Ben went with a big-city lawyer from Atlanta who has done well litigating criminal cases in the city. Often big city lawyers rub local jurors the wrong way. So, as this case proceeds and if charges are brought, look for Big Ben to also retain local criminal defense counsel.

Meanwhile, the victim retained counsel from a small Atlanta firm.

Why would the victim retain counsel already? Because she's going to file a civil lawsuit against Big Ben regardless of what happens with the criminal investigation.

That means this case, criminal and civil, is likely going to last ... a long time.

Recall that Kobe Bryant eventually settled his Colorado rape case after the criminal case ended because the victim refused to testify. Even when the criminal case against him crumbled, Bryant still paid out to settle the civil case.

Now's probably a good time to give a quick refresher; criminal cases are brought and prosecuted by the state whereas civil cases are brought by individuals or corporations. The penalty for criminal cases is imprisonment; the penalty in civil cases is typically monetary.

O.J. SimpsonThe primary difference between the two avenues of the law comes in the amount of evidence required to find a defendant culpable. Criminal cases require guilty beyond a reasonable doubt; civil cases only require that someone is liable according to the preponderance of the evidence, a more likely than not standard. The best athlete example of this duality is O.J. Simpson, who was found innocent for the murders in his criminal trial, but was still civilly liable for the duo's death.

So even if Big Ben can dodge criminal sanctions, he's still going to have to answer for his actions in a civil context.

4. Parse the purported victim's statement released yesterday to see the battle lines already being drawn.

Here is the statement:

"Their daughter has done the right thing and reported this matter to the police. She has been, and will be, available to the authorities to assist them in the criminal investigation. While the matter is under investigation, we ask you to respect her privacy, keep her name out of the press and allow the family space and time to heal."

What's the second word in this statement?

Daughter.

Did you even notice that on your first reading?

The victim's lawyers are already attempting to define this girl as a daughter. Why? Because we all have or know daughters, and the idea of a daughter being attacked makes our blood boil. Conversely, as this case moves forward, the defense counsel will be attempting to define this "daughter" as a money-hungry, party girl who sought out Big Ben and got what she was after.

Why?

Because money-hungry party girls are more prone to make up stories.

And we're going to have a public relations duel over this girl's image before all is said and done.

Doubt me.

Go back and reread what Kobe Bryant's lawyers did to his accuser in Colorado.

5. Who is the real Ben Roethlisberger?

It's not just the victim who is going to attempt to define herself, it's the man who she alleges assaulted her as well.

Is this man a deviant sexual predator, as the prosecutors or civil plaintiffs will allege, or is he just a regular guy, a momma's boy who loves his sisters?

Kobe BryantExpect his lawyers to immediately make efforts to strip away his celebrity identity and define him as something other than a quarterback. Whenever he speaks on this incident, and he will speak, it's likely that Big Ben's family will need to be present at his statement.

Why?

Because Big Ben is a son and brother, too. He'll want his mother and sister there with him because he's not married and doesn't have any other family members to vouch for his regular guy status.

Recall that Kobe Bryant, when he denied raping his accuser, sat alongside his wife. Later, his children made an appearance at the press conference.

That was by design.

In he-said, she-said cases, the difficult minefield of sexual encounters, our perceptions of the men and women involved in the case often govern our beliefs as to what happened between the two.

6. The hospital report will decide what charges, if any, are brought in a criminal case.

The most difficult of all criminal cases is a he-said, she-said battle.

Why?

Because there are only two direct witnesses to an incident, someone's story has to more true than someone else's.

But how do authorities determine whose word to trust, and perhaps more importantly, whose word they can convince a jury to believe?

They rely on the hospital report provided in the immediate moments after an alleged sexual assault.

Same here.

This report will be the single most important piece of evidence, and the witnesses associated with the report will be the most important other than the two parties in question.

7. Will the NFL be forced to act under the personal conduct policy?

I think so.

Why?

Because we have a pattern of allegations relating to Big Ben's sexual misconduct. While the previous case alleging rape was a civil lawsuit, the alleged misconduct is disturbing enough that, in conjunction with this allegation, Big Ben has violated the terms of the NFL's nebulous policy.

Keep in mind that the NFL has adopted a misguided policy where mere guilt or innocence is insufficient to keep a player from punishment. The mere perception of a pattern of wrongful action is sufficient to bring punishment. That's why regardless of what ultimately ends up happening in this case, Big Ben is going to be suspended by the league.

******

As we wait for more details of this alleged sexual assault to emerge, keep in mind the seven points listed above. They provide a good road map for where this incident is heading, and let you know that this case is even more serious than the media has suggested so far.