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View Full Version : some people thought Dick LeBeau got a free pass...


tony hipchest
09-19-2010, 10:32 PM
...because of his "Godlike" status in pittsburgh, and wasnt held accountable for the steelers dropping to 5th in defense last year, or the team missing the playoffs.

of course these people were arians apologists who thought bruce was treated unfairly when the rooneys had his head on the chopping block and we were uncertain whether he would be fired or not.

i LMAO@ these people.

once again the rooneys prove they are on point with their assessment, and dick lebeau proves that he is not only worthy of the HOF as a player, but as a coach.

lionslicer
09-19-2010, 10:38 PM
I believe it was partially his fault for the 5 straight games we lost. He wasn't making necesary adjustments. I'm sure he took responsibility of this to the players, coaches and owners. I don't believe he should be fired. In 2006 his defense didn't play up to par either. You can't be perfect all the time.

OX1947
09-19-2010, 10:44 PM
I guess it was Lebeau's fault that Burnett dropped the ball that was right into his arms in the Oakland game last year that would have iced the game. It was also Lebeau's fault Farrior got juked out of his underwear when Ray Rice ran that 500 yard run that would have ended the game in Baltimore in Baltimore. And it was also Lebeau's fault that Big ben couldnt move the offense on Cleveland for 60 min.

Last year was like watching a nightmare you think is real. And then you wake up and its 2010 now. So there you go, last year was a nightmare and it had nothing to do with Lebeau and everything to do with losing two of the most important players on our defense and their back ups not executing the minimal things like catching balls thrown to them and making tackles.....

steelerchad
09-19-2010, 10:44 PM
I believe it was partially his fault for the 5 straight games we lost. He wasn't making necesary adjustments. I'm sure he took responsibility of this to the players, coaches and owners. I don't believe he should be fired. In 2006 his defense didn't play up to par either. You can't be perfect all the time.


True. Nobody's perfect, but I tend to think last year's lapse was more due to loss of personnel. Mainly Troy and Smith. With these 2 back we are stuffing the run again and getting TO's.

lionslicer
09-19-2010, 10:48 PM
True. Nobody's perfect, but I tend to think last year's lapse was more due to loss of personnel. Mainly Troy and Smith. With these 2 back we are stuffing the run again and getting TO's.

I think its unfair to say that, because then you say his great defense play is only becuase of players and not his mind.
If you put everything on the coach, it isn't fair, but you also can't put everything on player mistakes because then the coaches don't matter, there's a middle ground people should appreciate, but if you don't take the time to really understand football, you'll never understand this.

tony hipchest
09-19-2010, 10:50 PM
True. Nobody's perfect, but I tend to think last year's lapse was more due to loss of personnel. Mainly Troy and Smith. With these 2 back we are stuffing the run again and getting TO's.

EXACTLY!

but some people said that no 2 players should be THAT important to a defensive unit and that lebeau shouldve been able to scheme his way around their absence. :doh:

(as if any 2nd or 3rd stringer can replace troy and aaron) :dang:

lionslicer
09-19-2010, 10:51 PM
EXACTLY!

but some people said that no 2 players should be THAT important to a defensive unit and that lebeau shouldve been able to scheme his way around their absence. :doh:

(as if any 2nd or 3rd stringer can replace troy and aaron) :dang:

Then every coach who's had great players play for them aren't really great coaches, they are just hacks and only the players deserve credit.

SteelersinCA
09-19-2010, 10:55 PM
Troy helps

steelerchad
09-19-2010, 11:02 PM
Then every coach who's had great players play for them aren't really great coaches, they are just hacks and only the players deserve credit.

I think we can all reasonably agree that it takes a great coach to gameplan and great players to execute it. Without both of these, you will probably fail.

Not too appreciative of the backhanded insult about football IQ. I don't claim to know more than the coaches like some others who post around here. If I did, I'd be trying to make half a mil or better doing it myself. But, I think my knowledge is better than average.

lionslicer
09-19-2010, 11:04 PM
I think we can all reasonably agree that it takes a great coach to gameplan and great players to execute it. Without both of these, you will probably fail.

Not too appreciative of the backhanded insult about football IQ. I don't claim to know more than the coaches like some others who post around here. If I did, I'd be trying to make half a mil or better doing it myself. But, I think my knowledge is better than average.

