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CaliStillersFan
04-21-2010, 08:40 PM
For those that think we "true steelers fans" should care more about the integrity of our team over winning, I hope you use that same morality on Sunday when you hand over your money to the Catholic church. See I expect stupid jocks to act like stupid jocks and I expect my priests to act like priests, not the other way around. I watch Steelers games because I want to see them win. I would get behind trading Ben if he was actually CONVICTED of something not accusations from drunken college chicks.

Rick5895
04-21-2010, 08:40 PM
Colt McCoy could end up being a better Qb...BUT I guess the same could be said about Tebow or any other QB (tom brady 7th round?)
We trade Ben and our # 18 pick for a top 10 pick 1st and 3rd round plus their 1st round next year

I like McCoy but if Ben was to be traded, it would hope it be just him (not our 18) to get another teams 1 and 2 and 1 next year, maybe we would add one of our 5's. IMO

NJarhead
04-21-2010, 08:41 PM
What QB would you trade for Ben if you could?

The answer is no one. Ben is the best QB for he Steelers. Without him, we are a 500 team.

He has not been charged, so he should not have received a suspension.

Some Steeler fans forget about the 27 years of mediocrity before Ben led us to 2 SBs.

He is a once in a lifetime QB.

27 years of mediocrity? .500 team? :doh:

Yea we suffered but it wasn't for 27 years. Since the early 90's we were in the hunt much more than we were not.

He was suspended because it was determined he violated the leagues Player Conduct Policy. Just the way it is. He'll be back and we shouldn't be expecting to lose those first four games without him either. We're a good team.

CargoJon
04-21-2010, 08:41 PM
It's Goodell - he's killing this league.

JSH6487
04-21-2010, 08:41 PM
For those that think we "true steelers fans" should care more about the integrity of our team over winning, I hope you use that same morality on Sunday when you hand over your money to the Catholic church. See I expect stupid jocks to act like stupid jocks and I expect my priests to act like priests, not the other way around. I watch Steelers games because I want to see them win. I would get behind trading Ben if he was actually CONVICTED of something not accusations from drunken college chicks.

:thumbsup: so true.

SteelPride1207
04-21-2010, 08:42 PM
Posted this before but...

A guy goes out with his buddies on his birthday, club hops, drinks, picks up a girl and has sex. DAMN...the guy definately needs jail time, at the very least, a six game suspension.

I am SOOOO glad that us lifelong Steeler fans stay away from alcohol, picking up girls, and having sex. And God knows...none of us ever stepped foot into a college bar, drank with some hot sororiety girl and have it lead directly to sex.

Truth is...Ben R did nothing wrong that night...if you are talking about the STANDARD RITUAL of getting laid in most colleges. His mistake was placing himself as a QB of the Steelers in a position where THIS GARBAGE could happen.

At what point though...does making a bone-headed SOCIALLY & LEGALLY ACCEPTABLE act deserving of being suspended from your job for six games... especially when co-workers like Vick, etc were actually charged with crimes and receive less?

The Rooney's are hypocrites and I don't trust Jolly (In Bob Kraft's backpocket) Roger Goodell.

It's pretty clear the media completely avalanced Ben's (and other supporting testimony) side of the story while HIGHLIGHTING and promoting as FACT the version given by a "habitually drunk sororiety girl open to getting DTF" that night.

The fact that half of Steeler Nation has bought into the media's hype shows extremely poor and unfair judgement. If Ben was guilty of poor judgement that night....Steeler fans calling for his punishment is 10x as guilty of poor judgement now. Maybe those fans should be suspended from all message boards for the next 60 days.

SteelerEmpire
04-21-2010, 08:43 PM
Who doesn't the media lynch ?? But more importantly, who doesn't Goodell lynch ?? I didn't see the media put a gun to his head to almost (if not all ready) wipe out Ben...

steeldawg
04-21-2010, 08:44 PM
Great article

steelpride12
04-21-2010, 08:45 PM
Enough with these posts!

Atranox
04-21-2010, 08:46 PM
I am SOOOO glad that us lifelong Steeler fans stay away from alcohol, picking up girls, and having sex. And God knows...none of us ever stepped foot into a college bar, drank with some hot sororiety girl and have it lead directly to sex.

And how many of us were accused of rape MULTIPLE times?

Look, the FIRST time Ben was accused of this shit last year NOTHING happened. No media lynching, no suspension, no public outburst, no trade talks. The second time? That's where shit hit the fan. Ben had his chance, and being a complete dumbass, he banged a drunk chick in a club while ALREADY UNDER RAPE ACCUSATIONS. That doesn't make him guilty - but he's 100% responsible for his actions and what comes of his actions.

NJarhead
04-21-2010, 08:46 PM
Enough with these posts!

Agreed.

Prok
04-21-2010, 08:48 PM
Only way I could ever get behind us trading Ben would be if we got a block buster deal that INCLUDED a good starting QB plus excellent picks. And i don't think that happens. Ya just don't trade your franchise QB.

I'll put it this way. Ben is to the offense what Troy P is to the defense. Now, who would want Troy P traded ? And don't bother with the Troy never got in trouble stuff. This is about value to the team.

We have us a SB contender almost yearly. Why on God's green earth would we want to disrupt that is beyond me.

NJarhead
04-21-2010, 08:48 PM
For those that think we "true steelers fans" should care more about the integrity of our team over winning, I hope you use that same morality on Sunday when you hand over your money to the Catholic church. See I expect stupid jocks to act like stupid jocks and I expect my priests to act like priests, not the other way around. I watch Steelers games because I want to see them win. I would get behind trading Ben if he was actually CONVICTED of something not accusations from drunken college chicks.

I guess I'm covered, but I think it best not to share my view of the Catholic Church.

Some of us place morals first. Some of you place winning first. It be what it be home boy.

JSH6487
04-21-2010, 08:49 PM
Really I don't even like the whole reason as being the "Player Conduct Policy". There's a ton of players who do and will continue to do the exact same thing that Ben did, which is go to clubs and use your fame to score consensually with drunk chicks. How are any of them supposed to know ahead of time that they will be falsely accused of rape? There is absolutely nothing wrong with the way Ben represented the league and it's player conduct policy. If it wasn't for the false accusation this wouldn't even be a story obviously, and it really is a shame.

NJarhead
04-21-2010, 08:50 PM
Only way I could ever get behind us trading Ben would be if we got a block buster deal that INCLUDED a good starting QB plus excellent picks. And i don't think that happens. Ya just don't trade your franchise QB.

I'll put it this way. Ben is to the offense what Troy P is to the defense. Now, who would want Troy P traded ? And don't bother with the Troy never got in trouble stuff. This is about value to the team.

We have us a SB contender almost yearly. Why on God's green earth would we want to disrupt that is beyond me.


:rofl:

Will you calm down. lol. You're like freaking out over there aren't you. :chuckle:

He's not going anywhere...unless we get that deal you speak of. relax.

Atranox
04-21-2010, 08:54 PM
If he weren't a high profile white player the league would be going after him!!

Did the league go after Ben during the first accusation?

NJarhead
04-21-2010, 08:54 PM
Really I don't even like the whole reason as being the "Player Conduct Policy". There's a ton of players who do and will continue to do the exact same thing that Ben did, which is go to clubs and use your fame to score consensually with drunk chicks. How are any of them supposed to know ahead of time that they will be falsely accused of rape? There is absolutely nothing wrong with the way Ben represented the league and it's player conduct policy. If it wasn't for the false accusation this wouldn't even be a story obviously, and it really is a shame.

Try to think of it this way. Ben's got to face the consequences. The suspension is probably the least of his worries. He's pissed us all off. I think we can all agree on that. With that and the humility of being ordered into treatment, we may be able to enjoy the rest of his years as a Steeler without worry because he'll have truly learned his lesson. Heck, he may even be better for it.

Prok
04-21-2010, 08:55 PM
:rofl:

Will you calm down. lol. You're like freaking out over there aren't you. :chuckle:

He's not going anywhere...unless we get that deal you speak of. relax.

Unless you got blood pressure meds, shaddap.

:chuckle: :chuckle:

Steel Warrior
04-21-2010, 08:56 PM
Lots of speculation and lots going on behind the scenes. Has anybody heard a peep from Ben's camp, I haven't. I think the Rooneys knew from Ben's lawyers that if it was excessive (more than a 2/1 suspension), they'd fight it all the way to the Supreme Court. So, the Rooneys knew what would happen fron Ben's camp and thus started fishin' as they don't want to be part of the mess to follow (they won't get any takers at this point).

Correct me if I'm wrong, but nobody has been suspended a game for off -the -field activities, besides drug tests, until today, THAT, wasn't arrested or charged with a crime. Goodell has met his match as Ben has the bucks and lawyers to challenge Goodell's ruling, the others haven't. Ben hasn't been charged with anything and Goodell can dictate how he lives his life?

We're talking civil liberties and what an employer's rights are when you're off-the-clock. It's gonna be a real mess in my opion and that's why the Rooney's want out. One of Ben's lawyers will be on Mike and Mike tomorrow, will be interesting.

NJarhead
04-21-2010, 08:57 PM
Unless you got blood pressure meds, shaddap.

:chuckle: :chuckle:

You're beyond blood pressure meds. How about a quaalude? :chuckle:

7SteelGal43
04-21-2010, 09:00 PM
Well if you don't want it- allow me to hijack it then..


Polian: Colts won't discipline Foster

Associated Press

INDIANAPOLIS -- Indianapolis Colts president Bill Polian says the team will not discipline defensive tackle Eric Foster, who faces a sexual assault lawsuit.

A 22-year-old hotel receptionist is suing Foster, claiming that he sexually assaulted her in his room at an Indianapolis hotel before the AFC Championship Game on Jan. 24.

Polian said Wednesday that the team has no reason to discipline Foster because police investigated the incident and prosecutors later decided not to file charges.

He says Foster remains with the team and will participate in its offseason program.

The Associated Press is not naming the woman because it generally does not identify alleged victims of sexual assault.

http://abclocal.go.com/wtvd/story?section=&sa=TS&eid=5122609

-----------------------------

The Colts want wins, not choir boys, I can't blame them.



But the simple fact that he wasn't as high profile a player and the case wasn't splashed all over every media outlet, he's free to go about his life after the charges were dropped ? Does it have anything to do with the fact that it's strike #2 for Mr. Roethlisberger ? Is it because the difference circumstances in Fosters case and Bens case ? What gives ? Why the seeming double standard ? Someone 'splain.

JSH6487
04-21-2010, 09:00 PM
I sure as hell hope you're right man...and if Ben remains a Steeler, I will eventually get over it and root for the Steelers like nothing ever happened.

I know you don't, but I honestly think Ben is going to be moved. The Steelers have made their position quite clear that they're not standing by Ben. It is absolutely everywhere now that the Steelers are shopping him around. There has to be some truth to it.

zulater
04-21-2010, 09:02 PM
Lots of speculation and lots going on behind the scenes. Has anybody heard a peep from Ben's camp, I haven't. I think the Rooneys knew from Ben's lawyers that if it was excessive (more than a 2/1 suspension), they'd fight it all the way to the Supreme Court. So, the Rooneys knew what would happen fron Ben's camp and thus started fishin' as they don't want to be part of the mess to follow (they won't get any takers at this point).

Correct me if I'm wrong, but nobody has been suspended a game for off -the -field activities, besides drug tests, until today, THAT, wasn't arrested or charged with a crime. Goodell has met his match as Ben has the bucks and lawyers to challenge Goodell's ruling, the others haven't. Ben hasn't been charged with anything and Goodell can dictate how he lives his life?

We're talking civil liberties and what an employer's rights are when you're off-the-clock. It's gonna be a real mess in my opion and that's why the Rooney's want out. One of Ben's lawyers will be on Mike and Mike tomorrow, will be interesting.


http://forums.steelersfever.com/showthread.php?t=51190


I'm with you, I really hope Ben through his lawyers starts to mount an offensive.

Steely McSmash
04-21-2010, 09:05 PM
Personally I thought the OP was joking. Made me laugh.

SMR
04-21-2010, 09:05 PM
Wow, I wish ESPN would show this article - YEAAAHHHH RIGHT!!!

Prok
04-21-2010, 09:08 PM
Personally I thought the OP was joking. Made me laugh.

No way man. I would totally kick him in the nuts.

:chuckle::chuckle:

wiz1120
04-21-2010, 09:10 PM
Let's relax here for a minute.

First, I am in no way defending Ben as a person. My opinion is that we have one side of the story, and even knowing just one side, he can't be charged with anything, so I have a lot of doubts in my mind about this case. Again, we don't know the FACTS, so I don't know how people can make an opinion, let alone be against him on this.

Second, the Rooneys are about to make the biggest mistake I've ever seen a football team make. Unless they know something we don't, (this is the only thing I can think of), then why trade the face of your franchise, your best player in at least 15 years, and the leader of your football team based on allegations?

If the Rooneys know something I don't, then I apologize to them for this comment. But if we are really trading Ben based on 2 flimsy cases, than the Rooneys are making the biggest mistake an owner could possibly make.

For all you Laker fans out there, I bet your happy the Rooneys didn't own that team....Kobe woulda been gone a long time ago.


Remember, Kobe actually went to trial. and it turned out her allegations were false....WEIRDDDDD

Prok
04-21-2010, 09:12 PM
You're beyond blood pressure meds. How about a quaalude? :chuckle:

Want me to pm my address ??

:thumbsup:

NJarhead
04-21-2010, 09:15 PM
I sure as hell hope you're right man...and if Ben remains a Steeler, I will eventually get over it and root for the Steelers like nothing ever happened.

I know you don't, but I honestly think Ben is going to be moved. The Steelers have made their position quite clear that they're not standing by Ben. It is absolutely everywhere now that the Steelers are shopping him around. There has to be some truth to it.

I'm going on what Art Jr. indicated rather than what the media is throwing out there. He stated that they want to see him turn himself around and get focused. They have to afford him the opportunity to do that.

Ed Bouchette, unless I'm mistaken, was countering all of the crap Adam Scheffter was throwing out there. And I honestly have never seen the Steelers' front office announce such a big decision before they took any action. That's why I think it's either a ploy, the media or both.

El-Gonzo Jackson
04-21-2010, 09:15 PM
I thought 4 games was what he was gonna get. The possiblity of 6 is sending a strong message and I think he will still be a Steeler this season, but only serve the 4 games.

He needed this kind of punishment to get himself in check. I only hope this is the kind of wake up call that is similar to Chris Carter being cut by the Eagles.

BigBenFn7
04-21-2010, 09:16 PM
I suppose I would support whatever the Rooney's do but I can't imagine trading Ben. Personal issues aside, he pretty much embodies what a Pittsburgh Steeler is, on the field.

NJarhead
04-21-2010, 09:17 PM
Let's relax here for a minute.

First, I am in no way defending Ben as a person. My opinion is that we have one side of the story, and even knowing just one side, he can't be charged with anything, so I have a lot of doubts in my mind about this case. Again, we don't know the FACTS, so I don't know how people can make an opinion, let alone be against him on this.

Second, the Rooneys are about to make the biggest mistake I've ever seen a football team make. Unless they know something we don't, (this is the only thing I can think of), then why trade the face of your franchise, your best player in at least 15 years, and the leader of your football team based on allegations?

If the Rooneys know something I don't, then I apologize to them for this comment. But if we are really trading Ben based on 2 flimsy cases, than the Rooneys are making the biggest mistake an owner could possibly make.

For all you Laker fans out there, I bet your happy the Rooneys didn't own that team....Kobe woulda been gone a long time ago.


Remember, Kobe actually went to trial. and it turned out her allegations were false....WEIRDDDDD


Unless they traded straight up for Jamarcus Russell, that distinction still belongs to the Raiders. :chuckle:

NJarhead
04-21-2010, 09:17 PM
Want me to pm my address ??

:thumbsup:


:sofunny:

wiz1120
04-21-2010, 09:18 PM
couple weeks ago i said we should trade Bb to oakland for their 1st rounder and osamwa and was told that was dumb. Now after the suspension who knows what we'll get.

exact quote from last thread is below. How does the deal look now.

Now here me out..
BB to oakland for their 1st round pick and asamwa (not sure if thats how you spell it)

With their pick we take the best tackle available - probably Bulaga
and move willie to right guard
with our pick we take either haden or wilson (the best cb available)

our defensive backfield now consists of osamwa, haden/wilson, taylor (in nickle situations), troy, and clark
r


asamwa's contract is too much...no way Steelers would pay a CB that kinda money

STEELMANIAK
04-21-2010, 09:18 PM
There has been many posts opposing trading Ben Rapistbergur, I know he hasn't been proven guilty of anything but the guy is definitely a creep and can't control himself and the Roony's arn't having it. Don't get me wrong, I thank Ben for the 2 super bowls, but thinking back he really didn't play that great in either of them aside from the game winning throw and one of the best plays in super bowl history. No doubt he has been clutch, but by no means a Payton Manning or Tom Brady. No player is bigger than the franchise and quite frankly its the Rooney's organization and they can do what they please with it, and I will support them 100%

I follow PAC-10 football pretty closely and I have full confidence that Dennis Dixon can and will be a force to reckon with playing QB at the NFL level. Dixon has dynamics that the NFL hasn't seen in a long time. Dixon has also proven he can win games single handedly.

I hope we can get a top 10 pick and pickup not only one of the best O Lineman available but also a stud CB like Kyle Wilson or Joe Haden at pick #18.

Anyone else with me? :tt:

CaliStillersFan
04-21-2010, 09:19 PM
We're talking civil liberties and what an employer's rights are when you're off-the-clock. It's gonna be a real mess in my opion and that's why the Rooney's want out. One of Ben's lawyers will be on Mike and Mike tomorrow, will be interesting.

I totally agree, if I was Ben I would use that money to stand up for the rest of the professional athletes in this country and make a point, he needs to sue the NFL. I'm sure he'll have the backing of the players union; that's what they are there for, to protect the athletes from getting screwed like this.

I laugh when I read all these comments from people about how employers have the right to fire you for anything at any time, since I'm self employed I know that's not true. There are all kinds of hoops corporations must jump through to get rid of a bad employee or else they are liable to wrongful termination. This normally doesn't happen though because people are either stupid and don't know their rights, or more often than not because they don't have the money to sue. When things like this happen to rich people, lawsuits always follow.

Ben is giving everyone a free lesson in the law. If you are accused of something, you never open your mouth. So for those looking for this happen, you can quit holding your breath. Ben's lawyers won't allow him to say a word.

LamarrWoodleysFade
04-21-2010, 09:19 PM
No...

Vincent
04-21-2010, 09:20 PM
If we'd have had Marino in the 80's / 90's we'd have 10 or 11 rings by now and the Cowboys would have been lucky to get 1 in the 90's. :banging:

Now think about that scenario for a minute. You're probably right on the ring count. And that is the reason I have always believed we "passed" on Danny (as Dan referred to him). We watched that kid star in high school, then become the best QB in the country at Pitt, and all right here in his home town. So he falls into their laps and what do they do? "Pass". Gabe Rivera. Whaddyou freekin nuts??!!

I will always believe they got a call from the "league".

Atranox
04-21-2010, 09:22 PM
No.

Won't be upset if he does though. What happens, happens. Ben got himself into this mess, and if he gets traded, I fully understand why.

Nadroj 20
04-21-2010, 09:22 PM
I will have to live with whatever the team decides to do, BUT i absolutely DO NOT think we should trade Ben away.

Neil-Still-Rules-14
04-21-2010, 09:23 PM
No.

wiz1120
04-21-2010, 09:23 PM
There has been many posts opposing trading Ben Rapistbergur, I know he hasn't been proven guilty of anything but the guy is definitely a creep and can't control himself and the Roony's arn't having it. Don't get me wrong, I thank Ben for the 2 super bowls, but thinking back he really didn't play that great in either of them aside from the game winning throw and one of the best plays in super bowl history. No doubt he has been clutch, but by no means a Payton Manning or Tom Brady. No player is bigger than the franchise and quite frankly its the Rooney's organization and they can do what they please with it, and I will support them 100%

I follow PAC-10 football pretty closely and I have full confidence that Dennis Dixon can and will be a force to reckon with playing QB at the NFL level. Dixon has dynamics that the NFL hasn't seen in a long time. Dixon has also proven he can win games single handedly.

I hope we can get a top 10 pick and pickup not only one of the best O Lineman available but also a stud CB like Kyle Wilson or Joe Haden at pick #18.

Anyone else with me? :tt:


He's a creep cause you were there and he hit on you?

No.

Allegations aren't always true, stay levelheaded, and realize there are two sides to every story. See Kobe Bryant rape case.



And he didn't do much other than one of the greatest drives and throws in Super Bowl History..what a moron

Steely McSmash
04-21-2010, 09:23 PM
I could go either way on Ben.

I don't have full confidence in Dixon after 1 game, that's for sure. He has potential but hes not a lock, and certainly not a lock from his college career.

NJarhead
04-21-2010, 09:24 PM
I totally agree, if I was Ben I would use that money to stand up for the rest of the professional athletes in this country and make a point, he needs to sue the NFL. I'm sure he'll have the backing of the players union; that's what they are there for, to protect the athletes from getting screwed like this.

I laugh when I read all these comments from people about how employers have the right to fire you for anything at any time, since I'm self employed I know that's not true. There are all kinds of hoops corporations must jump through to get rid of a bad employee or else they are liable to wrongful termination. This normally doesn't happen though because people are either stupid and don't know their rights, or more often than not because they don't have the money to sue. When things like this happen to rich people, lawsuits always follow.

Ben is giving everyone a free lesson in the law. If you are accused of something, you never open your mouth. So for those looking for this happen, you can quit holding your breath. Ben's lawyers won't allow him to say a word.

See and I think the NFL needs to stop making 24 year old millionaires (i.e. rookie pay scale) and hold these players accountable for their actions. They are all told after the draft that they are ambassadors of the league now (not unlike we're told in the Military when out and about). There are guidelines for player conduct and they need to be followed. Ben knows this and has accepted that he's at fault for having failed to uphold the NFL's standard.

Stone
04-21-2010, 09:24 PM
NFL Conduct Violation Suspensions

The 16 players suspended under the personal conduct policy by NFL commissioner Roger Goodell since he took office in 2006:

• Rocky Bernard (assault, 1 game)

• Michael Boley (domestic abuse, 1 game)

• Fred Evans (fight with police, 2 games)

• Chris Henry (various arrests, 8 games)

• Larry Johnson (simple assault, 1 game)

• Tank Johnson (6 counts of possessing an unlicensed gun, 2 month jail term, 8 games)

• Pacman Jones (various arrests, 16 games, 6 games)

• Marshawn Lynch (weapons violation, 3 games)

• Ricky Manning (felony assault, 1 game)

• Brandon Marshall (various, including assaulting girlfriend, 1 game)

• Bryant McKinnie (street fight, 4 games)

• Rob Reynolds (domestic disturbance, 16 games)

• Ben Roethlisberger (misconduct-no charges/arrests, 6 games)

• Donte' Stallworth (DUI-vehicular homicide, 16 games)

• Fabian Washington (domestic violence, 1 game)

• Michael Vick (federal dogfighting charges, plea agreement, 2 games)

-- Associated Press


I find it odd that people (not necessarily on here) want to say that Vick paid his price by going to jail...well, that is the price he paid for his crimes -- that has nothing to do with the NFL's policy, at least according to Goodell! Yet he only had a 2-game suspension to serve!

How can anyone not look at Roethlisberger's 6 games for "misconduct-no charges/arrests" as overkill?

Chidi29
04-21-2010, 09:24 PM
Just pulled up the NFL Conduct Policy. It can be found here.
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2798214

It states, "Any Covered Person arrested for or charged with conduct prohibited by this policy will be required to undergo a consultation and additional counseling as directed."

Referring to a long list of criminal activity. The key words in the quote being "arrested or charged" which, of course, didn't happen to Ben.

I bring this up because Ben can't even associate with the team until he goes through this counseling. No showing up at the practice facility, no meetings, and he can't participate in OTAs. No, it isn't the biggest deal in the world but matters to a certain extent. And I take offense to someone clearly violating their own policy.

One other tidbit. Big Ben got just two less games than Chris Henry did. Henry was arrested four times before getting suspended. Little perspective for ya.

Kaeg
04-21-2010, 09:25 PM
NO..

xXTheSteelKingsXx
04-21-2010, 09:26 PM
:coffee:....Nope...

wiz1120
04-21-2010, 09:26 PM
Unless they traded straight up for Jamarcus Russell, that distinction still belongs to the Raiders. :chuckle:


I meant the Steelers..sorry

Kaeg
04-21-2010, 09:27 PM
After extensive consultation with Robert Kraft, Goodell decided this was the best course of action........

NJarhead
04-21-2010, 09:27 PM
There is a suspicion that he may be a sociopath (NOT a psychopath). I would imagine that any fear of that justifies the order.

Sociopath - a person, as a psychopathic personality, whose behavior is antisocial and who lacks a sense of moral responsibility or social conscience.

It gets even more interesting with regards to Ben if you read the symptoms and signs.

Steely McSmash
04-21-2010, 09:27 PM
Asomugha

Preacher
04-21-2010, 09:29 PM
No its not.. The league rules is totally in favor of teams with passing offenses.. Teams that have franchise QB's have a distinct advantages over ones that don't..

Um. I am not arguing league rules nor advantages. I am arguing... from the position that the Steelers would be in if Ben leaves, what would be the more sure fired way of getting the Steelers to the playoffs this year or next. With the offense we have, that way would be through the running game. The passing game we have is very specific to Ben and his skills. IT would be another 1 in a million to pick up another Ben right now.

Back to three yards and a cloud of dust. Then playoffs against the best defenses in the league. Then AFC championship games where we need a QB to provide something to get us over the edge. And the realization that we are back to that era know as YBBAB. (years between Ben and Bradshaw) Close but no cigar.

Yes and no. I think the FO now understands the absolute importance of a franchise QB, that we can't just pick up any old guy and put him back there. I think more emphasis would be placed on finding Ben's replacement-- DOn't forget, 13 of those years came because Cowher did not value the QB position as much as he did the run game. Matter of fact, stories are out there that they were going to pass on Ben as well, but Dan Rooney stepped in and forced the pick. So there is no real reason to expect another 20 some odd years.

We'll have no ****ing offense without Ben. Case closed. Care to actually give some arguments?

our offense would shit the bed if Ben gets traded. that's really all there is to it.

you've got Mendenhall who is good, no fullback, a below average oline, an aging Hines Ward, young Mike Wallace, ARE, and then whatever other WR wins the job in camp. of course we have Miller, but he will become nothing more than a traditional Steelers TE and stay in to block for the rest of his career. that nice contract we gave him will become a big waste.
McHugh is coming back this year and has done a good job sliding over from TE. Frank the Tank is in his second year and will hopefully pick it up. If not, we have 11-12 draft pics (per my scenario) to find another guy.

Our O line isn't below average for the run. That is precisely my central reasoning in the entire thread. The WR's were going to be fantastic before Ben was suspended... so why are they now so bad? Miller would become more of a blocker, but he also becomes a perfect safety outlet for the QB, which enhances the PA even more.

CaliStillersFan
04-21-2010, 09:29 PM
I love the Rooney's and the Steelers because they have always cared about winning and they have done a great job over the years developing winners at least for the 30+ years I've been a fan. But when morality becomes more important than winning I'm done being a fan. The Steelers are a sports franchise not a church. I'm sick and tired of the moral minority's opinions ruling public the discourse in this country. I think if we take away their churches tax free status I bet they would shut the hell up.

SteelCityMom
04-21-2010, 09:29 PM
Man, is it draft day yet so all these silly Ben threads can be merged.

And no...I don't think he should be traded. I also think it's hilariously hypocritical that you call him Ben Rapistberger (or however the hell you spell it nowadays) and then thank "this creep" for the 2 SB wins and admit you know he was never found guilty of anything.

Jesus I'm tired of this crap.

Steel_Bus_24
04-21-2010, 09:30 PM
No

Hope he wins 3 more SBs for us, as the haters pull their out in frustration and jealousy

steelerdude15
04-21-2010, 09:31 PM
NO.

CaliStillersFan
04-21-2010, 09:31 PM
There has been many posts opposing trading Ben Rapistbergur, I know he hasn't been proven guilty of anything but the guy is definitely a creep and can't control himself and the Roony's arn't having it. Don't get me wrong, I thank Ben for the 2 super bowls, but thinking back he really didn't play that great in either of them aside from the game winning throw and one of the best plays in super bowl history. No doubt he has been clutch, but by no means a Payton Manning or Tom Brady. No player is bigger than the franchise and quite frankly its the Rooney's organization and they can do what they please with it, and I will support them 100%

I follow PAC-10 football pretty closely and I have full confidence that Dennis Dixon can and will be a force to reckon with playing QB at the NFL level. Dixon has dynamics that the NFL hasn't seen in a long time. Dixon has also proven he can win games single handedly.

I hope we can get a top 10 pick and pickup not only one of the best O Lineman available but also a stud CB like Kyle Wilson or Joe Haden at pick #18.

Anyone else with me? :tt:

No but I'm in for trading you as a fan. ;)

steel9guy
04-21-2010, 09:32 PM
HECK NO!

Curtain_of_Steel
04-21-2010, 09:32 PM
Yea I'm so tried of Ben and his antics, I mean what has he done for us over 6 years than any other qb we would've had would've done?

1) 15-1 season, rookie year? Probably a record that will never be broken
2) How many come from behind wins? Pretty close to leading all active QB's
3) Not 1 but 2 Superbowls
4) Should've had 1 mvp trophy and 1 superbowl MVP, because without him passing to the 420 guy, there would be nothing to catch.
5) Plays hurt, plays hurt, shoulders the blame and passes out the praise, never says its him winning the games. What other QB does this? NO ONE, Peyton lays balame and has laid blame, Brady is a freaking baby, mcnabb blames anyone and his mom for mistakes and so on.
6) Has aided charity organization, gives money away and his time.
7) For 6 years, every game that I have watched with exception of maybe 2-3 has been exciting. Not just because of the Steelers but because Ben is a unique talent, where quit is not in his vocab.
8) He is human, young, living life, makes mistakes, just like the rest us. However despite us having a retarded muslim for a president, you are still innocent till proven guilty, and being stupid is not a crime(yet). So everyone can argue your tired of his antics etc. But Ben is innocent and has committed no crimes!

So I ask again, how can you be tired of what Ben has done for this organization? Without him the above doesn't happen and you can take that to the bank.

Rogers better be suspended for multiple games, or what does it tell you? The NFL says it ok to pack a loaded gun in your bag and take it on a plane. Be all you can be.

The guy from the colts? Sexual asault, but no charges because evidence is weak? Going to be suspended right?

Reggie Bush ran up rent, refused to pay his bills? Had a lawsuit filed against him? What does that tell the youth of america? don't pay your bills till your sued? Great role model there.

The suspension is a joke, when no crimes was committed.

wdsteel
04-21-2010, 09:32 PM
Dixon is not ready and only way i would be happy in a trade is to the 49er's for the 2 1st round picks 13&17 and a 3rd this year and next...other then that Ben stay's..

But .......next year Ben has a higher chance of being traded then this year...the FO will let him redeam himself giving him a chance and his value will then be TOP $

Shoes
04-21-2010, 09:34 PM
Is the Draft here yet?

drizze99
04-21-2010, 09:34 PM
I am tired of his "EGO" and the negativity he brings to the Steelers and Steeler Nation. Are we or the Rooney's supposed to pardon him because he QB'd two Steeler teams in Super Bowl wins? Ben does whatever Ben wants to do regardless of what is asked of him. I would love to know what he is thinking right now with all the trade talks surfacing.

Do I hope he is traded? not sure how to answer that
Would I be mad at the Rooney's/Steelers if they did trade him? NO

One person is not better than the entire team or organization. What if the Chief was still around? What do you think he would say?

vindrow
04-21-2010, 09:34 PM
There has been many posts opposing trading Ben Rapistbergur, I know he hasn't been proven guilty of anything but the guy is definitely a creep and can't control himself and the Roony's arn't having it. Don't get me wrong, I thank Ben for the 2 super bowls, but thinking back he really didn't play that great in either of them aside from the game winning throw and one of the best plays in super bowl history. No doubt he has been clutch, but by no means a Payton Manning or Tom Brady. No player is bigger than the franchise and quite frankly its the Rooney's organization and they can do what they please with it, and I will support them 100%

I follow PAC-10 football pretty closely and I have full confidence that Dennis Dixon can and will be a force to reckon with playing QB at the NFL level. Dixon has dynamics that the NFL hasn't seen in a long time. Dixon has also proven he can win games single handedly.

I hope we can get a top 10 pick and pickup not only one of the best O Lineman available but also a stud CB like Kyle Wilson or Joe Haden at pick #18.

Anyone else with me? :tt:


Nope, but can we trade you for a beer and some nacho's.

St33lersguy
04-21-2010, 09:35 PM
NO NO NO NO NO!!!! Why would we settle for Kordell II when the steelers have a great playmaker in Big Ben. Ben has done stuff on a football field I don't even think Bradshaw could do.

Texasteel
04-21-2010, 09:35 PM
Allow me to step in here if I may. I'm not a Steelers fan but I do post here occasionally. I live in PIT and have many Steelers fans as friends. An outside perspective is always good.

I'm glad the OP created this thread and I totally agree with his comments. If I was a Steelers fan I'd have to imagine that I'd be fed up with Ben and the controversies what seems like every offseason. I know I was when it was Ricky Williams on my team making unwanted headlines. I know you guys gotta defend your QB and everything but some of the things I'm reading here are just plain ridiculous.

Racism? Reverse racism? (can someone explain the difference?) This has nothing to do with race. Also has nothing to do with whether or not you are charged with a crime. So Vick got a lighter suspension. There's black players who got longer suspensions, who didn't get charged with an actual crime. Our guy Jason Ferguson just got suspended for 8 games for steroids basically, was never charged with a crime of which I'm aware. I'm not saying it's unfair or complaining about it. I'm just citing an example.

Ben f***ed up! That's it. It's been going on now. He should know better plain and simple. Especially considering he has a past with this very issue. The league has a pretty strict personal conduct code, moral clauses etc. You don't have to necessarily be charged with anything.

One last thing and it's not to be arrogant or act like I know everything. But why are so many surprised by the length of the suspension? I've been telling my Steeler buddies to expect at least 4 games maybe even 8. At least 3 of those guys told me they only thought Ben would get a 2 game suspension. He will most likely be back after 4 anyway.

Edit: I just realized I gotta get rid of this Joey Porter sig...Yuck


May want to change you avatar as well. That one could be considered sexual harassment.

steelerchad
04-21-2010, 09:36 PM
Hell NO I'm not with you.
You know, I'm not sure your assessment of Dixon being great in the pac10 is reason for him to be great in the NFL. Leinart was pretty good also. So was Ryan Leaf for God's Sake.
I'll stick with Big Dumb Ben for now. I believe being dumb is the only thing he's guilty of right now.

Good God Man. Don't you remember these guys.
Brister, Malone, Stewart, Woodley, Graham, ODonnell, Tomzcak, Maddox, Stoudt.
That's where we're headed if we trade Ben. I can't do another 25 years with guys like this.
Please save us from this insanity.

NJarhead
04-21-2010, 09:37 PM
I meant the Steelers..sorry

I know. I was taking a shot at the Raiders. :wink02:

Curtain_of_Steel
04-21-2010, 09:37 PM
That definition is about 50% of the world, lol and 100% of politicians, LOL

Ben should've punched out Goodell, got arrested, plead out and received a 4 game suspension. Get 2 off for doing anger management with jack nicholson as his mentor

steelerdude15
04-21-2010, 09:37 PM
Plus i felt left out by not getting to start my own Ben thread. ;-)
It's in style these days. :wink02:

SteelCityMom
04-21-2010, 09:38 PM
One person is not better than the entire team or organization. What if the Chief was still around? What do you think he would say?


I don't know. I wonder if it would be anything along the same lines of what he said to Ernie Holmes after he shot it out with a police helicopter and passing motorists because he was depressed and had marital troubles (I'm sure drugs/alcohol played a part in this as well).

P.S. The Chief basically vouched for Ernie to stay and there was no team or NFL backlash against him.

CaliStillersFan
04-21-2010, 09:39 PM
I am amazed by the number of people on this board that seem to have blind faith behind Ben. You have the right to your opinion of course, but if this was a Bengal (pick one), Raven (Ray Lewis), Cowboy (Newton, Irvin,etc..) or a player from some other team your opinions would be drastically different (obviously).

Bottom line is, AGAIN Ben has put another season in jeopardy because of his irresponsible actions (1st motorcycle accident no helmet and his questionable decisions with women).

It's not blind faith for Ben. Its the FACT the he has not been convicted of anything!!! Why is that so hard to understand? If you think the NFL was justified in their actions, you should move to China where behavior like that is acceptable. My blind faith is in the supposed freedoms we have in this country. I believe in things like "INNOCENT UNTIL PROVEN GUILTY", you know the tenets of our constitution that make us a "free people".

It's a sad day when morality means more to people than the rule of law. We're so close to becoming the next pre-WW2 Germany it's pathetic.

wdsteel
04-21-2010, 09:39 PM
:kick:or:kick:hmmm:buttkick: or :kick: hey was this it ?:kick:


look what i can do --->:juggle:

NJarhead
04-21-2010, 09:39 PM
That definition is about 50% of the world, lol and 100% of politicians, LOL

Ben should've punched out Goodell, got arrested, plead out and received a 4 game suspension. Get 2 off for doing anger management with jack nicholson as his mentor

Hmmm., yea at some point in their lives; I'd have to agree. lol

wiz1120
04-21-2010, 09:39 PM
Good post Curtain

Steel Warrior
04-21-2010, 09:40 PM
See and I think the NFL needs to stop making 24 year old millionaires (i.e. rookie pay scale) and hold these players accountable for their actions. They are all told after the draft that they are ambassadors of the league now (not unlike we're told in the Military when out and about). There are guidelines for player conduct and they need to be followed. Ben knows this and has accepted that he's at fault for having failed to uphold the NFL's standard.

Sorry, but I disagree, an employer doesn't have many rights when you're off-the-clock and haven't broken the law. What's next from Goodell, "you have kid a out of wedlock and you're suspended, you visit a strip club and you're suspended, you go to a KKK or Black Panthers meeting and you're suspended, you act like a jerk in a bar and some bimbo says you assualted her but there's no evidence and you're suspended". Where does it stop? Goodell has crossed the slippery slope.

Statik
04-21-2010, 09:42 PM
No I don't think Ben should be traded. I have faith in the FO to do what they feel is best for the organization, as the Steelers are historically the best franchise in NFL history, and will make the decision they need to. Personally, let's let him go through the required punishment(s) and give himself a chance for redemption.

Statik
04-21-2010, 09:43 PM
I would like Ben with another SB trophy here. Get up on the podium at the game, accept his MVP trophy and say the following.

This is for the fans and my team mates who stood behind me. I did this for you. the rest of you can kiss my ass including the Rooneys you don't deserve this trophy.
Than a reporter asks. Big Ben now that you have told off the people who didn't believe in you, where are you heading? I'm heading home, I'm retiring! F$ck U Goodel and Rooneys. CYA ya in the hall of fame.

That's a bit much.....

CargoJon
04-21-2010, 09:44 PM
"It will be considered conduct detrimental for Covered Persons to engage in (or to aid, abet or conspire to engage in or to incite) violent and/or criminal activity."

I'm still wondering, if this is the case, how Ben violated the policy. There was no evidence to indicate he did any of the actions prohibited in the policy. Clearly his actions were not proven to be criminal because not only was he not charged, he was not even arrested.

This pisses me off even more now that I've actually read the policy.

NEPAsteeler
04-21-2010, 09:44 PM
Because it's Roger Goodell.

SteelCurtain5643
04-21-2010, 09:44 PM
I dont know if this was mentioned earlier in the thread, but i jus read oakland might be the only landing spot for ben, and if so, the steelers would ask for asomugha along with their first round pick

wiz1120
04-21-2010, 09:44 PM
I would like Ben with another SB trophy here. Get up on the podium at the game, accept his MVP trophy and say the following.

This is for the fans and my team mates who stood behind me. I did this for you. the rest of you can kiss my ass including the Rooneys you don't deserve this trophy.
Than a reporter asks. Big Ben now that you have told off the people who didn't believe in you, where are you heading? I'm heading home, I'm retiring! F$ck U Goodel and Rooneys. CYA ya in the hall of fame.


I can't think of a better scenario...but if he stays and wins one, itll mean the Rooneys are behind him. They won't keep him on the team if they don't support him.

vindrow
04-21-2010, 09:46 PM
Another persons perspective on this:



n case this is not posted here yet...the following is from Bouchette, today, on PG+.

Given the circumstances of the day, I don't think Ed will mind me copying him in here...

While I have to keep this short because I’m working on my draft story and mock draft plus the BR story, I want to tell you to ignore the trade talk. Well, don’t IGNORE it, but I don’t believe there will be a trade. Certainly they are not pursuing it with a number of teams, as has been reported elsewhere today.

Teams are trying to cherry pick, calling the Steelers to see if they want to do a Santonio Holmes-like trade. Maybe not for a fifth-round pick but for a less-than-value pick.

Never say never, but I just do not see them trading him. He’ll serve his four games and they will move on and this will blow over. He may never be the most-liked player on the team, but I believe Roethlisberger has a real chance here to remake his sullied image and reputation. He has an uphill climb, but if he wants to do it, he can.

He still has no criminal record and in the eyes of the law has done no wrong. That’s a plus for him as he moves ahead. It’s all up to him now.

steelerdude15
04-21-2010, 09:46 PM
Roger Goodell sucks.

NEPAsteeler
04-21-2010, 09:47 PM
The Patriots suck and Tom Brady is gay. :chuckle:

CargoJon
04-21-2010, 09:48 PM
The Patriots suck and Tom Brady is gay. :chuckle::thumbsup:

vindrow
04-21-2010, 09:48 PM
they were saying on ESPN that he could be back for the start of training camp.

stillers4me
04-21-2010, 09:49 PM
Goodell seems to more bothered by the alcohol consumption that the rape allegation. Still, there were no charges or an arrest.



http://www.steelers.com/news/article-1/Roethlisberger-suspended-for-six-games/c1df3307-a405-4208-93d2-9cd4d20e9bbe

wdsteel
04-21-2010, 09:49 PM
:champs:if you want a trade..try 49er's picks 13 & 17 and 3rd this and next year
13 Brandon Graham
17 Kyle Wilson
18 trade to cards for 26 ,88,89
26 Pouncey.
Now u have 52 and 4 3rd round picks to play with..

jjpro11
04-21-2010, 09:49 PM
i know McHugh filled in well at FB and preferred him over anyone we've had since Kreider.. i have my doubts that he can fill in full time and assume a Kreider-Bus like role of constant blocking and pounding. being a cross between a 3rd TE and FB is nice because it saves us a roster spot and he is a good blocker when called upon. i just don't think he can handle being a full back full-time. he's 6-5.. that's a lot of stress on the back for a guy trying to get low on defenders and block at the non-stop work rate of a fullback. nobody knows what we have in Summers.. i am not even going to take into account what he did when healthy last season because he had so little playing time.

the oline will only become worse because teams will stack the box against whatever mediocre QB we put back there. they are not haulers like we had in 04-05.. they will be exposed under that kind of pressure up front.

i don't like our receiving core after the Holmes trade and i surely wouldn't like it if Ben were gone. Ward is as reliable as they come when healthy, but we can't count on that at this point in his career. injuries and the lingering pain will only increase until he retires because of his physical play. Wallace is in his second year, and while i think he will be good for us for years to come.. we still can't say 100% for certain after he spent most of the time last season exposing nickel and dime corners. after that we have ARE, who was at one time my favorite Steeler, but his play slipped while in Washington. maybe the Redskins weren't a good fit for him, but he wasn't a stud receiver here either. who knows what Sweed will do and whoever else we decide to draft.

Miller will never again touch the stats he put up over the past couple seasons because all he will turn in to an extra tackle who once in a while will remind us of what a play-maker he is capable of being.

NJarhead
04-21-2010, 09:49 PM
Excerpts from Commissioner Goodell's letter:

"I recognize that the allegations in Georgia were disputed and that they did not result in criminal charges being filed against you. My decision today is not based on a finding that you violated Georgia law, or on a conclusion that differs from that of the local prosecutor. That said, you are held to a higher standard as an NFL player, and there is nothing about your conduct in Milledgeville that can remotely be described as admirable, responsible, or consistent with either the values of the league or the expectations of our fans."
"Your conduct raises sufficient concerns that I believe effective intervention now is the best step for your personal and professional welfare."
"I believe it is essential that you take full advantage of the resources available to you. My ultimate disposition in this matter will be influenced by the extent to which you do so, what you learn as a result, and a demonstrated commitment to making positive change in your life."

Read more: http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/10111/1052202-100.stm#ixzz0ln12YLcb

CaliStillersFan
04-21-2010, 09:49 PM
See and I think the NFL needs to stop making 24 year old millionaires (i.e. rookie pay scale) and hold these players accountable for their actions. They are all told after the draft that they are ambassadors of the league now (not unlike we're told in the Military when out and about). There are guidelines for player conduct and they need to be followed. Ben knows this and has accepted that he's at fault for having failed to uphold the NFL's standard.

I totally agree with the rookie pay scale being a joke, but that doesn't mean that they give up their rights as Americans just because they play in the "beloved NFL". No one is ever fired from a job for what they do on their own time. This is just bad precedent and if it made it to the Supreme Court (hopefully it doesn't, because they got better things to do), Ben would win easily.

Not to mention that the NFL's image is already a joke with stories almost everyday about one of their athletes getting into trouble, yet no one else has been suspended without a conviction. Does Goodell think that if he says things like "needing to protect the image of the NFL" enough times that we will actually believe that his league isn't full of a bunch of over-privileged criminals that live above the law?

steelreserve
04-21-2010, 09:50 PM
For those that think we "true steelers fans" should care more about the integrity of our team over winning, I hope you use that same morality on Sunday when you hand over your money to the Catholic church. See I expect stupid jocks to act like stupid jocks and I expect my priests to act like priests, not the other way around. I watch Steelers games because I want to see them win. I would get behind trading Ben if he was actually CONVICTED of something not accusations from drunken college chicks.

Well, there's that way of looking at it, and there's also the opposing view -- It's hard to cheer very hard for someone if you think they're a jerk, even if they're on your team. Not saying we need to get rid of him because of it, but I think Ben has crossed that line for a lot of people and I can't really blame them for feeling that way.

Curtain_of_Steel
04-21-2010, 09:51 PM
This isn't a lenghty thing, even Tiger Woods with 26 mistress's was back in a week or 2. Hopefully he get the one with a good golf course.

I can hear Ben now in therapy.

Yea we were in the bathroom. Obviously a bad choice. there was no freaking room there, she kept mumbling something. I kept telling her its not polite to speak with your mouthful. Yet she kept trying to talk. This is the problem with the youth of today they have no manners. Ironically I'm the one in therapy, lol

NJarhead
04-21-2010, 09:52 PM
Standard of Conduct:
While criminal activity is clearly outside the scope of permissible conduct, and persons who engage in criminal activity will be subject to discipline, the standard of conduct for persons employed in the NFL is considerably higher. It is not enough simply to avoid being found guilty of a crime. Instead, as an employee of the NFL or a member club, you are held to a higher standard and expected to conduct yourself in a way that is responsible, promotes the values upon which the League is based, and is lawful. Persons who fail to live up to this standard of conduct are guilty of conduct detrimental and subject to discipline, even where the conduct itself does not result in conviction of a crime. Discipline may be imposed in any of the following circumstances:


Criminal offenses including, but not limited to, those involving: the use or threat of violence; domestic violence and other forms of partner abuse; theft and other property crimes; sex offenses; obstruction or resisting arrest; disorderly conduct; fraud; racketeering; and money laundering;
Criminal offenses relating to steroids and prohibited substances, or substances of abuse;
Violent or threatening behavior among employees, whether in or outside the workplace;
Possession of a gun or other weapon in any workplace setting, including but not limited to stadiums, team facilities, training camp, locker rooms, team planes, buses, parking lots, etc., or unlawful possession of a weapon outside of the workplace;
Conduct that imposes inherent danger to the safety and well being of another person; and
Conduct that undermines or puts at risk the integrity and reputation of the NFL, NFL clubs, or NFL players.


Read more: http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/10111/1052222-66.stm?cmpid=relatedarticle#ixzz0ln1dxxsJ

JCPsteelers
04-21-2010, 09:52 PM
"It will be considered conduct detrimental for Covered Persons to engage in (or to aid, abet or conspire to engage in or to incite) violent and/or criminal activity."

I'm still wondering, if this is the case, how Ben violated the policy. There was no evidence to indicate he did any of the actions prohibited in the policy. Clearly his actions were not proven to be criminal because not only was he not charged, he was not even arrested.

This pisses me off even more now that I've actually read the policy.


Yeah its total bullcrap.. But that's Goodell for you..

Chidi29
04-21-2010, 09:53 PM
WarDen,

I am not talking about the suspension.

I am talking about the counseling. Which is a completely different set of guidelines. You have to be charged in order to go through this evaluation.

Curtain_of_Steel
04-21-2010, 09:54 PM
Thanks Wiz, I believe in my mind it says it all.

NJarhead
04-21-2010, 09:54 PM
Sorry, but I disagree, an employer doesn't have many rights when you're off-the-clock and haven't broken the law. What's next from Goodell, "you have kid a out of wedlock and you're suspended, you visit a strip club and you're suspended, you go to a KKK or Black Panthers meeting and you're suspended, you act like a jerk in a bar and some bimbo says you assualted her but there's no evidence and you're suspended". Where does it stop? Goodell has crossed the slippery slope.

No, and he's also under pressure from the United States congress to ensure acceptable player conduct. Agree with it or not.

Here's the "catch-all" that Ben falls into:

http://forums.steelersfever.com/showpost.php?p=806965&postcount=13

The UCMJ has one too.

steelreserve
04-21-2010, 09:54 PM
Good God Man. Don't you remember these guys.
Brister, Malone, Stewart, Woodley, Graham, ODonnell, Tomzcak, Maddox, Stoudt.
That's where we're headed if we trade Ben. I can't do another 25 years with guys like this.
Please save us from this insanity.

I'm pretty sure we're not headed anywhere near that direction if we get rid of Ben. Not only did we not try hard enough at the QB position for all those years, we were also extremely unlucky. The odds of OMG another 25 years of that shit are just about zero. Not to mention, this is probably a more complete team than any we had in the 80s or 90s, and any halfway decent QB could probably come in and give s a reasonable shot.

JCPsteelers
04-21-2010, 09:55 PM
Conduct that undermines or puts at risk the integrity and reputation of the NFL, NFL clubs, or NFL players.

okay so what does that cover? Does Antonio Cromatie who has 7 kids with 6 different women and has missed child support payments fall into that category? Isn't that embarrassing to the league? Why isn't he suspended and put into counseling?

CaliStillersFan
04-21-2010, 09:56 PM
Well, there's that way of looking at it, and there's also the opposing view -- It's hard to cheer very hard for someone if you think they're a jerk, even if they're on your team. Not saying we need to get rid of him because of it, but I think Ben has crossed that line for a lot of people and I can't really blame them for feeling that way.

They're football players - I just assume they are all jerks. I've never met a football player in my life I would let near my daughter. I don't want to see us lose our franchise QB because some idiot thought Ben was the second coming of Christ. That's just ridiculous. If anything comes from this I hope it's that those of you that idolize these guys have learned that they are not worth idolizing. And that just because you live your lives with a high moral standard doesn't mean the rest of us do.

JCPsteelers
04-21-2010, 09:57 PM
HELL NO..

NJarhead
04-21-2010, 09:57 PM
I totally agree with the rookie pay scale being a joke, but that doesn't mean that they give up their rights as Americans just because they play in the "beloved NFL". No one is ever fired from a job for what they do on their own time. This is just bad precedent and if it made it to the Supreme Court (hopefully it doesn't, because they got better things to do), Ben would win easily.

Not to mention that the NFL's image is already a joke with stories almost everyday about one of their athletes getting into trouble, yet no one else has been suspended without a conviction. Does Goodell think that if he says things like "needing to protect the image of the NFL" enough times that we will actually believe that his league isn't full of a bunch of over-privileged criminals that live above the law?

Ben would not win easily. I assure you of that.

And Goodell, hate him as we might, is trying to re-establish the reputation. Which I actually believe isn't too bad (not the NFL alone anyway).

Oh, and I don't think the rookie pay scale is a joke, I think we need one to both prevent (as best we can) producing a number of 24 year old millionaires every year, but also to protect our franchises from the Jamarcus Russells out there.

Statik
04-21-2010, 09:57 PM
Interesting read. Just adds to my opinion of a six game suspension being too harsh. Only thing he's "guilty" of is having sex with a drunk chick, and buying drinks for some girls (at a BAR) who he didn't know were underage.

Exactly, this whole situation was blown out of proportion by the media hyping a negative story.

....it's not Ben's job to card the chicks, it's the bar's.

wdsteel
04-21-2010, 09:58 PM
16 n 0 or 0 n 16.... Ben or no Ben im always a steller fan untill they trade me away witch dont think they can.. what can they get for me ? hmmm a bag of hotdog rolls? lol nm

KeiselPower99
04-21-2010, 09:59 PM
Another persons perspective on this:



n case this is not posted here yet...the following is from Bouchette, today, on PG+.

Given the circumstances of the day, I don't think Ed will mind me copying him in here...

While I have to keep this short because I’m working on my draft story and mock draft plus the BR story, I want to tell you to ignore the trade talk. Well, don’t IGNORE it, but I don’t believe there will be a trade. Certainly they are not pursuing it with a number of teams, as has been reported elsewhere today.

Teams are trying to cherry pick, calling the Steelers to see if they want to do a Santonio Holmes-like trade. Maybe not for a fifth-round pick but for a less-than-value pick.

Never say never, but I just do not see them trading him. He’ll serve his four games and they will move on and this will blow over. He may never be the most-liked player on the team, but I believe Roethlisberger has a real chance here to remake his sullied image and reputation. He has an uphill climb, but if he wants to do it, he can.

He still has no criminal record and in the eyes of the law has done no wrong. That’s a plus for him as he moves ahead. It’s all up to him now.

Unless he screws up again he will be here for the next 5 years.

VTsteel
04-21-2010, 10:00 PM
No way!
We better not trade him - That 6 game suspension is absolutely ridiculous.

3 first rounders . . . and maybe we'd be a better team. Letting Ben go for anything less most likely will not make us better.

NJarhead
04-21-2010, 10:00 PM
WarDen,

I am not talking about the suspension.

I am talking about the counseling. Which is a completely different set of guidelines. You have to be charged in order to go through this evaluation.

Actually it's not/one doesn't need to be charged or arrested. Click the link. The next paragraph covers to evaluation too.

Plus, he's stated that he thinks it's in Ben's best interest as well.

In any event, the guidelines of the conduct policy (even the "catch-all" as they are known)are grounds for actions such as suspension and evaluations. It's how it's written.

Chidi29
04-21-2010, 10:01 PM
okay so what does that cover? Does Antonio Cromatie who has 7 kids with 6 different women and has missed child support payments fall into that category? Isn't that embarrassing to the league? Why isn't he suspended and put into counseling?

Good point.

As others have said, these opens up pandora's box when you try to police what is morally right and wrong.

Shouldn't Eric Foster be suspended for some time or the six games Ben got because he is accused of sexual assualt and like Ben, reportedly exposed himself to a girl?

Edman
04-21-2010, 10:03 PM
Thank you.

The same people who want him gone will be the same one's complaining on September 12th against the Falcons when we only score 6 points.

You mean like last December when the Steelers scored only 6 points against the 32nd ranked Browns Defense with Ben at the helm while fighting for their playoff lives?

How about failing to score a TD in all redzone possessions to lose the second Bengal game?

BlastFurnace
04-21-2010, 10:04 PM
No. They will set this franchise back years if they trade him.

Dixon is not an NFL QB.

NJarhead
04-21-2010, 10:06 PM
okay so what does that cover? Does Antonio Cromatie who has 7 kids with 6 different women and has missed child support payments fall into that category? Isn't that embarrassing to the league? Why isn't he suspended and put into counseling?


I'm sure he could be considered with regards to the missed child support payments as that is a legal issue, but I would also imagine that these things are viewed in tiers: 1-5 with 1 being the worst. Cromartie missing payments but resolving it on his own may be a tier 5, whereas Ben being involved with alcohol, under aged drinkers, sex and a rape allegation gives the NFL a bit more of a black eye thus making it a higher tier. Wouldn't you say?

The tier thing is just a model of mine. I'm not saying that's exactly how it works. Common sense applies first and foremost.

Steel Warrior
04-21-2010, 10:06 PM
No, and he's also under pressure from the United States congress to ensure acceptable player conduct. Agree with it or not.

Here's the "catch-all" that Ben falls into:

http://forums.steelersfever.com/showpost.php?p=806965&postcount=13

The UCMJ has one too.

Of course no one is gonna challenge the military rules, I work for the gov, I know that. But they sure as hell can challenge the crap in that link and I suspect that's what's gonna happen. Just speculating at this point.

JCPsteelers
04-21-2010, 10:07 PM
Another persons perspective on this:



n case this is not posted here yet...the following is from Bouchette, today, on PG+.

Given the circumstances of the day, I don't think Ed will mind me copying him in here...

While I have to keep this short because I’m working on my draft story and mock draft plus the BR story, I want to tell you to ignore the trade talk. Well, don’t IGNORE it, but I don’t believe there will be a trade. Certainly they are not pursuing it with a number of teams, as has been reported elsewhere today.

Teams are trying to cherry pick, calling the Steelers to see if they want to do a Santonio Holmes-like trade. Maybe not for a fifth-round pick but for a less-than-value pick.

Never say never, but I just do not see them trading him. He’ll serve his four games and they will move on and this will blow over. He may never be the most-liked player on the team, but I believe Roethlisberger has a real chance here to remake his sullied image and reputation. He has an uphill climb, but if he wants to do it, he can.

He still has no criminal record and in the eyes of the law has done no wrong. That’s a plus for him as he moves ahead. It’s all up to him now.


yeah he said something similar on ESPN sportscenter with Brian Kenney today.. I posted it in one of the threads. Pretty much word for word what he said then..

Chidi29
04-21-2010, 10:07 PM
Actually it's not/one doesn't need to be charged or arrested. Click the link. The next paragraph covers to evaluation too.

Plus, he's stated that he thinks it's in Ben's best interest as well.

In any event, the guidelines of the conduct policy (even the "catch-all" as they are known)are grounds for actions such as suspension and evaluations. It's how it's written.

I just saw the same exact thing I posted.

"Apart from any disciplinary action, persons arrested, charged or otherwise appearing to have engaged in conduct prohibited under this policy will be required to undergo a formal clinical evaluation. Based on the results of that evaluation, the person may be encouraged or required to participate in an education program, counseling or other treatment deemed appropriate by health professionals. The evaluation and any resulting counseling or treatment are designed to provide assistance and are not considered discipline; however, the failure to comply with this portion of the Policy shall itself constitute a separate and independent basis for discipline."

I don't care what Goodell thinks is in the best interest of Ben. He has to follow his own policy.

Yeah, counseling is usually protocol in these situations. Of course, there hasn't been a case where a player hasn't been suspended under the personal conduct policy where he hasn't been at least arrested or charged of a crime.

CaliStillersFan
04-21-2010, 10:08 PM
I was agreeing with you about the rookie pay scale Warden. I'm not for rookies getting paid millions when they haven't contributed to the success of a team.

I guess we'll see if Goodell is really trying to change the reputation the NFL by the way he handles Foster's situation. I don't believe he is since so many other athletes get in trouble and never get suspended. If he says 1 false rape accusation is OK but 2 crosses the line, then he's full of crap. That's why we should not allow accusations to determine anything without a conviction.

Leftoverhard
04-21-2010, 10:08 PM
No but I'm in for trading you as a fan. ;)

I concur. :toofunny:

So, that's a big NO.

no matter how you feel, what would possess you to take initiative with a thread like this? Oh, you're not really a fan, that's it. Carry on.

NJarhead
04-21-2010, 10:09 PM
Of course no one is gonna challenge the military rules, I work for the gov, I know that. But they sure as hell can challenge the crap in that link and I suspect that's what's gonna happen. Just speculating at this point.

Wait a minute, if he agreed to the rule prior to receiving his big pay day, then he sure as hell can't back out of it now. And yes, those rules ARE subject to change.

As much legal assistance as Ben could afford, the NFL could afford more and I doubt Ben wants anything but to move on anyway.

I'll bet I could find a similar statement in my employee handbook as I work for a large international corporation myself.

tony hipchest
04-21-2010, 10:11 PM
nope

I could go either way on Ben.

.

:wtf:

NJarhead
04-21-2010, 10:11 PM
I was agreeing with you about the rookie pay scale Warden. I'm not for rookies getting paid millions when they haven't contributed to the success of a team.

I guess we'll see if Goodell is really trying to change the reputation the NFL by the way he handles Foster's situation. I don't believe he is since so many other athletes get in trouble and never get suspended. If he says 1 false rape accusation is OK but 2 crosses the line, then he's full of crap. That's why we should not allow accusations to determine anything without a conviction.

The other thing is, Ben never spoke out. And who knows what was said in the meeting. All I know is Ben is walking around with his tail between his legs. Is that the posture of a man who knows he did nothing wrong? Hell no, it isn't.

BTW - I figured I was mistaking that rookie pay scale thing. Sorry.

BlastFurnace
04-21-2010, 10:11 PM
I think we'd be good 7 to 10 points myself.

Just sayin.

LOL...you're a funny man Tom.

JCPsteelers
04-21-2010, 10:12 PM
I whereas Ben being involved with alcohol, under aged drinkers, sex and a rape allegation gives the NFL a bit more of a black eye thus making it a higher tier. Wouldn't you say?

The tier thing is just a model of mine. I'm not saying that's exactly how it works. Common sense applies first and foremost.

So now the NFL has an alcohol policy? I didn't know that.. So what is it, one drink per night? two? Do they have to ask permission to drink?



BTW, I wouldn't exactly say leaving 6 kids uncared for is exactly a low tier thing..

MasterOfPuppets
04-21-2010, 10:12 PM
The same guy who recently had McNabb going to the Raiders? OK....
well i guess that was closer to the truth than reed insisting mcnabb will be the eagles starting qb in 2010...:noidea:

86WARD
04-21-2010, 10:12 PM
with or without Ben this year, the records will be relatively the same...give or take a game.

I'm all for trading Ben if we get Nnamdi, Oaklands 1 and a late round pick...otherwise, stick it Al...

86WARD
04-21-2010, 10:14 PM
This is why Goodell is so inconsistent...with Pacman, he created a new policy...

BlastFurnace
04-21-2010, 10:14 PM
You mean like last December when the Steelers scored only 6 points against the 32nd ranked Browns Defense with Ben at the helm while fighting for their playoff lives?

How about failing to score a TD in all redzone possessions to lose the second Bengal game?

I see what you are saying, but let's be honest, the entire team was hozed by then. This team, on and off the field, has not been right since the KC loss. Locker room issues, poor play on the field, off the field issues, rumors about the coaching staff and players.

This ship needs to be righted. I'm not sure it has been yet.

Kratos
04-21-2010, 10:14 PM
Well, there's that way of looking at it, and there's also the opposing view -- It's hard to cheer very hard for someone if you think they're a jerk, even if they're on your team. Not saying we need to get rid of him because of it, but I think Ben has crossed that line for a lot of people and I can't really blame them for feeling that way.

I agree and disagree. Actually, before any of this happened I thought Ben was a jerk. Can anybody really say that they have ever liked Ben as a person? There's a lot of guys on the team that seem like good guys and have really likeable personalities(Troy, Willie, Farrior, Clark etc), but for me Ben has never been one of them. Every single time I see him near a microphone I cringe. He comes off as entirely phony. Even when he's trying to seem likeable, you can sense that it's BS. I don't know, I've just never been proud of the person he is. I've always been a little disappointed that I couldn't like him more as a person. That may seem weird but it's true. You want to really like the men on your team.

As a player, I love him. He's awesome. But now, for a lot of people it becomes, does the good outweigh the bad? Can you route for him and not feel dirty?

86WARD
04-21-2010, 10:15 PM
Would be awful if they traded him...BUT..if they could get Nnamdi, Oakland's first pick and a late round pick for Ben and a 5th...do it in a second!

pancake
04-21-2010, 10:18 PM
yeah he said something similar on ESPN sportscenter with Brian Kenney today.. I posted it in one of the threads. Pretty much word for word what he said then..

I hope Ed is right... If we keep him, I could see most of us laughing how our FO almost traded away a SB winning QB several years ago...

86WARD
04-21-2010, 10:19 PM
Hell NO I'm not with you.
You know, I'm not sure your assessment of Dixon being great in the pac10 is reason for him to be great in the NFL. Leinart was pretty good also. So was Ryan Leaf for God's Sake.
I'll stick with Big Dumb Ben for now. I believe being dumb is the only thing he's guilty of right now.

Good God Man. Don't you remember these guys.
Brister, Malone, Stewart, Woodley, Graham, ODonnell, Tomzcak, Maddox, Stoudt.
That's where we're headed if we trade Ben. I can't do another 25 years with guys like this.
Please save us from this insanity.


Brister - AWESOME!
Malone - Worst Steelers QB in history!
Stewart - Pro Bowler...would've been Hall of Fame worthy had he stayed SLASH!
Woodley - Awful!
Graham -irrelevant...shouldn't be on the list.
ODonnell - Super Bowl QB!
Stoudt/Tomzcak - meh...
Maddox - Touchdown Tommy...loved the ride!

Could probably find at least 18-20 teams with a list far, far worse than that...

Vincent
04-21-2010, 10:20 PM
IMHO, regardless of whether or not they unload him, an era has passed. Ben’s poor judgment sealed that fate for himself, the team, and the nation on that March night in Georgia.

He has been charged with nothing. He has been convicted of nothing. He is “guilty” of nothing. But what he did or didn’t do that night has set in motion a series of events that has everybody even remotely connected to the Steelers is a state of anger, bewilderment, and every emotion in between. Those that aren’t are enjoying their Schadenfreudefests in their own special ways.

This young man’s remarkably poor decision making has materially damaged his family, his team, and this city on now several occasions. After his near death, sordid news of last summer, who would have thought he had this left in him? But, “here we are”. There is no reason to believe that this last episode will finally corral Dark Ben.

I think the Rooney have reached their threshold of disgust. They are validated by the polls that indicate 60+% want Ben to be traded. Calls to their offices are overwhelmingly demanding a trade. God knows how many #7 jerseys show up at the Steelers’ offices each day. But all I’ve said to this point though is emotion. Opinion. And this is a business. That is why I think the Rooneys did the “Ben Franklin” and weighed the pros and cons very carefully. It probably went something like this…

Pros – He’s 28 years old, is in the prime of his career, and has tremendous upside. We have him locked up in a very cap friendly deal for the rest of his best years. He has the caché of a historic record to this point. We have talent around him that can make several more runs.

Cons - He has now established himself as a PR disaster looking for a place to happen. His marketability is zero. He has destroyed his caché. The damage of this latest fiasco has yet to be fully determined, to him, the team, the city. There is no telling what this episode has done to the chemistry of the team, and if he can recover sufficiently to lead. What has this done to his pschye? How many more times will he do something like this. How many other episodes don’t we know about? He is one or two concussions away from retirement. Will his value ever be higher than it is right now?

So they did what any responsible business owner would do; they shopped him. The market will always tell you the value of something. Apparently there wasn’t much of a market for a SB MVP with serial offenses. And to this point in the evening there aren’t suitors with enticing offers lining up to avail themselves of a remarkably successful young franchise quarterback.

I’ve stated my case in other posts. I think he’s a pig, and emotionally I want him gone. But the rational side only wants that to happen on the best of terms. If they can get the value we all think “is there”, then “good”. Sayonara jagoff. If not, well, he still “has all that upside”. Although I’m not real optimistic about Dark Ben’s future with the Pittsburgh Steelers.

NJarhead
04-21-2010, 10:21 PM
I just saw the same exact thing I posted.

"Apart from any disciplinary action, persons arrested, charged or otherwise appearing to have engaged in conduct prohibited under this policy will be required to undergo a formal clinical evaluation. Based on the results of that evaluation, the person may be encouraged or required to participate in an education program, counseling or other treatment deemed appropriate by health professionals. The evaluation and any resulting counseling or treatment are designed to provide assistance and are not considered discipline; however, the failure to comply with this portion of the Policy shall itself constitute a separate and independent basis for discipline."

I don't care what Goodell thinks is in the best interest of Ben. He has to follow his own policy.

Yeah, counseling is usually protocol in these situations. Of course, there hasn't been a case where a player hasn't been suspended under the personal conduct policy where he hasn't been at least arrested or charged of a crime.

He is following his own policy (in bold above):

otherwise appearing to have engaged in conduct prohibited under this policy will be required to undergo a formal clinical evaluation.

I don't fault him for this. I fault him for that 3 point stance crap, the Hines Ward rule and his love affair with Tom Brady and the Patriots. But not this.

Steel Warrior
04-21-2010, 10:21 PM
Wait a minute, if he agreed to the rule prior to receiving his big pay day, then he sure as hell can't back out of it now. And yes, those rules ARE subject to change.

As much legal assistance as Ben could afford, the NFL could afford more and I doubt Ben wants anything but to move on anyway.

I'll bet I could find a similar statement in my employee handbook as I work for a large international corporation myself.

You're right about the "move on", if I was Ben Id' take it to the Supreme Court and tell the Rooneys thank you for your support, see ya. That rule that Goodell has is so laughable that I really hope it makes it to the Supreme Court, he should have just said "If someone pisses in my Wheaties, and you screw up, you're dead meat.", makes about as much sense as something so vague.

pancake
04-21-2010, 10:22 PM
NO!!!!!! :doh:

NJarhead
04-21-2010, 10:22 PM
So now the NFL has an alcohol policy? I didn't know that.. So what is it, one drink per night? two? Do they have to ask permission to drink?



BTW, I wouldn't exactly say leaving 6 kids uncared for is exactly a low tier thing..

Incidents involving alcohol are always the more scrutinized. Not just in the NFL. It been that way for a loooooong time.

And I don't know the particulars of the Cromartie case.

STEELMANIAK
04-21-2010, 10:22 PM
He's a creep cause you were there and he hit on you?

No.

Allegations aren't always true, stay levelheaded, and realize there are two sides to every story. See Kobe Bryant rape case.



And he didn't do much other than one of the greatest drives and throws in Super Bowl History..what a moron

Ben has had 2 serious allegations of sexual assault. One is questionable, but two? Ben also surrounds himself around 20 year old drunken college girls and obviously can't control himself. The fact that his body guards were blocking the bathroom doors is pretty suspect itself. Looks like your the moron if you cant see passed that. :coffee:

Merchant
04-21-2010, 10:22 PM
Yupp.. meanwhile Foster of the Colts, if anyone has read about, is getting off squeaky clean.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=5122609

CaliStillersFan
04-21-2010, 10:23 PM
The other thing is, Ben never spoke out. And who knows what was said in the meeting. All I know is Ben is walking around with his tail between his legs. Is that the posture of a man who knows he did nothing wrong? Hell no, it isn't.

BTW - I figured I was mistaking that rookie pay scale thing. Sorry.

If you were accused of something, whether you did it or not, your lawyer will tell you to not open your mouth. Also check your employee handbook, I doubt you find anything that says that you can be terminated for something you do on your own time, and if it does I would quit.

How many Pittsburgher's would lose their jobs for getting a DUI? At least that would be a conviction though, Ben just had accusations tossed at him. Would your boss fire you over accusations? I doubt it, that would be a slam dunk wrongful termination suit.

xbroughneck
04-21-2010, 10:24 PM
As a player, I love him. He's awesome. But now, for a lot of people it becomes, does the good outweigh the bad? Can you route for him and not feel dirty?


Don't root for him then.

ROOT FOR THE GUY CATCHIN THE DAMN BALL!!!
ROOT FOR THE GUY GIVING THE GREAT BLOCK THAT LED TO A TD PASS!!
ROOT FOR TOMLIN BEING SUCCESSFUL AT HIS POSITION.
ROOT FOR THE OTHER 51 ACTIVE PLAYERS THAT BENEFIT FROM HAVING A TOOL AS GOOD AS BEN.

Hate him all you want, but don't ruin everything for everyone else because he's stupid. If he commits a crime, punish him. Don't punish every other member of Steeler nation that now expects better than just to get to the playoffs every year. If he acts stupid, do what the league announced they are doing today.

But DON'T give him up without getting equal value. And in this case equal value would be a first round pick AND the best cornerback on your team. NOT a dime less.

BlastFurnace
04-21-2010, 10:24 PM
As a player, I love him. He's awesome. But now, for a lot of people it becomes, does the good outweigh the bad? Can you route for him and not feel dirty?

Do you cheer for James Harrison? That should answer your question if you can cheer for Ben.

NJarhead
04-21-2010, 10:25 PM
You're right about the "move on", if I was Ben Id' take it to the Supreme Court and tell the Rooneys thank you for your support, see ya. That rule that Goodell has is so laughable that I really hope it makes it to the Supreme Court, he should have just said "If someone pisses in my Wheaties, and you screw up, you're dead meat.", makes about as much sense as something so vague.

I'm telling ya, a lot of companies have adopted the "catch all." I honestly don't think Ben would stand a chance. Smarter folks than you and I would go at it and I'm sure Goodell consulted with his legal department prior to making a decision.

steel9guy
04-21-2010, 10:26 PM
I'm sick of hearing people saying to get rid of Ben Roethlisberger. Do we honestly think that Byron Leftwhich is going to get us anywhere? Very rarely is a team this good together and we have EVERYTHING to go out there and win another championship this year. We have a great D and a great Offense and we currently have one of the best QB's to ever wear the black and gold. I know what is coming out against Ben is horrible and I hate that it's at this point but nothing was ever proved against him. The media wouldn't dare report anything good about anybody right? I'm just trying to say that most fans were fed up before we had Ben after the 6-10 season. Do we want to go back there again. And I know this is true that if he does get traded and we have a bad season the fans that wanted him traded are going to be complaining. Well you asked for it if you wanna lose him. I'm not trying to make any enemies or anything but I'm just fed up about this right now. I want a winning team because losing sucks. Ben Roethlisberger needs to be given another chance to remake his image in Pittsburgh.

Chidi29
04-21-2010, 10:29 PM
He is following his own policy (in bold above):



I don't fault him for this. I fault him for that 3 point stance crap, the Hines Ward rule and his love affair with Tom Brady and the Patriots. But not this.

The conduct under the policy says...

Examples of such Prohibited Conduct include, without limitation: any crime involving the use or threat of physical violence to a person or persons; the use of a deadly weapon in the commission of a crime; possession or distribution of a weapon in violation of state or federal law; involvement in "hate crimes" or crimes of domestic violence; theft, larceny or other property crimes; sex offenses; racketeering; money laundering; obstruction of justice; resisting arrest; fraud; and violent or threatening conduct. Additionally, Covered Persons shall not by their words or conduct suggest that criminal activity is acceptable or condoned within the NFL.

It doesn't even say about anything none criminal under the conduct that is prohibited section of the policy.

BlastFurnace
04-21-2010, 10:31 PM
I'm telling ya, a lot of companies have adopted the "catch all." I honestly don't think Ben would stand a chance. Smarter folks than you and I would go at it and I'm sure Goodell consulted with his legal department prior to making a decision.

I agree. Ben's best option is to do what he is doing. Keep his mouth shut, attempt to change and live a clean life and do what they tell him to do.

mesaSteeler
04-21-2010, 10:33 PM
Big Ben pays for wrong-headed decisions
Jason Whitlock
http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/why-big-ben-really-deserved-the-suspension
Updated Apr 21, 2010 7:53 PM ET

Listening to the naive and dishonest media discussion about the latest sexual assault allegation leveled at Ben Roethlisberger, you'd think Usher (and maybe Rick Pitino) was the only other American who wants to make "love in this club."

No wonder NFL commissioner Roger Goodell had such a difficult time ruling on how long to suspend the Pittsburgh quarterback. On Wednesday, Goodell banned Roethlisberger for six games.

It's a fair suspension. Unfortunately, PacBen's transgressions have never been put in proper perspective for the public.

Tiger Woods life coach Herm Edwards declared that Big Ben's "moral compass" is out of whack. Moralizing, shallow newspaper and Internet columnists blasted the 28-year-old Roethlisberger for fishing in a college bar with the oldest lure in the book (alcohol).

And race-baiting simpletons wanted to keep a racial scorecard on how Goodell and the Steelers handled PacBen as opposed to Pacman Jones and kicked-to-the-curb Steelers receiver Santonio Holmes.

A lifetime ban for Big Ben wouldn't have cleaned up the stench of Donte Stallworth's DUI manslaughter, Michael Vick's Bad Newz Kennel, Plaxico Burress' gun conviction, Rae Carruth's baby-mama murder, Pacman's strip-club wilding ... should I carry on?

Now that we know the penalty, let's discuss PacBen in something resembling proper context. There is no doubt Roethlisberger is an idiot worthy of suspension. What I've yet to hear or read is a fair justification for why he deserved punishment.

When the Georgia police released the details of the notes it took during its investigation of Roethlisberger, the media cherry-picked and repeated the alleged "eyewitness" accounts as though they were as unimpeachable as a video replay.

According to the "witnesses," Roethlisberger's bodyguards dragged the accuser to the bathroom, blocked the entrance into the bathroom and Roethlisberger approached the accuser with his penis exposed.

Once these accounts were introduced as "evidence" into the court of public opinion, broadcasters and pundits had all the ammo they needed to convict Ben as "disgusting" and call for Goodell to take swift and hard action.

It was completely irresponsible. Statements made by drunken sorority girls are not facts. Statements made by sober sorority girls about an evening spent bar-hopping and drinking are not facts.

Late last week I received an e-mail from a former sorority president and current advisor to a sorority. She warned me that the media were being foolish for believing the allegations of drunken 20-somethings. She explained what she'd witnessed firsthand as a student and what she now deals with as an advisor.

Some young women use alcohol as an excuse to be sexually aggressive at fraternity houses and nightclubs and then quickly concoct a story of sexual assault when confronted by their disapproving peers. Most of these allegations never make it to police headquarters. The allegations are too sketchy and the accuser's immediate jury of peers reject them.

"I don't believe a bunch of hammered sorority girls in this situation," the former sorority president wrote. "I've seen too much bad behavior amongst them. It's all about having fun and then making sure you're not held accountable and your reputation is still good."

CONTACT JASON WHITLOCK

If you have a question or comment for Jason, submit it below and he may just respond.
Subject: Comment/Question: Name: Email Address: Hometown:


Big Ben's accuser was allegedly wearing a name tag that read DTF -- "down to f---." She engaged in a lewd and highly flirtatious conversation with Roethlisberger.

It's 2010 not 1910. Women vote, drive cars and knock boots at their own discretion. The popular R&B singer Usher makes songs targeted at women. His 2008 smash hit "Love in this Club" was most popular with women. Getting busy in the bathroom or getting a special "bottle service" at a VIP table are nowhere near as rare as joining the "mile high club."

If you read the police accounts, the accuser's sorority sisters drove this case. If Ben's bodyguards dragged the accuser to the bathroom, you could make the argument that her sorority sisters dragged her to the police.

Her initial story to the police was weak at best and made absolutely no sense at worst.

The case was so flimsy that Big Ben was never even arrested. Once she sobered up, the accuser didn't even cooperate with the police.

Let me repeat: PacBen is a freaking idiot who deserved to be suspended. Off the field, he thinks with the wrong head. In pursuit of a wham-bam, he's twice -- that we know of -- placed himself in a vulnerable position.

But the ugly truth is Ben isn't all that different from a lot of guys and girls who use alcohol as their aphrodisiac of choice. Any woman who has belonged to a prominent sorority has heard the lecture about safety rules to follow when entering a male fraternity house for a mixer/party.

"Don't drink the punch. It might be laced with a roofie."

"Don't go anywhere in the house alone."

The rules are reminders that no matter how nice the guy might sound there's a damn good chance he's looking for one-night-stand sex or trying to set up a train. Some of the women are looking for the exact same thing.

So why did Ben deserve suspension?

As Terry Bradshaw eloquently and appropriately explained, Ben doesn't know who he is and what position he holds. He's a millionaire franchise quarterback, an ambassador for the Steelers and the city of Pittsburgh.

He's not Usher, a rock-star sex symbol. NFL players, particularly high-profile quarterbacks, don't get to make "love in this club." That kind of behavior is way too high risk for someone under Ben's spotlight.

PacBen is no different from Pacman. They run with dumb posses. I don't know Goodell's reasoning for the length of Ben's suspension. But the commissioner should've hammered Ben for his "security" staff. Allegedly, Ben's bodyguards kept the bathroom safe from intruders while Ben attempted to or did make "love in this club."

Think about it. Ben basically hired men to hand him KY Jelly and condoms and stand guard while he had public sex. His instructions should've been this:

"Guys, if I get liquored up tonight and try to bang one of these girls, tackle me, drag me to the car, take me to my hotel, guard the door and make sure no one gets into the room with me while I'm drunk."

The accuser's sorority sisters were smarter and more mature than Ben's "bodyguards."

That should've served as the basis of Goodell's suspension.

We don't have a clue about whether the alleged bathroom sex between two drunken idiots was consensual. And we have even less knowledge about how Ben's "moral compass" compares to Herm's, Ben's peers, Goodell's or the broadcasters/pundits morally hyperventilating because Ben likes pretty young thangs.

What we know is Ben is clueless about how he should conduct himself given his position of responsibility.

Steel Warrior
04-21-2010, 10:35 PM
I'm telling ya, a lot of companies have adopted the "catch all." I honestly don't think Ben would stand a chance. Smarter folks than you and I would go at it and I'm sure Goodell consulted with his legal department prior to making a decision.

Maybe smarter than you but not me, just kidding. Guess we might find out in the near future. Like I said, no one else that's been suspended had the resources Ben has, plus, this is the first time a player was suspended that wasn't arrested or charged and it was a big suspension. We'll see.

NJarhead
04-21-2010, 10:35 PM
If you were accused of something, whether you did it or not, your lawyer will tell you to not open your mouth. Also check your employee handbook, I doubt you find anything that says that you can be terminated for something you do on your own time, and if it does I would quit.

How many Pittsburgher's would lose their jobs for getting a DUI? At least that would be a conviction though, Ben just had accusations tossed at him. Would your boss fire you over accusations? I doubt it, that would be a slam dunk wrongful termination suit.

Ben wasn't terminated. He was suspended for violating the policy as it is written. Ben didn't even dispute it.

I have my Employee Handbook out. The conduct section is lengthy so I'm only going to scan it for items that are not black and white:


-You are expected to use common sense and good judgment
-sincere respect for the rights of others
-Conduct contributing to a friendly, cooperative and productive work environment
-avoid action that might be harmful to others, the company or prospective customers
-Failure to observe good house keeping practices


There are three warning levels with a fourth offense leading to termination
However, there a categories that can limit all four levels from being reached prior to suspension and/or termination.

I also recall a condition where they get a cut of anything I invent during my tenure here. ....Don't ask. lol

XxKnightxX
04-21-2010, 10:35 PM
I just find it funny how people try to compare Bens Current suspension with the suspensions form the PAST. You do realize that these previous felons and violators set a stricter and stricter standard for suspensions. And like I said before the bigger they are in position and glory, the harder they Fall. Like it or not, Ben is being set as an example for the league regardless of future and current suspensions. Theyre all individually reviewed cases. Last I heard too when youre accused of being a rapist, that gets your murdered in prison so imagine if Ben would of been convicted of being a registered sexual assault felon. Just my 2 cents. Last I heard we still have a defense. Ben grow up and hope this is the last time you put yourself in these predicaments. Also with the Trade bait the Steelers are doing, its just a way to say to Ben "We can trade you to the Rams or Raiders, Good luck winning a super bowl, youre expendable like all the others." But you just gotta hope it doesnt backfire on the Rooneys lol

Tooquickrich
04-21-2010, 10:35 PM
If you were accused of something, whether you did it or not, your lawyer will tell you to not open your mouth. Also check your employee handbook, I doubt you find anything that says that you can be terminated for something you do on your own time, and if it does I would quit.

How many Pittsburgher's would lose their jobs for getting a DUI? At least that would be a conviction though, Ben just had accusations tossed at him. Would your boss fire you over accusations? I doubt it, that would be a slam dunk wrongful termination suit.

Wow! Go to google and do a search on "Facebook got me fired".

Of course we're talking about people with 6+ figure salaries. McDonald's doesn't care if you have a DUI just as long as you're there to keep pulling fries.

Stu Pidasso
04-21-2010, 10:36 PM
Where's OchoCinco on that list?

steelerjim58
04-21-2010, 10:37 PM
"This young man’s remarkably poor decision making has materially damaged his family, his team, and this city on now several occasions. After his near death, sordid news of last summer, who would have thought he had this left in him? But, “here we are”. There is no reason to believe that this last episode will finally corral Dark Ben."

I've asked this a couple of times on this board, and have yet to get an answer. Just how has the team or the city been damaged by Ben? Other than what has come about because of Adolph Goodell. And for the last time I will say that as long as he hasn't done anything that prevents him from doing his job, the employer should stay out of his business.

NJarhead
04-21-2010, 10:37 PM
The conduct under the policy says...

Examples of such Prohibited Conduct include, without limitation: any crime involving the use or threat of physical violence to a person or persons; the use of a deadly weapon in the commission of a crime; possession or distribution of a weapon in violation of state or federal law; involvement in "hate crimes" or crimes of domestic violence; theft, larceny or other property crimes; sex offenses; racketeering; money laundering; obstruction of justice; resisting arrest; fraud; and violent or threatening conduct. Additionally, Covered Persons shall not by their words or conduct suggest that criminal activity is acceptable or condoned within the NFL.

It doesn't even say about anything none criminal under the conduct that is prohibited section of the policy.

I already posted the relevant section on page one or two.

Vincent
04-21-2010, 10:39 PM
Why are we trying to make sense out of any of this? Its all insanity. Ben's behavior. The league's response. Cromartie's children. Ray-Ray. Stallworth. Brady's a twink. The league's response. Its all FUBAR.

I sure am glad that Lawrence Phillips was banished though. What a mess.

Vincent
04-21-2010, 10:47 PM
Just how has the team or the city been damaged by Ben?

You're kidding. Right?

NJarhead
04-21-2010, 10:47 PM
Why are we trying to make sense out of any of this? Its all insanity. Ben's behavior. The league's response. Cromartie's children. Ray-Ray. Stallworth. Brady's a twink. The league's response. Its all FUBAR.

I sure am glad that Lawrence Phillips was banished though. What a mess.

How can you bring up all of that and neglect to mention our failure to keep Kuhn? :doh:

:chuckle:

NJarhead
04-21-2010, 10:49 PM
Another thread? Really?

:doh:

Mods, where is the avatar where I shoot myself in the head? I couldn't find that one. Thanks. :hatsoff:

Merchant
04-21-2010, 10:50 PM
We ain't drafting no Tim Tebow lol

SteelerFanFromOregon
04-21-2010, 10:50 PM
the media.

they're terrible.

reporting rumors that aren't true, reporting allegations as fact, and on and on and on.

For whatever reason…LYING…is acceptable if you work for the media.

And they'll just tell you "I'm just doing my job".

I'm convinced beyond any doubt that all they want is ratings (yes, you too ESPN). I'd like to ask many talk show hosts how they really feel about any given issue…off the air. You know the program directors dictate what side of the argument they take just to stir up the audience.

Vincent
04-21-2010, 10:51 PM
How can you bring up all of that and neglect to mention our failure to keep Kuhn? :doh:

:chuckle:

You're right. I should be evaluated.

How close are we to having "evaluation camps"?

Cmdurand21
04-21-2010, 10:51 PM
Some of you people are racist. That is all.

Dennis Dixon <> Kordell Stewart

Vincent
04-21-2010, 10:55 PM
Well, this is certainly a revelation for me. They do this for ratings you say?

steel9guy
04-21-2010, 10:56 PM
Some of you people are racist. That is all.

Dennis Dixon <> Kordell Stewart

It's called freedom of speech and no one on here is racist. That has nothing to do with it. This isn't a board for falsely calling people racists so take it somewhere else. This is a discussion about Ben Roethlisberger who happens to be the best QB of the Steelers since Terry Bradshaw.

CaliStillersFan
04-21-2010, 10:59 PM
There are three warning levels with a fourth offense leading to termination
However, there a categories that can limit all four levels from being reached prior to suspension and/or termination.

I also recall a condition where they get a cut of anything I invent during my tenure here. ....Don't ask. lol

OK, but does any of that have to do with what you do on your own time. I'm sure all that applies to while you are at work. And yes people have been fired for what is said on Facebook and other social networks, and those companies and government agencies have also been sued for it and lost. It's not legal. NO COMPANY ON THE PLANET CAN FIRE YOU FOR WHAT YOU DO ON YOUR TIME.

PS - for those of you that think they can, if any of you need a job in computer networking industry, send me your resume. I love to hire employee's that don't know their rights. LOL

Vincent
04-21-2010, 10:59 PM
II know what is coming out against Ben is horrible and I hate that it's at this point but nothing was ever proved against him.

Do you people think somebody makes this stuff up?

polamalu82
04-21-2010, 11:01 PM
Just saw on NFL network that Jason LaConfora? said we have talked to the Raiders for their 8th overall pick. So you never know.

tube517
04-21-2010, 11:03 PM
I actually agree. I think they would have to have an astronomical trade offer to trade Ben. As one site reported, The Steelers are Mad but not Stupid. The NFLN reporters said it would take ALL the right pieces to fit to trade him. I'm not saying it won't be done because a lot happens in the draft. Also, I'm wondering what's going in inside Ben's inner circle. Is he going to just let this play out, ask for a trade, beg to come back. Who knows. But, I think all the "discussions" of trades are passively being denied with the "We don't discuss trades" blah blah blah.

So, Hilgrove will be saying "Dixon or Leftwich goes back to pass....Wallace... TOUCHDOWN!! " in the first 4 - 6 games.

Maybe the Rooneys are bluffing so they can tell the overreactionary segment of the fan base, "Hey, we tried to trade him, but nobody would take him, so shut the **** up and deal with it!"

Milkman
04-21-2010, 11:04 PM
I'm with you on the trade.
On another note, I wonder what Ben's family is saying to him?
Honestly, his family needs to sit him down and have a serious talk to him to find out if he really does have a problem or if he's just that stoopid.

SteelerFanFromOregon
04-21-2010, 11:04 PM
Schefter says Steelers contacting many teams, Bouchette says they haven't been…so which is it fellas?

BlastFurnace
04-21-2010, 11:04 PM
Some of you people are racist. That is all.

Dennis Dixon <> Kordell Stewart

Yeah...that's it. We're racists because some of us don't think Dennis Dixon is a starting caliber NFL QB.

I'll tell you what, I wouldn't mind having Donovan McNabb this season. Does that make me a racist too?

Milkman
04-21-2010, 11:06 PM
Would be awful if they traded him...BUT..if they could get Nnamdi, Oakland's first pick and a late round pick for Ben and a 5th...do it in a second!

Definitely with you on that one, but it'll probably never happen.

BlastFurnace
04-21-2010, 11:06 PM
The media sucks pretty much everywhere. That shouldn't surprise you.

tube517
04-21-2010, 11:07 PM
I live in the Communistwealth of Virginia which has a policy that your employment can be terminated for ANY REASON. It's an employment-at-will state. It sucks!

If you were accused of something, whether you did it or not, your lawyer will tell you to not open your mouth. Also check your employee handbook, I doubt you find anything that says that you can be terminated for something you do on your own time, and if it does I would quit.

How many Pittsburgher's would lose their jobs for getting a DUI? At least that would be a conviction though, Ben just had accusations tossed at him. Would your boss fire you over accusations? I doubt it, that would be a slam dunk wrongful termination suit.

Sansi
04-21-2010, 11:08 PM
I think the best point Whitlock makes is this:

Think about it. Ben basically hired men to hand him KY Jelly and condoms and stand guard while he had public sex. His instructions should've been this:

"Guys, if I get liquored up tonight and try to bang one of these girls, tackle me, drag me to the car, take me to my hotel, guard the door and make sure no one gets into the room with me while I'm drunk."

The accuser's sorority sisters were smarter and more mature than Ben's "bodyguards."

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ben can still prove he belongs on the classiest franchise (maybe along with the Spurs) in professional sports. He can look to other Qbs as examples. Brees, to me, is the best example. He is an icon of his city, a kind and charitable citizen, and is genuinely PROUD to be on his team and represent his city. He can grow, and demonstrate he understands the respect and dignity of all women on this earth, drunk or sober, DTF or not DTF.

People like myself are truly fed up, and it is a mountain to climb to earn back a big part of this fan base. Can we try not to be cynical about Goodell when he says he truly wants Ben to clean his life up? Roger is being responsible when he wants him to be evaluated and seek therapy. It seems so unfair now - but for a moment be Ben with Goodell as your boss. This is how I would want my boss to treat me. Like an adult - who has sees the potential for me to call myself a good person.

I think we should want that for our team. We've REALLY picked apart this episode to every minute detail but we can look at it broadly too. I want the face of my team, who my children's children will undoubtedly cheer on, which may be my favorite thing on this planet outside of my family and friends, to be someone to look up to. This is the ideal of every sport's fans. We're Steelers fans, we have a higher standard, and we, being the most devout fan base on the face of this earth, deserve to hold our head high when we say the name of our Quarterback.

Perhaps I am way too starry-eyed and naive about this league, but this is how I feel.

steel9guy
04-21-2010, 11:09 PM
Yeah...that's it. We're racists because some of us don't think Dennis Dixon is a starting caliber NFL QB.

I'll tell you what, I wouldn't mind having Donovan McNabb this season. Does that make me a racist too?

I 100% agree thank you for saying that.

Merchant
04-21-2010, 11:11 PM
Schefter says Steelers contacting many teams, Bouchette says they haven't been…so which is it fellas?

I trust Bouchette.

BlastFurnace
04-21-2010, 11:11 PM
I'm with you on the trade.
On another note, I wonder what Ben's family is saying to him?
Honestly, his family needs to sit him down and have a serious talk to him to find out if he really does have a problem or if he's just that stoopid.

If I'm Ben's father, I don't care how big he is, I would have been all over him by now.

jaygorius
04-21-2010, 11:12 PM
There was a time over the past week where I think I was for trading him. But right now I really hope they don't. You just can't give up on your franchise 2 time super bowl winning QB just yet. With the attention of all this, the suspension and the forced counseling he is going to have to face his demons and hopefully will come out better on the other side.

That being said, have the Steelers passed the point of no return? Can you dangle a player out like that and not have him resent the organization? If the Steelers don't trade him, can the relationship be repaired? I still hope that they do not trade him, but has it already gone too far?

Edit: Also, if they do end up trading him then they better get a TON in return. If they can only get a 2nd rounder or two or whatever then don't even bother. You can't just toss away your franchise QB for nothing to make a point.

Shoes
04-21-2010, 11:17 PM
NFL Conduct Violation Suspensions

The 16 players suspended under the personal conduct policy by NFL commissioner Roger Goodell since he took office in 2006:

• Rocky Bernard (assault, 1 game)

• Michael Boley (domestic abuse, 1 game)

• Fred Evans (fight with police, 2 games)

• Chris Henry (various arrests, 8 games)

• Larry Johnson (simple assault, 1 game)

• Tank Johnson (6 counts of possessing an unlicensed gun, 2 month jail term, 8 games)

• Pacman Jones (various arrests, 16 games, 6 games)

• Marshawn Lynch (weapons violation, 3 games)

• Ricky Manning (felony assault, 1 game)

• Brandon Marshall (various, including assaulting girlfriend, 1 game)

• Bryant McKinnie (street fight, 4 games)

• Rob Reynolds (domestic disturbance, 16 games)

• Ben Roethlisberger (misconduct-no charges/arrests, 6 games)

• Donte' Stallworth (DUI-vehicular homicide, 16 games)

• Fabian Washington (domestic violence, 1 game)

• Michael Vick (federal dogfighting charges, plea agreement, 2 games)

-- Associated Press


I find it odd that people (not necessarily on here) want to say that Vick paid his price by going to jail...well, that is the price he paid for his crimes -- that has nothing to do with the NFL's policy, at least according to Goodell! Yet he only had a 2-game suspension to serve!

How can anyone not look at Roethlisberger's 6 games for "misconduct-no charges/arrests" as overkill?

Doesn't matter it's done. Draft is tomorrow, time to move on. Hopefully Ben will be back on game 5.

KitCar
04-21-2010, 11:26 PM
I say go ahead and make it a year.

We are the Steelers.


Drama on the falcons or ratbirds is just another day at the office/jail.

Drama for the Steelers is unacceptable.

bozz723
04-21-2010, 11:32 PM
No, it's asinine. Completely ridiculous.

Preacher
04-21-2010, 11:34 PM
i know McHugh filled in well at FB and preferred him over anyone we've had since Kreider.. i have my doubts that he can fill in full time and assume a Kreider-Bus like role of constant blocking and pounding. being a cross between a 3rd TE and FB is nice because it saves us a roster spot and he is a good blocker when called upon. i just don't think he can handle being a full back full-time. he's 6-5.. that's a lot of stress on the back for a guy trying to get low on defenders and block at the non-stop work rate of a fullback. nobody knows what we have in Summers.. i am not even going to take into account what he did when healthy last season because he had so little playing time.

the oline will only become worse because teams will stack the box against whatever mediocre QB we put back there. they are not haulers like we had in 04-05.. they will be exposed under that kind of pressure up front.

i don't like our receiving core after the Holmes trade and i surely wouldn't like it if Ben were gone. Ward is as reliable as they come when healthy, but we can't count on that at this point in his career. injuries and the lingering pain will only increase until he retires because of his physical play. Wallace is in his second year, and while i think he will be good for us for years to come.. we still can't say 100% for certain after he spent most of the time last season exposing nickel and dime corners. after that we have ARE, who was at one time my favorite Steeler, but his play slipped while in Washington. maybe the Redskins weren't a good fit for him, but he wasn't a stud receiver here either. who knows what Sweed will do and whoever else we decide to draft.

Miller will never again touch the stats he put up over the past couple seasons because all he will turn in to an extra tackle who once in a while will remind us of what a play-maker he is capable of being.

I completely agree with you on McHugh. Matter of fact, I agree with you to the point that I think it somewhat negates your argument on Miller. I do agree he'll never have those stats again (unless we pick up another franchise QB). However, With McHugh in, it doesn't allow teams to stack the box. Follow me.

First, Lefty, while not being a franchise QB, is a decent QB. He has a decent QB rating (better than any other QB but Ben that put on a Steelers jersey since-and including Bradshaw. He also is in the same category with completions).

Second, With Mchugh in, he can line up as a TE, in a single back formation. That gives the offense the opportunity to run out of the actual set (or pass, with two TE's helping), or two pull Mchugh back and run the ball with a lead FB. Don't forget, the passing game is still a threat with a decent QB that has a good deep ball.... to a VERY fast receiver. Which means, pull 9 men in the box, and get burned deep over the middle.

Third, the maulers of 04 and 05 included backups drafted and prepped for that very role, including Kemo, Essex, and Colon, and one Max Starks, who, if memory serves, no one complained about when the Steelers were a run team. So in short, you have a line that was actually the next generation built for the run by the run heavy coaching tandem of Cowher and Russ Grimm. Last year, in the Ravens game when the team dedicated itself to the run (first game), the line played absolutely fine. In all honesty, it has taken them a couple years to gel with all the injuries and shakeups. But they have come along quite well. Half the sacks last year was Ben trying to make plays (and I am fine with Ben doing that to).

Conclusion- There is no way the offense would be as dynamic as it is today. There is no way we would walk up and down the field 2 and 3 times in a quarter like we did last year. However, we would have a team that could put a solid 17-21 points a game on the board. If our defense can come around, that is enough to win quite a few games.

No comebacks. Not enough to go deep in the playoffs. But enough to still be a playoff team next year and the year after.

And that should give the FO enough time to go out and find a QB, that could take us deep into the playoffs.

PhantomJB93
04-21-2010, 11:34 PM
Im not exactly "for" trading for him but Im not exactly "against" it either...it all depends what the offers are. I say dont trade him unless a REALLY good offer comes along, by this I mean one that guarantees us Bradford, on that gives us several early picks, or a possible Raiders trade I hear rumored that involved Nnamdi Asomugha. Don't just try to shop him around for the sake of getting rid of him as we did with Santonio, see what we can get for him and if something comes along that gives us amazing value I say pull the trigger.

steelerjim58
04-21-2010, 11:34 PM
You're kidding. Right?

No I am not. Enlighten me. Other than the suspension by the dictator, how has the team and especially the city been hurt?

JSH6487
04-21-2010, 11:37 PM
Dennis Dixon couldn't lace up Kordell Stewart's boots. That's how much Dixon sucks at QB...he's almost as big as joke as the fans on here who want him to start.

Shoes
04-21-2010, 11:39 PM
Dennis Dixon couldn't lace up Kordell Stewart's boots. That's how much Dixon sucks at QB...he's almost as big as joke as the fans on here who want him to start.

I see your back at it..............

PhantomJB93
04-21-2010, 11:41 PM
Assuming we trade Ben and Bradford is already gone, I think we should go highly consider getting Jimmy Clausen AND Golden Tate. Getting just one of those guys would benefit our team but imagine getting two guys with amazing chemistry like that already built up, they could be lighting it up in no time.

SteelerFanFromOregon
04-21-2010, 11:44 PM
The media sucks pretty much everywhere. That shouldn't surprise you.
and apparently that's still acceptable. Pretty hard to enforce standards on them I guess.

KeiselPower99
04-21-2010, 11:49 PM
Schefter says Steelers contacting many teams, Bouchette says they haven't been…so which is it fellas?

I trust Bouchette. Scheffter knows his stuff but things can be turned so many ways.

Preacher
04-21-2010, 11:50 PM
Dennis Dixon couldn't lace up Kordell Stewart's boots. That's how much Dixon sucks at QB...he's almost as big as joke as the fans on here who want him to start.

http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i267/benrus/chip_on_her_shoulder.jpg

Preacher
04-21-2010, 11:51 PM
Um.. why is this in the Steelers Forum?

austinfrench76
04-21-2010, 11:52 PM
Slippery slope, guys never been arrested let alone charged with a crime. Unless you count stupidity.

mesaSteeler
04-21-2010, 11:56 PM
Steelers sting Big Ben harder than NFL
http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news;_ylt=Ai8s2gaerOoVLUi.J2RkKw3xxLsF?slug=dw-roethlisberger042110&print=1
By Dan Wetzel, Yahoo! Sports 4 hours, 32 minutes ago

NEW YORK – The most damning character assassination of Ben Roethlisberger(notes) in the wake of sexual assault allegations against him, an incident that earned him a four to six game NFL suspension Wednesday, didn’t come in that salacious 527-page Georgia police report.

It’s in word that the Pittsburgh Steelers are shopping their 28-year-old, two-time Super Bowl champion quarterback, seeking a top-10 pick in return.
Steelers quarterback Ben Roethlisberger was suspended Wednesday for violating the NFL's personal conduct policy.

If the Steelers believed in Big Ben and his ability to change his personal life, they’d take his penalty and move on. It’d be simple for Roethlisberger to avoid the situation that got him in trouble – stay out of college bar bathrooms with drunken coeds.

On the surface this isn’t a drug or alcohol problem. This isn’t a situation where lousy childhood friends are dragging him down. The straight and narrow doesn’t require a major life change. Just interact with women like a man should. Namely, grow up. It ought to be simple.

The Steelers obviously don’t think it’s such a sure thing. They’re so concerned Roethlisberger isn’t going to suddenly settle down with a nice girl and live a quiet life that they are willing to cut bait with a franchise quarterback – the most prized possession in the NFL.

“It really comes down to how well you know the individual player,” Mark Cuban, owner of the Dallas Mavericks and a Pittsburgh native, told ESPN. “You have to know whether the player is willing to change.

“If he’s not willing to right the ship, you have to get rid of him.”

Cuban went out of his way to say he doesn’t know Roethlisberger or the details of the situation. He does know what it’s like to own a team and discipline players.

If Roethlisberger was essentially a good guy who engaged in some bad behavior one night, then you draw the line in the sand and move on. This is how bosses and parents and school principals discipline every single day. It’s not like Roethlisberger didn’t take precautions against getting into trouble that night in Milledgeville, Ga. He had a designated driver and security team in tow. He got pictures of him drinking erased.

Those are actually mature decisions.

The Steelers don’t appear to think it matters. They aren’t convinced this won’t happen again.

No team would ever trade a talent like Roethlisberger if they thought he could change. Yes, the Rooney family that owns the franchise takes its place in the Pittsburgh culture seriously. And yes, it does operate at a higher morality level than some other teams. Still, this is a QB.

They didn’t dump Roethlisberger when he was dumb enough to ride, and wreck, his motorcycle without a helmet. They didn’t dump him when a woman in Reno, Nev., alleged a sexual assault case of her own. They didn’t dump wide receiver Santonio Holmes(notes) – who caught Ben’s final-second touchdown pass in the Super Bowl two seasons ago – the first time he had an off-field incident (they have since). The Steelers aren’t rigid iron-fisted disciplinarians.

Rumor has it that Pittsburgh is interested in trading Roethlisberger for a top-10 pick.
(Gene Puskar/AP Photo file)

The Steelers are out of patience with Roethlisberger, convinced that another bit of trouble is inevitable.

Even if they could get Sam Bradford, the top quarterback in the draft who may go to St. Louis with the No. 1 pick, (and I doubt they can) this would be a lopsided trade. Bradford may be great. May. He’s also an unproven rookie who missed most of his junior season at Oklahoma with a shoulder injury. He isn’t signed and, due to the peculiar ways of NFL contracts, will be the highest-paid player on his team wherever he goes.

Roethlisberger is a proven commodity, tough, smart (on the field) and a proven winner in clutch moments. He’s one of the five best quarterbacks in the league. By the time he’s done, he might win four Super Bowls. He’s locked up to a long-term deal, a huge thing for NFL front offices.

The Steelers are apparently willing to deal Roethlisberger anyway.

“[It’s important] that Ben Roethlisberger understands his responsibility to the league, the game, to his teammates to conduct himself in a positive way,” NFL commissioner Roger Goodell said Wednesday at a league youth function at Central Park. “But forget about him as an NFL player; this is about an individual and someone who has to lead a productive life. He has to change the way he’s doing things.”

Can he?

“We’ll find out,” Goodell said. “I think we have a pretty good track record making sure people understand what is required of them … But I’ve always said actions speak louder than words. It’s about actions now, it’s not about words.”

That’s true of the Steelers too. And their actions are saying they have doubts this is the last we hear of Ben Roethlisberger getting in trouble, that this is a bad dude, not a good guy, who got jammed up one night in Georgia.

Vincent
04-21-2010, 11:57 PM
Dennis Dixon couldn't lace up Kordell Stewart's boots. That's how much Dixon sucks at QB...he's almost as big as joke as the fans on here who want him to start.

And you base that on what? His college career? Or his one start against the rats in Baltimore on national TV with a day's notice that he took into OT?

Psyychoward86
04-21-2010, 11:57 PM
Well, this is certainly a revelation for me. They do this for ratings you say?

Um, yeah because that's all they care about?



This is the only Big Ben related topic i've seen in the last month that was actually not utterly stupid. Schefter and La Canfora are spilling crap out of their mouths that nobody, NOBODY has even picked up on at all. Heck, as said before, Bouchette is saying the exact opposite of what they are with all these trade and contact rumors. I'll trust the locals before i trust outside sources.

They dont ever even tell us where that get their information. It's always some bullshit like "according to someone close to the source." Why dont these numbnuts grow a pair and tell us who exactly these sources are? Oh yeah that's right, cuz ur making shit up :coffee:

Shea
04-21-2010, 11:58 PM
Schefter says Steelers contacting many teams, Bouchette says they haven't been…so which is it fellas?

I saw the Bouchette interview and I'm going with what he says. Nobody has a better understanding or knowledge of what's going on with the Steelers.

Um.. why is this in the Steelers Forum?

Perhaps, to break up the streak of 50 consecutive Ben threads?

mesaSteeler
04-22-2010, 12:02 AM
Starkey: Almighty Goodell sets dangerous precedent
http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/sports/steelers/s_677602.html#
By Joe Starkey
PITTSBURGH TRIBUNE-REVIEW
Thursday, April 22, 2010

You can't spell Goodell without "God," and that is apparently who the NFL's commissioner is trying to be, now that he has severely punished a player who has never been arrested or charged with a crime.

From this point forward, Roger Goodell — let's call him God-ell — will be the one to decide if an accuser's complaints have merit.

God-ell help us.

The player in question, of course, is Steelers quarterback Ben Roethlisberger, who has been sacked with a six-game suspension — minimum four games — in the wake of an unproven rape accusation in Milledgeville, Ga.

I'm not defending Roethlisberger. I understand why a faction of the fan base is disgusted and wants him out. Part of me believes something very bad happened that night in Milledgeville, and I wonder if it's a pattern of behavior. I also wonder if more trouble lays ahead. I would defend the Steelers if they unloaded him.

But that kind of conjecture doesn't count in a court of law and shouldn't in the kingdom of God-ell, either.

You want to suspend Roethlisberger a game or two for apparently purchasing alcohol for minors? Fine. Tack on some counseling. A six-game penalty is ridiculously excessive.

It is the equivalent of a 60-game suspension in baseball. It also makes you wonder if the great and powerful Rog was trying to appease those eager to see if he had the guts to go after a star white quarterback.

God-ell gave 'em more than they bargained for but put himself in a precarious position moving forward. Forget about arrests and charges. Mere accusations are now fair game.

God-ell has suspended 16 players under the personal conduct policy, which was enacted with the players' blessing three years ago this month. They gave him the power. In this case, he abused it. Roethlisberger is the first player suspended under the policy who has never been arrested or charged with a crime.

Talk about a can of worms. This is more like a can of snakes.

Will accusations of, say, marital infidelity against players, coaches or team executives now be deemed suspendible? How about players or team officials who frequent strip clubs or use prostitutes, or merely are accused of it?

Where will all that fall on God-ell's morality meter?

It'll be interesting to see what happens to Indianapolis Colts defensive tackle Eric Foster, who is being sued by a hotel employee who claims he groped her in his hotel room. Though Foster's no star, he should be subjected to the same scrutiny as Roethlisberger within NFL offices.

It's a shame, really, that God-ell has set a new precedent, because the personal conduct policy has been a raging success. That's the only way to view it if you read the numbers from the San Diego Union-Tribune's exhaustive study.

In tracking every arrest and major citation involving NFL players over the past four years, the newspaper concluded that the total has been reduced from 79 the year before the policy was enacted to 44 this past year.

Impressive stuff, but as you finish the story, you see a list of incidents from the past year and wonder why players such as Denver Broncos tight end Richard Quinn have escaped the wrath of God-ell.

In September, Quinn was arrested for allegedly grabbing his girlfriend, shaking her to the ground and taking her phone away when she tried to dial 911. (Does this guy consider James Harrison a role model?)

Quinn was cleared of charges. The NFL has not punished him.

God-ell knows, Big Ben wasn't so lucky.

Joe Starkey can be reached at jraystarkey@gmail.com or .

Vincent
04-22-2010, 12:03 AM
Just interact with women like a man should.

Are we still allowed to say that?

JSH6487
04-22-2010, 12:04 AM
And you base that on what? His college career? Or his one start against the rats in Baltimore on national TV with a day's notice that he took into OT?

I've seen the kid play multiple times in college and all throughout the preseason. He's no different than any of the other "athlete" type quarterbacks who eventually have to make the switch to WR because they flat out aren't accurate enough. I base it on the TONS of history and examples that I could give you to support that those types of QBs do not make it in the league. And it's not a race thing...there's plenty examples of white players that fit that description as well.

mesaSteeler
04-22-2010, 12:06 AM
Harris: Steelers fed Ben's sense of entitlement
http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/sports/steelers/print_677603.html
By John Harris
PITTSBURGH TRIBUNE-REVIEW
Thursday, April 22, 2010

No team owners more entrusted a player with the keys to their franchise than the Rooneys did with Ben Roethlisberger — and it resulted in a sense of entitlement for the team's $102 million quarterback.

Comments by Steelers president Art Rooney II before Roethlisberger received a conditional six-game suspension Wednesday indicated the team placed so much faith in Roethlisberger's character that Rooney didn't have a serious discussion with him after the first allegation of sexual assault in Nevada. But Roethlisberger betrayed his team's trust after a second allegation of sexual assault surfaced in Georgia, complete with sordid details in a police report that have been bandied about from coast to coast.

Former Steelers tackle Marvel Smith described Roethlisberger's relationship with the team under coach Mike Tomlin as one in which the quarterback had complete freedom during games and wasn't reprimanded for mistakes. According to Smith, who was with the team from 2000 to 2008, Roethlisberger could do no wrong when Tomlin replaced Bill Cowher before the 2007 season.

"I saw the transition from when Ben ran the plays he was told and when he started talking about plays he didn't want to run," Smith told the Tribune-Review in a phone interview.

When asked about the change in offensive coordinators, from Ken Whisenhunt to Bruce Arians, Roethlisberger responded, "It will be nice to know Bruce isn't going to handcuff us." Roethlisberger later apologized to Whisenhunt.

In 2009, Roethlisberger became the first Steelers quarterback to throw for 4,000 yards in a season.

"I remember me and Ben talking about the differences between the coaching staffs — how he wasn't allowed to do certain things with the other coaching staff that he was allowed to do now," Smith said. "He kind of felt like he was treated as a rookie even in his second and third year in the league."

Smith painted a picture of Tomlin propping up Roethlisberger at the expense of his teammates while giving players the impression that Roethlisberger was receiving preferential treatment.

"We all have bad games here and there, but I remember when Ben would have a bad game that clearly affected the outcome and the coaches wouldn't say nothing to him directly or even address the fact he might have had three or four (interceptions) that game," Smith said.

"They would address the other bad (stuff) that happened but not address the glaring issue of throwing a pick in a drive. ... We'd talk about turnovers, and (coaches) said we had this amount of turnovers, but they don't address it like: 'Have better ball security, (or) read the safety instead of throwing it straight to him when he's double-covered.'

"When you do that in front of the whole team, that sends a message he's on a different level. It creates a division within the team. You can't sit there in front of the whole team and not say something to one player that clearly had a bigger impact than anybody else on that game and not even address it."

Roethlisberger was treated more like the rest of his teammates during his first three NFL seasons, said Smith, a big fan of Cowher.

"It wasn't like that with Coach Cowher and Whisenhunt," Smith said. "We addressed all the issues a number of times throughout the season.

"Ben wasn't the one that was making us win. It was a team effort. We wouldn't have made it to (Super Bowl XLIII) if it wasn't for the defense. The defense won so many games for us that year. We put the defense in so many bad situations. The offense made that last play that everybody remembers, but the defense got us there.

"The defense always wanted us to run the ball because they know it kept them off the field. I'm sure the last two years I was there, when they went through the transition of passing the ball more, the defense didn't like that by any means."

John Harris can be reached at jharris@tribweb.com or 412-481-5432.

JSH6487
04-22-2010, 12:07 AM
And you've yet to respond Vincent to the multiple times I've called you out for being a HUGE hypocrite for bad mouthing Ben with a James Harrison banner as your sig. Again, an actual arrest for slapping around his gf is not as big as deal as only being accused of sexual assault like Ben was? Please enlighten me.

steelerdude15
04-22-2010, 12:07 AM
Another reason why the American media sucks.

Vincent
04-22-2010, 12:09 AM
How's that extension going Coach?

steelerdude15
04-22-2010, 12:10 AM
I've read this before and it's great... people are still too stupid though to realize the truth.

fansince'76
04-22-2010, 12:13 AM
So I guess, by extension, the motorcycle wreck was Tomlin's fault too - right, Marvel?

tube517
04-22-2010, 12:15 AM
As much as it sucks, Noll did the same thing with Bradshaw. That is why when Bradshaw blasted Noll after he retired, the other players were like WTF?

tony hipchest
04-22-2010, 12:16 AM
m. smith did an interview on sirius last week. he said if there wasnt a suspension of ben, it could possibly divide the locker room.

there was a definite belief that he fell under a different set of rules.

he doesnt have an agenda and isnt out to burn ben. he was just telling it as it is/was.

Shea
04-22-2010, 12:17 AM
Interesting how Cowher and Whiz treated him like any other player on the team and Ben turned out to treat them both like shit.

Just sayin .....

steelerdude15
04-22-2010, 12:19 AM
Maybe I should run the team... :chuckle:

Merchant
04-22-2010, 12:20 AM
Good article. I still don't see why Eric Foster got off so easily. It actually sounded like he did something.

VegasStlrFan
04-22-2010, 12:21 AM
It's not blind faith for Ben. Its the FACT the he has not been convicted of anything!!! Why is that so hard to understand? If you think the NFL was justified in their actions, you should move to China where behavior like that is acceptable. My blind faith is in the supposed freedoms we have in this country. I believe in things like "INNOCENT UNTIL PROVEN GUILTY", you know the tenets of our constitution that make us a "free people".

It's a sad day when morality means more to people than the rule of law. We're so close to becoming the next pre-WW2 Germany it's pathetic.

This is an Employee/Employer issue, nothing to due with the constitutional freedom issue you speak of. Its simple, Ben got $102 million contract to play football and adhere to the clauses in his contract. One of which has to do with personal conduct or "morality". He violated their agreement, and now hes recieving punishment. He admitted he would accept whatever ruling the NFL rendered. If this is remotely questionable, you can bet the players union will be all over it. My bet is they don't touch it with a10' pole.

Vincent
04-22-2010, 12:21 AM
You are the biggest hypocrite on this board. I've seen you bash Ben in multiple posts, with a frigging James Harrison banner as your sig. Are you f'n serious??? The same James Harrison who has been arrested for slapping around the mother of his child. Harrison actually admitted to doing this...but hey I guess that's not as bad as only being accused right? Give me a f'n break.

You're right. I really should follow the moral instruction your sig gives me.

Shoes
04-22-2010, 12:27 AM
You're right. I really should follow the moral instruction your sig gives me.

:rofl::rofl:

MACH1
04-22-2010, 12:29 AM
Brister - AWESOME!
Malone - Worst Steelers QB in history!
Stewart - Pro Bowler...would've been Hall of Fame worthy had he stayed SLASH!
Woodley - Awful!
Graham -irrelevant...shouldn't be on the list.
ODonnell - Super Bowl QB!
Stoudt/Tomzcak - meh...
Maddox - Touchdown Tommy...loved the ride!

Could probably find at least 18-20 teams with a list far, far worse than that...

Jim Miller????


Oh and NO

JCPsteelers
04-22-2010, 12:30 AM
Dennis Dixon couldn't lace up Kordell Stewart's boots. That's how much Dixon sucks at QB...he's almost as big as joke as the fans on here who want him to start.

So true... The guy was 12 for 26 against the Ravens, threw one good pass to Holmes because Foxworth can't catch a cold and threw an interception in OT to lose the game..

I don't get the excitement about the guy, but I guess everyone loves the backup QB..


Big Ben could convert to being a left-handed QB and throw a better pass than Dixon. .


Dixon is what he is, a really mediocre QB.. Saying he is young, I saw his Oregon games, he might put on weight, blah,blah,blah ain't going to change that fact..

Cmdurand21
04-22-2010, 12:40 AM
Yeah...that's it. We're racists because some of us don't think Dennis Dixon is a starting caliber NFL QB.

I'll tell you what, I wouldn't mind having Donovan McNabb this season. Does that make me a racist too?

Dennis Dixon couldn't lace up Kordell Stewart's boots. That's how much Dixon sucks at QB...he's almost as big as joke as the fans on here who want him to start.

You base this on what? Your extensive knowledge of Dennis Dixon after 1 game in the pros, with 1 day notice, against a good D, Away, Prime time. I said some of you are racist, if you think that he's not a NFL caliber QB, that fine. But, it is racist to generalized him because he's black. And, like it or not, there are some people on this board who don't like Dixon because of Kordell Stewart failed and his skin color.

Here are stats for you.
Dixon at Ravens: 12/26, 145 YDS, 2 TDs, 1 INT
Ben vs Ravens: 15/31 156 yards 1 td 2 Turnovers
Ben at Ravens: 21/41 214 yards 0 td 3 Turnovers
Weird huh?

I'm not saying Dennis Dixon is the next Warren Moon. I'm not saying he's better the Ben. All I'm saying is... You people are talking out of your ass and don't know shit. I support the Rooney's decision because, guess what, they have put together 6 super bowl teams, not you. This board is fun for suggestions and fun banter. Not for slandering the franchise or it's employees for decisions that haven't even been made yet. Let's see what happens that then we can discuss how we feel about it.

edit: again I am not saying YOU are slandering the franchise/employees just some others.

zulater
04-22-2010, 12:42 AM
http://forums.steelersfever.com/showthread.php?t=51190

5th post down.

I hate to put another Ben topic up, but...

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

this needs to be put up for those of you who keep ranting he's a rapist without reading the facts. I thought this was a great article and should be shared.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"The Case Against Ben Roethlisberger's Accuser" by PalmerSucks, Esquire

A "'Sucks Says" Special Report



Well they're out, some 500 pages worth of court documents on "Roethlisbergate" and I've just got done reading a good part of the transcripts. What hasn't helped Ben's case is that the bulk of the alleged victim's and her friend's statements appear first -- all the easier for the media to pick up and feast on. Upon reading, though, I've found that some of these stories – in particular the victim’s and her friend’s -- have more holes than a barn full of Swiss Cheese.

For example, there’s this sad-sounding little song:

Ms. Biancofiore, the accuser's friend, says the woman "was dragged by a bodyguard to the back room in Capital.” http://www.scrippsnews.com/content/w...ragged-accusor

Elsewhere, though, Ms. Biancofiore sings a slightly different tune:

Student Nicole Biancofiore told Milledgeville officers that Barravecchio "placed his hand" on the young accuser's "shoulder and (applied) a little bit of pressure to guide her" to the staff restroom. http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pitt...rce=rss&feed=3

Well, which is it, Ms. Biancofiore? Was it a case of your friend practically being kidnapped by Ben's goons, or was it, as you suggest later, just a poor drunk girl being "guided" to the bathroom?

Read on and you'll find all kinds of inconsistencies. I've read page after page of them, and based on the large amount of court testimony and commentary out there now, have been able to reconstruct a little "trial" based on the information available. All quotes are attributed to actual sources as linked. And now, without further delay:

I call to the stand Mr. Roethlisberger's accuser, whom out of respect to anonymity granted the alleged victims of sexual assault, shall be referred to as "Miss X."

Miss X, let us establish your initial contact and statement with the police on the night of March 4, 2010:

When she first approached a police officer outside the nightclub immediately after the incident, Mr. Bright said, "The police officer asked 'Did he rape you?' And her response was 'No.' Then he asked, 'Did you have sex?' And she said, 'Well, I'm not sure.' http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/10103/1049925-66.stm

So Miss X, not only do you initially deny that Mr. Roethlisberger sexually assaulted you -- you don't even claim you two even had sexual contact to begin with. A short time later, down at the police station, you change your story, and claim you did in fact have sex with Mr. Roethlisberger, and that he in fact forced himself upon you. Thank you, Miss X, that will be all.

To repeat, ladies and gentlemen of the jury, Miss X at first wonders whether she or Mr. Roethlisberger had sexual relations at all, let alone that she was "raped" -- and perhaps with good reason. I call to the stand Dr. Cyril Wecht, well-known forensic expert:

Forensic pathologist Dr. Cyril H. Wecht, however, said he was "puzzled" that authorities knew the DNA came from a human male but could not profile the sample and compare it to genetic material from Mr. Roethlisberger. "You don't need a lot of material," Dr. Wecht said. "If you have enough to identify material and have enough to identify it as male and you're not able to do a DNA profile -- I'm puzzled. I really am puzzled." http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/10103/1049925-66.stm

Well then, if a renowned expert such as Dr. Wecht finds this whole matter a bit hard to figure – shouldn’t we take note?

I call to the stand another expert on the subject:

A scientist at Orchid Cellmark Inc., a company that does genetic testing, agreed with Dr. Wecht. "If a lab is good with their technology, even from very small amounts of DNA, they can get a decent result," said Dr. Rick W. Staub, Orchid Cellmark's forensics laboratory director, scientific operations. http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/10103/1049925-66.stm

So now, we have established not one, but two experts who find the lack of DNA evidence available – given the victim’s claim of sexual assault – rather odd.

For the record, it should now be noted, the accuser has identified the type of sexual contact to have occurred -- "unprotected sex." http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive...isberger1.html

Well no wonder you are "puzzled," Dr. Wecht -- for if Miss X and Mr. Roethlisberger did have sexual intercourse -- unprotected let's remember -- would not then the alleged victim be a veritable fountain of DNA? And yet, the doctors who examined her after the alleged attack could not find the smallest speck of genetic material from which to base a sample match. How odd - how very, very odd. One would think after contact so alleged a woman would be -- pardon my graphic nature here -- flowing with DNA, a veritable Niagara Falls of the stuff. And yet she turns up bone dry, a Gobi Desert. How on God's green earth is this even possible?

And to make matters clear, Dr. Wecht, you come out and specify the only types of sexual contact that could possibly not leave DNA residue:

Dr. Wecht pointed out that some kinds of sexual assault -- such as a "superficial altercation" -- and some types of sexual contact -- such as oral sex -- could leave no biological calling cards. http://postgazette.com/pg/10083/1045168-66.stm

Did you get that? That's superficial contact, or perhaps oral contact -- as opposed to the full-on intercourse alleged by the victim. And to put things in perspective, Doctor, just what size of specimen would be needed to initiate a DNA test?

...a nanogram of DNA, which is a billionth of a gram. A raisin weighs about a gram, so if you could cut a raisin into a billion pieces, we need one of those. So this particular result was far less than even a nanogram. http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/10108/1051441-66.stm

Again, Miss X tells us in no uncertain terms that she and Mr. Roethlisberger had unprotected sexual intercourse -- the home-run, all-the-way kind -- certainly not any sort of "superficial altercation" to which Dr. Wecht refers. And yet -- the medical examiners couldn't even obtain a "nanogram" of material needed. How strange -- how very, very strange.

Much has been made of the alleged victim's injuries, particularly bleeding, which the anti-Roethlisberger crowd has pointed to as "sure evidence" of some kind of forced sex. In fact, far from incriminating Mr. Roethlisberger, it may just achieve the opposite.

I call to the stand DA Bright himself, to shed some light on the matter:

Mr. Bright said that after speaking with police, the woman was taken to Oconee Regional Medical Center in Milledgeville, where she was examined by an emergency room doctor and two nurses. Their medical evaluation of her reported superficial laceration, bruising and slight bleeding in the genital area, but the doctor could not say whether the injuries were from any kind of trauma or sexual assault. http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/10103/1049925-66.stm

So you see, not even the medical examiners could find evidence of forced contact. Again, that's rather strange, don’t you think, given the alleged victim’s claims?

Now then, let's look at the alleged victim's charge in light of two other facts known that night. First, as witnesses have informed us, Mr. Roethlisberger was quite careful not to be photographed with any sort of alcoholic beverage in his hand. Secondly, we know he was conscious of trouble he might get into with young women.

"At The Brick restaurant, Roethlisberger was asked whether he wanted to take the party back to the accuser's sorority house, but he said, "Hell no. That's a lawsuit waiting to happen," student Katie Cromie told investigators." http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pitt...rce=rss&feed=3

So it's clear Mr. Roethlisberger did in fact have the avoiding of trouble on his mind -- so much so that the mere idea of going near a sorority house scared him. And yet Miss X, you wish us to believe that he'd think nothing of whipping out his genitals in a nightclub -- as you claim -- and sexually assaulting you on a toilet seat. Does this not seem rather inconsistent with his previously noted attitude?

You are expecting us to believe, Miss X, that Mr. Roethlisberger, who've we've established as being aware of the trouble he could get into with women -- conscious of the consequences of his actions as a high-profile professional athlete -- would risk his entire career and fortune by having forced and unprotected sex with a stranger in the bathroom of a nightclub? A man afraid of "lawsuits" would turn around and care nothing about, say, an unwanted pregnancy? Really, truly and seriously?

You are expecting us to believe, Miss X, that a man some six-feet-five, two hundred fifty pounds had sex with you -- on a toilet seat -- in a closet of a bathroom some 5-feet wide? I find it hard to believe the both of you could fit in the thing to begin with -- well, whatever.

I submit to you, ladies and gentlemen of the jury, that Miss X's first statement to police, on the night of March 4th was in fact the truthful one: that not only did Ben Roethlisberger not rape her, but in fact, most likely never even had sexual intercourse with her, consensual or otherwise. Whatever contact between the two may have occurred, didn’t quite go down the way she said. And thus her claim, and the claims of all her friends, are nothing but fabrications and embellishments, the inconsistencies of which bear out this fact.

Ladies and gentlemen of the jury -- the defense rests.

ETL
04-22-2010, 12:43 AM
That's one expensive blow j o b.

JSH6487
04-22-2010, 12:44 AM
Dennis Dixon = Mike McMahon ....but yeah, I'm racist right. No one generalized him because of his race, only you did. We generalized him because of the type of style QB he is, which just flat out does not translate into the NFL and there's a ton of history to prove it. But hell, we're all just a bunch of racists right.

Cmdurand21
04-22-2010, 12:50 AM
Dennis Dixon = Mike McMahon ....but yeah, I'm racist right. No one generalized him because of his race, only you did. We generalized him because of the type of style QB he is, which just flat out does not translate into the NFL and there's a ton of history to prove it. But hell, we're all just a bunch of racists right.

Did you even read my post? Why don't you tell me what kind of QB Dixon is, and lets go from there.

Shea
04-22-2010, 12:50 AM
It ain't gonna happen but I'd vote yes.

spyboots
04-22-2010, 12:55 AM
Maybe it's Ben who wants out? He said he was tired of getting booed at that Raven's game. Can you imagine what it'll be like now -- including fans of the opposting tewam. But then, he may get that anywhere he goes. He grew up a fan of Elway as a QB and the 49ers as a team; maybe he wants to go to San Fran for all we know. I wonder how he'll do under all this pressure.

I hope they don't trade him, but what if others come forward now (whether true or untrue)? Maybe that's what the Rooneys are thinking. And another incident would be a YEAR's suspension.

The Rooneys are also in business; this isn't a hobby for them. They have an investment in Ben. Better to get what they can now? Either way, they can be screwed. I have to trust they'll make the right decision.

I think if they get a really great offer tomorrow, they'll trade him during the draft. I don't think they'll take peanuts like they did for Santonio.

ricardisimo
04-22-2010, 12:58 AM
I live in the Communistwealth of Virginia which has a policy that your employment can be terminated for ANY REASON. It's an employment-at-will state. It sucks!

Not so much "employment-at-will" as "right-to-work" state, and not so much the communists as the Right-wing's hatred of labor unions. To your point, however, communists hate labor unions almost as much as the capitalists do, so perhaps the Communist Workers' Party of Virginia was responsible for that particular law.

Either way, it just translates to a "right-not-to-have-a-union-represent-you" state.

JCPsteelers
04-22-2010, 12:59 AM
Did you even read my post? Why don't you tell me what kind of QB Dixon is, and lets go from there.

A mediocre QB that isn't very accurate with limited upside..


