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mesaSteeler
04-27-2010, 09:30 PM
Money Matters: The Woodley Dilemma
http://pit.scout.com/2/966042.html
By Ian Whetstone
SCI Resident Capologist
Posted Apr 27, 2010

Because of the new cap rules, the Steelers find themselves in a tricky situation in extending LaMarr Woodley's contract before he becomes a free agent in 2011.

PITTSBURGH -- In an offseason chock full of controversy, almost no one can dispute that LaMarr Woodley has earned a lucrative contract extension. He’s been a great fit in Pittsburgh’s defense, on and off the field, seemingly from the moment the Steelers selected him in the second round of the 2007 draft.

In any normal year, a new deal for the Pro Bowl linebacker would be a slam dunk as he prepares to enter the his final season under his rookie deal, and I have no doubt that both the player and the club would love to make one happen.

But the uncapped 2010 is anything but a normal year, and a new contract for Woodley faces a significant—and maybe insurmountable—obstacle in the form of the 30% Rule. Designed to prevent teams from giving out contracts in advance that stuff a disproportionate amount of compensation into a potentially uncapped year, it also has an awful side effect on players in Woodley’s contract position. The relevant portion of the rule, as defined in the collective bargaining agreement, is as follows:

“No NFL Player Contract entered into in a Capped Year and extending into the Final League Year or beyond may provide for an annual increase in Salary, excluding any amount attributable to a signing bonus ... of more than 30% of the Salary provided for in the Final Capped Year, per year, either in the Final League Year or in any subsequent League Year covered by the Player Contract.”

The short version of what this means now is that an extension for a player who has remained under contract from 2009 through 2010 can provide for an increase per year of only 30% of his 2009 non-signing bonus salary. Woodley made just $460,000 in 2009 as part of his rookie deal, the minimum salary for a third-year player. This currently limits his salary under a potential new deal to just $598,000 in 2010, $736,000 in 2011, $874,000 in 2012, and an additional $138,000 greater for every year thereafter.

On a new six-year deal, that means a maximum total salary of just $5,658,000. Obviously, that’s a paltry portion of what Woodley stands to command. At the position of 3-4 OLB, Jerry Jones gave super-stud DeMarcus Ware the gold standard contract last year: a six-year extension worth $78 million. A more reasonable comparison may be the six-year, $62.5 million deal that Terrell Suggs signed with Baltimore last year, or James Harrison’s five-year extension for $43,775,000 in new money.

The loophole in the 30% Rule is that signing bonuses do not count toward its calculations or limits. Essentially, teams can attach any amount of signing bonus to a contract and maintain compliance under the rule. But, it’s simply not feasible to offer a player such as Woodley the $50+ million signing bonus that it would take to make up the balance on a six-year deal.

I won’t rule out that somebody will devise a creative way around this dilemma, but I haven’t seen it happen yet. New Orleans worked around other 30% Rule limitations last year by creative use of something called a completion bonus. However, I know of no other teams that have used that particular device since, so I suspect that the league office put the unofficial kibosh on it after the Saints slipped their deals through. Also, the Steelers organization has a track record of almost dogmatic adherence to the spirit of the league’s accounting policies that goes beyond simple observance of the letter of the rules, so I’m skeptical that they’d be eager to play as fast and loose with unconventional structures as some other clubs might.

I could see the possibility of a team constructing a contract comparable to what they do for high first-round rookies, whose contracts are similarly constrained by the rookie salary pool and a 25% Rule that applies only to rookie deals. These deals typically feature a lot of their “base” value attached to performance thresholds that are deemed unlikely to be met by the CBA, but as a practical matter are very easy to achieve.

My guess is that this is what Cleveland did with Joshua Cribbs to work around the 30% Rule with his recent pay raise. But, it works with rookies largely because they have no body of work upon which to base the likelihood of achievement, and so the thresholds can be set quite low. Likewise, Cribbs has had limited statistical production of the relevant sort in his career, with a promise of greater offensive involvement yet to come upon which to base such compensation escalators. For a player like Woodley, coming off of a season of such strong achievement in every way that matters at his position, how do you construct that kind of a deal? If there’s a way, I don’t see it. Moreover, I can’t imagine that an agent would ever go for it.

It’s a relatively small number of players who are being impacted by this aspect of the uncapped year. With Santonio Holmes gone, Woodley is the only Steelers player for whom the rule presents any meaningful consequence, and is surely among the highest-profile players around the league to be so affected.

Surely nobody involved, from the front office to the player to the coaches to the fans, wants to see LaMarr Woodley wearing anything but black and gold next year or beyond. So, what are the options? I doubt very much that the expanded restricted free agency rules that apply in the uncapped 2010 will have any bearing on 2011. 2011 will either be controlled by some kind of new agreement—and I can’t envision the union agreeing to any deal that extends what has been the most poisonous of pills for their rank and file—or else there won’t be football in 2011, in which case restricted status will be irrelevant. So, counting on Woodley being restricted in 2011 is folly, to my mind.

I do think that it’s likely that the next agreement will maintain the availability of a franchise tag, although possibly in a form less pleasant for teams than currently exists. So, that will probably be an option. Another that I wouldn’t overlook is a short-term extension. It’s unreasonable to make up the dollars required on a long-term extension with a gigantic signing bonus, but something like a $9 million signing bonus on a one-year extension with low base salaries would not be outlandish. It would, in essence, be like a proactive franchise tag. It’d be far from an ideal scenario for any party involved, but under the circumstances, it might be better than any of the alternatives.

Steelerfreak58
04-27-2010, 09:37 PM
They will figure something out! They better! :tt03:

SteelKnight
04-27-2010, 10:07 PM
Woodley is good but he is replacable. The Steelers should offer him something that comes out to about 5 million per year and if he says no, let him walk. Worilds will be ready next year and Gibson will back him up.

We can't afford to be paying an OLB 10 million per year. That would make Troys and Timmons contracts unreasonable.

He should get a 5 year 25 million dollar contract and if he says no, bye.

We never have trouble replacing our LBs ...never.

Ike is way more important. Even Nnamdi As gave Ike some props today.

mesaSteeler
04-27-2010, 10:15 PM
Woodley is good but he is replacable. The Steelers should offer him something that come out to about 5 million per year and if he says no, let him walk. Worilds will be ready next year and Gibson will back him up.

We can't afford to be paying an OLB 10 million per year. That would make Troys and Timmons contracts unreasonable.

He should get a 5 year 25 million dollar contract and if he says no, bye.

We never have trouble replacing our LBs ...never.

Ike is way more important. Even Nnamdi As gave Ike some props today.

I agree. No one player is indispensable including who ever is playing QB. If we can sign him at the market value then well and good. If not then let him walk. A lot will depend on how well he plays this season. Remember Kendrell Bell?

Steeldude
04-27-2010, 10:24 PM
but he is replacable

yep :thumbsup:

BlastFurnace
04-27-2010, 10:41 PM
I do not think he is easily replaceable. He is a great pass rusher. They must find a way to get this done. Harrison won't go on forever and he is already 32. The OLB'ers drive our defense. We have no idea what we have in our new draft picks. We know what we have with Woodley.

Make it happen Colbert.

Godfather
04-27-2010, 10:51 PM
Thanks again Roger Baddell.

If we had a competent commisioner this issue would be resolved by now.

steelreserve
04-27-2010, 10:51 PM
I do not think he is easily replaceable. He is a great pass rusher.

Yeah, just like every other great pass rusher we've had wasn't easily replaceable. Why do you think we took so many linebackers? We're prepared.

I definitely would like to see him stick around for another deal, but if we're talking $10M a year, that's pretty preposterous and I'd wish him good luck on the Redskins. He's very good, but he is maybe the fifth-best player on our defense, which means we can't afford to pay him like he's the #1 star. He wants that money, he'll have to go to a shit team where he IS the #1 star.

7willBheaven
04-27-2010, 10:55 PM
Woodley is good but he is replacable. The Steelers should offer him something that comes out to about 5 million per year and if he says no, let him walk. Worilds will be ready next year and Gibson will back him up.

We can't afford to be paying an OLB 10 million per year. That would make Troys and Timmons contracts unreasonable.

He should get a 5 year 25 million dollar contract and if he says no, bye.

We never have trouble replacing our LBs ...never.

Ike is way more important. Even Nnamdi As gave Ike some props today.

You apparently didnt read or understand the article. With the CBA rules for the uncapped year, the contract extension rules changed...as it says in the article...

"The short version of what this means now is that an extension for a player who has remained under contract from 2009 through 2010 can provide for an increase per year of only 30% of his 2009 non-signing bonus salary. Woodley made just $460,000 in 2009 as part of his rookie deal, the minimum salary for a third-year player. This currently limits his salary under a potential new deal to just $598,000 in 2010, $736,000 in 2011, $874,000 in 2012, and an additional $138,000 greater for every year thereafter.

On a new six-year deal, that means a maximum total salary of just $5,658,000. "

So the MOST they can offer for base salary is....

2010 - 598,000 (just add 138,000 on top of the previous years total from here on out)
2011 - 736,000
2012 - 874,000
2013 - 1,012,000
2014 - 1,150,000
2015 - 1,288,000

Total - $5,658,000

They cant give him more than that...and they cant throw in 25,000,000 signing bonus (to equal the 5 mil a year deal you mentioned).

If there arent any other ways around this...I would say doing a 1 or 2 year extension and throw in a nice but yet reasonable bonus so hes making around say 5 mil a year or whatever...then once a new CBA/etc is in place...THEN..work out a long term deal....which is what the guy who wrote the article mentioned.

steelreserve
04-27-2010, 10:55 PM
Thanks again Roger Baddell.

If we had a competent commisioner this issue would be resolved by now.

Seriously. Have they even been TRYING to get that done? I haven't heard anything about a new labor deal in months, but apparently the commissioner has plenty of time to spend worrying about player conduct and new overtime rules and games in London.

Yeah -- overtime rules that will never be used and games in London that will never happen BECAUSE THERE WILL BE NO GAMES IF YOU DON'T GET THE LABOR DEAL DONE FIRST, SHITHEAD.

mesaSteeler
04-27-2010, 10:57 PM
You apparently didnt read or understand the article. With the CBA rules for the uncapped year, the contract extension rules changed...as it says in the article...

"The short version of what this means now is that an extension for a player who has remained under contract from 2009 through 2010 can provide for an increase per year of only 30% of his 2009 non-signing bonus salary. Woodley made just $460,000 in 2009 as part of his rookie deal, the minimum salary for a third-year player. This currently limits his salary under a potential new deal to just $598,000 in 2010, $736,000 in 2011, $874,000 in 2012, and an additional $138,000 greater for every year thereafter.

On a new six-year deal, that means a maximum total salary of just $5,658,000. "

So the MOST they can offer for base salary is....

2010 - 598,000 (just add 138,000 on top of the previous years total from here on out)
2011 - 736,000
2012 - 874,000
2013 - 1,012,000
2014 - 1,150,000
2015 - 1,288,000

Total - $5,658,000

They cant give him more than that...and they cant throw in 25,000,000 signing bonus (to equal the 5 mil a year deal you mentioned).

If there arent any other ways around this...I would say doing a 1 or 2 year extension and throw in a nice but yet reasonable bonus so hes making around say 5 mil a year or whatever...then once a new CBA/etc is in place...THEN..work out a long term deal....which is what the guy who wrote the article mentioned.

Excellent analysis. :applaudit::applaudit::hatsoff::hatsoff::hatsoff:

SteelKnight
04-27-2010, 11:01 PM
I do not think he is easily replaceable. He is a great pass rusher. They must find a way to get this done. Harrison won't go on forever and he is already 32. The OLB'ers drive our defense. We have no idea what we have in our new draft picks. We know what we have with Woodley.

Make it happen Colbert.

No way. He is replaceable. No way would I pay him 6 year 78 mill or even 6 year 60 mill...or even 6 year 48 million. He deserves 5-5.5 mil per year. If he says no, replace him.

Let's save the money for Ike (who I think deserves 5 million per year) and Troy (who I think deserves 9.5 million per year.

I've learned my lesson and you should too. Fool me once, shame...
ook me a while. I panicked with Greene, Lloyd, Nickerson, Scott, Gildon, and Porter,
We always survive...ALWAYS. Even if Worilds needed an extra year, they could move Timmons out to LOLB and put Foote at ILB to buy time for Worilds or Gibson to get ready.

Sorry. Woodly just isn't worth a ton.

SteelKnight
04-27-2010, 11:04 PM
I agree. No one player is indispensable including who ever is playing QB. If we can sign him at the market value then well and good. If not then let him walk. A lot will depend on how well he plays this season. Remember Kendrell Bell?

We almost agree. I feel the only 2 players on the Steelers that are not replaceable are Ben and Troy...that's it.

SteelKnight
04-27-2010, 11:07 PM
Yeah, just like every other great pass rusher we've had wasn't easily replaceable. Why do you think we took so many linebackers? We're prepared.

I definitely would like to see him stick around for another deal, but if we're talking $10M a year, that's pretty preposterous and I'd wish him good luck on the Redskins. He's very good, but he is maybe the fifth-best player on our defense, which means we can't afford to pay him like he's the #1 star. He wants that money, he'll have to go to a shit team where he IS the #1 star.

Good point. It is just bad precedent. You know you have Troy and Timmons contracts coming up the next year and Ike's this year and in addition you've told Clark he is worth less than 4m. You can't simply go and pay this guy more than Harrison or something like that. No way.

Bye.

SteelKnight
04-27-2010, 11:29 PM
You apparently didnt read or understand the article. With the CBA rules for the uncapped year, the contract extension rules changed...as it says in the article...

"The short version of what this means now is that an extension for a player who has remained under contract from 2009 through 2010 can provide for an increase per year of only 30% of his 2009 non-signing bonus salary. Woodley made just $460,000 in 2009 as part of his rookie deal, the minimum salary for a third-year player. This currently limits his salary under a potential new deal to just $598,000 in 2010, $736,000 in 2011, $874,000 in 2012, and an additional $138,000 greater for every year thereafter.

On a new six-year deal, that means a maximum total salary of just $5,658,000. "

So the MOST they can offer for base salary is....

2010 - 598,000 (just add 138,000 on top of the previous years total from here on out)
2011 - 736,000
2012 - 874,000
2013 - 1,012,000
2014 - 1,150,000
2015 - 1,288,000

Total - $5,658,000

They cant give him more than that...and they cant throw in 25,000,000 signing bonus (to equal the 5 mil a year deal you mentioned).

If there arent any other ways around this...I would say doing a 1 or 2 year extension and throw in a nice but yet reasonable bonus so hes making around say 5 mil a year or whatever...then once a new CBA/etc is in place...THEN..work out a long term deal....which is what the guy who wrote the article mentioned.


I did read it and I understood it but since I haven't heard a lot of hoopla about it, I am not worried. I saw how the Jets did Santonio's contract. So even if we must keep the salaries low (I know the Jets went to lower it further) there are other types of bonuses that can be used. Once you show me that the only thing that is exempt is the signing bonus then I'll agree that they should do a sorter 2 or 3 year deal with most of the pay in a signing bonus.

So simple... I read the article and just decided to focus on the bigger picture of how much he is worth in the first place since the amounts tossed out were more shocking to me than any red tape.

SteelKnight
04-27-2010, 11:59 PM
You apparently didnt read or understand the article. With the CBA rules for the uncapped year, the contract extension rules changed...as it says in the article...

"The short version of what this means now is that an extension for a player who has remained under contract from 2009 through 2010 can provide for an increase per year of only 30% of his 2009 non-signing bonus salary. Woodley made just $460,000 in 2009 as part of his rookie deal, the minimum salary for a third-year player. This currently limits his salary under a potential new deal to just $598,000 in 2010, $736,000 in 2011, $874,000 in 2012, and an additional $138,000 greater for every year thereafter.

On a new six-year deal, that means a maximum total salary of just $5,658,000. "

So the MOST they can offer for base salary is....

2010 - 598,000 (just add 138,000 on top of the previous years total from here on out)
2011 - 736,000
2012 - 874,000
2013 - 1,012,000
2014 - 1,150,000
2015 - 1,288,000

Total - $5,658,000

They cant give him more than that...and they cant throw in 25,000,000 signing bonus (to equal the 5 mil a year deal you mentioned).

If there arent any other ways around this...I would say doing a 1 or 2 year extension and throw in a nice but yet reasonable bonus so hes making around say 5 mil a year or whatever...then once a new CBA/etc is in place...THEN..work out a long term deal....which is what the guy who wrote the article mentioned.

Deleted. I'll leave the contract detail talk to CPAs. lol

CanadianSteel
04-28-2010, 12:23 AM
I dont happen to think Woodley is easily replaceable IMO.....Mosty LB's dont break into the starting lineup so quick with the Steelers and he has put up consistent numbers since becoming the starter and even in spot duty the first year. dude knows how to get to the QB which is crucial in Lebeau's scheme.
He is also clutch in the playoffs and just reaching his prime.
We lost santonio hitting his prime (by his own fault) and would hate to see Woodley go .....

steelerdude15
04-28-2010, 12:46 AM
I hope he stays, he's been so great for us and for the city. I just hope they get this damn deal done so they can play football in 2011 or all of us are going to be pissed. :mad:

Merchant
04-28-2010, 12:51 AM
The FO will figure something out. And I think Woodley is gonna be cooperative in the contract negotiations. I remember reading a Q&A with him and the contract issue was brought up and he said something like, money isn't everything, winning is a lot more important to me.

SteelKnight
04-28-2010, 12:57 AM
I dont happen to think Woodley is easily replaceable IMO.....Mosty LB's dont break into the starting lineup so quick with the Steelers and he has put up consistent numbers since becoming the starter and even in spot duty the first year. dude knows how to get to the QB which is crucial in Lebeau's scheme.
He is also clutch in the playoffs and just reaching his prime.
We lost santonio hitting his prime (by his own fault) and would hate to see Woodley go .....

I like the guy. Don't get me wrong but the Steelrs just should not pay more than 5.5 (maybe 6) million a year for him. It sets a bad precedent and will make others harder to sign.

Don't you think Timmons would be able to get to the QB too? Yes he would. So even if Worilds needs an extra year, Timmons can jump in that spot while Foote takes back his old role for a year (assuming Sylvester is not ready and better). I thought Fox was OK inside too. Any of those combinations would be better than paying 10 million per year or even 8 million per year. And that's assuming Worilds or Gibson aren't ready. Woodley was ready after 1 year. They might be too. I like our options. Definitely don't overpay.

Ike on the other hand is NOT replaceable. He's covered Moss, Fitz, Ochocinco, Wayne, Marshal, Andre Johnson, Plax, Jennings, and this year we will ask im to cover Calvin Johnson and Colston. He does well. He just needs to get more picks. At any rate, he is defintely not replaceable and I'd rather pay him a high salary and let Woodley go.

SteelKnight
04-28-2010, 01:03 AM
The FO will figure something out. And I think Woodley is gonna be cooperative in the contract negotiations. I remember reading a Q&A with him and the contract issue was brought up and he said something like, money isn't everything, winning is a lot more important to me.

I hope so because if he leaves and signs a big contract, he will be put on the left side dealing with LTs and a lot will be expected of him. He is in a much better situation having harrison as a partner drawing attention. He'll still be good without Harrison. porter did fine when he left, but if he wants to win a Superbowl, he should stay...but if he leaves, he will be replaced by Worilds, Timmons or Gibson.

Like I've said, I got worried when each of the previous LBs left and EVERY single time, the Steelers were just fine.

Acerinox
04-28-2010, 03:08 AM
A lot of Woodley hatin' goin' on here. What makes anyone think that his demands are unreasonable? That's not the point of the (excellent) article at the top! The point is that it is hard to even get close to his LEGITIMATE value with a standard contract, making things a real pain in the azz for everyone.
Incentive-linked contracts suck if you get hurt - and the getting-hurt part is the biggest reason why any player is ever interested in signing them.
I really hope they do a deal with Woodley, as he's my favorite young player on this team.

But the point is NOT that Woodley will price himself out. It's that Goodell is such a sucktard, that the team may not be able to find a way to give him any sort of value, even 3m a year, if he stays.

Galax Steeler
04-28-2010, 04:31 AM
I am not worried we will sign him back. If Woodley was to walk then alot of fans would be crying in my book. He has the motor to get after the quarterback and make plays happen. We need to get him signed.

SteelKnight
04-28-2010, 05:14 AM
A lot of Woodley hatin' goin' on here. What makes anyone think that his demands are unreasonable? That's not the point of the (excellent) article at the top! The point is that it is hard to even get close to his LEGITIMATE value with a standard contract, making things a real pain in the azz for everyone.
Incentive-linked contracts suck if you get hurt - and the getting-hurt part is the biggest reason why any player is ever interested in signing them.
I really hope they do a deal with Woodley, as he's my favorite young player on this team.

But the point is NOT that Woodley will price himself out. It's that Goodell is such a sucktard, that the team may not be able to find a way to give him any sort of value, even 3m a year, if he stays.

I know what the point is but the examples it gave with Demarcus Ware and Harrison were scary to think about. I just don't want to pay so it is not only that we can't get a standard contract but if we could, ow much do you think he i worth?

If he asks for 5.5M/y, we should do it. If he wants 8M/y, let him walk. Once we can agree on value, they can look for the loopholes to make it happen. If he is too much then the problem is solved.

No Woodley hatin'. I like him but I've liked all the LBs we've let go. We will survive.

solardave
04-28-2010, 05:32 AM
I think he gets a one year extension offer with a 5 mil signing bonus and we figure out next year how to lock him up. None of this happens until we go into camp and see what the youngbloods can do. If they do well we might lose Lamar.

Curtain_of_Steel
04-28-2010, 09:02 AM
All they had to do is franchise tag him, than once the collective bargaining is done you work it out. As long as they are upfront with the reasons he should understand it.
If its a lock out than it won't matter anyway, and they won't play till a new CBA is in place thereby allowing him to sign.

1207
04-28-2010, 09:46 AM
Woodley is not going anywhere. He is priority # 1 this offseason. Unfortunately the labor situation makes it a more difficult problem than it needs to be. On the other hand, all of the other 31 teams are working under the same rules, so it is not like somebody can swoop in and offer him more in base salary than the Steelers can. Woodley is a smart guy. I'm sure he realizes this and will be willing to work with the FO.

As for his value, he is way more valuable that a slightley better than average CB, who can't catch, and is about to turn 30. When Woodley finally gets his deal done it will be worth more than the deal recently signed by Harrison. His is one of the top five pass rushers in the league entering the prime of his career. You don't let guys like that walk.

BlastFurnace
04-28-2010, 10:40 AM
I know what the point is but the examples it gave with Demarcus Ware and Harrison were scary to think about. I just don't want to pay so it is not only that we can't get a standard contract but if we could, ow much do you think he i worth?

If he asks for 5.5M/y, we should do it. If he wants 8M/y, let him walk. Once we can agree on value, they can look for the loopholes to make it happen. If he is too much then the problem is solved.

No Woodley hatin'. I like him but I've liked all the LBs we've let go. We will survive.

I think we all know that Woodley doesn't deserve Demarcus Ware money. I would be willing to bet that Woodley won't be seeking Ware money either.

My problem with many of the posts is that people seem to think that Woodley would be replacable...that we could just plug someone in and replace his production. That may not be the case. We have no idea what Worlids is going to be like. Nor do we know what Gibson will be like either. What we do know is that Woodley gets a tremendous push from his side and is very disruptive. He is also entering the prime years of his career.

Woodley is the best LOLB we have had since Kevin Greene. Yes, Jason Gildon had sacks, but he was also taken out of the play so often with his "Wide Loop Rush". Clark Haggans wasn't any better than Gildon.

I believe that Woodley will get a good offer from the Steelers, so this will end up being a moot point. Then, Steelers fans can begin chipping away at someone else who is due to become a Free Agent. Happens to all of them it seems unless they sign early on.

SteelGhost
04-28-2010, 10:53 AM
I am not worried we will sign him back. If Woodley was to walk then alot of fans would be crying in my book. He has the motor to get after the quarterback and make plays happen. We need to get him signed.

I agree Galax :thumbsup:

IMHO all this new LB signings will be battling to be Potsie's and Silverback's eventual replacements and play special teams. Money counts so does age, wear and tear.

Time will tell :noidea:

On Edit. Maybe one new guy can play inside, Sylvester that is. The other guys are OLB, I forgot to mention that

steelreserve
04-28-2010, 12:13 PM
The FO will figure something out. And I think Woodley is gonna be cooperative in the contract negotiations. I remember reading a Q&A with him and the contract issue was brought up and he said something like, money isn't everything, winning is a lot more important to me.

Yeah, that's one thing going for us. I haven't heard much that would indicate Woodley is interested in busting our balls on this. As long as we give him a deal where he's well-paid, we ought to do fine without needing to go into the diva range. Seems like we end up with a lot of those kinds of guys, as opposed to the other kind (REED!) who make idiotic demands, like a long-term contract for twice the pay rate of the franchise tag.

SteelKnight
04-28-2010, 02:23 PM
All they had to do is franchise tag him, than once the collective bargaining is done you work it out. As long as they are upfront with the reasons he should understand it.
If its a lock out than it won't matter anyway, and they won't play till a new CBA is in place thereby allowing him to sign.

Franchise tag would be too expensive imo. It would cost 9.7 million. No way.

SteelKnight
04-28-2010, 02:34 PM
I think we all know that Woodley doesn't deserve Demarcus Ware money. I would be willing to bet that Woodley won't be seeking Ware money either.

My problem with many of the posts is that people seem to think that Woodley would be replacable...that we could just plug someone in and replace his production. That may not be the case. We have no idea what Worlids is going to be like. Nor do we know what Gibson will be like either. What we do know is that Woodley gets a tremendous push from his side and is very disruptive. He is also entering the prime years of his career.

Woodley is the best LOLB we have had since Kevin Greene. Yes, Jason Gildon had sacks, but he was also taken out of the play so often with his "Wide Loop Rush". Clark Haggans wasn't any better than Gildon.

I believe that Woodley will get a good offer from the Steelers, so this will end up being a moot point. Then, Steelers fans can begin chipping away at someone else who is due to become a Free Agent. Happens to all of them it seems unless they sign early on.

Yeah. It's not to ay that he would ask for Demarcus Ware money but the Ware Contract scares you. I don't think he deserves as much as Harrison because Harrison rushes from the right and not only has pro bowls but a DPOY under his belt.

I don't know what Worilds and Gibson can do but the NFL Network made me feel better. I do know what Timmons can do and I think Timons and Harrison would be just fine. Foote or Fox can man the inside. Is that Ideal? No but it is better than 8 mil per year. If he aks for 5.5 or possibly 6 then maybe. Absolutely noting more than 6. We still have Troy and Timmons contracts coming up the following year and Timomons agent is Drew Rosenhaus.

SteelKnight
04-28-2010, 02:40 PM
Woodley is not going anywhere. He is priority # 1 this offseason. Unfortunately the labor situation makes it a more difficult problem than it needs to be. On the other hand, all of the other 31 teams are working under the same rules, so it is not like somebody can swoop in and offer him more in base salary than the Steelers can. Woodley is a smart guy. I'm sure he realizes this and will be willing to work with the FO.

As for his value, he is way more valuable that a slightley better than average CB, who can't catch, and is about to turn 30. When Woodley finally gets his deal done it will be worth more than the deal recently signed by Harrison. His is one of the top five pass rushers in the league entering the prime of his career. You don't let guys like that walk.

Ike would be harder to replace. Who are you going to put on all those top receivers that I mentioned that ike has been covering? BMac? Gay? lol Even Nnamdi gave him props yesterday as one of the best corners in the league. If he would make 5-6 INTs in a year, he would be appreciated. He is not a slightly better than average. he is a top corner because he covers top receivers and shuts them down ...especially when he can play the way he would like to with Troy's help. Safeties are supposed to be competent.

Timmons can replace Woodly right now. In the furure it might be Worilds or Gibson.

BlastFurnace
04-28-2010, 02:44 PM
Yeah. It's not to ay that he would ask for Demarcus Ware money but the Ware Contract scares you. I don't think he deserves as much as Harrison because Harrison rushes from the right and not only has pro bowls but a DPOY under his belt.

I don't know what Worilds and Gibson can do but the NFL Network made me feel better. I do know what Timmons can do and I think Timons and Harrison would be just fine. Foote or Fox can man the inside. Is that Ideal? No but it is better than 8 mil per year. If he aks for 5.5 or possibly 6 then maybe. Absolutely noting more than 6. We still have Troy and Timmons contracts coming up the following year and Timomons agent is Drew Rosenhaus.

I think he's worth $6 Million a year. 4/$24 Million or 5/$30 million sounds like a good deal for both sides. I bet he gets franchised next year if they can't get a deal done.

steeltheone
04-28-2010, 07:05 PM
The real problem is inside linebacker.

SteelKnight
04-28-2010, 07:30 PM
I think he's worth $6 Million a year. 4/$24 Million or 5/$30 million sounds like a good deal for both sides. I bet he gets franchised next year if they can't get a deal done.

I'm cool with 6 but that is my absolute limit. I think 5.5 would be better.

It is just about the expectation of other players. I think Timmons would expect about a million less. I'd rather get Woodly for 5.5 and Timmons for 4.5.

If we go crazy and offer Woodly something like 7.5, Rosenhaus will be watching.

7willBheaven
04-28-2010, 07:45 PM
I'm cool with 6 but that is my absolute limit. I think 5.5 would be better.

It is just about the expectation of other players. I think Timmons would expect about a million less. I'd rather get Woodly for 5.5 and Timmons for 4.5.

If we go crazy and offer Woodly something like 7.5, Rosenhaus will be watching.

Though in reality...Timmons hasnt done even a fraction of what Woodley has. I'd rather pay Woodley good and Timmons can take less or take a hike, haha.

GrizzlyDean
04-28-2010, 08:15 PM
If there arent any other ways around this...I would say doing a 1 or 2 year extension and throw in a nice but yet reasonable bonus so hes making around say 5 mil a year or whatever...then once a new CBA/etc is in place...THEN..work out a long term deal....which is what the guy who wrote the article mentioned.[/QUOTE]




But why would Woodly agree to a 1 to 2 year contract. If he blows his knee out during this time then the steelers would not give him an extention and Woodly would be screwed. He has to look out for himself. I may be way off base but this what my little brain was telling me as i read the above.

7willBheaven
04-28-2010, 09:03 PM
But why would Woodly agree to a 1 to 2 year contract. If he blows his knee out during this time then the steelers would not give him an extention and Woodly would be screwed. He has to look out for himself. I may be way off base but this what my little brain was telling me as i read the above.


The reason I said that is based on the rules/limitations/etc the CBA right now for the uncapped year...if the Steelers wanted to lock him up before he hit free agency this is one of the options...based on all the things going on, unless there is some other loophole to get him a good pay day under the current rules. I'm not sure what next year will bring be it if there will be a new CBA in place and whats its rules/etc are. But right now the main point is their hands could be somewhat tied based on the current rules and such...and I'd rather give him a short extension...then maybe NEXT year give him his deal (depending on a new CBA/etc). Of course I can see that side of it...BUT...based on the Steelers wanting to keep him and hearing off and on that Woodley wants to stay a Steeler...that this could be the middle grounds so to speak that will have to meet at for right now.

Psyychoward86
04-28-2010, 09:26 PM
Wow people are really overrating Woodley badly. Dont get me wrong, he's exceeding all expectations and lighting it up, but everyone is just taking into account that he can rush the passer. linebackers have other responsibilities you know. While the cornerbacks and safeties were taking all the heat last year, some of the people that looked at the whole picture realized that our linebackers werent covering very well against the short passing game: swing passes and bubble screens. Thought Farrior was bad? Woodley was pretty bad too, even if he got a little better as the season wore on? And remember that Woodley plays with James Harrison on the other side. The last two seasons, Harrison has been an absolute machine for the 1st half of the season and then his sack count dropped hard for the 2nd half. During that same span, Woodley started out quiet, then started racking up his sack count while Harrison was dormant. This is NOT a coincidence. These two feed off of each other. As soon as focus deters from either of them, the other one starts to have more success.

Look at the whole picture before you crown Woodley a golden buddha statue

BlastFurnace
04-28-2010, 09:52 PM
I'm cool with 6 but that is my absolute limit. I think 5.5 would be better.

It is just about the expectation of other players. I think Timmons would expect about a million less. I'd rather get Woodly for 5.5 and Timmons for 4.5.

If we go crazy and offer Woodly something like 7.5, Rosenhaus will be watching.

I wouldn't give Timmons 4.5. Personally, I think of all the LB'ers on the team, Timmons is the one that is easiest to replace and the one that I don' think the defense would miss that much. He may prove me wrong this season....I hope he does.

SteelKnight
04-28-2010, 10:08 PM
I wouldn't give Timmons 4.5. Personally, I think of all the LB'ers on the team, Timmons is the one that is easiest to replace and the one that I don' think the defense would miss that much. He may prove me wrong this season....I hope he does.

Yeah. I guess you are right. I keep thinking potential with that kid. He was injured some last year. I'd say he might be worth 3.5.

BlastFurnace
04-28-2010, 10:36 PM
Yeah. I guess you are right. I keep thinking potential with that kid. He was injured some last year. I'd say he might be worth 3.5.

lol...I forgot about the aging Farrior. I have heard that Timmons is most suited to Farrior's position. I hope he has a great season this year.

steeltheone
04-28-2010, 11:20 PM
Timmons no way suited to be inside we are in alot of trouble soon.

steelerdude15
04-29-2010, 12:38 AM
lol...I forgot about the aging Farrior. I have heard that Timmons is most suited to Farrior's position. I hope he has a great season this year.
Yup, I agree, I too hope that Timmons and Farrior as well both have great seasons.

Willem Gerber
04-30-2010, 08:53 AM
Looat at it this way....I say sign him for a max of 5 million. He is not the best defender in your defense....

If he goes, I can promise you that he will end up as a mini Steeler in the desert...The Whiz will pay him.