PDA

View Full Version : Witness documents revealed


Pages : [1] 2

Fire Haley
04-15-2010, 08:50 PM
APRIL 15--The college student who accused Ben Roethlisberger of sexually assaulting her last month in a Georgia nightclub told cops that the NFL star approached her "with his penis out of his pants" and followed her into a bathroom, where "he had sex with me" in spite of her objections.

Nice

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/years/2010/0415101roethlisberger1.html

NEPAsteeler
04-15-2010, 08:52 PM
Oh boy. :doh:

bigbenrules4000
04-15-2010, 08:55 PM
That was never proved to be true its just a claim.

whatdoiknow
04-15-2010, 08:55 PM
That seems really outragous. Isn't there a way that the Steelers can force Ben to take a Independent Lie detector test ? The ones they have now are Infaluable basically. And, if Ben is Innocent of this as he says he is, then why wouldn't he do it ? That would be a big plus for him if he did, and passed it.

JSH6487
04-15-2010, 08:56 PM
The first paragraph just shows how many holes are in some of these stories. What happened to the girl being dragged into the bathroom by Ben's bodyguards that was reported earlier.

This one says...
the NFL star approached her "with his penis out of his pants" and followed her into a bathroom, where "he had sex with me" in spite of her objections.

So it went from her being dragged into the bathroom by bodyguards, to Ben just following her in.

zulater
04-15-2010, 08:56 PM
APRIL 15--The college student who accused Ben Roethlisberger of sexually assaulting her last month in a Georgia nightclub told cops that the NFL star approached her "with his penis out of his pants" and followed her into a bathroom, where "he had sex with me" in spite of her objections.

Nice

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/years/2010/0415101roethlisberger1.html




Good trick doing all that and not leaving any DNA behind. Hell imagine what he could pull off if he started using condoms.

By the way, I'm rolling my eyes as I type this.

Fire Haley
04-15-2010, 08:57 PM
Go to the link and scroll down and READ the police documents - don't just spout off.

bigbenrules4000
04-15-2010, 08:57 PM
They don't give lie detector test to NFL players. Besides they are not acurate all the time.

bigbenrules4000
04-15-2010, 08:58 PM
I read the police report eariler today.

Fire Haley
04-15-2010, 09:00 PM
It's still he said - she said - - - but I bet the Rooney's read it too.

http://i.cdn.turner.com/trutv/thesmokinggun.com/graphics/art4/0415101roethlisberger7b.gif

preston0036
04-15-2010, 09:53 PM
if all that were true Ben would have been would have been tried in a court of law!!!!! she said he had sex with her if thats true then why did the rape kit sugest there was no penitration????the post-gazette those ass wipes at Espn 1250 Stan and Guy ,Chris Mack are all trying there best to get the man out of town

seven86
04-15-2010, 09:56 PM
The lead into KDKA News at 1100 is saying, We've uncovered witness statements from the sexual assault case and they are damning.

Now come on, damning? They all have different freaking stories. I hate the media.

Curtain_of_Steel
04-15-2010, 09:56 PM
So this is a 3rd party restating what happened, although she wasn't in there with her?

Sounds like she wanted in on the party and didnt get the invite. All this is heresay. Which is past of the reason why the DA kicked it. A bunch of drunk 20 years olds with fake id's running rampent in GA.

JSH6487
04-15-2010, 09:58 PM
So this is a 3rd party restating what happened, although she wasn't in there with her?

Sounds like she wanted in on the party and didnt get the invite. All this is heresay. Which is past of the reason why the DA kicked it. A bunch of drunk 20 years olds with fake id's running rampent in GA.

Exactly, but 75% of the people on this board act like Ben has been charged and convicted and that we should trade away our franchise QB for a washing machine.

zulater
04-15-2010, 10:03 PM
if all that were true Ben would have been would have been tried in a court of law!!!!! she said he had sex with her if thats true then why did the rape kit sugest there was no penitration????the post-gazette those ass wipes at Espn 1250 Stan and Guy ,Chris Mack are all trying there best to get the man out of town

Ben's legal team needs to get out in front of this story and point that sort of thing out before this goes any further. I know they were paid to keep him out of jail, but if he loses his career due to being tried and convicted in the court of public opinion then they've failed their client the same as if he had been brought up on charges.

Strike that, I think in the long run Ben might have been better off charged. At least then his accusers would have had to face cross examination. :banging:

Curtain_of_Steel
04-15-2010, 10:05 PM
I'm torn on getting out in front of this. What I think should occur is bens entourage who are being casted in ill light, should file something against these people. I think BB wants it to just go away. But this is the ramifications of thinking with the little head, lol.

Go to millionaire matchmaker, lol

stillers4me
04-15-2010, 10:09 PM
You all do realize that the witnesses were all drunk, too, don't you?

HometownGal
04-15-2010, 10:15 PM
I smell :bs: and obviously so did the GBI.

I am sticking with my perception of the poor, innocent bar rat - she tramp talked, Ben stupidly and carelessly took the bait and they had consensual sex of some nature (though lack of DNA evidence strongly suggests she had a protein shake and no dickie dunkin' was involved), at which point she and her bimbette cohorts decided to conjur up this wild assed sexual assault allegation in the hopes of a big payday, which obviously never happened.

Opportunistic vampire bats imho.

T&B fan
04-15-2010, 10:17 PM
You all do realize that the witnesses were all drunk, too, don't you?

under age and vary drunk

Steelerfreak58
04-15-2010, 10:20 PM
He didn't pay attention to her much after wards her self preservation ANTI **** DEFENSE went up when she started to feel buyers remorse. She conjures a story to save face.

Ben Ben Ben why can't you just pull that large cranium out of your rectum! Sheesh....

JSH6487
04-15-2010, 10:23 PM
I smell :bs: and obviously so did the GBI.

I am sticking with my perception of the poor, innocent bar rat - she tramp talked, Ben stupidly and carelessly took the bait and they had consensual sex of some nature (though lack of DNA evidence strongly suggests she had a protein shake and no dickie dunkin' was involved), at which point she and her bimbette cohorts decided to conjur up this wild assed sexual assault allegation in the hopes of a big payday, which obviously never happened.

Opportunistic vampire bats imho.

Exactly! Thank you! Only true thing that you can say about Ben is he is dumb and perverted enough to take a chick into a public bathroom. Honestly, I don't think that's enough to even warrant any kind of suspension from the league now that the case has been dropped, although I really wouldn't be opposed to a 1 or 2 game suspension for him just to learn a lesson.

And the people that are calling for Ben's head and want him ran out of town without knowing the facts, after everything Ben has done for this team and city is really disheartening.

BlastFurnace
04-15-2010, 10:24 PM
This is what I don't understand from the DA's point of view:

Ben strolls back their with his unit hanging out and the girl says they had sex. Says she wasn't sure if she was raped. But....according to a report, there wasn't enough DNA to tell one way or another to incriminate Ben.

Eyewitnesses seem to indicate that the girl was drunk and being taken advantage of while she was drunk. No question about it that it was Ben who did the act.

If two of these Bodyguards were undercover Police Officers, why isn't the heat being levied against them as well. After all...they are there to "Protect and to Serve".

How on earth and why on earth did the DA not go forward with this case and go after Ben? To me, with everything the witnesses allegedly said, there is plenty to go after Ben and win this case. I read the account on The Smoking Gun and Deadspin and there seems to be plenty there to win this case.

There was less proof than this when Tyson got 3 years after sexually assaulting that model.

I don't get it. Why didn't the DA go forward with this?

zulater
04-15-2010, 10:45 PM
This is what I don't understand from the DA's point of view:

Ben strolls back their with his unit hanging out and the girl says they had sex. Says she wasn't sure if she was raped. But....according to a report, there wasn't enough DNA to tell one way or another to incriminate Ben.

Eyewitnesses seem to indicate that the girl was drunk and being taken advantage of while she was drunk. No question about it that it was Ben who did the act.

If two of these Bodyguards were undercover Police Officers, why isn't the heat being levied against them as well. After all...they are there to "Protect and to Serve".

How on earth and why on earth did the DA not go forward with this case and go after Ben? To me, with everything the witnesses allegedly said, there is plenty to go after Ben and win this case. I read the account on The Smoking Gun and Deadspin and there seems to be plenty there to win this case.

There was less proof than this when Tyson got 3 years after sexually assaulting that model.

I don't get it. Why didn't the DA go forward with this?

Because you're only getting one side of the story. Obviously if they thought that story would hold up under cross and wasn't greatly contradicted by other aspects of the case they would have gone foward with charges. :doh:

SteelCityMom
04-15-2010, 10:49 PM
I've read it all, and so has the Georgia DA....apparently neither of us sees enough evidence to prosecute.

Nuff said.

Prok
04-15-2010, 10:50 PM
The first paragraph just shows how many holes are in some of these stories. What happened to the girl being dragged into the bathroom by Ben's bodyguards that was reported earlier.

This one says...
the NFL star approached her "with his penis out of his pants" and followed her into a bathroom, where "he had sex with me" in spite of her objections.

So it went from her being dragged into the bathroom by bodyguards, to Ben just following her in.

As usual we're hearing only one side of the story it seems.

BlastFurnace
04-15-2010, 10:50 PM
Because you're only getting one side of the story. Obviously if they thought that story would hold up under cross and wasn't greatly contradicted by other aspects of the case they would have gone foward with charges. :doh:

I'm not taking the girls side, but with the way the media is portraying this event, it is making the DA look like an idiot for not pursuing this.

Prok
04-15-2010, 10:52 PM
Because you're only getting one side of the story. Obviously if they thought that story would hold up under cross and wasn't greatly contradicted by other aspects of the case they would have gone foward with charges. :doh:

Shoulda read this post before i replied in this thread.

Rep'd. Good post Zulater.

BIGBENFASTWILLIE
04-15-2010, 10:53 PM
good story........didnt work......Ben did rape anyone,,,,,,,,no suspension

Prok
04-15-2010, 10:54 PM
I'm not taking the girls side, but with the way the media is portraying this event, it is making the DA look like an idiot for not pursuing this.

The media is doing great at sensationalizing IMO.

Even Mortensen and Shefter have chosen to highlight certain quotes of stories rather than post entire story in it's context.

Shea
04-15-2010, 10:58 PM
I'm not taking the girls side, but with the way the media is portraying this event, it is making the DA look like an idiot for not pursuing this.

I think the girl not wanting to proceed in the process is what sunk the DA's ship.

SteelCityMom
04-15-2010, 10:59 PM
I'm not taking the girls side, but with the way the media is portraying this event, it is making the DA look like an idiot for not pursuing this.

Yeah, how dare he pursue this with no video, direct witness or DNA evidence.

What is he thinking.

Prok
04-15-2010, 11:05 PM
I think the girl not wanting to proceed in the process is what sunk the DA's ship.

The DA came straight out and said that had no bearing. If he had proper evidence and non-conflicting evidence he would have pursued reguardless.

JSH6487
04-15-2010, 11:13 PM
I think the girl not wanting to proceed in the process is what sunk the DA's ship.

Oh, but there damn sure will be a civil suit where she tries to extort money. I mean come on, if I had a family member that was without a doubt raped I wouldn't be dropping the charges regardless of how bleak the DA's case was. It would be played out until the jury said guilty or not guilty. I think the girl realized that she was drunk off her ass and really had no idea what actually happened.

zulater
04-15-2010, 11:14 PM
I think the girl not wanting to proceed in the process is what sunk the DA's ship.

I think it was more to do with a lack of physical evidence. It's hard for me to believe that if the girl's story were true that a rape kit methodically proccessed within hours of said alleged assualt wouldn't have produced conclusive damning evidence against Ben.

:coffee:

Prok
04-15-2010, 11:17 PM
I think it was more to do with a lack of physical evidence. It's hard for me to believe that if the girl's story were true that a rape kit methodically proccessed within hours of said alleged assualt wouldn't have produced conclusive damning evidence against Ben.

:coffee:

Thats what gets me. Many want to make it seem like Ben outright raped the girl yet she was examined almost immediately after and not enough dna to compare?

Watch, we're going to get BOTH sides of this whole story some day....

Shea
04-15-2010, 11:27 PM
The DA came straight out and said that had no bearing. If he had proper evidence and non-conflicting evidence he would have pursued reguardless.

I missed him saying that. Do you have a link? Sorry, all that is going on has become a bit jumbled.

I don't think I've ever seen a sexual assualt case proceed without the cooperation of the alleged victim.

These types of cases are hard enough to prove even with full cooperation from the girl. Without her - unless it's somehow caught on tape - not only will the shit not hit the fan for the defendant but the fan isn't even on.

SteelersinCA
04-15-2010, 11:27 PM
Ben is dirty, trashy and downright creepy. He says he wants to be treated like a regular guy but if any regular old 30 year old walked into a college bar the girls would go, "who is the old creepy guy?" The guy is a hell of a qb, but he is lower than whale sheet as a person.

zulater
04-15-2010, 11:37 PM
I missed him saying that. Do you have a link? Sorry, all that is going on has become a bit jumbled.

I don't think I've ever seen a sexual assualt case proceed without the cooperation of the alleged victim.

These types of cases are hard enough to prove even with full cooperation from the girl. Without her - unless it's somehow caught on tape - not only will the shit not hit the fan for the defendant but the fan isn't even on.

She said she didn't want to procede with the case, but she never said she wouldn't cooperate or testify if charges were filed.

And yes the DA did in fact say that her not wanting to go foward with charges had no bearing on his decision not to pursue the case further.

It's easy enough to find, just scroll through some stories from Tuesday or Monday on it.,

d2609j
04-15-2010, 11:43 PM
I smell :bs: and obviously so did the GBI.

I am sticking with my perception of the poor, innocent bar rat - she tramp talked, Ben stupidly and carelessly took the bait and they had consensual sex of some nature (though lack of DNA evidence strongly suggests she had a protein shake and no dickie dunkin' was involved), at which point she and her bimbette cohorts decided to conjur up this wild assed sexual assault allegation in the hopes of a big payday, which obviously never happened.

Opportunistic vampire bats imho.

Nice perception. We have a serial rapist for a QB, every executive and probably 90% of his teammates in our organization thinks this guy is guilty and you think it is conjured up? I can't wait for it to come out how much money he paid her for her to pull out and keep quiet. This POS is getting everything he deserves, except jail time.

Shea
04-15-2010, 11:44 PM
She said she didn't want to procede with the case, but she never said she wouldn't cooperate or testify if charges were filed.

And yes the DA did in fact say that her not wanting to go foward with charges had no bearing on his decision not to pursue the case further.

It's easy enough to find, just scroll through some stories from Tuesday or Monday on it.,

Sorry, that doesn't make any sense to me.

She's either in or she isn't.

As far as scrolling through stories from Monday or Tuesday - what comes to mind is it's Thursday.

Give me a link.

Without her they couldn't proceed, period.

SteelCityMom
04-16-2010, 12:05 AM
Nice perception. We have a serial rapist for a QB, every executive and probably 90% of his teammates in our organization thinks this guy is guilty and you think it is conjured up? I can't wait for it to come out how much money he paid her for her to pull out and keep quiet. This POS is getting everything he deserves, except jail time.

Holy crap...you must have some super secret evidence that the DA is not aware of. You should call him...quick, and make him aware of it.

d2609j
04-16-2010, 12:11 AM
Holy crap...you must have some super secret evidence that the DA is not aware of. You should call him...quick, and make him aware of it.

So he threw a condom on, whippty doo. Would you let him date your 20 yr old daughter?

zulater
04-16-2010, 12:14 AM
Sorry, that doesn't make any sense to me.

She's either in or she isn't.

As far as scrolling through stories from Monday or Tuesday - what comes to mind is it's Thursday.

Give me a link.

Without her they couldn't proceed, period.

Go find it yourself.

zulater
04-16-2010, 12:14 AM
So he threw a condom on, whippty doo. Would you let him date your 20 yr old daughter?

Funny how she forget to mention it though.


:coffee:

fansince'76
04-16-2010, 12:19 AM
Nice perception. We have a serial rapist for a QB, every executive and probably 90% of his teammates in our organization thinks this guy is guilty and you think it is conjured up? I can't wait for it to come out how much money he paid her for her to pull out and keep quiet. This POS is getting everything he deserves, except jail time.

Prove it. :coffee:

Shea
04-16-2010, 12:23 AM
Go find it yourself.

You brought it up, so you find it!

And going with how this conversation is heading - and well, neener neener! :moon:

Seriously - link?? C'mon you can do it!

MACH1
04-16-2010, 12:27 AM
Go to the link and scroll down and READ the police documents - don't just spout off.

It's a good thing the DA didn't have a personal vendetta like some people around here.

zulater
04-16-2010, 12:28 AM
You brought it up, so you find it!

And going with how this conversation is heading - and well, neener neener! :moon:

Seriously - link?? C'mon you can do it!


Yeah I know I can, but I already saw the statement, so I don't need confirmation. And I really don't care if you believe it or not.

d2609j
04-16-2010, 12:29 AM
Prove it. :coffee:

What more do you want

Sansi
04-16-2010, 12:29 AM
Funny how she forget to mention it though.


:coffee:

I frequent another sports forum that just focuses on football in general. One of the threads is about bad stories regarding players. Two different stories from different folks concerned Ben trying to seduce young girls by first exposing his penis.

One was him telling a girl that if she came home with him he'd buy her whatever she wanted. Another still discussed him stripping down naked and walking into a room wearing only a green condom. They all smelled of BS for a while. This was all well before the Georgia case.

Whatever anyone wants to believe, the part about getting the girls to drink alcohol, and the bodyguard looming over an area of the bar only Ben could access while SOMETHING happened in the back are pretty clear by now. I can only count that as despicable behavior coming from someone who has no basic respect for women. Were he a co-worker of mine we'd call him scum.

fansince'76
04-16-2010, 12:31 AM
What more do you want

Uh, how about an actual criminal charge as opposed to a bunch of media sensationalism after the fact, for one thing? :coffee:

tony hipchest
04-16-2010, 12:33 AM
I can't wait for it to come out how much money he paid her for her to pull out and keep quiet. .

she pulled out and shut her mouth?

is that why no DNA evidence was discovered?

zulater
04-16-2010, 12:37 AM
I frequent another sports forum that just focuses on football in general. One of the threads is about bad stories regarding players. Two different stories from different folks concerned Ben trying to seduce young girls by first exposing his penis.

One was him telling a girl that if she came home with him he'd buy her whatever she wanted. Another still discussed him stripping down naked and walking into a room wearing only a green condom. They all smelled of BS for a while. This was all well before the Georgia case.

Whatever anyone wants to believe, the part about getting the girls to drink alcohol, and the bodyguard looming over an area of the bar only Ben could access while SOMETHING happened in the back are pretty clear by now. I can only count that as despicable behavior coming from someone who has no basic respect for women. Were he a co-worker of mine we'd call him scum.

There's a lot of shit on the internet, I have no idea what is or isn't true, nor do you.

As of now the guy's never been charged with a crime. Maybe he's skirted the edge, maybe not? :noidea: If he has obviously he's got a major wake up call and you'd have to think he'll start living life different now. Or so one would hope.

Look I don't like this shit hanging over the team any more than you, but it's not a crime to be an asshole, which is as much as has ever been proven about Ben. So until he's either traded or proven guilty of a crime I guess i can stomach him being on the team.

d2609j
04-16-2010, 12:38 AM
she pulled out and shut her mouth?

is that why no DNA evidence was discovered?

prophylactic

MACH1
04-16-2010, 12:40 AM
prophylactic

So your saying he suited up first. :doh:

zulater
04-16-2010, 12:40 AM
prophylactic

Yet there was no claim of one on her witness statement. Next.

:coffee:

SteelCityMom
04-16-2010, 12:40 AM
So he threw a condom on, whippty doo. Would you let him date your 20 yr old daughter?

What does a condom have to do with anything? You said serial rapist....where's your proof. Back up your statements fool.

Also, I don't have a 20 year old daughter.

zulater
04-16-2010, 12:41 AM
So your saying he suited up first. :doh:

But apparently the "victim" forgot to mention it. :doh:

Sansi
04-16-2010, 12:44 AM
There's a lot of shit on the internet, I have no idea what is or isn't true, nor do you.

As of now the guy's never been charged with a crime. Maybe he's skirted the edge, maybe not? :noidea: If he has obviously he's got a major wake up call now, and you'd have to think he'll start living life different now. Or so one would hope.

Look I don't like this shit hanging over the team any more than you, but it's not a crime to be an asshole, which is as much as has ever been proven about Ben. So until he's either traded of proven guilty of a crime I guess i can stomach him being on the team.

Lots of fans have kids, who they expect to be lifelong fans themselves. The Rooneys, I am sure, consider this type of thing when personnel decisions. While he may be a tolerable presence to a fan, I am unsure how safe an investment he is. Also consider they have to be the ones who write him a check. I could nto stomach writing million dollar check to someone who did what is pretty conclusive (meaning bodyguard, dark hallway, providing alcohol etc..)

In twenty years when I have a daughter asking me about this Steelers era and why the QB was always in trouble do I really wanna say "Oh well see we sill cheered the guy because he was never CONVICTED. And all he really did was sauce her up and lead her to a back room while an off-duty cop stood sentry. He may have penetrated her in a dirty bathroom but that is he said she said! See? It's all cool, honey."

SteelCityMom
04-16-2010, 12:52 AM
Lots of fans have kids, who they expect to be lifelong fans themselves. The Rooneys, I am sure, consider this type of thing when personnel decisions. While he may be a tolerable presence to a fan, I am unsure how safe an investment he is. Also consider they have to be the ones who write him a check. I could nto stomach writing million dollar check to someone who did what is pretty conclusive (meaning bodyguard, dark hallway, providing alcohol etc..)

In twenty years when I have a daughter asking me about this Steelers era and why the QB was always in trouble do I really wanna say "Oh well see we sill cheered the guy because he was never CONVICTED. And all he really did was sauce her up and lead her to a back room while an off-duty cop stood sentry. He may have penetrated her in a dirty bathroom but that is he said she said! See? It's all cool, honey."

Hey, how bout instead teaching your 20 year old daughter not to go into a bar and get all sauced up no matter the status of the males in there. That'd be a good way to keep her out of trouble.

As for explaining the allegations to your daughter (or soon to be daughter) honestly. He never was convicted of anything...but that the fact that he wasn't charged doesn't mean you should blindly trust anyone (especially in a bar at 2am after you've been drinking). Otherwise you're going to have to teach her that anyone accused of anything is automatically guilty regardless of what the legal system says.

fansince'76
04-16-2010, 12:53 AM
What does a condom have to do with anything? You said serial rapist....where's your proof. Back up your statements fool.

Also, I don't have a 20 year old daughter.

He won't. He's spent the last few years popping in here to (mainly) pontificate about what a dickhead Ben is and disappearing again.

SteelCityMom
04-16-2010, 12:54 AM
He won't. He's spent the last few years popping in here to (mainly) pontificate about what a dickhead Ben is and disappearing again.

He must not have tits. :chuckle:

Sansi
04-16-2010, 12:54 AM
Hey, how bout instead teaching your 20 year old daughter not to go into a bar and get all sauced up no matter the status of the males in there. That'd be a good way to keep her out of trouble.

As for explaining the allegations to your daughter (or soon to be daughter) honestly. He never was convicted of anything...but that the fact that he wasn't charged doesn't mean you should blindly trust anyone (especially in a bar at 2am after you've been drinking). Otherwise you're going to have to teach her that anyone accused of anything is automatically guilty regardless of what the legal system says.

Right. The context wasn't how to handle yourself in a college bar when a thirty year old man shows up with his bodyguard entourage. It was how to explain my loyalty to a guy who behaved this way.

tony hipchest
04-16-2010, 12:56 AM
prophylactic

prophetic.

are you suggesting she whipped out a dental dam from her purse and then rinsed it of in the toilet after the fact?

steelreserve
04-16-2010, 12:59 AM
Well, regardless of whether they decided it was worth charging him or not ... I'm sorry to say the general sequence of events they're describing does not sound preposterous in the least. And for the most part, the stories do match up.

Again, this is all in a general sense -- there's nothing there I can point at and say, "This proves he definitely committed a crime," or, "This proves everything was on the level." What I do get a clear picture of is a somewhat shady situation where Ben comes out looking like a douche either way.

Nobody's probably ever going to prove more than that -- but honestly, all this talk about how the whole thing was made up out of the blue and nothing about it adds up at all ... well, that's about as ridiculous as anything I've heard so far, too.

whatdoiknow
04-16-2010, 01:00 AM
Right. The context wasn't how to handle yourself in a college bar when a thirty year old man shows up with his bodyguard entourage. It was how to explain my loyalty to a guy who behaved this way.





Behaved what way ? Going into a legal Bar where he can be. And a 20 year old girl who was NOT ID, and who should not have been there. Also Ben never approached her. She, as well as many others approached him when they heard he was there.
Ben is 28, and she was thought to be at LEAST 21. Since when is hooking up with a girl 7 years younger considered a bad act ? She is the ***** here. Ben did nothing wrong. Which is why he was never arrested, or charged. Get the picture now ?

tony hipchest
04-16-2010, 01:01 AM
The context wasn't how to handle yourself in a college bar when a thirty year old man shows up with his bodyguard entourage. i think she was more concerned with handling his disco stick, although i bet she fondled herself a bit in the process, too.

SteelCityMom
04-16-2010, 01:01 AM
Right. The context wasn't how to handle yourself in a college bar when a thirty year old man shows up with his bodyguard entourage. It was how to explain my loyalty to a guy who behaved this way.

In case you haven't read the witness statements...Ben was there first in the VIP area. They were invited back there...and went back there, and drank the shots he bought them.

If you don't want your daughter "idolizing" sexist male sports figures, either become a better role model yourself or teach her the harsh reality that (for the most part) adult males with tons of money = assholes. (which being an asshole is not illegal).

If you just want her to focus on rooting for a team because of their athletic ability, then maybe make that clear to her too. Not my problem though (or the Rooney's for that matter) if you don't do your job as a parent.

d2609j
04-16-2010, 01:02 AM
Yet there was no claim of one on her witness statement. Next.

:coffee:

Im sure if Ben fed you enough patron, and then bent you over a toilet, you may not remember that also. Its amazing that nobody, Ben, his attorneys, agent, steelers, DA, anyone are denying that intercouse took place. That is a fact that no one is denying.

zulater
04-16-2010, 01:02 AM
Lots of fans have kids, who they expect to be lifelong fans themselves. The Rooneys, I am sure, consider this type of thing when personnel decisions. While he may be a tolerable presence to a fan, I am unsure how safe an investment he is. Also consider they have to be the ones who write him a check. I could nto stomach writing million dollar check to someone who did what is pretty conclusive (meaning bodyguard, dark hallway, providing alcohol etc..)

In twenty years when I have a daughter asking me about this Steelers era and why the QB was always in trouble do I really wanna say "Oh well see we sill cheered the guy because he was never CONVICTED. And all he really did was sauce her up and lead her to a back room while an off-duty cop stood sentry. He may have penetrated her in a dirty bathroom but that is he said she said! See? It's all cool, honey."

The allegations are horrific, but being as the one who's made these accusations doesn't have the courage to stand up before a jury and face cross examination I also don't have to accept them as Gospel truth. You see that's how it works in this country. To accuse isn't enough. You also have to follow through with your accusations and be willing to testify so that your attacker isn't free to victimize others.

Earliar on this thread i was asked if i would want my 20 year old daughter going out with Ben. No if i had a daughter i wouldn't.

But I'll tell you what i would want my daughter to do. If she was in fact attacked and raped, no matter what sort of damaging evidence might be revealed about her, I would encourage and coerce her in any way I could to follow it all the way through and see that the bastard goes to jail. I would tell her though it might seem painfull now, you'll regret if for the rest of your life if you don't do everything in your power to see him punished.


But of course if no crime occured I'd advice her to drop it, just as she did.

Sansi
04-16-2010, 01:04 AM
Well, regardless of whether they decided it was worth charging him or not ... I'm sorry to say the general sequence of events they're describing does not sound preposterous in the least. And for the most part, the stories do match up.

Again, this is all in a general sense -- there's nothing there I can point at and say, "This proves he definitely committed a crime," or, "This proves everything was on the level." What I do get a clear picture of is a somewhat shady situation where Ben comes out looking like a douche either way.

Nobody's probably ever going to prove more than that -- but honestly, all this talk about how the whole thing was made up out of the blue and nothing about it adds up at all ... well, that's about as ridiculous as anything I've heard so far, too.

Yes. I also always consider what someone actually DOES to prove they are telling the truth. She allowed them to perform tests to look for his DNA. To me that says that she may have thought there would be some there. Hey - it is always possible that she was lying about every detail and was just hoping and praying that some of Ben's DNA found its way where it shouldn't have, but that is much more preposterous in my estimation.

I HATE convicting these athletes of things it is not proven they did but this is not some tale of fantasy. I wouldn't wanna be in the same room as the guy. Now I have to consider if I'd be in the same stadium.

zulater
04-16-2010, 01:06 AM
Im sure if Ben fed you enough patron, and then bent you over a toilet, you may not remember that also. Its amazing that nobody, Ben, his attorneys, agent, steelers, DA, anyone are denying that intercouse took place. That is a fact that no one is denying.

Ben said in his original statement to police that sexual intercourse didn't occur between them. He has yet to contradict that, nor have his lawyers.

d2609j
04-16-2010, 01:07 AM
He won't. He's spent the last few years popping in here to (mainly) pontificate about what a dickhead Ben is and disappearing again.

Not dogging anyone, just giving my perception. Just like you, other staff members, and everyone else is

tony hipchest
04-16-2010, 01:07 AM
She allowed them to perform tests to look for his DNA. To me that says that she may have thought there would be some there. .to me that says she was just hoping the medical examiners would get her off, too.

MACH1
04-16-2010, 01:09 AM
Yes. I also always consider what someone actually DOES to prove they are telling the truth. She allowed them to perform tests to look for his DNA. To me that says that she may have thought there would be some there. Hey - it is always possible that she was lying about every detail and was just hoping and praying that some of Ben's DNA found its way where it shouldn't have, but that is much more preposterous in my estimation.

I HATE convicting these athletes of things it is not proven they did but this is not some tale of fantasy. I wouldn't wanna be in the same room as the guy. Now I have to consider if I'd be in the same stadium.


What happened to innocent until proven guilty? He didn't have to prove a damn thing, she did!

If they had any DNA evidence at all, they would have gotten a court order to collect ben's DNA to compare.

If it bothers you that bad I here the clowns are looking for more fans.

SteelCityMom
04-16-2010, 01:09 AM
Im sure if Ben fed you enough patron, and then bent you over a toilet, you may not remember that also. Its amazing that nobody, Ben, his attorneys, agent, steelers, DA, anyone are denying that intercouse took place. That is a fact that no one is denying.

So you're saying you think two drunk people had sex in a bathroom? And then didn't remember every detail?

I'm sure that only happens with serial rapists.

Steeldude
04-16-2010, 01:12 AM
star approached her "with his penis out of his pants" and followed her into a bathroom

sounds like harmless flirting to me.

Sansi
04-16-2010, 01:13 AM
What happened to innocent until proven guilty? He didn't have to prove a damn thing, she did!

If they had any DNA evidence at all, they would have gotten a court order to collect ben's DNA to compare.

If it bothers you that bad I here the clowns are looking for more fans.

Right - I was talking about her willingness to have DNA tested. What she did, not what he did.

If your reaction to someone being angry over the face of his team acting this way is "go cheer for the clowns" then you're probably not willing to consider he may just be a total heel who did something despicable because he is a bad person.

d2609j
04-16-2010, 01:14 AM
So you're saying you think two drunk people had sex in a bathroom? And then didn't remember every detail?

I'm sure that only happens with serial rapists.

No, I think only one person was drunk. The other was a 30 year old, opportunistic POS.

MACH1
04-16-2010, 01:17 AM
Right - I was talking about her willingness to have DNA tested. What she did, not what he did.

If your reaction to someone being angry over the face of his team acting this way is "go cheer for the clowns" then you're probably not willing to consider he may just be a total heel who did something despicable because he is a bad person.

As was asked before "prove it"

you know what they say about assuming.

steelerschik
04-16-2010, 01:18 AM
So you're saying you think two drunk people had sex in a bathroom? And then didn't remember every detail?

I'm sure that only happens with serial rapists.

Oooo, another mom! Hi!! Agreeing with your post here but also referring to one about having a 20-year-old daughter. I have a 16-year-old daughter, who thinks Ben is ugly and all pro athletes have attitudes, are overpaid and are just all around jerks. Mind you, her boyfriend is on the HS football team, lol. My son is 13 and already has visions of him playing in the NFL in nothing other than a Steelers uni, and we wouldn't have it any other way. They know what's happened, they know the difference between accusations and being charged. I'm allowing them to make their own decisions and the greatest thing of all, they aren't scarred for life for something Big Ben did in his life. My son is one of his biggest fans, but that doesn't mean he wants to emulate him. And 20 years from now, why would this even be brought up anyway? Hell, I've watched the Steelers since I could walk and what I tell my kids is is how great it was watching the best team in football during those glory years and now they get the chance to see multiple SBs like I have. The charachter of any players from back then isn't even an issue.

zulater
04-16-2010, 01:19 AM
Right - I was talking about her willingness to have DNA tested. What she did, not what he did.If your reaction to someone being angry over the face of his team acting this way is "go cheer for the clowns" then you're probably not willing to consider he may just be a total heel who did something despicable because he is a bad person.

But you're ignoring the fact that her "willingnesss" is lacking when it comes to recounting her allegations before a judge and a jury.


:coffee:

Sansi
04-16-2010, 01:20 AM
But you're ignoring the fact that her "willingnesss" is lacking when it comes to recounting her allegations before a judge and a jury.


:coffee:

No. She had the DNA tested. I am sure she was not nearly as willing when the DNA I am sure she was just hoping magically appeared there through osmosis (because I mean she is LYING OF COURSE!) to show up in court and face a team of lawyers dissecting her every action that night.

zulater
04-16-2010, 01:21 AM
No, I think only one person was drunk. The other was a 30 year old, opportunistic POS.

He turned 28 that day. But not surprising you got it wrong, doesn't seem as if facts have much relevance to you.

zulater
04-16-2010, 01:22 AM
No. She had the DNA tested. I am sure she was not nearly as willing when the DNA I am sure she was just hoping magically appeared there through osmosis (because I mean she is LYING OF COURSE!) to show up in court and face a team of lawyers dissecting her every action that night.

Way to ignore what i said.

She claimed rape, the police made her go to the hospital and have the examination. Once she made the allegation the choice wasn't hers anymore.

Just so ya know.

Sansi
04-16-2010, 01:23 AM
Oooo, another mom! Hi!! Agreeing with your post here but also referring to one about having a 20-year-old daughter. I have a 16-year-old daughter, who thinks Ben is ugly and all pro athletes have attitudes, are overpaid and are just all around jerks. Mind you, her boyfriend is on the HS football team, lol. My son is 13 and already has visions of him playing in the NFL in nothing other than a Steelers uni, and we wouldn't have it any other way. They know what's happened, they know the difference between accusations and being charged. I'm allowing them to make their own decisions and the greatest thing of all, they aren't scarred for life for something Big Ben did in his life. My son is one of his biggest fans, but that doesn't mean he wants to emulate him. And 20 years from now, why would this even be brought up anyway? Hell, I've watched the Steelers since I could walk and what I tell my kids is is how great it was watching the best team in football during those glory years and now they get the chance to see multiple SBs like I have. The charachter of any players from back then isn't even an issue.

It will be brought up because he has won two superbowls. If he stays on the team and he behaves himself then he will probably be a Steeler legend forever, so of course it will be brought up. If he is gone then the question will always arise "why didn't they keep THAT guy?"

As far as your own children, commenting on that is probably out of bounds but suffice it to say his jersey would not be in my home.

tony hipchest
04-16-2010, 01:27 AM
As far as your own children, commenting on that is probably out of bounds but suffice it to say his jersey would not be in my home.if it was, would you have it tested for DNA?

steelerschik
04-16-2010, 01:28 AM
It will be brought up because he has won two superbowls. If he stays on the team and he behaves himself then he will probably be a Steeler legend forever, so of course it will be brought up. If he is gone then the question will always arise "why didn't they keep THAT guy?"

As far as your own children, commenting on that is probably out of bounds but suffice it to say his jersey would not be in my home.

Then why worry about what's going to happen 20 years from now? I'm worried about what's going to happen this season. I'm not willing to give up on him especially since he hasn't even been charged with anything. I'm a woman and I have doubts about some of the things this girl is saying or rather contradicting. And I'm truly sorry you have turned your back on a player that hasn't been convicted of any crime. My son does own a #7 jersey and he would wear it, but right now it's all about the Pens and his Sidney Crosby shirt. Don't you even imply about what kind of parent I am. I have raised my kids to be respectable of others and never to pass judgment on anyone who has accusations against them unless a crime can be proven to have been committed. So far, that hasn't happened.

Sansi
04-16-2010, 01:28 AM
Way to ignore what i said.

I didn't. You say she was unwilling to go to court, which is true and also totally irrelevant to whether or not she had a test conducted on her body to seek DNA that may or may not have proved she was being truthful. That it did not exist likely helped informed her decision. But it doesn't mean she didn't think it was there.

Sansi
04-16-2010, 01:33 AM
Then why worry about what's going to happen 20 years from now? I'm worried about what's going to happen this season. I'm not willing to give up on him especially since he hasn't even been charged with anything. I'm a woman and I have doubts about some of the things this girl is saying or rather contradicting. And I'm truly sorry you have turned your back on a player that hasn't been convicted of any crime. My son does own a #7 jersey and he would wear it, but right now it's all about the Pens and his Sidney Crosby shirt. Don't you even imply about what kind of parent I am. I have raised my kids to be respectable of others and never to pass judgment on anyone who has accusations against them unless a crime can be proven to have been committed. So far, that hasn't happened.

I don't care about a stupid crime. A crime is irrelevant when discussing questions of character. I love this team and will continue to cheer. But there are a lot more players worthy of my support than this guy. I am sure you totally disagree the Rooneys will likely make which is basically punishing him for the facts the DA layed out in his press conference, but I beliebe they saw and heard the same things I did and probably drew the same logical conclusions. He is going to be suspended for what amounts to being a bad person with bad judgement and a poor citizen who treats women like objects and hangs out in college bars 5 years too late with bodyguards guarding his possible sexual escapades. Sounds reasonable.

zulater
04-16-2010, 01:36 AM
I didn't. You say she was unwilling to go to court, which is true and also totally irrelevant to whether or not she had a test conducted on her body to seek DNA that may or may not have proved she was being truthful. That it did not exist likely helped informed her decision. But it doesn't mean she didn't think it was there.

Again, she submitted to the DNA test because she had no choice. As soon as she alleged a sexual assualt the police made her go to the hospital to have a rape kit performed. As I remember itt was reported at the time that the girl initially was reluctant to go the hospital.

MACH1
04-16-2010, 01:37 AM
No. She had the DNA tested. I am sure she was not nearly as willing when the DNA I am sure she was just hoping magically appeared there through osmosis (because I mean she is LYING OF COURSE!) to show up in court and face a team of lawyers dissecting her every action that night.

If there was any DNA to compare against, as I said before the Court would have ordered ben give a sample if there was.

What part of that do you not understand.

Sansi
04-16-2010, 01:38 AM
Again, she submitted to the DNA test because she had no choice. As soon as she alleged a sexual assualt the police made her go to the hospital to have a rape kit performed. As I remember itt was reported at the time that the girl initially was reluctant to go the hospital.

A sure sign of a liar.

steelerschik
04-16-2010, 01:39 AM
I don't care about a stupid crime. A crime is irrelevant when discussing questions of character. I love this team and will continue to cheer. But there are a lot more players worthy of my support than this guy. I am sure you totally disagree the Rooneys will likely make which is basically punishing him for the facts the DA layed out in his press conference, but I beliebe they saw and heard the same things I did and probably drew the same logical conclusions. He is going to be suspended for what amounts to being a bad person with bad judgement and a poor citizen who treats women like objects and hangs out in college bars 5 years too late with bodyguards guarding his possible sexual escapades. Sounds reasonable.

Then don't support him, that's your right, but you have no right to belittle anyone who chooses to support him, unless of course you are mistake free and perfect in every way. I root for a team of 52 players. Ben is 1 of 52. I fully expect him to be suspended and I'm not against it. I love Ben the player, I'm not thrilled with Ben the person right now and am hoping he can get back in everyone's good graces and become the better man I know he can be, but I'm willing to give him that chance. If he fails at it, this will all be moot because he'll be gone, but I can at least live with myself and say I gave him a chance.

Sansi
04-16-2010, 01:39 AM
If there was any DNA to compare against, as I said before the Court would have ordered ben give a sample if there was.

What part of that do you not understand.

You're actually not understanding what I am saying. Of course there was no DNA to compare - that is fact.

Sansi
04-16-2010, 01:46 AM
Then don't support him, that's your right, but you have no right to belittle anyone who chooses to support him, unless of course you are mistake free and perfect in every way. I root for a team of 52 players. Ben is 1 of 52. I fully expect him to be suspended and I'm not against it. I love Ben the player, I'm not thrilled with Ben the person right now and am hoping he can get back in everyone's good graces and become the better man I know he can be, but I'm willing to give him that chance. If he fails at it, this will all be moot because he'll be gone, but I can at least live with myself and say I gave him a chance.

Sure - I think it is perfectly valid to hold my nose when someone has his back. Ben the player and Ben the person are not two people. I can't compartmentalize his actions based on his location on this planet or what he may be doing at the time. And I am sure the first time he wins them a game by carrying them and praise gets heaped on him from all corners I will feel a little sick about it. Just so it is clear, he is not some subhuman beyond rehabilitation. But he clearly has a very low opinion of women that crosses the threshold of decency. I hope he is forced to undergo treatment and is given very firm instructions as to what constitutes "progress" in said treatment.

SteelCityMom
04-16-2010, 01:46 AM
:crying03:

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y178/MarkusTay/Posters/Hulk_Smash.jpg


Thread make Hulk INSANE!

zulater
04-16-2010, 01:49 AM
A sure sign of a liar.

Your point was blown out of the water. Her "willingness" to allow a rape kit to be performed was no more an indication of Ben's guilt or a absolute belief that his DNA might be present than her reluctance would be that she was lying.

Truth is neither of us know what the truth is, it's just that you pretend you do, while most of us extend the presumption of innocence to someone who has never been arrested for a crime let alone convicted

You see a person should have the opportunity to face their accuser in open court and that person's testimony has to withstand the scrutiny of cross examination before I'll pronounce someone guilty of a crime. .

There's no middle ground to be reached between us because of your absolute fanatical belief in Ben's guilt, so there's really no point in my discussing this with you any further.

Bye now. :wave:

steelerschik
04-16-2010, 01:53 AM
Sure - I think it is perfectly valid to hold my nose when someone has his back. Ben the player and Ben the person are not two people. I can't compartmentalize his actions based on his location on this planet or what he may be doing at the time. And I am sure the first time he wins them a game by carrying them and praise gets heaped on him from all corners I will feel a little sick about it. Just so it is clear, he is not some subhuman beyond rehabilitation. But he clearly has a very low opinion of women that crosses the threshold of decency. I hope he is forced to undergo treatment and is given very firm instructions as to what constitutes "progress" in said treatment.

What the....I swear I feel like I'm having a discussion with a self-righteous Pats fan. I don't even know what you're implying there, but whatever. I can certainly have Ben the player and Ben the person as 2 different people. I root for the man on the field. I feel the man off the field can mend his ways and he has no choice but to. Of course he can be rehabilitated and I'm sure that's going to be part of the plan. Whatever. You have your mind and judgment made up. This conversation can go no further because we don't agree and I'm too tired to go in circles about it.

fansince'76
04-16-2010, 01:53 AM
And I am sure the first time he wins them a game by carrying them and praise gets heaped on him from all corners I will feel a little sick about it.

Did you feel "sick" when Harrison scored on the 100-yard INT return for a TD in SB XLIII?

WH
04-16-2010, 01:57 AM
So now that now charges are being filed against him.....why drag this out? For anything more than ratings?

At least we know her name now.

Gnutella
04-16-2010, 02:15 AM
It's worth remembering that we only know one side of the story -- and we may never know the other.

pepsyman1
04-16-2010, 02:40 AM
I'll be straight up and say that I, like all the rest of us, really have no idea what really happened. We've heard one side of the story and many of us have doubts as to how accurate it is. Having said that, I'm very bothered that our franchise QB is that incredibly stupid to put himself in this position to start with. This isn't high school or college anymore where the jocks go hang around campus and see how many sorority chicks they can score with, but Ben appears to think that that is acceptable behavior. On the flip side, they were both drunk and lack of physical evidence suggests that whatever happened was probably to some degree consensual. I do have one question though....isn't our legal drinking age still 20? How is this 20 year old hanging out getting drunk enough that the DA mentions her intoxication and its bearing on the case? Anybody checking ID at this place? Anybody doing anything about it after the fact? Being drunk doesn't excuse you of responsibility, but it's amazing how many things get explained away because of it.

Acerinox
04-16-2010, 04:58 AM
Being British, I have a bit of a weird perspective on all this.
To me - 20 years old is not young. She's not 13! She's old enough to be a Sergeant in the Army or married with children of her own by now. At that age you are a fully accountable adult here on this side of the pond.

I've seen plenty of stuff thrown around about what you might want your 20-year-old daughter to do, and suggestions Ben is a pervert even to want to hang out with that age group. Like, WTF? In this country, you'd have to go for a LONG WALK to find a single, red-blooded twenty-something male that would NOT want to hang around in bars with 20-year old girls -- if they could put up with you!

As far as I'm concerned there is only ONE issue of ANY relevance in ALL of this.
Did Ben FORCE her to have sex or sexual activity with him?

While the witness statement was quite dramatic, I didn't find it particularly compelling to be honest. Girl can't find friend. Famous man's bodyguard tells her to sling her hook. Friend then comes out and says "we have to go now".
For me the telling part was when the accuser said she was looking for the exit (inexplicably, by herself, despite being with friends), but then went into the bathroom by accident (because that surely happens to every single one of us ALL THE TIME... right? right?). What's more, rather than coming straight back out again, she spent enough time searching the BATHROOM for the EXIT she was looking for, that she was cornered by a man with his wang hanging out.

WH
04-16-2010, 06:14 AM
This girl said she was ''kind of'' raped, right? If she was ''kind of'' raped wouldn't she have put up ''kind of'' a fight against Ben? Wouldn't she have had bruises where Ben ''kind of'' held her down?

Or is Ben the most gentle sexual assaulter there is?

zulater
04-16-2010, 06:24 AM
This girl said she was ''kind of'' raped, right? If she was ''kind of'' raped wouldn't she have put up ''kind of'' a fight against Ben? Wouldn't she have had bruises where Ben ''kind of'' held her down?

Or is Ben the most gentle sexual assaulter there is?

Gentle Ben. :chuckle:

WH
04-16-2010, 06:38 AM
The more I think about this the more angry I get. This all should have been over Monday. Somebody find pictures of Michael Vick buying some dogs out of the back of a van, PLEASE!

HometownGal
04-16-2010, 07:33 AM
This girl said she was ''kind of'' raped, right? If she was ''kind of'' raped wouldn't she have put up ''kind of'' a fight against Ben? Wouldn't she have had bruises where Ben ''kind of'' held her down?

Or is Ben the most gentle sexual assaulter there is?

And Bingo was his name-o. :thumbsup:

Here's a question that's never been asked - there were supposedly bruises and a cut inside of her va-jay-jay which suggest sexual intercourse. Isn't it possible that she had sex with someone else before she started bar-ratting that night?

Oh that's right - poor, innocent little college girl. My bad.

plenewken
04-16-2010, 08:28 AM
And Bingo was his name-o. :thumbsup:

Here's a question that's never been asked - there were supposedly bruises and a cut inside of her va-jay-jay which suggest sexual intercourse. Isn't it possible that she had sex with someone else before she started bar-ratting that night?

Oh that's right - poor, innocent little college girl. My bad.

Yes, it's possible. It's possible that she has a regular boyfriend and had sex with him before going out that night. What does that prove?

WH
04-16-2010, 09:05 AM
Yes, it's possible. It's possible that she has a regular boyfriend and had sex with him before going out that night. What does that prove?
It doesn't PROVE anything, but it would add a new angle to this story (that should have been over and done with 5 days ago.

mesaSteeler
04-16-2010, 09:12 AM
GBI Tried to Investigate Another Roethlisberger Sex Accusation
http://www.11alive.com/news/local/story.aspx?storyid=142928&catid=3
Last Updated On: 4/16/2010 12:25:30 AM

MILLEDGEVILLE, Ga. -- Ben Roethlisberger won't face charges in the sexual assault case that just ended in Milledgeville. But the GBI case file obtained by 11Alive Thursday sheds new insight on both what happened in the Capital City nightclub, and new allegations of what may have happened in a separate incident at Roethlisberger's Lake Oconee home with another Georgia woman.

According to the GBI report, ten days after the March 4 bar incident, a young man in the Explorers Program of the Milledgeville Police Department told police "information about [a friend's] sister".

The report states that the Explorer told police his friend told him, the young woman was acting as a designated driver one night for Roethlisberger. When she helped him to get inside his Lake Oconee home, the report says, "Roethlisberger pulled his pants down".

The Explorer told the GBI his friend told him that on another occasion, "Roethlisberger was allegedly forceful with [his sister] and put his hand up [her] skirt" at a party at his home.

According to the GBI report, investigators contacted the woman three times as part of their investigation into the Capital City bar incident, but she refused to cooperate.

The investigation was dropped and no charges were ever filed.

WHAT HAPPENED AT CAPITAL CITY?

The GBI report compiles accounts of police, friends of the accuser, and even friends of the Super Bowl MVP who were with him March 4 at the Capital City nightclub, the night when a 20-year-old Georgia College and State University Student says he sexually assaulted her.

One of her friends told police she "was dragged by a body guard to the back room in capital".

Another said, "I watched my friend attempt to unlock the door where [the accuser] and Ben were and she was taken away by a body guard of Ben's".

In another section, a friend told police she was told, "he walked back to where she was with his [genitals] already out of his pants".

In her own handwriting, the 20-year-old at the center of the investigation told police, "I don't know if this is a good idea and he said 'It's OK." He had sex w/ me and meanwhile his bodyguards told my friends they couldn't pass them to get to me."

According to friends, the first officer they asked for help on the streets afterwards, Sgt. Jerry Blash, said that Roethlisberger "has a lot of money and that it would be wasting their time".

According to the report, Blash acknowledged saying something like "this ___ is drunk off her ___ accusing Ben of assaulting her". He said the comment was intended for other officers but may have been overheard by Roethlisberger's bodyguards.

All along, Roethlisberger has maintained his innocence. He and a group of friends, including two off-duty police officers from the Pittsburgh area, had traveled there two days after his 28th birthday.

According to the report, Roethlisberger had a quick conversation with police. They say he implied that one of the accuser's friends instigated the report of sexual assault because he had ignored the friend.

The two-time Super Bowl champion returned to practice Wednesday for the first time since the allegations surfaced in Milledgeville. On Thursday, team President Art Rooney II said that they were coordinating a penalty for the quarterback, and would announce his punishment with in weeks.

(Another incident?!!!! Roethlisberger is coming off as a drunken serial sex abuser. I'd give a lot to know if the girl was bought off not to press charges. No wonder the Rooney's are taking their time in deciding what to do. If I were them I'd be hiring investigators to check ever detail of every incident. - mesa)

fansince'76
04-16-2010, 09:21 AM
According to the GBI report, ten days after the March 4 bar incident, a young man in the Explorers Program of the Milledgeville Police Department told police "information about [a friend's] sister".

:rolleyes:

And I heard through the father of an uncle of a sister of a friend of a friend of a friend of a friend that Ben's a prick. :yawn:

steelcity1974
04-16-2010, 09:24 AM
The GBI report compiles accounts of police, friends of the accuser, and even friends of the [B]Super Bowl MVP who were with him March 4 at the Capital City nightclub, the night when a 20-year-old Georgia College and State University Student says he sexually assaulted her.


This is the first time I've heard Santonio was there. Or was it Hines? :blah:

WH
04-16-2010, 09:26 AM
:rolleyes:

And I heard through the father of an uncle of a sister of a friend of a friend of a friend of a friend that Ben's a prick. :yawn:

And I heard from my sisters' husbands' half brother with the gimpy leg's coworkers friend Bill that Ben punched a kitten out of the arms of a girl scout.

Let's file a police report and get on the news.

WH
04-16-2010, 09:28 AM
This is the first time I've heard Santonio was there. Or was it Hines? :blah:

well, they're making shit up as they go along now anyways, so why not make Ben SB MVP too.

FantasyMan
04-16-2010, 09:29 AM
The 572 pages of documents released on Thursday by the Georgia Bureau of Investigation likely contain plenty of useless and irrelevant stuff. But, apparently, the materials contain some interesting information that could make things even more difficult for Steelers quarterback Ben Roethlisberger.

Buried in an item in the Atlanta Journal-Constitution regarding the newly-available materials appears reference to an "unsubstantiated allegation" that a "drunken Roethlisberger" made an "unwanted advance" at another Milledgeville-area woman on an unspecified date during a party at Roethlisberger's house in the area.

Per the GBI information, Roethlisberger allegedly pulled down his pants and told the woman she could "do whatever she wants." A week later, he allegedly forced his hand up the same woman's skirt. The woman was able to get away, and her father advised her not to file a formal criminal complaint.


http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/04/16/gbi-documents-contain-evidence-of-another-roethlisberger-allegation/


This guy is a scumbag and doesn't deserve to be a Steeler.

steelcity1974
04-16-2010, 09:29 AM
Plaxico Burress accidentally shot Santonio Holmes in the leg at a night club causing Mr. Holmes to throw a drink in Ben Roethlisberger's face which caused Mr. Roethlisberger to accidentally grope the nearest waitress. The sound of the shot startled Jeff Reed, sending him into a frenzy causing him to accidentally smash the men's room towel dispenser, startling Matt Spaeth, who then lost control of his bladder.
All of this angered a Mr. Harrison causing him to punch a near-by woman. A confused Joey Porter mistakenly attacked the responding police officer.

plenewken
04-16-2010, 09:36 AM
Plaxico Burress accidentally shot Santonio Holmes in the leg at a night club causing Mr. Holmes to throw a drink in Ben Roethlisberger's face which caused Mr. Roethlisberger to accidentally grope the nearest waitress. The sound of the shot startled Jeff Reed, sending him into a frenzy causing him to accidentally smash the men's room towel dispenser, startling Matt Spaeth, who then lost control of his bladder.
All of this angered a Mr. Harrison causing him to punch a near-by woman. A confused Joey Porter mistakenly attacked the responding police officer.


LMAO. Good one!

SteveS
04-16-2010, 09:37 AM
It seems a lot of people are claiming that Ben is guilty of being a creep and a jerk in the Georgia incident. May I ask what proof you have of that?

You claim he is an awful human being for feeding a group of underage girls shots of alcohol in the bar? I say it isn't his damn responsibilty as a patron to ID other patrons in the bar. If the girl used a fake ID to already obtain drinks on her own, then you can't fault Ben for assuming she was at least 21. I fault the bar for letting that slip by them.

You say he is a jerk or a creep for having a consensual sexual liason in a restroom with a girl over 18 years of age? Dumb? Perhaps. But honestly what guy doesn't fantasize about hooking up with a chick in a place like that?

It infuriates me to NO END that not only is so many people still acting like a rape took place, but even many of those that aren't going that far are STILL acting like he was a creep and a jerk and a bad person for doing what he did. Maybe a horney person, but not a horrible person.

I could go on and on.

bigbenrules4000
04-16-2010, 09:53 AM
I'm agree wit you Steve S.

Dodt
04-16-2010, 09:54 AM
It seems a lot of people are claiming that Ben is guilty of being a creep and a jerk in the Georgia incident. May I ask what proof you have of that?

You claim he is an awful human being for feeding a group of underage girls shots of alcohol in the bar? I say it isn't his damn responsibilty as a patron to ID other patrons in the bar. If the girl used a fake ID to already obtain drinks on her own, then you can't fault Ben for assuming she was at least 21. I fault the bar for letting that slip by them.

You say he is a jerk or a creep for having a consensual sexual liason in a restroom with a girl over 18 years of age? Dumb? Perhaps. But honestly what guy doesn't fantasize about hooking up with a chick in a place like that?

It infuriates me to NO END that not only is so many people still acting like a rape took place, but even many of those that aren't going that far are STILL acting like he was a creep and a jerk and a bad person for doing what he did. Maybe a horney person, but not a horrible person.

I could go on and on.

:thumbsup:

SteveS
04-16-2010, 10:30 AM
Anyone listening to Colin Cowherd now? Is is going on an on saying that because there are so many witness reports saying what he did, he tends to side with the witnesses! Does that idio realise that all of the witnesses are the girl's friends and all of their "stories" contradict each other right and left?!?!

One caller then got on there comparing his case to Pacman Jones saying that Pacman was never charges and the cases against him were foggy and that Ben should be out of the league for a year. This is getting out of hand!

FantasyMan
04-16-2010, 10:44 AM
It seems a lot of people are claiming that Ben is guilty of being a creep and a jerk in the Georgia incident. May I ask what proof you have of that?

You claim he is an awful human being for feeding a group of underage girls shots of alcohol in the bar? I say it isn't his damn responsibilty as a patron to ID other patrons in the bar. If the girl used a fake ID to already obtain drinks on her own, then you can't fault Ben for assuming she was at least 21. I fault the bar for letting that slip by them.

You say he is a jerk or a creep for having a consensual sexual liason in a restroom with a girl over 18 years of age? Dumb? Perhaps. But honestly what guy doesn't fantasize about hooking up with a chick in a place like that?

It infuriates me to NO END that not only is so many people still acting like a rape took place, but even many of those that aren't going that far are STILL acting like he was a creep and a jerk and a bad person for doing what he did. Maybe a horney person, but not a horrible person.

I could go on and on.


And this is why so many women DON'T come forward with rape allegations.

:banging:


Four incidents, now. Where there's smoke, there's fire. Ben is a piece of shit.

FantasyMan
04-16-2010, 10:47 AM
Anyone listening to Colin Cowherd now? Is is going on an on saying that because there are so many witness reports saying what he did, he tends to side with the witnesses! Does that idio realise that all of the witnesses are the girl's friends and all of their "stories" contradict each other right and left?!?!

One caller then got on there comparing his case to Pacman Jones saying that Pacman was never charges and the cases against him were foggy and that Ben should be out of the league for a year. This is getting out of hand!

What's out of hand is people blindly defending this guy. Support for the Steelers I can understand, we should all support the team. The problem is that there is no room for this scumbag on this team, it's not what we're about.

SteelCityMom
04-16-2010, 10:51 AM
And this is why so many women DON'T come forward with rape allegations.

:banging:


Four incidents, now. Where there's smoke, there's fire. Ben is a piece of shit.

Four incidents now? Whaaa huh?

whatdoiknow
04-16-2010, 10:52 AM
What's out of hand is people blindly defending this guy. Support for the Steelers I can understand, we should all support the team. The problem is that there is no room for this scumbag on this team, it's not what we're about.




No,,there is no room for obviously UNINFORMED Dolts like you on this Board.
Pac-Man WAS Arrested 7 times, and convicted 4 of them BEFORE that last Incident where he was suspended before that case played out..( E.G.,,,Past CONFIRMED
Infractions )...Ben has NEVER had any past " CONFIRMED " Infractions against him.
Or maybe you can enlighten ALL of us about some that we are missing here.



Go away little Boy!

Edman
04-16-2010, 10:55 AM
I don't know what's more ridiculous. The alleged incidents or the people coming to the rescue for Ben in this topic. Getting accused of SA may reek of gold-digger ship, but twice is too much to be a coincidence. Something is seriously wrong with this dude.

I don't care if we have a string of losing seasons. Ben's gotta go, and this isn't because of this incident, this is his THIRD offseason incident since he's been here. He has it on the field, but as a far as being a leader and setting an example for his teammates and this organization off the field, he's been a dud.

I'm not saying he should be a perfect choir boy, I'm not saying he can't go out and party. Pretty much every NFL player goes out and parties. But it's not them who go out and get accused of sexual assault afterwards. No one on the Steelers are choir boys, but it's Ben who's going around looking like a hairless ape and getting these allegations of sexual assault and stirring up controversy. Not Hines. Not Troy. Not Harrison. Nobody else.

It's Ben. He's a problem. He's become a cancer. He needs to go. For those of you who say: "But he wasn't convicted! You can't do anything to him!" That's funny, because O.J Simpson wasn't convicted either.

SteveS
04-16-2010, 10:57 AM
I am not blindly defending anyone considering I have followed the case closely, read all of the reports and am up on all of the evidence. There clearly is not enough evidence to claim he did anything illegal let alone treat anyone like an a$$hole that night. All we know is he treated the girls to shots of alcohol, all of which he had no reason to assume they were anything but of legal age to drink and had some sort of consensual liason in the restroom. All of these "witnesses" stores don't match up and she had only trace amounts of male DNA on her proving that he only likely touched her private area and did not have intercourse with her unless he used a condom. Then again the girl claimed he had unprotected sex with her, which would seem to kill that thought anyways.

If anyone is blindly believing anything its you.

FantasyMan
04-16-2010, 11:01 AM
Four incidents now? Whaaa huh?

Another woman in Georgia, it's in the investigation documents that were released:

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/04/16/gbi-documents-contain-evidence-of-another-roethlisberger-allegation/?related=1&utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

whatdoiknow
04-16-2010, 11:10 AM
I don't know what's more ridiculous. The alleged incidents or the people coming to the rescue for Ben in this topic. Getting accused of SA may reek of gold-digger ship, but twice is too much to be a coincidence. Something is seriously wrong with this dude.

I don't care if we have a string of losing seasons. Ben's gotta go, and this isn't because of this incident, this is his THIRD offseason incident since he's been here. He has it on the field, but as a far as being a leader and setting an example for his teammates and this organization off the field, he's been a dud.

I'm not saying he should be a perfect choir boy, I'm not saying he can't go out and party. Pretty much every NFL player goes out and parties. But it's not them who go out and get accused of sexual assault afterwards. No one on the Steelers are choir boys, but it's Ben who's going around looking like a hairless ape and getting these allegations of sexual assault and stirring up controversy. Not Hines. Not Troy. Not Harrison. Nobody else.

It's Ben. He's a problem. He's become a cancer. He needs to go. For those of you who say: "But he wasn't convicted! You can't do anything to him!" That's funny, because O.J Simpson wasn't convicted either.






Edmond...the so-called " First time ",,Ah,,where exactly was Ben Partying ?
And when EXACTLY was Ben ever Investigated for a SA ? Oh yeah thats right...HE WASN'T!!! The EX-Hotel worker never went to the police. And her own co-worker and BEST Friend said that she was bragging about having sex with Ben, and that she was going to have his kids. Now Edmond, I'm no Attorney but that sounds like Ben DIDN'T ask her to Marry him the next day,,and she kinda took it personal. So there was NO 1st Incident son. If there is no official Police filing...then there is NO 1st Incident.



Please remove head from Butt!!

FantasyMan
04-16-2010, 11:10 AM
I am not blindly defending anyone considering I have followed the case closely, read all of the reports and am up on all of the evidence. There clearly is not enough evidence to claim he did anything illegal let alone treat anyone like an a$$hole that night. All we know is he treated the girls to shots of alcohol, all of which he had no reason to assume they were anything but of legal age to drink and had some sort of consensual liason in the restroom. All of these "witnesses" stores don't match up and she had only trace amounts of male DNA on her proving that he only likely touched her private area and did not have intercourse with her unless he used a condom. Then again the girl claimed he had unprotected sex with her, which would seem to kill that thought anyways.

If anyone is blindly believing anything its you.

All we know is that he treated the girls to shots of alcohol and he didn't know their age? Really??

According to Garofalo, his entourage — which included off-duty Pennsylvania State Trooper Ed Joyner and Coraopolis Officer Tony Barravecchio — "even asked our age and were kind of surprised when I said 19 and the other girls, 20."

http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/sports/steelers/s_676653.html


You also must have missed these parts while you were reading:

The accuser says when she arrived to the VIP area, Ben's bodyguard grabbed her by the arm and brought her to a "side door/hallway and sat me on a stool." The accuser continues, "[the bodyguard] left and Ben came back with his penis out of his pants. I told him it wasn't OK." The accuser claims she tried to leave through a nearby door, which turned out to be a restroom. The woman claims she continued to tell Ben that "It was not OK," but he had sex with her anyway. The woman told cops Ben "then left without saying anything."

http://www.tmz.com/2010/04/15/ben-roethlisberger-accuser-statement-sexual-assault-bodyguard/


"He had sex w/me and meanwhile his bodyguards told my friends they couldn't pass them to get to me," the accuser wrote in her statement, which was reported in the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette.

The woman also told him "no, this is not OK," according to the statement.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=5094224


In police documents released Thursday, the woman says Roethlisberger told her and her friends to take numerous shots of alcohol before one of his bodyguards took her to a hallway in the nightclub. She says Roethlisberger came into the hallway and after she tried to get away from him, Roethlisberger followed her into a bathroom.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5iP-BtJ3bxItDKyPsjvLXI5B8KfmAD9F3NOPO0



And here's the complete 23 pages:

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/years/2010/0415101roethlisberger1.html



The guy is garbage.

steelreserve
04-16-2010, 11:12 AM
No,,there is no room for obviously UNINFORMED Dolts like you on this Board.
Pac-Man WAS Arrested 7 times, and convicted 4 of them BEFORE that last Incident where he was suspended before that case played out..( E.G.,,,Past CONFIRMED
Infractions )...Ben has NEVER had any past " CONFIRMED " Infractions against him.
Or maybe you can enlighten ALL of us about some that we are missing here.

May I suggest that, when we're consistently using Michael Vick and Pacman Jones as standards of comparison when we're talking about our own players' conduct ... that is just not a good state of affairs in general.

Right:
"LOL, look at what that idiot Pacman Jones got in trouble for. I'm glad you don't hear about one of our players getting involved in some sketchy nightclub confrontation every time you turn on the TV."

Wrong:
"Well, what Pacman did was worse than what our guy did because he was actually charged, and he got a 10-game suspension, so our guy should get less."


See what I'm getting at?

whatdoiknow
04-16-2010, 11:21 AM
May I suggest that, when we're consistently using Michael Vick and Pacman Jones as standards of comparison when we're talking about our own players' conduct ... that is just not a good state of affairs in general.

Right:
"LOL, look at what that idiot Pacman Jones got in trouble for. I'm glad you don't hear about one of our players getting involved in some sketchy nightclub confrontation every time you turn on the TV."

Wrong:
"Well, what Pacman did was worse than what our guy did because he was actually charged, and he got a 10-game suspension, so our guy should get less."


See what I'm getting at?





Forget Pacman. How about our OWN players like Harrison, Marvel Smith, Jeff Reed,
and many others who have been PROVEN for their wrong-doings,,,unlike Ben. Didn't they bring " SHAME " to the Steelers and the Rooney name ? And remind me again....HOW many games were they all suspended for ?

SteveS
04-16-2010, 11:25 AM
Fantasyman, obviously you are taking the word of the girl and her friends as the gospel. You would make a HORRIBLE jurer. One friend says she was dragged in the restroom by his bodyguard and the girl herself said he followed her in there. Then she says he had unprotected sex with her. If that occured his DNA would be all over her vaginal area, hence there was barely any. Maybe he used a condom, but then that would contradict what she claimed anyways. These girl's stories wreak of ass to me and its ashamed that people like you and the majority of the media is ignoring stuff like that, because they guy is getting absolutely crucified over this.

FantasyMan
04-16-2010, 11:32 AM
Fantasyman, obviously you are taking the word of the girl and her friends as the gospel. You would make a HORRIBLE jurer. One friend says she was dragged in the restroom by his bodyguard and the girl herself said he followed her in there. Then she says he had unprotected sex with her. If that occured his DNA would be all over her vaginal area, hence there was barely any. Maybe he used a condom, but then that would contradict what she claimed anyways. These girl's stories wreak of ass to me and its ashamed that people like you and the majority of the media is ignoring stuff like that, because they guy is getting absolutely crucified over this.

Actually, no. I'm taking the word of the drunk girls and connecting the dots with the 2 other seperate incidents that have been reported (ignoring the case in Las Vegas, as I believe that woman is just a gold digger). If it were just this one incident, I wouldn't believe that Ben was guilty - stupid, but not guilty. With the additional evidence that has now come forth the only people who can continue to defend this guy are the blind or those who are crazy enough to believe that there's a vast conspiracy out there among young women who he comes across.

There is no room for this type of player on the Steelers. We're not the Raiders or the Bengals, we can win without the dirtbags.

SteveS
04-16-2010, 11:38 AM
What other two incidents? To vague accusations of people that aren't even the alleged victims themselves and the cases aren't even under further investigation with the cops? Come on!Quit convicting the guy just because a couple of people are trying to stir stuff up after this has all blown up.

Stanley
04-16-2010, 11:50 AM
I don't know whether or not Big Ben has actually committed a crime, but the image that emerges from the accounts of what occurred is of an arrogant, crude, vulgar jerk.

SteveS
04-16-2010, 11:58 AM
And I say prove that he acted like a crude, arrogant, jerk. And no, he-said she-said stories from her friends that contradict each other ARE'T good enough.

Sansi
04-16-2010, 12:09 PM
And I say prove that he acted like a crude, arrogant, jerk. And no, he-said she-said stories from her friends that contradict each other ARE'T good enough.


So when he is suspended at the behest of the Rooney family are they also blind idiots who just randomly believe whatever a dumb drunk girl says? And when the front office is not denying reports that they would explore trades with other teams because of how sickening this all is are they, the architects of two recent superbowl teams, a collection of idiots blinded by a fanatical zeal to see Ben shipped off?

bozz723
04-16-2010, 12:18 PM
All we know is that he treated the girls to shots of alcohol and he didn't know their age? Really??

According to Garofalo, his entourage — which included off-duty Pennsylvania State Trooper Ed Joyner and Coraopolis Officer Tony Barravecchio — "even asked our age and were kind of surprised when I said 19 and the other girls, 20."

http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/sports/steelers/s_676653.html


You also must have missed these parts while you were reading:

The accuser says when she arrived to the VIP area, Ben's bodyguard grabbed her by the arm and brought her to a "side door/hallway and sat me on a stool." The accuser continues, "[the bodyguard] left and Ben came back with his penis out of his pants. I told him it wasn't OK." The accuser claims she tried to leave through a nearby door, which turned out to be a restroom. The woman claims she continued to tell Ben that "It was not OK," but he had sex with her anyway. The woman told cops Ben "then left without saying anything."

http://www.tmz.com/2010/04/15/ben-roethlisberger-accuser-statement-sexual-assault-bodyguard/


"He had sex w/me and meanwhile his bodyguards told my friends they couldn't pass them to get to me," the accuser wrote in her statement, which was reported in the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette.

The woman also told him "no, this is not OK," according to the statement.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=5094224


In police documents released Thursday, the woman says Roethlisberger told her and her friends to take numerous shots of alcohol before one of his bodyguards took her to a hallway in the nightclub. She says Roethlisberger came into the hallway and after she tried to get away from him, Roethlisberger followed her into a bathroom.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5iP-BtJ3bxItDKyPsjvLXI5B8KfmAD9F3NOPO0



And here's the complete 23 pages:

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/years/2010/0415101roethlisberger1.html



The guy is garbage.



You literally have no clue what you're talking about. Have you ever even been to a bar before? You can't tell peoples ages in a bar of 20 somethings. She probably got in with a fake ID, and you can't tell the difference between 20,21,22, etc...



Obviously this is all total BS. She wanted to party with Ben, she wanted to do shots with Ben or she wouldn't have. To be honest, dudes buy girls shots all the ****ing time to try to get laid, do they MAKE them take those shots???

Ben for sure is a lowlife for wanting to bang the girl in the bathroom but there is no way in hell she couldn't have stopped it. This same situation happens every night somewhere in America.


Not to mention, the girl was hammered so probably didn't say any of that.

steelreserve
04-16-2010, 12:21 PM
Forget Pacman. How about our OWN players like Harrison, Marvel Smith, Jeff Reed,
and many others who have been PROVEN for their wrong-doings,,,unlike Ben. Didn't they bring " SHAME " to the Steelers and the Rooney name ? And remind me again....HOW many games were they all suspended for ?

You're ignoring the big picture of the point I was trying to make. Nothing done by our own players has made our team into a national circus on a level even CLOSE to what Ben did. You can spend all day asking people in all caps if they "even UNDERSTAND the difference between ACCUSED and CONVICTED" and you're still completely missing the point.

The point is not whether or not Ben should be suspended -- I've never said he necessarily should be, by the way, in this thread or any other. The point that you (and others) would be well-advised to consider is that -- just as accusations do not always equal guilt -- being cleared of criminal charges does not always equal a vote of confidence in someone's behavior. All it says is, "We can't prove you did something so terrible that you should be thrown in prison." Should we be proud of him for that?

THAT'S the point I'm getting at. At this point in time, if someone asked me what I thought about Ben Roethlisberger, I couldn't be anything resembling "proud" of his behavior, or really have anything but a resigned or embarrassed attitude. Sure, the accusations didn't clear the bar of criminal prosecution, but does that mean everything that went on had a zero level of shadiness, just as if he was sitting at home playing the PS3? You bet your ass it doesn't.

It's pretty obvious -- unless you're burying your head so deep in the sand that you're beyond help -- that whatever went on there was somewhat slimy and nothing to be proud of. Exactly how slimy is open to interpretation, but if you really still believe the whole thing was made up entirely, I'd say you're borderline delusional. THAT'S what most people can see, and that's what's embarrassing, and that's why people are making Pacman Jones and Michael Vick comparisons. THAT'S why it's a bad thing to be mentioning those idiots in the same breath as one of our own players. You're seriously wondering why this garners more attention than a routine weed bust, or knocking a towel dispenser off the wall? You must be incredibly dense, or just trying to change the argument to suit your viewpoint by cherry-picking examples that don't really fit.

It's really apples and oranges at this point, but for the record, if the full extent of the Harrison incident had been known at the time, he probably would've been suspended. Maybe even traded or released, who knows. And yes, it would've been magnified if he was a bona fide superstar at the time, not just another above-average linebacker. It would be doubly magnified if he was already in another domestic violence controversy, legitimate or not. Bottom line: If you know you're already trying to fight a reputation as a boorish jock, anyone with half a brain ought to know better.

Sansi
04-16-2010, 12:21 PM
Ben for sure is a lowlife for wanting to bang the girl in the bathroom but there is no way in hell she couldn't have stopped it....


Not to mention, the girl was hammered....

Hmmm...

SteelCityMom
04-16-2010, 12:22 PM
All we know is that he treated the girls to shots of alcohol and he didn't know their age? Really??

You mean he bought some girls some shots....IN A BAR! The audacity. You do know it's not up to him to check ID's right? Ever think he just figured that girls drinking in a bar = 21 or over?

According to Garofalo, his entourage — which included off-duty Pennsylvania State Trooper Ed Joyner and Coraopolis Officer Tony Barravecchio — "even asked our age and were kind of surprised when I said 19 and the other girls, 20."

IF (big if) this were true at the time...then don't you think the girls should have refused the shots? *GASP* Underage college girl accepts alcoholic beverage in a bar! Shocking.


The rest is just more posturing from college girls who dared to break the barriers of youth and take a sip of that sweet devil juice (no not Ben)...alcohol. I question their memory and their truthfulness.

While you've made a good point in that people should not just blindly defend Ben, nobody should be blindly believing the words of some drunk sorority sisters. The truth probably lies somewhere in the middle (it usually does). But we'll never know for sure.

As to the other "accusation" being posted...big shocker that someone else (who Ben probably came onto when drunk) has decided to accuse him w/o ever going to the police. And by her own words, put herself alone in a room with him after the first time he "assaulted" her. She's either lying, or isn't the sharpest tool in the tool shed.

Let's just not go off the deep end here and start setting our opinions of anyone in stone without really knowing the facts of any claim.

d2609j
04-16-2010, 12:23 PM
Ben said in his original statement to police that sexual intercourse didn't occur between them. He has yet to contradict that, nor have his lawyers.

Rooney said. “We've made it very clear to Ben that there will be consequences for his actions. And Ben has indicated to us that he's willing to accept those consequences.”

Sounds like an admission to me. You don't accept consequences for doing nothing wrong.

Sansi
04-16-2010, 12:27 PM
Yeah it is real important a guy being accused of sexual assault did not admit to intercourse with the girl.

d2609j
04-16-2010, 12:28 PM
What does a condom have to do with anything? You said serial rapist....where's your proof. Back up your statements fool.

Also, I don't have a 20 year old daughter.

So if you did have a daughter, you would be ok with gentle ben buying her drinks all night, and then bending her over a toilet, against her will?

SteelCityMom
04-16-2010, 12:38 PM
So if you did have a daughter, you would be ok with gentle ben buying her drinks all night, and then bending her over a toilet, against her will?

I do have a daughter...she's just not 20. And no, I wouldn't be ok with her being in a bar at that age let alone being bent over a toilet. If she did it of her own free will...her mistake and I'd hope she'd own up to it. If she was forced, I'd hope that she would have the will to stand up in court and face her attacker. Isn't anybody else a little perplexed that "all these women" who are coming forward either, never went to the police or have dropped their charges....essentially saying "we're just going to let a rapist walk the streets".


But where's your proof that whatever happened wasn't consensual? You must be some kind of ace detective or psychic or something to be privy to information that not even the GBI could come up with. Instead of posturing to me about what I would or would not let my daughter do, shouldn't you be rushing to the DA to provide him with this obvious ground-breaking evidence you have?

bozz723
04-16-2010, 12:51 PM
I do have a daughter...she's just not 20. And no, I wouldn't be ok with her being in a bar at that age let alone being bent over a toilet. If she did it of her own free will...her mistake and I'd hope she'd own up to it. If she was forced, I'd hope that she would have the will to stand up in court and face her attacker. Isn't anybody else a little perplexed that "all these women" who are coming forward either, never went to the police or have dropped their charges....essentially saying "we're just going to let a rapist walk the streets".


But where's your proof that whatever happened wasn't consensual? You must be some kind of ace detective or psychic or something to be privy to information that not even the GBI could come up with. Instead of posturing to me about what I would or would not let my daughter do, shouldn't you be rushing to the DA to provide him with this obvious ground-breaking evidence you have?
You are so right. There is ZERO proof it wasn't consensual and if there was he would be up for rape charges. Simple as that. Bottom line she COULD HAVE STOPPED HIM FROM HAVING SEX WITH HER.

revefsreleets
04-16-2010, 12:57 PM
I don't know what actually happened. Nobody probably ever will...so I'm done commenting on that part.

But I will say this...this dude is ANTI-smooth. He's also not very good looking. With lines like "Bitches take my shots" and "I'm not down to eff, but I like to eff girls" as his come-ons, if this dude wasn't raking in fat cash and famous, he would NEVER EVER EVER get laid.

whatdoiknow
04-16-2010, 01:02 PM
Ben did agree to whatever punishment. But that's because Ben does admit that if wasn't the best of decisions to have a sexual act in a public place. Ben never said the alligations were true. In fact just the oppisite. But this whole back in forth thing is ridiculous. We KNOW that there will be some kind of punishment by the Steelers/league. And we know Ben will abide by it. The only thing I have a problem with is people saying he should get at least 4 games suspension, and maybe more. And that is ridiculous when you figure that Brandon Marshall only got 2 games,,,reduced to 1 when he absolutely beat up his girlfriend on multiple occasions. And had Issues when he was back in school as well. Giving Ben more game suspensions when NOTHING Illegal was ever proven over a guy who beat the hell out of a women is the stupidest of rulings. And if I were Ben, and he did get more suspended games, I would totally fight that.

steelerschik
04-16-2010, 01:14 PM
I do have a daughter...she's just not 20. And no, I wouldn't be ok with her being in a bar at that age let alone being bent over a toilet. If she did it of her own free will...her mistake and I'd hope she'd own up to it. If she was forced, I'd hope that she would have the will to stand up in court and face her attacker. Isn't anybody else a little perplexed that "all these women" who are coming forward either, never went to the police or have dropped their charges....essentially saying "we're just going to let a rapist walk the streets".


But where's your proof that whatever happened wasn't consensual? You must be some kind of ace detective or psychic or something to be privy to information that not even the GBI could come up with. Instead of posturing to me about what I would or would not let my daughter do, shouldn't you be rushing to the DA to provide him with this obvious ground-breaking evidence you have?

Your first paragraph is so spot on, I had to sign on to say yay! Also I have used this case as an example to my daughter who will soon be in college of what NOT to do. Never stalk a man of any celebrity or noncelebrity status from bar to bar...that's #1 no-no. Watch how much you drink or this could be you. God, just find out what your limit is and stop, it really isn't hard to do if you don't want to make an ass out of yourself. I ever catch her wearing a tag with DTF or any thing like it, it will be the sorriest day of her life! And never, ever EVER accept an "invitation" to a VIP or any other kind of private room. Stay out in the general public where everyone can see you. These things aren't too hard to follow.

BTW, there is no proof that it wasn't consenual. This girl has changed her mind 3 times and with every other little thing coming out, I'm buying it even less and less. Girl with too much to drink suffering regrets of a decision I'm sure she'd rather take back. If she were my daughter, I damn straight will not stop pressing charges, I wouldn't care if they drug up the most humiliating situations my daughter has ever been in. The perv would be prosecuted. Makes my wonder how much derrogatory information Georgia virgin girl has in her background.

WH
04-16-2010, 01:35 PM
BTW, there is no proof that it wasn't consenual. This girl has changed her mind 3 times and with every other little thing coming out, I'm buying it even less and less. Girl with too much to drink suffering regrets of a decision I'm sure she'd rather take back. If she were my daughter, I damn straight will not stop pressing charges, I wouldn't care if they drug up the most humiliating situations my daughter has ever been in. The perv would be prosecuted. Makes my wonder how much derrogatory information Georgia virgin girl has in her background.

And yet, after all this...they've managed to keep this girls name a secret. I'd be willing to bet her daddy is a high up somewhere in either the public or private sector.

We knew McNutty's name days after the story broke, and yet we still have to refer to Ben's accuser in this situation as ''Georgia Sorority Milidgeville Bar Rat Angel Queen''

Sansi
04-16-2010, 01:41 PM
And yet, after all this...they've managed to keep this girls name a secret. I'd be willing to bet her daddy is a high up somewhere in either the public or private sector.

We knew McNutty's name days after the story broke, and yet we still have to refer to Ben's accuser in this situation as ''Georgia Sorority Milidgeville Bar Rat Angel Queen''

A civil case offers no protections to the accuser, thus her name was public record. A sexual assault allegation is not a civil suit but a legal proceeding. Sexual assault accusers receive anonymity.

SteelGhost
04-16-2010, 01:43 PM
Your first paragraph is so spot on, I had to sign on to say yay! Also I have used this case as an example to my daughter who will soon be in college of what NOT to do. Never stalk a man of any celebrity or noncelebrity status from bar to bar...that's #1 no-no. Watch how much you drink or this could be you. God, just find out what your limit is and stop, it really isn't hard to do if you don't want to make an ass out of yourself. I ever catch her wearing a tag with DTF or any thing like it, it will be the sorriest day of her life! And never, ever EVER accept an "invitation" to a VIP or any other kind of private room. Stay out in the general public where everyone can see you. These things aren't too hard to follow.

BTW, there is no proof that it wasn't consenual. This girl has changed her mind 3 times and with every other little thing coming out, I'm buying it even less and less. Girl with too much to drink suffering regrets of a decision I'm sure she'd rather take back. If she were my daughter, I damn straight will not stop pressing charges, I wouldn't care if they drug up the most humiliating situations my daughter has ever been in. The perv would be prosecuted. Makes my wonder how much derrogatory information Georgia virgin girl has in her background.

**Not taking sides, just commenting on this matter**

That being said, one part has been overlooked IMO, the woman said "he had sex with me", she NEVER said "he FORCED me to have sex with him" :noidea:

steelreserve
04-16-2010, 01:47 PM
And yet, after all this...they've managed to keep this girls name a secret. I'd be willing to bet her daddy is a high up somewhere in either the public or private sector.

We knew McNutty's name days after the story broke, and yet we still have to refer to Ben's accuser in this situation as ''Georgia Sorority Milidgeville Bar Rat Angel Queen''

I don't think how "well-connected" the girl's family is would have anything to do with it. Virtually all mainstream news outlets have a policy of not naming the victim in criminal sexual assault cases unless there's a compelling reason to do so. Usually some sleazeball publication will find it and publish it eventually, but sometimes that takes a while. In the Kobe Bryant case, if I remember correctly, that took a few weeks or a month to happen. I bet you $100 it'll eventually leak out somehow, though; just give it time.

The McNutty case was different because there was never any attempt to keep her name secret. It was a civil case with no criminal case attached, and you heard the major news outlets say pretty early on that because of that - and the fact that the woman had basically come out and identified herself voluntarily - they were just going to go ahead and use her real name.

NJarhead
04-16-2010, 01:47 PM
**Not taking sides, just commenting on this matter**

That being said, one part has been overlooked IMO, the woman said "he had sex with me", she NEVER said "he FORCED me to have sex with him" :noidea:

If we're getting technical, she stated that she told him it was not right and that he proceeded anyway. Just because she didn't use the term rape does not change what she is suggesting. What she didn't say is "we" had sex. She said "he" had sex with me. Maybe it's true, maybe it's not. Just clarifying what is being said.

WH
04-16-2010, 01:49 PM
A civil case offers no protections to the accuser, thus her name was public record. A sexual assault allegation is not a civil suit but a legal proceeding. Sexual assault accusers receive anonymity.

Thank you Sansi. I was ignorant to that. Appreciated. :thumbsup:

One less thing to be fired up about.

SteelGhost
04-16-2010, 01:58 PM
If we're getting technical, she stated that she told him it was not right and that he proceeded anyway. Just because she didn't use the term rape does not change what she is suggesting. What she didn't say is "we" had sex. She said "he" had sex with me. Maybe it's true, maybe it's not. Just clarifying what is being said.

I'm not a lawyer but I think the DA doesn't proceed following suggestions in the alleged victims statements :noidea: Again, I'm just giving my personal opinion :wink:

FantasyMan
04-16-2010, 02:04 PM
I do have a daughter...she's just not 20. And no, I wouldn't be ok with her being in a bar at that age let alone being bent over a toilet. If she did it of her own free will...her mistake and I'd hope she'd own up to it. If she was forced, I'd hope that she would have the will to stand up in court and face her attacker. Isn't anybody else a little perplexed that "all these women" who are coming forward either, never went to the police or have dropped their charges....essentially saying "we're just going to let a rapist walk the streets".


But where's your proof that whatever happened wasn't consensual? You must be some kind of ace detective or psychic or something to be privy to information that not even the GBI could come up with. Instead of posturing to me about what I would or would not let my daughter do, shouldn't you be rushing to the DA to provide him with this obvious ground-breaking evidence you have?

With people like you in the world, what girl would want to go through a trial that wasn't a slam dunk?

Honestly...

NJarhead
04-16-2010, 02:05 PM
I'm not a lawyer but I think the DA doesn't proceed following suggestions in the alleged victims statements :noidea: Again, I'm just giving my personal opinion :wink:

Oh no, you're absolutely correct. I just wanted to be clear about her statement.

:drink:

Sansi
04-16-2010, 02:05 PM
I'm not a lawyer but I think the DA doesn't proceed following suggestions in the alleged victims statements :noidea: Again, I'm just giving my personal opinion :wink:

Well lots of folks are saying she accused him of rape/sexual assault. In reality she does not decide what the charges are, she just gives them information. It's probable she just felt overwhelmed/pressured into having sex by the circumstances and the alcohol addling her brain and brought this information to law enforcement.

It is drilled into my brain, and has been since I was barely a teenager, that you simply do not attempt sex with a girl who is inebriated. Too much can happen. The level of stupidity required to (ALLEGEDLY!) add bodyguards and everything else on top of this is staggering.

SteelCityMom
04-16-2010, 02:09 PM
With people like you in the world, what girl would want to go through a trial that wasn't a slam dunk?

Honestly...

Why? Because I know that there's two sides to the story and am willing to make an impartial decision based on evidence presented?

You are the type of person that would blindly ruin a persons life by jumping to conclusions. Now, don't you and others who are so 100% sure that he's a serial rapist and the scum of the earth have some damning evidence to go present to the DA...hurry, there's still time!

SteelGhost
04-16-2010, 02:11 PM
Oh no, you're absolutely correct. I just wanted to be clear about her statement.

:drink:

No problem TheWarDen86, I understand your intention :thumbsup: :drink:

SteelGhost
04-16-2010, 02:15 PM
Well lots of folks are saying she accused him of rape/sexual assault. In reality she does not decide what the charges are, she just gives them information. It's probable she just felt overwhelmed/pressured into having sex by the circumstances and the alcohol addling her brain and brought this information to law enforcement.

It is drilled into my brain, and has been since I was barely a teenager, that you simply do not attempt sex with a girl who is inebriated. Too much can happen. The level of stupidity required to (ALLEGEDLY!) add bodyguards and everything else on top of this is staggering.

I think it was her choice to drink, but what do I know :noidea:

Stone
04-16-2010, 02:16 PM
Why? Because I know that there's two sides to the story and am willing to make an impartial decision based on evidence presented?

You are the type of person that would blindly ruin a persons life by jumping to conclusions. Now, don't you and others who are so 100% sure that he's a serial rapist and the scum of the earth have some damning evidence to go present to the DA...hurry, there's still time!

This is for SteelCityMom, another side of the story FINALLY starts to emerge:

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/10106/1050884-66.stm

At the same time, one person in Mr. Roethlisberger's entourage, Mr. Colon, told police that the accuser repeatedly tried to get the quarterback's attention at a bar earlier in the evening, pinched Mr. Roethlisberger and, along with others in her party, wore a sexually suggestive nametag.

Mr. Colon said the woman asked him if he knew what her "DTF" nametag meant. She said it was a crude acronym for wanting to have sex.

Authorities have already said the woman was drunk -- so much so that an initial police report noted: "It is unclear to what happened after this point due to the complainant's recollection being foggy from her intoxication level."

Around 11 p.m, as the group entered Velvet Elvis, a group of women that included the accuser were at the end of the bar. Mr. Colon said the women recognized the quarterback and went "nutty."

"The girls approached Roethlisberger and asked to take photographs with him, and Roethlisberger accommodated their requests."

The women said they were wearing their provocative nametags, which they had received at a birthday party, because "they thought it was funny."

In the second of her two written statements, the accuser said she and her friends "left him alone."

Mr. Roethlisberger's group crossed the street to another bar, The Brick. Mr. Colon said the women followed them, although the accuser wrote that "We went to The Brick, where they happened to be. We continued to have casual conversation. He even made crude, sexual remarks."

While at The Brick, Mr. Colon said, the woman "repeatedly attempted to get Roethlisberger's attention, which included pinching him." She wrote that he called her "a tease."


In the first of her two written statements, the accuser told police that when she found herself in the room with Mr. Roethlisberger, "I said, 'I don't know if this is a good idea,' and he said, 'It's OK.' He had sex with me and meanwhile his bodyguards told my friends they couldn't pass them to get to me."

The woman's handwriting is clearly sloppier than in her subsequent statement, given later in the day. In the first statement, she refers to the quarterback as "Ben Rotheseburgehergh."

Trooper Joyner said he never stopped anyone from going in the hallway area of the bar and never saw anyone else in the group do so.

Officer Barravecchio said on Mr. Roethlisberger's instruction he showed a woman where the bathroom was but did not remain there. Instead, he went to the main bar to get Red Bulls for himself and Trooper Joyner.

Soon after, Sgt. Blash showed up at the club and said, "The way she says it happened, there is no way," Trooper Joyner said. He added that Sgt. Blash said the accuser had already changed her story several times.

Mr. Bright, the district attorney, said during his news conference that when the accuser first approached a police officer outside the nightclub immediately after the incident, "The police officer asked 'Did he rape you?' And her response was 'No.' Then he asked, 'Did you have sex?' And she said, 'Well, I'm not sure.'

steelerschik
04-16-2010, 02:17 PM
Why? Because I know that there's two sides to the story and am willing to make an impartial decision based on evidence presented?

You are the type of person that would blindly ruin a persons life by jumping to conclusions.

And unfortunately this is the general perception right now. I've always believed in the 2-sides to every story, but I gotta tell ya, I am amazed, absolutely FLABERGASTED at how many people believe everything they read/hear. I mean common sense would make you question some of these statements in the first place. Bodyguards dragging a girl in the bathroom, down the hall or whatever. Yeah, and I have Fred Flintstone's vision in my head with his club in his hand pulling Wilma down the hall by her hair. Come on. These are 2 off-duty cops, they aren't going to jeopardize their careers and if there was any suspicion that they did, the would be on some sort of disiciplinary action. This media is unrelenting and while I know Ben is stupid, makes bad decisions and seriously needs to change his ways, not everything you read is true. They need to get his side out there, him and his attorney need to talk, something, but this really needs to simmer down. It's reaching ridiculous proportions.

Sansi
04-16-2010, 02:18 PM
I think it was her choice to drink, but what do I know :noidea:

Perhaps the most irrelevant thing posted here. No one said she was held down and pumped full of alcohol. However it was consumed it left her in a less aware state than if she had not had it. A decision to consume alcohol does not negate everything that may occur for the remainder of the evening.

plenewken
04-16-2010, 02:26 PM
These are 2 off-duty cops, they aren't going to jeopardize their careers and if there was any suspicion that they did, the would be on some sort of disiciplinary action. .

Apparently the GA cop who called the woman "a drunk bitch" when he talked to Ben and his entourage after she reported the assault, was to face disciplinary action. Interestingly enough, he resigned.
How much do you want to bet that the 2 cops from Pittsburgh will be interviewed by their superiors? Off-duty or on-duty doesn't matter when you're a cop, you know.

SteelGhost
04-16-2010, 02:29 PM
Perhaps the most irrelevant thing posted here. No one said she was held down and pumped full of alcohol. However it was consumed it left her in a less aware state than if she had not had it. A decision to consume alcohol does not negate everything that may occur for the remainder of the evening.

Maybe i wasn't clear Sansi, what I meant it's that she put herself in a bad situation by drinking, so was Ben.

Again, I'm not taking sides here, just giving my opinion, if you consider some of them "irrelevant" I'm sorry.

Prok
04-16-2010, 02:31 PM
Why? Because I know that there's two sides to the story and am willing to make an impartial decision based on evidence presented?

You are the type of person that would blindly ruin a persons life by jumping to conclusions. Now, don't you and others who are so 100% sure that he's a serial rapist and the scum of the earth have some damning evidence to go present to the DA...hurry, there's still time!

I got a ton of respect for you SCM. My dad used to tell me that there are two sides to every story and the truth is ALWAYS in the middle. This case is no different.

:drink:

SteelGhost
04-16-2010, 02:33 PM
I got a ton of respect for you SCM. My dad used to tell me that there are two sides to every story and the truth is ALWAYS in the middle. This case is no different.

:drink:

+1 :thumbsup:

FantasyMan
04-16-2010, 02:39 PM
Why? Because I know that there's two sides to the story and am willing to make an impartial decision based on evidence presented?

You are the type of person that would blindly ruin a persons life by jumping to conclusions. Now, don't you and others who are so 100% sure that he's a serial rapist and the scum of the earth have some damning evidence to go present to the DA...hurry, there's still time!

Or you could jump to this conclusion:

"From the sticks she lured in Ben. She was able to manipulate him into buying drinks for underage girls. She was able to pre-arrange that he would have neandethals "guarding him" keeping men and boys at bay while allowing her access. She manipulated them into isolating her from apparent support groups apparently trapping her alone with him when that was her plan all along, concieved so long ago up in her dorm room. Then she sprung her trap. Diabolical."





Now start using common sense. Is it more likely that there are 3 girls (in totally separate incidents, none of whom stand to gain anything) who are totally making up accusations about Ben or is it more likely that Ben is a dirtbag?

As difficult as it is to admit, Ben is a dirtbag and doesn't deserve to be wearing a Steeler uniform.

steelerschik
04-16-2010, 02:45 PM
Apparently the GA cop who called the woman "a drunk bitch" when he talked to Ben and his entourage after she reported the assault, was to face disciplinary action. Interestingly enough, he resigned.
How much do you want to bet that the 2 cops from Pittsburgh will be interviewed by their superiors? Off-duty or on-duty doesn't matter when you're a cop, you know.

Yes, I know this. I see your location is Pittsburgh. I watch KDKA news all the time. I remember one of the attorneys for one of these cops was interviewed. Did you happen to see that? He stated his client and the other officer wanted to talk and be reinterviewed by the GBI, but they had not been contacted to do so. This attorney also apparently called the investigators in Georgia and said his client would like to talk and still nothing. I remember that attorney being kind of surprised they weren't taking anymore testimony from these guys. I haven't heard anything, other than what is being printed now from these girls accounts, about these 2 undercover cops playing a part in anything, but I'm pretty certain if the GBI had any reason to believe they should have been questioned by their superiors, based on what's being released to the public, you would think it would have been done so by now.

SteveS
04-16-2010, 02:45 PM
The talk show here locally in Columbus with Chris Spielman and Bruce Hooley, they are absolutely crucifying him and acting like it is a known fact that he is a proven rapist. What the hell is going on here?!?!?!

These people are not even being reasonable. I am absolutely flabbergasted at this outrage. I hope Ben throws the game winning TD in the Superbowl AGAIN just to spite these unreasonable idiots!

fansince'76
04-16-2010, 02:47 PM
Is it more likely that there are 3 girls (in totally separate incidents, none of whom stand to gain anything)....

Which one? The one who said nothing for a year after the alleged incident and conjures up fantasy boyfriends that "die" in Iraq, the one whose "friend of her brother" reported to police and apparently went back to Roethlisberger's house a second time after he stripped and "showed her the goods," or the one who was supposedly too drunk to remember anything and who has made conflicting statements? :noidea:

plenewken
04-16-2010, 02:47 PM
I hope Ben throws the game winning TD in the Superbowl AGAIN just to spite these unreasonable idiots!

Unless he plays for another team..............

FantasyMan
04-16-2010, 02:50 PM
Which one? The one who said nothing for a year after the alleged incident and conjures up fantasy boyfriends that "die" in Iraq, the one whose "friend of her brother" reported to police and apparently went back to Roethlisberger's house a second time after he stripped and "showed her the goods," or the one who was supposedly too drunk to remember anything and who has made conflicting statements? :noidea:

All three of them. None of them have anything to gain and yet their accusations have come to light. Why don't other athletes have claims against them? Do they not party it up and have drunken sex with chicks? Or is Big Ben the only athlete to have the misfortune of finding the only crazy lying chicks out there?

It doesn't matter if we'd like our quarterback to be a scumbag, it's a matter of using common sense and connecting the dots.

fansince'76
04-16-2010, 02:53 PM
All three of them. None of them have anything to gain and yet their accusations have come to light. Why don't other athletes have claims against them? Do they not party it up and have drunken sex with chicks? Or is Big Ben the only athlete to have the misfortune of finding the only crazy lying chicks out there?

It doesn't matter if we'd like our quarterback to be a scumbag, it's a matter of using common sense and connecting the dots.

Is that why McNulty sued for hundreds of thousands? Is that why the latest one lawyered up as soon as the news broke when there was no real apparent need (other than to pursue civil litigation) to do so? Because they have absolutely nothing to gain? Common sense is also realizing that this country is the land of the lawsuit.

Sansi
04-16-2010, 02:56 PM
Is that why McNulty sued for hundreds of thousands? Is that why the latest one lawyered up as soon as the news broke when there was no real apparent need (other than to pursue civil litigation) to do so? Because they have absolutely nothing to gain? Common sense is also realizing that this country is the land of the lawsuit.

So... hiring lawyers is a pretty big indicator that someone is being deceptive? Hmm

FantasyMan
04-16-2010, 02:57 PM
Is that why McNulty sued for hundreds of thousands? Is that why the latest one lawyered up as soon as the news broke when there was no real apparent need (other than to pursue civil litigation) to do so? Because they have absolutely nothing to gain? Common sense is also realizing that this country is the land of the lawsuit.

I discount McNulty as a gold digger, or else I would have said four women.


OJ didn't murder anyone.
Michael Jackson didn't molest boys.
Big Ben didn't sexually assault 3 young girls.

That is what the legal system tells us. Anyone with half a brain knows otherwise.

fansince'76
04-16-2010, 02:58 PM
So... hiring lawyers is a pretty big indicator that someone is being deceptive? Hmm

No, it's a pretty big indicator that someone will file a civil suit though. Why else would the accuser retain a lawyer? She's the one making the allegations.

fansince'76
04-16-2010, 03:00 PM
I discount McNulty as a gold digger, or else I would have said four women.


OJ didn't murder anyone.
Michael Jackson didn't molest boys.
Big Ben didn't sexually assault 3 young girls.

That is what the legal system tells us. Anyone with half a brain knows otherwise.

And anyone with half a brain knows the first two were actually charged.

Sansi
04-16-2010, 03:01 PM
No, it's a pretty big indicator that someone will file a civil suit though. Why else would the accuser retain a lawyer? She's the one making the allegations.

It is common and recommended. She was probably informed that Ben filed a counter-suit against McNulty and it would not be out of character to do so again. You'd want a lawyer on hand to deal with that.

fansince'76
04-16-2010, 03:04 PM
It is common and recommended. She was probably informed that Ben filed a counter-suit against McNulty and it would not be out of character to do so again. You'd want a lawyer on hand to deal with that.

Exactly. How can Ben countersue unless she sues?

plenewken
04-16-2010, 03:06 PM
It is common and recommended. She was probably informed that Ben filed a counter-suit against McNulty and it would not be out of character to do so again. You'd want a lawyer on hand to deal with that.

So what would prevent Ben from going after her in a civil court, the same way he goes after McNulty? His reputation being shot, why doesn't he try to restore it through a winning lawsuit against her, if he's indeed completely innocent?

FantasyMan
04-16-2010, 03:07 PM
And anyone with half a brain knows the first two were actually charged.

You have no idea how difficult rape is to actually prove, do you? Let alone when every witness was drinking, the first cop on the scene had to resign for improper conduct and the surviellience tape was convieniently erased.

Other than blindly wishing that this didn't happen, I see no way anyone can defend what this guy has done (and, apparently, has been doing for quite some time).

It's no longer a question in my mind if he did it or not, it's a question of how many times he has done something like this.

SteveS
04-16-2010, 03:08 PM
The title of this thread should be "biased witness documents revealed".

fansince'76
04-16-2010, 03:11 PM
So what would prevent Ben from going after her in a civil court, the same way he goes after McNulty? His reputation being shot, why doesn't he try to restore it through a winning lawsuit against her, if he's indeed completely innocent?

Nothing, but again, why would she retain a lawyer so early in the process? Namely, at the beginning of the criminal investigation? Seems to me any civil case(s) would come after the possible criminal proceedings. I realize you're disappointed he didn't get charged and all, but it seems to me one would follow another.

NJarhead
04-16-2010, 03:11 PM
You have no idea how difficult rape is to actually prove, do you? Let alone when every witness was drinking, the first cop on the scene had to resign for improper conduct and the surviellience tape was convieniently erased.

Other than blindly wishing that this didn't happen, I see no way anyone can defend what this guy has done (and, apparently, has been doing for quite some time).

It's no longer a question in my mind if he did it or not, it's a question of how many times he has done something like this.


DNA makes it quite easy to prove. Why was there none? She didn't even know if they actually had sex. Her words on that night.

Ben may be shady, but he's still innocent until proven guilty. They investigated it and decided there was not enough evidence to convict. IT NEVER EVEN MADE IT TO COURT. But, since there are unanswered questions, let's keep assuming.

:coffee:

FantasyMan
04-16-2010, 03:12 PM
The title of this thread should be "biased witness documents revealed".

or:

"Victims Trashed by the Blind - The reason why so many women don't report rape"

NJarhead
04-16-2010, 03:13 PM
or:

"Victims Trashed by the Blind - The reason why so many women don't report rape"

More accurately: "HALF the story. You make up the rest."

:rolleyes:

Sansi
04-16-2010, 03:13 PM
Exactly. How can Ben countersue unless she sues?

Ok replace the term counter-suit with sued for defamation of character. Or perhaps understand that lawyers are often hired to act as a liason between the accuser and law enforcement and a buffer between themselves and a hungry media/fan base. If I make a criminal accusation against someone with the ability to throw millions of dollars behind their defense and the wide-ranging ability to impress upon my personal life, I am going to hire a lawyer myself.

fansince'76
04-16-2010, 03:13 PM
You have no idea how difficult rape is to actually prove, do you? Let alone when every witness was drinking, the first cop on the scene had to resign for improper conduct and the surviellience tape was convieniently erased.

Other than blindly wishing that this didn't happen, I see no way anyone can defend what this guy has done (and, apparently, has been doing for quite some time).

It's no longer a question in my mind if he did it or not, it's a question of how many times he has done something like this.

I don't defend what the guy has done. He's a boorish idiot with zero respect for women. That doesn't make him a criminal. I just don't think there's enough here to prosecute. Neither did the DA, apparently. I'll reserve my right to think what I want to think and you do the same.

Curtain_of_Steel
04-16-2010, 03:14 PM
If the DA basically stated everything we found has no basis for prosecution, why is everyone so excited about what is in the documents?
Obviously with all the forceful words the supposed witness's used, it wasnt nearly enough for the DA to do anything about it. therefore what Goodel reads in it, has to hold zero weight.
Now you have friends of the girl wanting their 5 minutes of fame and reporters thinking they have some big scoop.
Its apparent based on no charges the DA didn't believe any of them. Does that count for anything?

This is a joke at this point.

FantasyMan
04-16-2010, 03:15 PM
DNA makes it quite easy to prove. Why was there none? She didn't even know if they actually had sex. Her words on that night.

Ben may be shady, but he's still innocent until proven guilty. They investigated it and decided there was not enough evidence to convict. IT NEVER EVEN MADE IT TO COURT. But, since there are unanswered questions, let's keep assuming.

:coffee:

So... why didn't Ben submit his DNA? It would have proved his innocence, right?..

:rolleyes:

Sansi
04-16-2010, 03:18 PM
So... why didn't Ben submit his DNA? It would have proved his innocence, right?..

:rolleyes:

Nah any good lawyer will not let you volunteer ANYTHING for ANY reason regardless of how obviously innocent or guilty you are. You simply do not offer anything to law enforcement when being investigated, even if 100% clean. It's common sense.

FantasyMan
04-16-2010, 03:19 PM
If the DA basically stated everything we found has no basis for prosecution


That's not what the DA said. The DA said that he didn't believe he could win the case (impared witnesses on both sides, evidence erased, cop in trouble, etc) in a court of law and the girl requested that he didn't proceed.

He made damn sure that everyone who watched that press conference knew that he thought Ben was guilty as sin.

plenewken
04-16-2010, 03:20 PM
Nothing, but again, why would she retain a lawyer so early in the process? Namely, at the beginning of the criminal investigation? Seems to me any civil case(s) would come after the possible criminal proceedings. I realize you're disappointed he didn't get charged and all, but it seems to me one would follow another.

I'm not disappointed that Ben's not charged cause honestly, I could give 2 sh*ts about Ben as a person. As a Steelers fan, I place the team way before any individual player, Ben included. My life doesn't revolve around the Steelers, much less around Ben Roethlisberger.

Going back to my point, If nothing prevents Ben from doing it, he should sue her. He's been so adamant that he did nothing wrong, he must have all the elements in hand to convince a civil jury of his total innocence and win a public apology plus reparations to be paid to the charity of his choice. Another side benefit is that it would deter other potential gold-diggers.

fansince'76
04-16-2010, 03:21 PM
Ok replace the term counter-suit with sued for defamation of character. Or perhaps understand that lawyers are often hired to act as a liason between the accuser and law enforcement and a buffer between themselves and a hungry media/fan base. If I make a criminal accusation against someone with the ability to throw millions of dollars behind their defense and the wide-ranging ability to impress upon my personal life, I am going to hire a lawyer myself.

A "buffer?" From what? Does anyone even know this girl's name yet?

SteelCityMom
04-16-2010, 03:23 PM
Or you could jump to this conclusion:

"From the sticks she lured in Ben. She was able to manipulate him into buying drinks for underage girls. She was able to pre-arrange that he would have neandethals "guarding him" keeping men and boys at bay while allowing her access. She manipulated them into isolating her from apparent support groups apparently trapping her alone with him when that was her plan all along, concieved so long ago up in her dorm room. Then she sprung her trap. Diabolical."





Now start using common sense. Is it more likely that there are 3 girls (in totally separate incidents, none of whom stand to gain anything) who are totally making up accusations about Ben or is it more likely that Ben is a dirtbag?

As difficult as it is to admit, Ben is a dirtbag and doesn't deserve to be wearing a Steeler uniform.

Sorry hon, I don't jump to conclusions...in anybody's favor. I know you want to paint me into this corner where I'm so positive that Ben has never done anything wrong...but you would be sadly mistaken in that quest.

A very interesting story you present there, and it, like the females story, cannot be proven to be true. I'm sorry if you don't like the way the legal system in this country works, but it's just a fact of life that you need to present irrefutable evidence to convict someone of a crime. Until that can be done, I feel I am in no position to judge a person on their strengths or weakness of morals. I'll leave that up to folks like you.

BTW...there aren't 3 women who are formally accusing Ben of anything, there are 2. One of which is seeking nothing but money, a lot of money. IMO that is something to gain.

Sansi
04-16-2010, 03:23 PM
A "buffer?" From what? Does anyone even know this girl's name yet?

Yes, but not many. Hence the lawyer. This is simple stuff. Involved in perhaps the biggest legal proceeding in the country? Lawyer up to protect yourself. Her myspace was posted on this very forum not long after the accusation was made.

NJarhead
04-16-2010, 03:24 PM
So... why didn't Ben submit his DNA? It would have proved his innocence, right?..

:rolleyes:

I wouldn't submit my DNA unless I was ordered to. If you're in the middle of an investigation as serious as this, you don't want that crap out there to be mis-handled unless it becomes absolutely necessary. And I'd imagine that his lawyers would closely monitor how it was handled.

He was never ordered to do so.....was he. :rolleyes:

You one of those conspiracy theorists?

Sansi
04-16-2010, 03:25 PM
Until that can be done, I feel I am in no position to judge a person on their strengths or weakness of morals. I'll leave that up to folks like you.

And people like those horrible pre-judging jerks the Rooneys!

SteelCityMom
04-16-2010, 03:30 PM
And people like those horrible pre-judging jerks the Rooneys!

They are in a different position than you or I are in the matter. They are Ben's bosses...and who knows what kind of conversations took place between the two after the first allegation.

I may not agree with it if the Rooney's decide to suspend him, but again...it's their business, it's their decision. They have more of a right to make that judgement call than I do.

fansince'76
04-16-2010, 03:32 PM
Yes, but not many. Hence the lawyer. This is simple stuff. Involved in perhaps the biggest legal proceeding in the country? Lawyer up to protect yourself. Her myspace was posted on this very forum not long after the accusation was made.

You can drop the condescension anytime. Once again, protect herself from what? If it's physical threats by rabid Steelers homers you're getting at, I fear a lawyer isn't going to do her much good in that department. Seems to me that would require police protection.

Sansi
04-16-2010, 03:33 PM
They are in a different position than you or I are in the matter. They are Ben's bosses...and who knows what kind of conversations took place between the two after the first allegation.

I may not agree with it if the Rooney's decide to suspend him, but again...it's their business, it's their decision. They have more of a right to make that judgement call than I do.

But it's a moral judgment? What makes THEM better? If it is not morally abhorrent then why suspend?

steelreserve
04-16-2010, 03:35 PM
If the DA basically stated everything we found has no basis for prosecution, why is everyone so excited about what is in the documents?

Uhh ... because even if you don't pass the threshold for going to jail, there's a whole galaxy of ways that you can fall just short of that and still be anywhere from a mild jerk to a total creep. People are interested to know exactly where he falls in that array, and he really has not done himself any favors in that respect.

I mean, this is not like an on/off switch, where the only two outcomes are that he's guilty and goes to prison, or he's as upstanding and respectable as the pope. Insisting that it should be viewed that way is not terribly persuasive; people are going to draw their own conclusions and resent that you think they're too dense to see beyond black and white.

fansince'76
04-16-2010, 03:35 PM
But it's a moral judgment? What makes THEM better? If it is not morally abhorrent then why suspend?

The media circus this has created has brought embarrassment by extension to the team. That's not good for business.

NJarhead
04-16-2010, 03:37 PM
The media circus this has created has brought embarrassment by extension to the team. That's not good for business.


Why does no one else understand that? :doh:

Sansi
04-16-2010, 03:38 PM
You can drop the condescension anytime. Once again, protect herself from what? If it's physical threats by rabid Steelers homers you're getting at, I fear a lawyer isn't going to do her much good in that department. Seems to me that would require police protection.

Who will issue legal warnings on her behalf should, say, a news station choose to release her name? It's difficult to not sound condescending when you're being asked to provide the reason people hire lawyers in matters involving the law.

SteelCityMom
04-16-2010, 03:38 PM
But it's a moral judgment? What makes THEM better? If it is not morally abhorrent then why suspend?

Again, it's their business, if they feel it's the right decision to make, I'm ok with that.

I once had a boss who fired a girl because she swore too many times. Swearing isn't illegal, but he wasn't comfortable with having a waitress cussing loudly in the kitchen area, to the point where customers could hear it. She had been talked to about it before, and continued to do it...so she got canned. Bosses don't always have to have a legal reason to fire or reprimand someone. It's their business, it's their image. Not mine.

Sansi
04-16-2010, 03:45 PM
Why does no one else understand that? :doh:

I understand perfectly. Note that they were very clear to say McNulty had nothing to do with this. That is clearly a case of a mentally unstable woman looking to make money off of him. That brought about a media storm also. They obviously see something disgusting at the root of this.

McNulty was not a personal embarrassment to the organization in that it was quite clear Ben was being strung up. This is a whole different kettle of fish.

Indo
04-16-2010, 03:46 PM
Ben's actions are in direct violation of the NFL Conduct Policy

Here is the memo that Goodell put out:

"The Policy makes clear that NFL and club personnel must do more than simply avoid criminal behavior. We must conduct ourselves in a way that 'is responsible, that promotes the values upon which the league is based, and is lawful.' This standard reflects the recognition that the conduct and behavior of our players and other league and team employees is critically important. Whether it involves your team or another, these incidents affect us all -- every investigation, arrest, or other allegation of improper conduct undermines the respect for our league by our fans, lessens the confidence of our business partners]and threatens the continued success of our brand.
"As your club begins its offseason programs and approaches the Draft, I encourage you to be vigilant in reinforcing this message with your players and staff. It makes no difference whether an incident occurs during the season or in the off-season. At every opportunity, you should remind them of your standards and the public’s expectations, of the need to use good judgment, particularly when in a public place, and of the resources available to help us all in meeting these standards."

Ben signed a contract saying that he would adhere to the NFL Conduct Policy--- and he didn't. He will receive some disciplinary action for his poor judgement. I'm guessing 2-4 game suspension. The Rooneys (in conjunction with the League) would do well to initiate the suspension as they will be sending the message that no one player (or Franchise) is above League rules. This will also make a better impression on the media and fans across the coutnry that the currently tainted Steelers are trying to get back to the Old Steelers Way of Most Respectable Organization in all of sports

Sansi
04-16-2010, 03:47 PM
Again, it's their business, if they feel it's the right decision to make, I'm ok with that.

I once had a boss who fired a girl because she swore too many times. Swearing isn't illegal, but he wasn't comfortable with having a waitress cussing loudly in the kitchen area, to the point where customers could hear it. She had been talked to about it before, and continued to do it...so she got canned. Bosses don't always have to have a legal reason to fire or reprimand someone. It's their business, it's their image. Not mine.

The implication was that no one should be making moral decisions about this case. Obviously, they have to, and their decision speaks volumes.

NJarhead
04-16-2010, 03:49 PM
I understand perfectly. Note that they were very clear to say McNulty had nothing to do with this. That is clearly a case of a mentally unstable woman looking to make money off of him. That brought about a media storm also. They obviously see something disgusting at the root of this.

McNulty was not a personal embarrassment to the organization in that it was quite clear Ben was being strung up. This is a whole different kettle of fish.

I think most of us can discount that case as a stand alone. However, innocent or not, it's still another incident added to the list. A list that no other QB in the NFL at present has. At least none that I can think of.

SteelCityMom
04-16-2010, 03:51 PM
The implication was that no one should be making moral decisions about this case. Obviously, they have to, and their decision speaks volumes.

Well, yes, the Rooney's do. My statement was directed at anybody who is not Ben's boss. I didn't think I would need to clarify that.

stlrtruck
04-16-2010, 03:52 PM
I believe we all should have known that eventually the documents would be released and more "details" of events would be exposed to the media and the witch hunt would continue for Ben's head (no pun intended).

The night will continue to played out in the media until people stop paying attention to it. People will begrudge Ben from this point forward (at least some that didn't begrudge him from the beginning). Others will see it as a moment of stoopidity, immaturity, or what have you and will let it go under the bridge (for now) and see if he can redeem himself on the field.

As I've mentioned, I'm not happy about Ben's actions. I'm definitely not happy for the negative light it brings on the Steelers Organization, especially as a fan who has enjoyed the high standard the organization has attempted to maintain. However, it is Ben's personal life, and it's not for me to judge him (Lord knows I've got plenty of my own issues to reconcile and seek forgiveness). We will all know soon enough if Ben was sincere in his apology to the league, team, and fans. If he's not and his actions prove it, then he'll be gone soon enough. If he is, and he rights his own PR problem, the question is what will the fans who wanted to crucify Ben act like if he was sincere? Will they still hate him? What if he becomes a SB MVP? What if he leads this team to another 3 or 4 SBs?

Sansi
04-16-2010, 03:55 PM
Well, yes, the Rooney's do. My statement was directed at anybody who is not Ben's boss. I didn't think I would need to clarify that.

And my point is that they see and read the same things we see and read. I do not see why it is so beyond the pall to make a moral judgment based on what any of us read.

steelerschik
04-16-2010, 04:00 PM
I believe we all should have known that eventually the documents would be released and more "details" of events would be exposed to the media and the witch hunt would continue for Ben's head (no pun intended).

The night will continue to played out in the media until people stop paying attention to it. People will begrudge Ben from this point forward (at least some that didn't begrudge him from the beginning). Others will see it as a moment of stoopidity, immaturity, or what have you and will let it go under the bridge (for now) and see if he can redeem himself on the field.

As I've mentioned, I'm not happy about Ben's actions. I'm definitely not happy for the negative light it brings on the Steelers Organization, especially as a fan who has enjoyed the high standard the organization has attempted to maintain. However, it is Ben's personal life, and it's not for me to judge him (Lord knows I've got plenty of my own issues to reconcile and seek forgiveness). We will all know soon enough if Ben was sincere in his apology to the league, team, and fans. If he's not and his actions prove it, then he'll be gone soon enough. If he is, and he rights his own PR problem, the question is what will the fans who wanted to crucify Ben act like if he was sincere? Will they still hate him? What if he becomes a SB MVP? What if he leads this team to another 3 or 4 SBs?

You literally sound like my echo, LOL! I've been saying this the same time. Everything...this is exactly how I feel too. One thing I do wonder about is how will Ben be perceived in visiting stadiums? I know he deserves anything he's got coming to him, but how bad do you think it will be? He's got no choice but to deal with it, but I have a feeling it's gonna be bad. And I also think Goodell's nightmare scenario were if the Steelers were to be in the SB. Wow, I can feel the hatred from the world if that should happen!

SteelCityMom
04-16-2010, 04:02 PM
And my point is that they see and read the same things we see and read. I do not see why it is so beyond the pall to make a moral judgment based on what any of us read.

Yes, but they are not spouting off and saying that they are 100% sure Ben is a scumbag and a serial rapist.

And yes, I understand that people are going to judge other regardless of what I think about it...I just don't without hard facts. And again, Rooney's are in a different boat...they are his bosses. Of course they are going to have to make some kind of decision regarding the matter.

plenewken
04-16-2010, 04:18 PM
Yes, but they are not spouting off and saying that they are 100% sure Ben is a scumbag and a serial rapist.

And yes, I understand that people are going to judge other regardless of what I think about it...I just don't without hard facts. And again, Rooney's are in a different boat...they are his bosses. Of course they are going to have to make some kind of decision regarding the matter.

I believe that deep inside, the great majority of Pittsburghers (hard working, family oriented people) dislike this 28yo multimillionaire creep who brings a dark cloud over the city and its football franchise.
The Rooneys have deep roots in the city as well and share the same values. Nothing surprising.

I believe it's gonna take a lot of time for people to forget about it, if this ever happens. Ben better bring his A+ game next season if he plays here.

vasteeler
04-16-2010, 04:28 PM
I believe that deep inside, the great majority of Pittsburghers (hard working, family oriented people) dislike this 28yo multimillionaire creep who brings a dark cloud over the city and its football franchise.
The Rooneys have deep roots in the city as well and share the same values. Nothing surprising.

I believe it's gonna take a lot of time for people to forget about it, if this ever happens. Ben better bring his A+ game next season if he plays here.

dark cloud :rofl:

you call two Lombardi's a dark cloud
again,hes done nothing a lot of us have not done.
you gonna tell me that not one of you dudes banged a drunk chick......come on:doh:

plenewken
04-16-2010, 04:43 PM
dark cloud :rofl:

you call two Lombardi's a dark cloud
again,hes done nothing a lot of us have not done.
you gonna tell me that not one of you dudes banged a drunk chick......come on:doh:

There are lots of positives with Ben but I'm talking about the negatives here. One side doesn't offset the other, sorry.
Anyway, if you want to be accurate and factual, you should agree that the Steelers won SB XL despite Ben not thanks to him.
You must have overlooked his QB rating that day. Worst ever in SB history. For the record, it was 22.6

And no I haven't banged a drunk chick in the bathroom of a club. And I don't feel I missed something.

SteveS
04-16-2010, 04:48 PM
Actually I don't think Ben has ever banged a drunk chick in a bar restroom either. The evidence quite strongly points to no sexual intercourse occuring. Likely he only felt her up or whatever you wanna call it.

stlrtruck
04-16-2010, 05:01 PM
You literally sound like my echo, LOL! I've been saying this the same time. Everything...this is exactly how I feel too. One thing I do wonder about is how will Ben be perceived in visiting stadiums? I know he deserves anything he's got coming to him, but how bad do you think it will be? He's got no choice but to deal with it, but I have a feeling it's gonna be bad. And I also think Goodell's nightmare scenario were if the Steelers were to be in the SB. Wow, I can feel the hatred from the world if that should happen!

I've heard the comments in my head already. I just hope that when he gets in those visiting stadiums that he "clears the mechanism" and plays lights out and silences the crowd.

And it would be great for Goodell to see the Steelers win the SB. Can you imagine the face palm plant he'd be doing, especially if Ben receives MVP honors. :doh:

steelerschik
04-16-2010, 05:43 PM
I've heard the comments in my head already. I just hope that when he gets in those visiting stadiums that he "clears the mechanism" and plays lights out and silences the crowd.

And it would be great for Goodell to see the Steelers win the SB. Can you imagine the face palm plant he'd be doing, especially if Ben receives MVP honors. :doh:

LOL, MAJOR face palm, but one I would love to see happen.

I want to make note that earlier in this thread (I think it was this thread) I made reference to an attorney for one of the off duty cops being confused as to why his client and the other officer didn't get called for another interview on KDKA when this all first happened. Just so happens that same attorney, Michael Santicola, was on again just a few minutes ago. Needless to say he is outraged by these reports and calls them totally and completely false, stating what these girls are insinuating, using force, dragging, pulling, blocking doors, are crimes. These things did not happen, did not take place and he is questioning why anyone would believe these outright false reports by underage, enubriated sorority sisters. He's also questioning why the DA would find it necessary after stating no charges would be pressed against Ben to go ahead and turn over all those questionable and untrue statements for the public to read. This is so far from being over. But seriously, it's time to turn the tables and if these statements are as false as this attorney is adamant they are, time for some legal intervention to be taken on Ben's ends of things. Again, it's so unreal to me how anyone can believe everything that's in print. This hasn't sounded right from the get go, but I guess to some if it's in black and white, it must be right.

Gnutella
04-16-2010, 05:53 PM
Makes my wonder how much derrogatory information Georgia virgin girl has in her background.

This.

"Intrusive personal experience" could mean, "There's enough dirt on me that my character could be assassinated just like his."

Indo
04-16-2010, 06:04 PM
Something else to ponder:

(I haven't read all gazillion pages of this thread, so bear with me)

In the documents it says that she stated to Ben, "I shouldn't be doing this".

Apparently she has a boyfriend also.

So if I'm Ben's attorney I'm ripping right in to this one little (HUGE) statement of hers. She never stated that she told Ben to stop. "No means no" right?

"I shouldn't be doing this" implies consent...it can be interpreted as "I WANT to do this, but I shouldn't be".
Why shouldn't she be doing it? Because she has a boyfriend? Or because she feels like it's just morally wrong to hook-up in a bar (somehow I doubt that--by all accounts, she was wearing a sexually explicit shirt and engaging in sexual conversation with Ben).

OR, she feels like , maybe?, she's being raped or sexually assaulted.

The whole thing just doesn't add up.

It appears that it was her friends who decided that she was raped, and they convinced her (quite a bit later) to bring up charges.

BTW, what's her deal? She gets invited into the VIP area and her friends don't, but SHE goes in anyway? Alone? Seems her personal conduct policy isn't too shrewd

Stone
04-16-2010, 06:22 PM
From Dale Lolley, Steelers beat writer for Observer-Reporter - his response to all the comments he's receiving regarding the DA case files that were posted in the Smoking Gun & various places:

The bottom line again is that Smoking Gun is simply using parts of the statement that are juicy. If you look at the whole thing, Ben gives a conflicting statement of what happened. In fact, the girl, herself, gives a conflicting statement.

Going simply by what's on Smoking Gun, you would think the DA would have had no problem convicting. Yet, he didn't even try.

I'm not saying Ben is completely innocent here. At the very least, he had sex with a very drunk girl.

He needs to grow up.

As far as his side of the story, read the whole report - the parts Smoking Gun didn't put in its site. It serves no purpose for him to discuss publicly what happened. But you can bet he's talked to the Steelers about his side of the story as well as Roger Goodell.


To me, the fact that the DA chose not to take it to court - despite even Steelers fans saying it looks like Ben is guilty - tells me there's something missing here. Again, I go back to the inconsistencies in the girl's statements.

The fact the sorority sisters were telling similar stories the next day tells me nothing other than that they got together and went over everything. How many times did you go drinking with your buddies and have completely different recollections of what happened?

But you all got together later and everybody got on the same page.

Gnutella
04-16-2010, 06:22 PM
She gets invited into the VIP area and her friends don't, but SHE goes in anyway? Alone? Seems her personal conduct policy isn't too shrewd

The fake ID proved that much.

zulater
04-16-2010, 08:04 PM
So... why didn't Ben submit his DNA? It would have proved his innocence, right?..

:rolleyes:

Because none was ever requested. They've said they have no strange DNA that is indentifiable off the alleged victim ( funny how that can be after intercourse and all?) so Ben's DNA sample would neither clear him or convict him based on the evidence gathered.

MACH1
04-16-2010, 08:28 PM
So... why didn't Ben submit his DNA? It would have proved his innocence, right?..

Wrong...Ben doesn't have to prove a thing, it's HER story that needs proving. If it went to court then he would the one to have to prove it didn't happen.

stillers4me
04-16-2010, 08:47 PM
Wrong...Ben doesn't have to prove a thing, it's HER story that needs proving. If it went to court then he would the one to have to prove it didn't happen.

I'm thinking it's still her case to prove. That's why the DA didn't press charges because based on the evidence, there was no way to get a conviction. The state has to prove their case beyond a reasonable doubt. That's how OJ got off......the state screwed it up. The jury knew he was guilty, but based on the evidence presented, there was reasonable doubt.

SteveS
04-16-2010, 08:53 PM
I'm thinking it's still her case to prove. That's why the DA didn't press charges because based on the evidence, there was no way to get a conviction. The state has to prove their case beyond a reasonable doubt. That's how OJ got off......the state screwed it up. The jury knew he was guilty, but based on the evidence presented, there was reasonable doubt.

NO, EVERYONE knew OJ was guilty. That trial was the biggest fruadulant case in the history of mankind. Tons of African Americans WANTED him to be found not guilty because of the color of his skin and half of the jury was black if I remember correctly. Its pretty evident that not everyone is convinced that Ben raped the girl that night last month.

spyboots
04-16-2010, 08:55 PM
The DA didn't have evidence to prosecute so has decided to lead the public media lynch mobbing, especially since he painted Ben in such a negative light. That's why the big deal of the press conference and so much info being given out during it.

There is no DNA because the girl changed her mind about giving him a birthday present (or Ben decided she was too drunk and "shouldn't be back here," so he stopped. Remember, he'd said that there was sexual contact but it wasn't consummated.

HometownGal
04-16-2010, 09:01 PM
I'm thinking it's still her case to prove. That's why the DA didn't press charges because based on the evidence, there was no way to get a conviction. The state has to prove their case beyond a reasonable doubt. That's how OJ got off......the state screwed it up. The jury knew he was guilty, but based on the evidence presented, there was reasonable doubt.

You are spot on stillers. The burden of proof is on the Plaintiff/DA.

zulater
04-16-2010, 09:02 PM
I'm starting to wonder if Ben wouldn't have been better off if charges had been levied? At least then witness statements wouldn't be taken as Gospel, chapter and verse, and would be forced to pass the mustard of cross examination.

Several times I've seen people ask the question would you want your daughter to be exposed to a rampaging Ben. If I had a daughter the answer would be no.

But I'll tell you something else I would do if i had a daughter. If I knew that she had been sexually assualted I would use every ounce of persuasion I have to see to it that she did all she could to see to it that her attacker was prosecuted to the fullest even if the road was going to be strewn with ruts. If the prosecutor tried to talk her out of it I'd talk her back into it. I would tell her that she would never have a sense of closure if she didn't do everything in her power to see to it that such a predator was locked away.

That's what i would do Charlie Brown.

zulater
04-16-2010, 09:07 PM
The DA didn't have evidence to prosecute so has decided to lead the public media lynch mobbing, especially since he painted Ben in such a negative light. That's why the big deal of the press conference and so much info being given out during it.

There is no DNA because the girl changed her mind about giving him a birthday present (or Ben decided she was too drunk and "shouldn't be back here," so he stopped. Remember, he'd said that there was sexual contact but it wasn't consummated.

It was Grandstanding at it's worst.

SteveS
04-16-2010, 09:12 PM
Some stuff from Ben's people that help his case:


At the same time, one person in Mr. Roethlisberger's entourage, Mr. Colon, told police that the accuser repeatedly tried to get the quarterback's attention at a bar earlier in the evening, pinched Mr. Roethlisberger and, along with others in her party, wore a sexually suggestive nametag.


Mr. Colon said the woman asked him if he knew what her "DTF" nametag meant. She said it was a crude acronym for wanting to have sex.


Authorities have already said the woman was drunk -- so much so that an initial police report noted: "It is unclear to what happened after this point due to the complainant's recollection being foggy from her intoxication level."

The officer who wrote that report, Milledgeville police Sgt. Jerry Blash, is under investigation for comments allegedly made to one of Mr. Roethlisberger's friends at Capital City.

"Hey, I need to talk to you guys," Sgt. Blash reportedly told Officer Barravecchio, the off-duty Coraopolis officer.

"We have a problem. This drunken bitch, drunk off her ass, is accusing Ben of rape," Officer Barravecchio said Sgt. Blash told him. "This pisses me off. Women can do this. It's[bull] but we've got to do this, we've got to do a report. This is BS. She's making [stuff] up."


"The girls approached Roethlisberger and asked to take photographs with him, and Roethlisberger accommodated their requests." The women said they were wearing their provocative nametags, which they had received at a birthday party, because "they thought it was funny."

In the second of her two written statements, the accuser said she and her friends "left him alone."

Mr. Roethlisberger's group crossed the street to another bar, The Brick. Mr. Colon said the women followed them, although the accuser wrote that "We went to The Brick, where they happened to be. We continued to have casual conversation. He even made crude, sexual remarks."

While at The Brick, Mr. Colon said, the woman "repeatedly attempted to get Roethlisberger's attention, which included pinching him." She wrote that he called her "a tease."


Officer Barravecchio said on Mr. Roethlisberger's instruction he showed a woman where the bathroom was but did not remain there. Instead, he went to the main bar to get Red Bulls for himself and Trooper Joyner.

Soon after, Sgt. Blash showed up at the club and said, "The way she says it happened, there is no way," Trooper Joyner said. He added that Sgt. Blash said the accuser had already changed her story several times.

Mr. Bright, the district attorney, said during his news conference that when the accuser first approached a police officer outside the nightclub immediately after the incident, "The police officer asked 'Did he rape you?' And her response was 'No.' Then he asked, 'Did you have sex?' And she said, 'Well, I'm not sure.' "

zulater
04-16-2010, 09:14 PM
But but but everything the accuser says is the truth, I know it because everyone on tv says it's so.

WH
04-16-2010, 09:23 PM
It was Grandstanding at it's worst.
yeah.

SteelersinCA
04-16-2010, 09:33 PM
I'm starting to wonder if Ben wouldn't have been better off if charges had been levied? At least then witness statements wouldn't be taken as Gospel, chapter and verse, and would be forced to pass the mustard of cross examination.

Several times I've seen people ask the question would you want your daughter to be exposed to a rampaging Ben. If I had a daughter the answer would be no.

But I'll tell you something else I would do if i had a daughter. If I knew that she had been sexually assualted I would use every ounce of persuasion I have to see to it that she did all she could to see to it that her attacker was prosecuted to the fullest even if the road was going to be strewn with ruts. If the prosecutor tried to talk her out of it I'd talk her back into it. I would tell her that she would never have a sense of closure if she didn't do everything in her power to see to it that such a predator was locked away.

That's what i would do Charlie Brown.

You're on to something there Zu, what people have to realize is that there is the court of law, which doesn't give 2 flying eff's about Ben Roethlisberger at this point, and the court of public opinion. The latter has ZERO burden of proof for conviction. Personally, I think what the DA said is conviction enough for #7. I don't think he's lying, he has no reason to. Additionally, if the GA bar is anything like the CA bar he would face serious ethical repercussions if he knowingly made false statements about the incident. Also, if it's false why isn't Ben's lawyer suing????

stillers4me
04-16-2010, 09:41 PM
You're on to something there Zu, what people have to realize is that there is the court of law, which doesn't give 2 flying eff's about Ben Roethlisberger at this point, and the court of public opinion. The latter has ZERO burden of proof for conviction. Personally, I think what the DA said is conviction enough for #7. I don't think he's lying, he has no reason to. Additionally, if the GA bar is anything like the CA bar he would face serious ethical repercussions if he knowingly made false statements about the incident. Also, if it's false why isn't Ben's lawyer suing????

The DA isn't being accused of lying. It's the public morality lecture he gave to Ben but not the accuser that was wrong.

SteelersinCA
04-16-2010, 09:47 PM
The DA isn't being accused of lying. It's the public morality lecture he gave to Ben but not the accuser that was wrong.

I don't think it's wrong, that's his job. Ben needs it from more than one person obviously.

zulater
04-16-2010, 09:51 PM
You're on to something there Zu, what people have to realize is that there is the court of law, which doesn't give 2 flying eff's about Ben Roethlisberger at this point, and the court of public opinion. The latter has ZERO burden of proof for conviction. Personally, I think what the DA said is conviction enough for #7. I don't think he's lying, he has no reason to. Additionally, if the GA bar is anything like the CA bar he would face serious ethical repercussions if he knowingly made false statements about the incident. Also, if it's false why isn't Ben's lawyer suing????

He insinuated things he claims he couldn't prove in a court of law. Sorry, but in my opinion it's unethical to tar a person guilty that you don't so much as bring up on charges .If he was that convinced of Ben's guilt go ahead charge him, it's his job to see to it that criminals pay for their misdeeds. What, I guess it always has to be easy? Scared you might scar your win percentage if you don't get lobbed an easy alley oop of a case?

This guy wanted his cake and to eat it too. Either at Ben's or the accuser's expense he made it his stage Monday. Cut it whichever way you like it but Bright is still a grandstanding a-hole.


:coffee:

stillers4me
04-16-2010, 09:57 PM
I don't think it's wrong, that's his job. Ben needs it from more than one person obviously.

No, that's not his job. His job was to decide whether to bring charges against Ben. He said he wasn't ,so then it was time to the eff off the podium.

Stone
04-16-2010, 11:26 PM
This is a bit long, but definitely worth a look (the spelling errors aside):

"The Media Lynching of Ben Roethlisberger"

http://ludwig.squarespace.com/politics-journal/2010/4/15/the-media-lynching-of-ben-roethlisberger.html

zulater
04-16-2010, 11:35 PM
This is a bit long, but definitely worth a look (the spelling errors aside):

"The Media Lynching of Ben Roethlisberger"

http://ludwig.squarespace.com/politics-journal/2010/4/15/the-media-lynching-of-ben-roethlisberger.html

Good stuff.

People want to ignore the fact the witness statements would have been easily torn apart on cross, thus the reason no arrest was made.

HometownGal
04-17-2010, 05:27 AM
He insinuated things he claims he couldn't prove in a court of law. Sorry, but in my opinion it's unethical to tar a person guilty that you don't so much as bring up on charges .If he was that convinced of Ben's guilt go ahead charge him, it's his job to see to it that criminals pay for their misdeeds. What, I guess it always has to be easy? Scared you might scar your win percentage if you don't get lobbed an easy alley oop of a case?

This guy wanted his cake and to eat it too. Either at Ben's or the accuser's expense he made it his stage Monday. Cut it whichever way you like it but Bright is still a grandstanding a-hole.


:coffee:

http://www.pinqradio.com/site/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/applause.gif

zulater
04-17-2010, 08:19 AM
Eric Kusselias is on ESPN radio this moring and he opened his show defending Ben. :thumbsup: