PDA

View Full Version : Let's See If Goodell Goes After Favre


Atlanta Dan
10-09-2010, 08:10 AM
Let's see if Goodell's concern about non-criminal behavior supporting a suspension extends to Brett Favre

The NFL says it is reviewing allegations involving Minnesota Vikings quarterback Brett Favre, who the website Deadspin says sent racy messages and photos to a woman who worked for the team while he played for the Jets

League spokesman Greg Aiello said Friday, "We are reviewing the matter," when asked about reports that Favre sent voice mails and photos to Jenn Sterger, who did game-day work for the Jets. ....

Later Friday, Deadspin reported that Favre also pursued two female massage therapistswho worked part-time for the team, according to one of the women. Deadspin did not identify the women, but a Jets spokesman said the team has contact information for the two women and was giving that information to the league. The Jets spokesman requested anonymity because the NFL investigation is ongoing.

The women were two of 17 massage therapists the Jets used during what they called two intensive recovery days in training camp in 2008.

According to Deadspin, one woman exchanged phone numbers with Favre, and the other woman told the website that the quarterback sent "nasty" text messages and invited both women to his hotel room.

Asked about the report Thursday, Favre said: "I'm not getting into that. I've got my hands full with the Jets and am trying to get some timing down with our guys, so that's all I'm going to discuss."

A Jets spokesperson said: "We are working closely with the league in their review of this matter."

Deadspin also reported that Jets director of media relations Jared Winley may have been an intermediary between Favre and Sterger

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=5663024

If true, sexual harassment of members of the media and employees, aided and abetted by the director of media relations for teh team, should be a big deal.

Here is the Deadspin story that started it

One night, Sterger received a picture on her phone which was so shocking that she just tossed it across the room. It was his ****. Brett Favre's ****. And it happened multiple times.

http://deadspin.com/5603701/brett-favre-once-sent-me-****-shots-not-a-love-story

Here is follow-up link

http://deadspin.com/5658206/brett-favres-cellphone-seduction-of-jenn-sterger?skyline=true&s=i


And there's more
Sources: Two More Women Who Worked With Jets Received Lewd Texts From Favre

http://deadspin.com/5659474/sources-two-more-women-who-worked-with-jets-received-lewd-texts-from-favre

Given my dislike of Favre and the Jets, I look forward to further developments:chuckle:

Fire Haley
10-09-2010, 11:16 AM
4-6 game suspension, immediately, for tarnishing hte shield!!!


Two More Women Who Worked With Jets Received Lewd Texts From Favre

They have actual evidence and now a pattern of behavior.

SteelCityMom
10-09-2010, 11:27 AM
3AuEuYyfL0o

floodcitygirl
10-09-2010, 01:08 PM
I am interested to see if the NFL will go after him. I can't help but feel very sorry for his wife and kids if this story is true.

SteelKnight
10-11-2010, 04:24 AM
You kinda feel sorry for the guy and his wife who has had beast cancer.

It's tough...guys like women. It is wrong to cheat. It's tough having all that money and power and not being able to cash in.

http://deadspin.com/5658206/brett-favres-cellphone-seduction-of-jenn-sterger?skyline=true&s=i

MasterOfPuppets
10-11-2010, 04:37 AM
i heard on TV that 2 massage therapists have come out of the woodwork to claim they've received brett favre sex text ...:chuckle:

lionslicer
10-11-2010, 04:42 AM
:noidea:
Seems more like a goldigger who found someone who could immitate Brett's voice pretty well. Listening to those messages, I'm somewhat sure it isn't him, the accent is too thick.

MasterOfPuppets
10-11-2010, 05:17 AM
john madden was summoned to NY to examine the alleged brett favre penis pics.. he polished favres knob for a good 15 years , who would know better ? :noidea:

zulater
10-11-2010, 06:46 AM
http://www.timesonline.com/sports/sports_details/article/1424/2010/october/10/monday-madden-after-ben-fiasco-nfl-has-to-suspend-favre.html

After Ben fiasco, NFL has to suspend Favre

When NFL commissioner Roger Goodell suspended Ben Roethlisberger despite no charges filed or evidence existing, he painted himself into a corner. With Roethlisberger punished thusly, how can Goodell not penalize everyone who has tangibly broken the NFL’s personal conduct policy?

Goodell has already given free passes to some lesser lights.

But now Goodell faces a huge PR dilemma. Brett Favre stands accused of sexually harassing a fellow New York Jets employee in 2008, leaving a comprehensive trail of video and audio evidence.

The conventional media did its level best to ignore the story, but gonzo website Deadspin.com continued the TMZ-ing of sports by posting damning voice mails, Facebook entries and extremely risqué texts allegedly sent by Favre to Jenn Sterger (now with Versus, then with the Jets’ in-house TV network).

kirklandrules
10-11-2010, 07:48 AM
Seems the league's favorite son has been anything but an upstanding gentleman. Brett Favre has been spending his free time sending lewd text messages and pornographic pictures of himself to various women who obviously don't appreciate his antics. It's not known yet if he's been scoring with any of these women and it remains to be seen if the league intends to determine how far their boy went with this.

My question is: Given the actions the league took with Ben (lacking charges from law enforcement), should Favre receive a suspension and if so, for how long?

Here's a link with some details ...

http://www.foxnews.com/sports/2010/10/11/woman-claims-favre-tried-seduce/?test=faces

theplatypus
10-11-2010, 09:12 AM
Is a sending text with lewd content to a consenting adult a crime?

kirklandrules
10-11-2010, 09:18 AM
Is a sending text with lewd content to a consenting adult a crime?

Sounds like it wasn't consenting ... that's why this has come out. Favre was ratted out. Regardless, the issue is you have two QBs that have been involved in sleazy acts involving women without charges being filed; Ben was suspended for 4 games because the league has said he violated the code of conduct ... the question is: What should the league do with Favre?

gameface75
10-11-2010, 09:48 AM
I think Favre should be penalized Just as harshly as Ben was ,if in fact he is guilty.However I think that being the chump that he (the commissioner) is he will follow his usual practice and just destroy the evidence.

Stanley
10-11-2010, 10:43 AM
I predict that the NFL's investigation won't be complete until the season is over.

The NFL wants the Vikings to make the playoffs.
They want Favre and the Vikings to at least make it as far as the NFC Title game.

This will be the slowest investigation in history.
:coffee:

MACH1
10-11-2010, 11:04 AM
I am interested to see if the NFL will go after him. I can't help but feel very sorry for his wife and kids if this story is true.

Doesn't matter if your godell. All it should take is an accusation for a 6 game vacation. Proof or not.

SteelersinCA
10-11-2010, 11:44 AM
Is a sending text with lewd content to a consenting adult a crime?

2 consenting adults, no. If they weren't consenting, exposing yourself is a crime. Either way the people comparing this to Ben should be ashamed of themselves. Ben was accused of sexually assaulting 2 women. The decision not to file charges doesn't mean it didn't happen, it meant the evidence was weak.

Which would you rather happen to your wife or daughter? Texts from Brett or a night in a bathroom with Roethlisberger? :coffee:

theplatypus
10-11-2010, 11:52 AM
2 consenting adults, no. If they weren't consenting, exposing yourself is a crime. Either way the people comparing this to Ben should be ashamed of themselves. Ben was accused of sexually assaulting 2 women. The decision not to file charges doesn't mean it didn't happen, it meant the evidence was weak.

Which would you rather happen to your wife or daughter? Texts from Brett or a night in a bathroom with Roethlisberger? :coffee:


yay for perspective

SteelKnight
10-11-2010, 12:00 PM
Sounds like it wasn't consenting ... that's why this has come out. Favre was ratted out. Regardless, the issue is you have two QBs that have been involved in sleazy acts involving women without charges being filed; Ben was suspended for 4 games because the league has said he violated the code of conduct ... the question is: What should the league do with Favre?

This is touchy. I don't think it is the commissioner's job to legislate morality. Can you imagine if David Stern of the NBA started assigning penalties for cheating, making passes on women involved with the NBA etc?

I'm tired of the media making all women look like they are innocent virgins. If she filed a harassment report, that's wen the league should be involved. The tools are there. Women are not kids. The commish should investigate whether:
1. She filed a report
2. She wanted to file a report but was intimidated or prevented from doing so

If the above 2 are "no", the investigation should close.

For all I know, Farve got some intell that she was a ho who gives out. Same with the 2 massage therapists. Maybe they've been doing more. It should only be disciplined if the filed complaints or attempted to file complaints.

As far as Ben, I think there is a difference between giving the appearance of rape and giving liquor to minors and giving the appearance of attempted adultery (which is not against the law). So long as she has not filed for harassment, the investigation should end. I don't think you can pressure a woman to file for harassment. That would be like pressuring the woman to press charges for rape.

