PDA

View Full Version : A Closer Look at the Roster/Cuts


SteelCityMom
09-05-2010, 11:22 AM
Ed: A Closer Look at the Roster/Cuts
SUNDAY, 05 SEPTEMBER 2010 09:46 WRITTEN BY ED BOUCHETTE

http://plus.sites.post-gazette.com/index.php/sports-town/steelers/104791-ed-a-closer-look-at-the-rostercuts

Good morning,

A closer look at some of the cuts:

--- They kept the two young outside linebackers, Jason Worilds and Thaddeus Gibson, the only backups on the outside with the release of Patrick Bailey. Neither is ready to play, though, so if there is an injury, Lawrence Timmons would move outside, one reason they started him there Thursday night.

--- Scouting/drafting is not a science, as I heard Chuck Noll say. It’s why third-round picks such as Kraig Urbik and Bruce Davis wash out so quickly. The Steelers aren’t the only ones making these “mistakes,’’ it goes with the territory. However, I always laughed at various team scouts and personnel men through the years who belittled Mel Kiper over various rankings and statements he’d make or evaluations. His record is no worse than many teams doing the drafting, only he gets paid by offering his opinions about it.

--- Doug Legursky is living proof of the lack of science in drafting and scouting. He started 32 straight games at Marshall, virtually all at center but was not drafted. The Steelers signed him but he was released before camp as a rookie in 2008, then resigned Aug. 2, released again and then signed to the practice squad. He made the team last year as their backup center and made it again this weekend. He joined them the same time they drafted Urbik on the third round as their second overall pick in 2008.

--- In case you missed it, three Steelers with Super Bowl rings bit the dust in Washington when the Redskins cut Willie Parker, Tyrone Carter and Carey Davis.

--- I’m going to go way out on a limb and predict that none of the Steelers cuts will wind up on another team’s 53-man roster today.

--- Among those who should be signed to the practice squad is Frank Summers, but I think the coaches should re-think how they use him. Summers is not a blocking back, he’s a runner, and the attempts to make him into a lead blocker did not go well. They should allow him to run. He did not have a carry in the preseason while Justin Vincent had 11 and Dwayne Wright, who was waived on the first cut last week, had eight carries. As a rookie, Summers had only three carries.

--- Once again, there is no true fullback on the roster, a job that will be split between Isaac Redman, a running back in college, and tight end David Johnson with possibly the occasional use of offensive lineman Doug Legursky in short yardage.

--- Few trades occur before the final cutdown, which is why center Justin Hartwig and his $2.08 million salary was released. He will play elsewhere, but not at that salary.

--- Keeping injured Byron Leftwich on the team means the Steelers have him in mind as their ultimate backup quarterback. He signed a new two-year contract after the Steelers acquired him in a trade with Tampa Bay.

--- Tackle Tony Hills raised his play tremendously from the start of training camp, convincing them to keep him on the roster as the backup to Max Starks on the left side.

--- Do not be surprised if William Gay starts at left cornerback in the season opener.

--- The Steelers have six wide receivers on their roster and if they decide to use rookie Antonio Brown as their return man, it’s likely all six will dress for games. They’ve dressed as few as four wide receivers in the past.

--- Coordinator Bruce Arians has returned the “pony” backfield to his playbook. He wanted to try it in 2008 with Willie Parker and Rashard Mendenhall but that idea went out the window with Mendenhall’s injury and then Arians abandoned the idea last season. He used a lot of it this summer with Mendenhall and Redman and it seems to be viable because Redman can block as well as run.

steeltheone
09-05-2010, 03:28 PM
Logan will be signed by someone...

steeltheone
09-05-2010, 03:29 PM
Leftwich will be the backup...Dixon will be gone via FA ....and Batch retiring

ricardisimo
09-05-2010, 03:50 PM
--- Do not be surprised if William Gay starts at left cornerback in the season opener.

Interesting, and the thought had occurred to me at one point in the preseason, when it became clear that BMac was far from a lock opposite Ike. I wouldn't mind, to tell you the truth. I think Gay lost his confidence after Peterson flattened him. He might just need more reps and some weight-room time.

ricardisimo
09-05-2010, 03:51 PM
Logan will be signed by someone...

Yeah, I don't see Logan going unemployed for too long.

Tone's Toes
09-05-2010, 04:08 PM
Urbik claimed by Bills and Bailey claimed by Titans.

ricardisimo
09-05-2010, 04:11 PM
Well, so much for bold predictions.

SteelKnight
09-05-2010, 04:26 PM
Leftwich will be the backup...Dixon will be gone via FA ....and Batch retiring

If they start Batch over him, they SHOULD let him go because that means they have absolutely no confidence in him. He is not young anymore. Even Bradford is starting.

If they start Batch over him, Dixon should want to leave. He can get another chance somewhere else...maybe Buffalo.

SteelKnight
09-05-2010, 04:28 PM
Urbik claimed by Bills and Bailey claimed by Titans.

Good for them. If they can't make it here, I wish them luck elsewhere.

The Bills O-line sucks. Maybe Urbik can contribute there.

MasterOfPuppets
09-05-2010, 04:51 PM
If they start Batch over him, they SHOULD let him go because that means they have absolutely no confidence in him. He is not young anymore. Even Bradford is starting.

If they start Batch over him, Dixon should want to leave. He can get another chance somewhere else...maybe Buffalo.

yep...i don't get it. just 2 weeks ago dixon was making a bid for starter for the first 4 weeks , which would lead the normal person to believe tomlin at least thought he was the second best option and batch was on his way out after week 4 . dixon didn't do anything with the opportunity to show why he should be the starter, but then again , neither did batch...:noidea:

SteelKnight
09-05-2010, 05:31 PM
yep...i don't get it. just 2 weeks ago dixon was making a bid for starter for the first 4 weeks , which would lead the normal person to believe tomlin at least thought he was the second best option and batch was on his way out after week 4 . dixon didn't do anything with the opportunity to show why he should be the starter, but then again , neither did batch...:noidea:

Hey Master,

Waiting for you to admit you were wrong with Urbik...lol

On Dixon, maybe Tomlin really didn't feel that way but he was pressured into giving him a chance by everyone else based on his performance in the first two games. Maybe he was thinking that this kid is gonna chock wit more first teamers...and he did. lol

I just don't like Batch. I wish he would retire and become an assistant QB coach. If they use him, they will run on first and second down and only throw on third downs and he will only make 1/4 of those.

The problem is I think Batch is just as prone to throw INTs as Dixon is. Dixon stares at his receiver forever and Batch floats the ball so any defender can recover.

I thought it was funny though how Ward described what we've noticed with Leftwich...that he slings the ball. He said Ben and Charlie have a nice touch. I'm sure he was just being nice to Charlie. He said Dixon throws a nice spiral...but does that mean it is not a nice touch? Who knows? He said he had not had many opportunities to catch Dixon's passes.

Dixon is funny because he makes everyone nervous every snap...offense, defense, coaches on both sides and fans on both sides...lol

I think they should use Dixon but actually encourage him to run often. If he gets 5-7 yards on a play where nobody was open, that's great. It still confuses the defense and makes it so they don't feel like playing man coverage.

pete74
09-05-2010, 06:02 PM
Bills already claimed Urbik off waivers. Detroit also took Logan

Steel_Bus_24
09-05-2010, 06:08 PM
--- Do not be surprised if William Gay starts at left cornerback in the season opener.


wtf is that all about........I have a very hard time believing Gay will ever be anything better then what he displayed last year

Hes not the answer at CB....he's below mediocre at coverage and is a crappy tackler......How many freaking times did he whiff on tackles when teams would throw those quick passes to wrs....it was an automatic 4-6 yard gain

.I hope Ed is just suggesting he may start because B-Mac is still hobbled a bit

Lord I hope Butler picks up the scheme quickly if we're still this desperate at CB....

mikegrimey
09-05-2010, 06:46 PM
Gay wasn't a bad tackler at all, his pancaking by AP notwithstanding. He was abused on coverages frequently but to say he sucked at tackling is hyperbolic.

MasterOfPuppets
09-05-2010, 07:27 PM
--- Do not be surprised if William Gay starts at left cornerback in the season opener.


wtf is that all about........I have a very hard time believing Gay will ever be anything better then what he displayed last year

Hes not the answer at CB....he's below mediocre at coverage and is a crappy tackler......How many freaking times did he whiff on tackles when teams would throw those quick passes to wrs....it was an automatic 4-6 yard gain

.I hope Ed is just suggesting he may start because B-Mac is still hobbled a bit

Lord I hope Butler picks up the scheme quickly if we're still this desperate at CB....
are you aware that ike taylor gave up more receptions and TDs than gay ?

MasterOfPuppets
09-05-2010, 07:43 PM
Hey Master,

Waiting for you to admit you were wrong with Urbik...lol

On Dixon, maybe Tomlin really didn't feel that way but he was pressured into giving him a chance by everyone else based on his performance in the first two games. Maybe he was thinking that this kid is gonna chock wit more first teamers...and he did. lol

I just don't like Batch. I wish he would retire and become an assistant QB coach. If they use him, they will run on first and second down and only throw on third downs and he will only make 1/4 of those.

The problem is I think Batch is just as prone to throw INTs as Dixon is. Dixon stares at his receiver forever and Batch floats the ball so any defender can recover.

I thought it was funny though how Ward described what we've noticed with Leftwich...that he slings the ball. He said Ben and Charlie have a nice touch. I'm sure he was just being nice to Charlie. He said Dixon throws a nice spiral...but does that mean it is not a nice touch? Who knows? He said he had not had many opportunities to catch Dixon's passes.

Dixon is funny because he makes everyone nervous every snap...offense, defense, coaches on both sides and fans on both sides...lol

I think they should use Dixon but actually encourage him to run often. If he gets 5-7 yards on a play where nobody was open, that's great. It still confuses the defense and makes it so they don't feel like playing man coverage.

hey you weren't exactly right on your assessments. ...lol

Come back here Saturday and see. Why can't Urbik be on the PS. he is still eligible. Do you think someone whill snatch him off waivers? I doubt it and if they do, we'll survive.

Urbik won't make the team. I'd rather keep Eason, Battle, or Madison over him (others i don't think will make it).

urbik was the first steeler cast off to be snatched up ....and eason, battle, and madison are still here ....:nana:

Tone's Toes
09-05-2010, 08:00 PM
Guard Kraig Urbik was popular today. Sent to Bills off waivers from PIT, but Bengals, Jets, Broncos and Dolphins all put in claims.

http://twitter.com/ravensinsider

SteelKnight
09-05-2010, 08:15 PM
hey you weren't exactly right on your assessments. ...lol



urbik was the first steeler cast off to be snatched up ....and eason, battle, and madison are still here ....:nana:

OK. lol You got me but I put myself out there. It looked funny the way you quoted it but I specifically mentioned those 3 because I was not sure on them but my point was all 3 would make it before Urbik. lol

I gambled and went with youth with Burnett and Harris and as far as Logan, I liked how he was doing in kick coverage...Battle: I didn't notice in kick coverage.

Those by the way were my ONLY 3 misses and I went 50/53. LOL

As far as Urbik, we'll see how long he stays on that team.

MasterOfPuppets
09-05-2010, 08:32 PM
OK. lol You got me but I put myself out there. It looked funny the way you quoted it but I specifically mentioned those 3 because I was not sure on them but my point was all 3 would make it before Urbik. lol

I gambled and went with youth with Burnett and Harris and as far as Logan, I liked how he was doing in kick coverage...Battle: I didn't notice in kick coverage.

Those by the way were my ONLY 3 misses and I went 50/53. LOL

As far as Urbik, we'll see how long he stays on that team.

the steelers screwed up signing el, and battle so quick, it was a knee jerk reaction to losing holmes. they both got million dollar signing bonuses, and unlike the bungholes and seahawks, the rooney's don't just give money away.

Steel_Bus_24
09-05-2010, 08:41 PM
http://twitter.com/ravensinsider


Im sensing some more teams wanting inside information:thmbdown:

SteelKnight
09-05-2010, 08:42 PM
the steelers screwed up signing el, and battle so quick, it was a knee jerk reaction to losing holmes. they both got million dollar signing bonuses, and unlike the bungholes and seahawks, the rooney's don't just give money away.

Well they gave Randel El the 3rd position without any competition. That's what I didn't like.

I also don't like how they said the rookies route running might have led to a pick or two in the third game. Instead of teaching them slot to be competing with Randel El they put them at back up positions then changed it on them. Who cares? The new position is still not slot. Wallace ran simplified slot patterns with no hot routes last year. Why cant Sanders or Brown do the same this year?

It was funny when ARE came in and said he was going to play #3 and we all insulted him that he was delusional because there was no way he was passing Wallace. It turns out we didn't know Holmes was going to be shipped.

Also notice how the Holmes Florida glass throwing story completely disappeared when he got traded.

ETL
09-05-2010, 08:44 PM
We didn't have the luxury to have urbik develop on our team. If he does become productive - good for him but we couldn't sacrifice depth on a tenuous OL for him.

i have no regrets about letting him go.

Logan, on the other hand, I predict, will have at least 2 special teams touchdowns this year

SteelKnight
09-05-2010, 09:29 PM
We didn't have the luxury to have urbik develop on our team. If he does become productive - good for him but we couldn't sacrifice depth on a tenuous OL for him.

i have no regrets about letting him go.

Logan, on the other hand, I predict, will have at least 2 special teams touchdowns this year

I wanted to keep Logan over Battle. Only the season will determine if I was right or not.

Yeah...Urbik, no love-loss. He couldn't beat out Kemo, Essex or Foster so I'd rather develop someone else. I really don't like Legursky either. They need to get a center who can play guard on their PS.

On a side note, I say Pouncey's brother messing up his snaps this weekend. lol I was thinking GOOD. Let his stock drop so we can get him. We want him to play guard anyway. We don't even know how good our guards are yet. With Pouncey it will make both guards better. When there is a hole up the middle it weakens both guard spots.

On another side note, Bulaga is playing BACK-UP left guard. On draft day, many were wondering why we skipped over one of the Elite 4 Tackles.

Steel_Bus_24
09-05-2010, 09:38 PM
I wanted to keep Logan over Battle. Only the season will determine if I was right or not.

Yeah...Urbik, no love-loss. He couldn't beat out Kemo, Essex or Foster so I'd rather develop someone else. I really don't like Legursky either. They need to get a center who can play guard on their PS.

On a side note, I say Pouncey's brother messing up his snaps this weekend. lol I was thinking GOOD. Let his stock drop so we can get him. We want him to play guard anyway. We don't even know how good our guards are yet. With Pouncey it will make both guards better. When there is a hole up the middle it weakens both guard spots.

On another side note, Bulaga is playing BACK-UP left guard. On draft day, many were wondering why we skipped over one of the Elite 4 Tackles.

Yeah I feel a little bad about it, but I was thinking hoping for the same thing
http://forums.steelersfever.com/images/smilies/sly.gif

MasterOfPuppets
09-05-2010, 10:42 PM
I wanted to keep Logan over Battle. Only the season will determine if I was right or not.

Yeah...Urbik, no love-loss. He couldn't beat out Kemo, Essex or Foster so I'd rather develop someone else. I really don't like Legursky either. They need to get a center who can play guard on their PS.

On a side note, I say Pouncey's brother messing up his snaps this weekend. lol I was thinking GOOD. Let his stock drop so we can get him. We want him to play guard anyway. We don't even know how good our guards are yet. With Pouncey it will make both guards better. When there is a hole up the middle it weakens both guard spots.

On another side note, Bulaga is playing BACK-UP left guard. On draft day, many were wondering why we skipped over one of the Elite 4 Tackles.
you mean like jonathan scott ? christ , he couldn't even stick on a pathetic buffalo bills team ... what did he do to earn a roster spot ?

pete74
09-06-2010, 04:59 AM
I'm not a huge Urbik fan but still I would of rather kept him then Essex. I feel Essex the worst guard on our team. If he ends up starting were going to have alot of problems this year. He can not block worth a crap and he dosnt deserve to be a starter in the NFL.

ricardisimo
09-06-2010, 05:09 AM
Cutting Logan was, I guess, neither here nor there, except that detail of keeping Battle instead. Why?

Same with Urbik. Just like Pete said: We're keeping Essex? Huh? Besides, I could swear there was talk of improvement with him during training camp. I'm at a loss to understand how a guy who was so highly touted before the draft cannot be coached up by Kugler, who supposedly can "get his guys to run through walls" for him. And finally, given that patience with Hills appears finally to be paying off, why would we not show the same with Urbik?

SteelKnight
09-06-2010, 05:25 AM
you mean like jonathan scott ? christ , he couldn't even stick on a pathetic buffalo bills team ... what did he do to earn a roster spot ?

He's the only one who has been playing RT recently (correct me if I'm wrong people). If Urbik could play RT, he'd be here. They have talked about Foster and Essex but when Colon was here, he really didn't have much challenge at RT (I believe Foster tried). Foster has settled into back up guard (L and R) but could do it in an emergency short term. Essex is mostly guard now. He was not tried at RT at all. Even when he used to play some tackle, it was more LT. Hills only plays LT.

So they can go with Foster and Legursky as the active non Starters to have all positions covered sort term during a game but if Starks goes down, the next game Hills would take over and if Adams goes down, the next game Scott will take over. If either Kemo or Essex goes down it'll be Foster and if Pouncey goes down, next game will be Legursky.

Also the new O-line coach likes him.

SteelKnight
09-06-2010, 05:32 AM
I'm not a huge Urbik fan but still I would of rather kept him then Essex. I feel Essex the worst guard on our team. If he ends up starting were going to have alot of problems this year. He can not block worth a crap and he dosnt deserve to be a starter in the NFL.

Are you kidding? Essex is the starting RG and Pouncey was having trouble unseating him. If Essex goes down, Foster is still better than Urbik. So Urbik was already 3rd string at best. The only question is whether he was better at guard than Legursky. Legursky had the edge because he is a center.

How could you say you would rather keep a 3rd or fourth stringer over the starter.

If you can ever watch Urbik's senior bowl workouts/drills, and you keep in mind that he had 4 years of training, you will be disappointed.

SteelKnight
09-06-2010, 05:35 AM
Cutting Logan was, I guess, neither here nor there, except that detail of keeping Battle instead. Why?

Same with Urbik. Just like Pete said: We're keeping Essex? Huh? Besides, I could swear there was talk of improvement with him during training camp. I'm at a loss to understand how a guy who was so highly touted before the draft cannot be coached up by Kugler, who supposedly can "get his guys to run through walls" for him. And finally, given that patience with Hills appears finally to be paying off, why would we not show the same with Urbik?

Because Urbik was 3rd or 4th string. Hills is second and Essex is a Starter. That is EARNED. Foster is the second string and was decent last year.

I don't know if Urbik was "Highly touted". It was a weak guard class and he was 3rd behind Duke Robinson (who went in the 5th round and still sucks).

Just watch his senior bowl drills.

Downbylaw
09-06-2010, 06:03 AM
I agree and have said many times. I dont know what the infatutuation for Urbik was. He has shown nothing.

Tone's Toes
09-06-2010, 09:30 AM
I'm not sure where people are getting Urbik showed nothing and is garbage. Those people must not have watched the preseason this year. The guy played LG, C, RG and played all 3 very well. The reality of why he wasn't kept around is that it's a numbers game and the coaches like/trust Legursky and Foster more. That doesn't mean Urbik is garbage and showed nothing. He played well and obviously there were other teams that noticed and it's not just because of where he got picked (3rd round). Nobody picked up Bruce Davis (3rd round pick) because their scouts could see he was horrible. The scouts also must have noticed that Urbik had a very good preseason and was worth a shot.

Urbik showed me enough this preseason that I would have kept him around another year to further develop him. I would have got rid of Battle, kept 5 WR's and 10 O-Lineman. The Steelers chose to do the opposite and keep 6 WR's and 9 O-Lineman and that's fine. Colbert finding undrafted guys like Legursky and Foster makes up for some picks that don't work out here for whatever reason. It sucks we lost Urbik, but we lost him because we found 2 good undrafted lineman that could beat him out for 2 of the 9 spots.

Downbylaw
09-06-2010, 09:59 AM
I'm not sure where people are getting Urbik showed nothing and is garbage. Those people must not have watched the preseason this year. The guy played LG, C, RG and played all 3 very well. The reality of why he wasn't kept around is that it's a numbers game and the coaches like/trust Legursky and Foster more. That doesn't mean Urbik is garbage and showed nothing. He played well and obviously there were other teams that noticed and it's not just because of where he got picked (3rd round). Nobody picked up Bruce Davis (3rd round pick) because their scouts could see he was horrible. The scouts also must have noticed that Urbik had a very good preseason and was worth a shot.

Urbik showed me enough this preseason that I would have kept him around another year to further develop him. I would have got rid of Battle, kept 5 WR's and 10 O-Lineman. The Steelers chose to do the opposite and keep 6 WR's and 9 O-Lineman and that's fine. Colbert finding undrafted guys like Legursky and Foster makes up for some picks that don't work out here for whatever reason. It sucks we lost Urbik, but we lost him because we found 2 good undrafted lineman that could beat him out for 2 of the 9 spots.

Of course I watched the Pre season and in fact have every game still recorded. So if you would, please cite some of these plays that you speak of where Urbik did well. There was also a numbers game at LB but Tomlin went back on his earlier statment of only keeping 8 and why was that? That was because Sylvester actually made him say screw the numbers. The fact that Urbik got beat out by two undrafted linemen substantiates my point, that he has shown nothing.

Tone's Toes
09-06-2010, 10:55 AM
Sylvester has dual value in that he and most LB's can play special teams, O-Lineman do not. Urbik would not play, would not dress and would not contribute anything until at least next season and that's why he's gone, but he does have some potential .

He's a lineman. I can't give you specific plays. Just watch the lineman instead of following the ball and you'd see that he did play well in the preseason. If you can't re-watch the games and see that, I can't help you. You just don't know what you're watching or talking about, so I'm wasting my time.

Downbylaw
09-06-2010, 11:20 AM
Sylvester has dual value in that he and most LB's can play special teams, O-Lineman do not. Urbik would not play, would not dress and would not contribute anything until at least next season and that's why he's gone, but he does have some potential .

He's a lineman. I can't give you specific plays. Just watch the lineman instead of following the ball and you'd see that he did play well in the preseason. If you can't re-watch the games and see that, I can't help you. You just don't know what you're watching or talking about, so I'm wasting my time.

O-lineman do if they are diverse. Thats what you do on the Kickoff return team bro YOU BLOCK. I do watch the lineman. I watched Pouncey block the NT and spring Mewelde for a nice gain against the Lions. I watched Legursky get a good block to spring Dwyer last week. I have also been seing Kemo look like crap. Thats the purpose of me recording the games, so I can go back and watch each facet of the game. Our O-Line is gelling. Kemo is the weakest link, NOT Flozell. Apparently The Steelers dont know what they are watching and talking about either because Urbik is gone and the only team that was interested in him is the one that is DESPERATE for O-lineman.