I'm not insulting anyone, I'm trying to put consistancy into a lot of peoples arguements. It really bothers me when people argue about something when they are wrong or they don't back up their claims with FACTS. You can't just put opinions out there with out some bulk of information.

lionslicer
09-19-2010, 11:06 PM
PS: its also unfair that people say it isn't Lebeaus fault the defense sucks without Troy, but when Ben isn't in the game, the lack of offense is all Arians fault

cubanstogie
09-19-2010, 11:10 PM
PS: its also unfair that people say it isn't Lebeaus fault the defense sucks without Troy, but when Ben isn't in the game, the lack of offense is all Arians fault

I agree completely. Problem is most of the Arians bashers have been saying this for years. Even after a SB win these people weren't happy. You would think 2 wins with shaky line and young qb, and one over the hill qb these people would be thankful Arians didn't place these guys in postion to have to win, or lose game.

SteelKnight
09-19-2010, 11:24 PM
...because of his "Godlike" status in pittsburgh, and wasnt held accountable for the steelers dropping to 5th in defense last year, or the team missing the playoffs.

of course these people were arians apologists who thought bruce was treated unfairly when the rooneys had his head on the chopping block and we were uncertain whether he would be fired or not.

i LMAO@ these people.

once again the rooneys prove they are on point with their assessment, and dick lebeau proves that he is not only worthy of the HOF as a player, but as a coach.

You make this post but I think it is a bit dramatic. I don't think anyone called for Lebeau to be fired. I doubt many blamed Lebeau.

Saying the defense held their own last year (players) is entirely different. You can play well and then not come through at big times...that's what they did 5 times last year.

We don't want to hear "well if the offense played better we wouldn't have been in this position in the first place". The key thing is not just playing decently overall but coming through big at key times.

If a kicker makes 5 kicks then misses the 15 yarder to win the game, I really don't want to hear about how good he was earlier, how we should have made touchdowns, how if the defense hadn't let them score on the previous drive, he wouldn't have had to attempt his 6th kick...how he ranks among kickers in the league...how good his special teams coach is...and if he misses that 15 yard kick 5 times in one season...well...

We, as Steeler fans, all love our defense but the pass defense was not stellar without Troy (plus other Cleveland game) where they would have ranked 25th and their total defense would have ranked 15th. It is a testament to how good Troy is that how they played with him moved them from 15th to 5th...but they still choked 5 times. This means that 5 times towards the end, we said if the Steelers can just stop them on this drive we win...and they didn't. Simple.

This year will be different.

tony hipchest
09-19-2010, 11:27 PM
PS: its also unfair that people say it isn't Lebeaus fault the defense sucks without Troy, but when Ben isn't in the game, the lack of offense is all Arians faultanyone who says its all arians fault that the steelers are 2-0 with an offense operating with a 4th string qb and 2nd string OL isnt paying attention.

bruce has been fabulous. removing his brain from the equasion and operating with typical, generic, conventional wisdom has done wonders in winning us games when everybody thought we would lose.

dick lebeau and his unit said his team would carry the load when ben was out.

arians and his unit failed to do so last year.

it is what it is. :noidea:

thats why lebeaus job is secure and he is a hall of famer. that is also why arians is in a "lame duck" year playing for a new contract.

SteelKnight
09-19-2010, 11:39 PM
thats why lebeaus job is secure and he is a hall of famer. that is also why arians is in a "lame duck" year playing for a new contract.

I don't see why it has to be Arians vs Lebeau. That's not a fair match up. We all think Lebeau is great.

Some of us also like the work Arians did with Manning and the work he has done in Ben's development despite never having an offensive line which could pass or run block.

Lebeau is a legend. Why compare?

lionslicer
09-19-2010, 11:42 PM
anyone who says its all arians fault that the steelers are 2-0 with an offense operating with a 4th string qb and 2nd string OL isnt paying attention.

bruce has been fabulous. removing his brain from the equasion and operating with typical, generic, conventional wisdom has done wonders in winning us games when everybody thought we would lose.

dick lebeau and his unit said his team would carry the load when ben was out.

arians and his unit failed to do so last year.

it is what it is. :noidea:

thats why lebeaus job is secure and he is a hall of famer. that is also why arians is in a "lame duck" year playing for a new contract.


You totally made points that didn't have anything to due with my post... I said its unfair people blame the offenses bad play soley on Arians, meaning players dropping balls and offensive linement playing bad is HIS fault, but when Troy isn't in the game and the defense is bad, its no ones fault, its just troys fault for being injured.

You are being bias for Lebeau, so are many people on this board. Again, I'm not defending arians, I'm not putting my own opinions in my posts, I'm giving you consistancy which most of what you say lacks.

Shea
09-19-2010, 11:50 PM
Then every coach who's had great players play for them aren't really great coaches, they are just hacks and only the players deserve credit.

Huh?

So I guess I can book that flight to the Burgh and have LeBeau take out Aaron or Troy and replace them with me.

Great coaches afterall would find a way to win with me in the line-up.

What number should I be? :scratchchin:

lionslicer
09-19-2010, 11:59 PM
Huh?

So I guess I can book that flight to the Burgh and have LeBeau take out Aaron or Troy and replace them with me.

Great coaches afterall would find a way to win with me in the line-up.

What number should I be? :scratchchin:

... Yes they would, and wouldn't put you it. Point I was making is that if one player makes the team great, and if they aren't there, the team sucks and wont win, then the coaches have no effect on the team. I don't believe that, but apparently its what people think of LeBeau. You have a double standard. LeBeau has no faults, but if one player leaves the field, its that players fault the team sucks. So you are contradicting yourself. You can't lose 5 straight games against terrible teams because of 1 player.

Shea
09-20-2010, 12:06 AM
It wasn't just one player but two. The top two arguably at their respective positions in the NFL. That's huge!

LeBeau wasn't the problem last year and he won't be the problem in any other year as long as he's coaching.

Shea
09-20-2010, 12:09 AM
BTW Tony .... why are you posting and starting threads?

Shouldn't you be busy reading all our PM's?

tony hipchest
09-20-2010, 12:12 AM
I doubt many blamed Lebeau.

.

welcome to the board, Mr. April 2010. :hatsoff:

seriously... how long have you been reading here? i assume you arent too familiar with the previous admin and their brigade. :coffee:

lionslicer
09-20-2010, 12:17 AM
It wasn't just one player but two. The top two arguably at their respective positions in the NFL. That's huge!

LeBeau wasn't the problem last year and he won't be the problem in any other year as long as he's coaching.

Hampton is argueably the best nose tackle, and by many expects the nose tackle in a 3-4 is the most important position, and he's missed many games. Hoke isn't consistant when he's in, he gets tired, he leaves, we have no nose tackle, he makes due with the many 3-4 defensive ends and even put bigger line backers in at the defensive end spot. He can do it, just for 5 games last year he had some inconsistancy.

We had a top defence in 2007, troy was only in 11 games, and he didn't have any interceptions. And when he was gone, we didn't lose more games. That same year, Smith missed the same games,ironically only played 11 games also, the defense played fine.
He also didn't play well because he had a bad knee injury at the begining of the year and was constantly subbed, so he wasn't as much of a threat as he normally is.

tony hipchest
09-20-2010, 12:28 AM
Hoke isn't consistant when he's in, he gets tired, he leaves, we have no nose tackle, .

:rolleyes: whatever.

i really couldnt make much sense out of anything else you potsed. :noidea:

Shea
09-20-2010, 12:28 AM
Seriously Lion, I'm willing to head out there. Put me in.

With injuries there isn't any choice in the matter afterall.

I just hope the pads will protect my boobers.

But a great coach will make me a HOF'er. :tt02:

mikegrimey
09-20-2010, 12:31 AM
Hampton is argueably the best nose tackle, and by many expects the nose tackle in a 3-4 is the most important position, and he's missed many games. Hoke isn't consistant when he's in, he gets tired, he leaves, we have no nose tackle, he makes due with the many 3-4 defensive ends and even put bigger line backers in at the defensive end spot. He can do it, just for 5 games last year he had some inconsistancy.

We had a top defence in 2007, troy was only in 11 games, and he didn't have any interceptions. And when he was gone, we didn't lose more games. That same year, Smith missed the same games,ironically only played 11 games also, the defense played fine.
He also didn't play well because he had a bad knee injury at the begining of the year and was constantly subbed, so he wasn't as much of a threat as he normally is.


Did you forget Fred Taylor running apeshit all over us in December? Our defense definitely slipped in the end of 07.

lionslicer
09-20-2010, 12:38 AM
:rolleyes: whatever.

i really couldnt make much sense out of anything else you potsed. :noidea:

Wow really??? I made it pretty clear, do I have to speak slower for you?

Troy missed a lot of games in 2007 (5 and 9/10ths)
In the games he was in, he wasn't a factor
Aaron smith missed a lot of games, (6 and a half)
he had a knee injury, he was subbed for a lot when he did play
2 players that missed last year that you said caused the steelers losses
But they missed in 2007, and lebeau made the adjustments to make it work

2009 was just an off year for LeBeau, both Troy and Smith played in 2006, but our defense struggled. Mainly because of Turnovers by the offense, but the offense sucked in 2008 too.

LeBeau's lack of adjustments and soft play calling is what cost the 5 games last year, him and Arians deserve blame, but he shouldn't be excused the blame. And Arians doesn't deserve all the blame for this years lack of offense and play calling last year because the defense and offensive line was lackluster. He deserves some blame for his calls, and LeBeau deserves a share for his calls.

MACH1
09-20-2010, 01:11 AM
You totally made points that didn't have anything to due with my post... I said its unfair people blame the offenses bad play soley on Arians, meaning players dropping balls and offensive linement playing bad is HIS fault, but when Troy isn't in the game and the defense is bad, its no ones fault, its just troys fault for being injured.

You are being bias for Lebeau, so are many people on this board. Again, I'm not defending arians, I'm not putting my own opinions in my posts, I'm giving you consistancy which most of what you say lacks.

Remind me why it's not arians fault coming out guns blazing in a tropical ice storm, advertising pass on third and one with a 5 wide empty backfield.

I know, I know its the players fault for not executing. :doh:

SteelCityMom
09-20-2010, 01:17 AM
You're all a bunch of haters. :flap:

tony hipchest
09-20-2010, 01:38 AM
Wow really??? I made it pretty clear, do I have to speak slower for you?
.yes really.

please type slower.
i normaly dont go the whole "spelling police" route, but your post has so many spelling and gramatical errors i cant imagine how anyone knows what the hell you are talking about

Hampton is argueably :doh: the best nose tackle, and by many expects:huh: the nose tackle in a 3-4 is the most important position, and he's missed many games. Hoke isn't consistant when he's in, he gets tired, he leaves, we have no nose tackle, :tap: he makes due with the many 3-4 defensive ends and even put bigger line backers in at the defensive end spot. He can do it, just for 5 games last year he had some inconsistancy. :wtf:

We had a top defence :banging: in 2007, troy was only in 11 games, and he didn't have any interceptions. And when he was gone, we didn't lose more games. That same year, Smith missed the same games,ironically only played 11 games also, the defense played fine. :willy:
He also didn't play well because he had a bad knee injury at the begining of the year and was constantly subbed, so he wasn't as much of a threat as he normally is. :huh:

seriously dude.... wtf did you say just?:toofunny:

SteelKnight
09-20-2010, 02:23 AM
welcome to the board, Mr. April 2010. :hatsoff:


Oh thanks. I wasn't aware that I had won that award. I heard a rumor but I thought it was just flattery.

I don't like the technique you are using with Lion ...totally ignoring his valid points. That kind of arguing just wastes time.

He is pointing out that you can't give Arians no QB (this year) and no O-line that can pass or run block (previous 3 seasons), and say he should have to adapt and if he doesn't it is his fault and he should be fired yet at the same time be understanding when Lebeau has limited tools (Troy and Smith out).

That makes sense. I disagree with some of the other stuff but that is a valid point.

Arians does have some flaws.
-He said he HAD to get tricky because of the run blocking and the inability of the team to get first downs on the ground. Of course he would rather run on 3rd and 1.

-He needs to work on his Red Zone plays. This is something that can be corrected. He shouldn't be fired for this. In fact, Tomlin could take over play calling in the Red Zone if he wanted to. I don't think he has to but he should work harder to make sure the team has plays they can execute.

-He didn't run enough screens last year but this year he looks to be cool with screens so it should be great when Ben comes back.

Tomlin needs to take the blame too. How they can get stopped on 1st and 5 from the 7 is beyond me. I would have told the OC he has 4 plays to get 5 yards. I would have put Redman in there and run 4 times. If they would have gotten to the 2, they had a fresh set of downs. The only important thing was not to go backwards. They choked.

MikeHaullace
09-20-2010, 02:41 AM
Blame him all you want. I guarantee he is 100% accountable to HIS defense and will have no problem pointing out where he's gone wrong. He would then bend you over, drop you with : "... which is greatly out-weighed by these two Super Bowl rings." as he proceeds to pound you repeatedly with his Championship Fist Of Fury.

Be happy to have that sort of consistency on the defensive side of the ball. Remember... For years, while defensively consistent mind you, we lacked consistency at the QB position. Let's start that trip down memory lane at Mark Malone. Bubby Brister, if you want to pick up where I did as a Steelers fan. Today's defense is winning games with a 3rd string QB.

Dick LeBeau's defenses are better than *any* defenses I ever saw under Capers or Lewis.

That's a fact, jack. :tt03:

Stop bitchin'.