PDA

View Full Version : "The Flag of Islam will one day fly over the White House"


MACH1
10-06-2010, 10:47 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=agOU2R6MTbg
agOU2R6MTbg

tony hipchest
10-06-2010, 11:36 AM
:shout:- PANIC!!!

MasterOfPuppets
10-06-2010, 04:04 PM
:shout:- PANIC!!!

jewish message board

jew1: i'm starting to get a little worried about this hitler guy. he seems to be getting more popular.

jew2: :shout: PANIC

zulater
10-06-2010, 10:23 PM
http://sheikyermami.com/2010/10/06/us-textbooks-muslims-discovered-america/

Well it should fly over the White House, after all they did discover the country.:chuckle:

Shea
10-06-2010, 10:42 PM
I actually hope it does one day.

Let's reach out and set an example that we are all human beings with differences, yet when you peal away the layers we are all the same.

Ignorance is only going to fuel the hatred, on both sides. Let's begin to end it. Otherwise it's only going to get worse and that will lead to more death and destruction.

It's time to stop and start building a world where children will have a chance, no matter where they're born, and to think to their future and the future of all in order to save them and us.

zulater
10-06-2010, 10:49 PM
Can I puke now?

Shea
10-06-2010, 11:01 PM
Can I puke now?

That there is part of the problem.

Get rid of the hatred and your bias.

You are only adding to the problem instead of looking for a solution.

And you along with too many others are creating the situation that we now find ourselves in.

MattsMe
10-07-2010, 12:29 AM
Let's reach out and set an example that we are all human beings with differences, yet when you peal away the layers we are all the same.

But some of us have boobs.

SteelKnight
10-07-2010, 01:57 AM
That was funny to watch. I'm sure some crazy group will use this in 2012 to say it is really Obama's top secret plan that he is holding out to reveal in his second term.

I hate to say it but it would be nice to keep the President Christian (although he need not be very religious). There are just too many secret things going on. We may one day have a Jewish pres. I believe he would have to be vice Pres first. It will be interesting. I don't remember anyone using Lieberman's religion against him in 2000.

MasterOfPuppets
10-07-2010, 03:07 AM
shea's right... instead of hating the muslims , we should just embrace them and their culture...:rolleyes:

FFr0JtsA_c8

you can't accuse them of being uncivilized, they've got guidelines for a proper beating ..:thumbsup:

Wp3Eam5FX58

they may be on to something here...:scratchchin:

i9cAa6SP79M

ricardisimo
10-07-2010, 03:08 AM
Yes, what we need is more religion in our government.
:puke:

And don't kid yourself MoP... Christians are no better.

MasterOfPuppets
10-07-2010, 04:31 AM
Yes, what we need is more religion in our government.
:puke:

And don't kid yourself MoP... Christians are no better.
to a point i agree..... but christianity has at least somewhat evolved..... i find myself agreeing with this guy

y4mWiqkGy-Y

zulater
10-07-2010, 05:29 AM
That there is part of the problem.

Get rid of the hatred and your bias.

You are only adding to the problem instead of looking for a solution.

And you along with too many others are creating the situation that we now find ourselves in.

How's this shea, I don't want the freaking flag of Christianity ( if there is one) Judaism, Budism or any other religion flying over the White House. I believe in seperation of church and state as prescribed in our constitutution.

and here's another thing shea, get in the moment of the thread, the guy wasn't suggesting the flag of Isam would be flying in unison next to the flags of all the other religions of the world and we'd all have a group hug and sing Kumbaya. This aint a disney movie, Muslim's when in the majority, even the so called moderate Muslims aren't real big on inclusion. The banner of Islam generally flies alone.

Again the thought of the banner lof Islam flying over the White House makes me want to puke.

And the real problem is naive well intended peaceniks like yourselves who bury their head in the sand to the real dangers that lie ahead. Neville Chamberlain reduxe.

zulater
10-07-2010, 05:39 AM
Yes, what we need is more religion in our government.
:puke:

And don't kid yourself MoP... Christians are no better.

Yeah actually they are. Much better in fact. Sure there's still a few brush fires among the cult and you have some situation arise here and there with some yokel inbred fundamentalist who gets carried away and does something unfortunate in the name of his god. But all the worlds other religions combined times 10 don't approach the mayhem currently being created in the world on a daily basis in the name of Allah. Sorry but that's the unfortunate truth.

SteelCityMom
10-07-2010, 09:37 AM
Yeah actually they are. Much better in fact. Sure there's still a few brush fires among the cult and you have some situation arise here and there with some yokel inbred fundamentalist who gets carried away and does something unfortunate in the name of his god. But all the worlds other religions combined times 10 don't approach the mayhem currently being created in the world on a daily basis in the name of Allah. Sorry but that's the unfortunate truth.

I doubt you even looked into the link I provided in the Catholic thread about corrupt missionaries in different nations, who are using force to convert people. Sorry, they aren't any better than the extremist Muslims who use force to convert people. Not in my mind.

At least the moderates side of the argument (from this vid) are rational. And it never sounded like much of the audience agreed with the kooky Muslim guy either. Can't keep picking out the extremists of one religion and saying that is the norm for all of them. It just isn't so.

zulater
10-07-2010, 10:24 AM
I doubt you even looked into the link I provided in the Catholic thread about corrupt missionaries in different nations, who are using force to convert people. Sorry, they aren't any better than the extremist Muslims who use force to convert people. Not in my mind.

At least the moderates side of the argument (from this vid) are rational. And it never sounded like much of the audience agreed with the kooky Muslim guy either. Can't keep picking out the extremists of one religion and saying that is the norm for all of them. It just isn't so.



Yeah I looked at your links and it's unfortunate that those sort of things are still happening . But it's a question of scale SCM. I mean honeastly how can you compare the two when the numbers are so overwhelmingly slanted towards jihadist violence around the world. I guarantee you if you took the atrocities of all the worlds other religions combined, then multiplied by ten it still wouldn't raise a pimple on the ass of the daily vulgarity that Muslim extremism is commiting.

Want an anology, radical Islam is the Philadelphia sports fan of religions. :chuckle:

zulater
10-07-2010, 10:36 AM
http://in.reuters.com/article/idINIndia-51999620101006Saudis charges Filipinos for proselytising

http://nation.ittefaq.com/issues/2010/10/07/news0339.htmForced marriage leads to minor girl's suicide

http://undhimmi.com/2010/10/07/london-tube-driver-planned-terror-training-mission/London tube driver planned terror mission

http://www.crosswalk.com/news/religiontoday/11639154/Muslims Force Expat Christian Teacher to Flee Maldives

http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5jQbSMEnAo51BlcgVVvNJCPDry4Qw?docId=CNG.1e1a9 fce48fee772c40344d3f21d3cc9.341Philippine massacre victims 'begged for mercy'

This is happening every day throughout the Muslim world, hell make that the world at large, every stinking corner, were not talking a remote group of missionary's in East Bum **** plying their idiocy.

SteelersinCA
10-07-2010, 10:43 AM
Damn, this shit reminds me of StfU, it's like the same argument over and over and over again. Did this not all get hashed out in the numerous other threads? Instead on a bajillion Obama threads we have a bajillion Islam threads.

SteelCityMom
10-07-2010, 10:55 AM
Yeah I looked at your links and it's unfortunate that those sort of things are still happening . But it's a question of scale SCM. I mean honeastly how can you compare the two when the numbers are so overwhelmingly slanted towards jihadist violence around the world. I guarantee you if you took the atrocities of all the worlds other religions combined, then multiplied by ten it still wouldn't raise a pimple on the ass of the daily vulgarity that Muslim extremism is commiting.

Want an anology, radical Islam is the Philadelphia sports fan of religions. :chuckle:

You're kidding right? I know that right now, because of war in Afghanistan, that radical Islam is being thrust into the forefront, but didn't you take anything away from the articles I posted on the genocide in Rwanda? How Catholic priests and nuns took direct part in the genocide of a portion of the 500k - 800k Tutsis in the mid 90's?

Corrupt missionaries are still taking part in forced conversions, imprisonment, and sometimes murder, because they are culturally different.

So yes, from what I've read, it raises a lot more than a pimple. And it's only been briefly touched on, but terrorism at the hands of Protestants and Catholics in N. Ireland is long from over. Funny that the long going attacks there were never really labeled as religious terrorism (at least by the majority of medias), it was labeled (and is still labeled) as nationalistic terrorism.

That, in essence, is all any religious terrorism is when you break it down enough. It's extreme nationalism under the guise of religion. It's the same with Islam as it is/was with N. Ireland, Rwanda and Nazi Germany. Religion and supposed religious leaders always played a part, but the main goal is strictly political and national. Islamic terrorism was not the first, nor will it be the last, form of terrorism to use the guise of religion to further its extreme nationalistic views.

Thankfully, people don't much like being oppressed. Not even Muslims. And the oppressors are never the majority. There will always be fanatics who want to control the masses, but there will always be masses who are tired of being pushed to the limit. That is happening in in Afghanistan right now, and is evidenced by the fact that many Afghanis are willing to fight and die alongside the US (and other nations) troops rather than fight and die alongside a terroristic regime that would strip them of any and all freedoms. It's a common theme throughout history, and I don't figure it will ever change.

You can post all the news articles you want. That's fine, but it doesn't mean (by a long shot) that other terrorism (religious and nationalistic in nature...outside of Islamic) isn't being perpetrated in all corners of the globe. Trust me when I say this, news media KNOWS what sells right now, and what sells right now is Islamic terrorism. Bearded Muslims are the ultimate fear figure in the world at this moment, and there's a lot of people who are making big bucks by exploiting that. I'm not saying that people shouldn't be vigilant or informed about Islamic terrorism, it certainly exists, but the news is so goddamn slanted that one would think it's the ONLY form of terrorism that exists today. It's seriously gone beyond ridiculous, and people just eat this shit up on a daily basis and ask for more.

SteelCityMom
10-07-2010, 11:09 AM
This is an older opinion piece, but it speaks volumes as to the problem of labeling acts of terrorism as strictly religious in nature.

The label of Catholic terror was never used about the IRA
Fundamentalism is often a form of nationalism in religious disguise
(12)


Karen Armstrong
The Guardian, Monday 11 July 2005 00.03 BST
Article history
Last year I attended a conference in the US about security and intelligence in the so-called war on terror and was astonished to hear one of the more belligerent participants, who as far as I could tell had nothing but contempt for religion, strongly argue that as a purely practical expedient, politicians and the media must stop referring to "Muslim terrorism". It was obvious, he said, that the atrocities had nothing to do with Islam, and to suggest otherwise was not merely inaccurate but dangerously counterproductive.
Rhetoric is a powerful weapon in any conflict. We cannot hope to convert Osama bin Laden from his vicious ideology; our priority must be to stem the flow of young people into organisations such as al-Qaida, instead of alienating them by routinely coupling their religion with immoral violence. Incorrect statements about Islam have convinced too many in the Muslim world that the west is an implacable enemy. Yet, as we found at the conference, it is not easy to find an alternative for referring to this terrorism; however, the attempt can be a salutary exercise that reveals the complexity of what we are up against.

We need a phrase that is more exact than "Islamic terror". These acts may be committed by people who call themselves Muslims, but they violate essential Islamic principles. The Qur'an prohibits aggressive warfare, permits war only in self-defence and insists that the true Islamic values are peace, reconciliation and forgiveness. It also states firmly that there must be no coercion in religious matters, and for centuries Islam had a much better record of religious tolerance than Christianity.

Like the Bible, the Qur'an has its share of aggressive texts, but like all the great religions, its main thrust is towards kindliness and compassion. Islamic law outlaws war against any country in which Muslims are allowed to practice their religion freely, and forbids the use of fire, the destruction of buildings and the killing of innocent civilians in a military campaign. So although Muslims, like Christians or Jews, have all too often failed to live up to their ideals, it is not because of the religion per se.

We rarely, if ever, called the IRA bombings "Catholic" terrorism because we knew enough to realise that this was not essentially a religious campaign. Indeed, like the Irish republican movement, many fundamentalist movements worldwide are simply new forms of nationalism in a highly unorthodox religious guise. This is obviously the case with Zionist fundamentalism in Israel and the fervently patriotic Christian right in the US.

In the Muslim world, too, where the European nationalist ideology has always seemed an alien import, fundamentalisms are often more about a search for social identity and national self-definition than religion. They represent a widespread desire to return to the roots of the culture, before it was invaded and weakened by the colonial powers.

Because it is increasingly recognised that the terrorists in no way represent mainstream Islam, some prefer to call them jihadists, but this is not very satisfactory. Extremists and unscrupulous politicians have purloined the word for their own purposes, but the real meaning of jihad is not "holy war" but "struggle" or "effort." Muslims are commanded to make a massive attempt on all fronts - social, economic, intellectual, ethical and spiritual - to put the will of God into practice.

Sometimes a military effort may be a regrettable necessity in order to defend decent values, but an oft-quoted tradition has the Prophet Muhammad saying after a military victory: "We are coming back from the Lesser Jihad [ie the battle] and returning to the Greater Jihad" - the far more important, difficult and momentous struggle to reform our own society and our own hearts.

Jihad is thus a cherished spiritual value that, for most Muslims, has no connection with violence. Last year, at the University of Kentucky, I met a delightful young man called Jihad; his parents had given him that name in the hope that he would become not a holy warrior, but a truly spiritual man who would make the world a better place. The term jihadi terrorism is likely to be offensive, therefore, and will win no hearts or minds.

At our conference in Washington, many people favoured "Wahhabi terrorism". They pointed out that most of the hijackers on September 11 came from Saudi Arabia, where a peculiarly intolerant form of Islam known as Wahhabism was the state religion. They argued that this description would be popular with those many Muslims who tended to be hostile to the Saudis. I was not happy, however, because even though the narrow, sometimes bigoted vision of Wahhabism makes it a fruitful ground for extremism, the vast majority of Wahhabis do not commit acts of terror.

Bin Laden was not inspired by Wahhabism but by the writings of the Egyptian ideologue Sayyid Qutb, who was executed by President Nasser in 1966. Almost every fundamentalist movement in Sunni Islam has been strongly influenced by Qutb, so there is a good case for calling the violence that some of his followers commit "Qutbian terrorism." Qutb urged his followers to withdraw from the moral and spiritual barbarism of modern society and fight it to the death.

Western people should learn more about such thinkers as Qutb, and become aware of the many dramatically different shades of opinion in the Muslim world. There are too many lazy, unexamined assumptions about Islam, which tends to be regarded as an amorphous, monolithic entity. Remarks such as "They hate our freedom" may give some a righteous glow, but they are not useful, because they are rarely accompanied by a rigorous analysis of who exactly "they" are.

The story of Qutb is also instructive as a reminder that militant religiosity is often the product of social, economic and political factors. Qutb was imprisoned for 15 years in one of Nasser's vile concentration camps, where he and thousands of other members of the Muslim Brotherhood were subjected to physical and mental torture. He entered the camp as a moderate, but the prison made him a fundamentalist. Modern secularism, as he had experienced it under Nasser, seemed a great evil and a lethal assault on faith.

Precise intelligence is essential in any conflict. It is important to know who our enemies are, but equally crucial to know who they are not. It is even more vital to avoid turning potential friends into foes. By making the disciplined effort to name our enemies correctly, we will learn more about them, and come one step nearer, perhaps, to solving the seemingly intractable and increasingly perilous problems of our divided world.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2005/jul/11/northernireland.july7

tony hipchest
10-07-2010, 12:18 PM
lets cut throught the BS here. ANYONE who suggests the "muslim flag" (if there really is such thing) will fly over the whitehouse is about as bright as that eurotrash pos stupa_fly.

how many people have even seen the muslim flag or could racognize it? does it superscede the saudi flag?

barak isnt muslim, he is christian.

have the muslims conquered america in war?

did clinton fly the confederate flag when he was president?

if we never have allowed a giant cross to be placed ontop of the WH, why would we allow any other religious symbol?

:shout:- PANIC!!!

zulater
10-07-2010, 12:31 PM
Damn, this shit reminds me of StfU, it's like the same argument over and over and over again. Did this not all get hashed out in the numerous other threads? Instead on a bajillion Obama threads we have a bajillion Islam threads.

You'd complain about it either way. Just don't open a thread if you think it's gonna bother ya. :flap:

zulater
10-07-2010, 12:41 PM
lets cut throught the BS here. ANYONE who suggests the "muslim flag" (if there really is such thing) will fly over the whitehouse is about as bright as that eurotrash pos stupa_fly.

how many people have even seen the muslim flag or could racognize it? does it superscede the saudi flag?

barak isnt muslim, he is christian.

have the muslims conquered america in war?

did clinton fly the confederate flag when he was president?

if we never have allowed a giant cross to be placed ontop of the WH, why would we allow any other religious symbol?

:shout:- PANIC!!!

True, but it never hurts to know your enemies long term objective's and goals if you want to keep them in check.

. I mean I've even heard rumor that the Browns have threatened to one day posses the Lombardi trophy. Even though that event can never happen they can still annoy the shit out of you in the proccess of trying. :chuckle:

MasterOfPuppets
10-07-2010, 03:44 PM
Damn, this shit reminds me of StfU, it's like the same argument over and over and over again. Did this not all get hashed out in the numerous other threads? Instead on a bajillion Obama threads we have a bajillion Islam threads.
meh.... its not like there's any other activity going on in the locker room.....:noidea:

Shea
10-07-2010, 10:09 PM
shea's right... instead of hating the muslims , we should just embrace them and their culture...:rolleyes:

Yes, there are sectors of the religion that aren't exceptable and of course extremists within the religion, but don't group the whole religion in that catergory.

Watch this and educate yourself.

http://abc.go.com/watch/2020/SH559026/VD5589601/islam-questions-and-answers

EVERY religion has its kooks and those that are uneducated. The trick, it seems for some people, is the ability to recognize and differentiate that the mass majority of the good versus the select few of the bad isn't even close.

ricardisimo
10-07-2010, 11:14 PM
Yeah actually they are. Much better in fact. Sure there's still a few brush fires among the cult and you have some situation arise here and there with some yokel inbred fundamentalist who gets carried away and does something unfortunate in the name of his god. But all the worlds other religions combined times 10 don't approach the mayhem currently being created in the world on a daily basis in the name of Allah. Sorry but that's the unfortunate truth.
Your assumption, whenever anything happens in the Middle East or any predominantly Muslim region, is that Islam is the cause. Anything bad, that is. The lists after lists after lists that Mom and I scared up regarding terrorism in Europe, homicide rates in Muslim countries, rape statistics, etc., etc. do not suggest to you that there is something right with Islam, nor should they, despite just how good their stats really are.

But it works in the other direction as well. The horrific shit from goons in the Middle East should not be your canvas for painting Muslims. Backwoods thugs are backwoods thugs no matter if they are Klansmen from Georgia or Taliban from Afghanistan.

Furthermore, if you can generalize upon their religion based on what their thugs are doing, so can they. And "our religion" - based upon all of our numerous wars, overthrown governments and covert operations in their part of the globe - looks a whole lot worse than Islam does, especially if we're just going on bodycount.

Finally, an appalling number of their thugs and goons and dictators are or were on our dime. So who's really responsible? Islam, or our other religion: capitalism (what passes for capitalism, I should say)?

zulater
10-08-2010, 02:25 AM
Really if you want to differentiate Islam from Christianity I think the place to start looking is at it's center, in other words it's prophet. Examine Jesus the man, what he did and didn't do and it's hard to understand how anyone could use his examples and teachings to promote violence? Not saying it doesn't happen, but again getting back to the center piece of the religion and you'd have to say those that use Jesus as an excuse to commit violence against their fellow man have strayed off the path of the leader.

Conversly if we examine Muhamad the man.... well short version, it's hard to understand how anyone wouldn't be prone to radicalism and violence if they want to follow the footsteps of the man who once was.

I know no one wants to hear it, but just saying all the same.

ricardisimo
10-08-2010, 02:58 AM
Uh, he claimed he was god (or the bastard son thereof) which Mohammad never did. So humility's out the window already. Any time you want to click on my signature to examine the joys and wonders of Christianity, be my guest. I have little doubt that neither Islam nor Judaism are any better, being all branches of the same sick tree.

The real question is: how did a professed agnostic like you get snookered into running interference for one of these abominations against the others?

zulater
10-08-2010, 06:21 AM
Uh, he claimed he was god (or the bastard son thereof) which Mohammad never did. So humility's out the window already. Any time you want to click on my signature to examine the joys and wonders of Christianity, be my guest. I have little doubt that neither Islam nor Judaism are any better, being all branches of the same sick tree.

The real question is: how did a professed agnostic like you get snookered into running interference for one of these abominations against the others?

So supposedly claiming he was god is as bad as being a mass murderer, torturer, rapist, and pedophile?

Yeah ric, right. :doh:

zulater
10-08-2010, 06:30 AM
I might be agnostic, but history tells me that Budha, Jesus, and Muhamed were all real men, and what history is also available strongly suggests to me that two of the three were good men who used their lives to set good examples for others. If I were to ever gain religion I could see genuine value in following in the real life footsteps of Budha or Jesus. Mohamed, no thanks, guy was a thug. If you made Ghengis Khan the centerpiece of your church you wouldn't be doing much different.

http://invitation2learn.wordpress.com/2007/12/17/did-jesus-claim-divinity-part-1-examining-the-four-gospels/

By the way ric, there's genuine debate over whether Jesus ever truly declared himself divine. Some believe that Jesus' words were twisted by those that would prosper and propel themselves to positions of power and influence most by his divinity in his aftermath.

SteelCityMom
10-08-2010, 08:30 AM
I might be agnostic, but history tells me that Budha, Jesus, and Muhamed were all real men, and what history is also available strongly suggests to me that two of the three were good men who used their lives to set good examples for others. If I were to ever gain religion I could see genuine value in following in the real life footsteps of Budha or Jesus. Mohamed, no thanks, guy was a thug. If you made Ghengis Khan the centerpiece of your church you wouldn't be doing much different.

http://invitation2learn.wordpress.com/2007/12/17/did-jesus-claim-divinity-part-1-examining-the-four-gospels/

By the way ric, there's genuine debate over whether Jesus ever truly declared himself divine. Some believe that Jesus' words were twisted by those that would prosper and propel themselves to positions of power and influence most by his divinity in his aftermath.

Well, to be fair, if there's genuine debate over whether Jesus was divine and whether or not his words were twisted (for prosperity and power), wouldn't it in turn be possible that he was not some kind of saint worthy of praise. Maybe he wasn't even someone who you should model your life after? Couldn't you say the same thing about Mohamed? Maybe he wasn't the monster you make him out to be? (and yes, there are genuine debates going on right now about the validity of some of the stories about Mohamed in the Qu'ran...many Muslims think some of the stories were twisted to fit their own needs).

This is a big reason I take all religions with a grain of salt. Anything can be twisted to fit a persons (or group of peoples) needs, if the people in power want to make it so.

SteelMember
10-08-2010, 09:56 AM
Follow the gourd... NO! The shoe.

SteelersinCA
10-08-2010, 10:43 AM
Well, to be fair, if there's genuine debate over whether Jesus was divine and whether or not his words were twisted (for prosperity and power), wouldn't it in turn be possible that he was not some kind of saint worthy of praise. Maybe he wasn't even someone who you should model your life after? Couldn't you say the same thing about Mohamed? Maybe he wasn't the monster you make him out to be? (and yes, there are genuine debates going on right now about the validity of some of the stories about Mohamed in the Qu'ran...many Muslims think some of the stories were twisted to fit their own needs).

This is a big reason I take all religions with a grain of salt. Anything can be twisted to fit a persons (or group of peoples) needs, if the people in power want to make it so.

Don't confuse me with logic or facts, I already have my mind made up!!!!!:banging::chuckle:

lionslicer
10-08-2010, 11:02 AM
People do know that the Islams believe that they have to lie their way into Jew and Christian culture and when they finally come into power to force Islam on to the Jews and Christians and kill the ones who do not submit.
Bu half of the muslims don't believe this and the other half do believe this. In their sacred texts, there are parts that say to terrorize other religions and parts that say do not terrorize anyone and you should accept all religions and live in peace. It contradicts itself and says that if a part of the book contradicts another part, the part later in the book that contradicts an earlier part should be followed and the other part not. But Islams seem to not pay attention to this. You can conclude what you want from this.

zulater
10-08-2010, 11:15 AM
Well, to be fair, if there's genuine debate over whether Jesus was divine and whether or not his words were twisted (for prosperity and power), wouldn't it in turn be possible that he was not some kind of saint worthy of praise. Maybe he wasn't even someone who you should model your life after? Couldn't you say the same thing about Mohamed? Maybe he wasn't the monster you make him out to be? (and yes, there are genuine debates going on right now about the validity of some of the stories about Mohamed in the Qu'ran...many Muslims think some of the stories were twisted to fit their own needs).

This is a big reason I take all religions with a grain of salt. Anything can be twisted to fit a persons (or group of peoples) needs, if the people in power want to make it so.

Trust me, I understand all history is subject to be distorted to serve the needs of whoever the particuliar writer is.

But any way you cut it, even by the mildest text you can find Muhamed led a life often filled with violence.

And I've seen no known recorded history that establishes Jesus as a violent man.

zulater
10-08-2010, 11:16 AM
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/Pages/History.htm

Good read for anyone willing to take 20-30 minutes out of their day.

SteelCityMom
10-08-2010, 01:45 PM
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/Pages/History.htm

Good read for anyone willing to take 20-30 minutes out of their day.


Interesting, but very slanted. I've read different accounts from unbiased sources. History is tricky that way.

SteelCityMom
10-08-2010, 01:49 PM
Trust me, I understand all history is subject to be distorted to serve the needs of whoever the particuliar writer is.

But any way you cut it, even by the mildest text you can find Muhamed led a life often filled with violence.

And I've seen no known recorded history that establishes Jesus as a violent man.

Not arguing with you on that. History has shown that one can be involved in wars and still be religious though. And Muslims accept the teaching of Jesus, they just do not accept that he was the son of God...but merely a prophet like Mohammad. Different men, different teachings.

And for further thought, while some of our nations army is deeply rooted in Christianity, whose teachings do you think they actively follow? Jesus' or Mohammads? Do they turn the other cheek, or defend their nations rights through violence if necessary?

ricardisimo
10-08-2010, 02:14 PM
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/Pages/History.htm

Good read for anyone willing to take 20-30 minutes out of their day.
That religionofpeace site is right up there with bleacherreport on my list of Sites Which are Devoid of Meaningful Content. It's a propaganda site, pure and simple. There's a reason I quote the CIA when I'm criticizing US foreign policy, and you should do the same. Read the Quran if you really want to criticize these folks. You'll find ample material, trust me.

And on that note, we should quote the New Testament to bring us back to my previous point.
Matthew 7:16 - "Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles"
If we are to follow your lead and judge Islam by what Muslims do in the real world, then we should be likewise judging Christianity by what Christians do in the real world. I needn't remind you that they are not bombing our cities, nor are they using white phosphorous against Americans, nor are they taking control of our resources by force and giving them away in no-bid contracts. Nor are they subverting our elections.

We good Christians are doing all of those things in the Muslim world, and we don't even bother to lie about it; it's for their own good, we tell ourselves. I realize that there is something cathartic (or at least distracting) for you and Vinny and Venom to keep posting these articles about how horrible "those people" are. But I really think all of us would benefit a lot more from taking a long, cold, hard look in the mirror on a daily basis.

MasterOfPuppets
10-10-2010, 07:47 AM
WOW....JUST....WOW

Inspired By Islam (What the most famous cleric has to say):
From Khomeini's (http://homa.clickandcms.com/khomeneiSayings.html) book, "Tahrirolvasyleh", fourth volume, Darol Elm, Gom, Iran, 1990 :
A man can have sexual pleasure from a child as young as a baby. However he should not penetrate, sodomising the child is OK. If the man penetrates and damages the child then he should be responsible for her subsistence throughout her life. This girl, however does not count as one of his four permanent wives. The man will not be eligible to marry the girls sister.
[...]
It is better for a girl to marry in such a time when she would begin menstruation at her husband's house rather than her father's home. Any father marrying his daughter so young will have a permanent place in heaven.

http://www.homa.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=89&Itemid=56

zulater
10-10-2010, 08:13 AM
That religionofpeace site is right up there with bleacherreport on my list of Sites Which are Devoid of Meaningful Content. It's a propaganda site, pure and simple. There's a reason I quote the CIA when I'm criticizing US foreign policy, and you should do the same. Read the Quran if you really want to criticize these folks. You'll find ample material, trust me.

And on that note, we should quote the New Testament to bring us back to my previous point.
Matthew 7:16 - "Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles"
If we are to follow your lead and judge Islam by what Muslims do in the real world, then we should be likewise judging Christianity by what Christians do in the real world. I needn't remind you that they are not bombing our cities, nor are they using white phosphorous against Americans, nor are they taking control of our resources by force and giving them away in no-bid contracts. Nor are they subverting our elections.

We good Christians are doing all of those things in the Muslim world, and we don't even bother to lie about it; it's for their own good, we tell ourselves. I realize that there is something cathartic (or at least distracting) for you and Vinny and Venom to keep posting these articles about how horrible "those people" are. But I really think all of us would benefit a lot more from taking a long, cold, hard look in the mirror on a daily basis.

ric , remember we don't all subscribe to your worldview that every military operation this country has been involved with since our Revolutionary War is a criminal act on our part.

It is worth consider though that many Muslims have been fed your line of logic without ever being given the counter p.o.v. with the supporting rationale for our presence in their regions of the world.

I'm not going to sit here and be the one to make the argument by the way, because, one I don't have the time or energy, and two I'm not really good at explaining it anyway. In my mind I've examined both sides of the argument and made a decision opposite of your views ric, but I've never been a great advocate as in explaining it. that's why I'm a horseman and not a lawyer.:chuckle:

But again it is worth consider that many Muslims, correctly or not, view western society as intrusive, self serving, obtuse and belligerent. Therefore I will give some more pause for thought in the future as to their suspicions and actions towards us in some less aggrecious instances. :hatsoff:

tony hipchest
10-11-2010, 01:42 AM
so in summation, what can we make of this thread?

"A red dotted maxi-pad will one day fly over the White House" .