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View Full Version : Tomlin shows he's a rookie coach


Hayeksheroes
08-30-2010, 02:17 PM
You can't blame Dixon too much. I blame Tomlin for the poor performance. He threw too many curveballs at Dixon. Apparently, Tomlin has been switching around the rookie receivers, Sanders to flanker for example, which is fine when you have Ben in there. But why do that to Dixon?

Arians wants Dixon to stay in the pocket more and check down. If the receivers are running the wrong routes, what can Dixon do?

Dixon needs to be Dixon. Let him run. Let him throw to receivers who run the designed routes, and tell him to throw the ball away if no one is open in the red zone.

SteelCityMom
08-30-2010, 02:22 PM
So how is it Tomlin's fault if the receivers were running the wrong route? It's Tomlin's job to sort these things out and see how guys perform under pressure.

Dixon made a lot of rookie mistakes in my opinion...as did a lot of the receivers. The coach can't play the game for them.

ricardisimo
08-30-2010, 02:39 PM
So how is it Tomlin's fault if the receivers were running the wrong route? It's Tomlin's job to sort these things out and see how guys perform under pressure.

Dixon made a lot of rookie mistakes in my opinion...as did a lot of the receivers. The coach can't play the game for them.

Oh, no... she becomes a mod and immediately starts blaming the players. http://smiliesftw.com/x/2u7wruo.gif

No, not a great showing by the WRs. I will say this, however: the coaches might want to revisit this whole "Let's throw more of the playbook at the rooks and switch their positions and see how they do" fantasy. As I recall, most if not all of our great receivers (Hines, Plax, Holmes and now Wallace) learned one and only one position their first years, and they turned out alright.

If I remember correctly, Randle El learned all sorts of stuff, mostly gadgets, which was cool, but quite honestly he was never a "great" receiver. He was also a QB, and these two are pure receivers.

SacknificentStew56
08-30-2010, 03:09 PM
Leave the Option for College Football, Tom-Tom. Please don't kill Dixon's career as a QB with bad 4th down playcalling.

steelcity1974
08-30-2010, 03:32 PM
I thought you were going to point out the personal fouls and last week's Ike fight. Dixon's play is on Dixon, his teammates, and the OC. The lack of discipline is on Tomlin. But not sure how you can call him a rookie...this is his 4th season as head coach. Any mistakes he makes now have nothing to do with being green...he's either good, or he's not. Considering two division titles, a SB victory, and 9-7 as his worst performance so far, I'll stick with him over most coaches in the NFL.

steelerchad
08-30-2010, 03:32 PM
You can't blame Dixon too much. I blame Tomlin for the poor performance. He threw too many curveballs at Dixon. Apparently, Tomlin has been switching around the rookie receivers, Sanders to flanker for example, which is fine when you have Ben in there. But why do that to Dixon?

Arians wants Dixon to stay in the pocket more and check down. If the receivers are running the wrong routes, what can Dixon do?

Dixon needs to be Dixon. Let him run. Let him throw to receivers who run the designed routes, and tell him to throw the ball away if no one is open in the red zone.

Disagree with you on this. If Dixon wants to be a starter for the 1st 4 games, he got his chance and he failed. You think he's going to have it easy in a real game. The D is going to throw all kinds of S*** at him. He needs to read and react. He had all day to make the horrid decision on that INT in the endzone. WTF. You throw that away every time and take 3.

MattsMe
08-30-2010, 03:55 PM
I will say this, however: the coaches might want to revisit this whole "Let's throw more of the playbook at the rooks and switch their positions and see how they do" fantasy. As I recall, most if not all of our great receivers (Hines, Plax, Holmes and now Wallace) learned one and only one position their first years, and they turned out alright.


Normally, I'd agree with you. (Big shock, I know. :chuckle:)

But I think in this case we have an abundance of receivers, and the coaches are having a heck of a time trying to decide who to keep. It may now come down to who shows the most versatility at the position.

As for the title of this thread, :rofl: and :coffee:.

That is all.

jjpro11
08-30-2010, 03:59 PM
Tomlin is the only rookie head coach to win a Super Bowl as a head coach. that feat will never be accomplished again.

xXTheSteelKingsXx
08-30-2010, 04:01 PM
Wow. The negativity. Whats going to happen when we lose a game that actually counts? *GASP*

rick723
08-30-2010, 04:03 PM
Some of you guys would BITCH if they hung you with a new rope.
I am SURE GLAD y'all ain't got nothing to do with coaching this team

xXTheSteelKingsXx
08-30-2010, 04:12 PM
Tomlin is the only rookie head coach to win a Super Bowl as a head coach. that feat will never be accomplished again.

Except Tomlin was in his second year when we won the Super Bowl not his first. :doh:

MasterOfPuppets
08-30-2010, 04:16 PM
Wow. The negativity. Whats going to happen when we lose a game that actually counts? *GASP*
indeed...it an F'n preseason game for pete's sake. you use preseason to throw shit at the wall and see what sticks. :doh:

MasterOfPuppets
08-30-2010, 04:16 PM
Except Tomlin was in his second year when we won the Super Bowl not his first. :doh:

:toofunny:

ricardisimo
08-30-2010, 04:21 PM
Except Tomlin was in his second year when we won the Super Bowl not his first. :doh:

But you're missing the point... He showed he was a rookie coach that year as well, bumbling his way all the way through to the SB win... or something like that. :noidea:

MattsMe
08-30-2010, 04:35 PM
indeed...it an F'n preseason game for pete's sake. you use preseason to throw shit at the wall and see what sticks. :doh:

:toofunny:

But you're missing the point... He show he was a rookie coach that year as well, all the way through to the SB win... or something like that. :noidea:

GANG TACKLE!!!
:nono:

Downbylaw
08-30-2010, 05:49 PM
Qbs dont get any blame in the burgh do they? Arians gets thrown under the bus for Ben and now Tomlin for Dixon? Dixon is inexperienced period. That pass on the sideline was not sanders fault, he was coming back to the ball. Dixon spotted him too late and doesnt have the arm strength to be able to get away with late passes. He needs to process the information faster and he cant. I agree with you in one regard, Tomlin is weak to cave in to the media and put him out there with the 1st team. He should have stayed with Ben and Leftwich for that. He set us back a week.

1974/2.0
08-30-2010, 05:54 PM
Not like it matters this is all just to see what's our best option until Ben gets back. Then we will once again have the best QB in the NFL bar none, right downbylaw?

1974/2.0
08-30-2010, 05:56 PM
Downbylaw, here is the proof Ben is not only an elite quaterback of his generation, he is also an ALL TIME elite QB. Your opinion of his rank must purely be personal and not based on anything factual or football related, which is fine, but you are still wrong either way.

http://www.coldhardfootballfacts.com..._the_best.html

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/ram...ack-efficiency

Where is Brady on that list? That's not even all time. If Ben didn't play behind such a great defense he would easily break Elways record, & he STILL might with substantially less comeback chances.

I could post more stats, accolades, & records hes broken that will likely never be touched. There is also a valid, statistically based arguement that proves he is a better QB than Brady, & that's without taking into account his strength & mobility.

So was Terry Bradshaw btw, but you didn't get to see him play. He was Jamarcus Russel with a brain, an arm, and the heart of a champion. He unofficially ran a 3.3 30yd dash, translates into 4.4 speed. Should remind you of Ben but he was a better, TOUGHER runner & athlete by far:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2U1Xt...layer_embedded

I trust Tomlin & the coaching staff have a better idea than you or I of who needs what amount of snaps and with whom. Your assesment of Ben's ability casts credible doubt over the insightfullness and intelligence of all your other observations & opinions.

There is one list Brady adorns that you won't find Bradshaw or Ben on anywhere, those who LOST a SB. Besides, he cheated, so imo it's not even legit.

Back in the 1950s and 1960s, quarterbacks generally handed the ball off more often than they passed it – just like Big Ben does today. But when they did pass, it was typically a high-risk, high-reward downfield throw – much like those passes that Big Ben throws today.

(Of course, the true romantic might envision Big Ben back in the 1940s, slinging the ball down field on offense and then muscling up on defense a la Sammy Baugh. Big Ben certainly seems built like a linebacker, while Baugh, one of the best passers in history, was also a great defensive back.)

To put Big Ben in our comfort zone – that is, to discuss him through the pigskin prism of raw data – Roethlisberger is a throwback performer statistically.

In recent years, offenses have focused on short, high-percentage, low-risk passes more than they did in the past. Think the Joe Montana-Tom Brady school of passing theory, which was made possible by the rule changes of 1978 that spawned the Live Ball Era. (Brady and Montana might be as close statistically as any two passers in history.)

Montana entered the NFL in 1979, just in time to take advantage of the new rules, and under the right coach to take take advantage of the new rules, Paul Brown disciple Bill Walsh

Before Montana, teams tended to throw down the field more aggressively. Montana parlayed new-school offense into four Super Bowl victories and a reputation as the best ever at his position. Brady, before his injury this year, had taken the conservative strategy even further, turning a low YPA average (especially before 2007) and an extaordinarily low INT rate into an historically high passer rating and three Super Bowl victories.

So in recent years, per-attempt averages have generally declined in the NFL, while passer ratings (which reward high completion percentages and low INT rates) have skyrocketed.

Just three active players, for example, are in the top 15 all time in YPA (Warner, Roethlisberger and Peyton Manning). But every player in the Top 20 all time in passer rating began their careers in the Live Ball Era (1978-present). Fifteen of those in the Top 20 are still active.

Roethlisberger is the rare player high on both lists.


Brady is not...

Ben is ALREADY top 10 ALL TIME in QB rating, YPA, Completion %, & winning %.

Brady is not...

Ben is just entering his prime, and has accomplished all this behind lines that were far inferior to what Brady or Manning enjoyed. He is better, & more clutch, than them both, & there is your proof.

As far as MY personal opinion of him & his position with the team, I would have been fine with them trading him if they chose.

If u need to learn anything else feel free to ask, have a nice day...

Downbylaw
08-30-2010, 06:17 PM
Not like it matters this is all just to see what's our best option until Ben gets back. Then we will once again have the best QB in the NFL bar none, right downbylaw?

You got that right buddy (Wink)

Downbylaw
08-30-2010, 06:20 PM
Downbylaw, here is the proof Ben is not only an elite quaterback of his generation, he is also an ALL TIME elite QB. Your opinion of his rank must purely be personal and not based on anything factual or football related, which is fine, but you are still wrong either way.

http://www.coldhardfootballfacts.com..._the_best.html

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/ram...ack-efficiency

Where is Brady on that list? That's not even all time. If Ben didn't play behind such a great defense he would easily break Elways record, & he STILL might with substantially less comeback chances.

I could post more stats, accolades, & records hes broken that will likely never be touched. There is also a valid, statistically based arguement that proves he is a better QB than Brady, & that's without taking into account his strength & mobility.

So was Terry Bradshaw btw, but you didn't get to see him play. He was Jamarcus Russel with a brain, an arm, and the heart of a champion. He unofficially ran a 3.3 30yd dash, translates into 4.4 speed. Should remind you of Ben but he was a better, TOUGHER runner & athlete by far:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2U1Xt...layer_embedded

I trust Tomlin & the coaching staff have a better idea than you or I of who needs what amount of snaps and with whom. Your assesment of Ben's ability casts credible doubt over the insightfullness and intelligence of all your other observations & opinions.

There is one list Brady adorns that you won't find Bradshaw or Ben on anywhere, those who LOST a SB. Besides, he cheated, so imo it's not even legit.

Back in the 1950s and 1960s, quarterbacks generally handed the ball off more often than they passed it just like Big Ben does today. But when they did pass, it was typically a high-risk, high-reward downfield throw much like those passes that Big Ben throws today.

(Of course, the true romantic might envision Big Ben back in the 1940s, slinging the ball down field on offense and then muscling up on defense a la Sammy Baugh. Big Ben certainly seems built like a linebacker, while Baugh, one of the best passers in history, was also a great defensive back.)

To put Big Ben in our comfort zone that is, to discuss him through the pigskin prism of raw data Roethlisberger is a throwback performer statistically.

In recent years, offenses have focused on short, high-percentage, low-risk passes more than they did in the past. Think the Joe Montana-Tom Brady school of passing theory, which was made possible by the rule changes of 1978 that spawned the Live Ball Era. (Brady and Montana might be as close statistically as any two passers in history.)

Montana entered the NFL in 1979, just in time to take advantage of the new rules, and under the right coach to take take advantage of the new rules, Paul Brown disciple Bill Walsh

Before Montana, teams tended to throw down the field more aggressively. Montana parlayed new-school offense into four Super Bowl victories and a reputation as the best ever at his position. Brady, before his injury this year, had taken the conservative strategy even further, turning a low YPA average (especially before 2007) and an extaordinarily low INT rate into an historically high passer rating and three Super Bowl victories.

So in recent years, per-attempt averages have generally declined in the NFL, while passer ratings (which reward high completion percentages and low INT rates) have skyrocketed.

Just three active players, for example, are in the top 15 all time in YPA (Warner, Roethlisberger and Peyton Manning). But every player in the Top 20 all time in passer rating began their careers in the Live Ball Era (1978-present). Fifteen of those in the Top 20 are still active.

Roethlisberger is the rare player high on both lists.


Brady is not...

Ben is ALREADY top 10 ALL TIME in QB rating, YPA, Completion %, & winning %.

Brady is not...

Ben is just entering his prime, and has accomplished all this behind lines that were far inferior to what Brady or Manning enjoyed. He is better, & more clutch, than them both, & there is your proof.

As far as MY personal opinion of him & his position with the team, I would have been fine with them trading him if they chose.

If u need to learn anything else feel free to ask, have a nice day...

I have refuted ALL of this data. See one of my many posts on the matter. Lastly. I became a Steeler fan in 74 so I most certainly DID see Bradshaw play. LOL

jjpro11
08-30-2010, 06:26 PM
Except Tomlin was in his second year when we won the Super Bowl not his first. :doh:

lol that's not what i meant.. i was aiming for sarcasm and failed. the OP called Tomlin a rookie coach.. he's been the head coach for the Steelers for 4 years now and already won a Super Bowl.. so saying he is acting like a rookie head coach is nonsense.

xXTheSteelKingsXx
08-30-2010, 06:30 PM
lol that's not what i meant.. i was aiming for sarcasm and failed. the OP called Tomlin a rookie coach.. he's been the head coach for the Steelers for 4 years now and already won a Super Bowl.. so saying he is acting like a rookie head coach is nonsense.

Okay. Gotcha.

Hayeksheroes
08-30-2010, 08:32 PM
The point is what was Tomlin trying to accomplish by throwing all this stuff at Dixon. Tomlin needs Dixon. There is no Ben for at least 4 games. Build his confidence up.

scsteeler
09-01-2010, 12:43 PM
You can't blame Dixon too much. I blame Tomlin for the poor performance. He threw too many curveballs at Dixon. Apparently, Tomlin has been switching around the rookie receivers, Sanders to flanker for example, which is fine when you have Ben in there. But why do that to Dixon?

Arians wants Dixon to stay in the pocket more and check down. If the receivers are running the wrong routes, what can Dixon do?

Dixon needs to be Dixon. Let him run. Let him throw to receivers who run the designed routes, and tell him to throw the ball away if no one is open in the red zone.



This is why Tomlin is a Head Coach and you are not and will never be in the NFL. OH yes do you think Tomlin told Dixon to throw the ball into double coverage? NO MATTER HOW WELL A COACH INSTRUCTS A PLAYER IT IS UP TO THE PLAYER TO CARRY THAT TASK OUT.

Riddle_Of_Steel
09-01-2010, 06:17 PM
You can't blame Dixon too much. I blame Tomlin for the poor performance. He threw too many curveballs at Dixon. Apparently, Tomlin has been switching around the rookie receivers, Sanders to flanker for example, which is fine when you have Ben in there. But why do that to Dixon?

This is completely brainless.....so, changing out a few receivers and adding a couple wrinkles to the playbook is too much for Dixon to handle, yet you want him for a starting QB?!?!?!?!?!?!?!

Arians wants Dixon to stay in the pocket more and check down. If the receivers are running the wrong routes, what can Dixon do?

Adapt, like other starting QBs do. If he cannot perform the necessities of the position, he should not be considered a possible starter.

Dixon needs to be Dixon. Let him run. Let him throw to receivers who run the designed routes, and tell him to throw the ball away if no one is open in the red zone.

That is exactly what they did, the only problem was he threw the ball to the defenders instead of receiveres running designated routes.....

Riddle_Of_Steel
09-01-2010, 06:23 PM
The point is what was Tomlin trying to accomplish by throwing all this stuff at Dixon.

Umm...maybe Tomlin was "trying to accomplish"seeing if Dixon has what it takes to be a starting QB? If DIxon cannot perform the required duties for the position, why would we want him for a starting QB?

Tomlin needs Dixon. There is no Ben for at least 4 games. Build his confidence up.

"Tomlin needs Dixon"? Sounds like it is the other way around-- based on what you are saying in this thread, Dixon needs Tomlin to water-down the playbook, give him all the best receivers, and make sure the receivers don't run the wrong routes for him to succeed.

Any we would want this person as a starting QB....why again?

1974/2.0
09-02-2010, 01:17 PM
I have refuted ALL of this data. See one of my many posts on the matter. Lastly. I became a Steeler fan in 74 so I most certainly DID see Bradshaw play. LOL

I didn't see where u refuted anything. Id LOVE to see how you do that with his stats & where they rank him among all time greats. What a joke lol...

1974/2.0
09-02-2010, 01:22 PM
Dixon is in the final year of his contract, & neither Lefty/Batch are long term backup solutions. If anything they had to see what they have in Dixon as much as possible. At this point I would keep DD & Batch for this year, Batch to start the first 4 then move him to 3rd string once Ben returns.

Curtain_of_Steel
09-02-2010, 02:19 PM
Tomlins a rookie coach? lol

Hayeksheroes
09-02-2010, 11:09 PM
Looks like Ron Cook agrees with me.
In Cooks latest article in the Gazette, Cook criticizes Steeler Coach MIke Tomlin for how he handled the Qb situation. I have made similar comments in the last two weeks. By adding Ben to the mix Byron Leftwich is grossly unprepared to start the season. It makes no sense to get a guy ready (Ben) when he will be parked for 6 weeks. In the meantime, the qbs we are going to battle with in the 1st 4 weeks have had limited reps with the 1st team. Ben is a savvy Vet, he needs the least reps of Anyone of the qbs. Especially, if he is elite as you guys claim, shouldnt the elite guy need the least work? Ask Brett Favre how much work he needs.

Downbylaw
09-02-2010, 11:31 PM
Looks like Ron Cook agrees with me.
In Cooks latest article in the Gazette, Cook criticizes Steeler Coach MIke Tomlin for how he handled the Qb situation. I have made similar comments in the last two weeks. By adding Ben to the mix Byron Leftwich is grossly unprepared to start the season. It makes no sense to get a guy ready (Ben) when he will be parked for 6 weeks. In the meantime, the qbs we are going to battle with in the 1st 4 weeks have had limited reps with the 1st team. Ben is a savvy Vet, he needs the least reps of Anyone of the qbs. Especially, if he is elite as you guys claim, shouldnt the elite guy need the least work? Ask Brett Favre how much work he needs.

Thanks for reposting my SO ACCURATE post. I wish I was wrong though.

LETS GO BATCH!!

MaidenIndiana
09-03-2010, 12:08 AM
Tomlin is the only rookie head coach to win a Super Bowl as a head coach. that feat will never be accomplished again.

Um??? Don McCafferty (Colts SB V) and George Seifert (49ers SB XXIV) yeah it'll probably never happen again especially since as it's been pointed out already that Tomlin won in his second year

Hayeksheroes
09-03-2010, 12:18 AM
I like Tomlin as a coach. I'm just criticizing him on how he handled the QB competition.

mikegrimey
09-03-2010, 12:19 AM
^ That was a sarcastic remark to point out the absurdity of calling Tomlin a rookie coach. The person who posted that wasn't being serious by any means.