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SteelersJW
03-10-2010, 05:48 AM
In the case that Ben is suspended by the NFL, even if he is not convicted of anything, who will be our QB while he sits out?

Has Dennis Dixon shown enough, is Charlie Batch planning to stay around, should we bring in a free agent, or will the Steelers pick up someone in the draft?

Tell me your thoughts

pete74
03-10-2010, 05:52 AM
if he isnt convicted or charged he better not be suspended. personally i feel ben will not be found guilty because his law team is way to good and educated to let him be but if he does miss i have faith in dixon. he was a great college QB at oregon and i think he can be decent in the nfl

aclark99
03-10-2010, 08:07 AM
Dixon did well last year against the Ravens, however the only concern I would have with Dixon is that he doesn't have enough starting experience. He only started one year at Oregon. If Ben is suspended, I think the FO needs to bring in a quality veteren such as a Derek Anderson, Jake Delhomme, or possibly trade Sweed for Leftwich and a low round draft pick. Ben needs to stop putting himself in situations that can be negative for him and the organization. If Ben is charged or convicted, he will not be a Steeler very long. Rooney's will not put up with this kind of behavior and they shouldn't based on the amount of cash that he is receiving.

supa_fly_steeler
03-10-2010, 08:12 AM
Dixon did well last year against the Ravens, however the only concern I would have with Dixon is that he doesn't have enough starting experience. He only started one year at Oregon. If Ben is suspended, I think the FO needs to bring in a quality veteren such as a Derek Anderson, Jake Delhomme, or possibly trade Sweed for Leftwich and a low round draft pick. Ben needs to stop putting himself in situations that can be negative for him and the organization. If Ben is charged or convicted, he will not be a Steeler very long. Rooney's will not put up with this kind of behavior and they shouldn't based on the amount of cash that he is receiving.

i doubt that they would release him.... maybe fine him alot of money... we wont go anywhere without ben,.

BigBen'sSwagger
03-10-2010, 08:18 AM
I got no problem going with Dixon. He showed me enough promise last year to feel he will be the guy we need if anything happens to Ben.

vrabinec
03-10-2010, 08:22 AM
Cut and pasted this from what I posted on the Derek Anderson thread:

If he's charged, the Rooney's will have to act immediately. They don't have the luxury of waiting around to see whether he's gonna be convicted and sent to jail. IMO, they will try to trade him and fail, and then they'll release him (IF HE'S CHARGED). In that case, we have no choice but to start looking for competition for DD. I like Anderson better than any of the other QB's out there. He was in a crappy spot in Cleveland and would have more receivers than he's ever had, and the same lousy protection. Also, we would have to look at drafting a QB, which we were probably already going to to do replace Batch. And, with Ben gone, that would free up a ton of cap room for whatever the eventual cap will be when football resumes after this season, so we could do something radical for this team like trade away this year's first and next year's first to move up to get Bradford.

aclark99
03-10-2010, 08:25 AM
The Steelers organization is the classiest organization in the NFL. The Steelers do not welcome or standby troubled players such as Ben i.e. if Ben gets charged with the sexual assault. I am for the Steelers dropping Ben if he did the sexual assault. At this point in time, can the Steelers or the fans depend on Ben? He is a drama queen and seems to be a trouble maker. Ben needs to get married and hopefully this will all stop.

BigBen'sSwagger
03-10-2010, 08:38 AM
Getting married is the LAST thing Ben needs. What Ben needs is to be sat down with Rooney, Tomlin and Vick and or Plex to explain to Ben about the consequences of making big mistakes. I am not saying Ben is guilty or innocent of anything but he needs someone to convince him to make better lifestyle decisions. If Ben gets married I can see a Tiger effect come into play.

The biggest let down is not us fans, or the organization it is his team mates and they need to get behind him and help him straighten his image out and I'm not exactly sure how you do that other than to have a straight up talk with him.

Steeldude
03-10-2010, 09:04 AM
how long would the suspension be? 4 games? derek anderson, delhomme, garcia....

vrabinec
03-10-2010, 09:16 AM
how long would the suspension be? 4 games? derek anderson, delhomme, garcia....

Two ways he would get suspended, the first is if he's just charged and not convicted, the second is if he's charged and convicted. If he's charged and not convicted, then IMO the Rooney's would most likely suspend him until his trial was over. If not, then Goodell might suspend him indefinitely until his trial is over. I don't see the league just saying that he's suspended for 4 games before they know whether he's guilty or not, because, what do they do if he's convicted and not sentenced? Give him a second suspension? That would sound like he's getting punished twice for the same offence. Seeing as how he has a past history of legal issues, I think they go with the indefinitely. So, the legal procedure might take a year. IMO, if he's charged, he's not playing football this year. Of course, if he's convicted, then he'll miss this year, because he'll be in court and then he'll miss another 1-5 years in jail. Doubt there would be a suspension after that.

OneForTheToe
03-10-2010, 09:19 AM
Two ways he would get suspended, the first is if he's just charged and not convicted, the second is if he's charged and convicted. If he's charged and not convicted, then IMO the Rooney's would most likely suspend him until his trial was over. If not, then Goodell might suspend him indefinitely until his trial is over. I don't see the league just saying that he's suspended for 4 games before they know whether he's guilty or not, because, what do they do if he's convicted and not sentenced? Give him a second suspension? That would sound like he's getting punished twice for the same offence. Seeing as how he has a past history of legal issues, I think they go with the indefinitely. So, the legal procedure might take a year. IMO, if he's charged, he's not playing football this year. Of course, if he's convicted, then he'll miss this year, because he'll be in court and then he'll miss another 1-5 years in jail. Doubt there would be a suspension after that.


The Rooneys can only suspend him for four games, I believe.

vrabinec
03-10-2010, 09:21 AM
The Rooneys can only suspend him for four games, I believe.

Even if he's charged with a felony? I'm pretty sure he's got a conduct clause that pretty much puts him at their mercy if he gets charged with a felony. Definitely gives them the right to void the contract.

scsteeler
03-10-2010, 09:26 AM
Dixon did well last year against the Ravens, however the only concern I would have with Dixon is that he doesn't have enough starting experience. He only started one year at Oregon. If Ben is suspended, I think the FO needs to bring in a quality veteren such as a Derek Anderson, Jake Delhomme, or possibly trade Sweed for Leftwich and a low round draft pick. Ben needs to stop putting himself in situations that can be negative for him and the organization. If Ben is charged or convicted, he will not be a Steeler very long. Rooney's will not put up with this kind of behavior and they shouldn't based on the amount of cash that he is receiving.



If for some reason Ben is not able to play. (Which I don't see this happening) Dixon will get that Starting experience like any other QB by playing. I have faith in the FO that the best decision will be made to make this team the best.

Glad we fans don't have control of what goes on. It is always easy to make statements about what you would do and not do when you are not directly responsible. That is why the Head Coach, Assistant Coaches, & QB take so much criticism for what happens on and off the field.

OneForTheToe
03-10-2010, 09:34 AM
Even if he's charged with a felony? I'm pretty sure he's got a conduct clause that pretty much puts him at their mercy if he gets charged with a felony. Definitely gives them the right to void the contract.

Regardless I am pretty sure the CBA only allows teams to suspend a player for four games. The Commish is under no such limitations, of course.

Now, getting rid of Ben and his contract is a different issue (and more than a bit premature). Although, it would probably end up in court, because the players argue in these situations that they have already earned the guaranteed monies they are owed.

Shoes
03-10-2010, 09:49 AM
I like Dixon and I'd take Jeff Garcia over Anderson / Delhomme.

+NuBbS+
03-10-2010, 09:49 AM
i just wanna say, the steelers are not going to cut or trade ben. reason being is that his style of play turns a bad team into a competitor. so that talk can get thrown out. as for suspension by the team or the league, i see that as more possible than to trade or cut him. 4 games? i can live with dennis dixon under center. all this would do is wake ben up and say if i mess up one more time i'm out of this town which is definitely something that he doesnt want to do. especially if dixon comes in a tears it up which he is capable of doing.

Vincent
03-10-2010, 09:51 AM
I watched the first rats game last night again. Dennis played that game with 24 hours notice and real prep to start. It was unbelievable. That kid has the tools, and more importantly the mental toughness to not only succeed, but star in the NFL. He's every bit as elusive as Ben, but has that "X factor" Korky had early in his career. He can take off like a shot. We saw that sevaral times - the rats looked like they were just standing there helpless. He made pass plays in succession that completed drives.

I have no concerns about Dennis running the offense. Imagine how good he'd be if he was actually prepared and was in the "groove" of starting week in and week out.

Now, getting rid of Ben and his contract is a different issue (and more than a bit premature). Although, it would probably end up in court, because the players argue in these situations that they have already earned the guaranteed monies they are owed.

Ben for Jason Campbell and the Skins' #1. Mr Snyder'd jump on that.

vrabinec
03-10-2010, 09:51 AM
Regardless I am pretty sure the CBA only allows teams to suspend a player for four games. The Commish is under no such limitations, of course.

Now, getting rid of Ben and his contract is a different issue (and more than a bit premature). Although, it would probably end up in court, because the players argue in these situations that they have already earned the guaranteed monies they are owed.

You think it would be premature to release him if he's charged? I'm not so sure. What are they supposed to do in the mean time? He'd be in and out of court, the thing would be hanging over every practice, every telecast, every word that's spoken about the Steelers, just like it is now, and all the while there's the possibility that he might go to jail, and the Steelers appeared to "stick up" for a guy who, if convicted, will be considered not only a sexual assaulter, but a rapist. You talking about a collossal cluster fark. MAYBE they wait to see what the consent among the fans is, but there's a tendency among fans to want to keep players at first when players are charged, but then, as the facts come out and the prosecution builds their case, the fans turn on not only the player, but the organization. I'm telling you, ig he's charged with this, then I don't see the Rooney's wanting the Steeler organization associated with the acts that come out of the prosecution's side, because the prosecution will be trying everything they can to paint him in as insidious a way as possible, because THEIR asses will be on the line at that point. They'll paint Ben every color of vile wretch, you know the fat millionaire 30 year-old who thinks money can buy the innocent, sweet little 19 year-old coed. It will be a circus, and IMO the Rooneys will opt out and cut ties.

zulater
03-10-2010, 10:04 AM
Four words vrab. Paid leave of absense.

vrabinec
03-10-2010, 10:38 AM
Four words vrab. Paid leave of absense.

Are you talkin' about me or Ben? You know how optimistic I am by nature...

Dino 6 Rings
03-10-2010, 10:58 AM
Maybe we can get Vick, he doesn't have as much baggage at this point.

Geezus effing Kristmas on a Cracker!!!

BritishSteel
03-10-2010, 11:10 AM
If he's suspended, there's nothing to suggest they won't go with Dixon - they had no problem throwing Ben in when Maddox got injured. It's what they do as far as cover's concerned - do they draft a QB as cover in the second day? Do they look to trade one of the 5th round picks and say Sweed for a decent NFL back-up somewhere else? Do they make an offer to Batch and hope he stays healthy?

I think the main thing that comes out of this is that we need to hope he isn't charged.

scsteeler
03-10-2010, 12:03 PM
I like Dixon and I'd take Jeff Garcia over Anderson / Delhomme.


I agree!! I would take anyone over Delhomme. I think the Steeler are fine at QB. Until something happens though Ben is the guy and that is the way the FO will approach it until something says otherwise.

atlsteelers
03-10-2010, 12:25 PM
i would take my lumps with dixon. see if he is a franchise type qb. i am really happy that he has had a chance to learn and watch the game early in his career. if troy comes back and we get some improved play from our corners we can ride our defense much like we did in ben's rookie season.

Big D
03-10-2010, 02:40 PM
my thought is this. I'm sure the rooneys and tomlin have already had conversations with colon and ben. I think if the conversations werent assuring we would already have a plan b signed or traded for already. There is no way this organization would put a super bowl caliber team in the hands of dennis dixon

pete74
03-10-2010, 02:42 PM
my thought is this. I'm sure the rooneys and tomlin have already had conversations with colon and ben. I think if the conversations werent assuring we would already have a plan b signed or traded for already. There is no way this organization would be a super bowl caliber team in the hands of dennis dixon

nor were we with kordell stewert or bubby brister yet we stuck with them for years

Big D
03-10-2010, 02:53 PM
nor were we with kordell stewert or bubby brister yet we stuck with them for years

I would say there was a little more loyalty to those two then there is with dixon. Plus it's a win now league. Let's say for a minute ben is charged, and then convicted. 3 losing seasons and Tomlin more then likely is fired.

pete74
03-10-2010, 02:55 PM
true. it would be a tough time to lose him because there really isnt any good qb's in the draft at 18 and there isnt any on the market. we would be in a tough situation if we lost ben and i pray it dosnt happen

steelreserve
03-10-2010, 03:00 PM
You think it would be premature to release him if he's charged? I'm not so sure. What are they supposed to do in the mean time? He'd be in and out of court, the thing would be hanging over every practice, every telecast, every word that's spoken about the Steelers, just like it is now, and all the while there's the possibility that he might go to jail, and the Steelers appeared to "stick up" for a guy who, if convicted, will be considered not only a sexual assaulter, but a rapist. You talking about a collossal cluster fark. MAYBE they wait to see what the consent among the fans is, but there's a tendency among fans to want to keep players at first when players are charged, but then, as the facts come out and the prosecution builds their case, the fans turn on not only the player, but the organization. I'm telling you, ig he's charged with this, then I don't see the Rooney's wanting the Steeler organization associated with the acts that come out of the prosecution's side, because the prosecution will be trying everything they can to paint him in as insidious a way as possible, because THEIR asses will be on the line at that point. They'll paint Ben every color of vile wretch, you know the fat millionaire 30 year-old who thinks money can buy the innocent, sweet little 19 year-old coed. It will be a circus, and IMO the Rooneys will opt out and cut ties.

Did the Lakers panic and get rid of Kobe Bryant during his little incident? No, because he was too important to the team.

Also, with sex-crime cases like this, it's pretty well understood that nobody knows what the hell the truth really is until the trial is over, if we ever know. DUI coming home from a strip club? Shots fired after the ever-popular "nightclub altercation involving members of your entourage?" Pretty cut-and-dry. Sex assault case with sparse details? A lot more murky.

So I don't think the team would be appearing to "cut him slack" or anything by taking an attitude of wait-and-see-what-the-courts-say.

Besides, a franchise QB comes along once in a blue moon, and you would feel incredibly stupid if you cut yours in a knee-jerk reaction, only to have the legal proceedings turn out to be nothing, and then he goes and wins two more Super Bowls for the Cowboys.

So .. yeah, I don't see the Steelers doing anything that drastic. But as far as a suspension from the league, this IS Roger Goodell we're talking about, so I wouldn't be shocked.

vrabinec
03-10-2010, 03:24 PM
Did the Lakers panic and get rid of Kobe Bryant during his little incident? No, because he was too important to the team.

Couple things different about that. It was Kobe's first offense, and he was a bilingual pillar of the community type, whereas Ben has a history and doesn't exactly have the image Kobe had. Even then, the girld was the one who dropped the charges. The prosecution was going ahead with it. Most people believe he cut a deal with the girl and paid her off. Or, as the CNN article said:

The 26-year-old Los Angeles Lakers guard issued a written apology that stopped short of taking responsibility for his actions.

“Although I truly believe this encounter between us was consensual, I recognize now that she did not and does not view this incident the same way I did,” he said.

Meaning, he talked to her, she thought she was raped, he didn't agree, whatever. This being Ben's second offense, even if he eventually makes a statement like the one Kobe did, the Steeler franchise is tarnished. Remember how Kobe had to take time off here and there to rush to court? Can you imagine the same thing happenning with the Steelers? We're preparing for the Ravens, but Ben has to fly down to Georgia for the week to sit in court. Besides, Kobe's contract was guaranteed. As long as he wasn't convicted, I doubt the Lakers could have done anything. The portion of Ben's contract that was guaranteed has already been paid out. It would be easier for the team to ties. I dunno, maybe you're right, but I don't see any good outcome if he's charged. If he's not charged, we're in the clear. Maybe he gets a slap on the wrist from Goodell.

Galax Steeler
03-11-2010, 03:35 AM
I say get Jake Delhomme if we can't have him then I would say give Dixon a shot. It is about time we let him play some but I am hoping it is because we are way ahead in a game instead of Ben being suspended.

Venom
03-11-2010, 06:13 AM
Why go out and get a QB . We have a QB that threw a TD pass in SuperBowl XL . Randel El can get it done !!!!! :banging::thumbsup:

SteelGhost
03-11-2010, 05:20 PM
DD is the 2nd. QB in the roster, so he can sub BR if he's suspended 4 games without a problem IMHO. Tomlin has to ask Brucey to adequate an offensive game plan according to DD skills and we'll be fine :noidea:

Prok
03-11-2010, 05:35 PM
I don't want to start a bash Arians campaign again...... But if you guys think he can gameplan around a QB less talented than Ben you're nuts IMO.

My expectations would DROP. And drop considerably without Ben in the line-up.

SteelGhost
03-11-2010, 05:44 PM
I don't want to start a bash Arians campaign again...... But if you guys think he can gameplan around a QB less talented than Ben you're nuts IMO.

My expectations would DROP. And drop considerably without Ben in the line-up.

Nope, I'm not "nuts" Prok, I'm just an optimistic Steeler fan who is giving an opinion, so I expect you can respect that.

Of course DD is not as talented as BR is, but IMO he's a better option than bringing D. Anderson or J. Delhomme.

Psyychoward86
03-11-2010, 05:52 PM
Nope, I'm not "nuts" Prok, I'm just an optimistic Steeler fan who is giving an opinion, so I expect you can respect that.

Of course DD is not as talented as BR is, but IMO he's a better option than bringing D. Anderson or J. Delhomme.

there's a difference between optimistic and realistic. Arians is just a bonehead who wouldnt get it done

SteelGhost
03-11-2010, 06:03 PM
]there's a difference between optimistic and realistic.[/B] Arians is just a bonehead who wouldnt get it done

I know the difference Psyycho, believe me :wink02: But I'm a "half full glass" kind of guy, despite of the fact that Brucey is a bonehead, if he is without BR he and Tomlin have to do something to face the situation, that includes to try a gameplan for DD IMHO.

Prok
03-11-2010, 06:35 PM
Nope, I'm not "nuts" Prok, I'm just an optimistic Steeler fan who is giving an opinion, so I expect you can respect that.

Of course DD is not as talented as BR is, but IMO he's a better option than bringing D. Anderson or J. Delhomme.

I fully respect your opinion. Sorry if i came off as if i didn't. And i'm even enjoying this discussion.

But imo there's no way in hell we can expect BA to gameplan around not having Ben at his disposal. I'll even concede that DD was not all that bad and BA DID have some creative plays called for his talents in that ratbird game.

But in my view, and i'm sure i'm not alone here, asking BA to consistantly put a gameplan together that would be a winning formula for us is just un-realistic.

The man is simply not that good of a play-caller. In fact i'd be willing to guarantee that he would be fired after next season as all of his play-calling weaknesses would be exposed fairly quickly without the franchise QB.

You could quote me on it too. If i'm wrong, i'll gladly eat my words.

But i'm tellin' ya.... THIS Steelers offense without Ben? My expectations drop considerably.

KYsteelfan
03-11-2010, 06:43 PM
I fully respect your opinion. Sorry if i came off as if i didn't. And i'm even enjoying this discussion.

But imo there's no way in hell we can expect BA to gameplan around not having Ben at his disposal. I'll even concede that DD was not all that bad and BA DID have some creative plays called for his talents in that ratbird game.

But in my view, and i'm sure i'm not alone here, asking BA to consistantly put a gameplan together that would be a winning formula for us is just un-realistic.

The man is simply not that good of a play-caller. In fact i'd be willing to guarantee that he would be fired after next season as all of his play-calling weaknesses would be exposed fairly quickly without the franchise QB.

You could quote me on it too. If i'm wrong, i'll gladly eat my words.

But i'm tellin' ya.... THIS Steelers offense without Ben? My expectations drop considerably.

I thought DD played solid in a tough game against a rival, and also top notch defense. he kept us in it the whole way through. so in the unlikely event of a Big ben suspension, i think we'd be ok for a few games

Prok
03-11-2010, 06:53 PM
I thought DD played solid in a tough game against a rival, and also top notch defense. he kept us in it the whole way through. so in the unlikely event of a Big ben suspension, i think we'd be ok for a few games

A few games, maybe. But i was posting in context that if we were to lose Ben altogether i suppose.

But personally my expectations would still be much lower.

BTW after the grief i've been through in recent days i WELCOME a good old fashioned BA debate. Beats the hell out of the alternative! lol

BIGBENFASTWILLIE
03-11-2010, 07:08 PM
We would trade for Vick or McNabb

Shoes
03-11-2010, 07:11 PM
The more DD plays the better he'll be, I have full confidence in him. My fingernails are normal length, I don't chew them over what Ben does. If he's out, so be it . It gives another young man a chance to show he's a pro on and off the field. I've been following this team since the early 1960's. I saw them play at Forbes Field, Pitt Stadium, and
Three Rivers. Steeler football moves on!

ETL
03-11-2010, 07:24 PM
Here are some facts:

1. The steelers are not in rebuilding mode. We should not have a QB (dixon) trying to "get some experience" with a team that should be in position to win a Super Bowl

2. Dennis Dixon is not a Super Bowl caliber qb (this year). The kid may have talent and tools but we need to win now.

3. To me that means we need an experienced QB in here (DA, Garcia, Delhomme, etc. )

chonba
03-11-2010, 07:26 PM
you guys need to learn alittle bit about the criminal justice system....you cannot be "CONVICTED" of a crime until you are CHARGED with a crime which ben has not been charged.....even if some how he does get charged it will take a long time for this case to be decided worry about 2011 if anything

Shoes
03-11-2010, 07:39 PM
Here are some facts:

1. The steelers are not in rebuilding mode. We should not have a QB (dixon) trying to "get some experience" with a team that should be in position to win a Super Bowl

2. Dennis Dixon is not a Super Bowl caliber qb (this year). The kid may have talent and tools but we need to win now.

3. To me that means we need an experienced QB in here (DA, Garcia, Delhomme, etc. )

These are the Facts......

1.We were in a position in 2009 to win the Super Bowl, but we didn't even with Ben...and if I remember correctly, Ben didn't have any "experience" when he had to "step in".

2.How do you know what caliber DD is? He did an outstanding job with less than a week prep time for a super tough game. What do you mean "we have to win now" do you really believe the Steelers are going to win the Super Bowl every year?

3. I can go along with an experienced qb like Garcia, but DD has the tools to start.

ricksteelers55
03-11-2010, 10:43 PM
Am I the only one who is fool enough to think that it doesnt matter who the QB is as long as we bring back our 2008 Defense ? The 2000 Ravens won the Super Bowl with freakin Trent Dilfer and the 2002 Bucs won with Brad Johnson....We only have to fix our D(which I think will be way better than some folks think with the return of 91 and 43) and then if Ben is suspended or whatever fine....we'll find the best option at QB and who knows,maybe we might be able to still win.After all a lot of people in here thought the 2008 Steelers D was as good as any D in the 2000 decade.....

pittguy578
03-11-2010, 11:20 PM
Ben is NOT going to be suspended. I think the girl's story is really falling apart.
People may think Ben has an ego but do they really think he would rape someone in a bathroom with two off duty cops in his entourtage? Hell, if he really wanted to have "relations" with her, he could have kept on feeding her beers and taken her back to his house.

OX1947
03-11-2010, 11:39 PM
I know this may sound funny, but if Ben is charged, he may be done for 2010. Now here is a wild card thought, tell me what you think. Donavon McNabb. Philly is waiting for a team to offer a 1st and change and then at that point give Kolb the position. Steelers are built to win now. McNabb still has 3 or 4 years left, what better way for him to win a super bowl and still be the man but in Pittsburgh with our D and the set of receivers we have.

The pressure will be on the Rooney's to prove that they are who they are. If he is charged, pressure will be on them to release him. This is a good way to back themselves up. If I could, I would offer a 3rd and next years 1 for McNabb. Or this years number to and next years number 2. Otherwise, the steelers are screwed without a Qb. Dixon can not play QB in this league on a consistent basis and all the free agent Qbs this year are horrible.

Curtain_of_Steel
03-12-2010, 08:49 AM
McNabb can not handle the pressure here. No way to Steelers are bringing in another 10mill QB and this one where history dictates, can not get the job done.

DD can run and gun here, Arians although had some nice plays with DD caleld a piss poor game, 3-3 on playactions and never ran another one after the early play in the 2nd half. I'll wing it with DD over bringing in any qb like mcnabb who blames his team for everything they do wrong, even when he tosses 4 ints in a game. Our own players will kill Mcchoke. Besides that he is made of papermeche, he couldn't take getting hit 100 times a season, he would be hurt in the first game.

BB isnt going anywheres. so this is a moot point.

Nadroj 20
03-12-2010, 08:52 AM
I know this may sound funny, but if Ben is charged, he may be done for 2010. Now here is a wild card thought, tell me what you think. Donavon McNabb. Philly is waiting for a team to offer a 1st and change and then at that point give Kolb the position. Steelers are built to win now. McNabb still has 3 or 4 years left, what better way for him to win a super bowl and still be the man but in Pittsburgh with our D and the set of receivers we have.

The pressure will be on the Rooney's to prove that they are who they are. If he is charged, pressure will be on them to release him. This is a good way to back themselves up. If I could, I would offer a 3rd and next years 1 for McNabb. Or this years number to and next years number 2. Otherwise, the steelers are screwed without a Qb. Dixon can not play QB in this league on a consistent basis and all the free agent Qbs this year are horrible.

So....how do you know this?

pete74
03-12-2010, 09:01 AM
i dont see the roonys dropping ben even if charged. they definatly may suspend him but i doubt they would just cut him

vrabinec
03-12-2010, 09:02 AM
So....how do you know this?

Dixon's first start 26 passes and 3 runs for 172 total yards 2 TD's 1 Int 0 sacks
Ben's first start 22 passes 1 rush 165 total yards 1 TD and 1 Int 1 sack.

Clearly, we can deduce from this one game that Dixon can't hold a candle to Ben.

SteelGhost
03-12-2010, 09:29 AM
I fully respect your opinion. Sorry if i came off as if i didn't. And i'm even enjoying this discussion.

But imo there's no way in hell we can expect BA to gameplan around not having Ben at his disposal. I'll even concede that DD was not all that bad and BA DID have some creative plays called for his talents in that ratbird game.

But in my view, and i'm sure i'm not alone here, asking BA to consistantly put a gameplan together that would be a winning formula for us is just un-realistic.

The man is simply not that good of a play-caller. In fact i'd be willing to guarantee that he would be fired after next season as all of his play-calling weaknesses would be exposed fairly quickly without the franchise QB.

You could quote me on it too. If i'm wrong, i'll gladly eat my words.

But i'm tellin' ya.... THIS Steelers offense without Ben? My expectations drop considerably.

We're cool Prok :thumbsup: I'm enjoying this discussion as well, glad to know different opinions came along.

I agree that BA could be out next year, no doubt, I'm not expecting him to get an extension. Maybe I only have a wisfhfull thinking about BA at least trying to do the right thing with DD :chuckle:

Nadroj 20
03-12-2010, 09:37 AM
Dixon's first start 26 passes and 3 runs for 172 total yards 2 TD's 1 Int 0 sacks
Ben's first start 22 passes 1 rush 165 total yards 1 TD and 1 Int 1 sack.

Clearly, we can deduce from this one game that Dixon can't hold a candle to Ben.

What are you saying?

Im saying that based on one game even though it was a pretty good game you cant say DD wont be successful as a NFL QB....

Northside Jonny
03-12-2010, 10:05 AM
I haven't heard this scenario. What do you all think of taking Colt McCoy in the 2nd? If Ben faces a long drawn out trial?

vrabinec
03-12-2010, 10:20 AM
What are you saying?

Im saying that based on one game even though it was a pretty good game you cant say DD wont be successful as a NFL QB....

I'm sayin that DD deserves to get a chance, and to dismiss him off hand like the poster a few posts ago did with Dixon can not play QB in this league on a consistent basis based on what he saw in one game is the same as if the Steelers had dismissed Ben as not being able to play in this league after HIS first game, since they put up very similar stats in their respective first starts. Nobody knows yet if Dixon can play at a top ten QB level, but he didn't disgrace himself in his first start, he has a good arm (stronger than Ben), he is accurate, and he looks like he's beginning to read defenses quicker. There's only one QB in this draft that I really like, and that's Bradford, and he's gonna be gone by the time we pick. I'd rather see what DD has and get a Anderson/Delhomme type to compete with him this year, and then if we have to draft a QB next year, rather than reach for a Colt McCoy in this draft or heaven forbid, trade up to get Clausen.

Nadroj 20
03-12-2010, 10:36 AM
I'm sayin that DD deserves to get a chance, and to dismiss him off hand like the poster a few posts ago did with Dixon can not play QB in this league on a consistent basis based on what he saw in one game is the same as if the Steelers had dismissed Ben as not being able to play in this league after HIS first game, since they put up very similar stats in their respective first starts. Nobody knows yet if Dixon can play at a top ten QB level, but he didn't disgrace himself in his first start, he has a good arm (stronger than Ben), he is accurate, and he looks like he's beginning to read defenses quicker. There's only one QB in this draft that I really like, and that's Bradford, and he's gonna be gone by the time we pick. I'd rather see what DD has and get a Anderson/Delhomme type to compete with him this year, and then if we have to draft a QB next year, rather than reach for a Colt McCoy in this draft or heaven forbid, trade up to get Clausen.

Got ya lol were on the same page then :thumbsup:

Curtain_of_Steel
03-12-2010, 11:44 AM
McCoy is small, can't take a hit. Poor attitude, you seen it on the sideline of the bowl game when he was out and the back up was driving. Cheered very little for his QB. Not the team player we want at qb.

I would rather take a shot on Tebow, at least there may be other options for him in the slot after the fact. He can match up with us taking Haden in the 1st round, LOL Fellow Gator....
However a QB is not what is needed in the 2nd round. BB is going to beat this. Garland is going to make this girl wear her red shoes and click them over and over so she can go back to Kansas.

Northside Jonny
03-12-2010, 11:53 AM
McCoy is small, can't take a hit. Poor attitude, you seen it on the sideline of the bowl game when he was out and the back up was driving. Cheered very little for his QB. Not the team player we want at qb.

I would rather take a shot on Tebow, at least there may be other options for him in the slot after the fact. He can match up with us taking Haden in the 1st round, LOL Fellow Gator....
However a QB is not what is needed in the 2nd round. BB is going to beat this. Garland is going to make this girl wear her red shoes and click them over and over so she can go back to Kansas.

I sure hope so!
I honestly think Tebow is gonna have a long carrer as an H-Back.

pete74
03-12-2010, 12:08 PM
McCoy is small, can't take a hit. Poor attitude, you seen it on the sideline of the bowl game when he was out and the back up was driving. Cheered very little for his QB. Not the team player we want at qb.

I would rather take a shot on Tebow, at least there may be other options for him in the slot after the fact. He can match up with us taking Haden in the 1st round, LOL Fellow Gator....
However a QB is not what is needed in the 2nd round. BB is going to beat this. Garland is going to make this girl wear her red shoes and click them over and over so she can go back to Kansas.

he is a top knotch competitor who only went back last year to win the championship then got knocked out of the game early so i would be more surprised if he didnt look upset

vrabinec
03-12-2010, 12:16 PM
McCoy is small, can't take a hit. Poor attitude, you seen it on the sideline of the bowl game when he was out and the back up was driving. Cheered very little for his QB. Not the team player we want at qb.

I would rather take a shot on Tebow, at least there may be other options for him in the slot after the fact. He can match up with us taking Haden in the 1st round, LOL Fellow Gator....
However a QB is not what is needed in the 2nd round. BB is going to beat this. Garland is going to make this girl wear her red shoes and click them over and over so she can go back to Kansas.

As long as you're not taking Tebow before the 5th round, I'm in. The guy can't throw, he has terrible mechanics, he flunked his Wunderlich test, and he can't read defenses. Heck, he's not even all that fast, so he'd be a stretch at h-back.

pittguy578
03-14-2010, 12:08 AM
The Rooneys or the NFL can't suspend someone without pay based on an allegation that the player is disputing.
I do not see him being charged with the girl being intoxicated and him having two off duty cops in his entourage. The prosecution also has no witnesses. If the defense has two off duty cops in good standing saying they did not see anything go on, charges will probably not be pursued. The girl may not even want to go through with the charges at this point. I am not sure how she also doesn't face charges herself for underage drinking. The cops would look bad if they charge him with assault and it is noted on the police report she was drinking/intoxicated and was not charged. I

OneForTheToe
03-14-2010, 12:20 AM
The Rooneys or the NFL can't suspend someone without pay based on an allegation that the player is disputing.
I do not see him being charged with the girl being intoxicated and him having two off duty cops in his entourage. The prosecution also has no witnesses. If the defense has two off duty cops in good standing saying they did not see anything go on, charges will probably not be pursued. The girl may not even want to go through with the charges at this point. I am not sure how she also doesn't face charges herself for underage drinking. The cops would look bad if they charge him with assault and it is noted on the police report she was drinking/intoxicated and was not charged. I

Where did you get that from? Micheal Vick was disputing the charges against him when he was suspended. Goodell absolutely has the power to suspend a player while the player is disputing the charges, if he deems their actions detrimental to the NFL. I'm not saying it is going to happen, and I certainly not in favor of it in this case, but it could happen.

If you are just relying on the suspended without pay part then I'm not sure if suspended players get payed or not. That might depend on the individual players contract. I know with the Vick situation there was a debate on whether certain money was earned before the suspension even if it had not yet been paid. No matter, I think most fans are more interested on whether Ben will be starting the first game of the season, and if not, they won't be much comforted if Ben were still to be getting paid.

Vincent
03-16-2010, 09:04 PM
I don't have a feel for where this Ben saga is going. I'll bet the Rooneys do. If they are either disgusted enough to pull the Ben rip cord, or if they know this thing is going to deteriorate, if I were them, I'd do the following.

1. Trade Ben to the Skins for Jason Campbell, their 10 #1, and 11 #1. Shanny and Mr Snyder'd dive on that.

2. Trade the 10 Skins #1 pick (#4 overall) to Seattle for their 2nd #1 (#14 overall), and their #2 and #4. That gives Seattle the #4 and #6 overall picks in this draft.

3. Trade Seattles #2 (#36 overall) to the Iggles for McNabb. Excellent value for both sides.

4. Trade our #1 (#18 overall) to San Diego for their #1 and #2.

That leaves us with 2 NFC East starting QBs, one to start for a year or two, and one to develop, as well as the #14, #28, #50, and #60 overall picks. That's a plunder of value. The picks could get us a lot of talent, or some could be packaged for another trade(s). Our 2 #1s have point value to trade as high as #5. Get the player we want. Plus we have 2 #1s in 11.

We have a ton of value in Ben, IF we need it. It'd be tempting to cash in anyway.

This is all "IF". I'm not bad mouthing Ben, throwing him under the bus, or not appreciating what he has done on the field.

Psyychoward86
03-16-2010, 09:43 PM
God i know this is all a big "what if?" but i cant believe that it's come to this: a serious discussion incase we've seen the last of arguably the greatest franchise QB in our history...

tony hipchest
03-16-2010, 11:48 PM
i like your thinking, vincent, but you may be undervaluing ben.

2X sb champion in the prime of his career, who i think has a cheaper price tag than m. ryan. stafford, and what this years #1 rookie qb will get.

look at what the giants and falcons gave away just to move up a few spots to take eli, and vick. granted they were supposed to be the best qb's in a generation, but ben has proven to be what they were supposed to be.

cutler got two 1st's and then some. rickey williams scored an entire draft. and ultimately ("troubles" and all) ben should be able to score atleast half of what herschel walker did. even minnesota raked the raiders over the coals for randy moss and seattle traded a 1st for deionne freaking branch.

carolina would be the best team to rake over the coals if they had a 1st rounder. they have had a fire sale and fox is a lame duck, destined to fail this season (= cowher / ben reunion).

Vincent
03-17-2010, 08:51 AM
i like your thinking, vincent, but you may be undervaluing ben.

2X sb champion in the prime of his career, who i think has a cheaper price tag than m. ryan. stafford, and what this years #1 rookie qb will get.

look at what the giants and falcons gave away just to move up a few spots to take eli, and vick. granted they were supposed to be the best qb's in a generation, but ben has proven to be what they were supposed to be.

cutler got two 1st's and then some. rickey williams scored an entire draft. and ultimately ("troubles" and all) ben should be able to score atleast half of what herschel walker did. even minnesota raked the raiders over the coals for randy moss and seattle traded a 1st for deionne freaking branch.

carolina would be the best team to rake over the coals if they had a 1st rounder. they have had a fire sale and fox is a lame duck, destined to fail this season (= cowher / ben reunion).

I agree with your "straight up" comparisons. The problem here is the unknown. The Skins would be gambling he isn't charged. and worse does jail time. We leave some value on the table but no risk.

Carolina? I live near Charlotte and know the team. The risk factor on a moral basis is too much. And we're only a few hours from Millidgeville. Could Ben bear the temptation? :chuckle:

markymarc
03-20-2010, 12:22 PM
This is simple...Dennis Dixon.