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Tha rock
02-10-2006, 11:03 PM
The lucky guy is art shell!!

http://www.raiders.com/default.jsp#

Ruck Fules
02-10-2006, 11:31 PM
Who cares? Raiders will still suck!

and Stone Cold Steve Austin is better than The Rock.

3 to be 4
02-11-2006, 06:33 AM
its about time the guy got another job. the shame is that for some reason nobody hired him earlier. Its not the race thing because look at all the black head coaches out there now. maybe something else?

the Patriots considered him after the 1998 season.

silver & black
02-11-2006, 10:35 AM
its about time the guy got another job. the shame is that for some reason nobody hired him earlier. Its not the race thing because look at all the black head coaches out there now. maybe something else?

the Patriots considered him after the 1998 season.
I agree. He wasn't a bad coach the first time around. Al admitted that he made a mistake in firing Art. He later learned that other people behind the sceane were causing him problems. Specificaly, what kind of problems, I don't know. Al has regretted it ever since.

Art wasn't my first choice, but I'll get behind him and cheer for my team. It may work out well, after all... He is a Hall of Famer and a real Raider... maybe this incarnation of the Raiders needs a ledgend from the past to come back and teach them how to win. Maybe he can instill in them a little of the old "Raider Mystique", and the "Commitment to Excellence"... I sure do miss that.

Cape Cod Steel Head
02-11-2006, 10:46 AM
The lucky guy is art shell!!

http://www.raiders.com/default.jsp#Lucky???? Glad to see him get a H.C. job, but he is far from lucky having to work once again for that as* hole Al Davis, and in that shitty stadium.

silver & black
02-11-2006, 11:58 AM
Lucky???? Glad to see him get a H.C. job, but he is far from lucky having to work once again for that as* hole Al Davis, and in that shitty stadium.
You guys really should refrain from the name calling. Al Davis isn't perfect, but you, and all other pro football fans owe him a lot... even if you don't know it. Do a little research on Al davis before you slander him... you might get an education.

83-Steelers-43
02-11-2006, 12:01 PM
While I don't like Al Davis (his coach handling in particular), I'm not going to sit here and bash the guy. At the same time, I don't owe Al Davis a damn thing. If I owe anything to anybody in the NFL, it's the Rooney's, but they are getting my season ticket check in the mail every year and paying 6 bucks for a beer...lol. Does that count?

Hines Alou
02-11-2006, 12:05 PM
"I went out there and had a really good visit with Mr. Davis," Whisenhunt said by telephone, "and everything was very positive. But after being at that rally (on Tuesday) with 250,000 people I felt like my heart was really here in Pittsburgh."

Gotta love Coach Whiz...

Anyway, the Raiders still won't be any good on defense, but their offense could definately improve if they get Culpepper like people are talkin about.

tony hipchest
02-11-2006, 12:13 PM
the nfl just breathed a big sigh of relief. al davis bailed them out of what was a big stink of 9 coaches being hired and not one of them a minority (herm edwards just swithed teams). not only did davis do what was right for his team but he did what was right for the nfl. good job al, although im sure he will still be viewed as the , bad guy, renegade owner of the nfl. perhaps unfairly.

SteelCityMan786
02-11-2006, 12:58 PM
Who Cares The Raiders Will Be In A Shell This Year. Prepare to be shelled(As in killed Raiders as well as you other teams) this year.

silver & black
02-11-2006, 01:37 PM
While I don't like Al Davis (his coach handling in particular), I'm not going to sit here and bash the guy. At the same time, I don't owe Al Davis a damn thing. If I owe anything to anybody in the NFL, it's the Rooney's, but they are getting my season ticket check in the mail every year and paying 6 bucks for a beer...lol. Does that count?
Think what you like, but the truth is, Al Davis is a huge part of what the NFL is today. I'm just asking for a little respect for a man that has devoted his life to this game and to this league. Without Al Davis, you would not be here, celebrating your 5th Superbowl title... and that is a fact.

3 to be 4
02-11-2006, 01:38 PM
Who Cares The Raiders Will Be In A Shell This Year. Prepare for a shelling this year.


that was amazing- LY BAD!!!:dang:

83-Steelers-43
02-11-2006, 01:41 PM
I'm just asking for a little respect for a man that has devoted his life to this game and to this league.

That's why I stated I was not going to sit here and bash the man or the Raiders in general, I just feel I don't "owe" him a damn thing. That's all. I'll leave that for The Rooney Family.

Tha rock
02-11-2006, 05:19 PM
CHECK THIS OUT http://www.youtube.com/?v=vWUK51w7qCY

Suitanim
02-11-2006, 05:35 PM
I can't decide who got the short end of this incredibly short stick. Davis had no choice since every qualified candidate turned the offer down, and SOMEONE has to coach that team. And how warm and fuzzy can Art Shell be feeling right now, since he was essentailly the last guy on the list and has already been fired by that whack job once before? At least Shell knows what he's getting into, though. Davis is like the owner of a slum property, and Shell is the property manager...for the second time.

clevestinks
02-11-2006, 05:37 PM
Art went along kicking and screaming, to bad nobody else wanted it!

Tha rock
02-11-2006, 05:37 PM
I can't decide who got the short end of this incredibly short stick. Davis had no choice since every qualified candidate turned the offer down, and SOMEONE has to coach that team. And how warm and fuzzy can Art Shell be feeling right now, since he was essentailly the last guy on the list and has already been fired by that whack job once before? At least Shell knows what he's getting into, though. Davis is like the owner of a slum property, and Shell is the property manager...for the second time.




AL OFFERD THE JOB TO PERTERNO AND THATS IT HE DIDNT WANT ANYONE ELSE BUT ART OR PERTENO ART WILL DO WHAT NEEDS TO BE DONE GET READY!!

clevestinks
02-11-2006, 05:42 PM
Art may be the man for the job, and I hope he is, but you have to be concerned when other say no! That is all asst. dream to become a HC. Al must be a jerk, not a bad owner, just a jerk, I have no respest for Art Shell after the Marcus Allen deal, why would you bench this guy forever

Tha rock
02-11-2006, 06:02 PM
Art may be the man for the job, and I hope he is, but you have to be concerned when other say no! That is all asst. dream to become a HC. Al must be a jerk, not a bad owner, just a jerk, I have no respest for Art Shell after the Marcus Allen deal, why would you bench this guy forever




MARCUS WANTED TO LEAVE HE WAS ALSO AT THE PRESS CONFRENCE!!! WE HAD BO!!

silver & black
02-11-2006, 06:41 PM
I can't decide who got the short end of this incredibly short stick. Davis had no choice since every qualified candidate turned the offer down, and SOMEONE has to coach that team. And how warm and fuzzy can Art Shell be feeling right now, since he was essentailly the last guy on the list and has already been fired by that whack job once before? At least Shell knows what he's getting into, though. Davis is like the owner of a slum property, and Shell is the property manager...for the second time.
Thanks. I now know that although you are intelligent, you will never give respect where it is due. That's ok, I have found a few other Steeler fans here who are willing to be civilized and realize that there are other teams, owners and player that deserve respect. It would be a pretty dull league if the only team in it was the Steelers. You seem to be full of negativity toward anything not Steelers, unable or unwilling to say anything respectful about another team. That's cool... every forum has guys like you.

Suitanim
02-11-2006, 07:15 PM
Thanks. I now know that although you are intelligent, you will never give respect where it is due. That's ok, I have found a few other Steeler fans here who are willing to be civilized and realize that there are other teams, owners and player that deserve respect. It would be a pretty dull league if the only team in it was the Steelers. You seem to be full of negativity toward anything not Steelers, unable or unwilling to say anything respectful about another team. That's cool... every forum has guys like you.

I have a lot of respect for a lot of organizations...I respect the Raiders circa 1980 and before. I think it was about 1983 that Al Davis cracked.

Art Shell is a class guy...he actually did fairly well for the Raiders...didn't the crazy man fire him after taking the Raiders to the AFC Championship one year than slipping to 9-7 the next? It's been 12 years since Shell coached, and if the game hasn't passed him by, and the crazy man doesn't stick his nose into Art's business too much, Shell mey be able to put a competitive product on the field by 2007.

That being said, it's still a joke that the Raiders had to fall back on a guy who has already been HC there. The Raiders are a pale shadow of the juggernaut they used to be...

boLT fan
02-11-2006, 07:33 PM
I have a lot of respect for a lot of organizations...I respect the Raiders circa 1980 and before. I think it was about 1983 that Al Davis cracked.

Art Shell is a class guy...he actually did fairly well for the Raiders...didn't the crazy man fire him after taking the Raiders to the AFC Championship one year than slipping to 9-7 the next? It's been 12 years since Shell coached, and if the game hasn't passed him by, and the crazy man doesn't stick his nose into Art's business too much, Shell mey be able to put a competitive product on the field by 2007.

That being said, it's still a joke that the Raiders had to fall back on a guy who has already been HC there. The Raiders are a pale shadow of the juggernaut they used to be...

So... beautiful. That brought a tear to my eye.

3 to be 4
02-11-2006, 08:00 PM
AL OFFERD THE JOB TO PERTERNO AND THATS IT HE DIDNT WANT ANYONE ELSE BUT ART OR PERTENO ART WILL DO WHAT NEEDS TO BE DONE GET READY!!


oh man. Joe "Perterno" wood been have chouice puurfect for Raiders the.

silver & black
02-12-2006, 10:12 AM
I have a lot of respect for a lot of organizations...I respect the Raiders circa 1980 and before. I think it was about 1983 that Al Davis cracked.

Art Shell is a class guy...he actually did fairly well for the Raiders...didn't the crazy man fire him after taking the Raiders to the AFC Championship one year than slipping to 9-7 the next? It's been 12 years since Shell coached, and if the game hasn't passed him by, and the crazy man doesn't stick his nose into Art's business too much, Shell mey be able to put a competitive product on the field by 2007.

That being said, it's still a joke that the Raiders had to fall back on a guy who has already been HC there. The Raiders are a pale shadow of the juggernaut they used to be...
Thanks for the reply. I probably came on a littlle strong with you. I apologize.

It gets old reading and hearing the same old, worn out rhetoric about Al Davis. I have a few disagreements about how he does things, as well but, that doesn't mean he is senile, or a crack pot, or he has lost it. Al Davis is probably one of the greatest football minds in the game. I would dare say there is no owner, or current head coaches either, for that matter, that knows more about the game.

Al gets a bum rap because he does things his own way... be damned what anyone else thinks. Sometimes he looks like a genius, sometimes a fool. The Raiders are larger than life, and maybe the most recognizable of all pro sports teams in the world, with the exception of maybe the Yankees. This is because of the vision of Al Davis... a larger than life personality. There are lots of people, including Raider fans that want him to step aside and/or sell the team. Al Davis IS the Raiders. I don't know what would become of the Raiders if Al Davis wasn't there anymore. Unfortunately, we will likley find out in the near future... he's up in years, and his health is failing. But he has lost nothing mentally. I still get pumped when I hear him speak... the man is still sharp, and clear in his vision for the Raiders.

We have an insider on our forum that works for the Raiders organisation. He keeps us informed of what is likely to happen. We get information sometimes a day or two before the media does. I knew that Whisenhunt wasn't getting the job, a full day day before you, or the media did. There was only one offer from Al Davis to, anyone, to be the head coach of the Raiders, and that was to Petrino. Whisenhunt was never offered the job. Neither was Al Saunders. It is speculated that the offer was made to Petrino, knowing that he would not except it, prefering instead, to stay at Louisville, with a stable position and avoiding the kaos of the NFL. Our insider tells us that, barring an interview that just blew Al away, Art Shell was a leading candidate from the start.

The absolute mania over Whisenhunt in the Raider Nation was something else to watch unfold. It was almost like it just had to be this guy, or bust. Apparently, Al didn't think he was ready, at this time, to be a head coach, otherwise, he would have been given an offer. It has also come to light that whisenhunt wanted total control. I don't think any young, first time head coach would be given total control by any owner,, let alone Al davis.

Some of Al Davis' reputation is well earned... most is not. Most is fabricated, and perpetuated by the media and the haters. That's ok... the Raiders have never been a team to take the easy road. All the history, acclaim, glory, and championships have come the old fasioned way... IT WAS EARNED.

I know that all you Steeler fans feel the way about your team and ownership... and you should. I visit your forum, because I too, respect the Steeler organisation and ownership. The Steelers approach the game the same way the Raiders do... hard and physical. It is no secret the way both teams play... this is what we do, go ahead and try to stop us... if you can.

In looking back at this whole coaching search, I think the correct decision was made as to who should coach the Raiders. This current team is very young and talented but, they have no dirction. Norv was a horrible coach... no fire or passion. No leadership. When you have players on the sideline that are smiling and laughing while they are getting their ass kicked... there is somethiong wrong! There won't be any of that with Art Shell. I think he is the guy to help this team, at this point, regain what it means to be Raiders. After all, he helped to create the Raider Mystique. He lived it. Who better, to help them get it back?

metalicon
02-12-2006, 10:35 PM
I certain hope that Art does gives the Raiders that much needed shot in the arm. Besides the Steelers, I have watched the Raiders for years and I have never ever seen Oakland in this bad of shape. I remember in the 90's, they may have missed the playoffs quite a bit but at least they were a respectable team. Now they're in that realm with teams like Detroit and Arizona. Consistently bad. That's not Raider football, and they have too much tradition and history to go as south as they have. Here's hoping that along with the Steel, the Black and Silver will be the cream of the AFC and even the NFL.

silver & black
02-13-2006, 05:26 AM
I certain hope that Art does gives the Raiders that much needed shot in the arm. Besides the Steelers, I have watched the Raiders for years and I have never ever seen Oakland in this bad of shape. I remember in the 90's, they may have missed the playoffs quite a bit but at least they were a respectable team. Now they're in that realm with teams like Detroit and Arizona. Consistently bad. That's not Raider football, and they have too much tradition and history to go as south as they have. Here's hoping that along with the Steel, the Black and Silver will be the cream of the AFC and even the NFL.
I hope for the same thing. As a fan that watched the Raiders build their legacy in the 70's... this current bunch of Raiders is a bitter pill to swallow.

It would be nice to see the Steelers and the Raiders play games that are the talk of monday mornings again!

DIESELMAN
02-13-2006, 06:26 AM
I hope Davis has some patience with Shell and the Raiders,its going to take some time to get them turned around and headed in the right direction(Shell will get it done) He's got talent on both sides of the ball and with a good draft and development of some players 2006 might be a good first step to getting there swagger and nastiness back.....:helmet:

Suitanim
02-13-2006, 08:29 AM
If Shell was the leading candidate, why wait until after the season and put your team weeks behind the eight ball? I also don't believe for a second that Whiz wasn't offered the job...this reminds me of a little kid asking a girl if she'll "go with him", and when she turns him down he says "I was just kidding".

syde18T
02-13-2006, 01:53 PM
Doesn't matter. As long as Al Davis runs that franchise, no coach will have the necessary authority over the players, and that'll send the team downwards....

Ambridge
02-13-2006, 05:15 PM
Doesn't matter. As long as Al Davis runs that franchise, no coach will have the necessary authority over the players, and that'll send the team downwards....


IMO the Raiders are going to flounder in the ocean mediocrity or worse as long as Al Davis remains the owner.

silver & black
02-13-2006, 05:22 PM
If Shell was the leading candidate, why wait until after the season and put your team weeks behind the eight ball? I also don't believe for a second that Whiz wasn't offered the job...this reminds me of a little kid asking a girl if she'll "go with him", and when she turns him down he says "I was just kidding".
Believe what you will. I know that Whisenhunt wasn't offered the job. Petrino was the ony one offered the job. Shell was not the first choice, Petrino was. Shell was a leading candidate from the start. Why not wait untill after the Superbowl? Might as well interview the guy and see what he is about... no harm, no foul.

silver & black
02-13-2006, 05:32 PM
IMO the Raiders are going to flounder in the ocean mediocrity or worse as long as Al Davis remains the owner.
If that's the case, Al davis must be given credit for all the divisional titles, AFC championships, and Superbowl wins... correct?

The problem here, is that you all buy into the media hype that you are fed about Al Davis. He is not a popular guy with the NFL and Tagliaboob... for various reasons, so he is a target. Everyone cries about how the media sucks, how the media fabricates, how the media won't let things drop (this year's SB officiating for example)... but when it comes to Al Davis, you buy the bullsh*t... hook, line and sinker. It's ok, the Raiders and their fans are used to the hate... we thrive on it.

Mr. Clean
02-13-2006, 05:36 PM
Ya know, silver & black -
I used to hate the Oakland Raiders more than any other team. We both know the Raiders & Steelers were the greatest teams of the 1970s and their games were nearly earth-shattering.

Al Davis - IMHO - forgot more football than most other people will ever know, but therein lies the problem. Davis is around 80. If one is fortunate enough to live that long, then it's past time to step aside. Dan Rooney is 73 and his son Art now runs the Steelers. Art Rooney gave up his law practice to run the Steelers.

Davis has lost none of his ego, but the game does change, on and off the field. Some men stay too long, such as Don Shula, Tom Landry and Chuck Noll should have retired earlier.
Davis should have been grooming the man to take his place and guide the Raiders. Instead, Davis had to sue the NFL, move to Los Angeles, then he left LA for Oakland when there was no fan support and the LA Coliseum was falling apart. Davis' move led to the Colts, Cardinals, Rams and Browns all moving out of their home cities.

I don't know a lot about the situation but the Oakland Coliseum is about 40 years old and I believe I heard that the A's want to build their own ballpark.

Suitanim
02-13-2006, 05:44 PM
Believe what you will.

You are posting this after the fact. The fact is that Whiz wasn't offered the job because he basically turned it down before it could be offered. He wanted some control, like a legitimate head coach in a legitimate NFL organization would, and, of course the crazy man wouldn't have it.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2006/02/10/SPGA8H69JV1.DTL
http://www.contracostatimes.com/mld/cctimes/sports/football/nfl/oakland_raiders/13838477.htm


To no avail. There was a sizable gap in the amount of control the Raiders were willing to give Whisenhunt, as well as issues over the length of the contract and the annual salary, a person in the Raiders front office said.
In the end, Whisenhunt decided the move from a Super Bowl champion to a team coming off three straight losing seasons wasn't in his best interest. He told the Raiders thanks, but no thanks.
"I went out there and had a really good visit with Mr. Davis," Whisenhunt told CBS Sportsline in a phone interview. "Everything was positive. But after being at that (Super Bowl) rally (Tuesday) with 250,000 people, I felt like my heart was really here in Pittsburgh."



http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2324836
Whisenhunt left Oakland Wednesday night on a red-eye flight without an offer. He was told by Davis that the team would get back to him in a couple of days. Conversations with the team and Whisenhunt continued Thursday morning until Whisenhunt decided that staying with the Steelers was his best move.

syde18T
02-13-2006, 05:48 PM
If that's the case, Al davis must be given credit for all the divisional titles, AFC championships, and Superbowl wins... correct?

The problem here, is that you all buy into the media hype that you are fed about Al Davis. He is not a popular guy with the NFL and Tagliaboob... for various reasons, so he is a target. Everyone cries about how the media sucks, how the media fabricates, how the media won't let things drop (this year's SB officiating for example)... but when it comes to Al Davis, you buy the bullsh*t... hook, line and sinker. It's ok, the Raiders and their fans are used to the hate... we thrive on it.

This has nothing to do with his past accomplishments with the franchise. We're not taking any of that away from him. The fact of the matter is that the head coaching position doesn't come with the necessary authority and control over the players, which is pretty much a must in order for the team to succeed. Davis can offer pretty numbers in salaries all he wants. A good NFL coach needs to have full control over his players in order for him to do his job and succeed at it.

Ambridge
02-13-2006, 05:51 PM
If that's the case, Al davis must be given credit for all the divisional titles, AFC championships, and Superbowl wins... correct?

The problem here, is that you all buy into the media hype that you are fed about Al Davis. He is not a popular guy with the NFL and Tagliaboob... for various reasons, so he is a target. Everyone cries about how the media sucks, how the media fabricates, how the media won't let things drop (this year's SB officiating for example)... but when it comes to Al Davis, you buy the bullsh*t... hook, line and sinker. It's ok, the Raiders and their fans are used to the hate... we thrive on it.

You can't take away any of the accomplishments that Al Davis has achieved in the NFL and I don't hate Al Davis.
I'm just looking at it from the point of view that Al is old and might not be making sound decisions for the Raiders.

Unless Al does an age defying turnaround "ala" Joe Paterno in the next year or two the speculation that he has lost a step or two is going to remain.

silver & black
02-13-2006, 06:22 PM
Ya know, silver & black -
I used to hate the Oakland Raiders more than any other team. We both know the Raiders & Steelers were the greatest teams of the 1970s and their games were nearly earth-shattering.

Al Davis - IMHO - forgot more football than most other people will ever know, but therein lies the problem. Davis is around 80. If one is fortunate enough to live that long, then it's past time to step aside. Dan Rooney is 73 and his son Art now runs the Steelers. Art Rooney gave up his law practice to run the Steelers.

Davis has lost none of his ego, but the game does change, on and off the field. Some men stay too long, such as Don Shula, Tom Landry and Chuck Noll should have retired earlier.
Davis should have been grooming the man to take his place and guide the Raiders. Instead, Davis had to sue the NFL, move to Los Angeles, then he left LA for Oakland when there was no fan support and the LA Coliseum was falling apart. Davis' move led to the Colts, Cardinals, Rams and Browns all moving out of their home cities.

I don't know a lot about the situation but the Oakland Coliseum is about 40 years old and I believe I heard that the A's want to build their own ballpark.
I agree with you. Al Davis should have been/be grooming a successor. I am one who believes that Al needs to relinquish a bit of power, for the good of the Raiders. What I am trying to get across is that Al Davis is unfairly judged in the media. They make him out to be some kind of tyrant that can't be gotten along with, that rules with an iron hand. It simply isn't true. He is more than willing to listen to, and work with his coaches. Some times he disagrees and does what he thinks is best for the Raiders, Sometimes he's right... some times he isn't... just like everyone else.

silver & black
02-13-2006, 06:37 PM
This has nothing to do with his past accomplishments with the franchise. We're not taking any of that away from him. The fact of the matter is that the head coaching position doesn't come with the necessary authority and control over the players, which is pretty much a must in order for the team to succeed. Davis can offer pretty numbers in salaries all he wants. A good NFL coach needs to have full control over his players in order for him to do his job and succeed at it.
Name one new rookie head coach that is given full control in his first head coaching job. The difference in the Raiders job form all other jobs in the NFL, is that there is not one owner that knows what Al Davis knows about football. Put yourself in his shoes... if you had this vast football knowledge, would you not tend to make some decisions about the direction of the team that YOU OWN?

All I'm trying to do is get people to see that Al Davis is not some kind of megalomaniac. He's just a very passionate guy that wants only for the Raiders to win.

Livinginthe past
02-14-2006, 01:18 AM
Name one new rookie head coach that is given full control in his first head coaching job. The difference in the Raiders job form all other jobs in the NFL, is that there is not one owner that knows what Al Davis knows about football. Put yourself in his shoes... if you had this vast football knowledge, would you not tend to make some decisions about the direction of the team that YOU OWN?

All I'm trying to do is get people to see that Al Davis is not some kind of megalomaniac. He's just a very passionate guy that wants only for the Raiders to win.

How true is it that Davis has an obsession with the 'vertical passing game'?

It seems to me that every year with Davis calling the shots, the Raiders have already tipped their hand as far as offensive gameplanning.

Collins had a solid, if unspectaular start to the season and had a long spell without an interception - but little by little teams worked out what the Raiders were trying to do - and they shut them down.

Seems slightly similar to the 2003-2005 Steeler teams that refused to balance out the running plays - teams eventually work you out if you have only one trick - even if it is a very impressive trick.

What do you see from LaMont Jordan next year - is he good enough to be a starter in the NFL?

Plus, what do you see as your main draft priorities?

NM

Tha rock
02-14-2006, 04:09 AM
we will see next seaosn, for all the doubters al davis will be back to normal.

Suitanim
02-14-2006, 08:40 AM
Clark Judge lays down the law on the "Shell Game":

http://www.sportsline.com/nfl/story/9232197

Some Excerpts:
"Poor Art Shell. Poor Oakland. Once, the two were made for each other. Now they seem like unlikely partners doomed to fail."

"The Raiders need a fresh start. They need new players. They need new coaches. They need a new approach. Hiring Shell won't recreate the "Greatness of the Raiders" any more than the club's return to Oakland did."

"That's why the pursuits of Pittsburgh offensive coordinator Ken Whisenhunt and Louisville's Bobby Petrino -- neither of whom had been a head coach in the NFL -- offered hope for a franchise stumbling along at 13-35 the last three seasons. But when they expressed no interest, so did the Raiders"

"But if that's the case why didn't the Raiders reach for Shell sooner? Why did they wait until they were rebuffed by others? More important, why did they jettison him in the first place? All I know is that it sure looks like the Raiders settled -- and that's not good for them or their head coach."

silver & black
02-14-2006, 04:58 PM
How true is it that Davis has an obsession with the 'vertical passing game'?

It seems to me that every year with Davis calling the shots, the Raiders have already tipped their hand as far as offensive gameplanning.

Collins had a solid, if unspectaular start to the season and had a long spell without an interception - but little by little teams worked out what the Raiders were trying to do - and they shut them down.

Seems slightly similar to the 2003-2005 Steeler teams that refused to balance out the running plays - teams eventually work you out if you have only one trick - even if it is a very impressive trick.

What do you see from LaMont Jordan next year - is he good enough to be a starter in the NFL?

Plus, what do you see as your main draft priorities?

NM

I can't disagree with you. It was very frustrating to watch other teams just dismantle us. Our O line was just horrible. Some of that was due to injuries and guys playing out of position for the biggest part of the year. The other problem is that Kerry Collins is not any part of a leader. After 11 years in the NFL, he plays like a damn rookie. He is a statue in the pocket, he has no field vision, he doesn't know how to look off a defender, he panics and throws the ball away, or dumps it off to Jordan. Even when he was given the time, he would over or under throw his recievers. We have Randy freakin Moss... but you would never know it! COLLINS SUCKS!!!

As for Jordan... I do think he can be a starter in the NFL. He had over 1000 yards rushing and 500 yards recieving... behind a terrible O line. With a decent O line and a real Full Back (which we don't have) I think Jordan would do very well.

As far as draft priorities... I think we need to draft defense. I would love to get AJ Hawk or Mario Williams. We really need a dominant outside linebacker, so I would rather get Hawk, but I'll take Williams in a heart beat. Burgess and Williams would be an awsom pass rushing duo. I would address the O line in FA... but that's just me.

QB is another issue... do you start Andrew Walter and let him take his lumps, or do you get a vet, and let Walter take a few snaps in the 4th? I would start Walter and let him learn. We aren't going to the play offs this year anyway... anyone who thinks differently is fooling themselves. There is too much work to be done before we contend again. Realistically, I see us going 9-7. maybe 10-6... that won't be good enough to smell the play offs in the AFC West.

I am hoping for a better than .500 season and a much improved Raider team at the end of 2006. If that happens... 2007 could be interesting.

tony hipchest
02-14-2006, 05:25 PM
as a fantasy football player i drafted t. wheatley and l. jordan the past 2 years expecting good stuff from them in turners offense. so i have followed them really closely. i definitely think l. jordan is a quality starter in the league. 2 many times i have seen the run abandonned early in the game. this really pissed me off when zeoroue was the back up but pretty much was short changed after a few good games. ? for silver & black. do you think r. gallery is just taking a while to learn and thrive in the pro game or is he the only one pulling his weight? also c. woodson. i have always been against this dude and especially his contract. in fact ive thought he has been one of the most over rated defenders since after he won the heisman. are you looking forward to this guy getting the boot?

silver & black
02-14-2006, 05:54 PM
as a fantasy football player i drafted t. wheatley and l. jordan the past 2 years expecting good stuff from them in turners offense. so i have followed them really closely. i definitely think l. jordan is a quality starter in the league. 2 many times i have seen the run abandonned early in the game. this really pissed me off when zeoroue was the back up but pretty much was short changed after a few good games. ? for silver & black. do you think r. gallery is just taking a while to learn and thrive in the pro game or is he the only one pulling his weight? also c. woodson. i have always been against this dude and especially his contract. in fact ive thought he has been one of the most over rated defenders since after he won the heisman. are you looking forward to this guy getting the boot?
Robert Gallery was out of position all year. His natural position is left tackle. Norv said that Barry Simms beat him out for that position during pre season. One would think that since Simms was a sieve all year, that you would move your #1 draft pick back to his natural spot... but we are talking about Norv here.

I agree, Norv never gave the running game a chance. He just panicked and started throwing. We all see how well that worked out.

Ah, C. Woodson and his huge contract. I actually like him, but he can't stay healthy. When he is healthy, I think he is one of the better corners out there. I really can't say if we will keep him or not... Al loves him, so............ I think he will stay if he agrees to restructure his contract, if not, I see him leaving. If he stays, I would like to see him at saftey... I don't think he can be as successful as he once was as a corner. Personally, I can take him or leave him at this point.

tony hipchest
02-14-2006, 06:08 PM
Robert Gallery was out of position all year. His natural position is left tackle. Norv said that Barry Simms beat him out for that position during pre season. One would think that since Simms was a sieve all year, that you would move your #1 draft pick back to his natural spot... but we are talking about Norv here.

I agree, Norv never gave the running game a chance. He just panicked and started throwing. We all see how well that worked out.

Ah, C. Woodson and his huge contract. I actually like him, but he can't stay healthy. When he is healthy, I think he is one of the better corners out there. I really can't say if we will keep him or not... Al loves him, so............ I think he will stay if he agrees to restructure his contract, if not, I see him leaving. If he stays, I would like to see him at saftey... I don't think he can be as successful as he once was as a corner. Personally, I can take him or leave him at this point. fianally an honest assesment of c. wood from a raiderfan. dude just hasnt lived up to the hype and injuries are a big part of that. a. davis has paid him handsomly, and if he had any ammount of youalty he would reward davis for sticking with him. i dont see this in his character though so i guess that will be a question answered later.

the whole gallery deal has seemed bizarre to me. like they were treating him like a 2nd or 3rd rounder. or a mid range free agant pick up. almost seemed like they were expecting the world from him without ever giving him a chance to learn.

silver & black
02-14-2006, 06:28 PM
fianally an honest assesment of c. wood from a raiderfan. dude just hasnt lived up to the hype and injuries are a big part of that. a. davis has paid him handsomly, and if he had any ammount of youalty he would reward davis for sticking with him. i dont see this in his character though so i guess that will be a question answered later.

the whole gallery deal has seemed bizarre to me. like they were treating him like a 2nd or 3rd rounder. or a mid range free agant pick up. almost seemed like they were expecting the world from him without ever giving him a chance to learn.
I agree with you on Gallery. I think we will see Gallery at his natural position this year. Hopefully, Art Shell will have a profound influence on him... a hall of fame left tackle teaching another. I think we will see what Gallery has this coming season.

Norv Turner just didn't seem to have a clue about anything. I can't believe how ineffective he was as a head coach. I attribute half of the Raiders dismal season to his inability to light a fire under the player's asses and his total committment to that worthless collins. I don't think it's possible to have a season like that under Art... at least not without real consequences.

Suitanim
02-14-2006, 06:41 PM
...and his total committment to that worthless collins. I don't think it's possible to have a season like that under Art... at least not without real consequences.

See, this is the delusional nonsense that we expect to hear out of Raiders fans. Collins wasn't loved by Turner, Collins was loved by DAVIS! Davis loves the bomb, and Collins throws a beautiful long ball...however, if you can't run an efficient offense to set up the bomb, it won't work.

This is exactly why the Raiders HC job is the LEAST coveted in the NFL. Turner does as he's told, and tries to make Davis' insane plan work, and when it doesn't, Turner takes all the blame and the Raider fans blindly fall into lock-step.

I'm sorry, but the Raiders will not put a competitive product on the field until Al Davis is removed from the equation.

silver & black
02-14-2006, 07:06 PM
See, this is the delusional nonsense that we expect to hear out of Raiders fans. Collins wasn't loved by Turner, Collins was loved by DAVIS! Davis loves the bomb, and Collins throws a beautiful long ball...however, if you can't run an efficient offense to set up the bomb, it won't work.

This is exactly why the Raiders HC job is the LEAST coveted in the NFL. Turner does as he's told, and tries to make Davis' insane plan work, and when it doesn't, Turner takes all the blame and the Raider fans blindly fall into lock-step.

I'm sorry, but the Raiders will not put a competitive product on the field until Al Davis is removed from the equation.
Well, thanks for your opinion. You and I will just have to agree to disagree.

It doesn't matter how beautiful a long ball Collins throws... unless he has 15 seconds to find a reciever, it aint gonna happen. Even then, he will only make the play 30% of the time because his accuracy sucks. He is a f'ing statue. He can't move. He can't avoid a rush at all. He has no touch... he throws darts and missiles at 5 yards. He has no vision, or leadership skills... HE SUCKS!!!

You really don't want to discuss anything in a civil tone. I think you just want to see if you can get a rise out of me by being sarcastic and berating. I refuse to stupe to your level, but feel free to continue, if you must.

Suitanim
02-14-2006, 07:15 PM
Well, thanks for your opinion. You and I will just have to agree to disagree.

It doesn't matter how beautiful a long ball Collins throws... unless he has 15 seconds to find a reciever, it aint gonna happen. Even then, he will only make the play 30% of the time because his accuracy sucks. He is a f'ing statue. He can't move. He can't avoid a rush at all. He has no touch... he throws darts and missiles at 5 yards. He has no vision, or leadership skills... HE SUCKS!!!

You really don't want to discuss anything in a civil tone. I think you just want to see if you can get a rise out of me by being sarcastic and berating. I refuse to stupe to your level, but feel free to continue, if you must.

I'll answer this very civilly with another question. Who coveted Kerry Collins? Who wanted him on the Raiders?

"Stupe" to my level? Sir, I've asked very simple questions, most of which you've largely been, as far as I can tell, so utterly befuddled by that you've simply ignored them. If anyone is stooping, it's me...attempting to engage in intelligent and level-headed conversation with Raiders nuts has never worked before, yet I keep trying.

See how bad this is, though? I'll try again. I'll repeat the question. Who wanted Kerry Collins on his team? Was it Norv Turner, or Al Davis?

BB2W
02-14-2006, 07:19 PM
I visit a Raiders board and they all bash Wiz and make a big deal about how he can't turn down a job that he was never offered. It's called "removing your name from consideration"... They all wanted him bad until he didn't want them. It would be frustrating if your favorite team couldn't find anyone that wants to coach except a guy that you fired.

I think it's very strange how Davis runs thing... What kinda head coach would want to be second in command and have most of your assistant coaching staff selected for you? I hope Shell does well in Oakland because I do think the AFC is a better place when the Raiders are competitive.

silver & black
02-14-2006, 08:14 PM
I'll answer this very civilly with another question. Who coveted Kerry Collins? Who wanted him on the Raiders?

"Stupe" to my level? Sir, I've asked very simple questions, most of which you've largely been, as far as I can tell, so utterly befuddled by that you've simply ignored them. If anyone is stooping, it's me...attempting to engage in intelligent and level-headed conversation with Raiders nuts has never worked before, yet I keep trying.

See how bad this is, though? I'll try again. I'll repeat the question. Who wanted Kerry Collins on his team? Was it Norv Turner, or Al Davis?
Let's start with "delusional nonsense that we expect to hear out of Raider fans". Then, "...Raider fans fall blindly into lock-step". How should I take comments like that?

As for who wanted Collins... It's not really a secret that Al Davis wanted him, is it? I didn't say Norv wanted him, I said Norv remained committed to him. He did so to the detriment of the team.

What questions do you think I am so "utterly befuddled" by?

So, now I am a "Raider nut"? If you have been trying to talk with this Rock guy, I understand your gripe. I don't see any other Raider fans here, except for him and me. You come across to me as a guy that doesn't want to engage in level-headed conversation. You seem to just want to throw out barbs and witty retorts. I'm not here to fight with Steeler fans. I have been nothing but respectful while I'm here. As long as I am respectful, I expect the same.

For what it's worth, Raider fans are a lot of things... Proud, disillusioned, upset, and hopeful, to name a few. Most of us do not "fall blindly into lock-step" as you say. There is much questioning going on in Raider Nation right now... along with much optimism.

It is easy to look down, and say what is wrong, and pass judgement, when you are on top. You will not always be on top.

3 to be 4
02-14-2006, 08:22 PM
we will see next seaosn, for all the doubters al davis will be back to normal.


yes will we see when doubters Davis will be normal next season

Suitanim
02-14-2006, 08:27 PM
It is easy to look down, and say what is wrong, and pass judgement, when you are on top. You will not always be on top.

That's pretty good...I've "been on top" for about 9 days now, but have been pretty much anti-Al Davis since 1983 or so...

Look, dude, it doesn't really matter to me...But if you always do what you've always done, then you'll always get what you've always got, so you should expect more of the same in Oakland.

Rot at the core spreads outward.

Tha rock
02-15-2006, 01:54 AM
yes will we see when doubters Davis will be normal next season




i mean by winning pasty!

3 to be 4
02-15-2006, 09:31 PM
i mean by winning pasty!


you won a pastry? is it creamy and gooey?:blurp: