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polamalubeast
05-03-2010, 04:09 PM
Why Bruce Arians Is the Pittsburgh Steelers' True Achilles' Heel
by David Law Correspondent Written on May 02, 2010
Gregory Shamus/Getty Images The four-to six-game suspension handed down to Ben Roethlisberger by NFL Commissioner Roger Goodell will hamper the franchiseís attempt to return to prominence in the AFC.

The Steelersí defense should return to form with the return of cornerback Bryant McFadden and the healthy status of Troy Polamalu and Aaron Smith. If the defense can play close to the level of their 2008 season, then opposing offenses have something to worry about.

The Steelersí offense is another matter.

Roethlisberger will miss at least the first four games, and possibly more. Star receiver Santonio Holmes was traded to the Jets after running afoul of the NFLís substance abuse policy.

But neither of those two developments represent as much of a handicap to the teamís offense as does the continued presence of Bruce Arians in the role of offensive coordinator.

Arians has orchestrated an offensive metamorphosis that has seen the Steelers evolve from a team that runs effectively to set up the pass into a team that thinks pass first and run second.

In so doing, Arians has changed the teamís identity.

Arians refuses to utilize a fullback in his offense, instead occasionally slipping in a backup tight end such as Sean McHugh or David Johnson. Any confusion about Ariansí feelings regarding fullbacks were clarified in this quote from him prior to last season: ďI don't have a fullback. There's no fullback in my offense, there's never going to be one.Ē

So the Steelers slowly graduated into a team that passes first and runs second. But in that process the Steelers seem to have lost the ability to turn to a power running game when needed.

Short-yardage conversions have become nail-biting time for Steeler fans who were accustomed to seeing Jerome Bettis power over the middle behind a crushing block by fullback Dan Kreider. Bettis and Kreider are gone now, and with them went some of the Steelersí swagger.

The Steelers have a competent running back in Rashard Mendenhall, but he is rarely given a sufficient number of carries to get into a complete rhythm. Too often he seems to have to deal with an opposing linebacker before he even reaches the line of scrimmage. Those spin moves that sometimes frustrate fans are too often out of necessity as he ad libs a move to beat a defender before he can even hit the hole.

So if Arians has moved Pittsburgh in the direction of a passing-oriented offense, he must have lots of trick plays in his repertoire, right? Unfortunately, no.

In fact, predictability has become a hallmark of this team.

Rarely do we see the option passes or gadget plays that former coach Bill Cowher so enjoyed unleashing on unsuspecting defenses. Not only that, but Arians seems adverse to incorporating misdirection plays or screen passes, both of which work against defenses salivating at the prospect of sacking Roethlisberger yet again.

When Roethlisberger was unable to start against the Baltimore Ravens last year in Week 12, backup Dennis Dixon was forced to take the start with very little practice time. Dixon is a remarkable athlete: a quick-footed, elusive runner with that ability to break containment and keep a defense guessing.

Unfortunately, Arians seemed committed to keeping Dixon in the pocket instead of employing roll-outs, and Arians had no answer for the defensive adjustments Baltimore made at halftime.

The loss in Baltimore seemed to sum up one of Arians' defining characteristics: his insistence on making players fit his system instead of adjusting his system to fit his players.

So an offensive line thatís better at run-blocking is forced to pass-block. A fragile quarterback who gets sacked more than 50 times a season? Keep dropping him back with little protection and hope for the best.

Does your offense feature a running back in Willie Parker whose strength is turning the corner or going off-tackle? Run him up the gut on first down and hope for the best. Got a QB like Dixon who needs to get outside the box to be most effective? Keep him inside the pocket and hope for the best.

Does anyone see a pattern here?

Ariansí stubbornness is putting the success of the franchise at risk. Yes, the Steelers have won the Super Bowl with Arians as OC, but they won despite Arians, not because of him.

They won thanks to a strong defense and a once-in-a-generation quarterback who frequently made things happen on broken plays. Roethlisberger always seems most effective running a hurry-up offense, where he calls the plays at the line of scrimmage instead of having them called in by Arians.

If the Steelers are my reality show, the first one that I am voting off the island is Bruce Arians.

pete74
05-03-2010, 04:17 PM
i dont know what that writer means when he says "an offensive line who is better and run blocking is being forced to pass block." Our offensive line was horrible as run blocking last year

wootawnee
05-03-2010, 04:29 PM
Send him back to the Brownies.....

Tone's Toes
05-03-2010, 04:38 PM
I don't like BA, but I think the NFL has changed and you have to throw the ball to win. I don't think you'll win by running the ball all the time anymore. You just need to be able to run the ball enough to keep teams honest and run some time off in the 4th quarter, but that's it. We don't have an O-Line capable of running it down your throat in the 4th quarter, though.

Dino 6 Rings
05-03-2010, 04:45 PM
:deadhorse:

Sweet! A fresh Bash Bruce Thread!!! I'm so happy :applaudit:

Sharkissle29
05-03-2010, 05:04 PM
I don't like BA, but I think the NFL has changed and you have to throw the ball to win. I don't think you'll win by running the ball all the time anymore. You just need to be able to run the ball enough to keep teams honest and run some time off in the 4th quarter, but that's it. We don't have an O-Line capable of running it down your throat in the 4th quarter, though.

How often did the jets pass with sanchez?

its still a winning formula....just not as popular

fansince'76
05-03-2010, 05:15 PM
How often did the jets pass with sanchez?

its still a winning formula....just not as popular

It helps when teams like the Colts lay down and let you back into the postseason too....

Sharkissle29
05-03-2010, 05:20 PM
It helps when teams like the Colts lay down and let you back into the postseason too....

you just had to remind me....lol, that sucked

Prok
05-03-2010, 05:25 PM
I don't like BA, but I think the NFL has changed and you have to throw the ball to win. I don't think you'll win by running the ball all the time anymore. You just need to be able to run the ball enough to keep teams honest and run some time off in the 4th quarter, but that's it. We don't have an O-Line capable of running it down your throat in the 4th quarter, though.

Good post. To me, it's never been about the run to pass ratio. I think it's a big mistake thinking our problems are that simple.

It's allllll about the predictability and play-calling imo.

And I do agree that our offense is wayyyyyyy more effective when Ben runs the no-huddle. But noooooooo we're too stubborn to let it happen. We could be even better than the K-gun that Buffalo ran back in the day IMO.

California-Steel
05-03-2010, 05:25 PM
its still a winning formula....just not as popularThis comment is right on the mark. Too bad a lot of these young-ens like the flash over the tried and true.

St33lersguy
05-03-2010, 05:37 PM
i dont know what that writer means when he says "an offensive line who is better and run blocking is being forced to pass block." Our offensive line was horrible as run blocking last year

Not really, Mendy got 1000 yards last season despite limited carries. He also had some great games and a good YPC, part of that is the Oline

Sharkissle29
05-03-2010, 05:39 PM
This comment is right on the mark. Too bad a lot of these young-ens like the flash over the tried and true.

The direction of the NFL has really been pissing me off. What ever happened to teams having a tough defense and a strong running game? I'd much rather watch that type of game, than an air show with the likes of the saints, pats, colts, etc.

Im only 22, and i already miss smashmouth football. Dont even know how the older folks on here feel about the NFL these days, i'd imagine they're more pissed than i am.

i dunno tho, to each their own i guess. some people like high scoring...

Edman
05-03-2010, 06:23 PM
As we've dutifully seen last year, the Bruce Arians offense racks up a lot of yardage, but doesn't put up a lot of points. How many times last year have we've seen the Steelers outgain opponents and dominate the TOP, but still come up short on the scoreboard? Because our Offense couldn't score the points when it mattered. It was amazing how many times the Steelers offense started out hot, then went near cold in the second half. Like a reverse 2008. Our hardly effective offense did little to comphensate for a Defense that couldn't close out games.

The 2009 Steelers had a 4000 yard passer and a 1000 yard rusher, but they were 12th in the league in scoring. That's barely above average.

tube517
05-03-2010, 06:45 PM
he did the same thing with the Stains. Lots of offense..couldn't score when they needed to. The 3rd down pct was below avg. They don't need a 60/40 run to pass ratio but they need a good balance. And they need to keep Mendy fresh and not run him into the ground. This is where Dwyer needs to stop up.

As we've dutifully seen last year, the Bruce Arians offense racks up a lot of yardage, but doesn't put up a lot of points. How many times last year have we've seen the Steelers outgain opponents and dominate the TOP, but still come up short on the scoreboard? Because our Offense couldn't score the points when it mattered. It was amazing how many times the Steelers offense started out hot, then went near cold in the second half. Like a reverse 2008. Our hardly effective offense did little to comphensate for a Defense that couldn't close out games.

The 2009 Steelers had a 4000 yard passer and a 1000 yard rusher, but they were 12th in the league in scoring. That's barely above average.

Chidi29
05-03-2010, 07:34 PM
Why Bruce Arians Is the Pittsburgh Steelers' True Achilles' Heel
by David Law Correspondent Written on May 02, 2010
Gregory Shamus/Getty Images The four-to six-game suspension handed down to Ben Roethlisberger by NFL Commissioner Roger Goodell will hamper the franchise’s attempt to return to prominence in the AFC.

The Steelers’ defense should return to form with the return of cornerback Bryant McFadden and the healthy status of Troy Polamalu and Aaron Smith. If the defense can play close to the level of their 2008 season, then opposing offenses have something to worry about.

The Steelers’ offense is another matter.

Roethlisberger will miss at least the first four games, and possibly more. Star receiver Santonio Holmes was traded to the Jets after running afoul of the NFL’s substance abuse policy.

But neither of those two developments represent as much of a handicap to the team’s offense as does the continued presence of Bruce Arians in the role of offensive coordinator.

Arians has orchestrated an offensive metamorphosis that has seen the Steelers evolve from a team that runs effectively to set up the pass into a team that thinks pass first and run second.

In so doing, Arians has changed the team’s identity.

Arians refuses to utilize a fullback in his offense, instead occasionally slipping in a backup tight end such as Sean McHugh or David Johnson. Any confusion about Arians’ feelings regarding fullbacks were clarified in this quote from him prior to last season: “I don't have a fullback. There's no fullback in my offense, there's never going to be one.”

So the Steelers slowly graduated into a team that passes first and runs second. But in that process the Steelers seem to have lost the ability to turn to a power running game when needed.

Short-yardage conversions have become nail-biting time for Steeler fans who were accustomed to seeing Jerome Bettis power over the middle behind a crushing block by fullback Dan Kreider. Bettis and Kreider are gone now, and with them went some of the Steelers’ swagger.

The Steelers have a competent running back in Rashard Mendenhall, but he is rarely given a sufficient number of carries to get into a complete rhythm. Too often he seems to have to deal with an opposing linebacker before he even reaches the line of scrimmage. Those spin moves that sometimes frustrate fans are too often out of necessity as he ad libs a move to beat a defender before he can even hit the hole.

So if Arians has moved Pittsburgh in the direction of a passing-oriented offense, he must have lots of trick plays in his repertoire, right? Unfortunately, no.

In fact, predictability has become a hallmark of this team.

Rarely do we see the option passes or gadget plays that former coach Bill Cowher so enjoyed unleashing on unsuspecting defenses. Not only that, but Arians seems adverse to incorporating misdirection plays or screen passes, both of which work against defenses salivating at the prospect of sacking Roethlisberger yet again.

When Roethlisberger was unable to start against the Baltimore Ravens last year in Week 12, backup Dennis Dixon was forced to take the start with very little practice time. Dixon is a remarkable athlete: a quick-footed, elusive runner with that ability to break containment and keep a defense guessing.

Unfortunately, Arians seemed committed to keeping Dixon in the pocket instead of employing roll-outs, and Arians had no answer for the defensive adjustments Baltimore made at halftime.

The loss in Baltimore seemed to sum up one of Arians' defining characteristics: his insistence on making players fit his system instead of adjusting his system to fit his players.

So an offensive line that’s better at run-blocking is forced to pass-block. A fragile quarterback who gets sacked more than 50 times a season? Keep dropping him back with little protection and hope for the best.

Does your offense feature a running back in Willie Parker whose strength is turning the corner or going off-tackle? Run him up the gut on first down and hope for the best. Got a QB like Dixon who needs to get outside the box to be most effective? Keep him inside the pocket and hope for the best.

Does anyone see a pattern here?

Arians’ stubbornness is putting the success of the franchise at risk. Yes, the Steelers have won the Super Bowl with Arians as OC, but they won despite Arians, not because of him.

They won thanks to a strong defense and a once-in-a-generation quarterback who frequently made things happen on broken plays. Roethlisberger always seems most effective running a hurry-up offense, where he calls the plays at the line of scrimmage instead of having them called in by Arians.

If the Steelers are my reality show, the first one that I am voting off the island is Bruce Arians.

Ditto with whoever else said it. Another bashing-Arians thread, big-woop. But for old times sake, didn't get to do much on the topic on these boards, I'll break it down.

Arians has orchestrated an offensive metamorphosis that has seen the Steelers evolve from a team that runs effectively to set up the pass into a team that thinks pass first and run second.

In so doing, Arians has changed the team’s identity.

Point being?

People act as if we've never evolved before and are still using the same single-wing formation from our first days of a franchise.

You guys do realize that if we would have never changed our mindset, we'd stilll be running a 4-3. And maybe we don't win our last two super bowls. Who knows.

Heck, even Dan Rooney has talked about the need to evolve and change as the game does. Pieces from his book from the chapter entitled "The Game is Changing, Dad"

"The Cleveland Browns, coached by Paul Brown, had pioneered a new pass offense, one that confounded opponents and wowed the fans." (pg. 66)

"[The Browns] shouldn't have taken us by surprise, but they did. They never stopped passing. They went on to beat us 41-31, but the game was never close." (pg. 67}

"When we got home to Pittsburgh I told my father all about what I had seen in Cleveland. 'The game's changing, Dad,' I aid, 'and we've got to change, too!" {pg. 68}

"But change came hard for the Steelers." {pg. 68)

"In 1954 Dad brought back [Walter Kiesling]." "They were a conserative bunch. It seemed like every play was right up the middle. Bob Drum of the Pittsburgh Press invented a little ditty that he'd sing in the press box at the start of every Steelers game:

Hi-diddle-diddle, it's Rogel up the midde.

Kies was as predictable as the Pittsburgh streetcar schedule. And it was true: every team in the league knew running back Fran Rogel was coming up the middle." We didn't need to outsmart or outmaneuver the other team - we'd drive straight ahead and overpower them with Pittsburgh-style football." (pg. 69)

"[Dad] pressed [Kiesling] to try a pass on the first play of the game.
"Look Kies", he said, "I just want you to throw on first down."
The coach resisted. "No, you don't throw the ball on first down!"
"But Dad insisted..." {pg. 69)

Pittsburgh quarterback Jack Scarbath faked to Rogel, dropped back, and fired a long pass to Goose McClaren, who caught the ball and streaked fown the field for an 80 yard touchdown. But the refs called the Steelers offsides, and the ball came back. Kiesling reverted to his old routine, and on the next play Rogel ploughed up the middle for a one-yard gain.
Drum chanted, "Hi-diddle-diddle, Rogel up the middle." (pg. 70)

Point being, you have to be willing to evolve with the game in order to keep up.

Arians refuses to utilize a fullback in his offense, instead occasionally slipping in a backup tight end such as Sean McHugh or David Johnson. Any confusion about Arians’ feelings regarding fullbacks were clarified in this quote from him prior to last season: “I don't have a fullback. There's no fullback in my offense, there's never going to be one.”

As I stated in another thread, Arians is using a fullback. He has played McHugh and Johnson, along with Legursky in goalline situations, in that spot.

Are they true fullbacks? No although Johnson's blocking has come along.

Is that Arians' fault? No. He isn't the one making the personnel decisions. If Tomlin or Colbert really wanted a blocking fullback, they would have brought one in. Instead, we got Carey Davis, Billy Latsko, and Frank Summers a runner more than a blocker. Arians does not have authority over Tomlin or Colbert. He is not holding them hostage. If we really wanted a blocking fullback, we would have gotten one. But they are tough to find and being phased out in the NFL (Going back to evolving with the game) reason being we haven't brought any in.

Short-yardage conversions have become nail-biting time for Steeler fans who were accustomed to seeing Jerome Bettis power over the middle behind a crushing block by fullback Dan Kreider. Bettis and Kreider are gone now, and with them went some of the Steelers’ swagger.

While I agree that our short-yardage siituation is an issue, this again does not fall just on the shoulders of Arians. He has certainly tried to power his way through and we have simply had more success through the air on 3rd and short. Mendenhall's conversion rate on 3rd and short was actually worse than Parker's and Moore's. And again, if you want to get yourself back to the old days of smashmouth football, you have to bring those guys in. We didn't have that last year. Not Arians fault.

The Steelers have a competent running back in Rashard Mendenhall, but he is rarely given a sufficient number of carries to get into a complete rhythm.

Excluding the first couple weeks when he was the backup, Mendenhall averaged 20 touches a game. Plenty of work for him.

In fact, predictability has become a hallmark of this team.

Rarely do we see the option passes or gadget plays that former coach Bill Cowher so enjoyed unleashing on unsuspecting defenses. Not only that, but Arians seems adverse to incorporating misdirection plays or screen passes, both of which work against defenses salivating at the prospect of sacking Roethlisberger yet again.

I had no idea the only way to be unpredictable was to use a trick play. Guess the Colts are really predictable. How often do they use trickery?

And as a side note, Mewelde Moore did throw a TD pass to Heath Miller against the Chargers last year.

The claim that we don't use screen passes is an outright lie. We run tons of WR screens, usually opening up games with one or two.

So the Steelers slowly graduated into a team that passes first and runs second. But in that process the Steelers seem to have lost the ability to turn to a power running game when needed.

We are a top eight team in terms of balance, including ranked second in the league in balance on first down last season. Look at the following link for the whole breakdown by yours truly.

http://boards.espn.go.com/boards/mb/mb?sport=nfl&id=pit&tid=6230409&tsn=21

Unfortunately, Arians seemed committed to keeping Dixon in the pocket instead of employing roll-outs, and Arians had no answer for the defensive adjustments Baltimore made at halftime.

Arians told Dixon to tell him the 15 plays he was most comfortable with. Maybe those gadget plays wasn't one of them.It was a bad enough situation as it was. Doing things Dixon wasn't comfortable with would have compounded the problem.

So an offensive line that’s better at run-blocking is forced to pass-block. A fragile quarterback who gets sacked more than 50 times a season? Keep dropping him back with little protection and hope for the best.

Yeah, I've heard it all when it comes to what aspect of the line we're better in. Arians-haters are so wishy-washy when it comes to deciding on what to dislike about him. I have a whole group of comments from another forum that illustrates that fact and can post it if you'd like me to.

And let's face it, Ben needs to be a better decision maker. I've documented many instances where he needs to get the ball out of his hands quicker. Others have done the same and once again, I can post those examples if you wish.

If the Steelers are my reality show, the first one that I am voting off the island is Bruce Arians.

*Enter equally witty finishing line here* Yeah, I got nothing. I'll just let everything else speak for itself instead of resorting to titles that play along with a player's season-ending injury. Classy Mr. Law.

When it comes to what we had last year, a franchise QB, two super bowl MVPs at WR, a newly paid TE, and an emerging rookie in Mike Wallace, it would have been dumb not to pass.

Hi-diddle-diddle it's Mendenhall up the middle.

There's my witty last line!

***It should be known that I realize Arians is not the greatest OC ever. Far from it and he has benefited greatly from the talent he has inheritied. And has he made mistakes. Of course, multiple of them. Especially early in the year against the Titans. He had one play where Frank, DJ, and Parker were all in the backfield. Frank and DJ blocked left while the run went to the right. Huh? That totally defeated the purpose of that Full House package.

There was another killer against Baltimore. If memory serves, it was the play before the Dixon INT that effectively ended the game. We had done a great job of hat-on-a-hat blocking all night. Really surprised and impressed me (And Tomlin). But Arians the decides to pull Ramon Foster, who was inexperienced and bad at pulling, and the play goes for little to nothing. Next play, Dixon gets picked by Kruger. Argh!

And in general, we need to score more point per game. We have the ball too often and have too potent of an offense to put up numbers comparable to what Whiz did.

My point is that Arians is and will be the first guy to change our mindset from "Smashmouth football! USA! USA!" to a more wide-open attack. And with that, will come a lot of backlash. It's a tough tradition to shake, I understand that. I've always referred to him as our "Teen Years" guy. The guy that will make the transition from one mindset to the other. And along the way, there will be bumps in the road. No doubt about it.

It's about understanding every point of view and the reasons for these change. If that happens, maybe Arians will be allowed to stay on the island without fearing of being surrounded by spears every moment.

Steeldude
05-03-2010, 07:39 PM
al davis would love arians.

HometownGal
05-03-2010, 07:41 PM
:deadhorse:

Sweet! A fresh Bash Bruce Thread!!! I'm so happy :applaudit:

YAY! :cheer:

NOT. :banging:

TC hasn't even begun yet and the B&M brigade is in full force. If the guy had the top rated O and that O played a huge role in the Steelers winning the SB this season, the BA haters would create something to stone him for. :rolleyes:

polamalubeast
05-03-2010, 08:24 PM
As we've dutifully seen last year, the Bruce Arians offense racks up a lot of yardage, but doesn't put up a lot of points. How many times last year have we've seen the Steelers outgain opponents and dominate the TOP, but still come up short on the scoreboard? Because our Offense couldn't score the points when it mattered. It was amazing how many times the Steelers offense started out hot, then went near cold in the second half. Like a reverse 2008. Our hardly effective offense did little to comphensate for a Defense that couldn't close out games.

The 2009 Steelers had a 4000 yard passer and a 1000 yard rusher, but they were 12th in the league in scoring. That's barely above average.

Because the defense has not cause many turnovers in 2009

mesaSteeler
05-03-2010, 10:08 PM
al davis would love arians.

Al Davis can have him with my blessing. After that Cleveland game last year I have no respect or confidence in BA. The sooner he is gone the happier I will be.

Preacher
05-04-2010, 02:09 AM
CONGRATULATIONS!!!

This thread is the first winner of the weekly (come September, probably daily) Dead Horse Award!

http://www.sdplastics.com/dedhorse.gif

HometownGal
05-04-2010, 05:29 AM
CONGRATULATIONS!!!

This thread is the first winner of the weekly (come September, probably daily) Dead Horse Award!

http://www.sdplastics.com/dedhorse.gif

:applaudit::hatsoff::applaudit:

Not to fret, Father. This forum won't be turned into another BA bash fest the way it was last season and we'll do what we did with the Ben bashing threads - merge 'em together so they are all in one big happy family! :drink:

Prok
05-04-2010, 08:32 AM
I don't think it's so much beating a dead horse as it is voicing frustrations with the guy.

Where else can we Steelers fans voice our frustrations ?

I think Chidi nailed it with that EXCELLENT post on the subject though.

I still can't understand all the loyalty to "smashmouth football."

But I don't see anything wrong with us debating over BA. And let's face it, when this many fans have frustrations there is usually a worthy reason.

Am I the only one thinking along these lines ?

Third Rail
05-04-2010, 09:29 AM
It's a winning formula... that ends in a playoff choke. See the Jets and the Ravens for details. You could even throw the Chargers in there too, because despite having a Top 10 (some say Top 5) quarterback, they kept trying to run the ball with an over-the-hill LaDanian Tomlinson.

The key to a good offense is balance. Ben shouldn't have to throw on every down. However, refusing to let him throw except on third down, I think, puts even more pressure on him because he's essentially got ONE shot not to screw things up.

That being said, I absolutely HATE Bruce Arians and think he should lose his job if the Steelers miss the playoffs.

wootawnee
05-04-2010, 09:49 AM
He gets too flustered at the goaline.........You gatta be cool to take the lead.............Fluster your way outta here...........Brownie......

Dino 6 Rings
05-04-2010, 09:55 AM
he he he he he he he he ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho he he he ha ha ha he he


here it comes...

Cleveland 13, Pittsburgh 6

"Roethlisberger went 18 of 32 for 201 yards. He had trouble throwing in the swirling winds that consistently blew over 20 mph and the Steelers were never able to establish their running game against the Browns' defense, which came in ranked 32nd overall."

HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA

poke poke poke poke

zulater
05-04-2010, 10:07 AM
One thing we know for sure, Bruce will sink or swim on his own steam this year. Ben vouching for him or insisting upon his retention would be more anchor than lifeline next time around. http://draftsteel.com/ff/images/smilies/sinking.gif



:chuckle:

Third Rail
05-04-2010, 10:10 AM
he he he he he he he he ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho he he he ha ha ha he he


here it comes...

Cleveland 13, Pittsburgh 6

"Roethlisberger went 18 of 32 for 201 yards. He had trouble throwing in the swirling winds that consistently blew over 20 mph and the Steelers were never able to establish their running game against the Browns' defense, which came in ranked 32nd overall."

HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA

poke poke poke poke

Ugh. Don't remind me. I was so excited to see the Steelers playing on Thursday Night Football (because really, other than league gossip that you can find everywhere else, what else is the NFL Network good for?) and I ended up turning it off halfway through. I walked down the street to a local coffee shop and read a book just to keep myself from turning the game on again.

Chidi29
05-04-2010, 04:47 PM
How often did the jets pass with sanchez?

its still a winning formula....just not as popular

And both the Colts and Saints got to or won the Super Bowl through the air. You could play that game all day.

You create your mindset based on the players you have. And last year, we were clearly suited to pass more often than we have before.

mikeyg
05-04-2010, 05:43 PM
Why Bruce Arians Is the Pittsburgh Steelers' True Achilles' Heel
by David Law Correspondent Written on May 02, 2010
Gregory Shamus/Getty Images The four-to six-game suspension handed down to Ben Roethlisberger by NFL Commissioner Roger Goodell will hamper the franchiseís attempt to return to prominence in the AFC.

The Steelersí defense should return to form with the return of cornerback Bryant McFadden and the healthy status of Troy Polamalu and Aaron Smith. If the defense can play close to the level of their 2008 season, then opposing offenses have something to worry about.

The Steelersí offense is another matter.

Roethlisberger will miss at least the first four games, and possibly more. Star receiver Santonio Holmes was traded to the Jets after running afoul of the NFLís substance abuse policy.

But neither of those two developments represent as much of a handicap to the teamís offense as does the continued presence of Bruce Arians in the role of offensive coordinator.

Arians has orchestrated an offensive metamorphosis that has seen the Steelers evolve from a team that runs effectively to set up the pass into a team that thinks pass first and run second.

In so doing, Arians has changed the teamís identity.

Arians refuses to utilize a fullback in his offense, instead occasionally slipping in a backup tight end such as Sean McHugh or David Johnson. Any confusion about Ariansí feelings regarding fullbacks were clarified in this quote from him prior to last season: ďI don't have a fullback. There's no fullback in my offense, there's never going to be one.Ē

So the Steelers slowly graduated into a team that passes first and runs second. But in that process the Steelers seem to have lost the ability to turn to a power running game when needed.

Short-yardage conversions have become nail-biting time for Steeler fans who were accustomed to seeing Jerome Bettis power over the middle behind a crushing block by fullback Dan Kreider. Bettis and Kreider are gone now, and with them went some of the Steelersí swagger.

The Steelers have a competent running back in Rashard Mendenhall, but he is rarely given a sufficient number of carries to get into a complete rhythm. Too often he seems to have to deal with an opposing linebacker before he even reaches the line of scrimmage. Those spin moves that sometimes frustrate fans are too often out of necessity as he ad libs a move to beat a defender before he can even hit the hole.

So if Arians has moved Pittsburgh in the direction of a passing-oriented offense, he must have lots of trick plays in his repertoire, right? Unfortunately, no.

In fact, predictability has become a hallmark of this team.

Rarely do we see the option passes or gadget plays that former coach Bill Cowher so enjoyed unleashing on unsuspecting defenses. Not only that, but Arians seems adverse to incorporating misdirection plays or screen passes, both of which work against defenses salivating at the prospect of sacking Roethlisberger yet again.

When Roethlisberger was unable to start against the Baltimore Ravens last year in Week 12, backup Dennis Dixon was forced to take the start with very little practice time. Dixon is a remarkable athlete: a quick-footed, elusive runner with that ability to break containment and keep a defense guessing.

Unfortunately, Arians seemed committed to keeping Dixon in the pocket instead of employing roll-outs, and Arians had no answer for the defensive adjustments Baltimore made at halftime.

The loss in Baltimore seemed to sum up one of Arians' defining characteristics: his insistence on making players fit his system instead of adjusting his system to fit his players.

So an offensive line thatís better at run-blocking is forced to pass-block. A fragile quarterback who gets sacked more than 50 times a season? Keep dropping him back with little protection and hope for the best.

Does your offense feature a running back in Willie Parker whose strength is turning the corner or going off-tackle? Run him up the gut on first down and hope for the best. Got a QB like Dixon who needs to get outside the box to be most effective? Keep him inside the pocket and hope for the best.

Does anyone see a pattern here?

Ariansí stubbornness is putting the success of the franchise at risk. Yes, the Steelers have won the Super Bowl with Arians as OC, but they won despite Arians, not because of him.

They won thanks to a strong defense and a once-in-a-generation quarterback who frequently made things happen on broken plays. Roethlisberger always seems most effective running a hurry-up offense, where he calls the plays at the line of scrimmage instead of having them called in by Arians.

If the Steelers are my reality show, the first one that I am voting off the island is Bruce Arians.



I SO hoped BA would have been canned when all the stories floated in January. Tomlin is to blame as well. BA has only succeeded BECAUSE of BEN - we win in SPITE OF BA. He is an uncreative, dull, hardheaded dolt.

that's about all i have to say.

steel9guy
05-04-2010, 08:09 PM
CONGRATULATIONS!!!

This thread is the first winner of the weekly (come September, probably daily) Dead Horse Award!

http://www.sdplastics.com/dedhorse.gif

haha I haven't seen a BA thread since January. Can't wait to see the board at the start of the season.

HometownGal
05-04-2010, 08:15 PM
haha I haven't seen a BA thread since January. Can't wait to see the board at the start of the season.

You most likely missed my last post in this thread, but trust me when I tell ya - the BA threads won't take over the Steelers forum as they did last season. They will all be merged together just as the bash Ben threads were and the misery can love its own company. :chuckle: :thumbsup:

DanRooney
05-05-2010, 12:31 AM
I don't want to turn into a run first team. For the first 4 weeks with Dixon, sure. But not with a QB of Ben's caliber in the backfield. What we do need to though is improve our short yardage running game. Roethlisberger going into shotgun on 3rd and 2 is ridiculous (nearly every single time last year). If we can get first downs on those situations by running the ball, it'll keep defenses off balance.

revefsreleets
05-05-2010, 10:26 AM
(sigh)
Bruce Arians hunting season gets longer every year.

Anyway, I heard he was 100% for sure fired....every year....for the past 3 years....

solardave
05-05-2010, 10:33 AM
I don't like BA, but I think the NFL has changed and you have to throw the ball to win. I don't think you'll win by running the ball all the time anymore. You just need to be able to run the ball enough to keep teams honest and run some time off in the 4th quarter, but that's it. We don't have an O-Line capable of running it down your throat in the 4th quarter, though.

We know we can throw the ball. What we can't do is close out games using in their face running.Smash mouth like Jerome used to call it. We lost at least 2 games because of it last year. I don't care if we throw first as long as we can close with our ground game eating up the clock.

polamalubeast
05-05-2010, 10:37 AM
I don't want to turn into a run first team. For the first 4 weeks with Dixon, sure. But not with a QB of Ben's caliber in the backfield. What we do need to though is improve our short yardage running game. Roethlisberger going into shotgun on 3rd and 2 is ridiculous (nearly every single time last year). If we can get first downs on those situations by running the ball, it'll keep defenses off balance.


:thumbsup:

steelc58
05-05-2010, 11:04 AM
I sooooooo agree. Bruce needs to learn to take what the defence will give. He is so predictable. Plays the same no matter what team we are playing. Mix it up let Ben call some of the plays. How many Superbowl's do you need to win to prove you are worthy?
Ben can get it done.Tunneled vision is what BA has.

Dino 6 Rings
05-05-2010, 11:52 AM
Cleveland 13, Pittsburgh 6

:poke:

"we got greedy with the pass"

:toofunny:

California-Steel
05-05-2010, 02:28 PM
Here is a good analogy of BA's offence.

It is like a NASCAR driver that drives balls out the entire race only to have his car run out of gas before the finish line.

A top driver in the car
Fastest car on the track
Fastest pole position setting time
Fastest lap times
Fastest lap splits
Did not finish the race due to a bad crew chief

revefsreleets
05-05-2010, 03:50 PM
Here is a good analogy of BA's offence.

It is like a NASCAR driver that drives balls out the entire race only to have his car run out of gas before the finish line.

A top driver in the car
Fastest car on the track
Fastest pole position setting time
Fastest lap times
Fastest lap splits
Did not finish the race due to a bad crew chief
Horrible analogy. The crew chief set up the car, which made it the fastest car. He also set it up for qualifying (which is a different set-up entirely, and most DON'T set-up for both, usually one or the other). Also, the top driver won't be working for s shleppy chief. So you'd be saying that the crew chief is a genius who made one single mistake, and I just KNOW you aren't calling Arians a genius.

Arians took what was given and played to the teams strengths. And, for that, he is dually continually retained by the FO, and derided and hated by a certain segment of the fan base.

California-Steel
05-05-2010, 04:08 PM
Horrible analogy. The crew chief set up the car, which made it the fastest car. He also set it up for qualifying (which is a different set-up entirely, and most DON'T set-up for both, usually one or the other). Also, the top driver won't be working for s shleppy chief. So you'd be saying that the crew chief is a genius who made one single mistake, and I just KNOW you aren't calling Arians a genius.

Arians took what was given and played to the teams strengths. And, for that, he is dually continually retained by the FO, and derided and hated by a certain segment of the fan base.The crew chief also talks to the driver and sets the strategy on when to pit and not. Yes the crew chief can is more like and O and D coach as he does mostly everything.

What you seem to not be getting is that Bruce has produced some great numbers but we seem to fall short most seasons even with those great number.

Yeah we won a SB with him but I give more credit to the team just being that much better than most. We were number 1 in D and in just about every D category that year also. But when you D is forced to win games becasue you O can't score and your D is back on the field they are bound to break down.

Prok
05-05-2010, 04:14 PM
The crew chief also talks to the driver and sets the strategy on when to pit and not. Yes the crew chief can is more like and O and D coach as he does mostly everything.

What you seem to not be getting is that Bruce has produced some great numbers but we seem to fall short most seasons even with those great number.

Yeah we won a SB with him but I give more credit to the team just being that much better than most. We were number 1 in D and in just about every D category that year also. But when you D is forced to win games becasue you O can't score and your D is back on the field they are bound to break down.

Zinggggggggg. Nice shot. :thumbsup:

The long and short of it is our offense is great so long as Ben works his Elway magic and converts 3rd downs. Seemed like every game that '08 SB season, that was the case.

We'll ALL get to see what it'll be like for 4 games without Ben soon enough.

:doh:

polamalubeast
05-05-2010, 04:57 PM
Cleveland 13, Pittsburgh 6

:poke:

"we got greedy with the pass"

:toofunny:

The game against the browns was the worst performing at the steelers offense since 2007(With that against the eagles in 2008).

We can not judge a team on a bad game.

Especially the next game, Roethlisberger has made 503 passing yards against the Packers.

In 2008, the steelers won the super bowl despite the steelers have had the worst ground attack in the last 20 years. (With 2003)

fansince'76
05-05-2010, 10:26 PM
What you seem to not be getting is that Bruce has produced some great numbers but we seem to fall short most seasons even with those great number.

Seems to me we fell short most years with the 3-yards-and-a-cloud-of-dust philosphy espoused by the article in the OP (AKA "Cowherball") as well, mainly because when we wound up in the postseason against one of the better teams that we couldn't simply "physically impose our will" upon, we lacked a QB who could pick up the slack and we ended up bowing out, usually in an embarrassing home loss in the AFCCG. Now we finally have the QB (as evidenced by 2 Lombardis in the last 5 years after a 26-year drought), and people want to go back to handing the ball off 60 times a game? Makes no sense.

tony hipchest
05-05-2010, 11:13 PM
Seems to me we fell short most years with the 3-yards-and-a-cloud-of-dust philosphy espoused by the article in the OP (AKA "Cowherball") as well, mainly because when we wound up in the postseason against one of the better teams that we couldn't simply "physically impose our will" upon, we lacked a QB who could pick up the slack and we ended up bowing out, usually in an embarrassing home loss in the AFCCG. Now we finally have the QB (as evidenced by 2 Lombardis in the last 5 years after a 26-year drought), and people want to go back to handing the ball off 60 times a game? Makes no sense.

actually now is when it makes the MOST sense (although handing the ball off 60 times a game is a complete strawman argument and hyper-exaggeration)

what people really dont want is a gameplan that thinks passing the ball in hurricaine/tornado strength winds 60 times vs 5 rushing attempts is a good idea.

we lost our #1 wr. we lost our #1 qb for up to 6 games. we lost willie, and refuse to employ a FB. we lost our tallest wr and 2nd round draft pick from 2 years ago. and our coordinator wouldnt know what to do with spaeth if he were 6.7 inches of meat hanging inbetween his legs.

now is the absolute PERFECT time to do what many fans said needed to be done last year.

speaking of cowherball... his record is like 111-2-1 with a 10 point lead, right? i sure woulda like to have held a few 10 point leads last season. "cowherball" was able to do that 111 times with some great to average defenses and some putrid offenses.

and lets not confuse arians with cowher, tomlin, wisenhunt, (or even gailey or mularkey... hell even k. gilbride or r. sherman will have longer nfl coordinator jobs in the nfl).

despite what the immediate relatives of arians will say he will never be in the class of actual head coaches, or even coordinators who are even up for consideration for an interview.

despite lance zeirlein saying his dad got a raw deal, the fact of the matter is that larry is still unemployed. and he is a sb winning line coach.

same with arians. he is what he is. 32 team's front offices cant be wrong. :hunch:

fansince'76
05-05-2010, 11:19 PM
speaking of cowherball... his record is like 111-2-1 with a 10 point lead, right? i sure woulda like to have held a few 10 point leads last season. "cowherball" was able to do that 111 times with some great to average defenses and some putrid offenses.

And one SB win in 15 years. And just as many people squawking just as much about that philosophy when it was employed as they do about Arian's "pass happy" attack now. That's not a strawman or hyperbole, either. If we don't score a TD every single goddamn possession (which is a COMPLETELY unrealistic expectation of ANY team), there are people who are gonna bitch and bitch loudly, regardless of what the gameplan is or who the OC is. That was more my point.

tony hipchest
05-05-2010, 11:54 PM
And one SB win in 15 years. And just as many people squawking just as much about that philosophy when it was employed as they do about Arian's "pass happy" attack now. That's not a strawman or hyperbole, either.you are correct. that example is not strawman or hyperbole (even though the previous example was).

FACT of the matter is only THREE teams were capable of winning more than cowhers single championship in that 15 years.

cowboys
broncos
patriots

i put cowher and dungy in the same league as teams they assembled and coached won 2.

hell, even mike holmgren made it to 3 sb's and won one.

what absolutely disgusts me is supposed die-hard steelerfans who attempt to denigrate cowhers accomlishments by quoting arians amazing sb winning feats.

lets not confuse fantasy and fandom (or even the status-quo) with reality here...

arian isnt, nor ever will be, on the same level as holmgren, shanahan, gruden, jimmy johnson, belicheck, cowher, or even brian billick.

cam cameron is a better coordinator.

it is what it is. the fact that al davis is still lucid enough to not even place a call to give him an interview is all one needs to know.

he doesnt even belong in a discussion with cowher. like i said, sherman and gilbride have survived long beyond cowherball. despite the heads in the sand, arians is hanging by a thin thread, and will not survive for long beyond the steelers.

they made him... not vice versa.

i wish him well as his success is what is best for the team.

fansince'76
05-05-2010, 11:57 PM
arian isnt, nor ever will be, on the same level as holmgren, shanahan, gruden, jimmy johnson, belicheck, cowher, or even brian billick.

cam cameron is a better coordinator.

I agree. But he's here for at least another year, so I gotta hope for the best. :hope:

tony hipchest
05-06-2010, 12:11 AM
I agree. But he's here for at least another year, so I gotta hope for the best. :hope:i definitely hope for the best, too.

but what pisses me off, is my main justification for keeping him around was for the consistancy and comfortability he brought to ben (and to a lesser degree holmes) and the rest of the offense.

im sick of seeing my team trying to placate the whims of ben and a tall wr, or a coordinator who swears by the 3 TE set or "pony backfield" bs when we dont hear a peep from one of the greatest defensive coordinators of all time.

and the second we draft 2 linebackers in the first 4 rounds, the fans have a complete conip fit. of course they are probably the same fans who called l. timmons the next a. jackson, who couldnt understand the drafting of l. woodley after we took an LB in the 1st...

Rick5895
05-06-2010, 04:03 AM
We havent even started TC yet and here go the Arians threads, I will say he is not my favorite but he is our OC. Last season fans where bashing Lebeau cause the D couldn't close out games, fans bashed arians for the O not scoring enough points. Offensively the Browns game was a travesty but the Raiders game was far worse, 3 times in the red zone and 3 total points. That will be my only refernce to last season with Brucey. Time to embark on a new season, and hopefully Bruce improves his gamesmanship and play calling, I am sure he will. Heres to being a contender and maybe the champs again in 2010.
LETS ALL LOOK AT THE POTENTIAL WE HAVE THIS UPCOMING YEAR AND USE THE OFFSEASON FORUM TO BE POSITIVE.
As ODDBALL said in Kelly's Heroes, "enough with the negative waves, Moriarity"

revefsreleets
05-06-2010, 08:42 AM
Actually, as long as the Steelers keep employing him, threads like this are largely meaningless. A bunch of arm-chair QB's second guessing the best FO in the league, and that's all of this claptrap will ever amount to.

This is the Pittsburgh Steelers. It's an honor to be a coach for them. They could go out and recruit just about any OC they'd like. They have retained Arians while many of some of the aforementioned guys have become available and passed on them. The "fans" have tried to wish him away. They've tried to make lies and false rumors true. They've tried to disparage the guy in ways I've seldom seen before. My favorite is the "logic" that he only calls the plays that don't work, and Ben calls the plays that do.

It's clapping with one hand to argue with the naysayers. They "know" best, and will not be dissuaded. I can't be drawn into anymore of these IQ draining exercises in futility arguing with Monday morning experts who aren't fit to call the offense on a Pop Warner B-team, let alone the Steelers offense.

Enjoy, Mods! You unfortunately will have to read all 10,000 pages of this idiotic tripe for the next 9 months, at least...

MasterOfPuppets
05-06-2010, 11:13 AM
Actually, as long as the United States keep employing him, threads like this are largely meaningless. A bunch of arm-chair politicians second guessing the best country in the world, and that's all of this claptrap will ever amount to.

This is the United States. It's an honor to be president. The citizens could go out and elect just about any politician they'd like. They have elected obama while many of some of the aforementioned guys have become available and passed on them. The "reps" have tried to wish him away. They've tried to make lies and false rumors true. They've tried to disparage the guy in ways I've seldom seen before. My favorite is the "logic" that he only makes policies that don't work, and reps make the policies that do.

It's clapping with one hand to argue with the naysayers. They "know" best, and will not be dissuaded. I can't be drawn into anymore of these IQ draining exercises in futility arguing with Monday morning experts who aren't fit to make the policies in a 3rd world country , let alone the united states..

Enjoy, Mods! You unfortunately will have to read all 10,000 pages of this idiotic tripe for the next 9 months, at least...
fixed it for ya ...:thumbsup:

revefsreleets
05-06-2010, 11:49 AM
Fans vote for their teams coordinators?

Horrifically bad, even for a poster who generally ain't anywhere near the best or brightest. But it's an A for effort! Hopefully you came up with this on your own, without help from the braintrust. Keep tryin' hard, little camper!

Prok
05-06-2010, 10:21 PM
you are correct. that example is not strawman or hyperbole (even though the previous example was).

FACT of the matter is only THREE teams were capable of winning more than cowhers single championship in that 15 years.

cowboys
broncos
patriots

i put cowher and dungy in the same league as teams they assembled and coached won 2.

hell, even mike holmgren made it to 3 sb's and won one.

what absolutely disgusts me is supposed die-hard steelerfans who attempt to denigrate cowhers accomlishments by quoting arians amazing sb winning feats.

lets not confuse fantasy and fandom (or even the status-quo) with reality here...

arian isnt, nor ever will be, on the same level as holmgren, shanahan, gruden, jimmy johnson, belicheck, cowher, or even brian billick.

cam cameron is a better coordinator.

it is what it is. the fact that al davis is still lucid enough to not even place a call to give him an interview is all one needs to know.

he doesnt even belong in a discussion with cowher. like i said, sherman and gilbride have survived long beyond cowherball. despite the heads in the sand, arians is hanging by a thin thread, and will not survive for long beyond the steelers.

they made him... not vice versa.

i wish him well as his success is what is best for the team.

I guess that's pretty much where I stand as well, Tony. I'll NEVER root for our offense to fail but man BA and his play-calling can sure frustrate the crap out of me at times.

Good post dude.

Preacher
05-06-2010, 11:12 PM
http://www.motifake.com/image/demotivational-poster/1003/beating-a-dead-horse-horse-demotivational-poster-1267844749.png

tony hipchest
05-07-2010, 12:01 AM
we gotta be real here preacher.

i understand that some on this board are of personal relations with arians, but a truly objective fan will realize that other than wether or not ben is a rapist (and if his suspension were just or not) how arians handles the directives of his immediate boss plus the president of the company, is the biggest question mark the steelers face going into this season.

then again, there are those who believe that if mundy, carter and a rookie hood should simply step in for an absent troy and aaron and execute, so arians should be able to run tyler palko out there as the starter and expect the same.

since the system works, it is up to the likes of leftwich to get 4000+ yds, hines and wallace with 1000+, el to have his best season ever, and moore or the rookie (if needed) to get 1000.

all they gotta do is execute. :chuckle:

wise words to arians is that trying to maintain the status quo will find him out of work and kicked down to a coordinators job in the collegiate ranks.

it is tomlin's and lebeau's (i.e. the rooney's) formula that is the winning one... not his.

Preacher
05-07-2010, 12:59 AM
we gotta be real here preacher.

i understand that some on this board are of personal relations with arians, but a truly objective fan will realize that other than wether or not ben is a rapist (and if his suspension were just or not) how arians handles the directives of his immediate boss plus the president of the company, is the biggest question mark the steelers face going into this season.

then again, there are those who believe that if mundy, carter and a rookie hood should simply step in for an absent troy and aaron and execute, so arians should be able to run tyler palko out there as the starter and expect the same.

since the system works, it is up to the likes of leftwich to get 4000+ yds, hines and wallace with 1000+, el to have his best season ever, and moore or the rookie (if needed) to get 1000.

all they gotta do is execute. :chuckle:

wise words to arians is that trying to maintain the status quo will find him out of work and kicked down to a coordinators job in the collegiate ranks.

it is tomlin's and lebeau's (i.e. the rooney's) formula that is the winning one... not his.

I agree. We gotta be real. Since the last 50 or so threads on Arians. Not one play has been called. Not one game has been played. Virtually everything that has been posted in this thread... has been posted multiple times before.

So please explain why we have to do it again?

fansince'76
05-07-2010, 01:00 AM
we gotta be real here preacher.

i understand that some on this board are of personal relations with arians, but a truly objective fan will realize that other than wether or not ben is a rapist (and if his suspension were just or not) how arians handles the directives of his immediate boss plus the president of the company, is the biggest question mark the steelers face going into this season.

then again, there are those who believe that if mundy, carter and a rookie hood should simply step in for an absent troy and aaron and execute, so arians should be able to run tyler palko out there as the starter and expect the same.

since the system works, it is up to the likes of leftwich to get 4000+ yds, hines and wallace with 1000+, el to have his best season ever, and moore or the rookie (if needed) to get 1000.

all they gotta do is execute. :chuckle:

Likewise, a truly objective fan also won't continue to completely give a pass to a defense that allows the likes of scrubs such as Bruce Gradkowski to absolutely torch it and look like Joe Montana while doing so, regardless of who's out of the lineup. Sorry, but if this defense falls off that much because of the lack of 2 out of 11 starters, regardless of how good they are, there's a problem and it goes deeper than just Arians.

HometownGal
05-07-2010, 05:16 AM
Likewise, a truly objective fan also won't continue to completely give a pass to a defense that allows the likes of scrubs such as Bruce Gradkowski to absolutely torch it and look like Joe Montana while doing so, regardless of who's out of the lineup. Sorry, but if this defense falls off that much because of the lack of 2 out of 11 starters, regardless of how good they are, there's a problem and it goes deeper than just Arians.

Bu, bu, but the defense. :chuckle:

AMEN! :applaudit: :thumbsup:

Remember - it's not ever the players' fault. BA wears many hats, including getting out there on that field on game day and executing those plays. It's also his fault that our OL was like a sieve last season. Silly us.

Prok
05-07-2010, 10:41 AM
Likewise, a truly objective fan also won't continue to completely give a pass to a defense that allows the likes of scrubs such as Bruce Gradkowski to absolutely torch it and look like Joe Montana while doing so, regardless of who's out of the lineup. Sorry, but if this defense falls off that much because of the lack of 2 out of 11 starters, regardless of how good they are, there's a problem and it goes deeper than just Arians.

Hell yeah I can agree with that too. Lebeau ALWAYS gets a pass from Steeler nation. But the reality is that his scheme has had their share of meltdowns too.

I think it's because he's a friendly elder gentleman.

I personally don't care for either co-ordinator we have.

:wave:

Dino 6 Rings
05-07-2010, 02:06 PM
. A bunch of arm-chair QB's second guessing the best FO in the league, .

FO that pretty much told the guy RUN THE BALL MORE OR ITS YOUR JOB

In this off season...so like...

Haters were kind of right.

:applaudit:

Dino 6 Rings
05-07-2010, 02:11 PM
"there is no full back in my offense"

"we got greedy with the pass"

HometownGal
05-07-2010, 08:10 PM
FO that pretty much told the guy RUN THE BALL MORE OR ITS YOUR JOB

In this off season...so like...

Haters were kind of right.

:applaudit:

Where was it ever stated that the FO told BA that his job would be in jeopardy unless he "ran the ball more"? I read what Art II said and saw his interview on local TV and he never gave any indication that BA's job was on the line or would be on the line. Quite to the contrary and he even went so far as to say that he was pleased overall with BA. He did make a strong suggestion that the Steelers run the ball more which I don't take as him issuing an ultimatum. If the boss man wants the Steelers O to incorporate more running plays, I'm all for it as long as the OL does its job by run blocking and opening up holes for our backs to gain yardage. I have no doubt both Tomlin and BA concur.

Mistah_Q
05-07-2010, 08:27 PM
He wants the team to run the ball more. Step 1: Build Mendenhall (and Ben...) the O-line he deserves. Pouncey? Check.

I've had my share of gripes at Arians, but, I bet he could do a lot more with a league elite O-line and a mediocre receiving corps, than he could with a mediocre O-line and a league elite receiving corps.

tony hipchest
05-07-2010, 08:39 PM
I agree. We gotta be real. Since the last 50 or so threads on Arians. Not one play has been called. Not one game has been played. Virtually everything that has been posted in this thread... has been posted multiple times before.

So please explain why we have to do it again?probably for the same reason we have to visit a steelers discussion board when not a snap of football has been played in 4+ months.

why is this a topic now? because it is the greatest question mark hanging over this team. ALL of the questions and concerns lingering from last season have been addressed and i certainly trust the rooneys, colbert and tomlin have done. (arians hasnt EARNED my trust in what he will do)-

-troy and smith are back healthy.
-we upgraded the CB position and 2 rookies from last year are still developing.
-we have adequate depth for james and lamarr.
-we added more than adequate depth for farrior and timmons.
-we picked up ryan clarks replacement, and still retained ryan clark (dismissed carter).
-hood will be a great situational player and back up for our end positions.
-we added another big, promising, bruising back to replace FWP.
-we finally spent a 1st round pick to bolster the OL.
-we brought back team chemistry.
-we upgraded special teams across the board.
-we punished ben and dumped holmes for acting like irresponsible dickheads.
-we fired the OL coach
-we fired the ST coach.

