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wdsteel
04-21-2010, 01:40 PM
well now Ben just has to make it past pick #10 thursday and then we are ok.

Sansi
04-21-2010, 01:40 PM
you quoted me and totally ignored what i wrote she had a fake id that said she was of age thats not his fault. its the bars fault for not spotting the fake id.:banging:

IT IS HIS FAULT. Jesus Christ. It does NOT matter what age she SAYS she is. It does not matter what age her ID says she is. What matters is her ACTUAL age. The law does not care that the girl lied to you. Perhaps to avoid this situation a 28 year old man could stay away from COLLEGE BARS. Ben is responsible for BEN being in this situation. Girls attend college starting at age eighteen and anyone with a brain KNOWS this. Logically anyone in that bar could be under 21. So, being a responsible man with a multi-million salary, a team to lead, a fan base to cultivate, and a LEAGUE to represent admirably, you do not do what he did. This is not a difficult concept. It. Is. His. Fault.

plenewken
04-21-2010, 01:41 PM
thats not illegal thats why i left it out.....and besides buying a girl a drink isnt just to get laid it also an icebreaker to start conversation.

Dude, you crack me up. Ben was with his buddies, he was not looking for women to have a conversation, puhleeze! And he was not looking for a date either, much less with young college girls 800 miles from where he lives. C'mon! lol

steelpinstripe72
04-21-2010, 01:41 PM
No. It is not the bar's responsibility. Is it the supermarket's responsibility if I buy beer for a 16 year old? The answer is no. Ben purchased the alcohol. You can't put this on anyone else, and he is not deflecting that blame. At the very least, he is at fault for that. To say anything less is turning a total blind eye to the entire situation.

Actually it is the supermarket's responsibility. I worked in one and we had to be sure that the alcohol being sold would not be provided to minors (like, had to look outside to make sure teens weren't hanging out outside the store waiting for the person buying the beer or whatever). If something happened later, it could be traced back to the cashier via a number on the bottom of the receipt, if they still have it, and the cashier could be fired/arrested.

xbroughneck
04-21-2010, 01:44 PM
Bullshit. we have so much talent on this team, ben is good but he isnt the only good player on this team

So much talent huh? Lost two players and we didn't make the playoffs.

Ben is the MOST VALUABLE player. Hence, his paycheck.

PERIOD.

Sansi
04-21-2010, 01:44 PM
Actually it is the supermarket's responsibility. I worked in one and we had to be sure that the alcohol being sold would not be provided to minors (like, had to look outside to make sure teens weren't hanging out outside the store waiting for the person buying the beer or whatever). If something happened later, it could be traced back to the cashier via a number on the bottom of the receipt, if they still have it, and the cashier could be fired/arrested.

No. This is true to the point that a minor hanging around a purchaser is cause for concern. But once I have purchased the alcohol and the store has made a good faith effort to ensure I will be the one drinking the alcohol, responsibility is mine and no one elses. This is why there is a crime specifically existing to punish an adult providing alcohol to a minor.

SteelKnight
04-21-2010, 01:44 PM
As far as I'm concerned, this 6 games suspension won't make me consider Ben less of an @sshole. Same for Vick by the way.

In terms of football, since he's your favorite player, would you still root for him if he was traded? Just curious.

No. I would not root for him if he was traded...simply because I tend not to root for ex-Steelers unless we have a better replacement. In his case our quality would go down so I wouldn't be able to root for him. First, it would break my heart. Second, it had better be an NFC team.

I though tof a way the night might have happened.

Maybe the girl said "We can't do this in an open club. It's not OK. (smiling a bit)" Next she walks to the bathroom and when ben follows her she sais "Not here...It's not OK." Ben says "It's OK" (thinking she is talking about getting trouble with the club people or someone sneaking in on them).

Why did she keep saying the same thing "It's not OK" instead of rephasing it. "No...this is rape." "Stop...I'll tell the police." That would wake someone up.

She was drunk and I'm not saying for sure she is lying but I HAVE seen women lie or bend stories in college because they were embarassed about what they did. It happens.

He should grow up and stop trying to take advantage of college kids...but I'm not sure she is telling the full truth.

SteelCityMom
04-21-2010, 01:44 PM
It is illegal to provide alcohol for someone not of legal age to imbibe it. It is also immoral by any sane standard. It doesn't matter what age you think she is.

Wait...what?

Of course it's illegal to provide alcohol to a minor...depending on the setting. Like say your 19 year old son has some friends over (that you know or suspect are under 21) and you provide them with alcohol, that's illegal.

In a bar (where the bouncers and/or owners are supposed to be checking and tagging underage individuals), if a person who is under 21 lies about their age and says they are old enough, then it's the bar's owners who are responsible...not Ben. To say otherwise is absolutely insane.

MACH1
04-21-2010, 01:46 PM
Actually it is the supermarket's responsibility. I worked in one and we had to be sure that the alcohol being sold would not be provided to minors (like, had to look outside to make sure teens weren't hanging out outside the store waiting for the person buying the beer or whatever). If something happened later, it could be traced back to the cashier via a number on the bottom of the receipt, if they still have it, and the cashier could be fired/arrested.

Kinda like how a bar should card and know how to spot fake id's?

If she's in the bar drinking it's the bars fault, not Ben's. If Ben bought her a drink, it's the bar's fault for her being in there in the first place. It's not Ben's responsibility to card people IN the bar before he buy's them a drink.

mtsamuelson
04-21-2010, 01:46 PM
Really, you HAVE to suffer? There are 31 more teams out there, pick one.

So, you're saying I should change teams because of one d-bag on the team that can't get his life together?

Right. That's perfectly logical.

SteelCityMom
04-21-2010, 01:46 PM
IT IS HIS FAULT. Jesus Christ. It does NOT matter what age she SAYS she is. It does not matter what age her ID says she is. What matters is her ACTUAL age. The law does not care that the girl lied to you. Perhaps to avoid this situation a 28 year old man could stay away from COLLEGE BARS. Ben is responsible for BEN being in this situation. Girls attend college starting at age eighteen and anyone with a brain KNOWS this. Logically anyone in that bar could be under 21. So, being a responsible man with a multi-million salary, a team to lead, a fan base to cultivate, and a LEAGUE to represent admirably, you do not do what he did. This is not a difficult concept. It. Is. His. Fault.

Have you ever owned a bar? Have you ever worked as a bartender? Do you even know the laws you are talking about, or are you just postulating.

Thought so. Move on....Ben is not responsible for an underage girl drinking in a bar. Period.

OX1947
04-21-2010, 01:46 PM
If the Steelers want to trade Big Ben, it has to be now. After the draft would be worthless. They need to trade him tonight and get the picks.

lamberts-lost-tooth
04-21-2010, 01:46 PM
Steelers open to trading Roethlisberger, but Rams not interested
By Jason La Canfora | NFL.com



The Pittsburgh Steelers have stepped up their efforts to trade two-time Super Bowl-winning quarterback Ben Roethlisberger, who received a six-game suspension Wednesday for violating the NFL's personal-conduct policy.

The Steelers had a brief conversation with the St. Louis Rams over the weekend, according to a league source, but the Rams weren't interested in taking on Roethlisberger. The Steelers wanted to send Roethlisberger to the Rams as part of a package to move up to No. 1 overall in this week's draft and select Oklahoma quarterback Sam Bradford.

The Steelers remain open to dealing Roethlisberger, but they want decent value in return. Given the six-game suspension and the limited interest in Roethlisberger, team sources now view a deal as extremely remote, if not impossible. They never viewed it as likely from the onset, but they were extremely open to it.

If the Steelers were somehow able to unload Roethlisberger, his new team would have to take on his suspension.

The Steelers prepared for Roethlisberger's suspension Tuesday by acquiring quarterback Byron Leftwich from the Tampa Bay Buccaneers in exchange for a seventh-round pick (225th overall). Leftwich was Roethlisberger's backup during the Steelers' 2008 Super Bowl championship season and could be a fill-in starter.

The Steelers also have longtime backup Charlie Batch and third-year pro Dennis Dixon under contract at quarterback. Batch has been injured each of the past two seasons. Dixon has started only one NFL game, but he likely would compete with Leftwich in training camp to be the early season starter.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story?id=09000d5d817ab5f4&template=with-video-with-comments&confirm=true

NJarhead
04-21-2010, 01:47 PM
4-6 over an entire season maybe without Ben in the lineup. The suspension was complete BS and people have a right to be pissed about it...so shut the hell up Mr. Ultimate Steeler fan from Jersey.

I had the right to be pissed at Ben too for causing all of this crap.

And you don't tell me to shut the hell up little girl. Ben is gone for 4-6, why don't you leave until he comes back. Go cry, and piss and moan somewhere else.

Man I hate whiners.

:coffee:

Men of Steel
04-21-2010, 01:47 PM
I wonder how many twinkies Ben can eat before week 6?

i wonder how many twinkies ben will screw before week ..... :doh:

:noidea:

Sansi
04-21-2010, 01:49 PM
Wait...what?

Of course it's illegal to provide alcohol to a minor...depending on the setting. Like say your 19 year old son has some friends over (that you know or suspect are under 21), that's illegal.

In a bar (where the bouncers and/or owners are supposed to be checking and tagging underage individuals), if a person who is under 21 lies about their age and says they are old enough, then it's the bar's owners who are responsible...not Ben. To say otherwise is absolutely insane.

It's not insane. This is the world now. People who go out now live by these rules. You ask yourself, ask your friends "Hey she is in here, but how old does this girl look? Hell no I am staying far away from that." And forget a college town bar. We, as responsible males, do not expect the world to take care of everything for us. We look out for ourselves and we have fun while covering our asses. Know what I would call a friend buying shots for girls in a college club in a college town? An idiot. He could end up in trouble.

Pittsky
04-21-2010, 01:49 PM
suspense...........

plenewken
04-21-2010, 01:49 PM
So much talent huh? Lost two players and we didn't make the playoffs.

Ben is the MOST VALUABLE player. Hence, his paycheck.

PERIOD.

Ben sucked @ss in Superbowl XL and we still won. PERIOD.

stlrtruck
04-21-2010, 01:50 PM
This isn't a church, this is a football team. Sure, society should forgive him, but from a business standpoint, if it's likely Ben will do the same thing again then the Steelers should shop him.

What does church have to do with Ben's actions? And how can one determine if he'll "take the same road" without giving him an opportunity?

Would you rather sale the farm now and wait another 5 or more years to find that diamond in the rough for a franchise QB?

MACH1
04-21-2010, 01:50 PM
So, you're saying I should change teams because of one d-bag on the team that can't get his life together?

Right. That's perfectly logical.

If you hate him that much, pick another team or stop whining. Simple.

Still suffering?

steeldawg
04-21-2010, 01:51 PM
IT IS HIS FAULT. Jesus Christ. It does NOT matter what age she SAYS she is. It does not matter what age her ID says she is. What matters is her ACTUAL age. The law does not care that the girl lied to you. Perhaps to avoid this situation a 28 year old man could stay away from COLLEGE BARS. Ben is responsible for BEN being in this situation. Girls attend college starting at age eighteen and anyone with a brain KNOWS this. Logically anyone in that bar could be under 21. So, being a responsible man with a multi-million salary, a team to lead, a fan base to cultivate, and a LEAGUE to represent admirably, you do not do what he did. This is not a difficult concept. It. Is. His. Fault.

Several of you have raised in the comments that Roethlisberger would have had no way of knowing that the alleged victim was under 21. As explained by the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette on March 7, persons under the age of 21 are permitted to enter the bars but not drink. Those over the age of 21 wear a wristband. The nightclub at which the alleged incident occurred is believed to be "one of the stricter enforcers" of that policy. So if the alleged victim had testified that she wasn't wearing a wristband, that Roethlisberger gave her alcohol, and that she was close enough to Roethlisberger for him to see that she had no wristband, a conviction could have been obtained -- unless he were willing to take the stand in his own defense and testify that he didn't see that she didn't have a wristband.


this was nbc sports and explains unless he knew she was underage they could not prosecute him for this. also they said if that was the case and they wanted to charge roethlisberger with this misdameanor they would also have to charge the girl with underage drinking which is also a misdameanor....So what else you got for me?

SteelKnight
04-21-2010, 01:51 PM
So now punishments are contingent on how much people talk and complain instead of being contingent on the seriousness of the crime. :doh:

Six games is ridiculous and sets a bad precedent. Now...all we need to do is hire a girl to visit any bar frequented by our opponent's best players...make a false ALLEGATION of sexual assault...and we can eliminate having to face those players when we play their teams. :banging:

This was simply ridiculous especially since Ben participated in a ritual done a billion times in college bars everywhere around the world. Drinking, picking up a girl, and having xxx.

Wow...what's next...getting thrown in jail because you smiled at someone!

One thing I think is that us Ben supporters need to be more vocal. If some steeler fans are demanding e be traded and the FO is considering that, his suppoerters need to make a big deal about how mad they will be and how unforgiving (possibly threaten to boycott) if he IS traded. His supporters have been more quiet.

I'm happy with the 6 though because I know the medi was hoping for 1 so they could spend months complaining about double standards, was his sentence too light, did he get away with murder because of his status? All of that can go away now. Te only remaining complainers should be the ones who think he should be in jail...even though he was never arrested or charged and claims to be innocent.

Sansi
04-21-2010, 01:51 PM
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/04/18/the-underage-drinking-component-of-the-roethlisberger-case/

"First of all, he, Mr. Roethlisberger, there's a crime called furnishing alcohol to a minor under 21, OK?" Bright said. "And she, the victim, there's another crime called underage drinking. Both of these crimes are misdemeanors. Now, if we're going to prosecute one, we've got to prosecute the other. Let's talk about him furnishing alcohol to a minor under 21. The only way we can prosecute him is through her testimony. As for her, she's gone through enough already."

And further:

Several of you have raised in the comments that Roethlisberger would have had no way of knowing that the alleged victim was under 21. As explained by the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette on March 7, persons under the age of 21 are permitted to enter the bars but not drink. Those over the age of 21 wear a wristband. The nightclub at which the alleged incident occurred is believed to be "one of the stricter enforcers" of that policy. So if the alleged victim had testified that she wasn't wearing a wristband, that Roethlisberger gave her alcohol, and that she was close enough to Roethlisberger for him to see that she had no wristband, a conviction could have been obtained -- unless he were willing to take the stand in his own defense and testify that he didn't see that she didn't have a wristband.

SteelKnight
04-21-2010, 01:53 PM
If Ben didn't rape her, I wish he would take a lie detector. That would be good enoug for me. Even though it could be off because he was drinking ...it would still be good enough for me.

Sansi
04-21-2010, 01:54 PM
Well steeldawg, the article we both linked mere seconds apart seems to suggest that Ben could have been charged for furnishing alcohol to a minor. Which... is what is being said and is part of what Goodell is furious about (as mentioned in the letter he sent Ben). I kinda think it is evidence to the contrary of the "I'll just keep my head in the sand" crew and the "hey you never owned a bar so you don't know!" crew also.

steeldawg
04-21-2010, 01:54 PM
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/04/18/the-underage-drinking-component-of-the-roethlisberger-case/

"First of all, he, Mr. Roethlisberger, there's a crime called furnishing alcohol to a minor under 21, OK?" Bright said. "And she, the victim, there's another crime called underage drinking. Both of these crimes are misdemeanors. Now, if we're going to prosecute one, we've got to prosecute the other. Let's talk about him furnishing alcohol to a minor under 21. The only way we can prosecute him is through her testimony. As for her, she's gone through enough already."

And further:

Several of you have raised in the comments that Roethlisberger would have had no way of knowing that the alleged victim was under 21. As explained by the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette on March 7, persons under the age of 21 are permitted to enter the bars but not drink. Those over the age of 21 wear a wristband. The nightclub at which the alleged incident occurred is believed to be "one of the stricter enforcers" of that policy. So if the alleged victim had testified that she wasn't wearing a wristband, that Roethlisberger gave her alcohol, and that she was close enough to Roethlisberger for him to see that she had no wristband, a conviction could have been obtained -- unless he were willing to take the stand in his own defense and testify that he didn't see that she didn't have a wristband.

this abosultely proves my point unless he could see she was underage he could not be charged.

Merchant
04-21-2010, 01:54 PM
.............

Rick5895
04-21-2010, 01:55 PM
I wouldn’t get too worked up getting mad at the league for dishing this punishment. The league conducted their own investigation (which we have no insight into) and made the determination he needed a tough punishment. It appears there were other young ladies making claims that he didn’t exactly conduct himself in a gentlemanly manner. It’s obvious the Nevada woman is a gold digger and didn’t have anything but a consensual interaction with Ben. The woman in Georgia isn’t a saint, but what two time Super Bowl QB has to get a 20 year old trashed and use a bathroom to shag? I’m a little disturbed by the report that he made advances on his neighbor’s daughter … one report had her at 16 years old. There was also a report of another woman who contacted an attorney because Ben had a shady interaction with her. These supposed occurrences happened prior to the Georgia incident, so you can’t say they were piling on … plus they never went to the police to pursue anything.

I’m sure Ben is a great guy and he’s a very good football player. But if one of these women happened to be my sister, I would be of the opinion that a 6 game suspension wouldn’t be enough. He’s acted like a goofball at best (just think of riding the motorcycle without a helmet even though everyone told him not to). The George DA said it best “Grow up!”.

Besides, think of all the benefits of Ben being out for a good 4 games: 1) Dixon gets a good chance to show his stuff; 2) BA will have to find his running game early and once he sees the benefits of running the ball it may just stick with him; 3) Ben has another opportunity to learn that his football career won’t last forever and he should start to do the right things to keep himself in this game as long as he can … because that car windshield obviously didn’t teach him this lesson 4 years ago.
:applaudit:

Very well put. I have been reading this thread with some mixed feelings. I, myself , thought 4-8 games would be the suspension.
I have read some utterly disgraceful replies on here, name calling, insults etc... Ben did this to himself, he apparently has not learned a damn thing from the allegations in Nevada (however false they may be) nearly losing his life in a motorcycle accident which BTW he was driving without a license or helmet.
Hopefully this is the wake up call he needs, but somehow I am not so confident. He said he learned his lesson from the accident .... apparently NOT. He said he would conduct himself in a better light after the Nevada allegation,....HE DIDN"T. Ben continues to make bad decisions and life choices time after time, so confident I am not in Ben getting it this time.
We have lost our franchise QB for possibly 6 games because of his own stupidity and arrogance, and now with the stipulations put on him as far as when he can resume practicing football, he is more than likely untradeable for his worth ( IMO 2 firsts and a second)
For those of you who say they will not attend or support the Steelers while Ben is out, send me an email I will buy your tickets for the Falcons and Ravens and any other you want to give away, because, and I know some of you clearly don't understand this.., football is a team game and any good team ( LIKE THE STEELERS) is more than any one player and I CHEER FOR THE PITTSBURGH STEELERS, regardless of who plays QB. I hope Dixon or even Lefty lights it up and we go undefeated during the suspension and BIG Ben rides the pine all season. Maybe then Ben will understand what he has to lose.!!!!!

HERE WE GO STEELERS HERE WE GO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:tt04:

Sansi
04-21-2010, 01:55 PM
Do you seriously not understand that Bright is saying they did not prosecute Ben because they did not want to also prosecute the accuser?

steeldawg
04-21-2010, 01:56 PM
Well steeldawg, the article we both linked mere seconds apart seems to suggest that Ben could have been charged for furnishing alcohol to a minor. Which... is what is being said and is part of what Goodell is furious about (as mentioned in the letter he sent Ben). I kinda think it is evidence to the contrary of the "I'll just keep my head in the sand" crew and the "hey you never owned a bar so you don't know!" crew also.

They could not charge him for this because they could not prove ben knew she was under 21

SteelCityMom
04-21-2010, 01:57 PM
Several of you have raised in the comments that Roethlisberger would have had no way of knowing that the alleged victim was under 21. As explained by the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette on March 7, persons under the age of 21 are permitted to enter the bars but not drink. Those over the age of 21 wear a wristband. The nightclub at which the alleged incident occurred is believed to be "one of the stricter enforcers" of that policy. So if the alleged victim had testified that she wasn't wearing a wristband, that Roethlisberger gave her alcohol, and that she was close enough to Roethlisberger for him to see that she had no wristband, a conviction could have been obtained -- unless he were willing to take the stand in his own defense and testify that he didn't see that she didn't have a wristband.


this was nbc sports and explains unless he knew she was underage they could not prosecute him for this. also they said if that was the case and they wanted to charge roethlisberger with this misdameanor they would also have to charge the girl with underage drinking which is also a misdameanor....So what else you got for me?

It's still up to the bar to be responsible for that. The bar (if they have mixed ages) is 100% responsible for making sure that underage patrons are not drinking. That is of course, unless they are handing out wavers to every patron there stating that if they buy a drink for anyone not wearing a wristband that the person buying will be held responsible. It's not up to Ben to know that if she doesn't have a wristband on, she's not ok to drink. Plain and simple. This isn't his house he's serving drinks at, this is a private establishment that is responsible for its own patrons.

Sansi
04-21-2010, 01:57 PM
"Now, if we're going to prosecute one, we've got to prosecute the other. Let's talk about him furnishing alcohol to a minor under 21. The only way we can prosecute him is through her testimony. As for her, she's gone through enough already."

C'mon man.

steeldawg
04-21-2010, 01:57 PM
Do you seriously not understand that Bright is saying they did not prosecute Ben because they did not want to also prosecute the accuser?

They also said she would have to testify to underage drinking and they would have to prove he didnt know.

mtsamuelson
04-21-2010, 01:58 PM
If you hate him that much, pick another team or stop whining. Simple.

Still suffering?

You guys are hilarious. The Steelers are a TEAM that I root for. I don't root for the Steelers because Ben is on the team. Your statement makes no sense.

Sansi
04-21-2010, 01:59 PM
It's still up to the bar to be responsible for that. The bar (if they have mixed ages) is 100% responsible for making sure that underage patrons are not drinking. That is of course, unless they are handing out wavers to every patron there stating that if they buy a drink for anyone not wearing a wristband that the person buying will be held responsible. It's not up to Ben to know that if she doesn't have a wristband on, she's not ok to drink. Plain and simple. This isn't his house he's serving drinks at, this is a private establishment that is responsible for its own patrons.

According to the district attorney of the county this occurred the exact opposite of what you are saying is true.

steeldawg
04-21-2010, 01:59 PM
The fact is its not the law as you staed it was they would have to prove ben knew she was underage swhich brings me to my orinal statement of its not bens fault if he didnt know she was underage.

plenewken
04-21-2010, 02:00 PM
He should grow up and stop trying to take advantage of college kids...but I'm not sure she is telling the full truth.

I agree with you. She's not an angel but Ben is an @sshole who has twice demonstrated a tendency to predate on women.That's enough for me.
6 games is too much though. 4 would have been enough, and reduced to 2 after going through counseling.

SteveS
04-21-2010, 02:00 PM
I am so angry at the Steelers' FO right now. Just the IDEA of them wanting to trade Ben blows my mind and shows how idiotic they are for wanting to do this. This could also cause friction between them and Ben even if a trade does not happen to the point of him maybe DEMANDING a trade after next season or something like that. HORRIBLE HORRIBLE decision by the Rooneys. The Rooneys normally do the right thing, but not this time.

SteelCityMom
04-21-2010, 02:01 PM
Do you seriously not understand that Bright is saying they did not prosecute Ben because they did not want to also prosecute the accuser?


Do you seriously not understand that unless Ben had full disclosure on how the private bar runs its underage policies that he (Ben) is not responsible? There is no way to prosecute Ben on providing alcohol to a minor charges when the alcohol was poured and served by a private establishment who is responsible for its patrons.

And yes, I have owned and run a club/bar that had mixed age events...I know how the law works. By your own words, you obviously don't. Cut your losses and let it go.

Steelers>NFL
04-21-2010, 02:01 PM
I am so angry at the Steelers' FO right now. Just the IDEA of them wanting to trade Ben blows my mind and shows how idiotic they are for wanting to do this. This could also cause friction between them and Ben even if a trade does not happen to the point of him maybe DEMANDING a trade after next season or something like that. HORRIBLE HORRIBLE decision by the Rooneys. The Rooneys normally do the right thing, but not this time.
FO has not done anything yet. Let alone wrong!

DaPhonz
04-21-2010, 02:02 PM
The Steelers are a TEAM that I root for. I don't root for the Steelers because Ben is on the team.

:thumbsup:

Sansi
04-21-2010, 02:02 PM
They also said she would have to testify to underage drinking and they would have to prove he didnt know.

The article you quoted's sole existence is to refute that very claim made by one of the bodyguard's attorneys, Michael Santicola.

cloppbeast
04-21-2010, 02:02 PM
What does church have to do with Ben's actions? And how can one determine if he'll "take the same road" without giving him an opportunity?

Would you rather sale the farm now and wait another 5 or more years to find that diamond in the rough for a franchise QB?

"How" to know whether he will do the same thing is a tough question to answer - especially for us. We don't even know Ben, so we have no accurate way of determining his mindset. The Steeler's FO, on the other hand, does know Ben very well and is in a position to evaluate whether he'll do it again. There's no way of "knowing" whether he'll do it again any better than knowing anything else that will happen in the future. We get feelings about people and can generally tell by their demeanor whether they've changed or not. I don't think may people thought T.O. would change after leaving Philadelphia or San Francisco. Of course, they didn't know, but it's reasonable to evaluate the a troubled play to determine the likelihood of a continuance of the same behavior - no matter how good the player is. The Steeler's FO is in a position to do so. Of course, they won't know, but they'll have to make their best estimation. They might not make the right decision.

You said it yourself, though, if he messes up again, he's toast; so, either way, it's just as stupid to keep him and he puts himself in the same situation again as it is to trade him and he stays clean. We lose a great QB either way, but in the latter we at least get something in return. It's a tough call. I wouldn't want to be the person making this decision.

MACH1
04-21-2010, 02:02 PM
It's still up to the bar to be responsible for that. The bar (if they have mixed ages) is 100% responsible for making sure that underage patrons are not drinking. That is of course, unless they are handing out wavers to every patron there stating that if they buy a drink for anyone not wearing a wristband that the person buying will be held responsible. It's not up to Ben to know that if she doesn't have a wristband on, she's not ok to drink. Plain and simple. This isn't his house he's serving drinks at, this is a private establishment that is responsible for its own patrons.

Exactly.

We have a bar like that where minors can get in. It was shut down once because underage drinking was taking place. The fix : the bar has been divided in half with pony walls and gates. Youngsters on one side, adults with wrist bands or stamped hands on the other. Lot's of bouncers in between.

steeldawg
04-21-2010, 02:02 PM
Do you seriously not understand that unless Ben had full disclosure on how the private bar runs its underage policies that he (Ben) is not responsible? There is no way to prosecute Ben on providing alcohol to a minor charges when the alcohol was poured and served by a private establishment who is responsible for its patrons.

And yes, I have owned and run a club/bar that had mixed age events...I know how the law works. By your own words, you obviously don't. Cut your losses and let it go.

and i know you have because you already set me str8 when i tried to have a bar arguement with you :chuckle:

SteelCityMom
04-21-2010, 02:03 PM
According to the district attorney of the county this occurred the exact opposite of what you are saying is true.

Ummm....no it didn't. All the DA said was that they had no grounds to charge Ben with underage drinking and they felt that they didn't need to prosecute the girl because she had already been through enough. Also, it's hard to prove that a girl that had been to several bars that night got her drinks for only one establishment she had been to.

Steelers>NFL
04-21-2010, 02:03 PM
How ever long it takes to get Goodell pants down in a small bathroom. :sofunny:

plenewken
04-21-2010, 02:04 PM
:thumbsup:

Same here. I've been a Steelers fan long before Ben was drafted and I'll be a fan long after he's gone.

SteelCityMom
04-21-2010, 02:05 PM
Exactly.

We have a bar like that where minors can get in. It was shut down once because underage drinking was taking place. The fix : the bar has been divided in half with pony walls and gates. Youngsters on one side, adults with wrist bands or stamped hands on the other. Lot's of bouncers in between.

Exactly...that's how we used to run our place as well for mixed age events. Some people didn't like it, but I'll be damned if we were going to get into any trouble over a minor drinking.

fansince'76
04-21-2010, 02:05 PM
One thing I think is that us Ben supporters need to be more vocal. If some steeler fans are demanding e be traded and the FO is considering that, his suppoerters need to make a big deal about how mad they will be and how unforgiving (possibly threaten to boycott) if he IS traded. His supporters have been more quiet.

The say the fans have into what the FO does is miniscule at best (and thank God for that, IMO). Look at the Santo trade, which most were against as proof.

Sansi
04-21-2010, 02:05 PM
Ummm....no it didn't. All the DA said was that they had no grounds to charge Ben with underage drinking and they felt that they didn't need to prosecute the girl because she had already been through enough. Also, it's hard to prove that a girl that had been to several bars that night got her drinks for only one establishment she had been to.

How are we all looking at the same quotes, from the same guy, and "she, the victim, there's another crime called underage drinking. Both of these crimes are misdemeanors. Now, if we're going to prosecute one, we've got to prosecute the other." is so unclear to folks?

Shoes
04-21-2010, 02:05 PM
I am so angry at the Steelers' FO right now. Just the IDEA of them wanting to trade Ben blows my mind and shows how idiotic they are for wanting to do this. This could also cause friction between them and Ben even if a trade does not happen to the point of him maybe DEMANDING a trade after next season or something like that. HORRIBLE HORRIBLE decision by the Rooneys. The Rooneys normally do the right thing, but not this time.

Rooneys are "idiotic"? It's great to know we have people on this FORUM who know more about football and the business of football than the Rooneys who have been doing it for 77 years!.......and doing it very well I might add! :coffee:

steeldawg
04-21-2010, 02:06 PM
The article you quoted's sole existence is to refute that very claim made by one of the bodyguard's attorneys, Michael Santicola.

He never claims roethlisberger knew she was underage when this took place he obviously knows shes underage now as we all do. He also says the only crime he can see that took place was by the girl for underage drinking. that doesnt mean ben knew about it.

wiz1120
04-21-2010, 02:06 PM
THIS JUST IN!!!


The Steelers can guarantee top ten picks in the next five drafts if they trade Ben!!!!

So, if you really want to rebuild, what's better than trading two of your best players, game changers, and super bowl heros?

Seriuosly though, if they really want to get top ten picks, they will have it.

Be careful what you wish for Rooneys, if you trade Ben, you might just get it.

steeldawg
04-21-2010, 02:08 PM
How are we all looking at the same quotes, from the same guy, and "she, the victim, there's another crime called underage drinking. Both of these crimes are misdemeanors. Now, if we're going to prosecute one, we've got to prosecute the other." is so unclear to folks?

Yes that would be the situation but first they would have to prove it meaning she would have to testify she was drinking underage and that ben was aware she was underage

SteelCityMom
04-21-2010, 02:08 PM
and i know you have because you already set me str8 when i tried to have a bar arguement with you :chuckle:

And you know what...maybe Georgia has slightly different laws, but I can't imagine them being that far apart.

It's just a simple fact that Ben defense attorneys would have a field day with charge of serving alcohol to a minor when the act occurred in a private establishment. Is there a possibility he knew and did it anyway? Of course, but it would be an extremely difficult thing to prosecute...and even if he did know, I'm not sure that the bar wouldn't be held liable for the act occurring as well.

SteelCityMom
04-21-2010, 02:10 PM
How are we all looking at the same quotes, from the same guy, and "she, the victim, there's another crime called underage drinking. Both of these crimes are misdemeanors. Now, if we're going to prosecute one, we've got to prosecute the other." is so unclear to folks?

We are looking at the same quote...and yes, both are misdemeanors, but as I've said, it's near impossible to prove that Ben knew that she was underage. And I have the feeling that the DA didn't prosecute the girl for underage drinking because, as he said, she'd been through enough...or he didn't want to waste his time on it and/or come across as a total D-bag for prosecuting a girl who claimed to have been sexually assaulted. PR move on his part.

WindyCitySteelerFan
04-21-2010, 02:12 PM
Ultimately, I suppose in the NFL:

You can be incarcerated (Michael Vick) for two years, and only get a 2 game suspension.

You can murder two people (Ray Lewis) and be right back to playing football without any suspension

You can tweet about getting high, and get busted with drugs (Santonio Holmes) and get a 4 game suspension

But, god forbid, someone "claim" you did something, and never get charged..... . Well, thats a 6 game suspension..

Curtain_of_Steel
04-21-2010, 02:13 PM
Colts won't suspend their player, will the NFL?


http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=5122609

SteveS
04-21-2010, 02:13 PM
FO has not done anything yet. Let alone wrong!

I know that no trade has happened yet, but Shefter has confirmed that they have made CALLS and OFFERED a trade to 7 teams. The Rams turned down the deal thank goodness. Do you realise that had they said yes, then Ben would already be gone?!?!?! Do you not realise how stupid of a move that is by our FO?!?!?!

Sansi
04-21-2010, 02:15 PM
And you know what...maybe Georgia has slightly different laws, but I can't imagine them being that far apart.

It's just a simple fact that Ben defense attorneys would have a field day with charge of serving alcohol to a minor when the act occurred in a private establishment. Is there a possibility he knew and did it anyway? Of course, but it would be an extremely difficult thing to prosecute...and even if he did know, I'm not sure that the bar wouldn't be held liable for the act occurring as well.

And this whole entangled conversation started because I said this was one of the issues Goodell got really hung up on. Like me, and most people, he saw bBen in a place where the chances were extremely high that the girls in the club were between 18 and 20 and like most laws, his ignorance to the true date of birth of the accuser means squat.

As a male going out to a bar, again, I would be certifiably insane to go to a college bar, where 18 year olds are allowed, and begin throwing shots around. lots of guys Ben's age are truly baffled he did not know this, or ignored this.

I am positive you have a lot of experience running your bar, and that you took every step to ensure everyone was served responsibly. That is what good owners do. Margins are tight - every cost matters - one charge can crush your business. i think the simple case is that the bar is not charged because neither one of them was charged. The bar is not mentioned, save in people's blogs asking why nothing happened there. I guess discovery found that they followed every applicable law with their wristbands (stamps, highlighters, whatever else they may use). Who knows. Goodell is not at all out of line in citing the alcohol as a failure on Ben's part. In this day and age it is "guys 101"

SteelPride1207
04-21-2010, 02:15 PM
Anyone that has ever been to a college bar, got drunk, picked up a girl for xxx and now supports Ben R being suspended and/or calling for him to be traded... is a hypocrite.

Unless there is ANY evidence (outside of the inconsistent testimony given by a drunk girl who chased him around bars and promoted DTF) supporting that ANYTHING illegal occuring...then this whole response and support for punishment is GARBAGE.

Two points to the "hang Ben R Club":

1st) You might as well quit your job and go picket every single college bar in the United States

2nd) Since all of you in the "hang Ben R Club" are Steelers fans (sincerely)...then my suggestion is for all of you to chip in and pay for a girl to hang out at bars frequented by the best players of our upcoming opponents, have them make UNSUBSTANTIATED sexual assault ALLEGATIONS against them...so they Mr. Ethics Roger (Spygate) Goodell can suspend them for the games against us.

:coffee:

Merchant
04-21-2010, 02:15 PM
LOL.. naw seriously though, if he misses time in training camp that's big. He needs to get reps if he's gonna be missing atleast the first 4 games of the season

steelerdude15
04-21-2010, 02:16 PM
:frown:

lamberts-lost-tooth
04-21-2010, 02:17 PM
Steelers have called seven teams about Roethlisberger
4/21/2010 1:41:22 PM


The Pittsburgh Steelers have called the Rams, 49ers, Raiders, Bills, Jaguars, Seahawks and Browns about a possible trade for QB Ben Roethlisberger. This according to Adam Schefter of ESPN.

So far, the only teams contacted with no interest in Roethlisberger are the Rams and the Bills. There may be others.
http://www.theredzone.org/BlogDescription/tabid/61/EntryId/5582/Steelers-have-called-seven-teams-about-Roethlisberger/Default.aspx

solardave
04-21-2010, 02:20 PM
I am so angry at the Steelers' FO right now. Just the IDEA of them wanting to trade Ben blows my mind and shows how idiotic they are for wanting to do this. This could also cause friction between them and Ben even if a trade does not happen to the point of him maybe DEMANDING a trade after next season or something like that. HORRIBLE HORRIBLE decision by the Rooneys. The Rooneys normally do the right thing, but not this time.

What a Raven and Cowboy mentallity. 500 and some pages in a report that none of us have seen brought this on. Not the Steelers. BUT WINNING IS EVERYTHING!!!! I heard this BS when I lived in Dallas and Nate Newton and Irvin were always in trouble.That's why I hate the COWBOY'S AND THEIR FANS!!!! BUT CAN THEY PLAY ON SUNDAY??? We all need to face the fact that as good as he's been he needs to put his use disgression with women and grow up!!! Hopefully he'll do it in a Steeler uniform and go on to be the second Steeler QB in the HOF. If he doesn't then don't let the door hit you in the ass BEN!!! There has been great ones before you and you'll not be the last!!

SteelCityMom
04-21-2010, 02:20 PM
And this whole entangled conversation started because I said this was one of the issues Goodell got really hung up on. Like me, and most people, he saw bBen in a place where the chances were extremely high that the girls in the club were between 18 and 20 and like most laws, his ignorance to the true date of birth of the accuser means squat.

As a male going out to a bar, again, I would be certifiably insane to go to a college bar, where 18 year olds are allowed, and begin throwing shots around. lots of guys Ben's age are truly baffled he did not know this, or ignored this.

I am positive you have a lot of experience running your bar, and that you took every step to ensure everyone was served responsibly. That is what good owners do. Margins are tight - every cost matters - one charge can crush your business. i think the simple case is that the bar is not charged because neither one of them was charged. The bar is not mentioned, save in people's blogs asking why nothing happened there. I guess discovery found that they followed every applicable law with their wristbands (stamps, highlighters, whatever else they may use). Who knows. Goodell is not at all out of line in citing the alcohol as a failure on Ben's part. In this day and age it is "guys 101"

I don't disagree with you on this. Of course he's an idiot for being out at a college bar, especially with his status. One thing I will say though is that every bar in Georgia allows 18+ to enter the bar with 21+ being legal to drink. So in all honesty, it wouldn't matter which bar he went to in Georgia...he'd run the same risk of buying a drink for an underage girl. That's why I'm positive it's up to the bars to keep tabs on what their patrons are doing.

solardave
04-21-2010, 02:21 PM
wont be so perfect if we are 1-3 going into the bye

I'll take 1-3 if he turns it around off the field!!

wootawnee
04-21-2010, 02:21 PM
They will be the same 60% who are whining and crying when the Steelers can't pass the ball any longer.

This franchise is a mess.

I want Dan Rooney back.

Yea.....Dan is the man..........If they trade Ben, I might just become a Raider fan.........What happend to turn to the other cheek, and help our children go the good way, instead of banishing them of the truth ,and the rightous path...........Ben needs help, not bannished...........Would you bannish your own brother?.......Well Jesus was bannished from life, so I guess it would not surprise me.......But I think it is the wrong thing to do..........The kid just needs some support on getting to the rightous way......The first thing that he needs to acknowledge is that he does have problems.........Denial is the only way deeper into this hole.............Help him see the light............Lead him to the rightous path.......And help him understand himself and his neighbors.......

RoethlisBURGHer
04-21-2010, 02:22 PM
No. It is not the bar's responsibility. Is it the supermarket's responsibility if I buy beer for a 16 year old? The answer is no. Ben purchased the alcohol. You can't put this on anyone else, and he is not deflecting that blame. At the very least, he is at fault for that. To say anything less is turning a total blind eye to the entire situation.

Actually, I work at a gas station. I sell alcohol on a daily basis. One of my good friends is a bartender.

Here is how it works:

If you go to a store that sells alcohol, I am only responsible for the person buying the alcohol. What they do with said alcohol once leaving the property is not my responsibility. I do not serve it, I sell it in a closed and sealed container. So if I sell it to someone old enough to buy it, they take it home and give some to their 17 year old brother, I am not liable for that.

A bar serves you alcohol to drink on premises. It is given to you in an open bottle, can, or poured into a glass. It is the job of the person serving the alcohol to make sure everyone drinking is of age, because it is served to the individual. When I go to the bar with my one friend as the designated driver, I order a soda and I still get carded because my friend ordered a beer.

It is the responsibility of the establishment serving alcohol to make sure that the consumption is done only by those that are legal to do so. If I were to walk into a bar and see a girl drinking an alcoholic beverage, it is safe for me to assume that she is legal and I can purchase her a drink without being arrested. The bartender would be arrested for serving alcohol to someone underage, not me.

Also, the girl had a fake ID. Have you ever seen a fake ID? There is a reason a good one costs a ton more than it costs me to get my actual license at the local DMV, most people can't even tell that it's a fake. I have a book by the register that had photos of all valid ID's from every state in this country, every United States Territory, military ID's, and United States passports. I compared an ID that was fake to what was in my book and everything looked the same. So if I can't tell a fake ID from a real one with a reference guide, how would Ben Roethlisberger be able to do so without one if he were to have looked at her fake ID.

WH
04-21-2010, 02:22 PM
Yep, and I slept with Jessica Alba and Megan Fox last night. It's true, just because I say so.

Soooo....how were my sloppy seconds. you have to believe me because I said it's true.

steeldawg
04-21-2010, 02:24 PM
And this whole entangled conversation started because I said this was one of the issues Goodell got really hung up on. Like me, and most people, he saw bBen in a place where the chances were extremely high that the girls in the club were between 18 and 20 and like most laws, his ignorance to the true date of birth of the accuser means squat.

As a male going out to a bar, again, I would be certifiably insane to go to a college bar, where 18 year olds are allowed, and begin throwing shots around. lots of guys Ben's age are truly baffled he did not know this, or ignored this.

I am positive you have a lot of experience running your bar, and that you took every step to ensure everyone was served responsibly. That is what good owners do. Margins are tight - every cost matters - one charge can crush your business. i think the simple case is that the bar is not charged because neither one of them was charged. The bar is not mentioned, save in people's blogs asking why nothing happened there. I guess discovery found that they followed every applicable law with their wristbands (stamps, highlighters, whatever else they may use). Who knows. Goodell is not at all out of line in citing the alcohol as a failure on Ben's part. In this day and age it is "guys 101"

Bad situation he put him self in is a valid arguement but citing it as one of the main reasons for a 6 game suspension i think is crazy. The whole six game suspension is over kill and if the media involvment is minimal than its probably a 2 game at the most if any. This suspension is terrible not just for ben for the rest of the league.

Steelers>NFL
04-21-2010, 02:24 PM
I know that no trade has happened yet, but Shefter has confirmed that they have made CALLS and OFFERED a trade to 7 teams. The Rams turned down the deal thank goodness. Do you realise that had they said yes, then Ben would already be gone?!?!?! Do you not realise how stupid of a move that is by our FO?!?!?!
I would not like it one bit. But I would support the Rooneys if they do trade BB.
I was a Steeler fan long, long before BB's arrival. I will be one when he is gone.
Wether it is today or years from now. :tt:

steelerdude15
04-21-2010, 02:25 PM
I really hope he doesn't get traded, I'd by so upset.

WindyCitySteelerFan
04-21-2010, 02:26 PM
This is completely nuts. I can't believe this is even being talked about.

Steel_Bus_24
04-21-2010, 02:27 PM
I love the Steelers and what Rooneys have done but I will not say they're doing the right thing in regards to handling Bens problems

Why the need for press conferences?? and leaks about being "disgusted" and trade talk

The negative fans are usually the loudest and most active in getting their point across, IMO the way the Rooneyes/Goodell have reacted to all this sensationalism has only made the media hungrier to poke and prod for something more sensational

the escalation this has risen to is just absurd

It just creates a circus that is bound to rub someone on the team the wrong way....

Sansi
04-21-2010, 02:27 PM
On the subject of fake ID's. I realize this is not relevant at all to the situation, but my good friend is what I consider an expert. His take is this:

If there is even the whisper of doubt in your mind, you ask for another form of ID. Now this is from the perspective of a floor manager, who trains and manages guys who check IDs all night every night. But where he works, one slip up gets you fired. You should be so careful so as to be classified as "paranoid."

Anyway that is a tangent.

Men of Steel
04-21-2010, 02:28 PM
Rooneys are "idiotic"? It's great to know we have people on this FORUM who know more about football and the business of football than the Rooneys who have been doing it for 77 years!.......and doing it very well I might add! :coffee:

^exactly.

the rooneys KNOW what they are doing. no player is bigger than this team. not as long as the rooneys run things. if bens gotta go. he goes. period. we move on.

Sharkissle29
04-21-2010, 02:29 PM
And where did 6-2 start last season get the Steelers???

playing the odds game here....you're way more likely to make the playoffs at 6-2

Polamalu43
04-21-2010, 02:30 PM
wow i can't believe some steeler fans are actually in favor of trading Ben...

if ben does get traded, hope you guys enjoy us not being legit in years 2 come..

Bottom line, Ben should not get traded im sooo Furious right now at the FO

Gnutella
04-21-2010, 02:31 PM
Maybe the Rooneys are bluffing so they can tell the overreactionary segment of the fan base, "Hey, we tried to trade him, but nobody would take him, so shut the **** up and deal with it!"

stlrtruck
04-21-2010, 02:31 PM
You said it yourself, though, if he messes up again, he's toast; so, either way, it's just as stupid to keep him and he puts himself in the same situation again as it is to trade him and he stays clean. We lose a great QB either way, but in the latter we at least get something in return. It's a tough call. I wouldn't want to be the person making this decision.

Now this couldn't have been said any better!

Men of Steel
04-21-2010, 02:34 PM
wow....

ladies and gentlemen, ben WILL be gone before the season starts.

thank you.
:doh:

fansince'76
04-21-2010, 02:34 PM
Also, the girl had a fake ID. Have you ever seen a fake ID? There is a reason a good one costs a ton more than it costs me to get my actual license at the local DMV, most people can't even tell that it's a fake. I have a book by the register that had photos of all valid ID's from every state in this country, every United States Territory, military ID's, and United States passports. I compared an ID that was fake to what was in my book and everything looked the same. So if I can't tell a fake ID from a real one with a reference guide, how would Ben Roethlisberger be able to do so without one if he were to have looked at her fake ID.

Actually, a sworn affidavit affirming age will be part of the new 20-page waiver Ben will now be requiring of every member of the opposite gender he wants to become intimate with. He is currently looking for a notary public to become part of his "posse." :chuckle:

lamberts-lost-tooth
04-21-2010, 02:34 PM
I dont hate Ben. I am however dissapointed in him. I think the majority of fans probably feel the same way.

That being said I have to admit that I have a sense of pride in the Rooneys attention to principle. Ben is a "part" that is not bigger than the "whole". To be honest...I would rather suffer a period of adjustment without Ben...then to be dissapoointed in a persona that I have always associated with the Steelers organization.

If Ben stays...He needs to get it together.
If he goes...well...I am a bigger fan of the Steelers than I am a fan of Ben.

Others can have their opinions and I respect that...this is just the way I feel.

mikeyg
04-21-2010, 02:35 PM
that's the same 60% that voted for Obama, including Rooney

BlastFurnace
04-21-2010, 02:36 PM
If the Steelers actually called the Browns.....this team is more of a mess than I imagined.

Shoes
04-21-2010, 02:37 PM
wow i can't believe some steeler fans are actually in favor of trading Ben...

if ben does get traded, hope you guys enjoy us not being legit in years 2 come..

Bottom line, Ben should not get traded im sooo Furious right now at the FO

:toofunny::toofunny: I've been a fan since the early 1960's...and your concerned about being legit for a few years? NO player is above the TEAM. I am 100% with the Rooneys on whatever decision they make.

GodfatherofSoul
04-21-2010, 02:38 PM
Pretty hard to believe that all those "cuts and bruises and bleeding" are what that article says they are as the doc won't say a rape occurred, nor are charges being filed. I call BS. She friggin' followed him around like a puppy 'til she got what she wanted.

Men of Steel
04-21-2010, 02:38 PM
I dont hate Ben. I am however dissapointed in him. I think the majority of fans probably feel the same way.

That being said I have to admit that I have a sense of pride in the Rooneys attention to principle. Ben is a "part" that is not bigger than the "whole". To be honest...I would rather suffer a period of adjustment without Ben...then to be dissapoointed in a persona that I have always associated with the Steelers organization.

If Ben stays...He needs to get it together.
If he goes...well...I am a bigger fan of the Steelers than I am a fan of Ben.

Others can have their opinions and I respect that...this is just the way I feel.

very well said. thank you.
finally, good to know some ppl still have a need to make sense.

zulater
04-21-2010, 02:38 PM
If Ben hasn't ever commited an act of sexual assualt he should go on the offensive and start to get his side of the story out. I don't care if his lawyers would advise him against it, it 's his life and it's getting destroyed as a result of him being convincted in the court of public opinion. What good is going uncharged if you're life is destroyed in the proccess?

If I was Ben and I was innocent I would also appeal Goodell's suspension and take it to appelate court when Goodell refuses to budge off his intial punishment. I know he told the Steelers he would comply with reasonable punishment, but two things change that.

1. 6 games is beyond reason for an "offense" that didn't amount to enough to bring about criminal charges.

2. If it's true the Steelers are currently shopping Ben then it's they who have betrayed Ben's trust, and he owes them nothing in the sense of rolling over for a good(ell) f###ing. :mad:

Speak up Ben speak up!!!:banging:

Men of Steel
04-21-2010, 02:39 PM
:toofunny::toofunny: I've been a fan since the early 1960's...and your concerned about being legit for a few years? NO player is above the TEAM. I am 100% with the Rooneys on whatever decision they make.

:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:


:tt03:

Polamalu43
04-21-2010, 02:39 PM
:toofunny::toofunny: I've been a fan since the early 1960's...and your concerned about a few years? NO player is above the TEAM. I am 100% with the Rooneys on whatever decision they make.


Can you Sir explain to me where in my post i said anything about us not being good for 2 years?? you might wanna read it over..:applaudit:

AndyWitmyer
04-21-2010, 02:40 PM
Look, in the past, the Rooney's have released players FOR MUCH LESS than what Ben has been accused of - and not just what he's accused of, but for what he's KNOWN for! Whether he was innocent or guilty in the latest assault issue is irrelevant - Ben's character has obviously been a huge liability for the Steelers and for the Rooneys - an organization that has historically VALUED good character traits above that of almost all other things.

Let's face it, Ben has become a serious integrity issue. At first I was very opposed the idea of trading Ben, but you know at the same time, I don't want our team to become known as a haven for low-lifers. It pains me to think of Ben as unsavory, but he's done very little to prove me otherwise.

DFWSTEELERFAN
04-21-2010, 02:40 PM
I will be devastated if they get rid of Ben.. He is one in a million QB.....

It would be a mistake to deal him...
:banging:

Steel_Bus_24
04-21-2010, 02:41 PM
WoW did I not tell ya that Madden Cover crap is real


this is like a nightmare

BlastFurnace
04-21-2010, 02:41 PM
Who knows. Maybe. If they're going to do it, I just want them to get it over with so we can all see that whether Ben is our QB or not, the world will not end. I don't think it would be particularly smart to trade him either, but we have GOT to get out of this mentality of "OMG, it took 25 years since the last time we had an elite QB, so obviously it'll take at least another 25 years to find the next one."

Well ... no. Franchise QBs are by no means easy to find, but I think we were also extremely unlucky over that time period, and made some bad mistakes. We had one guy (Malone) who was the heir apparent but got injured and was never the same ... we passed up a number of potential QBs who would've been good enough ... and we would spend way too long sticking with guys who were were hoping would "pan out," when all along it ought to have been obvious that they were marginal stopgap players and we should've continued to look for a real answer in the meantime -- not go two or three years with Bubby Brister or Mike Tomczak or Jim Miller as Plan A for the future.

Anyway, what I'm trying to say is, even if we lost/gave up on Ben, I don't think it would be nearly as bleak as some people think. And I think this team could be a legitimate Super Bowl contender with even a mere above-average QB. Defense was what won it for us in 2008 -- yes, I know, a great offensive play was the defining moment of the game itself -- but let's face it, for the vast majority of the year, our offense was about as smooth and efficient as a gravel truck with a broken axle. We were winning games 16-10 and 12-9, and we could do it again if the defense shows up, which is really the key to the whole thing anyway. If the defense is so-so, the offense could be as good as we want and the team would still struggle (see: last year). So please, let's not let the "OMG 25 Years w/o a QB" argument cloud all our judgment, eh?

I see your point, but this is a team that can't pass block, can't run block, can't run the ball because of that, has an aging defense...especially weak at CB, traded away it's biggest playmaker on offense, and has the absolute worst ST in the entire league.

And yes, we are getting Troy and Aaron back this year. They are also the two most injury prone guys on the defense. What if Troy goes down again....which is entirely possible.

Sorry, but I'm not seeing the glass as half full right now. I'm seeing it about 3/4ths empty.

Men of Steel
04-21-2010, 02:42 PM
If the Steelers actually called the Browns.....this team is more of a mess than I imagined.

maybe the rooneys are soo pissd off at ben,
theyll allow him in the AFC North just to have a chance to kick his ass twice a year....

:noidea:

zulater
04-21-2010, 02:42 PM
Ben and Georgia Girl should both take lie detector tests.

Question, since no charges were filed could the GBI come back in a year and say ''we've found more evidence, we're pressing charges''?

I can't remember the exact quote, but Bright indicated there was no possibility of charges being brought against Ben in this case now or in the future.

And I like your idea. If Ben didn't commit a crime it's time for him to go on the offensive and get out his side of the story.

fansince'76
04-21-2010, 02:42 PM
"Calling the Browns" kinda makes me question the veracity of it.

Any actual legitimacy to these stories, or just Twitter rumors?

Shoes
04-21-2010, 02:43 PM
Can you Sir explain to me where in my post i said anything about us not being good for 2 years?? you might wanna read it over..:applaudit:

If you look at the time of the post, you will see it was corrected before you posted your response!

Steel_Bus_24
04-21-2010, 02:43 PM
I will be devastated if they get rid of Ben.. He is one in a million QB.....

It would be a mistake to deal him...
:banging:

and Id bet ya we wouldn't get Cutler value


man wtf!!! Don't Trade Ben :banging:

Nevermore
04-21-2010, 02:44 PM
I know that I'm going to get lashback for being a Ravens fan, but I find this discussion interesting as an NFL thing and not a Steelers thing (although I will be happy if we don't have to face ben in week 4).

The main issue here is this has nothing to do with his criminal guilt or innocence, but his overall image and the impact his actions have on the "product" of the NFL. Honestly, he is not "innocent" in the sense of doing nothing. If he was, there wouldn't be a media storm, DA press conferences and legal documents. There was some validity to the story, but obviously not enough to criminally prosecute. Now, does he deserve 6? Probably not. But he does deserve something since Goodell put forth a conduct policy that his employees are expected to follow. Is it illegal for you to go to work drunk tomorrow morning? No. But your boss isn't going to be too happy and will most likely take action. Same situation.

Is it fair across the league? Maybe, maybe not. Santo got hit by the NFL AND the Rooney's for a pattern of behavior. Ray Lewis got nothing because that was a different time, different commish, and different rules. Was it fair? No. Stallworth was suspended for a year for his vehicular manslaughter, a terrible event, but one he thankfully acted like a man in and took complete responsibility for. His legal deal is something that obviously can be debated elsewhere. Vick got off easy because he was in jail for 2 years.

I think ultimately Ben will be back at the end of week 4 and will be fine. However he does need to realize he isn't a college kid anymore and his decisions have consequences. If you get burned when you put your hand in the fire, maybe you should stop doing it.

Take up religion like Ray Ray!!! (that one is just to get you all fired up!!:sofunny::rofl:

Just my $.02 Here's to a good season! See ya'll week 4! :drink:

Steelerroy
04-21-2010, 02:44 PM
I'm completly torn on this. If he's guilty I don't want him on the team but if not then Hell no do I want to trade him. He's a great young superstar.Problem is we will probably never know what's true or lies.I believe if they're trying to trade him then there has to be more that they know that the public doesnt. Even with the suspension(which more then likely will be reduced) doesn't it seem odd that teams aren't jumping all over him?? Teams seem not to trust him, should we??

Steelers>NFL
04-21-2010, 02:45 PM
If Ben hasn't ever commited an act of sexual assualt he should go on the offensive and start to get his side of the story out. I don't care if his lawyers would advise him against it, it 's his life and it's getting destroyed as a result of him being convincted in the court of public opinion. What good is going uncharged if you're life is destroyed in the proccess?

If I was Ben and I was innocent I would also appeal Goodell's suspension and take it to appelate court when Goodell refuses to budge off his intial punishment. I know he told the Steelers he would comply with reasonable punishment, but two things change that.

1. 6 games is beyond reason for an "offense" that didn't amount to enough to bring about criminal charges.

2. If it's true the Steelers are currently shopping Ben then it's they who have betrayed Ben's trust, and he owes them nothing in the sense of rolling over for a good(ell) f###ing.

Speak up Ben speak up!!!
He spoke - with herman the one-eyed german! :sofunny:

BlastFurnace
04-21-2010, 02:45 PM
:toofunny::toofunny: I've been a fan since the early 1960's...and your concerned about being legit for a few years? NO player is above the TEAM. I am 100% with the Rooneys on whatever decision they make.

Were you saying the same thing in the 90's when the Steelers let all their FA's leave for nothing.

The Rooney's are far from perfect. If they trade Ben, they will demonstrate that once again.

Florida_Steelers_Fan
04-21-2010, 02:45 PM
hold the fort during the first six games and then go from there. you're going to get pennies on the dollar for ben right now.

you never make a trade out of coercion...which is exactly why the holmes trade was stupid too.

Sharkissle29
04-21-2010, 02:46 PM
"Calling the Browns" kinda makes me question the veracity of it.

Any actual legitimacy to these stories, or just Twitter rumors?

Twitter or not, Schefter has proved to be a very reliable NFL source...

Florida_Steelers_Fan
04-21-2010, 02:47 PM
i suggested the Browns a week ago (albeit jokingly)...honestly, i'm not surprised. this isn't the '70's anymore...

wdsteel
04-21-2010, 02:47 PM
didnt see it posted but this is what it will cost ben..
http://espn.go.com/blog/afcnorth/post/_/id/11927/big-ben-could-lose-millions-via-suspension

think he needs a cheaper hobby..

AndyWitmyer
04-21-2010, 02:48 PM
@steelerroy - Exactly. I think the Rooney's know more than we do. If they're this serious about unloading Ben, his problems might run much deeper than any of us ever imagined. The Rooneys are very wise in these matters - I think we ought to trust in their decision, no matter what it is. If they keep Ben, then we know they have faith in ben's ability to turn his life around - if they get rid of him, then I think its safe to say that no matter how talented he is, Ben wouldn't be worth the trouble.

GodfatherofSoul
04-21-2010, 02:48 PM
A crowd of friends from college are hotel managers downtown. They've had lots of pro teams come through (playing the Chiefs) and it's practically an orgy when women find out a crowd of guys is in the NFL. I know a chick from college who put out for some scrub who just *said* he was a pro player (he made up a totally BS position just to **** w/ her like 3rd down punter).

These scenarios are NOT new. They've happened before and they will happen again. This stupid suspension just put a bullseye on the backs of every player in the league. All these 15-minute fame-hungry skanks now know they have a bargaining chip to dangle over a player's head should the evening not go their way.

This whole ordeal has got me fuming. All I want Goodell to explain is exactly *what* did Ben do to get suspended? Don't give me that "detrimental conduct" crap. Explain *exactly* what he did wrong. Have sex? Do it behind closed doors in a bar? Should he wait until marriage?

BigBen2WardPITT
04-21-2010, 02:48 PM
if people really want to argue that we shouldn't question the Rooneys trading Ben, you're insane. The kid has won two super bowls with us. Trading him would put us into years of rebuilding mode. It would be flat out stupid.

Let's look back at when Cowher and Rooney and Co. decided keeping Kordell Stewart for way too long was the smart thing to do. It left our franchise a stand still for years because we kept on giving a pretty terrible quarterback a shot. We were lucky that Maddox just fell into our laps and saved our team for two years before our team FINALLY wised up and drafted a QB.

Anyways, Do I want our team to be a bunch of classy guys? Sure, but it's not really possible. The NFL today is full of a bunch of idiots, in my opinion, I don't really care what they do off the field, all I care about is that they play good football. Maybe this is just me being disillusioned after watching Ray Lewis kill a guy and won MVP the same year. But there really isn't a team in the NFL today that doesn't have at least one or two guys that act out off the field. Therefore, i've come to deal with it, and really, not care too much about it. Athletes shouldn't be looked to as heros, really. Come on, most of these guys didn't finish college, they're not heros.

I also have the problem with this all of a sudden caring about the character of our team. Back in the 90's, the Steelers were known as a pretty classy team for the most part. However, lately that has changed because of two or three (Holmes, Ben, Jeff Reed) bad seeds. What has occured since this latest revelation is that we should trade 2 of our best players (Holmes and possibly Ben). I mean, we've had some guys lately that aren't exactly the face of good character (Joey Porter, etc.), and we didn't really do anything about them (we let Porter go because he was old and not worth the money, not so much his character).

Not to mention, Ben was dropped of all charges. Making this suspension even stranger (I get that you have to suspend him, but 6 weeks?)

just my 2 cents.

BigBen2WardPITT
04-21-2010, 02:50 PM
@steelerroy - Exactly. I think the Rooney's know more than we do. If they're this serious about unloading Ben, his problems might run much deeper than any of us ever imagined. The Rooneys are very wise in these matters - I think we ought to trust in their decision, no matter what it is. If they keep Ben, then we know they have faith in ben's ability to turn his life around - if they get rid of him, then I think its safe to say that no matter how talented he is, Ben wouldn't be worth the trouble.

BOW DOWN TO THE ROONEYS....

bull shit. If they knew "more than we did" we would know about it. We would hear about locker room problems, etc.

If that comes out, fine. But until then, this just looks stupid.


hold the fort during the first six games and then go from there. you're going to get pennies on the dollar for ben right now.

you never make a trade out of coercion...which is exactly why the holmes trade was stupid too.

Agreed.

zulater
04-21-2010, 02:50 PM
So a doctor who examined her could not say if she was raped but you can from reading that sentence, wow your good

And were supposed to believe a rape kit executed within hours of an alleged crime couldn't produce enough DNA markers to generate a profile that could be matched to an assailant.

I read a story last week where they identified the 60+ year old remains of a sailor killed at Pearl Harbour off DNA obtained from dried saliva collected off a stamp back from a letter he sent to his mother the day before the attack.

Yet here we're expected to believe they proccessed DNA that night that they could determine was male, but they couldn't detemine whether it could have been Ben's so they didn't bother to ask him for a sample? Right....

Try this as more likely, young missy knew it was male DNA but knew it wasn't Ben's and so did Bright and the GBI, that's why they never asked Ben for a sample.

Shoes
04-21-2010, 02:50 PM
Were you saying the same thing in the 90's when the Steelers let all their FA's leave for nothing.

The Rooney's are far from perfect. If they trade Ben, they will demonstrate that once again.

Rooneys far from perfect ? maybe. But where does that place us on the scale of football/business skills?

stlrtruck
04-21-2010, 02:51 PM
Twitter or not, Schefter has proved to be a very reliable NFL source...

You mean he occassionally get something right and he wants to parade around like he's more knowing than say the FO of any team?

OX1947
04-21-2010, 02:51 PM
Ben is too much of a coward to speak up. That's why his last two press conferences had to be hand written for him because he has no talent in communication in real life situations. If someone was accusing me of assault, you better guarendamnttee I would be speaking up. But then again, I wouldn't bang a hotel clerk in my hotel room or some skank in a bar bathroom. Never trust a female when it comes to sexual activity unless she is your wife. Girls interpret things in their own planet in their heads. Especially ones you don't know. Then again, for all we know, Ben could be into freaking disgusting crap. I don't know.

Acerinox
04-21-2010, 02:51 PM
The Steelers remain open to dealing Roethlisberger, but they want decent value in return. Given the six-game suspension and the limited interest in Roethlisberger, team sources now view a deal as extremely remote, if not impossible. They never viewed it as likely from the onset, but they were extremely open to it.

Seems excellent PR to me.
Rooneys knew they would take media flak over this. Hard. Were getting a bad name.
Have to be SEEN to be doing something. So they are. Being SEEN to do something. This is VERY visible.
I could try and sell my car - but not if I asked a million pounds for it.
But that having been said... if someone offered me a million pounds, I'd take it!


PS - I strongly suspect "plan B" is not Bradford but Tebow.

AndyWitmyer
04-21-2010, 02:53 PM
I think the Rooneys know something about Ben that we don't. It's highly possible that they've come to the decision that criminal charges, accidents, and suspensions may become a, increasingly prevalent issue for Ben in the coming years that maybe its just not worth it for the team to take the kind of hit in integrity that they're going take for it.

BritishSteel
04-21-2010, 02:53 PM
I dont hate Ben. I am however dissapointed in him. I think the majority of fans probably feel the same way.

That being said I have to admit that I have a sense of pride in the Rooneys attention to principle. Ben is a "part" that is not bigger than the "whole". To be honest...I would rather suffer a period of adjustment without Ben...then to be dissapoointed in a persona that I have always associated with the Steelers organization.

If Ben stays...He needs to get it together.
If he goes...well...I am a bigger fan of the Steelers than I am a fan of Ben.

Others can have their opinions and I respect that...this is just the way I feel.

:applaudit:

My feelings exactly. Personally I doubt we trade Ben, but if we do, well then we do.

pepsyman1
04-21-2010, 02:53 PM
I think Ben's behavior show's a huge lack of maturity and judgement, BUT I don't think the Steelers have done anything previously to really address it and make Ben aware of how serious they take it. To turn around now and start looking to trade him is a mistake, I know the Rooney's take their organization's reputation very seriously, but someone should have taken Ben by the scruff of the neck after the motorcycle accident, sat him down and explained to him his responsibilities to the image of the team and then given him some type of consequence after the FIRST allegation. To skip over those steps and just try to trade him tells me they are unwilling to accept any of their own responsibility. Tomlin hopped right on Santonio last year by benching him for a game (maybe it should have been 2 or 4 to really wake him up), someone in the organization needed to get in Ben's face before this point if they have that much problem with his behavior. And 6 games is an outrageous penalty given the facts (on both sides) that we've heard.

fansince'76
04-21-2010, 02:55 PM
Twitter or not, Schefter has proved to be a very reliable NFL source...

The same guy who recently had McNabb going to the Raiders? OK....

zulater
04-21-2010, 02:55 PM
Appeal Ben appeal, and when that fails go to appellate court and get an injuction against dictator Goodell!

AndyWitmyer
04-21-2010, 02:56 PM
The 6 game penalty is outrageous, I agree. But I don't think wanting to dump Ben is necessarily outrageous. Ben's a huge liability - what evidence is there that there won't be yet another rape allegation surfacing before he's through the first 6 days of his suspension?

BigBen2WardPITT
04-21-2010, 02:56 PM
I think Ben's behavior show's a huge lack of maturity and judgement, BUT I don't think the Steelers have done anything previously to really address it and make Ben aware of how serious they take it. To turn around now and start looking to trade him is a mistake, I know the Rooney's take their organization's reputation very seriously, but someone should have taken Ben by the scruff of the neck after the motorcycle accident, sat him down and explained to him his responsibilities to the image of the team and then given him some type of consequence after the FIRST allegation. To skip over those steps and just try to trade him tells me they are unwilling to accept any of their own responsibility. Tomlin hopped right on Santonio last year by benching him for a game (maybe it should have been 2 or 4 to really wake him up), someone in the organization needed to get in Ben's face before this point if they have that much problem with his behavior. And 6 games is an outrageous penalty given the facts (on both sides) that we've heard.

yupp. As I said earlier, there's been this random just jump to trade talk, when for years there was nothing done to reprimand him for other things (such as the motorcycle accident).

Shoes
04-21-2010, 02:56 PM
I think the Rooneys know something about Ben that we don't. It's highly possible that they've come to the decision that criminal charges, accidents, and suspensions may become a, increasingly prevalent issue for Ben in the coming years that maybe its just not worth it for the team to take the kind of hit in integrity that they're going take for it.

Exactly! They know more than people on a FORUM!

MACH1
04-21-2010, 02:57 PM
If I was Ben and I was innocent I would also appeal Goodell's suspension and take it to appelate court
Godell is the appellate court.

If they do trade him get used to another very long stretch of mediocrity.

zulater
04-21-2010, 02:58 PM
Perfect for the Ravens and Bengals perhaps, but not for the Steelers. Two games is the most it should have been. Appeal Ben appeal, then when that fails go to appelete court and get an injuction against the league. If the Steelers don't like it, tough!

BigBen2WardPITT
04-21-2010, 02:58 PM
The 6 game penalty is outrageous, I agree. But I don't think wanting to dump Ben is necessarily outrageous. Ben's a huge liability - what evidence is there that there won't be yet another rape allegation surfacing before he's through the first 6 days of his suspension?


let's be clear. He's been in the league for 7 years, and there's been TWO allegations. The first allegation looks really shady: she just sued instead of actually pressing charges. This latest charges was dropped. It's not as if these are coming out every 2 months, and he STILL hasn't been charged with anything.

AndyWitmyer
04-21-2010, 02:59 PM
Exactly! They know more than people on a FORUM!

Glad someone is open to that reality. I've supported Ben and admired his athleticism as much as the next guy, but this whole thing has left a bad taste in my mouth. Honestly, I would be okay with whatever decision the Ronneys go with.

delhess
04-21-2010, 03:00 PM
If the Steelers actually called the Browns.....this team is more of a mess than I imagined.

doesn't mean they want to trade him there, it means they are shopping him. i've already thought this one through. you shop him everywhere to get what you can for him. they really aren't going to trade him there. its just bargaining for the most part.

zulater
04-21-2010, 03:00 PM
Godell is the appellate court.

If they do trade him get used to another very long stretch of mediocrity.

I know Goodell is wh an appeal would go to, but f' him, I'd go to federal appelate court and seek an injunction.

Steelrule
04-21-2010, 03:01 PM
Nothing would suprise me except inaction.

NJarhead
04-21-2010, 03:02 PM
"Calling the Browns" kinda makes me question the veracity of it.

Any actual legitimacy to these stories, or just Twitter rumors?


Yea, since when do we know everything about the goings on in the front office before it happens? Not in Pittsburgh. This is a scare tactic IMO.

yinzer-inseattle
04-21-2010, 03:02 PM
The main issue here is this has nothing to do with his criminal guilt or innocence, but his overall image and the impact his actions have on the "product" of the NFL. Honestly, he is not "innocent" in the sense of doing nothing. If he was, there wouldn't be a media storm, DA press conferences and legal documents. There was some validity to the story, but obviously not enough to criminally prosecute. Now, does he deserve 6? Probably not. But he does deserve something since Goodell put forth a conduct policy that his employees are expected to follow. Is it illegal for you to go to work drunk tomorrow morning? No. But your boss isn't going to be too happy and will most likely take action. Same situation.



Excellent post. Totally agree. This is about the NFL product. Not about innocence race, or anything else. The largest growing demographic for the NFL (fan base) is female. The NFL wants to grow the pie and they aint gonna do it by appealing to more men (we're already hooked). Women start walking away and that's a hit to the bottom line for everyone. On top of that it that could take years to rebuild.

NJarhead
04-21-2010, 03:03 PM
The same guy who recently had McNabb going to the Raiders? OK....

He had another Geraldo Rivera moment last year too, but I forget what it was.

MACH1
04-21-2010, 03:03 PM
Yea, since when do we know everything about the goings on in the front office before it happens? Not in Pittsburgh. This is a scare tactic IMO.

The thought crossed my mind and I hope your right.

AndyWitmyer
04-21-2010, 03:04 PM
let's be clear. He's been in the league for 7 years, and there's been TWO allegations. The first allegation looks really shady: she just sued instead of actually pressing charges. This latest charges was dropped. It's not as if these are coming out every 2 months, and he STILL hasn't been charged with anything.

It's not just the two allegations. I think there are more problems with Ben than just that, and truthfully, I think its safe to assume that the Rooneys know a hell of a lot more about Ben than you and me. Indeed, Ben's problems might run a lot deeper than the two allegations we know about. (Let's also not forget the motorcycle accident.)

Ben's proven time and again that he's highly deficient in the area of personal wisdom and common sense - and those are two things that the Steelers organization happen to highly value.

HinesTroy
04-21-2010, 03:04 PM
Godell is the appellate court.

If they do trade him get used to another very long stretch of mediocrity.

ESPN is talking about the Steelers record without Ben. They are a 500 team. If he is traded, get used to this number.

Shoes
04-21-2010, 03:06 PM
If Ben hasn't ever commited an act of sexual assualt he should go on the offensive and start to get his side of the story out. I don't care if his lawyers would advise him against it, it 's his life and it's getting destroyed as a result of him being convincted in the court of public opinion. What good is going uncharged if you're life is destroyed in the proccess?

If I was Ben and I was innocent I would also appeal Goodell's suspension and take it to appelate court when Goodell refuses to budge off his intial punishment. I know he told the Steelers he would comply with reasonable punishment, but two things change that.

1. 6 games is beyond reason for an "offense" that didn't amount to enough to bring about criminal charges.

2. If it's true the Steelers are currently shopping Ben then it's they who have betrayed Ben's trust, and he owes them nothing in the sense of rolling over for a good(ell) f###ing. :mad:

Speak up Ben speak up!!!:banging:

I think Ben would be wise to follow your signature

Riddle_Of_Steel
04-21-2010, 03:08 PM
To turn around now and start looking to trade him is a mistake, I know the Rooney's take their organization's reputation very seriously, but someone should have taken Ben by the scruff of the neck after the motorcycle accident, sat him down and explained to him his responsibilities to the image of the team and then given him some type of consequence after the FIRST allegation.

Terry Bradshaw and Dan Marino already did this publicly after the motorcycle accident-- they talked to Ben about how he has a responsibility to the Roonies, his fans, and his investors to be ready to go every offseason.

TO those folks who think trading Big Ben would be a mistake-- I assume you live by the mentality that "winning is everything", no matter the costs.

Myself, I would rather cheer for a classy franchise that won't win another ring for 20 years than to cheer for a sexual predator or violent criminal on my team....

If Superbowl rings mean more to you as a fan than it does for your team to have integrity-- I strongly suggest you part ways with the Steeler fanbase and go cheer for a team that better suits your thinking. The Patriots, Cowboys, and Raiders might be more your fit.

St33lersguy
04-21-2010, 03:08 PM
A few morons on facebook want Ben traded away so the steelers appease to those people and search for a trade. The steelers only good starting QB since Bradshaw retired yet they are willing to just hand him away to someone else so that team can flourish and the steelers can allow Dennis Dixon to set the franchise back. a few years. Anyone who wants Ben traded (yes including anyone in the organization) apparently forgets all that Ben did for the franchise or how crappy QBs between Bradshaw and Ben cost the steelers championships.

AndyWitmyer
04-21-2010, 03:08 PM
ESPN is talking about the Steelers record without Ben. They are a 500 team. If he is traded, get used to this number.

We're a .500 team with the backup that we've had. I HIGHLY doubt that the Steelers would settle for mediocrity post-Ben. Yeah, it might end up that way - but I'd have faith that they'd try their best to find the best possible replacement.

isunormalil
04-21-2010, 03:09 PM
What I don't understand is how Donte Stallworth is reinstated after killing someone. The commish suspends a guy that hasn't been charged with anything...yet reinstates a guy that kills someone!

Leftoverhard
04-21-2010, 03:09 PM
I hope it is just a scare tactic - It gives me the shivers to imagine this team without Ben. I keep hoping this whole thing is a nightmare.

WH
04-21-2010, 03:09 PM
Yeah, they lose the female demographic.....they can't sell anymore PINK Steeler's Jerseys.

beSteelmyheart
04-21-2010, 03:09 PM
I would hope that they would offer Ben some help with an ultimatum before just trading him off. And I would hope that Ben would take those steps to grow up & stop being such a drunken idiot. It would suck to see him go.

MACH1
04-21-2010, 03:12 PM
We're a .500 team with the backup that we've had. I HIGHLY doubt that the Steelers would settle for mediocrity post-Ben. Yeah, it might end up that way - but I'd have faith that they'd try their best to find the best possible replacement.

I doubt that the Steelers would settle for that too. But a franchise qb doesn't come along every day. It took 25 years to find this one.

delhess
04-21-2010, 03:13 PM
it is a real live nightmare, and by tomorrow nite, we may have a better idea of how it ends for the steelers. try at this point to wrap your mind around the idea that they keep him, and the thing eventually fades away. that's pretty hard to imagine too at this point. that is why ben i probly gone imo. it has spiraled out of control.

i wouldn't buy a #7 jersey right now, and neither would anyone else. what do you want the rooney's to do? this is not the steelers.

the browns, well, the rooney's must look at EVERY option...and they are.

Steelerroy
04-21-2010, 03:14 PM
My post wasn't meant to say we should blindly trust the Rooneys on all decisions. I just think for them to think about trading such a great player they have to have strong feelings and that could mean they know more then what's been told. I would guess the investigators they used dug up everything they could and of course not all would be released. And because they haven't thought of trading him before doesn't mean they haven't been frustrated with him for a long time. Winning Bowls may have kept them tolerant of his actions for awhile now.It is strange to me how lightly the accusations have been taken by some people. Personally I'm torn on this and can't decide either way. But like I asked before, isn't it strange that teams aren't throwing offers like crazy?

AndyWitmyer
04-21-2010, 03:15 PM
I haven't forgotten about the crappy QBs between Bradshaw and Ben, but truthfully, Ben's done a lot of harm to the team in terms of how people have come to perceive the team. I would support the organization if it felt the need to look elsewhere for talent if it meant that they'd have someone with wisdom and moral integrity - sometimes that is more important than talent alone. That having been said, if they decided to keep Ben, then I want him to clean up his act and learn from this - that he's not invincible, that you can't just live life on the edge and expect to come away scot-free. He does a lot of risky things - his drinking problem and girl issues are only just a few examples.

I do think that this talk of a trade is more a scare tactic than anything else, but at the same time, it wouldn't surprise me if the Rooney's would go ahead with it if they felt the trade was truly worth it.

Riddle_Of_Steel
04-21-2010, 03:17 PM
yupp. As I said earlier, there's been this random just jump to trade talk, when for years there was nothing done to reprimand him for other things (such as the motorcycle accident).

He WAS reprimanded for the motorcycle incident, but at that point, he wasn't being charged with any crimes. He broke no laws by not wearing a helmet.

But being accused AT LEAST 3 times for a particularly violent and unacceptable crime like rape or sexual assault?

Come on now-- if any other team besides our own had a player who had been accused of sexual assault two or three times, and they weren't trying to trade him, you know as well as I do, that Steeler fans like you everywhere would be pointing their finger and bragging about how classy a show the Ronney's run and how we wouldn't put up with that kind of thing on our team...

I would be EXTREMELY disappointed to see Big Ben traded away, but I would not be surprised, nor would I disagree with the decision. The Rooney's have been running a classy franchise for 3/4 of a century and they know what they are doing...

St33lersguy
04-21-2010, 03:17 PM
He forgot to mention how none of this won't apply to anyone on the cheatriots

Dino 6 Rings
04-21-2010, 03:19 PM
He fooled around with a drunk chick in a bar and her friends cried rape, the cop on the scene called it BS and has since been forced to resign from his job...the gal was wearing a DTF name tag and her entir sorrority was forced to take down all facebook and twitter accounts to prevent embarressing stuff from hitting the internet by the next day...the other case some girl runs around saying she's hoping to have his baby, then a year later files a civil suit...and now we are looking to trade the guy?

there has to be more we just haven't heard about...maybe that Vegas case the lawyer in boston mentioned...or something...I don't get it...sure its "jockish" to act that away, and could be "immoral" if you're a total stick in the mud...but really...a trade over it?

Either there is more we don't know about, like the guy is a total drunk...or we are just caving to public pressure.

Steel_12
04-21-2010, 03:20 PM
Ultimately, I suppose in the NFL:

You can be incarcerated (Michael Vick) for two years, and only get a 2 game suspension.

You can murder two people (Ray Lewis) and be right back to playing football without any suspension

You can tweet about getting high, and get busted with drugs (Santonio Holmes) and get a 4 game suspension

But, god forbid, someone "claim" you did something, and never get charged..... . Well, thats a 6 game suspension..

Overexaggerated post

NJarhead
04-21-2010, 03:21 PM
He fooled around with a drunk chick in a bar and her friends cried rape, the cop on the scene called it BS and has since been forced to resign from his job...the gal was wearing a DTF name tag and her entir sorrority was forced to take down all facebook and twitter accounts to prevent embarressing stuff from hitting the internet by the next day...the other case some girl runs around saying she's hoping to have his baby, then a year later files a civil suit...and now we are looking to trade the guy?

there has to be more we just haven't heard about...maybe that Vegas case the lawyer in boston mentioned...or something...I don't get it...sure its "jockish" to act that away, and could be "immoral" if you're a total stick in the mud...but really...a trade over it?

Either there is more we don't know about, like the guy is a total drunk...or we are just caving to public pressure.

... or they're leaking it to scare the crap out of him (while being open minded to a great deal).

We've never heard so much info from the front office BEFORE the action. Never.

Dino 6 Rings
04-21-2010, 03:22 PM
on the good side...if he goes to Cleveland our defense will once again lead the league in sacks...since he'll hold the ball too long there too LOL

Dino 6 Rings
04-21-2010, 03:24 PM
... or they're leaking it to scare the crap out of him (while being open minded to a great deal).

We've never heard so much info from the front office BEFORE the action. Never.

I tend to agree, if a deal was in the works, we wouldn't hear a whisper...it could be a PR move to just "suggest" the "possibility" of a trade...

Kind of like taking away your kids car keys a week before the prom..."listen buddy...you aren't gonna have a car" kid gets all nervous and acts right...then mommy comes to the kids aid...talks dad into giving the keys back which dad was going to do anyway...but now dad looks like he means business...yeah...

MACH1
04-21-2010, 03:24 PM
on the good side...if he goes to Cleveland our defense will once again lead the league in sacks...since he'll hold the ball too long there too LOL

:sofunny:

Only if they have the mindset they don't pay him to hand the ball off. :chuckle:

Bluedust
04-21-2010, 03:26 PM
It's not just the two allegations. I think there are more problems with Ben than just that, and truthfully, I think its safe to assume that the Rooneys know a hell of a lot more about Ben than you and me. Indeed, Ben's problems might run a lot deeper than the two allegations we know about. (Let's also not forget the motorcycle accident.)

Ben's proven time and again that he's highly deficient in the area of personal wisdom and common sense - and those are two things that the Steelers organization happen to highly value.

You have no proof of this though, so it's pretty stupid to believe something so strongly that has no definite footing in reality.

Prok
04-21-2010, 03:27 PM
I hope it is just a scare tactic - It gives me the shivers to imagine this team without Ben. I keep hoping this whole thing is a nightmare.

Agreed. No way in hell i want our team trading Big Ben. This is some serious bullsh!t if this is true.

:banging: :mad:

Cape Cod Steel Head
04-21-2010, 03:28 PM
If the Rooneys have no problem with it, and they don't, I don't know why anyone here should.

steelreserve
04-21-2010, 03:29 PM
Honestly, I don't know what to think, but if they're going to do something, I hope they just get it over with and do it. I seriously doubt the Rooneys would trade away their franchise QB without any kind of a decent plan for how the team would carry on. I also doubt they'd just do it on a whim without thinking of the consequences on many levels.

For all the crap I give the hardliners on this board who always say "You're just a fan, what do you know -- I'd rather just trust that the front office knows what they're doing, thanks" ... well, this probably is one of those cases where that's actually right. I don't know know the guy, I don't deal with him on a daily basis, and I can only guess about what goes on in the locker room or any deeper-running problems that might be going on. Looking back at the Holmes fire-sale trade ... while we got terrible value for him, if it sent the message of "No more bullshit, we're here to concentrate on football," then hell, maybe that WAS valuable to the team in ways I don't know.

Anyway, as I said in the other thread, I don't quite share the Ben-or-nothing attitude that a lot of us do. I'm not advocating trading the guy, but I'm not scared to see what would happen if we did. I still view this as a Super Bowl contending team with or without him. If the defense ever plays the way it did in 2008, lots of QBs could get us there, and that's really the core of this team.

Also, let's not forget that Leftwich is a hell of a lot better fallback option than the QBs we had in the 1980s. We are not going to fall directly off some precipice where we have Bubby Brister and Mike Tomczak equivalents starting for the next 15 years. The world would not end.

truesteelerfan
04-21-2010, 03:30 PM
This is just disgusting! Do the owners and front office brass want to lose again?
I would rather have a full team full of people who have been found innocent of any crimes...who wins all the time....over a bunch of people who have never been accused of anything and lose every week.

The man wasn't even charged.......thats what bugs me!

SteelGhost
04-21-2010, 03:30 PM
Yea, since when do we know everything about the goings on in the front office before it happens? Not in Pittsburgh. This is a scare tactic IMO.

Specially for the Black & Gold fans :chuckle:

Prok
04-21-2010, 03:31 PM
Haven't read the whole thing. Is there at least a way he can get the suspension reduced to 4 games ?

Bluedust
04-21-2010, 03:31 PM
Honestly, I don't know what to think, but if they're going to do something, I hope they just get it over with and do it. I seriously doubt the Rooneys would trade away their franchise QB without any kind of a decent plan for how the team would carry on. I also doubt they'd just do it on a whim without thinking of the consequences on many levels.

For all the crap I give the hardliners on this board who always say "You're just a fan, what do you know -- I'd rather just trust that the front office knows what they're doing, thanks" ... well, this probably is one of those cases where that's actually right. I don't know know the guy, I don't deal with him on a daily basis, and I can only guess about what goes on in the locker room or any deeper-running problems that might be going on. Looking back at the Holmes fire-sale trade ... while we got terrible value for him, if it sent the message of "No more bullshit, we're here to concentrate on football," then hell, maybe that WAS valuable to the team in ways I don't know.

Anyway, as I said in the other thread, I don't quite share the Ben-or-nothing attitude that a lot of us do. I'm not advocating trading the guy, but I'm not scared to see what would happen if we did. I still view this as a Super Bowl contending team with or without him. If the defense ever plays the way it did in 2008, lots of QBs could get us there, and that's really the core of this team.

Also, let's not forget that Leftwich is a hell of a lot better fallback option than the QBs we had in the 1980s. We are not going to fall directly off some precipice where we have Bubby Brister and Mike Tomczak equivalents starting for the next 15 years. The world would not end.

We should just trade Ben and draft Tebow in the 2nd, I'm sure that'd make the angry, moral crowd pretty happy.

NJarhead
04-21-2010, 03:32 PM
I know that I'm going to get lashback for being a Ravens fan, but I find this discussion interesting as an NFL thing and not a Steelers thing (although I will be happy if we don't have to face ben in week 4).

The main issue here is this has nothing to do with his criminal guilt or innocence, but his overall image and the impact his actions have on the "product" of the NFL. Honestly, he is not "innocent" in the sense of doing nothing. If he was, there wouldn't be a media storm, DA press conferences and legal documents. There was some validity to the story, but obviously not enough to criminally prosecute. Now, does he deserve 6? Probably not. But he does deserve something since Goodell put forth a conduct policy that his employees are expected to follow. Is it illegal for you to go to work drunk tomorrow morning? No. But your boss isn't going to be too happy and will most likely take action. Same situation.

Is it fair across the league? Maybe, maybe not. Santo got hit by the NFL AND the Rooney's for a pattern of behavior. Ray Lewis got nothing because that was a different time, different commish, and different rules. Was it fair? No. Stallworth was suspended for a year for his vehicular manslaughter, a terrible event, but one he thankfully acted like a man in and took complete responsibility for. His legal deal is something that obviously can be debated elsewhere. Vick got off easy because he was in jail for 2 years.

I think ultimately Ben will be back at the end of week 4 and will be fine. However he does need to realize he isn't a college kid anymore and his decisions have consequences. If you get burned when you put your hand in the fire, maybe you should stop doing it.

Take up religion like Ray Ray!!! (that one is just to get you all fired up!!:sofunny::rofl:

Just my $.02 Here's to a good season! See ya'll week 4! :drink:

Good post. :drink:

NJarhead
04-21-2010, 03:32 PM
Haven't read the whole thing. Is there at least a way he can get the suspension reduced to 4 games ?


Seems so. He needs a psych eval or something (too lazy to look up the link. Sorry).

StylCurtainXL
04-21-2010, 03:33 PM
Weren't a playoff team with Ben having his best season. But can be a superbowl contender without him?

They drafted him, used him to help win two SB's, they need to fix him.

zulater
04-21-2010, 03:33 PM
I just heard on ESPN that one of Ben's lawyers is going on Mike and Mike tommorow morning. I'm going to be very interested to see what he has to say.

WindyCitySteelerFan
04-21-2010, 03:34 PM
Overexaggerated post

IS it, really?

truesteelerfan
04-21-2010, 03:34 PM
What a big freaking mess! He was accused....BIG DEAL!!! Who cares!! If he had done something...maybe even enough to be charged with a crime we could have this conversation....But really...how much effort does it take to accuse someone of something....We could take all the members of this board, and jointly accuse Tom Brady of rape.....Then what, should he be suspended also? Accusations happen all the time...As we hopefully all agree, the Nevada incedent was a joke on this board a year ago...what kind of woman goes after him in a civil suit only unless they're a gold digger? So accusations don't always mean he's guilty...shoot, he's not even guilty enough to go to trial...except in the eyes of several people who are supposed to be his fans and supporters.

Steelrule
04-21-2010, 03:35 PM
I'm a "Steelers" fan! One player does not make the organization, but one player can break it. His actions/lack of common sense, lead me to believe he is uncontrollable and until he get's caught "on tape," this will not be the last issue we have with him.

If they feel it is best to attempt to trade him now, fine, Ben has no leverage at this point. He should be kissing the ground the Rooney’s walk on right now instead of thinking he's "all that" and a ham sandwich.

LukesDad88
04-21-2010, 03:36 PM
It's not just the two allegations. I think there are more problems with Ben than just that, and truthfully, I think its safe to assume that the Rooneys know a hell of a lot more about Ben than you and me. Indeed, Ben's problems might run a lot deeper than the two allegations we know about. (Let's also not forget the motorcycle accident.)

Ben's proven time and again that he's highly deficient in the area of personal wisdom and common sense - and those are two things that the Steelers organization happen to highly value.

+1. Don't forget that NFL Security has been going back and doing some digging now. I'm confident the Rooneys have hired someone as well.

I understand everybody being angry, but don't you think some of that anger should be directed at Ben for forcing the Rooneys into a situation where they have to consider a trade?

AllD
04-21-2010, 03:37 PM
Maybe his attitude about the whole mess sucks. Now, we need two #1s or thheir first three picks.

truesteelerfan
04-21-2010, 03:37 PM
I doubt that the Steelers would settle for that too. But a franchise qb doesn't come along every day. It took 25 years to find this one.

Agreed. We're not a good enough team without Ben to challenge for a playoff position. Remember last season when we didn't make it? That will be status quo for us if we trade him! Madness!!!!:banging:

RoethlisBURGHer
04-21-2010, 03:37 PM
I know that I'm going to get lashback for being a Ravens fan, but I find this discussion interesting as an NFL thing and not a Steelers thing (although I will be happy if we don't have to face ben in week 4).

The main issue here is this has nothing to do with his criminal guilt or innocence, but his overall image and the impact his actions have on the "product" of the NFL. Honestly, he is not "innocent" in the sense of doing nothing. If he was, there wouldn't be a media storm, DA press conferences and legal documents. There was some validity to the story, but obviously not enough to criminally prosecute. Now, does he deserve 6? Probably not. But he does deserve something since Goodell put forth a conduct policy that his employees are expected to follow. Is it illegal for you to go to work drunk tomorrow morning? No. But your boss isn't going to be too happy and will most likely take action. Same situation.

Is it fair across the league? Maybe, maybe not. Santo got hit by the NFL AND the Rooney's for a pattern of behavior. Ray Lewis got nothing because that was a different time, different commish, and different rules. Was it fair? No. Stallworth was suspended for a year for his vehicular manslaughter, a terrible event, but one he thankfully acted like a man in and took complete responsibility for. His legal deal is something that obviously can be debated elsewhere. Vick got off easy because he was in jail for 2 years.

I think ultimately Ben will be back at the end of week 4 and will be fine. However he does need to realize he isn't a college kid anymore and his decisions have consequences. If you get burned when you put your hand in the fire, maybe you should stop doing it.

Take up religion like Ray Ray!!! (that one is just to get you all fired up!!:sofunny::rofl:

Just my $.02 Here's to a good season! See ya'll week 4! :drink:

I don't think that you're going to get as much backlash as you thint........you Baltimoron! :chuckle: You've been around here and for the most part we like you....just not that smell that comes with you! :flap:

I agree that Big Ben needs a suspension, but the possibility of six games when he hasn't been arrested or charged with anything. While in the end, as long as Ben Roethlisberger doesn't do something else stupid, it will be four games......the chance of six games I think is BS.

And in week four......you're going down.

Pittsky
04-21-2010, 03:37 PM
+1. Don't forget that NFL Security has been going back and doing some digging now. I'm confident the Rooneys have hired someone as well.

I understand everybody being angry, but don't you think some of that anger should be directed at Ben for forcing the Rooneys into a situation where they have to consider a trade?

no way. it's all goodells fault and the rooney's...they make horrible decisions after all. :wink02:

LukesDad88
04-21-2010, 03:38 PM
We should just trade Ben and draft Tebow in the 2nd, I'm sure that'd make the angry, moral crowd pretty happy.

What a world.

Leftoverhard
04-21-2010, 03:38 PM
I know that I'm going to get lashback for being a Ravens fan, but I find this discussion interesting as an NFL thing and not a Steelers thing (although I will be happy if we don't have to face ben in week 4).

The main issue here is this has nothing to do with his criminal guilt or innocence, but his overall image and the impact his actions have on the "product" of the NFL. Honestly, he is not "innocent" in the sense of doing nothing. If he was, there wouldn't be a media storm, DA press conferences and legal documents. There was some validity to the story, but obviously not enough to criminally prosecute. Now, does he deserve 6? Probably not. But he does deserve something since Goodell put forth a conduct policy that his employees are expected to follow. Is it illegal for you to go to work drunk tomorrow morning? No. But your boss isn't going to be too happy and will most likely take action. Same situation.

Is it fair across the league? Maybe, maybe not. Santo got hit by the NFL AND the Rooney's for a pattern of behavior. Ray Lewis got nothing because that was a different time, different commish, and different rules. Was it fair? No. Stallworth was suspended for a year for his vehicular manslaughter, a terrible event, but one he thankfully acted like a man in and took complete responsibility for. His legal deal is something that obviously can be debated elsewhere. Vick got off easy because he was in jail for 2 years.

I think ultimately Ben will be back at the end of week 4 and will be fine. However he does need to realize he isn't a college kid anymore and his decisions have consequences. If you get burned when you put your hand in the fire, maybe you should stop doing it.

Take up religion like Ray Ray!!! (that one is just to get you all fired up!!:sofunny::rofl:

Just my $.02 Here's to a good season! See ya'll week 4! :drink:

Agreed - great post. You're not so bad for a Raven's fan. :wink02:

Whoa - if a certain other poster and I keep agreeing on things, hell might freeze. :chuckle:

NJarhead
04-21-2010, 03:38 PM
Ultimately, I suppose in the NFL:

You can be incarcerated (Michael Vick) for two years, and only get a 2 game suspension.

You can murder two people (Ray Lewis) and be right back to playing football without any suspension

You can tweet about getting high, and get busted with drugs (Santonio Holmes) and get a 4 game suspension

But, god forbid, someone "claim" you did something, and never get charged..... . Well, thats a 6 game suspension..

Overexaggerated post

IS it, really?

Actually, I agree.

Ray's deal was with a different commish.

Vick served two years in prison (lost two years in the NFL) and has paid his debt to both.

Santo had two issues going on at once. Ultimately he was suspended for violating the leagues substance abuse policy. There should be no argument there.

Ben is Goodell's "example." He's putting his foot down and setting the precedence. That said, it's likely only the 4 game alternative. We can live with that.

Prok
04-21-2010, 03:43 PM
I doubt that the Steelers would settle for that too. But a franchise qb doesn't come along every day. It took 25 years to find this one.

This ^^.

We have a veteran SB contending team. We have a franchise QB. Why in the hell would we trade him and begin the next search for great QB ??

This is downright sickening. It'll be officially the worst off-season ever if we trade him.

Bluedust
04-21-2010, 03:43 PM
I'm a "Steelers" fan! One player does not make the organization, but one player can break it. His actions/lack of common sense, lead me to believe he is uncontrollable and until he get's caught "on tape," this will not be the last issue we have with him.

If they feel it is best to attempt to trade him now, fine, Ben has no leverage at this point. He should be kissing the ground the Rooney’s walk on right now instead of thinking he's "all that" and a ham sandwich.

Who says Ben is walking around thinking he's all that and a ham sandwich?

Also I'm glad his actions lead YOU to believe he's uncontrollable, I'm sure it helps you sleep better at night, understand though that I don't take you as an authority on the subject.

Riddle_Of_Steel
04-21-2010, 03:45 PM
that's the same 60% that voted for Obama, including Rooney

Ah, yes-- Republicans always wearing that same stinky cologne (called "Desperation" by Liz Claiborne), everything is Obama's fault, even on a football forum that has nothing to do with politics...

The other 40% in that poll that have no problems cheering on a violent criminal or rapist, must be the same folks that will be voting for Sarah Palin in 2012...

steelreserve
04-21-2010, 03:45 PM
Weren't a playoff team with Ben having his best season. But can be a superbowl contender without him?

That's exactly right. I can't think of anything that could possibly illustrate that point better than the way the last two seasons have gone.

In 2008, Ben played like shit, and we won the Super Bowl.

In 2009, Ben played like an All-Pro, and we didn't even make the playoffs.

Gee, what else was different between those two seasons? Oh, that's right -- the defense played well in 2008 and was beat-up and sloppy (insert joke about Ben's women problems here) in 2009. Whether we contend or not has a hell of a lot more to do with how the defense plays than whether our QB puts up great fantasy football numbers. If the D is on top of its game, we can probably get by as long as we have a guy who doesn't throw stupid interceptions and gives us a reasonable chance to get a couple of first downs in a row.

HanSteelers
04-21-2010, 03:45 PM
DO NOT TRADE BEN

SteelerFanInStl
04-21-2010, 03:46 PM
Agreed. No way in hell i want our team trading Big Ben. This is some serious bullsh!t if this is true.

:banging: :mad:

:iagree: Complete BS and I'm tired of hearing about it.

Ricco Suavez
04-21-2010, 03:47 PM
This may have already been addressed but I do not have time to read every Ben post. But the Rooneys and Goodell may be making an example of Ben because there is some credence to his accusers accusations. I am not condemning Ben but if anyone has access to privilege info it would be the Rooneys. Just the fact that they are shopping him as trade bait speaks volumes that they are tired of all this turmoil.

I for one hope this is not true, and if the Steelers trade him, and he stays out of trouble, then I will root for him up to a point. It would have to be for a team I have little distaste for and it would not conflict for my support of the Steelers. I really hope that a trade will not make this organization the butt of jokes for years to come though.

pancake
04-21-2010, 03:48 PM
Seems excellent PR to me.
Rooneys knew they would take media flak over this. Hard. Were getting a bad name.
Have to be SEEN to be doing something. So they are. Being SEEN to do something. This is VERY visible.
I could try and sell my car - but not if I asked a million pounds for it.
But that having been said... if someone offered me a million pounds, I'd take it!


PS - I strongly suspect "plan B" is not Bradford but Tebow.

Are you kidding me???? Tebow is not an NFL QB. Tebow makes Cliff Stout look like a HOF player...

LVSteelersfan
04-21-2010, 03:49 PM
Ben is a rogue QB who pulls off some amazing plays but does a lot of stupid things as well. I honestly like those plays where he breaks away from what looks like a sure tackle and tosses it downfield, but he gets sacked more than most QBs in the league and I fear he will have a concussion that will end his career any time. That motorcycle accident could have serious consequences on his brain pan. I am on the fence on this one. I seriously doubt they would trade him to the Clowns because they are on the brink of being a good team and Ben on that team could be scary. I would hope the Seahawks would bite. NFC team we play very little. And he wouldn't be knocking us out of the playoffs on an AFC team. He would probably be scary on the Bills team as well.

kirklandrules
04-21-2010, 03:50 PM
The funny thing is we don't even know that Ben is going to cry over this suspension. Maybe he'll accept responsibility for getting himself into a bad position, complete the steps required to knock it down to 4 games (that we'll all watch to see how DD will play) and go on with his life. As I said in another thread, this is all about repairing his image. If he makes a fuss over it, those that think he did something wrong will hate him further. If he just takes it like a man and walks through it, then you have someone that is on the road to redemption and the critics will slowly stop speaking about it.

StylCurtainXL
04-21-2010, 03:51 PM
Except Ben didn't play like @#$% in 2008.

Without Ben no SB43 and it really isn't debatable.

Trade or don't trade, not my choice. But this football team is better with BB at QB than not.

xbroughneck
04-21-2010, 03:52 PM
Maybe the Rooneys are bluffing so they can tell the overreactionary segment of the fan base, "Hey, we tried to trade him, but nobody would take him, so shut the **** up and deal with it!"

I hope that is the case.

I'm very doubtful Bruce Arian's offensive scheme can be successful with this offensive line and with him being a poor game day caller.

Without Ben teams will stack the box against the run because they won't fear our pass. If you stack the box I have no confidence that our offensive line (especially Matt Spaeth) will know how to successfully run block in that situation.



Long story short...I'd rather keep Ben for the next 3 years, or until he makes a mistake...instead of relying on mediocrity for the next 10 years.

This is a passing league. Ben has the BIG GAME experience that I want as the Steelers QB. I have no desire to see them let him go.

pancake
04-21-2010, 03:53 PM
That's exactly right. I can't think of anything that could possibly illustrate that point better than the way the last two seasons have gone.

In 2008, Ben played like shit, and we won the Super Bowl.

In 2009, Ben played like an All-Pro, and we didn't even make the playoffs.

Gee, what else was different between those two seasons? Oh, that's right -- the defense played well in 2008 and was beat-up and sloppy (insert joke about Ben's women problems here) in 2009. Whether we contend or not has a hell of a lot more to do with how the defense plays than whether our QB puts up great fantasy football numbers. If the D is on top of its game, we can probably get by as long as we have a guy who doesn't throw stupid interceptions and gives us a reasonable chance to get a couple of first downs in a row.

If you think we can make a Super Bowl without Ben, longless win one in the next ten years or so, I think you're kidding yourself...

OMG I'm not ready to go through the 80's & 90's again...

:puke:

Prok
04-21-2010, 03:54 PM
I guarantee all those clowns fans who bashed him are now hoping they get him.


Dear Art II: DO NOT TRADE BEN !!!!!

:banging:

Ricco Suavez
04-21-2010, 03:55 PM
I would root for Ben on another team, but under these conditions. First he would have to stay out of trouble and put these last episodes behind him, second, I could not root for him if it hurt the Steelers chances at another Superbowl, and finally I could not root for him if he went to certain teams, such as Browns, Bengals, Ravens, Cowboys, Patriots. And a final word IF, and I mean IF Ben were to be traded and he has no more issues it would be nice to see some of the reactionary posts from some people on here if he has great success with a new team.

Fire Haley
04-21-2010, 03:55 PM
Any Steeler fan that wants Ben traded can go **** themselves... .and you can tell the Rooneys I said that.

Preacher
04-21-2010, 03:58 PM
If Ben didn't rape her, I wish he would take a lie detector. That would be good enoug for me. Even though it could be off because he was drinking ...it would still be good enough for me.


Doesn't work like that. What one person considers consensual the other may not. . . and IMO, that is exactly the problem here. That is why I am hoping the behavior counseling will do wonders. I think for Ben, it is more a matter of his eyes really being opened more than anything else.

Prok
04-21-2010, 03:59 PM
If you think we can make a Super Bowl without Ben, longless win one in the next ten years or so, I think you're kidding yourself...

OMG I'm not ready to go through the 80's & 90's again...

:puke:

You're not alone in thinking that. i'm praying this is a charade by Rooney to unite the fanbase again.

truesteelerfan
04-21-2010, 03:59 PM
Brett Favre.

Brett Favre.

LOL- Isn't he retired?

:doh:

GASteelerFan
04-21-2010, 03:59 PM
Ben is a disgusting swine.

What kind of person forces a young girl so drunk because Ben was giving underage girls shots, so she can't stand or walk by herself, to have sex with him in a bar bathroom? No girl in that state can consciously "consent" to have sex with a 6'5" 280+ lb guy. And when she said no, how would she have stopped him? No one wants or deserves that. Seems like Ben could use a strong re-introduction to some Christian values.

The reports (which are online) say that girl has decided to not to pursue the charge not because they aren't true, but because of the media attention and the disruption to her life. The media literally patrolled Milledgeville looking for her & camped out near her sorority house (yes, we witnessed this with our own eyes). She has now quit school & is getting counseling to try to get her life back together. She has our deepest sympathy & we wish her the best.

This man is an embarrassment to Pittsburgh and as parents with daughters of our own, we need to run him out of town on a rail.

LukesDad88
04-21-2010, 03:59 PM
Any Steeler fan that wants Ben traded can go **** themselves... .and you can tell the Rooneys I said that.

Thanks, Killer. I forwarded that to Dan, and he cancelled the agreement he was about to make with the Seahawks.

You saved our collective @sses. :coffee:

xbroughneck
04-21-2010, 04:00 PM
Except Ben didn't play like @#$% in 2008.

Without Ben no SB43 and it really isn't debatable.

Trade or don't trade, not my choice. But this football team is better with BB at QB than not.

How about the tackle Ben made to save the game against the Colts, that led to a Super Bowl 40 appearance?

How about his performance against the Denver Broncos in the AFC Championship game that same year that help get the Steelers to the dance.

Then Ben had a below average SB....but he played a MAJOR role in getting the STeelers into that game to begin with.

People must not pay too close attention to the QB position. Well, at least those willing to part with a top THREE NFL QB.

Ben doesn't throw a great deep ball.
He's not a great audibler
He holds onto the ball too long a lot
He's dumb off the field

All of that is correct.

BUT...There is only ONE NFL QB I'd pick to lead my team on a game winning drive other than Big Ben, and it's Tom Brady. And I'd pick Brady only if I got to pick the system that he was playing in. I don't think Brady would be successful in an Arian offense.

I think Ben could be successful on ANY team in the NFL.

i'm not getting rid of Ben.

(I agree with StylCurtainXL by the way)

Prok
04-21-2010, 04:01 PM
Any Steeler fan that wants Ben traded can go **** themselves... .and you can tell the Rooneys I said that.

I'm thinking of a way to tell the Rooney's go f#ck themselves myself if they trade Ben !!

lol

NJarhead
04-21-2010, 04:01 PM
No way. Suh and a pick for Ben and we draft Colt McCoy, then MAYBE.

Steelrule
04-21-2010, 04:02 PM
Ben doesn't need body guards, he needs a morality guard!

MACH1
04-21-2010, 04:03 PM
Ben is a disgusting swine.

What kind of person forces a young girl so drunk because Ben was giving underage girls shots, so she can't stand or walk by herself, to have sex with him in a bar bathroom? No girl in that state can consciously "consent" to have sex with a 6'5" 280+ lb guy. And when she said no, how would she have stopped him? No one wants or deserves that. Seems like Ben could use a strong re-introduction to some Christian values.

The reports (which are online) say that girl has decided to not to pursue the charge not because they aren't true, but because of the media attention and the disruption to her life. The media literally patrolled Milledgeville looking for her & camped out near her sorority house (yes, we witnessed this with our own eyes). She has now quit school & is getting counseling to try to get her life back together. She has our deepest sympathy & we wish her the best.

This man is an embarrassment to Pittsburgh and as parents with daughters of our own, we need to run him out of town on a rail.

She's a ho

fansince'76
04-21-2010, 04:03 PM
She has now quit school

No, she didn't. :rolleyes:

The 20-year-old woman who has accused Pittsburgh Steelers quarterback Ben Roethlisberger of sexual assault plans on returning to Georgia College and State University next week.

Her attorney said the woman took a week off from school and is staying with her parents in Atlanta.

http://www.wsbtv.com/news/22806559/detail.html

43Hitman
04-21-2010, 04:04 PM
So do we pick one of the premier safeties or cb's with our top ten pick? I am partial to the safeties my self.

SteelersinCA
04-21-2010, 04:04 PM
She's a ho

You's a ho. :hug:
































Wanna do it in the bathroom?

BlastFurnace
04-21-2010, 04:04 PM
Any Steeler fan that wants Ben traded can go **** themselves... .and you can tell the Rooneys I said that.

:applaudit::applaudit::applaudit:

zulater
04-21-2010, 04:05 PM
Ben is a disgusting swine.

What kind of person forces a young girl so drunk because Ben was giving underage girls shots, so she can't stand or walk by herself, to have sex with him in a bar bathroom? No girl in that state can consciously "consent" to have sex with a 6'5" 280+ lb guy. And when she said no, how would she have stopped him? No one wants or deserves that. Seems like Ben could use a strong re-introduction to some Christian values.

The reports (which are online) say that girl has decided to not to pursue the charge not because they aren't true, but because of the media attention and the disruption to her life. The media literally patrolled Milledgeville looking for her & camped out near her sorority house (yes, we witnessed this with our own eyes). She has now quit school & is getting counseling to try to get her life back together. She has our deepest sympathy & we wish her the best.

This man is an embarrassment to Pittsburgh and as parents with daughters of our own, we need to run him out of town on a rail.

http://ludwig.squarespace.com/politics-journal/2010/4/15/the-media-lynching-of-ben-roethlisberger.html

Here's an online "report" that actually went over the entire 521 page GBI investigative report and shows why charges were never brought forth.

There's two sides to this story, sadly though only one side is getting "reported".

By the way newbie, how many times have you been kicked off this board for trolling in the past?

:coffee:

Preacher
04-21-2010, 04:05 PM
I dont hate Ben. I am however dissapointed in him. I think the majority of fans probably feel the same way.

That being said I have to admit that I have a sense of pride in the Rooneys attention to principle. Ben is a "part" that is not bigger than the "whole". To be honest...I would rather suffer a period of adjustment without Ben...then to be dissapoointed in a persona that I have always associated with the Steelers organization.

If Ben stays...He needs to get it together.
If he goes...well...I am a bigger fan of the Steelers than I am a fan of Ben.

Others can have their opinions and I respect that...this is just the way I feel.

Exactly. :thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:

Personally, I think this is all being pushed out there to drive home to Ben the reality of his actions and consequences. I don't think Ben would be traded, nor do I really want him traded.

HAWK
04-21-2010, 04:06 PM
I think the whole thing is a bit severe. How does Vick with a 2yr prison sentence end up with two games while Ben gets six? Now talks of trades? Jesus, the media the FO need to all calm down. Of course they could just be trying to send a message to Ben.

steeltheone
04-21-2010, 04:06 PM
Would take that deal without hesitation.

NJarhead
04-21-2010, 04:07 PM
Any Steeler fan that wants Ben traded can go **** themselves... .and you can tell the Rooneys I said that.


Relax buddy, I think fans who actually "want" a trade are few and far between.

I'm not going to question any owners with 6 Lombardi's myself. It's their product, and they've done a good job for a long time. It's just not my place.

MACH1
04-21-2010, 04:07 PM
You's a ho. :hug:











Wanna do it in the bathroom?

DTF :chuckle:

HAWK
04-21-2010, 04:10 PM
Ben needs a publicist.

Prok
04-21-2010, 04:10 PM
DO NOT TRADE OUR FRANCHISE QB. I WILL FIND A WAY TO KICK YOU IN THE BALLS...............HARD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


:banging::banging::banging::banging::banging:

fansince'76
04-21-2010, 04:11 PM
Ben needs a publicist.

Ben needs to become Greta Garbo until TC.

Preacher
04-21-2010, 04:11 PM
I think the whole thing is a bit severe. How does Vick with a 2yr prison sentence end up with two games while Ben gets six? Now talks of trades? Jesus, the media the FO need to all calm down. Of course they could just be trying to send a message to Ben.

Because in reality, Vick was suspended for 2 years and an 8th of another... 2 years by the govt., the last eighth by the NFL. :chuckle:

Seriously, I DO think that factored into the decision quite a bit.

SteelersinCA
04-21-2010, 04:12 PM
DTF :chuckle:

I think we need a DTF emoticon!!!!!! :applaudit:

Fire Haley
04-21-2010, 04:12 PM
Dixon better put some meat on his skinny bones, he's gonna get hit a lot, that's what I say

http://www.realclearsports.com/blognetwork/fantasy_football_maniaxs/dennis_dixon.jpg

JCPsteelers
04-21-2010, 04:13 PM
Any Steeler fan that wants Ben traded can go **** themselves... .and you can tell the Rooneys I said that.

:thumbsup:

HAWK
04-21-2010, 04:14 PM
I don't think they should have suspended vick after prison either. I think 6 games is a bit much considering no crime was committed.

Burghfan58
04-21-2010, 04:14 PM
Time to move on. Ben will never be the same again in a Steeler uni. This will hit him hard. The booing fans the first time he stinks up a game will send him over the edge. JMO

Indo
04-21-2010, 04:15 PM
Said it before (in another thread) and I'll say it again:

Ben WILL NOT be traded
write it down

AndyWitmyer
04-21-2010, 04:15 PM
I think people are getting a little dramatic over this. If they release Ben, then they do. If they keep him, they keep him. Threatening to kick their balls won't change any of that. I wish people would relax and look at the situation with a level-head instead of allowing their emotions run wild. I support Ben as much as the next guy, but as I've said already, he might be worse than we know and if that's the case, the Rooneys might have little choice than to look for other options. They won'tt get rid of their franchise QB unless he really deserves it!

So, just let's just wait and see what happens and while we're at it, maybe leave the Rooneys testicles intact!

JCPsteelers
04-21-2010, 04:16 PM
bradford behind our o line = road kill

Exactly. I think Bradford could be good but he is way skinny and would get killed with our OL..

fansince'76
04-21-2010, 04:17 PM
Cue "Sky is Falling" cat....

pancake
04-21-2010, 04:17 PM
Exactly. :thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:

Personally, I think this is all being pushed out there to drive home to Ben the reality of his actions and consequences. I don't think Ben would be traded, nor do I really want him traded.

I hope you're right...

Burghfan58
04-21-2010, 04:17 PM
Dixon better put some meat on his skinny bones, he's gonna get hit a lot, that's what I say

http://www.realclearsports.com/blognetwork/fantasy_football_maniaxs/dennis_dixon.jpg

Agreed. Watched him at training camp last year. As the picture shows, his legs are like toothpicks. He will never make it through a whole season.

AndyWitmyer
04-21-2010, 04:18 PM
Wow Dixon is pretty skinny, espeially compared to the literally BIG (read: fat) Ben. Probably fast though.

msafford
04-21-2010, 04:19 PM
Cue "Sky is Falling" cat....

here you go.

http://pic70.picturetrail.com/VOL1850/7714131/14576471/330295574.jpg

steelreserve
04-21-2010, 04:19 PM
If you think we can make a Super Bowl without Ben, longless win one in the next ten years or so, I think you're kidding yourself...

OMG I'm not ready to go through the 80's & 90's again...

:puke:

I don't know. Seems like a lot of the "without Ben" arguments are more of the mentality of taking away his production and replacing it with Kordell Stewart, or with nothing at all -- not with another GOOD QB who will probably throw for 3,000+ yards and be somewhat competent at running the offense.

We're absolutely NOT going to just trade Ben and throw in a rookie or a journeyman and hope for the best. Yes -- that means that if we trade him, I DO NOT think our plan is to have Leftwich or Dixon as the starter for this season. We won't do it unless we have a decent replacement, and I think we're smart enough to realize that the '80s and '90s pattern is not going to fly.

Does it help to have a top-five QB? Absolutely. Do we need one to be competitive? Not really. We'd certainly take a hit in performance, but again, looking at 2008, there are probably 15 or so QBs that could have done WELL ENOUGH to get us to the Super Bowl if they played mistake-free and the rest of the team stayed intact. I don't see any reason why that's changed.

Edman
04-21-2010, 04:20 PM
Holy Shit. I mean, holy shit.

The Rooneys are not f*cking around.

Prok
04-21-2010, 04:20 PM
Said it before (in another thread) and I'll say it again:

Ben WILL NOT be traded
write it down

I sure hope youre right.

Another nightmarish thought: Bruce Arians calling plays WITHOUT Ben in there to improvise..............

Ugh, gotta throw up.

:mad: :mad:

RoethlisBURGHer
04-21-2010, 04:20 PM
And were supposed to believe a rape kit executed within hours of an alleged crime couldn't produce enough DNA markers to generate a profile that could be matched to an assailant.

I read a story last week where they identified the 60+ year old remains of a sailor killed at Pearl Harbour off DNA obtained from dried saliva collected off a stamp back from a letter he sent to his mother the day before the attack.

Yet here we're expected to believe they proccessed DNA that night that they could determine was male, but they couldn't detemine whether it could have been Ben's so they didn't bother to ask him for a sample? Right....

Try this as more likely, young missy knew it was male DNA but knew it wasn't Ben's and so did Bright and the GBI, that's why they never asked Ben for a sample.

That's exactly what I believe is the case here. Her and Ben ended up in the bathroom together. They started kissing, feeling up...whatever. Before it got further than that, in all of her drunkeness, she fell over and hit her head. Ben decided to go no further.

She got screwed by someone the night before, hell maybe the guy was her boyfriend. It's gonna get out that she was alone in the bathroom doing something with Big Ben. So instead of looking like a lil skank.....her friends tell her to claim rape which gets her off the hook with her BF and parents.

SMR
04-21-2010, 04:21 PM
This is just disgusting! Do the owners and front office brass want to lose again?
I would rather have a full team full of people who have been found innocent of any crimes...who wins all the time....over a bunch of people who have never been accused of anything and lose every week.

The man wasn't even charged.......thats what bugs me!

Same here!!

Busforever
04-21-2010, 04:22 PM
Because I'm a Steelers fan, I always supported Big Ben, our franchise QB. And I'm surprised to see how quickly fans are bashing a Steeler player who didn't even go against the law. I mean, as a fan, i love the team, and i love the players. Because the Rooney are so right, they don't sign players with character issues, right?
So as a Steelers fan who is rooting for Rooney's decisions, I'm rooting for the players they signed. And when a player is facing troubles, I fully support him, because I believe in him. I believe he's a good guy until we've got some evidence he's not. MANY fans seem to have no faith in our player, and that is shocking to me.

For now, what I see is Big Ben can also be a victim of 2 girls trying to get some money/baby off the star. It wouldn't be the first time we see that. What we KNOW, based on lack of evidence, is he's innocent.

I'm not blinded, I fully understand and support the suspension, because Big Ben put himself in a hurting situation for the team. But because he's innocent, i think the trade would be too much, and that Big Ben is unfairly judged by the fans.

I believe Big Ben is not a "sexual predator",. He's doing the same things than many young single men. He's immature, because he didn't understand he can't put him in situations like that, as a public person and Steeler ambassador. But he's not a monster ("sexual predator"... if it bleeds, we can kill it! And kill millions of single men by the way)

Just my 2 cents

Prok
04-21-2010, 04:23 PM
I do not want to go trough a re-building phase yet. We have a team FULL of playoff and SB experienced vets.

Asking Leftwich or Batch to keep us in contention until some youngster develops is wayyyyyy too much imo.

Keep the franchise QB we have and COMPETE.

Steel_12
04-21-2010, 04:24 PM
IS it, really?

yeah it is...Vick was suspended before his prison sentence. Ray Lewis didn't murder anybody. I hate Steelers fans who still say this.

Men of Steel
04-21-2010, 04:24 PM
I think people are getting a little dramatic over this. If they release Ben, then they do. If they keep him, they keep him. Threatening to kick their balls won't change any of that. I wish people would relax and look at the situation with a level-head instead of allowing their emotions run wild. I support Ben as much as the next guy, but as I've said already, he might be worse than we know and if that's the case, the Rooneys might have little choice than to look for other options. They won'tt get rid of their franchise QB unless he really deserves it!

So, just let's just wait and see what happens and while we're at it, maybe leave the Rooneys testicles intact!

this... is very true. i wish everyone thought this way.

cuz its the truth.

Fire Haley
04-21-2010, 04:24 PM
Maddox and Kordell and O'Donnell and Tomzack

Oh what fun awaits.

SMR
04-21-2010, 04:25 PM
I don't think they should have suspended vick after prison either. I think 6 games is a bit much considering no crime was committed.

But that is what annoys me. He wasn't even CHARGED of a crime. IMO he should have gotten a two game suspension and counseling/behavorial program completion.

OneForTheToe
04-21-2010, 04:26 PM
Yep, and I slept with Jessica Alba and Megan Fox last night. It's true, just because I say so.
__________________


weak....i hit both of them, same time, w/scarlett johannsen tagging in, with all three of their moms cheering me on, last night. add to that the use of a whole lot of pecan sandies and nutter butters.

No way. :cooldude: How were they?

RoethlisBURGHer
04-21-2010, 04:27 PM
If Ben gets traded or released, so be it. I trust Art Rooney to do what he feels is best for the Steelers.

I don't think that he's going to be traded or cut. The Steelers are in the business of winning football games, they don't do that nearly as well without Ben Roethlisberger. The Steelers do have a history of keeping around troubled players when they are super important to the team's success. They don't get any more important than Ben Roethlisberger, IMHO.

If they do trade him, they aren't trading him for a fifth round draft pick. They are going to get at least a top 10 pick if not more.

I think Art Rooney knows how important a franchise QB is to winning the Super Bowl. If he trades our current one away, he isn't going to wait 20+ years until this team has another one.

Prok
04-21-2010, 04:28 PM
But that is what annoys me. He wasn't even CHARGED of a crime. IMO he should have gotten a two game suspension and counseling/behavorial program completion.

I feel the same.

If we trade him we will be basically saying we are better than him and do not want to help him get better. Bad precedent IMO.