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mesaSteeler
09-07-2010, 07:43 PM
Madden: No crime but Ben does time
By: Mark Madden
Beaver County Times
http://www.timesonline.com/sports/sports_details/article/1501/2010/september/06/madden-no-crime-but-ben-does-time/print.html?type=98&cHash=8c1c9b24a7fb6089ca1312f2e3f585df

The final verdict: Ben Roethlisberger is suspended four games.

What a crock.

Steelers fans shouldn’t complain. NFL commissioner Roger Goodell originally ruled six games, with a possible reduction to four if Roethlisberger showed exemplary behavior. Ben did, so Goodell kept his part of the bargain. A deal’s a deal.

But so much has happened since that deal was made.

Rey Maualuga of Cincinnati: Drunk driving, no suspension. Shaun Rogers of Cleveland: Gun in an airport, no suspension. Vince Young of Tennessee: Videotaped fighting in a strip club, no suspension. Charges, convictions, evidence — no suspensions.

Compounding matters further, the legendary Brett Favre reportedly sent extremely improper texts to Jenn Sterger of the Versus network. Both were employed by the New York Jets at the time. The NFL would not confirm or deny that it’s investigating. Here’s betting it’s not.

Don’t forget, Roethlisberger was never charged with anything. Not enough evidence. Is Ben a victim? He was wrongly accused, that’s for sure.

Given Roethlisberger’s admittedly poor judgment, an avalanche of bad PR and the (intentional?) vagaries of the NFL’s personal conduct policy, the idea of a suspension is not absurd. But six games? Six games when those convicted miss zero action?

Arbitrary. Capricious. Unfair.

Goodell saw a chance to make an example of a superstar and took full advantage — not that Maualuga, Rogers and Young were scared straight. Goodell also saw a chance to make an example of a white superstar.

Of the 18 players suspended by the NFL this year, 16 (89 percent) are black. Some might racially profile. Others might note that the majority (approximately 65 percent) of the NFL is black, so the majority of those suspended should, logically, be black. Quite a difference between 89 percent and 65 percent, though.

But there’s no denying that the whole world was watching after Milledgeville, especially after the district attorney in charge of the case basically proclaimed Roethlisberger guilty despite having neither the evidence or guts to prosecute. Had Goodell been lenient, the NFL’s black majority might have been upset. Same with black special interest groups. Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton might have shown up on Goodell’s doorstep.

So Goodell overreacted. Can’t say I blame him.

Roethlisberger can’t complain, not too loud, anyway. More bad PR. But those on the inside know Ben is seething at the inequity.

He’s probably seething at Terry Bradshaw, too. In the same recent interview where Bradshaw said, “I wish I didn’t have to play for Pittsburgh,” the former Steelers quarterback said, “Going to bars — treating women like that, oh my God. I pray they don’t cut (his suspension) to four games. I hope they leave it at six.”

This is the same Terry Bradshaw who once wrote, in his own biography, “I had separated myself from God. I lived only for Terry Bradshaw, not for God. I tried to be one of the boys and went to every honky-tonk I could find and chased women and behaved in a way that was totally alien to anything I had ever known before.”

Apparently second chances are only good for Bradshaw, not Roethlisberger.

A vocal minority of Yinzer Nation — a lobby which is either getting quieter or diminishing in number, maybe both — still spews outrage over Ben’s alleged misogyny, demands further suspension and wishes the Steelers had traded Roethlisberger, or cut him, or hit him in the head with a hammer.

Understand this: As of Friday, those decisions have all been made. Roethlisberger wasn’t charged. The length of his suspension has been finalized. He’s still the Steelers’ franchise quarterback. Except for the delayed reaction of a few zealots, this is over.

Mark Madden hosts a radio show 3-6 p.m. weekdays on WXDX-FM (105.9).

figg
09-07-2010, 07:50 PM
Good read. I feel the same way.

Fire Arians
09-07-2010, 07:58 PM
man that's the first time i ever heard mark madden support anyone from the steelers. did he get hit in the head on the way to work?

this has to be the first time i ever agreed on him with anything

zulater
09-07-2010, 07:59 PM
Good read. I feel the same way.

Ditto that. :applaudit:

xXTheSteelKingsXx
09-07-2010, 08:15 PM
Good read. Glad to see you back mesa.

rich4eagle
09-07-2010, 08:43 PM
:tt04:Madden: No crime but Ben does time
By: Mark Madden
Beaver County Times
http://www.timesonline.com/sports/sports_details/article/1501/2010/september/06/madden-no-crime-but-ben-does-time/print.html?type=98&cHash=8c1c9b24a7fb6089ca1312f2e3f585df

The final verdict: Ben Roethlisberger is suspended four games.

What a crock.

Steelers fans shouldn’t complain. NFL commissioner Roger Goodell originally ruled six games, with a possible reduction to four if Roethlisberger showed exemplary behavior. Ben did, so Goodell kept his part of the bargain. A deal’s a deal.

But so much has happened since that deal was made.

Rey Maualuga of Cincinnati: Drunk driving, no suspension. Shaun Rogers of Cleveland: Gun in an airport, no suspension. Vince Young of Tennessee: Videotaped fighting in a strip club, no suspension. Charges, convictions, evidence — no suspensions.

Compounding matters further, the legendary Brett Favre reportedly sent extremely improper texts to Jenn Sterger of the Versus network. Both were employed by the New York Jets at the time. The NFL would not confirm or deny that it’s investigating. Here’s betting it’s not.

Don’t forget, Roethlisberger was never charged with anything. Not enough evidence. Is Ben a victim? He was wrongly accused, that’s for sure.

Given Roethlisberger’s admittedly poor judgment, an avalanche of bad PR and the (intentional?) vagaries of the NFL’s personal conduct policy, the idea of a suspension is not absurd. But six games? Six games when those convicted miss zero action?

Arbitrary. Capricious. Unfair.

Goodell saw a chance to make an example of a superstar and took full advantage — not that Maualuga, Rogers and Young were scared straight. Goodell also saw a chance to make an example of a white superstar.

Of the 18 players suspended by the NFL this year, 16 (89 percent) are black. Some might racially profile. Others might note that the majority (approximately 65 percent) of the NFL is black, so the majority of those suspended should, logically, be black. Quite a difference between 89 percent and 65 percent, though.

But there’s no denying that the whole world was watching after Milledgeville, especially after the district attorney in charge of the case basically proclaimed Roethlisberger guilty despite having neither the evidence or guts to prosecute. Had Goodell been lenient, the NFL’s black majority might have been upset. Same with black special interest groups. Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton might have shown up on Goodell’s doorstep.

So Goodell overreacted. Can’t say I blame him.

Roethlisberger can’t complain, not too loud, anyway. More bad PR. But those on the inside know Ben is seething at the inequity.

He’s probably seething at Terry Bradshaw, too. In the same recent interview where Bradshaw said, “I wish I didn’t have to play for Pittsburgh,” the former Steelers quarterback said, “Going to bars — treating women like that, oh my God. I pray they don’t cut (his suspension) to four games. I hope they leave it at six.”

This is the same Terry Bradshaw who once wrote, in his own biography, “I had separated myself from God. I lived only for Terry Bradshaw, not for God. I tried to be one of the boys and went to every honky-tonk I could find and chased women and behaved in a way that was totally alien to anything I had ever known before.”

Apparently second chances are only good for Bradshaw, not Roethlisberger.

A vocal minority of Yinzer Nation — a lobby which is either getting quieter or diminishing in number, maybe both — still spews outrage over Ben’s alleged misogyny, demands further suspension and wishes the Steelers had traded Roethlisberger, or cut him, or hit him in the head with a hammer.

Understand this: As of Friday, those decisions have all been made. Roethlisberger wasn’t charged. The length of his suspension has been finalized. He’s still the Steelers’ franchise quarterback. Except for the delayed reaction of a few zealots, this is over.

Mark Madden hosts a radio show 3-6 p.m. weekdays on WXDX-FM (105.9).

Great epistle.........and not far off from what it is.......not sure God needed to be brought in especially since he may or may not exist or may or may not care about the NFL......

in any case......Big Ben is a proven winner who has proven in college and pros to make big plays when big plays are needed..........

too bad he a single guy is the target of hate........while our boy Tiger gets adulated daily despite having 16 or so mistresses and a wife and two infant children.

when a nation goes mad it goes really mad...........the Ben and Tiger treatment is just another example

Shea
09-07-2010, 09:02 PM
I couldn't read the whole thing.

Ben needed a suspension to deflate his head and bring him back down to earth with the rest of us.

figg
09-07-2010, 09:21 PM
I couldn't read the whole thing.

Ben needed a suspension to deflate his head and bring him back down to earth with the rest of us.

He definitely needed something no doubt. But it's the hypocrisy of the whole suspension situation that pisses most fans off.

steelerjim58
09-07-2010, 09:27 PM
I couldn't read the whole thing.

Ben needed a suspension to deflate his head and bring him back down to earth with the rest of us.

So you believe arrogance or perceived arrogance is reason enough to suspend someone? Wow!!!!!

Shea
09-07-2010, 09:36 PM
He definitely needed something no doubt. But it's the hypocrisy of the whole suspension situation that pisses most fans off.

I get that and you won't get any argument out of me on that one.

So you believe arrogance or perceived arrogance is reason enough to suspend someone? Wow!!!!!

There is nothing perceived about Ben's arrogance.

Even he's acknowledged that.

And that alone didn't get his ass in NY sitting across from the Commish.

StainlessStill
09-07-2010, 10:24 PM
I couldn't read the whole thing.

Ben needed a suspension to deflate his head and bring him back down to earth with the rest of us.

What about the rest of the league? Everyone acts like Ben's the only "scumbag" the NFL has ever produced. Please. I don't buy it. All NFL players or athletes alike are no saints, period. I agree with Madden. Ben is the victim in all of this. See what allegations of one drunken skank could do?

And kudos to the walking hypocritical contradiction Terry Bradshaw. Typical cop-out BS rant. We get it, Bradshaw.. you hate Pittsburgh. You don't have to show your damn face here ever again. We loved you as a QB and you will forever be stuff of legends, but don't act like you're the all-mighty standard of a human being. You aren't. Thanks for the 4 SB's.

mesaSteeler
09-07-2010, 10:29 PM
What about the rest of the league? Everyone acts like Ben's the only "scumbag" the NFL has ever produced. Please. I don't buy it. All NFL players or athletes alike are no saints, period. I agree with Madden. Ben is the victim in all of this. See what allegations of one drunken skank could do?

And kudos to the walking hypocritical contradiction Terry Bradshaw. Typical cop-out BS rant. We get it, Bradshaw.. you hate Pittsburgh. You don't have to show your damn face here ever again. We loved you as a QB and you will forever be stuff of legends, but don't act like you're the all-mighty standard of a human being. You aren't. Thanks for the 4 SB's.


"Everyone acts like Ben's the only "scumbag" the NFL has ever produced. Please. I don't buy it." - Well said and I agree. Anyone who knows the history of the Cowboys, or the Vikings or the Raiders, or "insert team name here", knows that there were lots of players of ill repute on any team you care to name.

cloppbeast
09-07-2010, 10:29 PM
I don't buy it. All NFL players or athletes alike are no saints, period.

Actually, Drew Brees is a Saint. So is Pierre Thomas, Reggie Bush, Marques Colston, Devery Henderson, Robert Meachem........:chuckle:

PhantomJB93
09-07-2010, 10:40 PM
Ya, I was 100% for the suspension when it was first given but after all the other incidents (specifically the Shaun Rodgers one because I think that almost warrants jailtime personally, the fact he got away with a slap on the wrist infuriated me) I just was mad about it...not because I think Ben didnt deserve it, but because it was made clear that Goddell just wanted to put himself on a pedestal by suspending a "league star" and didnt care what anybody else did.

Also, I hope we unofficially unretire number 12

Shea
09-07-2010, 10:45 PM
What about the rest of the league? Everyone acts like Ben's the only "scumbag" the NFL has ever produced. Please. I don't buy it. All NFL players or athletes alike are no saints, period. I agree with Madden. Ben is the victim in all of this. See what allegations of one drunken skank could do?

And kudos to the walking hypocritical contradiction Terry Bradshaw. Typical cop-out BS rant. We get it, Bradshaw.. you hate Pittsburgh. You don't have to show your damn face here ever again. We loved you as a QB and you will forever be stuff of legends, but don't act like you're the all-mighty standard of a human being. You aren't. Thanks for the 4 SB's.

Normally, I'd respond to this but I just am not feeling it anymore, nor do I have the energy or desire.

How 'bout I send you a friend request instead?

Would you be interested?

MasterOfPuppets
09-07-2010, 10:45 PM
Actually, Drew Brees is a Saint. So is Pierre Thomas, Reggie Bush, Marques Colston, Devery Henderson, Robert Meachem........:chuckle:
didn't "St reggie", just lose his heisman ? :chuckle:

Downbylaw
09-07-2010, 10:52 PM
Ben violated the Conduct Policy. If it was Carson Palmer you Homers would agree with Goodell. Did shaun rogers embarrass the league like Ben did? Even close? Name me one other guy to embarrass the league worse than Ben in the last year. I'll wait.

In the past, Goodell has made it clear that protecting the NFL's brand is his foremost concern. When Goodell barred Vick from training camp while dogfighting charges were pending against him, he wrote this to Vick: "While it is for the criminal justice system to determine your guilt or innocence, it is my responsibility as commissioner of the National Football League to determine whether your conduct, even if not criminal, nonetheless violated league policies, including the Personal Conduct Policy."

Ben VIOLATED the conduct policy and was suspended accordingly. You guys act like Seahawk fans. Instead of just saying "We got beat by the better team" they have to blame the refs, instead of blaming their team. If you want to blame someone, BLAME BEN.

steelerjim58
09-07-2010, 10:53 PM
Ya, I was 100% for the suspension when it was first given but after all the other incidents (specifically the Shaun Rodgers one because I think that almost warrants jailtime personally, the fact he got away with a slap on the wrist infuriated me) I just was mad about it...not because I think Ben didnt deserve it, but because it was made clear that Goddell just wanted to put himself on a pedestal by suspending a "league star" and didnt care what anybody else did.

Also, I hope we unofficially unretire number 12

I know that it's all matter of opinion, and it's been debated to death. But how anyone feels that Ben deserved to be suspended just blows me away.

BigRick
09-07-2010, 11:10 PM
I totaly agree with Madden. Several months ago a Colts player was accused of the same thing Ben was. But....... he wasn't a starter on the team. haven't heard anything more about it. Could it have been swept under the rug since he wasn't a star in the NFL? Then several weeks ago a Colts player was found drunk in a ditch. In Indiana that merits a drunk in public charge. But...... he wasn't charged. Haven't heard anything from Goddell about either incident. Wherse does he draw the line?

Downbylaw
09-07-2010, 11:10 PM
He did deserve to be suspended. How anyone thinks he doesnt just blows ME away. Even Ben thinks he should have been. Thats the reason he didnt appeal it.

Downbylaw
09-07-2010, 11:13 PM
I totaly agree with Madden. Several months ago a Colts player was accused of the same thing Ben was. But....... he wasn't a starter on the team. haven't heard anything more about it. Could it have been swept under the rug since he wasn't a star in the NFL? Then several weeks ago a Colts player was found drunk in a ditch. In Indiana that merits a drunk in public charge. But...... he wasn't charged. Haven't heard anything from Goddell about either incident. Wherse does he draw the line?

Thats because it wasnt his SECOND TIME. What happened Bens 1st time? You didnt hear anything about it. Why? Because ESPN put a gag order on the story. Did Ben get suspended after his 1st allegatin? NO he didnt. SIGH

Let someone at your job get two rape allegations in a year and see if there isnt some damage control done. You guys are insane, I swear.

BigRick
09-07-2010, 11:21 PM
Thats because it wasnt his SECOND TIME. What happened Bens 1st time? You didnt hear anything about it. Why? Because ESPN put a gag order on the story. Did Ben get suspended after his 1st allegatin? NO he didnt. SIGH

Let someone at your job get two rape allegations in a year and see if there isnt some damage control done. You guys are insane, I swear.

Where were you under a rock? His first so called offense was all over the internet and the news.

Downbylaw
09-07-2010, 11:26 PM
Where were you under a rock? His first so called offense was all over the internet and the news.

Of course it was, AFTER awhile. But again, did he gets suspended? No he didnt.
We had just won the Super Bowl, what did you think it would be a non story for long? SIGH

Steel_Bus_24
09-07-2010, 11:35 PM
Thats because it wasnt his SECOND TIME. What happened Bens 1st time? You didnt hear anything about it. Why? Because ESPN put a gag order on the story. Did Ben get suspended after his 1st allegatin? NO he didnt. SIGH

Let someone at your job get two rape allegations in a year and see if there isnt some damage control done. You guys are insane, I swear.


don't give me that 1st time 2nd time...."Its a Pattern of behavior" BS in this matter


Other players have been freaking charged 2-3 times and received less


Look at that punk Brandon Marshall....hes had like 9 run ins with the law and got a

whopping 1 freaking game


Even if I were to believe Ben should be suspended(Which I don't), no way should it be 6 games

Ruffneck525
09-08-2010, 12:22 AM
OP.....that was quite simply one of the best most accurate posts ever made. period

mikegrimey
09-08-2010, 01:32 AM
Article is dead on regarding the inconsistencies or moral subjectivity on display here as well as Goodell's fear of PC elitists screaming "racism" influencing his decision.

It's bad luck but can't stop it now.

zulater
09-08-2010, 05:35 AM
He did deserve to be suspended. How anyone thinks he doesnt just blows ME away. Even Ben thinks he should have been. Thats the reason he didnt appeal it.

That's speculative, we really don't know why Ben didn't appeal. Personally my own speculation is that I think it was put to him in a non subtle way that his compliance with whatever ruling Goodell set down was tantamount to his remaining a Steeler. I further believe that Ben may have painted himself in a corner inasmuch as he might have agreed to full compliance with Goodell's ruling before knowing what it was that was coming and he was likely expecting much less.

Downbylaw
09-08-2010, 06:14 AM
don't give me that 1st time 2nd time...."Its a Pattern of behavior" BS in this matter


Other players have been freaking charged 2-3 times and received less


Look at that punk Brandon Marshall....hes had like 9 run ins with the law and got a

whopping 1 freaking game


Even if I were to believe Ben should be suspended(Which I don't), no way should it be 6 games

Has Brandon embarrassed the league? I guarantee offhand not many fans would know what those runins were. EVERYONE knows what Ben is alleged. Therein lies the difference. Truth knocks the brains out of falsehood.

Downbylaw
09-08-2010, 06:20 AM
That's speculative, we really don't know why Ben didn't appeal. Personally my own speculation is that I think it was put to him in a non subtle way that his compliance with whatever ruling Goodell set down was tantamount to his remaining a Steeler. I further believe that Ben may have painted himself in a corner inasmuch as he might have agreed to full compliance with Goodell's ruling before knowing what it was that was coming and he was likely expecting much less.

Those speculations dont align themselves with the facts. Ben was ok with the suspension AFTER the decision, hence no appeal. I'll be candid and ask you a point blank question- what would happen to you at your job if you had two rape allegations in a year. Your telling me they would take a "well he wasnt charged" approach? NO BUSINESS or entitity takes that stuff lying down. Those are the facts. I also, find it suspicious that this "victim" has yet to file a civil suit. The whole thing smells of a payoff. If this was Carson Palmer you would be agreeing with me but since Ben is on our team you have a bias. Sorry, I dont.

zulater
09-08-2010, 06:31 AM
Those speculations dont align themselves with the facts. Ben was ok with the suspension AFTER the decision, hence no appeal. I'll be candid and ask you a point blank question- what would happen to you at your job if you had two rape allegations in a year. Your telling me they would take a "well he wasnt charged" approach? NO BUSINESS or entitity takes that stuff lying down. Those are the facts. I also, find it suspicious that this "victim" has yet to file a civil suit. The whole thing smells of a payoff. If this was Carson Palmer you would be agreeing with me but since Ben is on our team you have a bias. Sorry, I dont.

If there was a payoff I can guarantee you that it was the accuser's people that approached Ben rather than the other way around. Because if Ben's people had initiated such a discussion it could have resulted in felony witness tampering charges.

And on a different board last year I vehemently defended Donte Stallworth and he was a Brown. And no I don't agree with drunken driving, but specific to the facts of that case the punishement meted out by both the local autorities and the league I found to be appropriate, and believe me I got lambasted for that opinion. So no it's not just about Ben being a Steeler.

As was the case there after have familiarized myself with all the available facts, not just the sensationilized ones, I found it way more likely that Ben was innocent of commiting a crime than commiting one, therefore he's deserving of the same presumption of innocence that any uncharged person would be.

Downbylaw
09-08-2010, 06:55 AM
If there was a payoff I can guarantee you that it was the accuser's people that approached Ben rather than the other way around. Because if Ben's people had initiated such a discussion it could have resulted in felony witness tampering charges.

And on a different board last year I vehemently defended Donte Stallworth and he was a Brown. And no I don't agree with drunken driving, but specific to the facts of that case the punishement meted out by both the local autorities and the league I found to be appropriate, and believe me I got lambasted for that opinion. So no it's not just about Ben being a Steeler.

As was the case there after have familiarized myself with all the available facts, not just the sensationilized ones, I found it way more likely that Ben was innocent of commiting a crime than commiting one, therefore he's deserving of the same presumption of innocence that any uncharged person would be.


Regardless of WHO approached who, what does that matter if Ben took the bait. Its not like rich people dont have a History of using their money to get out of trouble. I know if I had that kind of money I know I would use it to my advantage. Only a fool wouldnt. It would result in felony "Trying to influence a witness" charges IF the victim had repored it. This victim however, is the one who went to the DA and said she wouldnt cooperate. How is any DA going to prosecute a case with a VICTIM who wont cooperate? He cant. Hence, no charges being filed.

Ok, you sided with Stallworth, good for you. I certainly do not but thats another argument for another day. Lastly, it is NOT about whether he commited a crime, how can you guys miss that obvious point (because you have a bias). Your brain wont let you wrap around the idea that your guy did something wrong. If any one of us had gotten 2 rape allegations in a year at our jobs, there would be LOTS of consequences and we all know it. Ben was guilty of violating the conduct policy, plain and simple. I will post Goodells words again.

In the past, Goodell has made it clear that protecting the NFL's brand is his foremost concern. When Goodell barred Vick from training camp while dogfighting charges were pending against him, he wrote this to Vick: "While it is for the criminal justice system to determine your guilt or innocence, it is my responsibility as commissioner of the National Football League to determine whether your conduct, even if not criminal, nonetheless violated league policies, including the Personal Conduct Policy."

The two allegations have put Bens fellow NFL players under severe scrutiny due to these allegations. Women are lurking now to get that payday. In the same manner that Plaxico put players under scrutiny in terms of firearms. I GUARANTEE the NFL players are not hapy with Ben. This is drawing negative attention to them all when they go out and it wont be long before we hear of another incident like this. Not from Ben (hope not) but from another NFL player. Its like when a kid brings a gun to school, they put it on the news and the next thing you know you have another kid getting the idea in his head, so he does it.

zulater
09-08-2010, 11:30 AM
I never said Ben didn't deserve any punishment. But I always thought it should have come from the team rather than the league. Hell if the Steelers decided to sit Ben for the season I might not have been thrilled with the idea, but never would have argued their right to do so.

I guess what it comes down to with me is that imo the league shouldn't have had the right to penalize Ben. Absent of charges and given an uncooperative accuser all you're left with is heresay, rumor, and innuendo. And a governing body shouldn't punish or convict without tangible evidence.

So applying Ben's situation to myself. My wife and I operate a small stable of thoroughbred race horses, and I also supplement my income by shipping other peoples horses. So say I was accused in the same way that Ben was. It would be within the rights of any of my clients to dismiss me with or without charges. But absent of a conviction the governing body ( TRPB thoroughbred racing and protection bureu) wouldn't revoke or suspend my license and I would be free to procure more clients and continue to ply my trade.

Steel_Bus_24
09-08-2010, 11:55 AM
Has Brandon embarrassed the league? I guarantee offhand not many fans would know what those runins were. EVERYONE knows what Ben is alleged. Therein lies the difference. Truth knocks the brains out of falsehood.

why the F*** is that???? Because of slanted Media coverage isn't it???

Your not got going to sit here and argue that accusations should be more of an embarrassment than multiple charges(plus convictions) of crimes

You need to stop focusing on the accusations of rape anyways....for one, the evidence doesn't support yours or anybody else's misguided theories about what went on that night


And for another, Goodell said he suspended Ben for the "Pattern of Behavior with alcohol use", which Madden in this article, and others are calling BS on given how he's handled other player affairs

Downbylaw
09-08-2010, 01:24 PM
I never said Ben didn't deserve any punishment. But I always thought it should have come from the team rather than the league. Hell if the Steelers decided to sit Ben for the season I might not have been thrilled with the idea, but never would have argued their right to do so.

I guess what it comes down to with me is that imo the league shouldn't have had the right to penalize Ben. Absent of charges and given an uncooperative accuser all you're left with is heresay, rumor, and innuendo. And a governing body shouldn't punish or convict without tangible evidence.

So applying Ben's situation to myself. My wife and I operate a small stable of thoroughbred race horses, and I also supplement my income by shipping other peoples horses. So say I was accused in the same way that Ben was. It would be within the rights of any of my clients to dismiss me with or without charges. But absent of a conviction the governing body ( TRPB thoroughbred racing and protection bureu) wouldn't revoke or suspend my license and I would be free to procure more clients and continue to ply my trade.


As I said previously the NFL players are all affected by the actions of deviant players. That is precisely why the NFL players union gave the Commissioner all of the power that he currently has. They were tired of the Pacmans,Vicks etc ruining the image of the players. So they gave Goodell the power to implement a conduct policy to get the leagues good name back. They also signed off on the appellate process and agreed to let Goodell be that decion maker as well. Those actions prove that the NFL players are sick and tired of the bad media being brought to their sport by individuals who make bad choices. They want it stopped and stopped now.

The Steelers were prepared to discipline Ben, TRUST THAT. But had they done so, the players union would have stepped in, so they asked Goodell to do the honors. If the Rooneys had suspended Ben, I believe he would have gotten six games instead of 4. They were THAT mad about it by all indications. Again, this is NOT a criminal issue, it is a CONDUCT one. If use bad judgement and conduct detrimental to the NFL then you are subject to get fined and or suspended. Ben got the latter. Why you keep bringing the criminal element into this is a mystery to me.

Your analogy doesnt apply because charges are NOT an issue. Conduct is. Unless your TRPB has a conduct policy then you will be fine. Lastly, If you had two rape allegations within a year, you wouldnt have to worry about any clients, they would be gone. Trust me.

Downbylaw
09-08-2010, 01:38 PM
why the F*** is that???? Because of slanted Media coverage isn't it???

Your not got going to sit here and argue that accusations should be more of an embarrassment than multiple charges(plus convictions) of crimes

You need to stop focusing on the accusations of rape anyways....for one, the evidence doesn't support yours or anybody else's misguided theories about what went on that night


And for another, Goodell said he suspended Ben for the "Pattern of Behavior with alcohol use", which Madden in this article, and others are calling BS on given how he's handled other player affairs

Sorry if you have an issue with this but Rape and Rape allegations are big news. Its right up there with murderers and serial killers. In fact, they have a nationwide smear campaign called Level 1,2,3 Sex Offenders. The campaign works wonders. Accusations are a pattern of behavior. Thats why you cant name anyone else who has been charged with rape twice within a year in any sport. There is only one, Ben Roethlisberger. Whether true or not, he is putting himself in bad situations and something needed to be done. Do you notice that Ben hasnt been in any more situations since Georgia? Do you notice there have been no recent rape allegations? They have Ben's attention now. Stop getting mad at the powers that be and get mad at the one who made the bad decision. That would Be Ben. But of course you cant blame him now can you. Those that dont arent accountable people. They look to blame everyone else for their woes and problems. The accountable people in life blame the rightful people. The one who actually put himself in the bad situation. I know plenty of convicts who sound just like you guys. Always blamimg someone else, instead of themselves. Its sad.

zulater
09-08-2010, 01:41 PM
As I said previously the NFL players are all affected by the actions of deviant players. That is precisely why the NFL players union gave the Commissioner all of the power that he currently has. They were tired of the Pacmans,Vicks etc ruining the image of the players. So they gave Goodell the power to implement a conduct policy to get the leagues good name back. They also signed off on the appellate process and agreed to let Goodell be that decion maker as well. Those actions prove that the NFL players are sick and tired of the bad media being brought to their sport by individuals who make bad choices. They want it stopped and stopped now.

The Steelers were prepared to discipline Ben, TRUST THAT. But had they done so, the players union would have stepped in, so they asked Goodell to do the honors. If the Rooneys had suspended Ben, I believe he would have gotten six games instead of 4. They were THAT mad about it by all indications. Again, this is NOT a criminal issue, it is a CONDUCT one. If use bad judgement and conduct detrimental to the NFL then you are subject to get fined and or suspended. Ben got the latter. Why you keep bringing the criminal element into this is a mystery to me.

Your analogy doesnt apply because charges are NOT an issue. Conduct is. Unless your TRPB has a conduct policy then you will be fine. Lastly, If you had two rape allegations within a year, you wouldnt have to worry about any clients, they would be gone. Trust me.



First off, if the Steelers could have disciplined Ben the same way they did Santonio a couple years back against the Giants and the Union couldn't have done a thing.That is to say it's within the teams power to put any player they want on the inactive list whenver they want for whatever reason they want and the union can't do a damn thing about it.

Second off I think Ben's situation is very unique, the rape allegations against him are connected imo, but in not in the way most want to believe.To me the second allegation came about because of a predisposition of a friend of the accuser who was able to talk her friend into making a false allegation after she ( the accuser) initially denied that a rape had occured, or wasn't even sure if she had even had sex with Ben. Someday very soon I'm going to start a thread entitled, " Why Ben is entitled to a presumption of innocence by objective minded people." where I'll further elaborate on it. But to your point could I have survived such allegations, yes I could were the allegations as nebulous in nature as the ones levied against Ben.

Oh by the way how many times has bill clinton been accused of sexual impropriety, both consentual and non consentual? He seems to be chugging on pretty good in his life still.

Downbylaw
09-08-2010, 01:51 PM
First off, if the Steelers could have disciplined Ben the same way they did Santonio a couple years back against the Giants and the Union couldn't have done a thing.That is to say it's within the teams power to put any player they want on the inactive list whenver they want for whatever reason they want and the union can't do a damn thing about it.

Second off I think Ben's situation is very unique, the rape allegations against him are connected imo, but in not in the way most want to believe.To me the second allegation came about because of a predisposition of a friend of the accuser who was able to talk her friend into making a false allegation after she ( the accuser) initially denied that a rape had occured, or wasn't even sure if she had even had sex with Ben. Someday very soon I'm going to start a thread entitled, " Why Ben is entitled to a presumption of innocence by objective minded people." where I'll further elaborate on it. But to your point could I have survived such allegations, yes I could were the allegations as nebulous in nature as the ones levied against Ben.

Oh by the way how many times has bill clinton been accused of sexual impropriety, both consentual and non consentual? He seems to be chugging on pretty good in his life still.

Of course they could have but the union could have done something. They would have appealed it and it would have been a long drawn out scenario. With Goodell there is no appeal. Thats why the Rooney's petitioned to him to do so.

Again, you are fixated on the CRIMINAL element. Again (lol), its not a criminal issue. No matter how hard you try to make it one its not. Its a conduct issue. So if you think that Ben had good conduct then thats fine but its wrong. How would you feel if you and your friends were in a bar and your mom was drunk, locked in a bathroom with some strange guy, with a guard at the door? Your wife? Your daughter? Your son? Is that good conduct? Ben is a millinaire, he had a home near, why not take her there and then you avoid this whole situation.

So you answer is Bill Clinton? Have you ever heard the saying "Two wrongs don't make a right"?? Perhaps not.

urgle burgle
09-08-2010, 02:51 PM
. How would you feel if you and your friends were in a bar and your mom was drunk, locked in a bathroom with some strange guy, with a guard at the door?
So you answer is Bill Clinton? Have you ever heard the saying "Two wrongs don't make a right"??

How else do you think my mom makes extra money for smokes?

and actually.....

in quantum physcis, 2 wrongs do make a right.......strange that.

:hatsoff:

Downbylaw
09-08-2010, 03:08 PM
How else do you think my mom makes extra money for smokes?

and actually.....

in quantum physcis, 2 wrongs do make a right.......strange that.

:hatsoff:

Enter Semantics and sense of humor when you dont have a rational argument. I could see if Ben was locked up without being charged (Most states can detain you for a 72 hour investigative hold. But must charge you within that 72 hours or release you) then you would have a legit gripe.

zulater
09-08-2010, 03:26 PM
Of course they could have but the union could have done something. They would have appealed it and it would have been a long drawn out scenario. With Goodell there is no appeal. Thats why the Rooney's petitioned to him to do so.

No the Union couldn't have appealed it just so long as Ben was getting his regular check.The team can put anyone they like on the inactive list whenever they like just so long as they pay them.

Again, you are fixated on the CRIMINAL element. Again (lol), its not a criminal issue. No matter how hard you try to make it one its not. Its a conduct issue. So if you think that Ben had good conduct then thats fine but its wrong.

I never said I approved of the when Ben conducted himself that night. I just don't think it should be within the league's rights to be the morality police. You commit a crime the league should come down on you. If you act like an ass in public and damage the image of the team then it should be the team that acts, not the league.


How would you feel if you and your friends were in a bar and your mom was drunk, locked in a bathroom with some strange guy, with a guard at the door? Your wife? Your daughter? Your son? Is that good conduct?

Well first off I'd probably determine if they went there of their own free will or not, and if they had, oh well. Not the greatest thing, but that's their right. Seriously, two single people go off for a grope with someone guarding the door to prevent an unwanted intrusion, believe it or not it happens from time to time. I don't think I'd threaten a career over it.




Ben is a millinaire, he had a home near, why not take her there and then you avoid this whole situation.

He acted the part of a man****, he needs to grow up and learn to have more respect for woman and himself.

So you answer is Bill Clinton? Have you ever heard the saying "Two wrongs don't make a right"?? Perhaps not.


No but I have heard of a presumption of innocence.

urgle burgle
09-08-2010, 03:37 PM
Enter Semantics and sense of humor when you dont have a rational argument. I could see if Ben was locked up without being charged (Most states can detain you for a 72 hour investigative hold. But must charge you within that 72 hours or release you) then you would have a legit gripe.

dude, simmer down and get a friggin' sense of humor...

did i comment one way or the other? at this point....i don't give a flying **** one way or the other. the game is a few days a way, and i made a harmless, slightly funny(i thought) comment. i don't have a rational argument because i chose not to. Man...i bet your great at parties....

Downbylaw
09-09-2010, 06:31 AM
No but I have heard of a presumption of innocence.

He is NOT innocent. He is guilty of violating the conduct code. Why didnt ANY NFL players come to his defense? Why didnt ANY Steelers come to his defense? Where are the "Ben got shafted" articles? Why havent any PLAYERS expressed what you are expressing?

Downbylaw
09-09-2010, 06:32 AM
dude, simmer down and get a friggin' sense of humor...

did i comment one way or the other? at this point....i don't give a flying **** one way or the other. the game is a few days a way, and i made a harmless, slightly funny(i thought) comment. i don't have a rational argument because i chose not to. Man...i bet your great at parties....

Yah hoo! Celebrate good times come on!