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chewbacka
08-07-2010, 09:11 AM
Finally the Levy apology and admition of guilt comes - but of course I suspect its only because he's in the presence of Seahawks. That said I'm gonna take every initiative I can to spread that apology nation wide and especially to those ****y Steelers fans that never acknowledged the officiating was beyond horrid.

And for all of you that were on the fence about it (which I can't imagine why anyone with a brain would be) here is finally all the redemption the Hawks will get unfortunatley. Some have said after that game like the standard things when calls don't go your way like: "if they had done their job good enough (the Hawks) then it wouldnt have mattered" but this super bowls situation was nothing like that and those type of comments had no place. For it wasn't that the Hawks were less than prepared, or just needed a close call to go their way.
No, this was a case where immensely insane calls were made on things not even close to penalties, almost as if they made up new rules while the game progressed.

Thats why in my mind Seattle has and always will have a super bowl win, because make no bones about it, that was a super bowl win period. We just weren't awarded the trophy. Call it a charitable contribution to the Steelers so the media could have the Jerome Bettis retirement party they craved. And, I think Levy himself had to have wanted too.
Too bad he'll never admit how much cash he made for making those calls, or ever have his feet held to the fire for them. In my mind there's no amount of lost sleep that will ever make up for what he did that day and I do hope he finally comes totally clean before he goes to the grave.

Then maybe the NFL will re-issure the Lombardi Trophy to its rightful place, or just wipe the result out and erase the Super Bowl as never happening. I think we should also have banners put up in Quest field stating that we are super bowl champions. But again, thats too much to expect for Seattle...we'll just go along and accept the result just like we did back when it happened. But I really hope this response from Levy made national news and not just local.

Also, I wish he'd gone a step farther because he only admitted bad calls in the 4th quarter. He still hasn't admitted the pass interference call on D-Jack, or the illegal clip on Matt Hasselbeck who made a textbook tackle most Qb's wouldnt even try. Every bad call in that game went against the Hawks and all were not even close to being penaltys.

DoctorCAD
08-07-2010, 09:13 AM
Tough crap, loser.

steelerschik
08-07-2010, 09:56 AM
Finally the Levy apology and admition of guilt comes - but of course I suspect its only because he's in the presence of Seahawks. That said I'm gonna take every initiative I can to spread that apology nation wide and especially to those ****y Steelers fans that never acknowledged the officiating was beyond horrid.

And for all of you that were on the fence about it (which I can't imagine why anyone with a brain would be) here is finally all the redemption the Hawks will get unfortunatley. Some have said after that game like the standard things when calls don't go your way like: "if they had done their job good enough (the Hawks) then it wouldnt have mattered" but this super bowls situation was nothing like that and those type of comments had no place. For it wasn't that the Hawks were less than prepared, or just needed a close call to go their way.
No, this was a case where immensely insane calls were made on things not even close to penalties, almost as if they made up new rules while the game progressed.

Thats why in my mind Seattle has and always will have a super bowl win, because make no bones about it, that was a super bowl win period. We just weren't awarded the trophy. Call it a charitable contribution to the Steelers so the media could have the Jerome Bettis retirement party they craved. And, I think Levy himself had to have wanted too.
Too bad he'll never admit how much cash he made for making those calls, or ever have his feet held to the fire for them. In my mind there's no amount of lost sleep that will ever make up for what he did that day and I do hope he finally comes totally clean before he goes to the grave.

Then maybe the NFL will re-issure the Lombardi Trophy to its rightful place, or just wipe the result out and erase the Super Bowl as never happening. I think we should also have banners put up in Quest field stating that we are super bowl champions. But again, thats too much to expect for Seattle...we'll just go along and accept the result just like we did back when it happened. But I really hope this response from Levy made national news and not just local.

Also, I wish he'd gone a step farther because he only admitted bad calls in the 4th quarter. He still hasn't admitted the pass interference call on D-Jack, or the illegal clip on Matt Hasselbeck who made a textbook tackle most Qb's wouldnt even try. Every bad call in that game went against the Hawks and all were not even close to being penaltys.

LOL, the fact that you actually believe the Lombardi's "rightful" place is in Seattle just proves the loser mentality you display. The Cryhawks lost and defeat is painful, I understand, but to cry over it for 5 years is beyond pathetic. The hawks did nothing extraordinary to win the game, they did nothing on defense to stop Willie or Hines. While neither team played great, one team played well enough to win, the other failed. I still am in disbelief that Seattle was in the SB in the first place. Tell me again, how many more times did they end up in the SB since 2005? Yeah, exactly. They WERE NOT a championship team then, they ARE NOT one now and I have serious doubt they EVER will be. I believe the Steelers went on to another SB and won...oh but that's right, only when the Steelers win it's due to the refs, ALL OTHER teams earn their wins. This is why is just doesn't matter what you or the other whiny fans of teams who blame refs for a loss instead of their head coach or team. It's just laughable.

SteeleReign
08-07-2010, 10:02 AM
Why are you here? Do you think you're going to get any sympathy or contrition from Steelers fans? Go away & cry to yourself - as you obviously have been doing now for 5 years...

steelerchad
08-07-2010, 11:28 AM
Finally the Levy apology and admition of guilt comes - but of course I suspect its only because he's in the presence of Seahawks. That said I'm gonna take every initiative I can to spread that apology nation wide and especially to those ****y Steelers fans that never acknowledged the officiating was beyond horrid.

And for all of you that were on the fence about it (which I can't imagine why anyone with a brain would be) here is finally all the redemption the Hawks will get unfortunatley. Some have said after that game like the standard things when calls don't go your way like: "if they had done their job good enough (the Hawks) then it wouldnt have mattered" but this super bowls situation was nothing like that and those type of comments had no place. For it wasn't that the Hawks were less than prepared, or just needed a close call to go their way.
No, this was a case where immensely insane calls were made on things not even close to penalties, almost as if they made up new rules while the game progressed.

Thats why in my mind Seattle has and always will have a super bowl win, because make no bones about it, that was a super bowl win period. We just weren't awarded the trophy. Call it a charitable contribution to the Steelers so the media could have the Jerome Bettis retirement party they craved. And, I think Levy himself had to have wanted too.
Too bad he'll never admit how much cash he made for making those calls, or ever have his feet held to the fire for them. In my mind there's no amount of lost sleep that will ever make up for what he did that day and I do hope he finally comes totally clean before he goes to the grave.

Then maybe the NFL will re-issure the Lombardi Trophy to its rightful place, or just wipe the result out and erase the Super Bowl as never happening. I think we should also have banners put up in Quest field stating that we are super bowl champions. But again, thats too much to expect for Seattle...we'll just go along and accept the result just like we did back when it happened. But I really hope this response from Levy made national news and not just local.

Also, I wish he'd gone a step farther because he only admitted bad calls in the 4th quarter. He still hasn't admitted the pass interference call on D-Jack, or the illegal clip on Matt Hasselbeck who made a textbook tackle most Qb's wouldnt even try. Every bad call in that game went against the Hawks and all were not even close to being penaltys.


I know Seattle's never won one, but maybe you can get one this year. Oh, that's right. Your team has spiraled downward since then and we've won another SB in the meantime. Oh well, like I stated in another post. How could a Seahawks fan assume that win when it wasn't really all that close. Steelers were up 11 points, kneeling out the clock in the Hawks Redzone when the game ended. That should have been a 14-20 point win for the Black and Gold. Hawks only TD came on a rediculous int by our 2nd year QB on the Hawks goaline. We should have had 7 and gave 7 up instead. 14 point swing right there and they still lost by 11? WTF.

supa_fly_steeler
08-07-2010, 12:01 PM
Lol chewbaka, have u ever had ***** before? first you make a star wars name then you come and talk shit.

didnt the next season we shut you ****ign out of the game? so shut the **** up.

pete74
08-07-2010, 12:50 PM
There is one winner and one loser for every game and that's all thatstters. Nobody remembers the loser except for the losers themselvs

FourThreeMafia
08-07-2010, 12:51 PM
For one, the Steelers have gotten screwed over on a bad calls so many times, we were due for some to go in our favor.

Seahawks have some of the whiniest fans in the league. They cry about every penalty in that game....even the ones that were totally legit.

Is it a coincidence this guy is just NOW saying this, 4+ years AFTER it was over, when he is IN Seattle? No...no its not.

See, we got an apology for the blown call right after the Colts game, when they overturned Troys INT. Difference is, we were good enough to overcome that and pull it out.

Yes, how about Seattle fans make more excuses about Willie's 75 yard run, the ARE to Ward TD pass, and the horrible clock management that killed Seattle at the end of both halves.

Funny how they also forget to mention Sean Locklear holding all game and several Pass INT calls that couldve easily went against the Seahawks.

Keep crying...the Lombardi is in Pittsburgh and thats where it will stay forever. No one outside of Seattle cares about the Shehawks, and they will suck for the foreseeable future, so I guess I understand why you have to dwell in the past.

SteelCityMom
08-07-2010, 12:53 PM
Finally the Levy apology and admition of guilt comes - but of course I suspect its only because he's in the presence of Seahawks. That said I'm gonna take every initiative I can to spread that apology nation wide and especially to those ****y Steelers fans that never acknowledged the officiating was beyond horrid.

And for all of you that were on the fence about it (which I can't imagine why anyone with a brain would be) here is finally all the redemption the Hawks will get unfortunatley. Some have said after that game like the standard things when calls don't go your way like: "if they had done their job good enough (the Hawks) then it wouldnt have mattered" but this super bowls situation was nothing like that and those type of comments had no place. For it wasn't that the Hawks were less than prepared, or just needed a close call to go their way.
No, this was a case where immensely insane calls were made on things not even close to penalties, almost as if they made up new rules while the game progressed.

Thats why in my mind Seattle has and always will have a super bowl win, because make no bones about it, that was a super bowl win period. We just weren't awarded the trophy. Call it a charitable contribution to the Steelers so the media could have the Jerome Bettis retirement party they craved. And, I think Levy himself had to have wanted too.
Too bad he'll never admit how much cash he made for making those calls, or ever have his feet held to the fire for them. In my mind there's no amount of lost sleep that will ever make up for what he did that day and I do hope he finally comes totally clean before he goes to the grave.

Then maybe the NFL will re-issure the Lombardi Trophy to its rightful place, or just wipe the result out and erase the Super Bowl as never happening. I think we should also have banners put up in Quest field stating that we are super bowl champions. But again, thats too much to expect for Seattle...we'll just go along and accept the result just like we did back when it happened. But I really hope this response from Levy made national news and not just local.

Also, I wish he'd gone a step farther because he only admitted bad calls in the 4th quarter. He still hasn't admitted the pass interference call on D-Jack, or the illegal clip on Matt Hasselbeck who made a textbook tackle most Qb's wouldnt even try. Every bad call in that game went against the Hawks and all were not even close to being penaltys.

You know what would have helped the Seahags win even more? If they hadn't let up the longest TD in Superbowl history. Or if they hadn't let Antwaan Randall El throw a TD to Hines Ward. Or if Jeremy Stevens could actually catch a ball. Or if the Hawks kicker could make a FG. Or if Holmgren know how to freaking manage the clock. And you wanna complain about getting 7 penalties? All of which were good except for the call on Hasselbeck IN THE FOURTH QUARTER!. Even if you think the holding call against Locklear was bad...it doesn't mean you go and throw and INT on the next play and then let the Steelers score 7 a couple plays later.

Bad calls happen all the time. Good teams find a way to deal with it....bad teams let it take over their game.

Also...here's a clip of the hold on Haggans, one of the two penalties called against Seattle in the 4th. (the other being the low block penalty on Hasselbeck after he threw and INT...bad call, but didn't really change too much).

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Suck on it whiny loser.

FourThreeMafia
08-07-2010, 01:03 PM
You know what would have helped the Seahags win even more? If they hadn't let up the longest TD in Superbowl history. Or if they hadn't let Antwaan Randall El throw a TD to Hines Ward. Or if Jeremy Stevens could actually catch a ball. Or if the Hawks kicker could make a FG. Or if Holmgren know how to freaking manage the clock. And you wanna complain about getting 7 penalties? All of which were good except for the call on Hasselbeck IN THE FOURTH QUARTER!. Even if you think the holding call against Locklear was bad...it doesn't mean you go and throw and INT on the next play and then let the Steelers score 7 a couple plays later.

Bad calls happen all the time. Good teams find a way to deal with it....bad teams let it take over their game.

Also...here's a clip of the hold on Haggans, one of the two penalties called against Seattle in the 4th. (the other being the low block penalty on Hasselbeck after he threw and INT...bad call, but didn't really change too much).

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Suck on it whiny loser.

Like I said...they are blissfully ignorant. They complain about everything in that game that benefited the Steelers. I guess when you cheer for such a crappy franchise, you cant help but be bitter when you lose the big one.