But I hear he's a possible NFL Preseason ALL-PRO QB.:sofunny:

JSH6487
04-22-2010, 01:05 AM
You're right. I really should follow the moral instruction your sig gives me.

Has nothing to do with anything...but way to not answer my question hypocrite.

I think Ben is innocent, therefore my sig is just a joke. There is no doubt Harrison was NOT innocent. He admitted that he slapped around the mother of his child, but you act like that is no big deal when you go on your rants trash talking Ben for accusations with a James Harrison banner as your sig.

Come on hypocrite...respond to this without jumping around it.

JCPsteelers
04-22-2010, 01:05 AM
Whitlock is a very good writer..

I don't agree with a suspension, but I can see where he is coming from..

zulater
04-22-2010, 01:07 AM
I agree. I would sue if I were Ben. He needs to clear his name in this matter and the only way to do that is to seek an injunction.

I have a lot of questions regarding this situation and it doesn't pass the smell test.

Here are the questions I have

1.Why was she hanging around his entourage if he was hitting on her all night and saying "bad things" to her?
2. Why would someone who wasn't looking to hook up wear a DTF button to a bar ?
3. If she didn't consent to it, how did the pants come off? Is she claiming Ben ripped her pants off and forced himself on her? Or did she get naked, get on top of him, and maybe so no after they started having sex?
4, How can you trust the testimony of someone that was that intoxicated? And don't give me the BS about how Ben was a predator-Both of them were drunk and had clouded decision making ability. This wasn't a situation where a sober guy was taking advantage of a drunk girl. Both of them are adults and are responsible for their actions.

Regardless, it is not fair. Ben was never convicted and we still d

I'm more convinced by the day that Ben is the victim of a sorority sister conspiracy. Ben might be a prick, but he isn't a rapist and didn't do anything more than have a consentual grope or maybe go a little beyond. Ben told the truth imo, there was no intercourse. As Dr Wecht alluded to, it's ridiculous to claim they had "male" DNA from a rape kit proccessed within hours of an alleged assualt yet they couldn't get enough of a profile to determine weather it could have been Ben's? Bullshit! And oh yeah the GBI report says the accuser alleged unprotected sex, so that that donkey aint flying either. :mad:

Ben's been railroaded, probably right out of Pittsburgh, and I for one am pissed! Pissed at a reactionary public that leapt through every hoop the local and national media put in place to paint Ben in the most negative light possible, taking witness accounts that didn't have the validity to bring about charges as gospel truth!

Screw your lawyers advice Ben, screw the Rooney's AND THE LEAGUE fight back, don't accept this unwarranted suspension lying down. Take Goodell to appellete court! Sue thoese sick sority bitches that started this whole nonsense!

I want my quarterback cleared, because I know he's innocent!

Preacher
04-22-2010, 01:11 AM
I saw the Bouchette interview and I'm going with what he says. Nobody has a better understanding or knowledge of what's going on with the Steelers.



Perhaps, to break up the streak of 50 consecutive Ben threads?

ROTFL.

Well, my thread was an ATTEMPT to move at least a couple degrees away from a "Ben Thread".

fansince'76
04-22-2010, 01:18 AM
LMAO at the clown's (Cuban's) input. :laughing:

Cmdurand21
04-22-2010, 01:19 AM
A mediocre QB that isn't very accurate with limited upside..


But I hear he's a possible NFL Preseason ALL-PRO QB.:sofunny:

Oh thank god we have our resident pro football scout on hand to chime in with his 2 cents which, really, amount to bullshit.

What you did was look at the 1 game versus Baltimore. You saw a bad completion % and Viola! we've got accuracy problems. Never mind that he was over 60% in college and 67% in his senior year. Coming into the NFL it is true that he had to work on accuracy and was inconsistent. But, from what I have read, he is improving in these areas. I'm not ready is claim he "isn't very accurate" after 1 game vs a good defense.

Would you like to elaborate on the "limited upside".

Here, this will help to to make more of those CLASSIC posts that you are used too.
http://i364.photobucket.com/albums/oo89/steve_in_washington/jump_to_conclusions.jpg

Preacher
04-22-2010, 01:19 AM
m. smith did an interview on sirius last week. he said if there wasnt a suspension of ben, it could possibly divide the locker room.

there was a definite belief that he fell under a different set of rules.

he doesnt have an agenda and isnt out to burn ben. he was just telling it as it is/was.
"It wasn't like that with Coach Cowher and Whisenhunt,"

"Ben wasn't the one that was making us win. It was a team effort.

Sounds like sour grapes to me, just like that lined up next to him for a few years.

SteelKnight
04-22-2010, 01:21 AM
Here are the Roster rules that were clarified when Vick was up. IDK. If it were me, I might go ahead and let him count against the 53 man roster so he can practice and be with his team on the sidelines. Because the combination of receivers are new, I wouldn't want him to get rusty.

If Dixon gets picked, his coaching of Dixon might be helpful.


----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

1. If Vick’s team elects to make him available to practice, then he would count against the 53-man roster, according to the memo. Once that decision is made, it is final, and a team couldn’t then subsequently withhold Vick from practice or receive any exemption.

2. If Vick’s team opts to have him not practice, then he would not count against the 53-man roster but instead would be on an “exempt list.” That would make him ineligible to practice, but he could watch film, attend practice, participate in meetings, do weight training and and put in individual work. But, again, he couldn’t take part in the actual practice itself.

If Vick’s team opts to make him ineligible, at the time he becomes eligible to participate in regular-season games, the team would receive an “applicable roster exemption.” That means that leading up to Vick’s first regular-season game, the team would have a buffer of some period of time – not yet distinguished — by which to determine when to make him active and thus count against the 53-man roster (which would prompt a roster move with another player). Those exemptions also are in place when a player comes back from suspension. For instance (and Vick no longer is a suspended player — let’s make that clear), the team generally has a week or two to make such a decision. Again, this memo doesn’t stipulate an exact time frame in this instance, according to those who have read it.

Furthermore, during the regular-season and preseason games in which Vick is ineligible to play, he cannot be on the sidelines, but he can watch the game from a coaching box or club box, etc.

fansince'76
04-22-2010, 01:21 AM
Sounds like sour grapes to me, just like that lined up next to him for a few years.

Glad it isn't just me who thought that. "A 'Cowher Guy' through and through," was the thought that went through my mind.

zulater
04-22-2010, 01:22 AM
Whitlock is a very good writer..

I don't agree with a suspension, but I can see where he is coming from..

I think the sorority sisters railroaded Ben! Honestly I do. What a way to end a quarterback's career in Pittsburgh over a pack of lying skank drunken sorority sisters.

Oh and before anyone goes saying I'm full of it, there's a lot more credible evidence of conspiracy on the sorority sisters part than there is that Ben raped their friend.

I'm sick of ***** footing around and playing the pc game.He didn't do it, but the media and public are dancing the tune of political correctness wherein the poor little girl has to be telling the truth simply because Ben was accused before ( and countersuing) so she must be telling the truth even though her story has more holes in it than McKnight road. Ben tends to be a boorish entitled frat boy prick, so he's the perfect target. and thus the perfect storm wherin an innocent but unlikable man goes down in flames for nothing.

I am not happy tonight! :banging: .

Shea
04-22-2010, 01:23 AM
Ben's been railroaded, probably right out of Pittsburgh, and I for one am pissed!

Bullshit.

If Ben finds his way out of the Burgh, it's because of his own doing.

As far as him going on the offensive, it would probably serve him well to keep his dumbass mouth shut and let the process play itself out.

The Rooney's are pissed and they know him and know more about him and this situation than all of us here combined. If they feel that merits a trade, then that's telling me that Ben is as big a douche as all the stories throughout the years that have painted him as such and the Rooney's are probably realizing they have a seriously bad apple on their hands, and are tired of it.

They were supportive and working with Goodell on the suspension decision, which is telling.

And in the meantime - keep up with the shut-up Ben, and take it.

Bigsteve332310
04-22-2010, 01:24 AM
And how many of us were accused of rape MULTIPLE times?

How many of us are millionaires that people could see as a big payday?

Preacher
04-22-2010, 01:26 AM
Are we still allowed to say that?

No, your not. From what I have been reading, you should say, "Ben can bang any ho-bag he wants..." since of course, anyone who ever dares claim something against Ben is OF COURSE a Ho-bag.

Preacher
04-22-2010, 01:28 AM
Glad it isn't just me who thought that. "A 'Cowher Guy' through and through," was the thought that went through my mind.

Yep, exactly. and upset that "his guy" didn't get the head coaching job.

JSH6487
04-22-2010, 01:28 AM
Oh thank god we have our resident pro football scout on hand to chime in with his 2 cents which, really, amount to bullshit.

What you did was look at the 1 game versus Baltimore. You saw a bad completion % and Viola! we've got accuracy problems. Never mind that he was over 60% in college and 67% in his senior year. Coming into the NFL it is true that he had to work on accuracy and was inconsistent. But, from what I have read, he is improving in these areas. I'm not ready is claim he "isn't very accurate" after 1 game vs a good defense.

Would you like to elaborate on the "limited upside".

Here, this will help to to make more of those CLASSIC posts that you are used too.
http://i364.photobucket.com/albums/oo89/steve_in_washington/jump_to_conclusions.jpg

LMAO...another clown who brings up college football stats into his argument. Totally useless. I already had this same exact argument with someone else on this board. There are so many QB's just like Dixon who had a high completion % in college. Troy Smith (65.3%), Pat White (66.7%) and I could name a lot more but there really is no point. Dixon is the typical scrambling run first throw second inaccurate QB. That works in college, but not even close in the NFL. In college you can get away with it because the defenses don't have nearly enough talent or the schemes to stop the dual threat QB. Stack up against the run, and even an inaccurate QB like Dixon should be able to beat a college DB in 1 on 1 coverage. Drop back in dime coverage, and he'll run all over you. He's trying to make the transformation into a pocket passer to play in the NFL, but it flat out won't work and history supports that.

Troy Smith and Pat White were much better than Dixon in college and still probably are in the pros, but they will never eeeever be a starting QB in the NFL. Dixon will be no different.

Preacher
04-22-2010, 01:33 AM
Wow.

Once of the few new Ben threads that actually contribute to the forum. Thank you.

I say go for number 2. If Ben is still part of the roster, then you can only carry two other QB's. That means Byron and either Batch or Dixon. I'd rather let it go 5 weeks (bye week, plus 4 suspended weeks, I really don't think it'll get beyond that) and THEN make the choice between Batch or Dixon, and that choice, at this point, should be easy.

zulater
04-22-2010, 01:33 AM
Bullshit.

If Ben finds his way out of the Burgh, it's because of his own doing.

As far as him going on the offensive, it would probably serve him well to keep his dumbass mouth shut and let the process play itself out.

Bullshit right back! if he hasn't commited a crime ( and I don't beleive he did) he needs to start shouting it from the rafters. Rolling over and taking it just doesn't seem to be doing him a helluva lot of good at the moment.

The Rooney's are pissed and they know him and know more about him and this situation than all of us here combined.

I think they're starting to believe their own farts smell like roses, always a dangerous thing. I think this belief that they know more than the general public is way overstated. The full GBI report is available to anyone that wants to see it at the Smoking Gun.The Rooney's and the league have chosen the tune of public perception over the factual truth as to what happened that night, based on the conclusions one would reach having read the entire report! .


l If they feel that merits a trade, then that's telling me that Ben is as big a douche as all the stories throughout the years that have painted him as such and the Rooney's are probably realizing they have a seriously bad apple on their hands, and are tired of it.

They were supportive and working with Goodell on the suspension decision, which is telling.

And in the meantime - keep up with the shut-up Ben, and take it.

Innocent people need to tell their side of the story. I'm really hoping that Ben starts to get his story out. It's his right as an American citizen, though you would deny him of it.

Bigsteve332310
04-22-2010, 01:39 AM
Just had drinks w commish goodell for a while in nyc and literally no less than 10 ppl thanked him for ben punishment. Surreal hour and 1/2

From Jay Glazer's Twitter. http://twitter.com/Jay_Glazer

Goodell is guilty of the same thing Ben is guilty of...going out and drinking.:drink:

Preacher
04-22-2010, 01:39 AM
Assuming we trade Ben and Bradford is already gone, I think we should go highly consider getting Jimmy Clausen AND Golden Tate. Getting just one of those guys would benefit our team but imagine getting two guys with amazing chemistry like that already built up, they could be lighting it up in no time.

Problem is, a rookie wide receiver won't start ahead of our three receivers we have right now.

Also, I have a hard time imagining college football chemistry translating to the NFL.

CaliStillersFan
04-22-2010, 01:44 AM
Not so much "employment-at-will" as "right-to-work" state, and not so much the communists as the Right-wing's hatred of labor unions. To your point, however, communists hate labor unions almost as much as the capitalists do, so perhaps the Communist Workers' Party of Virginia was responsible for that particular law.

Either way, it just translates to a "right-not-to-have-a-union-represent-you" state.

Funny you said that. I never understand why your average blue collar republicans talk crap about unions. And republicans cant understand why most of us hate them.

Here's the republicans platform:

- Unions are bad - yeah screw the working man.

- Healthcare reform - whats that? I only care about the poor people that work for the health insurance industry. I don't want government run health care but don't you dare touch my medicare or social security

- Wall St reform - FREE MARKET!!! Deregulation!!! FREE MARKET!!! deregulation!!! - those nice banks learned their lesson, they won't screw us again.

- government spending is bad unless it's spent killing our enemies, and government can never spend money on its own citizens (unless of course those citizens make $10million a year), those people are the true Americans.

-gays are evil, they are lesser humans and don't deserve the right to be miserable like the rest of us.

-illegal immigrants need to be deported (except the ones that work for me of course)

Now I can understand the right wing politicians spewing this non sense, but how they got the average blue collar American worker to trumpet this for them is beyond me.

With all those heart warming views on their platform I need to switch from libertarian to republican tomorrow. LOL The sad part is the people that get behind the republicans warped sense of America are the same people wanting Ben traded because he doesn't share their "morality", and all I can say to that is, "pot meet kettle".

And before anyone cries that I shouldn't be talking politics on a football message board - I say well this is what you get when you all decided to mix morality with sports. If you Christians would have kept your morality in your churches we wouldn't even be having this discussion - Ben would still be a beloved Steeler!!!

At least this atheist still enjoys watching him do what he does best which is win football games. ;) :drink:

fansince'76
04-22-2010, 01:45 AM
Yes and no. I think the FO now understands the absolute importance of a franchise QB, that we can't just pick up any old guy and put him back there. I think more emphasis would be placed on finding Ben's replacement-- DOn't forget, 13 of those years came because Cowher did not value the QB position as much as he did the run game. Matter of fact, stories are out there that they were going to pass on Ben as well, but Dan Rooney stepped in and forced the pick. So there is no real reason to expect another 20 some odd years.

Not to mention missing out on an all-time great in '83 who was a bus ride across town.... :banging:

zulater
04-22-2010, 01:46 AM
Do you people think somebody makes this stuff up?



In this case I do. the girl was talked into it by her sority sisters. Read Jason Whitlock's column, apparently that isn't such an uncommon occurance.

No DNA, in alleged unprotected sex, sorry but he didn't do it Vince.

But he does have a long history of boorish loutish behaviour to his (dis) credit, so he makes the perfect mark.


I've got a prediction Vince.

One day years from now one of those girls will probably come foward and tell the truth on how they destroyed a man's life. She''ll claim the guilt's been weighing her down or something to that effect, boo hoo hoo! But the real reason she'll come foward is to hawk her book that she's selling. But regardless, she'll finally be telling the truth and all those that branded Ben guilty hopefully will have a moments introspection.

tony hipchest
04-22-2010, 01:50 AM
LMAO at the clown's (Cuban's) input. :laughing:

one of the best owners in the NBA. i sure as hell wish he owned the pirates. now those guys are TRUE clowns.

the rooneys have been put on notice by the new corporate dictatorship of the NFL.

-dan has been sent packing to ireland.

-the rooneys only own the steelers in name only now. what they really own is a bunch of debt and a ton of partners to back them.

-the poster child for the 'rooney rule" and the family that went to goodells hotel room to tell him he was appointed commish, is now the 1st team to be fined under the "personal conduct policy".

its unfortunate to see our team figureheads being turned into corporate bitches, who now walk around on eggshells in the presense of der fuhrer.

they think they do the right thing in dumping holmes and still pay the price.:doh:

they represent pittsburgh, steelernation, and even (irish)american heritage.

corporate shills such as goodell, kraft, jones, and snyder represent globalization and the almighty dollar.

odd man out. :noidea:

Shea
04-22-2010, 01:52 AM
Innocent people need to tell their side of the story. I'm really hoping that Ben starts to get his story out. It's his right as an American citizen, though you would deny him of it.

I don't deny him anything. Try again.

Answer me this though - do you think the Rooney's are that dumb to consider trading away a top five quarterback without knowing that something was seriously wrong with him? With having access to Roethlisberger on a daily basis, they know more about him then us all and they might have reached a point that they can no longer deny what type of person he is.

I was predicting a two game suspension, but I'm thinking perhaps that meeting with Goodell went down with Ben possibly coming across as c0cky and arrogant, and without contrition, which seems to fit into the gazillion stories of him characterizing him in that same manner and therefore a stronger suspension.

And I also see the Rooney's seeing that same person. You can't win with that, on or off the field.

Cmdurand21
04-22-2010, 01:54 AM
LMAO...another clown who brings up college football stats into his argument. Totally useless. I already had this same exact argument with someone else on this board. There are so many QB's just like Dixon who had a high completion % in college. Troy Smith (65.3%), Pat White (66.7%) and I could name a lot more but there really is no point. Dixon is the typical scrambling run first throw second inaccurate QB. That works in college, but not even close in the NFL. In college you can get away with it because the defenses don't have nearly enough talent or the schemes to stop the dual threat QB. Stack up against the run, and even an inaccurate QB like Dixon should be able to beat a college DB in 1 on 1 coverage. Drop back in dime coverage, and he'll run all over you. He's trying to make the transformation into a pocket passer to play in the NFL, but it flat out won't work and history supports that.

Troy Smith and Pat White were much better than Dixon in college and still probably are in the pros, but they will never eeeever be a starting QB in the NFL. Dixon will be no different.


Another clown who falsely assumes Dennis Dixon is a run 1st pass 2nd QB.. He ran the ball 3 times vs the Ravens, and one of them was a designed run (the TD). So how is he considered a run first QB? You can't bring up college stats because they are totally useless. YOU ARE JUST TALKING OUT OF YOUR ASS.

The comparisons to Troy Smith and Pat White are unfair too. Troy Smith is way undersized for the NFL and Pat White came from a gimmick offense and was way more of a run first QB then Dixon.

Also your "history" of there never being a good running QB in the NFL, did you forget Randall Cunningham?

zulater
04-22-2010, 01:55 AM
From Jay Glazer's Twitter. http://twitter.com/Jay_Glazer

Goodell is guilty of the same thing Ben is guilty of...going out and drinking.:drink:

You just knew this self glorifying bastard Goodell was having the time of his life last night.:banging: