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View Full Version : So all the sacks are Ben's fault?


zulater
09-03-2010, 06:52 AM
Gee I don't know, after watching Byron Leftwich, Dennis Dixon, and CharlieBatch being flushed from the pocket prematurely on nearly every passing play these past 4 games I get the sense it might have more to do with our shitty offensive line. I mean seriously, what percentage of designed pass plays do you see where the Steelers quarterback can stand comfortably in the pocket and advance past his first or second progression? It's scary to think how good, no make that how much greater Ben would be if he played behind an average offensive line.

zulater
09-03-2010, 07:50 AM
I think if one thing became obvious this preseason is that the oft repeated theory that the Steelers pass protection problems stem back to Ben's inability to make quick decisions with the ball took one major shot in the ass. I think that will continue to be painfully obvious through the first month of the season. So take your choice the problem is either bad offensive line personell or bad schemes, or some combination of the two, but it's becoming more and more obvious that it's not quarterback related. It's a tribute to Ben that his savviness in the pocket allows him to get to his second and third read as often as he does. I doubt there's another qb in the league that could play at an elite level behind the offensive line the Steelers have.

joeyssteelcurtain
09-03-2010, 07:59 AM
I do think Ben would put up better numbers with a good o Line but i also think that ben does his best when the play breaks down and he improvizes and makes a big play down field Like the holmes play in the afc champ game

TackleMeBen
09-03-2010, 08:57 AM
Steelers pass protection problems stem back to Ben's inability to make quick decisions with the ball

i tend to agree. i hear about how he doesnt want to give up on plays, well sometimes that is the only option. the you go back to the drawing board and start again. most of the sacks i believe are ben's fault.

zulater
09-03-2010, 11:09 AM
i tend to agree. i hear about how he doesnt want to give up on plays, well sometimes that is the only option. the you go back to the drawing board and start again. most of the sacks i believe are ben's fault.

For every sack Ben is responsible for, there''s at least one that he'll prevent with his strength, wherewithal and elusivenes.

No one, I repeat no one could play an entire season behind our o-line and not get sacked 40+ times.

Downbylaw
09-03-2010, 11:18 AM
Dixon or Batch wont have sack issues. Just like they didnt in the Pre season. Only one who did was Ben. Not even Leftwich. They get rid of the ball. Did you see Ben last night? Did you see Leftwich? He ran from the pressure and threw it out of bounds (no sack). The only qb on our team with a sack problem is Ben and it wont return (sack problem) until he does.

scsteeler
09-03-2010, 11:19 AM
For every sack Ben is responsible for, there''s at least one that he'll prevent with his strength, wherewithal and elusivenes.

No one, I repeat no one could play an entire season behind our o-line and not get sacked 40+ times.



Yes some other QB's could play with this line and not get sacked 40 times. Ben is a QB that will work a receiver open at times by holding on the the ball and the Steelers more often than others we benefit from that. The down side is he will get sacked more. Most lines if they give you 3-4 seconds has done a good job.

Our line has to hold blocks 5-6 seconds or more at times. While our O-line is not Stellar at that moment it is not the worst. With Pouncey at center our protection will be better and running the ball will be more effective.

LVSteelersfan
09-03-2010, 11:20 AM
Ben keeps plays alive. Plain and simple. If Arians wasn't such a moron and would show some creativity in the passing routes his WRs run, Ben could get the ball out quicker. But the other team sits on the routes because they know exactly what Arians is calling. The receivers constantly run routes too far downfield and run the exact same routes over and over and over ad nauseum. The combination of a horrendous O-line and Arian's stupid game planning lead to most of the sacks. Ben has no place to throw the ball because the receivers are not getting open. Sorry, but that is on the offensive game plan.

Obviously this is my opinion and you are certainly allowed to voice yours. I just don't happen to agree with your train of thought.

i tend to agree. i hear about how he doesnt want to give up on plays, well sometimes that is the only option. the you go back to the drawing board and start again. most of the sacks i believe are ben's fault.

Downbylaw
09-03-2010, 11:24 AM
Ben keeps plays alive. Plain and simple. If Arians wasn't such a moron and would show some creativity in the passing routes his WRs run, Ben could get the ball out quicker. But the other team sits on the routes because they know exactly what Arians is calling. The receivers constantly run routes too far downfield and run the exact same routes over and over and over ad nauseum. The combination of a horrendous O-line and Arian's stupid game planning lead to most of the sacks. Ben has no place to throw the ball because the receivers are not getting open. Sorry, but that is on the offensive game plan.

Obviously this is my opinion and you are certainly allowed to voice yours. I just don't happen to agree with your train of thought.

How come when Ben is out we dont have a sack problem? Same OC, Same line, Same receivers just a different qb. Batch at Baltimore threw 31 times and wasnt sacked once. Dixon at Bmore, threw 26 times and wasnt sacked once. Ben vs the Skins was sacked galore, enter Leftwich and the sacks stop. Ben was harrassed galore vs the Browns (carried out on a gurney) enter Leftwich and the sacks stopped. Same with the Eagle game in 08. Leftwich comes in and the sacks stop (after Ben was sacked EIGHT times).

Downbylaw
09-03-2010, 11:26 AM
Ben is the qb. The Qb has the option to call a hot route. Why doesnt he?

zulater
09-03-2010, 11:33 AM
Dixon or Batch wont have sack issues. Just like they didnt in the Pre season. Only one who did was Ben. Not even Leftwich. They get rid of the ball. Did you see Ben last night? Did you see Leftwich? He ran from the pressure and threw it out of bounds (no sack). The only qb on our team with a sack problem is Ben and it wont return (sack problem) until he does.



Who's preseason have you been watching? :rofl: You're clueless, absolutely clueless. :sofunny:

Downbylaw
09-03-2010, 11:38 AM
Who's preseason have you been watching? :rofl: You're clueless, absolutely clueless. :sofunny:

I offered game time situations and examples. Please feel free to do the same. Merely saying I'm wrong is not proof.

Downbylaw
09-03-2010, 11:42 AM
ONE Steeler qb got sacked last night. GUESS WHO?

LVSteelersfan
09-03-2010, 11:45 AM
Because you are talking about one game here, one game there. That kind of analysis is meaningless when Ben takes most of the snaps the past 7 years. The hot routes aren't there either because Ben is running for his life because the Oline can't pass block for crap. I will say that some of it may be Ben's fault BUT saying it is all on him is absolutely ludicrous.


I offered game time situations and examples. Please feel free to do the same. Merely saying I'm wrong is not proof.

Downbylaw
09-03-2010, 01:23 PM
Because you are talking about one game here, one game there. That kind of analysis is meaningless when Ben takes most of the snaps the past 7 years. The hot routes aren't there either because Ben is running for his life because the Oline can't pass block for crap. I will say that some of it may be Ben's fault BUT saying it is all on him is absolutely ludicrous.

I have documented all of the sacks in his CAREER sir. Uh a hot route is called at the line. A hot route is a changed route called by the Qb as the line of scrimmage. Its design is to beat the blitz by turning a long route into a short quick hitting route. It doesnt happen when Ben is not in there so what else am I supposed to think?

Riddle_Of_Steel
09-04-2010, 05:52 AM
I have documented all of the sacks in his CAREER sir.

Then please list them all in detail for us, please. Please also provide your usual comedic analysis.

I am thinking that you have been sleeping through this whole preseason-- none of our QBs has even looked like starter material so far, because they have been on the run for their lives on every passing down. The only one totally immobile guy went down for 4-6 weeks after less than 30 passing attempts behind our starting and second string offensive lines. The other fleet-footed QB gets happy feet on every other play because of the failing protection. batch hasn't completed a season since 2007 behind this Oline.

Uh a hot route is called at the line. A hot route is a changed route called by the Qb as the line of scrimmage.

No shit, Sherlock. It is pretty common knowlege that Ben likes to go deep. That is also his greatest asset. You would be staring at 4 Lombardi's instead of Six if it weren't for that fact.

Its design is to beat the blitz by turning a long route into a short quick hitting route. It doesnt happen when Ben is not in there so what else am I supposed to think?

If you want to watch our team dink and dunk their way up the field, you are a fan of the wrong team, retard. In case you haven't noticed, the Steelers have relied upon strong defense, an efficient running game, and a VERTICAL PASSING GAME for most of the last 30 yearrs or so.

The Steelers are not, and never have been, a west-coast offense oriented team.

Other than that, you fail epically on all fronts. You WILL be eating your shoes in a month, and begging for Ben to come back.

zulater
09-04-2010, 06:28 AM
I have documented all of the sacks in his CAREER sir. Uh a hot route is called at the line. A hot route is a changed route called by the Qb as the line of scrimmage. Its design is to beat the blitz by turning a long route into a short quick hitting route. It doesnt happen when Ben is not in there so what else am I supposed to think?

Tell you what downie, if in the first 4 games Steelers qb's are sacked 10 times or more, which of course would project to a 40 sack season, you go away, if they are sacked less I'll go. Deal or no deal? we'll see if you're a man who's willing to back up his words with his deeds.

zulater
09-04-2010, 06:32 AM
Then please list them all in detail for us, please. Please also provide your usual comedic analysis.

I am thinking that you have been sleeping through this whole preseason-- none of our QBs has even looked like starter material so far, because they have been on the run for their lives on every passing down. The only one totally immobile guy went down for 4-6 weeks after less than 30 passing attempts behind our starting and second string offensive lines. The other fleet-footed QB gets happy feet on every other play because of the failing protection. batch hasn't completed a season since 2007 behind this Oline.



No shit, Sherlock. It is pretty common knowlege that Ben likes to go deep. That is also his greatest asset. You would be staring at 4 Lombardi's instead of Six if it weren't for that fact.



If you want to watch our team dink and dunk their way up the field, you are a fan of the wrong team, retard. In case you haven't noticed, the Steelers have relied upon strong defense, an efficient running game, and a VERTICAL PASSING GAME for most of the last 30 yearrs or so.

The Steelers are not, and never have been, a west-coast offense oriented team.

Other than that, you fail epically on all fronts. You WILL be eating your shoes in a month, and begging for Ben to come back.

Good post, poor pass protection isn't just measured in sacks.Anyone who just witnessed our preseason that thinks the pass protection wasn't a huge problem unless Ben was behind center is nuts.

Downbylaw
09-04-2010, 08:04 AM
Then please list them all in detail for us, please. Please also provide your usual comedic analysis.

I am thinking that you have been sleeping through this whole preseason-- none of our QBs has even looked like starter material so far, because they have been on the run for their lives on every passing down. The only one totally immobile guy went down for 4-6 weeks after less than 30 passing attempts behind our starting and second string offensive lines. The other fleet-footed QB gets happy feet on every other play because of the failing protection. batch hasn't completed a season since 2007 behind this Oline.



No shit, Sherlock. It is pretty common knowlege that Ben likes to go deep. That is also his greatest asset. You would be staring at 4 Lombardi's instead of Six if it weren't for that fact.



If you want to watch our team dink and dunk their way up the field, you are a fan of the wrong team, retard. In case you haven't noticed, the Steelers have relied upon strong defense, an efficient running game, and a VERTICAL PASSING GAME for most of the last 30 yearrs or so.

The Steelers are not, and never have been, a west-coast offense oriented team.

Other than that, you fail epically on all fronts. You WILL be eating your shoes in a month, and begging for Ben to come back.

Ben is NOT known for going deep lol However he is known for under throwing deep balls.

Downbylaw
09-04-2010, 08:07 AM
Tell you what downie, if in the first 4 games Steelers qb's are sacked 10 times or more, which of course would project to a 40 sack season, you go away, if they are sacked less I'll go. Deal or no deal? we'll see if you're a man who's willing to back up his words with his deeds.

40 sack season? When Ben has gotten 50, 46 and 46 the last 3 seasons why would you take the number down? Interesting. "Back up my words with my deeds"??? Wouldnt they be the qbs deeds? I say the sack problem is on Ben. If I am wrong the let me have it. I can take it. I PROMISE I wont get all buttsore like you guys.

Downbylaw
09-04-2010, 08:09 AM
Good post, poor pass protection isn't just measured in sacks.Anyone who just witnessed our preseason that thinks the pass protection wasn't a huge problem unless Ben was behind center is nuts.

Preseason is a time when you work out the kinks. I'm generally speaking regular season. What has Heath, Hines, Harrison, Timmons or Mendenhall done in the preseason? So does that mean they will suck? I think not.

kirklandrules
09-04-2010, 09:12 AM
I do agree in theory with Downbylaw. I've said for a while it would be nice to see Ben torch blitzing defenses with hot routes. Once he teaches opposing defenses that he can beat them with the quick pass, those defenses will start to sit back ... at that point Ben can take his 10 seconds to grossly underthrow Wallace on a deep pass.

Having said all of that, I will take Ben over any QB in the league. He's the only one who doesn't turn p*ssy when the pressure is on. The NFL's beloved, Manning and Brady, have to adjust their leopard print thongs after Harrison gets his mitts on them. Remember what a piece of sh!t Manning was after we beat the Colts in the AFC Championship, in their house, with tons of pressure? Let me remind you: "You could say we had protection problems.". Way to throw your o-line under the bus you horse's azz! You don't see Ben throw his teammates under the bus even when our line plays poorly ... he takes all the blame like a true leader.

So I guess Ben does have his weakness, but it's not for lack of being a man about it and you have to admit ... it's big payoff for the risk of a sack.

Riddle_Of_Steel
09-04-2010, 03:55 PM
40 sack season? When Ben has gotten 50, 46 and 46 the last 3 seasons why would you take the number down?

Wow. So your suckiness at football analysis is matched only by your ineptitude in mathematics, huh?

How does zulater's estimate of 10 sacks per game work out to be 40 sacks on the season? Last I checked, they play 16 games and at that rate, we would be talking about a 160 sack season.

A bit over the top, wouldn't you say? But you completely missed the point of his post because you were too busy hating on Ben.

EPIC FAIL.

Interesting. "Back up my words with my deeds"??? Wouldnt they be the qbs deeds? I say the sack problem is on Ben. If I am wrong the let me have it. I can take it. I PROMISE I wont get all buttsore like you guys.

In 5 weeks we will be asking you if you want mayo, ketchup, or mustard on that foot you are gonna be eating....

Riddle_Of_Steel
09-04-2010, 06:36 PM
By the way, DBL, we are still waiting for your expert analysis of ALL of Ben's sacks, so that we can begin dismantling that too.....

Riddle_Of_Steel
09-04-2010, 06:39 PM
Preseason is a time when you work out the kinks. I'm generally speaking regular season. What has Heath, Hines, Harrison, Timmons or Mendenhall done in the preseason? So does that mean they will suck? I think not.

Preseason doesn't change the fact that the Hotel sucks in one-on-one matchups, or that the right side of our Oline canot protect our QB.

Usually, we have our Oline set by the time we are going into week 3 of preseason, so the unit can begin to "gel". At this point, do we yet know what the starting lineup is gonna be for our Oline?

Preseason is about individual performances, and so far, our RG and RT have been getting PWNED by even mediocre pass rushers and speed guys on the outsides.

zulater
09-04-2010, 07:44 PM
40 sack season? When Ben has gotten 50, 46 and 46 the last 3 seasons why would you take the number down? Interesting. "Back up my words with my deeds"??? Wouldnt they be the qbs deeds? I say the sack problem is on Ben. If I am wrong the let me have it. I can take it. I PROMISE I wont get all buttsore like you guys.

I figure the pass attempts will be down about 10 per game, so projejected over 4 games that would be about 40 less attemps,, ergo you should expect a couple less sacks in that time span, but the sacks per attemp will likely stay relatively the same.