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View Full Version : Should the Pens consider trading Malkin?


zulater
05-13-2010, 09:46 AM
No, I'm not a Malkin hater, I love Geno. But it occurs to me that while Geno has played the good soldier to date, eventually he's going to want to emerge from Sid's shadow and be the face of a franchise. He's one of the top ten players in the league, you just can't expect him to happily play second banana through his peak years. So before we get to a "dying alive" scenario somewhere down the road maybe it's time to move him now? If you can get the right deal that is. Big if i know, I'm certainly not endorsing a fire sale. But if you do the research find the right partner and deal I think you strongly consider making the move.

There's also another factor to consider here as well, that being Jordon Staal who's quickly growing into a near elite player himself. How much longer can we stifle Staal by keeping him on the 3rd line? How many second line centers are better than Jordy right now? It's great having the best 3rd line center in hockey, but if you're defecient in other areas is it the smartest thing you can do?

It's like a farmer who has the 3 best tractors John Deere makes ,but his plow's and bush hogs are all second rate. Maybe his farming would be more effecient if he used his resources better and downgraded a tractor and upgraded his other equipment?

There's also money to consider.. Throwing so much money into one position in a league with a salary cap probably isn't the wisest thing to do either.

Anyway it's always better to make a trade a year too early than a week too late. It will be interesting to see if the Pens see it the same as I do? :noidea:

X-Terminator
05-13-2010, 10:23 AM
I had a guy ask this last Saturday at an estate sale I was working, and for exactly the same reason. And I will give you the same answer I gave him.

NO. CHANCE. IN. HELL.

If you want the Pens to remain a legitimate Stanley Cup contender, then you need elite talents like Malkin. Plus, there has been absolutely no indication from anyone associated with Malkin on the team or in real life that he is "tired of living in Sid's shadow." And besides, you will never get equal value in any trade involving Malkin, so they're better off keeping him around even if they WERE considering it, which they are not and never will.

Funny, we actually had people who thought the Pens should trade Sid early in the season when he was struggling, proving once again how fickle Pittsburgh fans in general and Pens fans in particular can be.

Indo
05-13-2010, 11:41 AM
I had a guy ask this last Saturday at an estate sale I was working, and for exactly the same reason. And I will give you the same answer I gave him.

NO. CHANCE. IN. HELL.

If you want the Pens to remain a legitimate Stanley Cup contender, then you need elite talents like Malkin. Plus, there has been absolutely no indication from anyone associated with Malkin on the team or in real life that he is "tired of living in Sid's shadow." And besides, you will never get equal value in any trade involving Malkin, so they're better off keeping him around even if they WERE considering it, which they are not and never will.

Funny, we actually had people who thought the Pens should trade Sid early in the season when he was struggling, proving once again how fickle Pittsburgh fans in general and Pens fans in particular can be.

^^^^What he said.

And NO! We shouldn't get rid of Fleury, either!

steelerdude15
05-13-2010, 12:15 PM
No! We should not trade Malkin. Malkin is very key part of our team and a reason why they won the cup last year. He's a great player and great teammate. I would be simply heartbroken if Malkin were to leave the team.

steelpride12
05-13-2010, 01:14 PM
NO NO NO! I don't know how anyone could ever even ask that question. Your reason's are farfetched to say the least and he is a star and will be in this league his entire career. The Pen's are a playoff contender these last few season's because of the help of him and he is a superstar and always will be.

SteelCityMan786
05-13-2010, 02:10 PM
HELL NO!!!!!!!!

stlrtruck
05-13-2010, 02:52 PM
Hey while we're at it, why don't we trade away Fleury because he didn't play his greatest the last two games of the series....

I'm just saying :noidea:

St33lersguy
05-13-2010, 03:15 PM
Why would you want to trade so much talent just because you already have your face of the franchise?

zulater
05-13-2010, 04:20 PM
Everyone's making this something it''s not. If you're not smart enough to figure out that great players will eventually want to find their own spotlight then don't come crying to me in a couple years when things start to hit the wall with Geno.

Also not one of you have given a moments thought to Staal and what his future should and will be. You think he wants to be a 3rd liner forever?

And without looking can any of you name the 3rd line center on the Pens previous cup winers?

Yeah it's so vital to be 3 deep at center while your wingers mostly suck.

X-Terminator
05-13-2010, 04:38 PM
Everyone's making this something it''s not. If you're not smart enough to figure out that great players will eventually want to find their own spotlight then don't come crying to me in a couple years when things start to hit the wall with Geno.

Also not one of you have given a moments thought to Staal and what his future should and will be. You think he wants to be a 3rd liner forever?

And without looking can any of you name the 3rd line center on the Pens previous cup winers?

Yeah it's so vital to be 3 deep at center while your wingers mostly suck.

Uh, yeah...that would have been Bryan Trottier. Maybe you've heard of him? Don't think a guy who won 6 Stanley Cups as a player "sucks." :noidea: BTW, the 4th line center on those teams was Phil Bourque...you know, that guy on the radio with The Legend? So yeah, it's pretty damn important to be strong down the middle if you want to win a Cup. The only difference between those teams and this one is that the wingers didn't suck.

Anyway, how long did Lemieux and Jagr play together? How about Sakic and Forsberg? Zetterberg, Datsyuk and Lidstrom? So it's not out of the realm of possibility that Crosby, Malkin and Staal will be together here for the next 5-10 years.

I suppose that any player can be traded. Even Wayne Gretzky was traded. But the reasoning behind it...nah, sorry. Not buying it. Malkin does not strike me as being so selfish that he'd actually want to be traded just so he can be "the guy." If anything, I think he likes that Sid has all of the spotlight, so that he can just play his game and not have to be the one dealing with the media game in and game out. Look, Geno doesn't have much left to prove to anyone. He's already won a scoring title, led the league in playoff scoring and a Conn Smythe. The latter 2 Crosby has not done yet. Let's not forget that he's also being paid like the elite superstar player that he is. So I highly doubt he's going to be "Mr. Moper" and force a trade in the next 2 years.

SMR
05-13-2010, 05:16 PM
Uh, yeah...that would have been Bryan Trottier. Maybe you've heard of him? Don't think a guy who won 6 Stanley Cups as a player "sucks." :noidea: BTW, the 4th line center on those teams was Phil Bourque...you know, that guy on the radio with The Legend? So yeah, it's pretty damn important to be strong down the middle if you want to win a Cup. The only difference between those teams and this one is that the wingers didn't suck.

Anyway, how long did Lemieux and Jagr play together? How about Sakic and Forsberg? Zetterberg, Datsyuk and Lidstrom? So it's not out of the realm of possibility that Crosby, Malkin and Staal will be together here for the next 5-10 years.

I suppose that any player can be traded. Even Wayne Gretzky was traded. But the reasoning behind it...nah, sorry. Not buying it. Malkin does not strike me as being so selfish that he'd actually want to be traded just so he can be "the guy." If anything, I think he likes that Sid has all of the spotlight, so that he can just play his game and not have to be the one dealing with the media game in and game out. Look, Geno doesn't have much left to prove to anyone. He's already won a scoring title, led the league in playoff scoring and a Conn Smythe. The latter 2 Crosby has not done yet. Let's not forget that he's also being paid like the elite superstar player that he is. So I highly doubt he's going to be "Mr. Moper" and force a trade in the next 2 years.

Ya nailed it, bud! :applaudit::applaudit:

zulater
05-13-2010, 07:41 PM
Uh, yeah...that would have been Bryan Trottier. Maybe you've heard of him? Don't think a guy who won 6 Stanley Cups as a player "sucks." :noidea: BTW, the 4th line center on those teams was Phil Bourque...you know, that guy on the radio with The Legend? So yeah, it's pretty damn important to be strong down the middle if you want to win a Cup. The only difference between those teams and this one is that the wingers didn't suck.

Anyway, how long did Lemieux and Jagr play together? How about Sakic and Forsberg? Zetterberg, Datsyuk and Lidstrom? So it's not out of the realm of possibility that Crosby, Malkin and Staal will be together here for the next 5-10 years.

I suppose that any player can be traded. Even Wayne Gretzky was traded. But the reasoning behind it...nah, sorry. Not buying it. Malkin does not strike me as being so selfish that he'd actually want to be traded just so he can be "the guy." If anything, I think he likes that Sid has all of the spotlight, so that he can just play his game and not have to be the one dealing with the media game in and game out. Look, Geno doesn't have much left to prove to anyone. He's already won a scoring title, led the league in playoff scoring and a Conn Smythe. The latter 2 Crosby has not done yet. Let's not forget that he's also being paid like the elite superstar player that he is. So I highly doubt he's going to be "Mr. Moper" and force a trade in the next 2 years.

That's fine, and that's a reasoned responce.:applaudit:

I'm happy with Malkin, this thread has nothing to do with yesterday's result. I'd have posed the same hypothetical at some point even if the Pens had won another Cup this year.

I'm just wondering how and when this team is going to acquire some quality wingers? And while Trottier was valuable, he wasn't near as valuable as wingers like Mark Rechi, Kevin Stevens, Rick Tochett, Joey Mullen and Jaromir Jagr were to those Cup runs. It's ridiculous that with centers like we have that we don't have one winger that you'd project to a 30 goal season like all of the aforementioned wingers from our old Cup teams annually would project to.

And again you're still ignoring the emerging force that is Jordon Staal. Jordon's improved by leaps and bounds this past season. His play is still ascending, wouldn't you agree? He's arguably a first line center on many teams, is it fair to ask him to continue on in the role of a 3rd line center? Is it the best utilization of available talent?

zulater
05-13-2010, 07:45 PM
NO NO NO! I don't know how anyone could ever even ask that question. Your reason's are farfetched to say the least and he is a star and will be in this league his entire career. The Pen's are a playoff contender these last few season's because of the help of him and he is a superstar and always will be.

What exactly is "farfetched" with my reasons?

:coffee:

pittsburghp8baller
05-13-2010, 07:49 PM
I brought this up a couple years ago right before Malkin signed his new contract. I read an article about us getting Dustin Brown and Jack Johnson AND a first (which was used on Drew Doughty).

If Malkin didnt want to play second fiddle to Crosby he wouldnt of accepted a contract extention like that.

He would of said 'see ya later' and would signed for a butt load else where... (ironically probably LA).

Malkin doesnt strike me as someone who could be the 'face' of a franchise. Skill wise, he is as talented as anyone else in this league, but something just seems missing. Maybe its his english, but i dont quite see him being put in charge of a franchise.

Zulator
You think he wants to be a 3rd liner forever?

dont know how many 3rd line centers play nearly 20 minutes a game. Nik Backstrom, only played 45 more seconds per game as the Capitals FIRST Line Center.

zulater
05-13-2010, 07:57 PM
I brought this up a couple years ago right before Malkin signed his new contract. I read an article about us getting Dustin Brown and Jack Johnson AND a first (which was used on Drew Doughty).

If Malkin didnt want to play second fiddle to Crosby he wouldnt of accepted a contract extention like that.

He would of said 'see ya later' and would signed for a butt load else where... (ironically probably LA).

Malkin doesnt strike me as someone who could be the 'face' of a franchise. Skill wise, he is as talented as anyone else in this league, but something just seems missing. Maybe its his english, but i dont quite see him being put in charge of a franchise.

Zulator


dont know how many 3rd line centers play nearly 20 minutes a game. Nik Backstrom, only played 45 more seconds per game as the Capitals FIRST Line Center.

It's also about who you play with and when. But then again with our wingers there's not a helluva lot of difference between the first and third lines, so I guess you got a point. :hatsoff:

Boy I wish we had some better wings. :doh:

SteelCityMan786
05-13-2010, 08:57 PM
It's also about who you play with and when. But then again with our wingers there's not a helluva lot of difference between the first and third lines, so I guess you got a point. :hatsoff:

Boy I wish we had some better wings. :doh:

Not like the re is something called FA coming up. I hear it starts on July 1.

X-Terminator
05-13-2010, 09:13 PM
That's fine, and that's a reasoned responce.:applaudit:

I'm happy with Malkin, this thread has nothing to do with yesterday's result. I'd have posed the same hypothetical at some point even if the Pens had won another Cup this year.

I'm just wondering how and when this team is going to acquire some quality wingers? And while Trottier was valuable, he wasn't near as valuable as wingers like Mark Rechi, Kevin Stevens, Rick Tochett, Joey Mullen and Jaromir Jagr were to those Cup runs. It's ridiculous that with centers like we have that we don't have one winger that you'd project to a 30 goal season like all of the aforementioned wingers from our old Cup teams annually would project to.

And again you're still ignoring the emerging force that is Jordon Staal. Jordon's improved by leaps and bounds this past season. His play is still ascending, wouldn't you agree? He's arguably a first line center on many teams, is it fair to ask him to continue on in the role of a 3rd line center? Is it the best utilization of available talent?

I'm not ignoring Staal's presence on the team. Personally, I think his future is riding shotgun with Malkin on the 2nd line - he has, after all, put up his best numbers while playing with him. He will not be a 3rd line center forever. His brother Eric moved to wing mid-season, and he flourished after struggling most of the season playing center. I see Jordan doing the same. Then they can use Max Talbot or one of the young centers they have in the minors to take over the 3rd line duties. We'll see what happens, but I think that is what Shero has had in mind all along.

As for the winger problem, I've been complaining about this for the past 4 years. Thing is, with them having so much money tied up in the Big 5, there's only so much money left to go around, so it hurts their ability to bring in quality wingers. The only way they could get a winger like you described is if they developed one of their own, and that is where they have failed miserably and why I was so against them trading Caputi for Poni. After Tangradi, they have absolutely no one who legitimately projects to even a 25-goal scorer at wing, which is what I think Tangradi will be - and remember they had to trade for him. They should trade in some of their massive young depth on D to try and land a legit top-6 winger - that's the only other way they'll be able to get one outside of the draft, especially if they re-sign Gonchar.

KeiselPower99
05-13-2010, 10:17 PM
Trading Malkin is the dumbest thing Ive read in awhile.

zulater
05-13-2010, 10:30 PM
Trading Malkin is the dumbest thing Ive read in awhile.

You don't read much I gather. You certainly didn't take the time to read the opening post, or if you did your comprehension skills are certainly lacking.

I'm fine that you disagree with the thought of trading Malkin. But there is sound logic to it and the possibility that it will someday happen is more than remote.

Shea
05-13-2010, 10:33 PM
I don't know how to respond to this thread without being a major bitch.

zulater
05-13-2010, 10:36 PM
I don't know how to respond to this thread without being a major bitch.

How about taking some time and reading through it first and consider what is being said rather than flying off the handle in an emotional snit and responding to something that's never been suggested?

7SteelGal43
05-13-2010, 11:05 PM
no way.

Shea
05-13-2010, 11:14 PM
How about taking some time and reading through it first and consider what is being said rather than flying off the handle in an emotional snit and responding to something that's never been suggested?

I read the thread.

Again, don't know how to respond without being a bitch.

Trying to change my ways, but damn if you aren't making it hard.

(Trade Malkin? ..... what a stupid dumbass! :doh:)

zulater
05-13-2010, 11:21 PM
I read the thread.

Again, don't know how to respond without being a bitch.

Trying to change my ways, but damn if you aren't making it hard.

(Trade Malkin? ..... what a stupid dumbass! :doh:)

Yeah you're right, you can't respond without being a bitch, and a dumb one at that.( you asked for it)

zulater
05-13-2010, 11:34 PM
OK it's dumb to point out that the Pens are tying up a helluva lot of money at one position?

It's dumb to point out that in a salary cap driven league using so much money at any one position could prove detrimental to other positions of near equal importance?

It's dumb to point out that a logjam at center could stifle the growth of one of the best young players on the team?

It's dumb to point out that a young superstar might not want to always be the second banana on his team?

