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View Full Version : How about we discuss our macro level views?


Hammer67
04-02-2010, 02:02 PM
Too often, people get bogged down in arguing over the semantics of specific issues and views get muddled. Why don't we have a little chat around your high level views and why you feel the way you do?

For instance, instead of talking about the health care bill or the pros/cons of TARP, how about discussing why you may be a fiscal or social conservative/progressive?

For me, I would say that I am not a Republican or Democrat as I hate the idea of siding with a party just to side with them. I don't like to tow a party line. I guess you could say I am conservative fiscally and with foreign policy, but more moderate socially. Some of the basic things I believe are:



The Constitution is the framework for what became the greatest country in the world in a relatively short period of time...why f**k with it?
I firmly believe in taking responsibility for ones own actions...and that is on many levels. Job performance, family life, socially, politically. Anything from picking up your dog shit to voting to your values.
I believe in the motto “Give a man a fish; you have fed him for today. Teach a man to fish; and you have fed him for a lifetime." Hence my disdain for the nanny state and for our current welfare system. I believe in the PURSUIT of happiness not in the GUARANTEE of happiness!
I believe in charity, but not forced by the government
I believe that it is OK to fail, and that it teaches you how to succeed. We need to make our children understand this.
I believe in our Republic and feel the federal government has tramped on states rights for far to long.
I believe that God and Government shouldn't be married, although I recognize that our country was founded on Christian values.
I believe that the race card is played way too often and too quickly in our society.
I believe that college students should never be taken seriously as they don't understand the real world yet and have too much time on their hands to protest things.


That's about all I can think of at the moment. My views were formulated mostly by my middle class family, as well as friends and subsequent education. I come from a family of mill workers (grandfather was a foreman at J & L Steel), but most of them feel the unions contributed to the collapse of the steel industry. My father died when I was five and left my mom with three young children (I was the oldest). She took over his business (tranny shop), raised us and went to school part time to get her college degree and now is a business professional in HR. My parents (step dad, now) have been multiple small business owners and had a few fail.

Anyway, I am rambling. Just thought it would be interesting to get some perspective on some of our viewpoints and why we think the way we do here. I would hope we can start getting away from the personal attacks that people on both sides are guilty of lately...it just totally diminishes your arguments when you resort to that stuff.

Cheers! :drink:

stlrtruck
04-02-2010, 02:56 PM
The Constitution is the framework for what became the greatest country in the world in a relatively short period of time, and it's unfortunate that people who supposedly are in DC to represent us have tried to make this paper irrelevant in today's society.
I believe that children today are not given enough responsibilities at home (i.e. chores) and it shows in their lack of respect, discipline, and appreciation for the things they have.
I believe that our nation is a Christian nation and the only reason people don't want to mention God is because His standard for us is higher than people want to live by.
I definitely believe that there is a line between discipline and abuse, and some parents today either don't or are afraid to discipline their children. On the other hand, the arse's that abuse their children need to be attended to, and quickly.
I believe that people in jail are only guaranteed a roof over their head and 3 square meals a day. Not this luxury BS they receive today.
I don't believe in abortion but I do believe in the death penalty when it's necessary
I believe that every day is a gift from God and we have two choices. We can live our lives that way or we can find some reason to be pissed off at the world.
I believe in PRAY-LIVE-LOVE passionately
Finally, I believe that I should be the type of man that when my feet hit the floor each morning the devil says, "Oh CRAP! He's up!"

GoSlash27
04-02-2010, 09:55 PM
The role of our government is to protect our freedom. When it violates the Constitution, it becomes the single greatest threat to that freedom. Every position I hold is rooted in that philosophy.

JackHammer
04-03-2010, 12:18 AM
I'd say you're pretty much a Libertarian, but not a staunch Libertarian. That's about how I am too. I'm also big on the right to bear arms.

Hammer67
04-03-2010, 09:08 AM
I'd say you're pretty much a Libertarian, but not a staunch Libertarian. That's about how I am too. I'm also big on the right to bear arms.

If you are referring to me, then yes, I do tend to follow many of the Libertarian principles, although I feel that some federal/state/local government oversight is necessary for the good of the whole. That doesn't mean I think the feds should be in business for themselves. But, for things like utilities or commodities required by law, having the government regulate can, and should, be allowed. The anti-trust laws are a good example.

Libertarians would tend to disagree here...

Fire Haley
04-03-2010, 12:02 PM
I just read the signs along the road

http://i.i.com.com/cnwk.1d/i/tim//2010/04/02/image6357243_1.jpg

hindes204
04-03-2010, 01:12 PM
I believe The Constitution is the framework for what became the greatest country in the world in a relatively short period of time (I stole that one, i know, but it was good)...i despise the "living breathing Document" theory that some people believe

I believe in fiscal responsibility, spending is out of control...and I said this when the GOP was in power too, they over spent also

I believe in personal responsibility. I believe children today are spoiled and not taught proper values and discipline, leading to a society of people blaming their problems on everyone but themselves, and expecting everyone but themselves to fix their problems.

This could take forever for me to type it all out, so basically, in short, I believe in low taxes, fiscal responsibility, personal responsibility, strong national defense, energy independence, and free market solutions........nice and simple

JackHammer
04-03-2010, 01:33 PM
If you are referring to me, then yes, I do tend to follow many of the Libertarian principles, although I feel that some federal/state/local government oversight is necessary for the good of the whole. That doesn't mean I think the feds should be in business for themselves. But, for things like utilities or commodities required by law, having the government regulate can, and should, be allowed. The anti-trust laws are a good example.

Libertarians would tend to disagree here...

I hear ya, and like I said, you're not a staunch libertarian. My main difference with the Libertarian point of view is the idea that a free market is the solution to all of our problems. I'm a believer in a truly free market, but I don't think we should rely on it to the extent that the Lib Party does. That's mainly because I don't really trust private companies(corporations more than anything) to look out for the welfare of anyone but themselves.

Hammer67
04-03-2010, 01:44 PM
I hear ya, and like I said, you're not a staunch libertarian. My main difference with the Libertarian point of view is the idea that a free market is the solution to all of our problems. I'm a believer in a truly free market, but I don't think we should rely on it to the extent that the Lib Party does. That's mainly because I don't really trust private companies(corporations more than anything) to look out for the welfare of anyone but themselves.

True, although corporations are indeed public companies and they have to look out for shareholders. But your point is that most companies are concerned with profit. The thing here is that for a company to be profitable in a free market society, they have to cater to their customers or risk losing them to competition (unless you are a monopoly). Capitalism.

This, I believe in along with some government regulation to keep the playing field fair for all businesses.

Vincent
04-03-2010, 03:38 PM
I just read the signs along the road

http://i.i.com.com/cnwk.1d/i/tim//2010/04/02/image6357243_1.jpg

If ever we are in need of a moderator for, say, a "Politics & Religion" forum, could there be a better candidate?

Vincent
04-03-2010, 04:54 PM
I’ve said it in other threads, and I’ll start by saying it again - I’m not at all interested in politics. With few notable exceptions, politics and politicians in general disgust me. However, as long as there are politicians, there will be politics, and as long as there are politics, citizens need to pay attention and act so that politicians don’t drive the ship of state into the rocks. What we are experiencing today is becoming the extreme case.

Having been born in the first 100 days of the first Eisenhower administration, I grew up in the beginnings of the greatest prosperity in the history of mankind. It was at the end of one of the bloodiest periods of history. It was also the visible beginning of the internal struggle for the soul of this country, that struggle having begun with Wilson, and then grew substantially with FDR.

We grew up in the evil shadow of totalitarianism in the various manifestations of 20th Century socialism – fascism, nazism, and outright communism, and lived with the legacy of socialist tyrants Lenin, Hitler, Stalin, FDR, Mussolini. The seminal events that shaped my early thinking were Khrushchev boasting that the sovs would bury us from within, and the anti-war movement’s reaction to the Viet Nam war, which validated some of Nik’s bravado. We watched as the Frankfurt School and their spawns Marcuse, Horkheimer, Fromm, Benjamin, Adorno, Lowenthal, et al systematically destroyed American education through the indoctrination of cultural marxism. Just preceding and during my lifetime, socialism has repeatedly left wakes of murdered millions.

With that as a backdrop, here are some of my positions…


With the exception of the 16th amendment, the Constitution of the United States is a blessing of vision that serves us every bit as well today as it did in the days of its framers. Those that proposed the 16th, and those that ratified it should have been shot.
This is a representative republic, not a democracy, by design. Most folks you hear talking about “democracy’ are socialists.
The federal gubmint exists to uphold the constitution, protect the borders and citizens, maintain a viable currency, and to provide the representatives from the states with meeting accommodations. Period. All else is the province of the states.
Gubmint that governs best governs least.
Gubmints exist to serve the interests of their constituents, not the opposite.
A statesman will place his country’s best interest ahead of his own, regardless of the consequences to himself. A politician will place his own best interest ahead of his country’s regardless of the consequences to his country.
Americans are free to pursue life, liberty, and happiness.
We are free to do not as we want but what we ought.
The money I earn is my money to use as I ought, not as a gubmint decrees.
If there is such a thing as an “appropriate” income tax, the same percentage would be levied to every citizen.
The market will tell you the value of anything.
Socialism in any form is the bane of humankind.
“Liberals” are anything but liberal.
“Fair” is a place where pigs go to compete for ribbons.
Equality of “outcome” is not assured.

lamberts-lost-tooth
04-03-2010, 07:13 PM
I believe in a lot of things that others have said in here and wont repeat them...But here are some other things that I hang my hat on.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-I believe that the Founding Fathers...having indured more persecution and absence of freedom than current generations could imagine, had a BETTER understanding of how to build a document that provides the foundation of liberty, then they are given credit for.

-I believe that the sheer FACT that we are one of the only nations in the history of the world, who have young men and women who are willing to die for the freedoms of OTHER countries, is sadly overlooked.

- I believe that we need to QUIT looking at Europe as a template for social change. If things there were so good...my ancestors would have stayed.

-I believe that a person who has put on the soldiers camo's knows more about patriotism then a politician who equates it with wealth distribution.

-I believe that racism is taught...and that more has been done at my daughters junior high lunch table to heal bigotry, then has been done in the oval office. Simple application vs abstract thinking.

-I believe that there is a God...and that MOST people who deny His existence don't want to think of the possible repercussions of their life and their actions... IF there is a Higher Authority.

I believe that abortion is the murder of an innocent, and the death penalty is earned by the quilty.

I believe that a good portion of the "poor"...have "poor ways" and that true compassion means education not just handouts.

I believe that "work ethic" isnt just working hard...its a value system in which one realizes that there is personal reward in working hard. That character is built through a sense of self reliance and self sufficiency.

Fire Haley
04-03-2010, 07:46 PM
If ever we are in need of a moderator for, say, a "Politics & Religion" forum, could there be a better candidate?

Wings and beer every Friday if I'm elected

devilsdancefloor
04-03-2010, 08:08 PM
I believe in God, Family ,Country & the steelers.

I believe the constitution is Black and white NO grey areas to be exploited.

I am FIRM believer in work hard not wait on the porch waiting for the government check


I believe teachers are underpaid to teach, which means the system doesnt need 4 or 5 administrators per 1 teacher CUT the administrative side and pay the teacher a bit more.

I believe service men and women deserve the respect that this society gives to so called "stars". They also deserve better pay for what they do every day.

I believe unions have made the unions LAZY & GREEDY.

I believe in fiscal responsibility & accountability.



there is so much more, but will not go on.

Vincent
04-03-2010, 08:33 PM
Wings and beer every Friday if I'm elected

Will they be "free"? We live in a time when things are "free".

Hammer67
04-04-2010, 09:06 PM
Will they be "free"? We live in a time when things are "free".


Charity is ok! :wink02:

silver & black
04-04-2010, 09:19 PM
I’ve said it in other threads, and I’ll start by saying it again - I’m not at all interested in politics. With few notable exceptions, politics and politicians in general disgust me. However, as long as there are politicians, there will be politics, and as long as there are politics, citizens need to pay attention and act so that politicians don’t drive the ship of state into the rocks. What we are experiencing today is becoming the extreme case.

Having been born in the first 100 days of the first Eisenhower administration, I grew up in the beginnings of the greatest prosperity in the history of mankind. It was at the end of one of the bloodiest periods of history. It was also the visible beginning of the internal struggle for the soul of this country, that struggle having begun with Wilson, and then grew substantially with FDR.

We grew up in the evil shadow of totalitarianism in the various manifestations of 20th Century socialism – fascism, nazism, and outright communism, and lived with the legacy of socialist tyrants Lenin, Hitler, Stalin, FDR, Mussolini. The seminal events that shaped my early thinking were Khrushchev boasting that the sovs would bury us from within, and the anti-war movement’s reaction to the Viet Nam war, which validated some of Nik’s bravado. We watched as the Frankfurt School and their spawns Marcuse, Horkheimer, Fromm, Benjamin, Adorno, Lowenthal, et al systematically destroyed American education through the indoctrination of cultural marxism. Just preceding and during my lifetime, socialism has repeatedly left wakes of murdered millions.

With that as a backdrop, here are some of my positions…


With the exception of the 16th amendment, the Constitution of the United States is a blessing of vision that serves us every bit as well today as it did in the days of its framers. Those that proposed the 16th, and those that ratified it should have been shot.
This is a representative republic, not a democracy, by design. Most folks you hear talking about “democracy’ are socialists.
The federal gubmint exists to uphold the constitution, protect the borders and citizens, maintain a viable currency, and to provide the representatives from the states with meeting accommodations. Period. All else is the province of the states.
Gubmint that governs best governs least.
Gubmints exist to serve the interests of their constituents, not the opposite.
A statesman will place his country’s best interest ahead of his own, regardless of the consequences to himself. A politician will place his own best interest ahead of his country’s regardless of the consequences to his country.
Americans are free to pursue life, liberty, and happiness.
We are free to do not as we want but what we ought.
The money I earn is my money to use as I ought, not as a gubmint decrees.
If there is such a thing as an “appropriate” income tax, the same percentage would be levied to every citizen.
The market will tell you the value of anything.
Socialism in any form is the bane of humankind.
“Liberals” are anything but liberal.
“Fair” is a place where pigs go to compete for ribbons.
Equality of “outcome” is not assured.


Yes, Sir! :thumbsup: