PDA

View Full Version : Collective Bargaining Crash Looms


Atlanta Dan
02-19-2006, 02:20 PM
FYI is a link to a Washington Post article on the looming crash in the collective bargaining negotiations.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/02/18/AR2006021801300_pf.html

I am posting this on the Steelers board rather than the NFL board because if the salary cap goes away so does the likelihood of the Steelers ability to compete every year for a championship. Based on this link to franchise valuations, we may be seeing a lot of Redskins and Cowboys championship games in the future without a salary cap. Of course, the valuations of all teams may crash if the NFL goes the way of major league baseball in terms of competitiveness. Wouldn't be the first time a golden goose was killed.

http://www.forbes.com/business/2005/09/01/sports-football-gambling-cz_05nfland.html

Livinginthe past
02-19-2006, 04:05 PM
I am hugely worried about the implications of a cap-less future in the NFL - even one year could throw the whole system.

Its a shame because the concept works well - it stops the builing of dominating Dynasties through the roster - its coaching that holds the competitive advantage for teams which is the way it should be.

I do wonder if cash happy teams such as the Redskins would win a little more without a salary cap - their attempts to win this way have not been too succesful during the cap era.

The Golden Goose metaphor is an excellent one - the way the NFL is currently run is a winner with the most important people - the consumer, the fan...in short, you and I.

To see it killed would be a tragedy - all for the half baked attempt from some owners to line their own pockets in the short term.


NM

83-Steelers-43
02-19-2006, 04:49 PM
I am hugely worried about the implications of a cap-less future in the NFL - even one year could throw the whole system.

Its a shame because the concept works well - it stops the builing of dominating Dynasties through the roster - its coaching that holds the competitive advantage for teams which is the way it should be.

I do wonder if cash happy teams such as the Redskins would win a little more without a salary cap - their attempts to win this way have not been too succesful during the cap era.

The Golden Goose metaphor is an excellent one - the way the NFL is currently run is a winner with the most important people - the consumer, the fan...in short, you and I.

To see it killed would be a tragedy - all for the half baked attempt from some owners to line their own pockets in the short term.


NM

I agree 100%

Petesburgh66
02-19-2006, 05:40 PM
The popularity that NFL enjoys would go south if no cap system is in place. Contracts would have to be guaranteed in a non cap system.

Suitanim
02-19-2006, 07:16 PM
This is probably going to be handled before the draft this year...nobody wants to let the Jerry Jones' and Dan Snyder's ruin the NFL...

mdhus
02-19-2006, 08:08 PM
I agree 100%

same here......without the cap some of the poorer teams would be unable to compete(AKA KC royals in baseball).

siko

Hawk Believer
02-19-2006, 08:21 PM
Does the Rooney family have enough cash lying around to be a player in a capless NFL?

Mr. Clean
02-19-2006, 08:39 PM
If Snyder and Jones want a league without a cap, the let them leave the NFL and start their own league. Hell with 'em.

Atlanta Dan
02-19-2006, 08:55 PM
Does the Rooney family have enough cash lying around to be a player in a capless NFL?

Check out the link to valuations in my original post in terms of which franchises are the best positioned financially. The market value of the franchise is the standard benchmark of relative power, but the franchises with higher operating income and lower debt/value ratios would be more likely to have access to cash for players. The Steelers are in good shape on the level of debt they are carrying and middle of the pack on operating income.
It is not a Pirates type situation, but they are not on the top shelf of franchises and certainly not among the 9 teams that allegedly are threatening to sue the league if any deal forces too much revenue to be shared by the wealthier teams.

Of course, if an owner simply wants to buy a championship and wants to use his non-franchise assets to do so, Paul Allen leaves the other owners in the dust in terms of personal net worth. For the Rooneys, the Steelers are their source of wealth and I understand they have relatively minimal outside sources of income.

Maybe the Steelers would consider selling a chunk of the franchise to Mt. Lebanon's Mark Cuban if they could not otherwise stay in the game financially.

SteelCityMan786
02-19-2006, 09:10 PM
GET A DEAL DONE! I can't imagine a year without the NFL!

Milkman
02-19-2006, 09:21 PM
No salary cap would be a very bad thing...period.

BlitzburghRockCity
02-19-2006, 09:48 PM
There's still hope yet for everyone to come to their senses..but it sure doesnt look good at this point.. the smaller market teams no matter how popular are in for a world of trouble if this thing doesnt get worked out.

Scares me to death !

Hawk Believer
02-19-2006, 11:14 PM
Of course, if an owner simply wants to buy a championship and wants to use his non-franchise assets to do so, Paul Allen leaves the other owners in the dust in terms of personal net worth. For the Rooneys, the Steelers are their source of wealth and I understand they have relatively minimal outside sources of income.

Even though I support a team whose owner has an obscene amount of money to buy a championship with, I wouldn't want to see it happen that way.

I had heard on the radio that the current "capless" proposal would enforce caps on the top 8 teams in the league. Not sure how that would work out though.

FanecaFan66
02-19-2006, 11:23 PM
If this happens...

we all know what's going to happen. The NFL will turn into major league baseball. And if you're a Pirates fan like me you know what that means.

Atlanta Dan
02-20-2006, 08:11 AM
After the gloomy article from the Washington Post I posted, Pete Prisco on CBS Sportsline writes a more optimistic article on CBA negotiations:

There is talk making its way through the league that the NFL and the players association are close to agreeing on a new collective bargaining agreement. There has been steady progress the past week, giving hope to both sides. The NFL has called a special owners meeting for next week in Dallas. All the doom and gloom of the past year regarding a potential agreement has suddenly been replaced by optimism.

"There has been some good talks this week," said a league source. One issue that seemed to be clouding the talks was the improved revenue sharing between high- and low-revenue teams. But the word is the owners will wait until after a getting an agreement with the NFLPA before worrying about that problem.

The players want a higher percentage of the total revenue, which is believed to be one point that the two sides are close to agreeing on. Don't be shocked to see a new agreement in place in the next week. If that happens, the free-agency period should begin March 3 as planned. With no agreement, the opening of the free-agency period could get pushed back to April.

Hard to reconcile Prisco's optimism with the letter the union's attorney sent to the league office last week that is described in the Post article.

The Prisco article also states that the Redskins are $20 million over the cap and will need to cut starters without a new CBA that will provide some cap relief. That may help move Danny Snyder to support a new CBA (although if Jerry Jones knows no CBA will clobber the Redskins it gives Jones even more incentive to block a new CBA).

http://www.sportsline.com/nfl/story/9244108

Ambridge
02-20-2006, 09:28 AM
No salary cap would spell the Ruination of the NFL.

Livinginthe past
02-20-2006, 10:04 AM
After the gloomy article from the Washington Post I posted, Pete Prisco on CBS Sportsline writes a more optimistic article on CBA negotiations:

There is talk making its way through the league that the NFL and the players association are close to agreeing on a new collective bargaining agreement. There has been steady progress the past week, giving hope to both sides. The NFL has called a special owners meeting for next week in Dallas. All the doom and gloom of the past year regarding a potential agreement has suddenly been replaced by optimism.

"There has been some good talks this week," said a league source. One issue that seemed to be clouding the talks was the improved revenue sharing between high- and low-revenue teams. But the word is the owners will wait until after a getting an agreement with the NFLPA before worrying about that problem.

The players want a higher percentage of the total revenue, which is believed to be one point that the two sides are close to agreeing on. Don't be shocked to see a new agreement in place in the next week. If that happens, the free-agency period should begin March 3 as planned. With no agreement, the opening of the free-agency period could get pushed back to April.

Hard to reconcile Prisco's optimism with the letter the union's attorney sent to the league office last week that is described in the Post article.

The Prisco article also states that the Redskins are $20 million over the cap and will need to cut starters without a new CBA that will provide some cap relief. That may help move Danny Snyder to support a new CBA (although if Jerry Jones knows no CBA will clobber the Redskins it gives Jones even more incentive to block a new CBA).

http://www.sportsline.com/nfl/story/9244108

Wow who would have thought that schmuck Pete Prickso would have been the bearer of good news - even more shocking is that he appears to be actually reporting on something rather than just offering crowd baiting opinions.

It also looks like the Redskins have taken the 'ostrich' position on the cap and its implications on future years - I wonder how far they can keep pushing back these numbers before they have to pay up.

Looks like there will be some meaty picking from that roster whether or not there is a new CBA.

Personally, I hope they set down another 7-10 year CBA - gives teams a chance to plan for the future without this threat appearing on the horizon again.

Lets all hope we are hearing good news from Tagliabue in the next couple of weeks - rather than some nameless source quoted by Prickso.

NM

Suitanim
02-20-2006, 10:16 AM
I've heard rumors buzzing around that free agency may be delayed from March 3rd until April 1st in order to get a deal done...it will push everybody back a bit, and make the draft more hectic than it already is, but would be well worth it in the long run...

Petesburgh66
02-21-2006, 12:25 AM
...and if you're an Oakland A's fan like me, you know it's not the end of the world.

You always hear people on here saying that getting rid of the salary cap will be a huge disaster and the Steelers won't be competitive ever again. That's a bunch of horsecrap. The Steelers will never be like the Royals or the Pirates because they draft well, hire good coaches and make smart moves with their players. The perennially bad teams in football, baseball and basketball are all that way because they draft first-round busts, fire the coach every couple years, make stupid trades and keep guys on the bench who turn out to be superstars when they sign with other teams. We've got none of that here, and the sky is not falling.

They drafted well, they had one of the better coaches in the game, they made trades that got descent prospects back. Hmmm, sounds like the Montreal Expos before Bud light moved the team. In the end, it caught up to them as they could not afford to keep their top players heading into their primes. Every year, it was like a new re-building project with them. Sorry, I don't want the Steelers to lose players in their prime like Ben to Jerry Jones because the a-hole has money to burn. You like the A's. Did you like it when Hudson and Mulder got moved all of sudden as Oakland couldn't afford them once they were a year away from entering free agency? The A's use money ball logic and they haven't won a world series as a result. Just being competitive to get in the playoffs doesn't cut it for me. I want my teams that I root for to have a shot at winning it all. A cap system prevents the have and have nots system that exists in MLB. The Lions and Cardinals you mention, is a direct result of incompetent management. It really has nothing to do with the cap.

And if a cap is that bad, why did the NHL lose one full season for? Just for the sake of it?

TexaSteeler
02-21-2006, 10:26 AM
They drafted well, they had one of the better coaches in the game, they made trades that got descent prospects back. Hmmm, sounds like the Montreal Expos before Bud light moved the team. In the end, it caught up to them as they could not afford to keep their top players heading into their primes. Every year, it was like a new re-building project with them. Sorry, I don't want the Steelers to lose players in their prime like Ben to Jerry Jones because the a-hole has money to burn. You like the A's. Did you like it when Hudson and Mulder got moved all of sudden as Oakland couldn't afford them once they were a year away from entering free agency? The A's use money ball logic and they haven't won a world series as a result. Just being competitive to get in the playoffs doesn't cut it for me. I want my teams that I root for to have a shot at winning it all. A cap system prevents the have and have nots system that exists in MLB. The Lions and Cardinals you mention, is a direct result of incompetent management. It really has nothing to do with the cap.

And if a cap is that bad, why did the NHL lose one full season for? Just for the sake of it?

I used to worry about free agency, but the Steelers have proven that it doesn't matter to them. They know what they're doing. Here's a list off the top of my head of great players in their prime that we lost that I mistakenly mourned:

Eric Green
Yancy Thigpen
Barry Foster
Bam Morris
Neil O'Donnell
Rod Woodson
Greg Lloyd
Kevin Green
Earl Holmes
Charles Johnson
Ernie Mills
Chad Brown
Kendrell Bell
Plaxico Burress
Bubby Brister (just kiddding)

The Steelers always find new talent and new Pro Bowlers. The real key is the QB. We haven't had one since Bradshaw, now we do.

Suitanim
02-21-2006, 11:30 AM
And that's exactly why we NEED a salary cap...We will have difficulty paying for Ben when his contract comes up as it is...

Atlanta Dan
02-21-2006, 01:19 PM
FYI is a link to another informative Washington Post article on how the absence of a new collective bargaining agreement is complicating contract renegotiations and free agency signings. Because 2006 currently is the final season in which a salary cap will apply: signing bonuses can not be prorated for more than four years; there is no benefit in delaying a player's release until after June 1 to defer part of the salary cap hit to the next season; "likely to be earned" and "not likely to be earned" incentives (you will need to read the article to figure out what that means - I cannot explain it) will all count in the year earned against the cap; and restrictions on salary % increases in future years of a contract make reworking existing contracts more difficult.

A later section of the article states that Gene Upshaw says the players will cease participating in the new stadium loan program, which will cause heartburn to the owners of the Colts, Cowboys, Gianst, and Jets.

Upshaw also supposedly is telling player agents in a meeting on Wednesday that 2007 will not have a salary cap and to avoid negotiating new contracts that keep the player tied to the team for more than the 2006 season.

Finally, the article reports:

Pittsburgh Steelers owner Dan Rooney told The Washington Post on Monday that six to nine owners are threatening to take legal action if the entire ownership body approves a revenue-sharing plan they don't like.

But if nine teams really are united on the issue, they won't have to take legal action. A revenue-sharing plan would have to be approved by at least 24 of the 32 clubs, so a nine-team coalition could block approval.

If it's only six to eight teams, though, they wouldn't have enough votes to stop the deal.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/linkset/2005/04/22/LI2005042201154.html

This could be a catastrophe.

Sharkissle29
02-21-2006, 04:17 PM
i would HATE to see the NFL turn into the MLB. in baseball, if you have money you win...if you dont, you dont (ex. pittsburgh pirates). this is why i hate baseball, and i will hate the NFL if they have no cap. PLEASE GET SOMETHING DONE!!!!!!

Petesburgh66
02-21-2006, 06:20 PM
I know -- something must have happened in the past couple months to convince you that "underdog" playoff teams don't have a shot at winning the Super Bowl! ... That MUST be it, huh?

Underdog teams have a shot at winning in a level playing field. The teams the Steelers beat are all playing by the same rules. No one team was loaded with hired guns or free agents like what the NY Yankees try and do.

And how many underdog, small market teams in Baseball actually win the World Series every year? Not many. This is what I fear would happen without a cap in the NFL. The teams that spend will be there in the end, regardless if the win the big one or not. And who is to say that we will beat the Bengals, Ravens and Browns each year? You can't.

Suitanim
02-23-2006, 09:08 AM
Baseball and football are apples and oranges. The bottom line, it took us 20 years to finally find a QB to capable of taking us to the promise land, and, if we lose Ben due to some uncapped team outspending us, it may be another 20 years before we find his like again...and, even if that guy flourishes, he'll just be sucked up by a team that outspends us again.

I agree SOMEWHAT about keeping teams profitable, but I also think the cap protects the integrity of the game. Left to their devices, the Jerry Jones' and Daniel Snyders will have NFL jerseys looking like Nascar drivers fire suits before too long...

TexaSteeler
02-23-2006, 11:25 AM
Baseball and football are apples and oranges. The bottom line, it took us 20 years to finally find a QB to capable of taking us to the promise land, and, if we lose Ben due to some uncapped team outspending us, it may be another 20 years before we find his like again...and, even if that guy flourishes, he'll just be sucked up by a team that outspends us again.

I agree SOMEWHAT about keeping teams profitable, but I also think the cap protects the integrity of the game. Left to their devices, the Jerry Jones' and Daniel Snyders will have NFL jerseys looking like Nascar drivers fire suits before too long...

But given the length of that search, don't you think the Rooney's would put up some fat chedda to keep him around in an uncapped market? I would think even the Rooney's would realize that you can replace just about everyone but a championship QB.

Suitanim
02-23-2006, 11:43 AM
Nope, I don't. I'm fairly certain that we will have a real struggle on our hands when his contract comes due WITH the cap in place.

TexaSteeler
02-23-2006, 11:51 AM
Well it's great that we can develop young talent for other teams.

Rotorhead
02-24-2006, 06:14 AM
I honestly dont think Ben will "demand" a huge salary, I am sure his agent will want to get him alot, but when it comes down to it, I think Ben will take less then others are willing to offer to stay with this team. He just strikes me as a team player like that. I am sure he will get a nice contract though.

tony hipchest
02-24-2006, 08:26 AM
I honestly dont think Ben will "demand" a huge salary, I am sure his agent will want to get him alot, but when it comes down to it, I think Ben will take less then others are willing to offer to stay with this team. He just strikes me as a team player like that. I am sure he will get a nice contract though.

if you look at the type of money s. mcnair, c. pennington, d. cullpepper, farve, etc were due to make this year, it seems pretty likely if ben continues on his pace of winning he is gonna be making p. manning and t. brady money plus some. he ll make a ton in endorsements which make him less starved for a megadeal from another team. i wonder if he will want to start throwing for 4000 yds/ season as a stipulation of staying? i think as he learns and matures and the steelers gradually put pieces in place this is what theyre gonna evolve into anyways. not to say they will give up a power running game or smashmouth philosophy, and revert to the tommy gun era, but ben will be expected to earn his next huge contract through the air, which will be easy for him.

Atlanta Dan
02-24-2006, 12:04 PM
Ben's agent Leigh Steinberg has described the Steelers as a "gateway" franchise in terms of Ben's endorsement potential being enhanced by playing for a team with a nationwide following with a solid "blue collar" image that matches Ben's public image (as opposed to his "Drink Like A Champion" photo images :)

If Ben's endorsement deals continue to grow, companies paying the endorsement $ might not regard Ben to be quite as marketable if he hypothetically would be taking snaps for a team such as the Cardinals or Titans as opposed to the Steelers and if he was tarnished by being perceived as disloyal to the team that made him famous.

This may be wishful thinking, but if loyalty probably will not count for much at contract renegotiation time the financial consequences of leaving certainly will. Given that most NFL players have minimal endorsement deals, it might be one explanation for why big time QBs who do get endorsements (Brady/Manning/McNabb/Favre) stay with the team that made them.

Rotorhead
02-24-2006, 11:36 PM
Well it looks as though there will be no extension, stupid greedy ass owners. It is not even the case of the players being greedy and wanting everything, the big hangups are the owners revenue sharing crap.

DIESELMAN
02-26-2006, 02:50 AM
Breaking News: Agreement on CBA on the Way?

By Scout.com

Date: Feb 25, 2006

Breaking news about the CBA and the 2006 salary cap!


An NFL source has told Scout.com that the 2006 salary cap will be announced on Monday, February 27. 2006's cap, according to this source, will be $95 million. This is on the high end of what was expected - most estimates were anywhere from $92 to $95 million.

Atlanta Falcons GM Rich McKay, who co-chairs the Competition Committee and has long been a major player in league matters, talked to the media on Saturday about the possible extension to the Collective Bargaining Agreement that would greatly affect how cap money is spent.

McKay said that the teams remain hopeful that there will be an extension, despite Player?s Association head Gene Upshaw's recent comments that agents should negotiate as if there will be no extension. McKay also said that without a new deal, the March 3 free agency deadline will not be pushed back.

McKay said that it would be "extremely difficult" to operate without an extension.

Without a cap, McKay said that the "tricks of the trade" will all drop into this year's cap, affecting cap room. Contracts would only be able to be four years long and he thinks trades will be less likely because of accelerated bonuses. He also expects free agency would be slower.

But in late-breaking news on this matter, Seahawks.NET has been informed by our Scout.com source at the Combine that members of one NFL organization are telling their staff that there is a very strong chance that the CBA will be extended by the deadline. Significant recent progress has been made, according to our source.

BlitzburghRockCity
02-26-2006, 10:45 AM
Yeah I got this in my msn alerts this morning !! Oh please please people, get this damn thing ratified so we can continue to be the best run sports business in the world ! So we can continue to show the MLB, NBA, and NHL how the big boys do it and do it right the first time. !

Atlanta Dan
02-27-2006, 04:57 PM
Washington Post has another article up this afternoon on the CBA negotiations:


By Mark Maske
Washington Post Staff Writer
Monday, February 27, 2006; 11:48 AM

Either they know something that's not in full public view, or they're engaging in wishful thinking.

Those are the possible explanations for the fact that many front-office executives from NFL teams are convinced that Commissioner Paul Tagliabue and Players Association chief Gene Upshaw will complete a labor deal by midweek.

Perhaps Tagliabue has sent back-channel signals to the clubs that the negotiations are going better than he and Upshaw have indicated publicly. The owners have scheduled a meeting for next Monday and Tuesday in Dallas, and executives from some teams believe that Tagliabue and Upshaw will reach an agreement by Wednesday and postpone the opening of free agency from Friday until March 10 to give Tagliabue time to get the owners to approve the labor deal and bring their contentious revenue-sharing debate to a close.

Or perhaps the alternative is just so bleak for the league and its teams that the executives have convinced themselves that's going to happen.

The answer will be clear soon enough. Upshaw and Tagliabue likely will speak today to begin their last-ditch negotiating effort.

With regard to the salary cap:

Upshaw told the agents last week that the figure likely will be around $96 million. The clubs earlier had been told the number probably would fall between $92 million and $95 million. Last season's salary cap was $85.5 million per club.

The figure likely will jump over $100 million if there's an extension of the labor deal. . . .

$5 million more under the cap and a new CBA might help keep at least one Steeler FA (Taylor?) from leaving.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/linkset/2005/04/22/LI2005042201154.html

BlitzburghRockCity
02-28-2006, 08:44 PM
If we end up with a No salary cap year or era, us and the rest of the small market teams no matter how good we are currently are in for some serious trouble in a big way when it comes to signing players. Im still holding out hope for a witching hour type of resolution, at the last minute we get a buzz on ESPN radio saying the deal is completed all is well.

Please Please NFL gods, smile on us !!

Sharkissle29
02-28-2006, 09:16 PM
heard some bad news on ESPN.....a deal will likely not be done