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SteelKnight
04-25-2010, 04:13 PM
Darn...too bad about Colt McCoy.

I sort of like the guy. He seems like a nice kid and I wanted to root for him to do well and show that size isn't everything. Now I can't and I have to root for his failure.

I was hoping the Browns would take Claussen. He doesn't seem personable and I wouldn't have minded rooting against him. lol

xXTheSteelKingsXx
04-25-2010, 04:19 PM
I'm glad Cleveland didn't take Clausen. I'm one of the few who (along with Kiper) thinks that Clausen is the best QB in this class. I'm no scout but the guys been playing in a pro style offense for three years. Thats had to do something for him. I guess time will tell.

SMR
04-25-2010, 04:22 PM
I'm glad Cleveland didn't take Clausen. I'm one of the few who (along with Kiper) thinks that Clausen is the best QB in this class. I'm no scout but the guys been playing in a pro style offense for three years. Thats had to do something for him. I guess time will tell.

I'm with you on that! Keep yer eyes on Clausen, personable or not!

silver & black
04-25-2010, 04:26 PM
I'm glad Cleveland didn't take Clausen. I'm one of the few who (along with Kiper) thinks that Clausen is the best QB in this class. I'm no scout but the guys been playing in a pro style offense for three years. Thats had to do something for him. I guess time will tell.

So did Brady Quinn... just sayin'. :wink02:

xXTheSteelKingsXx
04-25-2010, 04:26 PM
I'm with you on that! Keep yer eyes on Clausen, personable or not!

If anything thing, he will benifit from being in Carolina. A great o-line and running game are a rookie QB's best friend.

xXTheSteelKingsXx
04-25-2010, 04:29 PM
So did Brady Quinn... just sayin'. :wink02:

Touche. :chuckle:

SteelKnight
04-25-2010, 04:32 PM
If anything thing, he will benifit from being in Carolina. A great o-line and running game are a rookie QB's best friend.

Not to mention Steve Smith. It should be interesting.

Nadroj 20
04-25-2010, 04:45 PM
Colt McCoy was the all time winniest QB in college football history


and now he is a cleveland brown....


That is one BAD U turn :chuckle:

Third Rail
04-26-2010, 11:14 AM
Well, don't worry too much, at least not immediately. Holmgren said that he doesn't plan on starting McCoy this year. Because, you know, the Clowns are SO loaded with talent at QB... Jake "Has-Been" Delhomme, Seneca "Never-Was" Wallace and Brett "Who?" Ratliff.

revefsreleets
04-26-2010, 11:16 AM
Mangini RUINED Quinn. HE may be salvageable in Denver, but who knows how bad the damage was.

McCoy, if Holmgren gets to groom him instead of that titwad Mangina, could realy be a nice WCO QB at the next level. He's a good kid, smart, and has a lot of intangibles. If he's not actually asked to start for awhile, I think he'll be good.

xfl2001fan
04-26-2010, 11:41 AM
Mangini RUINED Quinn. HE may be salvageable in Denver, but who knows how bad the damage was.

McCoy, if Holmgren gets to groom him instead of that titwad Mangina, could realy be a nice WCO QB at the next level. He's a good kid, smart, and has a lot of intangibles. If he's not actually asked to start for awhile, I think he'll be good.

Mangini had Quinn for 1 year. That was it. Romeo Crennel had him longer...he did him no favors. Phil Savage did the kid no favors either (between his drafts and FAs). Unless you really think that any QB would have done well with Donte (I just killed a jaywalker) Stallworth and Braylon (I can't catch 90% of the passes thrown my way) Edwards as his Top 2 WR's.

revefsreleets
04-26-2010, 01:08 PM
Mangini had Quinn for 1 year. That was it. Romeo Crennel had him longer...he did him no favors. Phil Savage did the kid no favors either (between his drafts and FAs). Unless you really think that any QB would have done well with Donte (I just killed a jaywalker) Stallworth and Braylon (I can't catch 90% of the passes thrown my way) Edwards as his Top 2 WR's.

Mangini should have come in and said "Quinn is my starter. Period. He's a first round draft pick, he had a year to learn, and he's my starter".

And then he proceeded to play head games with both him and Anderson for most of the rest of the season.

RoethlisBURGHer
04-26-2010, 01:14 PM
Bradford is the most screwed of the four top quarterbacks. He's going to a team with no offensive line, no receivers, and no defense. He's already the best QB on the roster and will probably be the starter in the opener. If they don't get him some protection in front, he will be the next Tim Couch.

Tebow I am on the fence about. He's a good person, will work his butt off to become a traditional QB. I think if he can hone his new throwing motion and master playing under center (something he didn't do in college), his game will resemble Ben Roethlisberger's. He's big and strong enough to shake off tacklers and a good enough runner to turn nothing into something by scrambling.

McCoy is a perfect WCO quarterback. If that's what Cleveland is going to transition to, then they got themselves a good young QB. He may be the best of the bunch, but he got drafted by the Browns so there isn't much hope for him.

The best situation is Jimmy Clausen's. He was in a pro-style offense, so he has worked from under center and in the shotgun. The terminology in the Panthers offense is almost identical to Notre Dame's, so he isn't going to have to learn an all new offense. The Panthers have a good defense and the strongest running game in the NFL (IMHO). So he's not going to be asked to shoulder the load on offense. He will very possibly be the starter at the start of the season not because they need him to be, but because he wins the job in training camp.

RoethlisBURGHer
04-26-2010, 01:18 PM
Mangini should have come in and said "Quinn is my starter. Period. He's a first round draft pick, he had a year to learn, and he's my starter".

And then he proceeded to play head games with both him and Anderson for most of the rest of the season.

I agree. A QB controversy is never a good thing for a team to have. I can't think of the last time there was a legit QB competition and the team came out and had a successful season.

Training camp is about getting your team ready for the season. Sometimes there are going to be battles for roster spots. But one that should never have a battle is the quarterback position. When you spend all of TC juggling the two QB's around to make a decision, you're never going to come out on top and ready for the season.

revefsreleets
04-26-2010, 02:47 PM
Clausen is definitely in the best situation to start. Here's my take on Tebow (and I touched on this before with another poster). It's absolutely clear that Kyle Orton is not an NFL starter. He's like automatically out, even if he is still listed as #1 on the two-deep. The problem becomes, what if Quin is ruined? I personally think he can be a starting NFL QB, but the guy was psychologically raped by the idiot in Cleveland, maybe permanently.

If that's the case, McDaniels screwed himself by taking Tebow in the 1st when he could have been there late in the 2nd. NOW he's a 1st Round draft pick QB, and if the two guys ahead of him falter, he almost HAS to start Tebow. He's the least NFL-ready of any of the other guys were talking about. Even with a decent line and some weapons around him, he's going to be terribly exposed if he's handed the reigns.

xfl2001fan
04-26-2010, 02:51 PM
Mangini should have come in and said "Quinn is my starter. Period. He's a first round draft pick, he had a year to learn, and he's my starter".

And then he proceeded to play head games with both him and Anderson for most of the rest of the season.

Mangini was hardly the only HC the Browns had to do that. BQ didn't do much with his opportunities either. Maybe the reason he didn't play much (prior to the injury) was because he actually wasn't good enough.

1st round pick? He wasn't Mangini's 1st round pick...and he may not have been a 2nd rounder that year had Mangini been doing the picking. Moving back up into the 1st round to get him was about as dumb as could be.

The head games were about hoping one guy would actually take the reins. DA couldnt' do it. His issues (after the first half of the 2007 regular season) are very well recorded around here. If Brady couldn't beat that out, he deserved to not win the starting job. Now he's in Denver where there's a Tim Tebow (1st rounder) a Kyle Orton...he's basically screwed...but he was never going to be an NFL QB unless he learned to do more than check the ball down...and he had accuracy issues doing that. That's not Mangini's fault. That's BQ's for not manning up.

Third Rail
04-26-2010, 02:52 PM
I agree. A QB controversy is never a good thing for a team to have. I can't think of the last time there was a legit QB competition and the team came out and had a successful season.

Training camp is about getting your team ready for the season. Sometimes there are going to be battles for roster spots. But one that should never have a battle is the quarterback position. When you spend all of TC juggling the two QB's around to make a decision, you're never going to come out on top and ready for the season.

Well, you might be able to argue that Arizona did, back when they were going back and forth between Warner and Leinart. And that worked out pretty well when they finally decided to just stick with Warner. But I'm not sure that Leinart really has what it takes. Still... at this point... I'd probably rank him (a little) higher than Brady Quinn.

revefsreleets
04-26-2010, 02:56 PM
Browns apologists apology for his teams repeated idiotic moves duly noted.

xfl2001fan
04-26-2010, 03:03 PM
Browns apologists apology for his teams repeated idiotic moves duly noted.

Apologist? I don't apologize for my team sucking. I didn't make them suck. I didn't mis-draft or mis-sign anyone. I'm not apologizing for anything, just pointing out that the Browns drafted a sub-par QB that you seem to think one coach ruined. Mangini (a guy I'm still not 100% sold on) is not the only coach to do what you claim. But you don't like that I'm pointing out the fallacy in your argument and so are trying to twist it around on me.

BQ sucking is no more Mangini's fault than Big Ben's rape allegations are Tomlins.

revefsreleets
04-26-2010, 03:07 PM
How do we know Quinn sucks? He didn't play, then Mangini worked his bad mojo on him and wrecked his confidence...

xfl2001fan
04-26-2010, 03:12 PM
How do we know Quinn sucks? He didn't play, then Mangini worked his bad mojo on him and wrecked his confidence...

Simple

Derek Anderson Sucks

Brady Quinn couldn't beat him out as the full time legit starter

Derek Anderson was as good (or better) than Brady Quinn.

Brady Quinn Sucks


Now, both quarterbacks are gone. I love how you throw it all on Mangini. Again, Brady Quinn played the same "game" two seasons ago as he did last season. Two seasons ago, Mangini was coaching Favre (well as much as anyone can coach an egotistical gun-slinger).

This isn't just Mangini. I'm not saying that Mangini helped in anyway...but BQ didn't beat out DA two years ago...he didn't beat him last year...and he won't beat Kyle Orton out this year. Because Brady Quinn sucks.

RoethlisBURGHer
04-26-2010, 03:14 PM
Well, you might be able to argue that Arizona did, back when they were going back and forth between Warner and Leinart. And that worked out pretty well when they finally decided to just stick with Warner. But I'm not sure that Leinart really has what it takes. Still... at this point... I'd probably rank him (a little) higher than Brady Quinn.

That wasn't really a QB controversy. Whisenhut's first year, he tried to hand the job to Leinart. Leinart was the first round pick and supposed to be the future of the Cardinals. Whiz knew this and tried to make it happen. Leinart didn't perform, and he letft Whiz with little choice but to yank him for Warner. For the rest of Warner's time in Arizona, he was the unquestioned starting QB of the team.

AllD
04-26-2010, 04:10 PM
The Rams actually have $100million invested in the OL. They drafted Bradford as the best QB available in a weak class. Expect him to start before the end of the season or label him a bust.

You may find one of the others as a future starter, but this was hardly 1983 or 2004.

Third Rail
04-26-2010, 04:31 PM
That wasn't really a QB controversy. Whisenhut's first year, he tried to hand the job to Leinart. Leinart was the first round pick and supposed to be the future of the Cardinals. Whiz knew this and tried to make it happen. Leinart didn't perform, and he letft Whiz with little choice but to yank him for Warner. For the rest of Warner's time in Arizona, he was the unquestioned starting QB of the team.

Yeah, but if I remember correctly, there were still supporters of Leinart even after he was yanked... until Warner found his rhythm and started annihilating defenses like he did in his St. Louis days and then all of Arizona was behind him.

RoethlisBURGHer
04-26-2010, 04:57 PM
Yeah, but if I remember correctly, there were still supporters of Leinart even after he was yanked... until Warner found his rhythm and started annihilating defenses like he did in his St. Louis days and then all of Arizona was behind him.

There were always people in support of Leinart. But the support of the fans don't make something a QB controversy. A QB controversy is a head coach not knowing who to start, so he puts two or three quarterbacks into a competition in the hopes that one shows that he is better than the other(s) and takes the job.

AllD
04-26-2010, 05:37 PM
If you have two starting QBs aka, the Clowns, you actually have zero. A good coach can make a decision.

xfl2001fan
04-26-2010, 05:56 PM
If you have two starting QBs aka, the Clowns, you actually have zero. A good coach can make a decision.

And if you have 0 QB's worthy of starting in the NFL (aka the Browns) you actually have zero. Any coach can come to the same conclusion...some coaches inherited a well built team (aka Tomlin)...others have taken over a project (Policy, Davis, Crennel, and Mangini...maybe Mangini and company will get it right.)

MasterOfPuppets
04-26-2010, 07:30 PM
brady quinn sucks
colt mckoy is kyle orton V2.0

xfl2001fan
04-27-2010, 06:38 AM
brady quinn sucks
colt mckoy is kyle orton V2.0

Kyle Orton = 30-19 record as starter.

Last seasons - 21 TD, 12 INT, 62.1% Comp, 86.8 QB Rating.

Considering what we've worked with up to this point...I'd be more than happy to take that on.

stillers4me
04-27-2010, 06:49 AM
Colt McCoy did not look happy to get the call from the Browns. :chuckle:

revefsreleets
04-27-2010, 09:19 AM
This is all revisionist history. You simply can't look back on the relative failure of Quinn and NOT lay at least some of the blame at the blatant and repeated mishandling of him at the hands of the Browns. At least not least not if you're being intellectually honest with yourself. The horrible mind-games, the continual (and seemingly perpetually endless) "open competition", the threats of being pulled. It's a psychological nightmare for a QB.

As for Crennel, he actually did a much better job, as he let him sit for a year. Year two he did a little less right and a little more wrong, but Mangini was just a tool about the whole deal.

Finally, Orton has the HUGE advantage of playing most of his career with teams with defenses and running games. His win/loss record is always cited when people try to prop him up because it occults his overall actual lack of playing ability and general sucktitude. I'll pretty much go an record right now as stating that Quinn will, barring injury, beat out Orton as the starting QB in Denver this year.

MasterOfPuppets
04-27-2010, 12:37 PM
Kyle Orton = 30-19 record as starter.

Last seasons - 21 TD, 12 INT, 62.1% Comp, 86.8 QB Rating.

Considering what we've worked with up to this point...I'd be more than happy to take that on.

kyle orton didn't play for eric mangini and the browns. :wink02:

beSteelmyheart
04-27-2010, 04:42 PM
Colt McCoy did not look happy to get the call from the Browns. :chuckle:
You noticed that, too?:sofunny: I didn't see much cheering or getting crazy like alot of the others did.

AllD
04-27-2010, 05:10 PM
You noticed that, too?:sofunny: I didn't see much cheering or getting crazy like alot of the others did.



McCoy had that look like the character in the movie, "Kelly's Heroe's" played by the gentleman who also plays Uncle Leo on Seinfeld.

The character in Kelly's Heroe's has been doing everything to catch up to Clint Eastwood's bunch in order to collect his share of the gold. He is finally making headway and then a general played by Carrol O'Conner shows up in a jeep with his enterage. The general asks Leo, "Where are you from soldier?" Leo answers with a dog face as he will never see the gold and like just got drafted by the Browns, "New Jersey, sir." :popcorn:

xfl2001fan
04-27-2010, 05:36 PM
This is all revisionist history. You simply can't look back on the relative failure of Quinn and NOT lay at least some of the blame at the blatant and repeated mishandling of him at the hands of the Browns. At least not least not if you're being intellectually honest with yourself. The horrible mind-games, the continual (and seemingly perpetually endless) "open competition", the threats of being pulled. It's a psychological nightmare for a QB.

As for Crennel, he actually did a much better job, as he let him sit for a year. Year two he did a little less right and a little more wrong, but Mangini was just a tool about the whole deal.

Finally, Orton has the HUGE advantage of playing most of his career with teams with defenses and running games. His win/loss record is always cited when people try to prop him up because it occults his overall actual lack of playing ability and general sucktitude. I'll pretty much go an record right now as stating that Quinn will, barring injury, beat out Orton as the starting QB in Denver this year.


Crennel "let him sit" because DA just had a "spectacular Pro Bowl" year. The difference between what you're saying now (lay blame at the hand of the Browns) and what you said previously (blaming Mangini solely) is backpedalling.

As for doing "a little less right and a little more wrong..." how is "I'll Flip A Coin" sound to you now? I know how retarded it was then...but lets use "revisionist" history here. Is that "less" than what Mangini was doing? Mangini flip flopped between the two...but he at least started to make a decision. (In this case, you can't go right between starting BQ and DA though...you just can't get that right.)

Orton may have always had defense/running game to help...but he still completed 62% of his passes last year and threw for nearly 4K yards. That's got to help some. Last year, though, he actually hurt his overall record with an 8-8 season.

Kyle Orton will still be next years starter...until such time that Tim Tebow learns to be an NFL quarterback. That'll take what...3-10 years? BQ will be a career clipboard holder.

revefsreleets
04-28-2010, 11:15 AM
The game is afoot! I say Quinn, you say Orton. We'll know in a few months.

Tebow will NEVER be ready to take the helm of an NFL team unless they outlaw the forward pass.

xfl2001fan
04-28-2010, 11:52 AM
The game is afoot! I say Quinn, you say Orton. We'll know in a few months.

Tebow will NEVER be ready to take the helm of an NFL team unless they outlaw the forward pass.

In this, we are 99.9% agreed. I won't say "NEVER" because there is a chance he could. The odds of me winning the lottery are greater...but it "could" happen.