-we told the OC to get his act together. :juggle:

that is the only thing left up in the air. how will he respond? past history says a tiger will not change his stripes, but i think tomlin can hammer the point home.


Likewise, a truly objective fan also won't continue to completely give a pass to a defense that allows the likes of scrubs such as Bruce Gradkowski to absolutely torch it and look like Joe Montana while doing so, regardless of who's out of the lineup. Sorry, but if this defense falls off that much because of the lack of 2 out of 11 starters, regardless of how good they are, there's a problem and it goes deeper than just Arians.

i pretty much disagree with everything in this post and dont think lebeau and the players have been getting a free pass, and even if they were, they earned it.

do the steelers offense get a pass in '76 when their offense was decimated? you bet your ass they do. :tt03:

dick lebeau has paid his dues, proven his worth and has earned a pass. troy polamalu is on the same level as lawrence taylor, reggie white, bruce smith, deione sanders, and ronnie lott. its kinda sad we still have steelerfans who dont recognize that.

dick lebeau nearly rendered the joe montana 49ers (at their peak) innefective in a superbowl (had krumrie not snapped his twig, they likely woulda won).

his steelers units have routinely been league leaders in points allowed and yards allowed.

his defense in 05 shut down the top 4 offenses on the way to a sb victory.

his defense in 08 was the best this league has seen since the 00 ravens, 86 giants, or 85 bears.

arians had a 4000 yd passer/two 1000 yd wr's/1000 yd rb, and fantasy football geeks are practically orgasmic about missing the playoffs.

about 1 teams are wishing they can impliment dick lebeaus 'fire zone" 3-4 blitz, in '10.
theres not even a single team that tries to impliment arians' wr 'bunch formation' on a regular basis (and i think its a damn good package).

"we dont utilize a fb in our offense" 'we got greedy with the pass"

i think i will decide who i give a "pass" to and still maintain ALL objectivity.





Bu, bu, but the defense. :chuckle:

AMEN! :applaudit: :thumbsup:

Remember - it's not ever the players' fault. BA wears many hats, including getting out there on that field on game day and executing those plays. It's also his fault that our OL was like a sieve last season. Silly us.

pretty much the same OL allowed FWP to be the league leader in rushing in '07, won a superbowl in '08, and turned out 4000/1000/1000/1000 in '09.

the seive's coach has been fired, and the unit has been awarded a 1st and 3rd round infusion of youth.

and while it is pretty evident that dick lebeau will never win the kentucky derby riding a zebra, it still remains to be seen if arians can win a dog race on a thoroughbred.

big ben had 3 great drives in the 08 superbowl (only 2 resulted in td's) but we have yet to see what arians is capable of w/o him.

Texasteel
05-07-2010, 09:10 PM
Actually, I thought that the OL had be going down hill some since 07. In 08 the line didn't look all that good till the playoffs, then did a very good job in the Super Bowl. I thought the line was miss quite a bit last year as well, not being able to open holes at critical times, letting defenders penetrate in the middle on both passing a running downs. I guess the Steeler agreed with me since they used the 18 pick on a O-Lineman.

If you want to talk about last years down fall, and want to be honest about it, you have to look at the defense as well. I for one don't thing that the fact that they were missing two of their best players was the only reason they played so badly, but what ever the reason they looked horrible at time, mostly in the last quarter.

The final word is. I think last year was a fluke, one of those years that happens from time to time. If I am wrong, I will be the first to admit it. If I'm right, I won't rub it in.

Psyychoward86
05-07-2010, 09:22 PM
-we picked up ryan clarks replacement, and still retained ryan clark (dismissed carter).


Here's the only thing bothering me. Who are you talking about? Mundy? Allen?

tony hipchest
05-07-2010, 09:45 PM
Actually, I thought that the OL had be going down hill some since 07. In 08 the line didn't look all that good till the playoffs, then did a very good job in the Super Bowl. I thought the line was miss quite a bit last year as well, not being able to open holes at critical times, letting defenders penetrate in the middle on both passing a running downs. I guess the Steeler agreed with me since they used the 18 pick on a O-Lineman.

If you want to talk about last years down fall, and want to be honest about it, you have to look at the defense as well. I for one don't thing that the fact that they were missing two of their best players was the only reason they played so badly, but what ever the reason they looked horrible at time, mostly in the last quarter.

The final word is. I think last year was a fluke, one of those years that happens from time to time. If I am wrong, I will be the first to admit it. If I'm right, I won't rub it in.im with ya, tex.

the OL has been going down a great deal since 05. we have lost smith, simmons, hartings, and faneca. that is no walk in the park, especially considering the years it took for kemo, essex, and starks to 'develop'.

not to mention the likes of ross, vincent, okolbi, who were pissed into the wind, and all the others who were nothing but roster space eaters in the interim. im just glad we salvaged colon.

sad to see a 3rd round guard from last year already being labeled as a bust. perhaps he will get an opportunity or 2, allow a few sacks, get hurt, and be called the next sweeeeeeed. :tt02: :rolleyes:

i thought big legursky opened some great holes last year during critical moments. too bad it was only twice and he will most likely be on the chopping block as we continure to dick around with about eight HB/RB/TE/ST prospects who cant do much of anything well (atleast none that we seen).

why does nobody ever seem to have an answer why the defense looked so horrible in the 4th quarter last year?

if it is so easy to dismiss the importance of troy and smith to the defense, why is it so hard to accept the importance of running the ball to grind down the clock? it worked for cowher to the tune of like an 111-2-1 record PLUS a superbowl victory. :noidea:

this isnt a "players simply need to execute" issue. it is a coaching issue.

the players are coming out and admitting that they are actually practicing running the ball now.

it wasnt a point of emphasis last year. that much is documented fact.

what was a point of emphasis was ben and santonio "thats how you be great".

look where that got us.

everyone from the top down is to blame, because they all allowed it to happen. but now that the law has been laid and the organization has tightened the reigns, i see arians as the unproven commodity and the weakest link.

its time for him to sink or swim. he can go 0-5 w/0 his 2 biggest offensive stars. or he can go 5-0.

regardless of that, i expect a healthy lebeau unit to be tops in the league in all defensive categories. (i just wish we coulda expected the same from last years healthy 4000/1000/1000/1000 offense).

tony hipchest
05-07-2010, 09:49 PM
Here's the only thing bothering me. Who are you talking about? Mundy? Allen?

allen. (...to be competition with mundy).

lets not forget that r. clark was an UDFA, unwanted, nobody with the giants and washington, before the steelers signed him (like allen) and awarded him the opportunity to be great.

fansince'76
05-08-2010, 04:22 AM
if it is so easy to dismiss the importance of troy and smith to the defense, why is it so hard to accept the importance of running the ball to grind down the clock? it worked for cowher to the tune of like an 111-2-1 record PLUS a superbowl victory. :noidea:

Grinding out the clock? We had a 2-1 advantage in TOP (44 minutes vs. 22 minutes) against the Chiefs and STILL gave up 27 points (and a 10-point lead at one point) to the 25th-ranked offense in the league - my bad, 7 of those came on yet another ST breakdown which also greatly contributed to most of our losses. We also won the TOP battle and scored a go-ahead TD against the Raiders with 1:56 on the clock and allowed an even more inept offense (31st-ranked) to march 88 yards for the winning TD and look like the '89 49ers while doing it. It's one thing to allow a Manning or a Brees to do that, but to allow a 3rd-rate QB like Bruce Gradkowski and an offense that to that point was scoring all of 10 points a game to do it? Completely unacceptable, and the blame for that shouldn't all fall on Arians, IMO. We'll never agree on this point, so that will probably be the last I say about it.

Texasteel
05-08-2010, 07:36 AM
why does nobody ever seem to have an answer why the defense looked so horrible in the 4th quarter last year?

if it is so easy to dismiss the importance of troy and smith to the defense, why is it so hard to accept the importance of running the ball to grind down the clock? it worked for cowher to the tune of like an 111-2-1 record PLUS a superbowl victory. :noidea:

this isnt a "players simply need to execute" issue. it is a coaching issue.

the players are coming out and admitting that they are actually practicing running the ball now.

it wasnt a point of emphasis last year. that much is documented fact.

what was a point of emphasis was ben and santonio "thats how you be great".

look where that got us.

everyone from the top down is to blame, because they all allowed it to happen. but now that the law has been laid and the organization has tightened the reigns, i see arians as the unproven commodity and the weakest link.

its time for him to sink or swim. he can go 0-5 w/0 his 2 biggest offensive stars. or he can go 5-0.

regardless of that, i expect a healthy lebeau unit to be tops in the league in all defensive categories. (i just wish we coulda expected the same from last years healthy 4000/1000/1000/1000 offense).


I don't think that fans like myself have dismissed Troy and Smith as being a large part of the problem on defense. We just do think that was the only problem, or that it should have be a problem that a #1 defense could overcome a lot better than we did. However, either way the fact is that the defense did not play well at the end of the games, and gave up 4th qu. leads. In a couple of games gave it up a couple of times in the same game.

I'm not going to give the offense a free pass, nor am I going to give BA a free pass. I agree that he did not alway make the correct call, but no coach does, I thought our DC made a few as well. I can remember two games that I was very dissapointed in his play calling. I do however think that he did a pretty good overall job as the OC and did and does not deserve being labled THE reason for 2009. This team lost as a team, they will have to win as a team as well. That includes the offense and the defense.

I believe they will.

Slanted August
05-08-2010, 08:07 AM
Between the 20's I thought we were pretty aggressive & efficient. It was when we got inside the 10 is when we became poor and predictable the last couple years.

Can someone educate me and explain why he refuses to at least show one or two RB screens and a package with Logan or Dixon? Some may argue that our OL is not made for this. My simple thought is to show as many formations as possible (like we did with Wiz, Gaily & Malarky) just to make the opposing defenses prepare more for us each week.

If you can recall the Dallas game a couple years back it was obvious that the Cowboys were able to blow up some plays inside the 5 yard line by basic film studies of the Steeler tendencies and formations.

The other option is to blatantly copy what the Colts or Saints do once inside the 10 yard line.

markymarc
05-08-2010, 07:24 PM
Well until the Steelers FO gets a new OC, I will have to live with Bruce Arians. It bothers me to no end, but he is our current OC. It will be interesting to see how Arians handles the first 4 weeks of the season in calling games. With either Lefty or Dixon taking the snaps, Arians does have a chance to show what level he is on as an OC.

Prok
05-08-2010, 07:48 PM
Well until the Steelers FO gets a new OC, I will have to live with Bruce Arians. It bothers me to no end, but he is our current OC. It will be interesting to see how Arians handles the first 4 weeks of the season in calling games. With either Lefty or Dixon taking the snaps, Arians does have a chance to show what level he is on as an OC.

I have very little faith in Bruce myself. But if we can go 2-2 or better AND our offense helps us win during the suspension i'll even give the guy proper credit.

markymarc
05-10-2010, 02:25 PM
I have very little faith in Bruce myself. But if we can go 2-2 or better AND our offense helps us win during the suspension i'll even give the guy proper credit.

I could very well see us going 3-1 for the first 4 games. The key things will be our special teams play, our defense playing at a high level again and most importantly how the offense performs during that time.

I will have no problem giving Bruce credit so as long as he calls great games the first 4 weeks. To me, the OC can say a lot about his ability when having to call games for the backup QB. So let's see how he does with Byron or Dixon.

MasterOfPuppets
05-10-2010, 02:34 PM
I could very well see us going 3-1 for the first 4 games. The key things will be our special teams play, our defense playing at a high level again and most importantly how the offense performs during that time.

I will have no problem giving Bruce credit so as long as he calls great games the first 4 weeks. To me, the OC can say a lot about his ability when having to call games for the backup QB. So let's see how he does with Byron or Dixon.

so what your saying is the key to winning is by playing good Special teams , defense and offense....thats VERY profound...:sofunny:
joking*

markymarc
05-10-2010, 02:49 PM
so what your saying is the key to winning is by playing good Special teams , defense and offense....thats VERY profound...:sofunny:
joking*

It's amazing what I stumbled upon :wink02:

Dino 6 Rings
05-11-2010, 12:30 PM
Grinding out the clock? We had a 2-1 advantage in TOP (44 minutes vs. 22 minutes) against the Chiefs and STILL gave up 27 points (and a 10-point lead at one point) to the 25th-ranked offense in the league - my bad, 7 of those came on yet another ST breakdown which also greatly contributed to most of our losses. We also won the TOP battle and scored a go-ahead TD against the Raiders with 1:56 on the clock and allowed an even more inept offense (31st-ranked) to march 88 yards for the winning TD and look like the '89 49ers while doing it. It's one thing to allow a Manning or a Brees to do that, but to allow a 3rd-rate QB like Bruce Gradkowski and an offense that to that point was scoring all of 10 points a game to do it? Completely unacceptable, and the blame for that shouldn't all fall on Arians, IMO. We'll never agree on this point, so that will probably be the last I say about it.


Yeah well we SHOULD have had a 35 point effing lead in those games but Bruce's play calling so pathetic and inept he can't find the redzone for scratching his arse!

That's the point. He can get all the stats and ridiculous numbers he wants, its points on the board that matter, and he doesn't get enough of them.

Maybe, just maybe, knowing we had 2 of our stars out on defense, and that we wouldnt' be able to rely on them to bail our arse out again every regulars season game for a 2nd season, we should have focussed more on Scoring some effing touchdowns instead of being fansy pants morons and going for STATS to keep a stoned out reciever happy and a QB who can't keep his shlong in his pants from crying about not breaking Terry's records.

So there you have it.

If you want to have the Pass First offense, Fine, effing produce with it, instead of scoring, lets see shall we...

10 against the Titans
14 against the Bears...THE EFFING BEARS!
20 against the Bengals...way to go offense
38 against the Chargers. Nicely done.
28 against the Lions (greedy game punted the entire 2nd half.)
27 against the Browns
27 against the Vikings...wait, didn't we get a D touchdown in that one? Think we did.
28 against the Broncos, thank god.
12 against the Bengals, Bang up job Offense
24 against the Chiefs, 24 points against one of the worst teams in the league.
17 against the Ravens.
24 against the Raiders, one of the worst teams in the league.
6 against the Browns....SIX EFFING POINTS
37 against the Packers in a passing fest nightmare that we got lucky in.
23 against the Ravens, better than 17
30 against the Dolphins in a balls to the wall hope for a miracle playoff game.

Knowing our D was weaker than the 08 season, and going for all the STATS he should have known, we need more points than normal. We need cushions and leads and bigger cushions and leads then we are used to. Whereas in 08 a 3 or 7 point lead was enough, we knew KNEW the D was in trouble, with Gay not showing up, and Carter being a mess, and Smith being down, we needed more points.

Instead we got Stats. Not Points when we needed them.

Bang up job Bruce.

Maybe, maybe that's because when you go pass pass pass Punt, its just as bad as Run Run pass Punt. Maybe that's the problem us "haters" have. It isn't about "run run all the time, its about effing balance, something Bruce has none of.

getting off my soap box now.

Oh...Tony makes Great Points about all our off season problems being addressed except One. and that one is Bruce Arians. He's the wild card.

fansince'76
05-11-2010, 12:43 PM
Yeah well we SHOULD have had a 35 point effing lead in those games but Bruce's play calling so pathetic and inept he can't find the redzone for scratching his arse!

That's the point. He can get all the stats and ridiculous numbers he wants, its points on the board that matter, and he doesn't get enough of them.

Maybe, just maybe, knowing we had 2 of our stars out on defense, and that we wouldnt' be able to rely on them to bail our arse out again every regulars season game for a 2nd season, we should have focussed more on Scoring some effing touchdowns instead of being fansy pants morons and going for STATS to keep a stoned out reciever happy and a QB who can't keep his shlong in his pants from crying about not breaking Terry's records.

So there you have it.

If you want to have the Pass First offense, Fine, effing produce with it, instead of scoring, lets see shall we...

10 against the Titans
14 against the Bears...THE EFFING BEARS!
20 against the Bengals...way to go offense
38 against the Chargers. Nicely done.
28 against the Lions (greedy game punted the entire 2nd half.)
27 against the Browns
27 against the Vikings...wait, didn't we get a D touchdown in that one? Think we did.
28 against the Broncos, thank god.
12 against the Bengals, Bang up job Offense
24 against the Chiefs, 24 points against one of the worst teams in the league.
17 against the Ravens.
24 against the Raiders, one of the worst teams in the league.
6 against the Browns....SIX EFFING POINTS
37 against the Packers in a passing fest nightmare that we got lucky in.
23 against the Ravens, better than 17
30 against the Dolphins in a balls to the wall hope for a miracle playoff game.

Knowing our D was weaker than the 08 season, and going for all the STATS he should have known, we need more points than normal. We need cushions and leads and bigger cushions and leads then we are used to. Whereas in 08 a 3 or 7 point lead was enough, we knew KNEW the D was in trouble, with Gay not showing up, and Carter being a mess, and Smith being down, we needed more points.

Instead we got Stats. Not Points when we needed them.

Bang up job Bruce.

Maybe, maybe that's because when you go pass pass pass Punt, its just as bad as Run Run pass Punt. Maybe that's the problem us "haters" have. It isn't about "run run all the time, its about effing balance, something Bruce has none of.

getting off my soap box now.

Oh...Tony makes Great Points about all our off season problems being addressed except One. and that one is Bruce Arians. He's the wild card.

