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View Full Version : The Communist Takeover Of America - 45 Declared Goals


Vincent
04-13-2010, 10:44 AM
Well it looks like they've accomplished just about everything on the list. They hadn't envisioned having one of them occupying the White House though.

Communist Goals (1963) Congressional Record--Appendix, pp. A34-A35 January 10, 1963

Current Communist Goals EXTENSION OF REMARKS OF HON. A. S. HERLONG, JR. OF FLORIDA IN THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES Thursday, January 10, 1963 .

Mr. HERLONG. Mr. Speaker, Mrs. Patricia Nordman of De Land, Fla., is an ardent and articulate opponent of communism, and until recently published the De Land Courier, which she dedicated to the purpose of alerting the public to the dangers of communism in America.

At Mrs. Nordman's request, I include in the RECORD, under unanimous consent, the following "Current Communist Goals," which she identifies as an excerpt from "The Naked Communist," by Cleon Skousen:

[From "The Naked Communist," by Cleon Skousen]

1. U.S. acceptance of coexistence as the only alternative to atomic war.

2. U.S. willingness to capitulate in preference to engaging in atomic war.

3. Develop the illusion that total disarmament [by] the United States would be a demonstration of moral strength.

4. Permit free trade between all nations regardless of Communist affiliation and regardless of whether or not items could be used for war.

5. Extension of long-term loans to Russia and Soviet satellites.

6. Provide American aid to all nations regardless of Communist domination.

7. Grant recognition of Red China. Admission of Red China to the U.N.

8. Set up East and West Germany as separate states in spite of Khrushchev's promise in 1955 to settle the German question by free elections under supervision of the U.N.

9. Prolong the conferences to ban atomic tests because the United States has agreed to suspend tests as long as negotiations are in progress.

10. Allow all Soviet satellites individual representation in the U.N.

11. Promote the U.N. as the only hope for mankind. If its charter is rewritten, demand that it be set up as a one-world government with its own independent armed forces. (Some Communist leaders believe the world can be taken over as easily by the U.N. as by Moscow. Sometimes these two centers compete with each other as they are now doing in the Congo.)

12. Resist any attempt to outlaw the Communist Party.

13. Do away with all loyalty oaths.

14. Continue giving Russia access to the U.S. Patent Office.

15. Capture one or both of the political parties in the United States.

16. Use technical decisions of the courts to weaken basic American institutions by claiming their activities violate civil rights.

17. Get control of the schools. Use them as transmission belts for socialism and current Communist propaganda. Soften the curriculum. Get control of teachers' associations. Put the party line in textbooks.

18. Gain control of all student newspapers.

19. Use student riots to foment public protests against programs or organizations which are under Communist attack.

20. Infiltrate the press. Get control of book-review assignments, editorial writing, policy-making positions.

21. Gain control of key positions in radio, TV, and motion pictures.

22. Continue discrediting American culture by degrading all forms of artistic expression. An American Communist cell was told to "eliminate all good sculpture from parks and buildings, substitute shapeless, awkward and meaningless forms."

23. Control art critics and directors of art museums. "Our plan is to promote ugliness, repulsive, meaningless art."

24. Eliminate all laws governing obscenity by calling them "censorship" and a violation of free speech and free press.

25. Break down cultural standards of morality by promoting pornography and obscenity in books, magazines, motion pictures, radio, and TV.

26. Present homosexuality, degeneracy and promiscuity as "normal, natural, healthy."

27. Infiltrate the churches and replace revealed religion with "social" religion. Discredit the Bible and emphasize the need for intellectual maturity, which does not need a "religious crutch."

28. Eliminate prayer or any phase of religious expression in the schools on the ground that it violates the principle of "separation of church and state."

29. Discredit the American Constitution by calling it inadequate, old-fashioned, out of step with modern needs, a hindrance to cooperation between nations on a worldwide basis.

30. Discredit the American Founding Fathers. Present them as selfish aristocrats who had no concern for the "common man."

31. Belittle all forms of American culture and discourage the teaching of American history on the ground that it was only a minor part of the "big picture." Give more emphasis to Russian history since the Communists took over.

32. Support any socialist movement to give centralized control over any part of the culture--education, social agencies, welfare programs, mental health clinics, etc.

33. Eliminate all laws or procedures which interfere with the operation of the Communist apparatus.

34. Eliminate the House Committee on Un-American Activities.

35. Discredit and eventually dismantle the FBI.

36. Infiltrate and gain control of more unions.

37. Infiltrate and gain control of big business.

38. Transfer some of the powers of arrest from the police to social agencies. Treat all behavioral problems as psychiatric disorders which no one but psychiatrists can understand [or treat].

39. Dominate the psychiatric profession and use mental health laws as a means of gaining coercive control over those who oppose Communist goals.

40. Discredit the family as an institution. Encourage promiscuity and easy divorce.

41. Emphasize the need to raise children away from the negative influence of parents. Attribute prejudices, mental blocks and retarding of children to suppressive influence of parents.

42. Create the impression that violence and insurrection are legitimate aspects of the American tradition; that students and special-interest groups should rise up and use ["]united force["] to solve economic, political or social problems.

43. Overthrow all colonial governments before native populations are ready for self-government.

44. Internationalize the Panama Canal.

45. Repeal the Connally reservation so the United States cannot prevent the World Court from seizing jurisdiction [over domestic problems. Give the World Court jurisdiction] over nations and individuals alike.

Leftoverhard
04-13-2010, 09:13 PM
They forgot #46

46. Breed with humans and/or take their shape after arriving from the planet Coocoo in the solar system Lostyourmind.

Vincent
04-13-2010, 10:21 PM
That list got you all chubby didn't it Lefty? :wave:

43Hitman
04-13-2010, 10:25 PM
They forgot #46

46. Breed with humans and/or take their shape after arriving from the planet Coocoo in the solar system Lostyourmind.

So are you refuting or deflecting with this comment? Because if you really read that list and did some research ( I know it may take some self-motivation, but I believe in you :thumbsup:) you would find that a lot of those goals on that list have been met.

SteelCityMom
04-13-2010, 10:32 PM
Some of them are rather vague. 25 is my favorite. I like porn and obscenity...does that make me a commie?

:nervous:

43Hitman
04-13-2010, 10:35 PM
Some of them are rather vague. 25 is my favorite. I like porn...does that make me a commie?

:nervous:

:rofl:No that makes you horny and vulgar..lol

Leftoverhard
04-13-2010, 10:47 PM
if you really read that list and did some research ( I know it may take some self-motivation, but I believe in you :thumbsup:) you would find that a lot of those goals on that list have been met.

Go ahead, I'm waiting. Which goals have been met? Please include facts from more than one source. :blah: :blah: :blah:

SteelCityMom
04-13-2010, 10:50 PM
:rofl:No that makes you horny and vulgar..lol


Awesome...as long as commies aren't horny and vulgar I'm cool with that! :thumbsup:

Vincent
04-13-2010, 10:59 PM
Go ahead, I'm waiting. Which goals have been met? Please include facts from more than one source. :blah: :blah: :blah:

Always waiting for handouts.

Unless you came down with the last rain, you'd be aware that all but 8, 35, and 45 have been substantially accomplished.

8 is now irrelevant, 35 has been severely breached several times and compromised. 45 is a "work in progress".

You guys have been busy, busy, busy. And the Americans are still here.

tony hipchest
04-13-2010, 11:01 PM
:rolleyes:

so when should we expect the mass slaughter of 28,000,000 registurd republickans?

GBMelBlount
04-13-2010, 11:12 PM
you'd be aware that all but 8, 35, and 45 have been substantially accomplished.

8 is now irrelevant, 35 has been severely breached several times and compromised. 45 is a "work in progress".



Sorry Vincent, I don't get it?

Significant progress has been made in 42 of the 45 stated goals of the communist party in the last 50 years?

I thought there were primarily just two political parties in America, democrats and republicans.

So how could this have happened?

tony hipchest
04-14-2010, 12:39 AM
Sorry Vincent, I don't get it?
would you then agree that i am not suprized?


So how could this have happenedwhat exactly has happened? please friend, do tell me that you dont declare the united states of america a communist state? wouldnt you agree that only a fool would believe we are operating under a system where a stalin like dictator rules?

you do know you have the freedom and liberty to run for president in '12 right?

or do you deny this FACT?

Borski
04-14-2010, 01:07 AM
would you then agree that i am not suprized?

what exactly has happened? please friend, do tell me that you dont declare the united states of america a communist state? wouldnt you agree that only a fool would believe we are operating under a system where a stalin like dictator rules?

you do know you have the freedom and liberty to run for president in '12 right?

or do you deny this FACT?

I think he was agreeing with you. I don't think anyone thinks many of thous goals have been meet.

Even though I oppose alot of the policy making in this administration I still believe this is the most free and greatest country in existence.

tony hipchest
04-14-2010, 01:21 AM
I think he was agreeing with you. I don't think anyone thinks many of thous goals have been meet.

Even though I oppose alot of the policy making in this administration I still believe this is the most free and greatest country in existence.nope. GBMel will be the second to believe that ALL of those goals have been met. vincent will be the 1st. :coffee: i will leave it to them to explain why we are no longer the free and greatest country in the world (as that is the stance they have wed).

in the meantime, as crazy as it sounds, since there really are people who think we are a communist nation, i offer them reynolds wrap, to formulate a hat. while the crumpled helmet will work, i would suggest the triangular aluminum "pirate hat" which has stealth properties.

i can understand their worry and dilemma, being that the GOP has failed them and offers no viable alternative (other than the palin/rush ticket in '12).

they are really worried and i cannot blame them, but their vision of only allowing republicans to vote, and only republicans to hold office is contrary to the freedoms and liberties our forefathers envisioned.

SteelCityMom
04-14-2010, 02:24 AM
And in case any one else didn't notice (yeah, I know, I'm a perv) 24 and 25 totally offset each other. How can you promote pornography and obscenity in books, magazines, motion pictures, radio, and TV while eliminating all laws governing obscenity by calling them "censorship" and a violation of free speech and free press. Maybe it's just me, but that doesn't make a whole lot of sense.

Many of the rest, as I've said, are very vague and I'm sure I can find examples for and against both...minus a few.

ricardisimo
04-14-2010, 06:56 AM
The chasm between Vincent's capacity to rationally dissect other people's beliefs and ideas on the one hand (hit or miss doesn't matter), and his inability to turn that scalpel inward on the other... we're talking Pacific Ocean here.

I've met many people from various parties who would qualify - either by self-declaration or by ideology - as communists. I view them in almost exactly the same way I view Christians: I agree on almost nothing with them, yet I can't help but admire their determination and organizational skills.

There is a big difference between communists and Christians: one of them are the overwhelming majority in this country across almost every demographic, while the other doesn't break one percent, being restricted to retired union organizers and a handful of very well-paid Ivy League professors. How this latter group could be achieving such levels of success is truly a marvel.

Where did this list come from, exactly? This sounds like The Protocols of the Elders of Lenin, or some other bogus "source".

Venom
04-14-2010, 07:13 AM
Did the countdown start for the departure of NObama and his Democraps yet ?

Indo
04-14-2010, 09:34 AM
Actually, W. Cleon Skousen is a pretty reputable author who does his homework when he writes something...

I have suggested on multiple occasions that everyone who has any interest at all in these United States should read the first book in the link (I know, you hate Glenn Beck, blahblahblah. Get over it. He only wrote the forward. Skip that part and read the rest of the book). I have yet to read "The Naked Communist" (where this post comes from) or "The Naked Capitalist", but they are on my list


http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=cleon+skousen&x=21&y=20

Vincent
04-14-2010, 10:22 AM
Sorry Vincent, I don't get it?
Significant progress has been made in 42 of the 45 stated goals of the communist party in the last 50 years?
I thought there were primarily just two political parties in America, democrats and republicans.
So how could this have happened?
The bolsheviks overtook Russia by co-opting a popular revolution. They consolidated their position and power by eliminating all opposition, including the revolutionaries. They held their power through the unrestricted violence of the cheka (NKVD, KGB, FSB, etc, depending on the era). That approach would never be successful in the United States. The strength of our society is that we are an open society, but it is also our weakness. Their agenda is tailored for an open society and they have used that weakness deftly against us.

The donkeys since the time of Wilson have been moving toward global gubmint and socialism. The sovs easily infiltrated and used that party to achieve their agenda.

Norman Thomas, the six time presidential candidate of the socialist party noted that “The American people will never knowingly adopt Socialism. But under the name of 'liberalism' they will adopt every fragment of the Socialist program, until one day America will be a Socialist nation, without knowing how it happened”. Having witnessed the wholesale donkey adoption of socialism, he said in 1944 "I no longer need to run as a Presidential Candidate for the Socialist Party. The Democratic Party has adopted our platform”. Another Thomas observation…"The difference between Democrats and Republicans is: Democrats have accepted some ideas of Socialism cheerfully, while Republicans have accepted them reluctantly"

nope. GBMel will be the second to believe that ALL of those goals have been met. vincent will be the 1st. :coffee: i will leave it to them to explain why we are no longer the free and greatest country in the world (as that is the stance they have wed).
in the meantime, as crazy as it sounds, since there really are people who think we are a communist nation, i offer them reynolds wrap, to formulate a hat. while the crumpled helmet will work, i would suggest the triangular aluminum "pirate hat" which has stealth properties.
Tony, you know I didn’t say or even suggest that we are a “communist” country. What I did say was “Well it looks like they've accomplished just about everything on the list. They hadn't envisioned having one of them occupying the White House though”. This is not an aluminum hat perspective. The communist agenda was taken from 1963 Congressional Record--Appendix, pp. A34-A35 January 10, 1963 as articulated by the late Rep. Patricia Nordman who was astutely pointing out the dangers of communism in America.

And in case any one else didn't notice (yeah, I know, I'm a perv) 24 and 25 totally offset each other. How can you promote pornography and obscenity in books, magazines, motion pictures, radio, and TV while eliminating all laws governing obscenity by calling them "censorship" and a violation of free speech and free press. Maybe it's just me, but that doesn't make a whole lot of sense.
I think if you reread 24 and 25, and what you wrote about them, you’ll discover that they are supportive of each other.

There is a big difference between communists and Christians: one of them are the overwhelming majority in this country across almost every demographic, while the other doesn't break one percent, being restricted to retired union organizers and a handful of very well-paid Ivy League professors. How this latter group could be achieving such levels of success is truly a marvel.
It is indeed a marvel, and that 1% were the leaven. It was and is a long term grand strategy. We don’t think in those terms. Try this. The Japanese look at markets in 20+ year terms. They flooded our markets in the 50s and 60s with what we used to call cheap Japanese junk. They established their markets then expanded upward. 50 years later Americans view Japanese products as among the best in the world and line up to pay top dollar for them. That wisdom was not lost on the chicomms, BTW. The sovs took the same approach – incrementalism. Long term. Patience. We slowly adopted their agenda over a century to the point that now people laugh when someone suggests that a Stalinist occupies the White House.

Where did this list come from, exactly? This sounds like The Protocols of the Elders of Lenin, or some other bogus "source".
Ric, did you even bother to read the first post?

I didn’t post this because I thought it would be embraced, or to gain “popularity”. Most of you are younger and haven’t seen this evolve. You have been fed the gubmint line in public schools. This is a historical perspective that is missing from discourse of the times. If you actually examine each of the 45 points on the agenda against what has happened over the last century, you’ll see where we are in the timeline of their strategy. Much of what is going on today will start to make sense.

For those that lack historical perspective, the pot is about to boil and we are the frog.

Hammer67
04-14-2010, 10:52 AM
Vince,

While I like to think that it isn't quite as bad as some make it out to be, there is too much evidence to the contrary, especially if you have followed American political history in the 20th century up until today. The fact that the left vehemently challenges these notions as “crazy” or “racist” in the face of irrefutable evidence is actually a sign that there is some truth to this. As if a nerve has been touched. If you were a casual Democrat, you wouldn’t want to admit you were part of this transition, too.

It’s like a battered wife who keeps sticking up for her abusive husband.

SteelCityMom
04-14-2010, 10:53 AM
I think if you reread 24 and 25, and what you wrote about them, you’ll discover that they are supportive of each other.


In a way they are I guess. Just as long as me liking porn and movies with obscenity doesn't make me a commie, I'm cool with it. I don't like laws governing obscenity anyways.

ricardisimo
04-14-2010, 11:16 AM
If you actually examine each of the 45 points on the agenda against what has happened over the last century, you’ll see where we are in the timeline of their strategy. Much of what is going on today will start to make sense.

For those that lack historical perspective, the pot is about to boil and we are the frog.

OK, we can go through point-by-point. Did any of these things come to pass? Infiltrate Big Business? Huh? This sort of thing is why I say the world has been turned on its head.

And what do any of these things have to do with communism, collectivism or socialism? Promiscuity and divorce? The Panama Canal? Nuclear disarmament? What the hell, dude...

I know you want to avoid simply being labeled a kook, but the only thing that all of these things have in common is precisely the kookoo for Cocoa Puffs. It's like me randomly clipping words out of the dictionary and articles out of the newspaper and blaming fluoridated water.

lamberts-lost-tooth
04-14-2010, 11:27 AM
I know you want to avoid simply being labeled a kook, but the only thing that all of these things have in common is precisely the kookoo for Cocoa Puffs. It's like me randomly clipping words out of the dictionary and articles out of the newspaper and blaming fluoridated water.

Or making up facts about guerilla tactics...biblical truths....etc.

:chuckle:

Vincent
04-14-2010, 11:37 AM
OK, we can go through point-by-point. Did any of these things come to pass?
As has been previously noted, 42 of 45 conclusively.
Infiltrate Big Business? Huh?
Are Boris and Natasha running GE? No. Graduates of “higher education” are. As you noted previously, communist ideals are alive and well in those “hallowed” halls. Those ideals have shaped American “education” for the better part of a century.
And what do any of these things have to do with communism, collectivism or socialism? Promiscuity and divorce? The Panama Canal? Nuclear disarmament? What the hell, dude...
Patience Vincent.

If one’s agenda were to destroy the family, promiscuity and divorce would be an active ingredient. China controls the Panama Canal. “Nuclear disarmament”?? Are you serious? For someone who proclaims his anarchism, you’ve certainly been intoxicated by their pablum.
I know you want to avoid simply being labeled a kook, but the only thing that all of these things have in common is precisely the kookoo for Cocoa Puffs.
Ric, that I disagree with the left automatically gets me the “racist / bigot / homophobe” label. “Kook”, by contrast, is almost flattering.

43Hitman
04-14-2010, 04:59 PM
Go ahead, I'm waiting. Which goals have been met? Please include facts from more than one source. :blah: :blah: :blah:



Pro tip:

Do your own research..You'll learn so much more that way.

Vincent
04-14-2010, 05:33 PM
Pro tip:

Do your own research..You'll learn so much more that way.

Lefty doesn't want to be confused by facts. His mind is made up.

7SteelGal43
04-14-2010, 06:02 PM
That list got you all chubby didn't it Lefty? :wave:

:rofl:

Leftoverhard
04-14-2010, 06:10 PM
Hitman - Here's the dictionary definition of your style of post (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/copout). It's classic deflection. You'll notice I did the work for you so you know what the words mean. I wouldn't want to put you out.

Vincent - It's the definition of irresponsible to post threads like yours without being prepared to back your theories up. You do have about 5 cult followers on this message board - and there's no doubt in my mind that they would follow you to the jungles of Guyana at the snap of your fingers - but I'm still amazed at how easily you fold when asked to give examples of your extremist views. Your moon may be made of cheese - but the rest of us know it's a rock. If you want anyone (other than your followers) to hear your plight, you need to do better. Like produce some of these "facts" you seem privy to.
Oh, I got proof (http://www.sacbee.com/2010/03/30/2642158/gop-paid-strip-club-tab.html) that #26 has been accomplished (by accomplished you mean "America has been successfully turned 1/40th of the way to becoming commie, right?). Don't worry - I can prove the rest for you if you still can't be bothered.

SteelGal - Almost left you out. I'm still a bit baffled by you. I guess you think that Vincent and his ilk accept you for your lifestyle. See #26 - and you must have missed his lovely posts on gay nazis.... :noidea:

NJarhead
04-14-2010, 06:40 PM
Hitman - Here's the dictionary definition of your style of post (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/copout). It's classic deflection. You'll notice I did the work for you so you know what the words mean. I wouldn't want to put you out.

Vincent - It's the definition of irresponsible to post threads like yours without being prepared to back your theories up. You do have about 5 cult followers on this message board - and there's no doubt in my mind that they would follow you to the jungles of Guyana at the snap of your fingers - but I'm still amazed at how easily you fold when asked to give examples of your extremist views. Your moon may be made of cheese - but the rest of us know it's a rock. If you want anyone (other than your followers) to hear your plight, you need to do better. Like produce some of these "facts" you seem privy to.
Oh, I got proof (http://www.sacbee.com/2010/03/30/2642158/gop-paid-strip-club-tab.html) that #26 has been accomplished (by accomplished you mean "America has been successfully turned 1/40th of the way to becoming commie, right?). Don't worry - I can prove the rest for you if you still can't be bothered.

SteelGal - Almost left you out. I'm still a bit baffled by you. I guess you think that Vincent and his ilk accept you for your lifestyle. See #26 - and you must have missed his lovely posts on gay nazis.... :noidea:

Oooh! where's mine? Can I have one too?

While you're at it, post yours as well.

:coffee:

Leftoverhard
04-14-2010, 06:49 PM
While you're at it, post yours as well.


Is that like "I'll show you mine if you show me yours?"

How many times do I have to tell you, I'm not interested.

Seriously, what? This isn't my thread. Next.

NJarhead
04-14-2010, 06:57 PM
Is that like "I'll show you mine if you show me yours?"

How many times do I have to tell you, I'm not interested.

Seriously, what? This isn't my thread. Next.


Really, you didn't understand my request? :doh:

And what is it with you and retardismo and the constant assumption of gay come-ons? Personally, I wouldn't have a problem with either one of you because you're gay.

I have a problem with you because you're a socialist and I have a problem with re-re because he offers nothing, but requires constant attention. Like a rebellious teenager.

43Hitman
04-14-2010, 07:04 PM
They forgot #46

46. Breed with humans and/or take their shape after arriving from the planet Coocoo in the solar system Lostyourmind.

First you posted this (second post of the thread mind you) Then when asked if you could refute the post you retort with this little dandy.



Hitman - Here's the dictionary definition of your style of post (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/copout). It's classic deflection. You'll notice I did the work for you so you know what the words mean. I wouldn't want to put you out.

So are you going to refute the OP with facts or are you going to play Lefty games and keep saying "No you"?

Come on Frank, you can do better than that. Can't you?

NJarhead
04-14-2010, 07:06 PM
First you posted this (second post of the thread mind you) Then when asked if you could refute the post you retort with this little dandy.



So are you going to refute the OP with facts or are you going to play Lefty games and keep saying "No you"?

Come on Frank, you can do better than that. Can't you?


Don't get your hopes up. ... lol, "hope."

Leftoverhard
04-14-2010, 07:39 PM
First you posted this (second post of the thread mind you) Then when asked if you could refute the post you retort with this little dandy.



So are you going to refute the OP with facts or are you going to play Lefty games and keep saying "No you"?

Come on Frank, you can do better than that. Can't you?

What are you asking me to refute? The original post isn't mine; that's like asking me to explain why the color green is green....
Let me make sure I got this straight - Vincent posts a lunatic list that is amusing at best and you want me to prove why he isn't right? What kind of juice are you drinking? And while I'm at it, what have you offered to this thread?

WarDen - For a guy who claims to gain his knowledge from history books, you sure have a hard time reading these threads before posting. Not that I blame you for skimping on this highly intellectual thread - but if you're gonna play, you should read it all.

NJarhead
04-14-2010, 07:56 PM
WarDen - For a guy who claims to gain his knowledge from history books, you sure have a hard time reading these threads before posting. Not that I blame you for skimping on this highly intellectual thread - but if you're gonna play, you should read it all.

All I was after was a link to describe my style of post (in your eyes). Then I wanted you to provide one describing your style of post.

Do I really need to read a whole thread for that? I think I've read enough of your posts to know that you could probably produce some kind of web-ready BS from one of your many sources o' BS.

If it's too much trouble, forget it. I'll go back to my history books. I'm actually studying China's One-Child Policy at the moment. They need you over there ya know.?.? :chuckle:

Vincent
04-14-2010, 08:00 PM
Vincent - It's the definition of irresponsible to post threads like yours without being prepared to back your theories up.

It can be the definition of whatever is banging around in your little pin head. "Be prepared"? And you are? :jerkit: in your hat.
Select any point in the agenda you wish to challenge. Do your homework. Prepare your points, if you have any, well. We'll discuss.

[You do have about 5 cult followers on this message board - and there's no doubt in my mind that they would follow you to the jungles of Guyana at the snap of your fingers -

My only follower is my dog. But she just glares when I snap my fingers. Jungle? Is that like a "rain forest"?

SteelGal - Almost left you out. I'm still a bit baffled by you. I guess you think that Vincent and his ilk accept you for your lifestyle. See #26 - and you must have missed his lovely posts on gay nazis.... :noidea:

We've had SteelGal vetted. She isn't a "gay nazi".

43Hitman
04-14-2010, 08:07 PM
What are you asking me to refute? The original post isn't mine; that's like asking me to explain why the color green is green....
Let me make sure I got this straight - Vincent posts a lunatic list that is amusing at best and you want me to prove why he isn't right? What kind of juice are you drinking? And while I'm at it, what have you offered to this thread?

WarDen - For a guy who claims to gain his knowledge from history books, you sure have a hard time reading these threads before posting. Not that I blame you for skimping on this highly intellectual thread - but if you're gonna play, you should read it all.


Well, when you proclaim this thread as lunacy and that Vincent is wrong, then the onus is on you to substantiate your claim. You just can't say, "Hey! You're wrong and a lunatic." And then just walk away and not expect someone to ask why you feel that way. Come on man, I thought you were bigger than this. I guess I was wrong. :noidea:At least Vincent provided a source for his information. What have you provided?

43Hitman
04-14-2010, 08:09 PM
Don't get your hopes up. ... lol, "hope."

:chuckle:

MasterOfPuppets
04-14-2010, 08:47 PM
:toofunny: .... everybody knows the key to a proper communism take over is you must control the art world !!!!

22. Continue discrediting American culture by degrading all forms of artistic expression. An American Communist cell was told to "eliminate all good sculpture from parks and buildings, substitute shapeless, awkward and meaningless forms."

23. Control art critics and directors of art museums. "Our plan is to promote ugliness, repulsive, meaningless art."

43Hitman
04-14-2010, 08:53 PM
:toofunny: .... everybody knows the key to a proper communism take over is you must control the art world !!!!

So art has never been used for propaganda?

tony hipchest
04-14-2010, 09:06 PM
So art has never been used for propaganda?

rush limbaugh has mastered the art of being an ass with his ugly, repulsive and meaningless propoganda.

does this mean he is commie controlled?

MasterOfPuppets
04-14-2010, 09:15 PM
So art has never been used for propaganda?
oh...you mean like the paintings of jesus being a white blonde haired fella ? :noidea:

43Hitman
04-14-2010, 09:32 PM
It's a simple question, not some elaborate trap. Shit, I've been posting with you guys for years now, you know that's not my style. The fact is that art has been used as propaganda from both sides. So it really isn't that silly to foresee some agenda that can/has/will use art for the purpose of pushing said agenda.

SteelCityMom
04-14-2010, 09:35 PM
It's a simple question, not some elaborate trap. Shit, I've been posting with you guys for years now, you know that's not my style. The fact is that art has been used as propaganda from both sides. So it really isn't that silly to foresee some agenda that can/has/will use art for the purpose of pushing said agenda.

Art has changed over time though, and abstract art (like is being described in the list) isn't anything new.

Vincent
04-14-2010, 09:45 PM
Art has changed over time though, and abstract art (like is being described in the list) isn't anything new.

http://www.americasrepublicmilitia.net/images/barack%20obama%20propaganda.jpg

True.

Leftoverhard
04-14-2010, 09:50 PM
Vincent - Let me ask you this - are you trying to portray that this list is an actual document of communist intentions written by crazy commies somewhere? Is it written by a scholar or expert on the subject? Or is it written by a crazy old man who had red fever in the 1950's?

There are a lot of people who don't like something - but to take this as a serious text is reaching. It's a sensational bit of opinion, nothing more. And the other thing - if I made a list of 40 things that might happen in the world over the next 70 years, I'll bet a few of them "come true." That's what this is. And to put any stock in this and actually use it as a serious reference is just strange. The whole "liberals are secret infiltrating communists" connection that you (and other extremists, I'll give you that, you aren't alone) keep trying to make - falls flat. It's a bunch of conspiracy theory hot air. I don't need to cite anything to refute this. It refutes itself and my opinion stands as my opinion just like this thing you posted.

So art has never been used for propaganda?

Look at the title of this thread again. It's not "Some propaganda may have occurred once" It's a bit more specific than that.

Come on man, I thought you were bigger than this.

No you didn't. :hatsoff:

43Hitman
04-14-2010, 09:57 PM
Examples of modern propaganda:

http://i459.photobucket.com/albums/qq312/43hitman/Propagandaposter3.jpg

http://i459.photobucket.com/albums/qq312/43hitman/Propagandaposter2.jpg

http://i459.photobucket.com/albums/qq312/43hitman/Propagandaposter1.jpg


http://i459.photobucket.com/albums/qq312/43hitman/scott-hansen-obama-poster.jpg

Vincent
04-14-2010, 09:58 PM
The fact is that art has been used as propaganda from both sides.

http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m248/Thunder-Pig/53b10ec0.jpghttp://kozinets.net/__oneclick_uploads/2008/10/obama_poster_hitler_yesweca.gifhttp://seekeronos.blogsome.com/images/Obamajugend.jpghttp://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k291/KingShamus/wannaknowhowigottheseczars.jpghttp://thepeoplescube.com/images/Obama_Posters_All.gif

And one of my favorites...
http://s647.photobucket.com/albums/uu191/vinnyq/PWNEDav.jpg

SteelCityMom
04-14-2010, 10:10 PM
Wow...when did propaganda and art become the same thing?

Vincent, I'm surprised. I know you can read. You know what was posted in the list you provided specifically states that "abstract, ugly, shapeless" art forms/sculptures will be promoted, and you start posting propaganda photos in response to that?

FYI...that's not art, that's photoshop.

Is it possible that you just don't have any knowledge of art history?

Picasso must have been the biggest commie going by what the OP states.

http://vivirlatino.com/i/2007/09/picasso31.JPG


https://oncourse.iu.edu/access/content/user/rreagan/Filemanager_Public_Files/picasso_guernica.jpg

MasterOfPuppets
04-14-2010, 10:13 PM
Examples of modern propaganda:

] i thought we were talking about art, you know,like paintings done with a brush, sculptures ? not computer made graphics...:noidea:

Leftoverhard
04-14-2010, 10:42 PM
1. U.S. acceptance of coexistence as the only alternative to atomic war.

coexistence with who? The rest of the world?

2. U.S. willingness to capitulate in preference to engaging in atomic war.

I'm going to take that as meaning to surrender. No, we haven't surrendered. Reagan and Bush the 1st backed down to end the cold war though. I guess in extremist conservative terms, you would call that surrendering. :noidea:

3. Develop the illusion that total disarmament the United States would be a demonstration of moral strength.

:noidea:

4. Permit free trade between all nations regardless of Communist affiliation and regardless of whether or not items could be used for war.

[B]I have a hard time believing that even you Vincent can find an angle on pinning this on the liberals. Please, go ahead. Free trade means something VERY different than it did in the 50's when this guy wrote this. Free trade is a capitalist affair, a globalization idea. Communists are against it.

5. Extension of long-term loans to Russia and Soviet satellites.

Oh.

6. Provide American aid to all nations regardless of Communist domination.

Like many others on this list - how does this prove the "communist takeover of America?"

7. Grant recognition of Red China. Admission of Red China to the U.N.

1971, it came true. And that makes the US communist because...?

8. Set up East and West Germany as separate states in spite of Khrushchev's promise in 1955 to settle the German question by free elections under supervision of the U.N.

:noidea:

9. Prolong the conferences to ban atomic tests because the United States has agreed to suspend tests as long as negotiations are in progress.

What? He really needed to be more specific here. I'm hungry.

10. Allow all Soviet satellites individual representation in the U.N.

Is this for during the cold war or now? Two different times. How far is he predicting the future? 700 years or 7?

11. Promote the U.N. as the only hope for mankind. If its charter is rewritten, demand that it be set up as a one-world government with its own independent armed forces. (Some Communist leaders believe the world can be taken over as easily by the U.N. as by Moscow. Sometimes these two centers compete with each other as they are now doing in the Congo.)

No. Nope. Not.

12. Resist any attempt to outlaw the Communist Party.

This is America. I repeat. You love the Founding Fathers when they serve your agenda and spit on them when they don't.

13. Do away with all loyalty oaths.

Loyalty to......the Steelers? The POTUS? I don't get it.

14. Continue giving Russia access to the U.S. Patent Office.

So they can build communist contraptions for mind control? What are they going to (or already have...spooky) invent?

15. Capture one or both of the political parties in the United States.

Well, it's gotta be both as evidenced in the debauchery section in the mid 20's of this list... Wait, capture, like hold captive? You mean all the real politicians are being held hostage somewhere being tortured by Jack Bauer? Cool.

16. Use technical decisions of the courts to weaken basic American institutions by claiming their activities violate civil rights.

Civil rights movement was just getting started when this was fabricated. Civil rights were more important than ever at that time. Sounds like our man didn't like that. And besides - our American institutions are stronger than ever now - just look at McDonalds.

17. Get control of the schools. Use them as transmission belts for socialism and current Communist propaganda. Soften the curriculum. Get control of teachers' associations. Put the party line in textbooks.

Isn't that interesting. Put the party line in textbooks. Like in Texas? Looks like the Republicans might just be the party that got infiltrated by the commies (as gauged by this list) because that's exactly what's going on down in Texas.

18. Gain control of all student newspapers.

Nope.

19. Use student riots to foment public protests against programs or organizations which are under Communist attack.

Nope.

20. Infiltrate the press. Get control of book-review assignments, editorial writing, policy-making positions.

Glenn Beck. Rush Limbaugh. FOX news. Book reviews? Ok....next

21. Gain control of key positions in radio, TV, and motion pictures.

Ah, the Red Scare. What a scary time. Glad it's over. It was a witch hunt.

22. Continue discrediting American culture by degrading all forms of artistic expression. An American Communist cell was told to "eliminate all good sculpture from parks and buildings, substitute shapeless, awkward and meaningless forms."

This one - contradicts the one below it.

23. Control art critics and directors of art museums. "Our plan is to promote ugliness, repulsive, meaningless art."

This one - contradicts the one above. Shades of the nazi's "degenerate art (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Degenerate_art)."

24. Eliminate all laws governing obscenity by calling them "censorship" and a violation of free speech and free press.

We Americans love our porn. I guess we're all commies. Red Tube anyone? Gotta be commies.

25. Break down cultural standards of morality by promoting pornography and obscenity in books, magazines, motion pictures, radio, and TV.

He wrote this in the 50's. What a stifling time. We grew up.

26. Present homosexuality, degeneracy and promiscuity as "normal, natural, healthy."

Homosexuality is normal, natural and healthy.
Degeneracy is an outdated term. It was used to describe anyone who didn't fit the bill, the cookie cutter. Wait! Isn't that what commies are accused of?
Promiscuity...read the news. Tiger Woods is a commie for sure.

27. Infiltrate the churches and replace revealed religion with "social" religion. Discredit the Bible and emphasize the need for intellectual maturity, which does not need a "religious crutch."

Uh, no. Didn't "come true."

This is tediously boring. No matter what, I fail to see how any of the points on this list have contributed to "The Communist Takeover of America."

Vincent
04-14-2010, 10:48 PM
Vincent - Let me ask you this - are you trying to portray that this list is an actual document of communist intentions written by crazy commies somewhere? Is it written by a scholar or expert on the subject?

You obviously didn't read the OP. The list was presented by Patricia Nordman, at that time an authority on communism, to the House of Representatives of the United States on 1/10/1963. The list came from “The Naked Communist” by Cleon Skousen, as also noted by Indo.

I'm not "trying to portray" anything. I posted from the public record.

Or is it written by a crazy old man who had red fever in the 1950's? :blah:

You're slobbering all over yourself again.

You've said more than once that you're way left of "liberal". These 45 stated communist objectives should play like a May Day news reel to you. But they don't. Your reaction reveals that they are clumsy to you, so much so that they could only be the machinations of "a crazy old man who had red fever in the 1950's".

They aren't. They created the environment that produced you and the way you "think". Predictably, you can't deal with it as evidenced by the previous post, so you fall back on what you know - attack the messenger. marxists can't argue with truth. Their only recourse is to attack the messenger. But then, that's what marx taught them.

BIGBENFASTWILLIE
04-14-2010, 10:50 PM
We have been adding extra sugar to our cool aid?
Jeff Rense....lol

Vincent
04-14-2010, 11:22 PM
We have been adding extra sugar to our cool aid?
Jeff Rense....lol

Oh boy. The "teacher" weighs in. I see you've discovered your shift key.

Who is Jeff Rense?

tony hipchest
04-14-2010, 11:50 PM
isnt the real issue here with this new wave of "red scare" anti-socialism, rhetoric and propoganda, that the GOP now has solid proof that they are incapable of filling a ticket that could beat RuPaul and an elvis impersonator in an election.

i mean damn, they painted john mccain out as a liberal, and it came back to bite them on the ass when he was their "great white hope", 8 years later.

they lost to an "unexperienced" negro with joe biden as the 2nd in command.

the thing that scares them is they know the democratic party could run on a straight agenda of a total communism conversion if they wanted to, and still win.

they should really focus on cleaning up their own house because their last attempted campaign was a trainwreck of strategy.

even the most die hard GOPher has to admit that 'joe the plummer' and sarah palin was to them, what steeley mcbeam and a cheerleading squad is to the steelers. :noidea: (looks good and appeals to children but otherwise useless).

Vincent
04-15-2010, 12:02 AM
isnt the real issue here with this new wave of "red scare" anti-socialism, rhetoric and propoganda, that the GOP now has solid proof that they are incapable of filling a ticket that could beat RuPaul and an elvis impersonator in an election.

i mean damn, they painted john mccain out as a liberal, and it came back to bite them on the ass when he was their "great white hope", 8 years later.

they lost to an "unexperienced" negro with joe biden as the 2nd in command.

the thing that scares them is they know the democratic party could run on a straight agenda of a total communism conversion if they wanted to, and still win.

they should really focus on cleaning up their own house because their last attempted campaign was a trainwreck of strategy.

even the most die hard GOPher has to admit that 'joe the plummer' and sarah palin was to them, what steeley mcbeam and a cheerleading squad is to the steelers. :noidea: (looks good and appeals to children but otherwise useless).

The elephants run from any anti-socialism commentary. I don't think Crazy John was viewed as a "great white hope" by anybody. Just a weak candidate. The rest I agree with. brady's a twink.

MasterOfPuppets
04-15-2010, 12:04 AM
quick question here, only semi related to the topic ... why is that not until now, is the republicans offering up healthcare ideas? i mean they've had control and oppurtunities to try some kind of overhaul over the years, but they did nothing... i mean i think the bill now is a little "risky", and i liked the idea of letting insurance companies compete across state lines, and i'd have been all for trying that out first, but where was that idea years ago when they had control ? why did they wait till somebody else finally tried to get rein in insurance companies ?

Vincent
04-15-2010, 12:20 AM
quick question here, only semi related to the topic ... why is that not until now, is the republicans offering up healthcare ideas? i mean they've had control and oppurtunities to try some kind of overhaul over the years, but they did nothing... i mean i think the bill now is a little "risky", and i liked the idea of letting insurance companies compete across state lines, and i'd have been all for trying that out first, but where was that idea years ago when they had control ? why did they wait till somebody else finally tried to get rein in insurance companies ?

You're right, it is related. As Dutch so aptly stated, socialized medicine is the means to control a population...

<object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/AYrlDlrLDSQ&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/AYrlDlrLDSQ&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>

Socialized medicine has been on the socialist, er, donkey agenda for the better part of a century. The reason the elephants "didn't do anything to 'fix health care'" is because it doesn't need fixing. As you point out, if there is anything health related in need of fixing, it is insurance, and that was "basis" of the donkey argument, that there are "47 million uninsured Americans".

But put a stalinist in the White House and that "crisis of the uninsured" quickly morphs into a full blown assault on the Constitution.

Preacher
04-15-2010, 02:58 AM
quick question here, only semi related to the topic ... why is that not until now, is the republicans offering up healthcare ideas? i mean they've had control and oppurtunities to try some kind of overhaul over the years, but they did nothing... i mean i think the bill now is a little "risky", and i liked the idea of letting insurance companies compete across state lines, and i'd have been all for trying that out first, but where was that idea years ago when they had control ? why did they wait till somebody else finally tried to get rein in insurance companies ?

Actually, they have been offering up those ideas before. Michael B. Enzi introduced just such a bill allowing small businesses to buy across state lines in the summer of 2007. The last of a number of such bills. It failed.

Going across state lines was also in John McCain's platform, and was condemned by the democrats. http://www.democrats.org/a/2008/04/dean_john_mccai_2.php
In fact, some of McCain's proposals would actually make it more difficult for families to get the care they need. For example, one family who attended yesterday's health care event in Miami discussed the challenges getting their health insurance company to pay for their son's treatment of a cleft lip and palate. As the Wall Street Journal reported, "McCain's health plan is designed to weaken state regulations like the one in Florida that, like 14 other states, mandates that insurance companies cover treatment for cleft palates. McCain says that mandates like this one drive up the cost of insurance, and he would allow people to buy coverage across state lines." [Wall Street Journal, Washington Wire blog, 4/28/08]

Kaiser insurance even talks about it being proposed in the past. ongressional Republicans have proposed the concept in the past and Sen. John McCain, R-Ariz., embraced it as part of his 2008 presidential campaig (http://forums.steelersfever.com/ongressional%20Republicans%20have%20proposed%20the %20concept%20in%20the%20past%20and%20Sen.%20John%2 0McCain,%20R-Ariz.,%20embraced%20it%20as%20part%20of%20his%2020 08%20presidential%20campaig)


The problem is, the dems kept blocking it.

43Hitman
04-15-2010, 07:32 AM
i thought we were talking about art, you know,like paintings done with a brush, sculptures ? not computer made graphics...:noidea:

You're right. I stand corrected, I got sidetracked. An argument could be made though, that computer graphics are indeed art. It's not the tools an artist uses that makes him an artist.

SteelCityMom
04-15-2010, 09:10 AM
You're right. I stand corrected, I got sidetracked. An argument could be made though, that computer graphics are indeed art. It's not the tools an artist uses that makes him an artist.

Computer graphics certainly can be used as an art form. Even video games are considered as part of the computer arts.

Propaganda photos (like these) are not. I don't know of anyone that would be able to take a simple photoshopped image of Obama, or anyone else, and put it on their resume to get a job...or be able to make a print of it and sell it in a gallery.

And I'm guessing nobody else caught it, but the second painting I posted by Picasso is a self-proclaimed work of propaganda. It was done after the Spanish Revolution and is his portrayal of the German bombing of Guernica during the Spanish Civil War. And Picasso was a huge commie (who despised the Nazi's). Promoting his artwork though does not mean you are promoting communism. Even though some artists present their political views through a brush stroke, that doesn't mean it's going to mean the same thing for the viewer of the piece.

43Hitman
04-15-2010, 10:56 AM
Computer graphics certainly can be used as an art form. Even video games are considered as part of the computer arts.

Propaganda photos (like these) are not. I don't know of anyone that would be able to take a simple photoshopped image of Obama, or anyone else, and put it on their resume to get a job...or be able to make a print of it and sell it in a gallery.

And I'm guessing nobody else caught it, but the second painting I posted by Picasso is a self-proclaimed work of propaganda. It was done after the Spanish Revolution and is his portrayal of the German bombing of Guernica during the Spanish Civil War. And Picasso was a huge commie (who despised the Nazi's). Promoting his artwork though does not mean you are promoting communism. Even though some artists present their political views through a brush stroke, that doesn't mean it's going to mean the same thing for the viewer of the piece.

Yeah, I did miss that. Thanks for the insight and the little history lesson behind that piece of artwork. :thumbsup:

BIGBENFASTWILLIE
04-15-2010, 01:17 PM
Oh boy. The "teacher" weighs in. I see you've discovered your shift key.

Who is Jeff Rense?

Jeff Rense is an American conspiracy theorist and radio talk-show host of the Jeff Rense Program, broadcast on US satellite radio via Republic Broadcasting Network (RBN) and Internet radio.......... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeff_Rense

Basically he talks about the Communist Takeover of America and the 45 Declared Goals....
Oh, he doesnt care much for Obama or the Democrats...
Crazy about UFO's (which I think would be neat if existed).

Oh and he is convinced that the Holocaust never happened...

You know........basically another crazy!

Leftoverhard
04-15-2010, 07:11 PM
And I'm guessing nobody else caught it, but the second painting I posted by Picasso is a self-proclaimed work of propaganda.

I did - just saw it this afternoon.

Vincent
04-15-2010, 08:04 PM
Jeff Rense is an American conspiracy theorist...

...You know........basically another crazy!

Thanks. I'll look him up in our directory.

Leftoverhard
04-15-2010, 08:16 PM
Thanks. I'll look him up in our directory.

Lol - good one

GBMelBlount
04-15-2010, 11:42 PM
the thing that scares them is they know the democratic party could run on a straight agenda of a total communism conversion if they wanted to, and still win.



Interesting perspective Tony...

I have one simple question.

If that was their platform, would you consider voting for them?

It sounds like you are making a comment about how liberals and democrats would vote more than anything else....:noidea:

Vincent
04-15-2010, 11:49 PM
Lol - good one

Thank you! I'm here through the weekend.

tony hipchest
04-16-2010, 12:16 AM
Interesting perspective Tony...

I have one simple question.

If that was their platform, would you consider voting for them?

It sounds like you are making a comment about how liberals and democrats would vote more than anything else....:noidea:aso...

gbmel emerges from the shadows.

if it were that simple of a question, why the typical, habitual, and expected edit 12 minutes later?

could it be that you struggled a bit with addressing the point and even more so thinking of a way to try and divert and deflect? :busted:

YOU are the one who thinks america with its current regime is communist and anti capitalism. therefore YOU need own and defend that stance.

i know otherwise. :cool:

GBMelBlount
04-16-2010, 07:08 AM
aso...

rgbmel emerges from the shadows.

if it were that simple of a question, why the typical, habitual, and expected edit 12 minutes later?

could it be that you struggled a bit with addressing the point and even more so thinking of a way to try and divert and deflect? :busted:

YOU are the one who thinks america with its current regime is communist and anti capitalism. therefore YOU need own and defend that stance.

i know otherwise. :cool:

Apologies,

I forgot how uncomfortable you get when I ask you a simple question for clarification on comments you make....

BIGBENFASTWILLIE
04-16-2010, 01:34 PM
Thank you! I'm here through the weekend.

You can take the weekend! :wave:
:rofl: