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SteelKnight
10-12-2010, 10:20 PM
I hate to say it but Downbylaw might have been right about his CBs in different systems.

William Gay has looked great as a nickel CB where he plays man D. Maybe he is just good at playing man D and he gets confused by Lebeau's zone coverage and is not good at trying to make up ground.

So it is possible some other CBs who are good in man (like Revis and Cromartie) would not like our system.

It makes me wonder about which of our corners might be great man D CBs.

I'm glad we kept Gay. I wanted him cut after last season.

Any thoughts?

Fire Arians
10-12-2010, 10:23 PM
gay definitely seems great as the nickel guy and I also wanted him cut, but glad we ended up keeping him. I'm not sure who would be good man coverage players, but i think crezdon butler is a perfect zone corner. he may be a star in our system, in college he was a ball hawk who was really good at jumping routes from zone coverage. in his senior year his stock dropped because his stats went down considerably. but a huge reason is because qb's weren't throwing at him at all (in the first 4 games he was only thrown at 5 times), which says something. this guy might have been a steal at the round we got him at.

SteelKnight
10-12-2010, 10:50 PM
gay definitely seems great as the nickel guy and I also wanted him cut, but glad we ended up keeping him. I'm not sure who would be good man coverage players, but i think crezdon butler is a perfect zone corner. he may be a star in our system, in college he was a ball hawk who was really good at jumping routes from zone coverage. in his senior year his stock dropped because his stats went down considerably. but a huge reason is because qb's weren't throwing at him at all (in the first 4 games he was only thrown at 5 times), which says something. this guy might have been a steal at the round we got him at.

Glad to hear. He looked good.

I sort of felt bad for B-mac. That was a lot for him to cover. He has to stand 10 yards back and allow the short flats, make solo tackles and STILL cover long out and in? I think if he could have just stayed on Housh the whole time he would have been able to provide tighter coverage.

SH-Rock
10-12-2010, 10:53 PM
gay definitely seems great as the nickel guy and I also wanted him cut, but glad we ended up keeping him. I'm not sure who would be good man coverage players, but i think crezdon butler is a perfect zone corner. he may be a star in our system, in college he was a ball hawk who was really good at jumping routes from zone coverage. in his senior year his stock dropped because his stats went down considerably. but a huge reason is because qb's weren't throwing at him at all (in the first 4 games he was only thrown at 5 times), which says something. this guy might have been a steal at the round we got him at.

Now that Big Ben is back, expect more experimentation from Lebeau

SteelKnight
10-12-2010, 10:53 PM
BTW...Steelers don't seem to move anybody now. They just stay in their zones so if teams decide that BMac is the weakest, they can just send their best WR to his zone. It's not like before when we would say Ike covers the opponents best WR.

kirklandrules
10-13-2010, 06:52 AM
I sort of felt bad for B-mac. That was a lot for him to cover. He has to stand 10 yards back and allow the short flats, make solo tackles and STILL cover long out and in? I think if he could have just stayed on Housh the whole time he would have been able to provide tighter coverage.

I thought B-mac may have misunderstood his responsibilities on that play. Troy came on the blitz and B-mac seemed to play as if he had help in the deep middle. Or maybe Clark was supposed to be there and wasn't. B-mac was playing his 3rd of the field and when Housh went to the middle B-mac made little effort to stay with him. That's the problem with criticizing individual players ... fans don't know the play call and we don't know exactly who has what responsibilities.

SteelKnight
10-13-2010, 08:11 AM
I thought B-mac may have misunderstood his responsibilities on that play. Troy came on the blitz and B-mac seemed to play as if he had help in the deep middle. Or maybe Clark was supposed to be there and wasn't. B-mac was playing his 3rd of the field and when Housh went to the middle B-mac made little effort to stay with him. That's the problem with criticizing individual players ... fans don't know the play call and we don't know exactly who has what responsibilities.

They showed that they ran the same play 3 times where Housh went outside. Housh says he ad libed the play and cut it inside. BMac bit on the outside then tried to recover. That space was wide open and even f he had caught it short outside, only B-mac was there to make the tackle. I guess you really have to be a sure tackler.

Housh is a good veteran player. Funny thing is when they got him I mentioned it and some fan tried to say he would make no difference or something like that. I'm sure that person won't admit it now. lol

ramblinjim
10-13-2010, 08:18 AM
Housh is one of those crafty vets who's going to have a career like Clayton and Derrick Mason, he knows how to get open, has good hands and barring a serious injury still has a great deal left in the tank. He was an excellent pickup for the Felons.

Bmac's biggest strength IIRC wasn't speed, so playing man coverage down the field was never going to be his strength, he has pretty decent hands and is a good tackler that can also support the run. In Lebeau's system, that's what you're looking for in a CB, not necessarily a lock-down, shut down half of the field type of Corner.

Gay has been exceptional as the Nickel, count me among the throngs that said he should have been cut. D'oh!

wootawnee
10-13-2010, 05:15 PM
Mc Fadden needs to go and forget all the things he learned out in Arizona........They suck.......

SteelKnight
10-16-2010, 04:23 AM
Mc Fadden needs to go and forget all the things he learned out in Arizona........They suck.......

McFadden does get beat a bunch. In the Tenn game, they would have tied it (possibly with 2 pt conv) if Clark hadn't stepped in after Nate beat BMac.

MattsMe
10-16-2010, 04:42 AM
I hate to say it but Downbylaw might have been right


You lost me right there. Couldn't read any further.

Maybe I'll come back later and see what this thread's about.

Steeldude
10-16-2010, 06:53 PM
Mc Fadden needs to go and forget all the things he learned out in Arizona........They suck.......

he sucked before leaving for AZ and he hasn't shown any improvement yet. he needs to be placed in nickel packages ASAP also.

Riddle_Of_Steel
10-16-2010, 07:19 PM
he sucked before leaving for AZ and he hasn't shown any improvement yet. he needs to be placed in nickel packages ASAP also.

Our defense was #1 against the pass in 2007 and 2008 for the first time since....I can't even remember when. And that was with McFadden and Ike Taylor (and William Gay starting at LCB for McFadden for 6 or 7 weeks during the 2008 season for that matter)....so how does he suck again?

BKAnthem
10-16-2010, 08:21 PM
I hate zone, prevent and anything associated with it...Colbert needs to start looking for some cover corners in future drafts and lets get at it....i know lebeau beens successful doing it his way blah,blah, blah......but to me a true corner locks his man down...

BKAnthem
10-16-2010, 08:23 PM
Our defense was #1 against the pass in 2007 and 2008 for the first time since....I can't even remember when. And that was with McFadden and Ike Taylor (and William Gay starting at LCB for McFadden for 6 or 7 weeks during the 2008 season for that matter)....so how does he suck again?

Mcadden doesn't suck but the success of their secondary depends on their blitz getting to the QB and making him force his throws or getting sacked....I would like to see it depend more on them straight up locking their man down...

lionslicer
10-16-2010, 08:45 PM
Mcadden doesn't suck but the success of their secondary depends on their blitz getting to the QB and making him force his throws or getting sacked....I would like to see it depend more on them straight up locking their man down...

Blitzing is one reason, but there were maning coverage sacks in 2008, so the secondary had to be doing a good job.

The Steeler defense doesn't rely heavily on man, more of a cover 2-3 scheme with the linebackers in different zones. Because of linebackers and D-linemen running around the field, a reciever could run by them, but the quarterback doesn't have time to think "Hey thats a linebacker/defensive lineman, he can't cover a reciever" So the quarterback quickly goes to his next option, and usually each option is covered, and before he can get the ball out he's sacked.
McFadden is a good coverage cornerback, but he makes some mistakes, people will get mad at him, but they'll thank him when the quarterback is standing in the pocket for 6-8 seconds and has no one to throw to and gets sacked by Harrison and fumbles the ball so Woodley picks it up and runs for a touchdown.

Steeldude
10-16-2010, 11:21 PM
Our defense was #1 against the pass in 2007 and 2008 for the first time since....I can't even remember when. And that was with McFadden and Ike Taylor (and William Gay starting at LCB for McFadden for 6 or 7 weeks during the 2008 season for that matter)....so how does he suck again?

it's called a pass rush.

if you recall mcfadden lost his starting job to gay that year. mcfadden didn't get his job back after returning from injury. in 2007 mcfadden was not a starter. he couldn't beat out the elderly townsend.

i do remember mcfadden getting burned quite a bit and committing a number of PI penalties.

statistically, in 2009 mcfadden was the the 2nd most burned CB in the NFL.

in 2001 the steelers had dewayne washington and chad scott as the starting CBs. they were average on a good day. the steelers had the 4th best pass defense that year.

as for this year, he does not look to be an upgrade at all. the ravens went to his side 3 plays in a row to win the game. i don't put the blame all on mcfadden. lebeau didn't really rush anyone the first two plays

Riddle_Of_Steel
10-17-2010, 02:08 AM
it's called a pass rush.

if you recall mcfadden lost his starting job to gay that year. mcfadden didn't get his job back after returning from injury. in 2007 mcfadden was not a starter. he couldn't beat out the elderly townsend.

i do remember mcfadden getting burned quite a bit and committing a number of PI penalties.

statistically, in 2009 mcfadden was the the 2nd most burned CB in the NFL.

in 2001 the steelers had dewayne washington and chad scott as the starting CBs. they were average on a good day. the steelers had the 4th best pass defense that year.

as for this year, he does not look to be an upgrade at all. the ravens went to his side 3 plays in a row to win the game. i don't put the blame all on mcfadden. lebeau didn't really rush anyone the first two plays

All true. Sorry, dude, if my last post came off wrong, like I was trying to punk you out. I wasn't-- just bringing up some additional points.

I just think folks are a bit harsh on Gay sometimes-- we give the rest of the defense a pass for 2009, but he gets the bad rap.

Lebeau's defense does not call for man-coverage on receivers. Matter of factly, I don't think it would work if our CBs were playing man coverage. It is predicated on taking away the long plays, which you cannot in any way guarantee if you are playing bump coverage adn trying to go step for step with the receivers. His defense calls for zone coverages (especially since zones are necessary to cover the areas vacated by defenders that are rushing the passer), and to stay behind the receivers.

We could maybe use bump coverage, but we would need all of our CBs to be Darrell Revis or Rod Woodson for that to work...

SteelKnight
10-17-2010, 05:07 PM
I hate zone, prevent and anything associated with it...Colbert needs to start looking for some cover corners in future drafts and lets get at it....i know lebeau beens successful doing it his way blah,blah, blah......but to me a true corner locks his man down...

I think he should toss in an occasional man to mix the offense up.