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mesaSteeler
10-18-2010, 10:49 PM
NFL to review Harrison hit
Monday, October 18, 2010
By Ed Bouchette, Pittsburgh Post-Gazette
http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/10291/1096248-66.stm?cmpid=steelers.xml

The hit that Steelers linebacker James Harrison put on Cleveland wide receiver Mohamed Massaquoi Sunday is being reviewed by NFL officials to determine if it were illegal and if so what punishment the league would issue.

Harrison's earlier hit that knocked Joshua Cribbs from the game in the second quarter of the Steelers' 28-10 victory in Heinz Field was determined to be legal, according to an NFL spokesman.

"The first hit (on Cribbs, who was a runner) was legal," Greg Aiello told the Post-Gazette in an email this afternoon. "The second will be reviewed."

Neither of Harrison's hits that knocked Browns Joshua Cribbs and Mohamed Massaquoi from the game for good drew a penalty, at least not on Sunday. But those two were among a handful of vicious hits to the head around the NFL Sunday that have drawn the attention from the league office and ultimately could draw punishment including a fine and/or suspension.

Ray Anderson, the league's vice president of football operations whose office doles out such punishment, reacted swiftly to the head hits on Monday.

"There's strong testimonial for looking readily at evaluating discipline, especially in the areas of egregious and elevated dangerous hits," he told the Associated Press.

"Going forward there are certain hits that occurred that will be more susceptible to suspension. There are some that could bring suspensions for what are flagrant and egregious situations."

The first of Harrison's hits did not come in question, even though his helmet hit Cribbs' helmet on a running play. It seemed unavoidable, two players flying through the air with no apparent intent by Harrison to lower his helmet into Cribbs' helmet. The rules allow for such an inadvertent hit.

The second hit by Harrison is the one that has come into question. Harrison hit Massaquoi high, not necessarily helmet to helmet, but it does not need to be a collision of helmets to be ruled illegal.

In the past -- such as Ryan Clark's big hit on receiver Wes Welker a few years ago in New England -- the hit clearly would have been legal. But the new rule, changed at the NFL meetings in March, now says that a defender must give the receiver time to protect himself after catching the ball before he is hit high. Did Harrison do that?

Mike Tomlin was quick to note Sunday that they were "Legal hits, not fineable hits. He played good football." Unfortunately for Harrison and the Steelers, Tomlin is not the final judge on such things. The NFL will let him know their ruling, usually no later than Wednesday.


Read more: http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/10291/1096248-66.stm?cmpid=steelers.xml#ixzz12i6B64d6

lionslicer
10-18-2010, 10:53 PM
I can see Harrison getting fined for the 2nd hit because he could have just went low for a normal tackle. But the Cribbs hit in no way was intentional. At full speed, Harrison was just trying to get the guy down, and their helmets colided. Plus he's a ball carrier, he puts his head down first to get extra yards, he's pretty much asking to get hit in the head.

tony hipchest
10-18-2010, 11:10 PM
But the new rule, changed at the NFL meetings in March, now says that a defender must give the receiver time to protect himself after catching the ball before he is hit high. Did Harrison do that?



pure crap.

just make a rule saying only db's can tackle a wr, already and eliminate hitting altogether. :dang:

thats the only way the league will get what they want.

OX1947
10-19-2010, 12:39 AM
Goodell can eat a big fat (bleep) and choke to death. That piece of (bleep) bitches and whines about cleaning up the game and then yaps about adding 2 more games in a season that is already debilitating enough for players. If I didn't love the Steelers so much, I would seriously take a dump on the NFL as long as that moron in commissioner. Man I miss Paul Tags.....

SteelersinCA
10-19-2010, 12:56 AM
I like the self imposed bleeps, that's a team player right there mods!!

Shea
10-19-2010, 01:28 AM
I like the self imposed bleeps, that's a team player right there mods!!

Without even reading the article, I know Harrison will be fined.

It's how the NFL now rolls.

12+88=6
10-19-2010, 02:29 AM
i like how he was fined $5,000 for hits the nfl said were wrong or dangerous but they fined him $20,000 "for criticizing a roughing-the-passer penalty against him." i guess the nfl feels they are more important or worth more than the players on the field. whatever they can do to make a few bucks.

things happen so fast, how can they expect a defender to control where he hits a guy when the other guy is moving also. one second the wr's head is up the next it's lower and bam helmet to helmet even though he was going to hit him in the chest until the wr or rb moved. not every hit to the head is on purpose, sometimes it just happens.

next thing you know they'll start fining rb's for lowering their shoulders into a tackler or using a stiff arm to the face. why is it ok to push a defenders head back on a stiff arm but a guy just touches a qb's helmet and it's called a "blow to the head"?

Fire Haley
10-19-2010, 02:30 AM
have every defensive player on every team throw a helmet to helmet hit on every play this weekend in a solidarity protest

1000 suspensions due the first week

Let them try to legislate that.

Stu Pidasso
10-19-2010, 03:50 AM
But the new rule, changed at the NFL meetings in March, now says that a defender must give the receiver time to protect himself after catching the ball before he is hit high.


Does anyone else see a fundimental wrongness about his sentence? Now a defender must WAIT until a catch is made? What if he has a chance to intercept/knock the ball away/etc. ? What utter bullspit.

mikegrimey
10-19-2010, 07:16 AM
Does anyone else see a fundimental wrongness about his sentence? Now a defender must WAIT until a catch is made? What if he has a chance to intercept/knock the ball away/etc. ? What utter bullspit.

That's exactly what I was going to say. How fair is it to tell the defense to essentially let the receiver catch the ball first before they hit them? I totally appreciate the concern about head injuries but there are certain aspects of the game of football that will always be brutal.

Corey120120
10-19-2010, 08:13 AM
There is going to be alot of .suspensions

steelerchad
10-19-2010, 08:30 AM
Harrison's hit was intended to separate man from ball. He succeeded with what he was trying and suppossed to be doing. You can't do that task at half speed or down low. If James goes low for a leg tackle the receiver makes the catch. How in the hell is that right?

mesaSteeler
10-19-2010, 08:34 AM
NFL looking into Harrison's hit on Massaquoi
http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/sports/steelers/s_704940.html#
By Scott Brown
PITTSBURGH TRIBUNE-REVIEW
Tuesday, October 19, 2010

The agent for James Harrison said the Steelers outside linebacker should not be fined or disciplined for a recent hit that the NFL is reviewing.

The NFL is looking into the Harrison blow that knocked Cleveland Browns wide receiver Mohamed Massaquoi out of Sunday's game with a concussion, league spokesman Greg Aiello said Monday.

"It was not a flagged play, and I think it was well within the confines of the game," said Bill Parise, who represents Harrison. "I don't know how you could possibly (fine Harrison). That, to me, would be a ghastly reach."

Massaquoi's and Harrison's helmets collided on a second-quarter play that resulted in an incomplete pass. Massaquoi bobbled a short throw from quarterback Colt McCoy and appeared to duck before Harrison hit him.

Earlier in the quarter, Harrison knocked Josh Cribbs out of the game by hitting him in the helmet at the end of a 1-yard run. Cribbs was falling to the ground on the play when Harrison hit him in the ear hole of his helmet.

The NFL is not reviewing that play.

Cribbs, who had to be revived after the Harrison hit, also suffered a concussion.

After the Steelers' 28-10 win, Harrison said, "I don't want to see anybody injured, but I'm not opposed to hurting anybody."

Neither hit by Harrison drew a penalty, and Steelers coach Mike Tomlin said they were "legal hits, not fineable hits."

Such hits have come under increased scrutiny by the NFL following a weekend in which Philadelphia Eagles wide receiver DeSean Jackson also sustained a concussion after getting walloped by Atlanta Falcons cornerback Dunta Robinson.

The NFL may start suspending players for helmet-to-helmet hits it deems excessively violent.

"There's strong testimonial for looking readily at evaluating discipline, especially in the areas of egregious and elevated dangerous hits," NFL executive vice president of football operations Ray Anderson told the Associated Press. "Going forward, there are certain hits that occurred that will be more susceptible to suspension."

Browns tight end Ben Watson told the AP that the Harrison hits on Massaquoi and Cribbs fall into that category.

"I hope the NFL does the max," Watson said of the league possibly disciplining Harrison for the hit on Massaquoi. "Whatever the max is, I hope they give it to him."

Harrison was fined $5,000 earlier this season for slamming Vince Young to the turf while sacking the Tennessee Titans quarterback with defensive ends Aaron Smith and Brett Keisel.

Harrison said Sunday it would be a "travesty" if the NFL fined him for his hits on Cribbs, his former college teammate, and Massaquoi.

Parise said Harrison did not launch his body at Massaquoi New England Patriots safety Brandon Merriweather was penalized for doing that to Baltimore Ravens tight end Todd Heap last Sunday or lead with his helmet on the play.

"Last time I checked, the defensive players separating offensive players from the football was an objective," Parise said. "I think (Harrison) has the right to do that within the framework of the rules and reasonability. But if you want to legislate that, I would suggest we put flags on the players and play flag football. And I don't mean that as a frivolous statement."

Parise said he is all for protecting players for their own good as well as that of the NFL.

"I want the game to be as safe as can be," Parise said, "but on the other hand, it's still football."

Scott Brown can be reached at sbrown@tribweb.com or 412-481-5432.

mesaSteeler
10-19-2010, 08:36 AM
Harris: Suspension won't tame Harrison
http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/sports/steelers/print_704952.html
By John Harris
PITTSBURGH TRIBUNE-REVIEW
Tuesday, October 19, 2010

I agree with Steelers linebacker Lawrence Timmons. This is crazy.

"That was something I've never seen before up close and personal," Timmons said about teammate James Harrison knocking Cleveland Browns wide receiver Josh Cribbs unconscious and nearly doing the same thing to another receiver, Mohamed Massaquoi, during a seven-minute span in the second quarter of Sunday's 28-10 Steelers' victory.

"That was crazy."

I'm behind Harrison 100 percent. I don't believe he should be suspended for delivering helmet-to-helmet blows that are against the rules but weren't called during the game.

Oh, there was a flag thrown following Harrison's hit on Massaquoi against the Browns! Center Alex Mack was assessed a 5-yard delay of game penalty for kicking the football after the play.

Why weren't Harrison's hits penalized?

"Legal hits, not fineable hits," said Steelers coach Mike Tomlin, who endorses the way Harrison knocked Cribbs and Massaquoi to the ground. "He played good football."

Played good football. Think about those three words.

Harrison was playing football the way he was taught a long time ago, the way the Steelers want him to play. In Tomlin's opinion, Harrison did nothing wrong. Just doing his job.

Multiply that thought process by 32 teams and coaching staffs with 53 players on each roster. Tomlin isn't the only coach who thinks that way, and Harrison isn't the only player who carries that mindset onto the field. Tomlin and Harrison are the rule, not the exception.

NFL vice president of football operations Ray Anderson said Monday that the league will begin cracking down on helmet-to-helmet hits, perhaps immediately. That means suspensions and/or fines for Harrison and Atlanta cornerback Dunta Robinson, whose jarring collision with Philadelphia wide receiver DeSean Jackson knocked the latter out of Sunday's game with a concussion.

Don't get me started about former NFL safety Rodney Harrison, an analyst for NBC who said during Sunday night's Colts-Redskins broadcast that suspending players is the only way to get their attention.

Harrison no relation to James should know. He was fined more than $200,000 during his career and suspended one game in 2002 for a helmet-to-helmet hit.

Of course, James Harrison didn't help his cause when he said his goal is to hurt opposing players (as opposed to injuring them). Politically correct he is not.

Suspending Harrison for a game won't stop him from playing the only way he knows staying aggressive and tackling hard within the limits of the rules without breaking them.

Here's where the NFL gets itself in trouble. According to the rule book, Harrison's head-to-helmet tackle on Cribbs broke no rules because Cribbs was a ball-carrier.

That tackle knocked Cribbs senseless, yet was legal. Harrison's tackle on Massaquoi didn't knock Massaquoi out, but is considered more serious because the receiver was in a "defenseless" position.

How about the tackles resulting in concussions for Green Bay quarterback Aaron Rodgers and Chicago quarterback Jay Cutler? No penalties were given in either instance.

Were those plays not punishable because the concussions occurred when the back of the quarterbacks' head hit the ground? Are those concussions considered less severe than the ones occurring during the most recent slate of games? Can we even begin to compare the severity of concussions?

The NFL is based on legalized violence, but commissioner Roger Goodell wants to put a dress on a pig. The NFL can't have it both ways, but that's precisely what Goodell is attempting to do.

John Harris can be reached at jharris@tribweb.com or 412-481-5432.

smheart78
10-19-2010, 09:13 AM
I came to the same conclusion about the Massaquoi hit. What is Deebo to do? The pass got to Massy and he took at least 3 steps before Deebo got to him, TURN YOUR HEAD AROUND!! Massy ended up bobbling the pass a little bit which took his intention away from the defender and onto the ball. That should not be Harrison's fault, should Deebo wait until the recevier firmly controls theball and them decides to turn his head around before he should hit him?
That is what the league would be saying if he is suspended.
Don't give me the going after the head argument either. The above article indicates that Massy knew the hit was coming and started to go down (duck) to protect himself, which put his head lower to accept Harrison's hit. I, as with all Steeler fans, full well believe Harrison when he said he could have hit Massy a LOT harder on the play, he let up a little.
At the end of the day, I would accept a fine, because I believe they are given out to injury inducing player, regardless of intent/rule breaking, simply for the safety of the game. Which helped in this case, as Deebo let up on the hit.

Stu Pidasso
10-19-2010, 10:35 AM
If he "goes for a leg tackle" then everyone will call him a thug for "going after their knees" to knock them out of the game. Catch-22...

Fire Haley
10-19-2010, 11:13 AM
Per NFL football operations executive Ray Anderson on Mike and Mike -

Confirmed : James Harrison would get suspended if the hit on MoMass happened this weekend.

Reason : rule states that no helmet/shoulder/forearm to helmet/neck contact can be made to defenseless receivers. Even if the contact starts off legal (ie forearm to chest), the if contact continues to the helmet/neck of the defenseless receiver, that will be a suspendable offense.

truesteelerfan
10-19-2010, 11:30 AM
This is another example of how Goodell is ruining the best game on the planet. I agree with Tomlin's statement that the most violent team wins games....Now by the risk of having our players suspended, we need to be violent to win, but can't be too violent or our best players such as Harrison will miss a game here or there....This is football...what a bunch of total crap!

As far as that comment/rule about a player must be able to defend themselves after they catch a ball....my solution is this...grow alligator arms and don't catch the ball if you don't want to be hit.

Whats next...this game I love is turning into touch football.

truesteelerfan
10-19-2010, 11:36 AM
If he gets fined....anybody know how to start up a collection to pay his fee for him? I'm sure we can find 25,000 fans to each give a dollar right?

SteelersinCA
10-19-2010, 11:41 AM
You think he cares about 25K?

vasteeler
10-19-2010, 11:49 AM
If he gets fined....anybody know how to start up a collection to pay his fee for him? I'm sure we can find 25,000 fans to each give a dollar right?

as much as he makes?......he aint gettin' my dollar:chuckle:

Fire Haley
10-19-2010, 12:02 PM
Obviously the players are too big and fast. Time to stop all those violent collisions - - anyone over 6ft and 180lbs should be eliminated from the game. anyone running under a 5 sec 40 time will have to wear lead weights to slow their speed.

Welcome to the new NFFL - the National Flag Football League

Nevermore
10-19-2010, 12:10 PM
I know this isn't going to be the popular response, but the NFL does have to do something to start protecting people. The speed and strength of the game has grown to a point that someone is going to kill someone else on the field. Is it how people learn to play the game, perhaps, but no one is that big and strong in high school and even college. This is not against Harrison in particular, but everyone who thinks "I'm out there to hurt other players" and will continue to hit until people are paralyzed or dead. That is ridiculous. It is still a game and needs to be controlled. Hockey players played forever without helmets and then the league said they had to wear them. I can't think of anyone right now that thinks that is a bad idea in hockey. I'm a fan of the big hit just as much as the next guy, but if we have to give up a bit of the intensity of the game in order to protect people from getting seriously injured, I'm all for it. Would everyone here be cheering Harrison's hit as much if Cribbs had broken his neck on that play? I hope not. He admitted he is out to hurt. That is not the way to play. And before everyone gets riled up, I'm saying this about EVERYONE in the league, Lewis and Suggs included.

steeltheone
10-19-2010, 12:26 PM
This is why they are making the big bucks. Nobody wants to watch a bunch of sissys out on the field!

Fire Haley
10-19-2010, 12:52 PM
I stand with him.

Speaking of protests. Every fan from every team should show up this weekend and burn their tickets and leave the stadiums empty.

Let the stands be empty when the cameras start rolling, we can bring this league down to it's knees in a hearbeat when the owners and advertisers lose money.

**** you Goodell

lionslicer
10-19-2010, 12:56 PM
If he gets fined....anybody know how to start up a collection to pay his fee for him? I'm sure we can find 25,000 fans to each give a dollar right?

I know fans paying for a players fine would be a good thing because it would show the NFL the fans don't appriciate what they are doing to the game, but I say until they decide to fine a play an appropriate amount, he doesn't deserve it lol

25k is like $100 to him, its nothing. Its nothing to any player making over a million a year. NFL just gives out fines to set an example, but don't do a good job, you want to stop players from doing these things, you fine them a quarter of their salary.

Nevermore
10-19-2010, 01:04 PM
This is why they are making the big bucks. Nobody wants to watch a bunch of sissys out on the field!

There is a big difference in trying to hurt someone and possibly seriously injuring them or ending their career and being a bunch of sissies. Don't lead with your helmet and TRY to hit people in the head. Put your shoulder pads in his numbers and TACKLE. I want to see good games, amazing long passes, breaking runs, pick 6's, and hard hits. But I don't want to see people carted off the field because someone is TRYING to put them in a cart. Ridiculous. This is football, not MMA!

Curtain_of_Steel
10-19-2010, 01:13 PM
Way to many variables to state "do not lead with your helmet".

1) in most people the head is above the shoulder
2) if the tackler if flying in he can not change hs trajectory, however the target can move up or down and cause a head shot that wasnt going to be a head shot in the first place.
3) Why would someone intentionally do a head shot with his head? Who takes the bigger brunt force? the tackler? or the target? Its 2 objects hitting/moving at each other the force is the same.

Wouldnt both be at risk?

The defenseless hit might be palatable but not when someone has the ball. Its fair game. Now if they missed the ball and was whacked, ok, toss the flag if you want. But the whole idea is to tackle the guy with the ball right? Or did that change?lol

rbryan
10-19-2010, 01:56 PM
I feel sorry for the next guy crossing the middle if he does get suspended.

James will probably use the week off to attend anger management classes....lol

Go ahead Roger....keep pissing off the Stillers.

OX1947
10-19-2010, 02:59 PM
I stand with him.

Speaking of protests. Every fan from every team should show up this weekend and burn their tickets and leave the stadiums empty.

Let the stands be empty when the cameras start rolling, we can bring this league down to it's knees in a hearbeat when the owners and advertisers lose money.

**** you Goodell

I swear, if we fans could do it, I would. Goodell needs to go......

scsteeler
10-19-2010, 03:12 PM
Suspension is total bull. If they really wanted to protect the players they would change to a soft shell helmet rather than that hard material that is used now.

frunko1
10-19-2010, 03:13 PM
Until they require all players to wear the newest helmets, proper mouthguards, cups, flack jackets etc etc, the nfl will look like idiots.

The fact favre goes out every week with a mid 90;s helmet, and no mouth guard is just wrong. If they are serious about concussion safety the best and newest should be required. Also all these helmets popping off is because players don't get fitted properly, that should be another requirement.

Goodell can screw off till he actually finds a real solution or takes real steps toward fixing the problems.

Also I forgot to add, that football helmet tech seems very behind motorcycle tech.
Here is a new helmet coming with a soft outer layer, then a normal helmet underneath
http://www.crunchgear.com/2010/02/15/new-helmet-tech-acts-as-a-second-skull-skin-and-all/

Wouldn;t this be perfect for the nfl?

lionslicer
10-19-2010, 03:19 PM
Suspension is total bull. If they really wanted to protect the players they would change to a soft shell helmet rather than that hard material that is used now.

Yeah and their shoulder pads should be made of pillows.

Even though the NFL wants games to be higher scoring, they still need players ot make the hard hits.

jjpro11
10-19-2010, 03:49 PM
Ryan Clark is right.. how can you actually take all these safety initiatives seriously when they are adding two more games of full contact to the season? are people just too dumb to realize the double standard here? all these mouths in the media, and nobody seems to realize what horseshit the league office is spewing out about player safety.

Fire Haley
10-19-2010, 04:13 PM
Goodell needs to go......

amen

Go watch soccer if you want fake player injuries to be your highlight reel plays.

Lady Steel
10-19-2010, 04:17 PM
Without even reading the article, I know Harrison will be fined.


I agree. If the NFL had no intention of fining Harrison on that hit, they wouldn't be reviewing it.

Any similar hits starting this coming weekend will more than likely result in suspensions.

Fire Haley
10-19-2010, 04:25 PM
and so it begins...the end of football as we know it


Suspensions for dangerous hits begin now

NEW YORK – The NFL will immediately begin suspending players for dangerous and flagrant hits, particularly those involving helmets.

Suspensions also could be handed out for hits during last weekend's games.

The league's announcement comes one day after its vice president of football operations told The Associated Press stiffer penalties could be forthcoming. The NFL said the new disciplinary measures will be in place for this weekend's games.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20101019/ap_on_sp_fo_ne/fbn_helmet_hits

StainlessStill
10-19-2010, 04:48 PM
There is a big difference in trying to hurt someone and possibly seriously injuring them or ending their career and being a bunch of sissies. Don't lead with your helmet and TRY to hit people in the head. Put your shoulder pads in his numbers and TACKLE. I want to see good games, amazing long passes, breaking runs, pick 6's, and hard hits. But I don't want to see people carted off the field because someone is TRYING to put them in a cart. Ridiculous. This is football, not MMA!

You've obviously never played the game, so I don't blame your ignorant response. It is BURNED into a players head each day in the world of football (pee-wee's, jr high, high school, college, and ESP pros) to be as lights out as humanly possible or your ass will be kicked off the football team. This game is meant to be played with a reckless abandon and if you don't show that, not only will you be embarrassed by the coaching staff verbally, you will set a reputation for yourself for being a sissy. Why do you think so many players around the world are riding the bench? Because they don't hit hard enough.



Now, lets not even get into the speed of the game and the angles that are givin when the whole entire game is defined by "trying to tackle your opponent as hard as you can to bring him into the ground." The helmet, the shoulder pads, the rib pads are all there for a reason. To protect the players as much as possible just incase a player gets in an awkward position during the speed of the moment and have a helmet to helmet hit, or else he'd be fired.

But yet, lets add 2 games! Pathetic league run by Mr. Rodger "double standard" Goodell.


I never seen wrestling, headbutts, grappling, martial arts, or kicking and punching being thrown in a football game as far as adequate goes. So you're right, this isn't MMA. It's the NFL. It's FOOTBALL!!!!!

Atlanta Dan
10-19-2010, 05:37 PM
You think he cares about 25K?

Goodell apparently thought the answer to that question was no - he got $75K instead

Goodell strikes again

BigRick
10-19-2010, 06:48 PM
This is another example of how Goodell is ruining the best game on the planet. I agree with Tomlin's statement that the most violent team wins games....Now by the risk of having our players suspended, we need to be violent to win, but can't be too violent or our best players such as Harrison will miss a game here or there....This is football...what a bunch of total crap!

As far as that comment/rule about a player must be able to defend themselves after they catch a ball....my solution is this...grow alligator arms and don't catch the ball if you don't want to be hit.

Whats next...this game I love is turning into touch football.

Let's suspend Goodell for the rest of the season, then fire his stupid ass!:rofl: