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ZornToLargent
02-07-2006, 04:30 PM
Can you folks really tell me, especially after your Colts game and the SB, that there is nothing wrong with the state of officiating in the NFL?

If so, why haven't we ever seen out cries from around the country about this before?

It is certainly not just Seattle complaining....it is sport writers from all around the country...and we all know they are not all Seahawks fans.

I really wish, as NFL fans, you folks would support a referee over haul in the NFL. And realize how lop sided the calls were in the SB....just like they were in your Colts game. You saw it then, do you still see it from this last Sunday, or has the win clouded your judgment?

Yes, nothing will take your newest Lombardi trophy from Pittsburgh. Your team played won that game?.it?s over with. But, just as the calls were going unfairly against your team with the Colts, the same thing happened to the Seahawks in the Super Bowl. Yes, your team did enough to over compensate the piss poor officiating in the Colts game, and we did not in the Super Bowl?but none of that matters.

All that matters is in future years, the only thing to determine the outcome of a game, is the two teams playing the game.

CASTEEL
02-07-2006, 04:40 PM
OH for christ's sake Zorn...... YES.......

we all agree that the officiating should get an overhaul........

GEEZE man....... :grin:


ONE FOT THE THUMB.....DONE!!!

83-Steelers-43
02-07-2006, 04:41 PM
*yaaaaaaaaawns*

You still here dude? With a thread that has been made at least fifteen times already.

ZornToLargent
02-07-2006, 04:41 PM
Thanks CASTEEL.

Congrats on yor thumb ring! ;)

Da Bears
02-07-2006, 04:42 PM
Can you folks really tell me, especially after your Colts game and the SB, that there is nothing wrong with the state of officiating in the NFL?

If so, why haven't we ever seen out cries from around the country about this before?

It is certainly not just Seattle complaining....it is sport writers from all around the country...and we all know they are not all Seahawks fans.

I really wish, as NFL fans, you folks would support a referee over haul in the NFL. And realize how lop sided the calls were in the SB....just like they were in your Colts game. You saw it then, do you still see it from this last Sunday, or has the win clouded your judgment?

Yes, nothing will take your newest Lombardi trophy from Pittsburgh. Your team played won that game?.it?s over with. But, just as the calls were going unfairly against your team with the Colts, the same thing happened to the Seahawks in the Super Bowl. Yes, your team did enough to over compensate the piss poor officiating in the Colts game, and we did not in the Super Bowl?but none of that matters.

All that matters is in future years, the only thing to determine the outcome of a game, is the two teams playing the game.
Yo dude I`m just a bystander here but what`s up bringing this here again? You have enough of these bitch threads started already saying the same thing. Sorry your team lost and the way it happend was not the best way to go down, but it`s over. You need to take one of my little wonder pills as well and stop being one. Zorn to Lrgent is that some kind of new wave rock band. Take care dude and Da Bears will see you next season as well.

ZornToLargent
02-07-2006, 04:43 PM
*yaaaaaaaaawns*

You still here dude?
Yup, it's a good board with cool people. How could I leave?

Admitting this and getting behind an overhaul in the officiating department in the NFL does not take away from your win.

I will say it aloud one more time....I am not defending dropped passes and missed field goals....and as football fans, none of us should be defending piss poor officiating.

83-Steelers-43
02-07-2006, 04:44 PM
It's the fact that you keep typing up threads that ARE ALREADY IN EXISTANCE.

It's lame and pointless. Nevermind, it's not worth my time. Have a blast. What ever get's your rocks off buddy.

WisconsinSteelerMan
02-07-2006, 04:46 PM
Yes, nothing will take your newest Lombardi trophy from Pittsburgh. Your team played won that game?.it?s over with. But, just as the calls were going unfairly against your team with the Colts, the same thing happened to the Seahawks in the Super Bowl. Yes, your team did enough to over compensate the piss poor officiating in the Colts game, and we did not in the Super Bowl?but none of that matters.

All that matters is in future years, the only thing to determine the outcome of a game, is the two teams playing the game.

Hi there Zorn!

I thank you for a "positive" post regarding the officiating. The thing that makes me angry about the officiating is that it robs a little bit of the "glory" from the win that we pulled off in Detroit.

If the calls that some are calling "Questionable" were sent the other direction, there is no telling whether Pittsburgh would have won that game or lost it. We just NEVER WILL KNOW.

My major beef in this game was that I didn't get to see my "heros" in action. There was no "Big Ben Wins the Day" headline or "The Bus Scores!!!!" line.

Please don't get me wrong... I am absolutely EXSTATIC about the win, the trophy, the feeling of euphoria that everyone has in Pittsburgh, and ONE FOR THE THUMB... I just wish that there was not this "question mark" in everyone (except the SteelerNation's) mind about what we accomplished at Super Bowl XL...

I agree that we need to look at the way we officiate games... bad calls need to be NONEXISTANT!!!

Mike in Wisconsin

ZornToLargent
02-07-2006, 04:47 PM
Yo dude I`m just a bystander here but what`s up bringing this here again? You have enough of these bitch threads started already saying the same thing. Sorry your team lost and the way it happend was not the best way to go down, but it`s over. You need to take one of my little wonder pills as well and stop being one. Zorn to Lrgent is that some kind of new wave rock band. Take care dude and Da Bears will see you next season as well.
So, according to you, we all should just sit idly back and watch as the sport we all hold in such high regard, gets trampled and squashed by part time refs? Is that really what you are saying? You know, if nobody brings it up until next years playoffs, then nothing will ever get changed and the state of officiating in the NFL will just continue to deteriorate.

tony hipchest
02-07-2006, 04:49 PM
Can you folks really tell me, especially after your Colts game and the SB, that there is nothing wrong with the state of officiating in the NFL?

If so, why haven't we ever seen out cries from around the country about this before?

It is certainly not just Seattle complaining....it is sport writers from all around the country...and we all know they are not all Seahawks fans.

I really wish, as NFL fans, you folks would support a referee over haul in the NFL. And realize how lop sided the calls were in the SB....just like they were in your Colts game. You saw it then, do you still see it from this last Sunday, or has the win clouded your judgment?

Yes, nothing will take your newest Lombardi trophy from Pittsburgh. Your team played won that game?.it?s over with. But, just as the calls were going unfairly against your team with the Colts, the same thing happened to the Seahawks in the Super Bowl. Yes, your team did enough to over compensate the piss poor officiating in the Colts game, and we did not in the Super Bowl?but none of that matters.

All that matters is in future years, the only thing to determine the outcome of a game, is the two teams playing the game. i can agree with that. id be pissed too. my biggest beef is the rule on a complete catch. the simms pass in the endzone that was ruled incomplete, the randel el vs. cinci. those both clouded the polamalu int. stevens had a catch and clearly had 2 feet down (even if he wouldve recovered the fumble for a 20 yd gain i would still believe it was a catch) to me a catch is a catch is a catch. too many great catches are wiped out by this "football move" crap that doesnt even apply to all catches and places way to much subjectivity on the refs making the call. like in baseball i think the call should go to the runner so to speak. i can understand where mistakes can be made in enforcing no contact rules (such as holding and pass interference), in a contact sport.

as for bens td it was ruled a td the microsecond the nose of the ball touched the front of the white line. yet a wr can catch the ball in the end zone, take 2 steps as he falls out of bounds, and if the ball pops loose it is ruled incomplete even though it was caught and in the endzone for more than 2-3 seconds. for me it is more the rules that the refs have to try and enforce rather than them actually enforcing them. if the ref actually knew the nuances of the rule in polamalus play im sure the ref wouldve made the right call.

so yes while the refs did do extremely poorly they might be trying to make chicken salad out of chicken shit. if they start letting wr get away with the ticky tack stuff d. jackson did then we will have receivers doing it on every play. so maybe its the rule that needs to be changed to something easier to enforce. after the patriots manhandled the rams in the sb the refs were forced to start enforcing the 5 yd contact rule. i betcha anything we will see a stronger emphasis of enforcing the type of contact jackson gave to c. hope. cause its obvious it hasnt been enforced that much this year.

BB2W
02-07-2006, 04:50 PM
And realize how lop sided the calls were in the SB....just like they were in your Colts game. You saw it then, do you still see it from this last Sunday, or has the win clouded your judgment?
We won the Colts game too... you must overcome bad calls by the officials. Human error is part of officiating in sports, and people have been complaining about it for decades. See, I relize that the refs the NFL has are in fact human and capable of making mistakes. Every team in every game has questionable calls go against them.

I once saw an umpire call a pitch that was a ball... a strike, and I once saw a line judge call a ball that was in... out. One time I was watching basketball and the ref called a clear charging call a blocking foul. One time I was watching a boxing match where the judge scored a 10-9 round for the wrong fighter. My point is... he shoulda knocked him out. You can't let the refs decide the game for you.

The Steelers played awful in that game and if your guys brought their A-game you would have won...

- Did the refs miss two field goals for the Seahawks?
- Did the refs drop five passes?
- Did the refs manage the clock poorly?
- Did the refs allow Willie Parker to bust a 75 yard run?
- Did the refs bite on an obvious trick play that went for a TD?
- Did the refs allow Ben to buy time and complete a pass that could have been intercepted?
- Did the refs throw an INT right to Ike in the red-zone?
- Did the refs punt it into the end-zone three time in the first quarter?

Get a grip, and let it go... your Seahawks didn't execute.

tony hipchest
02-07-2006, 04:54 PM
So, according to you, we all should just sit idly back and watch as the sport we all hold in such high regard, gets trampled and squashed by part time refs? Is that really what you are saying? You know, if nobody brings it up until next years playoffs, then nothing will ever get changed and the state of officiating in the NFL will just continue to deteriorate. the only problem with full time refs is that the nfl would then be paying the same guys full salaries and for 5 days a week to make the same type of subjective judgement mistakes made on sunday.

how would a full time ref be able to judge if bens td run touched the line any better than a part timer???????

Koopa
02-07-2006, 04:54 PM
this will be the 90th time i say this, GREAT TEAMS OVERCOME BAD OFFICIATING, the steelers did it, if the seahawks were that much better why couldn't they? i'll tell you why, IT'S BECAUSE THEY AIN'T BETTER

Prosdo
02-07-2006, 04:55 PM
I would like to atleast see full time refs given a try.

tony hipchest
02-07-2006, 05:01 PM
I would like to atleast see full time refs given a try. the cost of that would just be passed onto the fan. if it meant a pay per view superbowl or higher ticket prices who would be for it then?

syde18T
02-07-2006, 05:03 PM
Can you folks really tell me, especially after your Colts game and the SB, that there is nothing wrong with the state of officiating in the NFL?

If so, why haven't we ever seen out cries from around the country about this before?

It is certainly not just Seattle complaining....it is sport writers from all around the country...and we all know they are not all Seahawks fans.

I really wish, as NFL fans, you folks would support a referee over haul in the NFL. And realize how lop sided the calls were in the SB....just like they were in your Colts game. You saw it then, do you still see it from this last Sunday, or has the win clouded your judgment?

Yes, nothing will take your newest Lombardi trophy from Pittsburgh. Your team played won that game?.it?s over with. But, just as the calls were going unfairly against your team with the Colts, the same thing happened to the Seahawks in the Super Bowl. Yes, your team did enough to over compensate the piss poor officiating in the Colts game, and we did not in the Super Bowl?but none of that matters.

All that matters is in future years, the only thing to determine the outcome of a game, is the two teams playing the game.

There has been cries about bad officiating all season. In this case, this is the Super Bowl, the biggest game of the year, and the only real game left to play for the season, so the attention of all people is centered around it, hence why it seems that more people are complaining about it.

Most of your players may not have complained much about it, but your head coach was glad to play that card. These people who bitch and moan about the officiating are the same individuals who told Pittsburgh and their fans to shut up after the Colts game when they opened their mouthes about the officiating. Imagine that. Now that the bad calls favored the team that won, they want to open up their yaps again. Good riddance.

These people can yap all they want as far as I am concerned. It just ruins the image of how the Seahawks are taking a loss.....

Prosdo
02-07-2006, 05:03 PM
Good point Tony.

BB2W
02-07-2006, 05:06 PM
the cost of that would just be passed onto the fan.
Seahawks fans everywhere are pulling out there check books. Lets just pass the cost onto Paul Allen... he's got some loot.

BlitzburghRockCity
02-07-2006, 05:08 PM
I really tire of talking about this topic so I will do it once more for some unbeknown reason ...

Yes the officiating in the NFL has been going downhill for the last few years now, yes we need full time officials who should be made to take refresher classes every off season to review the latest rules, and they should also be made to attend an X number of NFL team practices during training camp and the offseason to make sure everyone is on the same page.

The NFL officials have a very hard job to do, at the blink of eye they must make a call that is of the utmost importance. I dont envy them at all and dont want their jobs for anything really... but if the NFL is the biggest and best sports outfit in the world, then we need to take the initiative and bring on full time officials.

The cost of full time officials would be large, there is no doubt, and would have to be part of the new barganing agreement in some way Im sure...but thats why they are paid the big bucks up in New York offices of the NFL..to figure this out before it gets any worse.

Im not going to comment any more on the game, ive done that enough these last few days and anybody that has read my posts knows how I feel about the game itself.

Koopa
02-07-2006, 05:08 PM
i hate these refs but great teams play through it, so having the same refs don't bother me much cause the steelers know how to win with everything going against them

MNsteelers
02-07-2006, 05:11 PM
Can you folks really tell me, especially after your Colts game and the SB, that there is nothing wrong with the state of officiating in the NFL?

If so, why haven't we ever seen out cries from around the country about this before?

It is certainly not just Seattle complaining....it is sport writers from all around the country...and we all know they are not all Seahawks fans.

I really wish, as NFL fans, you folks would support a referee over haul in the NFL. And realize how lop sided the calls were in the SB....just like they were in your Colts game. You saw it then, do you still see it from this last Sunday, or has the win clouded your judgment?

Yes, nothing will take your newest Lombardi trophy from Pittsburgh. Your team played won that game?.it?s over with. But, just as the calls were going unfairly against your team with the Colts, the same thing happened to the Seahawks in the Super Bowl. Yes, your team did enough to over compensate the piss poor officiating in the Colts game, and we did not in the Super Bowl?but none of that matters.

All that matters is in future years, the only thing to determine the outcome of a game, is the two teams playing the game.

For all the fun I poked outta ya through the last two weeks, ZornToLargent, I am fully backing you on this one. You said it perfectly. The officials made themselves too much of a part of the game. The job they did was less than mediocre, and extremely frustrating knowing the moment I've been waiting for for longer than I can remember is tainted in the first few days after it happened - which are supposed to be the best times of it all. I even said on this site many times, I really just hope the game is played out like men, and it is not decided by the officials or the kickers. And I guess we'll never know what might have happened.

Hey, props on a good season, though, man. I'm not saying Seattle would have won, but I am saying the officials were not fully there. Just do us a favor and tell Seattle to stop the martyr BS. It went both ways. As much as I question the validity of that hold, I question Jerramy Stevens' "incomplete" pass drop. Shouldn't have been holding, should have been a fumble.

MNsteelers
02-07-2006, 05:18 PM
the only problem with full time refs is that the nfl would then be paying the same guys full salaries and for 5 days a week to make the same type of subjective judgement mistakes made on sunday.

how would a full time ref be able to judge if bens td run touched the line any better than a part timer???????


Ben's touchdown run was one of those plays where the validity of it is going to be judged SOLELY by the referee. There is NO ONE ON EARTH who can say "that was a terrible call." There isn't even close to enough evidence to support such a claim. And if you think you can, you're biased one way or another. You can't see the ball on the replay, and the official sure as hell wasn't going to be able to see it live. He has to make a call, and he did. The video wasn't going to help there. I, for one, would not have been nearly up-in-arms about that call had it not gone in favor of Pittsburgh for the exact same reasons I mentioned here; NO ONE could make a definitive call. But a call has to be made.

I realize that isn't your point in posting, but I wanted to mention it. It's interesting you choose the word "subjectivity." Don't you think the quality of the officiating would concurrently improve given the officials have nothing else to do but study and practice? You don't see the offensive line of Seattle going to get jobs this off season. They are concentrating on the ones they have, and figuring out how they can improve this off season. I don't see why it should be any different for the officials.

RoethlisBURGHer
02-07-2006, 05:18 PM
Yes,the officiating does need an overhaul.They need to make the refs full-time and fine them for thier dumbass bad calls.

But,I think they did the right thing with the Roethlisberger TD (I do think the tip of the ball crossed the GL before Ben got knocked back) by making the TD call and then reviewing it.

But the officiating didn't screw you over.Your reciever should have never locked his elbow,that's what made the ref throw the flag.Nine times out of ten,when the elbow gets locked,it's gonna be called OPI.And to do it right in front of the official was really stupid.

There were missed calls when it came to the Steelers to.The block on Big Ben on the INT return was never called,and should have been.That let you guys score your lone TD.The holding on Haggans was obvious,so don't give me shit on that.You guys were holding Haggans and Smith all night because your o-line couldn't handle the pressure those two were bringing.

Also,it's not the ref's fault your recievers can't get thier feet down in bounds.

It's not the officials fault that Holmgren can't manage the clock to save his life.

It's not the officials fault that Hasselbeck can't figure out zone coverage and threw an easy pick to Ike Taylor.

ZornToLargent
02-07-2006, 05:20 PM
the only problem with full time refs is that the nfl would then be paying the same guys full salaries and for 5 days a week to make the same type of subjective judgement mistakes made on sunday.

how would a full time ref be able to judge if bens td run touched the line any better than a part timer???????
They could, oh I don't know.....BONE UP on their officiating skills throughout the week instead of only thinking about football once a week. You can't tell me the NFL can't afford full time refs.

ZornToLargent
02-07-2006, 05:22 PM
this will be the 90th time i say this, GREAT TEAMS OVERCOME BAD OFFICIATING, the steelers did it, if the seahawks were that much better why couldn't they? i'll tell you why, IT'S BECAUSE THEY AIN'T BETTER
Not the point. Thanks, Koopa, but that is not the point of this thread.

ZornToLargent
02-07-2006, 05:23 PM
the cost of that would just be passed onto the fan. if it meant a pay per view superbowl or higher ticket prices who would be for it then?
You can't tell me that the NFL can't afford to do this. I don't buy that.

MNsteelers
02-07-2006, 05:24 PM
Yes,the officiating does need an overhaul.They need to make the refs full-time and fine them for thier dumbass bad calls.

But,I think they did the right thing with the Roethlisberger TD (I do think the tip of the ball crossed the GL before Ben got knocked back) by making the TD call and then reviewing it.

But the officiating didn't screw you over.Your reciever should have never locked his elbow,that's what made the ref throw the flag.Nine times out of ten,when the elbow gets locked,it's gonna be called OPI.And to do it right in front of the official was really stupid.

There were missed calls when it came to the Steelers to.The block on Big Ben on the INT return was never called,and should have been.That let you guys score your lone TD.The holding on Haggans was obvious,so don't give me shit on that.You guys were holding Haggans and Smith all night because your o-line couldn't handle the pressure those two were bringing.

Also,it's not the ref's fault your recievers can't get thier feet down in bounds.

It's not the officials fault that Holmgren can't manage the clock to save his life.

It's not the officials fault that Hasselbeck can't figure out zone coverage and threw an easy pick to Ike Taylor.

I agree. If Jackson does the SAME THING in the corner of the end zone, where he wouldn't be directly in front of the back judge, it probably doesn't get called. John Madden wasn't that close. You weren't that close, I wasn't that close. There was no one on earth closer to that play than the official. It's REALLY hard not to call it if you see his elbow lock from a yard and a half away.

Da Bears
02-07-2006, 05:24 PM
So, according to you, we all should just sit idly back and watch as the sport we all hold in such high regard, gets trampled and squashed by part time refs? Is that really what you are saying? You know, if nobody brings it up until next years playoffs, then nothing will ever get changed and the state of officiating in the NFL will just continue to deteriorate.
Read a bit dude! I don`t think I said anything like that and I know I don`t put words in peoples mouths like you just did. I said give it a rest here. There are already enough bitch threads on this subject and taking your fight here will do no good. So save your sarcastic remarks and learn how to read a post and don`t try to tell me what I said or what I meant.

ZornToLargent
02-07-2006, 05:26 PM
Most of your players may not have complained much about it, but your head coach was glad to play that card. These people who bitch and moan about the officiating are the same individuals who told Pittsburgh and their fans to shut up after the Colts game when they opened their mouthes about the officiating.
I certainly was not one of those people. I, along with the rest of the country also thought the officiating was piss poor in that game too. Win or lose is not the issue....it's having more qualified refs on the field.

ZornToLargent
02-07-2006, 05:28 PM
These people can yap all they want as far as I am concerned. It just ruins the image of how the Seahawks are taking a loss.....
How is this any different on how Porter responded about the Colt game?

Piss poor officiating is piss poor officiating.....all NFL teams should want this changed, and complaining about it is not the problem....the officials in place are the problem.

ZornToLargent
02-07-2006, 05:30 PM
I really tire of talking about this topic so I will do it once more for some unbeknown reason ...

Yes the officiating in the NFL has been going downhill for the last few years now, yes we need full time officials who should be made to take refresher classes every off season to review the latest rules, and they should also be made to attend an X number of NFL team practices during training camp and the offseason to make sure everyone is on the same page.

The NFL officials have a very hard job to do, at the blink of eye they must make a call that is of the utmost importance. I dont envy them at all and dont want their jobs for anything really... but if the NFL is the biggest and best sports outfit in the world, then we need to take the initiative and bring on full time officials.

The cost of full time officials would be large, there is no doubt, and would have to be part of the new barganing agreement in some way Im sure...but thats why they are paid the big bucks up in New York offices of the NFL..to figure this out before it gets any worse.

Im not going to comment any more on the game, ive done that enough these last few days and anybody that has read my posts knows how I feel about the game itself.
Thanks BlitzburghRockCity...I agree 100% with you.

MNsteelers
02-07-2006, 05:31 PM
You can't tell me that the NFL can't afford to do this. I don't buy that.

They can. They just don't WANT to. And why should they? Is the Super Bowl still not the highest rated TV event every year? Is the NFL not still completely kicking the sh*t out of every other pro league in terms of popularity?

Think about it from the league's standpoint: Why would they bother spending that much more money on officiating if the worst press they get is on a few bad calls that everyone seems to forget about by the next kickoff? They're about to make a mint of Mike Holmgren's comments, and they'll fine the next guy to complain about it (unless they admit it was a poor call, like in Joey Porter's situation).

My point is that I just don't see the NFL thinking this is that big of a problem, because after about three months, the only people who are going to be thinking about the officiating of this game will be Seahawks fans. And judging by the crowd at Ford Field, they make up way less than 1/32nd of the fan support in the NFL.

tony hipchest
02-07-2006, 05:33 PM
You can't tell me that the NFL can't afford to do this. I don't buy that. you telling me the nfl big dogs and executives are gonna take a paycut or dip into their profit margin to make the average fan happy? thats not how it works in big business. so you boycot and quit buying season tickets. theres 10 people right behind you to purchas them.

8 games going to the nfl network next year in an attempt to get the nfl network carried by cable. raising the price of cable probably $5/ month. the executives get richer and the average fan gets poorer. its the american way.

MNsteelers
02-07-2006, 05:36 PM
you telling me the nfl big dogs and executives are gonna take a paycut or dip into their profit margin to make the average fan happy? thats not how it works in big business. so you boycot and quit buying season tickets. theres 10 people right behind you to purchas them.

8 games going to the nfl network next year in an attempt to get the nfl network carried by cable. raising the price of cable probably $5/ month. the executives get richer and the average fan gets poorer. its the american way.

Perfectly said. That's the issue here; it's not that they SHOULD have full-time officials, it's that from their standpoint, they really don't need to.

In looking around message boards around the league, everyone is freaking out about the officiating Sunday. Notice how no one with the exception of Steelers fans are even mentioning the atrocious job done by the refs in the Steelers/Indy game. Everyone else has already forgotten. Why spend money to fix a problem that an unrecognizable percentage of the football world wants fixed?

tony hipchest
02-07-2006, 05:37 PM
How is this any different on how Porter responded about the Colt game?

Piss poor officiating is piss poor officiating.....all NFL teams should want this changed, and complaining about it is not the problem....the officials in place are the problem.

its not the officials, its the rules they get PAID to enforce. ask a raider fan about the tuck rule.

dont hate the player (or official), hate the game

BlacknGold Bleeder
02-07-2006, 05:38 PM
Can you folks really tell me, especially after your Colts game and the SB, that there is nothing wrong with the state of officiating in the NFL?

If so, why haven't we ever seen out cries from around the country about this before?

It is certainly not just Seattle complaining....it is sport writers from all around the country...and we all know they are not all Seahawks fans.

I really wish, as NFL fans, you folks would support a referee over haul in the NFL. And realize how lop sided the calls were in the SB....just like they were in your Colts game. You saw it then, do you still see it from this last Sunday, or has the win clouded your judgment?

Yes, nothing will take your newest Lombardi trophy from Pittsburgh. Your team played won that game?.it?s over with. But, just as the calls were going unfairly against your team with the Colts, the same thing happened to the Seahawks in the Super Bowl. Yes, your team did enough to over compensate the piss poor officiating in the Colts game, and we did not in the Super Bowl?but none of that matters.

All that matters is in future years, the only thing to determine the outcome of a game, is the two teams playing the game.

The only thing taking away from our win is this incessant whining about the officals.
A penalty is a penalty. Breaking the plane is breaking the plane no matter how much of the ball breaks it!! Holding is holding. Hands off means no P.I.
Opinions are like a$$holes every one has one! These were all the refs opinions bottom line.
You keep saying congratulations but what about the calls. Know when to stop!!
If you want referee reform come back and talk about it in a couple of weeks or months!!
Quit qualifying your congratulations, I honestly believe you are above that.

ZornToLargent
02-07-2006, 05:44 PM
Perfectly said. That's the issue here; it's not that they SHOULD have full-time officials, it's that from their standpoint, they really don't need to.

In looking around message boards around the league, everyone is freaking out about the officiating Sunday. Notice how no one with the exception of Steelers fans are even mentioning the atrocious job done by the refs in the Steelers/Indy game. Everyone else has already forgotten. Why spend money to fix a problem that an unrecognizable percentage of the football world wants fixed?
Not me buddy....that bogus call is still in the forefront of my mind too. In fact....just about everyting I have read sites that as another reason why the refs in the NFL do a sub-par job....how all those calls seemed to be slanted towards the Colts.

ZornToLargent
02-07-2006, 05:52 PM
The only thing taking away from our win is this incessant whining about the officals.
A penalty is a penalty. Breaking the plane is breaking the plane no matter how much of the ball breaks it!! Holding is holding. Hands off means no P.I.
Opinions are like a$$holes every one has one! These were all the refs opinions bottom line.
You keep saying congratulations but what about the calls. Know when to stop!!
If you want referee reform come back and talk about it in a couple of weeks or months!!
Quit qualifying your congratulations, I honestly believe you are above that.
I am sorry to have offended you. That was not my intentions. I just thought, that a team who has also faced horrible officiating in the playoffs would understand the frustration around the rest of the league, and also want a change. I now realize that you do not want to talk about it for a few months. I feel, if we wait to discuss it until it is out of everyones minds, no one will remember how they felt and hence the problem will never get solved. Strike will the irons hot....and the iron is hot after this season.

MNsteelers
02-07-2006, 05:58 PM
Not me buddy....that bogus call is still in the forefront of my mind too. In fact....just about everyting I have read sites that as another reason why the refs in the NFL do a sub-par job....how all those calls seemed to be slanted towards the Colts.

Hey, how 'bout this:
The Steelers had the obvious "Win one for Jerome" motivational factor going into this game. Seattle can easily let that chip grow on its shoulder all off-season, convince themselves the media wanted Pittsburgh to win, and unleash that sense of disrespect on their opponents next year. Seriously. Motivation is the key ingredient to a Super Bowl championship. Holmgren can play the "no one respects us" card ALL next season, and if he needs help reinforcing that concept, he can show them a tape of what he percieves to be the poor officiating in this game. I don't think it was as bad as people were making it out to be, but if I'm Holmgren, that's what I'm doing all next season.

MNsteelers
02-07-2006, 06:00 PM
I am sorry to have offended you. That was not my intentions. I just thought, that a team who has also faced horrible officiating in the playoffs would understand the frustration around the rest of the league, and also want a change. I now realize that you do not want to talk about it for a few months. I feel, if we wait to discuss it until it is out of everyones minds, no one will remember how they felt and hence the problem will never get solved. Strike will the irons hot....and the iron is hot after this season.

No, I'm with you here, I understand where you're coming from. The only point I'm making is that the human element is never going to be perfected. It won't change. There's no hot iron right now, from the league's perspective. Pittsburgh and Seattle are not the first examples of teams making arguments about poor calls going against them, but they will probably be the last until early September, where we'll get into the same debate again with the same results. Apathy.

ZornToLargent
02-07-2006, 06:00 PM
Thanks MNsteelers...and thanks everyone else who reposnded.

tony hipchest
02-07-2006, 06:09 PM
Thanks MNsteelers...and thanks everyone else who reposnded.

no problem zorn. while we root for different teams we share 1 thing in common. our desire to see our team go out on top, and our love and passion for the nfl. (i will watch a cardinals/49ers game over any thing else not nfl) and unlike many fans i believe its better to make it to the bowl and lose rather than not making it at all. atleast the steelerfans and seahawkfans got one more week of watching their team play on sunday. and the hope and anticipation of your team actually winning it all is a good thing, even as heartbreaking as it can be.

hardwork
02-07-2006, 06:11 PM
The problem is that this review process has the refs over thinking, and over playing their role. They're not getting into the flow of the game and just making common sense calls. The perfect example of that was the call against Polamalu. That call was just plain nuts. Of course he caught the ball. Of course he had possession.

Koopa
02-07-2006, 07:21 PM
Not the point. Thanks, Koopa, but that is not the point of this thread.

well.......guess what i don't care and i wasn't responding to you, i was kinda following bb2w post, i don't give a shit about what seahawk fans are saying.......even though you are one of the few that are decent

Dook
02-07-2006, 08:08 PM
More times than not the officials make a call that I think is wrong but turns out 'they are right'. Sure they are wrong too and the big-game changing ones bother me but that is why we have instant replay. No one is going to get every call right every time.

What I think they should do is allow every play to be reviewed. Give each team 2 challenges, just like now, but allow the coach's to use them into the 2 minute warning, if they have any left. That way it's on the coach's to use them smartly.

Now there are plays that are unreviewable, like if an official blows a whistle thinking a play is over but it's not. I think those plays should be challengable as well, if reviewed and found to be an errant whistle then maybe the team can either choose to replay that down from the previous spot or take the ball where it is?

24seven
02-07-2006, 08:20 PM
It will never be a perfect world. Officiating is like politics.. Some people are going to hurrah for the guy in the stripes.. Others are going to hate.. There is no sence in trying to please everyone cuz it will never happen.. Even in a democratic society there is no possible way to get everyone to think and believe the same ways so everyone will be happy.. Same goes with officiating. EVeryone sees what they want to see and believes what they want to believe.. It's basically like religion too.. Either believe or not but no one can change your ways or your views.. no matter how frickin blind some may seem..:boxing:

Believe43
02-07-2006, 08:50 PM
Perhaps the true fact is that everyone complaining about the officiating caused calls that are sometimes overlooked by the officials to be called to the letter of the rule instead of letting the players play the game. The NFL backed the call on Jackson in the endzone, you can see the replay from behind and the official immediately goes for his flag but misses the first time and reaches again for it, he was calling it all the way. As for holding penalties they say they could be called on any play so if anything looks questionable when the refs are under such scrutiny they are going to call them.NFL also backed the holding call in the 4th quarter. As for Bens touchdown you can clearly see him be moved backwards after being hit while still in the air then landing just outside the goalline, close but that would suggest that he did cross the line. Not enough in the replay to overturn it. Besides the Steelers still had another down to get it in if they had ruled it down at the goal line. Just be glad that Ben had a bad game passing or it could have been worse for the Seahawks. If the refs or the NFL was out to go against the Seahawks they wouldnt have overturned the Hasselback fumble (they made the right call to reverse that one). The only bad penalty I seen called was the Hasselback tackle on the interception return. They did also miss a block in the back on the Seattle interception return, so spare the whining about the referees and get back to work to play better next time you get the chance.

