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Shea
05-27-2010, 01:16 AM
If he is such a monster, why didn't they cut ties with him, then? Get off your high horse. And you can also lose the hypocrisy - "I'll root for him when he plays and wins games, but I'll still hate his guts and count the days until he's finally gone."

Jesus Christ. :rolleyes:

The reason they haven't cut him is because they are hoping against hope he will change.

They aren't stupid. They are going to do everything they can in hopes of salvaging him and his career in Pittsburgh because they know how great of a QB he is. They are giving him one last chance in hopes of awakening him with the suspension, but this will be the last of it if he screws up again.

I'm not on a high horse, or hypocritical. I absolutely LOVE the Steelers and if he's the QB of that team than I of course will wish him well on the field.

It's not just about Ben, but fifty something other players and I don't hold Ben above any of them.

As far as your responses have delved during this discussion, well I have to point to your favorite posting crutch: :coffee:

No offense of course. :coffee:

fansince'76
05-27-2010, 01:23 AM
Jesus Christ. :rolleyes:

The reason they haven't cut him is because they are hoping against hope he will change.

They aren't stupid. They are going to do everything they can in hopes of salvaging him and his career in Pittsburgh because they know how great of a QB he is. They are giving him one last chance in hopes of awakening him with the suspension, but this will be the last of it if he screws up again.

I'm not on a high horse, or hypocritical. I absolutely LOVE the Steelers and if he's the QB of that team than I of course will wish him well on the field.

It's not just about Ben, but fifty something other players and I don't hold Ben above any of them.

As far as your responses have delved during this discussion, well I have to point to your favorite posting crutch: :coffee:

No offense of course. :coffee:

Yeah, whatever. :blah: :blah: :blah:

If he is as irredeemable of a person as you make him out to be, they wouldn't be trying to "salvage" him. Like you said, the Rooneys aren't stupid and know when to cut ties (see ya, Santo).

Shea
05-27-2010, 01:41 AM
If he is as irredeemable of a person as you make him out to be, they wouldn't be trying to "salvage" him. Like you said, the Rooneys aren't stupid and know when to cut ties (see ya, Santo).

To compare an elite quarterback to a receiver is ignorant. This is the NFL, you live or die by the man behind center. Try again.

Yeah, whatever. :blah: :blah: :blah:

My sentiments exactly but let me put it in FS76 mode:

:blah: :coffee: :blah: :coffee: :blah: :coffee: :blah:

And my own personal contribution to you: :rolleyes:

Again, WAKE UP!

fansince'76
05-27-2010, 01:43 AM
Again, WAKE UP!

And again, get off your self-righteous, holier than thou high horse.

Shea
05-27-2010, 01:52 AM
And again, get off your self-righteous, holier than thou high horse. :yawn:

:toofunny:

If you even knew an itty bitty ounce about me then even you'd find humor in that reply.

Pathetic response.

Instead of attacking me why not offer up an intelligent response to what I posted?

Comparing Santo to Ben is ridiculous.

fansince'76
05-27-2010, 01:56 AM
:toofunny:

If you even knew an itty bitty ounce about me then even you'd find humor in that reply.

Pathetic response.

Instead of attacking me why not offer up an intelligent response to what I posted?

Comparing Santo to Ben is ridiculous.

You're the one who started with the attacks by telling me very condescendingly to "wake up" so you may want to check your indignation at the door. I don't agree with you. Deal.

Ignorance is thinking that the Rooneys would continue to waste time on a completely irredeemable personality that you seem to think Ben is, regardless of said player's value to the team. Winning at all costs isn't what the Rooneys are about - winning the right way is. If Ben was as much of a lost cause as you and many others seem to think he is, and the Rooneys actually agreed with that assessment, he'd already be gone.

Good enough for you?

Shea
05-27-2010, 02:39 AM
You're the one who started with the attacks by telling me very condescendingly to "wake up" so you may want to check your indignation at the door. I don't agree with you. Deal.

Ignorance is thinking that the Rooneys would continue to waste time on a completely irredeemable personality that you seem to think Ben is, regardless of said player's value to the team. Winning at all costs isn't what the Rooneys are about - winning the right way is. If Ben was as much of a lost cause as you and many others seem to think he is, and the Rooneys actually agreed with that assessment, he'd already be gone.
Good enough for you?

This is where I disagree.

Elite quarterbacks rarely come along, and Roethlisberger has shown he is one and has delivered two Lombardi's to back it up.

I think the Rooney's, due to their constant contact with the team, something which we or the media don't have, know something is seriously wrong with Ben and because of his position on the team are hoping against hope he changes his ways. They need him to add to the trophy case, but they aren't going to continue to embrace glory when it comes at the cost of public or personal disgust.

I know we all bring about our own personal opinions about everything on this board, not only in the football forums but the locker room, etc ...

Therefore in this thread, my thoughts are that I have a very bad intuition about Ben, and I do hope I'm wrong and hope that he turns his life around, but I seriously believe he is a bad apple and am skeptical that he can change his ways. You are what you are.

But I'm sorry if I offended you, but this is where I'm coming from.

How about peace, and as my offering within that, I get where you are coming from and know within that that no particular person is right or wrong but that they see things thru a different spectrum.

:drink: ?????

Deal?

zulater
05-27-2010, 06:23 AM
This is where I disagree.

Elite quarterbacks rarely come along, and Roethlisberger has shown he is one and has delivered two Lombardi's to back it up.

I think the Rooney's, due to their constant contact with the team, something which we or the media don't have, know something is seriously wrong with Ben and because of his position on the team are hoping against hope he changes his ways.

Yet they only came to this conclusion after the events in Ga.? They've been up to their neck with Ben since April 2004, yet their "intuition" never once kicked in until shortly after the second day witness report was released by D.A. Bright? The Rooney's disposition changed completely that day.

They need him to add to the trophy case, but they aren't going to continue to embrace glory when it comes at the cost of public or personal disgust.

I would suggest they get to the heart of the real truth as to what happened in Ga. and if Ben is guilty of nothing worse than trying to have consentual sex with a girl who appears to have pursued him much of the night then they need to make the public know that's how they feel.

If the worst Ben is guilty of is being flippant, dismissive and generally ill mannered to the public on multiple occasions then that doesn't rise to the level of personal disgust, or it shouldn't.

I know we all bring about our own personal opinions about everything on this board, not only in the football forums but the locker room, etc ...

Therefore in this thread, my thoughts are that I have a very bad intuition about Ben, and I do hope I'm wrong and hope that he turns his life around, but I seriously believe he is a bad apple and am skeptical that he can change his ways. You are what you are.

Which is exactly what? A rapist or a ego obsessed jerk when out on the town? Be honest, I'm pretty sure I know what you think.

But I'm sorry if I offended you, but this is where I'm coming from.

How about peace, and as my offering within that, I get where you are coming from and know within that that no particular person is right or wrong but that they see things thru a different spectrum.

:drink: ?????

Deal?

One last thing. To the oft repeated thought that Ben has no friends. What about all those guys that were down in Ga. with him? You can judge a man by the company he keeps. so were those guys all creeps? Yeah well tell me did any of them possess a criminal record? A couple cops, Willie Colon, some other family men? Real thugs huh? And let's not forget that Jerome Bettis, and Jeff Hartings with with the group a day or two earliar. Now that's not to say Ben and his party didn't do some creepy things that night. Group mentality being what it is and all, especially when being fueled to some degree by alchohol consumption and the availability of attractive young ladies. Hell you get the same effect with a group of woman sometimes too don't you shea? You ever have one of your ladies friends act like a ass during a bachlorette party? You think it's fair to judge them forevermore based on what they may have done that night? This was after all supposed to be Ben's birthday party. Just like woman perform for each other during bachlorette parties wouldn't it occur to you that Ben's acting like an ass would in part be play acting for his assembled party? Remember how one woman felt as if Ben's statement about "drink my shots bitches" or whatever it was he said was done in good humor?


I know I've been excluded from this conversation but i have a point to make nonetheless.

Dino 6 Rings
05-27-2010, 10:22 AM
"The Don" Rooney isn't upset because Ben banged some broad in a bar.

"The Don" Rooney is upset that Ben brought unwanted attention to the "family" "The Don" Rooney and his family make all their money off gambling, that's why they own, or did own, horse tracks, that's why there is a casino within a stone's throw of Heniz Field. They aren't so "clean" that they don't have a little shadow around them. Its kind of impossible to own a Professional Sports Franchise without getting your hands a little dirty.

Holmes was becoming a liability, opening his trap all the time, getting high all the time, failing drug tests, getting popped with weed, that's too much attention. Bye Bye Holmes. Now Ben has brought unwanted attention to the family 2 times. One more and he won't be traded...he'll be sleeping with the fish in the bottom of the Ohio River.

This notion of "do it the right way" is rather ridiculous at this point. Its not like the Rooneys made their money selling girl scout cookies, or that they haven't had bad seeds on the teams before. Its all about not embarressing the family. Ben has caused embarressment. That's it. He's done nothing Criminal. That's the record as it currently stands. Zero Crimes. Unlike Holmes who has done Illegal things.

Ben will now sit for 4 games, knowing that week 5 is a bye week, that'll give Ben 2 weeks to prepare for game #5 and get his football skills back in order. Until then, the Rooney's and Tomlin have already dictated that we will be more focussed on rushing the ball, and with the defense back at '08 strength with even more depth now, we will try to win the first 4without Ben and stay competitive for the games we need to win in order to get into the playoffs.

For the record, we won a Super Bowl without Holmes, we didn't win one without Ben.

Ben is more important to the team, for winning. Holmes made a fancy catch and a few great plays in the playoffs and in the SB, but El and Ward were the men in 05, heck even Wilson made some great plays that playoff run. We have the Receivers who can step up and make plays, its always been about the QB, which is why Ben was drafted in the First Round. To be the Franchise QB. Holmes was drafted to replace Randel El / Plaxico.

zulater
05-27-2010, 03:10 PM
quoting Preacher from another thread

Nope. Not fixed. It was substantiated by her friends. It was not substantiated to the point of proving it BEYOND A REASONABLE SHADOW OF DOUBT.

Sadly enough this is where i think a majority of people get the basis of their opinion from.

The second day witness accounts of the sorority girls are what fuels the flames of the anti Ben sentiment that continues to threaten his very career.

I think a reminder of the first night witness statements are in order for Preacher and all of like mind.

The charges were driven by friends of the accuser, chief among them was a girl who was kicked out of the VIP section earliar that night by Ben because she was openly reffering to him as a rapist based on the previous allegation.

anyway from there let's go to here...

e.com/politics-journal/2010/4/15/the-media-lynching-of-ben-roethlisberger.html

12. THE SORORITY SISTERS STARTED THE INITIAL COMMOTION. They felt the accuser was too drunk to be fraternizing with Roethlisberger. So they acted based upon that judgment. The facts are:

(A) The sorority sisters complained to the club manager that Ben and accuser were together in the locked bathroom. (citation forthcoming)

(B) The sorority sisters are the ones who complained to police and said it was a "rape." From the DA conference: "The Sorority Sisters were doing the talking [making the accusation]." (See DA press conference, PART-2, starts 2:42 and key part at about 3:10 and 4:00: http://www.thepittsburghchannel.com/video/index.html [also at: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vaRGdYizw7g]) (See also, DA interview, PART-3, 10:20 http://www.thepittsburghchannel.com/video/index.html [also at: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9PsdE_KudoY]).

(C) The officer at the scene was perturbed by the fact that the sisters were doing the talking. Post-Gazette: "The victim's friends got on Blash's Nerves because he kept asking them were they back there with her, and they said no. The victim's friends were trying to tell what was going on more than the victim was, and the victim could not answer Blash's questions."

13. THE ACCUSER HERSELF WAS UNCERTAIN ABOUT THE MATTER. When the officer on the spot said "I need to talk to the alleged victim, not [the sorority sisters]," he asked the accuser if Roethlisberger had raped her. She said:

(A). "No." (DA news conference; PART 2, starts 2:42, key point: about 4:10: http://www.thepittsburghchannel.com/video/index.html [also at: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vaRGdYizw7g])

(B) When asked if the two had sex, she said "well, I'm not sure." (DA interview, PART 2, starts 2:42, key point: about 4:20: http://www.thepittsburghchannel.com/video/index.html [also at: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vaRGdYizw7g]).


(Blash also said she seemed inebriated, incoherent, "nonchalant," and at times seemed to to want to tell someone that "y'all did whatever.")

I realize many will claim that the original investigating officer was subequently discredited therefore his report has no validity, to which I say bullshit. Just because he made some off the cuff inapproriate remarks about the accusers doesn't mean that his report was flawed, that he made up quotes and attributed to the accuser, ( which I've never seen alleged anyway) or that his conclusions were in error.

So this is what it comes down to. If his intitial report was accurate that means the sorority girls particuarly the accuser greatly embellished their second day witness acount. Or he deliberately botched an investigation to allow a rapist get away with it.

So why do we believe,the drunken sorority girls or the" tainted" cop?

Well this is how I came to my decision, I know for a fact that the police officer was ready able and willing to go on the stand and swear before God, judge and jury in his full belief in that original report. Mr Bright the D.A. knew the officer would stand by his statements under oath as well. The accuser wasn't willing to do the same.

Pretty clear cut if you ask me who should be given the benifit of the doubt.


:coffee: