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Vincent
05-24-2010, 09:22 AM
http://www.papillonsartpalace.com/alex.htm
The 'Roots' of huckster Haley's Great Fraud

Jan. 18, 2002 / 5 Shevat, 5762
Stanley Crouch
http://www.NewsAndOpinion.com --

IN the early 1980s, when Alex Haley, the author of "Roots," was speaking at Lincoln Center, investigative reporter Philip Nobile asked him a straightforward question. Since he had paid Harold Courlander $650,000 in a plagiarism suit, why shouldn't Haley be considered a criminal instead of a hero?

Haley had no answer. Well, what would you expect from someone who had pulled off one of the biggest con jobs in U.S. literary history?

Yet the "Roots" hoax has sustained itself. Every PBS station in America refused to show the 1997 BBC documentary inspired by Nobile's reporting on the book. And tonight NBC will air a retrospective on the 25th anniversary of the popular TV miniseries.

There are a number of reasons the truth about "Roots" is still ignored. One is that black Americans, primarily because of the influence of Malcolm X and the Nation of Islam, became obsessed with being a "lost" people in America, people who had "no knowledge of self." Younger black people were told they were not Americans, but victims of Americanism. Their true identity, Malcolm X said, was African and Islamic. The truth had been hidden from them by the white man, who was the Devil.

Another reason the hoax has held is that Haley, riding on the success of "The Autobiography of Malcolm X," for which he got "as told to" credit, knew how to hustle. He had already been accused of plagiarizing an interview with Miles Davis for Playboy.

So he traveled the country for years promoting a forthcoming book on the Haley family history, which he had miraculously traced back to Africa. Black college students, swept up in the black power movement and romantic ideas about "the motherland," were thrilled at the idea that Haley had proved it was possible to hold up a lantern in the historical darkness and find one's way home.

But the most important reason for the durability of the hoax is white folks. Those at Doubleday who published "Roots" had a best seller and were not interested in people knowing it was phony baloney. David Wolper Productions created the most successful miniseries of its time and was not interested. Federal Judge Robert Ward, who presided over the plagiarism case, protected Haley's reputation.

Ward urged Courlander - the man whose novel "The African" Haley pillaged - to be quiet about his huge settlement. Ward thought that Haley had become too important to black people to be torn down in public. As I said once before in this column a few years ago, that was paternalism at its very worst: Treat them like children; they can't handle the truth.

Haley called Nobile in February 1979 at New York magazine when he was reporting on the federal case. Haley said he shouldn't report on the case because the Ku Klux Klan could use the outcome against his people.

On another occasion, I heard Haley protest on the radio that "they" were trying "to say that black people have no history." At another point, according to Nobile, "He compared the truth about him to those people who attacked Anne Frank and said that there was no Holocaust. He would resort to anything."

Since "Roots" has brought millions of black tourist dollars to Gambia, one Gambian said to me, "Yes, it is a lie but it is a good lie."

The book remains an opportunistic insult to black people, and no amount of excuses will change that harsh fact.


Stanley Crouch, BTW, is black.

revefsreleets
05-24-2010, 11:15 AM
This is actually germane as a lot of the current Mexican-American classes (publicly funded classes, mind you) are just thinly veiled guises barely hiding what they really are: Programmed victimology.

Dino 6 Rings
05-24-2010, 11:33 AM
White Devils! How dare you mention this during these trying times of Immigration Reform!!!

que the Sarcasm Smiley

SteelCityMom
05-24-2010, 02:26 PM
Wait...you really needed a written article to tell you that the Roots story is mostly fiction? I knew that when I was 8.

Of course the main characters are fictional. That doesn't in any way mean that some of the struggles of the characters are fictional though. Sure, one can find out their family history...but it'd be pretty odd is someone found out that kind of detailed history about their family (at least enough to put into a 8-10 hour miniseries).

So what if he embellished off of his family history and made money....isn't that the American dream? To make money?

revefsreleets
05-24-2010, 03:37 PM
Wait...you really needed a written article to tell you that the Roots story is mostly fiction? I knew that when I was 8.

Of course the main characters are fictional. That doesn't in any way mean that some of the struggles of the characters are fictional though. Sure, one can find out their family history...but it'd be pretty odd is someone found out that kind of detailed history about their family (at least enough to put into a 8-10 hour miniseries).

So what if he embellished off of his family history and made money....isn't that the American dream? To make money?

Errrr....he didn't "make it up". That would be fine. The issue is that he stole significant portions of "Roots" from Harold Courlander's "The African".

That's plagiarism.

Vincent
05-24-2010, 03:49 PM
Wait...you really needed a written article to tell you that the Roots story is mostly fiction? I knew that when I was 8.

Of course the main characters are fictional. That doesn't in any way mean that some of the struggles of the characters are fictional though. Sure, one can find out their family history...but it'd be pretty odd is someone found out that kind of detailed history about their family (at least enough to put into a 8-10 hour miniseries).

So what if he embellished off of his family history and made money....isn't that the American dream? To make money?

We swerved into this in another thread (http://forums.steelersfever.com/showpost.php?p=824318&postcount=88).

It was presented to us as non-fiction (truth) at the time. I remember it clearly as an adult as my Bride and I watched the whole series. Because it was presented as "the truth" it had a profound impact on a lot of folks and on the political landscape.

The author of the novel from which Haley plagiarized sued him. The sympathetic (to Haley) judge told Haley and his team to settle or he'd be forced to bring perjury charges. So they settled.

SteelCityMom
05-24-2010, 04:25 PM
Errrr....he didn't "make it up". That would be fine. The issue is that he stole significant portions of "Roots" from Harold Courlander's "The African".

That's plagiarism.

Ok, that's fine....and apparently he paid a monetary sum for his plagiarism. Still, the article posted leans towards the notion that events that were described in the book are completely fictional. I don't buy that. Fictional, plagiarized, whatever...a good bit of what is described in the book took place in one respect or another.

Again (plagiarized or not), anyone who believes that one person in the 60's-70's managed to track their entire families slave history from Africa and recount it in extensive detail is kidding themselves.

SteelCityMom
05-24-2010, 04:28 PM
We swerved into this in another thread (http://forums.steelersfever.com/showpost.php?p=824318&postcount=88).

It was presented to us as non-fiction (truth) at the time. I remember it clearly as an adult as my Bride and I watched the whole series. Because it was presented as "the truth" it had a profound impact on a lot of folks and on the political landscape.

The author of the novel from which Haley plagiarized sued him. The sympathetic (to Haley) judge told Haley and his team to settle or he'd be forced to bring perjury charges. So they settled.

I highly doubt the judge came up with the settlement idea. It's far more believable to think that Courlander's attorneys put the settlement offer on the table and the judge advised him to take it. Maybe I'm wrong, but as far as I know judges don't present settlement offers...lawyers do.

Vincent
05-24-2010, 05:50 PM
Again (plagiarized or not), anyone who believes that one person in the 60's-70's managed to track their entire families slave history from Africa and recount it in extensive detail is kidding themselves.

Or kidding us. At the time our society bought Haley's account lock stock and barrel. Haley was, apparently, quite a liar (http://hnn.us/articles/129.html). The story goes that the detail came from griots (http://www.americanthinker.com/2009/11/before_dreams_there_was_roots.html).

I highly doubt the judge came up with the settlement idea. It's far more believable to think that Courlander's attorneys put the settlement offer on the table and the judge advised him to take it. Maybe I'm wrong, but as far as I know judges don't present settlement offers...lawyers do.

The judge told (http://www.americanthinker.com/2009/11/before_dreams_there_was_roots.html) the Haley team to settle or "he would have to contemplate a perjury charge". So they settled.

BTW, our Mother traced our family back to the battle of Hastings. But we weren't fortunate enough to have had the advantage of a griot. :chuckle:

revefsreleets
05-24-2010, 07:13 PM
I don't even dispute that what was portrayed didn't happen...I'm sure it did, maybe even worse. That isn't the point.

The point is, this kind of regressive thinking fuels victimology. Not doing well right now? Well, for God's sake, don't blame yourself, look to the past! Blame rough treatment of your ancestors! Anything but working harder and smarter and moving on...can't do that (like every OTHER minority group in America past present and probably future).

There always seems to need to be a scapegoat...

MasterOfPuppets
05-25-2010, 01:45 AM
In discussions about race generated by endless attacks by extremists on the far left, greater truths about are history in relation to African Americans is coming forward. In this, one of the nations most influential black authors has again come to the forefront and we are reminded that much of what the left bases it's beliefs on are not only false... but out right lies. Alex Haley supposedly spent ten years researching his family geneology in the creation of the book Roots. In fact, almost everything in the book was plageurized from an earlier book called The African by author Harold Courlander. In court, Courlander proved without question that Haley not only stole the substance of the book, but actually copied entire passages from the African into Roots. Rather than risk a settlement against him, Haley settled with Courlander out of court for $650,000 dollars. Then, not long after the trial ended, Joseph Bruchac, an instructor of black literature at Skidmore College, came forward to swear in an affidavit that in 1970 or 1971 five or six years before the publication of Roots, he had discussed The African with Haley and had, in fact, given his "own personal copy of The African to Mr. Haley. Bear in mind that Haley denied reading the African or knowing it existed yet in the settlement he acknowledged and regretted that various materials and entire passages from the African were unintentionally included in Roots. The judge in a later interview about the case stated that Alex Haley had perpetrated a hoax upon the American people.

Furthermore, Haley claimed to have found his actual ancestor Kunta Kinte who was taken from the Gambia and sold into slavery in 1767 where he was given the name Toby. His master was a man named John Waller. Haley also claimed to have identified the slave ship Kunta Kinte came here on and was the father of Haley ancestor Kizzy. However, all of these facts are in dispute. The slave known as Kunta Kinte owned by John Waller was already in America as early as 1762 and died years before Kizzy was born. It is also believed that Kebba Kanji Fofana in the Gambia who related the story of Kunta Kinte to Haley had been coached by Haley to say Kunta Kinte had been taken and Haley himself gave Fofana the information rather than the reverse being true. Haleys work has been almost completely discredited and is not included in the Norton Anthology of African American Literature because of this. Henry Louis Gates Jr even stated the following in relation to this...

Quote
Most of us feel it's highly unlikely that Alex actually found the village whence his ancestors sprang. Roots is a work of the imagination rather than strict historical scholarship.
End Quote

Now why is this significant? With all the cries about revisionism and exclusion by whites in the telling of history relating to black Americans, most black Americans still take Roots as literal truth. Haley went on lecture tours and for years perpetuated what turns out to be a complete falsehood about his past.

In the telling of African American history, very little history is actually taught. Most black Americans do not know that 99.9% of their ancestors were captured and provided to white slave traders by black African slave kingdoms which had existed for thousands of years in Africa. They do not know that without this, the African slavr trade could not have taken place because two white slave traders died for every slavery they tried to take by force. They do not know that it was a freed black indenture named Anthony Johnson who in fact changed Virginia law by refusing to free one of five African indentures he imported from Africa making this man an indenture for life. Virginia laws were changed, it is believed, because Johnson argued that slavery for life was tradition in Africa and so the Virginia courts changed their laws allowing slavery and other states followed. They do not know the story of indenture which is equally painful in relation to whites who were also slaved under a form of contract slavery where they too were property with no legal rights who could be killed or tortured if their master was so willing. Freed indentures often lived in abject poverty, often rioted and when industry emerged offering jobs... they fought to end slavery so those jobs would come to them. They were desperate people in desperate times and many slave masters sold their slaves South... those who were not sold were often homeless, impoverished and many went back to work for their masters for room and board making abolition a piece of worthless paper as they were still little more than slaves.

Black Americans are also not taught about the thousands of free blacks in the South. They are not taught about the black slave owners. They are not taught about the interracial relationships. They are not taught that the reason slavery persisted in the South was because the North purposely prevented industry from moving into the South and blockaded southern ports so they had to sell raw materials like cotton to the North exclusively. They are not taught that the Republican Party was descended from the Whigs and Federalists who had opposed states rights and the Bill of Rights. They are not taught that as they gained control over the Senate and the Congress that they openly voiced their intent to do away with the Bill of Rights and to end the facade of States rights... nor the fact that after the war ended, they openly tried to do just that and overturned elections across the entire nation won by Democrats replacing them with the Republicans they had defeated. They are not taught how segregation began in the North nor that Abraham Lincoln's opposition to slavery was because he himself had been sold as an indenture to pay his fathers debts and as a man viewed blacks as inferiors in every way... he wanted to free white indentures and end black slavery at the state level only because it denied freed white indentures and free whites in general opportunities. They are not taught that there were two slave states in the Union, that the Emancipation Proclamation was written hoping the slaves would rise up forcing the South to sue for peace while keeping Britain and Canada from entering the war as allies of the Confederacy.

In many speeches, Lincoln tells us his white supremist views but here's one provided to me on another topic you might be interested in...

there's more...
http://www.sodahead.com/united-states/alex-haley-author-of-roots-was-a-fraud-how-about-black-liberal-democrats/blog-297455/

SteelCityMom
05-25-2010, 06:52 PM
I don't even dispute that what was portrayed didn't happen...I'm sure it did, maybe even worse. That isn't the point.

The point is, this kind of regressive thinking fuels victimology. Not doing well right now? Well, for God's sake, don't blame yourself, look to the past! Blame rough treatment of your ancestors! Anything but working harder and smarter and moving on...can't do that (like every OTHER minority group in America past present and probably future).

There always seems to need to be a scapegoat...

I agree completely with this. If anything, ancestors of slaves should use that knowledge to make themselves stronger and work harder....otherwise I think they are spitting on all that their ancestors had to go through.

I just got the feeling from the article that the meaning behind the story was being trivialized. I could have just taken it the wrong way though.

SteelCityMom
05-25-2010, 06:59 PM
Or kidding us. At the time our society bought Haley's account lock stock and barrel. Haley was, apparently, quite a liar (http://hnn.us/articles/129.html). The story goes that the detail came from griots (http://www.americanthinker.com/2009/11/before_dreams_there_was_roots.html).

I just don't see it that way. I never thought that Haley had traced his roots back to Africa (let alone the actual tribe they came from) in such detail. To me, it was obviously embellished (and now I know plagiarized). Didn't change the meaning of the story for me though.



The judge told (http://www.americanthinker.com/2009/11/before_dreams_there_was_roots.html) the Haley team to settle or "he would have to contemplate a perjury charge". So they settled.

Still, you made it sound like the judge concocted the whole deal for Haley. A judge advising someone to take a deal is far different from a judge making the deal himself. It's not uncommon for a judge to say take the deal or you'll be prosecuted in this way. I don't see the big deal with this.

BTW, our Mother traced our family back to the battle of Hastings. But we weren't fortunate enough to have had the advantage of a griot. :chuckle:

Nope, you only need the help of Ancestry.com lol. Maybe a few librarians too.

Vincent
05-25-2010, 07:50 PM
This is actually germane as a lot of the current Mexican-American classes (publicly funded classes, mind you) are just thinly veiled guises barely hiding what they really are: Programmed victimology.

IThe point is, this kind of regressive thinking fuels victimology. Not doing well right now? Well, for God's sake, don't blame yourself, look to the past! Blame rough treatment of your ancestors! Anything but working harder and smarter and moving on...can't do that (like every OTHER minority group in America past present and probably future).

I just got the feeling from the article that the meaning behind the story was being trivialized.

No, the message here wasn’t about Haley’s con, the settlement, or whether or not it is important that tales of genealogy are accurate. The message is victimology that has now been leveraged for more than a generation from the tale, and in that regard “Roots” has been a linchpin in the destruction of this Union.

There are a number of reasons the truth about "Roots" is still ignored. One is that black Americans, primarily because of the influence of Malcolm X and the Nation of Islam, became obsessed with being a "lost" people in America, people who had "no knowledge of self." Younger black people were told they were not Americans, but victims of Americanism. Their true identity, Malcolm X said, was African and Islamic. The truth had been hidden from them by the white man, who was the Devil.

The message of “Roots” is that blacks are “victims of Americanism”. It is critical to the destruction of America that the majority of the 13% that are black “feel” no connection to the Union, and that they indeed see America as bondage to be overcome.

Some years back, Richard Lamm, former democrat gubnor of Colorado made some speeches on the topic “How to destroy America”, not as a proponent of the idea, but as a warning of where we are in that process…

http://www.safehaven.com/article/4837/how-to-destroy-america
How To Destroy America

By: Dick Lamm | Sat, Mar 25, 2006

We know Dick Lamm as the former Governor of Colorado. In that context his thoughts are particularly poignant. Recently there was an immigration overpopulation conference in Washington, DC, filled to capacity by many of American's finest minds and leaders. A brilliant college professor by the name of Victor Davis Hansen talked about his latest book, Mexifornia, explaining how immigration - both legal and illegal was destroying the entire state of California. He said it would march across the country until it destroyed all vestiges of The American Dream.

Moments later, former Colorado Governor Richard D. Lamm stood up and gave a stunning speech on how to destroy America. The audience sat spellbound as he described eight methods for the destruction of the United States. He said, "If you believe that America is too smug, too self-satisfied, too rich, then let's destroy America. It is not that hard to do. No nation in history has survived the ravages of time. Arnold Toynbee observed that all great civilizations rise and fall and that 'An autopsy of history would show that all great nations commit suicide.'"

"Here is how they do it," Lamm said:

"First, to destroy America, turn America into a bilingual or multi-lingual and bicultural country." History shows that no nation can survive the tension, conflict, and antagonism of two or more competing languages and cultures. It is a blessing for an individual to be bilingual; however, it is a curse for a society to be bilingual. The historical scholar, Seymour Lipset, put it this way: 'The histories of bilingual and bi-cultural societies that do not assimilate are histories of turmoil, tension, and tragedy.' Canada, Belgium, Malaysia, and Lebanon all face crises of national existence in which minorities press for autonomy, if not independence. Pakistan and Cyprus have divided. Nigeria suppressed an ethnic rebellion. France faces difficulties with Basques, Bretons, and Corsicans."

Lamm went on: Second, to destroy America, "Invent 'multiculturalism' and encourage immigrants to maintain their culture. I would make it an article of belief that all cultures are equal. That there are no cultural differences. I would make it an article of faith that the Black and Hispanic dropout rates are due solely to prejudice and discrimination by the majority. Every other explanation is out of bounds.

Third, "We could make the United States an 'Hispanic Quebec' without much effort. The key is to celebrate diversity rather than unity. As Benjamin Schwarz said in the Atlantic Monthly recently: 'The apparent success of our own multiethnic and multicultural experiment might have been achieved not by tolerance but by hegemony. Without the dominance that once dictated ethnocentricity and what it meant to be an American, we are left with only tolerance and pluralism to hold us together.' Lamm said, "I would encourage all immigrants to keep their own language and culture. I would replace the melting pot metaphor with the salad bowl metaphor. It is important to ensure that we have various cultural subgroups living in America enforcing their differences rather than as Americans, emphasizing their similarities."

"Fourth, I would make our fastest growing demographic group the least educated. I would add a second underclass, unassimilated, undereducated, and antagonistic to our population. I would have this second underclass have a 50% dropout rate from high. school."

"My fifth point for destroying America would be to get big foundations and business to give these efforts lots of money. I would invest in ethnic identity, and I would establish the cult of 'Victimology.' I would get all minorities to think that their lack of success was the fault of the majority. I would start a grievance industry blaming all minority failure on the majority population."

"My sixth plan for America's downfall would include dual citizenship, and promote divided loyalties. I would celebrate diversity over unity. I would stress differences rather than similarities. Diverse people worldwide are mostly engaged in hating each other - that is, when they are not killing each other. A diverse, peaceful, or stable society is against most historical precedent. People undervalue the unity it takes to keep a nation together. Look at the ancient Greeks. The Greeks believed that they belonged to the same race; they possessed a common language and literature; and they worshipped the same gods. All Greece took part in the Olympic games. A common enemy, Persia, threatened their liberty. Yet all these bonds were not strong enough to overcome two factors: local patriotism and geographical conditions that nurtured political divisions. Greece fell. E. Pluribus Unum -- From many, one. In that historical reality, if we put the emphasis on the 'pluribus'. Instead of the 'Unum,' we will balkanize America as surely as Kosovo."

"Next to last, I would place all subjects off limits; make it taboo to talk about anything against the cult of 'diversity.' I would find a word similar to 'heretic' in the 16th century - that stopped discussion and paralyzed thinking. Words like 'racist' or 'xenophobe' halt discussion and debate. Having made America a bilingual/bicultural country, having established multi-culturism, having the large foundations fund the doctrine of 'Victimology,' I would next make it impossible to enforce our immigration laws. I would develop a mantra: That because immigration has been good for America, it must always be good. I would make every individual immigrant symmetric and ignore the cumulative impact of millions of them."
In the last minute of his speech, Governor Lamm wiped his brow. Profound silence followed. Finally he said,

"Lastly, I would censor Victor Davis Hanson's book, Mexifornia. His book is dangerous. It exposes the plan to destroy America. If you feel America deserves to be destroyed, don't read that book."

There was no applause. A chilling fear quietly rose like an ominous cloud above every attendee at the conference. Every American in that room knew that everything Lamm enumerated was proceeding methodically, quietly, darkly, yet pervasively across the United States today. Discussion is being suppressed. Over 100 languages are ripping the foundation of our educational system and national cohesiveness. Even barbaric cultures that practice female genital mutilation are growing as we celebrate 'diversity.' American jobs are vanishing into the Third World as corporations create a Third World in America - take note of California and other states - to date, ten million illegal aliens and growing fast. It is reminiscent of George Orwell's book, 1984. In that story, three slogans are engraved in the Ministry of Truth building: "War is peace," "Freedom is slavery," and "Ignorance is strength."

Governor Lamm walked back to his seat. It dawned on everyone at the conference that the future of our great nation is deeply in trouble and worsening fast. If we don't get this immigration monster stopped quickly, it will rage like a California wildfire and destroy everything in its path, especially The American Dream.

SteelCityMom
05-25-2010, 08:58 PM
If we don't get this immigration monster stopped quickly, it will rage like a California wildfire and destroy everything in its path, especially The American Dream.

If only everyone had known that earlier. Think of all the immigrants (like my grandparents and great-grandparents) the US should have turned away at Ellis Isle. Why, cities like New York and Pittsburgh would have thrived much better were it not for foreign immigrants.

What is this guy going on about anyway? America has survived it's whole existence on immigrants and multiculturalism. What a crock.

Maybe I'm overstepping my bounds of reality here, but maybe...just maybe, America is doomed for the same reason that every other nation and culture has ultimately been doomed. Greed and religion. People will be people. Utopia is a pipe dream.

Vincent
05-25-2010, 09:11 PM
If only everyone had known that earlier. Think of all the immigrants (like my grandparents and great-grandparents) the US should have turned away at Ellis Isle. Why, cities like New York and Pittsburgh would have thrived much better were it not for foreign immigrants.

What is this guy going on about anyway? America has survived it's whole existence on immigrants and multiculturalism. What a crock.

Maybe I'm overstepping my bounds of reality here, but maybe...just maybe, America is doomed for the same reason that every other nation and culture has ultimately been doomed. Greed and religion. People will be people. Utopia is a pipe dream.

"What is this guy going on about anyway?". Are you serious?

C'mon Mom, try to understand what is being said here. It isn't immigration. Its assimilation. You ancestors and mine assimilated. New York and Pittsburgh work because they did. The "victims" haven't. The invasion from the South isn't. The country is on the edge of the abyss because they won't.

SteelCityMom
05-25-2010, 09:23 PM
"What is this guy going on about anyway?". Are you serious?

C'mon Mom, try to understand what is being said here. It isn't immigration. Its assimilation. You ancestors and mine assimilated. New York and Pittsburgh work because they did. The "victims" haven't. The invasion from the South isn't. The country is on the edge of the abyss because they won't.


Assimilation my ass. Is that why every major city has "Chinatowns" and "Little Italy's" and "Polish Hill's". Heck...three or four generations later and there's still a Chinese grocer in the Strip District (Pittsburgh, Penn. Ave.) where they sell very few American products (if any) and the owners speak extremely broken English.

The majority of immigrants that came into this country (that didn't already speak English...and some that did), formed their own little communities in large cities and began their own businesses with ties to their own cultures. It's a big part of how this country and it's cities were built. It's silly to think that the same wouldn't happen on the southern borders. There's no such thing as "American Culture" without immigrants.

This country was founded on immigration....not assimilation.

And the reason the "invasion" from the South (I'm assuming you mean the Southwest) isn't working now is because of the monetary policies placed on becoming a citizen. How much did you hear about the "lazy Mexican immigrants" 50 or 60 years ago (outside of the "devil marihuana")?

Vincent
05-25-2010, 09:44 PM
We disagree. Leave it at that. I only enjoy pissing contests with Warden.

TheWarDen86
05-25-2010, 09:49 PM
We disagree. Leave it at that. I only enjoy pissing contests with Warden.

Just because you're a big pisser. :chuckle:

:drink:

Vincent
05-25-2010, 09:52 PM
Just because you're a big pisser. :chuckle:

:drink:

I'm not arguing with you. You're arguing with me. I freekin love that line.

See, that's how we assimilate. :rofl:

Godfather
05-25-2010, 10:15 PM
What is this guy going on about anyway? America has survived it's whole existence on immigrants and multiculturalism. What a crock.


Lamm also said that old people have a patriotic duty to die.

TheWarDen86
05-26-2010, 03:02 PM
I'm not arguing with you. You're arguing with me. I freekin love that line.

See, that's how we assimilate. :rofl:

It's a good one!

Indo
05-26-2010, 03:36 PM
You will be Assimilated


http://images.icanhascheezburger.com/completestore/2009/4/4/128833556234717429.jpg