Thanks - this entire rant just goes back to a point I previously made in the thread:

If we don't score a TD every single goddamn possession (which is a COMPLETELY unrealistic expectation of ANY team), there are people who are gonna bitch and bitch loudly, regardless of what the gameplan is or who the OC is.

I didn't realize a defense the caliber of '08's was required to stop scrubs such as Bruce Gradkowski and talent-bereft offenses like the Raiders' from driving 90 yards in less than two minutes for a game-winning TD. So please stop making it sound like we were facing the likes of Brees and Manning every week. We weren't.

Dino 6 Rings
05-11-2010, 01:18 PM
Thanks - this entire rant just goes back to a point I previously made in the thread:



I didn't realize a defense the caliber of '08's was required to stop scrubs such as Bruce Gradkowski and talent-bereft offenses like the Raiders' from driving 90 yards in less than two minutes for a game-winning TD. So please stop making it sound like we were facing the likes of Brees and Manning every week. We weren't.

For the record, sorry if I was too "abusive" in my rant.

Prok
05-11-2010, 01:25 PM
Yeah well we SHOULD have had a 35 point effing lead in those games but Bruce's play calling so pathetic and inept he can't find the redzone for scratching his arse!

That's the point. He can get all the stats and ridiculous numbers he wants, its points on the board that matter, and he doesn't get enough of them.

Maybe, just maybe, knowing we had 2 of our stars out on defense, and that we wouldnt' be able to rely on them to bail our arse out again every regulars season game for a 2nd season, we should have focussed more on Scoring some effing touchdowns instead of being fansy pants morons and going for STATS to keep a stoned out reciever happy and a QB who can't keep his shlong in his pants from crying about not breaking Terry's records.

So there you have it.

If you want to have the Pass First offense, Fine, effing produce with it, instead of scoring, lets see shall we...

10 against the Titans
14 against the Bears...THE EFFING BEARS!
20 against the Bengals...way to go offense
38 against the Chargers. Nicely done.
28 against the Lions (greedy game punted the entire 2nd half.)
27 against the Browns
27 against the Vikings...wait, didn't we get a D touchdown in that one? Think we did.
28 against the Broncos, thank god.
12 against the Bengals, Bang up job Offense
24 against the Chiefs, 24 points against one of the worst teams in the league.
17 against the Ravens.
24 against the Raiders, one of the worst teams in the league.
6 against the Browns....SIX EFFING POINTS
37 against the Packers in a passing fest nightmare that we got lucky in.
23 against the Ravens, better than 17
30 against the Dolphins in a balls to the wall hope for a miracle playoff game.

Knowing our D was weaker than the 08 season, and going for all the STATS he should have known, we need more points than normal. We need cushions and leads and bigger cushions and leads then we are used to. Whereas in 08 a 3 or 7 point lead was enough, we knew KNEW the D was in trouble, with Gay not showing up, and Carter being a mess, and Smith being down, we needed more points.

Instead we got Stats. Not Points when we needed them.

Bang up job Bruce.

Maybe, maybe that's because when you go pass pass pass Punt, its just as bad as Run Run pass Punt. Maybe that's the problem us "haters" have. It isn't about "run run all the time, its about effing balance, something Bruce has none of.

getting off my soap box now.

Oh...Tony makes Great Points about all our off season problems being addressed except One. and that one is Bruce Arians. He's the wild card.

Some will call this rant overkill and or BA bashing but i call it pure and utter frustration from a damn loyal Steelers fan.

I don't care who thinks we've had too much of this stuff. It's nice to see fellow fans voicing frustrations in my book.

To me, it's always been about the play-calling and gameplanning.

To be fair I think our DC deserves some blame too though.

Bottomg line for me is we were out-gameplanned on BOTH sides of the ball too many times last year IMO.

SteelGhost
05-11-2010, 03:17 PM
Some will call this rant overkill and or BA bashing but i call it pure and utter frustration from a damn loyal Steelers fan.

I don't care who thinks we've had too much of this stuff. It's nice to see fellow fans voicing frustrations in my book.

To me, it's always been about the play-calling and gameplanning.

To be fair I think our DC deserves some blame too though.

Bottomg line for me is we were out-gameplanned on BOTH sides of the ball too many times last year IMO.

To be fair our DC deserves a lot of the blame too though.... Fixed fot ya' :wink: :chuckle:

Prok
05-11-2010, 03:25 PM
To be fair our DC deserves a lot of the blame too though.... Fixed fot ya' :wink: :chuckle:

LOL

Fair enuff.

:drink:

SteelGhost
05-11-2010, 03:34 PM
:thumbsup: :drink:

Prok
05-11-2010, 03:43 PM
:thumbsup: :drink:

I tell ya, I registered here a couple years ago and just posted very sparingly. I had no idea how many cool Steelers fans were here. Glad i made the permanent jump to this forum.

:tt:

SteelGhost
05-11-2010, 04:09 PM
I tell ya, I registered here a couple years ago and just posted very sparingly. I had no idea how many cool Steelers fans were here. Glad i made the permanent jump to this forum.

:tt:

Thanks Prok I think the same :hatsoff: I hope this board continues this way for a long long time :tt04:

Chidi29
05-11-2010, 04:43 PM
Yeah well we SHOULD have had a 35 point effing lead in those games but Bruce's play calling so pathetic and inept he can't find the redzone for scratching his arse!

That's the point. He can get all the stats and ridiculous numbers he wants, its points on the board that matter, and he doesn't get enough of them.

Maybe, just maybe, knowing we had 2 of our stars out on defense, and that we wouldnt' be able to rely on them to bail our arse out again every regulars season game for a 2nd season, we should have focussed more on Scoring some effing touchdowns instead of being fansy pants morons and going for STATS to keep a stoned out reciever happy and a QB who can't keep his shlong in his pants from crying about not breaking Terry's records.

So there you have it.

If you want to have the Pass First offense, Fine, effing produce with it, instead of scoring, lets see shall we...

10 against the Titans
14 against the Bears...THE EFFING BEARS!
20 against the Bengals...way to go offense
38 against the Chargers. Nicely done.
28 against the Lions (greedy game punted the entire 2nd half.)
27 against the Browns
27 against the Vikings...wait, didn't we get a D touchdown in that one? Think we did.
28 against the Broncos, thank god.
12 against the Bengals, Bang up job Offense
24 against the Chiefs, 24 points against one of the worst teams in the league.
17 against the Ravens.
24 against the Raiders, one of the worst teams in the league.
6 against the Browns....SIX EFFING POINTS
37 against the Packers in a passing fest nightmare that we got lucky in.
23 against the Ravens, better than 17
30 against the Dolphins in a balls to the wall hope for a miracle playoff game.

Knowing our D was weaker than the 08 season, and going for all the STATS he should have known, we need more points than normal. We need cushions and leads and bigger cushions and leads then we are used to. Whereas in 08 a 3 or 7 point lead was enough, we knew KNEW the D was in trouble, with Gay not showing up, and Carter being a mess, and Smith being down, we needed more points.

Instead we got Stats. Not Points when we needed them.

Bang up job Bruce.

Maybe, maybe that's because when you go pass pass pass Punt, its just as bad as Run Run pass Punt. Maybe that's the problem us "haters" have. It isn't about "run run all the time, its about effing balance, something Bruce has none of.

getting off my soap box now.

Oh...Tony makes Great Points about all our off season problems being addressed except One. and that one is Bruce Arians. He's the wild card.

While I agree in general that we need to score more points, putting up stats means that he is moving the offense.

And a lot of games, it was a matter of the players not executing. Arians put them in a position to score with a long drive of a playcall that worked, but we didn't come through.

A look back....

Week 3: Limas' drop in the end zone. Money play, money throw, money route ran, came up empty.

Week 10 vs Cincy: Two crucial sacks in the red zone that led to field goals instead of potential touchdowns.

- 3rd and Goal: 4:54 in the 2nd: There is good coverage all around but Mike Wallace, who Ben was looking at, has a chance on the in route if Ben leads him. It looked like Morgan Trent had his back turned to Wallace for a second; Ben had already looked off Crocker. He had done everything right up until that point. Just have the confidence to lead your main target.

- 1st and goal: 56 seconds left: Bengal's bring the blitz, causing all the lineman to move down one assignment. That lets the DE come free with no one to pick him up since Moore had been motioned out. Instead of Ben reading the defense for a blitz, Ben immediately pump fakes. When he pulls it back, Geathers is all over him for the easy sack.

Week 11 vs KC:

1. Mike Wallace fumbles early in the game that would have put us into KC territory. It was a rookie mistake on his part, not putting the ball in his other hand as he tried to cut back and Flowers knocked it out.

2. Interception that bounced off of Heath's hands that killed a drive and momentum on our first drive in the second half.

3. Ben throwing into basically triple coverage inside their ten and them picking it off, returning it inside our five.

Week 13 vs Oakland: Lots of miscues here. None of which are Arians' fault.

1. Couldn't convert a 4th and inches in the red zone. Poor cut block from Hartwig and Ben gets stuffed.

2. Ben stares down Ward in the back of the end zone and gets picked.

3. Ben takes a sack on a 3rd down, forcing a 52 yard field goal attempt into the open end of the stadium. Reed, as you'd expect, misses it.

Potentially 17 points...gone.

Nothing was working for us the Browns game. I think you can chalk that up to a failed effort all around (Yes, that includes Arians).

-------------------

Once again, we are a balanced team. Please attempt to show that we are a "pass, pass, pass" team.

And no, using one example from the Lions' game doesn't count as evidence.

Psyychoward86
05-11-2010, 05:01 PM
@ Dino Rings

The Bengals and Ravens were two of the best defensive units in football last year. Heck, the Bengals were #1 for a portion of the season

Dino 6 Rings
05-11-2010, 05:03 PM
While I agree in general that we need to score more points, putting up stats means that he is moving the offense.

And a lot of games, it was a matter of the players not executing. Arians put them in a position to score with a long drive of a playcall that worked, but we didn't come through.

A look back....

Week 3: Limas' drop in the end zone. Money play, money throw, money route ran, came up empty.

Week 10 vs Cincy: Two crucial sacks in the red zone that led to field goals instead of potential touchdowns.

- 3rd and Goal: 4:54 in the 2nd: There is good coverage all around but Mike Wallace, who Ben was looking at, has a chance on the in route if Ben leads him. It looked like Morgan Trent had his back turned to Wallace for a second; Ben had already looked off Crocker. He had done everything right up until that point. Just have the confidence to lead your main target.

- 1st and goal: 56 seconds left: Bengal's bring the blitz, causing all the lineman to move down one assignment. That lets the DE come free with no one to pick him up since Moore had been motioned out. Instead of Ben reading the defense for a blitz, Ben immediately pump fakes. When he pulls it back, Geathers is all over him for the easy sack.

Week 11 vs KC:

1. Mike Wallace fumbles early in the game that would have put us into KC territory. It was a rookie mistake on his part, not putting the ball in his other hand as he tried to cut back and Flowers knocked it out.

2. Interception that bounced off of Heath's hands that killed a drive and momentum on our first drive in the second half.

3. Ben throwing into basically triple coverage inside their ten and them picking it off, returning it inside our five.

Week 13 vs Oakland: Lots of miscues here. None of which are Arians' fault.

1. Couldn't convert a 4th and inches in the red zone. Poor cut block from Hartwig and Ben gets stuffed.

2. Ben stares down Ward in the back of the end zone and gets picked.

3. Ben takes a sack on a 3rd down, forcing a 52 yard field goal attempt into the open end of the stadium. Reed, as you'd expect, misses it.

Potentially 17 points...gone.

Nothing was working for us the Browns game. I think you can chalk that up to a failed effort all around (Yes, that includes Arians).

-------------------

Once again, we are a balanced team. Please attempt to show that we are a "pass, pass, pass" team.

And no, using one example from the Lions' game doesn't count as evidence.

Um, every pay you pointed out is a Pass play. So you make my argument for me.

Sure, you can find a fumble or two, that killed a drive, but what was it? 46 sacks this year? or was that last year? Interceptions, sacks, mistakes in the redzone in the passing game, don't happen if guess what, you Run the Ball in just some of those spots.

Thanks though for making my point. Which is, Bring Us More Balance, not pass happy crap that doesn't provide points.

Edit, you did in fact point out one running play that failed...and it was a QB sneak.

polamalubeast
05-11-2010, 05:18 PM
Um, every pay you pointed out is a Pass play. So you make my argument for me.

Sure, you can find a fumble or two, that killed a drive, but what was it? 46 sacks this year? or was that last year? Interceptions, sacks, mistakes in the redzone in the passing game, don't happen if guess what, you Run the Ball in just some of those spots.

Thanks though for making my point. Which is, Bring Us More Balance, not pass happy crap that doesn't provide points.

Edit, you did in fact point out one running play that failed...and it was a QB sneak.

Against the Chiefs, the Steelers run 30 times but they lost the game.

against the raiders, the steelers have done more running than passing and the steelers have lost the game

Against the titans, steelers have been 36 yards on 23 runs

the first defeat against the Bengals, it was made only run, run, pass, punt in 2nd half, which has cost the match.

The defeat against the browns, the steelers have played the worst game was the offensive for 3 years, with one against the eagles in 2008

the steelers won the super bowl in 2008 despite a terrible running game.

The running game is overrated

the cards, the steelers of 2008 were made in the super bowl despite a terrible running game ... same thing for the Colts in 2009

What will be the most important for the steelers in 2010, is to be better defensively.

In 2009, the defense has been terrible in the 4th quarter, despite the steelers had the ball 33 minutes per game

The defense in 2009 was also one of the worst in the league in creating turnovers, which explains why the steelers did not score 400 points this season.

tony hipchest
05-11-2010, 05:37 PM
10 against the Titans
14 against the Bears...THE EFFING BEARS!
20 against the Bengals...way to go offense
38 against the Chargers. Nicely done.
28 against the Lions (greedy game punted the entire 2nd half.)
27 against the Browns
27 against the Vikings...wait, didn't we get a D touchdown in that one? Think we did.
28 against the Broncos, thank god.
12 against the Bengals, Bang up job Offense
24 against the Chiefs, 24 points against one of the worst teams in the league.
17 against the Ravens.
24 against the Raiders, one of the worst teams in the league.
6 against the Browns....SIX EFFING POINTS
37 against the Packers in a passing fest nightmare that we got lucky in.
23 against the Ravens, better than 17
30 against the Dolphins in a balls to the wall hope for a miracle playoff game.

Oh...Tony makes Great Points about all our off season problems being addressed except One. and that one is Bruce Arians. He's the wild card.i see you are counting FG's in the above point totals. those dont represent offensive points to me, but rather offensive failures. according to my calculations (taking away ST and defensive scoring- including the TWO td's vs the vikings) the offense failed to score more than 2 td's in 8 of its 16 games.

on the flipside was the defense that allowed 2 or fewer td's to 10 of its opponents.

i think you did some great research yourself in terms of ball control. while we did come near tops in the league in ball control we DID NOT grind out the clock. what you showed was the offense was incredibly unbalanced in when they possesed the ball. they nearly always won the TOP in the 1st half, but almost always lost it in the 2nd half (many times with the lead).

So please stop making it sound like we were facing the likes of Brees and Manning every week. We weren't.well, its not exacly like we were facing the 85 bears or 86 giants defense every week either.

while many want this subject swept under the rug, it is even more relevant today than it was at the end of the year. while the thread title is extreme, it is pretty much spot on. as it stands now, i look at arians as the weakest link.

everything else has been addressed. if lebeau was calling shitty games, nobody in upper management told him to blitz less or more, or to quit playing CB's 10 yds off the wr.

the only directive he (and the whole coaching staff) was given was to develop the youngsters more quickly.

the proof of these "rants" is in the pudding... we will not see if arians follows orders until kick-off in september. untli then he is the greatest unknown, and the topic relevant.

xbroughneck
05-11-2010, 05:48 PM
Wow...haven't posted in one of these in awhile.

Hey, when I found out I had high blood pressure that was probably urged on by the lack of vegetables in my diet I said...

"it is what it is"

Said the same when I got divorced.

"it is what it is"


Arians as the Steelers offensive coordinator "IS WHAT IT IS"

He's apparently an average situational playcaller that has been able to excel because he's calling plays for a QB that

1) is strong and crafty and can improvise when the pocket breaks down

and

2) excels when they run the no huddle

Arians would have been fired if we had any of 28 of the other 32 starting QBs on this team over the past 3 season. Why, because his base offense gets STAGNANT. Hell, his offense calls for them to start Spaeth who is a below average blocker AND never gets the ball thrown to him.

I can't argue with the Steelers offense being successful. It is.

I CAN argue with Arians being a good situational playcaller.

I CAN argue that the Steelers offense is more productive when they go no huddle.

polamalubeast
05-11-2010, 05:56 PM
I CAN argue that the Steelers offense is more productive when they go no huddle.

I agree

I wish the steelers do more no-huddle from, but it has more chance of seeing the run, run, pass, punt in 2010.:coffee::banging:

Prok
05-11-2010, 06:26 PM
I agree

I wish the steelers do more no-huddle from, but it has more chance of seeing the run, run, pass, punt in 2010.:coffee::banging:

I have been praying for more no-huddle the last 3 years. Everyone wants to tell me it's only effective at certain times but I say that's false.

IMHO Ben could run the no-huddle as pretty much a base offense. And we'd instantly get better in the red zone and situational football IMO too !

I think we'd be BETTER than the K-gun Jim Kelly ran.

:tt:

tony hipchest
05-11-2010, 06:45 PM
I think we'd be BETTER than the K-gun Jim Kelly ran.

:tt:

we could call it the K-Y Jelly offense! :tt04:

Prok
05-11-2010, 06:54 PM
we could call it the K-Y Jelly offense! :tt04:

LMAO

" Hey brownies, take these shots bitches !! "

:tt:

zulater
05-11-2010, 09:24 PM
http://espn.go.com/espnradio/player?rd=1#/podcenter/?autoplay=1&id=5180963&callsign=WEAEAM

Ed Bouchette talking about Arians and how his retention may be part of why Tomlin's contract extension has been put on the back burner.

Start just before the 37 minute mark and go to about 41.:noidea:

Chidi29
05-11-2010, 09:26 PM
Ed also said that he expects an extension to be worked out this year...

Chidi29
05-11-2010, 09:30 PM
Um, every pay you pointed out is a Pass play. So you make my argument for me.

Sure, you can find a fumble or two, that killed a drive, but what was it? 46 sacks this year? or was that last year? Interceptions, sacks, mistakes in the redzone in the passing game, don't happen if guess what, you Run the Ball in just some of those spots.

Thanks though for making my point. Which is, Bring Us More Balance, not pass happy crap that doesn't provide points.

Edit, you did in fact point out one running play that failed...and it was a QB sneak.

I'm pointing out that those problems aren't Arians' fault. How could they be? They are bad decisions, dropped passes, fumbles. Nothing Arians can control. He helped put the team into the red zone; they have to execute.

If only we were effective running the ball in short yard situations. We don't have a power offense and an average line last year.

To put things in perspective, Willie Parker was more efficient in short yard situations than Mendenhall was last year.

We were actually most effective out of shotgun in those situations by a fairly wide margin.

Again, we're balanced. I'd like for you to prove me wrong. You saying we're balanced does not make it so.

Prok
05-11-2010, 09:33 PM
I'm pointing out that those problems aren't Arians' fault. How could they be? They are bad decisions, dropped passes, fumbles. Nothing Arians can control. He helped put the team into the red zone; they have to execute.

If only we were effective running the ball in short yard situations. We don't have a power offense and an average line last year.

To put things in perspective, Willie Parker was more efficient in short yard situations than Mendenhall was last year.

We were actually most effective out of shotgun in those situations by a fairly wide margin.

Again, we're balanced. I'd like for you to prove me wrong. You saying we're balanced does not make it so.

Chidi, would you agree that our offense (including Ben) seems alot more fluid and effective when we run no-huddle ?

Chidi29
05-11-2010, 09:41 PM
Chidi, would you agree that our offense (including Ben) seems alot more fluid and effective when we run no-huddle ?

Yes, definitely. But that is to be expected.

But I disagree with your take that we could run it on a regular basis.

Prok
05-11-2010, 09:47 PM
Yes, definitely. But that is to be expected.

But I disagree with your take that we could run it on a regular basis.

Yeah, most do disagree. lol

I'm just not a fan of BA's gameplanning. I think the no-huddle would be a great fit for Ben but too many would frown on it.

tony hipchest
05-11-2010, 10:26 PM
I'm pointing out that those problems aren't Arians' fault. How could they be? They are bad decisions, dropped passes, fumbles. Nothing Arians can control. He helped put the team into the red zone; they have to execute.

If only we were effective running the ball in short yard situations. We don't have a power offense and an average line last year.

To put things in perspective, Willie Parker was more efficient in short yard situations than Mendenhall was last year.

willie scored a ton of td's in goal to go and red-zone situations... especially with a fullback.

but i guess none of that is in bruce "i dont believe in fullbacks in my offense" arians' control, huh?

:doh:

i wonder why we were ineffective running the ball in short yardage situations. we seemed pretty effective the 2 times we used legursky as a fullback instead of a lightweight shrimp like davis. :noidea:

tube517
05-11-2010, 11:28 PM
I think I read Hines saying the No huddle would be too exhausting to run often. It is obvious that Ben thrives in that offense.

Yeah, most do disagree. lol

I'm just not a fan of BA's gameplanning. I think the no-huddle would be a great fit for Ben but too many would frown on it.

HometownGal
05-12-2010, 05:20 AM
I'm pointing out that those problems aren't Arians' fault. How could they be? They are bad decisions, dropped passes, fumbles. Nothing Arians can control. He helped put the team into the red zone; they have to execute.

If only we were effective running the ball in short yard situations. We don't have a power offense and an average line last year.

To put things in perspective, Willie Parker was more efficient in short yard situations than Mendenhall was last year.

We were actually most effective out of shotgun in those situations by a fairly wide margin.

Again, we're balanced. I'd like for you to prove me wrong. You saying we're balanced does not make it so.

Stop it! You're making total sense! :horror: :chuckle:

zulater
05-12-2010, 06:59 AM
Ed also said that he expects an extension to be worked out this year...

http://espn.go.com/espnradio/player?rd=1#/podcenter/?autoplay=1&id=5180963&callsign=WEAEAM ( 37-41 minute mark)

Yeah and he also gave credence to the rumors that the Rooney's wanted Arians gane and that Ben intervened to save his job.

Some people have gone to great lengths to discredit the reporting of Laird and Wexall on this matter. Well add Bouchette to the list. Something happened ( imo) and there's still some lingering smoke haunting the room.

fansince'76
05-12-2010, 07:09 AM
willie scored a ton of td's in goal to go and red-zone situations... especially with a fullback.

but i guess none of that is in bruce "i dont believe in fullbacks in my offense" arians' control, huh?

You must be talking about the '06 season when he scored 13 TDs (and we incidentally finished 8-8). After all, he's never had more than 5 TDs in any other season. :noidea:

revefsreleets
05-12-2010, 09:52 AM
LMAO at this thread. Wexell and 1250 are still right (even though they were 100% wrong) according to some who totally sold out on the rumors. It's quite Orwellian, actually...

Does chidi realize if he defends Arians, he risks denial of membership to the "Arians Haters social club" (aka the braintrust)?

Chidi29
05-12-2010, 01:14 PM
willie scored a ton of td's in goal to go and red-zone situations... especially with a fullback.

but i guess none of that is in bruce "i dont believe in fullbacks in my offense" arians' control, huh?

:doh:

i wonder why we were ineffective running the ball in short yardage situations. we seemed pretty effective the 2 times we used legursky as a fullback instead of a lightweight shrimp like davis. :noidea:

I don't think you can prove that first statement. To be honest, I think you're making baseless claims on the hope that no one calls you on it.

Let's see if that statement is factual, shall we?

A look back on Parker's run in short yard situations (Any down that is three yards or less)

W.Parker right guard to PIT 13 for no gain (N.Harper; J.Kearse).(No First)
W.Parker up the middle to TEN 45 for 1 yard (J.Haye, S.Tulloch).(No first)
W.Parker right guard to TEN 45 for no gain (S.Tulloch, K.Vanden Bosch).(No First)

W.Parker right tackle to PIT 42 for 12 yards (C.Tillman, D.Manning).

W.Parker left tackle to CIN 1 for no gain (R.Williams; J.Fanene).(No FIrst)
W.Parker right tackle to PIT 25 for 4 yards (P.Sims; D.Peko).
W.Parker right guard to PIT 33 for 1 yard (R.Williams; R.Geathers).(No first)
W.Parker left end pushed ob at CIN 4 for 10 yards (K.Rivers).

W.Parker right guard to CLV 23 for 2 yards (D.Bowens). (First Down)

W.Parker right guard to CLV 21 for 4 yards (B.McDonald). FUMBLES (B.McDonald), RECOVERED by CLV-A.Elam at CLV 16. A.Elam to CLV 16 for no gain (H.Miller).

W.Parker right guard to PIT 35 for 2 yards (D.Edwards, R.Lewis).(No First Down)
W.Parker right guard to PIT 37 for 2 yards (J.McClain, J.Johnson).(First Down)
W.Parker right guard to PIT 48 for 3 yards (K.Gregg, L.Webb).

W.Parker right tackle to GB 29 for 9 yards (A.Bigby).

W.Parker up the middle to PIT 31 for 4 yards (P.Merling).

-------

As you can tell, only ONE of his conversions came in the red zone. Everything else was outside of it.

Chidi29
05-12-2010, 01:37 PM
http://espn.go.com/espnradio/player?rd=1#/podcenter/?autoplay=1&id=5180963&callsign=WEAEAM ( 37-41 minute mark)

Yeah and he also gave credence to the rumors that the Rooney's wanted Arians gane and that Ben intervened to save his job.

Some people have gone to great lengths to discredit the reporting of Laird and Wexall on this matter. Well add Bouchette to the list. Something happened ( imo) and there's still some lingering smoke haunting the room.

I'm sure there was discussion over whether or not to keep Arians. Tomlin does talk to every coach and goes through an evaluation with each person, just as he does with the players. And I'm sure Tomlin talked to the higher-ups about it as well.

The question is: how serious were the talks? I coudn't tell you that but to me, I hope (and don't think) they were that serious.

I don't know much about Laird, but I don't trust him a lot on the Arians issue. He was the guy who broke the "news" that Arians was going to get canned.

Chidi29
05-12-2010, 01:38 PM
Does chidi realize if he defends Arians, he risks denial of membership to the "Arians Haters social club" (aka the braintrust)?

Oh no! How can I live without being in that exclusive club! :chuckle:

zulater
05-12-2010, 04:26 PM
I'm sure there was discussion over whether or not to keep Arians. Tomlin does talk to every coach and goes through an evaluation with each person, just as he does with the players. And I'm sure Tomlin talked to the higher-ups about it as well.

The question is: how serious were the talks? I coudn't tell you that but to me, I hope (and don't think) they were that serious.

I don't know much about Laird, but I don't trust him a lot on the Arians issue. He was the guy who broke the "news" that Arians was going to get canned.

There's been reports, rumors, whatever to the effect that Laird's source was Arians, who genuinely thought he was a goner. If true that would explain why Laird felt comfortable going with the story, and why he never revealed his source after the story fell apart. It would also fit in with the Ben coming to the rescue part too.


We'll probably never know exactly what was said by who and when, but I really don't think Laird, Wexall, and Bouchette would put out lies.

MasterOfPuppets
05-12-2010, 04:35 PM
I'm sure there was discussion over whether or not to keep Arians. Tomlin does talk to every coach and goes through an evaluation .
nope ... there was never so much as a thought let alone a conversation reguarding arians employment status with the steelers... they said so ....:noidea:

but then again.. its up to you to decide who you believe .... i have no idea why these lyin players make stuff up..

"We were told early this morning that either you get in line or you'll get kicked out of line — you're going to be traded or you're not going to be here," right tackle Willie Colon said. "If your conduct is going to play a part in you not being a good football player, they're going to get rid of you."

Coach Mike Tomlin denied delivering such a message, but defensive end Aaron Smith confirmed remarks were made to the Steelers "as a group."

Prok
05-12-2010, 04:37 PM
Oh no! How can I live without being in that exclusive club! :chuckle:

:chuckle:

Hey I am in an exclusive club. The anti-LeBeau 3-4 club.

:thumbsup:

fansince'76
05-12-2010, 04:40 PM
We'll probably never know exactly what was said by who and when, but I really don't think Laird, Wexall, and Bouchette would put out lies.

Knowingly lie? No. But I don't put it past any of them to report conjecture as fact.

SteelMember
05-12-2010, 04:45 PM
Hey I am in an exclusive club. The anti-LeBeau 3-4 club.

:thumbsup:

Hmmm. Sounds like a lonely club.

Prok
05-12-2010, 04:47 PM
Hmmm. Sounds like a lonely club.

Oh yeah it is. I talk to myself ALOT. I hate it when i end up arguing with myself.

:banging:


:chuckle:

Chidi29
05-12-2010, 04:48 PM
There's been reports, rumors, whatever to the effect that Laird's source was Arians, who genuinely thought he was a goner. If true that would explain why Laird felt comfortable going with the story, and why he never revealed his source after the story fell apart. It would also fit in with the Ben coming to the rescue part too.


We'll probably never know exactly what was said by who and when, but I really don't think Laird, Wexall, and Bouchette would put out lies.

Oh, no, I'm not accususing them of outright lying. I'm fairly sure none of them are doing that and that Laird's source just was really off.

I'm just saying that it's tough to trust any new reports when everyone got burnt last time. Fool me once...

zulater
05-12-2010, 05:03 PM
Oh, no, I'm not accususing them of outright lying. I'm fairly sure none of them are doing that and that Laird's source just was really off.

I'm just saying that it's tough to trust any new reports when everyone got burnt last time. Fool me once...

Fair enough, and in the end Arians was retained, which is fine by me. I'm not a huge fan of his, but he's not a scrub, so we just wait and hope for him to show us why he should stay on for another 3 or 4 years.

:tt02:

zulater
05-12-2010, 05:05 PM
Knowingly lie? No. But I don't put it past any of them to report conjecture as fact.

Maybe, or maybe the story evolved and changed as they were reporting it?:noidea:

rich4eagle
05-12-2010, 05:09 PM
too funny blame it on Arians in league that passing is easier than running...........that works for going obsolete

rich4eagle
05-12-2010, 05:32 PM
Well, are we going to be the Steelers or just another team.............most recent posts are another team posts

tony hipchest
05-12-2010, 06:22 PM
I don't think you can prove that first statement. To be honest, I think you're making baseless claims on the hope that no one calls you on it.

Let's see if that statement is factual, shall we? A look back on Parker's run in short yard situations (Any down that is three yards or less)

W.Parker right guard to PIT 13 for no gain (N.Harper; J.Kearse).(No First)
W.Parker up the middle to TEN 45 for 1 yard (J.Haye, S.Tulloch).(No first)
W.Parker right guard to TEN 45 for no gain (S.Tulloch, K.Vanden Bosch).(No First)

W.Parker right tackle to PIT 42 for 12 yards (C.Tillman, D.Manning).

W.Parker left tackle to CIN 1 for no gain (R.Williams; J.Fanene).(No FIrst)
W.Parker right tackle to PIT 25 for 4 yards (P.Sims; D.Peko).
W.Parker right guard to PIT 33 for 1 yard (R.Williams; R.Geathers).(No first)
W.Parker left end pushed ob at CIN 4 for 10 yards (K.Rivers).

W.Parker right guard to CLV 23 for 2 yards (D.Bowens). (First Down)

W.Parker right guard to CLV 21 for 4 yards (B.McDonald). FUMBLES (B.McDonald), RECOVERED by CLV-A.Elam at CLV 16. A.Elam to CLV 16 for no gain (H.Miller).

W.Parker right guard to PIT 35 for 2 yards (D.Edwards, R.Lewis).(No First Down)
W.Parker right guard to PIT 37 for 2 yards (J.McClain, J.Johnson).(First Down)
W.Parker right guard to PIT 48 for 3 yards (K.Gregg, L.Webb).

W.Parker right tackle to GB 29 for 9 yards (A.Bigby).

W.Parker up the middle to PIT 31 for 4 yards (P.Merling).

-------

As you can tell, only ONE of his conversions came in the red zone. Everything else was outside of it.

:toofunny::toofunny::toofunny:

while i dismiss (and scoff at) your words and numbers, please excuse the poor quality but the fullback is plain as day.

the tape dont lie-

5By7NYIHnwk&feature=fvsr

Chidi29
05-12-2010, 06:36 PM
:toofunny::toofunny::toofunny:

while i dismiss (and scoff at) your words and numbers, please excuse the poor quality but the fullback is plain as day.

the tape dont lie-

5By7NYIHnwk&feature=fvsr

You scoff and dismiss my numbers because....?

Because they prove you wrong., perhaps?

What really is too funny are the people that get their arguments torn down resort to the "stats don't count, they don't matter" line.

I was referring to this past year because this is the only way you could compare Mendenhall and Parker's numbers.

Your four minute highlight film is pretty useless anyway when you don't give someone the entire sample size; instead, pieces that just skew numbers. I gave you Parker's entire sample size from last year.

Just admit that you made a baseless claim and got called on it.

tony hipchest
05-12-2010, 06:44 PM
You scoff and dismiss my numbers because....?

Because they prove you wrong., perhaps?

What really is too funny are the people that get their arguments torn down resort to the "stats don't count, they don't matter" line.

I was referring to this past year because this is the only way you could compare Mendenhall and Parker's numbers.

Your four minute highlight film is pretty useless anyway when you don't give someone the entire sample size; instead, pieces that just skew numbers. I gave you Parker's entire sample size from last year.

Just admit that you made a baseless claim and got called on it. youre either freaking crazy or on crack.

willie scored a ton of td's in goal to go and red-zone situations... especially with a fullback.

but i guess none of that is in bruce "i dont believe in fullbacks in my offense" arians' control, huh?


not only did willie hardly even play last year, they didnt even have a true fullback on the roster.

so you can STFU now cause your stats are shit (even if you do have revs as your biggest cheerleader). :cheer:

Chidi29
05-12-2010, 07:29 PM
youre either freaking crazy or on crack.



not only did willie hardly even play last year, they didnt even have a true fullback on the roster.

so you can STFU now cause your stats are shit (even if you do have revs as your biggest cheerleader). :cheer:

This whole conversation stemmed from me saying that Parker was a more effecient short-yardage back than Mendenhall was last year. That should be a slap in the face to Mendenhall (Who I do like, don't get me wrong).

Last year, with the circumstances being THE SAME, Parker was more effecient. You can't spin that any way after I proved that it wasn't because of red zone carries that aided in that.

That's what I said you have to look at when comparing the two backs. You can't look at different years because they have wildly different variables that will skew the numbers (something you don't seem to have a concept of).

You can act like a child and tell me to "STFU", but the numbers still won't change. Go ahead and continue to act like a kid. I have no problem with gaining more credibility when everyone sees how you're dodging the numbers that prove you wrong.

rich4eagle
05-12-2010, 08:55 PM
This whole conversation stemmed from me saying that Parker was a more effecient short-yardage back than Mendenhall was last year. That should be a slap in the face to Mendenhall (Who I do like, don't get me wrong).

Last year, with the circumstances being THE SAME, Parker was more effecient. You can't spin that any way after I proved that it wasn't because of red zone carries that aided in that.

That's what I said you have to look at when comparing the two backs. You can't look at different years because they have wildly different variables that will skew the numbers (something you don't seem to have a concept of).

You can act like a child and tell me to "STFU", but the numbers still won't change. Go ahead and continue to act like a kid. I have no problem with gaining more credibility when everyone sees how you're dodging the numbers that prove you wrong.

Issue is the 'Steelers are looking for a muscle back that can be force on third down and short...................between Redman and the new Ga Tech guy they have that ......

Parker was a choice between him and Moore............less money and more all around good choice and good move Steelers

Prok
05-12-2010, 09:12 PM
Issue is the 'Steelers are looking for a muscle back that can be force on third down and short...................between Redman and the new Ga Tech guy they have that ......

Parker was a choice between him and Moore............less money and more all around good choice and good move Steelers

Good point. But we still have to see if the rookie will pan out for us. But IF he does, we've gotten a bit better in short yardage situations.

Mind you we STILL have to improve in the game-planning and play-calling IMO.

tony hipchest
05-12-2010, 09:19 PM
that settles it. you must be on PCP.

This whole conversation stemmed from me saying that That should be a slap in the face to Mendenhall (Who I do like, don't get me wrong).

. WTF are you even talking about. i dont even recall anyone being in a conversation with you in this thread, let alone anything stemming from said imaginary conversation.

the only thing you have proven is you have no idea what a true fullback is.

this may sadden you but it is something that arians doesnt believe in.

his words and proven as FACT. willie always ran better behind one... also proven as FACT.

you can go bury your head in a pile of sand, now.

Parker was a more effecient short-yardage back than Mendenhall was last year.

:rofl:

1. parker was the 1st to voice his opinion about arians abandonning the fullback.
2. parker couldnt even steal any playing time from mendehall unless rashard was hurt, needed a blow, or benched for punative reasons. he most certainly wasnt a situational back put in on short yardage situations. you sound like Ultimate Nuck Fknuckle trying to hype up mewelde moore now. you might as well start talking about 'suddeness and glide' and john kuhn, now...

= FAIL


3. parker has been dumped by the steelers, and is fighting for a roster spot with the redskins for a fraction of the salary.

if parker was more efficient, it means he was the MOST efficient. care to explain why the rooneys and coaching staff decided to get rid of their MOST efficient short yardage back?

probably because they know (like most knowledgable fans) that he really aint shit as a short yardage back w/o a true fullback.

what part of that basic football concept is so hard for you to understand?

MACH1
05-12-2010, 10:43 PM
Good point. But we still have to see if the rookie will pan out for us. But IF he does, we've gotten a bit better in short yardage situations.

Mind you we STILL have to improve in the game-planning and play-calling IMO.

What? You don't like a 5 wide empty backfield on 3rd and 1?

tube517
05-12-2010, 10:59 PM
Against the Browns........u know we hit rock bottom when we did that against the Stains

What? You don't like a 5 wide empty backfield on 3rd and 1?

HometownGal
05-13-2010, 06:38 AM
What I'm not getting in this thread is why in the bloody blue hell are we reverting back to what happened last season? :banging: We have a brand spankin' new season just around the corner and some of you are still hung up on bits and pieces of what happened or didn't happen last year?

Keeping with the topic of this thread (which has been hijacked multiple times) - it was strongly suggested to BA by the boss hog to incorporate more of a running game to give the Steelers O a more balanced attack. I'm all in favor of this as long as the OL can effectively do its job and my jury is still out on that. I'd also love to see the return of the FB. It all boils down to whether or not BA wants to keep his job as the Steelers OC. I have the utmost faith that he does and will do what has been asked of him but he can't do it alone. The guys on his O unit have to pull their weight and do what he asks of them which is to execute (there's that E word again :chuckle:) those plays.

Dino 6 Rings
05-13-2010, 03:20 PM
What I'm not getting in this thread is why in the bloody blue hell are we reverting back to what happened last season? :banging: We have a brand spankin' new season just around the corner and some of you are still hung up on bits and pieces of what happened or didn't happen last year?

Keeping with the topic of this thread (which has been hijacked multiple times) - it was strongly suggested to BA by the boss hog to incorporate more of a running game to give the Steelers O a more balanced attack. I'm all in favor of this as long as the OL can effectively do its job and my jury is still out on that. I'd also love to see the return of the FB. It all boils down to whether or not BA wants to keep his job as the Steelers OC. I have the utmost faith that he does and will do what has been asked of him but he can't do it alone. The guys on his O unit have to pull their weight and do what he asks of them which is to execute (there's that E word again :chuckle:) those plays.

The relevance, I believe is that of all the off season moves we have made thus far, with bringing in some new talent, bringing back some proven talent, and a solid 1st pick in the draft, the one thing we never did address, was the OC Position.

Now, will he run it more? That question shouldn't even need to be asked. The fact is, we as a team need to run it more. Thread after thread and stat after stat I showed, time and time again, that his situational football offensive scheme was lacking. That he called brain numbing plays in key spots trying to out think himself, when sometimes, just sometimes, an I formation Full Back run up the Gut on 3rd and 3 is the right call because the D is in a Dime and didn't get their right guys in position. His play calling was so predictable last year, we'd throw it all day, the defense would bend not break, the Oline had no "surge" later in games because they hadn't run the ball all day and had been on their heels the entire time and didn't wear down on the defensive line (standard ball control running means you beat them up early to dominate them later) so we'd pass pass pass, then all of sudden with 8 mins left in the 3rd go to run it on 3rd and short and get stuffed because we never established or wore out the defense. Now, the one question, we really have, is will Bruce change his stripes? Will he actually use a FB in situational spots that call for a Full Back and not some roster scrub that's on the roster as a TE/HB/FB/Cover Kicks guy.

So its relevant.

And I thought, the Haters weren't the Brain Trust? I thought the lovers were the Brain Trust and the haters were something else?

NBBFers! Not Big Bruce Fans...4 LIFE!!!!!!!

MasterOfPuppets
05-13-2010, 03:29 PM
Will he actually use a FB in situational spots that call for a Full Back and not some roster scrub that's on the roster as a TE/HB/FB/Cover Kicks guy.


considering a true fullback STILL is not on the roster, i think its safe to say the answer is....no :popcorn:
unless of course you consider a 270lb DT who played some FB in highschool to be a true FB.....:noidea:

Chidi29
05-13-2010, 06:27 PM
that settles it. you must be on PCP.

WTF are you even talking about. i dont even recall anyone being in a conversation with you in this thread, let alone anything stemming from said imaginary conversation.

the only thing you have proven is you have no idea what a true fullback is.

this may sadden you but it is something that arians doesnt believe in.

his words and proven as FACT. willie always ran better behind one... also proven as FACT.

you can go bury your head in a pile of sand, now.



:rofl:

1. parker was the 1st to voice his opinion about arians abandonning the fullback.
2. parker couldnt even steal any playing time from mendehall unless rashard was hurt, needed a blow, or benched for punative reasons. he most certainly wasnt a situational back put in on short yardage situations. you sound like Ultimate Nuck Fknuckle trying to hype up mewelde moore now. you might as well start talking about 'suddeness and glide' and john kuhn, now...

= FAIL


3. parker has been dumped by the steelers, and is fighting for a roster spot with the redskins for a fraction of the salary.

if parker was more efficient, it means he was the MOST efficient. care to explain why the rooneys and coaching staff decided to get rid of their MOST efficient short yardage back?

probably because they know (like most knowledgable fans) that he really aint shit as a short yardage back w/o a true fullback.

what part of that basic football concept is so hard for you to understand?

The conversation stems from me talking about our difficulties running the ball in short yard situations last year. That's what you orginally responded to.

Who is talking about a fullback? No where did I bring that up in my orginal point.

My point was.

Willie Parker being a better short yardage back statistically than Mendenhall proved how futile it was to try to run in a lot of situations last year and is the reason I can't fault Arians for wanting to pass.

I don't understand how there can be any kind of disconnect here.

You responded by saying how Parker had a true FB in previous years (Though he really hasn't had one since 2007).

I responded by saying how in order to compare Parker and Mendenhall, you have to use the sam year. Reason being I used last year when the circumstances would be the same (same line, lack of fullback as you claim) and how Parker still edged out as a more effective back in those situations.

I'm not saying he was a short-yardage back; he certainly wasn't. Just then when given the opportunity, he picked up the first down 60% of the time compared to Mendenhall's 59%.

Mewelde Moore? John Kuhn? Where did all that came from. And you claim I'm the one on drugs....

There were plenty of reasons why Parker was let go; namely, Mendenhall is the better back in general and it was obvious that Parker is in serious decline.

Me saying he was more effecient does not mean it's good. It's like saying that Bruce Gradkowski was more effecient than Russell. It is just a relative comparison, and the main point being...

We couldn't run the ball in short yardage situations last year.

That's been my point all along. Nothing about me advocating Parker. Rather, pointing out the fact that when Willie Parker is more effecient than Mendenhall, there are good reasons why Arians chose to pass like he did (Because we were more efficient).

Chidi29
05-13-2010, 06:29 PM
. Now, the one question, we really have, is will Bruce change his stripes? Will he actually use a FB in situational spots that call for a Full Back and not some roster scrub that's on the roster as a TE/HB/FB/Cover Kicks guy.


NBBFers! Not Big Bruce Fans...4 LIFE!!!!!!!

Maybe when the front office actually decides to go get one....

Dino 6 Rings
05-14-2010, 02:47 PM
Cleveland 13

Pittsburgh 6

NBBFers RULE!

Prok
05-14-2010, 03:21 PM
What? You don't like a 5 wide empty backfield on 3rd and 1?

LOL

Hey, i LOVE the fact that we have a top QB and would also love to see him run more no-huddle. Reason being? Scared to death of Bruce's play-calling. lol

WH
05-14-2010, 04:59 PM
What will end first? The Ariansgate or this
http://math.yorku.ca/infinity_old/Images/newInfinity.jpg

HometownGal
05-14-2010, 05:26 PM
Cleveland 13

Pittsburgh 6

NBBFers RULE!

BADHUIS Rules! :banana: :banana:

(Beating A Dead Horse Until It Shits)

tony hipchest
05-14-2010, 05:50 PM
BADHUIS Rules! :banana: :banana:

(Beating A Dead Horse Until It Shits)well to be fair, we have already seen ALL other areas of concern addressed with the missing puzzle pieces. the only thing that hasnt yet been addressed (and we wont see until september) is arians play calling and putting his players and offense in the best situation to win games.

so being as it is, this will probably be a relevant topic until there is something tangible we can see.

past history says arians can be stubborn.

Keeping with the topic of this thread (which has been hijacked multiple times) - it was strongly suggested to BA by the boss hog to incorporate more of a running game to give the Steelers O a more balanced attack. I'm all in favor of this as long as the OL can effectively do its job and my jury is still out on that. I'd also love to see the return of the FB. It all boils down to whether or not BA wants to keep his job as the Steelers OC. I have the utmost faith that he does and will do what has been asked of him but he can't do it alone. The guys on his O unit have to pull their weight and do what he asks of them which is to execute (there's that E word again ) those plays.


i agree with this about 90%. with exception to this part-

I have the utmost faith that he does and will do what has been asked of him

i have the utmost faith in the rooneys, colbert, lebeau and tomlin. their resume speaks for itself. this is arians 4th year on the job. in that span we have 1 single playoff game where our running attack was worth more than a waqrm bucket of piss, and that was in 08 vs the chargers.

we need more than that, especially with the steelers penchant for playing playoff footbal, outdoors, at home, in the frigid month of january.

ours is the only division w/o a dome or warm weather team. it is smart to tailor your offense to fit those conditions.

the rooneys demand that.

HometownGal
05-14-2010, 06:17 PM
i have the utmost faith in the rooneys, colbert, lebeau and tomlin. their resume speaks for itself. this is arians 4th year on the job. in that span we have 1 single playoff game where our running attack was worth more than a waqrm bucket of piss, and that was in 08 vs the chargers.

we need more than that, especially with the steelers penchant for playing playoff footbal, outdoors, at home, in the frigid month of january.

ours is the only division w/o a dome or warm weather team. it is smart to tailor your offense to fit those conditions.

the rooneys demand that.

I don't know why the hell I'm bothering to reply to this because you and I will never in a million years agree on this subject, but here goes . . .

BA's resume doesn't look all that bad. In 5 seasons with the Steelers, he played a role in the Steelers 2005 and 2008 AFCC's and subsequent 2005 and 2008 SB wins. No matter how you want to slice it, he is a part of that history. I know, I know - the Steelers won in SPITE of him. :blah::blah::blah: Running game, schmunning game. Whatever it takes to win, I'm all for it because winning is really all that matters when that final second ticks off that game clock imho. I'm all for balance in the O but that running game can only go so far when they have a couple of turnstiles and penalty mongers on that OL. Obviously, Art II and the Steelers FO have faith in BA or he would have been out on his chubby little ass at season's end last year.

You want to give Lebeau a free pass for his unit's abysmal performance last season but I refuse to do so. Sure Lebeau is a legend and a HOF lock - I won't deny that, but good units rise above adversity (the loss of Troy and Aaron last season) and Lebeau's unit simply did not. They blew I don't know how many leads that BA's offense secured and at times resembled a high school D instead of the stellar D unit we are accustomed to seeing on that field.

tony hipchest
05-14-2010, 06:34 PM
I don't know why the hell I'm bothering to reply to this because you and I will never in a million years agree on this subject, but here goes . . .

BA's resume doesn't look all that bad. In 5 seasons with the Steelers, he played a role in the Steelers 2005 and 2008 AFCC's and subsequent 2005 and 2008 SB wins. No matter how you want to slice it, he is a part of that history. I know, I know - the Steelers won in SPITE of him. :blah::blah::blah: Running game, schmunning game. Whatever it takes to win, I'm all for it because winning is really all that matters when that final second ticks off that game clock imho. I'm all for balance in the O but that running game can only go so far when they have a couple of turnstiles and penalty mongers on that OL. Obviously, Art II and the Steelers FO have faith in BA or he would have been out on his chubby little ass at season's end last year.

You want to give Lebeau a free pass for his unit's abysmal performance last season but I refuse to do so. Sure Lebeau is a legend and a HOF lock - I won't deny that, but good units rise above adversity (the loss of Troy and Aaron last season) and Lebeau's unit simply did not. They blew I don't know how many leads that BA's offense secured and at times resembled a high school D instead of the stellar D unit we are accustomed to seeing on that field.actually, like i said, i was pretty much 90% in agreement with you.

the '76 steelers were a legendary and historical unit. yet they could not rise above the injuries. it happens. the offense, rooneys, chuck noll, and the coordinators get a pass.

arians is going into his 4th year as steelers OC. i dont really know how much credit i can give a WR coach for winning the superbowl. that was wisenhunts offens and he proved his mettle by getting the lowly, down trodden cardinals to their 1st SB 2 years later with a FANTASTIC offense.

and while i dont credit arians for the 05 SB win, i certainly dont discredit him for the dismal 8-8 season we had in the final year.

likewise, to be fair to him, i dont even count his stint with the browns. that wouldnt be fair to him, at all.

year 4 is good enough as a make or break year for him and im all for giving him that chance. have been from the start.

i hope he is just as capable of making a philisophical change, as ben is to making lifestyle changes.

at this point, i cant guarantee that ben wont screw up again either (and he has left himself open for extortion and more false charges).

we will see in september. untill then it will be talked about.

in the meantime, great news is coming out of mini-camps in regards to troy and a. smiths health and participation. hampton even looks great! :tt02:

steel9guy
05-14-2010, 09:10 PM
I'm ready to see the board in September after we only score 30 points in the first game. I'll bet on 6 Arians threads after the 1st game.

Chidi29
05-15-2010, 03:28 PM
Cleveland 13

Pittsburgh 6

NBBFers RULE!

Is that really your response for everything?

WH
05-15-2010, 04:22 PM
Is that really your response for everything?

it's the apex of BA's poor playcalling.

Chidi29
05-15-2010, 04:25 PM
it's the apex of BA's poor playcalling.

And if it really was that poor, you'd think Dino would have a little variety in his answers. That's the equivalent of screaming "six" to any other football fan. It's unorginal and unintelligent.

I'll let the Arians-haters corner that market.

Chidi29
05-15-2010, 04:27 PM
For anyone who is interested, I just did a write up on another forum comparing Arians to past Super Bowl champions.

It can be found here:

http://boards.espn.go.com/boards/mb/mb?sport=nfl&id=pit&tid=6833984&tsn=81

Begins with post #88.

WH
05-15-2010, 04:54 PM
I'll let the Arians-haters corner that market.

it's healthier for you if you let that be the case.

Steelerfreak58
05-15-2010, 04:56 PM
I think what bothers most people about Arians is his inconsistency he will call a series and march down field and score 7 with the offense like a defense was not even there mixing in a lot of different things and making the offense work. Then he will come out for 3 or 4 series of 3 and outs and make it look like he didn't remember what he did the first time around.

Sure it comes down to some execution on the offense part but many times his play calling leaves you wondering WTF?

Its the inconsistency as an offense and his play calling that makes many wary to be a fan of his.

pete74
05-15-2010, 06:50 PM
I think what bothers most people about Arians is his inconsistency he will call a series and march down field and score 7 with the offense like a defense was not even there mixing in a lot of different things and making the offense work. Then he will come out for 3 or 4 series of 3 and outs and make it look like he didn't remember what he did the first time around.

Sure it comes down to some execution on the offense part but many times his play calling leaves you wondering WTF?

Its the inconsistency as an offense and his play calling that makes many wary to be a fan of his.

i agree and it really gets me pissed off sometimes

revefsreleets
05-17-2010, 10:26 AM
The odd thing is people act like the Steelers were clueless as to the nature of the type of offense Arians likes to run...like they hired (and REPEATEDLY retained) a dude who likes to pass the ball on accident or something.

It's like a car company who are known for making great trucks wanting to expand their business model and ALSO be known for making great cars. So they bring in a new CEO from a great CAR company in order to facilitate the change. The guy makes great cars, has a lot of success, sales are up BUT truck sales slump a bit. The Arians haters are akin to people bitching because the truck sales slid 10% even though overall sales are up 50%. They simply fail to see the big picture, can't see the forest through the trees, and are just fixated on that 10% number.

These threads just make me shake my head and chuckle to myself.

MasterOfPuppets
05-17-2010, 11:11 AM
and then the president of the company had to step in and tell the CEO he needs do a better job of building trucks because those inflated car sales paid small dividends which didn't get the company out of the red....:coffee:

WH
05-17-2010, 11:43 AM
and then the president of the company had to step in and tell the CEO he needs do a better job of building trucks because those inflated car sales paid small dividends which didn't get the company out of the red....:coffee:

I see what you did there.

43Hitman
05-17-2010, 12:00 PM
and then the president of the company had to step in and tell the CEO he needs do a better job of building trucks because those inflated car sales paid small dividends which didn't get the company out of the red....:coffee:

Well played sir, well played. :hatsoff:

Texasteel
05-17-2010, 12:18 PM
I think Rooney likes BA as the OC otherwise I think he would be gone, but sees areas that need to be improved. Just like MOPs president may be happy with his CEO but sees areas that need to be improved.

Now if the CEO ignores the presidents suggestion, and things do not get better, then he probably will not be so happy with him.

I think we will see a much better year this year, a more balanced offense, a much tougher defense, and hopefully happier fans.

tony hipchest
05-17-2010, 06:51 PM
The odd thing is people act like the Steelers were clueless as to the nature of the type of offense Arians likes to run...like they hired (and REPEATEDLY retained) a dude who likes to pass the ball on accident or something.
.indeed that is odd.

the rooneys most certainly werent clueless to the type of defense tomlin liked to run when they hired him (he prefered the 4-3 "tampa-2"). they (true to the rooney way) gave him full autonomy, and the freedom to run the team as he saw fit, but they strongly suggested that he consider retaining dick lebeau and not trying to fix what wasnt broke. :noidea: he wasnt stubborn about it and didnt pretend to know better and resisted the urges to tinker with it.

what is REALLY even more odd is that people act like arians is not completely clueless as to the nature of the type of offense the STEELERS like to run.

strange that he cut his teeth in the nfl under cowher and wisenhunt (anyone remember this guy?). he was the guy hired to replace mularkey and re-establish the run. while mularkey was a damn good coordinator, he too, forgot the "steelers way".

sorry revs, but your little example there paints it as the tail wagging the dog (which according to art II, simply isnt the case).

my bet is arians will no longer be the 'dude who likes to pass the ball' any longer (although that is a bet i would make with much reservation).

a great opportunity lies on his plate. an opportunity to reivent himself and prove he isnt a one trick pony. an opportunity to save his job and not be fishing with larry z come this time next year.

i wish him the best. as he goes, the steelers offense goes.

revefsreleets
05-18-2010, 09:30 AM
So car sales being up 50% is NOT the goal of the people who hired the CEO to....um....increase car sales?

That's actually a perfect example of the faulty logic being employed by Arians haters. The stated GOAL of hiring the new CEO was to increase car sales. Period. Truck sales slid horrifically during the last gas price hikes, and the company wants to be diverse and keep up with the times, so they focus more on car sales. Yet, some less astute and more backwards people can only stay focused on the past, i.e. truck sales. And they will cling to that until the bitter end. That kind of "thinking" only compounds the wrongness...the guys in the board room who are complaining about the 10% truck sale slide will soon be the guys out of a job.

Dino 6 Rings
05-19-2010, 04:30 PM
Is that really your response for everything?

Actually its my attempted humor at the entire subject by pointing to the most glaring of all the arguments that can be made against Bruce and his style.

Which, I have done game by game play by play break downs of his play calls, the situations and the results. All throughout this forum, going back before last season, even before our SB Win. Heck, people were ready to kill the guy during the QB sweep call against the Jags 3 seasons ago in the playoffs. Pretty sure I'm all over that thread with a break down of some of his calls.

So do a little reading, a little digging and you'll find your "answers"

The Cleveland vs Pittsburgh score from last year is my Icing on the Cake, used in a light way to inject humor by pointing out a game in which the play calling was so awful that no one, with any football sense can defend.

I also like this one. "we got greedy with the pass"

So once in a while, in this all inclusive merged super hate on Bruce thread, I'll be using both, the 13-6 score from last season, the "greedy with the pass" quote, and might even use the "I doubt I'll get to run to throw the ball" quote of bens against the Broncos 4 years ago when the Broncos had the worst rush defense in the league. Go review the 07 Broncos Steelers game. We ran it a total of 24 times. Nice offense jackhole (that's directed at Bruce). Trying to out think the room, we lost to a pathetic team. Same season we lost to the Jets I think. I imagine those stats are no better.

Chidi29
05-19-2010, 05:04 PM
Actually its my attempted humor at the entire subject by pointing to the most glaring of all the arguments that can be made against Bruce and his style.

Which, I have done game by game play by play break downs of his play calls, the situations and the results. All throughout this forum, going back before last season, even before our SB Win. Heck, people were ready to kill the guy during the QB sweep call against the Jags 3 seasons ago in the playoffs. Pretty sure I'm all over that thread with a break down of some of his calls.

So do a little reading, a little digging and you'll find your "answers"

The Cleveland vs Pittsburgh score from last year is my Icing on the Cake, used in a light way to inject humor by pointing out a game in which the play calling was so awful that no one, with any football sense can defend.

I also like this one. "we got greedy with the pass"

So once in a while, in this all inclusive merged super hate on Bruce thread, I'll be using both, the 13-6 score from last season, the "greedy with the pass" quote, and might even use the "I doubt I'll get to run to throw the ball" quote of bens against the Broncos 4 years ago when the Broncos had the worst rush defense in the league. Go review the 07 Broncos Steelers game. We ran it a total of 24 times. Nice offense jackhole (that's directed at Bruce). Trying to out think the room, we lost to a pathetic team. Same season we lost to the Jets I think. I imagine those stats are no better.

I went back and looked at your post history and couldn't really find much about Arians. Pardon me for not realizing you have made serious posts on the matter. As I'm sure you can understand, when someone relatively new to the boards sees someone just constantly repeating themselves, a bad first impression is going to happen. My fault.

I don't know about you, but our rushing numbers are pretty good. In the comparison I just did that I linked on here, Arians' numbers have quickly fallen in line of the champs.

Do we need to be more effective? Definitely in a lot of facets of the running game. And as I've said all this time, is that Arians fault? Not really. He can only work with what he has.

tony hipchest
05-19-2010, 05:36 PM
Do we need to be more effective? Definitely in a lot of facets of the running game. And as I've said all this time, is that Arians fault? Not really. He can only work with what he has.in his 1st year on the job he had the leading rusher going into week 17 and a fullback.

this goes back to our earleir argument where you said there are things that arians cannot control. well if he cant control the offense, what the hell is he doing as offensive coordinator?

if the rooneys gave him all the ingredients and told him to bake a cake, he would throw the egg whites and yolk into the trash, and then put the shells into the batter. then he would say "my cakes dont need flour". :cake:

no wonder it falls flat, is hard to swallow, and leaves a bad taste in their mouth. :doh:

the most a steelers offense has scored under arians is 5 td's. he has done that twice in his 3 years. whiz and mularkey routinely did that twice a year every year. :noidea:

MasterOfPuppets
05-19-2010, 05:40 PM
in his 1st year on the job he had the leading rusher going into week 17 and a fullback.

this goes back to our earleir argument where you said there are things that arians cannot control. well if he cant control the offense, what the hell is he doing as offensive coordinator?

if the rooneys gave him all the ingredients and told him to bake a cake, he would throw the egg whites and yolk into the trash, and then put the shells into the batter. then he would say "my cakes dont need flour". :cake:

no wonder it falls flat, is hard to swallow, and leaves a bad taste in their mouth. :doh:

the most a steelers offense has scored under arians is 5 td's. he has done that twice in his 5 years. whiz and mularkey routinely did that twice a year every year. :noidea:
with less talent ...:popcorn:

MasterOfPuppets
05-19-2010, 05:46 PM
He can only work with what he has.
thats true ... your only as good as the tools you have to work with.... but when you choose to throw your hammer away and instead use a wrench to pound nails... that your own stupidity.

tony hipchest
05-19-2010, 05:49 PM
with less talent ...:popcorn:last year we arguably had the greatest offensive talent since the 70 steelers. just imagine if we had a true talented FB isntead of the wasted roster space of c. davis, and d. johnson.

mularkey had the 3rd ranked offense in the league in 2001 (this with kordell and an injured jerome and after 3 consecutive non playoff seasons).

then he got fired for abandonning jerome and the run, while embracing the "tommy gun" offense. whiz was brought in with the promis to re-establish the steelers way and running game = 15-1 in 2004 and SB win in 2005.

thats true ... your only as good as the tools you have to work with.... but when you choose to throw your hammer away and instead use a wrench to pound nails... that your own stupidity. even better than my bill parcels grocery/cake analogy.

MasterOfPuppets
05-19-2010, 06:03 PM
last year we arguably had the greatest offensive talent since the 70 steelers. just imagine if we had a true talented FB isntead of the wasted roster space of c. davis, and d. johnson.

mularkey had the 3rd ranked offense in the league in 2001 (this with kordell and an injured jerome and after 3 consecutive non playoff seasons).

then he got fired for abandonning jerome and the run, while embracing the "tommy gun" offense. whiz was brought in with the promis to re-establish the steelers way and running game = 15-1 in 2004 and SB win in 2005.

even better than my bill parcels grocery/cake analogy.

i recall a quote from tomlin saying ..."we're not going to try to put a square peg in a round hole"...... so the draft goes by, no fullback added. instead they pick up a DT to try to convert to fullback.... square peg...meet round hole ...:banging:

Chidi29
05-19-2010, 08:22 PM
in his 1st year on the job he had the leading rusher going into week 17 and a fullback.

this goes back to our earleir argument where you said there are things that arians cannot control. well if he cant control the offense, what the hell is he doing as offensive coordinator?

if the rooneys gave him all the ingredients and told him to bake a cake, he would throw the egg whites and yolk into the trash, and then put the shells into the batter. then he would say "my cakes dont need flour". :cake:

no wonder it falls flat, is hard to swallow, and leaves a bad taste in their mouth. :doh:

the most a steelers offense has scored under arians is 5 td's. he has done that twice in his 3 years. whiz and mularkey routinely did that twice a year every year. :noidea:

It's not that he can't contrl the offense, it's just that he isn't always able to control the players that end up on the roster. That isn't his final call. That is Tomlins.

If Tomlin, Rooney, Colbert, whoever really wanted a blocking FB, they would have gotten one. Arians does not have authority over any of them. If Tomlin wants it, he'll get it.

I see all these "Given the tools but chosing to use something that isn't going to work as well" analogies. You guys are doing the same thing.

You want a power offense without a FB, without an above average blocking #2, and an interior line that has had its struggles. Why on earth would you want to try to pound the rock all game with that?

You compare it to the fact that he's been "given all the ingredients". All? You sure about that? He doesn't have, and hasn't had, a lot of what you guys want. It looks like just right now is he finally starting to get a couple of those pieces in getting a potential top-tier lineman like Pouncey. And guys like Colon and Kemoeatu are just starting to reach their potential. And when you had Ben (Paid big), Ward, Holmes, and Miller (paid big) of course you're going to pass a lot.

Chidi29
05-19-2010, 08:22 PM
thats true ... your only as good as the tools you have to work with.... but when you choose to throw your hammer away and instead use a wrench to pound nails... that your own stupidity.

When has he done that? At least, repeatedly.

TheWarDen86
05-19-2010, 08:28 PM
last year we arguably had the greatest offensive talent since the 70 steelers. just imagine if we had a true talented FB isntead of the wasted roster space of c. davis, and d. johnson.

mularkey had the 3rd ranked offense in the league in 2001 (this with kordell and an injured jerome and after 3 consecutive non playoff seasons).

then he got fired for abandonning jerome and the run, while embracing the "tommy gun" offense. whiz was brought in with the promis to re-establish the steelers way and running game = 15-1 in 2004 and SB win in 2005.

even better than my bill parcels grocery/cake analogy.

Mularky didn't get fired. He left for a HC position (Bills?).

MasterOfPuppets
05-19-2010, 08:38 PM
It's not that he can't contrl the offense, it's just that he isn't always able to control the players that end up on the roster. That isn't his final call. That is Tomlins.

If Tomlin, Rooney, Colbert, whoever really wanted a blocking FB, they would have gotten one. Arians does not have authority over any of them. If Tomlin wants it, he'll get it.


You want a power offense without a FB, without an above average blocking #2, and an interior line that has had its struggles. Why on earth would you want to try to pound the rock all game with that?

.
who made the statement ...."there's never been a fullback in my offense, and there never will be " ?
A colbert
B tomlin
C arians

did you see the comments by the players this year saying they're putting much more emphasis on the running game this year ? that means they are actually PRACTICING run blocking . which leads me to believe they DIDN'T spend much time on it in the past.

Chidi29
05-19-2010, 08:56 PM
who made the statement ...."there's never been a fullback in my offense, and there never will be " ?
A colbert
B tomlin
C arians

did you see the comments by the players this year saying they're putting much more emphasis on the running game this year ? that means they are actually PRACTICING run blocking . which leads me to believe they DIDN'T spend much time on it in the past.

Funny thing is that Arians has used McHugh and Johnson at the fullback spot the past two years. You guys harp on the quote and fail to watch what is actually going on.

And if they wanted a fullback, they'd have one. Again, Arians does not have authority over what Tomlin wants. If he does, there is a serious problem in management.

I'd say all the comments about the running game are made because that's what reporters are talking about when not talking about Ben.

tony hipchest
05-19-2010, 08:57 PM
Mularky didn't get fired. He left for a HC position (Bills?).your right, and it was the bills. for some reason, i remember him being on the hot seat and that he was likely to be replaced.... atleast thats how they played it when whiz was promoted.

It's not that he can't contrl the offense, it's just that he isn't always able to control the players that end up on the roster. That isn't his final call. That is Tomlins.

If Tomlin, Rooney, Colbert, whoever really wanted a blocking FB, they would have gotten one. Arians does not have authority over any of them. If Tomlin wants it, he'll get it.
totally agree. ultimately tomlin bears all responsibility.

in one respect i admire him sticking his neck out on the line for arians, and in another, i wish he wouldnt take such risks and gambles with his steelers career.

i want him to remain coach for a long time. it seems he was a year to late in dumping larry z and bob shitthabedsky. they turned out to be poor hires from the get go even though he won a SB w/ them.

keep in mind, i still believe that if you look at the past three steeler drafts, you will see arians and lebeaus fingerprints all over them.

steelerdude15
05-19-2010, 09:02 PM
i want him to remain coach for a long time. it seems he was a year to late in dumping larry z and bob shitthabedsky. they turned out to be poor hires from the get go even though he won a SB w/ them.
Agreed, the Steelers did do some pretty good upgrades IMO.

Chidi29
05-19-2010, 09:30 PM
keep in mind, i still believe that if you look at the past three steeler drafts, you will see arians and lebeaus fingerprints all over them.

Do they have some say in these types of things? I'm sure they submit their input and it is considered.

But ultimately, if Tomlin wants something done, it'll get done. Tomlin isn't asking, "Hey Bruce, can we bring this blocking fullback in?" and Arians responding, "No. I don't want it. We're not going to do it" and that being the end of the conversation.

Ultimately, it's Tomlin's call. He'll get the credit and he should get the blame.

Dino 6 Rings
05-20-2010, 09:08 AM
Don't they have a new line coach this year as well? That'll help explain the more aggressive approach to run blocking and the running game.

That and having your starting QB riding the pine for 4-6 games to start the season.

zulater
05-20-2010, 10:00 AM
This thread went beyond the point of redudant about 14 pages ago. :blah::blah:


:toofunny:

revefsreleets
05-20-2010, 02:30 PM
There seems to be some confusion over a base offense and a situational one. Arians saying he's never running a FB means we aren't ever going to see the Steelers working predominately out of the I formation. or a pro-set with the traditional FB and RB. It certainly doesn't literally mean they'll never run a FB, because we've done that.

In today's far more complex game, it just makes more sense to have the extra receiver on the field...and it's relatively unimportant if fans understand or appreciate that fact or not.

HometownGal
05-21-2010, 05:50 AM
This thread went beyond the point of redudant about 14 pages ago. :blah::blah:


:toofunny:

Ya think? :chuckle:

Arians sucks.

No he doesn't.

Yes he does.

Your momma wears army boots.

:blah::blah::blah:

Dino 6 Rings
05-21-2010, 09:21 AM
My momma does in fact wear Army Boots, she finds them very comfortable and useful when kicking asss.