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View Full Version : Collective Bargaining Agreement..How it affects the Steelers


dcperrong
03-05-2006, 06:53 PM
SO what is going to be the main fallout if this stuff doesnt get done for the Steelers?

BlitzburghRockCity
03-05-2006, 07:06 PM
I edit'd the title of your thread so members know we're talking about the Steelers in this thread :smile:

The Steelers have already released Tommy and Willie Williams to make sure they are under the cap..they continue to renegoiate contracts with other players to make more room. What it means other than that is a wait and see now. How much will Hope and El be willing to take to come back, how much of a signing bonus will it take. In the future it means the teams like the Cowboys, the Skins, the Raiders, the Dolphins, all the big market teams will eat up all the good players while all the successful teams even though they are small market ones like the steelers, indy, NE, bengals, etc..will have a MUCH harder time signing players becuz we just cant afford to give them as much as somebody else. Players will want to come play of us because we're a successful team..but in this day and age with young players.. money talks !

Livinginthe past
03-05-2006, 07:31 PM
I edit'd the title of your thread so members know we're talking about the Steelers in this thread :smile:

The Steelers have already released Tommy and Willie Williams to make sure they are under the cap..they continue to renegoiate contracts with other players to make more room. What it means other than that is a wait and see now. How much will Hope and El be willing to take to come back, how much of a signing bonus will it take. In the future it means the teams like the Cowboys, the Skins, the Raiders, the Dolphins, all the big market teams will eat up all the good players while all the successful teams even though they are small market ones like the steelers, indy, NE, bengals, etc..will have a MUCH harder time signing players becuz we just cant afford to give them as much as somebody else. Players will want to come play of us because we're a successful team..but in this day and age with young players.. money talks !

I dont know. Is New England classed as small market?

They were right near the top of every category in that Forbes article a while back.

I am pretty sure that Robert Kraft is against the revenue sharing aspect of the proposed CBA.

NM

dcperrong
03-05-2006, 07:49 PM
Yea they showed Kraft storming out of some meeting. what a jerk.

tony hipchest
03-05-2006, 08:38 PM
noone has more to gain by NOT sharing than the patriots. redskins have pretty much operated around the cap since dan snyder has taken over and it hasnt translated into a championship. jerry jones could write all the checks he wants and that wouldnt necessarily lead them to the promised land. kraft has won 3 times within the parameters of the cap and would freeley spend to keep his team up front for the remainder of the bilechick/brady era. you think he would let vinatieri go in an uncapped system? after years of the redsox playing 2nd fiddle to the yankees nothing would please the boston market more than to dominate in another sport. this would give kraft the ability to raise ticket prices. extra money he would be able to spend after next year would lead to increased revenues in the long run. he knows this.

these 9 richest owners are preparing for the worst. budgeting that extra money they may have to share. if they dont have to share it they (if smart and dedicated to winning) they will gladly drop it into their own team to try and gain a competitive edge. patriots right now already have the competitive edge of the continuity and ability to recruit players on the cheap.

HburgXL06
03-05-2006, 08:44 PM
If the elimination of a salary cap means that big teams can just buy up all the good players than I am in no way supportive of that. It eliminates any competitiveness and the NFL will descend into baseball where the same teams win year after year. What does the rest have to do with it? I'm still trying to understand the sharing of profits. If someone can explain it to me I would be very grateful. Peace.

BuFu

tony hipchest
03-05-2006, 09:00 PM
If the elimination of a salary cap means that big teams can just buy up all the good players than I am in no way supportive of that. It eliminates any competitiveness and the NFL will descend into baseball where the same teams win year after year. What does the rest have to do with it? I'm still trying to understand the sharing of profits. If someone can explain it to me I would be very grateful. Peace.

BuFu in a nutshell-

dan snyder makes more $$$ by naming the redskins stadium "fed ex field". this money isnt shared with all the other teams like tv revenue and ticket sales are.

on the other hand, his stadium has atleast 15,000 more seats than indiannapolis. all the teams ticket sales $$$ are put into a pool and divided equally.

we saw how steeler games got some of the highest ratings this year. a steeler game is much more likely to be watched than a cardinals game, however all tv revenue $$$$ is put into a pot and divided equally. the richest owners dont want to put the extra money they make like advertizing dollars into this pot.

kind of like the owner of the yankees has a deal with cable tv to broadcast yankees games. since pirate games arent in such high demand (people dont pay to see them on tv). the yankees are a richer club than the pirates. a-rod, jeter, and riviera make about as much money as the whole pirates roster.

Atlanta Dan
03-05-2006, 09:11 PM
Don't assume that when and if the CBA negotiations finally expire the players will placidly wait to play out 2006 and then, in an "uncapped" 2007, figure they will cash in.

Three groups of players are getting major financial hits by no renewal of the CBA: this year's crop of FAs, who will be getting bonuses that can be amortized over less time within a lower cap; top draft choices in this year's draft; and, since the FA years of service requirement goes from 4 to 6 years in 2007 with no new CBA, FAs who will have 4 or 5 years of service but not be eligible for FA status in 2007. What brought Upshaw back to the bargaining table was screaming by those players and their agents.

Gene Upshaw has been attending recent press conferences with his anti-trust lawyer.
What you will next probably see is a move to decertify the NFLPA as the players' union, followed by an anti-trust suit that, among other matters, would challenge the legality of the draft. At that point, you also get the NCAA having a stake in this, since Maurice Clarett's atttempt to leave Ohio State before he played 3 years of college ball was defeated because the CBA between the NFLPA and NFL, which requires the 3 years in college, defeated the argument that keeping Clarett from leaving for the NFL whenever he wanted was illegal. That defense against early departures by college players dies with the death of the CBA.

So, no new CBA could mean: no draft and college football facing the same mess college basketball currently faces with early departures.

A CBA will get done before this gets to the courts or the NFL as we know it will be done. The investments of Jerry Jones, Danny Snyder, and Bob Kraft will not maintain their current value if the NFL loses an anti-trust suit and the draft expires, so no CBA is not an unmixed blessing to them either.

hardwork
03-05-2006, 09:21 PM
This wouldn't hurt NE, Blitz. You don't want to compete against Kraft in an open market. This guy put up their new stadium with nothing but private money. How many other owners have done that?

The bottom line is that this will hurt professional football. Simple as that.

tony hipchest
03-05-2006, 09:34 PM
Don't assume that when and if the CBA negotiations finally expire the players will placidly wait to play out 2006 and then, in an "uncapped" 2007, figure they will cash in.



great point atl. dan. this deal will really only benefit the pro bowlers and superstars. the impression is given that ALL players will benefit. maybe there would be a little bump in the vet minimum or something, but most players would be unaffected. the extra 10 mil or so added to the cap would essentially be spent on players like ben when it came to offering him a $110 million contract vs. someone else who offers him $100 mil.

thanks for helping keep us up to speed on alot of these issues.

tony hipchest
03-05-2006, 09:43 PM
This wouldn't hurt NE, Blitz. You don't want to compete against Kraft in an open market. This guy put up their new stadium with nothing but private money. How many other owners have done that?

The bottom line is that this will hurt professional football. Simple as that.:iagree:

:thmbdown: to kraft being able to spend freely. all kraft would have to do is keep adding 6,7,and 8 blades to his razors to field a winning team. all the rooneys really own is the steelers.

advantage: r. kraft.

HburgXL06
03-05-2006, 10:25 PM
in a nutshell-

dan snyder makes more $$$ by naming the redskins stadium "fed ex field". this money isnt shared with all the other teams like tv revenue and ticket sales are.

on the other hand, his stadium has atleast 15,000 more seats than indiannapolis. all the teams ticket sales $$$ are put into a pool and divided equally.

we saw how steeler games got some of the highest ratings this year. a steeler game is much more likely to be watched than a cardinals game, however all tv revenue $$$$ is put into a pot and divided equally. the richest owners dont want to put the extra money they make like advertizing dollars into this pot.

kind of like the owner of the yankees has a deal with cable tv to broadcast yankees games. since pirate games arent in such high demand (people dont pay to see them on tv). the yankees are a richer club than the pirates. a-rod, jeter, and riviera make about as much money as the whole pirates roster.

So in this argument which way is which? It confuses me to no end and I feel like an idiot trying to understand it. Also, what does "Collective Bargaining Agreement" mean? If I sound like an idiot I'm sorry. I just never knew the inner workings of football or even heard about them until this past year. Thanks.

BuFu

hardwork
03-05-2006, 10:30 PM
:iagree:

:thmbdown: to kraft being able to spend freely. all kraft would have to do is keep adding 6,7,and 8 blades to his razors to field a winning team. all the rooneys really own is the steelers.

advantage: r. kraft.



You're not under the impression that Kraft owns Gillette are you?

tony hipchest
03-05-2006, 10:35 PM
You're not under the impression that Kraft owns Gillette are you?
i guess i was. maybe im thinking of the past owner and his vaccuums. what is krafts buisiness? maybe its proctor and gamble that owns gillette. actually no, im pretty sure theyre their own publicly traded company.

hardwork
03-05-2006, 10:43 PM
i guess i was. maybe im thinking of the past owner and his vaccuums. what is krafts buisiness? maybe its proctor and gamble that owns gillette. actually no, im pretty sure theyre their own publicly traded company.

Yeah, Procter & Gamble owns Gillette. I don't believe the Krafts every had anything to do with Gillette. But you're right we had a shaving guy who owned the team for a year or so. I think he was the CEO or perhaps CEO/owner of Remington or some other electric razor company. But Gillette did buy the nameing rights to the stadium before Procter & Gamble took them over.

tony hipchest
03-05-2006, 11:01 PM
Yeah, Procter & Gamble owns Gillette. I don't believe the Krafts every had anything to do with Gillette. But you're right we had a shaving guy who owned the team for a year or so. I think he was the CEO or perhaps CEO/owner of Remington or some other electric razor company. But Gillette did buy the nameing rights to the stadium before Procter & Gamble took them over.

it was remington. i think his last name starts with an 'm'. he didnt do too much for the team. i remember his corny vaccuum commercials. oreck maybe. i now remember p&g buying out gillette. it was when i dabbled in the stock market and i wished i owned gillette at the time.

BlitzburghRockCity
03-05-2006, 11:43 PM
I dont know. Is New England classed as small market?

They were right near the top of every category in that Forbes article a while back.

I am pretty sure that Robert Kraft is against the revenue sharing aspect of the proposed CBA.

NM


The Steelers are too, right up there with the best of them.. but teams like us and the Pats are careful with their money no matter how much they actually bring in..as opposed to the Daniel Snyders of the NFL who just spend money for the sake of spending it. Our cities could be considered small market I would imagine but we've definately made more headway towards the big boys in recent years.

Livinginthe past
03-06-2006, 02:07 AM
it was remington. i think his last name starts with an 'm'. he didnt do too much for the team. i remember his corny vaccuum commercials. oreck maybe. i now remember p&g buying out gillette. it was when i dabbled in the stock market and i wished i owned gillette at the time.

The man in question was the perma-tanned Victor Kiam.

Im sure he used to be on the adverts for the razors - looked like a used car salesman from what I remember.

"I loved the company so much - I bought the company" was his catchphrase.

NM

Livinginthe past
03-06-2006, 02:13 AM
So in this argument which way is which? It confuses me to no end and I feel like an idiot trying to understand it. Also, what does "Collective Bargaining Agreement" mean? If I sound like an idiot I'm sorry. I just never knew the inner workings of football or even heard about them until this past year. Thanks.

BuFu

Here ya go.

http://www.patsfans.com/miguel/capsources.html

This is an old page that has been run by a guy who does alot of work for patfans.com - it includes a definition at the bottom and explains what the CBA is and various different scenarios.

Another link

http://www.andrewsstarspage.com/CBA/10-3-04cba2.htm

Very basically, it is an agreement made between the NFL, the players (through the players union), and the team owners.

It covers all issues from lengths of rookie contracts to minimum vet salaries - the idea is to try and keep the NFL competitive, therefore enjoyable for the viewer...therefore profitable for the NFL, the players and the team owners.

NM

OX1947
03-06-2006, 03:44 AM
Looking at the senerio, it looks like the NFL wants to have a deal. They wouldnt have delayed it twice if they didnt want something to be done. I have always had the feeling they would make a deal one way or the other. A deal being done is HUGE for the Steelers. They are under the cap right now without even restructuring Okobi and Hartings contracts. So lets just say that the steelers are able to finish those two and get 4 million more off the books. If a deal is done, the cap may go up to 115 million. That would put us at 25 million under the cap.

I havent seen this reiterated so unless I am confused or wrong about the numbers, how the heck are we not going to be able to sign everyone. I know other teams will have more money to throw around as well but history has told all Steeler players that when the steelers give contracts out, 90% of them see all of it until the end of the contract. I think this is why El stated a week ago that he wouldnt let a million dollars set him apart from pittsburgh. Because maybe El sees that getting a 6 year 18 million contract from pitt as apose to a 6 year 24 million from somewhere else, with the way he is used in Pitt, he does take a chance going somewhere else and never seeing the last 2 or 3 years of that contract. However in pitt, if he is productive, the steelers always pay. And if they keep running this offense the way they are, he will always stay productive if he doesnt get injuried.

Hope is another guy who can really set himself apart from others. He knows that Troy the best SS in the league, he knows that Troy allows him to roam the secondary easier then he would with anyone else. Does he also want to take a chance and go somewhere where if he isnt playing a high level of ball, will he see the entire contract.

Keisel I think is the only guy out of the free agents that can go either way. He can go to cleveland and start right away and get big money. The great thing about pass rushers is it doesnt matter the sceme or defensive set, a pass rusher can flurish anywhere if he can rush the QB. Its an interesting time for the Steelers, I think if a deal is done, I truly believe we at least keep 2/3 of our big 3 free agents.

Its been so much fun being the champion in the off season. It allows us as fans to fantaize about the future. With out QB being as young as he is and already winning a ring, it adds even more to it. There are so many senerios that could happen, but here is my ultimate hope mixed in with a realistic view going into the 2006 season:

-El takes the money and goes home, ultimatly leaving for the money playing at home, cant blame him if he does.
-Sign Hope
-Sign Keisel
-Restructure Kimo, plays one more year
-Restructure Hartings and Okobi, Hartings plays one more year and Okobi takes over in 2007
-Draft Bobby Carpenter with 32nd pick
-Trade the 3 comp picks for a mid second pick and get Manny Lawson
-Draft Martin Nance with the 64th pick

Carpenter takes over Farriors spot in 2 years, Lawson takes Porters in 2 years, our linebacker factory continues.

Nance catches TD's and has a history with Ben. Love him as a player and love his work ethic. Tore his knee up in 2004 and came back and caught 14tds. Nance and Ward, 1 and 2 eventually with cedrick as the slot reciever. Wilson was brought to Pitt to replace EL, not Plax, so if you have been paying attention, the steelers will be looking for a big time reciever and im pretty positive if Nance is lurking in the late 2nd, Big Ben will suggest getting his old buddy.

If this is close to the future senerio, our chances of being a dominant team are very high and I really see the Steelers not only winning but destroying teams for a while.....

WyomingCowgirlBarbie
03-06-2006, 10:22 AM
Have there been more stories about brett going to the browns? Like in the last 2 weeks? Did I miss something? I haven't seen any stories from the Browns camp saying they were looking at Brett. Just Ed. I think I will go to their site and search.

hardwork
03-06-2006, 12:59 PM
The man in question was the perma-tanned Victor Kiam.

Im sure he used to be on the adverts for the razors - looked like a used car salesman from what I remember.

"I loved the company so much - I bought the company" was his catchphrase.

NM


That's the guy. Victor "I loved it so much, I bought the company" Kiam. However, it wasn't out of love that he bought the Patriots.

Atlanta Dan
03-06-2006, 05:33 PM
It now looks like a deal will get done (but we have heard that before over the last several days). Washington Post, which has been a pretty good source of information for weeks, states Tagliabue will recommend the deal he has worked out with Upshaw at the owners' meeting Tuesday.

Tags may recommend it but the question remains if he can sell at least a portion of the 9 rich owners on the deal. Two big sticking points are what sort of revenue gets counted into the % of revenue that will go to the players and how the richer teams' practice of getting around the salary cap by paying out huge bonuses that are paid in a lump sum but amortized over a number of years can be curbed (aka "cash over cap"). Although those rich owners have been sending out the word they will sue teh league if a revenue sharing model is imposed they do not like, Dan Rooney said several weeks ago if the gang of 9 hangs together they can block any deal, since 24 out of 32 owners must approve any deal.

It will be interesting if a subset of the 9 richest owners go for the deal and a smaller, more arrogant group of less than 9 rich owners (Danny Snyder and Jerry Jones?) votes against the CBA, loses, and then sues.

With regard to Snyder, one rumor is that if the Redskins have to perform a salary dump, Snyder will trade players for draft choices since he will have no concerns about paying new players in a capless 2007.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/03/06/AR2006030600660_pf.html

In closing, I am among those who think no new CBA will be a disaster. For another take, I am linking to Peter King's Monday Morning QB column; King thinks gloom and doom is propoganda by Tagliabue. I disagree, but King has forgotten more about how the NFL operates than I will ever know.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2006/writers/peter_king/03/06/labor/index.html