PDA

View Full Version : daisy cutters, the M.O.A.B., and our current "war"


tony hipchest
03-01-2006, 03:59 PM
since the topic of our recent "war" has been a hot topic, and since we DO have a large contingincy of posters out in the sandbox i will take this opportunity to show them support.

i believe it was stlrs4life who brought up reagan and the H-bomb. it made me smile. it reminded me how we dropped a few daisy cutters in afghanistan and immediately had a news release stating and clarifying that this indeed was NOT a nuclear weapon. shortly after that, america unveiled the MOAB testing (our new 20,000 pound bomb Mother Of All Bombs that was tested in alabama i believe). along with word that a 25,000 version was in the works. then the miniature nuclear bunker busters.

i have met several of the generals of HAFB (home of the stealths) including the current secretary of defense brig. general larson. their stay at the base is often short as they are often given a star promoted to washington. i have had my photo taken with a stealth (8" by 10") for an official community partners appreciation function. i have touched the case holding the 1st americain flag to be flown over baghdad, dropping the 1st bomb in the 1st war in the gulf (feb. 18 1991 was the date i believe) i have talked to stealth pilots what it looks like flying through the tracer fire. i went to the welcome home parade for spc. joseph hudson (one of the rescued p.o.w's who was shown waving the american flag out of the top of the c-130 upon his return to the states)

of all of these things i am extremely proud- especially of being a american civilian. but i am much more proud of the troops who are serving. i sponsored a party for my brother in law and his transportation division before their 2nd deployment. escorting convoys is a very dangerous job over their. if you know what an i.e.d. is and the term ambush im sure you know this. i have sent him care packages along with sporting news papers to pass around to fellow troops. i have sent toys and soccer cards (like baseball cards) and candy to pass out to the kids who would approach their perimeter when he was on guard duty). i have heard 1st hand stories of r.p.g's whizzing over head in his base at mosul. him providing medical attn and trying to save the life of his fallen commrad and him taking a life. not quite what you imagine when you join the airforce and get thrust into an army battalion.

i applied to the air force academy, and for a rotc scholarship to pitt and carnegie mellon to become a field surgeon. i am a registered and active voting democrat.

this being said i have earned the right to say i disapprove of g. bush and our current role in iraq. you dont have to support the civilian president to support the troops. voicing displeasure is not un american, nor is it turning our backs on the troops.

i could be wrong about this but the day president bush had that horse and pony show on the aircraft carrier and prematurely declared an end to the war (and major military operations) about 3 years ago he denied all current troops veteran of foreign war status and the benefits and prestige that go along with it. i do not approve of this.

as previously stated the country is clearly divided in half amongst party lines. at a time when we need unity the right and left wing extremests act like we are shiites and zunis. this is not good. it is not a black and white issue.

thank you troops and God bless those who died and their families.

this is why i rarely engage in debates in such matters cause some people can only see one side of the argument rather than seeing both sides of the issues. and i hate being pigeonholed into one category or another. the world is just not that simple.

Stlrs4Life
03-01-2006, 04:22 PM
Excellent post. I don't remember mentioning any H-Bomb, but was over there when the first C-130 dropped some bombs on them to start the war.

tony hipchest
03-01-2006, 04:27 PM
i didnt re read the thread but props for being over there. i forgot to mention the b-52's carpet bombing the afhgan hillsides. i loved the footage, and for a 50 year old plane to still be as effective as it is, is trully amazing, especially when theres talks of grounding the stealths. (born in 1986 i believe)

augustashark
03-01-2006, 05:44 PM
this being said i have earned the right to say i disapprove of g. bush and our current role in iraq. you dont have to support the civilian president to support the troops. voicing displeasure is not un american, nor is it turning our backs on the troops.

.


You don't have to earn a right to diapprove. You are an american citizen that is what gives you the right. Support who you want, that is your right. No one here is trying to take that away from you. No one can make you vote for who you don't like!

Stillers#1
03-01-2006, 05:47 PM
i didnt re read the thread but props for being over there. i forgot to mention the b-52's carpet bombing the afhgan hillsides. i loved the footage, and for a 50 year old plane to still be as effective as it is, is trully amazing, especially when theres talks of grounding the stealths. (born in 1986 i believe)

Hey if you want to talk about 50 year old airplanes, lets not forget the KC-135's (the plane that I fly on). Without the tankers, America is no where near as effective in warfighting, plus its pretty cool to refuel multi-million dollar aircraft in mid-air.

tony hipchest
03-01-2006, 06:07 PM
Hey if you want to talk about 50 year old airplanes, lets not forget the KC-135's (the plane that I fly on). Without the tankers, America is no where near as effective in warfighting, plus its pretty cool to refuel multi-million dollar aircraft in mid-air. great point!

actually my my brother in law got to fly in one of those one time and got to video tape it refueling a stealth in mid air! totally awesome. i felt proud just to watch that, knowing its something not all americans get to see.

Stillers#1
03-01-2006, 07:02 PM
I have some pics and video of a B-2 that I refueled, if you want, I could post it somewhere I'm sure

tony hipchest
03-01-2006, 07:12 PM
I have some pics and video of a B-2 that I refueled, if you want, I could post it somewhere I'm sure i drive under the flightline pAth all the time and 1 time a b-2 stopped by on its way to misourri. happenned to catch it landing and it flew about 200 ft. over my van. totally awesome! also watched a f-4 drone rupture its fuel cell upon landing and burn to the ground in a huge fireball. good thing it was remote controll. awesome sight to say the least. also driving under a c-5 as it is coming in for landing is pretty freaky and one hell of a rush. the seem to be moving so slow its like they will drop out of the sky.

you should post them in this thread or start a new one. give everybody appreciation of our technology and the manpower behind it

3 to be 4
03-01-2006, 09:44 PM
since the topic of our recent "war" has been a hot topic, and since we DO have a large contingincy of posters out in the sandbox i will take this opportunity to show them support.

i believe it was stlrs4life who brought up reagan and the H-bomb. it made me smile. it reminded me how we dropped a few daisy cutters in afghanistan and immediately had a news release stating and clarifying that this indeed was NOT a nuclear weapon. shortly after that, america unveiled the MOAB testing (our new 20,000 pound bomb Mother Of All Bombs that was tested in alabama i believe). along with word that a 25,000 version was in the works. then the miniature nuclear bunker busters.

i have met several of the generals of HAFB (home of the stealths) including the current secretary of defense brig. general larson. their stay at the base is often short as they are often given a star promoted to washington. i have had my photo taken with a stealth (8" by 10") for an official community partners appreciation function. i have touched the case holding the 1st americain flag to be flown over baghdad, dropping the 1st bomb in the 1st war in the gulf (feb. 18 1991 was the date i believe) i have talked to stealth pilots what it looks like flying through the tracer fire. i went to the welcome home parade for spc. joseph hudson (one of the rescued p.o.w's who was shown waving the american flag out of the top of the c-130 upon his return to the states)

of all of these things i am extremely proud- especially of being a american civilian. but i am much more proud of the troops who are serving. i sponsored a party for my brother in law and his transportation division before their 2nd deployment. escorting convoys is a very dangerous job over their. if you know what an i.e.d. is and the term ambush im sure you know this. i have sent him care packages along with sporting news papers to pass around to fellow troops. i have sent toys and soccer cards (like baseball cards) and candy to pass out to the kids who would approach their perimeter when he was on guard duty). i have heard 1st hand stories of r.p.g's whizzing over head in his base at mosul. him providing medical attn and trying to save the life of his fallen commrad and him taking a life. not quite what you imagine when you join the airforce and get thrust into an army battalion.

i applied to the air force academy, and for a rotc scholarship to pitt and carnegie mellon to become a field surgeon. i am a registered and active voting democrat.

this being said i have earned the right to say i disapprove of g. bush and our current role in iraq. you dont have to support the civilian president to support the troops. voicing displeasure is not un american, nor is it turning our backs on the troops.

i could be wrong about this but the day president bush had that horse and pony show on the aircraft carrier and prematurely declared an end to the war (and major military operations) about 3 years ago he denied all current troops veteran of foreign war status and the benefits and prestige that go along with it. i do not approve of this.

as previously stated the country is clearly divided in half amongst party lines. at a time when we need unity the right and left wing extremests act like we are shiites and zunis. this is not good. it is not a black and white issue.

thank you troops and God bless those who died and their families.

this is why i rarely engage in debates in such matters cause some people can only see one side of the argument rather than seeing both sides of the issues. and i hate being pigeonholed into one category or another. the world is just not that simple.

Excellent, excellent post. I actually think it was me who said Reagan would have found a peice of Arab desert and dropped an H-Bomb on 9/12 as a warning. You are so right.
Even moreso because of the questionablr nature of this war, I admire so much the men and women who serve our country. They deserve all our praise, free education and free housing when they get back home for all they have done and all that they risk. You can love and support these people while not supporting the leaders who make such bonehead, or in some cases, immoral decisions. the govenment hides behind them. And it always disturbed me how George Bush seized on 9/11 to win re-election, as if supporting Kerry meant you "have forgotten 9/11". this was NY. Im sure a few Democrats were in those towers, George. Im sick of the black and white thinking on this. I fully supported this President when he stood up in Congress and said that any nation that harbored terrorists would be treated as terrorist nation. I thought he was serious. I supported the invasion of Afganistan. And then something happened. Bush went back on his word. He looked the other way when it came to Saudi Arabia, N.Korea, Iran, Syria etc etc. Why? He didnt close the borders. Why? He didnt protect the ports. why? So dont call it "Bush-bashing".
I just listed all the times i supported him. I didnt turn my back on him, he turned his back on me. And then he wins an election by using 9/11. And hiding behind "the troops" His policies are killing troops. So Iraq can have good schools.

tony hipchest
03-01-2006, 10:49 PM
You don't have to earn a right to diapprove. You are an american citizen that is what gives you the right. Support who you want, that is your right. No one here is trying to take that away from you. No one can make you vote for who you don't like! i just feel those who dont excersize their right to vote dont have a right to bitch. it pisses me off to hear someone rant and rave then when you ask them how they voted they say theyre to lazy to vote or dont care. i dont even mind a teenager or kid bitching as long as when its time, their vote will be cast.

3 to b 4- credit for the h-bomb remark. i didnt want to go back and read the thread in the midst of a stream of consciousness.

augustashark
03-01-2006, 11:13 PM
Excellent, excellent post. I actually think it was me who said Reagan would have found a peice of Arab desert and dropped an H-Bomb on 9/12 as a warning. You are so right.
Even moreso because of the questionablr nature of this war, I admire so much the men and women who serve our country. They deserve all our praise, free education and free housing when they get back home for all they have done and all that they risk. You can love and support these people while not supporting the leaders who make such bonehead, or in some cases, immoral decisions. the govenment hides behind them. And it always disturbed me how George Bush seized on 9/11 to win re-election, as if supporting Kerry meant you "have forgotten 9/11". this was NY. Im sure a few Democrats were in those towers, George. Im sick of the black and white thinking on this. I fully supported this President when he stood up in Congress and said that any nation that harbored terrorists would be treated as terrorist nation. I thought he was serious. I supported the invasion of Afganistan. And then something happened. Bush went back on his word. He looked the other way when it came to Saudi Arabia, N.Korea, Iran, Syria etc etc. Why? He didnt close the borders. Why? He didnt protect the ports. why? So dont call it "Bush-bashing".
I just listed all the times i supported him. I didnt turn my back on him, he turned his back on me. And then he wins an election by using 9/11. And hiding behind "the troops" His policies are killing troops. So Iraq can have good schools.


By your post you supported GW once. I don't want to get into a big spat here, but you are a dem and no matter what GW does you are going to jump to dispute. It's your right to dispute anything that he does, but remember he did get re-elected.

tony hipchest
03-01-2006, 11:36 PM
By your post you supported GW once. I don't want to get into a big spat here, but you are a dem and no matter what GW does you are going to jump to dispute. It's your right to dispute anything that he does, but remember he did get re-elected. i think alot of people voted for bush to not do a disservice to our troops buy switching leaders at a time of war. this could present a sign of weakness to our enemys and dissention amongst our people. personally i figured bush got us into this, lets let him get us out of it according to his plan. btw, what was his plan to get us out of it? or is that a problem better solved by the next administration? if its a problem better left solved for the next administration maybe it wouldve been better to put them in place in 2004.

augustashark
03-01-2006, 11:48 PM
What I think presents a sign of weakness is the media and the nay sayers that spout off day in and day out about how we are losing (the war) or that the troops don't want to be there! Your statement of "Bush got us into this, lets let him get us out" is off. As I remember more than 2/3 of the country supported the war in Iraq when it began! So I don't see it as Bush got us into this. Hell 90% or more of congress voted for the war! Are we to believe that all of them were tricked into voting. If we are, then we need a complete overhaul of our government! Republican and dems alike!

tony hipchest
03-01-2006, 11:54 PM
What I think presents a sign of weakness is the media and the nay sayers that spout off day in and day out about how we are losing (the war) or that the troops don't want to be there! Your statement of "Bush got us into this, lets let him get us out" is off. As I remember more than 2/3 of the country supported the war in Iraq when it began! So I don't see it as Bush got us into this. Hell 90% or more of congress voted for the war! Are we to believe that all of them were tricked into voting. If we are, then we need a complete overhaul of our government! Republican and dems alike!

when the war began 2/3 of the people thought that there were wmd and the iraquis were our greatest threat

it is a true leaders duty to take responsibility for his initiative to get us into this war, not to pawn it off onto the voters and congress. that is what leaders do. i guess he can just sit back and rely on the voters and congress to get us out of it. not quite leadership imo though. im sure it will all be over and done with by the conclusion of next administrations term. how convinient

please, please, please, lets just not press on with HIS plan to send man to mars.

priorities.

augustashark
03-02-2006, 12:19 AM
A true leader is someone that does not make decisions by what the polls say, i.e. Clinton!

You know, sometimes I think that no matter how hard I try to change minds about this war or GW in general, I get nowhere. The fact is this I believe in this war and in GW and you do not, but you know what, debate is always a good thing. As long as I respect you and your views (even though they differ) and you respect mine, then we can always have a foundation where we can debate and try to make this a better country!

tony hipchest
03-02-2006, 09:29 AM
ok. do you believe in GW's plan to send man to mars?

do you believe in him declaring the war over 3 years ago practicly robbing our troops who go over and fight today of veteran status?

being that i started this thread singing the praises of our military and war machine and our air force being the most superior force in the world i cant see how it looks like im opposed to war. i believe in cars but i dont believe in drunk drivers who kill people. i believe in fighting a war but not if were gonna try to do it on horseback. i believe in a strategic plan where our soldiers arent turned into police officers. i believe gas should be about 90 cents a gallon. i believe in being prepared for future conflicts. i used to believe in war being good for the economy. not no more.

augustashark
03-02-2006, 12:05 PM
ok. do you believe in GW's plan to send man to mars?

do you believe in him declaring the war over 3 years ago practicly robbing our troops who go over and fight today of veteran status?

being that i started this thread singing the praises of our military and war machine and our air force being the most superior force in the world i cant see how it looks like im opposed to war. i believe in cars but i dont believe in drunk drivers who kill people. i believe in fighting a war but not if were gonna try to do it on horseback. i believe in a strategic plan where our soldiers arent turned into police officers. i believe gas should be about 90 cents a gallon. i believe in being prepared for future conflicts. i used to believe in war being good for the economy. not no more.


Even thinking about going to mars is a mistake right now!

Are you not opposed to the war? If you are not, then my mistake.

Your cars example is alittle off! Listen Tony, it is very hard to have a strategic plan when your fighting people who don't care if they die or if anyone around them die! Our soldiers care more for the man next to them than they do about themselves, but they don't want to die either! Strapping explosives on your body and running into a group of people is not strategic. We still have soldiers around the world that are "police officers".

3 to be 4
03-02-2006, 07:47 PM
By your post you supported GW once. I don't want to get into a big spat here, but you are a dem and no matter what GW does you are going to jump to dispute. It's your right to dispute anything that he does, but remember he did get re-elected.

that didnt even make sense. If I supported him once, where do you get that no matter what he does because hes a Republican im not going to support him? If I supported him before???
And as far as your comment "but remember, he did get re-elected"...............
So??????????? what does that have to do with anything? Oh, ok, he got re-elected, lets support everything he does now. Clinton got re-elected, should I have supported his getting BJ's from Monica???

augustashark
03-02-2006, 11:42 PM
that didnt even make sense. If I supported him once, where do you get that no matter what he does because hes a Republican im not going to support him? If I supported him before???
And as far as your comment "but remember, he did get re-elected"...............
So??????????? what does that have to do with anything? Oh, ok, he got re-elected, lets support everything he does now. Clinton got re-elected, should I have supported his getting BJ's from Monica???


You used the line in your post "I just listed all the times i've supported him", but in your post you only pointed out one time where you supported him! I don't think that is "all the times", you should have listed more then one time to support your line of "all the times"!

I'm not saying that because he got re-elected that you need to support everything he does. What I am saying is a whole lot of people out there do support him, hence him being re-elected!

3 to be 4
03-03-2006, 01:13 AM
You used the line in your post "I just listed all the times i've supported him", but in your post you only pointed out one time where you supported him! I don't think that is "all the times", you should have listed more then one time to support your line of "all the times"!

I'm not saying that because he got re-elected that you need to support everything he does. What I am saying is a whole lot of people out there do support him, hence him being re-elected!

ok, a whole lot of people supported him. Again...So???. i cant be against the war then?

i supported the things he said he going to do after 9/11. I support his stance on abortion.
quite frankly i dont support much else because basically i think hes been a disaster as a President. His "economic policy", if he has one, sucks. And he has screwed us up with this war. But once again, why does this matter? If frickin FDR was the President and handled the war this way id feel the same. LBJ was a DEmocrat and he screwed up Vietnam. this isnt about party. Are you a REbublican? if so, i could you support him just because hes a REpublican. there are a lot of GOP toadies out there, like Rush, Hannity, and Laura Ingraham, who'll say his farts smell good just because hes a Republican.

by the way, does anyone out there listen to Jay Severin? i hear he has gone national. I used to listen to him up in Boston. A right winger whose show i loved because the guy is so funny and will say so if a Repub screws up.