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whatdoiknow
08-14-2010, 09:09 PM
Cause the simple fact is...Lefty Sucks!! I mean when he is in the game, the other teams Defense just tee's off on him cause he is so slow, and has no escape ability whatsoever! Also considering Flozell Adams looks so horrible, we NEED a QB who can scramble out of trouble once Adams man passes him faster than " Paris Hilton " can say YES to Sex! :applaudit:


Please Tomlin,,,grow a Brain!! And start Dixon!!

truesteelerfan
08-14-2010, 09:12 PM
Dixon's gotta earn it IMO...If he does better, than yes...start him!

FourThreeMafia
08-14-2010, 09:12 PM
Cause the simple fact is...Lefty Sucks!! I mean when he is in the game, the other teams Defense just tee's off on him cause he is so slow, and has no escape ability whatsoever! Also considering Flozell Adams looks so horrible, we NEED a QB who can scramble out of trouble once Adams man passes him faster than " Paris Hilton " can say YES to Sex! :applaudit:


Please Tomlin,,,grow a Brain!! And start Dixon!!

Tomlin sees these guys every day in camp and will see them throughout the preaseason. Leftwich is slow, absolutely, but Dixon is not clearly the better choice...at least not yet. Dixon may be faster, but he still has alot of holes in his game.

Corey_J
08-14-2010, 09:27 PM
Dixon is way more explosive and lets face it Ben has to scramble because of that line play and theres no way that grandpa leftwich can hold up behind that line. Dixon plays very well under pressure and after they took the cuffs off him last year vs. the ravens he played very well ! Dixon is the man for the job !

whatdoiknow
08-14-2010, 09:37 PM
Dixon right or for wrong has driven the ball everytime tonight. And it does not matter if the Lion back-ups are in or not. Their starters aren't gonna catch him either. No, I don't want Dixon throwing the medium to long patterns over Lefty either. But Lefty can't throw them either...not when his A$$ in on the turf. Dixon FORCES Defenses to worry about more because of his diversity and his fleet feet. Lefty brings none of that. This is a No-Brainer faans. And IF Tomlin goes with Lefty, well then HE has No Brains!!

mikegrimey
08-14-2010, 09:55 PM
What do you know?

Apparently you don't know that there's a big difference between being a hero against the 2nd string and bubble players in preseason and doing it in the real games.

I'm not saying Dixon is garbage but you gotta have more than "he drove the ball everytime" against the practice squad and backups of one of the worst teams in the league.

whatdoiknow
08-14-2010, 10:07 PM
What do you know?

Apparently you don't know that there's a big difference between being a hero against the 2nd string and bubble players in preseason and doing it in the real games.

I'm not saying Dixon is garbage but you gotta have more than "he drove the ball everytime" against the practice squad and backups of one of the worst teams in the league.




A 66 Yd TD to Brown..( Who has clearly outplayed Sanders )...so,,,are we LEARNING yet! ? BTW, not alot, but several KEY Detroit players I see are still playing. And besides, Dixon is doing this with back-ups on his side as well. Look, BOTTOM LINE is...ANYONE who thinks Lefty is a better QB option for us then Dixon IS a Mother F;ing Moron!



Period!!

FourThreeMafia
08-14-2010, 10:07 PM
What do you know?

Apparently you don't know that there's a big difference between being a hero against the 2nd string and bubble players in preseason and doing it in the real games.

I'm not saying Dixon is garbage but you gotta have more than "he drove the ball everytime" against the practice squad and backups of one of the worst teams in the league.

Dixon played fairly well against the Ravens last year, considering he only had like a day to prepare.

Dixon has a long way to go. I think mainly what people are arguing is that he is a better option than Lefty. That remains to be seen, but I am hoping Dixon starts next game to see more of him against 1st string Ds.

FourThreeMafia
08-14-2010, 10:08 PM
A 66 Yd TD to Brown..( Who has clearly outplayed Sanders )...so,,,are we LEARNING yet! ? BTW, not alot, but several KEY Detroit players I see are still playing. And besides, Dixon is doing this with back-ups on his side as well. Look, BOTTOM LINE is...ANYONE who thinks Lefty is a better QB option for us then Dixon IS a Mother F;ing Moron!



Period!!



Stop makin idiotic comments.

We get it, you like Dixon.

SteelersJW
08-14-2010, 10:11 PM
I'm really not too trilled about either one of them. Lefty didn't have any success throwing the ball, or even moving a foot inside the pocket. The thing that worries me about Dixon is that he seems almost too prone to take off scrambling instead of looking downfield for something to develop. It will be interesting to see how many times he threw the ball compared to how many times he tucked it away and took off.

Ben, Ben, Ben... Why couldn't you have just stayed out of Milledgeville?

mikegrimey
08-14-2010, 10:30 PM
Whatdoyouknow,

Look I know you're excited about Dixon's TD and that you like him better but the point I'm making is that it remains to be seen if he can do it in the real situations instead of against backups and practice squad guys.

If Dixon is really playing good enough I hope the coaches give him a shot to show what he's got against the other teams starters. What i'm thinking is that the coaches and team are dead set on starting leftwich because they think it will be better for continuity when Ben comes back. That's just what I think, I don't know for sure why Leftwich seems to be in.

supa_fly_steeler
08-14-2010, 10:34 PM
What do you know?

Apparently you don't know that there's a big difference between being a hero against the 2nd string and bubble players in preseason and doing it in the real games.

I'm not saying Dixon is garbage but you gotta have more than "he drove the ball everytime" against the practice squad and backups of one of the worst teams in the league.

take the razor in the bathroom. and slide smoothly over your wrists.

Dixon played an amazing ball game in bad weather, so shut the **** up.

StainlessStill
08-14-2010, 10:39 PM
I didn't read all the comments, but am I the ONLY one who thinks Dixon is green and has NO feel of what it's like to be inside of the pocket? Of course he gives us that versatile feel with the bootlegs and taking off and what not, but he has a lot of developing to do when throwing it downfield. If a play breaks down, he's gone. At times, yes he picks up yardage but this is pre-season against backups vying to make a team. This won't work against the Baltimore's twice a season. Nice strike to Antonio Brown though. (Wow is that boy FAST!) Dixon has work to do, period but he has tremendous upside to atleast get a start in 3 more pre-season games to give him a chance.

mikegrimey
08-14-2010, 10:42 PM
take the razor in the bathroom. and slide smoothly over your wrists.

Dixon played an amazing ball game in bad weather, so shut the **** up.

Your routine is bland and your insults have no wit.

Ad hominem via telling anyone who disagrees with you to commit suicide? I've said if before but it needs repeated

You're a one trick pony.

whatdoiknow
08-14-2010, 10:42 PM
I know Dixon has some liabilities. Mostly playing experience. But that will come rather quickley, like after one more regular season game. But the reason why I want Dixon over Lefty is easy. Our O-Line totally Blows! I mean did you actually see them tonight ? I mean without any blitzes, they totally killed Lefty. And considering Lefty has zero escape skills, all the defenses that face him will just Bum rush him. Cause he is no rushing threat. But worse, unlike Ben, he has no creativity skills either. Experienced or No experienced, Dixon MAKES the opposing defenses have to worry more, and prepare more. And they cannot be as All-Out Aggressive towards him then they can Lefty. This is not a I hate Lefty thing. This is a " Given our terrible O-Line thing "

mikegrimey
08-14-2010, 10:43 PM
It's a little odd that you always talk about suicide and homosexuality. Seems to be the two things you're fixated on. The internet is a great outlet who people with repressed emotions but you should be telling most of this stuff to your therapist.

SteelCityMom
08-14-2010, 10:47 PM
I think it's a little early to be crowning anyone just yet. Yeah, Dixon can run, but a lot of times he does so when he's got plenty of time in the pocket to find an open receiver and gain more yards. Plus, they still have to keep the playbook VERY limited for him. Coaches don't like to have that in their starting QB.

I'd be extremely surprised if Tomlin went with Dixon as the starting QB at the beginning of the season. Right now, I think it's a matter of DD and Batch vying for 2nd.

And yes, the O-line looked like crap tonight...but it's still just the first preseason game. No need to go jumping to final conclusions about anything yet.

whatdoiknow
08-14-2010, 10:54 PM
Where do you get your Info that the coaching staff has to cut the play book for Dixon ? And not Lefty ? That statement is a statement of Ignorance. Maybe in the Raven game last year they did cause he was suddenly tossed out there. But to think a clearly Intelligent man like Dixon has not learned ALL of the play book by now is clearly delusional. And BTW, I did not see Dixon obviously run tonight when he still could have been looking for a WR. When he did run, the O-Line had clearly broken down, or it was a designed QB Running play. In fact, I saw alot of times tonight where while on the scramble, Dixon chose to tuck it and get what he could, rather then try a risky pass like he did several times in last seasons Ravens game. So Dixon's growth is clearly obvious to us who KNOW the game.

SteelCityMom
08-14-2010, 11:04 PM
Where do you get your Info that the coaching staff has to cut the play book for Dixon ? And not Lefty ? That statement is a statement of Ignorance. Maybe in the Raven game last year they did cause he was suddenly tossed out there. But to think a clearly Intelligent man like Dixon has not learned ALL of the play book by now is clearly delusional. And BTW, I did not see Dixon obviously run tonight when he still could have been looking for a WR. When he did run, the O-Line had clearly broken down, or it was a designed QB Running play. In fact, I saw alot of times tonight where while on the scramble, Dixon chose to tuck it and get what he could, rather then try a risky pass like he did several times in last seasons Ravens game. So Dixon's growth is clearly obvious to us who KNOW the game.

Maybe if your ignorant ass had been watching the game instead of picking your asshole you would realize that the announcers talked about it for a good 5 minutes or so and said that Dixon still has to have the playbook cut back significantly.

And again...maybe you were also picking your ass when they clearly pointed to AND replayed 2 or 3 incidents where Dixon ran when he had open receivers downfield. The one I remember most was where Sanders was hanging out by himself by the sidelines...no one around him...20 yards downfield and Dixon just ran for a 1st.

That's where I got my information from though...from WATCHING the game.

Don't act like you are some kind of football god if you can't even be bothered to pay attention to the game and not your own delusional fantasies.

StainlessStill
08-14-2010, 11:09 PM
I agree that Dixon has some deep playbook issues. Tomlin and Arians have been saying it for awhile that he's still in development mode and aren't too comfortable with him taking over a going deep within the playbook when gameplan is concerned. Last year in Balty, we had vanilla cut down to more vanilla of a gameplan.

DD also missed 4 or 5 wide open receivers downfield tonight when things got in his face and he took off, when I think it was E.Sanders wide open towards the sidelines on one instance, ALL ALONE.

He gives us a dynamic no question, but his pocket presence is non existent because he can't read a defense just yet when things get tight.

It's hard to hate on the guy. If he continues to get work then his athletic ability could give us that option of knowing what we have if Lefty falters early, but it'll be Leftwhich #1 opening day when all said and done. It's that atrocious and nauseating offensive line that made me sick tonight.

On a positive note, atleast the defense gang tackled. Even the backups and 3rd teammers were swarming. Good stuff.

whatdoiknow
08-14-2010, 11:13 PM
Maybe if your ignorant ass had been watching the game instead of picking your asshole you would realize that the announcers talked about it for a good 5 minutes or so and said that Dixon still has to have the playbook cut back significantly.

And again...maybe you were also picking your ass when they clearly pointed to AND replayed 2 or 3 incidents where Dixon ran when he had open receivers downfield. The one I remember most was where Sanders was hanging out by himself by the sidelines...no one around him...20 yards downfield and Dixon just ran for a 1st.

That's where I got my information from though...from WATCHING the game.

Don't act like you are some kind of football god if you can't even be bothered to pay attention to the game and not your own delusional fantasies.





Sweetie, Ah, when they were refering to that, they said that the play book was cut down for Dixon LAST season...not now...you Dumb *****!! And I guess what ? 7 total pass attempts, and Dixon gets a misly what ?...128 Yds passing :applaudit:
Yeah, when was the last time Lefty EVER did that ? Or any other QB for that matter. Bottom line My Sweetie Pie...DIXON led us to multiple, multiple scores. As where Lefty led us to being sacked Multiple, multiple of times!:banging::rofl::blah::blah::blah:



So please, take your shes off, get knocked-up, and get in the kitchen...like GOD intended you to do!! :wave:

SteelCityMom
08-14-2010, 11:14 PM
I agree that Dixon has some deep playbook issues. Tomlin and Arians have been saying it for awhile that he's still in development mode and aren't too comfortable with him taking over a going deep within the playbook when gameplan is concerned. Last year in Balty, we had vanilla cut down to more vanilla of a gameplan.

DD also missed 4 or 5 wide open receivers downfield tonight when things got in his face and he took off, when I think it was E.Sanders wide open towards the sidelines on one instance, ALL ALONE.

He gives us a dynamic no question, but his pocket presence is non existent because he can't read a defense just yet when things get tight.

Thank you...it's good to know a couple other people around here actually watched the game and understood what was going on.

DD has TONS of potential...but he's just not there yet. And barring a catastrophic injury to Leftwich, he's just not going to be the starter, no matter how much anyone wants him to be. He's vying for the number 2 spot right now and that's it. One preseason game against 2nd and 3rd stringers does NOT mean he's ready to go all out against a team during the regular season.

SteelCityMom
08-14-2010, 11:15 PM
Sweetie, Ah, when they were refering to that, they said that the play book was cut down for Dixon LAST season...not now...you Dumb *****!! And I guess what ? 7 total pass attempts, and Dixon gets a misly what ?...128 Yds passing :applaudit:
Yeah, when was the last time Lefty EVER did that ? Or any other QB for that matter. Bottom line My Sweetie Pie...DIXON led us to multiple, multiple scores. As where Lefty led us to being sacked Multiple, multiple of times!:banging::rofl::blah::blah::blah:



So please, take your shes off, get knocked-up, and get in the kitchen...like GOD intended you to do!! :wave:


LMFAO...you're so cute when you're wrong.

No, they were talking about now. Get over it. Pay better attention next time.

BTW...you suck at offending people. It's really lame.

P.S. In case you didn't realize it or maybe you didn't understand the words that people typed out twice now....Dixon played against 2nd and 3rd string players of the LIONS. Let's not get all wet in the pants over that just yet ok.

whatdoiknow
08-14-2010, 11:19 PM
Oh and you know all huh ? So I guess Lefty looking like a Virgin on Prom night against several of the same 2nd stringers that Dixon faced, only he MOVED the ball, as where Lefty was pressured, and either got sacked, or tossed it away, that was Impressive huh ? Remember, Lefty played damn near 8 minutes into the 2nd quarter, along with our other starters. As where Detroit cleared it's starters at the end of the 1st quarter. And Lefty did SQUAT! But I guess you missed that huh ? Probably too busy going down on someone.

SteelCityMom
08-14-2010, 11:21 PM
Oh and you know all huh ? So I guess Lefty looking like a Virgin on Prom night against several of the same 2nd stringers that Dixon faced, only he MOVED the ball, as where Lefty was pressured, and either got sacked, or tossed it away, that was Impressive huh ? Remember, Lefty played damn near 8 minutes into the 2nd quarter, along with our other starters. As where Detroit cleared it's starters at the end of the 1st quarter. And Lefty did SQUAT! But I guess you missed that huh ? Probably too busy going down on someone.


Ummm...no they didn't clear they're starters at the end of the first. Stafford and a good number of other starters played well into the second too.

Seriously...what game were you watching?

Again, get over the idea of Dixon starting in the season....it's just not going to happen unless Leftwich gets seriously injured.

Corey_J
08-14-2010, 11:24 PM
Its pretty funny how people try to talk shit on the net about shit out of their control ! Dixon played well with 2nd/3rd stringers vs. 2nd/3rd stringers of the lions. Maybe you missed that ? When he played against the ravens last year with the 1st stringers vs. one of the best d-fenses in the league he did quite well ! We cant make up the coaches mind for them nor do they even care for this measly thread but it was quite obvious tonight who the better qb is behind that BS line !

SteelCityMom
08-14-2010, 11:27 PM
Its pretty funny how people try to talk shit on the net about shit out of their control ! Dixon played well with 2nd/3rd stringers vs. 2nd/3rd stringers of the lions. Maybe you missed that ? When he played against the ravens last year with the 1st stringers vs. one of the best d-fenses in the league he did quite well ! We cant make up the coaches mind for them nor do they even care for this measly thread but it was quite obvious tonight who the better qb is behind that BS line !


Hi whatdoiknow....

You know, it's funny when people make second accounts on a MB just to agree with themselves, but end up typing in the same manner as the other person (I.E. putting spaces in between the end of a sentence and the punctuation).

Try harder next time dude.

Corey_J
08-14-2010, 11:29 PM
Hi whatdoiknow....

You know, it's funny when people make second accounts on a MB just to agree with themselves, but end up typing in the same manner as the other person (I.E. putting spaces in between the end of a sentence and the punctuation).

Try harder next time dude.

Last i looked this wasnt an english asignment DUDE :toofunny:

SteelCityMom
08-14-2010, 11:30 PM
Last i looked this wasnt an english asignment DUDE :toofunny:


Didn't say it was...I said you made it obvious that all you've done is make a second account so you can agree with yourself.

DanRooney
08-14-2010, 11:31 PM
If Leftwich has another mediocre opening like that next week, Dixon will be our #1 for preseason weeks 3 and 4 and possibly our starter for the regular season.

I'm no fan of Dixon's passing ability, but if Airhead Arians allows him to scramble like he did in those 3rd and mid-range situations, we have a very dangerous weapon. In the first 4 weeks of the regular season we need to score by any means possible, and if that means scrambling and trickeration then so be it.

Another bright side to tonight was Redman. He will absolutely the Steelers #2 back as well as the goal-line and short yardage back. Dwyer is still a work in progress.

Antonio Brown and Emmanuel Sanders are studs. I really hope they become the #3 and #4 receivers on our team. Brown has the same swagger as Santonio Holmes.

Pouncey played well at center and I hope he and Legursky make Hartwig expendable.

Corey_J
08-14-2010, 11:31 PM
Didn't say it was...I said you made it obvious that all you've done is make a second account so you can agree with yourself.
Shows how much of a retard you truely are. Where is my 1st account and check the IP adress nerd :thumbsup:

StainlessStill
08-14-2010, 11:33 PM
Why the hell does everyone have to fight about it? Why not talk in a damn civil manor for Christ sake. Nothin to really fight about amongst ourselves or issue out personal attacks.

SteelCityMom
08-14-2010, 11:36 PM
Shows how much of a retard you truely are. Where is my 1st account and check the IP adress nerd :thumbsup:

LOL...what ever you say whatdoiknow.

I told you why it was obvious. No need to check accounts or anything of that nature.

Anyway, I'm usually not in the habit of arguing with teenagers, so I'll just let it go at that. Have a good one.

Corey_J
08-14-2010, 11:36 PM
I live in Wisconsin and love the steelers more than 90% of the folks who live in pittsburgh man ! I own more than 70 jerseys and my entire basement is a steelers shrine . No need to try and morph myself and my ideas when 1 of me is more than enough for your 3rd grade wit ! You want to e-thug on the net , im down . You want to be a respectable fan and discuss this issue im down. You choose !

SteelCityMom
08-14-2010, 11:37 PM
If Leftwich has another mediocre opening like that next week, Dixon will be our #1 for preseason weeks 3 and 4 and possibly our starter for the regular season.

I'm no fan of Dixon's passing ability, but if Airhead Arians allows him to scramble like he did in those 3rd and mid-range situations, we have a very dangerous weapon. In the first 4 weeks of the regular season we need to score by any means possible, and if that means scrambling and trickeration then so be it.

Another bright side to tonight was Redman. He will absolutely the Steelers #2 back as well as the goal-line and short yardage back. Dwyer is still a work in progress.

Antonio Brown and Emmanuel Sanders are studs. I really hope they become the #3 and #4 receivers on our team. Brown has the same swagger as Santonio Holmes.

Pouncey played well at center and I hope he and Legursky make Hartwig expendable.

I can agree with that. If Leftwich continues to completely bomb I think it would be wise to give DD the chance to start, vanilla playbook or not. I'm just not sure he's ready to lead an offense yet.

SteelCityMom
08-14-2010, 11:41 PM
I live in Wisconsin and love the steelers more than 90% of the folks who live in pittsburgh man ! I own more than 70 jerseys and my entire basement is a steelers shrine . No need to try and morph myself and my ideas when 1 of me is more than enough for your 3rd grade wit ! You want to e-thug on the net , im down . You want to be a respectable fan and discuss this issue im down. You choose !


I was being respectable when I entered the thread whatdoiknow...you're the one who called me ignorant and implied I know nothing about the game. So, I don't know where you get off telling me to be "discuss respectably" with you.

I also never questioned your fanhood, nor do I care where you live. I also never said you morphed your ideas...they are obviously the same as your other account, as is the typing.

If YOU want to discuss it rationally with no name calling, I'm absolutely down...you're the one who chose to make it personal first though, so don't lay that on me.

StainlessStill
08-14-2010, 11:42 PM
I can agree with that. If Leftwich continues to completely bomb I think it would be wise to give DD the chance to start, vanilla playbook or not. I'm just not sure he's ready to lead an offense yet.

Seriously, I don't think it was 100% of Leftwhich's fault that he couldn't get a pass off. Did anyone watch the offensive line play? The dude (though sloppy) was in his back drop and as soon as his foot hit the ground there were guys coming free. Kemowilleatyou got beat multiple times and Flozell got embarrassed as well. To be fair, Lefty had NO chance behind that garbage of a display.

DD certainly deserves a chance to compete. I want to see him get atleast 1 start here coming up, but don't dawg completley on Leftwhich when the pass protection was nothing short of horrendous.

Corey_J
08-14-2010, 11:44 PM
I was being respectable when I entered the thread whatdoiknow...you're the one who called me ignorant and implied I know nothing about the game. So, I don't know where you get off telling me to be "discuss respectably" with you.

I also never questioned your fanhood, nor do I care where you live. I also never said you morphed your ideas...they are obviously the same as your other account, as is the typing.

If YOU want to discuss it rationally with no name calling, I'm absolutely down...you're the one who chose to make it personal first though, so don't lay that on me.

I only have one account ! I entered my opinion and then you started in as if I am 2 people. LOL

You fail this much !

http://i112.photobucket.com/albums/n196/corey608/dairy-fail.jpg

drizze99
08-14-2010, 11:44 PM
Can we have a discussion w/o the name calling?

I really think the Steelers are lucky to be in the situation they are in now given the circumstances. Not many teams have 3 QBs on their team that can win an NFL on their own. Yes, I am including Dixon in that statement even though he has never officially won a game YET. Dixon should have a W in his first NFL start but I believe our defense let him down when it counted against the Ravens. Dixon showed A LOT that game... On the road.... versus the Ravens.... on the Monday night stage.

What I don't like is seeing is Lefty get the preferential treatment. I know he is a veteran here but if you want to really find the STARTING QB for the first six games, both need an equal opportunity to play with the starters which has not happened yet. After tonight's performances, I hope Tomlin gives Dixon the fair shake he so deserves.

I want the best man to come out the starter for the season. I don't want someone anointed the starter because of past experience. If LEFTY performs the best with THIS Steelers team and this O-line then he deserves to be a starter but if Dixon performs the best, then Tomlin needs to start him. It's all about the now, and not about the "what was"

SteelCityMom
08-14-2010, 11:44 PM
Seriously, I don't think it was 100% of Leftwhich's fault that he couldn't get a pass off. Did anyone watch the offensive line play? The dude (though sloppy) was in his back drop and as soon as his foot hit the ground there were guys coming free. Kemowilleatyou got beat multiple times and Flozell got embarrassed as well. To be fair, Lefty had NO chance behind that garbage of a display.

DD certainly deserves a chance to compete. I want to see him get atleast 1 start here coming up, but don't dawg completley on Leftwhich when the pass protection was nothing short of horrendous.


No, I know the O-line was garbage tonight. That's why I'm far, far away from crowning Leftwich a bust and DD a golden boy. I'd like to see a couple more games before I even start to lean that way.

SteelCityMom
08-14-2010, 11:45 PM
I only have one account ! I entered my opinion and then you started in as if I am 2 people. LOL.

Sure...whatever you say, you're one people. Done arguing with you kid.

scsteeler
08-14-2010, 11:46 PM
I'm really not too trilled about either one of them. Lefty didn't have any success throwing the ball, or even moving a foot inside the pocket. The thing that worries me about Dixon is that he seems almost too prone to take off scrambling instead of looking downfield for something to develop. It will be interesting to see how many times he threw the ball compared to how many times he tucked it away and took off.

Ben, Ben, Ben... Why couldn't you have just stayed out of Milledgeville?

You Hit the nail on the head. Lefty sucks it takes him too long to throw the ball and Dixon wants to run first pass second! He needs to really improve on sitting in the pocket and trusting his line (cough, cough) and then take off as a last resort.

That being said Dixon is the better option because unless that line gets better quick we gone need those quick feet to keep the QB off the turf.

Corey_J
08-14-2010, 11:47 PM
Sure...whatever you say, you're one people. Done arguing with you kid.
Im 35 girly with a 13 year old son . I know what a kid is and im not one of them !

Corey_J
08-14-2010, 11:57 PM
Sure...whatever you say, you're one people. Done arguing with you kid.
Since you have your PMs blocked but sent me one ill reply here for you to see !



Look at the IP adresses . I entered the forum to talk steeler football and cant help it if people have the same temperment that I do. I have one account , i started it today as a matter of fact so I could share the same enthusiasm for a team I love as other fans. I wont allow you to think I am someone else that im not. Im not that person that got into confrontations with other folks, nor will I be compared to that. I will defend myself at anyones cost , that includes yours. Send a Mod a private message asking for an IP ADDRESS check . I expect an appology when you get the results ! Until then I will continue to defend my thoughts ..........thankyou and have a good day

Tone's Toes
08-15-2010, 12:01 AM
Dixon Absolutely HAS to be our starter at QB? I agree. You gotta run for your life behind that offensive line and Dixon is better suited to do that.

Steel_Bus_24
08-15-2010, 12:34 AM
Can we have a discussion w/o the name calling?

I really think the Steelers are lucky to be in the situation they are in now given the circumstances. Not many teams have 3 QBs on their team that can win an NFL on their own. Yes, I am including Dixon in that statement even though he has never officially won a game YET. Dixon should have a W in his first NFL start but I believe our defense let him down when it counted against the Ravens. Dixon showed A LOT that game... On the road.... versus the Ravens.... on the Monday night stage.

What I don't like is seeing is Lefty get the preferential treatment. I know he is a veteran here but if you want to really find the STARTING QB for the first six games, both need an equal opportunity to play with the starters which has not happened yet. After tonight's performances, I hope Tomlin gives Dixon the fair shake he so deserves.

I want the best man to come out the starter for the season. I don't want someone anointed the starter because of past experience. If LEFTY performs the best with THIS Steelers team and this O-line then he deserves to be a starter but if Dixon performs the best, then Tomlin needs to start him. It's all about the now, and not about the "what was"

I agree

Grav
08-15-2010, 05:30 AM
the offence seems limited with leftwitch but dixon adds the spark which is needed

kirklandrules
08-15-2010, 05:43 AM
This is great ... first game of preseason and all this controversy. Give it a few more weeks before we pronounce starters. :blah::blah::blah:

StainlessStill
08-15-2010, 06:51 AM
This is great ... first game of preseason and all this controversy. Give it a few more weeks before we pronounce starters. :blah::blah::blah:

Didn't Indianapolis go like, 0-4 EVERY pre-season? What has followed? 12 win seasons like it's noone's business. We'll be alright. It'll take atleast 2 more pre-season games to gel. I'm not worried at all. If this was happening during the 3rd and 4th games then chalk me down as an "uhoh."

steeltheone
08-15-2010, 06:55 AM
the offence seems limited with leftwitch but dixon adds the spark which is needed

They run a vanilla offense in preseason. You don't want to showeverything.

They mentioned last night on the telecast, that the playbook is limited with Dixon in there. This concerns me that in his third year that has to be done.

You must remember....Running QB's are not the ticket. You must be able to read defenses and throw. We learned this the hard way with Mr. Stewart...

scsteeler
08-15-2010, 08:33 AM
They run a vanilla offense in preseason. You don't want to showeverything.

They mentioned last night on the telecast, that the playbook is limited with Dixon in there. This concerns me that in his third year that has to be done.

You must remember....Running QB's are not the ticket. You must be able to read defenses and throw. We learned this the hard way with Mr. Stewart...



The playbook is limited anyone in preseason. If it is limited even more than normal then yes that is a concern. I don't think Dixon is the second coming of Stewart though.

whatdoiknow
08-15-2010, 09:01 AM
They run a vanilla offense in preseason. You don't want to showeverything.

They mentioned last night on the telecast, that the playbook is limited with Dixon in there. This concerns me that in his third year that has to be done.

You must remember....Running QB's are not the ticket. You must be able to read defenses and throw. We learned this the hard way with Mr. Stewart...





Who said Dixon is a running QB ? He is a QB who has the skills and ability to make plays with his feet. Not a QB who can ONLY make plays with his feet. Dixon only ran the ball one, just ONE time in last years start against Baltimore. As far as him looking like a Manning-like QB, he is not that. But who says that is what you need to win ? I mean look at Vince Young. In his 5th season, and does he look like
the " Perfect " technically sound QB ? No he is not. But what he DOES do is simple...HE WINS! If you look at any other young QB's after their first 4 years you will find it hard to find one with a better winning percentage then Young's. Who cares how he does it, or how he looks doing it...just get er done man...as Larry the Cable guy would say. Look, I would not mind Lefty being our starter IF our O-Line had any real pass-blockers on it. But it does not. This is a proven fact. But to simpley say that with Dixon we HAVE to cut the play book in half. And that he is solely a running QB with no chance of having any QB passing skills, or any ability to pick-up and read a defense is just plain stupid. EVERY QB needs playing time in actual games in order to get better. Learn the things he must, and Improve. Manning needed it. Marino did, and so did Ben. But ALL of them became very effective players during that first season as starters, or by their second season. Why is Dixon any different ?



Dixon before last years Baltimore game hadn't played in a game with any sort of meanning in almost 3 years people....3 years! ANY QB under that situation is going to look average when it comes to reading a defense and timing. And yet Dixon almost pulled it off. And please can we get off all the talk that Lefty was so good when he was here two years ago...cause he wasn't. Some of you act as if Lefty played, or passed like 150-200 attempts that season, and won 3 to 4 games for us...he didn't. And the guy was so bad that Tampa benched him in favor of not one, but TWO totally new rookie QB's. Dixon is not a " Project " QB. Or a Athlete/running QB
with no traditional throwing abilities. Cause Dixon clearly does have those skills. He, just like ANY Rookie QB, or young QB who has yet to be given an opportunity to play simpley needs REPS...TIME to get adjusted. Yes we will need a good, or better running game, and good defense to survive those first 4 games without Ben. But just like Vince Young, Dixon HAS that special something, no matter how sloppy he may look doing it to get it done. This is something that Lefty does not now, or ever had.


And having him continue to take 90 % of all the practice time withour starters, and the pre-season starts will NOT assist in the development in Dixon. And it certainly will NOT help us win regular season games. Not with Lefty's slow motion movement and anything close to Athleticism...not with our O-Line. This is why we MUST have that special " Magic " that a guy like Dennis Dixon gives us. THAT is why I feel he must start. I don't care about " Stats " or pure NFL QB techniques. I care only about ones ability to make that crucial play at the crucial time...and getting the WIN! And that is something that Dixon CAN give us. And something that Byron Leftwich cannot!



And that is my point. I don't wish to be argumentative. And I am sorry for my Insults to " Mom " I did not mean it to go that far. No matter who ends up our starter. If it is Lefty, as a steeler fan I WILL cheer for him, and hope for the best.

Riddle_Of_Steel
08-15-2010, 09:06 AM
Wow. The guy throws a few descent passes against the Detroit Lions second and third string guys and you some of you sound like he is on his way to Canton. Especially the clownshoe named "Supa-Fly"-- the one who likes to tell people to committ suicide when they disagree with his mostly sophomoric and insecure posts.

The fact of the matter is, we have won with Lefty, and clearly he has more experience. We have not won a game with Dixon, and despite all the name calling-- I heard them say it too-- the playbook is limited with Dixon at QB. That is not good.

On at least three or four occaisions, he had receivers wide open downfield, but got happy feet and decided to take off running. He has absolutely ZERO ability to read a defense and find the holes-- his best chance is finding that one receiver that wasn't even covered.

Lefty should be the starting QB. The offensive line stunk, but for "Supa-Fly" and the other fans who are watching their first Steelers offseasson-- they always do at this time of year. They don't usually gel until about the 3rd or 4th week of preseason. You'll see.....

stb_steeler
08-15-2010, 09:16 AM
Why the hell does everyone have to fight about it? Why not talk in a damn civil manor for Christ sake. Nothin to really fight about amongst ourselves or issue out personal attacks.

Yeah really, almost thought i was on the bunghole board for a sec.

Riddle_Of_Steel
08-15-2010, 09:20 AM
Not a QB who can ONLY make plays with his feet.

That's exactly what it looked like to me.

Dixon only ran the ball one, just ONE time in last years start against Baltimore.

And note, it ended in a loss. In Lefty's one major action for us-- he won.

As far as him looking like a Manning-like QB, he is not that. But who says that is what you need to win ? I mean look at Vince Young. In his 5th season, and does he look like

What does he look like? Overrated, for one. How many times have they benched Vince Young? His career passer rating is like a 76.3-- is that what you are saying we want?

the " Perfect " technically sound QB ? No he is not. But what he DOES do is simple...HE WINS!

Actually, in his one NFL start, he LOST.

If you look at any other young QB's after their first 4 years you will find it hard to find one with a better winning percentage then Young's.

Why did they bench him in favor of the Kerry "the Cryptkeeper" Collins 2008 - 2009?

Who cares how he does it, or how he looks doing it...just get er done man...as Larry the Cable guy would say.

And Larry's whole shtick is that he is an idiot and an inbred.....not a good one to mimic.

Look, I would not mind Lefty being our starter IF our O-Line had any real pass-blockers on it. But it does not. This is a proven fact.

It is week 1 of preseason. Our Oline always looks like that until the 3rd or 4th week of preseason. Is this your first Steeler offseason?

But to simpley say that with Dixon we HAVE to cut the play book in half. And that he is solely a running QB with no chance of having any QB passing skills, or any ability to pick-up and read a defense is just plain stupid.

Not stupid-- that's all he has demonstrated so far.

EVERY QB needs playing time in actual games in order to get better.

I know of a certain #7 that didn't.

Learn the things he must, and Improve. Manning needed it. Marino did, and so did Ben. But ALL of them became very effective players during that first season as starters, or by their second season. Why is Dixon any different ?

There is a veteran in front of him that is a better option at this point. That is what's different.

whatdoiknow
08-15-2010, 09:21 AM
Wow. The guy throws a few descent passes against the Detroit Lions second and third string guys and you some of you sound like he is on his way to Canton. Especially the clownshoe named "Supa-Fly"-- the one who likes to tell people to committ suicide when they disagree with his mostly sophomoric and insecure posts.

The fact of the matter is, we have won with Lefty, and clearly he has more experience. We have not won a game with Dixon, and despite all the name calling-- I heard them say it too-- the playbook is limited with Dixon at QB. That is not good.

On at least three or four occaisions, he had receivers wide open downfield, but got happy feet and decided to take off running. He has absolutely ZERO ability to read a defense and find the holes-- his best chance is finding that one receiver that wasn't even covered.

Lefty should be the starting QB. The offensive line stunk, but for "Supa-Fly" and the other fans who are watching their first Steelers offseasson-- they always do at this time of year. They don't usually gel until about the 3rd or 4th week of preseason. You'll see.....





Really, we have won with Lefty...when ? What game/s was he ever responsible for winning here, or even close to winning ? Please THRILL me with your Accumen. He has Experience ?...so what..so does Terry Bradshaw, why not bring him out of retirement and start him. Cause I GUARANTEE you Bradshaw is a HELL of alot quicker and faster than Leftwich! You know, if we followed your advice, Ben would not be our QB. Cause after the week Maddox got Injured, you would have been in here screaming that we are starting a totally Raw, and young QB over an Experienced Vet QB. Even if all of his past experience has been a failure.



I'm just waiting on the games that we have won because of Lefty...thanks son!

whatdoiknow
08-15-2010, 09:31 AM
That's exactly what it looked like to me.



And note, it ended in a loss. In Lefty's one major action for us-- he won.



What does he look like? Overrated, for one. How many times have they benched Vince Young? His career passer rating is like a 76.3-- is that what you are saying we want?



Actually, in his one NFL start, he LOST.



Why did they bench him in favor of the Kerry "the Cryptkeeper" Collins 2008 - 2009?



And Larry's whole shtick is that he is an idiot and an inbred.....not a good one to mimic.



It is week 1 of preseason. Our Oline always looks like that until the 3rd or 4th week of preseason. Is this your first Steeler offseason?



Not stupid-- that's all he has demonstrated so far.



I know of a certain #7 that didn't.



There is a veteran in front of him that is a better option at this point. That is what's different.





Yes we did lose against Baltimore. Dixon also had less than 2 days to prepare for that game. Dixon also had not played in over 2 years before that game, not even a pre-season game. And in that Baltimore game,,,Dixon LED us to the lead when he scored that rushing TD with less than 7 minutes to go...it was the DEFENSE that gave up the lead...Ah explain to me MENSA how that is Dixon's fault ? Where or when has Lefty EVER LED us to a lead in any game ? Cause if you're thinking of that Washington game,,Gee MENSA let me help you out...When Ben went down, we had a 16-6 lead, and Washington NEVER scored again, not even close. How exactly is Leftwich responsible for that ? Oh and the one long pass in the 4th he hit Holmes for,, the Skin DB slipped down, and even I could have hit Holmes with that pass.


So please MENSA, Enlighten us all as to what games Lefty even led us to victories. Cause Dixon, in his FIRST pro game of any kind. On a Monday night IN Baltimore, when he hadn't played in ANY game in 2 years,,,LED us to a 17-14 lead late in the 4th quarter after being down. And WHEN exactly has Leftwich EVER done that ?..what, maybe 6 years ago :thumbsup:. Please MENSA, go away. Stop making me :rofl::rofl::rofl:

StainlessStill
08-15-2010, 09:40 AM
Really, we have won with Lefty...when ? What game/s was he ever responsible for winning here, or even close to winning ? Please THRILL me with your Accumen. He has Experience ?...so what..so does Terry Bradshaw, why not bring him out of retirement and start him. Cause I GUARANTEE you Bradshaw is a HELL of alot quicker and faster than Leftwich! You know, if we followed your advice, Ben would not be our QB. Cause after the week Maddox got Injured, you would have been in here screaming that we are starting a totally Raw, and young QB over an Experienced Vet QB. Even if all of his past experience has been a failure.



I'm just waiting on the games that we have won because of Lefty...thanks son!

Really? You don't remember in the 2008 Super season?

Lefty pretty much came in after BR went down and played absolutley OUTSTANDING off of the bench @ Washington. That was a huge game considering we were vying for a 2nd seed as well as going down to the wire in the Division against Balty. I believe his first pass was a rocket, bomb down the field to Nate Washington. Here was Lefty's stats off the bench

B.Leftwich: 7/10 129 yards 1 TD 145.8 QB Rating.


Lefty also came in and helped up shore up our season and go into the playoffs as a hot commodity by beating the Browns at home. That slow poke, can't get out of the way quarterback with two left feet even ran for a T.D It wasn't pretty, it looked terrible a matter of fact, but he did it. So, he was responsible for doing his part and being the vet he is and coming into finish games to put 2 W's in the win column. Here's his stats coming in off the bench for against Cleveland.

B.Leftwich: 7/12 80 yards 1 Rushing Touchdown.78.5 QB Rating.

Give credit where credit's due when he was asked to perform.

whatdoiknow
08-15-2010, 09:50 AM
Really? You don't remember in the 2008 Super season?

Lefty pretty much came in after BR went down and played absolutley OUTSTANDING off of the bench @ Washington. That was a huge game considering we were vying for a 2nd seed as well as going down to the wire in the Division against Balty.

Lefty also came in and helped up shore up our season and go into the playoffs as a hot commodity by beating the Browns at home. That slow poke, can't get out of the way quarterback with two left feet even ran for a T.D It wasn't pretty, it looked terrible a matter of fact, but he did it. So, he was responsible for doing his part and being the vet he is and coming into finish games to put 2 W's in the win column. Give credit where credit's due.






This guy is a clueless Idiot :wink02: I mean Cleveland ? The Browns in 2008 were Horrible. They didn't score a single point in that game. And by the time Lefty came in, it was won! You see MENSA, in order to say a QB has LED us to a win. He has to have been BEHIND at some point, and then done something to actually be responsible for reobtaining that LEAD! In Washington, when Ben went out, we were UP 16-6..and guess what MENSA...We never lost the lead. And the late TD that Lefty DID throw to Santonio was ONLY because the DB slipped down, and Lefty tossed a little 5 Yarder..WOW! I am Impressed MENSA!


Ah, how about actually NAMING a game that Lefty DID actually lead, or bring a team from BEHIND to a Victory. When was the last time that happened ? Cause I can GUARANTEE you it never happened in Pittsburgh MENSA!!

StainlessStill
08-15-2010, 09:58 AM
This guy is a clueless Idiot :wink02: I mean Cleveland ? The Browns in 2008 were Horrible. They didn't score a single point in that game. And by the time Lefty came in, it was won! You see MENSA, in order to say a QB has LED us to a win. He has to have been BEHIND at some point, and then done something to actually be responsible for reobtaining that LEAD! In Washington, when Ben went out, we were UP 16-6..and guess what MENSA...We never lost the lead. And the late TD that Lefty DID throw to Santonio was ONLY because the DB slipped down, and Lefty tossed a little 5 Yarder..WOW! I am Impressed MENSA!


Ah, how about actually NAMING a game that Lefty DID actually lead, or bring a team from BEHIND to a Victory. When was the last time that happened ? Cause I can GUARANTEE you it never happened in Pittsburgh MENSA!!

Now we insult, okay, whatever. Listen you schmuck, now you're backtracking and just hating. I only provided facts to your damn question. You asked and I gave. Your question was when did Lefty ever win a game and the facts were provided. I don't give a rats ass if we were up by 100 in the game by any point, he still had to come in and produce and run our offense until 0:00 left on the clock. I also don't care WHAT team we were playing, whether it be the Browns OR the Bad News Bears, Lefty still came in, did what was asked, and provided us with points to seal any kind of W.

Stop acting like someone insulted your newborn, you don't have to act like a dickbag.

whatdoiknow
08-15-2010, 10:07 AM
Now we insult, okay, whatever. Listen you schmuck, now you're backtracking and just hating. I only provided facts to your damn question. You asked and I gave. Your question was when did Lefty ever win a game and the facts were provided. I don't give a rats ass if we were up by 100 in the game by any point, he still had to come in and produce and run our offense until 0:00 left on the clock. I also don't care WHAT team we were playing, whether it be the Browns OR the Bad News Bears, Lefty still came in, did what was asked, and provided us with points to seal any kind of W.

Stop acting like someone insulted your newborn, you don't have to act like a dickbag.




The FACTS are...Byron never won anything. In order to be credited for a win, you HAVE to have started the game. That's why Ben was NOT given the loss when he first played against Baltimore when Maddox went out. Ben is still credited for being undefeated his rookie season. Same to goes for Lefty. He did NOT get the win at Washington cause he did NOT start. Nor did anything he did in that game have ANYTHING to do with the win. I mean 30 total pass attempts two years ago in NO starts, or NO Comebacks makes a " Super Star " Elite QB like you're saying Lefty is.


Sorry, I will take the younger, faster, and BETTER Arm in Dixon over Suckwich! But, I will accept the fact that there still is a long way to go in pre-season. All I want is Dixon to get a FAIR chance with the starting unit. That way he can show all you nay-sayers that he can Indeed LEAD a first team Offense. Just like HE DID against Baltimore. Not his fault our Defense totally SUCKED last year.

steeltheone
08-15-2010, 10:14 AM
Once again on last nights telecast the anouncers stated they CANNOT run the full playbook with Dixon. I was as surprised as anyone to hear this.

Tomlin has watched Dixon for 2 years. They still traded for Lefty...There has to be a reason for that.

StainlessStill
08-15-2010, 10:14 AM
The FACTS are...Byron never won anything. In order to be credited for a win, you HAVE to have started the game. That's why Ben was NOT given the loss when he first played against Baltimore when Maddox went out. Ben is still credited for being undefeated his rookie season. Same to goes for Lefty. He did NOT get the win at Washington cause he did NOT start. Nor did anything he did in that game have ANYTHING to do with the win. I mean 30 total pass attempts two years ago in NO starts, or NO Comebacks makes a " Super Star " Elite QB like you're saying Lefty is.


Sorry, I will take the younger, faster, and BETTER Arm in Dixon over Suckwich! But, I will accept the fact that there still is a long way to go in pre-season. All I want is Dixon to get a FAIR chance with the starting unit. That way he can show all you nay-sayers that he can Indeed LEAD a first team Offense. Just like HE DID against Baltimore. Not his fault our Defense totally SUCKED last year.

How about relax and just let the process take its coarse. There is no doubt in my mind that Tomlin will put the final product on the field week 1-possible 4 to give us the best chance to win. Have faith brother and give it time.

whatdoiknow
08-15-2010, 10:23 AM
Once again on last nights telecast the anouncers stated they CANNOT run the full playbook with Dixon. I was as surprised as anyone to hear this.

Tomlin has watched Dixon for 2 years. They still traded for Lefty...There has to be a reason for that.




First of all, Tomlin didn't see anything of Dixon his first year cause he was still recovering from his college Injury. So last year WAS Dixon's first real rookie season. And since Ben was out at least 4 games, and Batch is basically a camp body, what did you expect ? Only 1 1/2 QB's on the team ? Getting another QB was an absolute need. Getting Leftwich was the Dumb move. Much, much better options were available.

desertsteel
08-15-2010, 10:34 AM
BOTTOM LINE is...ANYONE who thinks Lefty is a better QB option for us then Dixon IS a Mother F;ing Moron!


Period!!

Lol.... That's what I think you are.

Corey_J
08-15-2010, 11:15 AM
For the person that compared Dixon to K. Stewart , I know if your a true steeler fan you were all over Stewarts nuts when he was taking us to the playoffs. All we are asking for is 4 games ! Those 4 games arent against the best opponents so he has a better chance of getting the job done vs. lefty

steeltheone
08-15-2010, 12:25 PM
First of all, Tomlin didn't see anything of Dixon his first year cause he was still recovering from his college Injury. So last year WAS Dixon's first real rookie season. And since Ben was out at least 4 games, and Batch is basically a camp body, what did you expect ? Only 1 1/2 QB's on the team ? Getting another QB was an absolute need. Getting Leftwich was the Dumb move. Much, much better options were available.

Batch is not a camp body...Just injury prone

BengalDestroyer
08-15-2010, 12:27 PM
Dixon's gotta earn it IMO...If he does better, than yes...start him!

I agree, Tomlin knows best and if Dixon continues to do well and earns it he will indeed be our starter

StainlessStill
08-15-2010, 12:33 PM
The FACTS are...Byron never won anything. In order to be credited for a win, you HAVE to have started the game. That's why Ben was NOT given the loss when he first played against Baltimore when Maddox went out. Ben is still credited for being undefeated his rookie season. Same to goes for Lefty. He did NOT get the win at Washington cause he did NOT start. Nor did anything he did in that game have ANYTHING to do with the win. I mean 30 total pass attempts two years ago in NO starts, or NO Comebacks makes a " Super Star " Elite QB like you're saying Lefty is.


Sorry, I will take the younger, faster, and BETTER Arm in Dixon over Suckwich! But, I will accept the fact that there still is a long way to go in pre-season. All I want is Dixon to get a FAIR chance with the starting unit. That way he can show all you nay-sayers that he can Indeed LEAD a first team Offense. Just like HE DID against Baltimore. Not his fault our Defense totally SUCKED last year.

I'm going to have to re-respond to this, you're putting words in my mouth to justify your attack. I never said Leftwhich was an "elite" QB. Show me one sentence to where I REMOTLEY came close to saying that about Leftwhich. HINT: You can't.

Now, I get your weak point on Leftwhich's career and with the games he didn't start, point granted but it still doesn't escape the fact that he did his job well enough for our front office to go out and pursue him in the draft and trade away a draft pick. He knows the system and he knows of the guys around him. He's a veteran with a big arm that could manage the game quite well if put in the situation to deliver. Stop hatin' on Lefty, the dude still has a month to make an impression when it counts.

My question to you is this: If BL comes in and plays well and leads us to a winning record throughout Bens suspension, will you give credit and eat your smack? If he does go out and struggle, we can always turn to Dixon and plug him in the lineup if worst case scenario. Man, did Ben's actions **** up this rotation.

Hirsch
08-15-2010, 12:35 PM
Just got thru watching the game(tape delay). From what I saw I liked DD better than Lead foot Lefty . I know it is just the first PRE game but I thought DD looked better. Hope I don't get cussed because I don't agree with someone .

whatdoiknow
08-15-2010, 12:38 PM
I'm not hating on Lefty. But you act as if 2008 is 2010, it's not. 3 of our prime WR's Byron has never played with, or Mendy either. Dixon has played with Mendy, and Wallace as well. And no matter what you think, tossing 30 pretty much meaningless passes two years ago, none of which ever came close to contributing to a win for us does NOT make Lefty anymore ready, or capable than Dixon. Sorry but it doesn't. But I do agree we have more time. Certainly give Lefty some more chances yes. Just don't give him ALL the starting chances in pre-season, and let Dixon mop up. Cause you're not doing the team, or Dixon any good by annointing Leftwich as the starter without him truly EARNING it! That's really all I'm saying.

StainlessStill
08-15-2010, 12:42 PM
Just got thru watching the game(tape delay). From what I saw I liked DD better than Lead foot Lefty . I know it is just the first PRE game but I thought DD looked better. Hope I don't get cussed because I don't agree with someone .

Nope, you're actually right. (For the record, you're allowed to have your opinion based on what you seen you know. As you can see, if you disagree with some characters and their thoughts they go apeshit.)

Dixon looked outstanding compared to Leftwhich's performance. But it goes deeper than numbers. You must understand the circumstance of the pre-season and going up against a teams underclassman versus the starting units.

Dixon looked great, but he still showed signs of immaturity in the pocket. It's all fine and dandy watching him run around in pre-season, but if and when the season does come and if he gets the nod somewhere during the rotation, something tells me he won't be running it like that against a starting elite defense. Would you REALLY want Dixon to be running all over the place just waiting to get splattered? He's going to have to show me with his passing game, which I'm sure he will.

diehardsteeler
08-15-2010, 12:47 PM
I think they both play...Its only 4 games...it's not like its the whole year. Lefty looked older and slower...Dixon is an exciting player, no doubt...

But I'd rather see him come in for a few series to shake things up or even plays...our offense looked alot different, BA has some ideas of how to get the most from them both.

If teams have to play for both QB's (that are that different) it'll be alot of work.

Last...put DD & Lefty together and they combine to play like Ben....I'd like to see DD end up #2 this season or atleast by next. He's not going anywhere...

DS

StainlessStill
08-15-2010, 12:50 PM
I'm not hating on Lefty. But you act as if 2008 is 2010, it's not. 3 of our prime WR's Byron has never played with, or Mendy either. Dixon has played with Mendy, and Wallace as well. And no matter what you think, tossing 30 pretty much meaningless passes two years ago, none of which ever came close to contributing to a win for us does NOT make Lefty anymore ready, or capable than Dixon. Sorry but it doesn't. But I do agree we have more time. Certainly give Lefty some more chances yes. Just don't give him ALL the starting chances in pre-season, and let Dixon mop up. Cause you're not doing the team, or Dixon any good by annointing Leftwich as the starter without him truly EARNING it! That's really all I'm saying.

Dude, you're logic is so unbelievably weak it's not even funny. It's quite clear that you are 100% fact hating on Leftwhich before taking anything else into consideration.

none of which ever came close to contributing to a win for us does NOT make Lefty anymore ready, or capable than Dixon. Sorry but it doesn't


Based on what? Dennis Dixon played in a total of 1 professional football game that resulted into a loss because of his inexperience. Leftwhich has won games in this league and is proven to be a tough S.O.B and has gotten knocked around before and has already proven he can come off the bench and manage the team to a W. That statement is silly. You must call it down the middle here.


You're being hypocritical and claiming things as fact within something brewed up inside of your own opinion and imagination before the Steelers are even within their second pre-season game. You claim that "it's not 2008" argument and throw in Mendy and Wallace, which is completley irrelevant, but yet some posts before you jump on Leftwhich for not winning games for us back in 2008 when he was last on the roster.

Don't you see how backwards your argument is? You certainly are biased against a Leftwhich led team. Take your own advice and live in 2010 and not your hypothetical opinions and give 2010 a chance if Lefty is indeed the starter. What anyone has done before this is irrelevant to the matter other than NOW.

Whoever gets the nod at the start of the season will be given the opportunity week 1, which should be fair and consistent. I'd like for Dixon to start atleast 1 or possible 2 games with 1st teammers during this preseason and I'm sure he will.

diehardsteeler
08-15-2010, 01:21 PM
Whoever gets the nod at the start of the season will be given the opportunity week 1, which should be fair and consistent. I'd like for Dixon to start atleast 1 or possible 2 games with 1st teammers during this preseason and I'm sure he will.

Good point....

That seems like the next logical step...a preseason start...Then we'll see.

I still would like to see Dd play a series or two, if Lefty starts, especially in the 2nd half, when Defs are tired during the first few games...

DS

diehardsteeler
08-15-2010, 01:22 PM
Sorry Stainless...I thought I knew how to do the quotes in grey like yours....I don't

DS

lionslicer
08-15-2010, 01:34 PM
He wont start because he isn't that smart. He can't memorize a full playbook, and from a coaches view, that can be a disaster late in games. Pro Defensive players like Ray Lewis can catch onto a shortage of plays and re-using the same plays over later in the game and thats no good.

Byron is only usefull if he has a good line in front of him, and face it, the Steeler's O-line played really bad yesterday and he was destroyed.
We were also playing the Lions, Dixon had a good game against a suffering Defense. Against better defenses, he'll show weaknesses.

whatdoiknow
08-15-2010, 01:41 PM
He wont start because he isn't that smart. He can't memorize a full playbook, and from a coaches view, that can be a disaster late in games. Pro Defensive players like Ray Lewis can catch onto a shortage of plays and re-using the same plays over later in the game and thats no good.

Byron is only usefull if he has a good line in front of him, and face it, the Steeler's O-line played really bad yesterday and he was destroyed.
We were also playing the Lions, Dixon had a good game against a suffering Defense. Against better defenses, he'll show weaknesses.



Your logic is Idiotic. Not to mention " Racist " Who says Dion isnot sma enough. He played against a top-3 defense last year in their park on Monday night, and moved the ball, and put us in a situation where we could win. Yeah maybe last year he only took in a few plays cause he was never practiced with the first team, and was a last second replacement for an Injured Ben. If you remember in Ben's first year, did HE memorize, or utilized the entire playbook ? Cause if you think he did, again, see the " Idiotic " reference. :banging:

Corey_J
08-15-2010, 01:53 PM
Your logic is Idiotic. Not to mention " Racist " Who says Dion isnot sma enough. He played against a top-3 defense last year in their park on Monday night, and moved the ball, and put us in a situation where we could win. Yeah maybe last year he only took in a few plays cause he was never practiced with the first team, and was a last second replacement for an Injured Ben. If you remember in Ben's first year, did HE memorize, or utilized the entire playbook ? Cause if you think he did, again, see the " Idiotic " reference. :banging:
I seen no racist remark..............:coffee: you must be trying to read into comments more than they are. Or are you one of those guys who jumps on the Racism bandwagon ?

StainlessStill
08-15-2010, 01:53 PM
Sorry Stainless...I thought I knew how to do the quotes in grey like yours....I don't

DS


No problem. If you ever want to quote someone, you can highlight and copy the sentence you want and hit this button along the taskbar above when you when posting when you have the sentence you need highlighted or copied. http://forums.steelersfever.com/images/editor/quote.gif


Hope that helps.

whatdoiknow
08-15-2010, 02:01 PM
I seen no racist remark..............:coffee: you must be trying to read into comments more than they are. Or are you one of those guys who jumps on the Racism bandwagon ?



Well lets see, he stated that Dixon was not smart enough to learn the whole playbook. And NO QB in the History of the league has ever learned an entire offense in their first game. Also, I always seem to read when a " Athletic " Black QB who people proclaim is more of a running QB then a traditional passing QB, they always go to the " He isn't smart enough card " Which is exactly what this clown was doing.
Look, the bottom line is, we all KNOW what Lefty can do, and what his many limitations are. Starting him in any pre-season games will mean nothing to him growing, or showing more as a QB. But in Dixon's case, he can grow, and we can see what his strengths are against first-team defenses. And for anyone to ASSume that Dixon is some how not smart enough is ridiculous.

Corey_J
08-15-2010, 02:03 PM
Well lets see, he stated that Dixon was not smart enough to learn the whole playbook. And NO QB in the History of the league has ever learned an entire offense in their first game. Also, I always seem to read when a " Athletic " Black QB who people proclaim is more of a running QB then a traditional passing QB, they always go to the " He isn't smart enough card " Which is exactly what this clown was doing.
Look, the bottom line is, we all KNOW what Lefty can do, and what his many limitations are. Starting him in any pre-season games will mean nothing to him growing, or showing more as a QB. But in Dixon's case, he can grow, and we can see what his strengths are against first-team defenses. And for anyone to ASSume that Dixon is some how not smart enough is ridiculous.

SO your previous knowledge of the subject makes his comment racist ?????? Thats your logic ? :noidea:

:rofl:

pete74
08-15-2010, 02:13 PM
everyone seems to make a big deal of Dixon not playing against the 1st team D but they need to remember that he also wasnt playing with 1st team offensive players as well. no matter what happens from here on out in the preseason, i feel Dixon should start. he gives our team the best chance to win. he can take off on any play and that will keep the defense honest

StainlessStill
08-15-2010, 02:20 PM
everyone seems to make a big deal of Dixon not playing against the 1st team D but they need to remember that he also wasnt playing with 1st team offensive players as well. no matter what happens from here on out in the preseason, i feel Dixon should start. he gives our team the best chance to win. he can take off on any play and that will keep the defense honest

My main concern is that at SOME point during the coarse of a game, he's going to have to step up in the pocket and deliver when the outside/inside lanes aren't there to take off.

He certainly has that dynamic of giving us a threat out of the backfield as well as bootlegs, but do you REALLY want your quarterback to take off often to risk getting decapitated by a linebacker or safety? I sure don't. Defense's will start to sniff that out and stack 9 guys in the box with a QB spy and come after him eventually. He's going to have to deliver downfield sooner or later which is still a question up in the air and is worrysome.

Arians even said they aren't putting that Wild Cat junk in just for Dixon to run and risk getting hurt like Ike Taylor's hit on White last season.

When it comes down to it, I like what both players have to offer that the other certainly doesn't have. I'm eager to see more from both QB's. This just makes me appreciate Ben THAT MUCH MORE.

diehardsteeler
08-15-2010, 02:45 PM
Arians even said they aren't putting that Wild Cat junk in just for Dixon to run and risk getting hurt like Ike Taylor's hit on White last season.


Thanks for the help with the quotes...I got it now...
__________________________________________________ ______________

That's why I'd like to see him run an entire series maybe twice a game. Since he can only do it as #2, before Ben returns...

That would be a better changeup the the Wildcat....but he'll have to make some throws next game to keep the D honest...

On another note did Batch have the look of a beaten puppy??? He just didn't look happy playing the last 4 min of a game...especially when he was warming up after the weather break at the end of Q2....

StainlessStill
08-15-2010, 02:52 PM
I actually feel really bad for Charlie. It's times like this that a true professional has to outshine the situation for the overall team and Charlie does just that. If his body didn't catch up to him and since he was injury prone the past two seasons, he could even be in the running for starting QB this season. He still has the tools to be a #2 in the NFL.

Even though his time as an NFL starting QB is long past due, he still gives that depth chart some props to look at. When your 4th string QB is Charlie Batch, a loyal and proven backup during his career here, then I'd say having Roethlisberger, Leftwhich, Dixon and Batch is one helluva impressive QB roster. Rare to even have ONE good backup in this league these days.

Who's behind Brady or Manning? Palmer? EXACTLY.

steeltheone
08-15-2010, 02:57 PM
If you remember in Ben's first year, did HE memorize, or utilized the entire playbook ? Cause if you think he did, again, see the " Idiotic " reference. :banging:[/QUOTE]

This is his third year with the same playbook. If he cannot use the entire playbook by now there is a problem.

Again, i was surprised to hear this. I really don't care who starts.

diehardsteeler
08-15-2010, 02:57 PM
True....hard to believe we'll cut one 5 weeks in...

I like the applause he got from the crowd...great to see the homegrown guys get appreciated....

StainlessStill
08-15-2010, 03:07 PM
I really don't care who starts

Whichever may be, I will be confident in our coaching staff's decision and cheer as loud no matter who it is. We as fans have to rally around that, esp week 1 @ home against Atlanta.

Busforever
08-15-2010, 03:31 PM
The main argument I see to start Dixon over Leftwich is "that's why we drafted him". I mean, if we don't let Dixon play when our QB is out and there's 16 games left until playoffs, when we will let him play? That's a typical opportunity to see what the young guy can give.

I think Tomlin is more open about it than what he shows. He gives the keys to the veteran first, and says to Dixon "you have to earn your job over Leftwich". Let's see if the kid can compete on 3 more games and take the job, not just wait for it to come!

PhantomJB93
08-15-2010, 03:37 PM
I was okay with starting Byron until last night. Byron didnt necessarily play HORRIBLE but Dixon, regardless if he was playing backups, showed that he can indeed throw the ball and lead a drive down the field. I believe Dixon has a lot to learn, he needs to learn to throw a bit more because there were a few occasions where he had an easy throw to a receiver and ran it instead for a shorter gain (one example that immediately comes to mind was where Emmanuel Sanders was WIDE open and likely had a huge TD play but Dixon scrambled for 8 yards), but other than that I agree that he needs to start week 1. I think most people, like myself, wanted Byron to start because hes experienced and he played well for us 2 years ago...while this is true, it took me until last night to realize that 2 years is a LONG time for a football player, and the people expecting Byron to come in and play even decent will probably be surprised when he singlehandedly kills a lot of our drives.

Nadroj 20
08-15-2010, 03:51 PM
Wow.

People can have an opinion and state it in a classy way. When you have to insult people and bring stuff unrelated to football in the argument that is very low.

Just something I noticed and wanted to point out.

supa_fly_steeler
08-15-2010, 04:07 PM
Wow.

People can have an opinion and state it in a classy way. When you have to insult people and bring stuff unrelated to football in the argument that is very low.

Just something I noticed and wanted to point out.

nobody really cares, why do u guys come back and post here... be gone back to planet steelers... obviously you guys are still crying over spilled milk

lionslicer
08-15-2010, 04:58 PM
Your logic is Idiotic. Not to mention " Racist " Who says Dion isnot sma enough. He played against a top-3 defense last year in their park on Monday night, and moved the ball, and put us in a situation where we could win. Yeah maybe last year he only took in a few plays cause he was never practiced with the first team, and was a last second replacement for an Injured Ben. If you remember in Ben's first year, did HE memorize, or utilized the entire playbook ? Cause if you think he did, again, see the " Idiotic " reference. :banging:

Um Tomlin, Arians and the quarterback coach said he hasn't been able to learn the playbook to their standards atleast.. maybe I should have used better wording... Point is, I'm RELAYING the message, Steeler coaches said this themselves, if you think this is racist, go write them an angry letter of racism....

Fire Arians
08-15-2010, 06:17 PM
still early to say but dixon did look better than lefty. if it continues this preseason im sure he'll be named starter. however he's been inconsistent in practice so im sure that has something to do with it. you have to look good all the time to be starter, especially as the young guy

scsteeler
08-15-2010, 07:33 PM
All we need is for someone to give us a winning chance until Ben gets Back. If Batch was not so injury prone he would be the guy to start no doubt. Dixon gives us a Better Shot if the O-line does not improve.

Byron well if you listen to his comments after the game Hell he is just happy to be back with the Steelers.

Wallace108
08-15-2010, 07:46 PM
If it was up to me, I'd start Batch.
:popcorn:

whatdoiknow
08-15-2010, 07:48 PM
Um Tomlin, Arians and the quarterback coach said he hasn't been able to learn the playbook to their standards atleast.. maybe I should have used better wording... Point is, I'm RELAYING the message, Steeler coaches said this themselves, if you think this is racist, go write them an angry letter of racism....



Please show me ONE Quote from Tomlin, or anyone else that says that Dixon hasn't been able to learn the playbook to their standards...just one. Cause if you can't find it and POST it here. You have ZERO credibility. I'll be waiting right here by my computer ALL NIGHT tonight!



Not going anywhere " Hommie " Just waiting on you!

Wallace108
08-15-2010, 07:54 PM
Tomlin won't start Dixon because he's a racist? :doh:

Nadroj 20
08-15-2010, 08:20 PM
nobody really cares, why do u guys come back and post here... be gone back to planet steelers... obviously you guys are still crying over spilled milk

:doh:


Funny how you are the one that replies to this post.

Hirsch
08-15-2010, 08:29 PM
Nope, you're actually right. (For the record, you're allowed to have your opinion based on what you seen you know. As you can see, if you disagree with some characters and their thoughts they go apeshit.)

Dixon looked outstanding compared to Leftwhich's performance. But it goes deeper than numbers. You must understand the circumstance of the pre-season and going up against a teams underclassman versus the starting units.

Dixon looked great, but he still showed signs of immaturity in the pocket. It's all fine and dandy watching him run around in pre-season, but if and when the season does come and if he gets the nod somewhere during the rotation, something tells me he won't be running it like that against a starting elite defense. Would you REALLY want Dixon to be running all over the place just waiting to get splattered? He's going to have to show me with his passing game, which I'm sure he will.

I agree he does need to learn too throw the ball from the pocket. But I would rather see him scramble than take a sack. In a nut shell I can't wait for BEN to return.:tt02:

Hirsch
08-15-2010, 08:38 PM
Whichever may be, I will be confident in our coaching staff's decision and cheer as loud no matter who it is. We as fans have to rally around that, esp week 1 @ home against Atlanta.

Could not agree more.

rich4eagle
08-15-2010, 08:59 PM
Cause the simple fact is...Lefty Sucks!! I mean when he is in the game, the other teams Defense just tee's off on him cause he is so slow, and has no escape ability whatsoever! Also considering Flozell Adams looks so horrible, we NEED a QB who can scramble out of trouble once Adams man passes him faster than " Paris Hilton " can say YES to Sex! :applaudit:


Please Tomlin,,,grow a Brain!! And start Dixon!!

Well, actually Lefty has done well when called upon, so your comment sucks. Meanwhile, Dixon excites me, has ingredients for success.........:tt04::tt02::tt03::tt::wave::hatso ff:

Lock Out
08-15-2010, 10:02 PM
I don't wanna see Dixon start. I had too many Kordell flashbacks last night, thank you very much.

lionslicer
08-15-2010, 10:26 PM
Please show me ONE Quote from Tomlin, or anyone else that says that Dixon hasn't been able to learn the playbook to their standards...just one. Cause if you can't find it and POST it here. You have ZERO credibility. I'll be waiting right here by my computer ALL NIGHT tonight!



Not going anywhere " Hommie " Just waiting on you!

There is no quotes because coaches aren't stupid enough to say anything in public for anyone to publically record and have come back to them. But I heard reporters saying the steeler's coaching staff including tomlin saying that Dixon has a hard time grasping the play calling and amount of plays in the playbook and drastically have to down the the amount of plays they can tell him. But they didn't say it had to do with him being black, but it has to do with him being young and not used to the playcalling in the NFL.
Plays in the NFL are verbally 3 times longer than plays in college. A run up the middle in college might be "Roger 35" But in the NFL it could be as long as "Run tiger 34 double michael gap terrence" So him not being used to memorizing such long plays is a downfall for him at the moment.
I really don't feel like searching for quotes from reporters, I have a life.
But here's a short quote from august 2nd

"Dixon has precious little experience. He has an inferior grasp on the playbook, perhaps an inferior football mind."

But trust me, I watc NFL network all the time and ESPN, and seen interviews about the Steelers about them talking about Dixon's innability to learn plays.
ITS NOT BECAUSE HE'S BLACK AND STUPID. It's because he isn't used to being in the NFL. I'm done defending myself, I'm not racist. I could be black, like you woud know or even ask, you all just assume the worst...

whatdoiknow
08-15-2010, 10:26 PM
I don't wanna see Dixon start. I had too many Kordell flashbacks last night, thank you very much.



You're dumb! Dixon is nothing like Kordell. Dixon was easily the BEST QB in college ball before he got hurt. Kordell was not even a 50 % pass competion QB at Colorado. He was a great Athlete, and the steelers took him to be a " Gimmick " type player. Dixon is miles ahead as a QB then Kordell. Dixon has just never been given a true chance to run with the first team. And when he was thrusted into a startomg role against Baltimore...Dixon performed. He put us in a position to win. The defense is what let us down son. Please, go LEARN something before you post and make a fool of yourself! :doh:

supa_fly_steeler
08-15-2010, 10:34 PM
:doh:


Funny how you are the one that replies to this post.

oh and how i would guess, one adult who probably has children takes the time to get a false account, then spam all over the forums, It shows what people do in their free time.

stupid americans, I've learned that not only your presidents are stupid, but the very fanbase I support, has some of the most retarded people possible.

I am glad I also root for two lowly crap organizations, because at least the fans are not so stupid.

JackHammer
08-15-2010, 10:43 PM
If our o-line keeps playing they way they are, they should probably start DD. My logic is that they're gonna get Lefty knocked out of the game and Dixon will eventually be in regardless. So you may as well just start Dixon from Week 1.

Lock Out
08-15-2010, 10:45 PM
You're dumb! Dixon is nothing like Kordell. Dixon was easily the BEST QB in college ball before he got hurt. Kordell was not even a 50 % pass competion QB at Colorado.

I'm dumb? Listen up schmuck. I suggest you do a little more research on Kordell's college career and compare it with Dixon's before passing judgment on my intelligence.

Please, go LEARN something before you post and make a fool of yourself! :doh:

See my above comment, dickweed.
:popcorn:

Fifty8
08-15-2010, 11:04 PM
If our o-line keeps playing they way they are, they should probably start DD. My logic is that they're gonna get Lefty knocked out of the game and Dixon will eventually be in regardless. So you may as well just start Dixon from Week 1.

ditto

Our line does not pass block well, ask Ben. Dude make more plays out of nothing, scrambling for his life than any other QB in the league. Leftwich CAN'T do that. Our line's inability to pass protect requires a mobile QB, thus Dixon has to be the man. He impressed the hell out of me last year in Baltimore, until he threw the pic in OT. I say give the kid the job - hell, Lefty couldn't beat out two rooks in Tampa last year.

Nadroj 20
08-15-2010, 11:25 PM
oh and how i would guess, one adult who probably has children takes the time to get a false account, then spam all over the forums, It shows what people do in their free time.

stupid americans, I've learned that not only your presidents are stupid, but the very fanbase I support, has some of the most retarded people possible.

I am glad I also root for two lowly crap organizations, because at least the fans are not so stupid.

You are the smartest person I know and know so much about football and the Steelers it puts everyone else to shame :thumbsup:


:rolleyes:

I aint ever coming back to this hell hole.

mikegrimey
08-15-2010, 11:35 PM
Superfly is just one of those dudes thats so frustrated by his own inability to function in life that he resorts to simple name calling whenever anybody threatens his narrow view of the world.
Just scan one of his numerous posts and you'll see repeated mentions of retardations, rape, sodomy, suicide etc.
He must find it cathartic to attack people on the internet. One trick pony in the debate sense as well. His whole base for argument is "you're a retard go slit your wrists" or something banal like that.

SteelCityMom
08-15-2010, 11:37 PM
http://media.ebaumsworld.com/mediaFiles/picture/517631/698617.jpg

supa_fly_steeler
08-15-2010, 11:42 PM
You are the smartest person I know and know so much about football and the Steelers it puts everyone else to shame :thumbsup:


:rolleyes:

I aint ever coming back to this hell hole.

well good.... because your at steelers planet or whatever it's called... when you registered there, your not welcome back here, at least not by me....

mikegrimey

i dont really need to say much, but one trick pony is a really stupid reference to quote people to, because what have you done in your life to say who is who.

notice i dont say that, i tell them what to do

whatdoiknow
08-16-2010, 12:01 AM
Can we stop now ? Look, the bottom line is Tomlin is gonna make the decision. And he will have to live with it. If he goes with Lefty, even after a few more poor games, and we start off real bad and don't recover for the seasin because he chose Lefty over Dixon, then TRUST ME, Ole Tomlin is gonna be run out of town,,,or to the nearest tree with a few Hooded guys holding a Rope! Truse me, I KNOW Pittsburgh! It makes Mississippi in the mid-60's look like New York.



So my advice to Tomlin...tred carefully son!

Nadroj 20
08-16-2010, 10:30 AM
well good.... because your at steelers planet or whatever it's called... when you registered there, your not welcome back here, at least not by me....



i dont really need to say much, but one trick pony is a really stupid reference to quote people to, because what have you done in your life to say who is who.

notice i dont say that, i tell them what to do

Ok im going to make an exception and come back one more time lol

When I registered there I'm no longer welcomed there? Well I bet you anything that if i WANTED to stay here I would be welcomed because I actually bring something to all discussions.

Also ummm YOU registered over there but got BANNED because of your idiotic ways. So the only reason you say this is cause you aren't welcomed over there. :toofunny:

StillerzFreak
08-16-2010, 10:44 AM
My opinion is Dixon gives us a better chance to win. The argument that he is a running QB or a run first QB isn't necessarily a bad thing. When he did run he ran for some first downs so what's wrong with that? The weather condition when he was in weren't the best either so I'd rather have him run some of those plays then throw an INT. I hope they give him a fair shot to play with the starters to see what he can do with them and against the opposing starters.

The truth is tho, neither QB will be asked to go out and win ball games for us while Ben is out. They will just have to manage the game and throw the ball 20-25 times max. We will rely on our defense and running game. Both QB's will be using a limited playbook. I'd rather have a QB that can scramble for a few first downs back there, especially with our O-Line, Leftwich is a sitting duck back there. Hopefully we can stay alive while Ben is out and I believe Dixon gives us our best chance, but if Leftwich is the starter come week 1 I trust our coaches made the right decision.

GO STEELERS!

lvent
08-16-2010, 11:57 AM
Hi everyone, first time poster over here. Just some thoughts I had watching the game on Saturday :

Yes, Byron did look slow and old as did our offensive line. However we all must remember that the offense is usually much less prepared as a unit in regards to the defense. Its been this way for as long as I can remember football.

I did like what I saw from Dixon on Saturday, and to take it back even further what he did against the Raven's last year was commendable given their defense it was a brutal match-up to be thrown into the fire in my opinion. However we must remember that He was doing this against sub-par defenders. For me personally I would have been disappointed if he hadn't done as well given the likes of the players he was playing against.

I would love to see him get a decent shot with the first team, playing against a first team defense and see how the chips fall. For reasons unknown to me Tomlin seems to be against this. He probably has good reasoning as mentioned elsewhere in this thread he does see him every day in practice.

We all know what Byron is capable of, Dixon is still a wildcard. He does have a ton of upside but still needs some more time.

Rek
08-16-2010, 06:03 PM
Haven't posted in awhile....Anyway, I think Dixon should start leading into the season. If Adams and the OL continues to be weak, I'd rather have a QB with a weak arm and excellent escape/scrambling skills than one who stands like a statue. What good is a strong arm if you can't use it?

After all, they need a QB to win 4 games, not 16 games. Go with Dixon.

SteelKnight
08-16-2010, 09:01 PM
Tomlin said today that even if Leftwich starts, they still may run packages for Dixon during the first weeks. This is good because it wastes the opponents' time preparing.

Lock Out
08-16-2010, 09:30 PM
Can we stop now ? Look, the bottom line is Tomlin is gonna make the decision

So, have you looked into Kordell's college career yet? Not to be a jerk, but here's some quotes from you about me:

You're dumb! Dixon is nothing like Kordell.

Please, go LEARN something before you post and make a fool of yourself!

It's OK to disagree. But you didn't just disagree ... you attacked me personally. So, have you done your research yet?

whatdoiknow
08-16-2010, 09:39 PM
Yeah I did, and Kordell was below average. As where Dixon was the GUARANTEED Heisman Award winner.
So, are we LEARNING Yet ? Kordell never had anywhere near the QB skills as Dixon had. Just because both ran the ball does not mean they are simular. I guess that Means Tebow is a Korcdell-like player to ? Cause he ran more than BOTH Kordell and Dixon. It's about " Feel " for being a QB. Arm strength..( Which Dixon has a Cannon of an Arm )...and those unseen Intangables...( Like Young has )...Dixon is a winner, and gives a defense more to worry about. I mean I can see starting a podder like Leftwich IF he was a QB who has actually performed the past few years...but Lefty hasn't come close to performing even average. So how anyone can annoint that he should be the LOCK for our starting QB is just stupid.

Lock Out
08-16-2010, 10:02 PM
Yeah I did, and Kordell was below average. As where Dixon was the GUARANTEED Heisman Award winner.

Apparently you didn't do your research if you think Kordell was a below average quarterback in college. As far as Dixon being a Heisman candidate, let's take a look at the latest QBs to win the Hesiman going back to 1989:

Sam Bradford
Tim Tebow
Troy Smith
Matt Leinart
Jason White
Carson Palmer
Eric Crouch
Chris Weinke
Danny Wuerffel
Charlie Ward
Gino Torretta
Ty Detmer
Andre Ware

Your point is??

mikegrimey
08-16-2010, 11:14 PM
Ouch, that list of Heismann winners just reminded me once again of why I never go near college ball.

Talk about a pile of shit. Outside of Carson Palmer does anyone on that list have a playoff appearance?

Lock Out
08-16-2010, 11:22 PM
Ouch, that list of Heismann winners just reminded me once again of why I never go near college ball.

Talk about a pile of shit. Outside of Carson Palmer does anyone on that list have a playoff appearance?

Exactly, Mike. That's the point I'm trying to make. No one can say Dixon will be a solid NFL QB just because he was a Heisman candidate and probably would have won if he hadn't gotten hurt.

When we need Dixon, I hope he lights it up. I'm not saying Dixon can't do well in the NFL. But we certainly can't determine that based on what he did in college.

EDIT:
Oh, and one more thing for whatdoiknow ...
You said:

And when he was thrusted into a startomg role against Baltimore...Dixon performed. He put us in a position to win. The defense is what let us down son.

I missed this part of your original attack on me. I think you need to watch that game again. Dixon threw the interception that led to the Ravens win ... just sayin'.

StillerzFreak
08-17-2010, 08:37 AM
I missed this part of your original attack on me. I think you need to watch that game again. Dixon threw the interception that led to the Ravens win ... just sayin'.

Yeah he threw the INT in OT but thats not why we lost the game. You sound like a hater now. That game should have never gone to OT, but some how thats Dixon's fault? HATER. No football game is won or lost on one play in any game.

cloppbeast
08-17-2010, 09:02 AM
I think opposing defenses would rather see Leftwich than Dixon.

whatdoiknow
08-17-2010, 09:27 AM
I think opposing defenses would rather see Leftwich than Dixon.



Thank you very much " Captain Obvious! " :tt03: And no I don't mean that as a Insult. I'm serious. I mean lets see, given out O-Line, would we..( Opposing Defense )..
rather face a slow-moving..( 6.78 forty time AT BEST )..in Leftwich. Or a young, stronger Armed QB in Dixon who I GUARANTEE you can " Punk " either Mike Wallace or Ike Taylor in a forty Yd dash...Hmmm, that's a tough one huh :noidea:

SteelKnight
08-17-2010, 07:57 PM
Dixon threw the interception that led to the Ravens win ... just sayin'.

Yeah...and honestly, if he didn't throw that pick, the Steelers would have been in the playoffs. I try not to think about it.

Another can't do over is Sweed's catch against Cinci. If he catches that, the Steelers finish 10-6, win the division, and make the playoffs. We were starting to play well so who knows how far we could have gone.

SteelKnight
08-17-2010, 08:02 PM
Yeah he threw the INT in OT but thats not why we lost the game. You sound like a hater now. That game should have never gone to OT, but some how thats Dixon's fault? HATER. No football game is won or lost on one play in any game.

I disagree. It sounds good but I just disagree. It was the kind of INT. Had he just thrown a regular one where the defense could come back, fine but the Ravens were in field goal range after the pick...no good. Perhaps we would not have been in it without him but he did lose it for us.

SteelKnight
08-17-2010, 08:04 PM
Thank you very much " Captain Obvious! " :tt03: And no I don't mean that as a Insult. I'm serious. I mean lets see, given out O-Line, would we..( Opposing Defense )..
rather face a slow-moving..( 6.78 forty time AT BEST )..in Leftwich. Or a young, stronger Armed QB in Dixon who I GUARANTEE you can " Punk " either Mike Wallace or Ike Taylor in a forty Yd dash...Hmmm, that's a tough one huh :noidea:

I don't know what you mean by punk but Dixon is slower than those two. He's fast for a QB but that's it.

SteelKnight
08-20-2010, 12:51 PM
Dennis Dixon continued to practice almost exclusively with the third team, and that has Hines Ward a little worried. "I haven't even caught a ball from Dennis yet," Ward said. "You would like to see Dennis get more reps from that perspective."

So much for the starting job being open...

LVSteelersfan
08-20-2010, 02:56 PM
Dennis Dixon continued to practice almost exclusively with the third team, and that has Hines Ward a little worried. "I haven't even caught a ball from Dennis yet," Ward said. "You would like to see Dennis get more reps from that perspective."

So much for the starting job being open...

Dixon sealed his fate last week when he kept taking off running instead of going through his progressions and finding those open receivers. Sorry, but that will not hack it against NFL defenses. It takes them about 1 game to figure him out and he will have nowhere to run. I am not a huge Leftoversandwich fan but he is the obvious choice right now for anyone who will just think about it a little bit. Bottom line is Dixon needs another year or two to learn how to play QB and not scat back. We don't need another Kordell. If not, it is time to draft another QB.

whatdoiknow
08-20-2010, 03:13 PM
Dixon sealed his fate last week when he kept taking off running instead of going through his progressions and finding those open receivers. Sorry, but that will not hack it against NFL defenses. It takes them about 1 game to figure him out and he will have nowhere to run. I am not a huge Leftoversandwich fan but he is the obvious choice right now for anyone who will just think about it a little bit. Bottom line is Dixon needs another year or two to learn how to play QB and not scat back. We don't need another Kordell. If not, it is time to draft another QB.




Have defenses figured out Vince Young yet ? Anyways, even if what you think is true....and it's not. But even if it was, how does one Improve on that ? How would Dixon learn to look for his WR's ?...Maybe by actually PLAYING and practicing with the first team, and getting Reps ? Also, do you think Dixon running, and getting constant 1st downs and moving the offense and scoring, even if it is by running isn't better than Lefty, and his cement feet getting sacked time after time, and NEVER moving our offense ? Cause that what HE is clearly showing in his time here.
So I guess you're saying you would rather NOT have the offense MOVE..( And score )
under Dixon. And would rather have constant 3 and outs with Lefty.



Okay, I get it now!

PhantomJB93
08-20-2010, 03:19 PM
If Dixon learns to be a bit more patient in the pocket and let plays develop before immediately scrambling for 5-10 yards, he would BY FAR be a better choice than Leftwich. I think if he passes a bit more tomorrow, Tomlin would be foolish not to give him some first team reps. But until then, it did irk me quite a bit when he had open receivers last week and instead took off running numerous times. I think Leftwich is being severely overrated by a lot of Steeler fans (as is Dixon), 2 years is a long time and he's not going to look as good as he did when he stepped in in '08, I think if we go Leftwich things will get REAL ugly REAL fast, but Dixon should still not start IMO until he shows more patience while passing.

pete74
08-20-2010, 05:52 PM
i like dixon and agree he should be the starter. he gives our team a much better chance to win then someone who got benched in tampa last year after losing the 1st 3 games. i agree dixon should look to pass before running but i would much rather see him run for 10 yards then take a 10 yard sack.

dixon is way more mobile then leftwich and his arm is alot more acurate. if we dont start him then i honestly feel the coaches are either favoring leftwich or have a grudge against dixon

LVSteelersfan
08-20-2010, 06:04 PM
I really wouldn't mind Dixon to be the starter in some ways, but in others I don't. I agree you actually have to play to learn to read defenses but he should have been learning that somewhat in training camp practices. He didn't act like he had any clue out there when he kept taking off running. He is not Vince Young by any stretch either. Regardless of which one starts we will be lucky to be .500 by the time our "REAL" QB gets back. Both of them are lacking immensely in what it takes to be a starting NFL QB. If we had to go a whole season with either one of them we would be picking in the top 10 in next year's draft.

Have defenses figured out Vince Young yet ? Anyways, even if what you think is true....and it's not. But even if it was, how does one Improve on that ? How would Dixon learn to look for his WR's ?...Maybe by actually PLAYING and practicing with the first team, and getting Reps ? Also, do you think Dixon running, and getting constant 1st downs and moving the offense and scoring, even if it is by running isn't better than Lefty, and his cement feet getting sacked time after time, and NEVER moving our offense ? Cause that what HE is clearly showing in his time here.
So I guess you're saying you would rather NOT have the offense MOVE..( And score )
under Dixon. And would rather have constant 3 and outs with Lefty.



Okay, I get it now!

SteelKnight
08-20-2010, 10:57 PM
i like dixon and agree he should be the starter. he gives our team a much better chance to win then someone who got benched in tampa last year after losing the 1st 3 games. i agree dixon should look to pass before running but i would much rather see him run for 10 yards then take a 10 yard sack.

dixon is way more mobile then leftwich and his arm is alot more acurate. if we dont start him then i honestly feel the coaches are either favoring leftwich or have a grudge against dixon

Apparently his arm hasn't been more accurate at camp.

SteelKnight
08-20-2010, 11:27 PM
http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-preseason/09000d5d819db667/Leftwich-or-Dixon

Wow...Rod has a point.

steeltheone
08-21-2010, 03:11 AM
i like dixon and agree he should be the starter. he gives our team a much better chance to win then someone who got benched in tampa last year after losing the 1st 3 games. i agree dixon should look to pass before running but i would much rather see him run for 10 yards then take a 10 yard sack.

dixon is way more mobile then leftwich and his arm is alot more acurate. if we dont start him then i honestly feel the coaches are either favoring leftwich or have a grudge against dixon

We signed Mcfadden who bombed out on Arizona....El who was average at best in DC...plus Foote who Detroit did not want back, and you question lefty...Hmmm?

SteelKnight
08-21-2010, 08:11 AM
Micael Vick is an idiot. He is just not that smart of a person thus he had problems learing to read defenses and make adjustment. After all these years, he still looks like an amateur. The only reason people like him is he can run. I hope Dixon does not take this mold like Tavaris Jackson.

Dixon needs to develop more in the mold of a Steve Young or Randel Cunningham...mobile yet passing is the priority.

Downbylaw
08-22-2010, 07:54 AM
I think Dixon is talented but doesnt have the savvy of Leftwich. I dont know why some of you are so down on the guy. I'm not saying Byron Leftwich is better than Ben but he did outplay Ben in 08. Same line, same team but he got the job done.

vs. Skins- Leftwich 7-10 129 yards 1 TD 145 rating
- Big Ben 5-17 50 1 INT 15.1 rating


vs. Browns Leftwich- 7-12 80 yards 78.5 rating 1 Td run
Ben -9-14 110 yards 1 INT 58.6 rating

vs. Eagles Big Ben 13-25 131 yards 1 INT 50.6 rating
Leftwich 4-7 60 yards 85.4 rating


Again, not saying he is better than Ben but the man has more experience than Dixon. Yes, Dixon brings an electricity to the field that I cant deny but WHAT IF, Dixon starts and plays lights out (Kurt Warner Lights out, when Trent Green got hurt) Then Ben comes back in week 6, then we are going to have a full fledged QB controversey. Remember how enamored Packer fans were with Majikowski, he got hurt, enter Favre and Majik was never heard of again.

desertsteel
08-22-2010, 09:32 AM
Leftwich is a good QB, but he is injury prone. Here's how it will play out........ Leftwich starts but gets knocked out by game 2 and Dixon comes in and plays well.

Need4spd
08-22-2010, 09:40 AM
I think Dixon is talented but doesnt have the savvy of Leftwich. I dont know why some of you are so down on the guy. I'm not saying Byron Leftwich is better than Ben but he did outplay Ben in 08. Same line, same team but he got the job done.

vs. Skins- Leftwich 7-10 129 yards 1 TD 145 rating
- Big Ben 5-17 50 1 INT 15.1 rating


vs. Browns Leftwich- 7-12 80 yards 78.5 rating 1 Td run
Ben -9-14 110 yards 1 INT 58.6 rating

vs. Eagles Big Ben 13-25 131 yards 1 INT 50.6 rating
Leftwich 4-7 60 yards 85.4 rating


Again, not saying he is better than Ben but the man has more experience than Dixon. Yes, Dixon brings an electricity to the field that I cant deny but WHAT IF, Dixon starts and plays lights out (Kurt Warner Lights out, when Trent Green got hurt) Then Ben comes back in week 6, then we are going to have a full fledged QB controversey. Remember how enamored Packer fans were with Majikowski, he got hurt, enter Favre and Majik was never heard of again.

I mean this with all due respect, but the above statement is absolutely dribble. I won't even dignify the isolated games/stats you reference with a response. Are you actually trying to argue that Leftwich should get the job over Dixon because there is less of a chance of a QB controversy when Ben comes back? Ben Roethlisberger, the two time Super Bowl champion Ben Roethlisberger. The Ben Roethlisberger that has a very good chance of winding up in the Hall of Fame as long as he maintains a pulse for the next 8-10 years of his career... Sure thing. I'm sorry, but I think that really is the saddest argument I've ever heard.

Truth is I'm not 100% sold on Dixon, but I'm nowhere near sold on Leftwich. If tomorrow were opening day and I had to pick right now, Dixon gives me a lot more confidence. Therefore I would give the job to Dixon. Having said that, tomorrow isn't opening day and we have the luxury of having two more preseason games left, so I will be watching the two of them very closely.

cloppbeast
08-22-2010, 09:40 AM
We can debate who should start till the cows come home, but I think we can all agree that Dixon deserves a shot to play with the first team. Despite what Tomlin has said, this doesn't seem like an open competition.

jjpro11
08-22-2010, 09:47 AM
We signed Mcfadden who bombed out on Arizona....El who was average at best in DC...plus Foote who Detroit did not want back, and you question lefty...Hmmm?

Bmac did just fine in our system in the past and will do just fine again. we got him for practically nothing.. would you rather have Gay or an unproven second year player starting at CB?

the Steelers don't know what they have in Brown or Sanders, so they got a serviceable slot receiver in ARE, who also knows the organization. they signed Battle for cheap around the same time too, so whoever works out best, will play.

Foote signed a one year deal with Detroit.. the Lions are a young team and Foote was not in their future plans. our run defense up the middle was weaker than ever last year. sure, losing Aaron Smith didn't help, but Foote has always been a good, reliable run stuffer... he already knows the complex system and is a locker room favorite.

Downbylaw
08-22-2010, 10:00 AM
I mean this with all due respect, but the above statement is absolutely dribble. I won't even dignify the isolated games/stats you reference with a response. Are you actually trying to argue that Leftwich should get the job over Dixon because there is less of a chance of a QB controversy when Ben comes back? Ben Roethlisberger, the two time Super Bowl champion Ben Roethlisberger. The Ben Roethlisberger that has a very good chance of winding up in the Hall of Fame as long as he maintains a pulse for the next 8-10 years of his career... Sure thing. I'm sorry, but I think that really is the saddest argument I've ever heard.

Truth is I'm not 100% sold on Dixon, but I'm nowhere near sold on Leftwich. If tomorrow were opening day and I had to pick right now, Dixon gives me a lot more confidence. Therefore I would give the job to Dixon. Having said that, tomorrow isn't opening day and we have the luxury of having two more preseason games left, so I will be watching the two of them very closely.


I'm not sold on either of them either but the truth of the matter is that WE ARE THE STEELERS. It doesnt take much from the QB for us to be good with our defense. I'm sorry, is this one of those Steeler sites where people get offended when you say something displeasing about Ben Roethlisberger?

So you dont think Ben could lose his job? I bet Drew Bledsoe felt the same way before he lost it to Brady and again lost it to Romo. 2 Time Super Bowl winning Qb, true enough but Ben had putrid stats in those 2 Super Bowls, its not like he was the Primary reason we won. Try ONE TD pass and THREE ints in 2 Super Bowl games.

Ben has team accolades, not individual ones and last I checked you need numbers to get in the Hall of Fame. Ben is no Bradshaw (Despite his Steeler records). Please dont make me post Bens stats against top defenses, trust me it is not good.

Nowhere did I say Leftwich or Dixon were as good as Ben and you get all bent out of shape. I listed the Stats of the games in 08. I didnt lie or fabricate one stat. Fact is Lefty outplayed Ben in 08 (small sample size) is he better? No. We cant agree on that? Shiiiish

Downbylaw
08-22-2010, 10:02 AM
We can debate who should start till the cows come home, but I think we can all agree that Dixon deserves a shot to play with the first team. Despite what Tomlin has said, this doesn't seem like an open competition.

He wont get a shot at playing with the 1st team due to Ben needs reps. What are you suggesting, that we play Ben with the 3rd team? Wont happen

SlackerCSB
08-22-2010, 10:03 AM
Again, not saying he is better than Ben but the man has more experience than Dixon. Yes, Dixon brings an electricity to the field that I cant deny but WHAT IF, Dixon starts and plays lights out (Kurt Warner Lights out, when Trent Green got hurt) Then Ben comes back in week 6, then we are going to have a full fledged QB controversey. Remember how enamored Packer fans were with Majikowski, he got hurt, enter Favre and Majik was never heard of again.

Mr. Downbylaw, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.

Downbylaw
08-22-2010, 10:03 AM
Bmac did just fine in our system in the past and will do just fine again. we got him for practically nothing.. would you rather have Gay or an unproven second year player starting at CB?

the Steelers don't know what they have in Brown or Sanders, so they got a serviceable slot receiver in ARE, who also knows the organization. they signed Battle for cheap around the same time too, so whoever works out best, will play.

Foote signed a one year deal with Detroit.. the Lions are a young team and Foote was not in their future plans. our run defense up the middle was weaker than ever last year. sure, losing Aaron Smith didn't help, but Foote has always been a good, reliable run stuffer... he already knows the complex system and is a locker room favorite.

Agree 100%

Downbylaw
08-22-2010, 10:05 AM
Mr. Downbylaw, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.

Why dont you just say "I hope it doesnt happen" that would be better. To say it CANT happen would be erroneous. Thx for the Mercy on my soul, I need it.

Steelers17
08-22-2010, 10:10 AM
"Ben has team accolades, not individual ones and last I checked you need numbers to get in the Hall of Fame. Ben is no Bradshaw (Despite his Steeler records). Please dont make me post Bens stats against top defenses, trust me it is not good."

I see where you are going here! Our franchise QB’s much love offered/production index is reportedly extraordinarily high.

cloppbeast
08-22-2010, 10:12 AM
He wont get a shot at playing with the 1st team due to Ben needs reps. What are you suggesting, that we play Ben with the 3rd team? Wont happen

That's exactly what I would suggest actually, whether it would help or not. Ben taking snaps with the first team now will help him very little in 2 months. Might as well let Dixon play with the starters to see how he does, but my guess is that Tomlin isn't interested on how Dixon will do against the first team.

IMO, Tomlin knew who he would start the day he traded for Leftwich. Since then, he has just been dangling a carrot.

Downbylaw
08-22-2010, 10:18 AM
I agree, Ben is screwing up the rotation with his reps (because he wont play for 7 more weeks) but BEN SHOULD NOT play with the third teamers bro. What happens if he gets hurt?

cloppbeast
08-22-2010, 10:21 AM
I agree, Ben is screwing up the rotation with his reps (because he wont play for 7 more weeks) but BEN SHOULD NOT play with the third teamers bro. What happens if he gets hurt?

Is he more likely to get hurt with the 3rd teamers? I don't get what you're saying.

Downbylaw
08-22-2010, 10:27 AM
Yes he is. Why dont you see Hines, Harrison or Polamalu playing with the 3rd teamers? For obvious reasons. If I were Tomlin I would just sacrifice Ben's reps and let Dixon and Leftwich get the work. We have 2 more preseason games, Ben has a 4 game suspension, plus the bye. We get Ben work in preseason and he sits for 5 weeks, enter rust. Makes no sense to get him reps now. None.

Downbylaw
08-22-2010, 10:29 AM
Or let Ben get his work in the 4th preseason game, when the Starters sit most of the game. I dont know, it just seems fishy that Dixon doesnt get any looks with the 1st team.

Need4spd
08-22-2010, 10:51 AM
I'm not sold on either of them either but the truth of the matter is that WE ARE THE STEELERS. It doesnt take much from the QB for us to be good with our defense. I'm sorry, is this one of those Steeler sites where people get offended when you say something displeasing about Ben Roethlisberger?

So you dont think Ben could lose his job? I bet Drew Bledsoe felt the same way before he lost it to Brady and again lost it to Romo. 2 Time Super Bowl winning Qb, true enough but Ben had putrid stats in those 2 Super Bowls, its not like he was the Primary reason we won. Try ONE TD pass and THREE ints in 2 Super Bowl games.

Ben has team accolades, not individual ones and last I checked you need numbers to get in the Hall of Fame. Ben is no Bradshaw (Despite his Steeler records). Please dont make me post Bens stats against top defenses, trust me it is not good.

Nowhere did I say Leftwich or Dixon were as good as Ben and you get all bent out of shape. I listed the Stats of the games in 08. I didnt lie or fabricate one stat. Fact is Lefty outplayed Ben in 08 (small sample size) is he better? No. We cant agree on that? Shiiiish

Offended and bent out of shape I am not. You are entitled to your opinion, no matter how outrageous. This isn't the 1970's though, and it does take good quarterback play in order to be successful in today's NFL no matter how good your defense is. You think it's just a coincidence that the Steelers have won two Superbowls during Ben's career? Not hardly. In Super Bowl XL I will concede that they won almost in spite of his play. In XLIII however, he most certainly was one of, if not the biggest reasons they won. That final game winning drive was the stuff legends are made of. I couldn't care less about his stats anyway, I really couldn't. The bottom line is the guy puts W's on the board. To your point though, his stats aren't as bad as you make them out to be. Besides, I can think of a number of Steelers who are currently in the Hall of Fame due to their "team accodolades," and not their individual stats. Super Bowl rings DO get you in the Hall of Fame, especially at the QB position.

To compare Ben with Majikowski and/or Bledsoe is absolutely laughable, so let's not go there. There are certain players in this league who are in fact exempt from having their jobs taken away due to an absence such as suspension or injury, and yes Roethlisberger is one of them. He is a proven winner, end of story.

Downbylaw
08-22-2010, 11:11 AM
Offended and bent out of shape I am not. You are entitled to your opinion, no matter how outrageous. This isn't the 1970's though, and it does take good quarterback play in order to be successful in today's NFL no matter how good your defense is. You think it's just a coincidence that the Steelers have won two Superbowls during Ben's career? Not hardly. In Super Bowl XL I will concede that they won almost in spite of his play. In XLIII however, he most certainly was one of, if not the biggest reasons they won. That final game winning drive was the stuff legends are made of. I couldn't care less about his stats anyway, I really couldn't. The bottom line is the guy puts W's on the board. To your point though, his stats aren't as bad as you make them out to be. Besides, I can think of a number of Steelers who are currently in the Hall of Fame due to their "team accodolades," and not their individual stats. Super Bowl rings DO get you in the Hall of Fame, especially at the QB position.

To compare Ben with Majikowski and/or Bledsoe is absolutely laughable, so let's not go there. There are certain players in this league who are in fact exempt from having their jobs taken away due to an absence such as suspension or injury, and yes Roethlisberger is one of them. He is a proven winner, end of story.

How good was Trent Dilfer? How about Brad Johnson (bucs). Here we got with the same old tired comments. Bro, How did Ben do in SB 40? How did we do? WE WON. We were kicking the Cards *sses 20-7 with Ben passing for SITXY EIGHT YARDS. HELLOOOOOO. We should have blown the Cards out but the offense was putt putting along. It shouldnt have came to a 4th qtr comeback. If you have a dominant defense you have no business "coming back". Elway had to comeback because he didnt have a D. Was Terry Bradshaw a comeback artist with the best D in NFL History? HECK NO. Didnt need to comeback because he did his job consistently. When the last time we have scored 40 points in the Roethlisberger era? How come we dont blow teams out? Is it Arians? Is it Tomlin? Cowher? Whiz? How about bad execution and not enough consistency from the Qb. Ben is good, WHEN HE WANTS TO BE GOOD.

Of course you couldnt care about his stats because the defeat your arguement. Ben happens to play on a great team, which has a defense that allows him EXTRA opportunities to finally get it right. Why do we lead teams in Time of Possession? Is it because our offense turns out long drives? NO. Its because the DEFENSE keeps giving us the ball back. Do the research and see how many extra opportunities our offense have over the opponent. Oh by the way, when an inexperienced Dixon started against the Ravens, we WON the Time Of Possesion battle that game as well. Was it due to Dixon or the extra opportunities afforded by the defense?

If you think Ben is expempt from losing his job you have on blinders. I bet Bill Parcells, Jimmy Johnson and Tom Landry thought that as well. This is the NFL sir, nothing is guaranteed. Ben was almost benched in 08 or did you forget? You are correct there are several Steelers in the Hall of Fame with team accolades. However, those individuals won FOUR Super Bowls. Far cry from two. Jim Mcmahon has 2 rings, ask him how thats working out for him in regards to the Hall. Lastly, Bledsoe had more TD passes than Ben after his 6th season 128-127. I see you are the type of guy who has blinders on.

Need4spd
08-22-2010, 12:12 PM
How good was Trent Dilfer? How about Brad Johnson (bucs). Here we got with the same old tired comments. Bro, How did Ben do in SB 40? How did we do? WE WON. We were kicking the Cards *sses 20-7 with Ben passing for SITXY EIGHT YARDS. HELLOOOOOO. We should have blown the Cards out but the offense was putt putting along. It shouldnt have came to a 4th qtr comeback. If you have a dominant defense you have no business "coming back". Elway had to comeback because he didnt have a D. Was Terry Bradshaw a comeback artist with the best D in NFL History? HECK NO. Didnt need to comeback because he did his job consistently. When the last time we have scored 40 points in the Roethlisberger era? How come we dont blow teams out? Is it Arians? Is it Tomlin? Cowher? Whiz? How about bad execution and not enough consistency from the Qb. Ben is good, WHEN HE WANTS TO BE GOOD.

Of course you couldnt care about his stats because the defeat your arguement. Ben happens to play on a great team, which has a defense that allows him EXTRA opportunities to finally get it right. Why do we lead teams in Time of Possession? Is it because our offense turns out long drives? NO. Its because the DEFENSE keeps giving us the ball back. Do the research and see how many extra opportunities our offense have over the opponent. Oh by the way, when an inexperienced Dixon started against the Ravens, we WON the Time Of Possesion battle that game as well. Was it due to Dixon or the extra opportunities afforded by the defense?

If you think Ben is expempt from losing his job you have on blinders. I bet Bill Parcells, Jimmy Johnson and Tom Landry thought that as well. This is the NFL sir, nothing is guaranteed. Ben was almost benched in 08 or did you forget? You are correct there are several Steelers in the Hall of Fame with team accolades. However, those individuals won FOUR Super Bowls. Far cry from two. Jim Mcmahon has 2 rings, ask him how thats working out for him in regards to the Hall. Lastly, Bledsoe had more TD passes than Ben after his 6th season 128-127. I see you are the type of guy who has blinders on.

Now you want to compare him to Trent Dilfer and Brad Johnson... Yeah okay, this debate no longer warrants a response. The arguments and comparisons you make by in large have little to no relevance. Then again maybe you're right, and it is a total coincidence that the Steelers have won two Super Bowls under Roethlisberger. As for the type of guy I am... I am the type of guy who cares about one statistic and one statistic only, and that of course is wins. Not only does he put up wins, but he brings home championships. Oh that's right, just a coincidence.

SteelKnight
08-22-2010, 01:06 PM
Yes he is. Why dont you see Hines, Harrison or Polamalu playing with the 3rd teamers? For obvious reasons. If I were Tomlin I would just sacrifice Ben's reps and let Dixon and Leftwich get the work. We have 2 more preseason games, Ben has a 4 game suspension, plus the bye. We get Ben work in preseason and he sits for 5 weeks, enter rust. Makes no sense to get him reps now. None.

I think Ben needs reps. It shakes off some rust. It is boring going against your own defense all the time. You saw that INT. That was a good mistake. Now next time when he is in that situation he will remember not to underthrow Wallace.

Ben needs to develop chemistry with ARE (if that will be the slot guy) and Pouncey (if that will be the center). He needs to test out some of the new wrinkles they put in the offense.

Putting him in there with the second team will just make him look bad and hurt confidence. They need to see what he will look like so they can know what to adjust. The only way to do this is with the first teamers.

IMO they should play the first team line for 3 quarters (they could use the work and gelling time) and give each of the 3 QB one Q with starting line. As far as back up receivers, I think they will be fine. We have a talented group...but keep it to the top 6 WR.

Dixon would be even better with Miller to throw to out there. There is no replacing him.

Downbylaw
08-22-2010, 03:09 PM
Now you want to compare him to Trent Dilfer and Brad Johnson... Yeah okay, this debate no longer warrants a response. The arguments and comparisons you make by in large have little to no relevance. Then again maybe you're right, and it is a total coincidence that the Steelers have won two Super Bowls under Roethlisberger. As for the type of guy I am... I am the type of guy who cares about one statistic and one statistic only, and that of course is wins. Not only does he put up wins, but he brings home championships. Oh that's right, just a coincidence.

Oh "Mr. Sensitive" I did not compare Ben to Trent Dilfer and Brad Johnson. I just listed those 2 bums to refute your comment about "You need a GOOD qb to be successful in the NFL" I could even list a horrible Randall Cunningham who won the league MVP and led the vikes to 15-1 to further refute your erroneous point. The Steelers have won two Super Bowls with Ike Taylor too but does that make him elite? Ben is not the primary reason we won those championships and that is a fact. How many Super Bowl MVPs does he have? Telling

Downbylaw
08-22-2010, 03:18 PM
I think Ben needs reps. It shakes off some rust. It is boring going against your own defense all the time. You saw that INT. That was a good mistake. Now next time when he is in that situation he will remember not to underthrow Wallace.

Ben needs to develop chemistry with ARE (if that will be the slot guy) and Pouncey (if that will be the center). He needs to test out some of the new wrinkles they put in the offense.

Putting him in there with the second team will just make him look bad and hurt confidence. They need to see what he will look like so they can know what to adjust. The only way to do this is with the first teamers.

IMO they should play the first team line for 3 quarters (they could use the work and gelling time) and give each of the 3 QB one Q with starting line. As far as back up receivers, I think they will be fine. We have a talented group...but keep it to the top 6 WR.

Dixon would be even better with Miller to throw to out there. There is no replacing him.

Shake off some rust only to get rusty again in his 4 week absence. Ben can shake off rust in the bye week. This is a distraction. That int is what Ben does ALL THE TIME with the long ball. It was a bad decision, his footwork was bad, that was not due to rust. He did the exact same thing in SB 40 vs the seahawks, Hines had to bail him out. He did the same thing last season vs the Bengals and the Packers. That is what Ben does, he throws a bad long ball, has nothing to do with rust. I think Gary Dulac expressed how often Ben underthrows receivers, He does it all the time.

So Ben needs to test out the wrinkles at the expense of the other guys who will actually be playing? Ben is not Brett Favre, sorry. We need to get prepared for week 1. Ben wont be playing in week 1. He is hurting our team, AGAIN. Ben is a 6 year vet, he should be ready to go without disrupting the team. If he was a true team player, he would say "Hey I'll be ready. I'll jump in when I can. Get the team prepared in my absence" But instead he says "I woulda stayed out there the whole came if I could". Very T.O. ish. Its not about Ben and never has been in the burgh. Its about the Steelers.

Steel_Bus_24
08-22-2010, 03:27 PM
Oh "Mr. Sensitive" I did not compare Ben to Trent Dilfer and Brad Johnson. I just listed those 2 bums to refute your comment about "You need a GOOD qb to be successful in the NFL" I could even list a horrible Randall Cunningham who won the league MVP and led the vikes to 15-1 to further refute your erroneous point. The Steelers have won two Super Bowls with Ike Taylor too but does that make him elite? Ben is not the primary reason we won those championships and that is a fact. How many Super Bowl MVPs does he have? Telling


whatever...I'll respectfully disagree.....:coffee:

it might not be your intention...but your coming off as one of those Fantasy team Fans who can never understand what makes Ben a great qb and deems him "overrated" and a "game manager"

Downbylaw
08-22-2010, 03:31 PM
I hate fantasy and Ben is good. He is not great. Winning two Super Bowls doesnt make you great it makes you fortunate. He has more Super Bowls than Peyton and Favre but if both of those guys were in Pittsburgh, Ben is on the bench. Just a fact my man. I see you dont like those.

SteelKnight
08-22-2010, 05:44 PM
I hate fantasy and Ben is good. He is not great. Winning two Super Bowls doesnt make you great it makes you fortunate. He has more Super Bowls than Peyton and Favre but if both of those guys were in Pittsburgh, Ben is on the bench. Just a fact my man. I see you dont like those.

Ben is great. He is a closer. There are only 2 or maybe 3 men that i would want to have the ball down by six with 3 minutes to go.

Ben, Brady...and possibly but not definitely Brees.

Aaron Rogers chokes, Manning can choke.

Ben is probably the 4th best QB in the league behind Manning, Brady and Brees (undecided order).

Fifth Farve at this point.
6th Rogers
7th Rivers
8th/9th McNaab/Romo -take pick
9th Eli

Need4spd
08-22-2010, 06:37 PM
I hate fantasy and Ben is good. He is not great. Winning two Super Bowls doesnt make you great it makes you fortunate. He has more Super Bowls than Peyton and Favre but if both of those guys were in Pittsburgh, Ben is on the bench. Just a fact my man. I see you dont like those.

You seem to talk a lot about so called "facts," but anyone who knows the definition of what a fact is knows that what you are saying is purely, and by definition, an opinion. You jump on here calling me names, talking about how "sensitive" I am, throwing around what you call facts, which are nothing more than your personal opinion. The sun rises in the east and sets in the west, that's a fact. Whether or not Ben is the primary reason the Steelers won those two Super Bowls is, BY DEFINITION, an opinion.

As to Steel_Bus_24's comment, I was thinking the exact same thing. You do come off as a fantasy honk with little to no appreciation for the nuances of the game. You can have Drew Bledsoe's 128 touchdown passes compared to Ben's 127 all you want. Yes, you actually tried to throw that in my face like it means something. Are you even listening, err, seeing what you're typing? Personally I'll take the rings.

SteelKnight hit the nail right on the head. For whatever reason Ben has the "it" factor that most of us love. He may not be your prototypical pocket passer, but, and I feel like a broken record saying this, he flat out gets the job done, especially when it counts the most. The results for those of us who pay attention to things like that, bear this out.

SteelKnight
08-22-2010, 10:04 PM
I thought i would see more screens in preseason. That would really slow down teams. Especially to the RB blocker. That would make players nervous if they get chipped by a back and get by him. Realistically the rushers would keep going but it might distract some LBs/S following the play long enough to open players.

They could have versions where the screen is there with other options and other times where it looks like it might be a screen but it is not. It would be important to not use the screen sometimes so players would know they can't just leave their man to help out on the screen.

They could run Dennis across to the right (and as the whole worried defense sifts right) and throw the screen to the left.

mikegrimey
08-22-2010, 11:57 PM
Ben is great. He is a closer. There are only 2 or maybe 3 men that i would want to have the ball down by six with 3 minutes to go.

Ben, Brady...and possibly but not definitely Brees.

Aaron Rogers chokes, Manning can choke.

Ben is probably the 4th best QB in the league behind Manning, Brady and Brees (undecided order).

Fifth Farve at this point.
6th Rogers
7th Rivers
8th/9th McNaab/Romo -take pick
9th Eli

I don't think Rogers has been playing long enough to get the "choker" label yet.
Manning can and does choke.
What's funny is you put Favre up on the list even though he is one of the biggest chokers ever. Sure, he may have some amazing comebacks in the regular season but justl ike Manning he seems to save his worst for when it counts the most.
Rivers should be high for a last drive guy, if he stopped running into the Pats and Steelers in the playoffs he might get a ring too. (I count the choke against the Jets last year as a Steelers under cowheresque meltdown, their previous playoff loses came against teams that they just don't beat very often, if they keep losing those types of playoff games Ill have to reverse my judgment on Rivers and label him a choker).

Downbylaw
08-23-2010, 01:12 AM
Ben is great. He is a closer. There are only 2 or maybe 3 men that i would want to have the ball down by six with 3 minutes to go.

Ben, Brady...and possibly but not definitely Brees.

Aaron Rogers chokes, Manning can choke.

Ben is probably the 4th best QB in the league behind Manning, Brady and Brees (undecided order).

Fifth Farve at this point.
6th Rogers
7th Rivers
8th/9th McNaab/Romo -take pick
9th Eli

You are a Homer Congrats. Sorry Ben is not great. Great qbs dont miss the playoffs TWICE after winning Super Bowls. Blame Arians, Blame the D but had the offense scored TD's instead of Fgs then we make the playoffs. 23rd in the redzone. Thats on Ben. 06 was on Ben too.

Downbylaw
08-23-2010, 01:18 AM
You seem to talk a lot about so called "facts," but anyone who knows the definition of what a fact is knows that what you are saying is purely, and by definition, an opinion. You jump on here calling me names, talking about how "sensitive" I am, throwing around what you call facts, which are nothing more than your personal opinion. The sun rises in the east and sets in the west, that's a fact. Whether or not Ben is the primary reason the Steelers won those two Super Bowls is, BY DEFINITION, an opinion.

As to Steel_Bus_24's comment, I was thinking the exact same thing. You do come off as a fantasy honk with little to no appreciation for the nuances of the game. You can have Drew Bledsoe's 128 touchdown passes compared to Ben's 127 all you want. Yes, you actually tried to throw that in my face like it means something. Are you even listening, err, seeing what you're typing? Personally I'll take the rings.

SteelKnight hit the nail right on the head. For whatever reason Ben has the "it" factor that most of us love. He may not be your prototypical pocket passer, but, and I feel like a broken record saying this, he flat out gets the job done, especially when it counts the most. The results for those of us who pay attention to things like that, bear this out.

No sir, we won Super Bowl 40 with little contribution from Ben. FACT. We were leading SB 43 20-7 with Ben throwing SIXTY -EIGHT yards. FACT. I never called you any names, not my style. By your rational, Ike Taylor can say he is better than Reavis, Ndami and Champ because he has two rings. Or does that only work for Ben? Please explain. Where was Ben when the defense had an off year? Ben had his best statistical season didnt he? WHY didnt we excell? What happened to the IT factor you speak of? As you see WITHOUT a dominant defense we dont make the playoffs. Get it? Dominant defense little contribution from Ben and we win SB 40. Dominant defense in 08 (#1) and LITTLE contribution from Ben (17-15 AND TWENTY THREE TURNOVERS) and we win the Super Bowl. I think you get the picture now. Maybe not.

Downbylaw
08-23-2010, 01:19 AM
I don't think Rogers has been playing long enough to get the "choker" label yet.
Manning can and does choke.
What's funny is you put Favre up on the list even though he is one of the biggest chokers ever. Sure, he may have some amazing comebacks in the regular season but justl ike Manning he seems to save his worst for when it counts the most.
Rivers should be high for a last drive guy, if he stopped running into the Pats and Steelers in the playoffs he might get a ring too. (I count the choke against the Jets last year as a Steelers under cowheresque meltdown, their previous playoff loses came against teams that they just don't beat very often, if they keep losing those types of playoff games Ill have to reverse my judgment on Rivers and label him a choker).

Good post. Rivers is better than Ben in every statistical category. Ben is just on a better team

SteelKnight
08-23-2010, 03:33 AM
I don't think Rogers has been playing long enough to get the "choker" label yet.
Manning can and does choke.
What's funny is you put Favre up on the list even though he is one of the biggest chokers ever. Sure, he may have some amazing comebacks in the regular season but justl ike Manning he seems to save his worst for when it counts the most.
Rivers should be high for a last drive guy, if he stopped running into the Pats and Steelers in the playoffs he might get a ring too. (I count the choke against the Jets last year as a Steelers under cowheresque meltdown, their previous playoff loses came against teams that they just don't beat very often, if they keep losing those types of playoff games Ill have to reverse my judgment on Rivers and label him a choker).

Of course Rogers has been playing long enough to get the label of "choker". I'm not saying he will always be a choker or will never produce anything but right now he is a choker. i don't know how many Packer games you've seen but I've seen many where he plays an awesome game and at the end when they need him to (because the defense has sucked) he just chokes, throws a pick or doesn't come through (sack/fumble). It's a shame it should have to come to those final drives after he plays well the hole game but it is what it is. If it were not for this choking nature, he would be just above Ben.

Yeah...Farve chokes a lot but when ranking him, besides respect I took into account how he is playing right now. last year, he had one of his best seasons ever with like 33TDs and only 7 picks.

Rivers...he had a season of comebacks 2-3 years ago but for the most part, he is better off just taking the lead and holding it. I would not feel excited if he had the ball with 3 min down 6. He's had a great offensive line, great receivers, great TE and great RB. I would hope he could play OK.

SteelKnight
08-23-2010, 03:44 AM
Good post. Rivers is better than Ben in every statistical category. Ben is just on a better team

I'll take Ben in the clutch. Rivers has a great offensive line which only had him sacked 25 times (half of Ben), good receivers, a great TE, had a great RB last year (LT).

Ben played 1 less game, and more passing yards. Even with the one less game he only had 2 TD less.

No doubt Rivers is good but I'll take Ben. Rivers would suck with our O-line.

mikegrimey
08-23-2010, 04:09 AM
Of course Rogers has been playing long enough to get the label of "choker". I'm not saying he will always be a choker or will never produce anything but right now he is a choker. i don't know how many Packer games you've seen but I've seen many where he plays an awesome game and at the end when they need him to (because the defense has sucked) he just chokes, throws a pick or doesn't come through (sack/fumble). It's a shame it should have to come to those final drives after he plays well the hole game but it is what it is. If it were not for this choking nature, he would be just above Ben.

Yeah...Farve chokes a lot but when ranking him, besides respect I took into account how he is playing right now. last year, he had one of his best seasons ever with like 33TDs and only 7 picks.

Rivers...he had a season of comebacks 2-3 years ago but for the most part, he is better off just taking the lead and holding it. I would not feel excited if he had the ball with 3 min down 6. He's had a great offensive line, great receivers, great TE and great RB. I would hope he could play OK.

I haven't seen a lot of Packers games so I can't comment extensively on Rogers like that.

Favre might have only threw 7 ints last year but once again saved his worst for last as he went out in spectacular fashion, just like his last year with Green Bay.

I don't know why you think Rivers was only good at comebacks 2-3 years ago. He pulled off q few last year too including an awesome game winning drive against the Giants.
Outside of Manning and Ben he may be the best at the regular season comeback. He just needs to turn the corner against some teams in the playoffs. He can't seem to beat us or the patriots when he needs to. Kind of like we couldn't beat the Patriots when we needed to in the early 2000s.

I fail to see your point about him having good receivers and Antonio Gates. You weren't going to use the fact that Ben had Holmes, Ward, and Miller against him were you?
Plus none of those so called "Great" receivers on the Chargers were great before Rivers. I've said this a bunch of times but a great QB can do more to make a receiver than a great receiver can do to make a QB. Outside of Gates most of the Chargers offense was pretty well unproven, give credit where its due, Rivers is the one making their offense click.
It is one of the most irritatingly futile argument when someone tries to negate a QBs talent by saying "oh he has a great oline blah blah blah he has great receivers etc. etc." Unless you want to get into a position by position analysis of each team in question it's really fruitless to go down this road because a lot of people subjectively speak about teams positions without actually looking at it.

The Chargers haven't had a great running game since 07 and LT was not great in his last two seasons, especially last year.

mikegrimey
08-23-2010, 04:16 AM
I'll take Ben in the clutch. Rivers has a great offensive line which only had him sacked 25 times (half of Ben), good receivers, a great TE, had a great RB last year (LT).

Ben played 1 less game, and more passing yards. Even with the one less game he only had 2 TD less.

No doubt Rivers is good but I'll take Ben. Rivers would suck with our O-line.

This is another poor argument because

A) You can't prove that Rivers would "suck" with our oline. You just can't prove it. It's a completely subjective opinion and has no place in a logical argument. Unless you've seen Rivers playing in official games with our o-line you can't make that call. All speculation.

B) You're relying on statistics, and only from one year at that. Statistics do not tell the whole story truthfully. They can often be misleading.

C) Simply comparing our oline to the Charger's oline via sack numbers isn't really fair. Most of us will condede that Ben's particular style of play is responsible for a number of sacks he takes. I'm not saying our o-line is good by any means, but its hard to fault them for a sack when Ben has a chance to throw the ball away and doesn't. The Chargers o-line last year was abominable, they lost a couple of starters right at the beginning of the year. Rivers probably took less sacks because he threw the ball away more (I say probably because I didn't watch all of San Diego's games so I can't know for sure).

Now about Ben in the clutch, that is a valid argument. Ben's SB winning drive cemented his status as a great clutch player. River's has yet to reach that kind of peak in the post season. That is your one good point.
The rest is a lot of weak speculation.

Downbylaw
08-23-2010, 05:16 AM
Of course Rogers has been playing long enough to get the label of "choker". I'm not saying he will always be a choker or will never produce anything but right now he is a choker. i don't know how many Packer games you've seen but I've seen many where he plays an awesome game and at the end when they need him to (because the defense has sucked) he just chokes, throws a pick or doesn't come through (sack/fumble). It's a shame it should have to come to those final drives after he plays well the hole game but it is what it is. If it were not for this choking nature, he would be just above Ben.

Yeah...Farve chokes a lot but when ranking him, besides respect I took into account how he is playing right now. last year, he had one of his best seasons ever with like 33TDs and only 7 picks.

Rivers...he had a season of comebacks 2-3 years ago but for the most part, he is better off just taking the lead and holding it. I would not feel excited if he had the ball with 3 min down 6. He's had a great offensive line, great receivers, great TE and great RB. I would hope he could play OK.

Rivers has an impressive streak of winning in December. Those games are when it counts. Not his fault he had to play with always hurt LT, Plus Rivers played with a torn ACL. YIKES!

Downbylaw
08-23-2010, 05:19 AM
I'll take Ben in the clutch. Rivers has a great offensive line which only had him sacked 25 times (half of Ben), good receivers, a great TE, had a great RB last year (LT).

Ben played 1 less game, and more passing yards. Even with the one less game he only had 2 TD less.

No doubt Rivers is good but I'll take Ben. Rivers would suck with our O-line.

Of course you will, you are a biased Steeler fan. I wouldnt and neither would most NFL owners. He doesnt get sacked often (Unlike Ben) because he processes the information faster than Ben. How come Dixon didnt get sacked vs the Ravens last year? Enter Ben in the 2nd game and he is sacked 4 times. Saints line is not good, ITS BREES quick reads that make him good. Same with the Pats line. Brady is the reason they are good. Brady gets hurt and enter Cassel, who gets sacked 46 times, SAME LINE. Again, its the qb. Simple. Rivers would excell on our team. Sorry

Downbylaw
08-23-2010, 05:24 AM
This is another poor argument because

A) You can't prove that Rivers would "suck" with our oline. You just can't prove it. It's a completely subjective opinion and has no place in a logical argument. Unless you've seen Rivers playing in official games with our o-line you can't make that call. All speculation.

B) You're relying on statistics, and only from one year at that. Statistics do not tell the whole story truthfully. They can often be misleading.

C) Simply comparing our oline to the Charger's oline via sack numbers isn't really fair. Most of us will condede that Ben's particular style of play is responsible for a number of sacks he takes. I'm not saying our o-line is good by any means, but its hard to fault them for a sack when Ben has a chance to throw the ball away and doesn't. The Chargers o-line last year was abominable, they lost a couple of starters right at the beginning of the year. Rivers probably took less sacks because he threw the ball away more (I say probably because I didn't watch all of San Diego's games so I can't know for sure).

Now about Ben in the clutch, that is a valid argument. Ben's SB winning drive cemented his status as a great clutch player. River's has yet to reach that kind of peak in the post season. That is your one good point.
The rest is a lot of weak speculation.

Great post. Make no doubt about it, Bens drive in SB43 was the stuff legends are made of. My thing is it wasnt necessary to have to come from behind. We should have blown them out. We had a 20-7 lead in the 3rd qtr and our offense did NOTHING. Had we been able to sustain some drives and score the game isnt close. It is embarrasing to have all the white knuckle games that we have with our defense. Our offensive execution is inconsistent and we dont score in the redzone. If we did, games are not even close. To have a great defense and have to "come back" should be a knock against Ben Roethlisberger not props. Notice Terry Bradshaw had a great defense and most games were not close, nor should they be.

Need4spd
08-23-2010, 06:50 AM
Rivers would excell on our team. Sorry

Is this another one of those things you call a "fact?"

Downbylaw
08-23-2010, 07:21 AM
Is this another one of those things you call a "fact?"

If it was I would have stated so. Sir

rick723
08-23-2010, 04:07 PM
Cause the simple fact is...Lefty Sucks!! I mean when he is in the game, the other teams Defense just tee's off on him cause he is so slow, and has no escape ability whatsoever! Also considering Flozell Adams looks so horrible, we NEED a QB who can scramble out of trouble once Adams man passes him faster than " Paris Hilton " can say YES to Sex! :applaudit:


Please Tomlin,,,grow a Brain!! And start Dixon!!

I am a start Dixon fan but, how many times was Leftwitch sacked in the Giants game? On a side note, I have NEVER seen Wallace catch a Ben pass in stride, Ben can't reach Wallace. Lefty did! Every long pass Ben throws to Wallace, he has to slow down and or wait for it to get there. When you see Wallace Running like me with a hub cap (when I was a teen) and Lefty hits him in stride, that bees a thing of beauty!

chacha
08-23-2010, 05:21 PM
I'll take Ben in the clutch. Rivers has a great offensive line which only had him sacked 25 times (half of Ben), good receivers, a great TE, had a great RB last year (LT).

Ben played 1 less game, and more passing yards. Even with the one less game he only had 2 TD less.

No doubt Rivers is good but I'll take Ben. Rivers would suck with our O-line.

Absolutely. Rivers would probably end up hurt for the entire season with our O-line protecting him.

I'd take Ben over Rivers anyday.

chacha
08-23-2010, 05:33 PM
You are a Homer Congrats. Sorry Ben is not great. Great qbs dont miss the playoffs TWICE after winning Super Bowls. Blame Arians, Blame the D but had the offense scored TD's instead of Fgs then we make the playoffs. 23rd in the redzone. Thats on Ben. 06 was on Ben too.

yeah It's all Ben's fault :headshake:

LVSteelersfan
08-23-2010, 05:54 PM
Some people's kids. Ben did not lose the games that got lost last year. It was the defense puking its guts out in those games last year. You can't blame that on someone who is not even on the field. Arian's playcalling is putrid in the red zone. Can't blame Ben for running an empty backfield set on third and goal where Ben gets sacked 9 times out of 10 because the Oline sucks. If Arians would at least put a blocker in the backfield to slow that pass rush down, we would score a lot more TDs when we get inside the 10. Saying Ben is not great is your right but there are a lot more people who have watched football over 30 years and recognize that he has the "IT" factor as it has been stated earlier in the thread. Say whatever you want, and there will be people who say you are wrong. It is all opinions on a football message board so it really doesn't matter. I am one of the ones who think Ben is great when it counts. There is no QB in the game who doesn't mess up occasionally including Brady and Manning.

mikegrimey
08-23-2010, 05:58 PM
Absolutely. Rivers would probably end up hurt for the entire season with our O-line protecting him.

I'd take Ben over Rivers anyday.

What are you basing this statment on?
How many games has River's missed in his career due to injury?

Are you blatantly ignoring the fact that the Chargers lost not one but two starters on their oline last year right at the beginning of the season?

I don't recall River's getting "hurt for the entire season" behind a bad line then, what makes you think it would happen behind ours?

There is an argument to be made for Ben over Rivers but the "Rivers has a better oline" isn't one of them. It's just speculation and subjective nonsense.

whatdoiknow
08-23-2010, 06:18 PM
What are you basing this statment on?
How many games has River's missed in his career due to injury?

Are you blatantly ignoring the fact that the Chargers lost not one but two starters on their oline last year right at the beginning of the season?

I don't recall River's getting "hurt for the entire season" behind a bad line then, what makes you think it would happen behind ours?

There is an argument to be made for Ben over Rivers but the "Rivers has a better oline" isn't one of them. It's just speculation and subjective nonsense.




Rivers O-Line missed ONE Starter the first 4 games of 2009, and the Center missed two games. In those first 4 games Rivers team went 2-2, and Rivers was sacked 10 total times, and was put pressure on ALOT more times where Rivers, being the scared to get hit coward that he is just dumped it away, rather than TRYING to make a play. After his Line cameback, Rivers was sacked just 14 more times the rest of the year in 12 games. That's 14 sacks in over 350 of Rivers final pass attempts. Hell Ben was sacked 22 times in his final 100 pass attempts in 09. And yet you wanna argue that River's O-Line doesn't make a difference ?


Son let me tell you something, there isn't a SINGLE NFL GM who would want, or take P.Rivers over Ben Roethlisberger, not one! Not even the Chargers GM if he had a choice to do it over again! And that IS...the....STRAIHGT.....BUTTER...BABY!!

SteelKnight
08-23-2010, 10:09 PM
What are you basing this statment on?
How many games has River's missed in his career due to injury?

Are you blatantly ignoring the fact that the Chargers lost not one but two starters on their oline last year right at the beginning of the season?

I don't recall River's getting "hurt for the entire season" behind a bad line then, what makes you think it would happen behind ours?

There is an argument to be made for Ben over Rivers but the "Rivers has a better oline" isn't one of them. It's just speculation and subjective nonsense.

Fair enough. I must admit that I was basing my guess on a sportscaster that said recently that the Chargers have one of the better lines line the league. i did just look at a ranking and they had the Chargers 21st and us 27th.

Still you heard the sc say DL around the league ave said Ben is one of the hardest to bring down. So I imagine that helps with a terrible line.

Well... we are about to see if it is the line or Ben. If Leftwich rarely gets sacked in games 1-4 and then the sacks skyrocket when Ben returns we can blame Ben. If the immobile Lefty constantly has someone is his face and gets sacked a lot...

I will concede the O-line to you if you watch the Chargers a lot and know that they are bad. Still...I think few would fair well behind our line. If Rivers is one, fine.

Please specify which games last year Rivers was down in the fourth quarter and led the team to a winning final drive. Thanks.

mikegrimey
08-23-2010, 10:27 PM
Fair enough. I must admit that I was basing my guess on a sportscaster that said recently that the Chargers have one of the better lines line the league. i did just look at a ranking and they had the Chargers 21st and us 27th.

Still you heard the sc say DL around the league ave said Ben is one of the hardest to bring down. So I imagine that helps with a terrible line.

Well... we are about to see if it is the line or Ben. If Leftwich rarely gets sacked in games 1-4 and then the sacks skyrocket when Ben returns we can blame Ben. If the immobile Lefty constantly has someone is his face and gets sacked a lot...

I will concede the O-line to you if you watch the Chargers a lot and know that they are bad. Still...I think few would fair well behind our line. If Rivers is one, fine.

Please specify which games last year Rivers was down in the fourth quarter and led the team to a winning final drive. Thanks.


http://www.pro-football-reference.com/play-index/comeback.cgi?player=RivePh00

There's a link of all of River's fourth quarter coembacks. I remember watching the Giants one specifically last year.

I don't watch every Charger's game but I do watch them a good amount 5-6 games a year I'd guess because they get primetime showings and have some players I like to see.

I don't doubt for a second that Ben is one of the hardest QB's in the league to bring down. We don't even need statistics to know that, just watching him play will tell you he has something special int hat department. In fact I heard that the Browns, Ravens, and Bengals, when drafting a dlinemen or linebacker, specifically ask themselves "can this guy tackle Ben Roethlisberger"

Like a lot of people have mentioned our line isn't good but Ben does cause a good number of his own sacks, which is just his style ofp lay, like Brett Favre or Steve Young he just has that motor inside of him that doesn't want to throw the ball away or give up on a play. There's nothing wrong with that, it comes with a risk/reward ratio. Throwing the ball away can be safer and better for a players health but some guys just don't play the game that way.

Contrary to what WhadoIKnow thinks, Rivers isn't being a coward for throwing the ball away and avoiding the hit (How you can call someone a coward who played an entire game with a torn ACL is beyond me) but it's just his style and one of the bigger reasons he hasn't missed a game due to injury. There's nothing wrong about giving up on a broke play in a football game, it shows patience and smarts in a lot of cases.

Both styles have their merits and set backs. One isn't necessarily superior to the other.

Downbylaw
08-23-2010, 11:09 PM
Absolutely. Rivers would probably end up hurt for the entire season with our O-line protecting him.

I'd take Ben over Rivers anyday.

How come Leftwich, Batch nor Dixon are sacked a lot behind the SAME line? Do tell. The problem is Ben. Sorry

Downbylaw
08-23-2010, 11:23 PM
Fair enough. I must admit that I was basing my guess on a sportscaster that said recently that the Chargers have one of the better lines line the league. i did just look at a ranking and they had the Chargers 21st and us 27th.

Still you heard the sc say DL around the league ave said Ben is one of the hardest to bring down. So I imagine that helps with a terrible line.

Well... we are about to see if it is the line or Ben. If Leftwich rarely gets sacked in games 1-4 and then the sacks skyrocket when Ben returns we can blame Ben. If the immobile Lefty constantly has someone is his face and gets sacked a lot...

I will concede the O-line to you if you watch the Chargers a lot and know that they are bad. Still...I think few would fair well behind our line. If Rivers is one, fine.

Please specify which games last year Rivers was down in the fourth quarter and led the team to a winning final drive. Thanks.


What does mobility have to do with anything? What qb has EVER been more mobile than MIchael Vick? ZERO. However, he was SACKED ALOT! So was Randall Cunningham, do the research. Mobility has NOTHING to do with anything. Its about the MIND. Having the ability to process the information quickly and get the ball out of your hand. Thats what Brady does well, he is rarely sacked. Neither is Peyton Manning. Neither are mobile but BOTH are smart and process the information quickly. Leftwich does as well. It was no coincidence that Ben was being harrassed in the Skins/Browns games of 08 and then Lefty came in and burned the blitzing secondaries. He did the same when he subbed for Ben in the Eagles game (Ben sacked 9 times). When Leftwich is not sacked a lot in week 1-4 there will be an EXCUSE, just like there always is when it comes to Ben. "Oh we used blitz protection for Leftwich" "Oh we ran the ball more so that enabled him to offset the defense and have room to pass" "Arians called a different game for Byron. He doesnt call those plays for Ben". There is NO DOUBT ABOUT IT. THE SACK PROBLEM IS ON BEN. He got sacked a lot when Russ Grimm and Whiz were there as well. Take a look.


I'll say it again, BEN HAS A SACK PROBLEM not the line. It is due to INDECISION. The numbers support this fact. EVEN WHEN GRIMM WAS THERE. Lets look at some numbers from his rookie season in 04. Ben passed the ball 295 times and was sacked 30 times. Lets look at what some of his contemporaries did that same year. Peyton Manning threw 497 times and was sacked THIRTEEN TIMES . Lets look at a lesser qb named Jake Plummer. Jake threw the ball 521 times and was sacked only 15 times (226 more attempts and 15 less sacks). Brett Favre passed the ball 540 times and was sacked only 12 times.

2004
Ben 295 Att 30 sacks
P.Manning 497 Att 13 sacks
Plummer 521 Att 15 sacks
Favre 540 Att 12 sacks

2005
Ben 261 Atts 23 sacks
P.Manning 453 Atts 17 sacks
C.Palmer 509 Atts 19 sacks
Brady 530 Atts 26 sacks

2006
Ben 469 Atts 46 sacks
P.Manning 557 Atts 14 sacks
Brees 554 Atts 18 sacks
Rivers 467 Atts 27 sacks

2007
Ben 404 Atts 47 sacks
P.Manning 515 Atts 21 sacks
Romo 520 Atts 24 sacks
Favre 535 Atts 15 sacks

2008
Ben 469 Atts 46 sacks P.Manning 515 14 sacks
Brees 635 13 sacks
E.Manning 479 27 sacks

2009
Brees 514 20 Sacks
Favre 531 35 Sacks
Rivers 486 25 Sacks
Peyton 571 10 Sacks
Ben 506 50 Sacks

Dixon threw the ball 26 times vs the Ravens (0 Sacks)
Ben in game 2 vs Ravens (Sacked 4 Times)

Batch from 05-07
125 Atts 4 sacks
lets Multiply that by 4
500 Atts = 20 sacks

During that time Batch started 4 games. I know he did some mop up duty in blowouts (but this is a non factor because he wouldn't be passing anyway). Also, Leftwich played in the same games as Ben did in 08 vs the Eagles, Skins, Browns and Texans and didn't encounter the same problems as Ben did vs the blitz. In fact in same games in 08 Leftwich outplayed Ben.

vs. Skins- Leftwich 7-10 129 yards 1 TD 145 rating
- Big Ben 5-17 50 1 INT 15.1 rating


vs. Browns Leftwich 7-12 80 yards 78.5 rating 1 Td run
Big Ben 9-14 110 yards 1 INT 58.6 rating

vs. Eagles Big Ben 13-25 131 yards 1 INT 50.6 rating
Leftwich 4-7 60 yards 85.4 rating

Mind you ITS THE SAME LINE BEN IS PLAYING BEHIND. Why the dropoff in sacks? Because Batch/Leftwich and Dixon read the Defense faster and gets it out
Now honestly, after looking at this UNDENIABLE proof do you really BELIEVE its the line?
Ben MUST get the ball out of his hand quickly to cut down on these sacks

Downbylaw
08-23-2010, 11:30 PM
Some people's kids. Ben did not lose the games that got lost last year. It was the defense puking its guts out in those games last year. You can't blame that on someone who is not even on the field. Arian's playcalling is putrid in the red zone. Can't blame Ben for running an empty backfield set on third and goal where Ben gets sacked 9 times out of 10 because the Oline sucks. If Arians would at least put a blocker in the backfield to slow that pass rush down, we would score a lot more TDs when we get inside the 10. Saying Ben is not great is your right but there are a lot more people who have watched football over 30 years and recognize that he has the "IT" factor as it has been stated earlier in the thread. Say whatever you want, and there will be people who say you are wrong. It is all opinions on a football message board so it really doesn't matter. I am one of the ones who think Ben is great when it counts. There is no QB in the game who doesn't mess up occasionally including Brady and Manning.

Our Defense was #5 in the league. But when the offense fails to churn the clock and put together long scoring drives you tend to get tired. Isnt it IRONIC that all of the breakdowns happened in the 4th quarter? I can blame Ben for everything offensively. Ben has the abilty to eliminate Arians. Its called an audible, you know like the elite qbs do? Do you think Brady, Manning or Brees are handcuffed by an OC? I think not. Many people dont even know who their OC's are and why is that? Because the Qbs make them Mr Irrelevant. If Manning was our QB Arians would get a head coaching job. If Arians called a play that didnt fit the defense Peyton was looking at he would merely audible and change the play. Why cant or wont Ben? Ben has the "IT" factor because he is on the STEELERS. Put Ben on the Lions and he is Jake Plummer.

SteelKnight
08-24-2010, 01:53 AM
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/play-index/comeback.cgi?player=RivePh00

There's a link of all of River's fourth quarter coembacks. I remember watching the Giants one specifically last year.

I don't watch every Charger's game but I do watch them a good amount 5-6 games a year I'd guess because they get primetime showings and have some players I like to see.

I don't doubt for a second that Ben is one of the hardest QB's in the league to bring down. We don't even need statistics to know that, just watching him play will tell you he has something special int hat department. In fact I heard that the Browns, Ravens, and Bengals, when drafting a dlinemen or linebacker, specifically ask themselves "can this guy tackle Ben Roethlisberger"

Like a lot of people have mentioned our line isn't good but Ben does cause a good number of his own sacks, which is just his style ofp lay, like Brett Favre or Steve Young he just has that motor inside of him that doesn't want to throw the ball away or give up on a play. There's nothing wrong with that, it comes with a risk/reward ratio. Throwing the ball away can be safer and better for a players health but some guys just don't play the game that way.

Contrary to what WhadoIKnow thinks, Rivers isn't being a coward for throwing the ball away and avoiding the hit (How you can call someone a coward who played an entire game with a torn ACL is beyond me) but it's just his style and one of the bigger reasons he hasn't missed a game due to injury. There's nothing wrong about giving up on a broke play in a football game, it shows patience and smarts in a lot of cases.

Both styles have their merits and set backs. One isn't necessarily superior to the other.

I admire a guy who can argue calmly without insults and produces stats. lol

I was impressed that ProFootball is keeping suc stats but some of it can be misleading.

For example, in one game it was tied 10-10 in the beginning of the 4th Q (Dal). They took a 20-10 lead and they still called it a 4th Quarter comeback. The only time they were losing was very early on when it was 3-0. From then on it was either tied or they had the lead.

Another game was tied and yes, he did lead them to the game winning field goal but they had the lead the whole game and then let the Bengals tie it before scoring a field goal to win. Let's put it this way...they were never losing.

I would call it 2 4th Q comebacks ...Giants and Oakland.

Edit: Oh...I just realized that they agree with me and they only gave him credit for 2 4QCs. The other two are listed on there as GWD (Game winning drives). That's reasonable.

SteelKnight
08-24-2010, 02:08 AM
Damn...Rivers was drafted the same year and Ben has 17 fourth quarter comebacks and 21 game winning drives. I told you he is clutch.

We were speaking about Aaron Rogers and his choking. He only has "3" 4th Q comebacks and 4 Game winning drives (same drives). He has had opportunities but just has choked. I've seen it. Poor guy. In addition, all of his 4QC and GWD are against 2 teams...Detroit and Chicago...lol Let's see him come back with pressure on the line against a good team...then he will not be called choker by me.

SteelKnight
08-24-2010, 02:12 AM
I also have to admit Manning did a good job with comebacks last year (7 4th QCs/GWD). That's pretty good.

mikegrimey
08-24-2010, 04:52 PM
I admire a guy who can argue calmly without insults and produces stats. lol

I was impressed that ProFootball is keeping suc stats but some of it can be misleading.

For example, in one game it was tied 10-10 in the beginning of the 4th Q (Dal). They took a 20-10 lead and they still called it a 4th Quarter comeback. The only time they were losing was very early on when it was 3-0. From then on it was either tied or they had the lead.

Another game was tied and yes, he did lead them to the game winning field goal but they had the lead the whole game and then let the Bengals tie it before scoring a field goal to win. Let's put it this way...they were never losing.

I would call it 2 4th Q comebacks ...Giants and Oakland.

Edit: Oh...I just realized that they agree with me and they only gave him credit for 2 4QCs. The other two are listed on there as GWD (Game winning drives). That's reasonable.

Yea I immediately recognized some of the 4th quarter comebacks on there weren't necessarily comebacks. On Ben's I recognized a few immediately that were either OT wins or ties that we came back and won from.

So Rivers only had a few but they were definitely good ones. I got to watch the Giant's/Chargers game (sitting in the ER with my fiance it was a bright spot) and it was really a great comeback. Rivers has it in him to become a great great QB he just has to jump over the hump in the playoffs.

SteelKnight
08-24-2010, 05:50 PM
Yea I immediately recognized some of the 4th quarter comebacks on there weren't necessarily comebacks. On Ben's I recognized a few immediately that were either OT wins or ties that we came back and won from.

So Rivers only had a few but they were definitely good ones. I got to watch the Giant's/Chargers game (sitting in the ER with my fiance it was a bright spot) and it was really a great comeback. Rivers has it in him to become a great great QB he just has to jump over the hump in the playoffs.

Cool. I'm tired of arguing about Ben. He's a good QB and one I trust ...more than BA and Tomlin. I wish he could call his own plays more often. I think he will have a great year.

I would be shocked if we didn't go to at least 2 more Superbowls and win at least one more before Ben retires. He's a real deal franchise QB. That's more than I can say for Malone, Stoudt, Woodley, Brister, Graham, Tomzac, O'Donnel, Stewart, and Maddox. So if I say some good things about Ben, don't assume I've said it for every single Steeler QB. lol

Edit: I did own a Bubby Brister shirt as a kid though...lol...the one that talks about him and his 5 sisters. I was just happy someone was there to rescue us from Malone.

Downbylaw
08-24-2010, 08:55 PM
Cool. I'm tired of arguing about Ben. He's a good QB and one I trust ...more than BA and Tomlin. I wish he could call his own plays more often. I think he will have a great year.

I would be shocked if we didn't go to at least 2 more Superbowls and win at least one more before Ben retires. He's a real deal franchise QB. That's more than I can say for Malone, Stoudt, Woodley, Brister, Graham, Tomzac, O'Donnel, Stewart, and Maddox. So if I say some good things about Ben, don't assume I've said it for every single Steeler QB. lol

Edit: I did own a Bubby Brister shirt as a kid though...lol...the one that talks about him and his 5 sisters. I was just happy someone was there to rescue us from Malone.

Of course Ben is better than Malone, Stoudt, Woodley, Brister, Graham,Tomczak, Neil, Maddox or Stewart. They were ALL backup Qbs or journeymen. Do you think Ben would take that as a compliment? Thats like telling Giselle she is more attractive than Molly Ringwald or Lady GaGa.

If anyone says Ben is a bum, they are mistaken. He certainly is not. But those who say he is better than Manning and Brady etc they are mistaken too.

SteelKnight
08-24-2010, 09:51 PM
Of course Ben is better than Malone, Stoudt, Woodley, Brister, Graham,Tomczak, Neil, Maddox or Stewart. They were ALL backup Qbs or journeymen. Do you think Ben would take that as a compliment? Thats like telling Giselle she is more attractive than Molly Ringwald or Lady GaGa.

If anyone says Ben is a bum, they are mistaken. He certainly is not. But those who say he is better than Manning and Brady etc they are mistaken too.

Every single one of those were starting Steeler QBs. My point is I don't just see the QB is the Steeler QB and start looking through rose colored glasses to give compliments. Ben is someone special.

whatdoiknow
08-24-2010, 10:00 PM
Every single one of those were starting Steeler QBs. My point is I don't just see the QB is the Steeler QB and start looking through rose colored glasses to give compliments. Ben is someone special.




Knight: Why are you arguing with this guy ? ANYONE who even remotely thinks that Rivers is a better QB then Ben is a clueless fool :chuckle::chuckle::chuckle:

Downbylaw
08-24-2010, 10:07 PM
Every single one of those were starting Steeler QBs. My point is I don't just see the QB is the Steeler QB and start looking through rose colored glasses to give compliments. Ben is someone special.

Kordell started for us and won almost FIFTY games and he was a BUM. A bonafied, certified BUM. He left and his bumness showed. Whether he started or not is irrelevant, He wasnt any good and still almost won 50 games. Thats a testament to the Steelers not Kordell. I think Ben COULD be someone special IF he put in the work. Thus far he has not and his mediocre stats reflect that.

Polly
08-24-2010, 10:11 PM
Dixon is looking like a beast against 2nd and 3rd stringers. They need to get him some playing time with the 1st string team. Its probably hard to get all 3 QBs reps with the first team but they need to get dixon in there somehow.

whatdoiknow
08-24-2010, 10:17 PM
In his first 6 seasons, P.Manning had a 62 competion percentage, and Ben had a 65. Manning never even averaged over 7.74 Yds per attempt in any of his first 6 seasons,,,While Ben set a NFL record for a rookie QB averaging 8.88 Yds per attempt. In his first 6 seasons Manning never had a QB rating over 98,,,Ben had a higher QB rating of 98 in 4 of his first 6 seasons. Manning never even SNIFFED a Super Bowl game in his first six seasons....while Ben LED us to TWO Super Bowl Victories!!




Here Endith the Lesson!!

SteelKnight
08-24-2010, 10:18 PM
Kordell started for us and won almost FIFTY games and he was a BUM. A bonafied, certified BUM. He left and his bumness showed. Whether he started or not is irrelevant, He wasnt any good and still almost won 50 games. Thats a testament to the Steelers not Kordell. I think Ben COULD be someone special IF he put in the work. Thus far he has not and his mediocre stats reflect that.

I see reasoning with you will be a waste of time.

The only reason all those other starters were brought up is because Steelers fans don't automatically say their QB is top 5-10 when they are not.

If you don't like them, fine but don't make up your own facts like calling all of them back up journeymen. Sure...many were eventual back ups and played on several teams but all the ones I named were Steelers starters at some point.

SteelKnight
08-24-2010, 10:26 PM
In his first 6 seasons, P.Manning had a 62 competion percentage, and Ben had a 65. Manning never even averaged over 7.74 Yds per attempt in any of his first 6 seasons,,,While Ben set a NFL record for a rookie QB averaging 8.88 Yds per attempt. In his first 6 seasons Manning never had a QB rating over 98,,,Ben had a higher QB rating of 98 in 4 of his first 6 seasons. Manning never even SNIFFED a Super Bowl game in his first six seasons....while Ben LED us to TWO Super Bowl Victories!!




Here Endith the Lesson!!

He doesn't get it. his head is too buried in his facts.

He doesn't understand that the QB is the leader of the team and when you have someone who is considered a franchise QB, it gives the team hope. They believe in their captain. They always have a chance to win. He puts them on his spiritual back and carries their spirits.

Even though he won't be playing in the first 4 games, the teams spirits will still be carried by Ben. If he was gone for the whole season or traded, they might feel and play differently. As it is, they still have hope and will try to cover until their captain is ready.

Can a team win without a franchise QB? Yes...if there is some other leader...a coach...a player. Our leader is Ben. he is the general.

Even though he did not have a great game in Super Bowl 40, we would not have been there without him. I honestly believe he would have stepped up in that game if he had to. He just didn't have to.

Fire Arians
08-24-2010, 10:26 PM
I have faith that the coaching staff will start whoever will give us a better chance to win.

I will admit though that I want to see more of Dixon, because he is more 'exciting' to watch. However in the end, the only stat that matters is the W-L column.

Downbylaw
08-24-2010, 10:38 PM
In his first 6 seasons, P.Manning had a 62 competion percentage, and Ben had a 65. Manning never even averaged over 7.74 Yds per attempt in any of his first 6 seasons,,,While Ben set a NFL record for a rookie QB averaging 8.88 Yds per attempt. In his first 6 seasons Manning never had a QB rating over 98,,,Ben had a higher QB rating of 98 in 4 of his first 6 seasons. Manning never even SNIFFED a Super Bowl game in his first six seasons....while Ben LED us to TWO Super Bowl Victories!!




Here Endith the Lesson!!

Actually, Ben has a 63. Partly due to never passing more than 300 times in his 1st 2 seasons. He was on a good team from go and Manning was drafted by a bad team. (Enter the excuse the Steelers were 6-10 prior to Ben) we were 6-10 due to scheme and not talent. Again, Ben is on a better team than ANY qb in the league. However, IF Manning and Ben are both on the Steelers who is the starter? Do tell

Downbylaw
08-24-2010, 10:40 PM
I see reasoning with you will be a waste of time.

The only reason all those other starters were brought up is because Steelers fans don't automatically say their QB is top 5-10 when they are not.

If you don't like them, fine but don't make up your own facts like calling all of them back up journeymen. Sure...many were eventual back ups and played on several teams but all the ones I named were Steelers starters at some point.

They are all backup as stated despite having roles as starters at some point in their careers. We got Kordell in 95 and he was a BACKUP to Neil O'donnell until he started in 97-98. All of them were backups as stated.

Downbylaw
08-24-2010, 10:46 PM
He doesn't get it. his head is too buried in his facts.

He doesn't understand that the QB is the leader of the team and when you have someone who is considered a franchise QB, it gives the team hope. They believe in their captain. They always have a chance to win. He puts them on his spiritual back and carries their spirits.

Even though he won't be playing in the first 4 games, the teams spirits will still be carried by Ben. If he was gone for the whole season or traded, they might feel and play differently. As it is, they still have hope and will try to cover until their captain is ready.

Can a team win without a franchise QB? Yes...if there is some other leader...a coach...a player. Our leader is Ben. he is the general.

Even though he did not have a great game in Super Bowl 40, we would not have been there without him. I honestly believe he would have stepped up in that game if he had to. He just didn't have to.

Ryan Leaf was a franchise qb so was Bledsoe and many others. Its a label and doesnt necessarily mean the guy is great. Ben is NOT the leader of the offense, Hines Ward is. Ben only RECENTLY was named a captain. The leader of the D is Farrior and Polamalu. So you're telling me Ben has more clout with the Team than Hines? I say you are INCORRECT. Ben is NOT our leader, they barely like the guy, sorry to burst your bubble. Our leaders are Hines, Polamalu and Farrior. They work hard, stay after practice and do all the little things that Ben refuses to do. Is Ben one of the leaders? Yes, of course but Hines is the voice of the offense, BELIEVE that. SB 40 was evidence that we are a great team and it doesnt take much from the qb for us to win. SB 43 substantiated that as well as we were ahead 20-7 with our GENERAL only passing for 68 yards.

whatdoiknow
08-24-2010, 10:52 PM
The Steelers would easily take Ben over Manning. Manning is a " Dink & Dunk " QB, especially early on. He was never a winner or a leader early on either. Also, Ben is the highest rated QB in the 4th Quarter in NFL History! Oh and lets not forget in Pittsburgh, Manning would be DEAD playing behind our O-Line.



Face it son, you're a clueless Retard! And have NO Insight on football!

Downbylaw
08-24-2010, 11:01 PM
The Steelers would easily take Ben over Manning. Manning is a " Dink & Dunk " QB, especially early on. He was never a winner or a leader early on either. Also, Ben is the highest rated QB in the 4th Quarter in NFL History! Oh and lets not forget in Pittsburgh, Manning would be DEAD playing behind our O-Line.



Face it son, you're a clueless Retard! And have NO Insight on football!

Ben and Manning played on the same team in 07 and MANNING started for the AFC Pro Bowl team that season. Ben had his best statistical season that year too. How come he didnt start? Manning has MORE Mvps, more Pro Bowls and more 1st team All NFL selections. Ben has ONE Pro Bowl selection, zero Mvps (one TEAM Mvp) and zero All Pro selections. Yeah, I'm a retard but you are getting smoked by a retard so what does that make you? MRS BEN ROETHLISBERGER? lol

whatdoiknow
08-24-2010, 11:19 PM
Ben and Manning played on the same team in 07 and MANNING started for the AFC Pro Bowl team that season. Ben had his best statistical season that year too. How come he didnt start? Manning has MORE Mvps, more Pro Bowls and more 1st team All NFL selections. Ben has ONE Pro Bowl selection, zero Mvps (one TEAM Mvp) and zero All Pro selections. Yeah, I'm a retard but you are getting smoked by a retard so what does that make you? MRS BEN ROETHLISBERGER? lol




You're funny,,,I mean for an Idiot! Pro Bowls are fine and all, but they are nothing but a POPULARITY and Stat contest. Of course QB's like Manning, and Brees and Brady are gonna get the fans vote for the most part cause they all play on teams that throw alot more. As where the Steelers do not. But Ben was put on the Pro Bowl teams in the past by the Head Coaches, and not the fans per se, which says alot more about who is respected more. And MVP Awards are nice as well, but again are just awards based on PERSONAL Stats. You can have Manning, and have the MVP Award and Pro Bowl Vote Ins. I will Take Ben, and get SUPER BOWLS!

Downbylaw
08-24-2010, 11:30 PM
You're funny,,,I mean for an Idiot! Pro Bowls are fine and all, but they are nothing but a POPULARITY and Stat contest. Of course QB's like Manning, and Brees and Brady are gonna get the fans vote for the most part cause they all play on teams that throw alot more. As where the Steelers do not. But Ben was put on the Pro Bowl teams in the past by the Head Coaches, and not the fans per se, which says alot more about who is respected more. And MVP Awards are nice as well, but again are just awards based on PERSONAL Stats. You can have Manning, and have the MVP Award and Pro Bowl Vote Ins. I will Take Ben, and get SUPER BOWLS!

You sound like the unpopular kid in High School who didnt get voted onto the royal court. You downplay it because you werent included. Why do athletes get PRO BOWL INCENTIVES in their contracts? Because it is a great achievement. IF the players voted on the best qb you're telling me they are picking Ben? LOL OK HOMER PYLE.
You point out that Brady and Manning will get votes because they play on teams that "throw a lot more" so you downgrade them for having lofty stats because they throw more but yet earlier you praised Ben for having a higher completion pct. Why is that? YOU SAID IT because they throw more than Ben. You're not a very good debator are you? So NOW Ben is respected more by Head Coaches than Brady and Manning? Have you been smoking parsley? Of course Ben has Super Bowls he is on a better team than Brady and Manning. Look at Bens record vs Manning and Brady in the playoffs. Still want to continue this sir? Signed - The Retard

whatdoiknow
08-24-2010, 11:37 PM
More pass attempts equals better stats. It does not mean it equals a better QB. Ben may throw less, especially early on, but he is more Efficient! And Ben is a WINNER, and he didn't have Manning's O-Line, or did he have to CHEAT by getting Illegal practice tapes like Brady did!

Downbylaw
08-25-2010, 12:19 AM
More pass attempts equals better stats. It does not mean it equals a better QB. Ben may throw less, especially early on, but he is more Efficient! And Ben is a WINNER, and he didn't have Manning's O-Line, or did he have to CHEAT by getting Illegal practice tapes like Brady did!

Less pass attempts equals better completion pct. Kordell was a winner too ON THE STEELERS. Ben wins becuase he is on the STEELERS. If Ben was on the Lions would he have two rings? NO SIR. Colts were bums and thats how they got him. Take Manning off of the Colts and they pick in the top 5. Take Ben off of the Steelers we are still good. Get it? Did you see us take the Ravens to overtime without Ben? With a GREEN, 1st NFL starter with ONE practice with the starters under his belt? We outplayed the Ravens that game by the way. Take Manning off of the Colts and the Ravens blow them out. Thats the difference. Watch us go 4-0 without Ben. The Steelers are good. Get it?

Downbylaw
08-25-2010, 12:59 AM
The bigger problem that faces us is when Ben comes back we wont be able to use Dixon in special packages because If they use him before the fourth quarter, the other two QBs cannot go back into the game. In the 4th they can all play. That obviously wasnt a rule back when Slash (Kordell the bum) backed up Odonnell and Tomsczak. They should change it back.

whatdoiknow
08-25-2010, 01:19 AM
Less pass attempts equals better completion pct. Kordell was a winner too ON THE STEELERS. Ben wins becuase he is on the STEELERS. If Ben was on the Lions would he have two rings? NO SIR. Colts were bums and thats how they got him. Take Manning off of the Colts and they pick in the top 5. Take Ben off of the Steelers we are still good. Get it? Did you see us take the Ravens to overtime without Ben? With a GREEN, 1st NFL starter with ONE practice with the starters under his belt? We outplayed the Ravens that game by the way. Take Manning off of the Colts and the Ravens blow them out. Thats the difference. Watch us go 4-0 without Ben. The Steelers are good. Get it?




If Manning was on the Lions, would they have any rings ?...thought so! EVERY team need other parts. But the steelers have done more with less with Ben then Manning has with Indy. Any FOOL will tell you that. Ben is a better clutch player than Manning is..( Note the MANY Playoff losses Manning has had at his home )...and Ben can beat you in so many ways. As where if Manning doesn't get the protection, he is Ryan F'ing Leaf!

Downbylaw
08-25-2010, 01:29 AM
If Manning was on the Lions, would they have any rings ?...thought so! EVERY team need other parts. But the steelers have done more with less with Ben then Manning has with Indy. Any FOOL will tell you that. Ben is a better clutch player than Manning is..( Note the MANY Playoff losses Manning has had at his home )...and Ben can beat you in so many ways. As where if Manning doesn't get the protection, he is Ryan F'ing Leaf!

When Mannig got on the Colts they WERE the lions HOW do you think they got the BEST player in the draft. Peytons rookie year they were 3-13. After that nothing but success. Again, youre not a very good debator are you? Ben is on a better team than Manning. Manning has won the most games ever in 10 seasons. Add him to the Steelers and we have double digit Lombardies. Manning has lost in the playoff to great STEELER and Patriot teams and a good Saint team. Nothing to be ashamed of. So your arguement is that Ben is better than Peyton? Really? LOL

Downbylaw
08-25-2010, 01:34 AM
At youth football camps who is the prototypical model for young QB's? It certainly isnt Ben. It is Peyton. Or Brady or Brees or Montana, or Marino. etc

Downbylaw
08-25-2010, 02:20 AM
Enter the comments from the HOMER PYLES. "Dude all you have done is try to discredit everything that Ben has done" NO. All I have done is TOLD THE TRUTH about Ben and most of you cant handle the truth.

BlockMonsta
08-25-2010, 02:24 AM
Can you reduce this into one paragraph. thanks.

Steel_Bus_24
08-25-2010, 06:07 AM
Enter the comments from the HOMER PYLES. "Dude all you have done is try to discredit everything that Ben has done" NO. All I have done is TOLD THE TRUTH about Ben and most of you cant handle the truth.


dude you've done nothing or stated anything that we've haven't already heard/seen before

"game manager"," Lucky", "Has a great Defense" ect..ect.


Its the same old BS that every other hater throws up there who looks at the stats sheet too much

Downbylaw
08-25-2010, 07:56 AM
dude you've done nothing or stated anything that we've haven't already heard/seen before

"game manager"," Lucky", "Has a great Defense" ect..ect.


Its the same old BS that every other hater throws up there who looks at the stats sheet too much

The term hater is derived from jealousy. Ben is on my team am I jealous of him winning two rings for MY TEAM? Can you say Oxymoron? I'm not a Hater, I just dont think Ben is great. I think he is GOOD. The facts are BEN does have a great D how do you think Kordell won almost 50 games? Not on talent. How do you think that we almost won with GREEN Dixon. How do you think we won with Maddox? ITS THE STEELERS. I say the STEELERS are great and you say "NO ITS BEN".I know you are in denial buddy but you'll get over it. Lets take a look at bens stats vs Good defenses in his career shall we? This will prove to you HOMER PYLES that its the STEELERS that carry the team (What will you say when we go 3-1 or 4-0 WITHOUT Ben?Cant wait to hear the excuses lol)

Bens best stats are TEAM ones. Ben is so inconsistent that he barely squeeks out wins, I bet his defense loves that lol. Ben has made a CAREER of feasting off of average, mediocre or pityful defenses. But against top Defenses? He is mediocre. Lets take a look, shall we?


09

http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/team/_/stat/total/position/defense

Ravens #2 in Total Defense - Ben was 17-33 259 1 TD 1 int ELITE? HARDLY LOL Take away the 45 yard YAC by Wallace Ben is BELOW average vs. A GOOD D. TELLING. Ben produced 2 TD's

Packers #3- Ben did well vs. this Defense. 3rd overall BUT only TWELTH vs. the pass. Not to mention that TWO Dbs were injured for the Steelers game. Ben took advantage of a injured secondary (remember you HOMERS always cite Bens injury in 06 as an excuse so don't hate on me for doing the same thing). However, Ben played up to his abilities in this game. No problem with giving him credit on this day. Again- Exception to the rule

Vikings #4- 14-26 175 1 Td. ELITE? HARDLY. Again, Wallace Bails him out again with a fair catch TD of a punt. I mean pass by Ben. A pass Wallace had to stop, wave his hand and then catch. Ben produced 1 TD and 2fgs. THIRTEEN POINTS. Defense won this game.

#5 Bengals (2) Game 1- 22-31- 276 1 TD 1int. ELITE? Again, Wallace catches a long pass that should have been SIX but the inconsistent one led him out of bounds with the poor pass. The inconsistent one also overthrew a wide open Hines for six as well as Tone for six. Yes Limas dropped a Td that was like George Washingtons face- On The Money. But WHY does that failed TD get more recognition than the THREE that Ben failed on? Ben produced TWO TD's.


#5 Bengals Game 2. 20-40- 171 1 INT ELITE? He was sacked four times and his passer rating of 51.5 was his lowest since a 38.6 in a loss to the Giants (ANOTHER GOOD D) Ben produced NO TD's.

#7 Broncos- 21-29- 233 3TD's 1 int. These stats were aided by a strong performance from our Defense. Tyrone took one to the house. The Defense also got 2 more picks to put us in position to score and Ben took advantage of the good field position and got tds. This is how you utilize a strong D. You reward them by executing well and putting the dagger into the oppposition by scoring TD's. Notice how the game wasn't close? That's how MOST of our games should be, considering the strength of our D.

Now contrast These stats to the TEN games vs. poor defenses. NOW do you see where Ben did his damage at? Excluding the Packer game of course. He played EXCELLENT that game!



08

http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/team/_/stat/total/position/defense/year/2008

#2 Ravens (2)- Game 1 Ben was 14-24-191 1 TD 1 INT Sacked 3 Times. Benefited from ANOTHER TD from the defense (Woodley). Benefited from Tone taking a short pass and making it a big play/yac. Hines Also had a 49 yard catch and run, that bolstered Bens pedestrian stats. Having said that, they were still pedestrian despite that. ONE TD Produced by your ELITE qb.

Game 2 vs. Ravens 22-40-246 1TD Sacked 3 Times. ELITE? Hardly. The defense held the Ravens to NINE points and all we could muster was 13. Last second pass to Tone for the TD was clutch but long overdue. The Ravens shouldn't have even been in this game. Ben also lost a fumble this game. ONE TD. ELITE?? LOL

#3 Eagles- The inconsistent one was 13-25-131 1 INT 2 lost fumbles and EIGHT SACKS LOL. Ben produced TWO fgs and gave them 2 more points with a BONEHEADED safety in the end zone. Slow to process the info (Did the same thing vs. the Browns in 09 by the goaline. Took a terrible sack). Leftwich had almost half Bens yardage in ONE drive. He burnt the blitz over and over. Made Jim Johnson stop blitzing. If Nate catches the TD Leftwich throws him that game would have been winnable.

#4 Skins- Ben got hurt late 2nd qtr. So he only played one half. He benefited from a blocked punt. He still played poorly. He was 5- 17- 50 yards and 1 INT and was sacked 5 times.. Leftwich comes in and he goes 7-10-129 and 1 TD not sacked once. Not saying Byron is better. He can just read a defense, faster.

#5 Giants- 13-29-199 1 TD FOUR INTS and 1 lost fumble. Also sacked FIVE times. Ben played like crap in this game and we STILL should have won. We were leading until the Harrison safety. An example of how our STRONG Defense aids Ben.

#7 Titans- 25-39-329 2 TD's 2INT's 5 SACKS, 2 lost Fumbles (one on the Titans ONE). Again, our defense put us in position to win this game but LETHARGIC one made it impossible to do so. The Griffin pick six was the nail in the coffin. UGH

#8 Cowboys- Ben 17-33-204 1TD, 5 sacks and 1 lost fumble. Ben could only produce two fgs. It was the DEFENSE on the int by Ike that set up Heaths td from ben. Townsends pick 6 won the game. Ben again putrid vs. a good defense.

#10 Pats 17-33-179 2TDS 1 INT 1 lost fumble. With no Brady the Pats were no match for our team. We controlled the ball and ran all over them. Kinda like the 04 game with Plax (reg season).Mewelde and Willie were the reasons for this win. Ben, AGAIN, played mediocre vs. a good D. SEE A PATTERN?

#11 Colts- Ben was 29-41-3INTS and 2 sacks. Worth noting-Peyton was 21-40-240 and 3 TD's. VS THE #1 DEFENSE.

Vs #2 Ravens AFCCG 16-33-255-1TD, 1 fumble lost and 4 sacks. We won this game based on the int by Polamalu and the great YAC by Tone.

07

http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/team/_/stat/total/position/defense/year/2007

#4 Pats- 19-32-187- 1 TD, 3 sacks and 1 fumble lost ( Brady was 32-46-399- 4TD's VS THE # 1 D

#6 Ravens (2) Game 1 Ben- 13-16-209 5 TD's. Monday Night game in those UGLY throwbacks. It was an epic game by Ben. Again, there is always an exception to every rule. Hats off Ben played GREAT.

Ravens Game 2- Ben sat out-resting for playoffs.

#12 Jags- 15-32-142- 3 TD's and 5 sacks. A classic case of too little too late as the LETHARGIC one only generates SEVEN points through 3 qtrs. Plays up to his potential in the 4th. Too late.

#12 Jags in playoffs-The inconsistent one does the same thing he did in the Regular season vs. this D. Plays horrible early and comes on strong late to make the HOMERS forget about the pick 6 he threw to Mathis. Stats Ben- 29-42-337 2 TD's, 3 INT's AND SIX sacks and 1 lost fumble. I remember after this game the Steeler Nation attacked Tomlin for going for two points after the holding call. That call didn't lose the game. Ben's horrible 1st half did. You can NEVER get points back. But as usual, Ben can do no wrong. LOL

You NOW know why Ben had such a good statistical season in 07. NO GOOD DEFENSES ON THE SCHEDULE. Contrast that with 08. SEE THE DIFFERENCE?

06

http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/team/_/stat/total/position/defense/year/2006

#1 Ravens Game 1 Ben 21-41-214 and 2 INT's, NINE SACKS and one fumble lost for a TD. A. Thomas. The Ravens shut us out. The inconsistent one AGAIN, struggles against a top D.

#1 Ravens Game 2 Ben 15-31-156 1TD and 2INT's, 5 SACKS. So in TWO games vs. the #1 D he had ONE TD and FOUR INTS. I KNOW I KNOW he was hurt. LOL

#2 Jags-17-32-141 0 TD's and 2 INT'S. 2 Sack. Ben continued his trend of hitting his favorite receiver (Rashean Mathis) who picked him twice- AGAIN. Inconsistent Ben produced ZERO points in this game. I know I know "HE WAS HURT HE WAS HURT"


#3 Raiders Ben was 25-37-301 1TD and FOUR ints. And 5 sacks. Including TWO pick six's. Didn't I say Ben has HABITUALLY sucked in the redzone his WHOLE career? FACT. I know I know. HE WAS ALMOST KILLED IN JUNE. LOL. Worth Noting- the opposing qb (Walter) was 5-14-51 yards and one int. AND HE WON. I bet the DEFENSE was ticked off at the inconsistent ONE LOL. Elite Ben managed THIRTEEN points.

#7 Carolina Ben was 10-17-125 1 TD and 3 sacks.

#10 Chargers 20-31-220 2 INTS and 5 Sacks. You guys this is too easy. You CANT use the excuse that "he was hurt". or it was Arians, or the line. I am proving that Ben is what I say he is. A good qb that plays with a strong defense. He puts up ok numbers vs. Good defenses or he sucks royally vs. them. This with Arians, Whiz, Good Line, Average Line, "Bad Line".



05


http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/team/_/stat/total/position/defense/year/2005

#2 Bears 13-20-173 1TD zero sacks.

#5 Ravens Game 1 18-30-177 2TD's, 1 INT.2 sacks. I'm waiting for this guy to LIGHT UP AN ELITE D. YAWN

#5 Ravens Game 2 (Didn't play)

#11 Colts 17-26-133 1 TD 2INTS, 3 sacks.

#11 Colts playoffs 14-24-197 2TD's, 1 INT,2 sacks. Ben started off fast. I was loving this game. Then in the 2nd half the inconsistent one surfaced. Managed 7 WHOLE points the 2nd half. ENTER EXCUSES (Cowher, Whiz) . Ben made a great tackle on a STUPID Bettis fumble. PROPS FOR THAT!!


04

http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/team/_/stat/total/position/defense/year/2004

#3 Skins Super Ben was 9-20-131 NO TD's O INTS. 4 Sacks

#6 Ravens. The 1st Raven game was when Ben got his chance after Maddox got hurt. These stats are from game 2 vs. the Ravens. 14-19-221 2 TD's 1 INT. O Sacks

#7 Jets- 9-19-144 0 TD's 2INT's.

#9 Pats (reg season) 18-24-196 2 TD's 0 sacks. I remember this game! Nice Long ball to Plax. Ben played well. Int by Townsend- to the house. We controlled the ball for most of the game. If I recall right it was like 40 minutes.

#9 Pats (AFCCG) 14-24-226 2 TD's 3 INT's 1 Sack. Ben was a rookie and he played like it. UGH. Call it cheating, call it whatever but Ben sucked in this game like HIS PATTERN vs. elite defenses.



There you have it HOMER PYLES. As I have PROVED. Ben Roethlisberger makes a living feasting off of bad defenses. Put him up against an elite one and he is not so elite as I have ALWAYS said. He wins BECAUSE OF HIS DEFENSE and because he is on the Steelers. Do explain all of this HARCORE proof as to his pedestrian or pathetic stats vs. a good defense. I didn't just list random numbers, I listed teams and years so you could CALL MY BLUFF. I dont just take ONE SEASON (BENS STATISTICAL BEST). I take his whole career and BURY YOU WITH THE TRUTH. Who cares what you say about Peyton. Waste your time. He is BETTER THAN BEN. There is a concensus on that. So it Brady,Favre and Brees. But thats not so Bad now is it?

Downbylaw
08-25-2010, 11:15 PM
SILENCE OF THE LAMBS LOL

whatdoiknow
08-26-2010, 01:54 AM
SILENCE OF THE LAMBS LOL




No. More like TRIED of your Unintellectual BS!! :blah::blah::blah:

SacknificentStew56
08-26-2010, 02:14 AM
I agree with Rod Woodson that we should start Dixon but the job won't be given to him, of course. As long as Dixon doesn't pull a "Slash" and blows the game for us, i'm fine with him behind the gun instead of Lefty.

Downbylaw
08-26-2010, 02:25 AM
No. More like TRIED of your Unintellectual BS!! :blah::blah::blah:

Dont shoot the messenger. I just posted STATISTICAL PROOF that your idol is not elite. Thats not a bad thing is it? He is still a winner (As long as hes on a good team. Put him on the lions and OH BOY)

SacknificentStew56
08-26-2010, 03:01 AM
I'm starting to question your loyalty to the Nation. Put Peyton Manning and Tom Brady (spits after saying their names) on the Lions and Oh boy as well. Check out the link below of Ben's under his NFL records, franchise records, and comeback wins including Super Bowl 43 and then find me a "non-elite" QB with half of his accomplishments.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ben_Roethlisberger

Dont shoot the messenger. I just posted STATISTICAL PROOF that your idol is not elite. Thats not a bad thing is it? He is still a winner (As long as hes on a good team. Put him on the lions and OH BOY)

Downbylaw
08-26-2010, 04:49 AM
I'm starting to question your loyalty to the Nation. Put Peyton Manning and Tom Brady (spits after saying their names) on the Lions and Oh boy as well. Check out the link below of Ben's under his NFL records, franchise records, and comeback wins including Super Bowl 43 and then find me a "non-elite" QB with half of his accomplishments.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ben_Roethlisberger

I wonder if you question the loyalty of those in the Steeler Nation who criticize Arians or Tomlin or Leftwich? Or are those guys FAIR GAME but Ben is OFF LIMITS? Do explain. If you think Ben is better than Brady, Manning, Favre, Brees etc then more power to you, I do not. Do you think that Tomlin is a better coach than Mike Shanahan? Bellichick? etc Do you think Arians is a better OC than The Colts OC? Saints? Eagles? etc
You mentioned Bens franchise records. Make no mistake about it, Terry Bradshaw is the BEST Qb that we have had (ironic Terry hates Ben) Ben has franchise records because Bradshaw played in a running system. Its like Saying Hines is better than Stallworth because he has more Steeler records. Different time and Different era. How many times did the Bradshaw led STeelers miss the playoffs after winning a Super Bowl? Ben has done it twice (the only ever to do that; Hows that for a record to go with his SB futility record). Ben has ONE TD and THREE ints in two Super Bowls. Sorry if Im not gushing all over him for those putrid stats. You mentioned comebacks? Uh, when you have a GREAT defense, WHY do you have to comeback? How many comebacks did Bradshaw have? Not many and do you know why? Because he executed and was consistent and got the lead and let his defense do the rest. He put enough points on the board to seal the deal, EARLY. Ben putt putts for 3 qtrs and then plays up to his ability in the 4th qtr. There is no honor in coming back when you have a number 1 rated defense. If anything a comeback is a knock against Ben. Comebacks are a good stat if you have a bad defense like Elway, Marino etc. But a tod D? Come on bro

Downbylaw
08-26-2010, 06:43 AM
He questions my loyalty to the Steeler Nation when I have listed every game of Ben's career so its obvious that I watched those games. What NON FAN watches every game of a team he doesnt like? YIKES!

vasteeler
08-26-2010, 07:47 AM
another thread that went to hell

SacknificentStew56
08-26-2010, 09:45 AM
Exactly!!

another thread that went to hell

Downbylaw
08-26-2010, 11:58 AM
Hint: Dont read.

scsteeler
08-26-2010, 05:05 PM
Looks Like Dixon may get his shot.



Tomlin: Dixon will take first-team reps for Steelers

Posted: August 26th, 2010 | Frank Tadych | Tags: Pittsburgh Steelers, Mike Tomlin, Byron Leftwich, Dennis Dixon, Frank Tadych

Steelers coach Mike Tomlin recently went on the record in saying Dennis Dixon was in line to take some first-team reps, and he’s staying true to his word.

It also was noteworthy when Tomlin said Dixon would have to take the starting quarterback job if he wanted it. We’re about to see if that happens.
Unlock HQ Video HQ video delivered by Akamai

On Wednesday, Tomlin revealed Dixon will indeed take reps with the first-team offense against the Denver Broncos on Sunday.

“I intend to give Dennis some looks with the first group against some good people,” Tomlin said, per the team’s official Web site. ”I think he’s earned that. And that’s what this preseason is about.”

Dixon has done nothing to slow the debate about who should start in Ben Roethlisberger’s absence to start the season, posting excellent numbers — against opponents’ backups — during the preseason in his competition with Byron Leftwich.

Time to see if Dixon can loosen the grip that Leftwich appears to have on the starting job.


http://blogs.nfl.com/2010/08/26/tomlin-dixon-will-take-first-team-reps-for-steelers/

steelerchad
08-29-2010, 08:31 PM
Cause the simple fact is...Lefty Sucks!! I mean when he is in the game, the other teams Defense just tee's off on him cause he is so slow, and has no escape ability whatsoever! Also considering Flozell Adams looks so horrible, we NEED a QB who can scramble out of trouble once Adams man passes him faster than " Paris Hilton " can say YES to Sex! :applaudit:


Please Tomlin,,,grow a Brain!! And start Dixon!!


To answer the question that is your screen name.... not much.

Downbylaw
08-29-2010, 08:34 PM
lol

MasterOfPuppets
08-29-2010, 08:44 PM
dixon is showing today why they brought lefty back. stupid decision making.

LVSteelersfan
08-29-2010, 08:57 PM
Just like I have been saying. A few splash plays. A bunch of three and outs. Bad decisions in the red zone. A .500 team if they are lucky with someone like Dixon at QB.

Dixon is:

http://copper-desert-llc.tripod.com/fail_boat.jpg

ETL
08-29-2010, 09:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by whatdoiknow
Cause the simple fact is...Lefty Sucks!! I mean when he is in the game, the other teams Defense just tee's off on him cause he is so slow, and has no escape ability whatsoever! Also considering Flozell Adams looks so horrible, we NEED a QB who can scramble out of trouble once Adams man passes him faster than " Paris Hilton " can say YES to Sex!

Please Tomlin,,,grow a Brain!! And start Dixon!!


To answer the question that is your screen name.... not much.

100% agreed SteelerChad. "Brainless" Tomlin must have lucked himself into winning a super bowl

StainlessStill
08-29-2010, 10:11 PM
SILENCE OF THE LAMBS LOL

Really dude? Silence of the Lambs? HUH? Listen, your jibberish has gone too far and no matter how bad you want to stretch for straws and get your point across (what was it again?) it doesn't change the fact that Ben is our franchise, gives us the best opportunity to win championships and has a style that fits perfect within the way Steelers play ball. Like I said, if you can't see that, then there's no where else this conversation can go. Keep pulling out your little jibberish arguments, it simply doesn't work in the face of FACT. Trying too hard is one thing, but clearly your delusion of some sort towards Ben is something that can no longer be arguable.

StainlessStill
08-29-2010, 10:27 PM
The term hater is derived from jealousy. Ben is on my team am I jealous of him winning two rings for MY TEAM? Can you say Oxymoron? I'm not a Hater, I just dont think Ben is great. I think he is GOOD. The facts are BEN does have a great D how do you think Kordell won almost 50 games? Not on talent. How do you think that we almost won with GREEN Dixon. How do you think we won with Maddox? ITS THE STEELERS. I say the STEELERS are great and you say "NO ITS BEN".I know you are in denial buddy but you'll get over it. Lets take a look at bens stats vs Good defenses in his career shall we? This will prove to you HOMER PYLES that its the STEELERS that carry the team (What will you say when we go 3-1 or 4-0 WITHOUT Ben?Cant wait to hear the excuses lol)

Bens best stats are TEAM ones. Ben is so inconsistent that he barely squeeks out wins, I bet his defense loves that lol. Ben has made a CAREER of feasting off of average, mediocre or pityful defenses. But against top Defenses? He is mediocre. Lets take a look, shall we?



09

http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/team/_/stat/total/position/defense

Ravens #2 in Total Defense - Ben was 17-33 259 1 TD 1 int ELITE? HARDLY LOL Take away the 45 yard YAC by Wallace Ben is BELOW average vs. A GOOD D. TELLING. Ben produced 2 TD's

Packers #3- Ben did well vs. this Defense. 3rd overall BUT only TWELTH vs. the pass. Not to mention that TWO Dbs were injured for the Steelers game. Ben took advantage of a injured secondary (remember you HOMERS always cite Bens injury in 06 as an excuse so don't hate on me for doing the same thing). However, Ben played up to his abilities in this game. No problem with giving him credit on this day. Again- Exception to the rule

Vikings #4- 14-26 175 1 Td. ELITE? HARDLY. Again, Wallace Bails him out again with a fair catch TD of a punt. I mean pass by Ben. A pass Wallace had to stop, wave his hand and then catch. Ben produced 1 TD and 2fgs. THIRTEEN POINTS. Defense won this game.

#5 Bengals (2) Game 1- 22-31- 276 1 TD 1int. ELITE? Again, Wallace catches a long pass that should have been SIX but the inconsistent one led him out of bounds with the poor pass. The inconsistent one also overthrew a wide open Hines for six as well as Tone for six. Yes Limas dropped a Td that was like George Washingtons face- On The Money. But WHY does that failed TD get more recognition than the THREE that Ben failed on? Ben produced TWO TD's.


#5 Bengals Game 2. 20-40- 171 1 INT ELITE? He was sacked four times and his passer rating of 51.5 was his lowest since a 38.6 in a loss to the Giants (ANOTHER GOOD D) Ben produced NO TD's.

#7 Broncos- 21-29- 233 3TD's 1 int. These stats were aided by a strong performance from our Defense. Tyrone took one to the house. The Defense also got 2 more picks to put us in position to score and Ben took advantage of the good field position and got tds. This is how you utilize a strong D. You reward them by executing well and putting the dagger into the oppposition by scoring TD's. Notice how the game wasn't close? That's how MOST of our games should be, considering the strength of our D.

Now contrast These stats to the TEN games vs. poor defenses. NOW do you see where Ben did his damage at? Excluding the Packer game of course. He played EXCELLENT that game!



08

http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/team/_/stat/total/position/defense/year/2008

#2 Ravens (2)- Game 1 Ben was 14-24-191 1 TD 1 INT Sacked 3 Times. Benefited from ANOTHER TD from the defense (Woodley). Benefited from Tone taking a short pass and making it a big play/yac. Hines Also had a 49 yard catch and run, that bolstered Bens pedestrian stats. Having said that, they were still pedestrian despite that. ONE TD Produced by your ELITE qb.

Game 2 vs. Ravens 22-40-246 1TD Sacked 3 Times. ELITE? Hardly. The defense held the Ravens to NINE points and all we could muster was 13. Last second pass to Tone for the TD was clutch but long overdue. The Ravens shouldn't have even been in this game. Ben also lost a fumble this game. ONE TD. ELITE?? LOL

#3 Eagles- The inconsistent one was 13-25-131 1 INT 2 lost fumbles and EIGHT SACKS LOL. Ben produced TWO fgs and gave them 2 more points with a BONEHEADED safety in the end zone. Slow to process the info (Did the same thing vs. the Browns in 09 by the goaline. Took a terrible sack). Leftwich had almost half Bens yardage in ONE drive. He burnt the blitz over and over. Made Jim Johnson stop blitzing. If Nate catches the TD Leftwich throws him that game would have been winnable.

#4 Skins- Ben got hurt late 2nd qtr. So he only played one half. He benefited from a blocked punt. He still played poorly. He was 5- 17- 50 yards and 1 INT and was sacked 5 times.. Leftwich comes in and he goes 7-10-129 and 1 TD not sacked once. Not saying Byron is better. He can just read a defense, faster.

#5 Giants- 13-29-199 1 TD FOUR INTS and 1 lost fumble. Also sacked FIVE times. Ben played like crap in this game and we STILL should have won. We were leading until the Harrison safety. An example of how our STRONG Defense aids Ben.

#7 Titans- 25-39-329 2 TD's 2INT's 5 SACKS, 2 lost Fumbles (one on the Titans ONE). Again, our defense put us in position to win this game but LETHARGIC one made it impossible to do so. The Griffin pick six was the nail in the coffin. UGH

#8 Cowboys- Ben 17-33-204 1TD, 5 sacks and 1 lost fumble. Ben could only produce two fgs. It was the DEFENSE on the int by Ike that set up Heaths td from ben. Townsends pick 6 won the game. Ben again putrid vs. a good defense.

#10 Pats 17-33-179 2TDS 1 INT 1 lost fumble. With no Brady the Pats were no match for our team. We controlled the ball and ran all over them. Kinda like the 04 game with Plax (reg season).Mewelde and Willie were the reasons for this win. Ben, AGAIN, played mediocre vs. a good D. SEE A PATTERN?

#11 Colts- Ben was 29-41-3INTS and 2 sacks. Worth noting-Peyton was 21-40-240 and 3 TD's. VS THE #1 DEFENSE.

Vs #2 Ravens AFCCG 16-33-255-1TD, 1 fumble lost and 4 sacks. We won this game based on the int by Polamalu and the great YAC by Tone.

07

http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/team/_/stat/total/position/defense/year/2007

#4 Pats- 19-32-187- 1 TD, 3 sacks and 1 fumble lost ( Brady was 32-46-399- 4TD's VS THE # 1 D

#6 Ravens (2) Game 1 Ben- 13-16-209 5 TD's. Monday Night game in those UGLY throwbacks. It was an epic game by Ben. Again, there is always an exception to every rule. Hats off Ben played GREAT.

Ravens Game 2- Ben sat out-resting for playoffs.

#12 Jags- 15-32-142- 3 TD's and 5 sacks. A classic case of too little too late as the LETHARGIC one only generates SEVEN points through 3 qtrs. Plays up to his potential in the 4th. Too late.

#12 Jags in playoffs-The inconsistent one does the same thing he did in the Regular season vs. this D. Plays horrible early and comes on strong late to make the HOMERS forget about the pick 6 he threw to Mathis. Stats Ben- 29-42-337 2 TD's, 3 INT's AND SIX sacks and 1 lost fumble. I remember after this game the Steeler Nation attacked Tomlin for going for two points after the holding call. That call didn't lose the game. Ben's horrible 1st half did. You can NEVER get points back. But as usual, Ben can do no wrong. LOL

You NOW know why Ben had such a good statistical season in 07. NO GOOD DEFENSES ON THE SCHEDULE. Contrast that with 08. SEE THE DIFFERENCE?

06

http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/team/_/stat/total/position/defense/year/2006

#1 Ravens Game 1 Ben 21-41-214 and 2 INT's, NINE SACKS and one fumble lost for a TD. A. Thomas. The Ravens shut us out. The inconsistent one AGAIN, struggles against a top D.

#1 Ravens Game 2 Ben 15-31-156 1TD and 2INT's, 5 SACKS. So in TWO games vs. the #1 D he had ONE TD and FOUR INTS. I KNOW I KNOW he was hurt. LOL

#2 Jags-17-32-141 0 TD's and 2 INT'S. 2 Sack. Ben continued his trend of hitting his favorite receiver (Rashean Mathis) who picked him twice- AGAIN. Inconsistent Ben produced ZERO points in this game. I know I know "HE WAS HURT HE WAS HURT"


#3 Raiders Ben was 25-37-301 1TD and FOUR ints. And 5 sacks. Including TWO pick six's. Didn't I say Ben has HABITUALLY sucked in the redzone his WHOLE career? FACT. I know I know. HE WAS ALMOST KILLED IN JUNE. LOL. Worth Noting- the opposing qb (Walter) was 5-14-51 yards and one int. AND HE WON. I bet the DEFENSE was ticked off at the inconsistent ONE LOL. Elite Ben managed THIRTEEN points.

#7 Carolina Ben was 10-17-125 1 TD and 3 sacks.

#10 Chargers 20-31-220 2 INTS and 5 Sacks. You guys this is too easy. You CANT use the excuse that "he was hurt". or it was Arians, or the line. I am proving that Ben is what I say he is. A good qb that plays with a strong defense. He puts up ok numbers vs. Good defenses or he sucks royally vs. them. This with Arians, Whiz, Good Line, Average Line, "Bad Line".



05


http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/team/_/stat/total/position/defense/year/2005

#2 Bears 13-20-173 1TD zero sacks.

#5 Ravens Game 1 18-30-177 2TD's, 1 INT.2 sacks. I'm waiting for this guy to LIGHT UP AN ELITE D. YAWN

#5 Ravens Game 2 (Didn't play)

#11 Colts 17-26-133 1 TD 2INTS, 3 sacks.

#11 Colts playoffs 14-24-197 2TD's, 1 INT,2 sacks. Ben started off fast. I was loving this game. Then in the 2nd half the inconsistent one surfaced. Managed 7 WHOLE points the 2nd half. ENTER EXCUSES (Cowher, Whiz) . Ben made a great tackle on a STUPID Bettis fumble. PROPS FOR THAT!!


04

http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/team/_/stat/total/position/defense/year/2004

#3 Skins Super Ben was 9-20-131 NO TD's O INTS. 4 Sacks

#6 Ravens. The 1st Raven game was when Ben got his chance after Maddox got hurt. These stats are from game 2 vs. the Ravens. 14-19-221 2 TD's 1 INT. O Sacks

#7 Jets- 9-19-144 0 TD's 2INT's.

#9 Pats (reg season) 18-24-196 2 TD's 0 sacks. I remember this game! Nice Long ball to Plax. Ben played well. Int by Townsend- to the house. We controlled the ball for most of the game. If I recall right it was like 40 minutes.

#9 Pats (AFCCG) 14-24-226 2 TD's 3 INT's 1 Sack. Ben was a rookie and he played like it. UGH. Call it cheating, call it whatever but Ben sucked in this game like HIS PATTERN vs. elite defenses.



There you have it HOMER PYLES. As I have PROVED. Ben Roethlisberger makes a living feasting off of bad defenses. Put him up against an elite one and he is not so elite as I have ALWAYS said. He wins BECAUSE OF HIS DEFENSE and because he is on the Steelers. Do explain all of this HARCORE proof as to his pedestrian or pathetic stats vs. a good defense. I didn't just list random numbers, I listed teams and years so you could CALL MY BLUFF. I dont just take ONE SEASON (BENS STATISTICAL BEST). I take his whole career and BURY YOU WITH THE TRUTH. Who cares what you say about Peyton. Waste your time. He is BETTER THAN BEN. There is a concensus on that. So it Brady,Favre and Brees. But thats not so Bad now is it?

What the hell are you even talking about? This proves nothing to your silly little beliefs. Your posting moronic statements like "It's the Steelers that carry Bens stats LOL" and inconsistent blabble of that nature. Bens stats are team stats? I've heard it all from haters. You my friend, are a hater. There are no exuses, in fact, your the one that wants to so badly get your inane point across that you come off as an intellgient football fan who's trying too hard.

So, in your form of "elite" Ben has to go 100/100 (every game) convert EVERY third down, and pass for atleast 5 touchdowns a game and do it against the best defense's in the league unless it doesn't count. AND he has to go out there alone because if he doesn't it's "TEAM" stats. GTFO. You're little number system that you put together doesn't tell the whole story of what Ben means to our team whether how bad you want to turn it into your favor, which is a losing battle. I am not officially out of this thread for good. My IQ is dropping.

Downbylaw
08-29-2010, 10:36 PM
Uh for the record they are Bens OFFICIAL stats. Dont shoot the messenger. Manning Carries the Colts, Brees carries the Saints, Brady carries the Pats. The DEFENSE carry the Steelers. Whats wrong with that? Ben is good, sorry haters don't say that.

mikegrimey
08-29-2010, 10:45 PM
See people this is why it doesn't pay to be so reactionary. Myself and a few others correctly pointed out during the first and second preseason games that Dixon was playing against backups and to wait until he did it against the starters to be going gaga over him. I think it's safe to say that Dixon really hurt his chances to be starting after this game.

StainlessStill
08-29-2010, 10:47 PM
Uh for the record they are Bens OFFICIAL stats. Dont shoot the messenger. Manning Carries the Colts, Brees carries the Saints, Brady carries the Pats. The DEFENSE carry the Steelers. Whats wrong with that? Ben is good, sorry haters don't say that.

Obviously, you don't understand the types of systems that are run alas Colts system VS a Steelers system. The Colts system is completley BUILT around the passing game and rides the arm of Manning. Same with Brees and Brady, traditional drop pack, ryhtmic passers who need their time to read their read and deliver. The Steelers have a more of a balanced attack and use their complimentary backs and running game to keep a defense off balanced, and this allows a gamer like Ben to step up in there, and make things happen if things aren't there.

Get in Brady/Manning/Bree's face & they are done. Disrupt their timing and ryth, they fall to the ground. Ben normally has to throw the ball only 20-30 some a game and Arians is JUST NOW opening up the play book to where Ben can have the opportunity to put up such numbers as a Brady or Manning. But clearly, Ben is a different style of improvise quarterback, which is 10 X dangerous.

You're whole argument is just weak and you fail to see the overall picture. You can pull of stats on Bens 3rd down conversions all day long, those stats still don't tell the story of how games were won and Ben wins in dramatic fashion.

I guess in Manning/Brady/Brees case, give 10000% credit to their offensive line, who OBVIOUSLY give them enough time to not even get sacked. I guess they are "team stats" as well.. whatever that means.

cloppbeast
08-29-2010, 10:56 PM
See people this is why it doesn't pay to be so reactionary. Myself and a few others correctly pointed out during the first and second preseason games that Dixon was playing against backups and to wait until he did it against the starters to be going gaga over him. I think it's safe to say that Dixon really hurt his chances to be starting after this game.

IF Leftwich would have done better. Leftwich looked just as bad. The only 'clarity' we really got from this game is we're pretty much screwed until Ben comes back.

On a positive note though, the offensive line looked uncharacteristically good. Of course, they were playing against a weak front seven. But still....

mikegrimey
08-29-2010, 11:01 PM
Obviously, you don't understand the types of systems that are run alas Colts system VS a Steelers system. The Colts system is completley BUILT around the passing game and rides the arm of Manning. Same with Brees and Brady, traditional drop pack, ryhtmic passers who need their time to read their read and deliver. The Steelers have a more of a balanced attack and use their complimentary backs and running game to keep a defense off balanced, and this allows a gamer like Ben to step up in there, and make things happen if things aren't there.

Get in Brady/Manning/Bree's face & they are done. Disrupt their timing and ryth, they fall to the ground. Ben normally has to throw the ball only 20-30 some a game and Arians is JUST NOW opening up the play book to where Ben can have the opportunity to put up such numbers as a Brady or Manning. But clearly, Ben is a different style of improvise quarterback, which is 10 X dangerous.

You're whole argument is just weak and you fail to see the overall picture. You can pull of stats on Bens 3rd down conversions all day long, those stats still don't tell the story of how games were won and Ben wins in dramatic fashion.

I guess in Manning/Brady/Brees case, give 10000% credit to their offensive line, who OBVIOUSLY give them enough time to not even get sacked. I guess they are "team stats" as well.. whatever that means.

I have no clue where the myth of Tom Brady not being able to throw with pressure in his face came from. I'll concede that he started the whining and clamoring for flags stuff last year, but prior to that he had been known for his ability to stand in the pocket, take a hit, and deliver an accurate pass. The Patriots have some good olinemen but they've never seemed to be "the dominant" unit on the team. In fact their offense in its entirety was pretty plebian during their 3 Superbowl Runs (not a bad offense but not great either sort of like the Steelers in 08. Once they got that dominating offense they haven't won a SB, funny) the defense was the unit primarily responsible for the 3 SB's.
Anyway my point was, outside of last year, you can't really say that Brady had trouble with pressure consistently, he was great at taking it and delivering anyway.

mikegrimey
08-29-2010, 11:07 PM
IF Leftwich would have done better. Leftwich looked just as bad. The only 'clarity' we really got from this game is we're pretty much screwed until Ben comes back.

On a positive note though, the offensive line looked uncharacteristically good. Of course, they were playing against a weak front seven. But still....


You have to consider that Leftwich is a veteran and there is a little more "clarity" as to how he will play when he starts for us.

Plus Leftwich didn't chuck a redzone INT and another near redzone pick 6, despite the fact that he went 0/4. It's a pretty safe bet that the coaching staff is going to go with the known veteran instead of the youngster who just played terribly in his big chance.

It was recognized that tonight would be Dixon's big chance and with the preformance he just turned in his once strong troop of supporters probably disbanded and went scurrying to the next unknown/unproven backup they can endorse. A lot of us were hoping for better but hey at least Dixon got a fair shot.

StainlessStill
08-29-2010, 11:08 PM
I have no clue where the myth of Tom Brady not being able to throw with pressure in his face came from. I'll concede that he started the whining and clamoring for flags stuff last year, but prior to that he had been known for his ability to stand in the pocket, take a hit, and deliver an accurate pass. The Patriots have some good olinemen but they've never seemed to be "the dominant" unit on the team. In fact their offense in its entirety was pretty plebian during their 3 Superbowl Runs (not a bad offense but not great either sort of like the Steelers in 08. Once they got that dominating offense they haven't won a SB, funny) the defense was the unit primarily responsible for the 3 SB's.
Anyway my point was, outside of last year, you can't really say that Brady had trouble with pressure consistently, he was great at taking it and delivering anyway.

New England pretty much is an offense ran with the underneath and piles off most of their yardage with RAC's. When there's nowhere to go with the ball, I've literally seen Brady just fall to the ground. Disrupt him and he folds like a lawn chair. Same with Manning. Take them out of their rhytm and they are mediocre at best.

Thing is, their offensive lines are so good, they stand back there with a good 7-9 sec's to throw the football and get sacked what? 9 times a year? They have player personal around them for them to step up and scheme short yardage plays that set up the long ball while a Pittsburgh offense is a grind it out offense to where the running game sets up the pass. Of course, that could change this season once Ben gets back because Arian's is finally letting Ben control things more and when he did, like last season, he throws for over 4,000 yards with 2 WR's with 1,000 as well. Pretty impressive.

mikegrimey
08-29-2010, 11:13 PM
Although I agree with you that everyone's preformance tonight made it all the more evident that we're going to be glad to have Ben back.

Still, Leftwich is probably the most capable of bouncing back from a forgettable preseason. He's the better choice to "manage" a game, we just need our defense and running game to take enough pressure off to not have to play from behind alot. It looked obvious that Dixon was trying too hard, we wouldn't want that in the real season.

pancake
08-30-2010, 12:54 AM
I think this thread will lose it's steam now.