PDA

View Full Version : Gauge of Talent: Pouncey one of the best?


ETL
08-26-2010, 10:25 PM
I got to admit that right now, I would not trade Pouncey for any other center in the league: not Mangold, not Kreutz, not Alex Mack or Jason Brown.

It got me thinking - are there any other Steelers I would not trade for (same position). Here is what I came up with.

QB: Roethlisberger (Sorry, but I would give him up for Manning)
RB: Mendenhall (would trade for Adrian Peterson)
TE: Miller (would trade for Jermichael Finley)
WR: Ward / Wallace (would trade for Andre Johnson and Larry Fitzgerald)
OT: Starks (would trade for Joe Thomas)
G: Our guards (would trade for Grande Mocha Frappucino at Starbucks)

NG: Casey Hampton (would not trade!)
DE: Smith or Ziggy Hood (would trade for Jared Allen or Julius Peppers or Ngati)
OLB: Harrison or Woodley (would not trade - even for Ware)
ILB: Timmons or Farrior (would trade for Patrick Willis)
CB: Ike Taylor (would trade for Revis or Asomugha)
FS: Clark (would trade for Ed Reed? - on fence on this b/c Reed is so much better at pass coverage but not as good on run)
SS: Polamalu (would not trade!)

So there are 5 current steelers that I would not trade for any other player in that same position: Polamalu, James Harrison, Lamarr Woodley, Casey Hampton and Pouncey! - our rookie!. By this reasoning, he is already one of the elite talents in the league.

MasterOfPuppets
08-26-2010, 10:30 PM
i'd trade woodley or harrison in a heart beat for demarcus ware. :noidea:

and to say you would not trade a rookie who may or may not be a pro bowl type of player ,for a young , proven pro bowler like mangold is kinda silly. i'll take the bird in hand.

ETL
08-26-2010, 10:44 PM
i'd trade woodley or harrison in a heart beat for demarcus ware. :noidea:

and to say you would not trade a rookie who may or may not be a pro bowl type of player ,for a young , proven pro bowler like mangold is kinda silly. i'll take the bird in hand.

Pouncey may be one of the best centers ever. I wouldn't trade that potential for even a proven pro bowler. its a gamble but in my view - its a good gamble.

According to your logic, in 2003 - you would have traded Polamalu for Brian Dawkins (rookie for proven pro bowler) and you would have gotten the short end of the stick

steeltheone
08-26-2010, 10:45 PM
i'd trade woodley or harrison in a heart beat for demarcus ware. :noidea:

and to say you would not trade a rookie who may or may not be a pro bowl type of player ,for a young , proven pro bowler like mangold is kinda silly. i'll take the bird in hand.

I agree...this is sort of silly..

Fire Arians
08-26-2010, 10:45 PM
i wouldn't trade ward for anybody. ward IS the steelers and it wouldn't be right to see him in another uniform. if that ever happens, i will be sad and have to drink a case of beer in 1 sitting

Riddle_Of_Steel
08-26-2010, 11:14 PM
So there are 5 current steelers that I would not trade for any other player in that same position: Polamalu, James Harrison, Lamarr Woodley, Casey Hampton and Pouncey! - our rookie!. By this reasoning, he is already one of the elite talents in the league.

Umm....call me crazy, but I don't see any "reasoning", just an expression of a personal opinion.

I am EXCITED about Pouncey as well, but I am not ready to call him elite or Probowl caliber without him ever having played a single snap in the NFL yet, nor would I choose him on a wish list over proven guys who ARE Probowl caliber.

If this was meant as a joke, I apologize for being stupid and not seeing it...

Riddle_Of_Steel
08-26-2010, 11:16 PM
i wouldn't trade ward for anybody. ward IS the steelers and it wouldn't be right to see him in another uniform. if that ever happens, i will be sad and have to drink a case of beer in 1 sitting

Fxxkin' A....I agree 100%.

Another player who I would not have traded: JOEY PORTER. Some small part of me dies everytime I have to see him in any uniform besides a black and gold one....he had his best season after leaving us too. What a shame....

MasterOfPuppets
08-26-2010, 11:28 PM
Pouncey may be one of the best centers ever. I wouldn't trade that potential for even a proven pro bowler. its a gamble but in my view - its a good gamble.

According to your logic, in 2003 - you would have traded Polamalu for Brian Dawkins (rookie for proven pro bowler) and you would have gotten the short end of the stick
limas sweed was loaded with potential too ... i guess you wouldn't have traded him for fitzgerald ?

BlockMonsta
08-27-2010, 01:56 AM
Trade Miller for a rookie te?

Goat27
08-27-2010, 01:59 AM
So, if brown, and sanders do very well, where does that leave Sweed, on the outside looking in...

Downbylaw
08-27-2010, 02:40 AM
Pouncey has only played 2 pre season games. I'm not ready to annoint him. He beat out Hartwig, who is not any good. I dont trade Heath for any TE. Maybe if Gonzo was younger. Trade Aaron Smith for Jared or Peppers? NO WAY. Those guys are 4-3 DE's. They would not be stout enough in a 3-4 scheme. In a 4-3 they are great but in a 3-4 the OLB's are the stars, not the ends. In a 3-4 the ends and NT pave the way for the LBs

DanRooney
08-27-2010, 04:25 AM
Steelers fans are spoiled.

I would not trade Roethlisberger for any quarterback in the league. He is a proven winner and is arguably the clutchest player in the league. Peyton is a choke when it matters. Period. He turns into an average to below average QB in the playoffs whereas Ben heightens his game (SB XL aside). You think Manning would play just as good behind Justin Hartwig and the 4 other losers that are protecting our franchise instead of his all-pro line? How about not playing in a dome? Don't you find it weird that Ben has the same passer rating as Manning through his career when he's in a dome? Hmm...

Hgaloti Ngata anyday over Casey Hampton btw.

pete74
08-27-2010, 04:30 AM
i would trade ben for Aaron Rodgers in a second. i love ben and wouldnt trade him for anyother QB except for Rodgers who i belive will be the next Marino

zulater
08-27-2010, 05:20 AM
Where can I buy a pair of these black and gold glasses anyway?:chuckle:

DanRooney
08-27-2010, 06:04 AM
i would trade ben for Aaron Rodgers in a second. i love ben and wouldnt trade him for anyother QB except for Rodgers who i belive will be the next Marino

I love Aaron Rodgers. It would be a close call between the two imo. Ben did outperform him when they went head to head with similar talent on each team.

steeltheone
08-27-2010, 06:44 AM
So, if brown, and sanders do very well, where does that leave Sweed, on the outside looking in...

Not at all. Wards close to retirement. Battle is a throw in and El is older so Sweed will be given every chance to succeed here !

pete74
08-27-2010, 07:45 AM
Not at all. Wards close to retirement. Battle is a throw in and El is older so Sweed will be given every chance to succeed here !

I seriously doubt Sweed will be given another chance. I think he will be cut. I really wanted to see him do well here but I don't see that hapening anymore.

MasterOfPuppets
08-27-2010, 11:43 AM
I seriously doubt Sweed will be given another chance. I think he will be cut. I really wanted to see him do well here but I don't see that hapening anymore.

what would be the point in cutting him ? he isn't counting against the roster and they have to pay him his full salary if they cut him or not. unless he's due a roster bonus next year, it wouldn't make any sense to not give him one last shot to compete.

ETL
08-27-2010, 12:45 PM
i wouldn't trade ward for anybody. ward IS the steelers and it wouldn't be right to see him in another uniform. if that ever happens, i will be sad and have to drink a case of beer in 1 sitting

There is a huge part of me that agrees with you. The intangibles that ward brings is immeasurable. However based on pure receiving talent, ward can be "tradeable"

ETL
08-27-2010, 12:51 PM
Umm....call me crazy, but I don't see any "reasoning", just an expression of a personal opinion.

I am EXCITED about Pouncey as well, but I am not ready to call him elite or Probowl caliber without him ever having played a single snap in the NFL yet, nor would I choose him on a wish list over proven guys who ARE Probowl caliber.

If this was meant as a joke, I apologize for being stupid and not seeing it...

You're right. It is my personal opinion that I would not trade pouncey over any other centers but with that opinion, I guess I am saying that I reasoning that he is one of the league's top talent

By the way, which center would you trade pouncey for? Mangold? I wouldn't.

ETL
08-27-2010, 12:55 PM
]

Pouncey has only played 2 pre season games. I'm not ready to annoint him. He beat out Hartwig, who is not any good. I dont trade Heath for any TE. Maybe if Gonzo was younger. Trade Aaron Smith for Jared or Peppers? NO WAY. Those guys are 4-3 DE's. They would not be stout enough in a 3-4 scheme. In a 4-3 they are great but in a 3-4 the OLB's are the stars, not the ends. In a 3-4 the ends and NT pave the way for the LBs

Who would you trade Pouncey for?
Do you know about Jermichael Finley? This guy is sick.
You,re right about DE's - hard to compare.

ETL
08-27-2010, 12:58 PM
i would trade ben for Aaron Rodgers in a second. i love ben and wouldnt trade him for anyother QB except for Rodgers who i belive will be the next Marino

I agree with you about Rogers. He's clean off the field too. In this league that is important as we learned. It may cost us 4 games.

PhantomJB93
08-27-2010, 01:47 PM
I would easily trade Ben for Aaron Rodgers...Manning Brees and Brady are all better as well but I wouldnt trade for them simply because of age. I think Matthew Stafford will be better as well a year or two down the road from now.

I would trade Rashard for a number of backs: AP, Turner, Gore, Sjax...I actually wouldnt trade him for Chris Johnson believe it or not, not because I doubt his talent but I dont think CJ would succeed behind our oline, he has great speed and agility but hes not physical enough

I wouldnt trade Hines but thats just because he's unique. In terms of strict skill as a WR Id pick probably over a dozen before him. But the blocking and leadership he brings are indispensable. As for the rest...well I have faith in our WR corps but there's too many good WRs for me to list that Id have over Wallace.

TE...I honestly dont think I would trade Miller, he doesnt put up the stats but all bias aside if we utilized him as much as the "top" TEs are utilized in other teams' offenses he would have been consensus top 5 a long time ago.

Pouncey...well Id trade him for Mangold in a second, but he (Pouncey) is not an elite talent yet by any means. Right now there are a good group of centers that are better than him but because of his upside Id only trade him for Mangold, who is also young but is an elite, established center. The rest of the oline I wont even get into because theyre all dispensable.

Dline...dont think Id trade Smith (only because of the 3-4, obviously there are better 4-3 DEs) or Hampton.

Id trade Harrison for Ware in a heartbeat...similar skill level, big age difference. Wouldnt trade Woodley for Ware though.

Id trade either of our ILBs for Willis, Beason, etc...

Id trade either CB for Nnamdi, Revis, maybe not Woodson or Bailey simply because of their age but theyre both far superior,either Bengals CB...

Wouldnt trade Troy for anyone at SS, Id trade Clark for Reed, Sharper, Rolle, Collins, Byrd...

ETL
08-28-2010, 12:05 PM
I would easily trade Ben for Aaron Rodgers...Manning Brees and Brady are all better as well but I wouldnt trade for them simply because of age. I think Matthew Stafford will be better as well a year or two down the road from now.

I would trade Rashard for a number of backs: AP, Turner, Gore, Sjax...I actually wouldnt trade him for Chris Johnson believe it or not, not because I doubt his talent but I dont think CJ would succeed behind our oline, he has great speed and agility but hes not physical enough

I wouldnt trade Hines but thats just because he's unique. In terms of strict skill as a WR Id pick probably over a dozen before him. But the blocking and leadership he brings are indispensable. As for the rest...well I have faith in our WR corps but there's too many good WRs for me to list that Id have over Wallace.

TE...I honestly dont think I would trade Miller, he doesnt put up the stats but all bias aside if we utilized him as much as the "top" TEs are utilized in other teams' offenses he would have been consensus top 5 a long time ago.

Pouncey...well Id trade him for Mangold in a second, but he (Pouncey) is not an elite talent yet by any means. Right now there are a good group of centers that are better than him but because of his upside Id only trade him for Mangold, who is also young but is an elite, established center. The rest of the oline I wont even get into because theyre all dispensable.

Dline...dont think Id trade Smith (only because of the 3-4, obviously there are better 4-3 DEs) or Hampton.

Id trade Harrison for Ware in a heartbeat...similar skill level, big age difference. Wouldnt trade Woodley for Ware though.

Id trade either of our ILBs for Willis, Beason, etc...

Id trade either CB for Nnamdi, Revis, maybe not Woodson or Bailey simply because of their age but theyre both far superior,either Bengals CB...

Wouldnt trade Troy for anyone at SS, Id trade Clark for Reed, Sharper, Rolle, Collins, Byrd...

Like a lot of your views:

Ben for Rogers - agreed;

Ward - has lots of intangibles - agreed;

Miller - this is tough because his unique set of blocking and catching abilities is really suited for the Steelers but as a pure numbers / catching guy - this guy Jermichael Finley will put up crazy numbers this year.

Pouncey - disagree with you; I think he will be the #1 center by next year - we just need one year to prove it.

Smith - another guy suited uniquely to the Steelers but I am afraid of his age and injuries - I would easily grab Ngati for him

Agree with rest of your comments except Harrison for Ware. I like how mean Harrison is - I think the meanest guy I've ever known in the NFL - I don't think I would trade that away.

pete74
08-28-2010, 12:32 PM
i wouldnt trade pouncy for any other center in the nfl. the rest of our line i will trade in a second but not pouncy. i would trade mendenhall for ray rice as well. i love CJ as a runner but he's stuck up and i wouldnt want that on our team

Riddle_Of_Steel
08-28-2010, 03:40 PM
Trade Ben for Aaron Rodgers?!?!?!?

Right now, Rodgers is nothing more than a Tony Romo or Phillip Rivers in my eyes-- great fantasy stat generator, but still just a postseason choke artist....

SteelCityMom
08-28-2010, 04:05 PM
Trade Ben for Aaron Rodgers?!?!?!?

Right now, Rodgers is nothing more than a Tony Romo or Phillip Rivers in my eyes-- great fantasy stat generator, but still just a postseason choke artist....

He's still young though. I think he'll be a great franchise QB for the Packers.

The only way I would really want him on the Steelers though is if we didn't have Ben. No way I would ever trade Ben for Rodgers though.

Fire Arians
08-28-2010, 04:08 PM
i don't see rodgers being a good trade for ben. ben is a proven winner, and rodgers is a little green and yet to win a championship.

it's not like ben is almost done either, he's 28 and still has a lot of football left. I wouldn't trade ben for anyone. Who else has the ability to play behind our shitty o-line? Not manning, brady, or brees.

PhantomJB93
08-29-2010, 12:47 AM
Trade Ben for Aaron Rodgers?!?!?!?

Right now, Rodgers is nothing more than a Tony Romo or Phillip Rivers in my eyes-- great fantasy stat generator, but still just a postseason choke artist....

Hes had ONE postseason appearance, and he threw for 422 yards, 4 TDs, and 1 INT...he shouldnt have even had to go to overtime where he lost the fumble if his defense didnt play so badly...yes he technically "choked" because he gave up the game losing play, but it wasnt anywhere NEAR being a Romo performance, it wasnt really a "retarded choke mistake" either and the kind of thing that I am 100% sure taught him how to hold the ball better with a defender sacking you, and based on what he did I would not even consider writing him down as a "playoff choker"

Aside from that "choke" performance as some of you like to call it, Rodgers has been better than Ben at every aspect of the game since he took over for Favre, and is almost on the "Manning/Brady/Brees" level as far as QBs go. Not to mention he played behind an even worse Oline than ours last year and is *almost* as good at scrambling and escaping defensive pressure, but BETTER at getting a pass off in said situations and avoiding the sack.

ETL
09-25-2010, 08:42 PM
To summarize, there were several posts stating that they would trade pouncey for Mangold " in a heartbeat". Do you still think so?

Also I love Heath but love jermichael Findlay a little more. Watch him become a huge force this year.

MasterOfPuppets
09-26-2010, 04:29 AM
the way i see it, i'm just hoping pouncey will be as good as mangold. if mangold was 30 years old , maybe i wouldn't make the trade, but he's not. i'm not saying pouncey won't reach mangolds level of play...but mangold is already there and could get better.
just like people that say they wouldn't trade woodley ...:doh:.... we should be so lucky if his game reaches the level of demarcus ware.

ricardisimo
09-26-2010, 04:56 AM
Did something happen with Mangold that I missed? Was Pouncey named to the Pro Bowl already? Last I checked, three of his snaps went wrong in Tennessee.

What's the point to this line of questioning? Why am I even responding to this thread? Why is anyone?

steel-EERS
09-26-2010, 08:05 AM
to me it's like getting another Dirt Dawson, if he stays healthy he will be that good IMO

ETL
09-26-2010, 03:53 PM
I think I can tell when I see talent. If you need Pro Bowl nominations to justify your football instincts, then so be it my slow friend.