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View Full Version : Vinatieri a free agent?


Cape Cod Steel Head
02-23-2006, 06:51 PM
The Patsy's failed to use the franchise tag on Adam, who will become a unrestricted free agent on 3/4 if they dont reach a deal by then.

tony hipchest
02-23-2006, 07:07 PM
maybe after the colts sign him the patriots can pick up vanderjact. lol

DIESELMAN
02-23-2006, 07:09 PM
I heard the Cowboys might be interested in him.With all the problems and headaches the kicker position gave Parcells last year that might be a good deal for both sides.Also from Sporting News.....The Patriots face an interesting dilemma with K Adam Vinatieri, who will be an unrestricted free agent March 3. Last offseason, the team slapped the franchise tag on Vinatieri. Normally, that tag means the player in question receives a one-year salary equal to the average of the top-five salaries at his position. Unless the player is already the highest paid player at his position -- as Vinatieri was. Then, the player gets a 20 percent raise over the previous season. As a result, Vinatieri made $2,509,000 for 2005. So far, there has been no progress on a new deal for Vinatieri yet if the Pats opt to franchise him again by February 23, they'll pay him $3,010,800. That's a lot of money for a kicker.

SISTINAS
02-23-2006, 07:21 PM
i hope he goes to Dallas instead of any AFC team

Suitanim
02-23-2006, 08:04 PM
3 million for a kicker seems unreasonable until you remember that Al Davis is still an NFL owner.

Somebody may pay...

Cape Cod Steel Head
02-23-2006, 09:45 PM
3 million for a kicker seems unreasonable until you remember that Al Davis is still an NFL owner.

Somebody may pay...Actually Jeff Wilkins, David Ackers,and Niel Rackers all make at least 3 million. Rackers makes 3.8 million.

3 to be 4
02-23-2006, 10:09 PM
This is just stupid. I think Vinatieri has proven the value of a dead on in the clutch kicker.
He probably wins you an extra 2 games a year plus a playoff game, maybe the difference between winning or losing a SB. How many players besides the QB has that kind of impact?
need an example? ask Pete Carroll. In Carrolls last year in New England, Vinatieri blew a potential game winning kick at KC and one at home against Buffalo. it was the difference between 8-8 and being a 10-6 playoff team. Carroll gets fired as a failure. Belichick comes in. If Vinatieri doesnt make the 45 yarder in a blizzard......
give him the 3 million.

klick81
02-23-2006, 10:23 PM
This is just stupid. I think Vinatieri has proven the value of a dead on in the clutch kicker.
He probably wins you an extra 2 games a year plus a playoff game, maybe the difference between winning or losing a SB. How many players besides the QB has that kind of impact?
need an example? ask Pete Carroll. In Carrolls last year in New England, Vinatieri blew a potential game winning kick at KC and one at home against Buffalo. it was the difference between 8-8 and being a 10-6 playoff team. Carroll gets fired as a failure. Belichick comes in. If Vinatieri doesnt make the 45 yarder in a blizzard......
give him the 3 million.

You make a damned good point.

Livinginthe past
02-24-2006, 12:25 AM
Vinatieri has been absolutely amazing for the Patriots - best clutch kicker the game has ever seen.

On the other hand, I dont think you can justify raising a players wages by 20% year-on-year when logic tells you that his skills have to be diminishing with age.

During the salary cap era, the true skills lies in judging a players skill curve and matching it up against his cap hit.

Its a tough call for sure, but then the Pats do excel at making these type of choices.

NM

3 to be 4
02-24-2006, 06:27 AM
Vinatieri has been absolutely amazing for the Patriots - best clutch kicker the game has ever seen.

On the other hand, I dont think you can justify raising a players wages by 20% year-on-year when logic tells you that his skills have to be diminishing with age.

During the salary cap era, the true skills lies in judging a players skill curve and matching it up against his cap hit.

Its a tough call for sure, but then the Pats do excel at making these type of choices.

NM


but have they diminished enough to give the luxury of having him up? first time they lose a game because of a kick just wait. If he was an ordinary kicker i would agree. But guys like Brady and Vinatieri have to exceptions to the rule. Who do you replace him with??

Suitanim
02-24-2006, 09:04 AM
Actually Jeff Wilkins, David Ackers,and Niel Rackers all make at least 3 million. Rackers makes 3.8 million.

And all are overpaid...I also think closing pitchers are overpaid as well...

tony hipchest
02-24-2006, 09:10 AM
Who do you replace him with??

the idiot kicker from indy

Ambridge
02-24-2006, 09:37 AM
Vinatieri has been absolutely amazing for the Patriots - best clutch kicker the game has ever seen.

On the other hand, I dont think you can justify raising a players wages by 20% year-on-year when logic tells you that his skills have to be diminishing with age.

During the salary cap era, the true skills lies in judging a players skill curve and matching it up against his cap hit.

Its a tough call for sure, but then the Pats do excel at making these type of choices.

NM


That's a good point but it seems like it would even more difficult to try and gauge a "diminishing of skills" with kickers.
Most kickers have a pretty good shelf life in the NFL and unless he's missed some big kicks for your team or isn't getting consistant depth on the kick-offs it seems like it would be a hard decision as to where you draw the line of risk/reward.

BB2W
02-24-2006, 01:14 PM
I'm sure he would like to retire a Patriot... I expect a deal to get done.

SteelerDan43
02-24-2006, 01:23 PM
They would be stupid to not resign him, if there is any position where age doesnt matter its the kicker. They can easily play into their early 40's. How you let the guy who won you multiple SBs go, I do not know...

Livinginthe past
02-24-2006, 02:44 PM
but have they diminished enough to give the luxury of having him up? first time they lose a game because of a kick just wait. If he was an ordinary kicker i would agree. But guys like Brady and Vinatieri have to exceptions to the rule. Who do you replace him with??

Who can say?

Personally i'd rather have Vinatieri over any kicker from history kicking the big one as time expires....but I just dont know if the Pats can keep absorbing his increasing cap hit.

Brady took a home town discount, lets hope Vinatieri can find a way to do likewise - I really cany imagine he would rather be kicking FG's twenty points down, even if it gave him more money.

NM

Livinginthe past
02-24-2006, 02:49 PM
That's a good point but it seems like it would even more difficult to try and gauge a "diminishing of skills" with kickers.
Most kickers have a pretty good shelf life in the NFL and unless he's missed some big kicks for your team or isn't getting consistant depth on the kick-offs it seems like it would be a hard decision as to where you draw the line of risk/reward.

Well I think its fair to say that Vinatieri isn't improving as a kicker - which is a moot point considering he is the best.

But one thing on the way up consistently is his share of the salary cap.

I dont think you can keep accepting an increase of 20% on a players wages - even one as clutch as Vinatieri.

As good as he is, the simple fact remains that if he gets a 20% pay rise - he will be less efficient in terms of cap space than he was last year.

NM

Cape Cod Steel Head
02-24-2006, 03:26 PM
Who can say?

Personally i'd rather have Vinatieri over any kicker from history kicking the big one as time expires....but I just dont know if the Pats can keep absorbing his increasing cap hit.

Brady took a home town discount, lets hope Vinatieri can find a way to do likewise - I really cany imagine he would rather be kicking FG's twenty points down, even if it gave him more money.

NMAs would I, but how much of a hometown discount would he have to give? He has his rings. I could see him taking the money and playing in a dome, or warm weather team to pad his stats for the HOF.

Livinginthe past
02-24-2006, 03:46 PM
As would I, but how much of a hometown discount would he have to give? He has his rings. I could see him taking the money and playing in a dome, or warm weather team to pad his stats for the HOF.

I think he could retire tomorrow and make it into the H.O.F easily.

I would hope most players that play for the Steelers or the Patriots would value another chance at success and another ring than a slightly larger paypacket.

It is only a hope though, I have no real idea what the players thoughts on the subject are.

NM

tony hipchest
02-24-2006, 04:49 PM
Brady took a home town discount, lets hope Vinatieri can find a way to do likewise - I really cany imagine he would rather be kicking FG's twenty points down, even if it gave him more money.

NM

you make it seem like the patriots are the only team who arent 20 points down. whats to say he cant go to one of the other 30 teams (steelers arent interrested) and kick game winning field goals there? you put vinatieri on the cowboys last year and the pats miss the playoffs and the cowboys are in. there is life beyond the patriots.

3 to be 4
02-24-2006, 06:09 PM
you make it seem like the patriots are the only team who arent 20 points down. whats to say he cant go to one of the other 30 teams (steelers arent interrested) and kick game winning field goals there? you put vinatieri on the cowboys last year and the pats miss the playoffs and the cowboys are in. there is life beyond the patriots.

thats why the Patriots need Vinatieri more than he needs them. I still say, yes, they could save some money and go get another kicker, but how much is he worth when a game to decide a playoff berth or a conference title or a Super Bowl is on the line?
a lot more than Van der jerk.

tony hipchest
02-24-2006, 06:27 PM
thats why the Patriots need Vinatieri more than he needs them.

i agree 100% how much is he worth? how can you quantify what 3 sb champs mean to a franchise? i think it was your post a while back describing the 6 degrees of seperation of norwoods missed fg (great post). same with p. carroll getting fired after 2 vinatieri missed kicks.

vinatieri it is very possible that t. brady is just looked at as a good qb (like s. mcnair). the patriots defense is looked at as lesser than the 90's bills defense and belichick is looked at as bill cowher was before he won the big one (someone who couldnt get it done without parcells). fact is vinatieri is more important to belichick than parcells was.

3 to be 4
02-24-2006, 09:30 PM
i agree 100% how much is he worth? how can you quantify what 3 sb champs mean to a franchise? i think it was your post a while back describing the 6 degrees of seperation of norwoods missed fg (great post). same with p. carroll getting fired after 2 vinatieri missed kicks.

vinatieri it is very possible that t. brady is just looked at as a good qb (like s. mcnair). the patriots defense is looked at as lesser than the 90's bills defense and belichick is looked at as bill cowher was before he won the big one (someone who couldnt get it done without parcells). fact is vinatieri is more important to belichick than parcells was.

i think every great team has some key cogs it could never have won without. It doesnt lessen each one. Lombardi doesnt win without Starr and visa versa. the Steelers dont win without Bradshaw or Noll, maybe not Harris (see 1976), or Lambert. the 49ers dont without Montana or Walsh. The Cowboys not without Aikman or Smith. And for the Patriots, not without Belichick or Brady or Vinatieri. For a kicker to be in that category makes him a HOFer.

tony hipchest
02-24-2006, 09:58 PM
i think every great team has some key cogs it could never have won without. It doesnt lessen each one. Lombardi doesnt win without Starr and visa versa. the Steelers dont win without Bradshaw or Noll, maybe not Harris (see 1976), or Lambert. the 49ers dont without Montana or Walsh. The Cowboys not without Aikman or Smith. And for the Patriots, not without Belichick or Brady or Vinatieri. For a kicker to be in that category makes him a HOFer. as much as id like to argue with that i cant. im pretty sure the only kicker in the hall of fame is jan stanereud. also think vinatieri has the longest fg at heinz field. that in itself says alot.

Petesburgh66
02-25-2006, 12:52 AM
Vinatieri doesn't have the endorsement deals like Brady to lessen the $ blow of taking a hometown discount. I hope this blows up in the Pats face. You don't find clutch kickers everyday. They should of had him locked up a while ago.

hardwork
02-25-2006, 09:48 AM
as much as id like to argue with that i cant. im pretty sure the only kicker in the hall of fame is jan stanereud. also think vinatieri has the longest fg at heinz field. that in itself says alot.

Stanereud is the only kicker in the HOF. Vinatieri needs more points. I think he's around a thousand, but because of the longevity at that position there are several kickers who have around two thousand points.

Cape Cod Steel Head
02-25-2006, 10:26 AM
Rumor has it that Willie McGinest may also become a free agent.