Look I understand how great Malkin is, I understand how hard it would be to get near equal value in return. But I also undertand the nature of sports and the nature of elite athletes. I also understand that Eastern European players can be tempermental, what's good for them today isn't neccessarily going to be to their liking a couple years down the road.

And I also understand it's best to sell when it's on your terms and your hand isn't being forced. I remember the Jagr trade, and what all proceeded it and went into it, maybe most of you don't?

Again any trade of Malkin would have to be for a very good package, no firesale is being requested here. And if the right deal isn't out there I'm fine with that too. I'm doing nothing more than bringing up the possibility if there was a way that it could be done to the overall long term benifit of the team. That's all.

Geez.

Shea
05-13-2010, 11:45 PM
Yeah you're right, you can't respond without being a bitch, and a dumb one at that.( you asked for it)

:sofunny:

You're best post yet. :thumbsup:

Edman
05-13-2010, 11:53 PM
Wow, the Pens don't make a conference final for once, and we're already calling to blow up the team. Eh, that's Pittsburgh for us. Lose and it's time to fire everyone.

zulater
05-13-2010, 11:56 PM
Wow, the Pens don't make a conference final for once, and we're already calling to blow up the team. Eh, that's Pittsburgh for us. Lose and it's time to fire everyone.

You have no idea what I suggested or why so better not to comment on it.

:coffee:

zulater
05-13-2010, 11:56 PM
:sofunny:

You're best post yet. :thumbsup:

:chuckle:

X-Terminator
05-14-2010, 07:32 AM
OK it's dumb to point out that the Pens are tying up a helluva lot of money at one position?

It's dumb to point out that in a salary cap driven league using so much money at any one position could prove detrimental to other positions of near equal importance?

It's dumb to point out that a logjam at center could stifle the growth of one of the best young players on the team?

It's dumb to point out that a young superstar might not want to always be the second banana on his team?

Look I understand how great Malkin is, I understand how hard it would be to get near equal value in return. But I also undertand the nature of sports and the nature of elite athletes. I also understand that Eastern European players can be tempermental, what's good for them today isn't neccessarily going to be to their liking a couple years down the road.

And I also understand it's best to sell when it's on your terms and your hand isn't being forced. I remember the Jagr trade, and what all proceeded it and went into it, maybe most of you don't?

Again any trade of Malkin would have to be for a very good package, no firesale is being requested here. And if the right deal isn't out there I'm fine with that too. I'm doing nothing more than bringing up the possibility if there was a way that it could be done to the overall long term benifit of the team. That's all.

Geez.

It's not dumb to point out any of that, but there's an awful lot of assumptions being made. Again, there's no indication that Malkin would be happier being the big kahuna rather than "that other guy." Not only that, as has been pointed out, why would he have signed the identical deal that Crosby had signed the year before, especially when at the time, a KHL team (I believe it was his hometown team in Magnitogorsk) offered him $11 million a year? If he really wanted to be "the guy," he'd have taken that KHL deal. The fact that he didn't speaks volumes. Plus, let's not forget that he and Crosby have the same agent, J.P. Barry, who also happens to represent Sergei Gonchar. Don't think that doesn't have a major impact on what Malkin does.

Bottom line is that the Penguins will not trade Malkin, they will make every attempt to re-sign him before his contract is up in 2014, and I think eventually Staal will move to wing as people had hinted at before he was even drafted.

HometownGal
05-14-2010, 05:34 PM
Hell Freakin NO WAY!!! Nor should we trade Fleury or Sid and we need to get Serg signed for another 2.

I think we do need to get a couple of good wingers to flank him and Sid, though.

KeiselPower99
05-14-2010, 06:58 PM
You don't read much I gather. You certainly didn't take the time to read the opening post, or if you did your comprehension skills are certainly lacking.

I'm fine that you disagree with the thought of trading Malkin. But there is sound logic to it and the possibility that it will someday happen is more than remote.

I read alot. I dont see a positive reason to trade him. It would hurt the overall depth of the team. I understand the things we could get in return. Just because he was injured for the season and didnt have a good playoff season isnt the reason to trade a 100 point player.

zulater
05-16-2010, 01:40 PM
http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/sports/penguins/s_681429.html

Three centers. One Stanley Cup.

Four years into general manager Ray Shero's plan to provide Pittsburgh hockey fans with a perennial contender, there is a numbers crunch.

It's more than the $21.4 million in salary-cap space the Penguins have committed to Sidney Crosby, Evgeni Malkin (each at $8.7 million) and Jordan Staal ($4 million) each of the next three seasons.

That trio has powered the Penguins to 38 playoff wins and one Cup title.

However, the Penguins are also a one-and-done title team. Crosby, Malkin and Staal, who played injured, combined for four goals in a second-round loss to the Canadiens.

One-and-done doesn't sit well with an ownership that spent to the salary-cap ceiling. Mario Lemieux and Ron Burkle want to win again next season and for seasons to follow.

There are three steps Shero can take this offseason to get the Penguins back to where they once belonged.

Field offers for Malkin

Crosby and Malkin will be more dominant with a young, skilled wing to grow with.

However, given the cap constraints, the only way to land that wing is to move one of them for a package that would upgrade the roster and replenish a system that lacks impact forwards beyond top prospect Eric Tangradi.

Staal's development as a Selke Trophy candidate for his defensive work and offensive upside -- at 21, he has produced three 20-goal seasons as a third-liner -- gives the Penguins the option of trading Crosby or Malkin. Staal is a prototype No. 2 center and an emerging dressing-room leader.

The Penguins won't trade Crosby, who aside from being team captain is the franchise's face. Malkin, already a scoring champion and playoff MVP at 23, is the guy to shop.

Shero should start making calls to his contemporaries, and his first words should be: "Make me an offer for Malkin." It must include a top-line wing, a top-pairing defenseman, two roster players and either two top prospects or two first-round picks.

To give up Geno, the Penguins must get the world in return. If they get it, their Cup window won't be limited to three seasons, as it will be with the three-center plan

X-Terminator
05-16-2010, 04:24 PM
Shero should start making calls to his contemporaries, and his first words should be: "Make me an offer for Malkin." It must include a top-line wing, a top-pairing defenseman, two roster players and either two top prospects or two first-round picks.

To give up Geno, the Penguins must get the world in return. If they get it, their Cup window won't be limited to three seasons, as it will be with the three-center plan

Which pretty much means there's no chance in hell of that happening. There isn't a team in the league who will give up that much for Malkin and set his franchise back years. Not only that, Malkin will have absolutely no margin for error and must produce huge numbers every season. Can he handle that kind of pressure? I seriously doubt it.

He isn't going anywhere. Trade Staal if they really want to bring in a top-line winger. You need top-end talent if you're going to win the Cup, period.

God, the sheer panic around here after the Pens' loss is getting ridiculous.

zulater
05-16-2010, 05:36 PM
Which pretty much means there's no chance in hell of that happening. There isn't a team in the league who will give up that much for Malkin and set his franchise back years. Not only that, Malkin will have absolutely no margin for error and must produce huge numbers every season. Can he handle that kind of pressure? I seriously doubt it.

He isn't going anywhere. Trade Staal if they really want to bring in a top-line winger. You need top-end talent if you're going to win the Cup, period.

God, the sheer panic around here after the Pens' loss is getting ridiculous.

Where's the panic? Basically what both of us have proposed is a proactive move, but only if it's at the right price.

And you'd be surprised what you can realize in a trade if you're dealing from a position of strength especially if your trade partner is desperate and either trying to save his job or sell out his building.( preferably both) . It's only when your hand has been weakened ( "dying alive" for instance) that you screw yourself in a trade.

I'm telling you, chances are you take a three year peak into the future and you're not going to see Sid and Geno on the same team. That's not hate, that's not panic, that's just one logical assumption you can come to if you know the history of elite athletes.

I'll tell you this much, if Mario had someway found his way onto the Oilers in his early years I'll guarantee you that he'd have been miserable playing in Gretzky's shadow within 3 years. (If you don't believe do some research on the man). And I can guarantee you Mario will be keeping a cloose eye on Geno looking for the early signs of discontent.

Last thing. Regardless of what happens I'll always love Malkin. Half of you here destroying me over a simpe hypothetical probably booed our franchishes second best player mercilessly on every shift after he left the Pens. I've always thought Jagr's treatment by a preponderance of Penguins fans is shamefull.

X-Terminator
05-16-2010, 06:38 PM
Where's the panic? Basically what both of us have proposed is a proactive move, but only if it's at the right price.

And you'd be surprised what you can realize in a trade if you're dealing from a position of strength especially if your trade partner is desperate and either trying to save his job or sell out his building.( preferably both) . It's only when your hand has been weakened ( "dying alive" for instance) that you screw yourself in a trade.

I'm telling you, chances are you take a three year peak into the future and you're not going to see Sid and Geno on the same team. That's not hate, that's not panic, that's just one logical assumption you can come to if you know the history of elite athletes.

I'll tell you this much, if Mario had someway found his way onto the Oilers in his early years I'll guarantee you that he'd have been miserable playing in Gretzky's shadow within 3 years. (If you don't believe do some research on the man). And I can guarantee you Mario will be keeping a cloose eye on Geno looking for the early signs of discontent.

Last thing. Regardless of what happens I'll always love Malkin. Half of you here destroying me over a simpe hypothetical probably booed our franchishes second best player mercilessly on every shift after he left the Pens. I've always thought Jagr's treatment by a preponderance of Penguins fans is shamefull.

Yeah, I did boo Jagr. Why? Because he deserved it. There was no reason at all for him to say he was "dying alive" when for 3 and a half seasons, he was THE man on the Pens between Mario's first retirement and his comeback. He had his chance to lead the team to a Cup and he couldn't get it done. So you're telling me that for a year and a half, he was so unhappy because Mario was back and getting all of the press, that he forced a trade? No freaking way, and the real reason why he was upset was because he knew the Pens wouldn't be able to pay him what he felt he was worth. And answer this - if he really was so concerned about being "the man," why then did he basically mail in his performances while he was in Washington? He was "the man" then, and did nothing before being shipped to New York. No, Jagr was an extremely selfish person, so far at the other spectrum from Malkin that they aren't even in the same area code as far as personality goes.

Again, there is absolutely no way any team will give up that much in a trade. None. We're talking about an era where if you want to have long-term success, you need to do it via the draft, because the salary cap prevents teams from attempting to "buy" championship teams every year by signing every big-name free agent they can. Look at how much heat Brian Burke is taking for trading his #1 pick to the Bruins for Phil Kessel, which is going to turn out to be either Taylor Hall or Tyler Seguin, depending on who the Oilers prefer. The Bruins' goalie Tuukka Rask was drafted by the Leafs, and was promptly traded to the Bruins for Andrew Raycroft. Oops! (Though admittedly that was their former GM who did that and not Burke.) Burke also gave up a #1 next year too in that Kessel deal. How in the world is a GM supposed to rebuild when he's giving away top-5 draft picks? I can't see any team giving up 4 players, 2 of them being top-line players, plus 2 #1 picks for anyone, even if it was Crosby or Ovechkin. It will not happen. The Pens will never get equal value in any trade for Malkin, plain and simple. Mario isn't stupid - while you may think he's looking for any signs of discontent with Malkin, he also knows the backlash he and Shero will get from the fans if he trades him, and especially if he trades him and gets nowhere near equal value for him. And evidently, you and the author of the story aren't alone, because I read on another board a rumor that the Pens may deal both Malkin and Gonchar to either LA or St. Louis. There's a better chance of me suiting up and playing for the Pens next season than that ever happening.

Still think this is nothing more than panic because the Pens lost, because apparently they have become the Steelers and have to win the Stanley Cup every year for the fans to be satisfied.

zulater
05-16-2010, 07:25 PM
Yeah, I did boo Jagr. Why? Because he deserved it. There was no reason at all for him to say he was "dying alive" when for 3 and a half seasons, he was THE man on the Pens between Mario's first retirement and his comeback. He had his chance to lead the team to a Cup and he couldn't get it done. So you're telling me that for a year and a half, he was so unhappy because Mario was back and getting all of the press, that he forced a trade? No freaking way, and the real reason why he was upset was because he knew the Pens wouldn't be able to pay him what he felt he was worth.

Yeah I know it was all about money with Jaromir. And I'm not saying he and Geno are the same guy. But i will say this. You tell me what signs Jagr showed of being a sulky a-hole prior to the ship hitting the fan? Jagr as a young Penguin was usually among the first players on the ice and the last to leave. He loved the city, and was loved back.

And answer this - if he really was so concerned about being "the man," why then did he basically mail in his performances while he was in Washington? He was "the man" then, and did nothing before being shipped to New York. No, Jagr was an extremely selfish person, so far at the other spectrum from Malkin that they aren't even in the same area code as far as personality goes.

He became selfish, but he wasn't always. And even then I think there was something more at work. Jagr had a gambling habit, think he might have put himself in a bad situation with the wrong people. He really wigged out, I think it was as much to do with some off the ice problems as it was to do with his Penguin situation.

Again, there is absolutely no way any team will give up that much in a trade. None. We're talking about an era where if you want to have long-term success, you need to do it via the draft, because the salary cap prevents teams from attempting to "buy" championship teams every year by signing every big-name free agent they can. Look at how much heat Brian Burke is taking for trading his #1 pick to the Bruins for Phil Kessel, which is going to turn out to be either Taylor Hall or Tyler Seguin, depending on who the Oilers prefer. The Bruins' goalie Tuukka Rask was drafted by the Leafs, and was promptly traded to the Bruins for Andrew Raycroft. Oops! (Though admittedly that was their former GM who did that and not Burke.) Burke also gave up a #1 next year too in that Kessel deal. How in the world is a GM supposed to rebuild when he's giving away top-5 draft picks? I can't see any team giving up 4 players, 2 of them being top-line players, plus 2 #1 picks for anyone, even if it was Crosby or Ovechkin. It will not happen. The Pens will never get equal value in any trade for Malkin, plain and simple. Mario isn't stupid - while you may think he's looking for any signs of discontent with Malkin, he also knows the backlash he and Shero will get from the fans if he trades him, and especially if he trades him and gets nowhere near equal value for him. And evidently, you and the author of the story aren't alone, because I read on another board a rumor that the Pens may deal both Malkin and Gonchar to either LA or St. Louis.

There's another angle I hadn't even thought of before. If Gonchar leaves there goes Geno's mentor and friend. Granted he's further along in his career now and doesn't need a baby sitter, but still losing his fellow country man ( if it happens as many speculate it will) could end up eroding Geno's feeling of safe harbor in Pittsburgh.

There's a better chance of me suiting up and playing for the Pens next season than that ever happening.

Yeah right. :chuckle:

Still think this is nothing more than panic because the Pens lost, because apparently they have become the Steelers and have to win the Stanley Cup every year for the fans to be satisfied.

No it's just speculation, that's all. As a sports fan it's something we sometimes do. What's wrong with exercising our inner G.M. every now and again? :noidea:

And last thing as far as Jagr goes. I didn't appreciate his antics at the end of his stint in Pittsburgh. But his play was so great for so long with our team that I just learned to quickly sweep it under the rug. He truly was a special player, even that last year when he was with the Rangers and he played against us in the playoffs i couldn't help but marvel at his talent. Not that I minded a little the Pens kicking his Rangers ass. But the point is Jaromir was too special of a player and never really that bad of a person that i could truly dislike him.

Shea
05-17-2010, 10:44 PM
Ugh.

Why mess with what you might get when you already got it?

HometownGal
05-18-2010, 06:07 AM
Yeah, I did boo Jagr. Why? Because he deserved it. There was no reason at all for him to say he was "dying alive" when for 3 and a half seasons, he was THE man on the Pens between Mario's first retirement and his comeback. He had his chance to lead the team to a Cup and he couldn't get it done. So you're telling me that for a year and a half, he was so unhappy because Mario was back and getting all of the press, that he forced a trade? No freaking way, and the real reason why he was upset was because he knew the Pens wouldn't be able to pay him what he felt he was worth. And answer this - if he really was so concerned about being "the man," why then did he basically mail in his performances while he was in Washington? He was "the man" then, and did nothing before being shipped to New York. No, Jagr was an extremely selfish person, so far at the other spectrum from Malkin that they aren't even in the same area code as far as personality goes.



:applaudit::thumbsup::applaudit:

I take pride in booing that jackass every chance I get for exactly the reasons you stated above. You, me and about 10,000 other Pens fans every time his fat whiny ass came back to play at Mellon Arena whether with the Caps or the Rags.

It used to gag me to look across the ice and see the "Ring of Honor" with Jagr and the "C" on his jersey. He never took on that role as a captain, imho - Ronnie Francis was more of a captain than Jagr could have ever hoped to be. The way I see it, that "C" on Jagr's jersey referred to another word that begins with a "C" which I would have to ban myself for if I posted it. :chuckle:

zulater
05-18-2010, 12:07 PM
:applaudit::thumbsup::applaudit:

I take pride in booing that jackass every chance I get for exactly the reasons you stated above. You, me and about 10,000 other Pens fans every time his fat whiny ass came back to play at Mellon Arena whether with the Caps or the Rags.

It used to gag me to look across the ice and see the "Ring of Honor" with Jagr and the "C" on his jersey. He never took on that role as a captain, imho - Ronnie Francis was more of a captain than Jagr could have ever hoped to be. The way I see it, that "C" on Jagr's jersey referred to another word that begins with a "C" which I would have to ban myself for if I posted it. :chuckle:

http://www.hockey-reference.com/players/j/jagrja01.html

oDX0pxdidB4

So because of a few bad months at the end of his Penguin career you're going to forget 11 mostly great seasons?

When Mario went down after Adam Graves tomahawked his hand in the 92 playoffs do you remember who stepped up? You think we get by the Rangers and go on to defend the Cup without Jagr?

http://video.aol.com/video-detail/1992-patrick-division-final-game-5-young-jagr-scored-2/4170026762


You pride yourself on booing someone who won 5 Art Ross trophy's as a Pen? We're not talking have a cup of coffee Hossa here.

I can understand some of the initial anger with Jagr. Similiar to Ben, Jagr had a lot of immaturity issues, he really was a jackass for the last part of the 2000-2001 season., may be even a little before it too. And I know he mailed it in with the Capitals for reasons I couldn't begin to imagine, nor could I care less about. ( if I were a Caps fan I would certainly hate Jagr) But damn what a joy to watch for most of those 11 years. He was simply mersmerizing with the puck. The way he could control the flow of a game, I'm not sure I've ever seen a winger come close to it the way he did. Well sorry but I can't poison those memories for his actions over a couple months. It just doesn't wipe out all those tremendous moments.

I really hope at some point you and other Penguins fans will find it in your heart to forgive one of the greatest players to ever don a Penguins uniform. Not only do you owe it to Jaromir ( imo) for 11 mostly great seasons, but you also owe it to yourselves.

Sorry for the preachy rant, but I really think peo0ple need to give serious consideration to letting the Jagr hate go.

zulater
05-18-2010, 12:32 PM
Ugh.

Why mess with what you might get when you already got it?

I guess my question is are you going to be able to keep it over time? I know Geno's done nothing to indicate he'll ever rock the boat. And hopefully he wont? :noidea:

But are you going to tell me that when he goes back to his homeland he doesn't get a little envious of all the the audulation that Ovechkin gets? That maybe as in the case of many great players he has a big ego and thinks he deserves to be thought of in the same light as OV? And that somewhere in his mind it doesn't occur to him that as long as he operates in the same theatre as Sid Crosby he's never going to get that same respect?

In all honestly I think the potential is there for this to crash and burn in two or three years. And once a player makes it known that he wants out his market value is seriously diminished.

And again all I'm suggesting is that they think about it if the right deal can be made.

I doubt that Malkin will be dealt this offseason, and I'll actually be happy about that. But regardless, the hidden G.M inside me strongly suggests this might be the best time to check the market.

zulater
05-18-2010, 01:06 PM
I'll leave it at this. If Sid and Geno go on to win multiple Cups together no one will be happier than me.:tt02:

HometownGal
05-18-2010, 07:33 PM
[You pride yourself on booing someone who won 5 Art Ross trophy's as a Pen? We're not talking have a cup of coffee Hossa here.

YES I do and I wouldn't give a rat's ass if he won every trophy out there while he was with the Pens. He's a pompous whiny jackass, always has been, always will be. Sorry Zu, but neither you or anyone else will ever change my opinion of Jagr. There have been a couple of players since Jagr that I haven't been overly fond of for one reason or another, but I'm a fan of the team first and foremost and though, as I said, I couldn't stand him when he played here, I didn't boo him until he pulled that shit when he left. I never have booed a player while donning a Pens uni and I never will no matter how I feel about that player personally.

Imho - Jagr became the player he was because of Mario Lemieux and Ron Francis. Too bad he never came close to having their class both on and off the ice.

Sorry for the preachy rant, but I really think peo0ple need to give serious consideration to letting the Jagr hate go.

Sorry, no can do. That guy has the class of an asparagus tip (and the ass of a barn. :pig: :chuckle:).

zulater
05-18-2010, 08:34 PM
YES I do and I wouldn't give a rat's ass if he won every trophy out there while he was with the Pens. He's a pompous whiny jackass, always has been, always will be. Sorry Zu, but neither you or anyone else will ever change my opinion of Jagr. There have been a couple of players since Jagr that I haven't been overly fond of for one reason or another, but I'm a fan of the team first and foremost and though, as I said, I couldn't stand him when he played here, I didn't boo him until he pulled that shit when he left. I never have booed a player while donning a Pens uni and I never will no matter how I feel about that player personally.

Imho - Jagr became the player he was because of Mario Lemieux and Ron Francis. Too bad he never came close to having their class both on and off the ice.



Sorry, no can do. That guy has the class of an asparagus tip (and the ass of a barn. :pig: :chuckle:).

I loved Mario, Ronny Francis, Larry Murphy, and many others that played on those great Penguin teams. truthfully the only one I ever came close to disliking was Tommy Barrasso, who not only could be a pompous ass, but was vastly overrated imho. In fact I always thought EJ's switching back to Barrasso in the EC finals over Wreggett was ultimatley what cost us the Cup back in 95-96.

Oops sorry I got rambling, back to Jagr, as great as Ron Francis and Mario were they didn't make Jagr. Jagr is one of the greatest right wings to ever play the game period.

And outside of those last few months what exactly did Jagr do that so pissed you off? :noidea: Hell he chose his number in honor of the short lived and ill fated 68 Czech uprising against the Soviets. He did this ( chose the number) and publicly proclaimed it while the Czech Republic was still behind the Iron curtian. He listed his personal hero as Ronald Reagan for standing up to the Soviets. His work ethic was second to none for much of his time in Pittsburgh. He was first on the ice and last to leave. I think for the most part he was popular with his teammates.


As I alluded to before I think Jagr derailing with the Pens when he did was more to do with external forces at work than what was occuring on the ice or inside the lockeroom. In other words he succumbed to his gambling habit and because of it his debts became all consuming and he saw getting out of Pittsburgh and into a place where he would be awarded a new contract as his only saving grace. I certainly don't condone what he did then, but greater people than Jagr have temporarily succumbed to their addictions. And to me that's all it was ever about, and that's why I have no problem forgiving him.

Anyway I don't know how you could have followed the Penguins through that time and hated Jagr? And if you didn't hate him before his historonics started just prior to his departure I don't see why you can't find it wihin you to forgive him now?

steelpride12
05-18-2010, 09:52 PM
Of course none of us hated Jagr during his time in Pittsburgh, but when he left and started all the shit love can easily turn to hate and well deserved IMO.

"Captain Quitter" quit on the Pens so many times over the years...especially in tough situations where your captain is supposed to lead by example. He always put himself before the team...I remember watching a game where he was frustrated by not scoring and refused to go out on the powerplay late in a close game. He has always led the league in "important game sudden groin injuries". He wanted out of Pittsburgh and Mario's shadow, so he cried to Czech reporters that he was"Dying Alive" in Pittsburgh. And finally, he had the lack of class to badmouth Pittsburgh when he was given what he wanted and moved to another team.

Apparently he hasn't changed a bit as he's gotten older. This year he repeatedly refused to take part in shootouts, and he had a disagreement with Aaron Ward right before the deadline forcing the Rangers to move Ward even though they had some injuries on D at the time.

zulater
05-18-2010, 10:24 PM
Of course none of us hated Jagr during his time in Pittsburgh, but when he left and started all the shit love can easily turn to hate and well deserved IMO.

"Captain Quitter" quit on the Pens so many times over the years...especially in tough situations where your captain is supposed to lead by example. He always put himself before the team...I remember watching a game where he was frustrated by not scoring and refused to go out on the powerplay late in a close game. He has always led the league in "important game sudden groin injuries". He wanted out of Pittsburgh and Mario's shadow, so he cried to Czech reporters that he was"Dying Alive" in Pittsburgh. And finally, he had the lack of class to badmouth Pittsburgh when he was given what he wanted and moved to another team.

Apparently he hasn't changed a bit as he's gotten older. This year he repeatedly refused to take part in shootouts, and he had a disagreement with Aaron Ward right before the deadline forcing the Rangers to move Ward even though they had some injuries on D at the time.

It's like a marriage when it's over. You can allow yourself to be consumed by hate, forget all the good times and just dwell on the bad. But what good does that do you? Bitterness eats away away like a cancer and you end up forgetting the good moments and that to me is just sad..

Sure it ended ugly, sure Jarg could be a whiny ahole at times, but the good far outweighed the bad, and by far I mean by mountains.

Jagr was a great player, he provided many of the greatest goals I ever witnessed both in person and on teleivision. To allow myself to be consumed with the hate would have me taint and tarnish memories that are still special.

Jagr like many of us has had bad moments, but I remain convinced that he wasn't a bad man. I'm very glad he was a Penguin for the years that he was.

steelpride12
05-18-2010, 10:33 PM
It's like a marriage when it's over. You can allow yourself to be consumed by hate, forget all the good times and just dwell on the bad. But what good does that do you? Bitterness eats away away like a cancer and you end up forgetting the good moments and that to me is just sad..

Sure it ended ugly, sure Jarg could be a whiny ahole at times, but the good far outweighed the bad, and by far I mean by mountains.

Jagr was a great player, he provided many of the greatest goals I ever witnessed both in person and on teleivision. To allow myself to be consumed with the hate would have me taint and tarnish memories that are still special.

Jagr like many of us has had bad moments, but I remain convinced that he wasn't a bad man. I'm very glad he was a Penguin for the years that he was.

Bad moments? It just all goes to waste no matter what he did for the Pens on the ice when he says the thing's he did before and after he left the team. He made it seem as if it was all a mistake and that he wanted nothing to do with this team. When your a loyal fan that hit hard and will never be forgotten no matter what he did positive, it ended and will remain negative.

zulater
05-18-2010, 10:46 PM
Bad moments? It just all goes to waste no matter what he did for the Pens on the ice when he says the thing's he did before and after he left the team. He made it seem as if it was all a mistake and that he wanted nothing to do with this team. When your a loyal fan that hit hard and will never be forgotten no matter what he did positive, it ended and will remain negative.

Jagr never personally insulted me. If he said a few bad things about Pittsburgh so what? So have I. But it's still part of me. I also know that he's said that if the opportunity presented itslef he'd like to finish his career in Pittisburgh, that he'd play for Mario for the minimum salary. Do I beleive it? No. But i also don't beleive he hates Pittsburgh or it's citizens, and I think his memories of being a Penguin are mostly positive, as are mine of him.

steelpride12
05-18-2010, 11:08 PM
Jagr never personally insulted me. If he said a few bad things about Pittsburgh so what? So have I. But it's still part of me. I also know that he's said that if the opportunity presented itslef he'd like to finish his career in Pittisburgh, that he'd play for Mario for the minimum salary. Do I beleive it? No. But i also don't beleive he hates Pittsburgh or it's citizens, and I think his memories of being a Penguin are mostly positive, as are mine of him.

Well there you go. As you stated you can be fond of him and enjoy the moments he had here in Pittsburgh, but me and the others will continue our hatred duty against him. All's fair.

X-Terminator
05-18-2010, 11:20 PM
Jagr never personally insulted me. If he said a few bad things about Pittsburgh so what? So have I. But it's still part of me. I also know that he's said that if the opportunity presented itslef he'd like to finish his career in Pittisburgh, that he'd play for Mario for the minimum salary. Do I beleive it? No. But i also don't beleive he hates Pittsburgh or it's citizens, and I think his memories of being a Penguin are mostly positive, as are mine of him.

Well, that turned out to be BS considering he re-signed with his KHL team Avangard Omsk for 1 year and $7 million bucks. Jagr's love of money hasn't changed one bit. And even IF he did do what he said, there is no way in hell I could ever cheer for him. It would be like my feelings toward Matt Cooke, but for totally different reasons. Well, actually I'd cheer for Cooke long before I'd cheer for Jagr.

Sorry Zu, but my mind isn't going to be changed about Jagr, and neither will HTG's or steelpride12's. There are just too many hard feelings. I'll admit that yes, he is one of the greatest players ever to wear a Pens' uniform. He likely will have his number retired someday and raised right next to Mario's. But when that happens, I hope I'm not there to see it, and I hope he's prepared to hear plenty of boos that night.

Shea
05-18-2010, 11:21 PM
I like that this thread has takin off into a Jagr debate, because trading Geno is absolutely crazy.

Sometimes thread hijacks are a good thing.

zulater
05-19-2010, 12:01 AM
Well, that turned out to be BS considering he re-signed with his KHL team Avangard Omsk for 1 year and $7 million bucks. Jagr's love of money hasn't changed one bit.

I love money too, or what it can do for me.:chuckle:

And even IF he did do what he said, there is no way in hell I could ever cheer for him. It would be like my feelings toward Matt Cooke, but for totally different reasons. Well, actually I'd cheer for Cooke long before I'd cheer for Jagr.

What did Jagr kicks someone's cat and i wasn't told about it? Yeah "dying alive" was ridiculous, and he had some petulant moments. But geez- to hate someone who brought so much joy over what in my mind adds up to a bunch of silly nonsense. sorry but i just can't get into it. Hate is an emotion that I reserve for the likes of Ahmadinejad.


Sorry Zu, but my mind isn't going to be changed about Jagr, and neither will HTG's or steelpride12's.

That's fine, but i think you're only cheating yourself from some special memories.

There are just too many hard feelings. I'll admit that yes, he is one of the greatest players ever to wear a Pens' uniform. He likely will have his number retired someday and raised right next to Mario's. But when that happens, I hope I'm not there to see it, and I hope he's prepared to hear plenty of boos that night.

That would be a shame in my opinion and put Penguin fans in a bad light for the rest of the sports world. Ten mostly great years shouldn't be undone by one off the rocker season.

OneForTheToe
05-19-2010, 12:18 AM
NO

That is all

Indo
05-19-2010, 12:23 PM
I have to say that I'm with Zu on the Jagr issue.

I don't hate the guy. I am severely annoyed by him----or, what he became
Because, let's face it, he was one hell of an amazing player. Watch those vids that Zu posted and tell me you don't remember his magic on the ice.

As far as living in Mario's shadow:
I don't know Jagr, so I don't know how he was feeling at the time.
But, I do know that Jagr had a biography done in which he CLEARLY has nothing but GREAT things to say about Mario (the book was published in 1997---it's a good read, but I realize that Jagr's feelings for Mario may have changed since the book came out).
http://www.amazon.com/Jagr-Autobiography-Jaromir/dp/1895629861/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1274288636&sr=1-3

He came to the US when he was 17----amazingly the Czech Republic allowed this at the time...
He did not know a single person
He did not speak English
He did not have anywhere to live

Until Mario took him in to his own home
And helped to get him English teachers
And taught him about living in the US (something that Mario learned only a few years before that)
And helped him hone his hockey skills
and on and on and on...

"Captain Quitter" quit on the Pens so many times over the years...especially in tough situations where your captain is supposed to lead by example. He always put himself before the team...I remember watching a game where he was frustrated by not scoring and refused to go out on the powerplay late in a close game.
Maybe he refused to go out on the PP because he thought the team had a better chance of scoring with someone else, knowing that he was playing poorly that game? It's hard to second-guess someone's motivation (or lack of?) in any particular situation without knowing the whole story. I'm sure you have seen the video on youtube proclaiming that Troy is the biggest a-hole ever and shows him running into a punt receiver waving a "fair catch" sign. Is Troy truly an a-hole? The guy who posted the video thinks so. My point: sometimes we don't know the whole story, and that leads to misperceptions.

Gambling and gambling debts do strange things to a person.
I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt.

I don't like how things turned out, how he acted those last 2 years
but I do like what he did for this team before that.

zulater
05-19-2010, 08:50 PM
I like that this thread has takin off into a Jagr debate, because trading Geno is absolutely crazy.

Sometimes thread hijacks are a good thing.

Getting back on topic, here's someone who puts a few interesting possibilities together. :chuckle:

Evgeni Malkin is often an out-of-this-world talent who can play keepaway with the puck, but after the Pittsburgh Penguins' shocking ouster by the Montreal Canadiens, it is painfully obvious the Penguins have an overabundance of a good things at centre and a paucity of wingers.

Penguins GM Ray Shero loves his strength down the middle, with Sidney Crosby, Malkin and Jordan Staal the best one-two-three punch in the game, and he keeps saying that he doesn't want to mess with such a good thing, but why couldn't he move Malkin?

Crosby, even with his struggles against the Canadiens, is the best centre in the world. Staal, playing on one leg and willing himself back from surgery to repair a ripped tendon in his foot, was the most dangerous Penguins player in their final game against the Habs. He can easily be the No. 2 centre. He can get 60 points a year and shut down the other team's big guns.

Malkin, who has four years left on his contract, is hardly excess baggage, but if Shero were to pick up the phone and start canvassing his lodge-brothers he might get what he sorely needs -- two top-six forwards. If he could get two wingers who make about

$8 million total that would be less than Malkin's $8.7-million cap hit, and maybe a team would throw in a stocking stuffer, too.

A good draft pick or a top-nine, young-20s forward.

While the Edmonton Oilers had Gretzky and Messier in the glory days, they also had Jari Kurri and Glenn Anderson to give them support, then Esa Tikkanen came along.

The Penguins have nobody on the wing who really scares the opposition. Chris Kunitz, 31 this fall, is, at best, a No. 6 forward and he's been hurt a lot. Bill Guerin remains a strong leader with his on-ice smarts and nice hands but he's 40 in November and running out of gas. Pascal Dupuis, 31, is a third-liner masquerading as a top six guy. Alexei Ponikarovsky and Ruslan Fedotenko are unrestricted free-agent wingers and were healthy scratches in the playoffs.

Shero will be divesting himself of Ponikarovsky and Fedotenko this summer, and Guerin could retire, freeing up some other money. He can scour the free-agent list but its chock-a-block with goalies and not so many high-end forwards. Only Max Afinogenov, Alex Frolov, Lee Stempniak, and an older Paul Kariya at first blush, unless the Detroit Red Wings can't afford Todd Bertuzzi.

The Penguins have high-end prospect Eric Tangradi coming (they got him in the Ryan Whitney to Anaheim Ducks trade), and maybe they could offer a couple of good draft picks to, say, the Chicago Blackhawks for Kris Versteeg this summer because he looks like a salary-cap casualty, but there is a huge hole on the wing with proven NHLers. The Red Wings have Zetterberg and Datsyuk in the middle, but also have Johan Franzen and Valtteri Filppula and will be getting Jiri Hudler back from Russia next year. The Hawks have Jonathan Toews and Patrick Sharp in the middle, with an abundance of wingers. The San Jose Sharks have Little Joe Pavelski and Jumbo Joe Thornton at centre with Dany Heatley, Patrick Marleau, Devin Setoguchi and Ryane Clowe on the wing. The Penguins?

Which brings us to which team should be investigating Malkin. I say the Oilers should make a few calls. They've got Ales Hemsky and Dustin Penner, who take up a $8.325-million cap hit this upcoming season and the year after. They could give them Andrew Cogliano as well. OK, none of those players is as good as Malkin, 23, who has 381 points in 309 NHL games. I know that. But Hemsky, 26, and Penner, 27, are in the prime of their careers, and are certainly top-six forwards. And the Penguins need top-flight wingers, in the worst way.

I'm likely dreaming, but there is no sense having the deepest centre rotation in hockey -- Crosby, Malkin and Staal -- if you have no

Copyright (c) The Edmonton Journal


Read more: http://www.edmontonjournal.com/sports/Time%20Pens%20move%20Malkin/3034297/story.html#ixzz0oQkfrjyi

X-Terminator
05-19-2010, 09:17 PM
Edmonton? LOL! Maybe they should worry about trying to actually attract and keep high-end players, cause nobody wants to play there.

If Ray Shero were to make that kind of deal - Malkin for Penner, Hemsky (AKA "Injury") and Cogliano, he should be fired on the spot. Absolutely AWFUL deal.

And just to point out how dumb this reporter is, Patrick Marleau is a converted center playing wing (gee, just what I suggested the Pens will do with Staal), Zetterberg is a LW and Filppula is a center actually playing center.

Not exactly a good source there, Zu, but it ain't your fault!

X-Terminator
05-21-2010, 01:35 PM
http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/sports/penguins/s_682279.html?source=rss&feed=8

Penguins not interested in trading Malkin

Evgeni Malkin will play for the Penguins next season.

Two sources told the Tribune-Review that Malkin, the Penguins' No. 2 center and co-highest paid player, will not be traded during the offseason.

The topic of trading Malkin has become a hot-button issue on the local talk-show circuit in the days after the Penguins were eliminated from the Stanley Cup playoffs in the second round by the Montreal Canadiens.

Malkin and top center Sidney Crosby combined to score two goals in that series. Each player will count $8.7 million against the NHL's salary cap next season, and the Penguins are committed to $21.4 million among Crosby, Malkin and No. 3 center Jordan Staal for the next three seasons.

No other team has that much cap-space tied into three centers, but Penguins management believes this blueprint is the franchise's best bet to win the Stanley Cup in the first season at Consol Energy Center.

Malkin and Crosby finished 1-2 in playoff scoring during the Penguins' 2009 run to the Stanley Cup.

There has been debate among fans - though not internally within the Penguins - that moving one of the so-called "Big Three" centers could help address franchise needs for a scoring-line wing and high-end prospects.

The Penguins have entered the last two seasons within about $1 million of the cap, and ownership has signed off on again spending to the upper limit next season. The crop of NHL players expected to test free agency is considered strong at defense and weak at wing.

Malkin, 23, produced career lows in goals (28), points (77) and games (67) during the regular season. The previous year he paced the NHL with 113 points and won the Conn Smythe Trophy as playoff MVP for the Stanley Cup champion Penguins.

He has served as an alternate captain the last two seasons and will enter the second season of a five-year extension. He was the second overall pick in the 2004 entry draft. The Penguins selected Crosby at first overall in 2005 and Staal at second overall in 2006.

Crosby, 22, is a finalist for the Hart Trophy (MVP) and Ted Lindsay Award (best player) after finishing the regular season tied for the NHL lead with 51 goals. Staal, 21, is a first-time finalist for the Selke Trophy (best defensive forward).

/THREAD.

steelpride12
05-21-2010, 03:24 PM
Please close this thread.

zulater
05-21-2010, 06:55 PM
Please close this thread.

A thread lives or dies on it's own accord. If you don't like the topic you can always scroll on by.

The Pens are saying they're not interested in trading Geno, that's fine. I wouldn't expect them to say any different even if they were putting out feelers or making it known that they're willing to listen to 'reasonable' offers, and by 'reasonable' I mean blow my doors off to make me notice type offers. As I said before, they're in a position of strength as opposed to desperation. So publicly they're taking the right stance. But I remain convinced that they're not closing the doors on a deal if the right one were to present itself.

So chances are this thread will fade away for awhile. And I'm ok with that. As I've stated numerous times my feeling have nothing to do with the Pens playoff disposition, or Geno's somewhat subpar season ( for him). It wasn't made in a reactionary manner, in fact I would say I'm one of the few who've completly divorced themselves from emotion on the subject matter.

But be it one year, two years or maybe even as many as three seasons from now it's going to happen. Geno eventually is going to want to be the BMOC somewhere. That's just the way the male ego works, particuarly with the most gifted of us. And when that day occurs I hope the Pens wont be forced into a firesale. And I further hope that all those of you that proclaim your undying love for Geno now don't turn on him like you did Jagr if Geno goes a little sideways on the way out the door. .

I know I wont.

:coffee: .

steelpride12
05-21-2010, 10:21 PM
A thread lives or dies on it's own accord. If you don't like the topic you can always scroll on by.

The Pens are saying they're not interested in trading Geno, that's fine. I wouldn't expect them to say any different even if they were putting out feelers or making it known that they're willing to listen to 'reasonable' offers, and by 'reasonable' I mean blow my doors off to make me notice type offers. As I said before, they're in a position of strength as opposed to desperation. So publicly they're taking the right stance. But I remain convinced that they're not closing the doors on a deal if the right one were to present itself.

So chances are this thread will fade away for awhile. And I'm ok with that. As I've stated numerous times my feeling have nothing to do with the Pens playoff disposition, or Geno's somewhat subpar season ( for him). It wasn't made in a reactionary manner, in fact I would say I'm one of the few who've completly divorced themselves from emotion on the subject matter.

But be it one year, two years or maybe even as many as three seasons from now it's going to happen. Geno eventually is going to want to be the BMOC somewhere. That's just the way the male ego works, particuarly with the most gifted of us. And when that day occurs I hope the Pens wont be forced into a firesale. And I further hope that all those of you that proclaim your undying love for Geno now don't turn on him like you did Jagr if Geno goes a little sideways on the way out the door. .

I know I wont.

:coffee: .

Why jump on my back? I said that because as you stated this thread will now fade. It all comes down to your own personal opinion's and mine. I don't think he will and you do great we agreed on something and made a settlement.

SteelCityMan786
05-21-2010, 10:54 PM
http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/sports/penguins/s_682279.html?source=rss&feed=8



/THREAD.

I second that. I knew Shero wouldn't pull a move like this. Especially if it meant jeopardizing the state of the franchise.

Shea
05-21-2010, 11:10 PM
A thread lives or dies on it's own accord. If you don't like the topic you can always scroll on by.

Start scrolling on by then guys and before you know it Zu will be the only one in here talking to nobody but himself.

That actually might be entertaining. :chuckle:

zulater
05-23-2010, 06:59 AM
Start scrolling on by then guys and before you know it Zu will be the only one in here talking to nobody but himself.

That actually might be entertaining. :chuckle:

If something relevant to post comes along on the subject matter I'll post it, but otherwise just as on other threads I try to avoid redudancy, so I'll leave it be.

But it just so happens Ron Cook wrote a column that pretty much goes along with my thinking, so here it is.


Trading Evgeni Malkin is not such a ridiculous idea

Sunday, May 23, 2010
By Ron Cook, Pittsburgh Post-Gazette

It has been 11 days since the Montreal Canadiens turned out the lights on the Penguins' season in Game 7 of their Stanley Cup playoff series. Enough time has passed for the raw emotions to diminish, for clear, rational thinking to take over. There will be no knee-jerk reactions here this morning. Not one.

It wouldn't be absurd for the Penguins to trade Evgeni Malkin.

Now that I have your attention, let me clarify that point just a bit:

Penguins general manager Ray Shero would be crazy not to listen to and consider any and all trade inquiries for Malkin. I'm not talking about giving him away. That would be stupid. There must be equal return, of course.

No, the Penguins wouldn't get the best player in the deal. But they might be able to improve their team. Maybe by getting a star winger and a top-end prospect. Or a terrific defenseman and a top-end prospect or two. A scoring winger to play with Sidney Crosby and a shutdown defenseman are the team's two biggest needs.

You know the hard truth, right? Those needs are significant enough that Shero has to think beyond just maintaining the status quo and hoping that the Penguins' early flameout this spring was an aberration after the team won the Cup in 2009 and went to the Cup final in '08.

There's no way Malkin should be an untouchable, not in the salary-cap era when it's awfully difficult to pay two players -- Malkin and Crosby -- a combined $17.4 million a year. The only untouchable on the team should be the great Crosby, the best player in the world. He's not just the face of the Penguins. He's the face of the NHL. He should and will, it says here, spend his entire career in Pittsburgh.

That's another reason the Malkin trade talk is not sheer lunacy. Crosby always will be the dominant star here. No one can say for sure that Malkin will get chapped one day because of it. But no one can say he won't, either. If I'm guessing, I say chapped because he's so competitive with Crosby. That has to be one of the reasons coach Dan Bylsma -- and Michel Therrien before him -- hasn't split the two on the power play. Which one do you send out first without hurting the other's feelings? That also has to be why the coach is careful not to give one more minutes than the other. Superstars can be so sensitive, you know.

We've already seen how Malkin's many moods can have a negative impact on his game. If he's not scoring goals, he tends to get down on himself. It was so bad earlier this season that Bylsma noted publicly, "It's happened more than one occasion when Geno is disappointed how he's playing and frustrated. It certainly does affect his energy level and posture."

Malkin will turn 24 in July and still is an immature kid in some ways. But he has been around here long enough that he should have a better grip on those mood swings, for his sake and the team's.

That doesn't mean other NHL clubs wouldn't love to have Malkin. We've been so spoiled here. Every season since 1984, the Penguins have had at least one of the top two or three players in the world. Mario Lemieux. Jaromir Jagr. Crosby. Malkin. A lot of other hockey towns never have had a star and would do just about anything to get one.

The problem is that not every team can take on Malkin's salary -- $8.7 million a year through the 2013-14 season. That salary-cap business, remember? That would limit the potential trade partners for the Penguins.

But it only takes one other team to dance, right?

If Shero can't find the right fit -- which I'm guessing will be the case -- no problem. There are much worse things than having Malkin around for another season, especially with the excitement the Penguins will generate with their move into the beautiful new Consol Energy Center in the fall.

But if, on the odd chance, Shero can find a match?

It really wouldn't be absurd to do the deal.

Not crazy at all.
rcook@post-gazette.com. Ron Cook can be heard on the "Vinnie and Cook" show weekdays from 10 a.m. to 2 p.m. on 93.7 The Fan. More articles by this author


Read more: http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/10143/1060186-87.stm#ixzz0okkg9rh4

X-Terminator
05-23-2010, 08:26 AM
The problem is that not every team can take on Malkin's salary -- $8.7 million a year through the 2013-14 season. That salary-cap business, remember? That would limit the potential trade partners for the Penguins.

That should be the end right there, but of course it won't be. I've said it once, and I'll say it again - there is no team - NOT ONE - who will make a deal for Malkin right now without setting his team back 4 or 5 years. Period. They all know the price tag, and there is no way in hell they will give up 2 top-end players and 2 top-end prospects for him, not when drafting and developing your own players is so important with the salary cap in place. Why nobody who wants to ship him out of town considers this is beyond my comprehension. They will never, EVER, get equal value for Malkin in a trade, so why even give it a thought?