BIGWILL90
08-07-2010, 01:11 PM
"Bad calls happen all the time. Good teams find a way to deal with it....bad teams let it take over their game".

Couldn't of said it better man. :applaudit:

supa_fly_steeler
08-07-2010, 01:28 PM
i wouldnt care if seattle seahawk fans all died, and i know a fair few, dont like them tbh really just business friends lmao.

the city is also really shitty. i hate everything about seattle.

FourThreeMafia
08-07-2010, 01:37 PM
i wouldnt care if seattle seahawk fans all died, and i know a fair few, dont like them tbh really just business friends lmao.

the city is also really shitty. i hate everything about seattle.

I dont know what part of Seattle youve been to, but thats way off.

supa_fly_steeler
08-07-2010, 01:40 PM
the seattle locker rooms

Gremlin
08-07-2010, 01:49 PM
i wouldnt care if seattle seahawk fans all died, and i know a fair few, dont like them tbh really just business friends lmao.

]the city is also really shitty. i hate everything about seattle.

That's a bit extreme don't you think? :chuckle:

FourThreeMafia
08-07-2010, 02:24 PM
That's a bit extreme don't you think? :chuckle:

Yeah...they arent ALL bad. Just 4 out of every 5. :hatsoff:

Seriously, I love Seattle (the city, not the teams) and most the people there are chill. Every team has fans like that, including the Steelers.

supa_fly_steeler
08-07-2010, 04:35 PM
That's a bit extreme don't you think? :chuckle:

hmmm no the seattle fans i talked to said there whole fan base are a bunch of crybabies, that they are all deluded there going to the super bowl each season.

my favourite part of my favourite city, in a LEDC City, much nicer than seattle

http://www.leotrippi.com/images/gallery/1068/leogallery/Cape_Town_Best_Sunset.jpg

http://www.topholidayvideos.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/06/capetown.jpg

StainlessStill
08-07-2010, 05:21 PM
Not this shit again. Lets round up the whole entire league of officials and cry, bitch and moan about every "bad call" they think they've cost teams over the years in big games. There wouldn't be a single credible ref out there, so lets stop the bullshit. Officiating and human error is needed in the game and they will continue to be used. Can't change the history book after EVERY blown call known to man.


Early in the fourth quarter, tackle Sean Locklear was called for holding (It WAS holding for Christ sake. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lcTm9PPdT3I. THAT-IS-HOLDING.)

After the penalty, Matt Hasselbeck threw an interception, and then was called for a low block on a play that ended with him tackling Pittsburgh's Ike Taylor on the defensive back's return.

(How about lets not throw the interception and not chop block a defender on the pick? So that holding call, which it was, made Hasselback throw a pick the next play? Bullshit.)

The penalty moved the Steelers from their 29 to the 44. Pittsburgh used its better field position to score the clinching touchdown four plays later.

(How about the defense showing up and stopping us. That year, Pittsburgh's defense was the best defending inside the 20 yard line. It could of been done for Seattle to stop the Steelers offensive attack. They couldn't. We still executed our plays, esp the play from Randle EL to Ward. Not our fault OR the refs that Seattle couldn't stop it.)

The next day, then-Seahawks coach Mike Holmgren told fans at a civic gathering at Qwest Field, "I knew it was going to be tough going up against the Pittsburgh Steelers. I didn't know we were going to have to play the guys in the striped shirts, as well."

"The league felt, actually, that the Super Bowl was well officiated. Now, that doesn't mean there were no mistakes. There are always mistakes, but it was a well-officiated game.


http://farm1.static.flickr.com/29/102677080_28cff1b92c.jpg

Gremlin
08-07-2010, 09:03 PM
hmmm no the seattle fans i talked to said there whole fan base are a bunch of crybabies, that they are all deluded there going to the super bowl each season.

my favourite part of my favourite city, in a LEDC City, much nicer than seattle

http://www.leotrippi.com/images/gallery/1068/leogallery/Cape_Town_Best_Sunset.jpg

http://www.topholidayvideos.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/06/capetown.jpg

There is no way you're over the age of 14. If so- I'm very sorry.

supa_fly_steeler
08-08-2010, 08:59 AM
Jealous of our great country... seems so.

MassSteeler
08-08-2010, 11:01 AM
Seattle played flat, uninspired football that day and lost the game. They couldn't score and they didn't stop the big plays when they mattered. I've seen the game a few times since then and most of the plays people point out as being bad calls really weren't; they just happened to be at times where Seattle was threatening which gives the perception of bad officiating to non-Steelers fans.

bobby jr
08-08-2010, 11:53 AM
Except for Steeler fans people nationwide pretty much agreed that the bad calls favored the Steelers that day i 2006. The refs statement only confirms that perception.Face it, the ref coming out like this is not good news for Steeler fans. One of their Super Bowl titles will now be looked upon as the KC Royals WS win which was in part due to a blown call at first base in the 9th inning, which the umpire owned up to.
.
Here in Baltimore, I've heard people say that the NFL wants the Steelers to win and they get the benefit of refs calls and that held true in that 2006 Super Bowl


It seems the Ravens always get a hard schedule and the close calls don't go our way and plenty of penalties against the Ravens too. I don't know if it's because Some in the NFL haven't forgiven the team for leaving Cleveland or what. But the Ravens overcome this and are in the hunt year after year.

rbryan
08-08-2010, 01:33 PM
Another crybaby fan base heard from. Poor ratbirds...never get a fair shake. boo hoo hoo.

It's all good until the school yard bully gets smacked right back in the mouth. "Hines Ward hits us when we're not expecting it"

Shouldn't you be getting back to your hero worship of murdering Ray Ray and the rest of the criminals on your sorry team.

mikegrimey
08-08-2010, 01:58 PM
Again most of you are too blinded by your biases to make anything reasonable out of all this.

For starters there were multiple blown calls against the Seahawks in Superbowl XL. People denying this are just deluding themselves.
People trying to change the subject by bringing up irrelevant facts to the officiating like
"Tell me what seattle did to win"
"Seattle played a sloppy game overall"
"Seattle didn't let WP run for 75 yards"

Are deluded as well. These points have no bearing towards a discussion about THE OFFICIATING of the game. So far I've only seen a couple of people actually try to justify the officiating.
The attempt to justify the bogus offensive pass interference call "I've seen it called for less" is flat out bunk. I've never seen a more flagrant abuse of the "rules" then calling back a TD because of something so insignificant as that.
Others have posted a video of the alleged "holding" in dispute and it's just like I remember it, not a hold and a terrible call.



Not that Bobby Jr's prognosis makes any sense either. To suggest that the NFL wanted the Steelers to win and botched the calls on purpose just doesn't make sense, but doesn't suprise me that it's being said in Raven's country.
The real point people are missing is that games have bad calls in them every week, it's just that these bad calls don't always happen at the most important moments.

Leavy admitting he blew a couple of calls shoudln't give any creedence to conspiracy theorists who think the SB was fixed. The fact that people think the NFL could pull off a fix in this day and age is kind of funny to me. Not that the NFL doesn't have it's power teams that they favor (New Orleans after Katrina because of the propaganda, Steelers going for their 6th, the Patriots dynasty, the Colts) They can't even fix things in the military (Pat Tillman's death) without getting found out.
The referees in SB 40 were trying to do their job, but some of them just bungled the job.

Bobby Jr then goes on to do his best impersonation of the stupid steelers fans in this thread by bitching about the ravens
"hard schedule" and "close calls against them" and "lots of penalties". Whine, whine, whine.

Complaining about always getting a "hard schedule" shows that you're not really paying attention. The teams you play are on a rotating basis, the only 2 not set in stone are the 2 based on the place your team finished in. Outside of a game or 2 there's not even the possibility of your schedule being harder than the steelers, browns, bengals.

Here's a newsflash, every fan of every team I've ever run across has a list of officiating faults that have cost their team this or not. Most of them amount to nothing at all but hometown bitching. Those "blown calls" that everyone in your hometown throws a fit about probably don't amount to much to the eyes of an objective observer.

A final note. The Raven's are highly penalized each year, because they deserve it. They're a tough team annually and a worthy foe but they could use a little discipline. A lot of their stupid penalties in the division are 15 yarders because of late hits or helmet hits. They blew their chance to beat the Bengals in week 5 last year because of hits like that.

KitsapSteve
08-08-2010, 02:36 PM
Lets see, He makes this HUGE Apology while in Seattle, Wont say what calls it was, in Seattle, This was Breaking News. Ever though they forgot they didnt make the plays to win the game... Nice Media story NFL.

SteelCityMom
08-08-2010, 02:58 PM
Are deluded as well. These points have no bearing towards a discussion about THE OFFICIATING of the game. So far I've only seen a couple of people actually try to justify the officiating.
The attempt to justify the bogus offensive pass interference call "I've seen it called for less" is flat out bunk. I've never seen a more flagrant abuse of the "rules" then calling back a TD because of something so insignificant as that.
Others have posted a video of the alleged "holding" in dispute and it's just like I remember it, not a hold and a terrible call.

Whether you think the holding was a terrible call or not is irrelevant as well. If you actually watched the video you'd realize that holding calls have been called for a lot less (and worse examples of holding sometimes never get called). Even if you don't think it was a good call, you have to admit it's something, in a refs eyes, could have gone either way....especially if Locklear had been warned about it previously in the game.

As for the PI call (which isn't even something Levy mentions in his "apology"), I've seen that called for much less as well, even against the Steelers. I'm not saying it was a great call...but I've seen WR's back into defenders in the endzone and the defending team gets a PI call, for doing nothing but being there.

And it certainly isn't irrelevant to point out that Seattle had plenty of opportunities to overcome those calls, yet didn't. Even if there were a couple of blown calls, they had at least 150 other opportunities to make something happen that game, and couldn't. Their WR's (Stevens especially) couldn't catch a cold, their PK couldn't make FG's, Holmgren STANK at clock management at the end of both halves and plenty of other mistakes that, had they not happened, could have erased any iffy calls.

Sure it's easy to look back on it and blame the refs for the loss, but the simple fact of the matter is...even if every call against Seattle (of which there were 7) was a horrible call...they still had at least 150 other plays they could have made, but didn't. It's just a bunch of whiny nonsense.

rbryan
08-08-2010, 03:40 PM
The Offensive Pass interference call was blatant. Just because it doesn't get called all the time is no excuse for all the tears. It was still a penalty.

Listen to Warren Moons call of the Locklear holding call on Haggans. "They're going to call that everytime" Once again just because holding gets called about once out of every 4 or 5 times it happens is no excuse for the tears either.

Sorry but I've watched the replay of Ben's TD a hundred times and the ball still touches the front of the goal line everytime. Maybe read up on the rules. Better yet....... all of you crybabies grow a pair and get on with your life. This was a sorry argument 5 years ago and it's not any more relevent today.

bobby jr
08-08-2010, 04:51 PM
Mikegrimey you do raise some valid points. But the NFL should have admitted at the time the 2006 Superbowl had those bad calls. Instead they put out a statement after the game the game was well officiated. What a laugh! The very opposite of the truth. Finally 4 1/2 years later the ref admits that it was not well officiated.

When the Jacksonville QB Gerard ran up the middle for 30 yards and cost the Steelers the playoff game I recall the NFL put out an apology after the game for an uncalled holding call on that play. Why wasn't such an apology issued to Seattle fans after the 2006 Super Bowl? It should have been.

Now as for the Ravens I suppose that is off topic so I won't pursue it further here. Except to say I believe the NFL does have their favorite teams and players and the calls by the refs reflect that fact. I've seen the Ravens called for roughing the passer with Tom Brady when it wasn't even close to roughing. The Ravens are not a favored team in the NFL, they don't get the benefit of those type of bogus calls. And the penalties are not all justified either.

supa_fly_steeler
08-08-2010, 04:54 PM
Now as for the Ravens I suppose that is off topic so I won't pursue it further here. Except to say I believe the NFL does have their favorite teams and players and the calls by the refs reflect that fact. I've seen the Ravens called for roughing the passer with Tom Brady when it wasn't even close to roughing. The Ravens are not a favored team in the NFL, they don't get the benefit of those type of bogus calls. And the penalties are not all justified either.

ravens must be a favorite nfl team.

they pussied out of a prime time game against us.... lol weak

SteelCityMom
08-08-2010, 05:08 PM
Mikegrimey you do raise some valid points. But the NFL should have admitted at the time the 2006 Superbowl had those bad calls. Instead they put out a statement after the game the game was well officiated. What a laugh! The very opposite of the truth. Finally 4 1/2 years later the ref admits that it was not well officiated.

When the Jacksonville QB Gerard ran up the middle for 30 yards and cost the Steelers the playoff game I recall the NFL put out an apology after the game for an uncalled holding call on that play. Why wasn't such an apology issued to Seattle fans after the 2006 Super Bowl? It should have been.

Now as for the Ravens I suppose that is off topic so I won't pursue it further here. Except to say I believe the NFL does have their favorite teams and players and the calls by the refs reflect that fact. I've seen the Ravens called for roughing the passer with Tom Brady when it wasn't even close to roughing. The Ravens are not a favored team in the NFL, they don't get the benefit of those type of bogus calls. And the penalties are not all justified either.

I'm not sure if the league issued an apology to the Steelers for that (Jags game), it's possible, but I really just don't remember. If they did, it was unnecessary. Ben throwing 3 INT's in the first half cost the Steelers the game (even though they did an admirable job of coming close to winning in the end), not a missed holding call. It's easy to point at one thing and say that's what cost them the game...but it would have been a total non-issue if the Steelers hadn't played like pee-wee's in the first half.

You'd think if the refs and the league were favoring the Steelers so much, they would have done a much better job of not letting the Jags score at the end there. Surely someone must have been flogged for that.

steelerschik
08-08-2010, 05:25 PM
I'm not sure if the league issued an apology to the Steelers for that (Jags game), it's possible, but I really just don't remember. If they did, it was unnecessary. Ben throwing 3 INT's in the first half cost the Steelers the game (even though they did an admirable job of coming close to winning in the end), not a missed holding call. It's easy to point at one thing and say that's what cost them the game...but it would have been a total non-issue if the Steelers hadn't played like pee-wee's in the first half.

You'd think if the refs and the league were favoring the Steelers so much, they would have done a much better job of not letting the Jags score at the end there. Surely someone must have been flogged for that.

LOL, no...no such apology ever occurred. I even responded to a post of his noting that no apology was ever issued. In fact, nothing was said about it at all. I now realize this guy is either just trying to get our feathers ruffled or he really is dumber than dirt. In the other thread on this topic, I typed out some stats from SB40, the game this dimrod said the hawks outplayed the Steelers. The numbers show that to be false. Of course, he avoided the thread because it contains factual numbers and couldn't be bothered by facts. This is the typical Ravens fan, nothing more, nothing less. He's just another disgruntled fan of a team that will never be in the same league with the Steelers...another wannabe.

bobby jr
08-08-2010, 06:03 PM
I'm not sure if the league issued an apology to the Steelers for that (Jags game), it's possible, but I really just don't remember. If they did, it was unnecessary. Ben throwing 3 INT's in the first half cost the Steelers the game (even though they did an admirable job of coming close to winning in the end), not a missed holding call. It's easy to point at one thing and say that's what cost them the game...but it would have been a total non-issue if the Steelers hadn't played like pee-wee's in the first half.

You'd think if the refs and the league were favoring the Steelers so much, they would have done a much better job of not letting the Jags score at the end there. Surely someone must have been flogged for that.

OK my bad. i thought there was an apology. actually I got this from a Steelers fan on another forum who told me the NFL apologized for the uncalled holding on the Gerrard run.

bobby jr
08-08-2010, 06:05 PM
LOL, no...no such apology ever occurred. I even responded to a post of his noting that no apology was ever issued. In fact, nothing was said about it at all. I now realize this guy is either just trying to get our feathers ruffled or he really is dumber than dirt. In the other thread on this topic, I typed out some stats from SB40, the game this dimrod said the hawks outplayed the Steelers. The numbers show that to be false. Of course, he avoided the thread because it contains factual numbers and couldn't be bothered by facts. This is the typical Ravens fan, nothing more, nothing less. He's just another disgruntled fan of a team that will never be in the same league with the Steelers...another wannabe.

Of course the stats are pretty meaningless because the stats of the game were heavily influenced by the bad calls. Also the Hawks fell well behind due to the calls, and played desperation football near the end, which showed up in the game stats. The stats would have been totally different for that game if not for the bad calls.

steelerschik
08-08-2010, 06:21 PM
Of course the stats are pretty meaningless because the stats of the game were heavily influenced by the bad calls. Also the Hawks fell well behind due to the calls, and played desperation football near the end, which showed up in the game stats. The stats would have been totally different for that game if not for the bad calls.

LOL, really? That's a fact, huh? No, that is your OPINION. You fail to realize the hawks played lousy that day, as did the Steelers, but they played even worse. You are acting like there were 8-9 penalties that made the whole game different. There were 2...TWO...DOS, that are in question. If 2 calls, which is all he admitted to, ruin 60 minutes of football, then you are having serious problems winning to begin with. Better yet, he never even said which calls those were. The hawks never during the course of the game outplayed the Steelers. They couldn't get FGs or catch the ball which resulted in NO SCORES. They couldn't convert a damn thing. Oh that's right, there were penalties against them during each and every down (which would make about what 17), that's right. How silly of me to not know this. You do realize after a penalty, you get another chance at a play, right? Oh that's right, the refs took those chances away from them too, I forgot. The bottom line here is they did not play well enough to win. Keep on trying to diminish a SB win, it won't work.

FourThreeMafia
08-08-2010, 06:32 PM
Now as for the Ravens I suppose that is off topic so I won't pursue it further here. Except to say I believe the NFL does have their favorite teams and players and the calls by the refs reflect that fact. I've seen the Ravens called for roughing the passer with Tom Brady when it wasn't even close to roughing. The Ravens are not a favored team in the NFL, they don't get the benefit of those type of bogus calls. And the penalties are not all justified either.

All you do is make excuses. Okay then...

The Ravens got away with murder in the 2008 divisional playoffs against the Titans. They shouldnt have even won that game. Good thing they were promptly removed the following week.

If the Steelers are so favored, how comes OTs are never called for holding James Harrison all game? Jared Gaither held him 7 times in one game in 2009 and it was called ONCE.

If you want to say the Steelers benefited from officiating in SB XL, go ahead, but the fact is, Seattle had tons of chances to win even with those supposed bad calls.

Pretty clear you are just a jealous hater. I love hypocrites like you who act like they wouldnt defend their team if the situations were reversed.

FourThreeMafia
08-08-2010, 06:43 PM
Again most of you are too blinded by your biases to make anything reasonable out of all this.

For starters there were multiple blown calls against the Seahawks in Superbowl XL. People denying this are just deluding themselves.
People trying to change the subject by bringing up irrelevant facts to the officiating like
"Tell me what seattle did to win"
"Seattle played a sloppy game overall"
"Seattle didn't let WP run for 75 yards"

Are deluded as well. These points have no bearing towards a discussion about THE OFFICIATING of the game. So far I've only seen a couple of people actually try to justify the officiating.

Just because you dont understand doesnt mean they are "deluded".

They did have a bearing on the OUTCOME of the game though, and when arguing that the outcome would have been different, these most certainly do factor in, whether you agree or not.

The attempt to justify the bogus offensive pass interference call "I've seen it called for less" is flat out bunk. I've never seen a more flagrant abuse of the "rules" then calling back a TD because of something so insignificant as that.

Its bunk...why? Because you say so?

Fact is, it has been called for less. I admitted it was a tacky call and not a good one. Probably shouldnt have been called, but it was.

Others have posted a video of the alleged "holding" in dispute and it's just like I remember it, not a hold and a terrible call.

Yes, having your arm wrapped around a players neck and grasping the facemask is not holding at all.

If that isnt holding, nothing is. Sean Locklear was holding all freaking game, too. Bout time they called one of them.

mikegrimey
08-08-2010, 06:51 PM
Whether you think the holding was a terrible call or not is irrelevant as well. If you actually watched the video you'd realize that holding calls have been called for a lot less (and worse examples of holding sometimes never get called). Even if you don't think it was a good call, you have to admit it's something, in a refs eyes, could have gone either way....especially if Locklear had been warned about it previously in the game.

As for the PI call (which isn't even something Levy mentions in his "apology"), I've seen that called for much less as well, even against the Steelers. I'm not saying it was a great call...but I've seen WR's back into defenders in the endzone and the defending team gets a PI call, for doing nothing but being there.

And it certainly isn't irrelevant to point out that Seattle had plenty of opportunities to overcome those calls, yet didn't. Even if there were a couple of blown calls, they had at least 150 other opportunities to make something happen that game, and couldn't. Their WR's (Stevens especially) couldn't catch a cold, their PK couldn't make FG's, Holmgren STANK at clock management at the end of both halves and plenty of other mistakes that, had they not happened, could have erased any iffy calls.

Sure it's easy to look back on it and blame the refs for the loss, but the simple fact of the matter is...even if every call against Seattle (of which there were 7) was a horrible call...they still had at least 150 other plays they could have made, but didn't. It's just a bunch of whiny nonsense.


Steelcity mom,

First, thanks for the response without resorting to childish namecalling etc.

You're right that the "holding" on Clark Haggans is something that a referee, in the heat of play, could easily see as holding. I won't dispute that. What I will dispute is making that call in the 4th quarter of the superbowl. I've never seen a worse holding call in such a big game at such an inappropriate time. Haggans really wasn't held, but the referee at a certain angle could easily think that he had been. Really he put on an ok swim move and beat his guy, who tried to turn with him and failed, and Haggans almost got to Hasselbeck.
Which is why I laugh at people who suggest that the botched calls were on purpose, or part of a fix. I see bad calls, but there's no evidence to show those bad calls were part of a sinister plan to give Jerome Bettis a championship.

What you mention about the OPI call in the early part of the game reassures my belief that it was an atroscious call. I can't think of the Steelers getting an OPI on a touchdown in my recent memory, much less one that was so flagrantly lame. Honestly, Deion Branch gave Chris Hope a gay guy wave with his arm.

My point about the irrelevancy of mentioning Seattle's incompetence is that this should be a discussion about the officiating. How Seattle or Pittsburgh played isn't a part of the officiating. It's very easy for both sides to play revisionist (seattle fans saying "if we would have got that call we would have won" pittsburgh fans saying "well yous ucked on this play so you didn't deserve to win") but it just distracts from the main point. That the head official believes he botched a couple of pivotal calls. I've already mentioned how useless it is to revise history or get into "what ifs" because the game of football is so volataile nobody could say what would have happened if...ever. I think a lot of Steelers fans are cowardly backing away from the facts in here and hiding their own insecurity over the victory by falling back on "seattle sucked anyway". I've already talked about the game and how poor it was on both sides. I believe Seattle played better than us overall but just got burnt on huge jackpot plays. Kinda like how a lot of Steelers fans feel we outplayed the Cowboys in SB XXX but didn't get any "splash" plays.

I'm with you on seattle revisionists and trying to claim that championship is really theirs. As I said, MAYBE they could have pulled off the win had they got a couple of those calls in their favor but there's nobody who knows for sure. Yet I also find Steelers fans who won't even admit the porous officiating are just as lame as the Seahawk ones.

mikegrimey
08-08-2010, 06:57 PM
Mikegrimey you do raise some valid points. But the NFL should have admitted at the time the 2006 Superbowl had those bad calls. Instead they put out a statement after the game the game was well officiated. What a laugh! The very opposite of the truth. Finally 4 1/2 years later the ref admits that it was not well officiated.

When the Jacksonville QB Gerard ran up the middle for 30 yards and cost the Steelers the playoff game I recall the NFL put out an apology after the game for an uncalled holding call on that play. Why wasn't such an apology issued to Seattle fans after the 2006 Super Bowl? It should have been.

Now as for the Ravens I suppose that is off topic so I won't pursue it further here. Except to say I believe the NFL does have their favorite teams and players and the calls by the refs reflect that fact. I've seen the Ravens called for roughing the passer with Tom Brady when it wasn't even close to roughing. The Ravens are not a favored team in the NFL, they don't get the benefit of those type of bogus calls. And the penalties are not all justified either.

You're right Bobby Jr. That the league is defending the game as "Well defended" is pure bunk. Laughable insecurity by a group that doesn't want to make their scrutiny public. SB 40 was easily one of the worst officiated SB's I've seen.

I don't know of any apology to the STeelers for the Jags game, but I do know Larry Foote was a little heated about it, and a lot of Steelers fans hypocritically tried to take the league to task for an honest mistake when they know if the situation was reversed they'd be offical apologists like they are right now with the SB 40 crew.

You're right about the bogus roughing call on Brady last year. That was one of the worst instances of officiating pandering to a star I've ever seen. There was no flag in sight until Brady turned around and lobbied for one. Brady was a lot different last year after his injury. He used to stand in the pocket and take the hit like a man. Last year he whined a lot. Overall I don't see the Ravens getting too many bogus calls, at least more than other teams. They're an agressive team and end up making some borderline hits at times which costs them. Sometimes it comes with the mentality.

supa_fly_steeler
08-08-2010, 06:59 PM
mikegrimey, your an idiot.

supa_fly_steeler
08-08-2010, 07:00 PM
the steelers would of won 30-14 if limas sweed would of caught that pass.

Riddle_Of_Steel
08-08-2010, 07:05 PM
Reposted for MIKE GRIMEY's benefit:

There are those in Seattle, and around the country, who will go to their graves believing that the Pittsburgh Steelers' 21-10 victory over the Seattle Seahawks in Super Bowl XL had an odor to it from the start.

There is a term for this: SORE LOSERS.

From Ben Roethlisberger's(notes) one-yard rushing touchdown that was inconclusive even on review, to the phantom holding call that took a potential 98-yard touchdown drive away from Seattle, the calls made by the officiating crew in that February, 2006 game created a tapestry of suspicion that persists to this day.

And despite what Mr. Levy has to say while standing around the Gatorade cooler with his newfound friends in Seattle, the NFL officiating committee reviewed the whole game, in detail, and found no discrepancies worth noting as far as the calls are concerned:

****"The game was properly officiated, including, as in most NFL games, some tight plays that produced disagreement about the calls made by the officials," NFL spokesman Greg Aiello said in a statement after reviewing the calls in SB XL.

They did, however, issue an immediate apology for the blown call against Polamalu in the Colt's game three weeks prior....the NFL Officiaiting Committee has this strange habit of owning up to its own mistakes, often very quickly after the bad calls were made (as soon as the NFL Officiating Commitee has a chance to sit down, watch the replays and analyze the calls made on the field). They call this ACCOUNTABILITY.

Levy is talking about 4th quarter calls he "blew", so you toss the Big Ben one yard TD run out right now, since that was in the 1st quarter.

But lets go ahead and address these "Blown calls", so we can lay this controversy to rest once again. It is particularly tell-tale, that Mr. Levy seems relucatant to specify WHERE, WHEN, and HOW he made these supposed blown calls. He doesn't even say which calls specifically....so we will just go over ALL of them and lay this issue to rest, once and for all.

You ready, SEAHAWKS fans? Class is now IN SESSION!!!



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


1) The Big Ben TD: All you need to do is watch this video, and pause it at approximately 00:10 into the video. You will clearly see that the tip of the football broke the plane of the endzone (which is all that is needed) before Ben was pushed back by a Seattle defender (the football is not entirely visible in the 00:10 frame, but what is key, is looking at how he was holding the ball, and where his arms were when he crossed the goaline initially). What made it look shady, was how after being tackled, Big Ben tried to slide the ball over the goalline, but this was not even necessary since he scored legitimately during the play.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N93VaUytd4w

2) The Darrell Jackson Interference Call: As per the NFL Official Rules:

Offensive Pass Interference

A penalty in which an offensive player significantly hinders a defensive player's opportunity to intercept a forward pass or pushes off of the defender to give himself an advantage.

Now, watch the video of the play. Darrell Jackson not only touched Chris Hope (#28), but pushed off of him as a springboard to change his own direction to move to the left to make the catch, and thus shoving the defender right out of the play. THAT, is OFFENSIVE PASS INTERFERENCE, my friends. Darrell Jackson committed the offense in a manner that was almost VERBATIM with what the rules state he CANNOT do as a receiver.

What is most comical, is that some teary-eyed Seahwaks fan posted this video on YouTube, thinking it would strengthen his position, by comparing it to what he/she thinks is an example of Hines Ward committing a larger interferrence penalty. However, somebody should have told this clownshoe to review the Official NFL Rules. Had he done so, he would have known that offensive pass interference only gets called if the ball is still behind the line of scrimmage, and once it is actually thrown, that the pass was intended for that particular receiver. Since on that particular play, the ball was thrown to Heath Miller, AND Ward hit that guy AFTER the ball was thrown, Ward was executing a BLOCK, not offensive pass interference.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vURI_Cz-p6s&feature=related

3) The Willie Parker 75 yard TD Run: Well, to be fair, it wasn't being debated at all, but I thought I should include it here for y'all to watch, just for the sake of bringing up some more painful memories for those who are whineristically inclined. I particularly loved the way Alan Faneca straight up smoked Lofa Tatupu on that play when he pulled around the right side.....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DcIcKdf2Exs


4) The Matt Hasselbeck Tripping Penalty: This is the only one that is kinda ticky-tacky. As per the official NFL rules:

A player trips another player with the lower leg. Note that tripping the runner is legal under NCAA and NFHS rules.

Since this was not an NCAA or NFHS game, the penalty applies. To me, it looked like Hasselbeck dove into that one head first, not feet first. But....it did look like he was trying to chop-block Ike Taylor instead of making the tackle, since he realized that an ordinary tackle would have been impossible as Ike was also being escorted down the field by an accompanying blocker (was Bryant McFaden, if I recall correctly). I think that is what the refs were looking at, moreso than what part of his body he decided to throw in front of the returner.

Like I said, is kind of a ticky-tacky call, and to be fair, Seahawks fans, Big Ben got called for the EXACT same penalty, same circumstances, a few weeks prior (in Chicago, if I recall correctly), and the reaction the officials got from the Steelers' fanbase, was the exact same as yours as well. And the same reaction from the Vikings' fanbase this last year, when Favre got called for the same infraction.

Like it or not, it IS in the rules, and although a ticky-tacky call, there is no way you can say no penalty was committed. In every case, it is a matter of a QB who just threw a costly pick, trying to desperately throw his body in the way of the defender/returner in a fashion that gives him the best chance of making the tackle. Unfortunately, the NFL demands that tackles be performed in a specific fashion, and NOT just throwing your body on the ground in front of a defender carrying the ball-- that is considered tripping.

Kinda lame, but that rule was not just put into place right before SB XL to screw the Seahawks over.

5) Sean Locklear Holding Penalty: I cannot even believe that anyone is trying to argue against this holding call. Watch the replay video yourself-- he starts off by committing what should have been called as a facemask for choking, then follows it up by grabbing a handful of Clark Haggan's jersey to keep him from making the tackle-- that my turquoise and pea-green clad friends, is called HOLDING, and blatantly so:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lcTm9PPdT3I&feature=player_embedded

I don't need to offer any further arguments; the video says it all. And Levy is trying to say he messed up this call? On what part? Could it be that the fact he is hanging out with the Seahawks and he is "chumming up" with them at camp be the reason that he suddenly had this epiphany that the NFL Officiating Committee already addressed and debunked?


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Sorry, but those are the facts, painful as they may be, especially if you have been riding the "Steelers bought SB XL WAHHHHHmbulance" for the last four years.

A lot of the debate over these "bad calls" stems from the facts that most Seattle Seahawks fans don't necessarily watch football that much (except when they go to the SB), and are not very familiar with the NFL's rules. No knock on Seahawks fans-- they love their team as much as the next die-hard sports fans, but Steelers fans have been watching football intently for several decades now and are well-versed in many of these technicalities (and have probably been hit many times over the years with these same penalties that you are now complaining about).

If you want to know why Seattle lost SB XL, here is a much better list of reasons:

** Seahawks' SS Michael Boulware whiffed on a clean shot at running back Willie Parker on his record-setting 75-yard TD run.

** Kicker Josh Brown missed 50- and 54-yard field goal attempts (accuracy rather than distance was the issue in both instances).

** Jerame Stevens dropped at least 3 critical passes that would have changed the game significantly.

** The Seahawks' vaunted offensive line lost the battle of the trenches.

** Seahawks' P Tom Rouen (and cornerback Jordan Babineaux) couldn't pin the Steelers deep even once.

** Fullback Mack Strong (on a third-and-3 reception) and wide receiver Darrell Jackson (trying to get his feet in bounds) were too often more nonchalant than possessed in their efforts.

** In case you wanted to argue Jackson's TD should not have been called out-of-bounds at the 1 YL, I can smash that one dead right now:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nRNmA40v6cM

Clearly, you can see his right foot steps out of bounds before he knocked the pylon over with his left leg.

** The Seahawks' defense got suckered on a 43-yard gadget for a TD.

** Mike Holmgren did not bring a team to SB XL that was as well-trained in responding to adversity as the Pittsburgh Steelers.

mikegrimey
08-08-2010, 07:07 PM
mikegrimey, your an idiot.

Here's a little advice about ad hominem arguments (other than not to use them) at least have a basis for using them.

If I'm an idiot, what does that make you?

Go on keep waving the white flag. Whenever you have to bring personal insults you're admitting defeat in an argument anyway.

mikegrimey
08-08-2010, 07:10 PM
Reposted for MIKE GRIMEY's benefit:

There are those in Seattle, and around the country, who will go to their graves believing that the Pittsburgh Steelers' 21-10 victory over the Seattle Seahawks in Super Bowl XL had an odor to it from the start.

There is a term for this: SORE LOSERS.

From Ben Roethlisberger's(notes) one-yard rushing touchdown that was inconclusive even on review, to the phantom holding call that took a potential 98-yard touchdown drive away from Seattle, the calls made by the officiating crew in that February, 2006 game created a tapestry of suspicion that persists to this day.

And despite what Mr. Levy has to say while standing around the Gatorade cooler with his newfound friends in Seattle, the NFL officiating committee reviewed the whole game, in detail, and found no discrepancies worth noting as far as the calls are concerned:

****"The game was properly officiated, including, as in most NFL games, some tight plays that produced disagreement about the calls made by the officials," NFL spokesman Greg Aiello said in a statement after reviewing the calls in SB XL.

They did, however, issue an immediate apology for the blown call against Polamalu in the Colt's game three weeks prior....the NFL Officiaiting Committee has this strange habit of owning up to its own mistakes, often very quickly after the bad calls were made (as soon as the NFL Officiating Commitee has a chance to sit down, watch the replays and analyze the calls made on the field). They call this ACCOUNTABILITY.

Levy is talking about 4th quarter calls he "blew", so you toss the Big Ben one yard TD run out right now, since that was in the 1st quarter.

But lets go ahead and address these "Blown calls", so we can lay this controversy to rest once again. It is particularly tell-tale, that Mr. Levy seems relucatant to specify WHERE, WHEN, and HOW he made these supposed blown calls. He doesn't even say which calls specifically....so we will just go over ALL of them and lay this issue to rest, once and for all.

You ready, SEAHAWKS fans? Class is now IN SESSION!!!



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


1) The Big Ben TD: All you need to do is watch this video, and pause it at approximately 00:10 into the video. You will clearly see that the tip of the football broke the plane of the endzone (which is all that is needed) before Ben was pushed back by a Seattle defender (the football is not entirely visible in the 00:10 frame, but what is key, is looking at how he was holding the ball, and where his arms were when he crossed the goaline initially). What made it look shady, was how after being tackled, Big Ben tried to slide the ball over the goalline, but this was not even necessary since he scored legitimately during the play.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N93VaUytd4w

2) The Darrell Jackson Interference Call: As per the NFL Official Rules:

Offensive Pass Interference

A penalty in which an offensive player significantly hinders a defensive player's opportunity to intercept a forward pass or pushes off of the defender to give himself an advantage.

Now, watch the video of the play. Darrell Jackson not only touched Chris Hope (#28), but pushed off of him as a springboard to change his own direction to move to the left to make the catch, and thus shoving the defender right out of the play. THAT, is OFFENSIVE PASS INTERFERENCE, my friends. Darrell Jackson committed the offense in a manner that was almost VERBATIM with what the rules state he CANNOT do as a receiver.

What is most comical, is that some teary-eyed Seahwaks fan posted this video on YouTube, thinking it would strengthen his position, by comparing it to what he/she thinks is an example of Hines Ward committing a larger interferrence penalty. However, somebody should have told this clownshoe to review the Official NFL Rules. Had he done so, he would have known that offensive pass interference only gets called if the ball is still behind the line of scrimmage, and once it is actually thrown, that the pass was intended for that particular receiver. Since on that particular play, the ball was thrown to Heath Miller, AND Ward hit that guy AFTER the ball was thrown, Ward was executing a BLOCK, not offensive pass interference.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vURI_Cz-p6s&feature=related

3) The Willie Parker 75 yard TD Run: Well, to be fair, it wasn't being debated at all, but I thought I should include it here for y'all to watch, just for the sake of bringing up some more painful memories for those who are whineristically inclined. I particularly loved the way Alan Faneca straight up smoked Lofa Tatupu on that play when he pulled around the right side.....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DcIcKdf2Exs


4) The Matt Hasselbeck Tripping Penalty: This is the only one that is kinda ticky-tacky. As per the official NFL rules:

A player trips another player with the lower leg. Note that tripping the runner is legal under NCAA and NFHS rules.

Since this was not an NCAA or NFHS game, the penalty applies. To me, it looked like Hasselbeck dove into that one head first, not feet first. But....it did look like he was trying to chop-block Ike Taylor instead of making the tackle, since he realized that an ordinary tackle would have been impossible as Ike was also being escorted down the field by an accompanying blocker (was Bryant McFaden, if I recall correctly). I think that is what the refs were looking at, moreso than what part of his body he decided to throw in front of the returner.

Like I said, is kind of a ticky-tacky call, and to be fair, Seahawks fans, Big Ben got called for the EXACT same penalty, same circumstances, a few weeks prior (in Chicago, if I recall correctly), and the reaction the officials got from the Steelers' fanbase, was the exact same as yours as well. And the same reaction from the Vikings' fanbase this last year, when Favre got called for the same infraction.

Like it or not, it IS in the rules, and although a ticky-tacky call, there is no way you can say no penalty was committed. In every case, it is a matter of a QB who just threw a costly pick, trying to desperately throw his body in the way of the defender/returner in a fashion that gives him the best chance of making the tackle. Unfortunately, the NFL demands that tackles be performed in a specific fashion, and NOT just throwing your body on the ground in front of a defender carrying the ball-- that is considered tripping.

Kinda lame, but that rule was not just put into place right before SB XL to screw the Seahawks over.

5) Sean Locklear Holding Penalty: I cannot even believe that anyone is trying to argue against this holding call. Watch the replay video yourself-- he starts off by committing what should have been called as a facemask for choking, then follows it up by grabbing a handful of Clark Haggan's jersey to keep him from making the tackle-- that my turquoise and pea-green clad friends, is called HOLDING, and blatantly so:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lcTm9PPdT3I&feature=player_embedded

I don't need to offer any further arguments; the video says it all. And Levy is trying to say he messed up this call? On what part? Could it be that the fact he is hanging out with the Seahawks and he is "chumming up" with them at camp be the reason that he suddenly had this epiphany that the NFL Officiating Committee already addressed and debunked?


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Sorry, but those are the facts, painful as they may be, especially if you have been riding the "Steelers bought SB XL WAHHHHHmbulance" for the last four years.

A lot of the debate over these "bad calls" stems from the facts that most Seattle Seahawks fans don't necessarily watch football that much (except when they go to the SB), and are not very familiar with the NFL's rules. No knock on Seahawks fans-- they love their team as much as the next die-hard sports fans, but Steelers fans have been watching football intently for several decades now and are well-versed in many of these technicalities (and have probably been hit many times over the years with these same penalties that you are now complaining about).

If you want to know why Seattle lost SB XL, here is a much better list of reasons:

** Seahawks' SS Michael Boulware whiffed on a clean shot at running back Willie Parker on his record-setting 75-yard TD run.

** Kicker Josh Brown missed 50- and 54-yard field goal attempts (accuracy rather than distance was the issue in both instances).

** Jerame Stevens dropped at least 3 critical passes that would have changed the game significantly.

** The Seahawks' vaunted offensive line lost the battle of the trenches.

** Seahawks' P Tom Rouen (and cornerback Jordan Babineaux) couldn't pin the Steelers deep even once.

** Fullback Mack Strong (on a third-and-3 reception) and wide receiver Darrell Jackson (trying to get his feet in bounds) were too often more nonchalant than possessed in their efforts.

** In case you wanted to argue Jackson's TD should not have been called out-of-bounds at the 1 YL, I can smash that one dead right now:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nRNmA40v6cM

Clearly, you can see his right foot steps out of bounds before he knocked the pylon over with his left leg.

** The Seahawks' defense got suckered on a 43-yard gadget for a TD.

** Mike Holmgren did not bring a team to SB XL that was as well-trained in responding to adversity as the Pittsburgh Steelers.

This isn't benefitting me at all except to reinforce my previous suspicions: that most steelers and seahawk fans are clueless homers on this subject.

I debunked the idea that there was a conspiracy for the Steelers to win SB XL, it's just not feasible that such a farce could be successfully pulled off in this day and age.

I also debunked the logic behind insecure Steelers fans digressing from the topic at hand, the poor officiating, by showing instances where the Seahawks played bad or failed to capitalize.

We're pretty much in agreement, that most of the bad calls were bad calls honestly. I can see how the officials would make those mistakes, but that doesn't mean they weren't bad calls, and didn't effect the game.

Riddle_Of_Steel
08-08-2010, 07:17 PM
Sorry She-hawks fans.

If you came here looking for sympathy or agreement on your conspiracy theories, you won't find it here.

You are better off going out and finding some other third-party NFL forum, filled with other fair-weather fans who don't know the rules and might sympathize with you.

Mr. Levy's revisionist history is nothing short of lame and pointless. The NFL Officiating Committee already reviewed all the calls in SB XL, ad nauseum, and as per the official statement they released afterwards, concurred with the calls made on the field. In short, the NFL already debunked all the nonsense and complaints the Seahawks fans have been bringing up for the last 5 years.

Sorry, but as long as Mr. Levy is chumming up with your guys at camp and hanging around the Gatorade cooler with your guys, I am sure he is not averse to telling some tall tales to cater to the guys he is spending his time in the company of.

If the Shehawks were such an indomitable team, why have they not returned to the SB since then?

Why did they go swirling down the toilet back to obscurity and 4-12 records after SB XL?

Why is it, that when the Shehawks had their chance in 2007, against a rookie head coach, to prove which team was actually the better one, they got clobered 21-0 (a much more deserving score than the 21-10 in SB XL)?

mikegrimey
08-08-2010, 07:21 PM
Sorry She-hawks fans.

If you came here looking for sympathy or agreement on your conspiracy theories, you won't find it here.

You are better off going out and finding some other third-party NFL forum, filled with other fair-weather fans who don't know the rules and might sympathize with you.

Mr. Levy's revisionist history is nothing short of lame and pointless. The NFL Officiating Committee already reviewed all the calls in SB XL, ad nauseum, and as per the official statement they released afterwards, concurred with the calls made on the field. In short, the NFL already debunked all the nonsense and complaints the Seahawks fans have been bringing up for the last 5 years.

Sorry, but as long as Mr. Levy is chumming up with your guys at camp and hanging around the Gatorade cooler with your guys, I am sure he is not averse to telling some tall tales to cater to the guys he is spending his time in the company of.

If the Shehawks were such an indomitable team, why have they not returned to the SB since then?

Why did they go swirling down the toilet back to obscurity and 4-12 records after SB XL?

Why is it, that when the Shehawks had their chance in 2007, against a rookie head coach, to prove which team was actually the better one, they got clobered 21-0 (a much more deserving score than the 21-10 in SB XL)?

I hope you see the irony in your accusations that Bill Levy is "in on it" around the water coolers with the Seahawks players and media.

You're being no different than Seahawks fan accusing the NFL of fixing the SB.
As far as I can see you still haven't actually addressed the quality of the officiating without trying to justify it by going off topic (seahawks missed this play, let that play happen etc.) that's weak arguing.

Riddle_Of_Steel
08-08-2010, 07:25 PM
This isn't benefitting me at all except to reinforce my previous suspicions: that most steelers and seahawk fans are clueless homers on this subject.

Yet you failed to address even a single one of my points. And you just made fun of SUPA_STEELER (or whatever his name is) for making an ad hominem attack-- and then in the same breath just committed the same offense against me?

Why don't you try addressing some of my points, and then tell me SPECIFICALLY, where I was being a "clueless homer"? That might actually get you some respect....

I debunked the idea that there was a conspiracy for the Steelers to win SB XL, it's just not feasible that such a farce could be successfully pulled off in this day and age.

I must have missed that part of your previous non-arguments....

I also debunked the logic behind insecure Steelers fans digressing from the topic at hand, the poor officiating, by showing instances where the Seahawks played bad or failed to capitalize.

So.....are you saying those instances are not valid, when discussing the outcome of the game? Or are you just floundering and trying to stall for time, now that you have been cornered?

We're pretty much in agreement, that most of the bad calls were bad calls honestly.

I don't see any point in my post where I acknowlege ANY bad calls by the refs at all. What are you reading? Did you even read my post?

I can see how the officials would make those mistakes, but that doesn't mean they weren't bad calls, and didn't effect the game.

Please be specific. You seem to have this real nasty habit of using very non-specific pronouns to refer to anything that you don't care to elaborate on any further.....

FourThreeMafia
08-08-2010, 07:29 PM
mikegrimey is hilarious....he keeps saying he debunked all these points, yet he hasnt backed up anything he said with much more than his opinion. Good stuff.

Riddle_Of_Steel
08-08-2010, 07:30 PM
I hope you see the irony in your accusations that Bill Levy is "in on it" around the water coolers with the Seahawks players and media.

Telling a few exaggerations and tall tales around the Gatorade cooler about matters that were already settled at the official level years ago isn't very ironic, nor suggestive of anything.

You're being no different than Seahawks fan accusing the NFL of fixing the SB.

Again, telling some tall tales around the Gatorade cooler about matters that were already settled at the official level years ago has nothing in common with a grand conspiracy to get a referee to fail to do his job in an official capacity during one of the most scrutinized games in the world. Apples and oranges.


As far as I can see you still haven't actually addressed the quality of the officiating without trying to justify it by going off topic (seahawks missed this play, let that play happen etc.) that's weak arguing.

Actually, I did, in detail. You failure to address any of my points or the involved proofs does not mean I went off topic.

This debate thingy is kinda difficult for you, isn't it?

Riddle_Of_Steel
08-08-2010, 07:32 PM
mikegrimey is hilarious....he keeps saying he debunked all these points, yet he hasnt backed up anything he said with much more than his opinion. Good stuff.

That's the problem-- he hasn't really said ANYTHING significant as of yet, except vaguaries, personal insults, and very-nonspecific statements that require neither proof nor a point to back them up because they are intellectually devoid of any content.

mikegrimey
08-08-2010, 07:40 PM
Yet you failed to address even a single one of my points. And you just made fun of SUPA_STEELER (or whatever his name is) for making an ad hominem attack-- and then in the same breath just committed the same offense against me?

Why don't you try addressing some of my points, and then tell me SPECIFICALLY, where I was being a "clueless homer"? That might actually get you some respect....



I must have missed that part of your previous non-arguments....



So.....are you saying those instances are not valid, when discussing the outcome of the game? Or are you just floundering and trying to stall for time, now that you have been cornered?



I don't see any point in my post where I acknowlege ANY bad calls by the refs at all. What are you reading? Did you even read my post?



Please be specific. You seem to have this real nasty habit of using very non-specific pronouns to refer to anything that you don't care to elaborate on any further.....

You can read my previous points to see all of your points "addressed".

I never made an ad hominem attack against you. I merely find your arguments evasive and off topic, nothing against you, but you're accountable for what you say.

I've repeated many times that this topic is about the officiating. Too many people are cowardly avoiding criticizing it by bringing up these lame instances fo where the seahawks made mistakes.

As for "being cornered" don't flatter yourself friend.

You're whole point by point was little more than trying to justify that despite bad calls "seattle would have lost anyway" which I've already proved is a false way of approaching the topic.

Here is a quick recap of the several bad calls that happened in SB 40, you'll notice I'll not make mentions of WP 75 yard ru n or Randle El's TD pass because they have nothing to do with the officiating.

The OPI call early in the game that negated a seattle touchdown. A horrible call of OPI if there ever was one. I already mentioned how Branch merely gave Chris Hope a crippled gay man tap, hardly warranting a penalty. I have never seen an instance of OPI that badly called, before or after SB 40. It looked to be an honest mistake from an anxious ref, but a mistake nonetheless.
*edit* to point out that the OPI was probably the most pansy-assed penalties given in the SB that year. This has nothing to do with whether or not it was a penalty but it's the Superbowl Damnit! Horse shite like that should never be called.

On to the "two blown calls" Leavy freely admits he made in the 4th quarter.

The bogus hold. I've seen youtube's posted up of the play by several people here and they've just reasserted my view that there was no holding on the play. Haggans is trying to put a move on his tackle, who trys to follow him. It looks like he might be hooking him, but as Haggans blows past him with really no resistance, it's clear that he wasn't. It's all about angling. I can see how an official would think that was holding from a certain angle or distance. However, that does not mean that was a good call. A bad call that had a big effect on the game.

The other call Leavy is referencing has to be the bogus low block on Hasselbeck when he made a tackle after an INT. Not too many people even dispute that.

See, how 3 bad calls can effect a game.

Yet you don't see how babbling about WP td run isn't relevant, just insecurity. Seahawks fans who try to assert there was a fix are clueless, just like Steelers fans who try to justify the bad officiating. Wether or not Seattle would have won the game is irrelevant, it's about the referees making the right calls or not. Too many of you miss that point and rush to criticize others who are just accepting reality.

mikegrimey
08-08-2010, 07:46 PM
That's the problem-- he hasn't really said ANYTHING significant as of yet, except vaguaries, personal insults, and very-nonspecific statements that require neither proof nor a point to back them up because they are intellectually devoid of any content.


This is the internet equivalent of sticking your tongue out and saying "nyah nyah".

Just as I suspected. Merely gloating and denail. It's not that best way to argue but you at least have a niche at it. Nothing I've addressed in my initial posts to the subject is vague. And most of you still don't get the point even after repeated posts.

You just get real worked up, call your opposition names, and indulge in conspiracy theories just like the people you criticize.

Accusing Bill Leavy of "revising history" shows a lack of understand of the language as well as insecurity. Leavy has nothing to gain or lose by admitting he made mistakes, it's a matter of conscience with him. Plus, any objective viewer, steelers fan or no, can admit that there were several bad calls in SB 40 and that it was overall one of the worst officiated SBs. It seems a lot of people can't leave their ties behind, be they Seahawk fans who indulge in lunacy like accusing the nfl of fixing the game, or Steelers fans who miss the point entirely and fluff up their argument with irrelevant points about splash plays.

mikegrimey
08-08-2010, 08:07 PM
There are those in Seattle, and around the country, who will go to their graves believing that the Pittsburgh Steelers' 21-10 victory over the Seattle Seahawks in Super Bowl XL had an odor to it from the start.


The whole point of this isn't even what I'm arguing. I've debunked the whole idea that the NFL could have pulled off that kind of scam in this age of technology and denounce anyone who trys to say they did.



And despite what Mr. Levy has to say while standing around the Gatorade cooler with his newfound friends in Seattle, the NFL officiating committee reviewed the whole game, in detail, and found no discrepancies worth noting as far as the calls are concerned:

Notice how you insinuate that Levy is "friends" with people in Seattle. Quite unfounded, right off the bat you are dabbling into the same kind of conspiracy nonsense that you're trying to debunk. The point about the NFL officiating committee is negligible. What else would you expect them to say other than the game was well officiated?


They did, however, issue an immediate apology for the blown call against Polamalu in the Colt's game three weeks prior....the NFL Officiaiting Committee has this strange habit of owning up to its own mistakes, often very quickly after the bad calls were made (as soon as the NFL Officiating Commitee has a chance to sit down, watch the replays and analyze the calls made on the field). They call this ACCOUNTABILITY.

Your example over the Polamalu INT isn't legitimate because the Steelers actually won that game. These are very different instances. Who knows if the NFL would have admitted it's mistake had the Colts come back to win. Is it possible they would have? Maybe. Now, do you think if Seattle actually won the SB would the officiating would have changed their tune? Maybe as well.







1) The Big Ben TD: All you need to do is watch this video, and pause it at approximately 00:10 into the video. You will clearly see that the tip of the football broke the plane of the endzone (which is all that is needed) before Ben was pushed back by a Seattle defender (the football is not entirely visible in the 00:10 frame, but what is key, is looking at how he was holding the ball, and where his arms were when he crossed the goaline initially). What made it look shady, was how after being tackled, Big Ben tried to slide the ball over the goalline, but this was not even necessary since he scored legitimately during the play.

Why do you try and describe the play after you claimed you weren't even going to?


2) The Darrell Jackson Interference Call: As per the NFL Official Rules:

Offensive Pass Interference

A penalty in which an offensive player significantly hinders a defensive player's opportunity to intercept a forward pass or pushes off of the defender to give himself an advantage.

Now, watch the video of the play. Darrell Jackson not only touched Chris Hope (#28), but pushed off of him as a springboard to change his own direction to move to the left to make the catch, and thus shoving the defender right out of the play. THAT, is OFFENSIVE PASS INTERFERENCE, my friends. Darrell Jackson committed the offense in a manner that was almost VERBATIM with what the rules state he CANNOT do as a receiver.

What is most comical, is that some teary-eyed Seahwaks fan posted this video on YouTube, thinking it would strengthen his position, by comparing it to what he/she thinks is an example of Hines Ward committing a larger interferrence penalty. However, somebody should have told this clownshoe to review the Official NFL Rules. Had he done so, he would have known that offensive pass interference only gets called if the ball is still behind the line of scrimmage, and once it is actually thrown, that the pass was intended for that particular receiver. Since on that particular play, the ball was thrown to Heath Miller, AND Ward hit that guy AFTER the ball was thrown, Ward was executing a BLOCK, not offensive pass interference.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vURI_...eature=related

Like many people who try to justify this call they beat the rulebook verbatim. What they don't mention is that the so called "push off" was negligible. At best that is a ticky tack call---how anyone can watch it in real time and think that it effected the play is beyond me. Jackson (who I had previously thought was deion branch my bad) sticks his arm out thats for sure, but to say that he pushed off is arguable at best. Is there even a push? No.
Funny that most Steelers fans would hate to see their own logic applied to this play. Chris Hope could have easily beat down that pansy ass tap and got in front of the pass. That's not what we're talking about though. Suppossedly this is a push off, when it isn't at all.



5) Sean Locklear Holding Penalty: I cannot even believe that anyone is trying to argue against this holding call. Watch the replay video yourself-- he starts off by committing what should have been called as a facemask for choking, then follows it up by grabbing a handful of Clark Haggan's jersey to keep him from making the tackle-- that my turquoise and pea-green clad friends, is called HOLDING, and blatantly so:

This logic supposses that Locklear actually holds Haggans when he doesn't. You even throw in a "facemask" penalty to spice it up. This one really isn't debatable. There wasn't a real hold.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lcTm9...layer_embedded

I don't need to offer any further arguments; the video says it all. And Levy is trying to say he messed up this call? On what part? Could it be that the fact he is hanging out with the Seahawks and he is "chumming up" with them at camp be the reason that he suddenly had this epiphany that the NFL Officiating Committee already addressed and debunked?

There you go again with your conspiracy nutting. Also making up myths that the nfl officiating comitte "debunked" this. They simply stayed mum on it.

The rest is just fluff.

Riddle_Of_Steel
08-08-2010, 08:08 PM
I never made an ad hominem attack against you.

I consider being called "clueless" to be an ad hominem attack.

I've repeated many times that this topic is about the officiating. Too many people are cowardly avoiding criticizing it by bringing up these lame instances fo where the seahawks made mistakes.

NOW who is being evasive? I placed a SMALL list at the bottom of my original post that addressed mistakes made by the Seahawks-- the rest of the 90% of my post was very specifically tuned to focusing on the officiating-- yet those are the parts that you have conveniently decided to ignore....

As for "being cornered" don't flatter yourself friend.

Merely telling it like it is-- you fail to address any specific points anyone makes, and then you accuse others of being evasive because you personally chose not to read or address any of their points or arguments. Afterwards, you resort to using very non-specific, vague statements riddled with even more non-specific pronouns to further muddy the debate.

Ergo, you got cornered and had to play the "clueless card" and the "vague pronoun" card to evade having to actually adress anybody's points made.

You're whole point by point was little more than trying to justify that despite bad calls "seattle would have lost anyway" which I've already proved is a false way of approaching the topic.

You need to not cut your crack with so much baking soda, friendo. I specifically addressed the most notable instances of supposedly bad officiating from that game, with video and rules excerpts, which was the point of this thread....

Here is a quick recap of the several bad calls that happened in SB 40, you'll notice I'll not make mentions of WP 75 yard run or Randle El's TD pass because they have nothing to do with the officiating.

This should be interesting....

The OPI call early in the game that negated a seattle touchdown. A horrible call of OPI if there ever was one. I already mentioned how Branch merely gave Chris Hope a crippled gay man tap, hardly warranting a penalty. I have never seen an instance of OPI that badly called, before or after SB 40. It looked to be an honest mistake from an anxious ref, but a mistake nonetheless.

Nope. First off, get your facts straight-- that was Darrell Jackson. Deion Branch did not even play for Seattle back then-- he was still on the Patriots.

Secondly-- if you would have read my original post, you would see I already debunked this claim with excerpts from the NFL Official Rulebook, as well as video proof of what I was saying.

You FAILED.

On to the "two blown calls" Leavy freely admits he made in the 4th quarter.

But that the NFL Officiating Committee already spoke on and debunked.....

The bogus hold. I've seen youtube's posted up of the play by several people here and they've just reasserted my view that there was no holding on the play.

Then you need to review the official NFL rules regarding holding, and what constitutes a hold. If you aren't sure, again-- I clearly posted the Official NFL rule regarding that matter, and clearly, it was a hold.

Haggans is trying to put a move on his tackle, who trys to follow him. It looks like he might be hooking him, but as Haggans blows past him with really no resistance, it's clear that he wasn't.

First off, the defenders is SUPPOED to be "trying to put a move on the tackle"-- he gets paid a large sum of money to do just that....

It's all about angling. I can see how an official would think that was holding from a certain angle or distance. However, that does not mean that was a good call. A bad call that had a big effect on the game.

I don't know what video you are watching, but in the one posted above, clearly, the offensive tackle starts out his block by jabbing Haggans in the throat (which I think actually is allowed), and when that doesn't work, he grabs a handful of his jersey and pretty much tackles him. THAT is holding....

The other call Leavy is referencing has to be the bogus low block on Hasselbeck when he made a tackle after an INT. Not too many people even dispute that.

That is because they command an understanding of the NFL's rules that is as inept as yours. I clearly explained this penalty in detail as well-- you must have missed that part too when you were so busy being "evasive"....

See, how 3 bad calls can effect a game.

You did not demonstrate or even attempt to explain how you think those calls afected the game at all-- you only gave your opinion based explanation of a few calls that you claim (and provide no accompanying proof) were bad calls.

Yet you don't see how babbling about WP td run isn't relevant, just insecurity.

No, it was funny. Once again, if you had actually read my post, instead of evading it-- you would see that I also clearly acknowlege in my post that WP's 75 yd TD run had nothing to do with the referees, I cited it for the hoot we Steelers fans get out of seeing the other team get burned on a high-scholl level play.

Seahawks fans who try to assert there was a fix are clueless, just like Steelers fans who try to justify the bad officiating.

Again, maybe if you provided something that slightly resembles proof or evidence, you might get some respect. Until you do that, your attacks are ad hominem-- and nothing more. All you have done is insult the Steeler fans who provided reseaonable explanations, proof, videos, and rules excerpts, while simlutaneously addressing none of the very valid points made.

In short, you are not a very good debater, and you are quite clearly in over your head on this one.

Wether or not Seattle would have won the game is irrelevant, it's about the referees making the right calls or not.

That had to be one of the dumbest things I have ever heard. THis whole debate was started because some feel that their team would have won, or that the final outcome of the game would have ben different, based on refereeing alone. Saying that one whether that team would have won or not is irelevant, just shows that you really have no idea what you are babbling about-- that is central to the whole debate.

mikegrimey
08-08-2010, 08:15 PM
I consider being called "clueless" to be an ad hominem attack.



NOW who is being evasive? I placed a SMALL list at the bottom of my original post that addressed mistakes made by the Seahawks-- the rest of the 90% of my post was very specifically tuned to focusing on the officiating-- yet those are the parts that you have conveniently decided to ignore....



Merely telling it like it is-- you fail to address any specific points anyone makes, and then you accuse others of being evasive because you personally chose not to read or address any of their points or arguments. Afterwards, you resort to using very non-specific, vague statements riddled with even more non-specific pronouns to further muddy the debate.

Ergo, you got cornered and had to play the "clueless card" and the "vague pronoun" card to evade having to actually adress anybody's points made.



You need to not cut your crack with so much baking soda, friendo. I specifically addressed the most notable instances of supposedly bad officiating from that game, with video and rules excerpts, which was the point of this thread....



This should be interesting....



Nope. First off, get your facts straight-- that was Darrell Jackson. Deion Branch did not even play for Seattle back then-- he was still on the Patriots.

Secondly-- if you would have read my original post, you would see I already debunked this claim with excerpts from the NFL Official Rulebook, as well as video proof of what I was saying.

You FAILED.



But that the NFL Officiating Committee already spoke on and debunked.....



Then you need to review the official NFL rules regarding holding, and what constitutes a hold. If you aren't sure, again-- I clearly posted the Official NFL rule regarding that matter, and clearly, it was a hold.



First off, the defenders is SUPPOED to be "trying to put a move on the tackle"-- he gets paid a large sum of money to do just that....



I don't know what video you are watching, but in the one posted above, clearly, the offensive tackle starts out his block by jabbing Haggans in the throat (which I think actually is allowed), and when that doesn't work, he grabs a handful of his jersey and pretty much tackles him. THAT is holding....



That is because they command an understanding of the NFL's rules that is as inept as yours. I clearly explained this penalty in detail as well-- you must have missed that part too when you were so busy being "evasive"....



You did not demonstrate or even attempt to explain how you think those calls afected the game at all-- you only gave your opinion based explanation of a few calls that you claim (and provide no accompanying proof) were bad calls.



No, it was funny. Once again, if you had actually read my post, instead of evading it-- you would see that I also clearly acknowlege in my post that WP's 75 yd TD run had nothing to do with the referees, I cited it for the hoot we Steelers fans get out of seeing the other team get burned on a high-scholl level play.



Again, maybe if you provided something that slightly resembles proof or evidence, you might get some respect. Until you do that, your attacks are ad hominem-- and nothing more. All you have done is insult the Steeler fans who provided reseaonable explanations, proof, videos, and rules excerpts, while simlutaneously addressing none of the very valid points made.

In short, you are not a very good debater, and you are quite clearly in over your head on this one.



That had to be one of the dumbest things I have ever heard. THis whole debate was started because some feel that their team would have won, or that the final outcome of the game would have ben different, based on refereeing alone. Saying that one whether that team would have won or not is irelevant, just shows that you really have no idea what you are babbling about-- that is central to the whole debate.

Your video of the holding call and OPI do nothing but prove my point.

Once again you resort to lame name calling and evasion. I've repeatedly shown how those bad calls effected the game. If you need it spelled out for you you are a lost case. Taking points off the board and changing field position for teams in itself changes a game.

As to your final paragraph. No, this debate is not about who feels their team would have won, it is about Bill Levy admitting that he made officiating mistakes. That isn't hard to comprehend. I've explained before that trying to be a revisionist in football history is useless because the game is liable to change at any moment for almost any reason.
Like I said, saying who would have won is irrelevant because it can't be proved. It's like arguing about what Napoleon would have done if he won at Waterloo. What can be argued and is relevant is wether or not the officiating crew did the best they could or if they made mistakes. Comprehend yet? Probably not because even in your post you were busy spicing it up with conspiracy allegations and off topic nonsense.

mikegrimey
08-08-2010, 08:24 PM
In short, the bulk of your posts are about how you feel Seattle fans are cry babies. You get into the same fruitless circular argument that the rest of the sheep do "Well you would have lost anyway". To your credit you try to justify the bad calls that actually happened, although unsuccessfully.

The OPI was not OPI. Calling what Jackson did a "push off" isn't correct. I've never seen a "push off" like that called before or since then. The only explanation I can think of is there was a giddy referee excited to be in the SB who threw it. That's probably not the right explanation though.

The holding was not holding period. Haggans did not get "Tackled to the ground" as you allege, which is evident to anyone who actually watched the youtube video. Your pitiful attempt to insult me by telling me "putting a move on olinemen is what defenders are suppossed to do" is unconvincing and unecessary as well. There wasn't a hold. Haggans beat a tackle but didn't make it to the QB.

The majority of your post was about how the seahawk fans are "Whiners" and how they "would hqave lost anyway" you even go so low as to accuse Levy of "chumming it up in seattle" as if he has something to gain personally by beating a dead horse. As I said Levy just wanted to let it be known probably because it was bothering him personally. If you can find evidence of him benefitting from this personally that would help your case but right now you're no better than the ones you denounce.

Riddle_Of_Steel
08-08-2010, 08:36 PM
The whole point of this isn't even what I'm arguing. I've debunked the whole idea that the NFL could have pulled off that kind of scam in this age of technology and denounce anyone who trys to say they did.

Fair enough.

Notice how you insinuate that Levy is "friends" with people in Seattle.

Well, why is he hanging out with the Seahawks at their camp? Are you saying that he would be uncivil with them while visiting their practice complex?

Quite unfounded, right off the bat you are dabbling into the same kind of conspiracy nonsense that you're trying to debunk.

Except that I have the backing of the NFL Officiating Committee who already reviewed the matter and made an official ruling. What Mr. Levy is engaged in is nothing more than Gatorade cooler-chat that is being cited as official statements by fools like you that are desperate to find somebody to back up their outlandish theories.

The point about the NFL officiating committee is negligible. What else would you expect them to say other than the game was well officiated?

I expect them to issue an OFFICIAL APOLOGY, like they did for:

* The Chargers/Broncos game that Ed Hoculi threw when he whistled the play dead when the ball was still in play.

* The Polamalu interception against the Colts two weeks prior, that they improperly overturned and gave the Colts a chance to come back in that game.

* The lack of a holding flag on the final play of our 2007 playoff game against Jacksonville, when the JAX offensive linemen clearly tackled our defenders to stop them from making the stop on David Gerrard's bootleg that won the game.

The point of my arguments was not that the referee's never make a mistake-- rather, that WHEN they do make mistakes, it gets reviewed (every game gets reviewed, in depth, as a mater of fact) and the NFL Officiating Commitee always issues apologies where it is deemed necessary for calls that were blown. They did no such thing for SB XL because the calls were all deemed to fall within the guidelines and rules set forth for officials in the NFL.

Your example over the Polamalu INT isn't legitimate because the Steelers actually won that game.

It was still an incorect call on the field, which the NFL Officiating Committee acknowleged immediately afterwards. The final outcome of the game is totally irrelevant in that discussion.

These are very different instances. Who knows if the NFL would have admitted it's mistake had the Colts come back to win. Is it possible they would have?

Yes, because the final outcome of the game has nothing to do with whether that was a blown call or not. The NFL has acknowleged blown calls in instances where it caused one team to lose, and in those where it had no effect on the game's outcome, and I stated some instances of both above (at least as far as we can tell without needing a time machine).

Maybe. Now, do you think if Seattle actually won the SB would the officiating would have changed their tune? Maybe as well.

Why would they? A bad call is a bad call, whether it causes one team to lose or not.

Like many people who try to justify this call they beat the rulebook verbatim.

Um....yeah. Since the rulebook is the basis upon which calls are deemed "valid" or "invalid", and what is a penalty, and what is not, I would think that they BETTER follow the rulebook verbatim-- otherwise, what is the use of having it?

What they don't mention is that the so called "push off" was negligible.

Pearl Vision has a fix for that. Darell Jackson changed his direction 180 degrees by pushing off of the defender, and thus, taking the defender out of the play. That was a textbook example of offensive pass intereference.

At best that is a ticky tack call---how anyone can watch it in real time and think that it effected the play is beyond me.

Some of us actually know what we are talking about. The rules DO NOT state the degree upon which the offender has to be guilty to have a flag thrown. The rules are very specific, and Darrell Jackson committed an infraction that was almost what the rules described, verbatim.

Jackson (who I had previously thought was deion branch my bad) sticks his arm out thats for sure, but to say that he pushed off is arguable at best. Is there even a push? No.

Yes, there was. Darrell Jackson changed his own momentum and direction 180 degrees by stif-arming the defender out of the play, thus using him as a springboard to make the catch.

Why don't we try this the other way around-- how about you tell me what scenario would have gotten the defender around Jackson's outstretched shove to make the tackle....

Funny that most Steelers fans would hate to see their own logic applied to this play.

I'd love to know how you plan to do that....

Chris Hope could have easily beat down that pansy ass tap and got in front of the pass.

And would himself then be guilty of defensive pass interference....nice try. You do realize the defender is not allowed to "beat down" the offender when the ball is in transit, don't you?

That's not what we're talking about though. Suppossedly this is a push off, when it isn't at all.

You are absolutely correct-- it was a stiff-arm...

This logic supposses that Locklear actually holds Haggans when he doesn't. You even throw in a "facemask" penalty to spice it up. This one really isn't debatable. There wasn't a real hold.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lcTm9...layer_embedded

Again, you need to pay a visit to your eye doctor. Clearly, in that video, at the 00:06 mark (where they even circled his holding hand for visually challenged folks like you), he has a handful of Haggan's jersey and is trying to pull him back from being able to make the tackle.

There you go again with your conspiracy nutting. Also making up myths that the nfl officiating comitte "debunked" this. They simply stayed mum on it.

Nope, again, I clearly posted the official statement made by the head of the officiating committee, where he concurs with all the calls on the field after reviewing the game....you must have evaded that part too.

Riddle_Of_Steel
08-08-2010, 08:49 PM
Your video of the holding call and OPI do nothing but prove my point.

As stated already, then you need to get your peepers checked. They even circled the hold in the one video for the benefit of blind people like yourself. The offense Darrell Jackson committed was a textbook example of offensive pass interference-- you denial of it does not change anything.

Once again you resort to lame name calling and evasion.

Well, logic didn't work with you. I have not been in the least bit evasive-- I actually address each and every single one of your non-arguments down to the individual sentence and smash them to pieces. Your inability to recognize when you have been beaten does not mean I have been evasive....

I've repeatedly shown how those bad calls effected the game.

You have done nothing of the kind. You have yet to provide even a single post detailing what effect you feel these bad calls had on the game at all. You couldn't be farther from the truth.

I am beginning to think you know you are beaten here, and are just stonewalling me now because you don't have a leg left to stand on.

If you need it spelled out for you you are a lost case. Taking points off the board and changing field position for teams in itself changes a game.

Yet you specifically stated that this isn't about who won the game and who didn't.....so which is it? Do you even know?

As to your final paragraph. No, this debate is not about who feels their team would have won, it is about Bill Levy admitting that he made officiating mistakes.

In direct conflict with what you said two sentences ago.....

I've explained before that trying to be a revisionist in football history is useless because the game is liable to change at any moment for almost any reason.

And WHO is being the revisionist here? I already showed you what the official stance is on the matter-- the Officiating Committee CONCURRED WITH THE CALLS ON THE FIELD!!!!! You and Mr. Levy are the ones engaged in revisionist history here, and nobody else.

Like I said, saying who would have won is irrelevant because it can't be proved.

I am not the one that has been obsessing with who won-- that has been firmly in the arena of the whiners and revisionist historians like you.

It's like arguing about what Napoleon would have done if he won at Waterloo. What can be argued and is relevant is wether or not the officiating crew did the best they could or if they made mistakes.

And that was already settled back in 2005 when the NFL Officiating Committee supported the calls made in the game. If they had found anything wrong with them, they would have retracted them and presented an official apology, like they have done countless times with other actual blown calls by referees.

Comprehend that yet?

Probably not because even in your post you were busy spicing it up with conspiracy allegations and off topic nonsense.

Nope-- I simply stated the facts. The official position on the matter was already stated ad nauseum. The current story about Bill Levy and his regrets about SB XL were made from hearsay and gossip that was being passed around the sidelines of Seahawks' camp, and trying to be passed of as an official statement from the NFL by guys like you.

Not a conspiracy theory, just the facts.

Riddle_Of_Steel
08-08-2010, 09:08 PM
In short, the bulk of your posts are about how you feel Seattle fans are cry babies.

Nope. I mentioned it once in my original post. The bulk of my posts have been a line-by-line debunking of your irrational claims and rambings.

You get into the same fruitless circular argument that the rest of the sheep do "Well you would have lost anyway".

Nope. I mentioned that once in my original post when I cited some of the other reasons why Seattle lost. None of my last several posts addressed directly to you have even mentioned who won, who would have won, who should have won, etc.

To your credit you try to justify the bad calls that actually happened, although unsuccessfully.

I provided video evidence, the official rulings, and excerpts from the official NFL rulebook. So far, all you have come to this argument armed with is simple denial, no facts, no explanations, no evidence, no video, NOTHING except "No, it wasn't holding because I don't think it was".

The OPI was not OPI. Calling what Jackson did a "push off" isn't correct. I've never seen a "push off" like that called before or since then.

How is that relevant? It WAS a push-off, as per the NFL Official rules-- your groundless denial of it does not make it so.

The only explanation I can think of is there was a giddy referee excited to be in the SB who threw it. That's probably not the right explanation though.

Well, at least you got that part right....

The holding was not holding period.

And it was, as per the NFL Official rules, period. Offensive linemen are NOT allowed to grab hold of the defender's jersey, and if they do-- it is a HOLDING penalty.

Again, your groundless denial of the rules does not mean they don't exist.

Haggans did not get "Tackled to the ground" as you allege, which is evident to anyone who actually watched the youtube video.

Nope, but he was well on his way there. Had the video progressed for about four more frames, you would have seen that he did in fact go down on the ground (I have it on DVD and memorized this game pretty well-- I only cite the Youtube links for your benefit).

Your pitiful attempt to insult me by telling me "putting a move on olinemen is what defenders are suppossed to do" is unconvincing and unecessary as well.

So...you are not convinced that defenders are supposed to "put a move on the offensive player" then? I am starting to have a hard time seeing you the pile of BS in front of you is getting so high...

There wasn't a hold. Haggans beat a tackle but didn't make it to the QB.

He "beat a tackle" all right-- an illegal one at that....

The majority of your post was about how the seahawk fans are "Whiners" and how they "would hqave lost anyway"

Nope. My initial post had a SMALL section at the end where I did the whole "Seattle would have lost anyways" spiel, and have not touched it since. You are the one who keeps bringing that up.

Sorry-- you can't even get that part right.

you even go so low as to accuse Levy of "chumming it up in seattle" as if he has something to gain personally by beating a dead horse.

He is not beating a dead horse-- he is saying something, in his own words, that directly contradicts what the official stance was on the matter, and the press tried to report it as if he made those statements in some official capacity.

He made those statements from the sidelines of the Seattle Seahawks' practice facility, in the process of having some personal conversations with the Seahawks players.

He has nothing to gain, except maybe some aceptance among the crowd that he is currently keeping company with. He made statements in a personal capacity, and the little Steeler haters like you come out of the woodwork, trying to pass off his words as being from an official league source, which they ARE NOT.

As I said Levy just wanted to let it be known probably because it was bothering him personally.

It can bother him til the day he dies and more-- it still does not change the fact that the NFL Officiating Committee reviewed all the calls in the game and verified them as accurate and fair.

If you can find evidence of him benefitting from this personally that would help your case but right now you're no better than the ones you denounce.

I am not denouncing anyone here except you and your outlandish and unsupported claims.

mikegrimey
08-08-2010, 09:17 PM
Hey riddle,

I'm gonna make this quick right now because I got the boot from the pc and I'm using my phone.
When I initially saw your post I noticed the schpeel at the beginning, end, and saw mentions of WP td etc. So I saw red and incorrectly lumped you in with a few dunces. That doesn't make it right but that's how it happened.

I'd like to apologize if I've attacked you and not your arguments, since you're clearly one of the ones who wants to defend the officiating and even though I think your dead wrong, you're making your case.

I got carried away and didn't read your whole post until a little while ago.
I'll be back, since were clearly at odds about the quality of the officiating but just wanted to put it out there that I incorrectly insulted you and apologize.

Riddle_Of_Steel
08-08-2010, 09:29 PM
Hey riddle,

I'm gonna make this quick right now because I got the boot from the pc and I'm using my phone.
When I initially saw your post I noticed the schpeel at the beginning, end, and saw mentions of WP td etc. So I saw red and incorrectly lumped you in with a few dunces. That doesn't make it right but that's how it happened.

I'd like to apologize if I've attacked you and not your arguments, since you're clearly one of the ones who wants to defend the officiating and even though I think your dead wrong, you're making your case.

I got carried away and didn't read your whole post until a little while ago.
I'll be back, since were clearly at odds about the quality of the officiating but just wanted to put it out there that I incorrectly insulted you and apologize.

Fair enough-- I was beginning to think that you not only disagreed with me, but that you were a bit crazy too, for seeing me saying things I most certainly have not been dwelling on like you said.

Unfortunately, I doubt I will run into you again here, at least as far as this topic is concerned. I am only an infrequent visitor to SF (I primarily post on CBS Sportline forums), and usually when I come back here to tend to posts I made several days ago, they are usually buried under about 20 pages of other postings that render what I was saying irelevant and 20 pages stale.

This thread will probably not last long either-- threads with lots of bickering and name-calling usually get nixed by the mods.

Kind of a dumb thread anyhow. I can only speculate as to Bill Levy's reasons for speaking up now-- it only re-opens recently healed wounds for both sides and does nothing to change anything (especially, as I stated since the NFL already ruled on the matter).

He is definitely entitled to his opinions, but the articles about this story should have a disclaimer at the end specifically stating that the VIEWS PRESENTED are not of an official capacity, nor representative of the NFL-- just one man's personal feelings and words.

steelerschik
08-08-2010, 09:48 PM
Fair enough-- I was beginning to think that you not only disagreed with me, but that you were a bit crazy too, for seeing me saying things I most certainly have not been dwelling on like you said.

Unfortunately, I doubt I will run into you again here, at least as far as this topic is concerned. I am only an infrequent visitor to SF (I primarily post on CBS Sportline forums), and usually when I come back here to tend to posts I made several days ago, they are usually buried under about 20 pages of other postings that render what I was saying irelevant and 20 pages stale.

This thread will probably not last long either-- threads with lots of bickering and name-calling usually get nixed by the mods.

Kind of a dumb thread anyhow. I can only speculate as to Bill Levy's reasons for speaking up now-- it only re-opens recently healed wounds for both sides and does nothing to change anything (especially, as I stated since the NFL already ruled on the matter).

He is definitely entitled to his opinions, but the articles about this story should have a disclaimer at the end specifically stating that the VIEWS PRESENTED are not of an official capacity, nor representative of the NFL-- just one man's personal feelings and words.


Yeah, me too, but that is a shame. I thoroughly enjoyed reading your posts and the points you were making with the facts to back them up. Very impressive. You also showed a lot more dignity in your posts than the other guy referring to people as dunces because they don't agree with him...me being one of them. Not only is it rude, it's totally uncalled for. Everyone has an opinion on this matter. You have stated facts. I never seen a Steelers fan so hell-bent on proving a point. I am a fan from the 70s and I could go on and on pointing out game changing penalties against the Steelers from years past, but there's no use in that. We all know the officiating was poor, but some of us don't believe that was the main reason they lost. Seattle played poorly, as did the Steelers, but they still didn't play well enough to win. I just wanted to give you props because you didn't result to rudeness or insults just because someone doesn't agree with you. Kudos! :tt:

mikegrimey
08-09-2010, 12:28 AM
Yeah, me too, but that is a shame. I thoroughly enjoyed reading your posts and the points you were making with the facts to back them up. Very impressive. You also showed a lot more dignity in your posts than the other guy referring to people as dunces because they don't agree with him...me being one of them. Not only is it rude, it's totally uncalled for. Everyone has an opinion on this matter. You have stated facts. I never seen a Steelers fan so hell-bent on proving a point. I am a fan from the 70s and I could go on and on pointing out game changing penalties against the Steelers from years past, but there's no use in that. We all know the officiating was poor, but some of us don't believe that was the main reason they lost. Seattle played poorly, as did the Steelers, but they still didn't play well enough to win. I just wanted to give you props because you didn't result to rudeness or insults just because someone doesn't agree with you. Kudos! :tt:


BTW, I never called anyone a dunce simply because they don't agree with me.
It goes without saying that "everyone has an opinion" so I don't use that as an excuse to overlook foolishness.
The dunces I was referencing were people that were willfully missing the point and refusing to face the topic at hand. Riddle wasn't one of these and I mistakenly lumped him in with the bunch.

mikegrimey
08-09-2010, 12:56 AM
Fair enough-- I was beginning to think that you not only disagreed with me, but that you were a bit crazy too, for seeing me saying things I most certainly have not been dwelling on like you said.

Unfortunately, I doubt I will run into you again here, at least as far as this topic is concerned. I am only an infrequent visitor to SF (I primarily post on CBS Sportline forums), and usually when I come back here to tend to posts I made several days ago, they are usually buried under about 20 pages of other postings that render what I was saying irelevant and 20 pages stale.

This thread will probably not last long either-- threads with lots of bickering and name-calling usually get nixed by the mods.

Kind of a dumb thread anyhow. I can only speculate as to Bill Levy's reasons for speaking up now-- it only re-opens recently healed wounds for both sides and does nothing to change anything (especially, as I stated since the NFL already ruled on the matter).

He is definitely entitled to his opinions, but the articles about this story should have a disclaimer at the end specifically stating that the VIEWS PRESENTED are not of an official capacity, nor representative of the NFL-- just one man's personal feelings and words.

It's too bad if you don't come back, it's nice to have people that can walk the walk around instead of just hopeless homers. I don't mind arguing or disagreeing with people. I'd rather have a real argument then fall back on a false sense of kum-bay-ya.

I didn't think it was a dumb thread, but I thought most of the people responding to it were just holing up insecurities, which is why I objected to the "well the seahawks sucked that game" argument from Steelers fans because most of them (not you) were overlooking the question of officiating to begin with.

I think Levy is a pretty reliable source for how he feels about the way he officiated a game. I reject the idea that he would do it just to have something to talk about in Seattle. Does anyone know the context of when and why he said it? Did a fan approach him with the question? A player? My point is I don't think Levy would say it just to get a standing O in seattle or rubbed the Steelers the wrong way. I don't think saying it gives him any professional advantage. The only thing left I can think of is he said it because he believes he muffed a couple of calls. Now, he may not represent the comitee of the NFL but he does have a lot of experience officiating and is probably a pretty reliable guy concerning his own performances. Most professionals take what they do seriously, so it doesn't suprise me that he would feel bad about it like he says. What is a little suprising, to both of us, is that he would come out after several years and say this. I still can't ascribe this to getting 5 minutes of fame or a professional boost, he had to have been saying what was on his mind.

I saw your example of the Polamalu INT, Ed Hochuli debacle, and Garrard holding incident. I personally attribute the league's apology over the Polamalu INT to the fact that the Steelers actually won the game. I know some may not find that relevant, but I could not see the league apologizing if we lost. Hochuli was apologizing as soon as he made the mistake, he took it upon himself. I don't know anything about the league apologizing for a no-call of holding in the Jags game, do you have a link to it? I have never heard of that. That would add a solid dimension to your case because converting a 4th and 12, although not impossible against our D that year, would have been a hell of a lot harder for the Jags.
My point was I didn't think that the league will ever go so far as to admit that an officiating crew influenced the outcome of a championship game. The Superbowl isn't quite the same as a week 2 division game or even a playoff game. More people are watching, they don't want to hear "yea we blew it".

As far as the "conspiracy" seahawks fans go, we see eye to eye. Our own government, which is infinitely more powerful than the NFL, can't even pull off a successful cover up with Pat Tillman. I can't see the NFL pulling that off and getting away with it. Somebody would leak, somebody would blab, some nosy person would find out.

So, in the end, what we're at odds about is the officiating itself. That's good. You made a good point that Levy wasn't even referencing the OPI call we're disputing. After looking it over, reading the rules, and looking it over again I've come to the conclusion that it technically a penalty. I'd like to add that it doesn't look important to the play. That Jackson and Hope both have their hands on each other at the time kind of negates the argument that Jackson was stiff arming Hope back. I'd like to add that this is a very pansy ass call that never rears it head in a game, much less a superbowl.

The holding, after repeated watching, and even looking at the "circle" of the alleged jersey grab. I'm still against it, I don't see a hold and think the Seahawks got hosed on that call. The trip I can't find a youtube on. I'll get back to that later.

So obviously I'm seeing a couple of botched calls that could have influenced the outcome of the game. Now, these calls don't give Seahawk's fans to gripe that it's "their championship" because nobody knows what would have happened with that First and Goal at the 1. Just for an example the Cardinals had first and goal at the 1 against us in a SB too---the next play we put 7 points on the board. In the same vein if they would have converted our offense had been slogging all day and Ben previously choked huge when we needed him just to be cool (that goal line INT) so who knows, we could have risen to the challenge and mind a stop or a take-away, you just never know. That's my point about people blaming officials for the outcome of the game. Only in a few rare instances have a seen games that have actually been DECIDED by a botched call, the broncos/chargers game from a couple of years ago was one of them, this one wasn't.

Riddle_Of_Steel
08-09-2010, 01:02 AM
Yeah, me too, but that is a shame. I thoroughly enjoyed reading your posts and the points you were making with the facts to back them up. Very impressive. You also showed a lot more dignity in your posts than the other guy referring to people as dunces because they don't agree with him...me being one of them. Not only is it rude, it's totally uncalled for. Everyone has an opinion on this matter. You have stated facts. I never seen a Steelers fan so hell-bent on proving a point. I am a fan from the 70s and I could go on and on pointing out game changing penalties against the Steelers from years past, but there's no use in that. We all know the officiating was poor, but some of us don't believe that was the main reason they lost. Seattle played poorly, as did the Steelers, but they still didn't play well enough to win. I just wanted to give you props because you didn't result to rudeness or insults just because someone doesn't agree with you. Kudos! :tt:

Thanx, Steelerschik.

I didn't use to be quite as reserved or respectful with my posting, and was well-known for stirring up some grand hornets nests on CBS Sportsline before. But something happened over there a few weeks ago....

I got into this huge debate with this Browns fan over the Big Ben rape thingy, and things got really ugly in the thread for several pages. And then, the next time I came on CBS, I found that this poster had died over the weekend (if you go to CBS now, you'll stil find threads on there dedicated to DGNR8).

I DID have the opprtunity to turn our argument civil, right before we quit for the weekend, but either way, it still affected me I guess, that most of my last words to this guy were insults and spoken in rage.

That's when I realized that alot of the posters here and in other forums are of differeing ages, and the one person you may have spent two pages running into the ground, could very well be some 6 year old on his parents' computer, and who is going to be scarred for life by the scathing posts sent his way.

Often, we forget that some of the posters who appear to be struggling in debates, are kids who have not had the benfit of a lifetime of experiences to draw upon in arguments, so they struggle to keep up with us adults, and consequently, get called "stupid" or "uneducated".

Anyhow, I'll get down off my high horse now....

Riddle_Of_Steel
08-09-2010, 01:04 AM
It's too bad if you don't come back, it's nice to have people that can walk the walk around instead of just hopeless homers. I don't mind arguing or disagreeing with people. I'd rather have a real argument then fall back on a false sense of kum-bay-ya.....

I would love to reply to this, and intend to tomorrow, but have to go now. I prefer this more civil angle the conversation has taken.....