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SteelKnight
08-10-2010, 07:09 PM
If you could only choose to keep one, who would you keep?

SteelKnight
08-10-2010, 07:16 PM
I like both player. I know there will be sentimental value towards Woodley but I must choose Ike Taylor.

1. Shut down CBs are more valuable and rare than good OLBs
2. Woodley is the second best OLB while Taylor is the top CB
3. There are two Rookies who may be ready to step in for Woodley next year Gibson and Worilds and even if they are not ready, they could put foot in at ILB and move Timmons outside (won't be necessary).

whatdoiknow
08-10-2010, 07:18 PM
I suspect Woodley will be re-signed. Ike could be as well. The steelers will likely cut cost by either releasing, or trading Harrison after this season, and hope that either Worilds or Gibson can take over.

FourThreeMafia
08-10-2010, 07:21 PM
This isnt a serious question, is it?

Ike Taylor is average at best, and thats being generous. Woodley is potentially an elite 34 OLB.

Woodley, by an embarrassingly wide margin.

SteelKnight
08-10-2010, 07:22 PM
I suspect Woodley will be re-signed. Ike could be as well. The steelers will likely cut cost by either releasing, or trading Harrison after this season, and hope that either Worilds or Gibson can take over.

Now I'm going to get sentimental. I'd much rather keep Harrison over Woodley. Sure he is older but I love the forced fumbles he produces. He's done too much to be released and it would make the Steelers look weak. If he wasn't under contract and they said they could not afford to sign him we'd understand but to cut him while he is under contract or worse...trade him? Oh no.

His game would have to seriously deteriorate over 2 seasons to pull that off.

SteelKnight
08-10-2010, 07:29 PM
This isnt a serious question, is it?

Ike Taylor is average at best, and thats being generous. Woodley is potentially an elite 34 OLB.

Woodley, by an embarrassingly wide margin.

Ike Taylor shuts down Moss, Wayne, TO, Ochocinco, Marshal, Sidney Rice. He is one of the top 5 cover corners in the league. Even Nmandi Asmoghua gave him respect as a top CB. The only thing that keeps him recognized is his hands (low INTs).

In considering, I also considered the talent we have behind him. We have Lewis and Gay. Even if Lewis turns out to be good, you need 3 good CBs in this league with all the 3 WR sets people are playing. Consider Baltimore has Bolden, Stallworth and Mason and the Bengals have TO, Chad and Bryant.

SteelKnight
08-10-2010, 07:33 PM
LBs are very replaceable. We have been through our share so this time I have learned. Porter, Lloyd, Green, Brown, Gildon... We always recover.

MasterOfPuppets
08-10-2010, 08:09 PM
woodley is 25, taylor is 30 .... taylor is entering the downside of his career while wood is entering his prime.

SteelKnight
08-10-2010, 08:19 PM
woodley is 25, taylor is 30 .... taylor is entering the downside of his career while wood is entering his prime.

Even if Taylor can give us 3 more good years, I'll take it. Gibson or Worilds can step in for Woodley. He won't get any sacks if the receivers are wide open and the QBs release before he gets there.

I don't know why everyone is so comfortable all of a sudden. Taylor is the only CB I know that can definitely play. MacFadden may be able to regain his form but he was bad last year. We'll hope for the best. Lewis. It is early. Gay...we've seen. I hear Burnette gets beat regularly. Why would you throw away your best CB?

kirklandrules
08-10-2010, 08:35 PM
Even if Taylor can give us 3 more good years, I'll take it. Gibson or Worilds can step in for Woodley. He won't get any sacks if the receivers are wide open and the QBs release before he gets there.

I don't know why everyone is so comfortable all of a sudden. Taylor is the only CB I know that can definitely play. MacFadden may be able to regain his form but he was bad last year. We'll hope for the best. Lewis. It is early. Gay...we've seen. I hear Burnette gets beat regularly. Why would you throw away your best CB?

Gibson and Worilds don't have the power that Woodley has. Notice that most of his sacks are not the result of his speed, but his sheer power when he blows up the right OT. You're not going to get that from those guys. It really frustrates a QB when they see the OT engage and the next thing they know Woodley is driving them into the ground. Those QBs are just taking a quick look to ensure those LBs are not running free, but they don't expect someone to pancake their 330 lbs tackle.

B Mac was bad last year because he played in a different system. He's made for the Steelers D. I think you'll see he plays well this year.

I think Ike is a very good corner, but there are only so many Woodelys. Letting Woodley walk would be like letting Hardy Nickerson and Mike Vrabel walk ... sometimes we do miss on those very good LBs.

SteelKnight
08-10-2010, 08:55 PM
Gibson and Worilds don't have the power that Woodley has. Notice that most of his sacks are not the result of his speed, but his sheer power when he blows up the right OT. You're not going to get that from those guys. It really frustrates a QB when they see the OT engage and the next thing they know Woodley is driving them into the ground. Those QBs are just taking a quick look to ensure those LBs are not running free, but they don't expect someone to pancake their 330 lbs tackle.

B Mac was bad last year because he played in a different system. He's made for the Steelers D. I think you'll see he plays well this year.

I think Ike is a very good corner, but there are only so many Woodelys. Letting Woodley walk would be like letting Hardy Nickerson and Mike Vrabel walk ... sometimes we do miss on those very good LBs.

No doubt Woodley will still be good just like Porter was and even Kevin Green but can we replace him is the question? I think it is a yes. I even feel Timmons could do well there. They've spent so much time training Timmons to do ILB but he would have been just fine rushing from the outside. By the way, Gibson has been overpowering people.

I hope you are right about BMac but Ike is still the better of the two. Ike must be resigned.

FourThreeMafia
08-10-2010, 11:10 PM
Ike Taylor shuts down Moss, Wayne, TO, Ochocinco, Marshal, Sidney Rice. He is one of the top 5 cover corners in the league. Even Nmandi Asmoghua gave him respect as a top CB. The only thing that keeps him recognized is his hands (low INTs).

In considering, I also considered the talent we have behind him. We have Lewis and Gay. Even if Lewis turns out to be good, you need 3 good CBs in this league with all the 3 WR sets people are playing. Consider Baltimore has Bolden, Stallworth and Mason and the Bengals have TO, Chad and Bryant.


He will have one good game against a good receiver, and the next, be dominated by a scrub. He is horribly inconsistent and usually. when he has had success against top receivers, he usually has alot of help over the top and with the pass rush. If you think he is shutting down those corners himself, you arent paying attention.

Calling Ike Taylor a top 5 cover corner is like calling Max Starks a top 5 LT. it is so far from the truth, its funny.

Ike Taylor year to year has mediocre at best metrics for how he fares in coverage. Ike does have some really good games, but he also has alot of bad ones.

Being good SOMETIMES does not make you a good corner..

Riddle_Of_Steel
08-10-2010, 11:34 PM
He will have one good game against a good receiver, and the next, be dominated by a scrub.

So again, the question remains unanswered-- who would you replace Ike Taylor with? We already have Woodley's/Harrison's replacements on our roster (Worilds, Gibson), but do we have Ike's relief?

He is horribly inconsistent and usually. when he has had success against top receivers, he usually has alot of help over the top and with the pass rush. If you think he is shutting down those corners himself, you arent paying attention.

Every CB has help over the top. Ike is often left out in space on his own while Polamalu plays closer to the line of scrimmage (if Ike is playing on our strong side), and has been VERY consistent. The only WR that usually seems to do well against Ike every year is Reggie Wayne.

Calling Ike Taylor a top 5 cover corner is like calling Max Starks a top 5 LT. it is so far from the truth, its funny.

Nope, just giving credit where it is due. He has cinderblocks for hands, but is one of the better shutdown corners in the NFL.

Ike Taylor year to year has mediocre at best metrics for how he fares in coverage.

Really? I have to beg to differ. I don't feel like copying and pasting several seasons worth of stats, but he routinely shuts down Ochostinko every year, shut down Randy Moss, Plaxico Burress, and T.O (except for one long TD catch) pretty well in 2008. last year our whole secondary stunk, but Ike was still, by far, our best coverage guy.

Being good SOMETIMES does not make you a good corner..

Either way, the issue here is still with roster depth. We have replacements for Woodley, we don't have anybody who is ready to step up and take Ike's place.

SteelKnight
08-11-2010, 04:11 AM
Riddle. Brilliant post.

You saved me from having to do it. For a second I thought I was alone in the Twilight one and nobody saw how good Ike is. He plays great every game...even agaist Wayne. Every once in a while he gets beat and has to hold and gets a pass interference call. That sticks in people's minds but what they forget is all the times he didn't get beat.

I want to see the examples of all the bad games Ike has had (since Tomlin got here in 07).

I'm glad you understand the replacement issue.

PhantomJB93
08-11-2010, 04:27 AM
The points brought up in Ike's favor are a great argument, and if they were the same age I would probably say Ike, but regardless of how much harder it is to get a great CB or who we have backing him up the fact of the matter is Ike is in the decline of his career at this point and doesn't have many great years left (Im not saying he's going to magically keel over this year or anything but still)...Ike is 30 and Lamarr is 25, Lamarr could easily be an elite OLB for another whole decade (barring injury), maybe even longer but, especially since speed is the first thing to go with age and it's the main advantage Ike has with his skillset, Ike maybe has maybe 2 or 3 years left as a good corner (yes, I realize there are older guys like Woodson and Bailey still playing at a high level, but let's be honest Ike is no Woodson or Bailey and I wouldnt bet on him having their longevity). Lamarr may have Worilds and Gibson waiting in the wings, but we can always draft a CB if we really had to let Ike go, not to mention Lewis and Burnett could possibly step into his role...

SteelKnight
08-11-2010, 04:31 AM
The points brought up in Ike's favor are a great argument, and if they were the same age I would probably say Ike, but regardless of how much harder it is to get a great CB or who we have backing him up the fact of the matter is Ike is in the decline of his career at this point and doesn't have many great years left (Im not saying he's going to magically keel over this year or anything but still)...Ike is 30 and Lamarr is 25, Lamarr could easily be an elite OLB for another whole decade (barring injury), maybe even longer but, especially since speed is the first thing to go with age and it's the main advantage Ike has with his skillset, Ike maybe has maybe 2 or 3 years left as a good corner (yes, I realize there are older guys like Woodson and Bailey still playing at a high level, but let's be honest Ike is no Woodson or Bailey and I wouldnt bet on him having their longevity). Lamarr may have Worilds and Gibson waiting in the wings, but we can always draft a CB if we really had to let Ike go, not to mention Lewis and Burnett could possibly step into his role...

It's not easy to draft a starting CB. It is easier to find a DE to plug into that OLB spot. It takes a year to develop but we have two training.

You have to have a bad year to get a good CB.

FourThreeMafia
08-11-2010, 05:51 AM
Before I address this post, since there is alot of critcism, let me say that I do not dislike Ike, nor am I bashing him, but Steeler fans continuously give this guy more credit than he deserves. With that...

So again, the question remains unanswered-- who would you replace Ike Taylor with? We already have Woodley's/Harrison's replacements on our roster (Worilds, Gibson), but do we have Ike's relief?

I never said we had a great replacement on the roster, but thats more a testament to the poor drafting at CB.

You sure as hell dont let young, potentially elite players walk, even if you do have good depth at that position.

If we lose Ike, we draft a CB early. Ike was garbage in 2009 and wasnt much better in 2008. His best year in the pros was 2007, but even that year he was very inconsistent the second half of the year.

Again, not saying we have a great replacement for Ike, but Ill take the far superior player in Woodley every time, especially since Harrison is getting older. Ill take my chances on getting a replacement for ike than trying to get someone to fill Woodley's shoes/



Every CB has help over the top. Ike is often left out in space on his own while Polamalu plays closer to the line of scrimmage (if Ike is playing on our strong side), and has been VERY consistent. The only WR that usually seems to do well against Ike every year is Reggie Wayne.

What Im saying is, they give Ike extra help against those top guys a good bit. Steeler fans try to make it out like Ike does it by himself....couldnt be further from the truth.

And sorry, but no, he hasnt been consistent. He is the furthest thing from consistent. Consistent receivers dont "shut down" a top WR one week and then get school by a scrub the next, and that happens way too often with him. He got hosed by several average WRs just last season, including Louis Murphy and Justin Gage. He constantly is out of position and if the pass rush isnt hitting full throttle, he struggles big time.

You guys say he is a great cover corner. Game tape and metrics beg to differ.

Nope, just giving credit where it is due. He has cinderblocks for hands, but is one of the better shutdown corners in the NFL.

You and I must have completely different views of what a shutdown corner is, because IMO, he isnt even close, and Im wiling to bet most people outside of SOME Steeler fans would agree with that.


Really? I have to beg to differ. I don't feel like copying and pasting several seasons worth of stats, but he routinely shuts down Ochostinko every year, shut down Randy Moss, Plaxico Burress, and T.O (except for one long TD catch) pretty well in 2008.

Elite pass rush can make any player look better than they are. It made William Gay look like a decent starter in 2008.

Not saying Ike has to do it alone or anything, but he has a pass rush in front of him most teams dont have. When that pass rush dwindles, even down to an average pass rush, he struggles more than a good CB should..

Put Ike on a team with a fairly average all around defense, and I doubt he could keep his job.

2006 was a good example. It was stupid to bench him because it wasnt just him, but he did play horrible that year when our pass rush wasnt clicking.

Ike Taylor has been "good enough" for this defense. When Troy is out or playing injured, Ike should be stepping up if he really was a great player. Instead, he plays worse (see 2006, 2nd half of 2007 and 2009),

last year our whole secondary stunk, but Ike was still, by far, our best coverage guy

Thats not saying much, considering with Troy out, aside from Ryan Clark, none of our starting secondary are even close to starting quality.

Either way, the issue here is still with roster depth. We have replacements for Woodley, we don't have anybody who is ready to step up and take Ike's place.

Because Worlids and Gibson have proven so much, right?

Who exactly do we have to replace Woodley thats PROVEN? Add the fact that James Harrison is 33 and is bound to slow down in the next few years, you are wrong there.

No, we dont have any real replacement for Ike right now, but....

Woodley, 26, elite pass rusher, good in coverage, great against the run>>>>>>>Ike Taylor, 30, inconsistent in coverage, average at best in run support, very little playmaking ability


If we can keep Taylor after resigning Wood, I wouldnt be opposed, but Ike Taylor is far from a great corner. Great corners can improve an entire secondary, kinda like a healthy Troy does.

Woodley, on the other hand, is younger, easily better at his position than Ike is at his, and could be one of the Steelers greatest LBs when his career ends. Most Steeler fans wont even remember who Ike Taylor was in 10-20 years.

Unless Worlids or Gibson step up big time and show they have even close to Woodley's all around game, he is not nearly as replaceable as Ike is.

Woodley...all day, every day and twice on Sundays.

kirklandrules
08-11-2010, 09:44 AM
No doubt Woodley will still be good just like Porter was and even Kevin Green but can we replace him is the question? I think it is a yes. I even feel Timmons could do well there. They've spent so much time training Timmons to do ILB but he would have been just fine rushing from the outside. By the way, Gibson has been overpowering people.

I hope you are right about BMac but Ike is still the better of the two. Ike must be resigned.

Fair point, but Porter and Green (like Gildon) were all allowed to walk on the downside of their careers. Woodley is 25 and has another 8 years of domination. And I think given his youth, he will continue to get better ... which could be scary for the opposing OCs.

Glad to hear Gibson is bringing it ... I am unable to watch training camp practices.

DoubleYoi
08-11-2010, 11:07 AM
I think FourThreeMafia hit the nail on the head with his assessment. Even though our depth chart (presumably) is better prepared to lose Woodley than Ike, it'd be a giant mistake to let a pass rusher of his caliber go. Especially with an aging Harrison who gets held every play, without penalty, because of his size. Plus, Worilds and Gibson may be more highly touted as far as pure skill but Lewis and Burnett have one more year of learning the system which should be a huge factor in this debate. Throwing a rookie OLB in Woodley's spot could be potentially catastrophic.

kirklandrules
08-11-2010, 01:55 PM
Throwing a rookie OLB in Woodley's spot could be potentially catastrophic.

I was assuming we were talking about which player we would lose after this year (since both Woodley and Taylor are playing out the year). So I don't think it's a rookie going into the OLB spot for next year. But I do agree that the depth at CB will have at least another year's experience on these guys.

FourThreeMafia
08-11-2010, 03:47 PM
I was assuming we were talking about which player we would lose after this year (since both Woodley and Taylor are playing out the year). So I don't think it's a rookie going into the OLB spot for next year. But I do agree that the depth at CB will have at least another year's experience on these guys.

Well, even after a year, at this point, we have no idea how good Worlids or Gibson can or will be. Some people on here seem to think that those two are locks to be good players. For every LaMarr Woodley, there are 5 Bruce Davis'. I hope they are good, but I wish people would stop counting those two as suitable replacements, at least until they show something....ANYTHING.

But, in the end, for me at least, it comes down to Woodley just being the younger and superior player. Im guessing we tag Woodley next year, then look to sign him long term. I think the lack of a cap is what is preventing that right now, but I do think he will be the top priority next offseason.

Also consider that , unlike Woodley and all the factors preventing us from signing him, we couldve resigned Ike Taylor long term this offseason if we really wanted. With him, we wouldnt have to worry about the 10% rule thing or paying him nearly as much, but they still havent, probably because, as I said, a) Woodley is by far the better player, b) they dont view Ike Taylor as that good, and c) they know who will be harder to replace.

sharkweek
08-11-2010, 04:24 PM
Keep in mind that the 3-4 defense revolves around the LBs, so based on that we should favor talent at that position over any other of our defense.

That being said, we can afford to lose Woodley more than Taylor in the short term, however for the long term Woodley is definitely the player we'd rather have.

Players like Worilds and Gibson aren't meant to replace both Woodley and Harrison. They're just here to go through the veritable Steeler LB farm that pumps out world class LBs on a regular basis.

Harrison took too long to catch on and he just now hit his peak at a pretty "old" age whereas Woodley is still relatively green being 7 years younger than Woodley - if we're going to groom any LB to be the future of our LB corps it would likely be Woodley with other young players like Timmons, Worilds and Gibson completing the package as we fondly/sadly say goodbye to aging greats like Farrior and Harrison.

If it wasn't for Taylor's brick hands it might be different. He might be in a top 10 or even top 5 CB if he caught most of his INT drops. Whereas Woodley is definitely considered one of the best in the NFL given what he does.

SteelKnight
08-11-2010, 06:40 PM
I was assuming we were talking about which player we would lose after this year (since both Woodley and Taylor are playing out the year). So I don't think it's a rookie going into the OLB spot for next year. But I do agree that the depth at CB will have at least another year's experience on these guys.

Yeah. We are talking about after the year when their contracts are up.

I'm disappointed that the poll result is 15-1. Even Riddle didn't vote for Ike. lol

To me, who you have behind makes a difference.

MasterOfPuppets
08-11-2010, 07:11 PM
Even if Taylor can give us 3 more good years, I'll take it. Gibson or Worilds can step in for Woodley. He won't get any sacks if the receivers are wide open and the QBs release before he gets there.

I don't know why everyone is so comfortable all of a sudden. Taylor is the only CB I know that can definitely play. MacFadden may be able to regain his form but he was bad last year. We'll hope for the best. Lewis. It is early. Gay...we've seen. I hear Burnette gets beat regularly. Why would you throw away your best CB?

that works both ways. a cb isn't going to cover a receiver with much success if the qb has 5 or 6 seconds to find an open guy.

FourThreeMafia
08-12-2010, 04:36 AM
that works both ways. a cb isn't going to cover a receiver with much success if the qb has 5 or 6 seconds to find an open guy.

Yeah,...Taylor would suffer more without Woodley than vice versa. Taylor gets humiliated when the pass rush isnt top notch.

Woodley would be a great player on any team. Taylor needs great players to lean on to even look like a good player. Not hating on him, but its the truth.

And if I hear one more Steeler fan claiming that Worlids or Gibson are suitable replacements, Im gonna flip. Im not saying they cant be good, but dear lord, wait till they show SOMETHING. Woodley has 25 sacks in his first two years starting, not to mention he is very good against the run and a beast in the playoffs. Acting like two guys who havent done jack yet could step right in is an absolute joke.

SteelKnight
08-12-2010, 04:59 AM
http://www.postgameheroes.com/?p=7017

Bt the way, Ike is still second fastest Steeler behind Wallace as of last year (don't know about Sanders).

Notice Gil Brandt says Taylor is a top 5 CB.

steeltheone
08-12-2010, 06:38 AM
Yeah,...Taylor would suffer more without Woodley than vice versa. Taylor gets humiliated when the pass rush isnt top notch.

Woodley would be a great player on any team. Taylor needs great players to lean on to even look like a good player. Not hating on him, but its the truth.

And if I hear one more Steeler fan claiming that Worlids or Gibson are suitable replacements, Im gonna flip. Im not saying they cant be good, but dear lord, wait till they show SOMETHING. Woodley has 25 sacks in his first two years starting, not to mention he is very good against the run and a beast in the playoffs. Acting like two guys who havent done jack yet could step right in is an absolute joke.

I really think you under value Ike....Woodley is a beast, but replacing an OLB in our system is not that hard.

You hit the worlids, Gibson on the nose!

SteelKnight
08-12-2010, 07:32 AM
I really think you under value Ike....Woodley is a beast, but replacing an OLB in our system is not that hard.

You hit the worlids, Gibson on the nose!

Exactly. Thanks. We've replaced big name OLB over and over again and Gibson or Worilds will be ready next year.

Good Corners are hard to come by. He covers the top receivers and does a good job...and he's fast. Even if they occasionally get 1 TD, fine. You won't see them scoring 2TDs on him...and that saying something for some of these top receivers.

Even if his game slips, you can always move him to nickel corner. You can never have enough good CBs.

DoubleYoi
08-12-2010, 09:28 AM
http://www.postgameheroes.com/?p=7017

Bt the way, Ike is still second fastest Steeler behind Wallace as of last year (don't know about Sanders).

Notice Gil Brandt says Taylor is a top 5 CB.

http://fifthdown.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/04/15/best-cornerbacks-in-the-n-f-l-the-top-10-list/

While we're tossing links out there, I'll give you one from a site that has no hometown feeling involved. As there is no specific criteria or stats involved in this listing and it's compiled by somebody with as much clout as Kermit the Frog, I'd take just about all 10 of these CBs over Ike anyday....probably even some of the guys in the honorable mention section.

StillerzFreak
08-12-2010, 11:17 AM
I love both players and would hate to lose either guy. Consistency cant really be thrown in Ike's face bc he's consistently been our best CB, coverage wise and tackling wise. He has shut down some of the best receivers in the league. Lebeau gave him high praise and thats enough proof that he is a top corner for me.

Woodley is an awesome pass rusher, but without Harrison how good would he be? Granted he'd still be good, but Harrison usually sees the majority of the double teams or help from a TE or RB. Also God forbid if we have to ask Woodley to cover a TE or RB out of the backfield. I love his strength, which is rushing the QB, and beasting through whoever is in his way, but as an all around LB, he still has a little work to do.

Ideally, we resign both guys, but if I have to choose one, I'll choose Ike. This is Pittsburgh, we just reload when it comes to LB's

kirklandrules
08-12-2010, 12:02 PM
Woodley is an awesome pass rusher, but without Harrison how good would he be? Granted he'd still be good, but Harrison usually sees the majority of the double teams or help from a TE or RB. Also God forbid if we have to ask Woodley to cover a TE or RB out of the backfield. I love his strength, which is rushing the QB, and beasting through whoever is in his way, but as an all around LB, he still has a little work to do.

Ideally, we resign both guys, but if I have to choose one, I'll choose Ike. This is Pittsburgh, we just reload when it comes to LB's

I totally agree with FourThreeMafia: stop thinking two rookies this year will fill the gap of a pro-bowl player next year. We are spoiled because this organization is one of the best at continuously cranking out great LBs. However, as Mafia points out, there are several Bruce Davis washouts for every Woodley. We lose track of those washouts because we are so focused on the first string studs ... but they are there and in the last 10 years their ranks could form an army.

StillerzFreak, I agree Woodley isn't 100% in all facets of the game, but who is? Hell, Ray Lewis isn't the best in the coverage department either. We also have to remember Woodley has only had a few seasons to learn how to drop back into coverage, given he was a DE in college. Don't you think Worlids will have that same learning curve? And he'll be tossed to the wolves next year if we dump Woodley. Harrison stated the other day that it takes a good 3 years for an OLB to learn this system enough to play on instinct and not think about his duties.

Also, the only reason Harrison deals with more double teams is because he's coming on the blind side. In fact, go back and watch some of those game last year and you'll see Woodley was being chipped and doubled a lot ... because teams have figured out that the left tackle can choke-hold Harrison and get away with it so they roll the extra blocker to Woodley.

I'm a fan of Ike's and certainly not a hater ... but Woodley is a game changer and has yet to reach his full potential, where as Ike can be inconsistent and can't seem to hold those critical INTs. In fact, he could have put much more fear in opposing QBs if he could have caught the ball more often than not. Opposing QBs aren't too worried if the coverage is tight when they know the CB can't catch worth a darn ... worse case is an incompletion.

StillerzFreak
08-12-2010, 12:40 PM
I totally agree with FourThreeMafia: stop thinking two rookies this year will fill the gap of a pro-bowl player next year. We are spoiled because this organization is one of the best at continuously cranking out great LBs. However, as Mafia points out, there are several Bruce Davis washouts for every Woodley. We lose track of those washouts because we are so focused on the first string studs ... but they are there and in the last 10 years their ranks could form an army.

StillerzFreak, I agree Woodley isn't 100% in all facets of the game, but who is? Hell, Ray Lewis isn't the best in the coverage department either. We also have to remember Woodley has only had a few seasons to learn how to drop back into coverage, given he was a DE in college. Don't you think Worlids will have that same learning curve? And he'll be tossed to the wolves next year if we dump Woodley. Harrison stated the other day that it takes a good 3 years for an OLB to learn this system enough to play on instinct and not think about his duties.

Also, the only reason Harrison deals with more double teams is because he's coming on the blind side. In fact, go back and watch some of those game last year and you'll see Woodley was being chipped and doubled a lot ... because teams have figured out that the left tackle can choke-hold Harrison and get away with it so they roll the extra blocker to Woodley.

I'm a fan of Ike's and certainly not a hater ... but Woodley is a game changer and has yet to reach his full potential, where as Ike can be inconsistent and can't seem to hold those critical INTs. In fact, he could have put much more fear in opposing QBs if he could have caught the ball more often than not. Opposing QBs aren't too worried if the coverage is tight when they know the CB can't catch worth a darn ... worse case is an incompletion.

I hear ya, in the choice between Ike and Lamaar, I chose Ike and had to make some kind of case against Lamaar. I agree with all you said, but I never said I had full confidence in Worilds or Gibson if we lost Woodley. I think it would be a tremendous down grade but we would survive a season or probably 1/2 a season until one of them catches on well enough to the defense. I really hope we can resign Woodley, but I would also hate to lose Ike. Hopefully they both stay loyal to the Steelers and dont ask for a maximum contract when that time comes.

GO STEELERS! :drink:

StillerzFreak
08-12-2010, 12:46 PM
We drafted Woodley in 2007, and he only sat out 1 year before entering the lineup and making an impact so it's not like that couldn't happen with Worilds or Gibson. Not saying it will but some of the comments that it takes 3 years to learn the system and blah blah blah doesn't work when the guy you are arguing for only took 1 year.

DoubleYoi
08-12-2010, 01:20 PM
We drafted Woodley in 2007, and he only sat out 1 year before entering the lineup and making an impact so it's not like that couldn't happen with Worilds or Gibson. Not saying it will but some of the comments that it takes 3 years to learn the system and blah blah blah doesn't work when the guy you are arguing for only took 1 year.

The fact that Woodley saw significant playing time in his second year doesn't mean he fully understands the schematics of Lebeau's system. There are a hell of a lot of intricacies to a Dick Lebeau defense and nobody can completely grasp it in one year....Woodley included. That quote was coming from Harrison which means a little more than if one of us yinzers said it.

SteelKnight
08-12-2010, 04:48 PM
We drafted Woodley in 2007, and he only sat out 1 year before entering the lineup and making an impact so it's not like that couldn't happen with Worilds or Gibson. Not saying it will but some of the comments that it takes 3 years to learn the system and blah blah blah doesn't work when the guy you are arguing for only took 1 year.

Yeah. People are talking about Bruce Davis but there was never the excitement in camp about Davis that Gibson has been getting. I'm looking forward to Gibson in the game (but you know people will complain it was against #2s).

I just don't know what they are thinking. If we lose Ike, what do we have? BMac, Lewis (unknown) and Gay as nickel? Typing that made me nervous. We NEED Ike. And until someone can outrun Ike, people sould stop talking about him as slowing down because of age. He is the second fastest Steeler.

SteelKnight
08-12-2010, 04:52 PM
The fact that Woodley saw significant playing time in his second year doesn't mean he fully understands the schematics of Lebeau's system. There are a hell of a lot of intricacies to a Dick Lebeau defense and nobody can completely grasp it in one year....Woodley included. That quote was coming from Harrison which means a little more than if one of us yinzers said it.

When you say "saw significan playing time" do you mean was the starter and looked good rushing?

FourThreeMafia
08-12-2010, 05:25 PM
I really think you under value Ike....Woodley is a beast, but replacing an OLB in our system is not that hard.

You hit the worlids, Gibson on the nose!

Replacing OLBs with SUITABLE replacements may not be hard, but replacing them with players the caliber of Woodley is.

I think alot of you are overestimating how easy it is to find a good LB. Yes, we hit gold with Woodley, but shall we go through the list of LBs we have drafted over the years that didnt do jack?

If we can keep Ike without losing Woodley, I am for it, but its very simple...

You keep the more talented and younger player.

Ike is not only easily replaceable, but pretty easily upgradable. I want a CB that doesnt have to rely on an elite pass rush and all pro Safety help to be any good.

Again, I dont dislike Ike, but based on coverage metrics from last year, Ike wasnt even a top 25 CB, and hasnt been since the first half of 2007. The only real reason losing him would hurt is because we dont have anyone else, not because we are losing a great CB, At some point, the Steelers have to hit on a CB. Maybe if they stopped waiting until the mid rounds to get one, they might do that.

FourThreeMafia
08-12-2010, 05:32 PM
Yeah. People are talking about Bruce Davis but there was never the excitement in camp about Davis that Gibson has been getting. I'm looking forward to Gibson in the game (but you know people will complain it was against #2s).

The point about Bruce Davis is, there are more misses than hits.

And how Gibson has looked in training camp means jack.
Dallas Baker, Ricardo Couchlough and Anthony Smith were all praised during training camp too....how that work out?

SteelKnight
08-12-2010, 07:48 PM
Ike is not only easily replaceable, but pretty easily upgradable. I want a CB that doesnt have to rely on an elite pass rush and all pro Safety help to be any good.



And where is that guy coming from. Any good FA better than Ike would be too expensive. The draft? We had a chance this year to get Kyle Wilson but we passed.

If we have a good season 32 might not have any CB that can shut down like Ike.

Yes, his style is agressive so he needs safety help if he messes up....but he's good.

Just remember he takes the top receiver and shuts them down. You are so ungrateful. Who is going to cover Reggie Wayne, Greg Jennings, Marquese Colston, Brandon Marshal, TO, Randy Moss, Santonio Holmes (lol) etc.? He's a beast.

SteelKnight
08-12-2010, 07:56 PM
The point about Bruce Davis is, there are more misses than hits.

And how Gibson has looked in training camp means jack.
Dallas Baker, Ricardo Couchlough and Anthony Smith were all praised during training camp too....how that work out?

I knew what the point was but my point was misses with rave reviews. Bakers praise was not that great. They were just amazed he was doing better than Sweed. Coch...eh. Smith ended up having a big mouth and no discipline. None of those 3 are LBs.

So what LB did they have praise for that was a bust? I don't remember a lot of misses that we were excited for that didn't pan out. Many of them, nobody was excited for.

The thing is we've been through this ysteria before about losing LB and we always survive. Porter, Brown, Gildon, Lloyd, Green, Nickerson, blah. I don't want to hear about ages etc. Each time one was going to be let go etc. there was hysteria of how thy could not be replaced. WE ALWAYS SURVIVE! Woodley is no different.

FourThreeMafia
08-13-2010, 12:33 AM
And where is that guy coming from. Any good FA better than Ike would be too expensive. The draft? We had a chance this year to get Kyle Wilson but we passed.

If we have a good season 32 might not have any CB that can shut down like Ike.

Yes, his style is agressive so he needs safety help if he messes up....but he's good.

Just remember he takes the top receiver and shuts them down. You are so ungrateful. Who is going to cover Reggie Wayne, Greg Jennings, Marquese Colston, Brandon Marshal, TO, Randy Moss, Santonio Holmes (lol) etc.? He's a beast.

Ike doesnt shut them down...the entire defense does. Does Ike help? Sure, but he is a system player....meaning they can plug another average corner and not miss a beat.

You keep pimping Ike as a shutdown corner, yet game tape and metrics from the last several years prove you wrong. In 2008, William Gay started several games when McFadden went down, and to that point, McFadden was outperforming Taylor. When Gay came in, he played just as well as BMac and better than Taylor. This was why they were comformatable letting BMac walk.

In 2009, Gay sucked, and Ike Taylor wasnt much better. Taylor's coverage metrics in completion % and Yards per completetion were in the bottom half of the league amongst starters.

I guess homers just see what they want to see.

He is not a beast. You can keep pimping him as one, but he is far from it. If he was as good as you make him out to be, the Steelers would have at least made SOME effort to sign him. They havent.

He is an average CB that plays well with TONS of help around him. CBs like Scrabble, Champ Bailey and Chales Woodson are guys who have PROVEN they can play at a high level even without top help. Taylor has never done that. He falls apart without that elite help.

I respect if you like Ike, but only Steeler homers pimp Ike as a great CB. He fits our system, but is very replaceable.

FourThreeMafia
08-13-2010, 12:43 AM
I knew what the point was but my point was misses with rave reviews. Bakers praise was not that great. They were just amazed he was doing better than Sweed. Coch...eh. Smith ended up having a big mouth and no discipline. None of those 3 are LBs.

So what LB did they have praise for that was a bust? I don't remember a lot of misses that we were excited for that didn't pan out. Many of them, nobody was excited for.

The thing is we've been through this ysteria before about losing LB and we always survive. Porter, Brown, Gildon, Lloyd, Green, Nickerson, blah. I don't want to hear about ages etc. Each time one was going to be let go etc. there was hysteria of how thy could not be replaced. WE ALWAYS SURVIVE! Woodley is no different.

What does it matter if Smith was a big mouth? he played great in training camp AND preseason and drew high praise from the coaching staff? This was before they realized he was beyond teaching.

And it doesnt matter about LBs...players in general. Fans always brag about how much certain players are being talked up by coaches, and most never go on to do much of anything.

So just because we have had luck replacing LBs in the past means we can easily replace a guy who has proven to be great against the run, has 25 sacks his first 2 years starting and 8 sacks in 4 playoff games?

Our pass rush the last 2 years has been better than any in Steelers history, and a big part of that is Woodley. Acting like two guys who havent proven jack can replace him based off of training camp buzz is ridiculous.

Please, take off the homer shades.

StillerzFreak
08-13-2010, 12:55 PM
Lamarr Woodley had 8 more tackles than Brett Keisel last year but you make him out to be a great LB? DE should not have almost as many tackles as one of your LB's in a 3-4 defense. He is a good pass rusher. Farrior, Timmons, Harrison all had more tackles and are all better in coverage so I dont see him as valuable as some of you do. I would hate to lose him but he is just as replaceable as some of you Ike haters think Ike is.

FourThreeMafia
08-13-2010, 03:10 PM
Lamarr Woodley had 8 more tackles than Brett Keisel last year but you make him out to be a great LB? DE should not have almost as many tackles as one of your LB's in a 3-4 defense. He is a good pass rusher. Farrior, Timmons, Harrison all had more tackles and are all better in coverage so I dont see him as valuable as some of you do. I would hate to lose him but he is just as replaceable as some of you Ike haters think Ike is.

DeMarcus Ware had less tackles than Woodley last year....guess he isnt great either.

The fact that you make the tackle argument proves you dont really know the differences in their responsibilities of their positions. its like Browns fans who pimp Dqwell Jackson because he has a ton of tackles each year. Too bad most of those tackles are after the runner has gotten past them and he is tackling them from behind.

If we are going to judge LBs on tackles, I guess we can judge CBs on INTs, huh?

Here is a fact...over the last 9 games, LaMarr Woodley was THE best LB in the league last year, and one of the better defensive players in the league. While your buddy Ike was one of the worst corners in the league.

I am not an Ike hater...its alot more conceivable that there are too many Ike homers. For the last few years, all I hear are homer Steeler fans trying to pimp Ike to be something he isnt. People say he shuts down all those receivers, but in alot of those games, another receiver had a good game...why? Because they were help Ike out alot leaving another receiver open. Thats why Chris Henry had some pretty big games against us.

The only reason losing Ike would hurt is because there is no one else behind him, at least not at this point. If he was as good as you are making out to be, the Steelers wouldve at least had talks with him. They havent, and unless he plays more consistently this year, they probably wont.

Woodley is younger and the better player, and some of you would rather keep an average at best system player who, like most of our defense, is in his 30's.

Good stuff.

SteelKnight
08-13-2010, 04:18 PM
Ike doesnt shut them down...the entire defense does. Does Ike help? Sure, but he is a system player....meaning they can plug another average corner and not miss a beat.

You keep pimping Ike as a shutdown corner, yet game tape and metrics from the last several years prove you wrong. In 2008, William Gay started several games when McFadden went down, and to that point, McFadden was outperforming Taylor. When Gay came in, he played just as well as BMac and better than Taylor. This was why they were comformatable letting BMac walk.

In 2009, Gay sucked, and Ike Taylor wasnt much better. Taylor's coverage metrics in completion % and Yards per completetion were in the bottom half of the league amongst starters.

I guess homers just see what they want to see.

He is not a beast. You can keep pimping him as one, but he is far from it. If he was as good as you make him out to be, the Steelers would have at least made SOME effort to sign him. They havent.

He is an average CB that plays well with TONS of help around him. CBs like Scrabble, Champ Bailey and Chales Woodson are guys who have PROVEN they can play at a high level even without top help. Taylor has never done that. He falls apart without that elite help.

I respect if you like Ike, but only Steeler homers pimp Ike as a great CB. He fits our system, but is very replaceable.

Please post these "metrics" or a link.

Taylor played better than Gay last year even though he was covering the top receiver. Even in 2008, BMac was covering receiver #2.

Good corners are hard to find. Anyone better than Ike would be expensive. I hope he proves himself this year...but you'll say it is Troy. Good CBs are needed. Having good safeties is not enough. Again, keep in mind who he is covering before you call him "average".

SteelKnight
08-13-2010, 04:29 PM
The only reason losing Ike would hurt is because there is no one else behind him, at least not at this point. If he was as good as you are making out to be, the Steelers wouldve at least had talks with him. They havent, and unless he plays more consistently this year, they probably wont.

Woodley is younger and the better player, and some of you would rather keep an average at best system player who, like most of our defense, is in his 30's.

Good stuff.

You keep talking about ike getting help from Lebeau's system. The LBs also get help from the system. I think Woodley would be great elsewhere but I think we would be fine without him. The new players really need to learn coverage. I'm not concerned about their rushing and getting sacks. I bet if they put Gibson in there next year, he'd get at least 10 sacks (at least). I worry about drop back coverage. I don't know if he can handle that yet.

It's no big deal. I like Woodson. I'm just saying I've seen the hysteria over LB leaving before and each time Pitt has stepped up. Good CB, on the other hand, are hard to find.

cloppbeast
08-13-2010, 05:39 PM
DeMarcus Ware had less tackles than Woodley last year....guess he isnt great either.

The fact that you make the tackle argument proves you dont really know the differences in their responsibilities of their positions. its like Browns fans who pimp Dqwell Jackson because he has a ton of tackles each year. Too bad most of those tackles are after the runner has gotten past them and he is tackling them from behind.

If we are going to judge LBs on tackles, I guess we can judge CBs on INTs, huh?

Here is a fact...over the last 9 games, LaMarr Woodley was THE best LB in the league last year, and one of the better defensive players in the league. While your buddy Ike was one of the worst corners in the league.

I am not an Ike hater...its alot more conceivable that there are too many Ike homers. For the last few years, all I hear are homer Steeler fans trying to pimp Ike to be something he isnt. People say he shuts down all those receivers, but in alot of those games, another receiver had a good game...why? Because they were help Ike out alot leaving another receiver open. Thats why Chris Henry had some pretty big games against us.

The only reason losing Ike would hurt is because there is no one else behind him, at least not at this point. If he was as good as you are making out to be, the Steelers wouldve at least had talks with him. They havent, and unless he plays more consistently this year, they probably wont.

Woodley is younger and the better player, and some of you would rather keep an average at best system player who, like most of our defense, is in his 30's.

Good stuff.

Your use of the word 'homer' is interesting, because you seemingly use it to describe anybody who likes Ike Taylor. Using the same definition, in contrast, you would be a Woodley homer.

Also the word 'best' and 'fact' do not go together in the same sentence. 'Best' is a qualitative word and can't be measured quantitatively, therefore it cannot be a fact that something is the 'best', only an opinion

You seem to discount every one of Ike's accomplishments because he's a product of the system. News flash: every player on the defense is the product of the system, including Woodley.

With that being said, I agree that Taylor is more expendable than Woodley, but it has more to do with age and depth at the position. We currently have 3-4 young CB who've been in the system a few years learning to play who should be able to step up next year, but at OLB we only have rookies. Combine that with the fact that Woodley is 25 while his conterpart Harrison is 32, I think it's imperative we keep Woodley, because probably only one of the 2 rookie OLBs will work out. On the other hand, Taylor is 30 and on the downslope of his career.

You have the right idea, but you should stop making silly arguments.

SteelKnight
08-14-2010, 04:36 PM
I wonder who is going to cover Calvin Johnson tonight. I'm sure any average CB can do it in the Steelers system with all that safety help...(sigh).

supa_fly_steeler
08-14-2010, 04:47 PM
LOL at people thinking Ike Taylor is a good cornerback.

Have they ever watched Charles Woodson

FourThreeMafia
08-14-2010, 10:18 PM
Please post these "metrics" or a link.

Taylor played better than Gay last year even though he was covering the top receiver. Even in 2008, BMac was covering receiver #2.

Good corners are hard to find. Anyone better than Ike would be expensive. I hope he proves himself this year...but you'll say it is Troy. Good CBs are needed. Having good safeties is not enough. Again, keep in mind who he is covering before you call him "average".

I would post the link...but its on pro football focus. com, and you have to pay for a membership. if you wanna pay and look it up yourself, go right ahead.

Saying Taylor played better than Gay proves nothing. Thats like saying Herpes is better than AIDS.

Good corners ARE hard to find...which is why we havent had a truly GOOD one since Woodson.

And I love how you flip flop your argument.

And the fact that you think he is ALWAYS covering the number 1 receiver proves you dont know the Steelers defense that well.

FourThreeMafia
08-14-2010, 10:21 PM
You keep talking about ike getting help from Lebeau's system. The LBs also get help from the system. I think Woodley would be great elsewhere but I think we would be fine without him. The new players really need to learn coverage. I'm not concerned about their rushing and getting sacks. I bet if they put Gibson in there next year, he'd get at least 10 sacks (at least). I worry about drop back coverage. I don't know if he can handle that yet.

It's no big deal. I like Woodson. I'm just saying I've seen the hysteria over LB leaving before and each time Pitt has stepped up. Good CB, on the other hand, are hard to find.

I will agree with you on that, the system actually benefits the entire defense. Difference is, Ike has been much much much more inconsistent than Woodley.

And I could say just as easily that Keenan Lewis could step into Ike's spot and play just as well.

Corey_J
08-14-2010, 10:31 PM
Is this a serious poll ? Woodley is a beast point blank !

FourThreeMafia
08-14-2010, 10:40 PM
Your use of the word 'homer' is interesting, because you seemingly use it to describe anybody who likes Ike Taylor. Using the same definition, in contrast, you would be a Woodley homer.

No...I havent called anyone who likes Ike a homer. I just said it is more likely that its Steeler homers overrating him than "haters" underrating him.

You guys can love Ike all you want, but its a fact that homers have given him more credit than he deserved in the past.

People used to defend Kordell Stewart too. Ike is defintely better, but fans tend to see players on their team as being better than they are.

And before you say Im doing that with Woodley, I guarantee that most people would agree that Woodley is the FAR superior player...Steeler fan or not.

Also the word 'best' and 'fact' do not go together in the same sentence. 'Best' is a qualitative word and can't be measured quantitatively, therefore it cannot be a fact that something is the 'best', only an opinion

Based on metrics, he was.

You are obviously nitpicking.

Either way, he was MUCH better than Ike was at his respective position. Thats not an opinion,

You seem to discount every one of Ike's accomplishments because he's a product of the system. News flash: every player on the defense is the product of the system, including Woodley.

So because I dont say "OMG!!!!! IKE SHUTTED DOWN ALL DEM WRs BY HIMMZELF!!!!!" , that means I am discrediting him?

I give credit where it is due. In 2006 and 2007, I hated...HATED Willie Colon and wanted him gone. In 2009, I gave him alot of credit for improving.

Ike isnt a bad player, but only homer Steeler fans try to make him out to be one of the better corners in the league. Has he had good games? Absolutely, but some people on here are arguing that he has been a consistently good cornerback, and he hasnt.


You have the right idea, but you should stop making silly arguments.

Maybe you should try making sense before you start calling my arguments silly.

My only argument has been that Woodley is much better than Ike at his position and is younger.

The only reason I even brought up Ike's talent is because some on here are trying to argue that he shut down top receivers by himself and label him a shutdown corner, which would be laughed at by mostly anyone outside of a select group of Steeler fans.

Stillerzzz
08-15-2010, 02:35 AM
i like Ike, but the answer is woodley ...by far


i dont get some of the logic in this thread.


supposedly we have the guys to replace woodley with the guys we drafted this year.
by that logic, wouldn't drafting 2 corners last year and 1 this year be guys that could replace Ike??

wouldn't having 2 guys in the system for 2 years (KLew and burnett) be better off then having one of the LBs drafted this year be in the system for 1 year

SteelKnight
08-15-2010, 02:46 AM
i like Ike, but the answer is woodley ...by far


i dont get some of the logic in this thread.


supposedly we have the guys to replace woodley with the guys we drafted this year.
by that logic, wouldn't drafting 2 corners last year and 1 this year be guys that could replace Ike??

wouldn't having 2 guys in the system for 2 years (KLew and burnett) be better off then having one of the LBs drafted this year be in the system for 1 year

Simple. Shut down corner is harder to replace than rushing OLB. It is not easy to draft a good corner (maybe first 20 picks) and it takes them another year to develop.

It is also not easy to get a good CB through free agency for an affordable price. Teams need 3 good CBs these days.

FourThreeMafia
08-15-2010, 05:28 AM
Simple. Shut down corner is harder to replace than rushing OLB. It is not easy to draft a good corner (maybe first 20 picks) and it takes them another year to develop.

It is also not easy to get a good CB through free agency for an affordable price. Teams need 3 good CBs these days.

True, a shut down corner definitely is harder to find.

Unfortunately, Ike is not a shut down corner. If you want to think Ike is shutdown...you go right ahead. You are in the vast, vast minority, and most importantly, completely wrong.

This isnt even about Wooldey anymore...its just about you completely overrating Ike Taylor.

But to add something here....Worlids didnt play and Gibson struggled, yet you want to take a risk on letting our best YOUNG defensive player walk because those rookies MIGHT be good? Please.

On the other hand...Keenan Lewis played better tonight against Calvin Johnson than your buddy Ike did. its only one preseason game, but the fact is, I am more comfortable with Keenan Lewis possibly taking over next year for Ike than I am with Worlids or Gibson taking over for Woodley.

You dont let a young, potentially elite 25 year old LB walk to resign an average 30 year old CB, even if CB is harder to find.

You keep the better player....end of story.

To wrap this up for anyone trying to label me an Ike hater....I wish to God Ike was a shutdown corner, because I wouldnt worry nearly as much. Fact is, Ike has some really good games and some really awful games, but for the most part, he is an average corner. His inconsistency is what has always bothered me. If Ike played all season, every season the way he played the first half of 2007, he would be a "shutdown" corner and one of the better corners in the league. Sadly, the 2nd half of that season was another story, and since then, its been the same story every year. Just a mixed bag of good, mediocre and bad performances.

Stillerzzz
08-15-2010, 02:53 PM
if ike is willing tosign at around his current salary, i think the steelers will look to keep him and sign him to a 3-4 contract. if he's looking for $8-9/yr...then he's gone


i actually fear the same for wood. if he's willing to take $7-8M/yr, then we'll sign him to a long deal. if he wants to break the bank and get dumervil type money, i'm afraid the FO might look at other options

FourThreeMafia
08-15-2010, 07:14 PM
if ike is willing tosign at around his current salary, i think the steelers will look to keep him and sign him to a 3-4 contract. if he's looking for $8-9/yr...then he's gone


i actually fear the same for wood. if he's willing to take $7-8M/yr, then we'll sign him to a long deal. if he wants to break the bank and get dumervil type money, i'm afraid the FO might look at other options

Well said.

If we lose Woodley, it will only be because he is looking for more than the Steelers want to pay.

Either way, unless there is a lockout, I see us at least tagging Woodley next year.

heath83
08-15-2010, 07:22 PM
they are obviously both great players for the steelers and the depth is always needed so i say just keep both but if i really had to pick it would be woodley because he is going into his prime

SteelKnight
08-16-2010, 12:11 AM
if ike is willing tosign at around his current salary, i think the steelers will look to keep him and sign him to a 3-4 contract. if he's looking for $8-9/yr...then he's gone


I actually fear the same for wood. if he's willing to take $7-8M/yr, then we'll sign him to a long deal. if he wants to break the bank and get dumervil type money, i'm afraid the FO might look at other options

I agree. Well said. I fear Dumerville messed things up. Woodly might want more than Harrison. Who knows? I still like Harrison better...the forced fumbles plus the fear he puts on O-Lines.