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GBMelBlount
03-17-2010, 05:11 PM
Pittsburgh Considers Tax On Soda, Energy Drinks

Posted: 10:42 pm EDT March 16,2010Updated: 6:05 pm EDT March 17,2010

PITTSBURGH -- Most stores have entire aisles dedicated to sports drinks and soda. Now, Pittsburgh Mayor Luke Ravenstahl is showing an interest in the idea of adding a tax to these drinks.

A tax on sugar-sweetened beverages is already is being considered in Philadelphia.

Channel 11's news exchange partners at TribLive received a copy of a letter Ravenstahl sent to Philadelphia's mayor this week.

"Like Philadelphia and many other cities across the nation, Pittsburgh continues to seek policies that encourage our residents to maintain healthy lifestyles," Ravenstahl wrote, according to the Trib.

Pamela Rodrigues, who had just finished shopping at a Shadyside grocery store, liked the proposal.

"I just think it's great, because it's taxing ... As America moves towards trying to be more health-conscious, we are taxing people as a way to help them stop," Rodrigues said.

But Mark Geherian countered, "There's no need to be taxing that. You tax booze, cigarette, gas ... leave the pop alone."

The proposed tax would be 2 cents on every ounce.

That means the tax would add 40 cents to the cost of a 20-ounce bottle of pop and 24 cents to the price of a 12-ounce can. It would add $2.88 to the price of 12-packs and $1.35 to the cost of a 2-liter bottle.

The mayor believes that would generate $25 million to help Pittsburgh's troubled pension fund.

He said he is open to any ideas to raise revenue in the city without raising property taxes.

“I'll pursue any option that there is consensus, that we have the ability to build consensus around, and if the sugary drink tax is that option, wonderful,” Ravenstahl said. “If it's to raise the local services tax from $52 to $144, that works for me. If we want to look at levying the payroll preparation tax to nonprofits, that's fine too.”

An attorney for the Pennsylvania Beverage Association said he "would be deeply concerned about imposing another burdensome tax on the city's residents, businesses and visitors."

Allegheny County currently has a drink tax on poured alcoholic beverages. Funds from that tax go toward mass transit.

The only other city to impose a tax on sugary drinks is Chicago, where the levy is 3 percent.

Ravenstahl will be in Harrisburg next week to discuss the possible tax with lawmakers.

http://www.wpxi.com/news/22860928/detail.html

Steel Mountain
03-17-2010, 05:54 PM
http://www.wpxi.com/news/22860928/detail.html

I do not live there anymore, so my 2 cents is worth a lot less. I say hell yes! I am not for new taxes at all, but look....cigs are taxed...alcohol is taxed...when medical mary Jane gets around it will be taxed. The fact is that folks who consume these and other health detriments are also the ones who burden our health care. I am sorry to say it, but why should folks who corrupt their own body on purpose get a free ride w/ my dollars? Frankly, I am tired of looking at fat unhealthy slobs wondering why they are that way....I think the shit is eating their brains and they do even know it. If it were up to me, all that crap would be as illegal as heroin. Everyone knows it is a silent killer, just socially acceptable. I would happily pay a 100% tax on sugary, sweetened beverages. Why? Because I am not stupid enough to consume them. Water, a little red wine. fruit juice, green tea. Not good enough because it is not addictive enough.

TheWarDen86
03-17-2010, 05:55 PM
Pittsburgh Considers Tax on Soda, Energy Drinks....

Shouldn't affect anyone in Pittsburgh because by all accounts, Pittsburghers drink "pop."

:chuckle:

GBMelBlount
03-17-2010, 06:01 PM
The fact is that folks who consume these and other health detriments are also the ones who burden our health care.

I am sorry to say it, but why should folks who corrupt their own body on purpose get a free ride w/ my dollars? .

That would be an interesting point for debate Steel.....IF the money was going towards health costs.

However, It's not.

X-Terminator
03-17-2010, 06:04 PM
I do not live there anymore, so my 2 cents is worth a lot less. I say hell yes! I am not for new taxes at all, but look....cigs are taxed...alcohol is taxed...when medical mary Jane gets around it will be taxed. The fact is that folks who consume these and other health detriments are also the ones who burden our health care. I am sorry to say it, but why should folks who corrupt their own body on purpose get a free ride w/ my dollars? Frankly, I am tired of looking at fat unhealthy slobs wondering why they are that way....I think the shit is eating their brains and they do even know it. If it were up to me, all that crap would be as illegal as heroin. Everyone knows it is a silent killer, just socially acceptable. I would happily pay a 100% tax on sugary, sweetened beverages. Why? Because I am not stupid enough to consume them. Water, a little red wine. fruit juice, green tea. Not good enough because it is not addictive enough.

You're against new taxes...but support a new tax. :noidea:

We already pay sales tax on a bottle of soda and most already cost anywhere from $1.35 to $1.59. Why add another tax on top of it? It's both ridiculous and redundant. Plus, you know as soon as this tax is implemented, it's going to be applied to all beverages, including fruit/vegetable juice and Vitamin Water. It's not just going to be limited to a bottle or can of Coke or Pepsi.

No more taxes. We are taxed enough already.

MACH1
03-17-2010, 06:16 PM
I say they start putting extra taxes on the health food supplements that aren't FDA approved.

fansince'76
03-17-2010, 06:30 PM
Bill Ritter (Colorado Governor) has proposed a statewide tax on candy and soda as well.

fansince'76
03-17-2010, 06:33 PM
You're against new taxes...but support a new tax. :noidea:

We already pay sales tax on a bottle of soda and most already cost anywhere from $1.35 to $1.59. Why add another tax on top of it? It's both ridiculous and redundant. Plus, you know as soon as this tax is implemented, it's going to be applied to all beverages, including fruit/vegetable juice and Vitamin Water. It's not just going to be limited to a bottle or can of Coke or Pepsi.

No more taxes. We are taxed enough already.

On top of that it's a regressive tax. What do poor people drink? It sure ain't Perrier.

steelerdude15
03-17-2010, 06:38 PM
I wouldn't put a tax on soda, but on energy drinks yes, they tear your body apart and more importantly, they hurt your heart.

Steelerstrength
03-17-2010, 06:40 PM
I say they start putting extra taxes on the health food supplements that aren't FDA approved.

I've never heard of an FDA approved supplement. Wouldn't that be another intrusion? Having the FDA regulate supplements would require a whole new branch to categorize the efficacy, types, etc.

If they only required clinicals to prove their claims that would be all that is needed. For example, I take all pharmaceutical grade supplements that have been clinically proven in many categories. Are they FDA approved? No. But drug companies would love the FDA to require approval. That's another shit-storm.

I totally and completely agree with taxing soda! It's just a mixture of horrible chemicals in a bottle not fit for human consumption! Wanna clean your car battery? Just pour a bottle of Coke on it! Wanna flush minerals out of your system? Just drink a soda that contains phosphoric acid!

I agree with Steel Mountain! Soda is crap! Making the choice to drink is costing us all!

That's my two cents!

X-Terminator
03-17-2010, 06:47 PM
On top of that it's a regressive tax. What do poor people drink? It sure ain't Perrier.

Exactly. There will be a lot of people who will love this idea, but it does nothing but hurt the poor. Not only that, if more people stop drinking so much soda or energy drinks, the tax will essentially be worthless because they'll be bringing in less and less money. Which means they will find something else to tax...or expand it to include ALL drinks, as I said earlier.

Tell you what...I'll support this tax as soon as they agree to either eliminate the sales tax on fruit juices/flavored water or lower the prices. If I'm going to be forced to make a healthier choice, then I'd like to NOT have to pay $1.89 or more for a bottle of orange juice, green tea or Vitamin Water.

GBMelBlount
03-17-2010, 07:02 PM
Exactly. There will be a lot of people who will love this idea, but it does nothing but hurt the poor. Not only that, if more people stop drinking so much soda or energy drinks, the tax will essentially be worthless because they'll be bringing in less and less money. Which means they will find something else to tax...or expand it to include ALL drinks, as I said earlier.



Again, if this tax money was going towards health care costs you could at least make a decent argument but to say we're going to tax it because it's not healthy and then use the taxes for something different just makes no sense to me.

I guess I would liken it to the government collecting taxes for one purpose, say social security, putting it in a social security account, and then using all that money for something entirely different.

Of course the government would never do something like that.

Vincent
03-17-2010, 07:12 PM
The fact is that folks who consume these and other health detriments are also the ones who burden our health care. I am sorry to say it, but why should folks who corrupt their own body on purpose get a free ride w/ my dollars?

On your dollars? How TF is anybody getting a "free ride" on your dollars? What comic book do you live in?

Facts - Boston Tea Party. King's tea goes into the harbor over a 2% tax. Message to king - go @#$% yourself.

If the mayor of Pittsburgh wants to levy a tax on anything to "generate $25 million to help Pittsburgh's troubled pension fund", Burghers aught to ask three questions...

1, Why is the "pension fund" in "trouble"?
2. WTF do soda and energy drinks have to do with "fixing" the "troubled pension fund"?
3. And why are we on the hook to "fix" it?

The politicians and unions @#$%ed up the pension fund. Let them "fix it". Better idea - hang them until the wind blows through their bones so future would be union bosses and politicians see there is a cost for @#$%ing up pension funds.

The reason these assholes think they can "fix" things with our money is because nobody has chopped off their chitlins for being thieving bastards.

I agree with Steel Mountain! Soda is crap! Making the choice to drink is costing us all!

I don't care for soda or sugary drinks. That's my choice. I don't care who does or how much they drink. That is their prerogative. How is the consumption of said beverages "costing us all"? And what business is it of yours what I or anyone else drinks or eats? If you want to be "pure" and take pharmaceutical grade supplements, knock yourself out. But mind your own business in the process.

There. Where's my Martini?

MACH1
03-17-2010, 07:14 PM
I've never heard of an FDA approved supplement. Wouldn't that be another intrusion? Having the FDA regulate supplements would require a whole new branch to categorize the efficacy, types, etc.

If they only required clinicals to prove their claims that would be all that is needed. For example, I take all pharmaceutical grade supplements that have been clinically proven in many categories. Are they FDA approved? No. But drug companies would love the FDA to require approval. That's another shit-storm.

I totally and completely agree with taxing soda! It's just a mixture of horrible chemicals in a bottle not fit for human consumption! Wanna clean your car battery? Just pour a bottle of Coke on it! Wanna flush minerals out of your system? Just drink a soda that contains phosphoric acid!

I agree with Steel Mountain! Soda is crap! Making the choice to drink is costing us all!

That's my two cents!

Bingo!

How many people have died from supplements that weren't "good"? Some of the supplements are just as bad for a persons body, especially with the right mix. Some of the supplements have just as much or more "natural" caffeine in them than soda.

The argument can go both ways:noidea:.

Steelerstrength
03-17-2010, 07:37 PM
Bingo!

How many people have died from supplements that weren't "good"? Some of the supplements are just as bad for a persons body, especially with the right mix. Some of the supplements have just as much or more "natural" caffeine in them than soda.

The argument can go both ways:noidea:.

You can paraphrase all you want. As per the rest of my written opinion, "If they only required clinicals to prove their claims that would be all that is needed. For example, I take all pharmaceutical grade supplements that have been clinically proven in many categories. Are they FDA approved? No. But drug companies would love the FDA to require approval. That's another shit-storm."

Supplements consist of a huge market with many categories. You've successfully lumped them into one, those with stimulants. That's a whole different story.

So, the argument can go in many directions, when we're talking specifics. Generalities can justify just about anything. I definitely agree that there are too many fat-loss and energy drinks that are worse than soda. Neither need be allowed for human consumption. And if this thread was intended for conversation about supplements alone, I would have specified my opinion to that subject. :thumbsup:

Back to subject: The price of my health insurance is sky high! And it can partially be attributed to the epidemic of obesity, diabetes, heart disease, and many other consequences of those who choose to eat and drink the products we are discussing. I'm most interested in the cause and effect.

Water is an excellent alternative that comes right out of the tap! Are we just too lazy to make that choice to drink it?

fansince'76
03-17-2010, 07:43 PM
Tell you what...I'll support this tax as soon as they agree to either eliminate the sales tax on fruit juices/flavored water or lower the prices. If I'm going to be forced to make a healthier choice, then I'd like to NOT have to pay $1.89 or more for a bottle of orange juice, green tea or Vitamin Water.

Or better yet, stop raising taxes to close budget gaps and decrease spending for a change.

MACH1
03-17-2010, 07:53 PM
You can paraphrase all you want. As per the rest of my written opinion, "If they only required clinicals to prove their claims that would be all that is needed. For example, I take all pharmaceutical grade supplements that have been clinically proven in many categories. Are they FDA approved? No. But drug companies would love the FDA to require approval. That's another shit-storm."

Supplements consist of a huge market with many categories. You've successfully lumped them into one, those with stimulants. That's a whole different story.

So, the argument can go in many directions, when we're talking specifics. Generalities can justify just about anything. I definitely agree that there are too many fat-loss and energy drinks that are worse than soda. Neither need be allowed for human consumption. And if this thread was intended for conversation about supplements alone, I would have specified my opinion to that subject. :thumbsup:

Back to subject: The price of my health insurance is sky high! And it can partially be attributed to the epidemic of obesity, diabetes, heart disease, and many other consequences of those who choose to eat and drink the products we are discussing. I'm most interested in the cause and effect.

Water is an excellent alternative that comes right out of the tap! Are we just too lazy to make that choice to drink it?

Fair enough.


Not all of the things you mentioned are only caused by eating or drinking things. You (the law makers) are lumping people with inherited problems in there too. No matter how well you treat your body, your still going to have heart problems or be diabetic or be over weight or get cancer, ect. Its in the genes.

HometownGal
03-17-2010, 07:57 PM
This is Pittsburgh in the state of Taxylvania. Wouldn't surprise me if they find a way to tax the air we breathe here and start imposing a tax on karaoke. :rolleyes:

fansince'76
03-17-2010, 08:01 PM
Water is an excellent alternative that comes right out of the tap! Are we just too lazy to make that choice to drink it?

Not sure about where you live, but where I live, tap water tastes horrible. :yuck: And like X-T said, chances are any additional taxes on sugary drinks will eventually extend to bottled water as well.

smokin3000gt
03-17-2010, 08:12 PM
I wouldn't put a tax on soda, but on energy drinks yes, they tear your body apart and more importantly, they hurt your heart.

So new taxes should be based on what you (or anyone) deem good or bad for me?

if I want an energy drink (or soda), I hand over my money that I earned and receive the energy drink. End of transaction. I shouldn't have to pay the government, state, or anyone else besides the person behind the counter. This has nothing to do with anyone else.

tony hipchest
03-17-2010, 08:21 PM
That means the tax would add 40 cents to the cost of a 20-ounce bottle of pop and 24 cents to the price of a 12-ounce can. It would add $2.88 to the price of 12-packs and $1.35 to the cost of a 2-liter bottle.

The mayor believes that would generate $25 million to help Pittsburgh's troubled pension fund.

i got a better proposal that i think most here would approve.

eliminate the troubled pension fund altogether and give a $0.20 tax break on all sodas and energy drinks. it is not regressive therefore will help the poor and enable them to purchase more sodas. :thumbsup:

plus everybody loves a tax break. (well, except for those who rely on their pension funds).

anyone plan to cash in on social security or medicaid in the next 20-30 years? :toofunny: (pipedream)

its time for us children to represent our children/grandchildren and demand the taxbreaks that will make those pay whose electorate put us in this position in the first place.

screw the old, who paved the way, and led us to this path to destruction! let em die! i want my energy drink, and i want it cheap, dammit!

:funny::ak47::hyper::beerbang::hypno::jump::shots: :downspin::dizzy: :willy::muhaha:

GBMelBlount
03-17-2010, 08:22 PM
Or better yet, stop raising taxes to close budget gaps and decrease spending for a change.

Exactly.

When a company runs into problems, they have to cut costs, improve efficiency and improve their product or they go out of business.

When the government runs into problems, they just increase taxes and people are forced to pay.

fansince'76
03-17-2010, 08:31 PM
i got a better proposal that i think most here would approve.

eliminate the troubled pension fund altogether....

Why not? As a private sector employee, I (along with about 99% of the rest of the private sector) sure as hell don't have a pension fund. All I have is a 401K plan and whatever I can save on the side. Social Security? Yeah. By the time I am old enough to collect, chances are that will have long gone insolvent and I won't get shit after 50-or-so odd years of paying into it.

tony hipchest
03-17-2010, 08:34 PM
Why not? As a private sector employee, I (along with about 99% of the rest of the private sector) sure as hell don't have a pension fund. All I have is a 401K plan and whatever I can save on the side. Social Security? Yeah. By the time I am old enough to collect, chances are that will have long gone insolvent and I won't get shit after 50-or-so odd years of paying into it.yep. you can bet on that. :drink:

im in the same boat right along with ya. :sinking: (can i be the bird? :chuckle: )

GBMelBlount
03-17-2010, 08:37 PM
By the time I am old enough to collect, chances are that will have long gone insolvent and I won't get shit after 50-or-so odd years of paying into it.

I am sure they will do a much better job with our healthcare...

X-Terminator
03-17-2010, 08:42 PM
i got a better proposal that i think most here would approve.

eliminate the troubled pension fund altogether and give a $0.20 tax break on all sodas and energy drinks. it is not regressive therefore will help the poor and enable them to purchase more sodas. :thumbsup:

plus everybody loves a tax break. (well, except for those who rely on their pension funds).

anyone plan to cash in on social security or medicaid in the next 20-30 years? :toofunny: (pipedream)

its time for us children to represent our children/grandchildren and demand the taxbreaks that will make those pay whose electorate put us in this position in the first place.

screw the old, who paved the way, and led us to this path to destruction! let em die! i want my energy drink, and i want it cheap, dammit!

:funny::ak47::hyper::beerbang::hypno::jump::shots: :downspin::dizzy: :willy::muhaha:

How about this - fixing the problem without freaking raising or creating new taxes for a change? Every time some damn fund is in trouble, the first thing politicians want to do is raise or create taxes. And ever since Ravenstahl has been in office, all he's proposed is raising this tax or that tax, including a tax on college tuition, spending taxpayer dollars on lavish getaways and presiding over the epic fail that was the city's snow removal after the big storm last month. You'd think in a city overrun with bleeding-heart Democrats, they'd try NOT to create taxes that put an additional burden on the poor that they allegedly care about so much.

You can't squeeze juice out of a dry lemon. We're taxed enough here. No more.

tony hipchest
03-17-2010, 08:50 PM
How about this - fixing the problem without freaking raising or creating new taxes for a change? Every time some damn fund is in trouble, the first thing politicians want to do is raise or create taxes. And ever since Ravenstahl has been in office, all he's proposed is raising this tax or that tax, including a tax on college tuition, spending taxpayer dollars on lavish getaways and presiding over the epic fail that was the city's snow removal after the big storm last month. You'd think in a city overrun with bleeding-heart Democrats, they'd try NOT to create taxes that put an additional burden on the poor that they allegedly care about so much.

You can't squeeze juice out of a dry lemon. We're taxed enough here. No more.easier said than done.

and the price for a college education has been out of control for years (far exceding inflation).

when i was accepted to PITT and carnegie mellon, (which wasnt too long ago) the price for out of state tuition was $8000 & $26,000 / year respectively. i dont think that the gross increase since then is all taxes.

fansince'76
03-17-2010, 09:08 PM
easier said than done.

Corporate America seems to have done it pretty easily. A recent example would be IBM eighty-sixing their pension program and forcing their newer employees to get 401Ks like everyone else. Sure, it sucks, but things are tough all over. It seems to me when everyone else has been forced to tighten their belts to survive recently, governments - local, state and federal, haven't sacrificed nearly as much as everyone else. I think it's time they start, especially after all the rampant waste I witnessed over thirteen years as a federal employee a while back, and in light of stories like the following:

Benefits widen public, private workers' pay gap

By Dennis Cauchon, USA TODAY

The pay gap between government workers and lower-compensated private employees is growing as public employees enjoy sizable benefit growth even in a distressed economy, federal figures show.

Public employees earned benefits worth an average of $13.38 an hour in December 2008, the latest available data, the Bureau of Labor Statistics (BLS) says. Private-sector workers got $7.98 an hour.

Overall, total compensation for state and local workers was $39.25 an hour — $11.90 more than in private business. In 2007, the gap in wages and benefits was $11.31.

The gap has been expanding because of the increasing value of public employee benefits. Last year, government benefits rose three times more than those in the private sector: up 69 cents an hour for civil servants, 23 cents for private workers.

Labor costs account for about half of state and local spending, according to BLS and Census data. Benefits consume a growing share of that, now 34%.

Illinois state Sen. Chris Lauzen, a Republican, says government benefits are unsustainable and unfair to taxpayers who earn less than civil servants. "People will become angrier and angrier when they learn the difference between their pay and benefits and what we give to public employees," he says.

Jennifer Porcari of the American Federation of Teachers, a union representing 1.4 million educators and state employees, says BLS figures that show government employees earn higher wages are misleading because jobs aren't comparable. Government jobs, such as teaching, often require more education.

Some states are asking unions for help with budget problems. New Mexico employees will pay an extra 1.5% of salary toward pensions for two years, cutting the state's share. Ohio's unions will take unpaid furlough days to save the state $440 million over two years. In the third year, workers will get most of the money back.

The wage gap between government and private workers has stayed roughly the same since 2002. Benefits are a different story.

For every $1-an-hour pay increase, public employees have gotten $1.17 in new benefits. Private workers have gotten just 58 cents in benefits for every $1 raise. The difference: Companies have ended most traditional pension plans and increased workers' share of health care costs. Government paid an average of $8,800 annually toward employee medical insurance. Private companies paid $4,100.

A full-time government worker receives benefits worth an average of $27,830 per year. A private worker's benefits are worth $16,598.

http://www.usatoday.com/money/workplace/2009-04-09-compensation_N.htm

X-Terminator
03-17-2010, 09:17 PM
easier said than done.

and the price for a college education has been out of control for years (far exceding inflation).

when i was accepted to PITT and carnegie mellon, (which wasnt too long ago) the price for out of state tuition was $8000 & $26,000 / year respectively. i dont think that the gross increase since then is all taxes.

No, Ravenstahl wanted to implement an extra 1% tax on college tuition on top of the tuition increases from operating costs for the university, because in his warped mind, they were deemed a "burden on city services." Sheer genius there - call the community responsible for much of this city's rebirth "a burden." It was wildly unpopular with the students and the universities, and the only thing that stopped it was the universities agreeing to pony up more money to the city. Obviously that wasn't enough, because here we are again with Ravenstahl proposing yet another tax to pay for the city's pension program that former mayor Tom Murphy was responsible for destroying in the first place. This one will probably get more support, because there are a whole lot of people who think like some of those in this thread, and I will lay money that it'll end up passing.

SteelCityMom
03-17-2010, 09:27 PM
I do not live there anymore, so my 2 cents is worth a lot less. I say hell yes! I am not for new taxes at all, but look....cigs are taxed...alcohol is taxed...when medical mary Jane gets around it will be taxed. The fact is that folks who consume these and other health detriments are also the ones who burden our health care. I am sorry to say it, but why should folks who corrupt their own body on purpose get a free ride w/ my dollars? Frankly, I am tired of looking at fat unhealthy slobs wondering why they are that way....I think the shit is eating their brains and they do even know it. If it were up to me, all that crap would be as illegal as heroin. Everyone knows it is a silent killer, just socially acceptable. I would happily pay a 100% tax on sugary, sweetened beverages. Why? Because I am not stupid enough to consume them. Water, a little red wine. fruit juice, green tea. Not good enough because it is not addictive enough.

I remember when eggs caused cancer. We should put an extra tax on eggs. Bread too, bread makes you fat. And butter. Fruit has sugar in it...TAX IT! Many fruit juices have more sugar in it than sodas(the second most sugary drink with 38g/8oz is Minute Maid Grape Cranberry Juice)...TAX IT! Caffeine is bad for you in excess, so lets just levy an extra tax on anything with caffeine in it.

Most Sugar-Packed Breakfast Cereal
Quaker Natural Granola: Oats, Honey & Raisins (1 cup)
30 g sugars
420 calories

Warning: Granola’s healthy reputation is way overrated. The problem is those healthy-sounding oats are invariably bathed in a variety of sweeteners, making it not only one of the sweetest cereals in the aisle, but also a caloric overload. In fact, one cup of this stuff has more sugar than two servings of Lucky Charms!

TAX THE HIPPIES!!!!


Do you kind of see where this could go out of control? The government won't stop at soda and sugary drinks, trust me....they will start to levy taxes on many things, including your green tea, water and fruit juice for starters.

X-Terminator
03-17-2010, 09:45 PM
I remember when eggs caused cancer. We should put an extra tax on eggs. Bread too, bread makes you fat. And butter. Fruit has sugar in it...TAX IT! Many fruit juices have more sugar in it than sodas(the second most sugary drink with 38g/8oz is Minute Maid Grape Cranberry Juice)...TAX IT! Caffeine is bad for you in excess, so lets just levy an extra tax on anything with caffeine in it.

Most Sugar-Packed Breakfast Cereal
Quaker Natural Granola: Oats, Honey & Raisins (1 cup)
30 g sugars
420 calories

Warning: Granola’s healthy reputation is way overrated. The problem is those healthy-sounding oats are invariably bathed in a variety of sweeteners, making it not only one of the sweetest cereals in the aisle, but also a caloric overload. In fact, one cup of this stuff has more sugar than two servings of Lucky Charms!

TAX THE HIPPIES!!!!


Do you kind of see where this could go out of control? The government won't stop at soda and sugary drinks, trust me....they will start to levy taxes on many things, including your green tea, water and fruit juice for starters.

Funny you should mention fruit - when I first started on the diet plan that my trainer drew up for me, he said that I should limit fruit to about 3 servings per week, and that it should be low-sugar fruits like apples. Grapes, cherries, oranges, peaches...off-limits. Fruit juice either had to be light or diluted with water to lessen the sugar content, and that I should not drink fruit juice or eat fruit after 2 PM due to the time it takes for the sugar to fully digest.

Typical...tell everyone not to drink sugary sodas and energy drinks, but drink all of the Minute Maid orange juice that you want. What harm could it do? :chuckle:

Hell, even peas and corn have a lot of sugar in them - let's tax those while we're at it.

SteelCityMom
03-17-2010, 10:15 PM
Funny you should mention fruit - when I first started on the diet plan that my trainer drew up for me, he said that I should limit fruit to about 3 servings per week, and that it should be low-sugar fruits like apples. Grapes, cherries, oranges, peaches...off-limits. Fruit juice either had to be light or diluted with water to lessen the sugar content, and that I should not drink fruit juice or eat fruit after 2 PM due to the time it takes for the sugar to fully digest.

Typical...tell everyone not to drink sugary sodas and energy drinks, but drink all of the Minute Maid orange juice that you want. What harm could it do? :chuckle:

Hell, even peas and corn have a lot of sugar in them - let's tax those while we're at it.

Right...and mind you, the drink I listed comes in 16oz bottles...that's 76g of sugar in one drink (cause honestly, who gets a drink that size and then doesn't drink the whole thing). Soda's are roughly 35-50g/12 oz.

Here's a good site that compares the sugar/carbs from sugar/calorie/total carbs of some 100% fruit juices to Coke Classic.

http://www.hookedonjuice.com/


Soda and energy drinks are just an easy target for trying to levy an extra tax on. I mean, it's much easier to convince people that they are bad for you than delicious, 100% natural fruit juice lol.

Steelerstrength
03-17-2010, 10:38 PM
Right...and mind you, the drink I listed comes in 16oz bottles...that's 76g of sugar in one drink (cause honestly, who gets a drink that size and then doesn't drink the whole thing). Soda's are roughly 35-50g/12 oz.

Here's a good site that compares the sugar/carbs from sugar/calorie/total carbs of some 100% fruit juices to Coke Classic.

http://www.hookedonjuice.com/


Soda and energy drinks are just an easy target for trying to levy an extra tax on. I mean, it's much easier to convince people that they are bad for you than delicious, 100% natural fruit juice lol.

Do we really want this thread to evolve into a breakdown of fructose vs high fructose corn syrup, sugar, and the glycemic index of various types of carbohydrates, etc.? Sugars are not equal in regards to our individual biochemical response to the different types.

It's the sugar mixed with toxic chemicals that I'm most concerned with. For example, my mother has Fibromyalgia. It just so happens that aspartame and certain sweetners can cause flare-ups. Not to mention that the phosphoric acid greatly attributes to her osteoporosis. I could go on, but I'll spare you the details.

(FYI: It helps to be a Certified Strength & Conditioning Coach, World Champion Athlete, and Specialist in Performance Nutrition. I say this not to impress you, but to impress upon you my humble experience.)

After reading the numerous points in this thread, I agree that taxing our way out of deficits is absolutely not the way to go. My passion for proper nutrition and exercise, as it pertains to optimal health, can sometimes blind me to the bigger picture. Education is the key to putting our country on the right nutritional track!

Thanks for the great thread! :thumbsup:

steelerdude15
03-17-2010, 11:04 PM
So new taxes should be based on what you (or anyone) deem good or bad for me?

if I want an energy drink (or soda), I hand over my money that I earned and receive the energy drink. End of transaction. I shouldn't have to pay the government, state, or anyone else besides the person behind the counter. This has nothing to do with anyone else.
I see what you mean, but they are so bad for the heart and tear the body up. Soda in large quantities is also bad as well.

SteelCityMom
03-18-2010, 12:51 AM
Do we really want this thread to evolve into a breakdown of fructose vs high fructose corn syrup, sugar, and the glycemic index of various types of carbohydrates, etc.? Sugars are not equal in regards to our individual biochemical response to the different types.

It's the sugar mixed with toxic chemicals that I'm most concerned with. For example, my mother has Fibromyalgia. It just so happens that aspartame and certain sweetners can cause flare-ups. Not to mention that the phosphoric acid greatly attributes to her osteoporosis. I could go on, but I'll spare you the details.

(FYI: It helps to be a Certified Strength & Conditioning Coach, World Champion Athlete, and Specialist in Performance Nutrition. I say this not to impress you, but to impress upon you my humble experience.)

After reading the numerous points in this thread, I agree that taxing our way out of deficits is absolutely not the way to go. My passion for proper nutrition and exercise, as it pertains to optimal health, can sometimes blind me to the bigger picture. Education is the key to putting our country on the right nutritional track!

Thanks for the great thread! :thumbsup:


I understand your point, and agree, but not all fruit juice drinks are 100% juice, and the ones that aren't contain many of the same "toxic" ingredients that sodas do, and often contain more sugar and or HFCS. Should these beverages fall into the tax as well?

I also agree that nutritional education is key to this country. I have a couple family members with severe diabetes, so it is a big issue with me. I just don't agree with this method of doing it.

MACH1
03-18-2010, 10:04 AM
I understand your point, and agree, but not all fruit juice drinks are 100% juice, and the ones that aren't contain many of the same "toxic" ingredients that sodas do, and often contain more sugar and or HFCS. Should these beverages fall into the tax as well?

I also agree that nutritional education is key to this country. I have a couple family members with severe diabetes, so it is a big issue with me. I just don't agree with this method of doing it.

So what did they consume to contract severe diabetes?

I know diet helps control diabetes but was that the only contributing factor to getting diabetes?

I know several people that are diabetic and everyone of them are skinny as a rail and have been diabetic their whole lives.

As you said, it the wrong way of going about it.

GBMelBlount
03-18-2010, 10:07 AM
I also agree that nutritional education is key to this country. I have a couple family members with severe diabetes, so it is a big issue with me. I just don't agree with this method of doing it.

I agree. Education and self discipline are critical for diabetics.

It is a terrible disease, especially if not managed well with proper diet and monitoring.

SteelCityMom
03-18-2010, 11:26 AM
So what did they consume to contract severe diabetes?

I know diet helps control diabetes but was that the only contributing factor to getting diabetes?

I know several people that are diabetic and everyone of them are skinny as a rail and have been diabetic their whole lives.

As you said, it the wrong way of going about it.

My uncle has had it practically his whole life (he was diagnosed as an early teen), but didn't take proper care of himself until after having a heart attack. And yes, sugary drinks was certainly one of the things he consumed, but he also smoked, ate a lot of fast food and fried food and fatty red meats and didn't follow any sort of diet or exercise plan at all. He paid a high price for it. Along with bypass surgery, he's had both legs amputated at the knees and has pretty bad vision problems. It was nothing short of a wake up call for the whole family.

My grandpa's diabetes is not nearly quite as severe, and he was just diagnosed a couple years ago and has been taking pretty good care of himself (though I have caught him sneaking a cookie or two here and there lol). But I don't ever remember him eating a lot of unhealthy foods. Certainly not fast food and he doesn't like soda.

Some diabetics (like my uncle his whole life) don't have the look of what most people consider the stereotypical overweight diabetic, and are quite skinny and lanky.

I wouldn't hate this tax so much if they were using the money to do something that would further health education, but they're not. They just want the money to fix a problem that they created and are using health effects as a crutch.

Godfather
03-18-2010, 11:31 AM
My uncle has had it practically his whole life (he was diagnosed as an early teen), but didn't take proper care of himself until after having a heart attack. And yes, sugary drinks was certainly one of the things he consumed, but he also smoked, ate a lot of fast food and fried food and fatty red meats and didn't follow any sort of diet or exercise plan at all. He paid a high price for it. Along with bypass surgery, he's had both legs amputated at the knees and has pretty bad vision problems. It was nothing short of a wake up call for the whole family.

My grandpa's diabetes is not nearly quite as severe, and he was just diagnosed a couple years ago and has been taking pretty good care of himself (though I have caught him sneaking a cookie or two here and there lol). But I don't ever remember him eating a lot of unhealthy foods. Certainly not fast food and he doesn't like soda.

Some diabetics (like my uncle his whole life) don't have the look of what most people consider the stereotypical overweight diabetic, and are quite skinny and lanky.

I wouldn't hate this tax so much if they were using the money to do something that would further health education, but they're not. They just want the money to fix a problem that they created and are using health effects as a crutch.

Sounds like your uncle is Type I and your grandfather is Type II.

Steel Mountain
03-18-2010, 04:30 PM
Like SS, I am a certified personal trainer, board certified nutritionist and former professional chef. Each of his posts is spot on. Mach 1 you cannot simply use the term diabetes w/o defining type 1 or type 2. Type 2 diabetes, obesity and many coronary related diseases are due to poor lifestyle habits and choices. It is fact that our health care costs are skewed by those unwilling to make smart choices whether it be due to laziness, gluttony or what ever. I make a living from those people, so perhaps I should celebrate the lazy fat people of this country...job security right? Not so much. I give blood sweat and tears to help these kinds of people and do not always get paid for my efforts. When I see them around the corner knocking back a 40 oz. Monster and a biggie fries, I have to be honest and say that it makes it really difficult for me to care if they live or not. They don`t care, why should I? No, I do not want more taxes, but I DO want to find a way to make this crap unavailable in some fashion. Then again, I see how many people who do not flinch at paying 5-6 bucks for a pack of cigs that are taxed heavily and make them smell oh so nice! Well, the good news is that we all get to pay for Obamacare and those poor morons will get to slide into their grave o someone elses dime! Just hope they hurry up and die and not squander our money. Seems that is their aim anyway.

MACH1
03-18-2010, 04:35 PM
Like SS, I am a certified personal trainer, board certified nutritionist and former professional chef. Each of his posts is spot on. Mach 1 you cannot simply use the term diabetes w/o defining type 1 or type 2. Type 2 diabetes, obesity and many coronary related diseases are due to poor lifestyle habits and choices. It is fact that our health care costs are skewed by those unwilling to make smart choices whether it be due to laziness, gluttony or what ever. I make a living from those people, so perhaps I should celebrate the lazy fat people of this country...job security right? Not so much. I give blood sweat and tears to help these kinds of people and do not always get paid for my efforts. When I see them around the corner knocking back a 40 oz. Monster and a biggie fries, I have to be honest and say that it makes it really difficult for me to care if they live or not. They don`t care, why should I? No, I do not want more taxes, but I DO want to find a way to make this crap unavailable in some fashion. Then again, I see how many people who do not flinch at paying 5-6 bucks for a pack of cigs that are taxed heavily and make them smell oh so nice! Well, the good news is that we all get to pay for Obamacare and those poor morons will get to slide into their grave o someone elses dime! Just hope they hurry up and die and not squander our money. Seems that is their aim anyway.

Last time I checked there's a small thing called freedom of choice. It's not your choice to tell other people what they can or can't do with THEIR lives.

Steel Mountain
03-18-2010, 05:02 PM
Last time I checked there's a small thing called freedom of choice. It's not your choice to tell other people what they can or can't do with THEIR lives.

Yes, you are right, it is not my choice, but the fact still remains that my health care costs are what they are due to people who could give a shit about themselves, let alone how their actions affects the rest of us. By all means, have fun now, but do not ask me to feel sorry for you when TLC channel does a special on you. (not YOU Mach). These shows are pitiful and society freely allows it to happen. I am done w/ this as I feel I have made my opinion clear. Ya`ll go have a half gallon Mt. Dew a few ciggies and some pizza for dinner. I`ll be in the gym if you need me.

MACH1
03-18-2010, 05:13 PM
Yes, you are right, it is not my choice, but the fact still remains that my health care costs are what they are due to people who could give a shit about themselves, let alone how their actions affects the rest of us. By all means, have fun now, but do not ask me to feel sorry for you when TLC channel does a special on you. (not YOU Mach). These shows are pitiful and society freely allows it to happen. I am done w/ this as I feel I have made my opinion clear. Ya`ll go have a half gallon Mt. Dew a few ciggies and some pizza for dinner. I`ll be in the gym if you need me.

I think the effort would be better spent denying care to illegal aliens as far as controlling health care costs, then focusing on the few and taxing the shit out of everyone because of it.

I don't like mt.dew or smoke. But I will have a big ass buffalo burger for dinner though. Knock yourself out.

GBMelBlount
03-18-2010, 05:37 PM
but the fact still remains that my health care costs are what they are due to people who could give a shit about themselves, let alone how their actions affects the rest of us.

I agree Steel, and IF these taxes were going to cover health care costs that could be partially due to drinking sugary drinks, then that would be a basis for a reasonable argument on this imo.

Steel Mountain
03-18-2010, 05:57 PM
I think the effort would be better spent denying care to illegal aliens as far as controlling health care costs, then focusing on the few and taxing the shit out of everyone because of it.

I don't like mt.dew or smoke. But I will have a big ass buffalo burger for dinner though. Knock yourself out.

Okay.so I do not believe in denying care to anyone in need. The illegal immigrant issue is whole nother deal. I gotta go make dinner, so another time.

SteelCityMom
03-18-2010, 08:45 PM
Yes, you are right, it is not my choice, but the fact still remains that my health care costs are what they are due to people who could give a shit about themselves, let alone how their actions affects the rest of us. By all means, have fun now, but do not ask me to feel sorry for you when TLC channel does a special on you. (not YOU Mach). These shows are pitiful and society freely allows it to happen. I am done w/ this as I feel I have made my opinion clear. Ya`ll go have a half gallon Mt. Dew a few ciggies and some pizza for dinner. I`ll be in the gym if you need me.

Wow...put yourself on a pedestal much?

You do know that there are healthy, non-smoking people who do not support this tax right?

MACH1
03-18-2010, 10:16 PM
Wow...put yourself on a pedestal much?

You do know that there are healthy, non-smoking people who do not support this tax right?

Aren't ya glad a glorified p.e. teacher come along to tell us all how to live. Only problem is p.e. teacher doesn't come with m.d. behind the name.

tony hipchest
03-18-2010, 10:29 PM
You do know that there are healthy, non-smoking people who do not support this tax right?

i have no problem with people not supporting this tax.

i do find it completely odd (yet predictable) that nobody posting here has even addressed the pension funds (other than myself or fansince).

it seems that ol' lukie ravenstalin is open for any intelligent suggestions as how to address the current problem at hand.

yet so far, in this thread, i am the only one to offer one up. :hunch:

am i to assume that everyone else posting in this thread agrees? :scratchchin:

SteelCityMom
03-18-2010, 11:07 PM
i have no problem with people not supporting this tax.

i do find it completely odd (yet predictable) that nobody posting here has even addressed the pension funds (other than myself or fansince).

it seems that ol' lukie ravenstalin is open for any intelligent suggestions as how to address the current problem at hand.

yet so far, in this thread, i am the only one to offer one up. :hunch:

am i to assume that everyone else posting in this thread agrees? :scratchchin:

Well, I did say that I don't agree with the tax mainly because it does absolutely nothing to promote a healthy lifestyle.

As for the issue with the pension fund, other options that have been mentioned (on the news and in the papers) are raising the $52 annual local services tax to $144, or extending the 0.5 percent payroll preparation tax to nonprofits.

Orrrr....the city and state could learn how to budget its money properly.

This makes as much sense as putting a 7% tax on poured alcohol to raise money for public transit. :noidea:

tony hipchest
03-19-2010, 12:02 AM
Well, I did say that I don't agree with the tax mainly because it does absolutely nothing to promote a healthy lifestyle.





:noidea:



As for the issue with the pension fund, other options that have been mentioned (on the news and in the papers) are raising the $52 annual local services tax to $144, or extending the 0.5 percent payroll preparation tax to nonprofits.and then those people bitch and moan as loud as the soda drinkers. its pretty much a giant political game of 'whack-a-mole'. :noidea:

Orrrr....the city and state could learn how to budget its money properly. ....and the nation, and the majority of the voting public. fact of the matter is we are a nation that thrives on debt. it is our major industry nowadays. it is the american way of life and everyone has a part (like it or not).

regardless, pointing out the obvious does absolutely nothing to address the problem at hand.

here in the "today and tomorrow" either those who have supposedly earned pensions lose it, or someone pays for it. those are the simple facts of the matter.

This makes as much sense as putting a 7% tax on poured alcohol to raise money for public transit.

sorry, i just cannot relate. public transport here is known as 'walking'. some call it 'tom n jerry'. some call 'tom n jerry' something else. my simple solution would be to buy a car and quit drinking in public (i realize this can be difficult in pgh where a bar is located on every corner in every neighborhood).

and before anyone preaches at me, i have been to just about everywhere in pgh via public transport (the zoo, the point, northside, southside, kennywood, the strip, games, carnegie museum, etc.)

my grandparents (in their 80's) dont even know how to drive, let alone ever owned a car. i guarantee you i can take a 10 minute walk in lawrenceville and find about 30 places to find a "poured drink".

thats all kinda the price you pay to live in a city. if people dont like it they can always move out here where everything is dirt cheap (with no bs taxes) and listen to people constantly bitch how there is absolutely nothing to do and no macy's to shop at.

the grass is always greener on the other side. :coffee:

MACH1
03-19-2010, 12:18 AM
public transport here is known as 'walking'. some call it 'tom n jerry'.

Nikie express around here.

tony hipchest
03-19-2010, 12:43 AM
Nikie express around here.true story-

i have actually witnessed somebody "drive through" Dairy Queen drive through on horseback.:doh:

:yeehaw:

GBMelBlount
03-19-2010, 06:17 AM
i have no problem with people not supporting this tax.

i do find it completely odd (yet predictable) that nobody posting here has even addressed the pension funds (other than myself or fansince).

it seems that ol' lukie ravenstalin is open for any intelligent suggestions as how to address the current problem at hand.

yet so far, in this thread, i am the only one to offer one up. :hunch:

am i to assume that everyone else posting in this thread agrees? :scratchchin:

Excellent question Tony! :drink:

Do you support raising taxes to save this pension fund?

..and if so, would you support a similar tax to help folks in risk of losing their pension in the private sector?

X-Terminator
03-19-2010, 07:54 AM
i have no problem with people not supporting this tax.

i do find it completely odd (yet predictable) that nobody posting here has even addressed the pension funds (other than myself or fansince).

it seems that ol' lukie ravenstalin is open for any intelligent suggestions as how to address the current problem at hand.

yet so far, in this thread, i am the only one to offer one up. :hunch:

am i to assume that everyone else posting in this thread agrees? :scratchchin:

And notice that every one of them involved raising or creating some tax or fee. They could try such things as reducing the size of city government, reducing spending, not entering into bad union contracts, not paying the city school superintendent nearly a million bucks a year (granted that was Murphy's call, not Ravenstahl's) in order to get the money they need to fix their pension fund. Apparently that is an anaethma to city politicians. Now I do not live in the city anymore, but I work there and my family lives there, so I have a strong interest in what goes on there.

SteelCityMom
03-19-2010, 11:04 AM
and then those people bitch and moan as loud as the soda drinkers. its pretty much a giant political game of 'whack-a-mole'. :noidea:

Right, I get that, but it makes more sense than levying a sugary drink tax in the name of public health (errrr, pension fund bailout).

....and the nation, and the majority of the voting public. fact of the matter is we are a nation that thrives on debt. it is our major industry nowadays. it is the american way of life and everyone has a part (like it or not).

regardless, pointing out the obvious does absolutely nothing to address the problem at hand.

here in the "today and tomorrow" either those who have supposedly earned pensions lose it, or someone pays for it. those are the simple facts of the matter.

I know, I don't know what I was thinking expecting our city to manage itself properly. We should all just bend over and take it.


sorry, i just cannot relate. public transport here is known as 'walking'. some call it 'tom n jerry'. some call 'tom n jerry' something else. my simple solution would be to buy a car and quit drinking in public (i realize this can be difficult in pgh where a bar is located on every corner in every neighborhood). Funny thing is, most people walk to the bars, but pay the tax on their drinks for public transport. That's why the poured alcohol tax makes no sense. I never understood why they didn't just raise the prices of bus fare. Maybe that would just be too sensible.


my grandparents (in their 80's) dont even know how to drive, let alone ever owned a car. i guarantee you i can take a 10 minute walk in lawrenceville and find about 30 places to find a "poured drink". This is absolutely true. I used to live in Lawrenceville, and a 10 minute walk is almost too generous lol.

thats all kinda the price you pay to live in a city. if people dont like it they can always move out here where everything is dirt cheap (with no bs taxes) and listen to people constantly bitch how there is absolutely nothing to do and no macy's to shop at.

the grass is always greener on the other side. :coffee:

I can't speak for anyone else, but it's part of the reason I moved out of the city and Allegheny county. I was raised in the sticks and live in the sticks again now. PA is somewhat of a joke with all these new taxes every year...and they wonder why young people don't want to live in a state that taxes you at every turn.

IMO, the grass is greener on the other side, and many people who have left this city and state feel the same way.

SteelCityMom
03-19-2010, 11:10 AM
And notice that every one of them involved raising or creating some tax or fee. They could try such things as reducing the size of city government, reducing spending, not entering into bad union contracts, not paying the city school superintendent nearly a million bucks a year (granted that was Murphy's call, not Ravenstahl's) in order to get the money they need to fix their pension fund. Apparently that is an anaethma to city politicians. Now I do not live in the city anymore, but I work there and my family lives there, so I have a strong interest in what goes on there.

Blasphemy! That would fall too much into the category of the city managing its money properly, and lets face it...pointing out the obvious does nothing to fix the problem at hand. So lets just deal with the taxes k?

tony hipchest
03-20-2010, 03:07 PM
This is absolutely true. I used to live in Lawrenceville, and a 10 minute walk is almost too generous lol.

:chuckle: yeah, i was being a bit generous. i used to go to hambones on butler street the most, as it was about a 3 minute walk away. plus it was one of the biggest and "nicest" w/in the vicinity. (i use nicest loosely and relative to some others).

i was floored to find homes in the middle of those rowhouses converted to a bar. out here, you cant have a bar near a residential neighborhood, school or church. hell, there they convert old churches into bars. (X-T used to live right by churchworks, i believe).

i was also floored to go to frankies for an infamous polish sausage (i still dont know if it is a bar or eatery), and be able to walk out with a 24 oz. beer in a brown bag (which i took up to the cemetary to drink and pour out for my uncle).

here you cant walk out of any drinking establishment with alcohol of any sort.

i cant remember... do you guys have drive through liquor stores? we banned that back in '93 (and even got rid of all alcohol sales on sundays for a while- now you just cant purchase until after 12:00 in the afternoon).

i know alot is ghetto but i love lawrenceville. went to a cool irish bar right above butler, and a nice rusty wallace themed bar just across the 40th st bridge. theres somewhere cool to just go hang out, everywhere.

SteelCityMom
03-20-2010, 04:31 PM
:chuckle: yeah, i was being a bit generous. i used to go to hambones on butler street the most, as it was about a 3 minute walk away. plus it was one of the biggest and "nicest" w/in the vicinity. (i use nicest loosely and relative to some others).

i was floored to find homes in the middle of those rowhouses converted to a bar. out here, you cant have a bar near a residential neighborhood, school or church. hell, there they convert old churches into bars. (X-T used to live right by churchworks, i believe).

i was also floored to go to frankies for an infamous polish sausage (i still dont know if it is a bar or eatery), and be able to walk out with a 24 oz. beer in a brown bag (which i took up to the cemetary to drink and pour out for my uncle).

here you cant walk out of any drinking establishment with alcohol of any sort.

i cant remember... do you guys have drive through liquor stores? we banned that back in '93 (and even got rid of all alcohol sales on sundays for a while- now you just cant purchase until after 12:00 in the afternoon).

i know alot is ghetto but i love lawrenceville. went to a cool irish bar right above butler, and a nice rusty wallace themed bar just across the 40th st bridge. theres somewhere cool to just go hang out, everywhere.

No, to my knowledge PA has never had drive through liquor stores (you still can't get beer in a convenient store or grocery store), just drive through beer outlets. The liquor laws here are very draconian compared to most other states.

I really didn't mind living in Lawrenceville either. Yes, it was kind of ghetto, but if people knew you lived there they took care of you. I had a lot of good neighbors (some on the up and up, some not lol). Not somewhere that was good to raise a kid though, so we decided to move.

I used to live right on the corner of 40th and Butler...are you talking about Thunderbird? We used to hang out there a lot, and Stinky's (best homemade chips in the 'burgh!).

There's bars all over western pa that are converted from houses though...there's at least 2 bars like that where I am now and tons more all throughout Saxonburg, West Deer and Butler (where I grew up north of Pittsburgh). Easy money baby!

GBMelBlount
03-20-2010, 04:57 PM
No, to my knowledge PA has never had drive through liquor stores (you still can't get beer in a convenient store or grocery store), just drive through beer outlets. The liquor laws here are very draconian compared to most other states.



Agreed.

West Virginia and Ohio sell alcohol in grocery stores if I'm not mistaken, which is more convenient and less expensive.

tony hipchest
03-20-2010, 04:58 PM
I used to live right on the corner of 40th and Butler...are you talking about Thunderbird? We used to hang out there a lot, and Stinky's (best homemade chips in the 'burgh!).



!

i know exactly where you lived. about a block away from these photos. i never been to the thunderbird but know which one it is. the one im thinking of was on 42nd (i think) between butler and willow.

http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q23/shortyshane_2006/pitt2069.jpg

http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q23/shortyshane_2006/pitt2074.jpg

http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q23/shortyshane_2006/pitt2087.jpg

i'll have to dig up the pic of my daughter on the cannon at arsenal park (i have 30 year old photos of myself sitting on the same cannon). we used to always go there for 4th of july festivities, fireworks and watch the "SpUds" play.

and you must know where we lived (i would spend summers there)- right on banner and willow ( across from the old factory that is now the carnegie robotics lab).

i used to play lot baseball behind the old 4 story brick schoolhouse up the alley on banner, right between 40th and butler and my grandmas house.

small world.

GBMelBlount
03-20-2010, 05:00 PM
Very cool Tony. How old were you when you moved.

tony hipchest
03-20-2010, 06:17 PM
Very cool Tony. How old were you when you moved.my grandparents (now just grandma and uncle) have lived in the same house there since 1950.

i have spent the better part of 4 summers there and numerous other shorter vacations since about 30 years ago, to when those pictures were taken in 07.

being that i grew up an air force brat it is really my home away from home.

infact my great grandmother lived just about 6 blocks up 40th street from where steelcitymom did, for even longer. her and my great granfather were 1st generation immigrants from poland (arrived when they were children).

he died swimming in the allegheny river as my grandpa watched from the banks as an 8 year old kid, not far from where that picture of the washington bridge was taken.

there used to be an old rope hanging from that bridge for many years with a huge knot to sit and swing on after jumping off of the concrete support.

for us kids (plus all my aunts, uncles, cousins) swimming in the river was a big no-no (even though they all did it).

i (we) got so busted when my uncle took me swimming and swinging off the bridge when i was 12. but man, that was funner than any ride at kennywood :tt03:.

that was when we both mooned the gateway clipper full of tourists. :chuckle:

good times. i will take him a beer up in the ol boneyard everytime i visit, now. since grandpa is now with him, i will probably need a 6-pack. :drink:

what is cool, is i go to google maps "street view" and "walk around" every once and a while. my grandma is captured in the images standing on her porch sneaking a cig. :chuckle:

tony hipchest
03-21-2010, 04:29 PM
i actually had a point pertaining to the local taxes before i got caught up in the nostalgia.

my grandfather despised pgh's local sports teams and couldnt wait for the steelers to move to washington, or the penguins to go bankrupt and be sold. couldnt stand the pirates (although im sure he remembers when an orphan kid could go see a game for a nickel).

having a family of 5, going to the games was a luxory in the 60's and 70's. as they got more expensive and priced out of his range he despised paying any taxes for a stadium, or to support a team he couldnt/wouldnt even pay to go see. it was always my grandma or uncles to take me to the games as a kid.

so i can understand the disgust of a trivial tax or a tax for a service one doesnt even use. i may not agree, but i definitely understand it first hand.

being that he didnt drink energy drinks and earned a pension after 30+ years of service with the city, he may have felt differently about this proposed tax. :noidea: probably not though. he hated every tax.

X-Terminator
03-21-2010, 07:54 PM
No, to my knowledge PA has never had drive through liquor stores (you still can't get beer in a convenient store or grocery store), just drive through beer outlets. The liquor laws here are very draconian compared to most other states.

I really didn't mind living in Lawrenceville either. Yes, it was kind of ghetto, but if people knew you lived there they took care of you. I had a lot of good neighbors (some on the up and up, some not lol). Not somewhere that was good to raise a kid though, so we decided to move.

I used to live right on the corner of 40th and Butler...are you talking about Thunderbird? We used to hang out there a lot, and Stinky's (best homemade chips in the 'burgh!).

There's bars all over western pa that are converted from houses though...there's at least 2 bars like that where I am now and tons more all throughout Saxonburg, West Deer and Butler (where I grew up north of Pittsburgh). Easy money baby!

Lawrenceville is not "ghetto" anymore - there has been a massive revitalization of the neighborhood starting with Children's Hospital moving into their brand-spanking-new medical and research center there. It used to be the old St. Francis Medical Center, if you're familiar with that. Plans were recently finalized for a massive redevelopment project along the river from the Strip District, through Lawrenceville, all the way down to near the 62nd St. Bridge. There has been new and redeveloped housing, businesses, bars, etc. that have opened up there. It's similar to what they've done to East Liberty over the past 5+ years. Some of it is still crappy I'm sure, but it's nothing like it used to be.

As for the drive-through liquor stores, there was a drive-thru beer distributor on Rt. 51 near Brownsville Rd. in Brentwood, but they went out of business, a new owner bought the property and turned it into a regular beer distributor. PA actually has been trying to privatize their liquor stores, but the union wants the private owners to pay the same wages as the state does (which is about $12 an hour if I'm not mistaken), and the businesses said no way. So it may never get off the ground.

And yes, I did used to live right next door to the Church Brew Works, on Liberty Ave. near Herron. If anyone's ever in town, I recommend going there. Nice place.

JackHammer
03-21-2010, 09:48 PM
Shouldn't affect anyone in Pittsburgh because by all accounts, Pittsburghers drink "pop."

:chuckle:

:tt02:

JackHammer
03-21-2010, 09:50 PM
Lawrenceville is not "ghetto" anymore - there has been a massive revitalization of the neighborhood starting with Children's Hospital moving into their brand-spanking-new medical and research center there. It used to be the old St. Francis Medical Center, if you're familiar with that. Plans were recently finalized for a massive redevelopment project along the river from the Strip District, through Lawrenceville, all the way down to near the 62nd St. Bridge. There has been new and redeveloped housing, businesses, bars, etc. that have opened up there. It's similar to what they've done to East Liberty over the past 5+ years. Some of it is still crappy I'm sure, but it's nothing like it used to be.

As for the drive-through liquor stores, there was a drive-thru beer distributor on Rt. 51 near Brownsville Rd. in Brentwood, but they went out of business, a new owner bought the property and turned it into a regular beer distributor. PA actually has been trying to privatize their liquor stores, but the union wants the private owners to pay the same wages as the state does (which is about $12 an hour if I'm not mistaken), and the businesses said no way. So it may never get off the ground.

And yes, I did used to live right next door to the Church Brew Works, on Liberty Ave. near Herron. If anyone's ever in town, I recommend going there. Nice place.

Isn't that brand new, gigantic film studio in Lawrenceville too? Also, if you like Church Brew you should also go to East End Brewing. Great Beer, by the growler :drink:

WH
03-22-2010, 06:14 AM
if you guys don't like the taxes in allegheny county....just move to butler county.

X-Terminator
03-22-2010, 07:26 AM
Isn't that brand new, gigantic film studio in Lawrenceville too? Also, if you like Church Brew you should also go to East End Brewing. Great Beer, by the growler :drink:

Yes it is - it's a big reason why there have been quite a few movies made here in the past couple of years. That, and it's cheaper to make them here than larger cities like New York and LA. Carnegie Mellon also has its Field Robotics Center in Lawrenceville.

if you guys don't like the taxes in allegheny county....just move to butler county.

Not possible for me, but many already have. Westmoreland, Washington and Fayette Counties have also seen a big increase in population, particularly Washington County.

HometownGal
03-22-2010, 07:40 AM
if you guys don't like the taxes in allegheny county....just move to butler county.

A lot of Allegheny County dwellers have moved south to Washington County over the last decade. Lower taxes and is very up and coming. :thumbsup: I've even considered moving there myself down the road.

WH
03-22-2010, 10:13 AM
the explosive growth in all surrounding counties has been so huge. It's crazy. I don't think the podunks in Butler County where i grew up knew what hit them until about a year ago.

SteelCityMom
03-22-2010, 12:25 PM
the explosive growth in all surrounding counties has been so huge. It's crazy. I don't think the podunks in Butler County where i grew up knew what hit them until about a year ago.

Hahaha, too true. Grew up in Saxonburg myself and can still remember when Cranberry was more forest than shopping centers and housing complexes.

I didn't mind living in the city for a little while, but when we were trying to buy our own home it became glaringly apparent that Allegheny county was not going to be the place we were going to do it, so we moved out towards Greensburg in Westmoreland county.

SteelCityMom
03-22-2010, 12:27 PM
Lawrenceville is not "ghetto" anymore - there has been a massive revitalization of the neighborhood starting with Children's Hospital moving into their brand-spanking-new medical and research center there. It used to be the old St. Francis Medical Center, if you're familiar with that. Plans were recently finalized for a massive redevelopment project along the river from the Strip District, through Lawrenceville, all the way down to near the 62nd St. Bridge. There has been new and redeveloped housing, businesses, bars, etc. that have opened up there. It's similar to what they've done to East Liberty over the past 5+ years. Some of it is still crappy I'm sure, but it's nothing like it used to be.

As for the drive-through liquor stores, there was a drive-thru beer distributor on Rt. 51 near Brownsville Rd. in Brentwood, but they went out of business, a new owner bought the property and turned it into a regular beer distributor. PA actually has been trying to privatize their liquor stores, but the union wants the private owners to pay the same wages as the state does (which is about $12 an hour if I'm not mistaken), and the businesses said no way. So it may never get off the ground.

And yes, I did used to live right next door to the Church Brew Works, on Liberty Ave. near Herron. If anyone's ever in town, I recommend going there. Nice place.

Oh I know Lawrenceville isn't as bad anymore...it was starting to get cleaned up when I had moved out of there. I'm glad they've moved their efforts to where it was really needed...down towards the 62nd street bridge. That area was getting pretty bad.