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View Full Version : its getting laughable - come on Goodell


joeyssteelcurtain
08-19-2010, 07:34 AM
another day another guy not getting suspended. at some point this has become ridicuolus.

im not going to argue Ben being suspended because i do agree he should have been, 2 games max not 6 though.

Bengals escape again without having one of their guys suspended. Malaluga gets no suspension after pleading guilty to a DUI.

the guy is driving around drunk and could kill someone and gets nothing.

all credibility the Goodell was trying to get with his policy has got to be thrown out of the window at this point. its very clear he suspended Ben because of the media coverage. i guess being accused, but not charged of assaulting a 20 year old bar hopper is worse than pleading guilty to driving drunk.

i want this story of Ben being suspended to go away just as bad as the rest of you guys, but when you see stories of guys not getting suspended it just brings it right back to the fore front.

at this point i think the only thing Goodell can do to maintain any balance in these suspensions is to reduce Bens to 2 games to were it should have been and i dont want to hear that he would be showing favoritism to the Steelers by doing so. what about the favoritism of not suspending to Bengals or the Titans starting qb. i wouldnt call it favoritism i would call it fair.

truesteelerfan
08-19-2010, 07:41 AM
How many games will a player be suspended for in the future when he gets a parking ticket?

joeyssteelcurtain
08-19-2010, 07:50 AM
If its a steeler player like 6 games if its a pats player the nfl will pay the ticket

whatdoiknow
08-19-2010, 08:59 AM
I was going to bring this up yesterday. But I thought it was more of a general league thing then a steeler thing. And thought it should be posted in the NFL Forum, and not here, but there is very little action in that forum. Anyways I to think it is BS cause by admitting that Rey did something very dangerous and egregious, and taking away TWO of his game checks, but not suspending him those actual two games is kinda suspecious. And trust me, this is not Rey's first real offence. He has been a disgrace for a while now. But i'm not going to compare him with Ben cause I'm getting tired of it, and it just makes me mad. So why bother ? Rey hasn't learned any lessons, and you'll be hearing from him again in a off-field incident again.

Griff
08-19-2010, 09:05 AM
Agreed. Goodell blew it.

stb_steeler
08-19-2010, 01:19 PM
Agreed. Goodell blew it.

Goodell blew who?. :jerkit:

steeltheone
08-19-2010, 01:45 PM
DUI is a mistake a bad choice, one most all of us have guilty of many times during our lives. I'm not saying it's ok, but not long ago it was an accepted choice with minimal ramifications. Comparing DUI to rape, guns, drugs, animal abuse, abuse of women is not on the same scale. That being said, multiple offenses probably should be dealt with more aggressively.

SteeleReign
08-19-2010, 04:22 PM
I just find it humorous that so many here think that they know all the facts. Can't it be assumed that Goodell know MUCH MUCH more than any of us do about all of these instances. To assume that Roger has some vendetta against Ben or the Steelers is assinine.

If Roger came down hard on Ben to prove that he's as hard on Caucasians as he is African-Americans, well so be it. It certainly doesn't mean that Ben was innocent. As another poster said, Ben still has his job & suffered no incarceration. Many of us would be fired & have a hard time finding another job for breaking our company's code of conduct policies. Whether we agree with the policies or not.

whatdoiknow
08-19-2010, 04:32 PM
I just find it humorous that so many here think that they know all the facts. Can't it be assumed that Goodell know MUCH MUCH more than any of us do about all of these instances. To assume that Roger has some vendetta against Ben or the Steelers is assinine.

If Roger came down hard on Ben to prove that he's as hard on Caucasians as he is African-Americans, well so be it. It certainly doesn't mean that Ben was innocent. As another poster said, Ben still has his job & suffered no incarceration. Many of us would be fired & have a hard time finding another job for breaking our company's code of conduct policies. Whether we agree with the policies or not.




Yes but said company would have to PROVE that you broke any conduct rules. In Ben's case, where was that ever PROVEN ? And as for Ben's Innocence. ah yes it does. I mean there wasn't even an appearance of Inpropriety other than two different women claiming Ben did something. Neither claim was in a simular surrounding,,,even though Goodell said that they were. Neither case was simular...meanning that the first alledged one was over a year earlier, and NEVER reported at any time. Hell, if Ben goes into a Burger King, and some woman comes out a week later saying that after Ben left, when he was away from any cameras that are inside the restaurant, that he felt her breasts up..what ?..are you then gonna support another Goodell suspension ? No wonder you took offense at my " Nazi " comment. Cause it's CLEAR that you, as well as your father were probably members of the 3rd Reich!

SteeleReign
08-19-2010, 05:21 PM
Yes but said company would have to PROVE that you broke any conduct rules. In Ben's case, where was that ever PROVEN ? And as for Ben's Innocence. ah yes it does. I mean there wasn't even an appearance of Inpropriety other than two different women claiming Ben did something. Neither claim was in a simular surrounding,,,even though Goodell said that they were. Neither case was simular...meanning that the first alledged one was over a year earlier, and NEVER reported at any time. Hell, if Ben goes into a Burger King, and some woman comes out a week later saying that after Ben left, when he was away from any cameras that are inside the restaurant, that he felt her breasts up..what ?..are you then gonna support another Goodell suspension ? No wonder you took offense at my " Nazi " comment. Cause it's CLEAR that you, as well as your father were probably members of the 3rd Reich!

Can you PROVE that Ben didn't break any conduct rules? Of course not.

And moron, if I were a member of the Third Reich, do you think I'd find your references offensive? You are truly clueless - I hope you grow up someday....oh yeah, I forgot, you've been around since the "real Nazis!" :blah:

joeyssteelcurtain
08-19-2010, 05:30 PM
I just find it humorous that so many here think that they know all the facts. Can't it be assumed that Goodell know MUCH MUCH more than any of us do about all of these instances. To assume that Roger has some vendetta against Ben or the Steelers is assinine.

If Roger came down hard on Ben to prove that he's as hard on Caucasians as he is African-Americans, well so be it. It certainly doesn't mean that Ben was innocent. As another poster said, Ben still has his job & suffered no incarceration. Many of us would be fired & have a hard time finding another job for breaking our company's code of conduct policies. Whether we agree with the policies or not.

The facts are all of those other players got charged and convicted Ben never. How would you feel if you got suspended from you job for something someone said you did with no prove of nothing. From a boss that you know has it out for you

GrizzlyDean
08-19-2010, 05:31 PM
All I know is this last summer all the Rays on the Ravens team kind of made me feel funny and I felt violated so I want some suspensions handed out! I can write up some reports if needed.

SteeleReign
08-19-2010, 05:36 PM
The facts are all of those other players got charged and convicted Ben never. How would you feel if you got suspended from you job for something someone said you did with no prove of nothing

Once again, you nor I are privy to all the facts that Goodell had before him in any of these cases. But, if you choose to buy into the conspiracy theory that Goodell is out to get Ben or the Steelers, well, I guess you're not concerned with being fair.

Just because Ben didn't get charged doesn't mean he was innocent. Ben had a closed-door meeting with Roger. Do you know what was discussed? Is it possible that Ben was contrite and admitted inproprieties to Goodell that nobody else is aware of? Who knows?

What I do know is the Roger has a tough job, and in my mind in doing a good job of cracking down on the knuckleheads. Will he make a mistake or two? Sure. But, his handling of Ben is not one of them (imho).

SteeleReign
08-19-2010, 05:37 PM
All I know is this last summer all the Rays on the Ravens team kind of made me feel funny and I felt violated so I want some suspensions handed out! I can write up some reports if needed.

TMI

pete74
08-19-2010, 06:17 PM
if ben didnt own a single super bowl ring he would of never been suspended a single game but because he owns 2 he get alot of media coverage and that is what got him suspended

whatdoiknow
08-19-2010, 07:18 PM
Once again, you nor I are privy to all the facts that Goodell had before him in any of these cases. But, if you choose to buy into the conspiracy theory that Goodell is out to get Ben or the Steelers, well, I guess you're not concerned with being fair.

Just because Ben didn't get charged doesn't mean he was innocent. Ben had a closed-door meeting with Roger. Do you know what was discussed? Is it possible that Ben was contrite and admitted inproprieties to Goodell that nobody else is aware of? Who knows?

What I do know is the Roger has a tough job, and in my mind in doing a good job of cracking down on the knuckleheads. Will he make a mistake or two? Sure. But, his handling of Ben is not one of them (imho).




Just because Ben didn't get charged doesn't mean he was innocent.....Ah, yes it DOES MENSA! As for the closed door meeting, Ah if you remember, Ben has absolutely gone on record as saying BOTH Alligations were not true. But he also did say that maybe, after the first alligation in Nevada that maybe he did not use the best judgement in putting himself out there again...in public to be " ACCUSED " again. That, and ONLY that is what Ben ever admitted to. And THAT my friend is NOT a crime. Also, Goodell himself came out and disclosed everything that was said in his meeting with Ben, and omitted a letter to the steelers and the Public. And several of the things Goodell said were not only 100 % Inaccurate, but down right false. And Ben very recently even said that there is ALOT he wants to say and disclose about this, but said at that time he can't cause technically the civil case in Nevada is still open. But once again my little " Nancy Grace " wannabe,,,,IF you are never arrested..never charged..and never Indicted, or found guilty in a court of Law...then YES...you are Innocent!! And even though Goodell in the past has suspended the likes of BLACK players like Adam Jones-Chris Henry-Vick BEFORE their current intanglements were played out...ALL of those guys have had PAST charges that DID involve them being arrested, and charged, and convicted. And ALL of them have had past associations with Gang-Bangers, and nefarious Individuals that DID place the League in a Bad light. This is not " SPECULATIVE "..this IS a fact. But when has Ben ever been caught on Camera hangin with Gang Bangers ? When has Ben ever been around an establishment like a strip club past 1 AM in the morning where a violent Incident has taken place ? But, after all the Media tale about How Goodell was being overly Unfair to the likes of Vick, Henry and Pac-Man Jones, getting criticised by Jesse Jackson, and Al Sharpton's of the World. Once the ALLIGATIONS of Ben came out,,,Oh ALL of them said and demanded that " WHITE BOY " Ben had better get the same type of suspensions that said " Black " players got...even though unlike all those players...Ben never had a single Incident that was PROVEN..either caught on tape of were arrested and convicted...like Pac-Man had, or M.Vick, and Chris Henry!




Ben was PURELY the leagues. and Goodell's " Scapegoat! "



Period!!

SteeleReign
08-19-2010, 07:48 PM
Just because Ben didn't get charged doesn't mean he was innocent.....Ah, yes it DOES MENSA! As for the closed door meeting, Ah if you remember, Ben has absolutely gone on record as saying BOTH Alligations were not true. But he also did say that maybe, after the first alligation in Nevada that maybe he did not use the best judgement in putting himself out there again...in public to be " ACCUSED " again. That, and ONLY that is what Ben ever admitted to. And THAT my friend is NOT a crime. Also, Goodell himself came out and disclosed everything that was said in his meeting with Ben, and omitted a letter to the steelers and the Public. And several of the things Goodell said were not only 100 % Inaccurate, but down right false. And Ben very recently even said that there is ALOT he wants to say and disclose about this, but said at that time he can't cause technically the civil case in Nevada is still open. But once again my little " Nancy Grace " wannabe,,,,IF you are never arrested..never charged..and never Indicted, or found guilty in a court of Law...then YES...you are Innocent!! And even though Goodell in the past has suspended the likes of BLACK players like Adam Jones-Chris Henry-Vick BEFORE their current intanglements were played out...ALL of those guys have had PAST charges that DID involve them being arrested, and charged, and convicted. And ALL of them have had past associations with Gang-Bangers, and nefarious Individuals that DID place the League in a Bad light. This is not " SPECULATIVE "..this IS a fact. But when has Ben ever been caught on Camera hangin with Gang Bangers ? When has Ben ever been around an establishment like a strip club past 1 AM in the morning where a violent Incident has taken place ? But, after all the Media tale about How Goodell was being overly Unfair to the likes of Vick, Henry and Pac-Man Jones, getting criticised by Jesse Jackson, and Al Sharpton's of the World. Once the ALLIGATIONS of Ben came out,,,Oh ALL of them said and demanded that " WHITE BOY " Ben had better get the same type of suspensions that said " Black " players got...even though unlike all those players...Ben never had a single Incident that was PROVEN..either caught on tape of were arrested and convicted...like Pac-Man had, or M.Vick, and Chris Henry!




Ben was PURELY the leagues. and Goodell's " Scapegoat! "



Period!!


Your ramblings are so impossible to read that it gives me a headache. Innocence in the eyes of the court does NOT mean that a crime wasn't commited. MANY guilty people have been judged innocent.....but that's beside the point.

My point is that you accusing Goodell & the league of having to settle a racial score is unfounded & pure speculation. Ben got what he deserved based on his not following the NFL code of conduct.

Period!!!

SteeleReign
08-19-2010, 07:51 PM
if ben didnt own a single super bowl ring he would of never been suspended a single game but because he owns 2 he get alot of media coverage and that is what got him suspended

Maybe...that's speculation. I don't think rings have anything to do with it though.

whatdoiknow
08-19-2010, 07:55 PM
Maybe...that's speculation. I don't think rings have anything to do with it though.




You are such a Hypocrite. You say that this guy is just " SPECULATING " on his statement. And yet in your responce to me you say MANY Guilty people have been judged Innocent in a court of Law....HOW the Hell do you know they're Guilty before going through a trial ? That my friend is the very definition of " SPECULATION "


I mean JUST because Nancy Grace says it's so...does NOT make it so.!

SteeleReign
08-19-2010, 08:05 PM
You are such a Hypocrite. You say that this guy is just " SPECULATING " on his statement. And yet in your responce to me you say MANY Guilty people have been judged Innocent in a court of Law....HOW the Hell do you know they're Guilty before going through a trial ? That my friend is the very definition of " SPECULATION "


I mean JUST because Nancy Grace says it's so...does NOT make it so.!

Wow! There's that "over 200 IQ" at work again. How old are you, really? 12, 13? Do your own research genius. There are COUNTLESS KNOWN examples of people that commited a crime getting off on technicalities - miranda rights violations, double jeopardy, etc...so, I'm not speculating.

Maybe you should get out your dictionary (if you own one) and look up the definition of "speculation", because it's surely not cited in your example above. Oh, and while you're at it, take a look at "hypocrite."

chacha
08-19-2010, 10:59 PM
Once again, you nor I are privy to all the facts that Goodell had before him in any of these cases. But, if you choose to buy into the conspiracy theory that Goodell is out to get Ben or the Steelers, well, I guess you're not concerned with being fair.

Just because Ben didn't get charged doesn't mean he was innocent. Ben had a closed-door meeting with Roger. Do you know what was discussed? Is it possible that Ben was contrite and admitted inproprieties to Goodell that nobody else is aware of? Who knows?

What I do know is the Roger has a tough job, and in my mind in doing a good job of cracking down on the knuckleheads. Will he make a mistake or two? Sure. But, his handling of Ben is not one of them (imho).

I gotta disagree with you about what was said behind cloded doors. None of us know but since Ben has said that the (ahem) lady wasnt telling the truth, AFTER his discussion with Goodell, it's pretty safe to figure he didnt say anything differently in their meeting. I believe it was the limelight seeking prosecuters rambling and then the media which played a very big hand in the suspension.

steeltheone
08-20-2010, 04:36 AM
Playing in the NFL is not a right, just as any job is not. Ben's police officer/ bodyguard from the Monroeville area lost his job. The Other bodyguard the Pa State Trooper is probably gonna lose his. So I suppose Mr. Goodalls penalty to BR is not so bad after all. Everything that went on there was wrong and they all knew it. They thought they were above the law.

SteeleReign
08-20-2010, 08:10 AM
I gotta disagree with you about what was said behind cloded doors. None of us know but since Ben has said that the (ahem) lady wasnt telling the truth, AFTER his discussion with Goodell, it's pretty safe to figure he didnt say anything differently in their meeting. I believe it was the limelight seeking prosecuters rambling and then the media which played a very big hand in the suspension.

Yeah, of course I have no idea and I am just speculating in this case. I'm not suggesting that Ben admitted to rape, but admitted to breaking the NFL's code of conduct.

In my mind, the most egregious mistake was setting up bodyguards outside the bathroom. Whether the sex was consensual or not, the bodyguards alone make the occassion worthy of suspension. Again, in my opinion.

SteeleReign
08-20-2010, 08:15 AM
Playing in the NFL is not a right, just as any job is not. Ben's police officer/ bodyguard from the Monroeville area lost his job. The Other bodyguard the Pa State Trooper is probably gonna lose his. So I suppose Mr. Goodalls penalty to BR is not so bad after all. Everything that went on there was wrong and they all knew it. They thought they were above the law.

This is what I think has become Goodell's biggest challenge - changing this way of thinking. Professional athletes in all sports, Hollywood stars, and many in the music biz have been held do a different judicial standard than you or I would.

Goodell has taken the challenge to change that in the NFL. The job clearly isn't finished & probably never will be, but we're heading in the right direction.

cloppbeast
08-20-2010, 08:37 AM
I know as fans, we're looking for some sort of justice, but that's really not what Goodell is interested in. He's only concerned with the NFL's image. Often, he's decisions will seem unfair, but from the NFL's perspective that doesn't matter. Goodell isn't these knucklehead's parents; I'm sure he could honestly care less what kind of trouble they get in, but he just doesn't want them in the news for doing something dumb/illegal.

When you read everything in the police report about Ben that night, and consider the media coverage, a reasonable person understands Goodell had to do something about it, whether or not Ben deserved it or not - the key word in that sentence being 'reasonable'. Even if Ben didn't do anything illegal, he may or may not have, nevertheless, he embarrassed the league. Ben understands that, and that's exactly why he hasn't complained about it.

chacha
08-20-2010, 08:47 AM
Playing in the NFL is not a right, just as any job is not. Ben's police officer/ bodyguard from the Monroeville area lost his job. The Other bodyguard the Pa State Trooper is probably gonna lose his. So I suppose Mr. Goodalls penalty to BR is not so bad after all. Everything that went on there was wrong and they all knew it. They thought they were above the law.

No, one of the cops made the decision to resign right at the start-(the one who called the girl a fing bitch). The other one's probe for alleged misconduct ended-he's still a cop, and the other is involved in a grievance hearing that will determine if he can resume moonlighting for Ben

whatdoiknow
08-21-2010, 04:34 PM
Whew! Glad there is no team in Los Angeles now, or thate steelers were isitig there Friday night awaiting a Saturday pre-season game, cause I'M SURE that a fool Like " Steelereign " and Goodell would have accused Ben of hanging out with " National Sports Writer " Jay Mariotti ".....





ESPN's Jay Mariotti arrested by L.A. police [Updated]
August 21, 2010 | 8:17 am
ESPN personality and sports columnist Jay Mariotti was
arrested overnight by Los Angeles police officers in the
Pacific division.

He was booked on suspicion of a felony, but officials would
not provide further details.

A source with knowledge of the case described it as a
domestic disturbance charge involving his girlfriend. He was
being held on $50,000 bail.

Mariotti is a well-known sports commentator who can be seen
on the ESPN show "Around the Horn." He also writes for a
sports website called Fanhouse.com. Known for his outspoken
views, he used to write a sports column for the Denver Post
and the Chicago Sun-Times.

Details of the arrest were not immediately available.

[Updated at 9:30 a.m.: LAPD sources said Mariotti allegedly
got into an argument with his girlfriend at a club in Santa
Monica.

The argument continued at the couple's apartment in Venice,
where some type of physical altercation allegedly occurred.
Police were called to the apartment, and Marioitti was
arrested. He is currently being held at the 77th Street
station.]

-- Andrew Blankstein

SteeleReign
08-22-2010, 12:01 PM
Whew! Glad there is no team in Los Angeles now, or thate steelers were isitig there Friday night awaiting a Saturday pre-season game, cause I'M SURE that a fool Like " Steelereign " and Goodell would have accused Ben of hanging out with " National Sports Writer " Jay Mariotti ".....





ESPN's Jay Mariotti arrested by L.A. police [Updated]
August 21, 2010 | 8:17 am
ESPN personality and sports columnist Jay Mariotti was
arrested overnight by Los Angeles police officers in the
Pacific division.

He was booked on suspicion of a felony, but officials would
not provide further details.

A source with knowledge of the case described it as a
domestic disturbance charge involving his girlfriend. He was
being held on $50,000 bail.

Mariotti is a well-known sports commentator who can be seen
on the ESPN show "Around the Horn." He also writes for a
sports website called Fanhouse.com. Known for his outspoken
views, he used to write a sports column for the Denver Post
and the Chicago Sun-Times.

Details of the arrest were not immediately available.

[Updated at 9:30 a.m.: LAPD sources said Mariotti allegedly
got into an argument with his girlfriend at a club in Santa
Monica.

The argument continued at the couple's apartment in Venice,
where some type of physical altercation allegedly occurred.
Police were called to the apartment, and Marioitti was
arrested. He is currently being held at the 77th Street
station.]

-- Andrew Blankstein

As usual, you make absolutely no sense whatsoever. Can you SERIOUSLY take some time to re-read your posts & edit them so that the rest of us can make sense of your gibberish.

Honestly, your infatuation of Big Ben is bordering on creepy.

pittguy578
08-22-2010, 02:02 PM
The Commish is a joke. Ray's offense was far worse than Ben's. He was driving around drunk with two other people in the girl..one of them was on 17..YES..17. He hit parked cars/parking meters, etc. He could have easily killed a pedestrian, himself, and a passenger. And Vince Young gets into a fight at a STRIP CLUB..gets arrested..And that doesn't make the league look bad? Roger needs to go.

steeltheone
08-22-2010, 03:06 PM
How about like Brady Manning Rivers Brees etc.....We grow up and not put ourself in these situations.

Downbylaw
08-22-2010, 03:26 PM
Sorry, I think Goodell is good for the league. This experience can only help Ben. Ben has admitted that he was out of control with the Big Ben perssona. I would rather have Ben suspended for 4 weeks than in jail for some years. You guys need to stop being homers because if this was Brady and the same circumstances, you would be all over him calling him a rapist. Ben was out of control, admitted it and took his punishment like a man. He didnt appeal it and again, took it like a man. Thats signs of growth. Some of you need to do the same. Its not Goodell's fault that Ben was involved in another rape allegation. Its Bens and Ben is fine with the suspension, so you should be too.

BengalDestroyer
08-22-2010, 06:32 PM
Goodell's a loser (for the sake of keeping this post clean!), that's all.

SteeleReign
08-22-2010, 06:43 PM
Sorry, I think Goodell is good for the league. This experience can only help Ben. Ben has admitted that he was out of control with the Big Ben perssona. I would rather have Ben suspended for 4 weeks than in jail for some years. You guys need to stop being homers because if this was Brady and the same circumstances, you would be all over him calling him a rapist. Ben was out of control, admitted it and took his punishment like a man. He didnt appeal it and again, took it like a man. Thats signs of growth. Some of you need to do the same. Its not Goodell's fault that Ben was involved in another rape allegation. Its Bens and Ben is fine with the suspension, so you should be too.

I tend to agree with you here...the "homers" will flame you though,,,

whatdoiknow
08-22-2010, 08:05 PM
I am not a Homer for Ben. I am a homer for Justice. And BTW, Ben NEVER said at anytime that he was out of control. I mean name the pattern here with Ben ? Has he ever been reportedin the past in any night clubs ?
When has he ever been reported as being a bad person or teammate in his first 5 years ? YES, he was Immature this last time in Georgia by trying to have sex, which Ben in some sort did admit to. But he also said that the girl complied. But Ben said in hindsight that doing that in a public venue WAS Immature, and THAT is what he admitted to. Never any Illegal wrongdoings. As for the Nevada thing, that was NEVER a Law enforcement Issue. It was NEVER reported. I mean ANYONE can file a civil suit and sue anyone. That does not make it true, or Illegal. So there IS no pattern here. As where Chris Henry was arrested 3 times in college, and multiple times as a Bengal before he was EVER suspended at all. Same to for Pac-Man Jones, and Vick. THOSE Guys are Ghetto Gangstas, and have a pattern and History. Ben has no negative History, and has never been arrested ONCE. Being accused by an Obviously demented woman in Nevada, and being accused by a drunk as hell sorority girl who is the very definition of a typical " Girls gone wild " chick does NOT a criminal make. So we who support Ben are not Homers. We ARE Realists!



Get the difference ?

SteeleReign
08-22-2010, 09:40 PM
I am not a Homer for Ben. I am a homer for Justice. And BTW, Ben NEVER said at anytime that he was out of control. I mean name the pattern here with Ben ? Has he ever been reportedin the past in any night clubs ?
When has he ever been reported as being a bad person or teammate in his first 5 years ? YES, he was Immature this last time in Georgia by trying to have sex, which Ben in some sort did admit to. But he also said that the girl complied. But Ben said in hindsight that doing that in a public venue WAS Immature, and THAT is what he admitted to. Never any Illegal wrongdoings. As for the Nevada thing, that was NEVER a Law enforcement Issue. It was NEVER reported. I mean ANYONE can file a civil suit and sue anyone. That does not make it true, or Illegal. So there IS no pattern here. As where Chris Henry was arrested 3 times in college, and multiple times as a Bengal before he was EVER suspended at all. Same to for Pac-Man Jones, and Vick. THOSE Guys are Ghetto Gangstas, and have a pattern and History. Ben has no negative History, and has never been arrested ONCE. Being accused by an Obviously demented woman in Nevada, and being accused by a drunk as hell sorority girl who is the very definition of a typical " Girls gone wild " chick does NOT a criminal make. So we who support Ben are not Homers. We ARE Realists!



Get the difference ?

I'm starting to get the feeling that you are so angry about this because you wish the person in that bathroom with Ben was you. :hug:

You just need to relax dude...not everyone will agree with you. Learn that lesson & your heart doctor will appreciate it.

Downbylaw
08-23-2010, 02:18 AM
I am not a Homer for Ben. I am a homer for Justice. And BTW, Ben NEVER said at anytime that he was out of control. I mean name the pattern here with Ben ? Has he ever been reportedin the past in any night clubs ?
When has he ever been reported as being a bad person or teammate in his first 5 years ? YES, he was Immature this last time in Georgia by trying to have sex, which Ben in some sort did admit to. But he also said that the girl complied. But Ben said in hindsight that doing that in a public venue WAS Immature, and THAT is what he admitted to. Never any Illegal wrongdoings. As for the Nevada thing, that was NEVER a Law enforcement Issue. It was NEVER reported. I mean ANYONE can file a civil suit and sue anyone. That does not make it true, or Illegal. So there IS no pattern here. As where Chris Henry was arrested 3 times in college, and multiple times as a Bengal before he was EVER suspended at all. Same to for Pac-Man Jones, and Vick. THOSE Guys are Ghetto Gangstas, and have a pattern and History. Ben has no negative History, and has never been arrested ONCE. Being accused by an Obviously demented woman in Nevada, and being accused by a drunk as hell sorority girl who is the very definition of a typical " Girls gone wild " chick does NOT a criminal make. So we who support Ben are not Homers. We ARE Realists!



Get the difference ?



1st of all Ben said he was "caught up" in the Big Ben persona. Caught up, out of control, semantics.
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=5273150

When people THINK they are larger than life they tend to think they can get away with things.
Secondly, it is a KNOWN fact that Ben was a bad teammate. Joey Porter, Hine Ward and Whisenhunt have had run ins with the guy. If you dont believe that check my proof. In the E-60 piece hear Ben admit how hurt he was when he heard he wasnt liked. Notice he changed? Why the change if nothing was wrong? Also, it is well documented about how he treated people in the burgh. If you havent heard, feel free to read the article. I have plenty more if you need more proof. The fact that you deny the obvious is telling.

Big Ben a bad teamate. They didn't like him.
http://www.steelersgab.com/2010/04/13/prisco-roethlisberger-arrogant-teammates-dont-like-him/

Out of Bens own mouth how he wasn't liked
http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=4641995


Lastly, it is a known fact the police officers treat African American suspects quite differently than caucasian ones. Girl says "Ben raped me or assaulted me" They question Ben and let him go. Girl says Lawrence Taylor raped me, they go to his hotel and question him (he says he didnt do it, JUST LIKE BEN SAID) and he is arrested and investigated later. Thats the way it is in the judicial system sir. I ought to know, I have been in criminal justice for 22 years and I would be lying if I said I treated blacks, hispanics like I treat my own brethren. I am not a racist but I DO favor my race. There is a difference.

Downbylaw
08-23-2010, 02:19 AM
I'm starting to get the feeling that you are so angry about this because you wish the person in that bathroom with Ben was you. :hug:

You just need to relax dude...not everyone will agree with you. Learn that lesson & your heart doctor will appreciate it.

lol Nice!

Curtain_of_Steel
08-23-2010, 12:20 PM
What happened to the Browns dude that carried a gun through airport security, loaded no less?

Im still trying to find the argument of not guilty in his plea, since he DID carried the gun. So as to say im not guilty and yes i did carry the gun, but I was to stupid to learn how to read, therefore Im not guilty by reason of being a Brown and not being able to read?

Yet no suspension?
So carrying guns is OK in the NFL, and DUI's are ok?

Physically pounding people in a bar and being caught on tape is ok too. So long as its with yoru posse, lol. you can not act alone with this charge

Downbylaw
08-23-2010, 02:50 PM
What happened to the Browns dude that carried a gun through airport security, loaded no less?

Im still trying to find the argument of not guilty in his plea, since he DID carried the gun. So as to say im not guilty and yes i did carry the gun, but I was to stupid to learn how to read, therefore Im not guilty by reason of being a Brown and not being able to read?

Yet no suspension?
So carrying guns is OK in the NFL, and DUI's are ok?

Physically pounding people in a bar and being caught on tape is ok too. So long as its with yoru posse, lol. you can not act alone with this charge

Did Ben get suspended after his 1st allegation? No he did not, the same applies to the above incidents. It was a 1st offense. Before you go calling individuals stupid you need to learn the difference between TOO AND TO.

whatdoiknow
08-23-2010, 02:57 PM
Did Ben get suspended after his 1st allegation? No he did not, the same applies to the above incidents. It was a 1st offense. Before you go calling individuals stupid you need to learn the difference between TOO AND TO.



First off Idiot, that Gun Incident was NOT an Alligation...he was caught with a LOADED Weapon. And second, Shaun Rogers was Issued a DUI twice while with the Lions, and arrested in one of those times. So the gun Incident was Rogers THIRD Offense, and 2nd arrest. How many times was Ben arrested ?...Oh yeah that's right...ZERO!! So maybe you should grow a Brain MENSA!!

cloppbeast
08-23-2010, 06:00 PM
First off Idiot, that Gun Incident was NOT an Alligation...he was caught with a LOADED Weapon. And second, Shaun Rogers was Issued a DUI twice while with the Lions, and arrested in one of those times. So the gun Incident was Rogers THIRD Offense, and 2nd arrest. How many times was Ben arrested ?...Oh yeah that's right...ZERO!! So maybe you should grow a Brain MENSA!!

When we were growing up, my youngest brother Matthew had ADHD. He was constantly doing crap to intentionally piss off me and my other brother Tyler. Pissing us off really gave him the jollies, so we continually beat him up. Unfortunately, every time we'd beat him up, we'd get in trouble. My dad would always say, "He can't help it, but you can. Just ignore him." Quite a novel concept.

Tired of getting in trouble, Tyler and I decided to give my Dad's suggestion a try, and we just ignored Matthew. An amazing thing happened: it worked. The little piss-ant got tired and bored of bugging us unintentionally, and stopped after a while.

Where am I going with this? This ignoramus whatdoiknow really reminds me of my chemically imbalanced brother, and I suggest we give him the same treatment. The kid, I'd guess he's a preteen with ADHD just like my brother, can't seem to have an intelligent conversation without irritating everyone on the board. Let's just ignore everything that he says until he learns to behave.

As a side note: Matthew turned out alright. He's now a productive member of society, and one of my heroes. He's serving our country bravely in the Army, currently deployed in Afghanistan.

whatdoiknow
08-23-2010, 06:06 PM
Good for your Brother. But why not address my point ? Comparing Rogers, who WAS caught red handed with a loaded gun, and Ben, who was not caught in anything. No physical evidence was ever found, or was ever questioned or arrested is NOT the same thing. Also as stated, the Gun Incident was NOT Shaun Rogers first offense. Why not address those points ? Not that I didn't find your " Retard Brother makes good " story very moving.

cloppbeast
08-23-2010, 06:12 PM
Good for your Brother. But why not address my point ? Comparing Rogers, who WAS caught red handed with a loaded gun, and Ben, who was not caught in anything. No physical evidence was ever found, or was ever questioned or arrested is NOT the same thing. Also as stated, the Gun Incident was NOT Shaun Rogers first offense. Why not address those points ? Not that I didn't find your " Retard Brother makes good " story very moving.

'Retard Brother', are you ******* serious? This is why nobody likes you.

You are offensive on so many levels....

I didn't address your point because I didn't feel like being called an idiot in response (although, if disagreeing with you makes someone an idiot, I should take it as a compliment). I'm tired of talking to you, along with everyone else on this board. This is the last time I will respond to one of your posts, unless of course you start being more respectful. I won't count on that.

whatdoiknow
08-23-2010, 06:27 PM
Okay fine, sorry for the comment about your Brother. Just as long as your sorry about assuming I have some sort of disorder. Cause that is every bit as egregious. Now, how about addressing the crux of my point on how Rogers was not a first time offender ? And calling out the other poster for his moronic statement that Ben was arrested twice ?

SteeleReign
08-23-2010, 07:22 PM
Okay fine, sorry for the comment about your Brother. Just as long as your sorry about assuming I have some sort of disorder. Cause that is every bit as egregious. Now, how about addressing the crux of my point on how Rogers was not a first time offender ? And calling out the other poster for his moronic statement that Ben was arrested twice ?

The fact that you would stoop so low as to make a "retard" comment like this tells me everything I need to know about you and "whatyoudon'tknow"!!! You're an embarrasment to Steelers fans.

OX1947
08-23-2010, 07:26 PM
Forget about the suspensions. Goodell is doing things to this league that are only going to turn off the regular viewer. I love the NFL, however I am slowly getting to the point where I wont support anything they produce other then the actual game. I will start watching all their offseason videos on youtube and not buy anything NFL wise unless its a gift card given to me. His continued allowance of a limited access to NFL games with that monstrosity that is Direct TV, his lobbying for 18 games for a sport where players barely last 16. His continued meddling into peoples person lives even if they aren't charged of anything. More and more greed seems to continue year in and year out.

After 23 years, the NFL is in the midst of a lockout/strike. Why was it that when Paul Tags was around, there was never even a hint of a strike or lockout? Then they use the excuse that Gene Upshaw was Tags lapdog, which I always thought was a joke. Players make money hand over fist, Owners have been making millions over the last 20 years, NFL has flourished so much that teams from Indianapolis and New Orleans, bottom halves of the countries markets and still draw the highest ratings in the history of TV. You tell me how the ratings would be if the Pacers met the Hornets in the NBA Finals? Tuesday night fights on ESPN would draw more people.

I thought when they got Goodell, I thought he would advance the game abroad. Thought it was the perfect time to do so. I knew he was a global marketer, had a knack for expansion into foreign markets. I thought that is what his primary plan. I figured Mexico, Canada and Europe were untapped and it would be nice to grow the game more wordily so that it was more the world game instead of only an American game. Instead, he force feeds his agendas and treats players like they are his kids which in turn is making the head of the Players Assoc. more and more distant from him. Another thing that is bad is monkeys like Bob Kraft and Jerry Jones are about bottom lines. The patriarchs of the NFL like the Rooney's, Mara's, Hunt's, and Ralph Wilson's all helped create an even and fair situation for the league. Even in the sense that the players, owners and the good of the NFL were all on par. I don't know what this guy is doing, but all i know is every other week, I have to read about some a-hole who's suspended because some strangers accused a player of something with no proof or how the league is losing money because of the economy.

whatdoiknow
08-23-2010, 09:09 PM
The fact that you would stoop so low as to make a "retard" comment like this tells me everything I need to know about you and "whatyoudon'tknow"!!! You're an embarrasment to Steelers fans.




Reign: Below is a responce by our own MODERATOR Pete 74. So I guess you also have no respect for him as well right ?








Today, 05:40 PM #5
pete74
Moderator




Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: pittsburgh
Posts: 1,341
Member Number: 15921 Re: Steelers Six From Around The Web – Monday August 23rd – There’s A Pony In The Bac

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Quote:
Originally Posted by whatdoiknow
I don't know who the Idiot is that said Antonio Brown can't grasp the routes because he is not smart enough. Cause that is BS. And a Lie as well. All I have read from Steeler Vet players to the coaching staff is that Antonio Brown is CLEARLY the most pleasant surprise of ALL the Rookies this year. In the Detroit game on a Blitz, Brown Immediately recognized it, and broke his route and was right there for Dixon's " Hot Read " WR, and caught it for a 10 Yd gain. His 68 Yd TD was a beautifully run slant pattern as well. The guy puts in the extra work like Hines Ward does when he was young. Sorry Pete but that comment that the coaching staff thinks Brown is not smart enough is a totally made-up BS comment. And I have the links to prove it.

your a retard. this is not from my mouth, its an article i copied and pasted. stop making up your bullshit because im sick of it. 1st off you have no clue what the coaches say so stop pretending. now post your proof because im waiting. im willing to bet you forgot were you put your proof though

MasterOfPuppets
08-23-2010, 09:19 PM
:popcorn:

SteeleReign
08-23-2010, 09:34 PM
Reign: Below is a responce by our own MODERATOR Pete 74. So I guess you also have no respect for him as well right ?








Today, 05:40 PM #5
pete74
Moderator




Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: pittsburgh
Posts: 1,341
Member Number: 15921 Re: Steelers Six From Around The Web – Monday August 23rd – There’s A Pony In The Bac

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Quote:
Originally Posted by whatdoiknow
I don't know who the Idiot is that said Antonio Brown can't grasp the routes because he is not smart enough. Cause that is BS. And a Lie as well. All I have read from Steeler Vet players to the coaching staff is that Antonio Brown is CLEARLY the most pleasant surprise of ALL the Rookies this year. In the Detroit game on a Blitz, Brown Immediately recognized it, and broke his route and was right there for Dixon's " Hot Read " WR, and caught it for a 10 Yd gain. His 68 Yd TD was a beautifully run slant pattern as well. The guy puts in the extra work like Hines Ward does when he was young. Sorry Pete but that comment that the coaching staff thinks Brown is not smart enough is a totally made-up BS comment. And I have the links to prove it.

your a retard. this is not from my mouth, its an article i copied and pasted. stop making up your bullshit because im sick of it. 1st off you have no clue what the coaches say so stop pretending. now post your proof because im waiting. im willing to bet you forgot were you put your proof though


First of all, if you don't understand the difference between the two comments then you're beyond help. (which I suspect is true anyway)

Secondly, I don't care who Pete is, if had said the same thing you did with the same meaning (in addition to all the other ridiculous & incendiary things you've said) then I'd tell him he's an embarrasment too.

Downbylaw
08-23-2010, 10:39 PM
First off Idiot, that Gun Incident was NOT an Alligation...he was caught with a LOADED Weapon. And second, Shaun Rogers was Issued a DUI twice while with the Lions, and arrested in one of those times. So the gun Incident was Rogers THIRD Offense, and 2nd arrest. How many times was Ben arrested ?...Oh yeah that's right...ZERO!! So maybe you should grow a Brain MENSA!!

The idiot is the one who cant spell allegation. DUMDUM. Secondly, WHO embarrased the league more Ben or Rogers. I'll answer for you, BEN. That was easy now wasnt it?

whatdoiknow
08-23-2010, 10:48 PM
The idiot is the one who cant spell allegation. DUMDUM. Secondly, WHO embarrased the league more Ben or Rogers. I'll answer for you, BEN. That was easy now wasnt it?





Ben ? How do you figure that ? Ben was never arrested, charged, or even brought into questioning in Georgia. And the Neveda Incident,,,where was the crime ? Where is the Police report ? Where is ANY evidence ? Where was Ben..( Like Rogers )..ever caught Red-Handed ? You know, like caught with a loaded gun just steps away from boarding a Plane ?..( Which is a Class-1 Federal Offence felony )



Please explain it to me, as well as the other Steeler fans who stand behind our QB who has NO Arrest record at all.....waiting.

Downbylaw
08-23-2010, 10:57 PM
Good for your Brother. But why not address my point ? Comparing Rogers, who WAS caught red handed with a loaded gun, and Ben, who was not caught in anything. No physical evidence was ever found, or was ever questioned or arrested is NOT the same thing. Also as stated, the Gun Incident was NOT Shaun Rogers first offense. Why not address those points ? Not that I didn't find your " Retard Brother makes good " story very moving.

That comment was UNCALLED FOR WHAT A JERK! Here is the explanation right from the Commish in regards to pacman and Vicks cases. It applies to Bens as well.

When Goodell suspended Jones, he wrote a letter to the troubled player that stated: "Your conduct has brought embarrassment and ridicule upon yourself, your club, and the NFL, and has damaged the reputation of players throughout the league. You have put in jeopardy an otherwise promising NFL career, and have risked both your own safety and the safety of others through your off-field actions. In each of these respects, you have engaged in conduct detrimental to the NFL and failed to live up to the standards expected of NFL players. Taken as a whole, this conduct warrants significant sanction."

Roethlisberger might not have the same track record as Jones, but being accused of sexual assault twice in less than a year is an embarrassment not only to the Steelers, but to the entire NFL. No matter what happens with the criminal investigation or the civil case, these accusations will follow Roethlisberger forever and be used to judge the character of other NFL players.

In the past, Goodell has made it clear that protecting the NFL's brand is his foremost concern. When Goodell barred Vick from training camp while dogfighting charges were pending against him, he wrote this to Vick: "While it is for the criminal justice system to determine your guilt or innocence, it is my responsibility as commissioner of the National Football League to determine whether your conduct, even if not criminal, nonetheless violated league policies, including the Personal Conduct Policy."

There is your reason Ben was suspended.

Downbylaw
08-23-2010, 11:04 PM
Ben ? How do you figure that ? Ben was never arrested, charged, or even brought into questioning in Georgia. And the Neveda Incident,,,where was the crime ? Where is the Police report ? Where is ANY evidence ? Where was Ben..( Like Rogers )..ever caught Red-Handed ? You know, like caught with a loaded gun just steps away from boarding a Plane ?..( Which is a Class-1 Federal Offence felony )



Please explain it to me, as well as the other Steeler fans who stand behind our QB who has NO Arrest record at all.....waiting.

Ask 10 ordinary people who Shaun Rogers is, they wont know. Then ask those same 10, who is Ben Roethlisberger is and they will say "That rapist guy that plays football"
Not saying Ben is a rapist but thats the perception.
You sound like the Seahawk fans after we beat them. WHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

You said Ben wasnt a bad teammate, I showed you he was. You said he wasnt a bad person, I showed you he was. Just fall in a hole because you have no ground to stand on.

whatdoiknow
08-23-2010, 11:14 PM
That comment was UNCALLED FOR WHAT A JERK! Here is the explanation right from the Commish in regards to pacman and Vicks cases. It applies to Bens as well.

When Goodell suspended Jones, he wrote a letter to the troubled player that stated: "Your conduct has brought embarrassment and ridicule upon yourself, your club, and the NFL, and has damaged the reputation of players throughout the league. You have put in jeopardy an otherwise promising NFL career, and have risked both your own safety and the safety of others through your off-field actions. In each of these respects, you have engaged in conduct detrimental to the NFL and failed to live up to the standards expected of NFL players. Taken as a whole, this conduct warrants significant sanction."

Roethlisberger might not have the same track record as Jones, but being accused of sexual assault twice in less than a year is an embarrassment not only to the Steelers, but to the entire NFL. No matter what happens with the criminal investigation or the civil case, these accusations will follow Roethlisberger forever and be used to judge the character of other NFL players.

In the past, Goodell has made it clear that protecting the NFL's brand is his foremost concern. When Goodell barred Vick from training camp while dogfighting charges were pending against him, he wrote this to Vick: "While it is for the criminal justice system to determine your guilt or innocence, it is my responsibility as commissioner of the National Football League to determine whether your conduct, even if not criminal, nonetheless violated league policies, including the Personal Conduct Policy."

There is your reason Ben was suspended.





Okay lets take that letter for a moment. How was Ben's safety, or anyone elses safety ever in question in Georgia when BEN took the precaution to hire two sober drivers ?
Second, how is Ben's being at a CHARITY Golf event in Nevada putting the league in a bad light ? And how can Goodell put ANY merit into that woman's allegation when she not only never reported it to the police right away, but waited a whole year when she KNEW that any evidence that could have proven her a liar was no longer
kept..( Phone recordings, Video tapes ect, )...and that that womans co-worker even produced a past e-mail that the Accuser wrote her saying that she and Roethlisberger had sex, and that she belived that she was pregnant with Ben's baby...although as it turned out she was not. And that Ben never contacted her again. And then, some 10 Months later she cries Rape...in Civil court !



Son please, you're totally Embarrassing yourself here. Ben was Immature yes, but ANYONE can say ANYTHING about a High-profile person/Athlete to the media, and if said person is popular enough...like Ben, they will report the Hell out of it, i.e., it will be all over the papers. But that does NOT make it true. And whatever public sentimate comes from those Headlines cannot be Ben's fault. All anyone can do is fight the allegations made against them. Either in Civil court, or through the Legal
process...and there were NO findings of ANY facts. Face it son, Ben has been a MODEL Citizen for his first 5 years in the league. Had a Actress girlfriend for 2 years, and NEVER was a single word ever uttered about Ben being a Womenizer, or sexual Assualter. Or a Drunk Bar Hopper...NOTHING! Now all of a sudden you think Ben, who has zero History of it suddenly became a seriel Rapist ????



God I truly hope you're not that Stupid!

mikegrimey
08-23-2010, 11:23 PM
There are a lot of factors that went into Ben getting a suspension over accusation while others have gotten off scott free.

Not the least of which is Ben's race.

I remember around teh time Goddell was "evaluating" the situation that Amani Toomer made a laughingly bad PC idiotic comment about how he would be watching to see how the comissioner dealt with Roethlisberger, claiming that Pacman Jones got suspended for a long time without ever getting convicted of an actual crime. The article went on to mention how much of a factor race would have in this decisions. In the end being white hurt Ben's case. Too many PC morons would have complained if he had gotten a slap on the wrist. Nevermind that what happened with Ben are nothing mroe than accusations that could happen to anybody, the PC black elitist wouldn't see it happen. They were probably sick and tired of characters like Pacman and Vince Young getting ridiculed for "making it rain" in clubs. It's not fair by any means that lesser minds like Toomer are going to watch with a bias towards race, not fair, but that had an impact.

You also have to factor in his success and stature in the league. While he hasn't been annointed by the media like Manning he is a pretty big-name player and two time superbowl champ. His mishaps are going to draw a lot more attention than a d-linemen or linebackers. This again isn't fair nor judicially prudent, but it's part of the contemporary media and obsession with stars.

chacha
08-23-2010, 11:27 PM
Ask 10 ordinary people who Shaun Rogers is, they wont know. Then ask those same 10, who is Ben Roethlisberger is and they will say "That rapist guy that plays football"
Not saying Ben is a rapist but thats the perception.
You sound like the Seahawk fans after we beat them. WHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

You said Ben wasnt a bad teammate, I showed you he was. You said he wasnt a bad person, I showed you he was. Just fall in a hole because you have no ground to stand on.

10 ordinary people who dont follow football probably wont know who either is unless they read garbage like TMZ. Ben isnt a media darling like Manning and Brady and never was. Those who actually think "that rapist guy who plays football" more than likely received that perception by the tabloids and ridiculous SI articles that raked Ben over the coals and put him on the cover.

As for you assuming that you showed the other poster that Ben was a bad teammate and bad person, well you know what happens when you ASSume!

whatdoiknow
08-23-2010, 11:41 PM
10 ordinary people who dont follow football probably wont know who either is unless they read garbage like TMZ. Ben isnt a media darling like Manning and Brady and never was. Those who actually think "that rapist guy who plays football" more than likely received that perception by the tabloids and ridiculous SI articles that raked Ben over the coals and put him on the cover.

As for you assuming that you showed the other poster that Ben was a bad teammate and bad person, well you know what happens when you ASSume!




Bad teammate ? How exactly did you prove to me he was a bad teammate, and what does that have to do with Goodell egregiously suspending him TWICE as long as Vick ?

Downbylaw
08-23-2010, 11:43 PM
There are a lot of factors that went into Ben getting a suspension over accusation while others have gotten off scott free.

Not the least of which is Ben's race.

I remember around teh time Goddell was "evaluating" the situation that Amani Toomer made a laughingly bad PC idiotic comment about how he would be watching to see how the comissioner dealt with Roethlisberger, claiming that Pacman Jones got suspended for a long time without ever getting convicted of an actual crime. The article went on to mention how much of a factor race would have in this decisions. In the end being white hurt Ben's case. Too many PC morons would have complained if he had gotten a slap on the wrist. Nevermind that what happened with Ben are nothing mroe than accusations that could happen to anybody, the PC black elitist wouldn't see it happen. They were probably sick and tired of characters like Pacman and Vince Young getting ridiculed for "making it rain" in clubs. It's not fair by any means that lesser minds like Toomer are going to watch with a bias towards race, not fair, but that had an impact.

You also have to factor in his success and stature in the league. While he hasn't been annointed by the media like Manning he is a pretty big-name player and two time superbowl champ. His mishaps are going to draw a lot more attention than a d-linemen or linebackers. This again isn't fair nor judicially prudent, but it's part of the contemporary media and obsession with stars.


Its funny how my white brethren sat back for YEARS and watched all of the black guys get suspended and they clapped and said Goodell is good for the NFL. However, when one of our own gets the same treatment now everyone wants to play the race card. When blacks do it it is highly resisted. Ben being white had nothing to do with his suspension. Ben being STUPID did. Why do you guys fail to see that? Do you think Goodell is the kind of man to cave to pressure? I dont. What color was Matt Jones? He played the whole 2nd half without a suspension after a COCAINE CONVICTION. I have gained an immense amount of respect for Ben after all this. For his has taken his suspension like a man, didnt appeal it and is showing true growth. However, some of his suporters are whinning and crying like Seahawk fans after SB 40. Had Ben behaved appropriately, then there would be no suspension. Blame BEN, not Goodell.
Is Troy Suspended? Why not? Because he didnt do anything. The same would apply to Ben IF he hadnt done anything that night. And to all of you HOMER PYLES Who say "he wasnt charged, he wasnt arrested" I say, I ran a red light last week but didnt get a ticket so does that mean I didnt do anything wrong?

whatdoiknow
08-23-2010, 11:47 PM
Its funny how my white brethren sat back for YEARS and watched all of the black guys get suspended and they clapped and said Goodell is good for the NFL. However, when one of our own gets the same treatment now everyone wants to play the race card. When blacks do it it is highly resisted. Ben being white had nothing to do with his suspension. Ben being STUPID did. Why do you guys fail to see that? Do you think Goodell is the kind of man to cave to pressure? I dont. What color was Matt Jones? He played the whole 2nd half without a suspension after a COCAINE CONVICTION. I have gained an immense amount of respect for Ben after all this. For his has taken his suspension like a man, didnt appeal it and is showing true growth. However, some of his suporters are whinning and crying like Seahawk fans after SB 40. Had Ben behaved appropriately, then there would be no suspension. Blame BEN, not Goodell.
Is Troy Suspended? Why not? Because he didnt do anything. The same would apply to Ben IF he hadnt done anything that night. And to all of you HOMER PYLES Who say "he wasnt charged, he wasnt arrested" I say, I ran a red light last week but didnt get a ticket so does that mean I didnt do anything wrong?




Please name ONE Black player who's simular to Ben ? Meanning, one player who is Black who was suspended who was NEVER Arrested before, let alone Indicted and had past convictions. And don't name Pac-Man, Chris Henry or Michael Vick cause ALL of them had past Incidents/arrests/convictions before Goodell ever suspended any of them. So please, enlighten me as to what Black player who was just ACCUSED...But NEVER Arrested, never charged, never Indicted, or even QUESTIONED who was suspended.


I'll be waiting for your Answer!!

Downbylaw
08-23-2010, 11:47 PM
10 ordinary people who dont follow football probably wont know who either is unless they read garbage like TMZ. Ben isnt a media darling like Manning and Brady and never was. Those who actually think "that rapist guy who plays football" more than likely received that perception by the tabloids and ridiculous SI articles that raked Ben over the coals and put him on the cover.

As for you assuming that you showed the other poster that Ben was a bad teammate and bad person, well you know what happens when you ASSume!

Regardless where they got the perception, they have it and it SOLIDIFIES my point.

I didnt assume anything, I did show him and he was silent. I will repost and show you and you can help him refute the information since he is having a hard time. It will be kind of hard when Ben himself is substantiating my claims. Good luck though.

1st of all Ben said he was "caught up" in the Big Ben persona. Caught up, out of control, semantics.
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=5273150

When people THINK they are larger than life they tend to think they can get away with things.
Secondly, it is a KNOWN fact that Ben was a bad teammate. Joey Porter, Hine Ward and Whisenhunt have had run ins with the guy. If you dont believe that check my proof. In the E-60 piece hear Ben admit how hurt he was when he heard he wasnt liked. Notice he changed? Why the change if nothing was wrong? Also, it is well documented about how he treated people in the burgh. If you havent heard, feel free to read the article. I have plenty more if you need more proof. The fact that you deny the obvious is telling.

Big Ben a bad teamate. They didn't like him.
http://www.steelersgab.com/2010/04/1...dont-like-him/

Out of Bens own mouth how he wasn't liked
http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=4641995


Lastly, it is a known fact the police officers treat African American suspects quite differently than caucasian ones. Girl says "Ben raped me or assaulted me" They question Ben and let him go. Girl says Lawrence Taylor raped me, they go to his hotel and question him (he says he didnt do it, JUST LIKE BEN SAID) and he is arrested and investigated later. Thats the way it is in the judicial system sir. I ought to know, I have been in criminal justice for 22 years and I would be lying if I said I treated blacks, hispanics like I treat my own brethren. I am not a racist but I DO favor my race. There is a difference.

Downbylaw
08-23-2010, 11:50 PM
Please name ONE Black player who's simular to Ben ? Meanning, one player who is Black who was suspended who was NEVER Arrested before, let alone Indicted and had past convictions. And don't name Pac-Man, Chris Henry or Michael Vick cause ALL of them had past Incidents/arrests/convictions before Goodell ever suspended any of them. So please, enlighten me as to what Black player who was just ACCUSED...But NEVER Arrested, never charged, never Indicted, or even QUESTIONED who was suspended.


I'll be waiting for your Answer!!

Thats easy. Adam Pacman Jones. He was SUSPENDED for VIOLATION OF THE CONDUCT POLICY after he got into a fight with his bodyguard in a Hotel. NO ARREST, NO CHARGES, BUT HE WAS SUSPENDED BY GOODELL.
How was that sir???

Downbylaw
08-23-2010, 11:53 PM
Bad teammate ? How exactly did you prove to me he was a bad teammate, and what does that have to do with Goodell egregiously suspending him TWICE as long as Vick ?

When people THINK they are larger than life they tend to think they can get away with things.
Secondly, it is a KNOWN fact that Ben was a bad teammate. Joey Porter, Hine Ward and Whisenhunt have had run ins with the guy. If you dont believe that check my proof. In the E-60 piece hear Ben admit how hurt he was when he heard he wasnt liked. Notice he changed? Why the change if nothing was wrong? Also, it is well documented about how he treated people in the burgh. If you havent heard, feel free to read the article. I have plenty more if you need more proof. The fact that you deny the obvious is telling.

Big Ben a bad teamate. They didn't like him.
http://www.steelersgab.com/2010/04/1...dont-like-him/

Out of Bens own mouth how he wasn't liked
http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=4641995


Lastly, vick did 2 years in the Feds he was suspended PRIOR to that conviction. So Vick was suspended over TWO YEARS. I think you need to take off your Hood and put on your Thinking cap sir.

whatdoiknow
08-23-2010, 11:53 PM
Thats easy. Adam Pacman Jones. He was SUSPENDED for VIOLATION OF THE CONDUCT POLICY after he got into a fight with his bodyguard in a Hotel. NO ARREST, NO CHARGES, BUT HE WAS SUSPENDED BY GOODELL.
How was that sir???




Adam Jones while in Tennessee had two different arrests, and he pled guilty for DUI's before Goodell EVER Suspended him...that's TWO Arrests and convictions son. I kinda think that is WAY more egregious then ANYTHIN G Ben did...right ?



score...Me...1...you...ZERO!!

Steel_Bus_24
08-23-2010, 11:58 PM
Ask 10 ordinary people who Shaun Rogers is, they wont know. Then ask those same 10, who is Ben Roethlisberger is and they will say "That rapist guy that plays football"
Not saying Ben is a rapist but thats the perception.
You sound like the Seahawk fans after we beat them. WHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

You said Ben wasnt a bad teammate, I showed you he was. You said he wasnt a bad person, I showed you he was. Just fall in a hole because you have no ground to stand on.



Dude you only have 50 posts here, and Id wager to bet over half of them are devoted to discrediting everything Ben has done as a football player and as a human being

You reek of disguised troll...and reminds me much of another certain poster who loves to put"telling" at the end of all his posts

And as for that loser Goodell...I think everybody should check out, this and see if you think hes still being consistent

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/409221-the-hypocrisy-that-is-roger-goodell-and-the-nfl-player-conduct-policy

Downbylaw
08-24-2010, 12:00 AM
Adam Jones while in Tennessee had two different arrests, and he pled guilty for DUI's before Goodell EVER Suspended him...that's TWO Arrests and convictions son. I kinda think that is WAY more egregious then ANYTHIN G Ben did...right ?



score...Me...1...you...ZERO!!

So now you are backpedaling like Ike Taylor. You told me to name one black guy and I did. Now your onto something else? While in Tennesse the CONDUCT POLICY was not introduced as of yet. Now it is and he has been dealt with accordingly. Your name is VERY appropriate.

Downbylaw
08-24-2010, 12:01 AM
Dude you only have 50 posts here, and Id wager to bet over half of them are devoted to discrediting everything Ben has done as a football player and as a human being

You reek of disguised troll...and reminds me much of another certain poster who loves to put"telling" at the end of all his posts

And as for that loser Goodell...I think everybody should check out, this and see if you think hes still being consistent

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/409221-the-hypocrisy-that-is-roger-goodell-and-the-nfl-player-conduct-policy

So I cant post about Ben? Is that a felony? Should I be suspended without being arrested or charged? Do tell

Downbylaw
08-24-2010, 12:03 AM
Goodell wouldnt be in the equation IF Ben hadnt of been a goofball. Is Troy suspended? Why not?

whatdoiknow
08-24-2010, 12:06 AM
So now you are backpedaling like Ike Taylor. You told me to name one black guy and I did. Now your onto something else? While in Tennesse the CONDUCT POLICY was not introduced as of yet. Now it is and he has been dealt with accordingly. Your name is VERY appropriate.



First off troll, I said name ONE Black player who was suspended who had NO past arrests/convictions. Even if Goodell didn't have a conduct policy when Pac-Man was in Tennessee...which BTW is wrong. Goodell Instituted his policies in 2006. And Pac-man had SEVERAL Incidents/Arrests after 2006, and way before he got his 4 game suspension in 2009 with Dallas. Which BTW was still less then Ben's. So how is that fair ? Now my MENSA wannabe, click below to see just how GOOD of a citizen this " BLACKIE " Is!




http://bumpshack.com/2007/03/02/pacman-jones-criminal-record/

Downbylaw
08-24-2010, 12:18 AM
First off troll, I said name ONE Black player who was suspended who had NO past arrests/convictions. Even if Goodell didn't have a conduct policy when Pac-Man was in Tennessee...which BTW is wrong. Goodell Instituted his policies in 2006. And Pac-man had SEVERAL Incidents/Arrests after 2006, and way before he got his 4 game suspension in 2009 with Dallas. Which BTW was still less then Ben's. So how is that fair ? Now my MENSA wannabe, click below to see just how GOOD of a citizen this " BLACKIE " Is!




http://bumpshack.com/2007/03/02/pacman-jones-criminal-record/

I'm not defending pacman or any wrongdoer. Pacman has violated the law and has gotten what he deserves. Now do you HONESTLY think thats ALL he has done? I dont. Similarly with Ben, Ben has done wrong and is being punished for it. I have no problem with it and neither does Ben. Dont know why you do. Calling him a blackie hurts me how? Do explain

whatdoiknow
08-24-2010, 12:29 AM
I'm not defending pacman or any wrongdoer. Pacman has violated the law and has gotten what he deserves. Now do you HONESTLY think thats ALL he has done? I dont. Similarly with Ben, Ben has done wrong and is being punished for it. I have no problem with it and neither does Ben. Dont know why you do. Calling him a blackie hurts me how? Do explain



Dude, the whole point was that Ben was made a scapegoat BECAUSE he was white. And you said that Ben's suspension was a result of the leagues Conduct policy where OTHER Black players were also suspended without ever being arrested or convicted. And I said who ? Nmae one...and you named Pac-Man. And I PROVED that Jones has a long arrest History way after Goodell Instituted the Policy, and Pac-Man was not suspended then. Not until another Incident that DID lead to an arrest and plea bargain by Pac-Man. And even after that Incident, Pac still only got 4 GAMES!



So exactly how is that Fair ? And again, show me where Ben ever agreed with Goodell ? He simpley chose to accept it cause he wants it to just go away. That does not mean Ben agreed with him. Or ever admitted doing anything legally wrong.
Ben was White, and the league and the Black Caucus of America wanted their
" White Boy " hung out to dry, or Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton would have been all over Goodell's A$$! So Ben was the " Scapegoat " A Scapegoat who was Hung out to dry based on ZERO Arrests/Charges/convictions, ect, ect, ect!!

Downbylaw
08-24-2010, 12:53 AM
Dude, the whole point was that Ben was made a scapegoat BECAUSE he was white. And you said that Ben's suspension was a result of the leagues Conduct policy where OTHER Black players were also suspended without ever being arrested or convicted. And I said who ? Nmae one...and you named Pac-Man. And I PROVED that Jones has a long arrest History way after Goodell Instituted the Policy, and Pac-Man was not suspended then. Not until another Incident that DID lead to an arrest and plea bargain by Pac-Man. And even after that Incident, Pac still only got 4 GAMES!



So exactly how is that Fair ? And again, show me where Ben ever agreed with Goodell ? He simpley chose to accept it cause he wants it to just go away. That does not mean Ben agreed with him. Or ever admitted doing anything legally wrong.
Ben was White, and the league and the Black Caucus of America wanted their
" White Boy " hung out to dry, or Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton would have been all over Goodell's A$$! So Ben was the " Scapegoat " A Scapegoat who was Hung out to dry based on ZERO Arrests/Charges/convictions, ect, ect, ect!!


Question- Would Ben have been made a Scapegoat had he mad better decisions? Why are you more upset than Ben is? Do explain. Again, Goodell has pointed out that you dont need to do anything legally wrong, why cant you understand that? I know why. Out of ALL of Pacmans arrests how many convictions does he have? Do explain. As I said you need to take off your Hood and put on your thinking cap. Ben has ZERO blame in all of this, only Goodell? Interesting lol How come Hartwig, Heath, Spaeth, Aaron Smith or any other white guys on the STeelers arent suspended?
Look at it this way "Archie Bunker". The black guys are the CORE of the team. If you eliminate them from the team, the Steelers would suck. A little perspective for you Archie.

whatdoiknow
08-24-2010, 01:05 AM
I don't know. Maybe because all those other White guys aren't as well known or as recognizable as Ben. Maybe because all of them are married ? Look, I never said Ben did not act Immature, cause he did. All I said is that his punishment was NOT based on anything that was fair, just as an example of. And that makes Goodell a hypocrite, and appeaser to the Black Caucus of America, which is what he was doing. You can deny it all you want, but sooner or later another player, maybe even a BLACK player will also JUST be accused of wrongdoings by a chick just looking for publicity or a Pay day, and that player will not be arrested, or charged or anything, and lets see what Goodell does then. Cause ANY sort of suspension that is lesser than Ben's will be hypocritical. But any suspension equal to it will I'M CERTAIN bring out the Jesse Jackson's and the Tony Dungy's of the world saying that the suspension is too long and not warrented. Just wait and see. Ben did nothing wrong except for acting juvenile, and for NOT being smart enough in this day and age in by bugging himself, or having some sort of small camera on him, to record EVERYTHING that goes on when he chooses to hit the scene. That way if anyone claims Ben did anything, Ben would have documented proof that he did not. In fact why players don't do that more often I don't know. So Ben was an Idiot for not protecting himself. And Ben was guilty of exercising juvenile behavior for sure. But Ben never at anytime ever did anything remotely Illegal, or Devient.

Downbylaw
08-24-2010, 01:32 AM
I don't know. Maybe because all those other White guys aren't as well known or as recognizable as Ben. Maybe because all of them are married ? Look, I never said Ben did not act Immature, cause he did. All I said is that his punishment was NOT based on anything that was fair, just as an example of. And that makes Goodell a hypocrite, and appeaser to the Black Caucus of America, which is what he was doing. You can deny it all you want, but sooner or later another player, maybe even a BLACK player will also JUST be accused of wrongdoings by a chick just looking for publicity or a Pay day, and that player will not be arrested, or charged or anything, and lets see what Goodell does then. Cause ANY sort of suspension that is lesser than Ben's will be hypocritical. But any suspension equal to it will I'M CERTAIN bring out the Jesse Jackson's and the Tony Dungy's of the world saying that the suspension is too long and not warrented. Just wait and see. Ben did nothing wrong except for acting juvenile, and for NOT being smart enough in this day and age in by bugging himself, or having some sort of small camera on him, to record EVERYTHING that goes on when he chooses to hit the scene. That way if anyone claims Ben did anything, Ben would have documented proof that he did not. In fact why players don't do that more often I don't know. So Ben was an Idiot for not protecting himself. And Ben was guilty of exercising juvenile behavior for sure. But Ben never at anytime ever did anything remotely Illegal, or Devient.

If your diatribe is accurate then why didnt Goodell hit Matt Jones (whom is white and convicted) with a hearty suspension to appease these (let me do it like you) BLACK people? Do you know the backlash that the NFL got due to Bens actions? How about the Steelers? It was so bad that OUR OWN OWNER BEGGED fore action against him. But I guess hes an appeaser as well huh? Of course he is he hired a black coach lol. Since when has Jesse Jackson been relevant in the black community? Not since the 80's, come on FESTUS get out more lol. Dont you find it odd that players popular than Ben like Brady and Favre have never had any of these same charges? In fact THE ONLY SIGNIFICANT PLAYER IN THE HISTORY OF THE NFL TO HAVE BEEN ACCUSED OF RAPE TWICE IS BEN ROETHLISBERGER. Imagine that! You still havent answered the question. How come Spaeth, Aaron Smith, Hartwig or any of the other white guys are suspended? Lastly, what would happen to our team if all the BLACK guys wernt there. Worse yet, what if the league was segregated, would we ever win a game? Douby it. A little perspective for you FESTUS.

whatdoiknow
08-24-2010, 01:44 AM
If your diatribe is accurate then why didnt Goodell hit Matt Jones (whom is white and convicted) with a hearty suspension to appease these (let me do it like you) BLACK people? Do you know the backlash that the NFL got due to Bens actions? How about the Steelers? It was so bad that OUR OWN OWNER BEGGED fore action against him. But I guess hes an appeaser as well huh? Of course he is he hired a black coach lol. Since when has Jesse Jackson been relevant in the black community? Not since the 80's, come on FESTUS get out more lol. Dont you find it odd that players popular than Ben like Brady and Favre have never had any of these same charges? In fact THE ONLY SIGNIFICANT PLAYER IN THE HISTORY OF THE NFL TO HAVE BEEN ACCUSED OF RAPE TWICE IS BEN ROETHLISBERGER. Imagine that! You still havent answered the question. How come Spaeth, Aaron Smith, Hartwig or any of the other white guys are suspended? Lastly, what would happen to our team if all the BLACK guys wernt there. Worse yet, what if the league was segregated, would we ever win a game? Douby it. A little perspective for you FESTUS.





You're right. Our owner did come out and lambast Ben BEFORE any facts were in. And that does not make the Rooney's appeasers. It DOES However make them extreme Hypocrites. Cause many other Steeler players did ACTUAL Crimes,,,e.g., PROVEN crimes, and were NEVER Suspended any games. Either by the league, or by them..( Rooney's )...but yet a totally Innocent Ben...THEN they all of a sudden get righteous...Yeah okay then.

Downbylaw
08-24-2010, 02:05 AM
You're right. Our owner did come out and lambast Ben BEFORE any facts were in. And that does not make the Rooney's appeasers. It DOES However make them extreme Hypocrites. Cause many other Steeler players did ACTUAL Crimes,,,e.g., PROVEN crimes, and were NEVER Suspended any games. Either by the league, or by them..( Rooney's )...but yet a totally Innocent Ben...THEN they all of a sudden get righteous...Yeah okay then.

You said Harrison BEAT THE CRAP out of his gf. HOW COME you havent provided proof. I asked for it yesterday

whatdoiknow
08-24-2010, 09:16 AM
You said Harrison BEAT THE CRAP out of his gf. HOW COME you havent provided proof. I asked for it yesterday





http://www.usatoday.com/sports/football/2008-03-09-3881199000_x.htm




STOP!...Hammer Time!! :flap:

Downbylaw
08-24-2010, 10:50 AM
http://www.usatoday.com/sports/football/2008-03-09-3881199000_x.htm




STOP!...Hammer Time!! :flap:

Reread my original statement I acknowledged that he SLAPPED her. You said he BEAT THE CRAP OUT OF HER. That is what you were supposed to prove. I'll wait

chacha
08-24-2010, 11:26 AM
Regardless where they got the perception, they have it and it SOLIDIFIES my point.

I didnt assume anything, I did show him and he was silent. I will repost and show you and you can help him refute the information since he is having a hard time. It will be kind of hard when Ben himself is substantiating my claims. Good luck though.

1st of all Ben said he was "caught up" in the Big Ben persona. Caught up, out of control, semantics.
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=5273150

When people THINK they are larger than life they tend to think they can get away with things.
Secondly, it is a KNOWN fact that Ben was a bad teammate. Joey Porter, Hine Ward and Whisenhunt have had run ins with the guy. If you dont believe that check my proof. In the E-60 piece hear Ben admit how hurt he was when he heard he wasnt liked. Notice he changed? Why the change if nothing was wrong? Also, it is well documented about how he treated people in the burgh. If you havent heard, feel free to read the article. I have plenty more if you need more proof. The fact that you deny the obvious is telling.

Big Ben a bad teamate. They didn't like him.
http://www.steelersgab.com/2010/04/1...dont-like-him/

Out of Bens own mouth how he wasn't liked
http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=4641995


Lastly, it is a known fact the police officers treat African American suspects quite differently than caucasian ones. Girl says "Ben raped me or assaulted me" They question Ben and let him go. Girl says Lawrence Taylor raped me, they go to his hotel and question him (he says he didnt do it, JUST LIKE BEN SAID) and he is arrested and investigated later. Thats the way it is in the judicial system sir. I ought to know, I have been in criminal justice for 22 years and I would be lying if I said I treated blacks, hispanics like I treat my own brethren. I am not a racist but I DO favor my race. There is a difference.

Every post of yours is anti Ben. Perception based on media BS doesnt solidify your point that Ben is an embarrasment.

You keep harping that he was a bad teammate, strange you leave out his friendships, hanging out with Colon, taking the O Line out all the time. So what he had some problems with a teammate, you think Brady is best friends with most of his team??

If you favor your race and you are in criminal justice (as what by the way?) then perhaps you should resign

mikegrimey
08-24-2010, 04:48 PM
Its funny how my white brethren sat back for YEARS and watched all of the black guys get suspended and they clapped and said Goodell is good for the NFL. However, when one of our own gets the same treatment now everyone wants to play the race card. When blacks do it it is highly resisted. Ben being white had nothing to do with his suspension. Ben being STUPID did. Why do you guys fail to see that? Do you think Goodell is the kind of man to cave to pressure? I dont. What color was Matt Jones? He played the whole 2nd half without a suspension after a COCAINE CONVICTION. I have gained an immense amount of respect for Ben after all this. For his has taken his suspension like a man, didnt appeal it and is showing true growth. However, some of his suporters are whinning and crying like Seahawk fans after SB 40. Had Ben behaved appropriately, then there would be no suspension. Blame BEN, not Goodell.
Is Troy Suspended? Why not? Because he didnt do anything. The same would apply to Ben IF he hadnt done anything that night. And to all of you HOMER PYLES Who say "he wasnt charged, he wasnt arrested" I say, I ran a red light last week but didnt get a ticket so does that mean I didnt do anything wrong?

Your argument here is useless because you imeeidately start of with a stereotyped assumption. That I sat back and clapped for years over black people in the NFL being suspended, which isn't the case at all.
If you knew anything about me you'd know I was one of hte most vehemently against Vick being punished the excessive way he was (by the penal system and the NFL combined) but that's not relevant to this argument.
I'm not playign the race card, just calling things as they are. Ben's race had a factor in his punishment, you think Amani Toomer was only speaking for himself?

Also you are getting into tricky territory over what "acting appropriately" is.
You won't find many people who will deny that what Ben did was foolish for an athlete of his staure, but in the same vein, these are only accusations and could be complete lies, which, if the case, Ben is being punished for nothing.
It's easy for you to sit back and judge somebody from a moral standpoint saying they shouldn't be partying in college towns and trying to bang college chics, but what does that have to do with the argument at hand? That's all moral subjectivism. This is the 21st century in the USA, you can't convict a man for having a raging labido.

In the end you shouldn't make weak assumptions like that about me. That I pointed out race as being a factor in Ben's suspension isn't anything shocking, I figured it was common knowledge among the thinking crowd, maybe I was wrong. I'm not trying to dispute that Ben acted stupidly but I am disputing that he should have been made an example of just like Vick did something illegal and wrong but was punished to excess to make a point.

Downbylaw
08-24-2010, 08:21 PM
Every post of yours is anti Ben. Perception based on media BS doesnt solidify your point that Ben is an embarrasment.

You keep harping that he was a bad teammate, strange you leave out his friendships, hanging out with Colon, taking the O Line out all the time. So what he had some problems with a teammate, you think Brady is best friends with most of his team??

If you favor your race and you are in criminal justice (as what by the way?) then perhaps you should resign

PROVE every post of mine is anti Ben. I posted that Ben shouldnt play with the THIRD teamers and he shouldnt. Is that anti Ben? I merely tell the truth about Ben and some of you homers dont liike the truth.
I dont harp that he was a bad teammate, his TEAMMATES put out that information and I even substantiated that with BEN HIMSELF saying the same thing. You mentioned he was with Colon. Its it ironic that Colon QUICKLY distanced himself from Ben when he got in trouble? In fact Colon immediately issued a statement saying "I can offer no help to the investigation". How many Steeler players stepped up in Bens defense and said "Ben is not like that, He has women throwing themselves at him all the time. Ben doesnt have to rape anyone" ZERO Steelers did that sir.If you watched the ESPN piece you would see that Ben said he started hanging around his mates because they didnt like him. He made a change. Which is good. You favor your race too, its human nature, you just dont admit it. Evidence? There is a racist on this board who has constantly disrespected black people and how many have spoke out in defense of their rights? ZERO. I rest my case. Lastly, show me where i have ever lied on Ben Roethlisberger. Thx bro

Downbylaw
08-24-2010, 08:39 PM
Your argument here is useless because you imeeidately start of with a stereotyped assumption. That I sat back and clapped for years over black people in the NFL being suspended, which isn't the case at all.
If you knew anything about me you'd know I was one of hte most vehemently against Vick being punished the excessive way he was (by the penal system and the NFL combined) but that's not relevant to this argument.
I'm not playign the race card, just calling things as they are. Ben's race had a factor in his punishment, you think Amani Toomer was only speaking for himself?

Also you are getting into tricky territory over what "acting appropriately" is.
You won't find many people who will deny that what Ben did was foolish for an athlete of his staure, but in the same vein, these are only accusations and could be complete lies, which, if the case, Ben is being punished for nothing.
It's easy for you to sit back and judge somebody from a moral standpoint saying they shouldn't be partying in college towns and trying to bang college chics, but what does that have to do with the argument at hand? That's all moral subjectivism. This is the 21st century in the USA, you can't convict a man for having a raging labido.

In the end you shouldn't make weak assumptions like that about me. That I pointed out race as being a factor in Ben's suspension isn't anything shocking, I figured it was common knowledge among the thinking crowd, maybe I was wrong. I'm not trying to dispute that Ben acted stupidly but I am disputing that he should have been made an example of just like Vick did something illegal and wrong but was punished to excess to make a point.


I love how you have nominated yourself as the moderator of relevant posts. I never said you did, I stated "brethren" does that mean ALL, no it does not but I can CERTAINLY show you numerous posts and articles of said applauding when Goodell was cleaning up the league and most of those being infracted werent us. I applaud Goodell (except for Bellicheat. He should have been suspended). Dont know how you turn a general statement into a statement of consensus. I disagree with you I think Vick got what he deserved.

You dismiss my statement because "you" werent against Vick of thats fine so how do you justify saying that Toomer was speaking for all blacks? Hypocrisy at its finest. I dont know who Toomer was speaking for but I DO know that Goodell is not the type of guy to be bullied, persuaded or forced into anything. His track record bears witness to that. Ben was suspended because WOMEN across the land were TICKED OFF when the details of his STUPID behavior were released. The NFL is a very popular product and to have TWO rape allegation within a year, well something has to be done and he took action. Had nothing to do with race had everything to do with a reckless individual making bad decisions. I GUARANTEE this suspension will make Ben a better individual. For you to imply that Goodell is listening to the black masses, to that I say where is your proof? Please present your proof if you are truthful.

You said these accusations "could be" lies. Could be but he is not punished for the RAPE. He is punished for his BAD CONDUCT and if you think he didnt display BAD CONDUCT then you need to be enlightened. I never once said "Ben shouldnt be in college towns" etc. However, I will say as the qb of my team he shouldnt he running around a bar with his pecker out or locked in a restroom with a woman, with a bodyguard outside the door. There are MANY little kids who looked up to Ben and LOVE Ben. Is this the behavior you want them learning? Some people need to stop posting JUST for arguments sake.

mikegrimey
08-24-2010, 11:00 PM
I love how you have nominated yourself as the moderator of relevant posts. I never said you did, I stated "brethren" does that mean ALL, no it does not but I can CERTAINLY show you numerous posts and articles of said applauding when Goodell was cleaning up the league and most of those being infracted werent us. I applaud Goodell (except for Bellicheat. He should have been suspended). Dont know how you turn a general statement into a statement of consensus. I disagree with you I think Vick got what he deserved.

You dismiss my statement because "you" werent against Vick of thats fine so how do you justify saying that Toomer was speaking for all blacks? Hypocrisy at its finest. I dont know who Toomer was speaking for but I DO know that Goodell is not the type of guy to be bullied, persuaded or forced into anything. His track record bears witness to that. Ben was suspended because WOMEN across the land were TICKED OFF when the details of his STUPID behavior were released. The NFL is a very popular product and to have TWO rape allegation within a year, well something has to be done and he took action. Had nothing to do with race had everything to do with a reckless individual making bad decisions. I GUARANTEE this suspension will make Ben a better individual. For you to imply that Goodell is listening to the black masses, to that I say where is your proof? Please present your proof if you are truthful.

You said these accusations "could be" lies. Could be but he is not punished for the RAPE. He is punished for his BAD CONDUCT and if you think he didnt display BAD CONDUCT then you need to be enlightened. I never once said "Ben shouldnt be in college towns" etc. However, I will say as the qb of my team he shouldnt he running around a bar with his pecker out or locked in a restroom with a woman, with a bodyguard outside the door. There are MANY little kids who looked up to Ben and LOVE Ben. Is this the behavior you want them learning? Some people need to stop posting JUST for arguments sake.

First of you will have to forgive me if you weren't referring to me personally with that "my white brethren" comment, since you quoted my post while saying it I assumed you were talking about me.

Now you know very well as I do that I can't prove that Goddel was influenced in making his decision by PC elitist bozos anymore than you can prove that Ben was actually participating in "Bad conduct" in Georgia, so it's a moot point.

As for Vick I certainly think it's heinous that a couple of whistleblowers and brains behind the scheme got off with light sentences while he spent two years in prison and then suffered a suspension from the league on top of it. What he did was criminal but two years for a crime that most will receive 6 months or less for is heinous.

I will applaud you for mentioning another angle that possible influenced Ben's excessive punishment though, feminists. It never even crossed my mind, I'm sad to say. Race and gender have a lot to do with how people are perceived like it or not.
I wasn't implying Toomer was speaking for the whole black race, but other black veterans in the NFL. He was specifically saying "I will be watching to see what he does to whitey" which is a joke. PC elitists try to stick their nose into almost anything they can and use it to champion their cause. I just can't wait until there is an openly gay player in the NFL so homosexual PC elitists can jump into the fray too.

As for the rest, all moral relativism, what you call bad behavior is subjective as subjective can get, in what world is having a labido a reason to classify a man as "reckless" or condemn them of showing "bad behavior", it's all bunk and twisted to fit whatever world view an individual has.

I won't even dignify a response to your "think of the children" cliched plea at the end of the argument.

Suffice to say that we're almost on the same wave length personally. I think what Ben did was foolish. Poor in judgment. Not professionally saavy by any means.

Yet wherein do people become the pontif of morality and reserve the right to condemn others for something that isn't illegal? If, in the end, these accusations all turn to nill, what will people say then? "oh we overreacted". It's easy to sit on a high horse and judge a man ethically because of what he does, but that's all nonsense. The accusations took on a life of their own and became a huge story attracting the attention of PC elitists all over the country. It's a bit naive to think that Goddell felt no pressure at all from these sources to give Ben a sturdy punishment, to make an example of him so to say.

I'm also with you on a lot of Steelers fans, they just exonerate Ben because he plays for them, if Tom Brady had gotten these two accusations this board would be in an uproar with people cracking jokes and premptively calling Brady a "rapist" the same way they like to classify ray lewis as a "murderer".

I'm not saying that I approve of how Ben acted, but you shouldn't punish a man for lusting women younger than him. It's a slippery slope once a symbolic figurehead because the morality police. It was an excessive punishment that was influenced by the slovenly racially and gender biased of our times.

Downbylaw
08-24-2010, 11:21 PM
First of you will have to forgive me if you weren't referring to me personally with that "my white brethren" comment, since you quoted my post while saying it I assumed you were talking about me.

Now you know very well as I do that I can't prove that Goddel was influenced in making his decision by PC elitist bozos anymore than you can prove that Ben was actually participating in "Bad conduct" in Georgia, so it's a moot point.

As for Vick I certainly think it's heinous that a couple of whistleblowers and brains behind the scheme got off with light sentences while he spent two years in prison and then suffered a suspension from the league on top of it. What he did was criminal but two years for a crime that most will receive 6 months or less for is heinous.

I will applaud you for mentioning another angle that possible influenced Ben's excessive punishment though, feminists. It never even crossed my mind, I'm sad to say. Race and gender have a lot to do with how people are perceived like it or not.
I wasn't implying Toomer was speaking for the whole black race, but other black veterans in the NFL. He was specifically saying "I will be watching to see what he does to whitey" which is a joke. PC elitists try to stick their nose into almost anything they can and use it to champion their cause. I just can't wait until there is an openly gay player in the NFL so homosexual PC elitists can jump into the fray too.

As for the rest, all moral relativism, what you call bad behavior is subjective as subjective can get, in what world is having a labido a reason to classify a man as "reckless" or condemn them of showing "bad behavior", it's all bunk and twisted to fit whatever world view an individual has.

I won't even dignify a response to your "think of the children" cliched plea at the end of the argument.

Suffice to say that we're almost on the same wave length personally. I think what Ben did was foolish. Poor in judgment. Not professionally saavy by any means.

Yet wherein do people become the pontif of morality and reserve the right to condemn others for something that isn't illegal? If, in the end, these accusations all turn to nill, what will people say then? "oh we overreacted". It's easy to sit on a high horse and judge a man ethically because of what he does, but that's all nonsense. The accusations took on a life of their own and became a huge story attracting the attention of PC elitists all over the country. It's a bit naive to think that Goddell felt no pressure at all from these sources to give Ben a sturdy punishment, to make an example of him so to say.

I'm also with you on a lot of Steelers fans, they just exonerate Ben because he plays for them, if Tom Brady had gotten these two accusations this board would be in an uproar with people cracking jokes and premptively calling Brady a "rapist" the same way they like to classify ray lewis as a "murderer".

I'm not saying that I approve of how Ben acted, but you shouldn't punish a man for lusting women younger than him. It's a slippery slope once a symbolic figurehead because the morality police. It was an excessive punishment that was influenced by the slovenly racially and gender biased of our times.


I understand the mixup. Not a problem. I have already proved that Ben was guilty of Bad conduct. Men dont go around with their peckers exposed in public, its AGAINST THE LAW. Proof enough?
In regards to Vick. Well that is how the system works. If you cooperate with Law officials they will give you a break i.e lighter sentence. Yes their was a huge outcry from Women in regards to Ben Roethlisberger and ESPECIALLY in Pittsburgh. Yes, gender and race are two components that you cant avoid in America. I think Goodell came into his job as a "down play around" Commish and he has reamined that way. Steeler fans cant cry foul because one of our own got hit. IT AMAZES me how Steeler fans can be madder at Goodell than they are at Ben. AMAZING.

What I call bad behavior is not subjective. Of course you can say that but can you prove it? You cant. I can prove that walking with you pecker exposed is not only bad conduct but against the law. Go downtown tonight and walk downtown with yourself exposed and post to us when you get bonded out ok? Proof that its bad conduct.

I dont know if the allegations are true or false and you have yet to see me speak in terms of them. However, I do find it odd that EVERYTHING fell in Bens favor in regard to the events. 1. Video Tape erased. 2. Bathroom scrubbed clean. 3. Accusser drops her complaint and refuses to testify. 4. Roethlisberger not charged. 5. No civil suit filed by the accuser. I must say that THAT IS AMAZING. I have been in the Criminal Justice business a long time and I must say that the only individuals with that kind of luck, have Mafia ties and or Drug Kingpins. Seriously.

I agree with you in regard to Brady and Ray Lewis. Some, well MOST Steeler fans are hypocrits and I agree they would certainly call Brady a rapist. I however, am not a hypocrit or biased, or try not to be. I rememeber in SB 40, when they gave Ben a TD, I had a coy look on my face because I KNEW he didnt get in but was I going to admit it? Heck no! I condem Ben for embarrasing my team. Thats it. Lastly, lusting after women is not a good thing. Sorry

whatdoiknow
08-24-2010, 11:25 PM
First of you will have to forgive me if you weren't referring to me personally with that "my white brethren" comment, since you quoted my post while saying it I assumed you were talking about me.

Now you know very well as I do that I can't prove that Goddel was influenced in making his decision by PC elitist bozos anymore than you can prove that Ben was actually participating in "Bad conduct" in Georgia, so it's a moot point.

As for Vick I certainly think it's heinous that a couple of whistleblowers and brains behind the scheme got off with light sentences while he spent two years in prison and then suffered a suspension from the league on top of it. What he did was criminal but two years for a crime that most will receive 6 months or less for is heinous.

I will applaud you for mentioning another angle that possible influenced Ben's excessive punishment though, feminists. It never even crossed my mind, I'm sad to say. Race and gender have a lot to do with how people are perceived like it or not.
I wasn't implying Toomer was speaking for the whole black race, but other black veterans in the NFL. He was specifically saying "I will be watching to see what he does to whitey" which is a joke. PC elitists try to stick their nose into almost anything they can and use it to champion their cause. I just can't wait until there is an openly gay player in the NFL so homosexual PC elitists can jump into the fray too.

As for the rest, all moral relativism, what you call bad behavior is subjective as subjective can get, in what world is having a labido a reason to classify a man as "reckless" or condemn them of showing "bad behavior", it's all bunk and twisted to fit whatever world view an individual has.

I won't even dignify a response to your "think of the children" cliched plea at the end of the argument.

Suffice to say that we're almost on the same wave length personally. I think what Ben did was foolish. Poor in judgment. Not professionally saavy by any means.

Yet wherein do people become the pontif of morality and reserve the right to condemn others for something that isn't illegal? If, in the end, these accusations all turn to nill, what will people say then? "oh we overreacted". It's easy to sit on a high horse and judge a man ethically because of what he does, but that's all nonsense. The accusations took on a life of their own and became a huge story attracting the attention of PC elitists all over the country. It's a bit naive to think that Goddell felt no pressure at all from these sources to give Ben a sturdy punishment, to make an example of him so to say.

I'm also with you on a lot of Steelers fans, they just exonerate Ben because he plays for them, if Tom Brady had gotten these two accusations this board would be in an uproar with people cracking jokes and premptively calling Brady a "rapist" the same way they like to classify ray lewis as a "murderer".

I'm not saying that I approve of how Ben acted, but you shouldn't punish a man for lusting women younger than him. It's a slippery slope once a symbolic figurehead because the morality police. It was an excessive punishment that was influenced by the slovenly racially and gender biased of our times.





You're an Idiot!

Vick was the clear " Patriarch " of that whole venture. He started Bad Newz Kennels before he was even drafted. Based on a loan he got based on his potential earnings. Also, his co-defendents also received 24 Months in Jail, and the other one got More time. Vick is a known " Scumbag Gangsta " Always has been. And remember, Vick also has been caught and convicted twice before on Dope charges. One of them between the time he pled guilty for Dog fighting, and Animal Torture,,,AFTER he said he was sorry, and will be a good citizen...Yeah right Michael whatever!



Stop defending the little Gangsta Sociopath!

Downbylaw
08-24-2010, 11:34 PM
You're an Idiot!

Vick was the clear " Patriarch " of that whole venture. He started Bad Newz Kennels before he was even drafted. Based on a loan he got based on his potential earnings. Also, his co-defendents also received 24 Months in Jail, and the other one got More time. Vick is a known " Scumbag Gangsta " Always has been. And remember, Vick also has been caught and convicted twice before on Dope charges. One of them between the time he pled guilty for Dog fighting, and Animal Torture,,,AFTER he said he was sorry, and will be a good citizen...Yeah right Michael whatever!



Stop defending the little Gangsta Sociopath!

What if he doesnt stop defending him, what will happen? LOL

chacha
08-25-2010, 10:29 AM
PROVE every post of mine is anti Ben. I posted that Ben shouldnt play with the THIRD teamers and he shouldnt. Is that anti Ben? I merely tell the truth about Ben and some of you homers dont liike the truth.
I dont harp that he was a bad teammate, his TEAMMATES put out that information and I even substantiated that with BEN HIMSELF saying the same thing. You mentioned he was with Colon. Its it ironic that Colon QUICKLY distanced himself from Ben when he got in trouble? In fact Colon immediately issued a statement saying "I can offer no help to the investigation". How many Steeler players stepped up in Bens defense and said "Ben is not like that, He has women throwing themselves at him all the time. Ben doesnt have to rape anyone" ZERO Steelers did that sir.If you watched the ESPN piece you would see that Ben said he started hanging around his mates because they didnt like him. He made a change. Which is good. You favor your race too, its human nature, you just dont admit it. Evidence? There is a racist on this board who has constantly disrespected black people and how many have spoke out in defense of their rights? ZERO. I rest my case. Lastly, show me where i have ever lied on Ben Roethlisberger. Thx bro

I spoke out in defense of all the people that you admit you treat differently because of race at your so called job.

No need to thank me again for pointing that out to you, bro

Downbylaw
08-25-2010, 07:34 PM
I spoke out in defense of all the people that you admit you treat differently because of race at your so called job.

No need to thank me again for pointing that out to you, bro

I didnt say I treated them differently at my job, I said I FAVOR MY RACE. That is what I said sir. Shall I expound on what I meant? If I am watching a MMA fight and I see a white guy vs a Russian, Hispanic, Black or whatever, I automatically root for the white guy. Thats what I mean by favoring my race. Human Nature buddy. But when a guy is calling people BLACKIE and nobody says anything to him, that says a lot to me.........

mikegrimey
08-25-2010, 07:47 PM
I understand the mixup. Not a problem. I have already proved that Ben was guilty of Bad conduct. Men dont go around with their peckers exposed in public, its AGAINST THE LAW. Proof enough?
In regards to Vick. Well that is how the system works. If you cooperate with Law officials they will give you a break i.e lighter sentence. Yes their was a huge outcry from Women in regards to Ben Roethlisberger and ESPECIALLY in Pittsburgh. Yes, gender and race are two components that you cant avoid in America. I think Goodell came into his job as a "down play around" Commish and he has reamined that way. Steeler fans cant cry foul because one of our own got hit. IT AMAZES me how Steeler fans can be madder at Goodell than they are at Ben. AMAZING.

What I call bad behavior is not subjective. Of course you can say that but can you prove it? You cant. I can prove that walking with you pecker exposed is not only bad conduct but against the law. Go downtown tonight and walk downtown with yourself exposed and post to us when you get bonded out ok? Proof that its bad conduct.

I dont know if the allegations are true or false and you have yet to see me speak in terms of them. However, I do find it odd that EVERYTHING fell in Bens favor in regard to the events. 1. Video Tape erased. 2. Bathroom scrubbed clean. 3. Accusser drops her complaint and refuses to testify. 4. Roethlisberger not charged. 5. No civil suit filed by the accuser. I must say that THAT IS AMAZING. I have been in the Criminal Justice business a long time and I must say that the only individuals with that kind of luck, have Mafia ties and or Drug Kingpins. Seriously.

I agree with you in regard to Brady and Ray Lewis. Some, well MOST Steeler fans are hypocrits and I agree they would certainly call Brady a rapist. I however, am not a hypocrit or biased, or try not to be. I rememeber in SB 40, when they gave Ben a TD, I had a coy look on my face because I KNEW he didnt get in but was I going to admit it? Heck no! I condem Ben for embarrasing my team. Thats it. Lastly, lusting after women is not a good thing. Sorry


First thing, was it ever actually confirmed that Ben was really swinging his junk around in the hallway of that bar? Far as I know it's only alleged and part of the woman's testimony.
I may be wrong but I never remember anybody proving this, if they have I stand corrected.

I see why you're amazed at Steelers fans for trashing Goddel to the extent they have but it doesn't amaze me since most people could care less who or for what the commissioner suspends people for so long as they're disinterested. I'm not "mad" at Goddel persay, but I can see how his disciplinary hammer was sharpened by PC elitists, which draws my ire for sure.

The rest about everyting falling in Ben's favor does a good job of speculating, but not confirming his guilt, which I know you concede. I've had several level headed conversations with my boss at work who is a Brown's fan and we both can see the story in a few different ways. It's possible that he raped her, but it's also possible that the woman willingly engaged in the act only to feel embarassment later and be goaded into making allegations by a friend. It's entirely possible that the truth is somewhere in all the middle of those two scenarios (ever seen teh movie Rashomon? A great examiniation of conflicting and incompatible eye-witness accounts of a rape/murder in feudal japan).
So we're on the same page as to the actual allegations and I will back off my claims of subjective "bad behavior" if there is proof that Ben was swining his junk around in public. The last bit where you condemn the lusting of women is nothing but subjective moralism however. Some may not find it to be a good thing while others may find it to be a beautiful thing. I think we can all agree that so long as the lusting never leads to illegal behavior it is no reason to be reprimanded.

Lastly we do agree that the majority of Steelers fans in this regard are hypocrites, they're willing to defend Ben as if he was their own child and go to bat for him in a way they never would have for someone like Vick.

Just look at WhatdoIknow and how he immediately resorts to ad hominem against me because I feel Vick received an egregiously long sentence compared to the other criminals (and brains behind the scheme) in the case and to add insult the NFL made an example out of him too. I never once defended Vick's actions, I think they were as stupid as stupid gets, but I don't preemptively condemn him as a thug or whatever else. WhatdoIknow would burn Vick at the stake but take a bullet for Ben, I find that hilarious.

mikegrimey
08-25-2010, 07:54 PM
You're an Idiot!

Vick was the clear " Patriarch " of that whole venture. He started Bad Newz Kennels before he was even drafted. Based on a loan he got based on his potential earnings. Also, his co-defendents also received 24 Months in Jail, and the other one got More time. Vick is a known " Scumbag Gangsta " Always has been. And remember, Vick also has been caught and convicted twice before on Dope charges. One of them between the time he pled guilty for Dog fighting, and Animal Torture,,,AFTER he said he was sorry, and will be a good citizen...Yeah right Michael whatever!



Stop defending the little Gangsta Sociopath!


Since when did using dope make somebody a "gangsta sociopath".?
If I wasn't given so many random drug tests in my line of work I'd be using it too.


do you even understand my argument?
I'm not exonerating Vick, just citing how he received unjust and unproportional punishment so he could be made an example of. I never once commented on him "changing" or "being sorry". If anything I'd imagine he is very bitter (this is all speculation) and resents his former "friends" who squealed to get a lighter sentence while pushing him towards the hangman's noose, and the hypocritical judges of morality that brand him as a war criminal. Hell if I'd been through a similar situation I would probably hate hate hate. That's just me though I don't know or pretend to know how Vick is handling the situation or if he is sorry or if he's changed.

I just think he was treated unfairly so as to be made a mockery and example of, nothing more. I wonder, has anyone else ever spent 2 years in jail for dogfighting?
I'm no dogfighting protege but I've been to places like Texas and Georgia where it isn't uncommon by any means, I've never read any story about a convicted dog abuser getting multiple years in prison. If there are some please link them up.

Downbylaw
08-25-2010, 08:07 PM
Of course EVERYTHING is alleged when it comes to Ben. Sorry SEVERAL witnesses gave statements in regard to his bad conduct but sugarcoat it any way you like sir. PC elitist would have no voice if Ben hadnt acted abnormally. That is what you are missing. Without the action none of this is a topic of conversation. How is that point missed? WOW.
Speculating? Do you watch old dragnet shows, Matlock? Law and Order? How am I speculating when I'm reporting the FACTS as they happened? I named FIVE things, now please point out which one is not a FACT. None of the 5 are speculatory, NONE. They all happened.
You say I believe Ben to be a rapist. Thats a lie! Had I felt that way, I would have said so. Notice I have never said that. I wasnt there, I dont know what happened but its kind of hard to call a man a rapist when the sex kit say NO SEXUAL PENETRATION OCCURED. GET IT?

Sorry lusting for women is condemnned by God and by any person with good sense. What do you think of the guy in the bar running around chasing every woman he sees? its dispicable. How about the campus **** who does the same? Would you want or excuse your mother or daughter if they lusted after men? Do tell.

Your take on Steeler fans etc is SPOT ON. Finally, a Steeler fan who can look at things rationally without being clouded by the jersey.

mikegrimey
08-25-2010, 08:52 PM
Of course EVERYTHING is alleged when it comes to Ben. Sorry SEVERAL witnesses gave statements in regard to his bad conduct but sugarcoat it any way you like sir. PC elitist would have no voice if Ben hadnt acted abnormally. That is what you are missing. Without the action none of this is a topic of conversation. How is that point missed? WOW.
Speculating? Do you watch old dragnet shows, Matlock? Law and Order? How am I speculating when I'm reporting the FACTS as they happened? I named FIVE things, now please point out which one is not a FACT. None of the 5 are speculatory, NONE. They all happened.
You say I believe Ben to be a rapist. Thats a lie! Had I felt that way, I would have said so. Notice I have never said that. I wasnt there, I dont know what happened but its kind of hard to call a man a rapist when the sex kit say NO SEXUAL PENETRATION OCCURED. GET IT?

Sorry lusting for women is condemnned by God and by any person with good sense. What do you think of the guy in the bar running around chasing every woman he sees? its dispicable. How about the campus **** who does the same? Would you want or excuse your mother or daughter if they lusted after men? Do tell.

Your take on Steeler fans etc is SPOT ON. Finally, a Steeler fan who can look at things rationally without being clouded by the jersey.

First off, re-read my post, you are accusing me of a few things that are not true, namely that I said you think Ben is a rapist. I never said that.

The part about speculation is how you are specuating his guilt, not the things that happened. The tapes being destroyed or disappearing or whatever doesn't necessitate Ben's guilt anymore than it necessitates his innocence that is what I was saying, understand?

Please don't mention fictitious television shows, your argument is not a bad one by any means but bringing up nonsense like matlock or law and order it is hurting your credibility. I know police and have been around police when they're working and those shows are nothing by hyperboles with lots of dramatic liberties taken so as to "entertain" an audience.

I won't even take your morality derived from God seriously, like I said that's subjective because not everyone adheres to your religion. All subjective such as "anyone with good sense won't do this" surely you have read religious texts? Surely you've noticed that King's have a number of concubines?

You can condemn a man for chasing tail but there is nothing illegal or immoral in it objectively. Some people find profanity something to condemn, myself, I engage in it freely and vocally, would I chide you for not doing so? No because it's subjective. So just because you perceive sleeping with lots of women to be immoral doesn't mean anyone else has to or that it's something that should be frowned upon. Now, if you were to argue that the STeelers as an organization frown upon it, you would have an argument for the Rooney's wanting to discipline Ben, of course, they would have to be consistent and penalize all of their players for sleeping with lots of women.

I'll once again ignore your "think of the children" plea about my mother or unborn daughter. I'm fair game for women to lust as well. Unfortunately society today is more likely to look down upon women who sleep around then men who do the same thing. The only time I find fault with such people are when they're deceiving a wife or husband or someone they have commitments to, then it becomes dishonorable. If you're free and uncommitted, go for it, that's my subjective view. Either way you can't be condemned for lusting if you don't do anything illegal.

As I thought before there's really no proof about Ben having his wang out so how is he to be punished for it? It's not always fair to act off of assumptions, concrete evidence would be useful.

Downbylaw
08-25-2010, 11:11 PM
First off, re-read my post, you are accusing me of a few things that are not true, namely that I said you think Ben is a rapist. I never said that.

The part about speculation is how you are specuating his guilt, not the things that happened. The tapes being destroyed or disappearing or whatever doesn't necessitate Ben's guilt anymore than it necessitates his innocence that is what I was saying, understand?

Please don't mention fictitious television shows, your argument is not a bad one by any means but bringing up nonsense like matlock or law and order it is hurting your credibility. I know police and have been around police when they're working and those shows are nothing by hyperboles with lots of dramatic liberties taken so as to "entertain" an audience.

I won't even take your morality derived from God seriously, like I said that's subjective because not everyone adheres to your religion. All subjective such as "anyone with good sense won't do this" surely you have read religious texts? Surely you've noticed that King's have a number of concubines?

You can condemn a man for chasing tail but there is nothing illegal or immoral in it objectively. Some people find profanity something to condemn, myself, I engage in it freely and vocally, would I chide you for not doing so? No because it's subjective. So just because you perceive sleeping with lots of women to be immoral doesn't mean anyone else has to or that it's something that should be frowned upon. Now, if you were to argue that the STeelers as an organization frown upon it, you would have an argument for the Rooney's wanting to discipline Ben, of course, they would have to be consistent and penalize all of their players for sleeping with lots of women.

I'll once again ignore your "think of the children" plea about my mother or unborn daughter. I'm fair game for women to lust as well. Unfortunately society today is more likely to look down upon women who sleep around then men who do the same thing. The only time I find fault with such people are when they're deceiving a wife or husband or someone they have commitments to, then it becomes dishonorable. If you're free and uncommitted, go for it, that's my subjective view. Either way you can't be condemned for lusting if you don't do anything illegal.

As I thought before there's really no proof about Ben having his wang out so how is he to be punished for it? It's not always fair to act off of assumptions, concrete evidence would be useful.

Show me where I said the 5 things I listed point to Bens guilt. I certainly did not. I said everything went in his favor. You wouldnt agree that all of those things are favorable to him? What if all five went against him, would that be good or bad for Ben Roethlisberger. Come on dude. I never speculated any guilt. If I did then please point it out.
ALL religions teach against lust. Sorry. Name one that encourages it. In regard to religious texts. Kings arent pious individuals living by the Law of God. To name a few from Biblical texts, Nimrod, Pharoah and King James. King James was a known homosexual who kissed men in the mouth but yet he has his own version of a Bible. Again, Kings are not the standard for morality, The Prophets are. And they sir, werent lustful. Profanity is also immoral for the tongue is a reflection of the heart. How would you respond if your boss yelled expletives at you all day. This type of dialogue can never be benificial. Not a condemnation but there are effective ways of doing things and ineffective ways.

I dont look down on women who sleep around, I look down on men and woman who do and you have textual proof of that. Society does and I can see you do too and thats exactly why you ignored my question. You know good and darn well you would NOT want your mother or daughter lusting after men, nor would I, at least Im consistent. I dont make arguments for the right to lust and then backpedal like Ike Taylor when asked a direct question in regard to specific people doing the lusting.

Ben has had opportunity to dispel any inaccuracies in the reports. He denied the rape but did he deny, that his pecker was out? Why didnt he? Please explain

mikegrimey
08-26-2010, 01:49 AM
Show me where I said the 5 things I listed point to Bens guilt. I certainly did not. I said everything went in his favor. You wouldnt agree that all of those things are favorable to him? What if all five went against him, would that be good or bad for Ben Roethlisberger. Come on dude. I never speculated any guilt. If I did then please point it out.
ALL religions teach against lust. Sorry. Name one that encourages it. In regard to religious texts. Kings arent pious individuals living by the Law of God. To name a few from Biblical texts, Nimrod, Pharoah and King James. King James was a known homosexual who kissed men in the mouth but yet he has his own version of a Bible. Again, Kings are not the standard for morality, The Prophets are. And they sir, werent lustful. Profanity is also immoral for the tongue is a reflection of the heart. How would you respond if your boss yelled expletives at you all day. This type of dialogue can never be benificial. Not a condemnation but there are effective ways of doing things and ineffective ways.

I dont look down on women who sleep around, I look down on men and woman who do and you have textual proof of that. Society does and I can see you do too and thats exactly why you ignored my question. You know good and darn well you would NOT want your mother or daughter lusting after men, nor would I, at least Im consistent. I dont make arguments for the right to lust and then backpedal like Ike Taylor when asked a direct question in regard to specific people doing the lusting.

Ben has had opportunity to dispel any inaccuracies in the reports. He denied the rape but did he deny, that his pecker was out? Why didnt he? Please explain

The fact that you insinuated Ben had the luck of a mob king pin is enough to paint him in a guilty light no?
Fair enough that people don't usually associate mobsters with upstanding law abiding citizens.

The fact aht you continue to derive your morality from religion prove my previous point. I don't know about every religion. I certainly know Christianity and Islam condemn lusting, but so what?
Can you punish a person for not upholding your religious laws? Absolutely not because not every has to or does adhere to your religious scope of the world. I won't even dabble into your blurb about the prophets, which, even if it were true, would be irrelevant to this argument.

Furthurmore, I think I made it pretty clearly that I have no problem with women who lust after men.
I ignored your questions about "my mother and daughter" because you're laughably trying to make the issue a person deal with me.
1. I don't even have a daughter so I can't associate how I would feel about what she does.
2. Nobody that I know likes to think of their mother having sex---but it doesn't bother me. If she wishes to sleep around so be it. It's hilarious that you think I was dodging your meaningless question, as if it had any bearing to what was being said. You're basing what should be an objective legal verdict on religion and other subjective emotional ideals, which is flawed to begin with.

I approve of men and women who lust, so long as they're not breaking a commitment they've made to another partner.
I'd approve of your mother, mine, and all of our unborn daughters working in a harem together and accepting cash for their favors.

Am I making myself clear? Lusting in and of itself violates no laws and you're just being morally subjective, hardly grounds to punish a person on.

I can't believe you pressed me about that worthless question again. Your fixation on "thinking of the children" is a cheap emotional cop-out and never enhances your argument.

Thus far in the conversation were at the point where there is no concrete evidence that Ben did anything illegal. He has been fortuitous indeed, as you mentioned, but in the end, whatever that implies, the bad behavior is still lacking. Except the behavior that you deem bad, IE drinking, carousing for women, which are not illegal but frowned upon by your religious ideals, which is okay, but no grounds to punish a man on, unless, as I previously noted, the Rooney's or NFL choose to make their rules, in which case they'd have a lot of players to suspend, take out of the hall of fame, and strip of awards for lusting after women, probably the most common think athletes do.

SacknificentStew56
08-26-2010, 02:05 AM
I would love to see Ben out for only 2 games but with Goodell as the commish, that's not going to happen. Regardless if he was charged or not, it's his second sexual assault incident that he's been involved in and this is directly from the horses (commish's) mouth during a interview with Dan Patrick:

"You do not have to be convicted or even charged of a crime to be able to demonstrate that you've violated a personal conduct policy".

What i'm getting from this is that if you violate the league's personal conduct policy, you will be dealt with in some form or fashion whether it's from a pay cut or whatever and if it's your second offense, your *bleep* is mine.

Downbylaw
08-26-2010, 02:47 AM
The fact that you insinuated Ben had the luck of a mob king pin is enough to paint him in a guilty light no?
Fair enough that people don't usually associate mobsters with upstanding law abiding citizens.

The fact aht you continue to derive your morality from religion prove my previous point. I don't know about every religion. I certainly know Christianity and Islam condemn lusting, but so what?
Can you punish a person for not upholding your religious laws? Absolutely not because not every has to or does adhere to your religious scope of the world. I won't even dabble into your blurb about the prophets, which, even if it were true, would be irrelevant to this argument.

Furthurmore, I think I made it pretty clearly that I have no problem with women who lust after men.
I ignored your questions about "my mother and daughter" because you're laughably trying to make the issue a person deal with me.
1. I don't even have a daughter so I can't associate how I would feel about what she does.
2. Nobody that I know likes to think of their mother having sex---but it doesn't bother me. If she wishes to sleep around so be it. It's hilarious that you think I was dodging your meaningless question, as if it had any bearing to what was being said. You're basing what should be an objective legal verdict on religion and other subjective emotional ideals, which is flawed to begin with.

I approve of men and women who lust, so long as they're not breaking a commitment they've made to another partner.
I'd approve of your mother, mine, and all of our unborn daughters working in a harem together and accepting cash for their favors.

Am I making myself clear? Lusting in and of itself violates no laws and you're just being morally subjective, hardly grounds to punish a person on.

I can't believe you pressed me about that worthless question again. Your fixation on "thinking of the children" is a cheap emotional cop-out and never enhances your argument.

Thus far in the conversation were at the point where there is no concrete evidence that Ben did anything illegal. He has been fortuitous indeed, as you mentioned, but in the end, whatever that implies, the bad behavior is still lacking. Except the behavior that you deem bad, IE drinking, carousing for women, which are not illegal but frowned upon by your religious ideals, which is okay, but no grounds to punish a man on, unless, as I previously noted, the Rooney's or NFL choose to make their rules, in which case they'd have a lot of players to suspend, take out of the hall of fame, and strip of awards for lusting after women, probably the most common think athletes do.

You dont agree that all FIVE of those incidents helped Ben? You dont agree that he was lucky and fortunate to have that in his favor? Quit trying to put words in my mouth, I am capable of speaking my own thoughts sir. I said IN MY EXPERIENCES IN CRIMINAL LAW, I havent seen anyone that fortunate unless they had mafia ties or were a drug kingpin. That is a statement of fact (See Gotti beating the Feds). If I felt he was guilty I WOULD SAY SO. I say everything else I feel, why would I exclude that?

Again, ALL religions preach against Lust. Of course its true about the Prophets why else would you bypass it? (Unable to refute it). No, I cant punish anyone nor have I said I would or could but we are all held accountable BY THE CREATOR for our actions. NUFF SAID.
Of course you wouldnt mind your mother to sleep around WINK WINK. What else are you supposed to say? You're going to say that to support your premise. Duh. Do I believe you? OF COURSE NOT LOL
Who cares if YOU approve of lust? God doesnt and that eraticates anything you or I think, desire or wish.Lusting violates the Laws of GOD GET IT?
Your anger jumps off the pages. Dont worry bro, we all know you wouldnt accept your own mother being a *****, we understand that you are just saying that to defend your flimsy position. WINK WINK

Just say you dont believe that Ben had his pecker out, unfortunately, I believe he did. You didnt answer my question. He denied the rape, so why didnt he deny that? DO Tell? What would she gain by saying "He had his pecker out" What would she gain by lying about that? Do tell.
Lastly, Ben is not suspended for doing anything illegal he is suspended for VIOLATING THE CONDUCT POLICY GET IT? Let me repost the words of Goodell after he suspended Pacman because they apply to Ben as well as any other player who has multiple offenses.

When Goodell suspended Pacman Jones, he wrote a letter to the troubled player that stated: "Your conduct has brought embarrassment and ridicule upon yourself, your club, and the NFL, and has damaged the reputation of players throughout the league. You have put in jeopardy an otherwise promising NFL career, and have risked both your own safety and the safety of others through your off-field actions. In each of these respects, you have engaged in conduct detrimental to the NFL and failed to live up to the standards expected of NFL players. Taken as a whole, this conduct warrants significant sanction."


Roethlisberger might not have the same track record as Jones, but being accused of sexual assault twice in less than a year is an embarrassment not only to the Steelers, but to the entire NFL. No matter what happened with the criminal investigation or the civil case, these accusations will follow Roethlisberger forever and be used to judge the character of other NFL players.


In the past, Goodell has made it clear that protecting the NFL's brand is his foremost concern. When Goodell barred Vick from training camp while dogfighting charges were pending against him, he wrote this to Vick: "While it is for the criminal justice system to determine your guilt or innocence, it is my responsibility as commissioner of the National Football League to determine whether your conduct, even if not criminal, nonetheless violated league policies, including the Personal Conduct Policy."

GET IT?

Downbylaw
08-26-2010, 02:48 AM
I would love to see Ben out for only 2 games but with Goodell as the commish, that's not going to happen. Regardless if he was charged or not, it's his second sexual assault incident that he's been involved in and this is directly from the horses (commish's) mouth during a interview with Dan Patrick:

"You do not have to be convicted or even charged of a crime to be able to demonstrate that you've violated a personal conduct policy".

What i'm getting from this is that if you violate the league's personal conduct policy, you will be dealt with in some form or fashion whether it's from a pay cut or whatever and if it's your second offense, your *bleep* is mine.

EXACTLY

mikegrimey
08-26-2010, 04:06 AM
You're argument have slowly and slowly disintegrated. Now you've resorted to the ever popular humorless attempt at humor (wink wink nudge nudge poke poke).

Clearly you have no legs to stand on.
Your blurb about prophets is not only naive but untruthful. Do you know Leo Tolstoy was a prophet to many? His ideas about non-violent resistance and not owning property and celibacy and such inspired many disciples and inspired the likes of Ghandi and MLK (who also lusted women) But would you guess that Tolstoy held himself to be above his own ideals? He was a ravenous womanizer and had numerous children with his wife over the years. Some prophet huh?

The point is you can't prove that these so called "prophets" were above lust anymore than you've proved anything else in this thread. Frequently teaches of ideas and dogmas exempt themselves from their own rules because they are so strict.

Furthurmore you're attempt to teach the word of God is ineffective and as I've said many times, irrelevant as ever.

The fact that you dismiss my proofs and support of my own ideas about women and men lusting shows that you have no tolerance to understand the views of others.

You had somewhat of an argument at the beginning but your argumentative skills just aren't up to snuff to keep up the facade. Any thinking person will look in here and see that I've totally handled you from front to back, so excuse me if I stop repeating myself and exposing your fallacies.

You're much better at making a point when you lay off your emotions (think of the children) and religious fanaticism. Other than that I would encourage you to think about what you say and read because you somewhat frequently misinterpret what's said to you. Sometimes you even dont' understand what you've said yourself.

One problem you have though is you seem to just talk the talk, just look at the way you resort to "lols" and winks once your ideas are denied. I'll walk it but you'll just try and tacitly laugh off proofs in order to hide your own inefficiency. You claim my "anger jumps off the page" but unlike you I don't resort to emotional appeals, I'm sticking to empirical knowledge to debunk your more radical ideas.

Even on something as subjective as lusting men and women you wont' concede that someone can have a different view than you, you retreat into the laughable coward's territory of "it is the will of God" as if you had access to the will of an almighty being, flatter yourself much? Ever considered that not everyone adheres to your dogma? That your narrow views on lust are outdated and self-torture, trying to chide young men and women for doing what is physically natural?

Anyway,

To sum up you're not the dumbest person I've ever meet on the internet but you've got a way to go before I deign to waste time sparring with you again, it's totally futile because you only argue to validate your own dogmatic view of the world and it's situations, not to learn or concede, even when you've clearly been bested. I wonder your age. A lot of youngyoung people don't like admitting when they're wrong or reacted poorly. Unfortunately the internet is full of older people with such problems too.
Good luck I gotta admit you suckered me into going back and forth with you for a while good job, just start thinking with your head more and less with your heart.

Downbylaw
08-26-2010, 04:38 AM
You're argument have slowly and slowly disintegrated. Now you've resorted to the ever popular humorless attempt at humor (wink wink nudge nudge poke poke).

Clearly you have no legs to stand on.
Your blurb about prophets is not only naive but untruthful. Do you know Leo Tolstoy was a prophet to many? His ideas about non-violent resistance and not owning property and celibacy and such inspired many disciples and inspired the likes of Ghandi and MLK (who also lusted women) But would you guess that Tolstoy held himself to be above his own ideals? He was a ravenous womanizer and had numerous children with his wife over the years. Some prophet huh?

The point is you can't prove that these so called "prophets" were above lust anymore than you've proved anything else in this thread. Frequently teaches of ideas and dogmas exempt themselves from their own rules because they are so strict.

Furthurmore you're attempt to teach the word of God is ineffective and as I've said many times, irrelevant as ever.

The fact that you dismiss my proofs and support of my own ideas about women and men lusting shows that you have no tolerance to understand the views of others.

You had somewhat of an argument at the beginning but your argumentative skills just aren't up to snuff to keep up the facade. Any thinking person will look in here and see that I've totally handled you from front to back, so excuse me if I stop repeating myself and exposing your fallacies.

You're much better at making a point when you lay off your emotions (think of the children) and religious fanaticism. Other than that I would encourage you to think about what you say and read because you somewhat frequently misinterpret what's said to you. Sometimes you even dont' understand what you've said yourself.

One problem you have though is you seem to just talk the talk, just look at the way you resort to "lols" and winks once your ideas are denied. I'll walk it but you'll just try and tacitly laugh off proofs in order to hide your own inefficiency. You claim my "anger jumps off the page" but unlike you I don't resort to emotional appeals, I'm sticking to empirical knowledge to debunk your more radical ideas.

Even on something as subjective as lusting men and women you wont' concede that someone can have a different view than you, you retreat into the laughable coward's territory of "it is the will of God" as if you had access to the will of an almighty being, flatter yourself much? Ever considered that not everyone adheres to your dogma? That your narrow views on lust are outdated and self-torture, trying to chide young men and women for doing what is physically natural?

Anyway,

To sum up you're not the dumbest person I've ever meet on the internet but you've got a way to go before I deign to waste time sparring with you again, it's totally futile because you only argue to validate your own dogmatic view of the world and it's situations, not to learn or concede, even when you've clearly been bested. I wonder your age. A lot of youngyoung people don't like admitting when they're wrong or reacted poorly. Unfortunately the internet is full of older people with such problems too.
Good luck I gotta admit you suckered me into going back and forth with you for a while good job, just start thinking with your head more and less with your heart.

Of couse I have legs to stand on. The one who has no legs to stand on is the one posting statements like "I will not address your such and such comment" thats an example of someone who has not legs to stand on WINK WINK.
Tolstoy may have been a Prophet you some but he certainly was not a Prophet of Gods. Therefore he was not Divinely guided, hence his shortcomings. That goes for MLK too, certainly not a Prophet, he wasnt even a good man (but thats for another debate). I never said that the Prophets were ABOVE lust, I merely said that it was AGAINST GODS LAW. Prophets were MEN, so they had animalistic desires just like you and I but the difference is they had more God consciousness than you or I, that and they were guided by the Divine. Sorry, not teaching you the Word of God as I have NOT quoted one scripture, however YOU DID, you cant take your foot out of your mouth now, hypocrite.

You listed that whole meaningless diatribe at the end when you could have summed it up by saying, YOU GOT ME. GET IT?

Downbylaw
08-26-2010, 06:44 AM
There is no worse calamity for knowledge and its people than when outsiders intrude. They are ignorant, but presume to know. They cause trouble yet think that they are helping.”

vasteeler
08-26-2010, 07:45 AM
this thread went to hell

SteelCityMom
08-26-2010, 02:03 PM
this thread went to hell

No doubt...biggest train wreck I've ever seen.

Lots and lots of personal attacks (none of which are necessary) and run on paragraphs. It makes my eyes bleed.

Downbylaw
08-26-2010, 02:19 PM
I'm guilty of the run ons. My bad

stb_steeler
08-26-2010, 02:31 PM
As usual, you make absolutely no sense whatsoever. Can you SERIOUSLY take some time to re-read your posts & edit them so that the rest of us can make sense of your gibberish.

Honestly, your infatuation of Big Ben is bordering on creepy.

:rofl:.....I was begining to wonder if it was a whole new language.

Downbylaw
08-26-2010, 02:41 PM
It is...
Aooda billahi min shoori an fusina

mikegrimey
08-26-2010, 10:56 PM
No doubt...biggest train wreck I've ever seen.

Lots and lots of personal attacks (none of which are necessary) and run on paragraphs. It makes my eyes bleed.


I'm not sure who was responsible for any of the alleged "personal attacks" as Downbylaw, although frequently misconstruing what was said, seldomly resorted to ad hominem except at the end. As for the "run on paragraphs" come now, anyone that's having a hard time finishing a 5 paragraph argument should probably lay off the sitcoms and youtube and twitter, attention span isn't a bad thing.

SteelCityMom
08-26-2010, 11:02 PM
I'm not sure who was responsible for any of the alleged "personal attacks" as Downbylaw, although frequently misconstruing what was said, seldomly resorted to ad hominem except at the end. As for the "run on paragraphs" come now, anyone that's having a hard time finishing a 5 paragraph argument should probably lay off the sitcoms and youtube and twitter, attention span isn't a bad thing.

Ummmm...for one, I didn't name names. I know who's done most of the personal attacks in here and it's not Downbylaw. If you haven't noticed it, you're the one not paying attention.

And my attention span is just fine. It just LITERALLY hurts my eyes to try and read a paragraph that is this long on the computer...

Just because Ben didn't get charged doesn't mean he was innocent.....Ah, yes it DOES MENSA! As for the closed door meeting, Ah if you remember, Ben has absolutely gone on record as saying BOTH Alligations were not true. But he also did say that maybe, after the first alligation in Nevada that maybe he did not use the best judgement in putting himself out there again...in public to be " ACCUSED " again. That, and ONLY that is what Ben ever admitted to. And THAT my friend is NOT a crime. Also, Goodell himself came out and disclosed everything that was said in his meeting with Ben, and omitted a letter to the steelers and the Public. And several of the things Goodell said were not only 100 % Inaccurate, but down right false. And Ben very recently even said that there is ALOT he wants to say and disclose about this, but said at that time he can't cause technically the civil case in Nevada is still open. But once again my little " Nancy Grace " wannabe,,,,IF you are never arrested..never charged..and never Indicted, or found guilty in a court of Law...then YES...you are Innocent!! And even though Goodell in the past has suspended the likes of BLACK players like Adam Jones-Chris Henry-Vick BEFORE their current intanglements were played out...ALL of those guys have had PAST charges that DID involve them being arrested, and charged, and convicted. And ALL of them have had past associations with Gang-Bangers, and nefarious Individuals that DID place the League in a Bad light. This is not " SPECULATIVE "..this IS a fact. But when has Ben ever been caught on Camera hangin with Gang Bangers ? When has Ben ever been around an establishment like a strip club past 1 AM in the morning where a violent Incident has taken place ? But, after all the Media tale about How Goodell was being overly Unfair to the likes of Vick, Henry and Pac-Man Jones, getting criticised by Jesse Jackson, and Al Sharpton's of the World. Once the ALLIGATIONS of Ben came out,,,Oh ALL of them said and demanded that " WHITE BOY " Ben had better get the same type of suspensions that said " Black " players got...even though unlike all those players...Ben never had a single Incident that was PROVEN..either caught on tape of were arrested and convicted...like Pac-Man had, or M.Vick, and Chris Henry!

That is just painful to read. It's not that hard to hit the enter button every now and then.

I have no trouble reading a 5 paragraph post...and don't watch much tv and don't have twitter. Thanks for your ASSumptions though. They mean a lot to me.

SteelCityMom
08-26-2010, 11:06 PM
I'm guilty of the run ons. My bad

No, you're fine....wasn't directing anything I said just at you.

There's just a lot of unnecessary "crap flinging" going on in this thread...it's a difficult thread to want to sit down and read the whole way through mostly because of that.

whatdoiknow
08-26-2010, 11:14 PM
Ummmm...for one, I didn't name names. I know who's done most of the personal attacks in here and it's not Downbylaw. If you haven't noticed it, you're the one not paying attention.

And my attention span is just fine. It just LITERALLY hurts my eyes to try and read a paragraph that is this long on the computer...



That is just painful to read. It's not that hard to hit the enter button every now and then.

I have no trouble reading a 5 paragraph post...and don't watch much tv and don't have twitter. Thanks for your ASSumptions though. They mean a lot to me.





Sorry Mom. I guess I just went off on a Rant!:blah: I will try to shorten it next time.

mikegrimey
08-27-2010, 01:26 AM
Ummmm...for one, I didn't name names. I know who's done most of the personal attacks in here and it's not Downbylaw. If you haven't noticed it, you're the one not paying attention.

And my attention span is just fine. It just LITERALLY hurts my eyes to try and read a paragraph that is this long on the computer...



That is just painful to read. It's not that hard to hit the enter button every now and then.

I have no trouble reading a 5 paragraph post...and don't watch much tv and don't have twitter. Thanks for your ASSumptions though. They mean a lot to me.

First off i don't quote and respond to people without paying attention to what was said, seldomly I'll take something out of context but I accept correction when I do and apologize.

As for my "assumptions" your own words were what lead to my comments about attention span, not any assumption on my part.

"Lots and lots of personal attacks (none of which are necessary) and run on paragraphs. It makes my eyes bleed. "

This lead me to believe that your complaint was against reading long paragraphs hence the comments about attention span.

You're example was not hard to read because of its length but because of the poor writing, which, if that's what you meant, I apologize for not understanding you correctly.

If I haven't been paying attention to the "crap flinging" in this thread that's fine by me. I was involved in a little skirmish with downbylaw and paid little attention to vitriol posted by the likes of whatdoiknow. As I said, I don't know who's been responsible for the personal attacks but for they're not dominating the thread by any means. It's very easy to ignore trolling and such.

SteelCityMom
08-27-2010, 01:40 AM
First off i don't quote and respond to people without paying attention to what was said, seldomly I'll take something out of context but I accept correction when I do and apologize.

As for my "assumptions" your own words were what lead to my comments about attention span, not any assumption on my part.

"Lots and lots of personal attacks (none of which are necessary) and run on paragraphs. It makes my eyes bleed. "

This lead me to believe that your complaint was against reading long paragraphs hence the comments about attention span.

You're example was not hard to read because of its length but because of the poor writing, which, if that's what you meant, I apologize for not understanding you correctly.

If I haven't been paying attention to the "crap flinging" in this thread that's fine by me. I was involved in a little skirmish with downbylaw and paid little attention to vitriol posted by the likes of whatdoiknow. As I said, I don't know who's been responsible for the personal attacks but for they're not dominating the thread by any means. It's very easy to ignore trolling and such.


That's fine...how ever you want to look at it. Next time I'll just keep it short and sweet like VASTEELER did. Straightforward and to the point.

This thread has gone to hell.

Downbylaw
08-27-2010, 02:48 AM
Hi mom. Whenever I get out of line, please feel free to remark and I will snap back to form. Nothing like advice from good ole Mom!