Ambridge
02-07-2006, 08:57 PM
the only problem with full time refs is that the nfl would then be paying the same guys full salaries and for 5 days a week to make the same type of subjective judgement mistakes made on sunday.

how would a full time ref be able to judge if bens td run touched the line any better than a part timer???????

tony,I disagree with your statement.



I believe there should be full time officials for the simple reason that the majority of the present day officials have other jobs during the regular work week.
We're not talking easy jobs either.
Most of these guys are professional men.........lawyers, school administrators, business leaders, doctors.....etc.
There is no way in IMO that men with those kind of responsible positions who probably leave the better part of their concentration and observation skills at their real jobs are gonna have much left in the tank to officiate a highly athletic event like a pro football game.

Full time officials could be constantly having officiating clinics on how to better judge certain play scenarios, getting themselves into better physical condition, having film review and testing....etc...etc.
With the small investment of upgrading the quality of officiating the league insures both the integrity of the NFL and doesn't turn away their chief source of revenue which is the average fan.

PisnNapalm
02-07-2006, 09:40 PM
I think we're all forgetting how difficult the job is as well as how many calls are actually right.

We're demanding perfection from human beings. It will never happen. Ever.

Here's my 2 cents::

The PI call in the end zone looked like a push off to me by the wide out. Not a very hard one but enough to change the defenders direction. Hence, interference. Nit picky yes but a technically correct call.

The 15 yarder on Hasselbeck during the interception run back.... That one is iffy to me. Sort of looked like Taylor had a blocker ever so slightly in front of him, so even though Hasselbeck went for the tackle, he went low toward the knees of a blocker. Depends upon the ANGLE the ref saw it from.

The holding call... I dunno... The ref might have had a bad angle on it and just called what he could see.

Where was the non call on Ben being blocked in the back? hmmm?

Seattle had 77 total plays and Pittsburgh had 56. That's a total of 133. Take out the 4 "bad calls". If you assume the other 129 plays were called correctly then the refs got 97% correct. Isn't that usually a grade of A+?

I know I know... It's football not an exam, but... How much more can we ask of people?

These weren't absolutely glaring mis calls like the Polamalu interception or the "do over" from the Colts game. I honestly think a blind man could have made the right call on the interception.

anyway... I don't know how much full time refs would help the league. It can't hurt right? So I think they should atleast give it a shot. Do you need more refs on the field? Should you double the number of cameras at a game to get more and possibly better angles? I don't know....

What I do know is that this and It was said best by Mike Wilbon on PTI this evening. The question was did the poor officiating taint the Steeler's win? (I'll paraphrase essentially what he said) He said, No. It tainted the officials. Pittsburgh's win should not be diminished by something they could not control.

Stlrs4Life
02-07-2006, 09:44 PM
thought you might find this interesting.

http://www.tennessean.com/apps/pbcs....602070353/1027

Tuesday, 02/07/06

Fisher says refs get too much blame

By PAUL KUHARSKY
Staff Writer

Even his critics around the NFL admit that Titans Coach Jeff Fisher knows the rulebook as well as any of his peers.

Fisher, who is co-chairman of the NFL Competition Committee, conceded yesterday that the league had a tough weekend officiating-wise on Jan. 14-15 in the Divisional Playoffs. But he said he thinks much of the debate over officiating in Super Bowl XL was a result of the extensive media coverage of the game.

"When you have the amount of coverage that the game is getting in comparison to 10 years ago, they have to find more and more things to talk about," he said. "Because of the enormous amount of coverage the game is getting, the officiating is getting scrutinized now more so than it has in the past."

Fisher said a Super Bowl referee and crew want to call a penalty-free game, but know they can expect every call to be inspected and analyzed.

"People come back and say, 'You can call that in a lot of different situations where it's not called.' Well maybe it's not seen," he said.

The coach has served on the competition committee, which guides the league through rule changes and discusses ways to improve the game, since 2000. He's been co-chairman since 2001.

Fisher said he believes attention on officials increased early in the 2005 season when penalties were up. He said that in the end, however, those numbers basically evened out.

A supporter of the replay challenge system, Fisher pointed to a fourth-quarter play in the Super Bowl that was initially ruled a fumble but was overturned on replay review as a classic example of the system at its best.

"But we're not drawing attention to that," he said. "There are always going to be calls that are missed, there are always going to be great calls that are never highlighted. But there are always going to be issues with officiating. That's the human element and that's part of the game.

"I believe the officiating department at the league level has done everything it can to improve the quality of the department, through its grading criteria, through its teaching and evaluation process.

"When you compare officiating now to officiating five and 10 years ago, I believe we'd say the officiating has improved."

Fisher on some of the controversial calls in Super Bowl XL:

? Offensive pass interference against Seattle wide receiver Darrell Jackson that washed away a 16-yard touchdown catch: "Offensive pass interference is called when a receiver extends the arm and initiates contact resulting in separation between he and the defender. In my opinion that was the correct call. Now the difficulty with the call is you certainly can go in and look at other instances where there is separation where it's not called. Well, oftentimes it's not seen. But as the interpretation of the rule is concerned, that is offensive pass interference."

? Pittsburgh QB Ben Roethlisberger's touchdown plunge that was upheld by replay review: "The issue is not officiating, the issue is replay. The call went to review and because there was not indisputable evidence under the hood, the ruling on the field stood. Most times in a challenge situation that's going to be the case. It's not going to be reversed because there is not overwhelming, indisputable evidence.

"In the official's opinion the ball crossed the plane. We can't say based on the replays we got on the network feed that it didn't. Maybe it didn't, but you can't say that. It wasn't a situation where the ball ended up a yard short of the goal line and it was a disastrous type call. That was a very close call."

? Holding call against Seattle OT Sean Locklear that washed away an 18-yard pass: "By definition it's a hold. There is contact, there was a grab, there was restriction." ?

MNsteelers
02-08-2006, 09:23 AM
thought you might find this interesting.

http://www.tennessean.com/apps/pbcs....602070353/1027

Tuesday, 02/07/06

Fisher says refs get too much blame

By PAUL KUHARSKY
Staff Writer

Even his critics around the NFL admit that Titans Coach Jeff Fisher knows the rulebook as well as any of his peers.

Fisher, who is co-chairman of the NFL Competition Committee, conceded yesterday that the league had a tough weekend officiating-wise on Jan. 14-15 in the Divisional Playoffs. But he said he thinks much of the debate over officiating in Super Bowl XL was a result of the extensive media coverage of the game.

"When you have the amount of coverage that the game is getting in comparison to 10 years ago, they have to find more and more things to talk about," he said. "Because of the enormous amount of coverage the game is getting, the officiating is getting scrutinized now more so than it has in the past."

Fisher said a Super Bowl referee and crew want to call a penalty-free game, but know they can expect every call to be inspected and analyzed.

"People come back and say, 'You can call that in a lot of different situations where it's not called.' Well maybe it's not seen," he said.

The coach has served on the competition committee, which guides the league through rule changes and discusses ways to improve the game, since 2000. He's been co-chairman since 2001.

Fisher said he believes attention on officials increased early in the 2005 season when penalties were up. He said that in the end, however, those numbers basically evened out.

A supporter of the replay challenge system, Fisher pointed to a fourth-quarter play in the Super Bowl that was initially ruled a fumble but was overturned on replay review as a classic example of the system at its best.

"But we're not drawing attention to that," he said. "There are always going to be calls that are missed, there are always going to be great calls that are never highlighted. But there are always going to be issues with officiating. That's the human element and that's part of the game.

"I believe the officiating department at the league level has done everything it can to improve the quality of the department, through its grading criteria, through its teaching and evaluation process.

"When you compare officiating now to officiating five and 10 years ago, I believe we'd say the officiating has improved."

Fisher on some of the controversial calls in Super Bowl XL:

? Offensive pass interference against Seattle wide receiver Darrell Jackson that washed away a 16-yard touchdown catch: "Offensive pass interference is called when a receiver extends the arm and initiates contact resulting in separation between he and the defender. In my opinion that was the correct call. Now the difficulty with the call is you certainly can go in and look at other instances where there is separation where it's not called. Well, oftentimes it's not seen. But as the interpretation of the rule is concerned, that is offensive pass interference."

? Pittsburgh QB Ben Roethlisberger's touchdown plunge that was upheld by replay review: "The issue is not officiating, the issue is replay. The call went to review and because there was not indisputable evidence under the hood, the ruling on the field stood. Most times in a challenge situation that's going to be the case. It's not going to be reversed because there is not overwhelming, indisputable evidence.

"In the official's opinion the ball crossed the plane. We can't say based on the replays we got on the network feed that it didn't. Maybe it didn't, but you can't say that. It wasn't a situation where the ball ended up a yard short of the goal line and it was a disastrous type call. That was a very close call."

? Holding call against Seattle OT Sean Locklear that washed away an 18-yard pass: "By definition it's a hold. There is contact, there was a grab, there was restriction." ?

Fisher makes very good points. He's obviously a highly respected member of the coaching fraternity and a senior member on the most important NFL committee. The questions regarding the officials really come down to spirit of the law vs. letter of the law. Darryl Jackson's arm CLEARLY locks (meaning it goes straight with his hand touching the defender). By the book, this is pushing off. JUST BECAUSE THEY DON'T USUALLY CALL IT DOESN'T MEAN IT ISN'T A PENALTY.

If you look at the angle of the official who called Hasselbeck's chop block, it's really hard to determine who is in front; the returner with the ball (Ike) or the blocker (don't know who it was off the top of my head). From that angle, you can see why he might have called the chop block. It clearly wasn't, as Hasselbeck hit the ball carrier. But that penalty did not lead to any Seattle points, nor did it take any away from them. It's not the officials' problem that Seattle's secondary bit on a play EVERYONE IN THE FRIGGEN STADIUM knew was coming. Pittsburgh made bigger plays when they had to. Seattle didn't. If their only crutch is the officiating, well, then too bad. A loss is a loss. But more importantly, our fifth ring is coming.

tony hipchest
02-08-2006, 09:50 AM
tony,I disagree with your statement.



I believe there should be full time officials for the simple reason that the majority of the present day officials have other jobs during the regular work week.
We're not talking easy jobs either.
Most of these guys are professional men.........lawyers, school administrators, business leaders, doctors.....etc.
There is no way in IMO that men with those kind of responsible positions who probably leave the better part of their concentration and observation skills at their real jobs are gonna have much left in the tank to officiate a highly athletic event like a pro football game.

Full time officials could be constantly having officiating clinics on how to better judge certain play scenarios, getting themselves into better physical condition, having film review and testing....etc...etc.
With the small investment of upgrading the quality of officiating the league insures both the integrity of the NFL and doesn't turn away their chief source of revenue which is the average fan.those are some great points especially with the nature of these officials full time jobs. it makes you wonder how much time they actually spend studying the game. i still think judgement errors would be made but possibly minimized. i dont think losing average fans is a concern. as much money as the nfl spends promoting itself and with all these new tv deals they should be able to explore the option of atleast having full time crew leaders or replay officials. that atleast would be a start. maybe there will be a change once the labor agreement is reached.