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BIGBENFASTWILLIE
03-13-2010, 11:05 PM
http://healthreform.gov/

“Whether or not you have health insurance right now, the reforms we seek will bring stability and security that you don't have today.
This isn't about politics. This is about people's lives. This is about people's businesses. This is about our future. ”
- President Barack Obama

Look around this website and actually read about the health reform.
Educate yourself......:
If you post...please "site" evidence from the website to back your claims
:coffee::

Borski
03-14-2010, 01:21 AM
I'm not completely opposed to a health care plan, I do not think it should be on a national level though. I think it should be up to the states to design a plan to fit their needs, not a 1 size fits all method.

Also, your "Educate yourself" comment is a bit condescending, don't ya think?

MACH1
03-14-2010, 01:25 AM
Educate yourself on how its UNCONSTITUTIONAL.

GoSlash27
03-14-2010, 07:18 AM
^ This! :applaudit:

Unlimited Federal power is not something to be encouraged.

X-Terminator
03-14-2010, 10:06 AM
I'm not completely opposed to a health care plan, I do not think it should be on a national level though. I think it should be up to the states to design a plan to fit their needs, not a 1 size fits all method.

This. I do not want the feds in control of my health care and health care decisions, plain and simple.

EDIT: OK, here's one example from your link here - requiring coverage of children up to age 26. Are you kidding me??? At that age, they damn well better have their own job with their own health benefits, because - get this - THEY AREN'T KIDS ANYMORE! There's no reason whatsoever why we should be covering any child over 18. It's ridiculous, creates unnecessary spending and will drive up the cost of premiums since the insurance companies will have to abide by the provision...that is, if they will even be allowed to increase premiums.

Vincent
03-14-2010, 12:31 PM
http://www.daybydaycartoon.com/031410.jpg

Le Roi. I can't stand it! :rofl: :flap: :toofunny: :sofunny: :danceshout:

GBMelBlount
03-14-2010, 12:45 PM
LOL. good one Vincent. :applaudit:

Something tells me that BigWillie does not understand or teach (unrevised) history. :chuckle:

St33lersguy
03-14-2010, 03:45 PM
Health Care reform will bankrupt the country, and hurt the american people. Of course the community organizer in chief, the skeleton of the house, and Harry "the war's lost" Ried don't seem to care.

Godfather
03-14-2010, 03:48 PM
I think we should all educate ourselves on how Reidcare (which is what we'll get) worked in Massachusetts. Premiums went through the roof and are now the highest in the country, and they're not getting what they pay for. MA has the worst access in the country. The emergency rooms are full of people with the sniffles because the insurers are driving primary care physicians out of business.

Here's a link from Newsweek. Even they admit this "reform" is trash and harms working-class and middle-class families. Enjoy this "victory", libs:

http://www.newsweek.com/id/40211#?l=372181063&t=57923008001

smokin3000gt
03-14-2010, 04:23 PM
I think we should all educate ourselves on how Reidcare (which is what we'll get) worked in Massachusetts. Premiums went through the roof and are now the highest in the country, and they're not getting what they pay for. MA has the worst access in the country. The emergency rooms are full of people with the sniffles because the insurers are driving primary care physicians out of business.

Here's a link from Newsweek. Even they admit this "reform" is trash and harms working-class and middle-class families. Enjoy this "victory", libs:

http://www.newsweek.com/id/40211#?l=372181063&t=57923008001

b..b...b..but healthreform.gov says it will be AWESOME for everyone!! Be AMERICAN people! Didn't you read the obama quote?!

Godfather
03-14-2010, 04:48 PM
b..b...b..but healthreform.gov says it will be AWESOME for everyone!! Be AMERICAN people! Didn't you read the obama quote?!

Yep...but I also read the Obama quote from the campaign where he said forcing people to buy insurance was a terrible idea.

The Patriot
03-14-2010, 07:21 PM
Yep...but I also read the Obama quote from the campaign where he said forcing people to buy insurance was a terrible idea.

At least when Tyrone comes into Mass General Hospital with three gunshot wounds his mandatory insurance pays for the emergency care and not the hospital.

Vincent
03-14-2010, 08:03 PM
At least when Tyrone comes into Mass General Hospital with three gunshot wounds his mandatory insurance pays for the emergency care and not the hospital.

No. We pay for it. Opt out.

silver & black
03-14-2010, 08:36 PM
The Gov't can stay the hell out of anything to do my, or my family's health care! The Gov't screws up everything it touches!

I'm all for health care reform. First, let's get Tort reform. Next, open up the competition for medical insurance across the country. These two things alone would drive down the costs of health care... without the Gov't running any aspect of it.

MACH1
03-14-2010, 09:05 PM
Yep...but I also read the Obama quote from the campaign where he said forcing people to buy insurance was a terrible idea.

But it's a great idea to fine and(or) jail them if they don't.

steelax04
03-15-2010, 09:41 AM
How about a site that actually debates the issue instead of one that is all "positive" spin and propaganda? I don't see anything on this "site" that explains both sides of the issue so the American people can be "educated" on the pros AND cons.

I'm for proper and sensible healthcare reform... not reform just for the sake of reform.

Godfather
03-15-2010, 09:59 AM
I'm for proper and sensible healthcare reform... not reform just for the sake of reform.

Exactly. I think this is going to end up being Obama's No Child Gets Ahead--it'll be an unmitigated disaster and ten years from now when the results are obvious, we'll have to debate comprehensive health care reform again.

GoSlash27
03-15-2010, 11:48 AM
Godfather,
I think this is going to end up being Obama's No Child Gets Ahead--it'll be an unmitigated disaster and ten years from now when the results are obvious, we'll have to debate comprehensive health care reform again.
Hehe "no child gets ahead". Catchy. :applaudit:

My concern is that if this hot mess ends up passing, 10 years down the road HCR will be the least of our worries. Our economy is on the brink of collapse as it is, and this giant social program is more than enough to push us over the edge.

MACH1
03-15-2010, 12:26 PM
Godfather,

Hehe "no child gets ahead". Catchy. :applaudit:

My concern is that if this hot mess ends up passing, 10 years down the road HCR will be the least of our worries. Our economy is on the brink of collapse as it is, and this giant social program is more than enough to push us over the edge.

Ten years down the road with this this big steaming pile of crap we'll be lucky to have jobs by then.

Indo
03-15-2010, 01:49 PM
At least when Tyrone comes into Mass General Hospital with three gunshot wounds his mandatory insurance pays for the emergency care and not the hospital.

How does one mandate that Tyrone has insurance?
By fining him? Or by throwing him in jail if he fails to obtain "Mandatory" insurance?
Who, just out of curiosity, oversees those policies? And who pays for the jail time? Doesn't doing this (enforcing the policies) actually just add unnecessary expenses that will be forced upon the taxpayer----but it won't be actual "healthcare costs", just the cost of enforcing the mandatory insurance...we want to give voting rights to illegal aliens and throw upstanding citizens (not Tyrone, but Joe and Lisa who just got out of college and are looking for jobs) in jail for not having health care insurance (Oh, wait, their PARENTS will have to absorb that cost until they are 26. Why was 26 chosen? Why not 21 or 25? Probably, and I have no way to prove or back up this theory, because there are some studies that have shown that 26 is THE AVERAGE LIFE EXPECTANCY of inner city black males due to inner city gangs and violence ----shootings-----Not my numbers, not my data (unfortunately I don't have time to find a reference for that). It just seems strange to me that that is the age chosen).

When will people realize that you can't "force" someone to do something that they don't want to do----like paying for health care insurance. I have said this before and I will say it again, A LARGE PORTION OF THOSE THAT DON'T HAVE HEALTH CARE INSURANCE DON'T HAVE HEALTH CARE INSURANCE BECAUSE THEY CHOOSE TO SPEND THEIR MONEY IN OTHER WAYS...

Unfortunately I don't have time right now to rip apart these proposals----suffice it to say that I deal with health insurance companies and people without health insurance every day. These proposals won't work for numerous reasons, not the least of which is that the Govt. CANNOT efficiently do anything properly.

Those voting on the proposal(s) are not even subject to them
They are kidding themselves if they believe that it will "streamline" things
Did everyone catch how doctors will be "incentivized" (is that even a proper word?) to do things more efficiently----is everyone reading between the lines? That doesn't mean "will recieve bonuses for doing things the way Uncle Sam wants, it means being penalized----incidentally, this ALREADY happens to an extent. We are told which antibiotics we must use in certain procedures,how long a bladder catheter can stay in place, how to treat certain infections, etc, etc, etc Any hospital not complying with these regulations does not recieve its full pay from Medicare. Period. Hospitals are already being "incentivized" to do things Uncle Sam's way...
How do you (in the collective sense---I'm not specifically addressing the Patriot here) think this will pan out after all of this "Reform"? Well, for one, there will be less doctors. I'll refer everyone to the perfect model of what will happen---it's already happening in Massachusetts. Why does the Govt. think it will be any different on a National level?

Make no mistake, this is A VERY BAD THING. And, as has been pointed out, UNCONSTITUTIONAL.

I could go on and on with this-----and I truly wish I had the time to do so because I think everyone is in need of some education about what REALLY happens in the health care arena...

I'm happy to answer specific questions if anyone has any

GoSlash27
03-15-2010, 04:36 PM
How does one mandate that Tyrone has insurance?
By tacking it onto his taxes. $700 a year, if memory serves.
And that is a glaring loophole. They need the mandate to force young healthy people to share the burden of pre-existing conditions, but the fine is cheaper than the insurance.
Anybody who has 2 brain cells to clack together will soon realize that they come out way ahead by paying the fine instead of carrying the insurance. They can apply for it if/ when they need it and can't be denied.
This whole thing is gonna be a train wreck.

MACH1
03-15-2010, 04:42 PM
One way they'll get the money from people is if they have a tax refund coming the feds will keep it.

Just like if you get behind on financial aid for school, get behind, thought you had a refund coming. Guess again.

Godfather
03-15-2010, 06:33 PM
By tacking it onto his taxes. $700 a year, if memory serves.
And that is a glaring loophole. They need the mandate to force young healthy people to share the burden of pre-existing conditions, but the fine is cheaper than the insurance.
Anybody who has 2 brain cells to clack together will soon realize that they come out way ahead by paying the fine instead of carrying the insurance. They can apply for it if/ when they need it and can't be denied.
This whole thing is gonna be a train wreck.

Not just that, but the ban on medical underwriting means insurance companies won't even be allowed to charge more for self-inflicted risk factors like smoking (always self-inflicted) or obesity (often self-inflicted). So a young, healthy person who thinks health insurance is a bad deal now would see it as an even worse deal under health care deform.

silver & black
03-15-2010, 07:19 PM
http://www.newsweek.com/id/234953?GT1=43002

SteelerEmpire
03-15-2010, 11:03 PM
;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;

SteelerEmpire
03-15-2010, 11:05 PM
ObamaCare for the next 100 years comin at us this week... If it does not pass he'll be set back as the leader of the free world... but... if it passes, he'll prove to be pretty powerful... Its all, or nothing at all... But... anythings better than what we already have...(the current health care 'rip-off ' we currently have) :tt03::tt03::tt03:

KeiselPower99
03-15-2010, 11:24 PM
The Democrats need to pass this as soon as possible because come November alot of em aint gonna have jobs. I can see certain parts of the system needing work but not the way they are trying to do it. What Obama and the Dems are doing is unconstitutional and morally wrong.

MACH1
03-15-2010, 11:59 PM
ObamaCare for the next 100 years comin at us this week... If it does not pass he'll be set back as the leader of the free world... but... if it passes, he'll prove to be pretty powerful... Its all, or nothing at all... But... anythings better than what we already have...(the current health care 'rip-off ' we currently have) :tt03::tt03::tt03:

If you think it's bad now, just wait. If it pass's it's gonna get a lot worse. In the mean time enjoy paying for it for the next 4-6 years before you really get screwed.

SCSTILLER
03-16-2010, 07:29 AM
ObamaCare for the next 100 years comin at us this week... If it does not pass he'll be set back as the leader of the free world... but... if it passes, he'll prove to be pretty powerful... Its all, or nothing at all... But... anythings better than what we already have...(the current health care 'rip-off ' we currently have) :tt03::tt03::tt03:

Must be some pretty delicious Kool-Aide

Godfather
03-16-2010, 09:27 AM
ObamaCare for the next 100 years comin at us this week... If it does not pass he'll be set back as the leader of the free world... but... if it passes, he'll prove to be pretty powerful... Its all, or nothing at all... But... anythings better than what we already have...(the current health care 'rip-off ' we currently have) :tt03::tt03::tt03:

Except this "reform" just doubles down on everything that's wrong with the system. I could at least see the argument for a public option or single payer but that's not in the bill. This bill just forces everyone to give their money to that 'rip-off' system.

MACH1
03-16-2010, 09:36 AM
Whats student loans have to do with health care? Student loan reform written in with health care. :mad:

stlrtruck
03-16-2010, 09:52 AM
Whats student loans have to do with health care? Student loan reform written in with health care. :mad:

Because once your student loans are reformed, you're going to need the reformed health care :toofunny: :rofl:

Indo
03-16-2010, 10:11 AM
By tacking it onto his taxes. $700 a year, if memory serves.
And that is a glaring loophole. They need the mandate to force young healthy people to share the burden of pre-existing conditions, but the fine is cheaper than the insurance.
Anybody who has 2 brain cells to clack together will soon realize that they come out way ahead by paying the fine instead of carrying the insurance. They can apply for it if/ when they need it and can't be denied.
This whole thing is gonna be a train wreck.

It's a great idea, in theory.
The problem is, MOST people who get shot DON'T have jobs and, therefore, don't pay taxes. And they ain't gonna pay the fine, either. The gang members and drug-runners who get shot are a HUGE burden to the health care system...a single patient with numerous wounds can cost a hospital over a million dollars, especially considering the preferred weapon of many of the gangs---the AK47. It's easy to get and it does a whole lotta damage.
But Obaaaamie isn't even mentioning them, is he

Indo
03-16-2010, 10:13 AM
ObamaCare for the next 100 years comin at us this week... If it does not pass he'll be set back as the leader of the free world... but... if it passes, he'll prove to be pretty powerful... Its all, or nothing at all... But... anythings better than what we already have...(the current health care 'rip-off ' we currently have) :tt03::tt03::tt03:

Trust me.....it's not better

I'm not saying that some sort of reform isn't needed. But this crap they are trying to shovel down our throats isn't it

Godfather
03-16-2010, 12:36 PM
It's a great idea, in theory.
The problem is, MOST people who get shot DON'T have jobs and, therefore, don't pay taxes. And they ain't gonna pay the fine, either. The gang members and drug-runners who get shot are a HUGE burden to the health care system...a single patient with numerous wounds can cost a hospital over a million dollars, especially considering the preferred weapon of many of the gangs---the AK47. It's easy to get and it does a whole lotta damage.
But Obaaaamie isn't even mentioning them, is he

That's why ER/trauma centers should be publicly funded. It's an emergency service like fire or police protection. And they have to take every critical case because they don't have time to identify the person and find out if they can afford to pay. Plus, society pays for the uncompensated ER care anyway.

The tax revenue for emergency rooms should come from a tax on wire transfers (with a little higher rate for overseas transfers). That way, you grab a piece of the remittances sent to Mexico by illegal immigrants and you're at least getting something back. States can supplement that with dedicated sales taxes on items like fast food or cigarettes which are disproportionately consumed by the lower socioeconomic classes, and that way everyone's paying something into the system.

Indo
03-16-2010, 02:51 PM
That's why ER/trauma centers should be publicly funded. It's an emergency service like fire or police protection. And they have to take every critical case because they don't have time to identify the person and find out if they can afford to pay. Plus, society pays for the uncompensated ER care anyway.

The tax revenue for emergency rooms should come from a tax on wire transfers (with a little higher rate for overseas transfers). That way, you grab a piece of the remittances sent to Mexico by illegal immigrants and you're at least getting something back. States can supplement that with dedicated sales taxes on items like fast food or cigarettes which are disproportionately consumed by the lower socioeconomic classes, and that way everyone's paying something into the system.

Several things:

Yes, I agree that ER/trauma centers should be funded. But it gets a little confusing as to how to figure out which ones get funded. For example---since you know New Orleans----Charity Hospital (which closed after Katrina) was a designated Level 1 Trauma Center. Now I won't go into everything it takes to be designated as Level 1 (as opposed to Level 2 or 3), but it takes quite a bit of complex certification to be designated as Level 1. Do you fund just the Level 1s, or do you include the 2s & 3s? And, if you're gonna include them, are you gonna include every hospital in the USA? Even the small little ones see their share of trauma-----farm accidents, highway accidents, etc. It rapidly becomes a very difficult question to answer...who gets funded and where is the money coming from?
(BTW, I like your idea where the money comes from)


Also, as a point of education for people who believe that an ER has the right to check a patient's insurance status----
They don't. Period.
As a matter of convenience the Registration desk in every ER asks for insurance verification, but they cannot turn you away if you don't have insurance. It's illegal.

Everyone in the ER is seen regardless of their ability to pay. Period.
It's a common misconception that ERs turn patients without insurance away. They don't. They can't.
And this also is a problem because many people without insurance will use the ER as a non-emergency Clinic and demand to be seen for every little cough and sniffle. And, by law, they must be seen. It's a huge waste of resources (both material and human) trying to deal with those patients and the true emergencies...

Also, society doesn't necessarily pay for the uncompensated ER care. Often the hospital just has to take the loss (and keep smiling :grin:). Most (if not all) Level 1 Trauma Centers operate in-the-Red because of this while trying to make up for the deficit by relying on Medicare/'caid reimbursements in other areas. They also try to obtain retro-active medicaid reimbursements on a lot of the "shooties" (as opposed to the "shooters"), but the reimbursement level is abysmal, something like 16% of the private insurance reimbursement rates

Vincent
03-16-2010, 03:18 PM
Whats student loans have to do with health care? Student loan reform written in with health care. :mad:

Just STFU and pay for it. Selfish @#$%$%^&%$#$%^&%$#




























:couch:

Vincent
03-16-2010, 03:42 PM
The tax revenue for emergency rooms should come from a tax on wire transfers (with a little higher rate for overseas transfers). That way, you grab a piece of the remittances sent to Mexico by illegal immigrants and you're at least getting something back.

I once heard that the real reason we do NOTHING to mitigate illegal immigration, and the associated flight of cash back to Mexico is because if stopped that the Mexican economy would implode on itself and the burden on the US would bring us down as well.

If we had smart politicians we'd legalize drugs and tax the hell out of them. If drugs were domestically produced, controlled by the FDA, and taxed like tobacco and booze, druggies would be getting quality controlled primo @#$% at reasonable prices, and we'd have the new tax base that'd handsomely fund emergency facilities. The drug cartels would die on the vine. Crime would be reduced because much incentive to be a criminal would cease to exist. There would be two chickens in every garage and a Prius in every pot.

But I think we all know the last place that tax money would go is to emergency facilities. Just like all that tax they're going to collect between passage of bull@#$%care and 2014 will never, EV-HAR, pay for one damn dime of "health care".

IMHO, the solution to the vagaries of the swamp on the Potomac is simple. When a politician creates a bill, the author and cosponsors are personally responsible for the implementation of the bill. The bill must be fully self funded by new taxes to be entirely committed to the use defined by the bill. Collection and disbursement of said tax revenues would only fund that bill. Any funds found to have been diverted from the bill's purpose would be punishable be very severe measures, up to and including death. I think that would minimize bull@#$% "legislation" and go a long way toward eliminating deficits..

Yeah, dass sum primo @#$% right dare.

MACH1
03-16-2010, 05:41 PM
Just STFU and pay for it. Selfish @#$%$%^&%$#$%^&%$#


:couch:


:buttkick:

GBMelBlount
03-16-2010, 06:55 PM
Indo
Also, as a point of education for people who believe that an ER has the right to check a patient's insurance status----
They don't. Period.
As a matter of convenience the Registration desk in every ER asks for insurance verification, but they cannot turn you away if you don't have insurance. It's illegal.

Very interesting Indo. A friend of mine mentioned yesterday that he felt everyone in America should have access to health care whether they can afford or not.

Obviously I thought that was quite noble and caring and can see the appeal of government healthcare to someone who feels that way.

So what you are saying is that EVERYONE already has access to free healthcare through ER centers, right?

So what is the advantage of government run healthcare? Would it provide better care for let's say an uninsured person with cancer as opposed to the current system?

Leftoverhard
03-16-2010, 07:24 PM
Very interesting Indo. A friend of mine mentioned yesterday that he felt everyone in America should have access to health care whether they can afford or not.

Obviously I thought that was quite noble and caring and can see the appeal of government healthcare to someone who feels that way.

So what you are saying is that EVERYONE already has access to free healthcare through ER centers, right?

So what is the advantage of government run healthcare? Would it provide better care for let's say an uninsured person with cancer as opposed to the current system?

GBMel -

I might be able to answer part of that:

The difference is that even though you can't be denied ER care, you will still be charged full price, billed and then if that isn't paid (and it rarely is, considering that if you can't afford health insurance, you probably can't afford huge hospital bills) it goes to creditors. Then you're really screwed. And If you have cancer, you're as good as dead because there are plenty of ways of denying health care outside of ER visits.

My opinion is that this convoluted, washed out, crappy, diluted bill is still better than what we currently have. It's a shame we can't work something out that would serve all of us - but even as optimistic as I usually am, think this country is way too divided for EVERYONE to have access to free health care.

Vincent
03-16-2010, 07:28 PM
So what you are saying is that EVERYONE already has access to free healthcare through ER centers, right?

That's right. If it ain't broke, don't "fix" it.

So what is the advantage of government run healthcare?

It depends on who you are.

If you're a doctor, you are now a "contractor" beholden to the gubmint. The gubmint decides where you practice, who you treat, what treatments are available to you and your patients, and how much you earn.

If you're a patient, the gubmint decides if and where you will receive treatment, what treatments are available to you and whether or not you will live.

If you're the gubmint, you control another sixth of the GDP, you have trillions more to piss down ratholes, the entire population is dependent on you, and since you already control the banks, heavy manufacturing, and energy, you can consolidate your strangle hold and go totally despotic.

A simple question should clear this mystery up for even the most strident lefty - do you really think the gubmint gives a @#$% whether or not you die in festers and boils? At best, you're a "line item" in a budget. Toast.

GBMelBlount
03-16-2010, 07:31 PM
GBMel -

The difference is that even though you can't be denied ER care, you will still be charged full price, billed and then if that isn't paid (and it rarely is, considering that if you can't afford health insurance, you probably can't afford huge hospital bills) it goes to creditors. Then you're really screwed. And If you have cancer, you're as good as dead because there are plenty of ways of denying health care outside of ER visits.



Again, I can understand the concern especially in the latter example.

My concern is that when the government gets involved it usually doesn't improve things.

With government controlled health care, or anything where control is taken from free markets by a government, it has less or no competition which in almost every case increases price, decreases quality and accessibility and flatlines innovation.

Vincent
03-17-2010, 10:22 AM
This is a donkey that was banned from the donkey convention because he wouldn’t endorse either Madam Rottweiler or the muslim. Why do we call them "liberals"? Freedom to think? To speak? What?

Why do the donkeys continue to try to force this travesty on us even when their own party knows it will be a disaster?

http://www.bostonherald.com/news/politics/view.bg?articleid=1240176
Tim Cahill slams Barack Obama, Dems on health care
Jessica Van Sack By Jessica Van Sack
Wednesday, March 17, 2010

State Treasurer Tim Cahill, taking swipes at both Gov. Deval Patrick and President Obama, boosted his bipartisan chops yesterday, telling Herald columnist Howie Carr on WRKO, “I voted for John McCain, believe it or not.”

Cahill, saying he was barred from the 2008 Democratic National Convention because he wouldn’t endorse either Obama or Hillary Clinton, said, “My own party basically voted me out.”

“I was afraid of what we had already been getting in Massachusetts, and at that point in 2008, I was aware that it wasn’t working,” he said. Separately yesterday, Cahill accused Obama of “propping up” the Bay State’s health plan with federal aid in order to help push the Democrats’ plan through Congress.

“The real problem is that this . . . sucking sound of money has been going into this health-care reform,” Cahill said. “And I would argue that it’s being propped up so that the federal government and the Obama administration can drive it through.”

Gov. Deval Patrick argues the state’s universal health care program has added 1 percent to the budget, but Cahill said the real impact is buffered by federal dollars.

Meanwhile, Republican Charles Baker’s campaign said Patrick “has consistently failed to address rising health-care costs in Massachusetts.” Baker, the former Harvard Pilgrim CEO, advocated for years for greater transparency on the part of medical service providers.

Cahill called on congressional Democrats yesterday to go “back to the drawing board,” saying he fears they will “bankrupt” the country.

Patrick’s campaign yesterday used Cahill’s health-care smackdown in its latest fund-raising pitch, e-mailing supporters that Cahill “is advocating policies that could put that access, and their health, in jeopardy.” Patrick, whose administration held a hearing on health-care costs yesterday, said exorbitant premium increases and medical service costs need to be curbed through legislation he has proposed.

GBMelBlount
03-17-2010, 11:18 AM
Cahill, saying he was barred from the 2008 Democratic National Convention because he wouldn’t endorse either Obama or Hillary Clinton, said, “My own party basically voted me out.”


well, so much for "freedom"...

GoSlash27
03-17-2010, 11:24 AM
Hasn't anybody been following the fiascos in Greece and California?
Our government is already insolvent, and now they're gonna tack on yet another social program when they're collapsing under the weight of the ones they've already got.
Deficit spending is increasing exponentially, our public debt is on the verge of getting downgraded according to Moody's, and the Prime rate is going to have to be raised in order to sell T-bills (which are becoming increasingly toxic). This is going to force the interest on the outstanding debt through the roof.

Have the proponents of this half-baked money pit considered how they're gonna get their government healthcare when the government is broke? :banging:

GoSlash27
03-17-2010, 11:26 AM
GB,
I know it's an aside, but both parties do that. In fact, we just thwarted an attempt to kick Jim Leach out of the Republican party for much the same reason. We're trying to stop that sort of behavior in Iowa, but it's an uphill battle.

MACH1
03-17-2010, 11:31 AM
Now they're going to pass this deathcare without even voting on it. Whatever it takes, even if it isn't legal or constitutional.

The American way. :doh:

Vincent
03-17-2010, 12:20 PM
Now they're going to pass this deathcare without even voting on it. Whatever it takes, even if it isn't legal or constitutional.

The American way. :doh:

No, the socialist way. Reichstag - 1933. If the muslim gets a second term we will see stalinism. In a big way.

GBMelBlount
03-17-2010, 12:27 PM
GB,
I know it's an aside, but both parties do that. In fact, we just thwarted an attempt to kick Jim Leach out of the Republican party for much the same reason. We're trying to stop that sort of behavior in Iowa, but it's an uphill battle.

I understand your point Slash and I do agree with what you are saying. Both parties are blinded by partisan politics at times and put their own interests before those of the vast majority of the citizens in many cases.

That is why so many on this board have a healthy skepticism for big government and big government solutions imo.

MACH1
03-17-2010, 05:39 PM
I understand your point Slash and I do agree with what you are saying. Both parties are blinded by partisan politics at times and put their own interests before those of the vast majority of the citizens in many cases.

That is why so many on this board have a healthy skepticism for big government and big government solutions imo.

Big government = Free stuff. :rolleyes:

GoSlash27
03-17-2010, 09:19 PM
GB,
Both parties are blinded by partisan politics at times and put their own interests before those of the vast majority of the citizens in many cases.

That is why so many on this board have a healthy skepticism for big government and big government solutions imo.

Agreed. Both parties are blinded by partisan politics 100% of the time; it's their nature. This whole health care thing is really just a political game of chicken to them.

But it's not about what's best for the people. The Democrats are the ones who profess to know the answer to that one. They don't, but they like to pretend they do. And their understanding of "what's best" just happens to coincide with whatever solution funnels the most money to their sponsors. But that's beside the point...

Any proper representative should consult the Constitution first and the will of his constituents second, regardless of politics. That's what representative republics are all about.

It is unconscionable that anyone in either party would ignore the Constitution and pull out all the parliamentary stops in order to pass legislation that the voters clearly don't want, but that's where we find ourselves. At some point we stopped electing representatives and started electing "leaders". We need to cut that out IMO.
/ end rant

Godfather
03-18-2010, 09:56 AM
Looks like they vote this weekend.

We're seeing the light at the end of the tunnel. And hearing a whistle.

fansince'76
03-18-2010, 10:05 AM
Looks like they vote this weekend.

We're seeing the light at the end of the tunnel. And hearing a whistle.

More like a very big "flush."

7SteelGal43
03-18-2010, 11:44 AM
Now they're going to pass this deathcare without even voting on it. Whatever it takes, even if it isn't legal or constitutional.

The American way. :doh:

Yeah, how does that tactic go ? Parlimentary procedure, where they don't actually vote on the bill, they just "deem" it passed ?

I like Rush's idea. I'm not gonna pay my taxes this year. When the IRS contacts me, I'll just tell 'em "oh yeah, my taxes are paid....I 'deemed' them paid" :chuckle:


PS: this whole "pass the bill without voting" really has me seeing red. On the other hand, if they do this, we'll never see the Democrat party again !

MACH1
03-18-2010, 12:22 PM
Yeah, how does that tactic go ? Parlimentary procedure, where they don't actually vote on the bill, they just "deem" it passed ?

I like Rush's idea. I'm not gonna pay my taxes this year. When the IRS contacts me, I'll just tell 'em "oh yeah, my taxes are paid....I 'deemed' them paid" :chuckle:


PS: this whole "pass the bill without voting" really has me seeing red. On the other hand, if they do this, we'll never see the Democrat party again !

It's no longer the demorat party, it's the socialist/marxist/commy party.

Vincent
03-18-2010, 01:05 PM
It's no longer the demorat party, it's the socialist/marxist/commy party.

IMHO, those 4 terms are interchangeable depending on the audience. But I think its insensitive and telling of you to refer to them as "rats". :chuckle:

SCSTILLER
03-18-2010, 03:06 PM
Here's your health care reform:

http://rules.house.gov/bills_details.aspx?NewsID=4606

Maybe I should have posted this in the "read a good book lately" thread, bet it would be considered a horror novel, or a horrible novel. Happy reading, if you can get to the end of it.

Godfather
03-18-2010, 03:47 PM
Yeah, how does that tactic go ? Parlimentary procedure, where they don't actually vote on the bill, they just "deem" it passed ?

I like Rush's idea. I'm not gonna pay my taxes this year. When the IRS contacts me, I'll just tell 'em "oh yeah, my taxes are paid....I 'deemed' them paid" :chuckle:


PS: this whole "pass the bill without voting" really has me seeing red. On the other hand, if they do this, we'll never see the Democrat party again !

Nah, the R's will take over on a wave of voter outrage, then not have the balls to do the right thing and repeal Obamacare, then they'll let the big government RINOs run the show again and the D's will come back into power.

MACH1
03-18-2010, 05:37 PM
Or some sort of civil disobedience breaks out. States start seceding from the union. :noidea:

GoSlash27
03-18-2010, 06:32 PM
Or some sort of civil disobedience breaks out. States start seceding from the union. :noidea:
I know which side I'm on.

Leftoverhard
03-18-2010, 06:47 PM
Hey look! The sky is clearly falling...

NJarhead
03-18-2010, 06:59 PM
Hey look! The sky is clearly falling...

Who cares, we'll all be doomed any way if this BS Obama-Care crap goes through. The sky falling is just icing on an already fuuuuggged up cake.

:coffee:

GBMelBlount
03-18-2010, 07:36 PM
Hey look! The sky is clearly falling...

Lefty, do you really think government controlling healthcare is going to improve things?

Do you think the overall price, quality and accessibility will somehow improve?

Has the government ever taken control of anything from the private sector and made it better?

NJarhead
03-18-2010, 07:38 PM
Lefty, do you really think government controlling healthcare is going to improve things?

Do you think the price, quality and accessibility will somehow improve?

Has the government ever taken control of anything from the private sector and made it better?

Oooh Ooooh! pick me, pick me!

http://sixmeatbuffet.com/images/oooh-pick-me-mr-kotter.jpg

A: What is "no?"

GoSlash27
03-18-2010, 09:09 PM
Hey look! The sky is clearly falling...

If you're not outraged, you haven't been paying attention.
I don't know if you support universal health care or if you're against it, but I do know this:
You won't get it.
If this bill fails, you won't see your health care. If it passes, the government will go bankrupt and you still won't see your health care. Which do you prefer? :wave:

tony hipchest
03-18-2010, 09:28 PM
Has the government ever taken control of anything from the private sector and made it better?do you think the government should take over control of abortions from the private sector?

personally, i think they should take over the illegal drug trade from the private sector.

most right wing-dingers dont agree. :noidea:

Vincent
03-18-2010, 09:45 PM
personally, i think they should take over the illegal drug trade from the private sector. most right wing-dingers dont agree. :noidea:

If we had smart politicians we'd legalize drugs and tax the hell out of them. If drugs were domestically produced, controlled by the FDA, and taxed like tobacco and booze, druggies would be getting quality controlled primo @#$% at reasonable prices, and we'd have the new tax base that'd handsomely fund emergency facilities. The drug cartels would die on the vine. Crime would be reduced because much incentive to be a criminal would cease to exist. There would be two chickens in every garage and a Prius in every pot.

But then I'm not a "right wing-dinger".

HometownGal
03-18-2010, 09:49 PM
If you're not outraged, you haven't been paying attention.
I don't know if you support universal health care or if you're against it, but I do know this:
You won't get it.
If this bill fails, you won't see your health care. If it passes, the government will go bankrupt and you still won't see your health care. Which do you prefer? :wave:

http://pix.motivatedphotos.com/2008/11/5/633614834002150684-bendover.jpg

tony hipchest
03-18-2010, 10:17 PM
But then I'm not a "right wing-dinger".what is neat is how some people can be at such polar opposite ends of the spectrum on some issues, yet have mirror image beliefs on others, and respect the differences all the same.

as for your quoted post, it helps explain why i voted for a republican state governor, (who believes the same) during the clinton years (who i most definitely voted for).

NJarhead
03-18-2010, 10:27 PM
do you think the government should take over control of abortions from the private sector?

personally, i think they should take over the illegal drug trade from the private sector.

most right wing-dingers dont agree. :noidea:

what is neat is how some people can be at such polar opposite ends of the spectrum on some issues, yet have mirror image beliefs on others, and respect the differences all the same.



You said neat. What a fag. :chuckle: j/k

I won't speak on the abortion thing, but I would agree that illegal drugs should be treated like alcohol, Tobacco and/or prescription meds. And I'm not talking about crack or heroin obviously. I think the Gov't should regulate and tax it and then step back and let it be run by the pros.

There are some Lib things I agree with ..... sometimes. :chuckle: And I know your stance on gun control which makes you one of the better libbys.

Do you know the true definition of Liberalism Tone? It is actually more anti-gov't control than conservatism is. From the definitions of each alone, today I would say there are a lot of socialists running around calling themselves liberals and then there are liberals running around calling themselves Conservatives.

GBMelBlount
03-18-2010, 10:29 PM
tony hipchest

do you think the government should take over control of abortions from the private sector?

Do you think it would be right or ethical for a preteen to have an abortion without their parents knowledge and for it to be paid for by taxes that the parents are forced to pay?


tony hipchest

personally, i think they should take over the illegal drug trade from the private sector.

I think you could make a strong argument for the government regulating currently illegal drugs.

Now, back to our "freedom and liberty" discussion. Being that you recently mentioned that you STRONGLY believe in "freedom & liberty", I was just wondering how you feel Obama and his platform are consistent with those beliefs... :drink:

Vincent
03-18-2010, 10:30 PM
as for your quoted post, it helps explain why i voted for a republican state governor, (who believes the same) during the clinton years (who i most definitely voted for).

IMHO, its the only sane strategy. We aren't going to touch the problem with "just say no". We don't have the resources to effectively interdict, nor the apparent will. With that backdrop, I can't make an argument against "socializing" :sofunny: :flap::toofunny: illegal drugs.

Socialized stoogie. That'd make the left happy, right? What beautiful symmetry.

Vincent
03-18-2010, 10:36 PM
Do you know the true definition of Liberalism Tone? It is actually more anti-gov't control than conservatism is. From the definitions of each alone, today I would say there are a lot of socialists running around calling themselves liberals and then there are liberals running around calling themselves Conservatives.

Bullsear Catnip!! You speak of the "classical liberal", which I consider myself. What we call "liberals" are brain dead, barking at the Moon leftist ideologues.

That, I believe, is our common ground. No, not barking at the Moon. :chuckle:

NJarhead
03-18-2010, 10:56 PM
Bullsear Catnip!! You speak of the "classical liberal", which I consider myself. What we call "liberals" are brain dead, barking at the Moon leftist ideologues.

That, I believe, is our common ground. No, not barking at the Moon. :chuckle:

We may not be on the same page Vinny, but we're in the same chapter. :chuckle:

:drink:

7SteelGal43
03-18-2010, 10:58 PM
Nah, the R's will take over on a wave of voter outrage, then not have the balls to do the right thing and repeal Obamacare, then they'll let the big government RINOs run the show again and the D's will come back into power.


I think the RINO is an endangered species. :chuckle:

tony hipchest
03-18-2010, 11:07 PM
Do you think it would be right or ethical for a preteen to have an abortion without their parents knowledge and for it to be paid for by taxes that the parents are forced to pay?



I think you could make a strong argument for the government regulating currently illegal drugs.

Now, back to our "freedom and liberty" discussion. Being that you recently mentioned that you STRONGLY believe in "freedom & liberty", I was just wondering how you feel Obama and his platform are consistent with those beliefs... :drink:you have done nothing but answer a question with a question and coupled that with a deflection towards a "discussion" we are supposedly having, that is not even taking place in theis thread. :doh:

i STRONGLY beleive any person has the freedom and liberty to do whatever they want with their body, whether that be abortion, drugs, or suicide.

for any govt to step in and say they cant infringes on my core beliefs. it is akin to the govt telling me which God, i may or may not worship.

the fact that suicide is illegal, or that the respectable dr. jack kevorkian served PRISON time baffles me.

and while i would never get an abortion myself (were i a woman), or commit suicide, and while i worship the same Chrisian God of conservative republicans, i would never support the freedoms and liberties i speak of above, being extinguished. obama feels the same.

and i feel sorry for anyone who cannot/will not/ refuses to respect/ wishes to legislate my freedoms and liberties to feel that way (such as yourself) :smile:

but youve beaten this dead horse and ive explained myself a thousand times. its about time for you to let it go, friend. :wave:

now that we're back on topic would you just please answer the question?


do you think the government should take over control of abortions from the private sector?

or am i to assume that you would prefer the govt stay out of it altogether as you so stronly insinuated...



Has the government ever taken control of anything from the private sector and made it better?

this double talk baffles me and is in desperate need of clarification so i do not misconstrue your core beliefs. :chuckle:

tony hipchest
03-18-2010, 11:17 PM
You said neat. What a fag. :chuckle: j/k

.

:sofunny:

http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q23/shortyshane_2006/05.jpg


:wink02:

tony hipchest
03-19-2010, 12:03 AM
IMHO, its the only sane strategy. We aren't going to touch the problem with "just say no". We don't have the resources to effectively interdict, nor the apparent will. With that backdrop, I can't make an argument against "socializing" :sofunny: :flap::toofunny: illegal drugs.

Socialized stoogie. That'd make the left happy, right? What beautiful symmetry.

oh... stoppit, before you make me agree with you and blush.

http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q23/shortyshane_2006/monkay.jpg

tony hipchest
03-19-2010, 12:18 AM
Do you think it would be right or ethical for a preteen to have an abortion without their parents knowledge and for it to be paid for by taxes that the parents are forced to pay?


i see you are suggesting a 2 parent household where both parents are "forced" to pay taxes. (the smart people find the loopholes and get away with not paying taxes, and that sort of "capitalism" should be applauded).

well in that case, maybe i think it is ethical to call both parents complete failures and not only should they be punished and fined, but they should be forced to pay for the procedure itself.

if that means losing the lexus and the white picket fenced house in the suburbs, and denying the other 1.3 children a cell phone and a new pair of nike kicks, then so be it. :smile:

what do you think about that?

MACH1
03-19-2010, 12:22 AM
The IRS will be in charge of obaaamacare, If that doesn't make your butt pucker I don't know what will.

I-Want-Troy's-Hair
03-19-2010, 01:05 AM
They need to shove this health care reform up their ass*s....

.....oh they're shoving it up our ass*s.

This government is nothing but liar's cheats and whor*s....literally.

I hope they all rot in hell, enjoy your window seats fellas because the view is going to change in November.

Oh right they are getting ready to jam another bill right down our throats on the heels of this one that will give citizenship to 30 million illegals (and more votes to the Democrats in November). Seems Osama Obama cut a deal with Luis Gutierrez the illegal lover in Ill.

"In Washington's time-honored tradition, the conversations with the president ranged widely. Rep. Luis Gutierrez of Illinois said he agreed to vote for the health care overhaul on the understanding that Obama and congressional Democrats would begin attempts quickly to pass comprehensive immigration legislation. Within hours, Senate Democrats unveiled a bill, and the president praised it in a written statement."

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100319/ap_on_bi_ge/us_health_care_overhaul

Yes LIARS CHEATS WHOR*S This makes me so angry I could spit.

GBMelBlount
03-19-2010, 07:25 AM
GBMelBlount

Do you think it would be right or ethical for a preteen to have an abortion without their parents knowledge and for it to be paid for by taxes that the parents are forced to pay?


Tony Hipchest

well in that case, maybe i think it is ethical to call both parents complete failures and not only should they be punished and fined, but they should be forced to pay for the procedure itself.

what do you think about that?

Well, it sounds like you approve of it so we will simply agree to disagree.

Fire Haley
03-19-2010, 03:20 PM
We are now officially a banana republic

House Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) revealed that a package of amendments to the Senate-passed health care bill would include a new tax on unearned income. Pelosi said this tax would cover all unearned income, “whatever category that is.”

steelax04
03-19-2010, 03:37 PM
We are now officially a banana republic

House Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) revealed that a package of amendments to the Senate-passed health care bill would include a new tax on unearned income. Pelosi said this tax would cover all unearned income, “whatever category that is.”

This is for people making over $200,000 a year or $250,000 for couples...

smokin3000gt
03-19-2010, 04:05 PM
I have a really really bad feeling about Sunday...

NJarhead
03-19-2010, 04:18 PM
This is for people making over $200,000 a year or $250,000 for couples...

That doesn't make sense.

7SteelGal43
03-19-2010, 04:45 PM
to sum up everything said or written about this healthcare plan..........." ok, bend over "

MACH1
03-19-2010, 05:01 PM
http://rlv.zcache.com/anti_obama_bend_over_for_change_bumper_sticker-p128711788506555798trl0_400.jpg


http://www.motifake.com/image/demotivational-poster/small/0909/obamacare-funny-humor-obama-healthcare-demotivational-poster-1253502888.jpg

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_Ek0TdUtS6yM/SlyZIeNccCI/AAAAAAAAB88/YdUYev_nm4M/s400/obama_care2.jpg

steelax04
03-19-2010, 05:19 PM
That doesn't make sense.

Should have put this in with my post...

From: http://www.webcpa.com/news/Health-Reconciliation-Bill-Adjusts-Taxes-53631-1.html

There is also a 3.8 percent tax on unearned income, including dividends and interest, for individuals making over $200,000 per year, or couples making over $250,000 a year.

NJarhead
03-19-2010, 05:23 PM
Should have put this in with my post...

From: http://www.webcpa.com/news/Health-Reconciliation-Bill-Adjusts-Taxes-53631-1.html

There is also a 3.8 percent tax on unearned income, including dividends and interest, for individuals making over $200,000 per year, or couples making over $250,000 a year.

That's what I was figuring. Still hadn't had a chance to look it up myself. I was keying in on the "unearned income" thing. Thanks :thumbsup:

Unfortunately, I'll never fall into that $200,000 - $250,000 category. :noidea:

Fire Haley
03-19-2010, 05:25 PM
"I'd Love To Change The World"

Everywhere is freaks and hairies
Dykes and fairies, tell me where is sanity
Tax the rich, feed the poor
Till there are no rich no more

I'd love to change the world
But I don't know what to do
So I'll leave it up to you

Population keeps on breeding
Nation bleeding, still more feeding economy
Life is funny, skies are sunny
Bees make honey, who needs money, Monopoly

I'd love to change the world
But I don't know what to do
So I'll leave it up to you

World pollution, there's no solution
Institution, electrocution
Just black and white, rich or poor
Them and us, stop the war

I'd love to change the world
But I don't know what to do
So I'll leave it up to you

Vincent
03-19-2010, 10:10 PM
oh... stoppit, before you make me agree with you and blush.

http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q23/shortyshane_2006/monkay.jpg

Don't toy with my emotions you, you bitch!

MACH1
03-20-2010, 04:04 AM
http://www.jeffhead.com/obama/OrgHealthCare.jpg

Vincent
03-20-2010, 10:50 AM
http://combatblog.net/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/000hitler_obama_0.jpg

MACH1
03-20-2010, 01:07 PM
http://www.jeffhead.com/obama/DrObama.jpg


Enjoying your last day as a free American?

GoSlash27
03-20-2010, 05:48 PM
Re. all the posters:
This sort of thing really isn't necessary, and detracts from the rational argument against ObamaCare. Barack Obama is not the Joker from the Batman movie, and he's not Adolf Hitler. He is just a misguided liberal trying to do what he thinks is "right".

Could we please dispense with all the Godwin attacks? They turn people off.

MACH1
03-20-2010, 06:06 PM
http://www.jeffhead.com/obama/Obama-Frankly.jpg

7SteelGal43
03-20-2010, 06:21 PM
Re. all the posters:
This sort of thing really isn't necessary, and detracts from the rational argument against ObamaCare. Barack Obama is not the Joker from the Batman movie, and he's not Adolf Hitler. He is just a misguided liberal trying to do what he thinks is "right".

Could we please dispense with all the Godwin attacks? They turn people off.


And Hitler was just a misguided socialist trying to do what he thought was "right" :thumbsup:


.......like taking control of your life from cradle to grave, government control, "serve the state and receive your rations"...............how exactly is Obama (and his lib henchmen) different from Hitler ?

SteelCityMom
03-20-2010, 06:52 PM
how exactly is Obama (and his lib henchmen) different from Hitler ?

They aren't stripping people naked, shooting them to death, throwing them in a pit and then setting them on fire? :noidea:

I dislike Obama, but lets not compare him to Hitler or Stalin.

Are there things that need to change in this country? Of course, but lets not pretend like we're being taken over by some lunatic despot who means to exterminate people who oppose him. That's disrespectful to the millions of men, women and children who actually had to suffer through those horrors.

MACH1
03-20-2010, 06:55 PM
http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a319/fladj11/Obama%2013/ObamaHealthCare.jpg

GoSlash27
03-21-2010, 09:26 AM
If it's gonna pass, it'll pass today. After that, it's Constitutionality will be challenged on several points in the courts and at this moment 39 states have threatened to sue.

Vincent
03-21-2010, 10:31 AM
They aren't stripping people naked, shooting them to death, throwing them in a pit and then setting them on fire? :noidea:

I dislike Obama, but lets not compare him to Hitler or Stalin.

Are there things that need to change in this country? Of course, but lets not pretend like we're being taken over by some lunatic despot who means to exterminate people who oppose him. That's disrespectful to the millions of men, women and children who actually had to suffer through those horrors.

Yet.

The emergence of hitler occurred close to 80 years ago. Its a blurry memory to even those that are old enough to remember it. The only "history" taught on the subject is framed in the war and the associated atrocities, and then as the acts of "fascists". That is quite by design. Because when folks that do understand the history point to similar personalities and agendas, they are panned as ignorant, or extreme.

I grew up in a time when the war was very recent and still in thought and conversation. I have known many, both young and old, that survived the nazis, some that fought for the nazis, and some that were nazis. I have studied that era and the players since the 60s. I lived in Germany in the early 70s. I have seen the "machinery" and the camps. I. personally, am not ignorant of what I speak. Nor is Kitty Werthmann's account of what she personally experienced "ignorance".

To the contrary, to suggest that there is no commonality to hitler and bho is colossally ignorant. Public school has done its job well.

Why not? the comparison is there to be made. But there are definite similarities in personality, agenda, and "MO". And the comparison to both hitler and stalin applies because of stage of development. socialism is a continuum. hitler emerged from a small fringe socialist group to seize the chancellery and reichstag using similar political tactics, albeit more violent. Once he had established and consolidated his power, he quickly became the despot that history depicts. stalin inherited a totalitarian regime, so he was "free" to operate as an established despot right out of the gate.

As I have noted in another thread, I have no doubt that once established with the same choke hold on the country, bho will be every bit the despot the other two were, and probably worse. Its his nature.

I think its disrespectful to ignore what happened to these people and allow it to happen again.

chacha
03-21-2010, 10:34 AM
"I'd Love To Change The World"

Everywhere is freaks and hairies
Dykes and fairies, tell me where is sanity
Tax the rich, feed the poor
Till there are no rich no more





Is this a real song or something? Interesting wods, if not a bit rude and mean spirited. Seeing that most of the country is already poor but the rich control everything, I dont think you need to worry about the rich going anywhere anytime soon!

chacha
03-21-2010, 10:39 AM
Re. all the posters:
This sort of thing really isn't necessary, and detracts from the rational argument against ObamaCare. Barack Obama is not the Joker from the Batman movie, and he's not Adolf Hitler. He is just a misguided liberal trying to do what he thinks is "right".

Could we please dispense with all the Godwin attacks? They turn people off.

they really do. I am a little concerned about some of the things I'm seeing here. He is still our president after all and was elected fair and square. Some of us have to get used to that. If we disagree we can use reason and logic, not fear and slander campaigns. Seeing some of these nazi posts is very disconcerting.

theplatypus
03-21-2010, 11:10 AM
Is this a real song or something? Interesting wods, if not a bit rude and mean spirited. Seeing that most of the country is already poor but the rich control everything, I dont think you need to worry about the rich going anywhere anytime soon!

Yes, it's a real song, but it's being used completely out of context.
jzrUqAtUcpU

GBMelBlount
03-21-2010, 11:13 AM
..and lyrics aside, I think it is great tune. :thumbsup:

theplatypus
03-21-2010, 11:16 AM
..and lyrics aside, I think it is great tune. :thumbsup:

Maybe it should be added to the "what are you listening too thread".

GBMelBlount
03-21-2010, 11:20 AM
Maybe it should be added to the "what are you listening too thread".

Actually, I posted it there a few days ago, to which Steelerstrength responded to me with the song "Quit your crying, bitch" :chuckle:

theplatypus
03-21-2010, 11:27 AM
Actually, I posted it there a few days ago, to which Steelerstrength responded to me with the song "Quit your crying, bitch" :chuckle:

Oh, I haven't looked in there in a week or so.

GoSlash27
03-21-2010, 11:41 AM
Why not? the comparison is there to be made.
Because as I said, it turns people off.
We are out there working our tails off trying to get things turned around and convince people to join us. The opposition doesn't have a credible argument to counter ours, but they do make use of these sort of things to attempt to paint us as out-on-the-fringe loonies, birthers, racists, etc.

It may be emotionally satisfying to post these things, but nobody is going to look at them and think "gee... ya know, Obama really *is* like Hitler". What they think is "why on Earth should I listen to these people".

So *PLEASE*! You hate this bill and I hate this bill. If you really want to help us stop this thing, please stop providing the opposition fodder for their ad hominem argument.

chacha
03-21-2010, 11:49 AM
..and lyrics aside, I think it is great tune. :thumbsup:

yes it is! I didnt even recognize it with those other lyrics! Alvin Lee was really underrated.

GBMelBlount
03-21-2010, 11:53 AM
yes it is! I didnt even recognize it with those other lyrics! Alvin Lee was really underrated.

Absolutely!

In fact, I LOVE the music from that era in general. :drink:

GBMelBlount
03-21-2010, 11:56 AM
Oh, I haven't looked in there in a week or so.

Admittedly, Me & Galax have pretty much "cornered" (:chuckle:) that thread with an occasional few from SCMom & Tony, etc.

I really enjoy seeing what music people like.

chacha
03-21-2010, 11:56 AM
Absolutely!

In fact, I LOVE the music from that era in general. :drink:

:drink: I couldnt agree more!

SteelCityMom
03-21-2010, 02:12 PM
Yet.

The emergence of hitler occurred close to 80 years ago. Its a blurry memory to even those that are old enough to remember it. The only "history" taught on the subject is framed in the war and the associated atrocities, and then as the acts of "fascists". That is quite by design. Because when folks that do understand the history point to similar personalities and agendas, they are panned as ignorant, or extreme.

I grew up in a time when the war was very recent and still in thought and conversation. I have known many, both young and old, that survived the nazis, some that fought for the nazis, and some that were nazis. I have studied that era and the players since the 60s. I lived in Germany in the early 70s. I have seen the "machinery" and the camps. I. personally, am not ignorant of what I speak. Nor is Kitty Werthmann's account of what she personally experienced "ignorance".

First off, don't belittle me and pretend I don't know what happened in that era. I do. My grandparents on my fathers side are German immigrants (and were VERY lucky to get out when they did...they lost many friends and family to the war) and my other grandfather fought in WWII and my great-grandfather fought in WWI (on my mothers side). I grew up learning the history. I also never said Kitty Werthmann's accounts were ignorant, I never said anything about her account. I feel for what she went through. So don't lay that on me.


To the contrary, to suggest that there is no commonality to hitler and bho is colossally ignorant. Public school has done its job well.

It's been asked a few times and no one has given an answer, but how is instilling a single-payer health system (much like Canada and other countries who do not have a socialist regime) equal Nazi Germany? I'd like some examples.

Why not? the comparison is there to be made. But there are definite similarities in personality, agenda, and "MO". And the comparison to both hitler and stalin applies because of stage of development. socialism is a continuum. hitler emerged from a small fringe socialist group to seize the chancellery and reichstag using similar political tactics, albeit more violent. Once he had established and consolidated his power, he quickly became the despot that history depicts. stalin inherited a totalitarian regime, so he was "free" to operate as an established despot right out of the gate.

Again, this is very ignorant. Other than hating the health care bill, what other examples of an impending totalitarian regime can you give, and why haven't other countries that have had this kind of health care system turned into a bloody socialist regime?

As I have noted in another thread, I have no doubt that once established with the same choke hold on the country, bho will be every bit the despot the other two were, and probably worse. Its his nature.

How do you figure? You need to give reasons with these baseless rationales. Given the opinion of the people of this country, it's most likely that BHO will not be reelected in 2 years, in which time he'll be nothing more than a person that makes the same kind of public appearances that Clinton, Bush and other former presidents before him make. How horrifying!

I think its disrespectful to ignore what happened to these people and allow it to happen again.

Of course it's disrespectful to ignore what happened to those people. It's also disrespectful to trivialize what they went through to the point that an elected president who only has the power to be in office for a maximum of 8 years becomes a bloodthirsty madman. Paying to much in taxes DOES NOT equal concentration camps, genocide and the murder of millions. Quit acting like it does.

Lastly, I want you to know that I pretty much agree with you about the health care bill. I do not think it's the right way to fix the health care problem in the US, but it does not mean that BHO is going to somehow turn into a Hitler or a Stalin figure. BHO is just trying an approach (although an unpopular one in this country) to healthcare that has been used in many other NON-SOCIALIST nations for decades now.

MACH1
03-21-2010, 11:08 PM
How far do you think the market will sink in the morning? Since this monstrosity has passed.

RunWillieRun
03-21-2010, 11:12 PM
How far do you think the market will sink in the morning? Since this monstrosity has passed.



I bet 500 points at opening.

Shea
03-21-2010, 11:33 PM
Oh my God to some of the shit flying in these political threads.

Vincent, are you sober when you post? I'm serious.

Comparisons to Hitler and the road he once paved being one that Obama is looking to skip down himself is so stupid and insensitive, most notably to the millions of people that lost their lives along that road to hell, and it is oozing in paranoia and blind hatred.

I get and even respect that quite a few of you here aren't fans of the current president but Christ almight, your hatred is taking you into a dark, irrational place within your own minds. Let's stop getting carried away and come back to earth to discuss these issues within a world we all should share - REALITY!

RunWillieRun
03-21-2010, 11:37 PM
Congrats, America. You just hired with your tax dollars 16,000 more IRS bureaucrats to steal more of your liberty.

MACH1
03-21-2010, 11:42 PM
Congrats, America. You just hired with your tax dollars 16,000 more IRS bureaucrats to steal more of your liberty.

Oh, your just being irrational and paranoid. It's like more like 17,000 give or take.

Can't wait for the IRS to tell me which doctor to see.


Also good luck getting a student loan through the one and only bank in S.Dokota that can give them out now.

steelpinstripe72
03-22-2010, 12:00 AM
This. I do not want the feds in control of my health care and health care decisions, plain and simple.

EDIT: OK, here's one example from your link here - requiring coverage of children up to age 26. Are you kidding me??? At that age, they damn well better have their own job with their own health benefits, because - get this - THEY AREN'T KIDS ANYMORE! There's no reason whatsoever why we should be covering any child over 18. It's ridiculous, creates unnecessary spending and will drive up the cost of premiums since the insurance companies will have to abide by the provision...that is, if they will even be allowed to increase premiums.

I agree with the first part. The second part? Having your own job at 26 is easier said than done...especially in this economy and especially if you're someone like me. I have a college education (a bachelors and a masters), yet am still not considered employable. Why? Because people see me walk into an interview with a limp and a lazy eye and they have their minds made up before the interview even starts. I have 55B status here in New York State, which means state agencies have to interview me if I return my canvass letter, stating I'm interested in an interview, with a copy of my 55B letter. This does not mean they have to hire me. Think of it as the Rooney Rule, except for people with disabilities. I've had four interviews in the last two weeks. 4 interviews, 4 rejection letters/emails/phone calls. But anyway. I still hate this bill, because you watch - someone will finally hire me and then I'll still be screwed over for health insurance.

By the way, anyone who has managed to work full time so that they have health insurance at 18 and still get their college degree in a timely fashion (read: 4 years, give or take a year) - I applaud you.

Godfather
03-22-2010, 01:07 AM
Oh my God to some of the shit flying in these political threads.

Vincent, are you sober when you post? I'm serious.

Comparisons to Hitler and the road he once paved being one that Obama is looking to skip down himself is so stupid and insensitive, most notably to the millions of people that lost their lives along that road to hell, and it is oozing in paranoia and blind hatred.

I get and even respect that quite a few of you here aren't fans of the current president but Christ almight, your hatred is taking you into a dark, irrational place within your own minds. Let's stop getting carried away and come back to earth to discuss these issues within a world we all should share - REALITY!

Thank you!

I'm furious with Obama and the Democrats. But I can't tolerate Hitler and Stalin comparisons. My family suffered at the hands of the Axis Powers (Mussolini).

7SteelGal43
03-22-2010, 02:01 AM
A question for you Libs and Dems


I'm just curious. How do you feel knowing that the Dems in the House passed a piece of legislation that over 70% of the American people were against ? Wether you were for or against this particular healthcare bill, does the fact that they completely ignored the voice of the American people bother you at all ?

I_Bleed_Black_And_Gold
03-22-2010, 02:33 AM
You're all just being irrational. The Government is more than able to provide for us.

Medicare and Medicaid are wonderful and Social Security is working great with no signs of running out :thumbsup: and

I_Bleed_Black_And_Gold
03-22-2010, 02:34 AM
A question for you Libs and Dems


I'm just curious. How do you feel knowing that the Dems in the House passed a piece of legislation that over 70% of the American people were against ? Wether you were for or against this particular healthcare bill, does the fact that they completely ignored the voice of the American people bother you at all ?

Where did you get 70%?

To be fair the latest Rasmussen I have seen showed that 56% were against (still the majority).

SteelerNation12
03-22-2010, 03:39 AM
Aww not all the idiots who were for this will see how bad it really is. For us that have health care, I wonder how much we will be forced to pay now that our company plan will be moot in a few years. Not to mention the job losses from this will be huge. Have fun while family member can't be operated on because the waiting list is too long and will take years to make it you

Preacher
03-22-2010, 03:46 AM
I only wish this sick joke called "reform" was funny.
5H59Py7KApU

Godfather
03-22-2010, 09:53 AM
Aww not all the idiots who were for this will see how bad it really is. For us that have health care, I wonder how much we will be forced to pay now that our company plan will be moot in a few years. Not to mention the job losses from this will be huge. Have fun while family member can't be operated on because the waiting list is too long and will take years to make it you

Here ya go. Straight facts, not emotion and Kool Aid drinking, from a guy who opposed this bill from the left:

http://www.aolnews.com/healthcare/article/opinion-eighteen-myths-about-the-health-reform-bill-debunked/19406480

HometownGal
03-22-2010, 10:05 AM
Here ya go. Straight facts, not emotion and Kool Aid drinking, from a guy who opposed this bill from the left:

http://www.aolnews.com/healthcare/article/opinion-eighteen-myths-about-the-health-reform-bill-debunked/19406480

Thank you for posting the facts, Godfather.

I said it before this atrocious bill was passed and I haven't changed my mind since it was passed . . .

America - bend over.

X-Terminator
03-22-2010, 11:03 AM
Here ya go. Straight facts, not emotion and Kool Aid drinking, from a guy who opposed this bill from the left:

http://www.aolnews.com/healthcare/article/opinion-eighteen-myths-about-the-health-reform-bill-debunked/19406480

So in other words, government enforcement and control with no real change or benefit for the American people.

Color me shocked.


















NOT.

This bill is awful, it does NOTHING to reform the system and the higher taxes will ultimately kill small businesses and bankrupt this nation. And when I think of my Mother and all of her health problems...it just makes me even more angry that this bill was passed.

But no, we're all just paranoid and are bitching because a Democrat is in the White House. :jerkit:

X-Terminator
03-22-2010, 11:10 AM
I agree with the first part. The second part? Having your own job at 26 is easier said than done...especially in this economy and especially if you're someone like me. I have a college education (a bachelors and a masters), yet am still not considered employable. Why? Because people see me walk into an interview with a limp and a lazy eye and they have their minds made up before the interview even starts. I have 55B status here in New York State, which means state agencies have to interview me if I return my canvass letter, stating I'm interested in an interview, with a copy of my 55B letter. This does not mean they have to hire me. Think of it as the Rooney Rule, except for people with disabilities. I've had four interviews in the last two weeks. 4 interviews, 4 rejection letters/emails/phone calls. But anyway. I still hate this bill, because you watch - someone will finally hire me and then I'll still be screwed over for health insurance.

By the way, anyone who has managed to work full time so that they have health insurance at 18 and still get their college degree in a timely fashion (read: 4 years, give or take a year) - I applaud you.

Obviously I spoke a bit too soon here. There are exceptions to everything, and you are a prime example.

OK, I'd be willing to extend coverage beyond 18, but I'd cut the kids off at 24. At that point, it should be reasonable to expect them to have a job and their own health insurance. The fact that you have 2 degrees and are deliberately being discriminated against because you have a disability, however, is unconscionable IMO. Yeah, they can give just about any reason not to hire you, but still, that's a damn shame.

MACH1
03-22-2010, 11:54 AM
Obviously I spoke a bit too soon here. There are exceptions to everything, and you are a prime example.

OK, I'd be willing to extend coverage beyond 18, but I'd cut the kids off at 24. At that point, it should be reasonable to expect them to have a job and their own health insurance. The fact that you have 2 degrees and are deliberately being discriminated against because you have a disability, however, is unconscionable IMO. Yeah, they can give just about any reason not to hire you, but still, that's a damn shame.

Cut them off at 21(unless in college). Old enough to drink, old enough to be responsible for your own ass.

Fire Haley
03-22-2010, 01:11 PM
Dems Chant 'Yes We Can!' As House Passes Health Bill

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Padmé: "So this is how liberty dies... with thunderous applause." "What if the democracy we thought we were serving no longer exists, and the Republic has become the very evil we've been fighting to destroy?"

SCSTILLER
03-22-2010, 01:37 PM
You're all just being irrational. The Government is more than able to provide for us.

Medicare and Medicaid are wonderful and Social Security is working great with no signs of running out :thumbsup: and


That there is just a scary thought

SteelCityMom
03-22-2010, 02:00 PM
How far do you think the market will sink in the morning? Since this monstrosity has passed.

Not far at all apparently...

Health care companies pull stock market higher
Stocks rise after advance in health companies; Insurers, drug makers lead broad advance

Health stocks lifted the market Monday following House approval of an overhaul bill that would extend insurance to millions.

The Dow Jones industrial average rose about 60 points in afternoon trading. Broader indexes also climbed.

Investors had expected the health care bill would pass the House, but the approval late Sunday removed uncertainty about the rules that would govern the industry. A companion bill now goes back to the Senate. The changes could have far-reaching effects on health companies.

Hospital operators Tenet Healthcare Corp. and Health Management Associates Inc. each rose more than 8 percent.

In early afternoon trading, the Dow rose 59.78, or 0.6 percent, to 10,801.76. The Standard & Poor's 500 index rose 6.96, or 0.6 percent, to 1,166.86, while the Nasdaq composite index rose 20.67, or 0.9 percent, to 2,395.08.

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Health-care-companies-pull-apf-3967866434.html?x=0&sec=topStories&pos=main&asset=&ccode=


I STILL don't like the bill at all, but it doesn't seem to have negatively affected wall street at all...not yet at least.

steelax04
03-22-2010, 02:51 PM
I STILL don't like the bill at all, but it doesn't seem to have negatively affected wall street at all...not yet at least.

I'm not sure why it would affect the stock prices of the companies that are going to make HUGE bank off of this bill... The oil companies made huge profits without legislation from the Feds and there was a huge public outcry. Wonder what's going to happen when the insurance and medical companies make crazy profits because of the Fed's legislation.

MACH1
03-22-2010, 02:57 PM
I'm not sure why it would affect the stock prices of the companies that are going to make HUGE bank off of this bill... The oil companies made huge profits without legislation from the Feds and there was a huge public outcry. Wonder what's going to happen when the insurance and medical companies make crazy profits because of the Fed's legislation.

Thats about when they go out of business with the "public option" that will get passed to control insurance costs.

fansince'76
03-22-2010, 02:59 PM
I'm not sure why it would affect the stock prices of the companies that are going to make HUGE bank off of this bill... The oil companies made huge profits without legislation from the Feds and there was a huge public outcry. Wonder what's going to happen when the insurance and medical companies make crazy profits because of the Fed's legislation.

Yep. 30 million+ new customers and higher premiums for everyone due to the inability to deny coverage to anyone.

Change we can believe in! :drink: <- Kool-Aid

lamberts-lost-tooth
03-22-2010, 03:04 PM
I STILL don't like the bill at all, but it doesn't seem to have negatively affected wall street at all...not yet at least.

Im not surprised....economists were saying from the beginning that the "evil" Big Corporations would gain from Healthcare Reform...especially the big drug companies.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB125590875879693189.html?mod=rss_whats_news_us

It was these same drug companies that threw their support in the direction of Martha Coakley (the senator that eventually lost her seat in Massachusetts)
http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/blogs/beltway-confidential/Coakley-in-trouble-Pharma-and-HMO-lobbyists-to-the-rescue-81067542.html

...and the same pharmaceutical lobby that cut a deal with the White House in regards to to limiting the drug industry’s total costs under the proposed health care overhaul....saving them $80 billion over 10 years.
http://www.rhrealitycheck.org/blog/2010/02/11/top-pharmaceutical-lobbyist-quits-crafted-deal-white-house-health-reform

...and the same pharmaceutical lobby who are tied to Max Baucus, the chair of the Senate Finance Committee, Sen. who was instrumental in crafting health care reform legislation (in fact 10 of the 13 Democrats who were on this committee have former staffers who now are pharmaceutical lobbyists)
http://www.sunlightfoundation.com/projects/2009/healthcare_lobbyist_complex/

How much did the lobbyist need this reform? They have paid Baucus $2,797,381 over his career and in 2008 alone gave him $1,148,775 .
It was this lobby that was adament against any form of public option.

steelerdude15
03-22-2010, 05:33 PM
Cut them off at 21(unless in college). Old enough to drink, old enough to be responsible for your own ass.
Agreed. :yep: I feel that unless you have your own job, you can still be under your parents health insurance if your still in college. If you have a full time blue collar job, then you should buy your own. But... there are people who only go to college just for their parent's insurance, it's like, your already there, get an education and stop screwing around.

steelpinstripe72
03-22-2010, 11:48 PM
No worries XT...I'm the one that's late to the party :) Been a little crazy in my neck of the woods lately. In reference to the kids who only go to college to keep their parents' insurance - in NY, if one or both parents is a state employee (an employee of NYS - the kid can go to college anywhere in the country), their children are covered by state insurance as long as they're in school - until they turn 25. Whether they're done with school or not, it ends at 25. But I've definitely heard of kids doing what steelerdude15's talking about. Oi...

Godfather
03-23-2010, 10:37 AM
No worries XT...I'm the one that's late to the party :) Been a little crazy in my neck of the woods lately. In reference to the kids who only go to college to keep their parents' insurance - in NY, if one or both parents is a state employee (an employee of NYS - the kid can go to college anywhere in the country), their children are covered by state insurance as long as they're in school - until they turn 25. Whether they're done with school or not, it ends at 25. But I've definitely heard of kids doing what steelerdude15's talking about. Oi...

It's cheaper to buy insurance than go to college. A young, healthy individual can get a policy for under $100 a month in Mississippi and under $200 in Louisiana. Even in the Deep South a public education is $5000 a year just for tuition, and school takes up time that could be spent earning a paycheck (ie there's an opportunity cost too).

The reason they have that provision is to hide the real effects of Obamacare from the naive Kool-Aid drinkers. Imagine how angry they would be if the dust settled and they were forced to buy insurance from a private company, at a price grossly inflated by the new regulations. Now they can stay on their parents' insurance and have no idea they got played like a fiddle.

WH
03-23-2010, 02:33 PM
Looking anywhere and everywhere I can't find anything about the new health bill except for this

http://personalmoneystore.com/moneyblog/2010/03/22/new-health-care-bill-summary-basics-health-care-reform/

Are there any provisions in the bill that protect consumers from Insurance companies that will undoubtedly be jumping their prices now that people have to have insurance?

Are there any rough drafts of the kinds of coverage you would get from the US government?

xXTheSteelKingsXx
03-23-2010, 03:48 PM
Looking anywhere and everywhere I can't find anything about the new health bill except for this

http://personalmoneystore.com/moneyblog/2010/03/22/new-health-care-bill-summary-basics-health-care-reform/

Are there any provisions in the bill that protect consumers from Insurance companies that will undoubtedly be jumping their prices now that people have to have insurance?

Are there any rough drafts of the kinds of coverage you would get from the US government?

My political science profesor recomended this site to me.

http://www.factcheck.org/

I like it. The site is non partisan and it does a good job at debunking falsehoods.

Here is a more recent article on the healthcare bill (March 19). Hope it helps some.

http://www.factcheck.org/2010/03/a-final-weekend-of-whoppers/

xXTheSteelKingsXx
03-23-2010, 04:15 PM
Also after a quick wiki search here are some provisions (Wikipedia so not sure the accuracy).

Effective six months after passage

*All insurers are fully prohibited from discriminating against or charging higher rates for children based on pre-existing conditions.
*Adults with pre-existing conditions will be eligible to join a temporary high-risk pool, which will be superseded by the health care exchange in 2014.
*Children and young adults will be permitted to remain on their parents' insurance plan until their 26th birthday.
*Insurers are prohibited from charging co-pays or deductibles for preventive care and medical screenings on all new insurance plans.
*Individuals affected by the Medicare Part D coverage gap will receive a $250 rebate, and 50 percent of the gap will be eliminated in 2011.
*Insurers' abilities to enforce annual spending caps will be restricted, and completely prohibited by 2014.
*Insurers are prohibited from dropping policy holders when they get sick.
*Insurers are required to reveal details about administrative and executive expenditures.
*Insurers are required to implement an appeals process for coverage determination and claims on all new plans.
*Indoor tanning services are subjected to a 10 percent service tax.
*Enhanced methods of fraud detection are implemented.
*Medicare is expanded to small, rural hospitals and facilities.
*Non-profit Blue Cross insurers are required to maintain a loss ratio (money spent on procedures over money incoming) of 85 percent or higher to take advantage of IRS tax benefits.
*Companies which provide early retiree benefits for individuals aged 55-64 are eligible to participate in a temporary program which reduces premium costs.
*A new website installed by the Secretary of Health and Human Services will provide consumer insurance information for individuals and small businesses in all states.
*A temporary credit program is established to encourage private investment in new therapies for disease treatment and prevention.

Effective by 2014

*All insurers are fully prohibited from discriminating against or charging higher rates for adult individuals based on pre-existing medical conditions.
*All insurers are fully prohibited from establishing annual spending caps.
*Expand Medicaid eligibility; individuals with income up to 133 percent of the poverty line qualify for coverage
*Establish health insurance exchanges, and subsidization of insurance premiums for individuals with income up to 400 percent of the poverty line.
*Offer tax credits to small businesses who have fewer than 25 employees and provide health care benefits for them.
*Impose a tax penalty on employers with over fifty employees who do not offer health insurance to their workers.
*Impose an annual fine on individuals who do not obtain health insurance; exemptions to fine in cases of financial hardship or religious beliefs.
*Creation of a new voluntary long-term care insurance program.
*Creation of tax credits for individuals who purchase private insurance policies
*Employed individuals who pay more than 9.5 percent of their income on health insurance premiums will be permitted to purchase insurance policies from a state-controlled health insurance option
*Pay for new spending, in part, through spending and coverage cuts in Medicare Advantage, slowing the growth of Medicare provider payments, reducing Medicare and Medicaid drug reimbursement rate, cutting other Medicare and Medicaid spending.
*Revenue increases from a new $2,500 limit on tax-free contributions to flexible spending accounts (FSAs), which allow for payment of health costs. Raising various taxes, and creating a new excise tax for high cost "Cadillac" insurance plans.
*Chain restaurants and food vendors with 20 or more locations are required to display the caloric content of their foods on menus, drive-through menus, and vending machines. Additional information, such as saturated fat, carbohydrate, and sodium content, must also be made available upon request.

Effective by 2018

*All existing health insurance plans must cover preventative care and checkups without co-payment.

HometownGal
03-23-2010, 10:23 PM
Same goes for this thread which was started before the vote on Sunday. It stands.