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ZoneBlitzer
10-14-2010, 11:28 PM
Okay, I am more than willing to give a player his due. I am not adverse to giving props to non-Steeler players and all. And I've enjoyed this Top 100 series for the most part.

When Rod Woodson was shown, I was somewhat relieved in knowing that Deion would never make it because in no possible universe could Deion be considered to be better than Rod.

Boy, was I wrong. He's listed at number 34 and he whined and complained about it too!
Yes, he was a shut-down corner and a great kick returner. But Deion couldn't tackle. He could not perform one of the game's most fundamental components. And thus, he really wasn't a complete player. Athlete, yes. Football player? No. It is a bloody travesty to see the arrogant and egotistical likes of him surpassing one of the finest corners of all time.

I think if I ever get a recording of this program, I'll just delete position 34 for sanity's sake.

lionslicer
10-14-2010, 11:52 PM
Really? You don't think he deserves to be there? He's probably only up there because of his return ability. He changed the game completely when it comes to returning interceptions and punts/kickoffs. I hate him as a person, but just because I hate him doesn't mean I don't respect him. You know Ray Lewis and Favre will be in the top 20, are you gonna hate on them too for being that far up?

Deion wasn't a good tackler true, but he wasn't big at all, Woodson was shorter and was more stocky, he could handle tackling more, though he wasn't too good at later in his career(he generally just put his shoulder down ran through guys, fundamentally not the best tackler either).
Deion could bat balls down and make interceptions on balls Superman couldn't even do. And if Deion was beat, his speed would allow him to catch up to the play. He's been beaten on the least amount of touchdowns of any corner playing 10+ years.
Woodson was beat on touchdowns and didn't have the speed or skills to stay that close to a reciever, and he was more physical, . Deion could litterally take recievers out of the game, no catches, nor even thrown to because he covered them so well and bearly touched them.

He's also one of the only players to score a touchdown 6 different ways. Punt, Kick, Fumble, receiving, rushing, interception, only 2 players in history did this, and he's one of them.
He also won the superbowl twice which probably gave him more votes than Woodson.

MattsMe
10-15-2010, 12:04 AM
Never cared for Sanders as a player, but he deserves this. He was an amazing athlete.

Woodson was one of my favorite Steelers, and I was really disappointed when he left. That being said, I have to agree with Sanders being just a little bit higher on this list.

tony hipchest
10-15-2010, 12:43 AM
sanders said whoever made the list should be smacked (i think REAL football heads such as john madden and gil brandt were involved).

sanders said he should be #4 behind jim brown, jerry rice, and the crackhead LT.

screw him. rod woodson humbly accepted his placement and admitted deion could have the #1 cb of all time title. he then jokingly suggested he was happy to be regarded as the best DB.

rod is right.

deion was nothing more than a hired gun on 2 all star teams that were still able to circumvent the brand new salary cap for a SB run. (both dallas and SF are still trying to recover).

other than highlights for atlanta, he never did shit for the other teams he played for (atlanta made their ONLY SB after he was gone)...

rod was instrumental in baltimore, steelers, AND raiders going to the big show.

rod was a more complete player. deion was more of a self promoting, conceited dick.

that is all.

ZoneBlitzer
10-15-2010, 12:50 AM
Really? You don't think he deserves to be there? He's probably only up there because of his return ability. He changed the game completely when it comes to returning interceptions and punts/kickoffs. I hate him as a person, but just because I hate him doesn't mean I don't respect him. You know Ray Lewis and Favre will be in the top 20, are you gonna hate on them too for being that far up?

Deion wasn't a good tackler true, but he wasn't big at all, Woodson was shorter and was more stocky, he could handle tackling more, though he wasn't too good at later in his career(he generally just put his shoulder down ran through guys, fundamentally not the best tackler either).
Deion could bat balls down and make interceptions on balls Superman couldn't even do. And if Deion was beat, his speed would allow him to catch up to the play. He's been beaten on the least amount of touchdowns of any corner playing 10+ years.
Woodson was beat on touchdowns and didn't have the speed or skills to stay that close to a reciever, and he was more physical, . Deion could litterally take recievers out of the game, no catches, nor even thrown to because he covered them so well and bearly touched them.

He's also one of the only players to score a touchdown 6 different ways. Punt, Kick, Fumble, receiving, rushing, interception, only 2 players in history did this, and he's one of them.
He also won the superbowl twice which probably gave him more votes than Woodson.

Yes, I suppose that's true about Deion's speed and all. But I still say Rod brought a healthy measure of that as well as the ability to tackle AND take it to the house. As far as Deion's SB titles - well he was a hired gun with very little loyalty to any team. He just wanted the money wherever he went.

As far as Ray and Favre, I like both of those players. What attracted me to the Steelers in the first place was the POSITION of MLB and in that position was Lambert. I LOVED the way Jack played that position and I have to say that I love the way that Ray plays it too. From what I've seen, Ray is arguably one of the best MLB to ever play the game.

Favre's legacy will be his incredible arm and his endurance. To play that position of QB where you are getting killed and to have that Iron Man streak is extraordinary. And, of course, he's got the magic touch. So, as much as I hate his waffling and boring press conferences, I have to give him props for being one of the all time greats.

MasterOfPuppets
10-15-2010, 01:25 AM
i'd take a woodson over a sanders anyday, just as i'd take troy over ed reed.

aNoC5yYQlHQ

lionslicer
10-15-2010, 01:53 AM
Yes, I suppose that's true about Deion's speed and all. But I still say Rod brought a healthy measure of that as well as the ability to tackle AND take it to the house. As far as Deion's SB titles - well he was a hired gun with very little loyalty to any team. He just wanted the money wherever he went.
.

Getting money doesn't make him less of a player. Rod was a hired gun once he left pittsburgh and changed his position to fit whatever new team he was on.

lionslicer
10-15-2010, 02:00 AM
sanders said whoever made the list should be smacked (i think REAL football heads such as john madden and gil brandt were involved).

sanders said he should be #4 behind jim brown, jerry rice, and the crackhead LT.

.


I read something about people being mad Tony Gonzales was number 45 and he's not even the top rated TE in the 100 count down... Apparently Shannon Sharpe wasn't good enough for anyone...

People will argue this list forever.

I don't agree that Deion should be ahead of Woodson, but I don't disagree that he shouldn't be in the top 35.
Deion did point out though that the list has 19 quarterbacks and only 37 defensive players.

Fans voted Mike Singletary number 15, but the list has him at 58.
Fans also had Steve Young at 13 but he was 81.
Fans and Analysts will also have their different opinions, and of course they will be more bias towards their favorite players.

ZoneBlitzer
10-15-2010, 02:18 AM
Well I saw the piece on Sanders and have to say that I was relieved as it was very poorly done. Most of the clips showed him hot-doggin' and showboating his way to the end-zone. The guy had little class on the field.

Conversely Rod's clips showed a player with great versatility who could cover, return kicks, intercept passes galore and deliver punishing hits.

Atlanta Dan
10-15-2010, 07:44 AM
sanders said whoever made the list should be smacked (i think REAL football heads such as john madden and gil brandt were involved).

sanders said he should be #4 behind jim brown, jerry rice, and the crackhead LT.

screw him. rod woodson humbly accepted his placement and admitted deion could have the #1 cb of all time title. he then jokingly suggested he was happy to be regarded as the best DB.

rod is right.

deion was nothing more than a hired gun on 2 all star teams that were still able to circumvent the brand new salary cap for a SB run. (both dallas and SF are still trying to recover).

other than highlights for atlanta, he never did shit for the other teams he played for (atlanta made their ONLY SB after he was gone)...

rod was instrumental in baltimore, steelers, AND raiders going to the big show.

rod was a more complete player. deion was more of a self promoting, conceited dick.

that is all.

Sanders was an amazing cover corner who admittedly did not like to tackle - having watched both of them quite a bit, Woodson would get beat more often while Deion would not do anything in run support but had great return skills - I have no problem with both being in the top 50

As far as playoff success, Sanders played on some horrible Falcons teams and got out of town to play with some winners while making more $$$ - when he had talent with him he won 2 rings, which is one more than Woodson - no shame in that

Which relates to one of the probelms with these lists - unlike sports such as basketball or baseball, an individual player can be talented but if he is surrounded by dreck his "greatness" is hypothetical - one example is Archie Manning and Terry Bradshaw - Manning got the crap beat out of him with the Aints but IMO could have had multiple rings if he played for Dallas, Oakland, or Pittsbutgh - there certainly is no doubt he has great QB genes. OTOH Bradshaw certainly benefited from playing with the greatest defense of all time and having a HOF center, a HOF running back, and 2 HOF wide receivers on his side of the ball.

With 30 to go my guess is the remaining Steelers will be Greene and Lambert somewhere in the 15-30 range - my additional guess is Franco Harris is left off the list

lionslicer
10-15-2010, 08:04 AM
I'd be somewhat surprised if Harris was in the top 100. He's a hall of fame back no doubt, but above Eric Dickerson?

Atlanta Dan
10-15-2010, 10:04 AM
I'd be somewhat surprised if Harris was in the top 100. He's a hall of fame back no doubt, but above Eric Dickerson?


Agreed - now that we are down to the top 30 you are dealing with top shelf Hall of Famers - if Franco made the list it would have been in the 75-100 tier - I cannot imagine Lambert being left off but there are a lot of great players to fit in to the top 30

lionslicer
10-15-2010, 11:00 AM
Agreed - now that we are down to the top 30 you are dealing with top shelf Hall of Famers - if Franco made the list it would have been in the 75-100 tier - I cannot imagine Lambert being left off but there are a lot of great players to fit in to the top 30

Well there are 9 quarterbacks left and around 12 or so defensive players. Players we all know will be on there:

Jerry Rice, Joe Montana, Joe Greene, Lambert, LT, Reggie White, Shannon Sharpe, Barry Sanders, Walter Payton, Emmit Smith, Jim Brown, Brady, Manning, Elway, Ray Lewis, Favre, Deacan Jones, Ronnie Lott, Johnny Unitas,

On other top 100 lists, Lambert and Greene have always been in the top 25.

So that leaves 12 players, including 3 quarterbacks and 6 defensive players.

Some I believe will make it, but I'm not 100% sure:

George Blanda, Dick Butkus, Marino, Dick "night train" Lane, Anthony Munoz, Bob Lilly, Fran Tarkenton, John Randle and Jim Kelly

echo61
10-15-2010, 07:31 PM
Well there are 9 quarterbacks left and around 12 or so defensive players. Players we all know will be on there:

Jerry Rice, Joe Montana, Joe Greene, Lambert, LT, Reggie White, Shannon Sharpe, Barry Sanders, Walter Payton, Emmit Smith, Jim Brown, Brady, Manning, Elway, Ray Lewis, Favre, Deacan Jones, Ronnie Lott, Johnny Unitas,

On other top 100 lists, Lambert and Greene have always been in the top 25.

So that leaves 12 players, including 3 quarterbacks and 6 defensive players.

Some I believe will make it, but I'm not 100% sure:

George Blanda, Dick Butkus, Marino, Dick "night train" Lane, Anthony Munoz, Bob Lilly, Fran Tarkenton, John Randle and Jim Kelly

Marino, Otto Graham and Sammy Baugh are 100% certs to be the other 3 QBs. Butkus, Night Train, Munoz and Lilly are also 100% Top 30 certs too. Kelly and Randle have no chance. Blanda might have sneaked into the Top 90-100 range but has no chance of Top 30. Tarkenton has already been named.

Gale Sayers, Don Hutson, John Hannah, Merlin Olsen and probably Bronko Nagurski will be the others selected. I see no place for Shannon Sharpe. Mackey and Gonzalez will be the top two TEs named and both went in the 40s.

lionslicer
10-15-2010, 09:34 PM
Marino, Otto Graham and Sammy Baugh are 100% certs to be the other 3 QBs. Butkus, Night Train, Munoz and Lilly are also 100% Top 30 certs too. Kelly and Randle have no chance. Blanda might have sneaked into the Top 90-100 range but has no chance of Top 30. Tarkenton has already been named.

Gale Sayers, Don Hutson, John Hannah, Merlin Olsen and probably Bronko Nagurski will be the others selected. I see no place for Shannon Sharpe. Mackey and Gonzalez will be the top two TEs named and both went in the 40s.

NFL said there was a tight-end in the top 30, so it has to be Sharpe.. Or maybe Ditka? I can't think of any other top tightends and I doubt its any tight end playing now IE Gates, Dallas Clark, Witten.I

thought Kelly might make it because he was in many top nfl player lists ive seen before and was pretty high.
Why doesn't Randle have a chance? He leads all defensive tackles in sacks and was the 3rd most feared defensive linemen during his playing days next to Reggie White and Bruce Smith, who could have gone higher if he didn't selfishly stay in the league past his time just to beat Reggie White in sacks.

echo61
10-15-2010, 10:05 PM
Ditka was #59 so he's gone already.

Randle was good but there are 11 defensive players left by my calculations.

Reggie White, Deacon Jones, Mean Joe Greene, Olsen, and Lilly were all Top 30 guys in TSN's book 100 Greatest Players from a decade ago. I believe that will be 5 of the 11.

LT, Butkus, Lambert and Ray Lewis must be the LBs.

That leaves two spots for the DBs - Lott and Night Train.

I just can't see how any of those guys don't make the Top 100. If Randle was going to be picked he'd be gone by now. 10 of those 11 were in the NFL's 75th anniversary All-Time team in 1994. The other one is Ray Lewis, a 100% cert to be included. There is no room for Randle. If he was making the Top 100 he would have been named by now.

ZoneBlitzer
10-15-2010, 10:16 PM
Marino, Otto Graham and Sammy Baugh are 100% certs to be the other 3 QBs. Butkus, Night Train, Munoz and Lilly are also 100% Top 30 certs too. Kelly and Randle have no chance. Blanda might have sneaked into the Top 90-100 range but has no chance of Top 30. Tarkenton has already been named.

Gale Sayers, Don Hutson, John Hannah, Merlin Olsen and probably Bronko Nagurski will be the others selected. I see no place for Shannon Sharpe. Mackey and Gonzalez will be the top two TEs named and both went in the 40s.

Love Gale Sayers. The first time I saw footage of Gale Sayers on the NFL network, I was absolutely BLOWN AWAY. I would've loved to see this guy play in his prime. He would have definite consideration at being number 1 on my list.

lionslicer
10-15-2010, 10:39 PM
Ditka was #59 so he's gone already.

Randle was good but there are 11 defensive players left by my calculations.

Reggie White, Deacon Jones, Mean Joe Greene, Olsen, and Lilly were all Top 30 guys in TSN's book 100 Greatest Players from a decade ago. I believe that will be 5 of the 11.

LT, Butkus, Lambert and Ray Lewis must be the LBs.

That leaves two spots for the DBs - Lott and Night Train.

I just can't see how any of those guys don't make the Top 100. If Randle was going to be picked he'd be gone by now. 10 of those 11 were in the NFL's 75th anniversary All-Time team in 1994. The other one is Ray Lewis, a 100% cert to be included. There is no room for Randle. If he was making the Top 100 he would have been named by now.

I forgot Ditka was mentioned.

I don't think Randle deserves to be top 30, but I assumed he would be because he wasn't mentioned. If he's left out of the list, thats a pretty big player left out. But he was drafted in the 7th round so I'm sure he's used to it.

Indo
10-16-2010, 11:10 PM
sanders said whoever made the list should be smacked (i think REAL football heads such as john madden and gil brandt were involved).

sanders said he should be #4 behind jim brown, jerry rice, and the crackhead LT.

screw him. rod woodson humbly accepted his placement and admitted deion could have the #1 cb of all time title. he then jokingly suggested he was happy to be regarded as the best DB.

rod is right.

deion was nothing more than a hired gun on 2 all star teams that were still able to circumvent the brand new salary cap for a SB run. (both dallas and SF are still trying to recover).

other than highlights for atlanta, he never did shit for the other teams he played for (atlanta made their ONLY SB after he was gone)...

rod was instrumental in baltimore, steelers, AND raiders going to the big show.

rod was a more complete player. deion was more of a self promoting, conceited dick.

that is all.

I completely agree, Hipcheese.
What amazed me the most was that, as Sanders was bitching that he should be higher, they showed a comparison chart between Woodson and Sanders. Woodson, who was voted #41 had better numbers than Sanders in every category. I liked the class he showed in just letting that simple fact blow over during Sanders' rant.
Eff Deion.

lionslicer
10-16-2010, 11:39 PM
I completely agree, Hipcheese.
What amazed me the most was that, as Sanders was bitching that he should be higher, they showed a comparison chart between Woodson and Sanders. Woodson, who was voted #41 had better numbers than Sanders in every category. I liked the class he showed in just letting that simple fact blow over during Sanders' rant.
Eff Deion.

Stats mean nothing...

But I believe Deion was a better cornerback, and he revolutionized the meaning of shutdown corner and that football players didn't have to be tall and be able to bench 400 pounds and strike fear into the eyes of offenses. They could be gracefull. That I believe is why he's above Woodson, because he had a bigger impact on how the game is played today. Woodson was a better saftey than he ever was a cornerback, and he was a better player overall than Deion, but he didn't completely change the game with his style.

SteelKnight
10-18-2010, 01:29 AM
Dion should be in the top 20.

I rate him higher than Woodson. Woodson did continue to tribute though by changing his position.

Dion is the best CB of all time this far.

Atlanta Dan
10-18-2010, 07:56 AM
SI writer Peter King discusses the top 100 list in his MMQB column this morning

With regard to where Deion Sanders ranks, King notes:

Sanders is right where he should be. He's one of the most electric and important players I've seen in my 26 years covering the league, but I'd have him higher if he played more physically.

King has seen the full list - these are the defensive players (not necesssarily in order of rank but how King anticipates they will be ranked) that will be named in the top 30

Lawrence Taylor
Reggie White
Dick Butkus
Deacon Jones
Ronnie Lott
Joe Greene
Ray Lewis
Bob Lilly
Jack Lambert
Merlin Olsen

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2010/writers/peter_king/10/17/mmqb/2.html

SteelKnight
10-18-2010, 05:34 PM
SI writer Peter King discusses the top 100 list in his MMQB column this morning

With regard to where Deion Sanders ranks, King notes:

Sanders is right where he should be. He's one of the most electric and important players I've seen in my 26 years covering the league, but I'd have him higher if he played more physically.

King has seen the full list - these are the defensive players (not necesssarily in order of rank but how King anticipates they will be ranked) that will be named in the top 30

Lawrence Taylor
Reggie White
Dick Butkus
Deacon Jones
Ronnie Lott
Joe Greene
Ray Lewis
Bob Lilly
Jack Lambert
Merlin Olsen

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2010/writers/peter_king/10/17/mmqb/2.html

Decon Jones is funny. They said O Linemen couldn't use their hands and he used to whack them in the head and run around them.:sofunny:

zulater
10-18-2010, 08:37 PM
Deon is a still a brat. I'm glad he spoiled his moment with a sulk .:chuckle:

echo61
10-19-2010, 03:43 AM
Peter King also mentioned in MMQB that Alex Rodriguez is presenting Dan Marino and Derek Jeter has the honours for Tom Brady.

Edit:

NFL.com has revealed who gets named at number 21 in this week's show.

Number 21 is...? (http://www.nfl.com/videos/new-england-patriots/09000d5d81b6f161/Top-100-Tom-Brady)

PS. Looking at the end credits a Pittsburgh Steeler is on the 21-30 list while Mariucci appears to be Brett Favre's presenter in the 11-20 show for the following week.

SteelKnight
10-20-2010, 01:07 AM
Peter King also mentioned in MMQB that Alex Rodriguez is presenting Dan Marino and Derek Jeter has the honours for Tom Brady.

Edit:

NFL.com has revealed who gets named at number 21 in this week's show.

Number 21 is...? (http://www.nfl.com/videos/new-england-patriots/09000d5d81b6f161/Top-100-Tom-Brady)

PS. Looking at the end credits a Pittsburgh Steeler is on the 21-30 list while Mariucci appears to be Brett Favre's presenter in the 11-20 show for the following week.

IDK if Brett Favre deserves top 20. He deserves to be in the 30s or something.

MattsMe
10-20-2010, 01:17 AM
that football players didn't have to be tall and be able to bench 400 pounds and strike fear into the eyes of offenses. They could be gracefull.

Go back and watch Lynn Swann. Sanders didn't revolutionize anything.

lionslicer
10-20-2010, 02:38 PM
Go back and watch Lynn Swann. Sanders didn't revolutionize anything.

Swann was on the offense, when's did you hear about players pre-80's on the defense that were gracefull? Exactly. Defenders were supposed to be big and hurt people, even if they were corners.

echo61
10-21-2010, 10:06 PM
30. Night Train Lane.
29. Jack Lambert
28. Emmitt Smith
27. Merlin Olsen
26. Bob Lilly
25. Dan Marino
24. John Hannah
23. John Elway
22. Gale Sayers
21. Tom Brady


Predicted Top 20:

QB: Joe Montana, Johnny Unitas, Sammy Baugh, Otto Graham, Peyton Manning, Brett Favre
WR: Jerry Rice, Don Hutson
RB: Jim Brown, Walter Payton, Barry Sanders
FB: Bronko Nagurski
OL: Anthony Munoz

DL: Reggie White, Joe Greene, Deacon Jones
LB: Lawrence Taylor, Ray Lewis, Dick Butkus
DB: Ronnie Lott