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zulater
10-19-2010, 02:58 PM
OK I'll set the over -under for personal fouls called against Silverback next Sunday at 1.5. for the next four games combined I'll set it at 5

Odds of him being ejected at least once in thje next four games, even money.

Point is, is anyone other than me convinced the league is going to have Harrison targeted by the refs? I'm usually not one of those in the, out to get us camp but Harrisons' candid and honest lack of remorse in addressing last Sunday's hits I think puts the league's spotlight directly on him. And I'm convinced if he as much as sneezes on anyone they're throwing their flag. :banging:

jjpro11
10-19-2010, 03:44 PM
assholes already have him labeled a repeat offender and will definitely suspend him next time it happens.

NFL fines James Harrison $75,000; Dunta Robinson $50,000
Posted by Michael David Smith on October 19, 2010 4:29 PM ET
Shortly after news broke that Patriots safety Brandon Meriweather has been fined $50,000 for helmet-to-helmet hits, two of his fellow NFL headhunters have also learned that their paychecks will be docked significantly.

Steelers linebacker James Harrison has been fined $75,000 for a hit on Browns receiver Mohamed Massaquoi, while Falcons cornerback Dunta Robinson has been fined $50,000 for hitting DeSean Jackson.

That's $175,000 in fines for three players, for one afternoon of football.

According to Chris Mortensen of ESPN, Harrison's fine was the biggest because he's a repeat offender.

tony hipchest
10-19-2010, 03:46 PM
he wont get a holding call against him for the rest of the year. the league has probably sent memos to 31 teams that it is open season on his knees.

this is the same as the hines ward rule and the ryan clark rule. before we know it, there will be a casey hampton rule limiting the DL's weight. :doh:

Fire Arians
10-19-2010, 03:56 PM
that's crap, robinson's hit was way worse than harrison's, he should get fined more. harrison looked like he was trying to avoid a helmet hit by shoving instead of leveling him with a shoulder hit which would have been much worse.

Fire Haley
10-19-2010, 03:58 PM
The NFL is fixed.

Taking points spreads bets now, no doubt

chacha
10-19-2010, 04:02 PM
WHAT A LOAD OF BS!! :mad: How the f can Harrison's be more than Meriweather's??? IMO Meriweather was the only one that looked intentional of the ones fined

caplovestroyp43
10-19-2010, 04:07 PM
I happen to agree with the fines. EXCEPT Harrison's. That was just a bit much. 50 grand I could have lived with. OY! Why is it that everyone seems to want to make examples of the Steeler players? Is the league really THAT jealous of us????

SteelermanBirth2Death
10-19-2010, 04:07 PM
We should start up a fund for the fines, cause that's gonna happen again. One announcer said Massaquoi was a defenseless reciever, he was looking for the ball not who was coming. So are the defensive players just suppose to let the recievers catch the ball now and wait to tackle them. All these rule changes geared toward the offense is getting a little ridiculous.

Atlanta Dan
10-19-2010, 04:07 PM
A big chunk of that fine was for Harrison's post-game quotes where he refused to express remorse

More ad hoc changes of standards from Goodell, this time to deal with a PR fire set by Rodney Harrison and Saint Tony Dungy (who is becoming an increasingly tired caricature of moral rectitude whom we are supposed to forget coached a pretty physical crew in Tampa prior to moving on to coach flag football in Indianapolis while bi***ing about players not letting Peyton Maning complete every pass)

If I were in Silverback's position i would tell the media I am done talking

chacha
10-19-2010, 04:10 PM
But what James said was true, he said he didn't want to injure anyone, but hurt them. Anyone with a brain knows what he meant, the media just played up the hurt comment. It's football and it's his job to have that attitude.

jjpro11
10-19-2010, 04:11 PM
So are the defensive players just suppose to let the recievers catch the ball now and wait to tackle them. All these rule changes geared toward the offense is getting a little ridiculous.

for the past year or so these new rules have been aimed at doing just that.. the NFL loves offense.. the easiest way to increase offense is to eliminate the danger of catching a ball. allow the receiver run around in the open field untouched, allow him enough time to catch the ball, and then bring him down lightly.

chacha
10-19-2010, 04:12 PM
A big chunk of that fine was for Harrison's post-game quotes where he refused to express remorse

More ad hoc changes of standards from Goodell, this time to deal with a PR fire set by Rodney Harrison and Saint Tony Dungy (who is becoming an increasingly tired caricature of moral rectitude whom we are supposed to forget coached a pretty physical crew in Tampa prior to moving on to coach flag football in Indianapolis while bi***ing about players not letting Peyton Maning complete every pass)

If I were in Silverback's position i would tell the media I am done talking

Rodney Harrison has no room to talk about anything, and You're right abut Dungy, his act is getting really tired

Atlanta Dan
10-19-2010, 04:16 PM
But what James said was true, he said he didn't want to injure anyone, but hurt them. Anyone with a brain knows what he meant, the media just played up the hurt comment. It's football and it's his job to have that attitude.

The truth? When it comes to the violence that is part of football's appeal a lot of folks can't handle the truth

5j2F4VcBmeo

Silverback basically said you're damn right he ordered the Code Red on Cribbs and Massaquoi!

chacha
10-19-2010, 04:18 PM
^ exactly

Fire Arians
10-19-2010, 04:20 PM
cribbs and masowhatever don't want none of debo!

Fire Haley
10-19-2010, 04:22 PM
Miami better look out - Debo is gonna be PISSED


Goodell has a hard-on for the Steelers. **** him.

I hope we crush every ****ing team left on the schedule, I don't care how many suspensions we get.

mikegrimey
10-19-2010, 04:30 PM
I hope some of the better paid steelers chip in and help him pay the fine because that's an absurd amount for an incidental hit.

Robinson's fine was egregious too, he was clearly putting him shoulder into iacksons chest, the helmet contact was incidental.

Merriweathers was the only hit that looked intentional.

Ridiculous just ridiculous.

Fire Arians
10-19-2010, 04:44 PM
maybe the reason why we picked up so much linebackers in the draft was because we knew goodell was going to do this and had to count on harrison, woodley, and timmons getting suspended at some point of the year for refusing to play wussy ball :tt02:

but who knows, knowing tomlin wanted to draft 'run and hit' players, maybe they'll get suspended too and we'll eventually have to try out hines ward (another "repeat offender") at LB, where he'll prolly end up getting suspended too for hitting someone too hard

Atlanta Dan
10-19-2010, 04:44 PM
Harrison is not backing down

It was a legal hit," Harrison maintained in an interview today with the Post-Gazette, before the fine was levied by the NFL, as did Steelers coach Mike Tomlin.

"All you have to do is look at the tape," Harrison said.

He said he was not aiming for Massaquoi's head and actually tried to pull off of him. He believes he's being targeted because of media opinion against him.

"If I get fined it's because anybody out there who has a camera in their face or a pen in their hand is writing their opinion and it's all the same. I just happened to be one of the bigger names who hit somebody last weekend."...

Harrison, a three-time Pro Bowl linebacker and the NFL defensive player of the year in 2008, said defenders like him can't win no matter where they hit a ballcarrier. Hit him high, the league wants to fine them; hit them low, and the offensive player risks a knee injury.

Such was the case in the 2009 season opener at Heinz Field when Harrison hit Tennessee tight end Bo Scaife so hard in the left leg that Scaife not only fumbled, but he did not return to the game. Scaife called the hit a "cheap shot." Titans coach Jeff Fisher, co-chair of the NFL competition committee that helps shape the rules, firmly said it was not an illegal hit.

"I hit him low and he ended up injuring his knee and was out for a number of games,'' Harrison said Tuesday. "I guess I'll end up having to take the fine and save someone's career."

Despite Scaife's outcry, Harrison said NFL players would prefer to be hit high than low and risk a knee injury.

"Ask any player in the NFL, they'd say that's dirty," Harrison said of a knee shot. "But the NFL says that's a legal play, but you can end his year if not his career. But if you hit him up high and give him a concussion or whatever, they fine you for it. Now you have to start hitting guys low, and what then?

"We've had enough rules on how to tackle a quarterback, now we have to worry about what a guy does at the last second. If he puts himself in harms way, now it's our fault."


http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/10292/1096447-66.stm

What's the over under on how long before the first flag for unnecessary roughness by Harrison is thrown on Sunday?:chuckle:

Stu Pidasso
10-19-2010, 04:46 PM
Harrison got fined $75,000 for a LEGAL HIT that was not flagged. Whatever happened to "No flag, no foul?" Or "innocent until proven guilty?" OH YEAH, it doesn'y apply to Steelers.

When is there going to be a "Harrison Rule" You know, like the Hines Ward Rule, Rod Woodson Rule, Mel Blount Rule, etc... I kind of like these titles, they keep restricting us, we just KEEP WINNING. Jealousy on the part of Goodell, and the NFL. $^% them if they can't take a hit.

floodcitygirl
10-19-2010, 05:09 PM
Can the Steelers or just Harrison appeal?

SuzyPeppercorn
10-19-2010, 05:16 PM
I'm dumbfounded that Harrison was fined. Absolute ****

I guess we are slowly turning into a flag football league :noidea:

rbryan
10-19-2010, 05:23 PM
Could be worse...I expected a suspension from lapdog Goodell. I just hope for his sake he checked with Kraft and Bellicheater before he fined Merriweather.

The legend of Debo grows even larger. Think Cribbs and Massaqoui might find a reason to sit out the next Stillers game?

Lets see how many underneath routes the Tunafish run this weekend.

SteelersinCA
10-19-2010, 05:30 PM
Like I said, piss the Steelers off, then feel the wrath. I welcome it.

BigRick
10-19-2010, 05:37 PM
that's crap, robinson's hit was way worse than harrison's, he should get fined more. harrison looked like he was trying to avoid a helmet hit by shoving instead of leveling him with a shoulder hit which would have been much worse.

I agree. This whole thing is bullshit! It.s getting to the point that a player can't make a tackle. As far as Dungy is concerned F--- him I live close to Indy and had to listen to him for years complaining because the defenses around the leauge beat up his pussies Harrison and Wayne.:tt03:

frunko1
10-19-2010, 05:47 PM
This is bs. If the nfl really cared about player safety they would force all players to wear the newest gear, mouth guards, helmets, flak jackets etc.

Many players are out their playing with old gear, look at favre running around with a mid 90s helmet and no mouth guard. If he is allowed to play with unsafe equipment why should I think the nfl really cares about safety.

Also the nfl needs to put more pressure on manufacturers to come up with better gear. Helmet tech seems very out dated compared to the latest and greatest motorcycle tech, the is a new helmet with a soft outerlayer, hard inner...
http://www.idc.uk.com/about/news/idc-news/new-helmet-design-speeds-ahead-in-safety/

Also if they did truly care about safety, the gear would be 100% custom fitted, and also would have more of a wrap around offering chin/jaw protection.

jjpro11
10-19-2010, 05:50 PM
I agree. This whole thing is bullshit! It.s getting to the point that a player can't make a tackle. As far as Dungy is concerned F--- him I live close to Indy and had to listen to him for years complaining because the defenses around the leauge beat up his pussies Harrison and Wayne.:tt03:

the Colts are the ones who started all of this bitching and moaning about defenses playing too rough way back when the Pats beat up their receivers in the playoffs. since then, it's been non-stop. Polian has been pushing all these rule changes to help his offense-first team.

theplatypus
10-19-2010, 05:58 PM
What a crock of shit! If they want to stop helmet to helmet hits put them back in leather helmets.

fugawzi
10-19-2010, 06:04 PM
Hey everyone,

I know I'm not gonna be too popular around here, especially this week. I do post here from time to time. So I might as well be even less-popular and say that I agree with the fines. I'll go even further and say that they all should have been suspended, IF the NFL is going to claim that new rules and policies are being enacted. Why wait until it happens again if that's now the rule?

I live in PIT actually saw the Steelers game this past weekend, saw the hits in question live. I immediately said "They're getting away with helmet to helmet" to the Steelers fans I was watching the game with. Not one of them said anything, objected or disagreed with me. Maybe they just weren't saying it, but I would think they would since I was pretty outnumbered.

I've watched most if not all of the Steelers games in the last 4 years. I don't think Harrison is a "dirty" player at all. He DOES have to be careful though, because it seems the league is keeping an eye on him. Wasn't he fined earlier in the year for "slamming" Vince Young on his head? That's probably why they're saying he's a repeat offender. He had 2 helmet to helmet hits last weekend. Regardless of intention or non intentional, the league is going to look at that.

Like I said I don't think he's dirty, but I do think he walks a thin line and sometimes he needs to not try so hard to "hurt" the opposing player. (Someone else here said he also shouldn't be going to the press and saying yes he does try to hurt people - agreed)

It's not just the Steelers a lot of teams do it. Football is a violent sport yes.
That doesn't mean that you actually have to try to hurt the other guy, that's not the objective. Yes, I know the Steelers have a reputation for their mean defense and they want to intimidate, I get it. You just have to tackle. If he gets hurt in the process then so be it, but it's not necessary to TRY to hurt him. See the difference?

Hockey is another violent sport that I love to watch, love the Penguins. I don't see those guys going helmet to helmet nearly as much as in the NFL. Why is that? (And they're even ALLOWED to beat the s*** out of each other)

One last thing, if anyone's interested I actually found the list of rules that were made after certain players there's lots of players from different teams. I didn't know about a lot of these rules. Here's a link:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Football_League_lore#Rules_named_after_NF L_figures

GMU Steeler
10-19-2010, 06:13 PM
This is such crap by the league here. They didn't flag him for it in the game number 1 and number 2 they even had their officials saying it was legal the next day and now you fine James. It's not about the money to me, it's about the principle. And Rodney Harrison has no room to talk about dirty hits. Hypocrite.

BigRick
10-19-2010, 06:19 PM
:helmet:the Colts are the ones who started all of this bitching and moaning about defenses playing too rough way back when the Pats beat up their receivers in the playoffs. since then, it's been non-stop. Polian has been pushing all these rule changes to help his offense-first team.

Exactly I think it was in the 03 playoffs. Basicly the whole Colts outfit is a bunch of crybabies! If Harrison hit Maning like that they would want him drawn a quartered. I hate to see any player seriously hurt but like several people pointed out football is a violent game. Also they shouldn't be able to use game film to fine a player if no penalty was called on the fiel

Fire Arians
10-19-2010, 06:36 PM
Hey everyone,

I know I'm not gonna be too popular around here, especially this week. I do post here from time to time. So I might as well be even less-popular and say that I agree with the fines. I'll go even further and say that they all should have been suspended, IF the NFL is going to claim that new rules and policies are being enacted. Why wait until it happens again if that's now the rule?

I live in PIT actually saw the Steelers game this past weekend, saw the hits in question live. I immediately said "They're getting away with helmet to helmet" to the Steelers fans I was watching the game with. Not one of them said anything, objected or disagreed with me. Maybe they just weren't saying it, but I would think they would since I was pretty outnumbered.

I've watched most if not all of the Steelers games in the last 4 years. I don't think Harrison is a "dirty" player at all. He DOES have to be careful though, because it seems the league is keeping an eye on him. Wasn't he fined earlier in the year for "slamming" Vince Young on his head? That's probably why they're saying he's a repeat offender. He had 2 helmet to helmet hits last weekend. Regardless of intention or non intentional, the league is going to look at that.

Like I said I don't think he's dirty, but I do think he walks a thin line and sometimes he needs to not try so hard to "hurt" the opposing player. (Someone else here said he also shouldn't be going to the press and saying yes he does try to hurt people - agreed)

It's not just the Steelers a lot of teams do it. Football is a violent sport yes.
That doesn't mean that you actually have to try to hurt the other guy, that's not the objective. Yes, I know the Steelers have a reputation for their mean defense and they want to intimidate, I get it. You just have to tackle. If he gets hurt in the process then so be it, but it's not necessary to TRY to hurt him. See the difference?

Hockey is another violent sport that I love to watch, love the Penguins. I don't see those guys going helmet to helmet nearly as much as in the NFL. Why is that? (And they're even ALLOWED to beat the s*** out of each other)

One last thing, if anyone's interested I actually found the list of rules that were made after certain players there's lots of players from different teams. I didn't know about a lot of these rules. Here's a link:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Football_League_lore#Rules_named_after_NF L_figures

all i heard was hate, hate, hate, hate, you just wish your team was as physical and dominating as ours, and your best player was an ex-steeler

your avatar is nice though

harts
10-19-2010, 06:37 PM
football is about pain
it's about enforcing your will on someone else.
The game is brutal and violent and being more brutal and violent than your opponent is a key aspect in winning and losing in this game

NFL is too worried about public perception - ESPN and the like has blown this way out of proportion.
I wish the NFL would handle the media the way MLB does because these fines are excessive

Players will adjust but the injuries will continue (just a different type -ribs broken -- legs broken etc)

fugawzi
10-19-2010, 06:41 PM
all i heard was hate, hate, hate, hate, you just wish your team was as physical and dominating as ours, and your best player was an ex-steeler

your avatar is nice though

Not hating, just disagreeing. You can still be physical and dominating without trying to hurt the other guy. Where does it state that trying to hurt the guy is the objective? It's the NFL, not UFC. Guess that would make the Falcons and Patriots defenses physical and dominating too, since their guys got fined?

And if you mean Joey Porter he sucked for us. Had one good year in 2008 that was about it. Overpaid, overrated, and ran his loud ass mouth too much. Just had a way better supporting cast in PIT that's all.

Nevermore
10-19-2010, 06:45 PM
First off, I'm not here as a Ravens fan, but as a football fan.... so please don't go crazy because I cheer for Baltimore.

I find this conversation very interesting. I don't think the league is trying to wussify the game, or say you can't hit people hard or make it flag football. The league is trying to protect the players from SERIOUS injury. No one can say that the head hunting that some players engage in with the intent to hurt others will not eventually lead to someone getting seriously injured or killed. Just because it may be the way the game was always played doesn't mean it has to remain. Helmet to helmet is not a new rule. It is already in the books and all of the fines given out this week were clear helmet to helmet hits. There is no question. I agree that the league can do more in terms of safety equipment, but this is the quickest and easiest way to hopefully slow down the concussion issues.

Listening to this conversation it seems that a majority of you have no problem with people going helmet to helmet at full speed. What if Cribbs was paralyzed like the poor Rutgers player this weekend? What about Heap? Is the consensus that the game is violent and hitting each other in the head with the intent to hurt is fine and if someone is in a wheelchair for the rest of their life that is just too bad? I hope not. Technology and rules evolve in all sports to protect the participants more. Sometimes it changes the game, sometimes not. Hockey players now wear helmets. NASCAR requires the Hans device. There are all kinds of examples.

I'm not for making the game weak or the league soft. But I am for protecting the players. If Ray Lewis put his helmet in Hines Ward's ear and broke his neck, I'm sure everyone would be calling for his head. And I think they all should. Let's keep the players on the field so we can watch them every Sunday.

fugawzi
10-19-2010, 06:50 PM
I find this conversation very interesting. I don't think the league is trying to wussify the game, or say you can't hit people hard or make it flag football. The league is trying to protect the players from SERIOUS injury...I'm not for making the game weak or the league soft. But I am for protecting the players. If Ray Lewis put his helmet in Hines Ward's ear and broke his neck, I'm sure everyone would be calling for his head. And I think they all should. Let's keep the players on the field so we can watch them every Sunday.

Great post.

Fire Haley
10-19-2010, 06:58 PM
Welp - they made it clear, can't tackle high - that is the law - - nothing to do now but start hitting low, blowing up people's knees

Instead of losing a player for a week for a concussion they will be gone for the season with a blown out knee

harts
10-19-2010, 06:58 PM
Helmet to helmet hits that are deliberate like Merriweathers hit
Yes fine him clean that up
But harrisons hits
The falcons guy hit
were clean shots

Imagine if harrison would have got low enough to hit #11 in his chest or legs.
Seeing how fast harrison was going and how much bigger harrison is than that receiver the result would have been just as worse
BUT instead of a concussion it would have been broken ribs or legs.

man up people
I knew football players should have never started to wear pink :doh:

SteelCityMom
10-19-2010, 07:02 PM
Hey everyone,

I know I'm not gonna be too popular around here, especially this week. I do post here from time to time. So I might as well be even less-popular and say that I agree with the fines. I'll go even further and say that they all should have been suspended, IF the NFL is going to claim that new rules and policies are being enacted. Why wait until it happens again if that's now the rule?

Most won't give you too much crap who you root for with your avatar :chuckle:...just had to get that out of the way cause it's true.

I live in PIT actually saw the Steelers game this past weekend, saw the hits in question live. I immediately said "They're getting away with helmet to helmet" to the Steelers fans I was watching the game with. Not one of them said anything, objected or disagreed with me. Maybe they just weren't saying it, but I would think they would since I was pretty outnumbered.

The hit on Cribbs wasn't "getting away with helmet to helmet". He wasn't a defenseless receiver, therefore helmet to helmet isn't illegal. That's why there was no fine handed out for that hit, let alone a suspension.

I've watched most if not all of the Steelers games in the last 4 years. I don't think Harrison is a "dirty" player at all. He DOES have to be careful though, because it seems the league is keeping an eye on him. Wasn't he fined earlier in the year for "slamming" Vince Young on his head? That's probably why they're saying he's a repeat offender. He had 2 helmet to helmet hits last weekend. Regardless of intention or non intentional, the league is going to look at that.

Like I said I don't think he's dirty, but I do think he walks a thin line and sometimes he needs to not try so hard to "hurt" the opposing player. (Someone else here said he also shouldn't be going to the press and saying yes he does try to hurt people - agreed)

Part of the game of football is trying to inflict some pain (hurt) on the opposing players. Take that away and you might as well put flags on the guys. I appreciate him saying what he said to the media...at least he's honest about it. These guys know what they're doing out there...and it's not trying to be nice to the other guys.

It's not just the Steelers a lot of teams do it. Football is a violent sport yes.
That doesn't mean that you actually have to try to hurt the other guy, that's not the objective. Yes, I know the Steelers have a reputation for their mean defense and they want to intimidate, I get it. You just have to tackle. If he gets hurt in the process then so be it, but it's not necessary to TRY to hurt him. See the difference?

Be honest...every player (at least those on defense, and most on offense), want to be able to put a hurt on the opposing players. You can't allow it to be a violent sport w/o guys wanting to put others in pain. Just the way it is.

Hockey is another violent sport that I love to watch, love the Penguins. I don't see those guys going helmet to helmet nearly as much as in the NFL. Why is that? (And they're even ALLOWED to beat the s*** out of each other)

The reason you don't see as much helmet to helmet contact in hockey is because the objective is different. In football, you have guys doing what they can to get an extra yard. To do that, most players lead with their heads and shoulders...same goes for the defense too. They lead with their heads and shoulders to stop the other guy. Only way you're really ever going to get rid of this is if you take the tackling out of the game.

*Edit* And I know I've heard people say that "well they need to learn how to tackle better/safer so that they are aiming for the numbers and leading with the shoulders. Explain to me how a defender is supposed to hit a RB or WR in the numbers with his shoulders when the RB or WR is leading with his head? Like Killer said, with these new rules, all you're going to get is defenders blowing out guys knees cause they can no longer tackle high.

And no, hockey players are not "allowed" to beat the shit out of each other...the refs just don't stop it immediately sometimes for their own safety. That's why players will get penalties, misconducts and sometimes fines and suspensions for fights and hits. You don't see as many head shots in hockey b/c hockey is more of a stand up game. The rules are very clear on head shots though, just like they are in football...and not both of Harrison's hits were deemed illegal, only one.

SteelCityMom
10-19-2010, 07:07 PM
Welp - they made it clear, can't tackle high - that is the law - - nothing to do now but start hitting low, blowing up people's knees

Instead of losing a player for a week for a concussion they will be gone for the season with a blown out knee

Just saw your post...I guess that means they made it official (like the new headshot rules in hockey last year).

I'm all for player safety too, but they're stupid if they think these new rules are going to make the game better. It's a high speed, high contact game...this stuffs going to happen regardless. I agree with whoever said that if the league was really concerned about safety they'd quit fiddling with the rules and put stricter regulations on the gear the players wear.

theplatypus
10-19-2010, 07:10 PM
Just saw your post...I guess that means they made it official (like the new headshot rules in hockey last year).

I'm all for player safety too, but they're stupid if they think these new rules are going to make the game better. It's a high speed, high contact game...this stuffs going to happen regardless. I agree with whoever said that if the league was really concerned about safety they'd quit fiddling with the rules and put stricter regulations on the gear the players wear.


That's what I say, put them back in leather helmets.

jjpro11
10-19-2010, 07:16 PM
First off, I'm not here as a Ravens fan, but as a football fan.... so please don't go crazy because I cheer for Baltimore.

I find this conversation very interesting. I don't think the league is trying to wussify the game, or say you can't hit people hard or make it flag football. The league is trying to protect the players from SERIOUS injury. No one can say that the head hunting that some players engage in with the intent to hurt others will not eventually lead to someone getting seriously injured or killed. Just because it may be the way the game was always played doesn't mean it has to remain. Helmet to helmet is not a new rule. It is already in the books and all of the fines given out this week were clear helmet to helmet hits. There is no question. I agree that the league can do more in terms of safety equipment, but this is the quickest and easiest way to hopefully slow down the concussion issues.

Listening to this conversation it seems that a majority of you have no problem with people going helmet to helmet at full speed. What if Cribbs was paralyzed like the poor Rutgers player this weekend? What about Heap? Is the consensus that the game is violent and hitting each other in the head with the intent to hurt is fine and if someone is in a wheelchair for the rest of their life that is just too bad? I hope not. Technology and rules evolve in all sports to protect the participants more. Sometimes it changes the game, sometimes not. Hockey players now wear helmets. NASCAR requires the Hans device. There are all kinds of examples.

I'm not for making the game weak or the league soft. But I am for protecting the players. If Ray Lewis put his helmet in Hines Ward's ear and broke his neck, I'm sure everyone would be calling for his head. And I think they all should. Let's keep the players on the field so we can watch them every Sunday.


are you serious dude? the Ravens were the ones accused of putting bounties out on players.

i love how all these fans of other teams are acting all high and mighty right now.. their players weren't accused of anything... yet.

a few weeks ago TJ Ward was the toast of town for his huge hit on Shipley. now Cleveland fans can't stop crying about big bad James Harrison. they were also celebrating Ben's injury a couple years ago, as well as his motorcycle accident before that. they are nothing but hypocrites and i have lost a ton of respect for them. all they know how to do any more is cry for sympathy because their franchise is garbage.

jjpro11
10-19-2010, 07:21 PM
Just saw your post...I guess that means they made it official (like the new headshot rules in hockey last year).

I'm all for player safety too, but they're stupid if they think these new rules are going to make the game better. It's a high speed, high contact game...this stuffs going to happen regardless. I agree with whoever said that if the league was really concerned about safety they'd quit fiddling with the rules and put stricter regulations on the gear the players wear.

the NHL needs to watch their asses too. Letang got thrown out of a game last week for a shoulder-on-shoulder hit. that sport thrives on toughness and fans love big hits there just as much as in football.

Fire Arians
10-19-2010, 07:23 PM
are you serious dude? the Ravens were the ones accused of putting bounties out on players.

i love how all these fans of other teams are acting all high and mighty right now.. their players weren't accused of anything... yet.

a few weeks ago TJ Ward was the toast of town for his huge hit on Shipley. now Cleveland fans can't stop crying about big bad James Harrison. they were also celebrating Ben's injury a couple years ago, as well as his motorcycle accident before that. they are nothing but hypocrites and i have lost a ton of respect for them. all they know how to do any more is cry for sympathy because their franchise is garbage.

the ravens can sure dish it out but can't take it. wasn't ray lewis actually celebrating when he broke mendenhall's shoulder? i haven't seen harrison celebrating after he knocked cribbs or massaquoi out of the game. if anything he showed concern when they were hurt.

but yeah what do you expect from that classless organization known as the ravens :chuckle:

they put up all kind of bounties with the intention of INJURING other players, but cry a freakin river when big todd heap can't even handle a shot from someone like half his size

lionslicer
10-19-2010, 07:27 PM
Wow i wasn't expecting $75,000...

Did you hear what the Browns recievers agent said? He said NFL should suspend James until the Browns reciever can return to play
There were like 3 other players that also got fined 50k+

And Rodney Harrison should be kicked in the nuts... a thousand times. He would put aside 50k every year because he knew he would rack up a lot of fines.

fugawzi
10-19-2010, 07:27 PM
are you serious dude? the Ravens were the ones accused of putting bounties out on players. i love how all these fans of other teams are acting all high and mighty right now.. their players weren't accused of anything... yet.

I think it's good to get an outsider's perspective. It's not just a Steelers issue, there were 2 other teams' players who were fined. If "my" players got fined I'd feel the same way.

SteelCityMom
10-19-2010, 07:31 PM
the NHL needs to watch their asses too. Letang got thrown out of a game last week for a shoulder-on-shoulder hit. that sport thrives on toughness and fans love big hits there just as much as in football.

You aren't kidding. I was spitting fire when they gave him a game misconduct. I understand things happen fast and that the refs are supposed to err on the side of caution, but if they're going to be that strict about it then they need to have someway to review the hit after it happens to see if it warrants a punishment like that (and you know Toronto can too, they review all the goals, they can review the hits to make sure a penalty like that is warranted).

If I'm not mistaken, it also goes on his "record" as a game misconduct...meaning that if he ever is involved in another hit like that this year, he can be suspended as a repeat offender. Total bullshit. I have strong dislike for Bettman too.

Atlanta Dan
10-19-2010, 07:37 PM
First off, I'm not here as a Ravens fan, but as a football fan.... so please don't go crazy because I cheer for Baltimore.

Just because it may be the way the game was always played doesn't mean it has to remain. Helmet to helmet is not a new rule. It is already in the books and all of the fines given out this week were clear helmet to helmet hits. There is no question. I agree that the league can do more in terms of safety equipment, but this is the quickest and easiest way to hopefully slow down the concussion issues.

Listening to this conversation it seems that a majority of you have no problem with people going helmet to helmet at full speed. What if Cribbs was paralyzed like the poor Rutgers player this weekend?

I do not think a majority of posters here pine away for the good old days of Jack Tatum paralyzing Daryl Stingley - speaking for myself, what gets me sort of chapped is a league office making up new rules to deal with a PR problem rather than properly enforce the rules as they are written

The Cribbs hit was not a penalty - you can go helmet to helmet on a running back - maybe the rule should change but walk me through why the Cribbs hit was even improper

Although he may not be your favorite coach, Mike Tomlin probably has pretty good knowledge of the rule book - here is his take on the Cribbs hit

"Cribbs was a wildcat quarterback, he's a runner - and those guys are not protected,'' Tomlin said. "A few weeks ago, you asked why (Steelers quarterback) Dennis Dixon does not run. The NFL is a dangerous place for non-running backs running in close quarters.'

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2010/football/nfl/10/19/tomlin.ap/index.html?eref=sihp

But if you do not buy into what Tomlin is selling, even the league office is not claiming the Cribbs hit should have drawn a flag

NFL football operations executive Ray Anderson said on ESPN that

Steelers linebacker James Harrison's hit on Browns receiver Josh Cribbs would not qualify as an illegal hit, he said, because Cribbs was a runner in possession with the ball.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=5702673

The Meriweather hit on Heap hit was awful - a flag was thrown - a fine was properly imposed - i have not read anyone applauding that hit here

Dunta Robinson's hit on DeSean Jackson drew a flag - a fine was imposed But at least one player, who presumably does not enjoy seeing his fellow players injured and probably has a better working knowledge of the rules than either of us, is asking whether the Robinson hit was even a penalty

Texans tackle Eric Winston, a former college teammate of Meriweather at Miami, and a former teammate of Robinson in Houston, saw dissimilarities in the two tackles involving those players.

"I love Brandon to death, but that was a flagrant foul. That's what the league is talking about," Winston said. "Dunta's hit, that wasn't even with the helmet. That was just a collision. I don't think that's what they're talking about. I think they're talking more about the Meriweather stuff, where it's not only leading with your helmet, but it's also a launching. You know it when you see it, and there's a difference.

"I'm the first one to say that not every penalty should be a fine. But there is a difference between whether it's a flagrant-ejection kind of a hit or whether it's a 15-yard penalty."

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=5703113

So we get down to the hit on Mohamed Massaquoi - as of Tuesday morning, the league office was not even certain it was an improper hit. But after listening to the amen chorus of Rodney Harrison and Saint Tony Dungy that "something must be done" the league slams James Harrison with a higher fine than Robinson and Meriweather on a play that it took the league office 2 days to decide was even improper.

Again, i know you will claim he is biased and protecting his player but i will go with Tomlin over either of us on what is authorized under the rules - Tomlin said it was legal hit - if it clearly was not then one must ask how the refs missed such an "obvious" call of a defensive player hitting a receiver who could not defend himself (even the league office is not relying on the helmet to helmet rule on this one)

Bottom line is the league has a PR problem on these hits, after covering up for decades the long term adverse consequences of concussions, and needed to make some ritual sacrifices regardless of whether those disciplinary actions are actually supported if the rules are actually applied as they are written - but as I said at the start of this post, that is pretty much the way it goes in the league office under Goodell - Goodell needed a trophy on the wall and whacking a high profile player like James Harrison on a high profile team such as the Steelers buys more bang for the buck than disciplining two DBs most fans have never heard of

In closing, the hypocrisy of a league office that has denied consistently the long term consequences of head trauma arising from playing football (no fans have more examples of those consequences than those of us who have followed the demise of ex-Steelers such as Mike Webster) is just overwhelming based on this pious claim by Anderson

"So we will take all the criticism and all the backlash," Anderson added. "We're not going to be apologetic, we're not going to be defensive about it. We are going to protect our players

By going to an 18 game schedule :banging:

fugawzi
10-19-2010, 07:40 PM
The hit on Cribbs wasn't "getting away with helmet to helmet". He wasn't a defenseless receiver, therefore helmet to helmet isn't illegal. That's why there was no fine handed out for that hit, let alone a suspension.

You're right, 2 different hits and the league even deemed the first one legal. I said what I said after the 2nd one because I felt that one wasn't called and should have been. Still if the NFL says there's new rules then be consistent and follow through with the suspensions.


Part of the game of football is trying to inflict some pain (hurt) on the opposing players. Take that away and you might as well put flags on the guys. I appreciate him saying what he said to the media...at least he's honest about it. These guys know what they're doing out there...and it's not trying to be nice to the other guys...Be honest...every player (at least those on defense, and most on offense), want to be able to put a hurt on the opposing players. You can't allow it to be a violent sport w/o guys wanting to put others in pain. Just the way it is

I disagree. It's not the UFC. That's what they do, try to hurt/inflict pain/knockout/tapout etc. The NFL is different. It's fast paced and hard hitting, but there is supposed to be a level of skill there also. It's not "kill the other guy until there's no one left standing"

The reason you don't see as much helmet to helmet contact in hockey is because the objective is different. You don't see as many head shots in hockey b/c hockey is more of a stand up game. In football, you have guys doing what they can to get an extra yard. To do that, most players lead with their heads and shoulders...same goes for the defense too. They lead with their heads and shoulders to stop the other guy. Only way you're really ever going to get rid of this is if you take the tackling out of the game.

I still think you can tackle without having to lead with your head into the other guy's head. That's what is at issue here. There's nothing wrong with the shoulders, I don't think anyone's complaining about that, at least they shouldn't be.

And no, hockey players are not "allowed" to beat the shit out of each other...the refs just don't stop it immediately sometimes for their own safety. That's why players will get penalties, misconducts and sometimes fines and suspensions for fights and hits.

Great points. I just see way more fighting and more tolerance of it in Hockey than I do football. That's another topic though...

ZoneBlitzer
10-19-2010, 07:49 PM
Playbook had excellent analysis of Harrison's second hit and the other hits. They were spot on and Harrison was deserving of the 75k levy.

In addition, I think Harrison got 75k for the previous offense AND for blurting out that he wanted to hurt people. You can dance semantically all around in a circle as much as you like but that ain't good PR for the NFL to have players coming out saying that they want to "hurt people".

I think what the NFL did get wrong was the fine on Merriweather. That was flagrant and an attempt to injure IMO. He should've gotten like 100,000 grand or a suspension. If that happened in a hockey game he would have gotten the shit beaten out of him and rightly so.

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-network-playbook/09000d5d81b75bc6/Playbook-Were-some-hits-legal

SteelCityMom
10-19-2010, 07:52 PM
I disagree. It's not the UFC. That's what they do, try to hurt/inflict pain/knockout/tapout etc. The NFL is different. It's fast paced and hard hitting, but there is supposed to be a level of skill there also. It's not "kill the other guy until there's no one left standing"

No, not trying to go out there an purposefully injure or kill anyone, but every football player (at least defenders) will tell you that they want to inflict pain on the other guys. That was my point. And that perspective is not about to change. Yes, it's a game of skill...but it's a game of intimidation too. Always will be until they change the rules so much that you can't even tackle a guy anymore.



I still think you can tackle without having to lead with your head into the other guy's head. That's what is at issue here. There's nothing wrong with the shoulders, I don't think anyone's complaining about that, at least they shouldn't be.

Again, explain to me how (without constantly going low on a player), is a defender supposed to tackle a RB or WR in the numbers, with their shoulders, when the RB or WR is already leaning forward and leading with their head? It's not possible. Not at this game speed. Even if a defender is coming from the side it's difficult to completely avoid helmet to helmet contact.

I still think instead of changing the rules they need to focus on making the gear safer (as has been mentioned). I'm all for player safety, but some of this is getting ridiculous.

lionslicer
10-19-2010, 07:55 PM
You're right, 2 different hits and the league even deemed the first one legal. I said what I said after the 2nd one because I felt that one wasn't called and should have been. Still if the NFL says there's new rules then be consistent and follow through with the suspensions.




I disagree. It's not the UFC. That's what they do, try to hurt/inflict pain/knockout/tapout etc. The NFL is different. It's fast paced and hard hitting, but there is supposed to be a level of skill there also. It's not "kill the other guy until there's no one left standing"



I still think you can tackle without having to lead with your head into the other guy's head. That's what is at issue here. There's nothing wrong with the shoulders, I don't think anyone's complaining about that, at least they shouldn't be.



Great points. I just see way more fighting and more tolerance of it in Hockey than I do football. That's another topic though...

Football is skill, but players rely on intimidation so that the other team doesn't play towards them or tries to use more people to stop that player, which opens up more play for the defense (or offense in some cases). So the essence of hurting other players is a part of the whole chess match of football.

When you fundamentally tackle someone, you aim your head towards their lower chest, this is how everyone is taught because your helmet has a chance of jaring the ball loose. The problem with this is the player if the ball lowers his head to get some extra yards, someone like Harrison comming in low can hurt people like Cribbs.

But ball carries can get hit, they have the ball, they know what could happen to them.
Reciever dont' always know whats comming. You can't just lead with your shoulder when you hit a reciever trying to make an incompletion. You're head is on your shoulders, if the reciever comes down faster than you anticipated, helmet to helmet happens occasionally. But you could say they could just fundementally tackled the reciever, just really hard. Players today are too big, and when tackled like that, they will not drop the ball, it will just be a tackle, which is not what a saftey wants to do, they want to inflict a big hit, thats what they are taught.

The hit on the Browns reciever was legal, because the reciever took a step and was making a football move before Harrison nailed him. Harrison also put his forearms in front of his helmet, but his helmet still made contact, he wasn't doing it on purpose. But the browns reciever still covered the ball up and made a football move, by the rules he is a runner and not a defenseless reciever

SH-Rock
10-19-2010, 08:03 PM
Goodell can put a **** up his ass, and the NFL executive team

fugawzi
10-19-2010, 08:09 PM
The hit on the Browns reciever was legal, because the reciever took a step and was making a football move before Harrison nailed him. Harrison also put his forearms in front of his helmet, but his helmet still made contact, he wasn't doing it on purpose. But the browns reciever still covered the ball up and made a football move, by the rules he is a runner and not a defenseless reciever


See I think they deemed it illegal because he "launched" himself, or left his feet while leading with his head/forearm. The Browns' receiver dropped the ball, so I guess that's why they considered it "defenseless receiver". It is crazy and nearly impossible that these guys have to try to not do all of these things considered illegal in a split second reaction time.

I also think the league is holding that "slamming" Vince Young on his head thing against Harrison still, coupled with the fact that he said he tries to hurt people to the media. That's why his fine was more and they called him a "repeat offender". It's not that his hits were so much worse than the other hits. The Dunta Robinson hit should not have been fined.

Fire Haley
10-19-2010, 08:15 PM
Defensive players around the league don't like it - they know it could be them next


Browns' Fujita calls league stance on hits hypocritical

Fujita - basically saying the league is being hypocritical for selling the big hit as part of the game, and now trying to suspend players for that big hit.

"The same league that's talking about fining players for these hits and talking about maybe now suspending players for these hits who pretends to care so much about our health and safety, let's be honest," Fujita said. "They don't give a crap. Let's be perfectly honest about that.

"Eighteen games is asking a lot. And 18 games now without even a discussion about changing the vesting requirements for post-career medical. It's pretty astonishing. Another thing, too. This league is talking so much about these big hits and how they're trying to prevent that and protect the players. Well these are the same big hits they're showing around the clock on every [channel], NFL Network and everything else and trying to get everyone hyped up about the game of football......

Well why are you advertising all of this stuff if it's against the rules? Same thing with some of these celebration penalties and everything else. They're fining guys like crazy for it and calling penalties, but that's the stuff they use to promote their games. So to me, it's kind of a weird deal. They need to get on the same page and figure out exactly what they need to do."

Fujita didn't feel the criticisms of Harrison's shots were justified. Fujita said even though people in Cleveland and around the NFL are in an uproar with Harrison's hits on the Browns' Mohamed Massaquoi and Josh Cribbs, Fujita said he felt like they were "pretty good defensive plays."

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/story/14155978/browns-fujita-calls-league-stance-on-hits-hypocritical

Fire Arians
10-19-2010, 08:16 PM
^^ he didn't lead with the forearm or that definitely would have been something i would say yeah he deserved to be fined. it looked like a shove to me, which isn't something you get fined for. believe me if james popped massaquoi with a shoulder instead that guy probably would be dead considering the size difference and speed they were both moving at.

if anything it looked like the fact harrison led with his HANDS might have saved that kid's career, or even his life. yes that was a heavy collision but believe me, if james wanted to, he could have made that hit MUCH worse for little mohammed.

lionslicer
10-19-2010, 08:18 PM
See I think they deemed it illegal because he "launched" himself, or left his feet while leading with his head/forearm. The Browns' receiver dropped the ball, so I guess that's why they considered it "defenseless receiver". It is crazy and nearly impossible that these guys have to try to not do all of these things considered illegal in a split second reaction time.

I also think the league is holding that "slamming" Vince Young on his head thing against Harrison still, coupled with the fact that he said he tries to hurt people to the media. That's why his fine was more and they called him a "repeat offender". It's not that his hits were so much worse than the other hits. The Dunta Robinson hit should not have been fined.

There is no way Harrison could have known he dropped the ball, at his angle all he could see was the reciever running towards him. What is he supposed to do? Risk a big play to wait for the player to turn around to see if he has the ball or not? Irst rediculous.

I think Goodell just doing this to get the media off his back for contradicting himself the whole season talking about player saftey but wanting to extend the regular season to 18 games

JEFF4i
10-19-2010, 08:18 PM
Thank you Fujita.

lionslicer
10-19-2010, 08:20 PM
^^ he didn't lead with the forearm or that definitely would have been something i would say yeah he deserved to be fined. it looked like a shove to me, which isn't something you get fined for. believe me if james popped massaquoi with a shoulder instead that guy probably would be dead considering the size difference and speed they were both moving at.

if anything it looked like the fact harrison led with his HANDS might have saved that kid's career, or even his life

I didn't say he lead with his forearm, he lead with his forearms in front of his helmet, which by NFL rules means he isn't leading with his helmet.

The rules state that a player is leading with his helmet when his arms are by his sides and his helmet is the only thing he launches towards the player, like a spear if you will.

Fire Arians
10-19-2010, 08:21 PM
I didn't say he lead with his forearm, he lead with his forearms in front of his helmet, which by NFL rules means he isn't leading with his helmet.

The rules state that a player is leading with his helmet when his arms are by his sides and his helmet is the only thing he launches towards the player, like a spear if you will.

no i was replying to the dolphins fan, not you. you just posted a couple seconds before i did. but in either case i watched the replay in slo mo a few times and it looked like harrison shoved the kid hands-first, not helmet first, and it definitely wasn't a forearm blow. if it was one of those, that kid would still be in the hospital or worse

his technique was purely legal, he just got fined because it was just a nasty hit and the NFL is trying to save face in the wake of concussions being a huge issue. it is what it is

lionslicer
10-19-2010, 08:24 PM
no i was replying to the dolphins fan, not you. you just posted a couple seconds before i did.

its sarright

http://www.shaunoakes.com/images/speedy-gonzales.jpg

Atlanta Dan
10-19-2010, 08:28 PM
I think Goodell just doing this to get the media off his back for contradicting himself the whole season talking about player saftey but wanting to extend the regular season to 18 games

As you and I discussed at length in another thread, everything Goodell does is based on how to spin the PR - uniform application of the existing rules is irrelevant to this crew

Pete Prisco sums it up

Is the NFL overreacting? That's what they do when the media goes bonkers on a subject, which they are about the hits.

http://www.cbssports.com/mcc/blogs/entry/6315047/25347635

jjpro11
10-19-2010, 08:31 PM
Harrison made a great point today about his hit on Massaquoi. as Massaquoi was running and fumbling around with the football, he lowered his head and was bending over. had he been running straight up and not bending over, the hit would have been forearm-to-shoulder. just wtf was Harrison supposed to do there? drop low and take out his knees? keep in mind this is all at full speed.

look at the point where they made contact and how low Massaquoi's head was. it's unbelievable the league is too stupid to realize actually what happened. it would be one thing if Massaquoi was running straight up and Harrison launched himself straight up through Massaquoi's chin strap, pretty much what Brandon Merriweather did. but Harrison clearly did not.

http://img442.imageshack.us/img442/64/harrisonhit2.jpg

zulater
10-19-2010, 09:15 PM
Hopefully the union will take up for Harrison and at least get the fine reduced.

tony hipchest
10-19-2010, 09:25 PM
the NFL is using these fines to promote the hits and drive up ratings. they feel guilty glorifying them on highlight shows and "jacked up!" segments, so they shame them and get double the amount of airtime and exposure.

if there werent controversy or fines, does anyone think the robinson and harrison hits would be on their third day of constant replay?

iether way they are making an effort to market the hard hits everyone loves to see. if weekly fines and suspensions dont garner interest and monday morning water cooler talk, i dont know what will.

shame on goodell. :headshake:

Nevermore
10-19-2010, 09:32 PM
are you serious dude? the Ravens were the ones accused of putting bounties out on players.

i love how all these fans of other teams are acting all high and mighty right now.. their players weren't accused of anything... yet.


Did you READ my post?

My opinion has nothing to do with the Ravens or the Steelers or any other team. This is an NFL wide problem that needs to be addressed before people get seriously and permanently hurt. Bounty hunting, hitting to hurt, and celebrating putting a dude in a stretcher is ridiculous, no matter what team it is coming from. I don't want football getting to a point where you watch a guy or two each season end a career because of these hits. If the league continues to allow people to go helmet to helmet, it will only get worse. I agree it is football and there is a violent nature to it, but the point of the game is NOT to inflict pain, but to SCORE more points than the other team. MMA and UFC is a sport that the goal is to inflict pain. If no one gets even a little dinged up in a football game, there is still a winner!

I think that ANY player that hurts another and then cheers about it or is satisfied because that was their intention has no place in the NFL. Hit each other hard. Hit each other legal. Don't try to put a guy on the IR.

This rule is already on the books. This should be a non-issue. The problem is that the stripes are not enforcing it, and in reality 15 yards isn't enough to deter people.

I'm not saying this approach is the only thing the NFL should do, or is even the correct answer. Better safety equipment would be a good start, but this obviously sends a clear message quickly on what is expected and will make people think twice about putting the crown of their helmet into the face mask of another.

JPPT1974
10-19-2010, 09:34 PM
I like Dungy. He is a class act. But these injuries could cost people their career or worse. If you stop and think about it.

jjpro11
10-19-2010, 09:56 PM
Did you READ my post?

My opinion has nothing to do with the Ravens or the Steelers or any other team. This is an NFL wide problem that needs to be addressed before people get seriously and permanently hurt. Bounty hunting, hitting to hurt, and celebrating putting a dude in a stretcher is ridiculous, no matter what team it is coming from. I don't want football getting to a point where you watch a guy or two each season end a career because of these hits. If the league continues to allow people to go helmet to helmet, it will only get worse. I agree it is football and there is a violent nature to it, but the point of the game is NOT to inflict pain, but to SCORE more points than the other team. MMA and UFC is a sport that the goal is to inflict pain. If no one gets even a little dinged up in a football game, there is still a winner!

I think that ANY player that hurts another and then cheers about it or is satisfied because that was their intention has no place in the NFL. Hit each other hard. Hit each other legal. Don't try to put a guy on the IR.

This rule is already on the books. This should be a non-issue. The problem is that the stripes are not enforcing it, and in reality 15 yards isn't enough to deter people.

I'm not saying this approach is the only thing the NFL should do, or is even the correct answer. Better safety equipment would be a good start, but this obviously sends a clear message quickly on what is expected and will make people think twice about putting the crown of their helmet into the face mask of another.


i don't think anyone on here is disagreeing that cheap shots are cheap shots and should be penalized. the Brandon Merriweather hit was a blatant cheap shot. What is really pissing everyone off on here is the league and media are vilifying James Harrison for his two hits and pretty much ignoring Merriweather. it's probably because Harrison has a big name. as to his hits though, the first one was a perfectly legal hit. the second was because the receiver crouched down at the last second and ran right into Harrison's forearm. had he not crouched down, it would have been forearm-to-shoulder and no big deal. it sucks because now Harrison has one strike against him, anything borderline next time will result in a penalty and suspension... and that is pure bullshit.

zulater
10-19-2010, 10:01 PM
he wont get a holding call against him for the rest of the year. the league has probably sent memos to 31 teams that it is open season on his knees.

this is the same as the hines ward rule and the ryan clark rule. before we know it, there will be a casey hampton rule limiting the DL's weight. :doh:

I got genuine concerns that the league is going to make it difficult for Harrison to the point that he wont be able to be the great player that he is. In effect the league is going to try to neuter Harrison, he wont be able to make a hit after a while without wondering what repurcusions will be coming from the league. :doh:

Steeler4life1972
10-19-2010, 10:07 PM
Total and utter bullshit for the fines...you can thank brady and manning for the fines...they started this a few years back. Might as well play flag football...football is for the tough not the pussies. Manning for example will hit the deck if he is about to get hit....when's the last time you saw ben do that?? I saw this coming a few years back!! here's a question....say manning threw a pick and speared a guy while trying to tackle him...do you think they would suspend manning for a helmet to helmet hit??? I think not!!! NFL is trying to protect the least toughest!!! Got out of football if you cant take a hit!!!!

floodcitygirl
10-19-2010, 10:20 PM
Hopefully the union will take up for Harrison and at least get the fine reduced.I asked a question similar to this earlier in this thread. I don't think I got a response. Does anyone know if this decision and fine can be challenged by the Steelers or players union? Thanks!

jjpro11
10-19-2010, 10:21 PM
if McCoy wouldn't have thrown the ball behind Massaquoi and if Massaquoi hadn't bobbled the ball, he would have been hit in the chest and not in the head. Harrison was already bending his knees and lining up the shot to dislodge the ball before Massaquoi started lowering his upper body. it would have still been a big hit even Massaquoi was running straight up with the ball because McCoy had no business setting his receiver up like that over the middle.

tony hipchest
10-19-2010, 10:43 PM
I asked a question similar to this earlier in this thread. I don't think I got a response. Does anyone know if this decision and fine can be challenged by the Steelers or players union? Thanks!james is appealing the fine. good luck to him. he will need LOTS of it.

if McCoy wouldn't have thrown the ball behind Massaquoi and if Massaquoi hadn't bobbled the ball, he would have been hit in the chest and not in the head. Harrison was already bending his knees and lining up the shot to dislodge the ball before Massaquoi started lowering his upper body. it would have still been a big hit even Massaquoi was running straight up with the ball because McCoy had no business setting his receiver up like that over the middle.

spot on.

4xSBChamps
10-20-2010, 05:06 AM
the NFL is using these fines to promote the hits and drive up ratings. they feel guilty glorifying them on highlight shows and "jacked up!" segments, so they shame them and get double the amount of airtime and exposure.


... the same League that glorified, profited handsomely from, and built it's reputation on things like 'The Violent World of Sam Huff', Chuck Bednarik standing over an woozy Frank Gifford, Dick Butkus giggling at the thought of a running-back losing his head, signs at Memorial Stadium encouraging 'KILL-BUBBA-KILL', and a snarling Jack Lambert, is now vilifying contemporary players who play with the same mindset & intensity

steeler_lovin_fool
10-20-2010, 07:10 AM
Good Morning Everyone,

Please check out my page on Facebook.

http://www.facebook.com/pages/Pay-James-Harrisons-Bogus-Fine/134796989903782

I have started this page in support of James Harrison and to send a very strong message to Roger Goodell from STEELER NATION.

I am asking everyone to mail ONE DOLLAR to the league office:

Roger Goodell,
c/o National Football League
280 Park Avenue
New York, NY 10017.

Enclose a note that states: to pay James Harrison's fine
from STEELER NATION
I was interviewed this morning on KDKA radio on the John and Larry show.
I will link you to the interview when it is posted.

Thanks!

chacha
10-20-2010, 07:12 AM
On Mike and Mike today they were showing a picture of Harrion's hit on Massaquoi that you can BUY on the NFL website! Golic made a great point how can you make money off something you fined a player for?

chacha
10-20-2010, 07:23 AM
that's a nice idea, but that I prefer to send the few dollars I have left to charity not football

ramblinjim
10-20-2010, 07:41 AM
That was one of my thoughts too. But what I'm with chacha, if we all decided to do this we should all pony up $10, start a bank account and send a dollar for dollar amount to the charity of Jimmy Hates or other Steelers players choice for the rest of the season.

Stu Pidasso
10-20-2010, 10:28 AM
At least they encouraged good hitting, we got to see the cheerleaders, they didn't have Goodell, and nobody cared about "protecting the quarterbacks"...

Atlanta Dan
10-20-2010, 11:00 AM
Did you READ my post?
I agree it is football and there is a violent nature to it, but the point of the game is NOT to inflict pain, but to SCORE more points than the other team. MMA and UFC is a sport that the goal is to inflict pain. If no one gets even a little dinged up in a football game, there is still a winner!

I think that ANY player that hurts another and then cheers about it or is satisfied because that was their intention has no place in the NFL. Hit each other hard. Hit each other legal. Don't try to put a guy on the IR.

This rule is already on the books. This should be a non-issue. The problem is that the stripes are not enforcing it, and in reality 15 yards isn't enough to deter people.

I'm not saying this approach is the only thing the NFL should do, or is even the correct answer. Better safety equipment would be a good start, but this obviously sends a clear message quickly on what is expected and will make people think twice about putting the crown of their helmet into the face mask of another.

Do you agree you can hit a player legally and still put him on the IR? It is a violent game and players can get hurt when they are hit within the rules

Your future HOF linebacker is not bashful about stating what his job his - notably absent is any reference to scoring points

What’s the best way to intimidate other men?
By pure force. Let me explain my job very simply: My job is to line up five, seven, 10 yards in front of a man and run into him at full speed. There’s one secret to hitting hard, and that is to completely dedicate your body

http://www.mensjournal.com/survival-skills-ray-lewis

I would respectfully suggest that before you come on this board to call out James Harrison walk us through why your outrage was not specified to include these incidents

The National Football League has fined Baltimore Ravens linebacker Ray Lewis $25,000 for a hit on Cincinnati Bengals wide receiver Chad Ochocinco on Sunday, ignoring Ochocinco's request that NFL Commissioner Roger Goodell spare Lewis a fine.

The hit happened when Ochocinco was running a pattern over the middle, and it sent Ochocinco's helmet flying and drew a 15-yard penalty, helping the Bengals get into position for their game-winning touchdown in a 17-14 victory. After the game, Ochocinco posted a direct request to Goodell on Twitter, saying there was no harm done and he didn't want to see Lewis lose money.

Goodell, however, didn't listen: ESPN's Chris Mortensen reported on Friday that Lewis's next paycheck will be $25,000 lighter. The Baltimore Sun notes that the fine represents 42.5 percent of Lewis' $58,823 weekly salary.

And while Ochocinco might not like it, this was obviously the right call: Lewis clearly led with his helmet and drilled a defenseless receiver in the chops. That's a textbook personal foul, and it's a play that gets players fined every week.

UPDATE: Adam Schefter of ESPN reports that Lewis was fined for two acts: The hit on Ochocinco and kicking an opponent.

http://nfl.fanhouse.com/2009/10/16/nfl-fines-ray-lewis-25-000-goodell-ignores-ochocincos-request/

Or this incident, which pretty clearly puts Mr. Lewis in the repeat offender camp with no apparent contrition for his actions. Makes me wonder why Goodell is unable to come up with a uniform enforcement policy for these types of actions

Baltimore linebacker Ray Lewis was fined $5,000 for a helmet-to-helmet hit on Indianapolis wide receiver Austin Collie during the Ravens' season-ending loss to the Colts. When asked about that fine, Lewis didn't hold back.

"For people who really enjoy the game of football, and who play the game the way I play the game, I look at that as being kind of embarrassing," Lewis said on ESPNews.

And Lewis then made clear that he doesn't mean he's embarrassed at having been fined -- he thinks the league office should be embarrassed for handing out a fine for what he believes was a clean hit.

"If I just went at him directly with my helmet, I'd understand that," Lewis said. "But you're talking about a man who's been playing this game for over 14 years, who respects the game to the utmost, and who never leads with his head first and foremost. I hit him with my shoulder pad, I knew I hit him with my shoulder pad. So for them to fine me, I'm a little disappointed."

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/01/23/ray-lewis-calls-his-fine-embarrassing/

Do not judge, or you too will be judged. For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you. Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother's eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? How can you say to your brother, 'Let me take the speck out of your eye,' when all the time there is a plank in your own eye?

Matthew 7:1-4

:wave:

Steve_Steelers
10-20-2010, 11:11 AM
On Mike and Mike today they were showing a picture of Harrion's hit on Massaquoi that you can BUY on the NFL website! Golic made a great point how can you make money off something you fined a player for?

Haha exactly, heard it on The Fan and thought they were joking. It's ridiculous!

DoubleYoi
10-20-2010, 11:25 AM
Ramblinjim and Chacha are right on with their takes on this. Sending money to the league office is only ensuring that Harrison himself does not have to pay a fine. A fine of $75k is a drop in a bucket to James. Sending money to another charity would show that fans are behind Harrison 100% while benefiting another charity in the process. Allegheny Valley Schools would be a decent choice since the Terrible Towel proceeds already go there. Have people leave their name and amount donated in a petition-style format and send the final tally to Goodell's office with a scathing letter. Just my two cents.

steelax04
10-20-2010, 11:32 AM
And they had He Hate Me

steelerchad
10-20-2010, 12:00 PM
This game will be soccer soon with players diving and writhing in pain after being taken down. I'm not saying either Cribbs or Massoquia did this after Harrison nailed both of them. But, if they pop right up after those hits I guarantee neither hit is given a second look by the league and no fine levied.

There will be a double standard on hits and I contend that the main factor of punishmnent being dished out will be weather or not the other player was injured.

jjpro11
10-20-2010, 12:02 PM
none of us can comprehend the level of speed in the NFL because none of us have ever played at that level. the people all up in arms about the hard hitting are douchey sports writers, league officials who sit in a chair, and fans of the opposing teams. there's a reason why the only people defending the hitting are the players themselves, and that includes offensive players and even the victims of such hits.

steelax04
10-20-2010, 12:08 PM
none of us can comprehend the level of speed in the NFL because none of us have ever played at that level. the people all up in arms about the hard hitting are douchey sports writers, league officials who sit in a chair, and fans of the opposing teams. there's a reason why the only people defending the hitting are the players themselves, and that includes offensive players and even the victims of such hits.

Not only that, but they review these plays under super slo-mo, disecting each play frame-by-frame.

Paralysis by analysis? Sounds like the NFL is analyzing themselves into the ground.

Fire Haley
10-20-2010, 12:09 PM
Steelers are the nation's bad boy team now - I kinda like it.

jjpro11
10-20-2010, 12:14 PM
Steelers are the nation's bad boy team now - I kinda like it.

it would be a beautiful big "F*** YOU" to the league and all the crying fans if the Steelers win the Super Bowl this year.. for Ben and Harrison especially.

SacknificentStew56
10-20-2010, 12:24 PM
Although Silverback's hit was vicious, it wasn't as intentional as Merriweather's or Robinson's. 75K is way too much for that fine. I'm glad he'll appeal is and hopefully it'll get reduced drastically. The NFL is getting soft real fast and i'm starting to lose interest. If Silverback quits, so will I. LOL!!

bigchuck
10-20-2010, 12:29 PM
labeled a repeat offender??? what is he a child molester now?? the guy is mean and plays mean and makes big hits, thats what he got a huge ass contract for. not for playing paddy cakes and poor arm tackles.

bigchuck
10-20-2010, 12:31 PM
for such a dumb throw over the middle on such a physical and dangerous defense.

SteelCityMom
10-20-2010, 12:34 PM
Ok folks...I'm gonna start merging all these random thought threads on Harrison's fine and make a sticky. It's getting really cluttered on here right now.

chacha
10-20-2010, 12:46 PM
Although Silverback's hit was vicious, it wasn't as intentional as Merriweather's or Robinson's. 75K is way too much for that fine. I'm glad he'll appeal is and hopefully it'll get reduced drastically. The NFL is getting soft real fast and i'm starting to lose interest. If Silverback quits, so will I. LOL!!

I didn't think Robinson's hit was intentional at all. The only one that looked intentional to me was Meriweathers.

Atlanta Dan
10-20-2010, 12:50 PM
labeled a repeat offender??? what is he a child molester now?? the guy is mean and plays mean and makes big hits, thats what he got a huge ass contract for. not for playing paddy cakes and poor arm tackles.

Goodell makes it up as he goes along

As stated in my earlier post, Ray Lewis hit Ocho Cinco in the 2009 regular season and was fined $25,000

Lewis then goes helmet to helmet on a Colts receiver in the playoffs (aka he is a repeat offfender) and is fined $5000:noidea:

That does not make sense but in Goodell Land it is only required to make sense to the Commissioner's Office

ETL
10-20-2010, 01:05 PM
Seems like the nfl is responding to public outcry. Harrison had bad luck in that his hits occurred the same week as Desean Jackson's hit. That is why he was fined so much.

NFL has no logical system for issuing fines. Just a public barometer. This also explains why Ben was suspended and Vince Young wasn't.

gostillerz
10-20-2010, 01:38 PM
You gotta hit the NFL in the pocketbook. As much as I would hate to do it, a boycott of official Steeler NFL merchandise would send a message. Unfortunately, the Steeler organization and the other vendors would also suffer.

jjpro11
10-20-2010, 01:44 PM
Seems like the nfl is responding to public outcry. Harrison had bad luck in that his hits occurred the same week as Desean Jackson's hit. That is why he was fined so much.

NFL has no logical system for issuing fines. Just a public barometer. This also explains why Ben was suspended and Vince Young wasn't.

and what sucks is the Jackson hit was a perfectly legal shot.. i have yet to see anyone in the media or anywhere claim otherwise. everyone assumes since Harrison was fined, his hit was dirty.. well Daunta Robinson was fined for a completely legal hit as well.. it just shows how stupid the league office is acting.

geo123
10-20-2010, 01:48 PM
As far as Dungy I'm surprised he was part of a physical D back in the day. I think the fine was excessive especially since there was no penalty. It's just that it was a bad week for hard hits and injuries.
Kind of funny that the NFL(films) kind of glorifies the old many of the old hitters like Butkis, Lott, Marchetti, Deacon Jones etc.. and now it's a problem.
What would Jack have to say about that?

lionslicer
10-20-2010, 01:57 PM
As far as Dungy I'm surprised he was part of a physical D back in the day. I think the fine was excessive especially since there was no penalty. It's just that it was a bad week for hard hits and injuries.
Kind of funny that the NFL(films) kind of glorifies the old many of the old hitters like Butkis, Lott, Marchetti, Deacon Jones etc.. and now it's a problem.
What would Jack have to say about that?

NFL films, though it has the license to shoot NFL games and do what they do, is a seperate company from the NFL all together.

NFL hasn't bought the rights to NFL films, and until they do that, NFL films can show whatever they want and the NFL wont ban them from showing certain clips because NFL films generates $50 million every year, so NFL obviously likes to be apart of that.

SteelMusic
10-20-2010, 02:10 PM
A big part of the problem is that over the years, with all the changes in the rules regarding hitting the qb and pass interference, the offenses are playing more aggressively and throwing more. With more throws over the middle to these speedy receivers your going to get more big collisions and less time for the defender to even thing about how to tackle.

It was the "league" who turned this into a passing game and now that defenses are adapting to make teams think twice about taking advantage of a handicap imposed on them from the guys making the rules, they want to completely handicap the defense to the point where offenses will have a huge advantage in the passing game.

If the nfl wants to change the way defenders are expected to hit, fine... take away the 5 yard chuck zone rule and let them fight all the way down the field like back in the day. That would eliminate so many big hits because the defenders will already be right in the receivers face and not having to sit back and wait for them to catch the ball to light them up.

theplatypus
10-20-2010, 02:26 PM
A big part of the problem is that over the years, with all the changes in the rules regarding hitting the qb and pass interference, the offenses are playing more aggressively and throwing more. With more throws over the middle to these speedy receivers your going to get more big collisions and less time for the defender to even thing about how to tackle.

It was the "league" who turned this into a passing game and now that defenses are adapting to make teams think twice about taking advantage of a handicap imposed on them from the guys making the rules, they want to completely handicap the defense to the point where offenses will have a huge advantage in the passing game.

If the nfl wants to change the way defenders are expected to hit, fine... take away the 5 yard chuck zone rule and let them fight all the way down the field like back in the day. That would eliminate so many big hits because the defenders will already be right in the receivers face and not having to sit back and wait for them to catch the ball to light them up.


I was watching Steve Young on some show yesterday and he was blaming today's quarterbacks for some of the stuff going on now. He basically said that some of these guys don't have the experience or knowledge to not put their receivers in harms way. It got me thinking about how Mcnabb is frequently busted on for throwing the ball low. I'm beginning to think that he does it intentionally to protect his receivers. If he puts the ball up his receiver will get destroyed, but keeping it low they move the chains and the receiver lives for another down.

jjpro11
10-20-2010, 02:28 PM
A big part of the problem is that over the years, with all the changes in the rules regarding hitting the qb and pass interference, the offenses are playing more aggressively and throwing more. With more throws over the middle to these speedy receivers your going to get more big collisions and less time for the defender to even thing about how to tackle.

It was the "league" who turned this into a passing game and now that defenses are adapting to make teams think twice about taking advantage of a handicap imposed on them from the guys making the rules, they want to completely handicap the defense to the point where offenses will have a huge advantage in the passing game.

If the nfl wants to change the way defenders are expected to hit, fine... take away the 5 yard chuck zone rule and let them fight all the way down the field like back in the day. That would eliminate so many big hits because the defenders will already be right in the receivers face and not having to sit back and wait for them to catch the ball to light them up.

did you happen to watch ESPN First Take today? :chuckle: that's exactly what the one guy said. receivers are basically running around at full speed in the open field because the NFL eliminated the ability for defenders to slow them down with hand checks and such. it's become so hard to defend a receiver one-on-one, that unless you guess his route exactly right or are one of the few physically gifted CBs who can keep up with anyone... the only way to force an incomplete pass is to dislodge the ball from the receiver by any means possible because the defenders' jobs depend on it.

SteelMusic
10-20-2010, 02:33 PM
did you happen to watch ESPN First Take today? :chuckle: that's exactly what the one guy said. receivers are basically running around at full speed in the open field because the NFL eliminated the ability for defenders to slow them down with hand checks and such. it's become so hard to defend a receiver one-on-one, that unless you guess his route exactly right or are one of the few physically gifted CBs who can keep up with anyone... the only way to force an incomplete pass is to dislodge the ball from the receiver by any means possible because the defenders' jobs depend on it.

No I didn't, but I agree 100%. I think the NFL created this problem and now they are destroying the game to try to compensate for injuries in a naturally violent game.

gostillerz
10-20-2010, 03:28 PM
Ask Roger-
http://chat.nfl.com/front/index/1177?module=HP_spotlight

jjpro11
10-20-2010, 03:36 PM
I was watching Steve Young on some show yesterday and he was blaming today's quarterbacks for some of the stuff going on now. He basically said that some of these guys don't have the experience or knowledge to not put their receivers in harms way. It got me thinking about how Mcnabb is frequently busted on for throwing the ball low. I'm beginning to think that he does it intentionally to protect his receivers. If he puts the ball up his receiver will get destroyed, but keeping it low they move the chains and the receiver lives for another down.

i can't recall any recent plays where we had a receiver lit up and injured like Massaquoi... Hines Ward against the 49ers a couple years ago was the last one i remember. Ben threw it too high, Ward went up for it and got hit pretty hard. he suffered a leg injury that bothered him throughout the rest of the season. say what you want about Ben and the lack of film study he is known for.. but i don't see him leading his receivers into death traps like some of these other QBs. he'll throw an occasional bad pass, but he's damn good at reading coverages. and our receivers aren't stupid enough to run through zones straight into awaiting defenders. you wonder how Hines Ward has lasted so long in this league despite his physical style of play? it's because he is a smart receiver. going over the middle is one thing, putting yourself in avoidable danger is another.

McCoy had no business throwing that floater of a pass against the Steelers defense in that situation. the Steelers were spread out all over the field in a zone prevent formation. floating a pass behind the receiver in that situation was just a disaster waiting to happen. you can chalk that up as inexperience because both the QB and WR are young and haven't been around long enough to read a complex defense like the Steelers.

theplatypus
10-20-2010, 03:46 PM
McCoy had no business throwing that floater of a pass against the Steelers defense in that situation. the Steelers were spread out all over the field in a zone prevent formation. floating a pass behind the receiver in that situation was just a disaster waiting to happen. you can chalk that up as inexperience because both the QB and WR are young and haven't been around long enough to read a complex defense like the Steelers.

That's exactly the point Young was making.

SteelCityMom
10-20-2010, 05:39 PM
Good Morning Everyone,

Please check out my page on Facebook.

http://www.facebook.com/pages/Pay-James-Harrisons-Bogus-Fine/134796989903782

I have started this page in support of James Harrison and to send a very strong message to Roger Goodell from STEELER NATION.

I am asking everyone to mail ONE DOLLAR to the league office:

Roger Goodell,
c/o National Football League
280 Park Avenue
New York, NY 10017.

Enclose a note that states: to pay James Harrison's fine
from STEELER NATION
I was interviewed this morning on KDKA radio on the John and Larry show.
I will link you to the interview when it is posted.

Thanks!

Wow...amazing how quickly that page has caught on already! This is by far my favorite letter so far.

http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc4/hs763.snc4/66305_134947379888743_134796989903782_202996_83401 43_n.jpg

MasterOfPuppets
10-20-2010, 06:38 PM
hmmmm...lets see here...:scratchchin: ...instead of sending money to the person your supporting , lets send it to the person your protesting ...:doh: ...i'm sure godell will think long and hard about this while he's putting your dollars in his pocket ... dumbasses ....:sofunny:

SteelersinCA
10-20-2010, 09:55 PM
hmmmm...lets see here...:scratchchin: ...instead of sending money to the person your supporting , lets send it to the person your protesting ...:doh: ...i'm sure godell will think long and hard about this while he's putting your dollars in his pocket ... dumbasses ....:sofunny:

HAHAHAHA :flap::banging:

MasterOfPuppets
10-20-2010, 11:08 PM
HAHAHAHA :flap::banging:
just think , if he can get enough pissed off idiots to send him $ 1 , he can buy himself a new mercedes ...

Lex Yinzer
10-21-2010, 09:28 AM
...you can tackle without having to lead with your head into the other guy's head. That's what is at issue here.

I'm getting really sick of people like you, the trolls who post on Bleacher Report and Fiorio's NBC blog and even some of the hometown guys on The Fan talking about this being a helmet-to-helmet hit and Harrison "leading with his helmet."

Harrison DID NOT "lead with his helmet."

Harrison led with his arms. The obvious - not just obvious, but FREAKING obvious - intent was to hit the guy in the numbers.

The hit was only helmet-to-helmet because the Browns' receiver lowered his head. Harrison had neither the knowledge that he was going to do that nor the ability to compensate moving at full speed.

Stop flat out lying and saying that Harrison led with his helmet, because he did not.

This was not a "dirty" hit, and those people who believe he intentionally went for the head - even though it was the actions of the receiver that led to the helmet-on-helmet contact, which Harrison could not reasonably be expected to anticipate - do tell us what crystal ball or power of ESP or mind reading you possess wherein you "know" that Harrison intended to hit the guy helmet-first.

And to those bitching about the fact that Harrison is upset? Were you falsely accused of something and maligned because of it, you would be upset too.