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View Full Version : Hines Ward or Steve Smith?


schlep3
05-23-2010, 05:50 PM
My friend and I debate this at least once a week. It isn't about the numbers, or who has more 50 yard catches. It's about pure ability.

Pros for each:

HINES: Hands, best blocking WR in the game, route running, possession receiver

SMITTY: Hands, speed, agility, route running, possession receiver


Really the only area that Smitty is better than Hines is at the "big play" ability, which is really speed + hands combined.

I view Hines as the better overall due to his blocking ability. It's fact that he is the best blocking receiver ever.


Thoughts?






And please, no dick riding.

(I am a Steelers fan, my friend is a Panthers fan. I say Hines, he says Smith.)

steelpride12
05-23-2010, 05:53 PM
I say Hines for one simple reason. He is clutch in key moments when you need a big play he always finds a way to get open and make a play.

Second he just fit's into the Steelers playbook better and is the best blocking WR in the game and something the run happy Steelers always need.

Psyychoward86
05-23-2010, 06:02 PM
Speed: Steve
Lateral quickness/acceleration: Steve
Jumpballs: Steve
Adjusting to bad throws: Steve
Big play ability: Steve
Balance/ability to stay inbounds: Steve
Athleticism: Steve
Versatility: Steve
Success while surrounding cast is failing: Steve
Seperation: Steve
Hands: Hines
Route running: Hines
Blocking: Hines
Leadership: Hines
Better Smile: Hines :wink:
Less fumble prone: Hines
Toughness: Tie?
Fighting for the ball: Tie?
Less injury prone: Tie? (Although, Hines has been hampered the last 3 years)


Steve is much more dangerous with the ball in his hands. Much, much more. I think they're both better fits on their current teams though...

Psyychoward86
05-23-2010, 06:04 PM
I say Hines for one simple reason. He is clutch in key moments when you need a big play he always finds a way to get open and make a play.

Second he just fit's into the Steelers playbook better and is the best blocking WR in the game and something the run happy Steelers always need.

I think we're getting carried away with this whole "clutch" thing on this board. It seems like every good player on this team is being considered clutch by someone.

Another thing to consider is that Steve plays phenomenally with great regularity even when his team is sucking.

schlep3
05-23-2010, 06:09 PM
Smitty is actually more fumble prone. He has more than double career fumbles.

Chidi29
05-23-2010, 06:13 PM
Smith. Much faster and is just as tough/scrappy as Ward is. Plus, as said, Smith has rarely had any other receiveing threat around him.

schlep3
05-23-2010, 06:14 PM
Smith. Much faster and is just as tough/scrappy as Ward is. Plus, as said, Smith has rarely had any other receiveing threat around him.

Faster does not = better.

Psyychoward86
05-23-2010, 06:19 PM
Faster does not = better.

lol of course, because speed is the only thing Steve Smith has on Ward :rolleyes:

schlep3
05-23-2010, 06:27 PM
lol of course, because speed is the only thing Steve Smith has on Ward :rolleyes:

Pretty much, yeah.

WARD:
Hands
Route running
Blocking
Consistent
Etc..

Smith:
Speed
Big play

solardave
05-23-2010, 06:41 PM
Smith. Much faster and is just as tough/scrappy as Ward is. Plus, as said, Smith has rarely had any other receiveing threat around him.

He can't block like Hines. You can't convince me of that. Compare them by matching their ages. Hines is going into his 13th season. 3 years ahead of Smith. I think Steve Smith is great, I'd have loved him in black and gold BUT and this is a BIG BUT, I'll still take Hines.

Steelers>NFL
05-23-2010, 06:45 PM
One thing Smith is better than Hines,
punching teammates in the face...
Where Hines is all words.

Psyychoward86
05-23-2010, 07:06 PM
blocking is near the bottom of the list in importance for a WR. Any team would take a top tier WR who can catch the ball and make something out of it rather than a top tier WR who blocks like there's no tomorrow

43Hitman
05-23-2010, 07:39 PM
If they both hit the free agent market at the same time, who would get picked up quicker? Ward or Smith? I'm saying Ward gets nabbed first for his all around ability and leadership qualities, but I think Smith is the better WR. He is a complete maniac when he gets the ball in his hands.

pete74
05-23-2010, 07:46 PM
which steve smith are we talking about? either case i would take hines. he is tough and plays thry injury plus he is the best blocking wr and plays his best when the game is on the line

Chidi29
05-23-2010, 10:32 PM
He can't block like Hines. You can't convince me of that. Compare them by matching their ages. Hines is going into his 13th season. 3 years ahead of Smith. I think Steve Smith is great, I'd have loved him in black and gold BUT and this is a BIG BUT, I'll still take Hines.

Never said he could block like Ward. He can't. However, Smith has been on run heavy teams the past couple of seasons so his blocking probably isn't that bad even at his size (Haven't really watched it so I can't say).

What I can say is that they have a lot of similar traits. But Smith is a whole lot faster and has been regarded as a top 5 WR at certain points in his career. Ward never has, at least as far as I can remember.

Don't get me wrong, love Hines. But not going to be a homer and pretend like I can't pick against the guy.

tube517
05-23-2010, 11:37 PM
Smith = better WR

Hines = Better Football player

devilsdancefloor
05-24-2010, 12:15 AM
Speed: Steve
Lateral quickness/acceleration: Steve
Jumpballs: Steve
Adjusting to bad throws: Steve
Big play ability: Steve
Balance/ability to stay inbounds: Steve
Athleticism: Steve
Versatility: Steve
Success while surrounding cast is failing: Steve
Seperation: Steve
Hands: Hines
Route running: Hines
Blocking: Hines
Leadership: Hines
Better Smile: Hines :wink:
Less fumble prone: Hines
Toughness: Tie?
Fighting for the ball: Tie?
Less injury prone: Tie? (Although, Hines has been hampered the last 3 years)


Steve is much more dangerous with the ball in his hands. Much, much more. I think they're both better fits on their current teams though...

But hines is more dangerous with one shoe on!:wink02:

Mr. Goosemahn
05-24-2010, 02:59 AM
Each receiver fits their team well. Hines has been great for us because he was great at blocking for our run-first offense some years ago.

But as of right now, Smith > Ward. Don't get me wrong, I love Ward, and am extremely happy we have him, but Smith is much more dangerous. He's just as tough as Ward, and he plays like a much bigger receiver. He's a much better deep threat, and he's got great hands, just like Ward.

Ward is better in the intangibles (clutch, leader, good person, etc.), but Smith beats him in every physical aspect of the game, sans blocking. Smith is a very dangerous player. And I think people are exaggerating his fumbling problem. He's only got 8 fumbles in his entire career, and only 2 of those were lost fumbles.

Again, each receiver fits their team well and it's not as if you can only succeed with one, but without being a homer, Smith is better. As tube517 said, Ward is the better football player, while Smith is the better receiver.

Galax Steeler
05-24-2010, 04:23 AM
All I am going to say is Ward.

HometownGal
05-24-2010, 07:53 AM
Pretty much, yeah.

WARD:
Hands
Route running
Blocking
Consistent
Etc..

Smith:
Speed
Big play

These are exactly my thoughts. ^^

BigBen'sSwagger
05-24-2010, 09:45 AM
Whoever says Smith is greater when others around him suck; either have short term memory or have not been Steeler fans long. Remember way way back when Kordel was QB he was over and under throwing everyone, but Hines still managed to get the clutch catches. It is what propelled him into the limelight.

Also versatility HInes was once a QB don't know if Smith can even throw the ball...not saying he can't but I don't watch the team and don't know if he can.

Call me Homer but I'll still take Hines over any other receiver in the NFL!!!

Go PsycoWard!!!

XxKnightxX
05-24-2010, 10:06 AM
I think its a tie, since both Players benefit from their respective systems. Panthers a run Heavy team and a quick and stubborn receiver is a great fit. Steelers currently a more 'balanced' team , fits ward because they dont ask him to strech the field, but to find space and room in order to move the chains. I tell you what though, I think if Steve Smith were in our system or maybe in the Saints system he would be an absolute monster. But thats not the case.

I think the OTHER Steve Smith, from the giants, has more clutchness. Guy had a hell of a load of 3rd down conversion catches. People forget he helped moving the chains twice on that super bowl 42 drive.

wootawnee
05-24-2010, 11:52 AM
THis thread is a Joke.......

Hines Ward is a Geat guy and A future Hall of Famer..............

Steve Smith is a me guy and a bad role model for kids.........Imagine if all our kids turned out like him.........A bunch of ME ME ME ME ME ME's.........What a bum that dude is........

Hines's Heart out weighs Steve's whole body.............

Remove this thread and quit disrespecting a man that could have played on any team in the history of the game..........

ps.......(The old teams would have beat the shit out of steve smith and threw him in an alley.......WHo needs that stuff.)

AllD
05-24-2010, 03:24 PM
Ward = Super Bowl MVP
Ward = Team career receiving leader
Ward = Has NFL rule named after his style of play

Smith = Excellent receiver on a bad team. Caught a lot of balls and runs fast, but no other distinction.

BlastFurnace
05-24-2010, 03:44 PM
There is not a single WR in the past decade I would have traded Hines for. IMO, he's was the most complete WR in the past 10 years.

I also believe that he is the best Steelers WR in the team's history.

RoethlisBURGHer
05-24-2010, 04:04 PM
They are different types of receivers.

Steve Smith is a big play guy, Hines Ward is not.

xXTheSteelKingsXx
05-24-2010, 04:09 PM
THis thread is a Joke.......

Hines Ward is a Geat guy and A future Hall of Famer..............

Steve Smith is a me guy and a bad role model for kids.........Imagine if all our kids turned out like him.........A bunch of ME ME ME ME ME ME's.........What a bum that dude is........

Hines's Heart out weighs Steve's whole body.............

Remove this thread and quit disrespecting a man that could have played on any team in the history of the game..........

ps.......(The old teams would have beat the shit out of steve smith and threw him in an alley.......WHo needs that stuff.)

I guess you forget about the training camp hold-out Hines staged back in 2005. Yup no "ME ME ME" in Ward's past.

BlastFurnace
05-24-2010, 04:57 PM
I guess you forget about the training camp hold-out Hines staged back in 2005. Yup no "ME ME ME" in Ward's past.

The players didn't have a problem with it because Hines was still under his 4 year / $10 Million dollar deal that he signed. He deserved more money and, unfortunately in the NFL, sometimes you have to take a stand on something. Even Cowher went to bat for Hines over this issue. He was being grossly underpaid and he...and the Steelers knew it.

It's not like he was doing what Andre Johnson is doing right now.

Chidi29
05-24-2010, 05:03 PM
The players didn't have a problem with it because Hines was still under his 4 year / $10 Million dollar deal that he signed. He deserved more money and, unfortunately in the NFL, sometimes you have to take a stand on something. Even Cowher went to bat for Hines over this issue. He was being grossly underpaid and he...and the Steelers knew it.

It's not like he was doing what Andre Johnson is doing right now.

What is Johnson doing right now?

Besides reporting to OTAs after only missing a few practices and not missing any training camp.

BlastFurnace
05-24-2010, 05:38 PM
What is Johnson doing right now?

Besides reporting to OTAs after only missing a few practices and not missing any training camp.

OK. Poor choice of words.

He's at OTA's, but he initially didn't go because he is not happy with the contract he signed that has 5 years left on it because he feels that he has outperformed the contract.

wootawnee
05-24-2010, 05:46 PM
I guess you forget about the training camp hold-out Hines staged back in 2005. Yup no "ME ME ME" in Ward's past.

Im talkin about day in and day out on the field......Smith has a fit if he dont get the ball......Classless guy.........

Everybody gotta stick up for what they are worth........

Chidi29
05-24-2010, 05:49 PM
OK. Poor choice of words.

He's at OTA's, but he initially didn't go because he is not happy with the contract he signed that has 5 years left on it because he feels that he has outperformed the contract.

Isn't that what Ward did? Felt like he outperformed the contract and wanted a raise?

What Ward did was actually worse. Johnson missed voluntary OTAs. Ward missed mandatory camp. Anyone else does that and they would have been killed for it.

BlastFurnace
05-24-2010, 05:54 PM
Isn't that what Ward did? Felt like he outperformed the contract and wanted a raise?

What Ward did was actually worse. Johnson missed voluntary OTAs. Ward missed mandatory camp. Anyone else does that and they would have been killed for it.

No, it's not worse. Ward was being paid peanuts compared to Johnson. If Cowher agreed with him, I think that adds merit to it.

Chidi29
05-24-2010, 05:59 PM
No, it's not worse. Ward was being paid peanuts compared to Johnson. If Cowher agreed with him, I think that adds merit to it.

It shouldn't matter about how much money you're making. It should be about principle. Johnson signed a contract just like what Ward did. Both of them should committ to it and shouldn't miss any time.

I don't agree with what Johnson did. But if I'd rather have a guy miss a couple, much less meaningful OTAs compared to actual camp, I'll take it in a heartbeat.

Psyychoward86
05-24-2010, 06:05 PM
Whoever says Smith is greater when others around him suck; either have short term memory or have not been Steeler fans long. Remember way way back when Kordel was QB he was over and under throwing everyone, but Hines still managed to get the clutch catches. It is what propelled him into the limelight.



Lol , because teams werent worried about The Bus or anything :rolleyes:



i think a lot of people have a tendency to label "big play receivers" as one-trick ponies. Not true. Steve Smith can play ANYWHERE. Golden Tate is going to be a lot like him once he grows up in a few years.

BlastFurnace
05-24-2010, 06:21 PM
It shouldn't matter about how much money you're making. It should be about principle. Johnson signed a contract just like what Ward did. Both of them should committ to it and shouldn't miss any time.

I don't agree with what Johnson did. But if I'd rather have a guy miss a couple, much less meaningful OTAs compared to actual camp, I'll take it in a heartbeat.

In a perfect world, I would agree with you, but the NFL owners don't follow that principle either. The Steelers released Gildon and Porter with money left on the contract. I don't blame the player for trying to get what they can get when they are healthy....because we know the owners won't pay them squat if they get hurt.

Chidi29
05-24-2010, 06:22 PM
In a perfect world, I would agree with you. The NFL owners don't follow that principle either. The Steelers released Gildon and Porter with money left on the contract. I don't blame the player for trying to get what they can get when they are healthy....because we know the owners won't pay them squat if they get hurt.

Then why can't Johnson?

To me, either everything is ok or nothing is ok. Can't have your cake and eat it too.

Psyychoward86
05-24-2010, 06:59 PM
Im talkin about day in and day out on the field......Smith has a fit if he dont get the ball......Classless guy.........



Um, when did that happen?


Btw guys, he's a hothead in a good way (other than punching Ken Lucas in the face)

xXTheSteelKingsXx
05-24-2010, 07:18 PM
Im talkin about day in and day out on the field......Smith has a fit if he dont get the ball......Classless guy.........

Everybody gotta stick up for what they are worth........

Now your bringing character into an arguement about skills. If you want to base success on the field off character maybe you should change your list of top quarterbacks in the Gamer Forum. Ben wouldn't even be in the top ten.

I love Hines Ward but from a production standpoint I can't say he his far away better than Smith. Ward has three years on Smith so if you drop his last three seasons Ward has 628 catches, 8,005 rec. yards and 58 TDs. Smith so far has 574 catches, 8,330 rec. yards and 50 TDs (He also had a broken leg in 2004 and missed the entire season). Granted Ward has two Super Bowl rings but I don't think that is really applicable in this arguement because it should be used as a measuring stick of team success.

Psyychoward86
05-24-2010, 07:28 PM
And you guys are getting way carried away with your homerism.

If you think Hines Ward is a lock for the Hall of Fame, you are kidding yourself. If better receivers like Cris Carter cant get in, what makes you think Hines Ward can?

fansince'76
05-24-2010, 08:05 PM
If you think Hines Ward is a lock for the Hall of Fame, you are kidding yourself. If better receivers like Cris Carter cant get in, what makes you think Hines Ward can?

Two reasons:

http://katespot.com/archives/steelers-superbowl-xl-ring.jpg

and

http://i.ytimg.com/vi/8P7YY4rJ5VM/0.jpg




I don't think Hines is a lock for the HoF at this point either, but if he adds one more of these to his collection before he retires, he will be. Championships matter in HoF balloting, probably more than they should.

Psyychoward86
05-24-2010, 09:49 PM
Two reasons:

http://katespot.com/archives/steelers-superbowl-xl-ring.jpg

and

http://i.ytimg.com/vi/8P7YY4rJ5VM/0.jpg




I don't think Hines is a lock for the HoF at this point either, but if he adds one more of these to his collection before he retires, he will be. Championships matter in HoF balloting, probably more than they should.

too bad not everyone agrees with you, ugh

Mr. Goosemahn
05-24-2010, 09:53 PM
My friend and I debate this at least once a week. It isn't about the numbers, or who has more 50 yard catches. It's about pure ability.

Steve Smith. Easily. And I'm a Steelers fan. Basically, the only thing that Ward is better than Smith at is blocking, which is probably one of the least important skills for a wide receiver when compared to route running, catching, leaping ability, and getting separation. And since it's just about pure ability, we can toss out no-character-concerns for this debate, which Ward wins too.

Pros for each:

HINES: Hands, best blocking WR in the game, route running, possession receiver.

SMITTY: Hands, speed, agility, route running, possession receiver (??) Smith is much, much more than a possession receiver. He can be a great deep threat too, and can make plays all over the field. Also add superb jumping ability, and being a much better overall athlete.

Really the only area that Smitty is better than Hines is at the "big play" ability, which is really speed + hands combined.+jumping+breaking tackles+field vision+other things

I view Hines as the better overall due to his blocking ability. It's fact that he is the best blocking receiver ever.

Thoughts?


As I mentioned before, both guys fit their teams well, but if I had the chance to get either of them based on pure ability, I'd get Smith without thinking it twice. I'd much rather prefer a big-play WR than a WR who can block well. You can get a tight end to do that, or sign a WR who does that well, like Arnaz Battle.

Smith is arguably a top 5 receiver in the league, while Ward struggles to make a top 15 list.

Andre Johnson, Larry Fitzgerald, Randy Moss, Reggie Wayne, Brandon Marshall, Vincent Jackson, DeSean Jackson, Steve Smith, Calvin Johnson, Roddy White, Sidney Rice, Anquan Boldin, Chad OchoCinco, and a couple others will usually be listed before Ward is, because Ward's not an elite receiver. He's a much better football player than a receiver, he does his job really well, is very tough, and a relentless blocker. He doesn't complain, listens to coaches, and simply gets the job done.

But again, blocking isn't close to being the most important attribute for a receiver. Having a great wide receiver who's also an excellent blocker is a plus, but the truth is that most teams (us included) won't get rid of a receiver due to lack of blocking skills. I'd prefer an elite, athletic receiver who can't block to a tough possession receiver who can block really well. And the truth is that most of the elite WR's are average blockers, sometimes even good ones.

People overrate the blocking skill for a WR. They're the least important blockers on a team. O-line, FB, TE, and WR is the order, IMO.

So, as a Steelers fan, without homerism, Smith is the better player based on pure ability.

SteelerFanInATL
05-26-2010, 11:31 AM
They are both both good and excel at what they do in their systems. If your looking at it from a Steeler perspective, I would say Hines because of the blocking. Given the oppertunity Smith might be able to do the same thing but his size could be a factor. Just my $.02

AllD
05-26-2010, 12:13 PM
Maybe on paper Smith might look better, but there is no "Steve Smith Rule" in the NFL, nor has he ever been a Super Bowl MVP. You all can take your stats and fantasy football and shove them because it is all about the Lombardys.

Granted, Smith might be a better fit as a Steeler compared to Ward fitting in at Carolina, but that falls into the speculation and bean counters mentioned above.

Prok
05-26-2010, 12:24 PM
I'd take Smith too. He gives you more big play capability and more reliable hands IMO. I could care less how great a WR blocks.

Hines has GREAT work ethic and gets as much out of his talents as possible though.

I'd prefer the guy who can stretch the field and put more fear in defenses.

Psyychoward86
05-26-2010, 06:02 PM
I actually think Steve is just as good in the slot as Ward is, except he adds a lot more spice with his insane YAC ability

wootawnee
05-26-2010, 11:51 PM
Now your bringing character into an arguement about skills. If you want to base success on the field off character maybe you should change your list of top quarterbacks in the Gamer Forum. Ben wouldn't even be in the top ten.

I love Hines Ward but from a production standpoint I can't say he his far away better than Smith. Ward has three years on Smith so if you drop his last three seasons Ward has 628 catches, 8,005 rec. yards and 58 TDs. Smith so far has 574 catches, 8,330 rec. yards and 50 TDs (He also had a broken leg in 2004 and missed the entire season). Granted Ward has two Super Bowl rings but I don't think that is really applicable in this arguement because it should be used as a measuring stick of team success.

Why, cause ne got it on in a stall........You think Mick Jagger ever did that?.....How bout Elvis?.........He aint married......

wootawnee
05-26-2010, 11:57 PM
As I mentioned before, both guys fit their teams well, but if I had the chance to get either of them based on pure ability, I'd get Smith without thinking it twice. I'd much rather prefer a big-play WR than a WR who can block well. You can get a tight end to do that, or sign a WR who does that well, like Arnaz Battle.

Smith is arguably a top 5 receiver in the league, while Ward struggles to make a top 15 list.

Andre Johnson, Larry Fitzgerald, Randy Moss, Reggie Wayne, Brandon Marshall, Vincent Jackson, DeSean Jackson, Steve Smith, Calvin Johnson, Roddy White, Sidney Rice, Anquan Boldin, Chad OchoCinco, and a couple others will usually be listed before Ward is, because Ward's not an elite receiver. He's a much better football player than a receiver, he does his job really well, is very tough, and a relentless blocker. He doesn't complain, listens to coaches, and simply gets the job done.

But again, blocking isn't close to being the most important attribute for a receiver. Having a great wide receiver who's also an excellent blocker is a plus, but the truth is that most teams (us included) won't get rid of a receiver due to lack of blocking skills. I'd prefer an elite, athletic receiver who can't block to a tough possession receiver who can block really well. And the truth is that most of the elite WR's are average blockers, sometimes even good ones.

People overrate the blocking skill for a WR. They're the least important blockers on a team. O-line, FB, TE, and WR is the order, IMO.

So, as a Steelers fan, without homerism, Smith is the better player based on pure ability.

But Hines cried for Jerome.........Hines is a champion.......He teaches teamates, he is a role model in the locker room......Hines is way better for a team than a bunch of stats or T.O. type talent without what Hines is ......Bank it........We did...