I predict that the NFL's investigation won't be complete until the season is over.

The NFL wants the Vikings to make the playoffs.
They want Favre and the Vikings to at least make it as far as the NFC Title game.

This will be the slowest investigation in history.
:coffee:

Funny but probably true. There are many athletes who cheat on their wives and the women they hit on are the women they see...whether cheerleaders, reporters, secretaries, etc. I guess these are all employees. Should any woman employee who flirts with players be fired? If this lady had just said she wasn't attracted to Farve, it would have ended. For all I know, she was being coy.

Stanley
10-11-2010, 12:05 PM
2 consenting adults, no. If they weren't consenting, exposing yourself is a crime. Either way the people comparing this to Ben should be ashamed of themselves. Ben was accused of sexually assaulting 2 women. The decision not to file charges doesn't mean it didn't happen, it meant the evidence was weak.

Which would you rather happen to your wife or daughter? Texts from Brett or a night in a bathroom with Roethlisberger? :coffee:

Let's concede for the sake of discussion that what Roethlisberger did was worse than Favre's actions. Nevertheless, that doesn't mitigate what Favre did.

Unless the females in question encouraged Favre to send them photos of himself, his actions were disgusting and warrant suspension by the League.

How would you like it if some creep sent obscene photos to your wife or daughter?
:mallet:

tony hipchest
10-11-2010, 12:38 PM
john madden was summoned to NY to examine the alleged brett favre penis pics.. he polished favres knob for a good 15 years , who would know better ? :noidea:word is goodell is examining the evidence long and hard.

he has a screenshot on his desk right next to bradys hairless and boyish prick.

ZoneBlitzer
10-11-2010, 01:14 PM
Well I don't think he has any priors plus its not sexual assault accusation - I say he gets two games.

kirklandrules
10-11-2010, 01:55 PM
2 consenting adults, no. If they weren't consenting, exposing yourself is a crime. Either way the people comparing this to Ben should be ashamed of themselves. Ben was accused of sexually assaulting 2 women. The decision not to file charges doesn't mean it didn't happen, it meant the evidence was weak.

Which would you rather happen to your wife or daughter? Texts from Brett or a night in a bathroom with Roethlisberger? :coffee:

Who has accused Ben of sexual assault? Oh, that's right, a nut job in Vegas who bragged about having his baby with her coworkers and a drunken college tramp who was hazed by her friends after a sloppy performance in a bathroom. So Favre is the better person because he couldn't convince his "prey" to sleep with him? Somehow I thought Favre, being 41 years old, might have been in violation of the code of conduct by sending naked pictures of himself along with sext messages to message therapists and members of the NY media while his wife was back in the swamps fighting cancer and taking care of his kids.

lionslicer
10-11-2010, 03:41 PM
Wasn't Ben suspended for subsance abuse?

And this happened in 2008? Why does this person decide to come out about it in 2010? especially if she has photos and his voice on a phone?

Why doesn't the NFL do what they did during the Micheal Jackson Trials? Put Favre's little gadget in a line-up and see if the girl can match it with the photos, and if she can't, then she's a liar and the photos are fake.
The story in general doesn't make sense in general... like Favre knows how to use myspace...

chacha
10-11-2010, 04:28 PM
If they can prove the voice in the messages is him (and it sounds just like him), and the pics are of little Brett, he needs to be suspended, if that happened at the workplace a person would be canned

tony hipchest
10-11-2010, 04:48 PM
Wasn't Ben suspended for subsance abuse?

...no.

stairway27
10-11-2010, 05:03 PM
http://i767.photobucket.com/albums/xx314/fotangfootball/danglerad.jpg

stairway27
10-11-2010, 05:05 PM
http://i767.photobucket.com/albums/xx314/fotangfootball/danglerad.jpg

lionslicer
10-11-2010, 05:30 PM
no.

Someone on this forum actually argued with me that he was suspended for that other than him being acused of raping someone...

kirklandrules
10-11-2010, 06:56 PM
Stairway27, that pic is too damned funny! The Italian flag underwear and the crap stains in the front are just the right touch.

zulater
10-11-2010, 08:17 PM
yay for perspective

Boo for bullshit!

:coffee:

zulater
10-11-2010, 08:36 PM
Who has accused Ben of sexual assault? Oh, that's right, a nut job in Vegas who bragged about having his baby with her coworkers and a drunken college tramp who was hazed by her friends after a sloppy performance in a bathroom. So Favre is the better person because he couldn't convince his "prey" to sleep with him? Somehow I thought Favre, being 41 years old, might have been in violation of the code of conduct by sending naked pictures of himself along with sext messages to message therapists and members of the NY media while his wife was back in the swamps fighting cancer and taking care of his kids.

Don't forget one is single and one is married. ( for now anyway)

Ben is owed the presumptuion of innocence because no charges were filed against him. Charges weren't filed against him because the accuser changed her story, several times in fact, uneccessarily lawered up ( a "victim" of a crime is represented by the state) then stopped cooperating with authorities.

Even her most damning witness statments when examined closely don't amount to rape. Basically asking if we should be doing what we're doing isn't remotely close to saying stop, or no!

She was talked into making charges by her sorority sisters, one in particuliar who was so predisposed against Ben that she was kicked out of the VIP area earliar in the evening for openly calling Ben a rapist based on the Tahoe allegation.

One should remember when first asked if she was raped she answered "No.", asked whether she had sex with Ben, " I don't know." The officer on the scene said the friends drove the story, the eventual accuser's demeanor was described as "nonchalant." A bit later of course her story evolved to " A boy kinda raped me" at the hospital when a rape kit was proccessed. A rape kit which produced no damning evidence against Ben.. Not even one damning short and curly.

"We prosecute crimes, not morals." So said Mr. D.A. Bright.

But Goodell as we all know does prosecute morals. So let's see what the punishment is for sexual harrasment if proven?

Hell if it was Ben it wouldn't have to be proven, but i do hope he gives Favre the benifit of the doubt and affords him the presumption of innocence that was lacking in Ben's case.

JEFF4i
10-11-2010, 09:07 PM
Favre, even if found guilty, shouldn't be suspended for the same reason Ben shouldn't have been.

It's bullcrap, no one was hurt, and let the legal system clean this up. If they are found guilty of a crime, the law will punish them accordingly.

Especially if the parties were consenting. ESPECIALLY on something this trivial

kirklandrules
10-12-2010, 07:24 AM
Favre, even if found guilty, shouldn't be suspended for the same reason Ben shouldn't have been.

It's bullcrap, no one was hurt, and let the legal system clean this up. If they are found guilty of a crime, the law will punish them accordingly.

Especially if the parties were consenting. ESPECIALLY on something this trivial

As every player will say, time and time again: "It's a business". Well most businesses would sh!t-can someone for sending naked pics and offensive language to women. I'd be fired from my job for doing this. The NFL is trying to clean up their image so you have to come down on these actions.

I wasn't frustrated Ben was punished by the league for operating in the sleaze zone. I was frustrated because Tom Cable (who had a repeated history of beating the piss out of women) was not punished ... as were half the other athletes who were actually charged and convicted of crimes. Here we have Favre, poster boy of the league, apparently caught sending these pictures and texts. What is the league willing to do that the fans will say is fair and just? The Commish is a lawyer, he should understand precedence. He set that precedence with Ben. Favre should get a 4-6 game suspension, with the reduction to 4 games after treatment for his "problem".

stairway27
10-12-2010, 01:08 PM
Thanks, but... You do realize that those aren't crap stains right? It's hard to pick up on sarcasm sometimes with print. Those pants have a penis screen printed on them.

cloppbeast
10-12-2010, 01:19 PM
As every player will say, time and time again: "It's a business". Well most businesses would sh!t-can someone for sending naked pics and offensive language to women. I'd be fired from my job for doing this. The NFL is trying to clean up their image so you have to come down on these actions.

:applaudit::applaudit:

Stanley
10-12-2010, 07:11 PM
As every player will say, time and time again: "It's a business". Well most businesses would sh!t-can someone for sending naked pics and offensive language to women. I'd be fired from my job for doing this. The NFL is trying to clean up their image so you have to come down on these actions.

I wasn't frustrated Ben was punished by the league for operating in the sleaze zone. I was frustrated because Tom Cable (who had a repeated history of beating the piss out of women) was not punished ... as were half the other athletes who were actually charged and convicted of crimes. Here we have Favre, poster boy of the league, apparently caught sending these pictures and texts. What is the league willing to do that the fans will say is fair and just? The Commish is a lawyer, he should understand precedence. He set that precedence with Ben. Favre should get a 4-6 game suspension, with the reduction to 4 games after treatment for his "problem".

Well said.
The players and coaches are high profile employees of the League.
They represent the NFL.
Every other business that I know of an employee would be fired for sending obscene photos to a woman.

In my former hometown, the weatherman on the local TV station was fired for making vulgar comments to a couple of women who worked behind the counter at a local convenience store.

SteelersinCA
10-13-2010, 12:37 AM
As every player will say, time and time again: "It's a business". Well most businesses would sh!t-can someone for sending naked pics and offensive language to women. I'd be fired from my job for doing this. The NFL is trying to clean up their image so you have to come down on these actions.

I wasn't frustrated Ben was punished by the league for operating in the sleaze zone. I was frustrated because Tom Cable (who had a repeated history of beating the piss out of women) was not punished ... as were half the other athletes who were actually charged and convicted of crimes. Here we have Favre, poster boy of the league, apparently caught sending these pictures and texts. What is the league willing to do that the fans will say is fair and just? The Commish is a lawyer, he should understand precedence. He set that precedence with Ben. Favre should get a 4-6 game suspension, with the reduction to 4 games after treatment for his "problem".

Well said.
The players and coaches are high profile employees of the League.
They represent the NFL.
Every other business that I know of an employee would be fired for sending obscene photos to a woman.

In my former hometown, the weatherman on the local TV station was fired for making vulgar comments to a couple of women who worked behind the counter at a local convenience store.

The players don't work for the NFL. They work for their respective teams, who, with the exception of the Packers, are incorporated businesses. The packers may be a corporation that's owned by the citizens.

You guys are really comparing alleged texts to alleged sexual assault, wow. You need to get a grip. Maybe you should look up your respective states penalties for each crime if they are proven true. I am quite certain the LAW finds tremendous difference between the two acts. 4-6 game suspension for Favre, please...:banging: (Not kirkland and stanley in particular)

lionslicer
10-13-2010, 01:34 AM
What is with the bandwagan jumping to get Favre suspended and fired?
You guys sound like Raven fans when Ben was in trouble.

Atlanta Dan
10-13-2010, 09:16 PM
What is with the bandwagan jumping to get Favre suspended and fired?
You guys sound like Raven fans when Ben was in trouble.

The fact it involves an out of division/out of conference moron for a team not on the Steelers schedule takes the "how does this help the Steelers" angle away

My interest in part is how Goodell will finesse this - once the personal conduct policy could be utilized to suspend a player for something other than failing a drug test or being arrested, Goodell deserved this scenario (only way it would improve for me would be if Brady was involved)

If Roethlisberger deserved 4 games, how can another high profile QB skate if he sent a presumably unwelcome screen shot of his genitals and other unsolicited sexts to a sideline reporter?

My interest also is in part because Favre devolved into a media ***** over the past several years - you want to be the focus of media attention Brett? You got it now.:toofunny:

lionslicer
10-13-2010, 11:18 PM
The fact it involves an out of division/out of conference moron for a team not on the Steelers schedule takes the "how does this help the Steelers" angle away

My interest in part is how Goodell will finesse this - once the personal conduct policy could be utilized to suspend a player for something other than failing a drug test or being arrested, Goodell deserved this scenario (only way it would improve for me would be if Brady was involved)

If Roethlisberger deserved 4 games, how can another high profile QB skate if he sent a presumably unwelcome screen shot of his genitals and other unsolicited sexts to a sideline reporter?

My interest also is in part because Favre devolved into a media ***** over the past several years - you want to be the focus of media attention Brett? You got it now.:toofunny:

The difference between this and Ben is that there was real evidense against Ben, though its wasn't strong, it proved he was in a situation he shouldn't have been, whether he raped a girl or not.
With Favre, there is no evidence other than a myspace profile, texts from a phone that isn't Favres and a voice mail which wouldn't hold in court due to Favre's fame, there are probably 100's of people who can mock his voice.
Even if the voice mail and myspace is fake, if they prove the texts were from him, they he would be suspended, but until they can even prove he did anything out of conduct, he wont be suspended.

I really don't care what happens, but I kind of get upset how people kind of gang up on someone when they don't know the whole story and generally don't like the player due to their success. Every fan other than Steeler fans think Ben did rape someone and should be in jail, not because of the evidence, but because of their dislike for him, and its happening with Favre. No one likes him because of his retirement antics, which is really stupid, his retirement antics only get so much media because the fans complain so much. There are other starters around the league that do the same thing every year, but because they don't complain as much, no one hears about it.

MasterOfPuppets
10-14-2010, 12:44 AM
http://dailycomedy.com/images/jokes/b/493_0_pantsground.jpg

tony hipchest
10-14-2010, 01:06 AM
well goodell has revealed he has no intentions of meeting with favre anytime soon. he is more than content to simply gaze at photos of favres c0ck and then then burn them once they have served his purpose. :jerkit:

with that being said, im really not with the "2 wrongs make a right" camp. however, atlanta dan is right. goodell set a shitty precedent, and deserves any predicament or scrutiny he may bring upon himself.

i havent seen worse double standards since the old administration of mods ran this board.

SteelersinCA
10-14-2010, 12:19 PM
My interest in part is how Goodell will finesse this - once the personal conduct policy could be utilized to suspend a player for something other than failing a drug test or being arrested, Goodell deserved this scenario (only way it would improve for me would be if Brady was involved)

If Roethlisberger deserved 4 games, how can another high profile QB skate if he sent a presumably unwelcome screen shot of his genitals and other unsolicited sexts to a sideline reporter?

Well, you're right. Goodell did set a ridiculous precedent, but I disagree that the precedent set must be game suspensions. The precedent set, imho, is that the league will punish you regardless of whether criminal charges are actually filed. That leaves a lot open to interpretation as far as severity of punishment. Along those lines it is inconceivable to me that someone would say Ben got a 6 game suspension for what he was accused of so Favre should get at least the same thing.

The two aren't even in the same category of close. You have people saying, "I'd get fired if I did that!" That may be true, but if you did what Ben did, you'd be in jail for about 25 years. How does that deserve the same suspension? Additionally, you have a website accusing Favre, essentially. Not even the person that received the texts!

The two can't be compared other than to say Favre can be punished. It doesn't mean, nor should it mean, he gets the same punishment.

I really don't care what happens, but I kind of get upset how people kind of gang up on someone when they don't know the whole story and generally don't like the player due to their success. Every fan other than Steeler fans think Ben did rape someone and should be in jail, not because of the evidence, but because of their dislike for him, and its happening with Favre. No one likes him because of his retirement antics, which is really stupid, his retirement antics only get so much media because the fans complain so much. There are other starters around the league that do the same thing every year, but because they don't complain as much, no one hears about it.

You're right on the court stuff with his voice. This is part and parcel to having a passionate fan base. Every now and then you have to remind them to take off the homer glasses.

i havent seen worse double standards since the old administration of mods ran this board.

They make Goodell look like Mary effing Poppins. :drink:

vasteeler
10-14-2010, 03:02 PM
This is touchy. I don't think it is the commissioner's job to legislate morality. Can you imagine if David Stern of the NBA started assigning penalties for cheating, making passes on women involved with the NBA etc?

I'm tired of the media making all women look like they are innocent virgins. If she filed a harassment report, that's wen the league should be involved. The tools are there. Women are not kids. The commish should investigate whether:
1. She filed a report
2. She wanted to file a report but was intimidated or prevented from doing so

If the above 2 are "no", the investigation should close.

For all I know, Farve got some intell that she was a ho who gives out. Same with the 2 massage therapists. Maybe they've been doing more. It should only be disciplined if the filed complaints or attempted to file complaints.

As far as Ben, I think there is a difference between giving the appearance of rape and giving liquor to minors and giving the appearance of attempted adultery (which is not against the law). So long as she has not filed for harassment, the investigation should end. I don't think you can pressure a woman to file for harassment. That would be like pressuring the woman to press charges for rape.



Funny but probably true. There are many athletes who cheat on their wives and the women they hit on are the women they see...whether cheerleaders, reporters, secretaries, etc. I guess these are all employees. Should any woman employee who flirts with players be fired? If this lady had just said she wasn't attracted to Farve, it would have ended. For all I know, she was being coy.

he did with ben:noidea:

steelerdave1969
10-14-2010, 04:18 PM
I think that the Commish will do the right thing, I just hope that Favre is Innocent myself. I have always really respected him and his toughness . . . its 2nd to none in the NFL in my opinion. It will not change my thoughts on Favre, cuz I know that everyone does things in life that they are not always proud of.

Atlanta Dan
10-14-2010, 07:46 PM
Well, you're right. Goodell did set a ridiculous precedent, but I disagree that the precedent set must be game suspensions. The precedent set, imho, is that the league will punish you regardless of whether criminal charges are actually filed. That leaves a lot open to interpretation as far as severity of punishment. Along those lines it is inconceivable to me that someone would say Ben got a 6 game suspension for what he was accused of so Favre should get at least the same thing.

The two aren't even in the same category of close. You have people saying, "I'd get fired if I did that!" That may be true, but if you did what Ben did, you'd be in jail for about 25 years. How does that deserve the same suspension? Additionally, you have a website accusing Favre, essentially. Not even the person that received the texts!

The two can't be compared other than to say Favre can be punished. It doesn't mean, nor should it mean, he gets the same punishment.

I did not say Favre should get 6 games I said he should not skate (aka not be disciplined) if the allegations are supported and Goodell applies the supposed "standard" he applied in Roethlisberger's case .. sexual harassment of the "sideline reporter" and perhaps the Jets contract employees presumably is regarded as serious business by an image conscious league that is attempting to expand its appeal to women by such marketing tactics as our current celebration of October as Pretty In Pink month

As far as the relative severity of the conduct, you are correct that if someone did what Roethlisberger was accused of doing it would be serious jail time - of course the Milledgeville DA concluded it could not be proven he did it and there were insufficient grounds to secure an indictment - that is why Goodell going off on the "not a crime but still detrimental to The Shield" standard leads to an ad hoc policy that certainly could extend to Favre's alleged conduct - proving it actually occurred is not the standard applied by the league ofice

As far as this allegation consisting of "a website" accusing Favre, Deadspin did not make up those screen shots- if I was Favre and I did it I would be pretty nervous; forensic reconstruction of the source of electronic communications can do quitea bit

And if Goodell ever watched Porky's he may decide there is a sure fire way to prove whether it was Favre in the screen shot

vmHTcR2kHfY

MasterOfPuppets
10-14-2010, 08:08 PM
I think that the Commish will do the right thing, I just hope that Favre is Innocent myself. I have always really respected him and his toughness . . . its 2nd to none in the NFL in my opinion. It will not change my thoughts on Favre, cuz I know that everyone does things in life that they are not always proud of.
innocent ? what does that got to do with anything ? :noidea: you don't have to be found guilty of anything unlawful in godells court to be suspended . he set the moral justice bar , now he needs to suspend favre to not look like a hypocrite and his "policy" loses credibility. . if he doesn't , if i were ben i'd take him to court for the 4 game checks he lost.

lionslicer
10-14-2010, 09:17 PM
innocent ? what does that got to do with anything ? :noidea: you don't have to be found guilty of anything unlawful in godells court to be suspended . he set the moral justice bar , now he needs to suspend favre to not look like a hypocrite . if he doesn't , if i were ben i'd take him to court for the 4 game checks he lost.

Ben was in a situation that made him be suspended. He was buying alcohol for women for who he didn't even know if they were over 21 or not and had a picture with the girl who was the accuser. There was no evidence that said he raped her, but he was doing things that were immoral by NFL conduct. If Ben was found guilty of raping the girl or atleast some misdemeaner, he would have been suspended for a year or more. But the accuser didn't cooperate with the police which is why it never went to trial. Just because the trial didn't happen, didn't mean the NFL viewed him as innocent.

The evidence on Favre hasn't been found to be real or not yet. The tape could be faked, the myspace is impossible to know if its Favres or not and the texts didn't come directly from Favre's main phone. They also haven't matched the pictures to Favre's man hood yet.

As soon as one of the things against Favre is proven to be real, he'll be suspended on the spot, but until then, Goodell wont suspend him for something there's no real proof of yet.

Again: Ben real physical evidence

Favre: Uncredible evidence.

Atlanta Dan
10-14-2010, 09:36 PM
Ben was in a situation that made him be suspended. He was buying alcohol for women for who he didn't even know if they were over 21 or not and had a picture with the girl who was the accuser. There was no evidence that said he raped her, but he was doing things that were immoral by NFL conduct. If Ben was found guilty of raping the girl or atleast some misdemeaner, he would have been suspended for a year or more. But the accuser didn't cooperate with the police which is why it never went to trial..

Oh she cooperated until her attorneys and family recognized she would be torn apart on cross-examination if she wanted to push the allegatiion- she gave two incoherent statements to the police and the DA realized with most everyone involved fitting the legal definition of drunk he did not have proof to convict (add to that the fact the DA wanted no part of Ben's Atlanta attorneys Don Samuel and Ed Garland). As for what got Ben suspended, it wasn't buying drinks for underage girls - it was taking an underage woman into a bathroom stall for some sort of sex act, consensual or non-consensual - the league was reacting to the bad pub rather than exercising any sort of moral outrage in the league office

Sounds like you are coming around to my view that if Goodell has "evidence" Favre sent the screen shot he will be suspended - my assumption is that "evidence" can be established if the league wants to look for it - my question is whether the league wants to look for it or whether Goodell prefers to decide these aren't the screen shots he is looking for - the question is how to spin the bad pub

CnjaUoR15dU

lionslicer
10-14-2010, 09:57 PM
Oh she cooperated until her attorneys and family recognized she would be torn apart on cross-examination if she wanted to push the allegatiion- she gave two incoherent statements to the police and the DA realized with most everyone involved fitting the legal definition of drunk he did not have proof to convict (add to that the fact the DA wanted no part of Ben's Atlanta attorneys Don Samuel and Ed Garland). As for what got Ben suspended, it wasn't buying drinks for underage girls - it was taking an underage woman into a bathroom stall for some sort of sex act, consensual or non-consensual - the league was reacting to the bad pub rather than exercising any sort of moral outrage in the league office

Sounds like you are coming around to my view that if Goodell has "evidence" Favre sent the screen shot he will be suspended - my assumption is that "evidence" can be established if the league wants to look for it - my question is whether the league wants to look for it or whether Goodell prefers to decide these aren't the screen shots he is looking for - the question is how to spin the bad pub

CnjaUoR15dU

I don't think there's some conspiracy theory in the NFL that goodell likes favre more than Ben or something... But maybe I'm wrong

Atlanta Dan
10-14-2010, 10:29 PM
I don't think there's some conspiracy theory in the NFL that goodell likes favre more than Ben or something... But maybe I'm wrong

I think the league acts in what is the best interests of the league - it is not a matter of Goodell "liking" one player more than another player.

Goodell was faced last spring with a nasty allegation combined with accusations that black players were getting get racked up for violating the personal conduct policy but that high profile white players would walk

From Michael Vick to Pacman Jones to Plaxico Burress and others, Goodell has wasted no time throwing down the gantlet and issuing verbal and financial penalties...

Enough is enough. The league has to sack Roethlisberger — for his sake, for the sake of the league and for the commissioner’s own credibility. He should be suspended for four games.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/14/sports/football/14rhoden.html


So Roethlisberger ends up being the first player suspended without having failed a drug test or having criminal charges brought against him. That action takes care of allegations of white players getting favorable treatment and avoids potential bad pub that Roethlisberger walked.

Now the league has a fairly seamy allegation that is hard to describe as criminal - but criminal conduct of course is no longer the test. The question is how to get this story to go away ASAP and stop the bad pub (you think the league was thrilled the screen shots were the buzz around the Monday night game?) If they look into this it potentially tars up a legendary QB and the investigation keeps the story in the news. If they do not look into look into it, some people may scream cover-up but the race card cannot be played since Roethlisberger getting whacked took care of that issue.

It comes down to, just as it did last spring with Roethlisberger, as to how to minimize the bad PR hit. It certainly cannot be based on any uniform application of standards of conduct that cover player discipline, because there are none.

But I agree with you it certainly is nothing personal as far as the league office is concerned - it is strictly business.

MasterOfPuppets
10-14-2010, 10:42 PM
so dan, from a legal perspective , who would be libel for the girl getting intoxicated in the bar ? the person buying the drinks ? or the bar ? i would think the bar is responsible for what goes on in the building. i haven't heard anything about anybody getting in trouble for serving the minors. if that happened here in maryland the bar would have been fined and or lost its liquor license depending on if they are previous offenders.

Atlanta Dan
10-14-2010, 11:01 PM
so dan, from a legal perspective , who would be libel for the girl getting intoxicated in the bar ? the person buying the drinks ? or the bar ? i would think the bar is responsible for what goes on in the building. i haven't heard anything about anybody getting in trouble for serving the minors. if that happened here in maryland the bar would have been fined and or lost its liquor license depending on if they are previous offenders.

For violation of Georgia law there is no need to get the kid drunk, just to provide alcohol

Both can be liable - bar is responsible if it served minors and could lose its license (Georgia is particularly nuts on liquor laws - no Sunday sales of beer wine or liquor in stores and everyone is required to be carded in bars or if you are buying a six pack at the grocery store regardless of age - I get carded). Under 21 crowd apparently could get into the bars in Milledgeville without a fake ID and wear a different color wristband once inside, so the bars apparently has worked it out with local law enforcement that as long as it is not knowingly selling to <21 it does not have to patrol the premises

Roethlisberger is liable if he knowingly provided alcohol to a minor not his child at his house (meaning you can serve liquor in your own house to your own teens in moderation as long as you do not endanger their health (aka do not serve booze to your 8 year old) but cannot host the house party for the after prom.

MasterOfPuppets
10-14-2010, 11:11 PM
For violation of Georgia law there is no need to get the kid drunk, just to provide alcohol

Both can be liable - bar is responsible if it served minors and could lose its license (Georgia is particularly nuts on liquor laws - no Sunday sales of beer wine or liquor in stores and everyone is required to be carded in bars or if you are buying a six pack at the grocery store regardless of age - I get carded). Under 21 crowd apparently could get into the bars in Milledgeville without a fake ID and wear a different color wristband once inside, so the bars apparently has worked it out with local law enforcement that as long as it is not knowingly selling to <21 it does not have to patrol the premises

Roethlisberger is liable if he knowingly provided alcohol to a minor not his child at his house (meaning you can serve liquor in your own house to your own teens in moderation as long as you do not endanger their health (aka do not serve booze to your 8 year old) but cannot host the house party for the after prom.
so how do you suppose he avoided not be cited for providing alchohol to a minor ? i'm sure it would have had to come up at some time during the investigation :noidea:

never mind... i found it...

Lurking on our list of story ideas but never quite making it onto the Rumor Mill over the past several days has been the question of whether Steelers quarterback Ben Roethlisberger could have been charged with providing alcohol to a minor under 21 on the evening that culminated in an accusation of sexual assault. Pushing the issue to the top of the stack were the recent comments of Michael Santicola, attorney for Big Ben bodyguard Anthony Barravecchio.

Santicola, who has shown a propensity to exercise his vocal cords in an ill-advised manner, had this to say regarding whether any laws were broken that night: "The only crime that I've seen committed right now is the crime of this girl. She's underage, she's bombed out of her mind and she's in a bar she shouldn't be in."

Nice.

District attorney Fred Bright addressed during his April 12 press conference/sermon the issue of underage drinking. And Bright was blunt -- but for the alleged victim's desire to move on, Roethlisberger could have been prosecuted for providing alcohol to an underage minor.

"First of all, he, Mr. Roethlisberger, there's a crime called furnishing alcohol to a minor under 21, OK?" Bright said. "And she, the victim, there's another crime called underage drinking. Both of these crimes are misdemeanors. Now, if we're going to prosecute one, we've got to prosecute the other. Let's talk about him furnishing alcohol to a minor under 21. The only way we can prosecute him is through her testimony. As for her, she's gone through enough already."

So, yes, Roethlisberger could have been charged for providing alcohol to an underage minor. And the alleged victim could have been charged for underaged drinking. Thus, the next time Santicola decides to pop off on the matter, he should be sure to also include the potential responsibility of his client's boss.

Better yet, maybe Santicola should just quit popping off. He's doing nothing to make himself, his client, or Roethlisberger come off as even remotely sympathetic.

UPDATE: Several of you have raised in the comments that Roethlisberger would have had no way of knowing that the alleged victim was under 21. As explained by the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette on March 7, persons under the age of 21 are permitted to enter the bars but not drink. Those over the age of 21 wear a wristband. The nightclub at which the alleged incident occurred is believed to be "one of the stricter enforcers" of that policy. So if the alleged victim had testified that she wasn't wearing a wristband, that Roethlisberger gave her alcohol, and that she was close enough to Roethlisberger for him to see that she had no wristband, a conviction could have been obtained -- unless he were willing to take the stand in his own defense and testify that he didn't see that she didn't have a wristband.

Atlanta Dan
10-14-2010, 11:27 PM
so how do you suppose he avoided not be cited for providing alchohol to a minor ? i'm sure it would have had to come up at some time during the investigation :noidea:

Comes back to PR and being a pain in the neck to prove - the DA not going after the alleged sexual assault but charging him with misdemeanor providing booze to minors would have looked like a joke. And Roethlisberger could just say he was buying rounds and not keeping track of who might be taking their older friends drinks - not as easy to prove as Mom & Dad buying a kegger for a high school party at their house . As for Bright saying he needed to also prosecute the girl, that is bullshit - he could claim she gota pass to make the case against Roethloisberger as a cooperating witness or simply recommend she get pretrial diversion..

Plus if he went after Roethlisberger he would have needed to go after the bars for the same thing and the bars are: 1) big business for Milledgevile; and 2) apparently have some clout (e.g. - the DA did not go after the bar for scrubbing down the restroom the next morning even though it still was the scene of an active criminal investigation)

MasterOfPuppets
10-14-2010, 11:32 PM
Comes back to PR and being a pain in the neck to prove - the DA not going after the alleged sexual assault but charging him with misdemeanor providing booze to minors would have looked like a joke. And Roethlisberger could just say he was buying rounds and not keeping track of who might be taking their older friends drinks - not as easy to prove as Mom & Dad buying a kegger for a high school party at their house . As for Bright saying he needed to also prosecute the girl, that is bullshit - he could claim she got pass to make the case against Roethloisberger as a cooperating witness or simply recommend she get pretrial diversion..

Plus if he went after Roethlisberger he would have needed to go after the bars for the same thing and the bars are: 1) big business for Milledgevile; and 2) apparently have some clout (e.g. - the DA did not go after the bar for scrubbing down the restroom the next morning even though it still was the scene of an active criminal investigation)
ahhh...the old covering up the pecker tracks trick ....:tap:

zulater
10-14-2010, 11:39 PM
Christ if buying an underage girl( as in 18-21) a drink in a nightclub is a crime you'd end up having 70% of the straight male population in the lock-up at some time in their life. What a load of bullshit. why are we even discussing this?

MasterOfPuppets
10-14-2010, 11:43 PM
Christ if buying an underage girl( as in 18-21) a drink in a nightclub is a crime you'd end up having 70% of the straight male population in the lock-up at some time in their life. What a load of bullshit. why are we even discussing this?
brett favre .....:popcorn:

Atlanta Dan
10-14-2010, 11:44 PM
Christ if buying an underage girl( as in 18-21) a drink in a nightclub is a crime you'd end up having 70% of the straight male population in the lock-up at some time in their life. What a load of bullshit. why are we even discussing this?

No disagreement from me that it is a bullshit crime at least in the context of buying a drink for someone who has been allowed to enter the bar :drink: But at least it is a clearly described crime as opposed to a vague "personal code of conduct" and relates to the topic of this thread regarding how much discretion officials (DAs and Goodell) have if they really want to take someone down for something or let them skate

lionslicer
10-14-2010, 11:45 PM
Christ if buying an underage girl( as in 18-21) a drink in a nightclub is a crime you'd end up having 70% of the straight male population in the lock-up at some time in their life. What a load of bullshit. why are we even discussing this?

Generally its a crime against the nightclubs owner, but the person who bought the underage girls a drink is also in trouble.
I know way too many dudes who have paid fines, spent time in jail and on probation for this stuff.
Guys usually are spart enough to be like "don't tell anyone I got you this" But when you get video taped doing it, you're pretty screwed.

SteelersinCA
10-15-2010, 12:48 AM
Christ if buying an underage girl( as in 18-21) a drink in a nightclub is a crime you'd end up having 70% of the straight male population in the lock-up at some time in their life. What a load of bullshit. why are we even discussing this?

Not every crime results in arrest, i.e. speeding tickets, parking tickets.

Atlanta Dan
10-15-2010, 08:55 AM
Jason Whitlock states better than I can that Goodell will handle the Favre mess in whatever manner causes the minimal amount of bad pub for the league

9. Maybe NFL owners or network TV executives finally informed Roger Goodell his primary job as commissioner is to act as executive producer of America's No. 1 TV drama rather than impersonate Law & Order's Lennie Briscoe.

Whatever the cause, Goodell is appropriately pumping the brakes on the Brett Favre investigation, giving Favre and Jenn Sterger time to work out a $ettlement.

There is no other explanation for Goodell's lack of interest in interviewing Favre. Someone informed the commish that his role as the league's morality police is interfering with his primary job of conducting business.

You think FOX, ESPN, CBS and NBC want Brett Favre suspended for chasing tail? Hell no. You think Vikings owner Zygi Wilf -- one of Goodell's bosses -- wants Favre suspended? Hell no.

Favre is Tony Soprano, a fascinating, complex, flawed character and proven ratings-driver.

If I'm Wilf, Jerry Jones or any NFL owner, I demand that Goodell pay Sterger to go away. It's good business.

Goodell continuing in the role as head of Internal Affairs is bad business. Goodell needs to delegate the role to someone he can easily compromise and blame for inevitable inconsistencies. Too much of Goodell's integrity is tied to how he handles disciplining players. Every player in the league is looking at Goodell, wondering if he'll be as tough on Favre as he was on Big Ben.

http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/big-ben-roethlisberger-will-dominate-in-pittsburgh-steelers-return-jason-whitlock-truths-101410

lionslicer
10-15-2010, 09:11 AM
SO even if the whole thing is a fraud to get money, Favre should still be suspended? This is what is completely stupid about the whole situation. Everyone wants Favre to be treated as tough as Ben, who still was proven to do something wrong though he wasn't proven to have raped anyone.



If the whole thing is fake, Favre should still be suspended because its the right thing to do... :noidea:
No one has even considered the idea that he's innocent or the accuser is lying.

But maybe I'm wrong... Maybe he asked to have himself framed, like in the old testament when it says women who are raped were asking for it..........


http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/10/14/mike-ditka-has-absolutely-zero-sympathy-for-jenn-sterger/


And did anyone notice how she's holding out for a settlement other than taking Brett to court? Its obviously about money and she could care less if Favre actually gets in trouble for it

Atlanta Dan
10-15-2010, 11:13 AM
SO even if the whole thing is a fraud to get money, Favre should still be suspended? This is what is completely stupid about the whole situation. Everyone wants Favre to be treated as tough as Ben, who still was proven to do something wrong though he wasn't proven to have raped anyone.



If the whole thing is fake, Favre should still be suspended because its the right thing to do... :noidea:
No one has even considered the idea that he's innocent or the accuser is lying.

But maybe I'm wrong... Maybe he asked to have himself framed, like in the old testament when it says women who are raped were asking for it..........


http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/10/14/mike-ditka-has-absolutely-zero-sympathy-for-jenn-sterger/


And did anyone notice how she's holding out for a settlement other than taking Brett to court? Its obviously about money and she could care less if Favre actually gets in trouble for it

Come on - read my posts - a "fraud to get money" presumably would mean she claimed the screen shot was Brett when it is someone else

If she sat on this hoping it would go away but now has been outed because the screen shot went viral after she forwarded it to someone else the fact remains if Favre sent the shot he is liable for the consequences

My point is if Favre sent the shot Goodell has a motive to just get this story to go the hell away

As far as the "sideline reporter" not cooperating, the Milledgeville "victim" quit cooperating and I will bet got a civil settlement from Roethlisberger -- was that a "fraud to get money"?

Getting back to my earlier question, exactly what was Roethlisberger "proven" to have done wrong that was a groud for the suspension and how much "proof" would you require to justify a suspension of Favre?

Just asking

lionslicer
10-15-2010, 11:42 AM
Come on - read my posts - a "fraud to get money" presumably would mean she claimed the screen shot was Brett when it is someone else

If she sat on this hoping it would go away but now has been outed because the screen shot went viral after she forwarded it to someone else the fact remains if Favre sent the shot he is liable for the consequences

My point is if Favre sent the shot Goodell has a motive to just get this story to go the hell away

As far as the "sideline reporter" not cooperating, the Milledgeville "victim" quit cooperating and I will bet got a civil settlement from Roethlisberger -- was that a "fraud to get money"?

Getting back to my earlier question, exactly what was Roethlisberger "proven" to have done wrong that was a groud for the suspension and how much "proof" would you require to justify a suspension of Favre?

Just asking

Ray Lewis had a suit filed against him about the murder and paid a settlement, so did OJ, even though they were found innocent.

Ben did buy alcohol for girls without asking their ages in an atempt to get laid, and some of which were underage. I just found this out not too long ago. Thats what he got punishment from the league from. Now many players have done this in the past and haven't gotten suspended (Ray Lewis was in a bad situation and it was his fault even though he was found innocent, he did admit to witnessing the murder) but because the league has been noted for suspended black players more than whites, Ben was somewhat used as an example, but it wasn't unjustified.

If Favre didn't send the shot what will happen to him? Thats my question, everyone is attacking him saying he did it and should be suspended, even if he didn't do it he should be suspended because Ben was suspended because he didn't rape a girl, but the fact was he was suspended because of his outrages behavior which the NFL does not tolerate.

Atlanta Dan
10-15-2010, 12:20 PM
I do not believe anyone is claiming Favre should be disciplined if he did not send the screen shot to the woman

But as far as facilitating underage drinking being grounds for discipline, please refresh my memory as to how much time off Matt Leinart got for this incident

Matt Leinart and Nick Lachey contributing to the delinquency of minors.

http://thedirty.com/2008/04/matt-leinart-and-nick-lachey-contribute-to-the-delinquency-of-minors/

Matt Leinart doing his Matt Leinart thing. The Dirty has details of this whole evening, which included Nick Lachey, under-21 ladies and, of course, hot tubs.

http://deadspin.com/373940/matt-leinart-is-taking-his-offseason-film-work-quite-seriously

Further indication Goodell makes up his rules as he goes along

lionslicer
10-15-2010, 12:48 PM
I do not believe anyone is claiming Favre should be disciplined if he did not send the screen shot to the woman

But as far as facilitating underage drinking being grounds for discipline, please refresh my memory as to how much time off Matt Leinart got for this incident

Matt Leinart and Nick Lachey contributing to the delinquency of minors.

http://thedirty.com/2008/04/matt-leinart-and-nick-lachey-contribute-to-the-delinquency-of-minors/

Matt Leinart doing his Matt Leinart thing. The Dirty has details of this whole evening, which included Nick Lachey, under-21 ladies and, of course, hot tubs.

http://deadspin.com/373940/matt-leinart-is-taking-his-offseason-film-work-quite-seriously

Further indication Goodell makes up his rules as he goes along

Whats the arguement? That the NFL will only pick on players with more recognition? Thats true obviously. Matt's situation wasn't hyped up by the media, and because of that the NFL didn't feel it was necesary to suspend him because no one would view less or more of him being suspended. Ben's situation was hyped because of how big of a player he is, if the NFL didn't suspend him they'd be viewed down upon....

And yes there are people who think Favre should be suspended even if he is innocent because Ben was innocent and still was suspended even though they don't understand that the NFL suspended him on other things...

You're attacking Goodell, I'm not defending him, but you're argueing with me about this from a completely different stand point. I'm argueing Bretts Innocence and why he isn't suspended yet and why Ben was.

Atlanta Dan
10-16-2010, 09:32 AM
Whats the arguement? That the NFL will only pick on players with more recognition? Thats true obviously. Matt's situation wasn't hyped up by the media, and because of that the NFL didn't feel it was necesary to suspend him because no one would view less or more of him being suspended. Ben's situation was hyped because of how big of a player he is, if the NFL didn't suspend him they'd be viewed down upon....

And yes there are people who think Favre should be suspended even if he is innocent because Ben was innocent and still was suspended even though they don't understand that the NFL suspended him on other things...

You're attacking Goodell, I'm not defending him, but you're argueing with me about this from a completely different stand point. I'm argueing Bretts Innocence and why he isn't suspended yet and why Ben was.

Sorry you did not like the topic of my thread and decided to run with one of your choosing

I started this thread by asking if Goodell is going to go after Favre with the same vigor and application of subjective standards of "wrongdoing" he applied to Roethlisberger's conduct

Here is a very interesting article on the sexting controversy someone who has spent sometime with Favre - based on this article the writer appears to believe Favre did it but is uncertain what the response should be

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/10/15/AR2010101502801.html

Assuming, hypothetically, there is evidence Favre sent the screen shot do you believe he should be disciplined by Goodell if the "standards" applied to Roethlisberger's case are applied to Favre?

Lady Steel
10-16-2010, 09:53 AM
I agree with the poster(s) who said the Commissioner's investigation just may be a long, drawn out affair. If that is not the case, however, and Favre is suspended at least four games as the precedent has been set (although I have my doubts he will be), I predict Favre will retire. For real this time. Or at least until next season. :chuckle:

SteelersinCA
10-16-2010, 11:51 PM
Sorry you did not like the topic of my thread and decided to run with one of your choosing

I started this thread by asking if Goodell is going to go after Favre with the same vigor and application of subjective standards of "wrongdoing" he applied to Roethlisberger's conduct

Here is a very interesting article on the sexting controversy someone who has spent sometime with Favre - based on this article the writer appears to believe Favre did it but is uncertain what the response should be

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/10/15/AR2010101502801.html

Assuming, hypothetically, there is evidence Favre sent the screen shot do you believe he should be disciplined by Goodell if the "standards" applied to Roethlisberger's case are applied to Favre?

I guess my question is, what do you believe the standards to be? I don't think there are any standards per se other than no criminal charges have to be filed in order for the NFL to take action under the personal conduct policy. Beyond that, I'm at a loss for what "standards" are out there.

I just don't see the comparison between Ben and Brett. What if he's fined? It seems to me people are saying he should be suspended, which is mind boggling.

Atlanta Dan
10-17-2010, 08:30 AM
I guess my question is, what do you believe the standards to be? I don't think there are any standards per se other than no criminal charges have to be filed in order for the NFL to take action under the personal conduct policy. Beyond that, I'm at a loss for what "standards" are out there.

I just don't see the comparison between Ben and Brett. What if he's fined? It seems to me people are saying he should be suspended, which is mind boggling.

Ummm - if you read the thread that is my point - the standards are totally subjective
and therefore there is no reason Goodell cannot take action against Favre

1. Facilitating minors drinking alcohol? There are photos of Matt Leinart holding the beer bong while an underage woman is drinking fro it and nothing happened

2. Require at least an arrest warrant or indictment to be returned? - nope - Roethlisberger is the only player to be suspended without failing a drug test or being arrested

3. Physical evidence of sexual harassment? - none in Roethlisberger's case whereas we have the screen shot in Favre's case and the statement of the woman to Deadspin earlier this year that it came from Favre and that she did not ask Favre to pleasse send a photo of his genitals to her

It comes down to does it embarrass the image of the league - I think that is a nonsensical standard but if Roethlisberger got 4 games it would seem Favre gets more than a reprimand if "allegedly engaging in unwelcome sexual advances that lead to bad PR for the league" is the test - which appears to be what brought Roethlisberger down

Stu Pidasso
10-17-2010, 10:52 AM
What I find curious is that some of you people think that Good-deal was the only one who had input regarding Ben's suspension. I still think Ben's suspension was the Rooney's idea, or at least it was "discussed" by the Rooney family and Good-deal. Brett does not play for the Steelers.

Atlanta Dan
10-17-2010, 11:22 AM
What I find curious is that some of you people think that Good-deal was the only one who had input regarding Ben's suspension. I still think Ben's suspension was the Rooney's idea, or at least it was "discussed" by the Rooney family and Good-deal. Brett does not play for the Steelers.

It was discussed with the Rooneys but it was a Goodell production - Steelers have suspended players on their own initiative (Holmes) and could have done it here but did not do so

For whatever reason Goodell wanted to be out front on Roethlisberger so now he gets to answer questions at halftime of yesterday's Notre Dame game as to what he is going to do about Favre given that he has appointed himself chief of the sexual misconduct police for the NFL

SteelersinCA
10-17-2010, 08:31 PM
Ummm - if you read the thread that is my point - the standards are totally subjective
and therefore there is no reason Goodell cannot take action against Favre

1. Facilitating minors drinking alcohol? There are photos of Matt Leinart holding the beer bong while an underage woman is drinking fro it and nothing happened

2. Require at least an arrest warrant or indictment to be returned? - nope - Roethlisberger is the only player to be suspended without failing a drug test or being arrested

3. Physical evidence of sexual harassment? - none in Roethlisberger's case whereas we have the screen shot in Favre's case and the statement of the woman to Deadspin earlier this year that it came from Favre and that she did not ask Favre to pleasse send a photo of his genitals to her

It comes down to does it embarrass the image of the league - I think that is a nonsensical standard but if Roethlisberger got 4 games it would seem Favre gets more than a reprimand if "allegedly engaging in unwelcome sexual advances that lead to bad PR for the league" is the test - which appears to be what brought Roethlisberger down

If the standards are subjective, that's all Goodell needs not to take action. Reason would come in if it were objective.

You have alleged evidence it was Favre. There was evidence in Ben's case just not enough to support a claim of rape. There was plenty of evidence in Ben's case, (anyone remember the vaginal bruising???) just because charges weren't filed doesn't mean the case was devoid of any and all evidence. Similarly, like someone already pointed out, the DA isn't going to drop it from a rape case to a contributing to the delinquency of a minor case. You guys want to compare these two situations like they are apples to apples and they couldn't be further from it.

Goodell isn't locked into anything. As Steeler fans we may think he is, but he's not. If Favre goes unpunished, which I bet he will, no one will be pissed except for Steelers fans.

MasterOfPuppets
10-17-2010, 10:43 PM
If the standards are subjective, that's all Goodell needs not to take action. Reason would come in if it were objective.

You have alleged evidence it was Favre. There was evidence in Ben's case just not enough to support a claim of rape. There was plenty of evidence in Ben's case, (anyone remember the vaginal bruising???) just because charges weren't filed doesn't mean the case was devoid of any and all evidence. Similarly, like someone already pointed out, the DA isn't going to drop it from a rape case to a contributing to the delinquency of a minor case. You guys want to compare these two situations like they are apples to apples and they couldn't be further from it.

Goodell isn't locked into anything. As Steeler fans we may think he is, but he's not. If Favre goes unpunished, which I bet he will, no one will be pissed except for Steelers fans.
evidence that sex took place and evidence that rape took place are two different things. i don't recall ben denying there was sexual contact in this case or the other one.
from what i read the "victim" , when first asked if she was raped said no... then she said , i don't know. apparantley it took her friends to convince her she was raped.
the part that i found very strange was that she remembered all the details before , the body guards roll , the exposed meat , the "attempted" getaway , etc.... but she couldn't give any details about the sex act itself , like the positioning the sex took place in ...:noidea:

SteelersinCA
10-18-2010, 03:07 AM
evidence that sex took place and evidence that rape took place are two different things. i don't recall ben denying there was sexual contact in this case or the other one.
from what i read the "victim" , when first asked if she was raped said no... then she said , i don't know. apparantley it took her friends to convince her she was raped.
the part that i found very strange was that she remembered all the details before , the body guards roll , the exposed meat , the "attempted" getaway , etc.... but she couldn't give any details about the sex act itself , like the positioning the sex took place in ...:noidea:

You're right there is a difference. But what evidence, at all is there in favre's case? Nothing? OK. That's my point. Let's not act like the two are evidentially, or in any other manner, equivalent.

Atlanta Dan
10-18-2010, 09:08 AM
You're right there is a difference. But what evidence, at all is there in favre's case? Nothing? OK. That's my point. Let's not act like the two are evidentially, or in any other manner, equivalent.

There is there is a screen shot of Favre's privates and no apparent dispute it ended up being transmitted to teh "sideline reporter" by someone

The recipient of the sceen shot pretty clearly told Deadspin they were Favre's privates (that would be inadmisssible hearsay in a trial if you are using Deadspin rather than Sterger as the source of the testimony but Goodell certainly is not bound by the Federal Rules of Evidence, given his apparent reliance in part upon what the sorority sisters told the Georgia Bureau of Investigation the "victim" told the sorority sisters had happened).

As far as "equivalent," if the screen shot was sent by Favre and was not requested by the recipient and the Milledgeville student consented to sexual activity and then changed her mind (both not unreasonable interpretations of events) which is more objectionable?

This is what happens when Goodell goes beyond bright line tests (flunk drug test/be arrested or indicted) and imposes more subjectve tests of "misconduct."

If he would have left it to the Rooneys to discipline Roethlisberger he could say what Favre did is not a matter for the league office and then it becomes a matter of the Vikings having different standards (for which there is precedent - e.g. - for two incidents of misconduct not subject to discilaine under the collective bargaining agreement because they involved first offenses for substance abuse, Tomlin sits Holmes for a game after he is stopped in 2008 by the Pittsburgh cops for pot while the Jets let Braylon Edwards play after being stopped for DWI). But since Goodell asserted his authority with Roethlisberger for conduct that has never previously been grounds for a suspensiuon, now Goodell needs to explain why he is not asserting it here as the NFL attempts to increase fan support among women

And according to Peter King Goodell now may get some more on his plate with regard to Brett tat does not involve any arrest or indictment but certainly would apear to involve allegations of unwelcome sexual advances

I think the word on the street is the two masseuses in the Favre case are getting lawyered up and may emerge to make some charges in the case this week.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2010/writers/peter_king/10/17/mmqb/5.html

Stanley
10-18-2010, 10:50 AM
The issue is really simple even though Goodell is pretending that it's complicated.

It really doesn't matter whether Jen Sterger cooperates with the investigation or not or whether she files charges or not. The only consideration should be whether the photos are legitimate or not and whether or not Favre sent them.

If the alleged photos are fake, then the Commissioner should say so and drop the matter. If the photos are legitimate, Favre has violated the League's personal conduct policy and should be suspended and forced to undergo counciling.

:coffee:

lionslicer
10-18-2010, 11:33 AM
There is there is a screen shot of Favre's privates and no apparent dispute it ended up being transmitted to teh "sideline reporter" by someone


So you know what Favre's privates look like?

There isn't any evidence linking Favre to anything yet.

Though I read that legal experts agree with you that Goodell can not give out discipline because the conduct policy only talks about sexual harrasment. Favre, even if he sent pictures, there's no proof of sexual harrasment at all in this situation because Favre is not her employer and sending naked pictures through text and email is protected under the the first admendment.

Ben has a unique situation because he wasn't proven of sexual harrasment, he did break other league conduct rules by breaking a law, supplying alcohol to minors, even though he wasn't found guilty of this. Now the NFL didn't have to suspend him, the Rooneys could have done what they wanted with him, but Goodell felt like Ben had to be made as an example to prove the NFL isn't racist. Do I agree? No, but was it the right thing to do? Yes because the NFL was under a lot of heat to hand out some discipline to Ben.

With Favre, the NFL is not allowed to enforce discipline on him because he isn't breaking any true NFL conduct rule. Its a matter of the Jets to hand out discipline. Unless they find evidence that there is sexual harrasment, then the NFL can discipline him.

Atlanta Dan
10-18-2010, 12:20 PM
So you know what Favre's privates look like?

There isn't any evidence linking Favre to anything yet.

Though I read that legal experts agree with you that Goodell can not give out discipline because the conduct policy only talks about sexual harrasment. Favre, even if he sent pictures, there's no proof of sexual harrasment at all in this situation because Favre is not her employer and sending naked pictures through text and email is protected under the the first admendment.

Ben has a unique situation because he wasn't proven of sexual harrasment, he did break other league conduct rules by breaking a law, supplying alcohol to minors, even though he wasn't found guilty of this. Now the NFL didn't have to suspend him, the Rooneys could have done what they wanted with him, but Goodell felt like Ben had to be made as an example to prove the NFL isn't racist. Do I agree? No, but was it the right thing to do? Yes because the NFL was under a lot of heat to hand out some discipline to Ben.

With Favre, the NFL is not allowed to enforce discipline on him because he isn't breaking any true NFL conduct rule. Its a matter of the Jets to hand out discipline. Unless they find evidence that there is sexual harrasment, then the NFL can discipline him.

If I send an unsolicited screen shot of my private parts to a women, regardless of whether or not she is a co-worker, I am fairly confident that woman has a civil cause of action for harassment against me - the First Amendment bars government from passing a law restricting the content of speech that the Governent can enforce - it does not give you or me a right to communicate anything to anyone and be immune from civil liability for the consequences, which can be redressed through a private cause of action.

The employment relationship is required for a sexual harassment action under Title VII of the 1964 Civil Rights Act for creating a hostile work environment - if Peter King is correct the Jets therapists are getting lawyered up that might take care of workplace related harassment.

And thanks for the inquiry about whether I know what Favre's genitals look like - I am simply passing along what Deadspin printed, which it has stated is based upon what Sterger told Deadspin - if these accusations were made against me and I did not send the screen shot or tell Deadspin I had received the screen shot i would sue Deadspin for libel - why do you believe Favre or Sterger are not threaening legal action agsint Deadspin - any possibility it might be because if Favre or Sterger sued Deadspin that both of them could be put under oath in a deposition and then face a perjury charge if they lied aboiut what happened - just wondering.

And just to close the loop, if Roethlisberger got suspened for providing alcohol to minors and Matt Leinart did not, would you agree that represents disparate treatment of two individuals by Goodell for engaging in the same conduct?

MasterOfPuppets
10-18-2010, 03:28 PM
You're right there is a difference. But what evidence, at all is there in favre's case? Nothing? OK. That's my point. Let's not act like the two are evidentially, or in any other manner, equivalent.
au contraire mon frere ... each has an accusation , and both cast the shield in a negative light. :wink02:

lionslicer
10-18-2010, 04:59 PM
If I send an unsolicited screen shot of my private parts to a women, regardless of whether or not she is a co-worker, I am fairly confident that woman has a civil cause of action for harassment against me - the First Amendment bars government from passing a law restricting the content of speech that the Governent can enforce - it does not give you or me a right to communicate anything to anyone and be immune from civil liability for the consequences, which can be redressed through a private cause of action.

The employment relationship is required for a sexual harassment action under Title VII of the 1964 Civil Rights Act for creating a hostile work environment - if Peter King is correct the Jets therapists are getting lawyered up that might take care of workplace related harassment.

And thanks for the inquiry about whether I know what Favre's genitals look like - I am simply passing along what Deadspin printed, which it has stated is based upon what Sterger told Deadspin - if these accusations were made against me and I did not send the screen shot or tell Deadspin I had received the screen shot i would sue Deadspin for libel - why do you believe Favre or Sterger are not threaening legal action agsint Deadspin - any possibility it might be because if Favre or Sterger sued Deadspin that both of them could be put under oath in a deposition and then face a perjury charge if they lied aboiut what happened - just wondering.

And just to close the loop, if Roethlisberger got suspened for providing alcohol to minors and Matt Leinart did not, would you agree that represents disparate treatment of two individuals by Goodell for engaging in the same conduct?

That woman has the right to file a civil suit, and she could win if she could prove you showed her your privates. Civil cases go against the law a lot. Like OJ getting sued for killing his wife and losing even though he was found innocent in a federal court. Which goes against the 5th amendment.

The thing with the workplace issue is that it was the Jets workplace, and women who go into NFL facilities sign a release that they know there could be harrasment due to the adrenaline and testosterone flowing through the players walking around.
And they must comfront the Jets management immediately if anything goes wrong, which they didn't.

Also it can't be sexual harrasment if the woman welcomed what was said to her and asked for the photos.
If the NFL doesn't like that Favre cheated on his wife with 3 women, they can't do anything because it is not written up in the conduct rules that he is not allowed to do that. But because he was getting it on with employees in the workplace, the Jets would be responsible for the discipline, but he isn't part of their organization anymore, so all they can do is fine him.

And thats if photos and anything else is true, it could all be a lie. And they aren't gonna waiste their time sueing deadspin.,,

And I said Ben was made an example of, I didn't say Goodell was right to do it or not... Plus it was before Ben was in trouble and the NFL wasn't presured to suspend a white player.
Its wrong and Goodell is an idiot who can't run the NFL correctly...

And just so you know There was no evidence against Matt. The cops believed the girls were supplied alcohol by someone else and Matt just happened to be drinking with them, which isn't a crime in Arizona, nor is it in the nfl code of conduct.

SteelersinCA
10-18-2010, 05:21 PM
If I send an unsolicited screen shot of my private parts to a women, regardless of whether or not she is a co-worker, I am fairly confident that woman has a civil cause of action for harassment against me - the First Amendment bars government from passing a law restricting the content of speech that the Governent can enforce - it does not give you or me a right to communicate anything to anyone and be immune from civil liability for the consequences, which can be redressed through a private cause of action.

The employment relationship is required for a sexual harassment action under Title VII of the 1964 Civil Rights Act for creating a hostile work environment - if Peter King is correct the Jets therapists are getting lawyered up that might take care of workplace related harassment.

And thanks for the inquiry about whether I know what Favre's genitals look like - I am simply passing along what Deadspin printed, which it has stated is based upon what Sterger told Deadspin - if these accusations were made against me and I did not send the screen shot or tell Deadspin I had received the screen shot i would sue Deadspin for libel - why do you believe Favre or Sterger are not threaening legal action agsint Deadspin - any possibility it might be because if Favre or Sterger sued Deadspin that both of them could be put under oath in a deposition and then face a perjury charge if they lied aboiut what happened - just wondering.

And just to close the loop, if Roethlisberger got suspened for providing alcohol to minors and Matt Leinart did not, would you agree that represents disparate treatment of two individuals by Goodell for engaging in the same conduct?

While Peter King is a tremendous sports writer, I'd like to know how it can be sexual harassment when they were independent contractors?? I'm pretty sure that right there solves that issue. People get lawyered up all the time looking for a pay day. Doesn't mean one will be forthcoming, or that their position is solid.

I would think the court would be hard pressed to find one incident of naked pictures to be harassment. Similarly, if your neighbor and yourself have one issue you aren't getting a restarining order until it becomes a pattern or your life is in danger. Certainly, no one is claiming Favre's penis is life threatening :chuckle:

More people coming forward certainly changes the game, but until they do we are stuck with the specifics of Jenn Sterger. At this point we would be remiss to ignore the fact that this is 1 incident with Favre and it was Ben's second.

As far as which is worse, the unfortunate part of sexual activity the instantaneous nature with which it changes renders it infinitely worse. Does anyone remember Kobe? It was consensual until he dropped it in her poop chute. Perhaps Ben and Drinky McS*l*u*t*terson were engaged in some sort of consensual activity and he tried something she didn't want, who knows? I'd rather get pictures of genitals than drop my soap in the general vicinity of someone like, say, MOP! :drink: :wink02:

Atlanta Dan
10-18-2010, 06:24 PM
.
Its wrong and Goodell is an idiot who can't run the NFL correctly....

:thumbsup::drink: