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mesaSteeler
10-19-2010, 10:07 PM
James Harrison, Dirty Hits, the Media, Roger Goodell and NFL Safety
Posted on October 19, 2010 by ryan
http://www.steelerslounge.com/2010/10/player-safety-media-pr-collide/

Things I learned this week: football is violent. I also learned that people, in general, are dumb. The media-generated backlash from a weekend full of helmet-to-helmet hits has had basically the same effect Karl Rove’s media machine had on unsuspecting dipshits during the first half of George W. Bush’s administration.

I’m not trying to turn this into a political discussion and, frankly, I don’t care if you’re Republican, Democrat, Tea Party or Whig. Here’s my point: sometimes folks grab a pitchfork and join the mob without considering exactly what it is they’re railing against. And that’s exactly what happened after a handful of “holy shit” helmet-to-helmet collisions in Week 6.

So, naturally, the first order of business was to blow everything out of proportion and act as if it’s just now dawned on us that, you know, football is violent. And once that was established, it was only logical to conclude that suspensions for repeat, flagrant offenders would be the only suitable solution. To send them the message that helmet-to-helmet hits won’t be tolerated.

(By the way, it’s gotten to the point that I don’t even know what the rules are. If James Harrison had been flagged for both the Cribbs and Massaquoi hits I wouldn’t have been surprised or upset. But the NFL’s Greg Aiello said after the game that the Cribbs hit was legal, although the Massquoi hit was being reviewed. And if it turns out that Harrison is a little lighter in the wallet for the latter, that’s fine too. Officials have flagged similar-looking plays before. But let’s not make him out to be a serial killer. Whether you want to admit it or not, the NFL markets violence because people like it. Just pointing out what should already be obvious but clearly isn’t.)

This isn’t a diatribe against keeping guys safe. It’s a diatribe against faulty logic and overreactions. Helmet-to-helmet hits have been a part of football, well, forever. Rodney Harrison was suspended eight years ago for a helmet-to-helmet hit against Jerry Rice. And you know what? When he returned from suspension he was still a dirty player who still got fined for — you guessed it — dirty hits.

And that leads me to this: where’s the research that suggests that suspending players is some kind of long-term deterrent? I mean, if we’re serious about player safety and removing these types of plays from the game, shouldn’t we have some notion about whether a punishment works before we proclaim that we’re serious about it?

Not only that, Roger Goodell’s doesn’t have the best track record when it comes to punishments fitting the crime. If anything, his approach can best be described at haphazard. That might make for good PR (“He’s coming down hard on offenders!”) but again, there’s no proof that randomly assigning punishments actually reduces crime. Isn’t that sorta the point?

And while I’ve heard countless times in the past few days that nobody cares more about player safety than Goodell, I have a hard time reconciling that with the fact that an 18-game schedule seems very likely in 2012.

Here’s Goodell in August: “We want to do it the right way for everyone, including the players, the fans and the game in general,” Goodell said. “There’s a tremendous amount of momentum for [an 18-game schedule]. We think it’s the right step.”

If this is the champion for safety, the players are in deep shit. Let me know when Goodell and the NFL quit talking out of both sides of their mouth.

mesaSteeler
10-20-2010, 12:53 AM
http://blog.triblive.com/view-from-the-press-box/2010/10/19/did-nfl-make-an-example-of-the-wrong-player/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+triblive%2Fblog%2FViewFromThe PressBox+%28View+from+the+Press+Box+Blog%29
View From The Press Box



Did NFL make an example of the wrong player?
October 19th, 2010

The Steelers locker room should be interesting Wednesday afternoon as it will be the first media access since the NFL hit James Harrison with a $75,000 fine.

Harrison has to be livid at the penalty. And you can bet his teammates will speak out in support of the outside linebacker since the Steelers contend that Harrison was merely doing his job on the hit that knocked Browns wide receivers Mohamed Massaquoi out of last Sunday’s game.

Consider what free safety Ryan Clark, a fearless hitter in his own right, said about Harrison after the Steelers beat the Browns, 28-10.

“He doesn’t lead with his head. He’s just a guy that hits with his shoulder but he’s explosive, uses his legs,” Clark said. “That’s what defense is about, being physical and running to the ball.”

I applaud the NFL’s attempt to reign in headhunters with hefty fines and the newly introduced threat of suspensions though a part of me wonders if commissioner Roger Goodell is becoming too much like big government in how he runs the league.

Clearly the NFL is making an example of Harrison, who has been fined twice this season for unnecessary roughness. Question is, are they making an example out of the right guy?

Patriots safety Brandon Merriweather only received a $50,000 fine for his bush league hit on Todd Heap last Sunday.

Merriweather clearly launched himself at Heap’s head with the intention of taking out the Ravens tight end.

That is the kind of play the NFL appears to be targeting in its crackdown on illegal helmet-to-helmet hits.

Harrison probably didn’t score any points with the league by saying he likes to hurt opposing players though not injure him. And NFL executive vice president of football operations Ray Anderson said Harrison received a bigger fine than Merriweather and Falcons cornerback Dunta Robinson, who was also docked $50,000, because he is a repeat offender.

Whether the punishment is fair or not -- and Harrison’s agent, Bill Parise, plans to appeal it -- is probably irrelevant at this point since the NFL is so resolute about ridding the game of helmet-to-helmet hits on players it deems defenseless.

“We are committed to safety at the highest level,” Anderson said Tuesday on ESPN’s “Mike & Mike” morning radio show. “We will take all of the criticism and the backlash against those who say that we are acting too aggressively in this regard. We are not going to be apologetic. We are going to protect our players and hopefully players at the lower levels as well.”
Filed under: Steelers Comment (0)

mesaSteeler
10-20-2010, 12:56 AM
Tomlin supports fining players, but not Harrison
http://tribune-democrat.com/prosports/x1744208104/Tomlin-supports-fining-players-but-not-Harrison
ALAN ROBINSON Associated Press Tue Oct 19, 2010, 11:24 PM EDT

PITTSBURGH — Steelers coach Mike Tomlin is a strong supporter of the NFL’s crackdown on dangerous hits. He’s equally adamant in his support for linebacker James Harrison, whose violent play resulted in a big fine and may have pushed the league toward its toughened stance.

Despite Tomlin’s argument that Harrison’s concussion-causing hit Sunday on Browns receiver Mohamed Massaquoi didn’t violate league rules, the NFL fined Harrison $75,000 on Tuesday.

Harrison’s fine was announced a few hours after the league said it would immediately begin suspending players for dangerous and flagrant hits, particularly those involving helmets.

While Harrison was not suspended, his agent, Bill Parise, called the fine “staggering” and said he would appeal.

“I’ve talked to James, and he’s very upset,” Parise said. “He’s quite confused about how to play football.”

Earlier, Harrison said it would be a “travesty” if the league took action against him.

Harrison, the 2008 AP NFL Defensive Player of the Year and a three-time Pro Bowl outside linebacker, rammed headfirst into Massaquoi as the receiver was attempting to complete a catch during the second quarter. Massaquoi briefly crumpled to the turf but was soon on his feet, although he didn’t return to the game.

That play occurred a few minutes after Harrison’s helmet-first hit sidelined Browns wide receiver Joshua Cribbs with a concussion. Harrison lowered his head and drove into the left side of Cribbs’ helmet, a tackle the NFL said Monday was permissible because Cribbs was a runner on the play. That hit did not factor into Harrison’s fine, and Harrison wasn’t penalized on either play.

Tomlin called both tackles “legal hits, not fineable hits,” but the league didn’t agree about Harrison’s hit on Massaquoi.

“Cribbs was a wildcat quarterback, he’s a runner – and those guys are not protected,” Tomlin said. “A few weeks ago, you asked why (Steelers quarterback) Dennis Dixon does not run. The NFL is a dangerous place for non-running backs running in close quarters.”

Harrison not only wasn’t apologetic for the hits, he said he tries to hurt players because it increases the Steelers’ chances of winning. Harrison drew a line between hurting and injuring, saying his intent wasn’t to put players out of games.

With Cribbs unable to run the wildcat formation that Cleveland used effectively in upsetting Pittsburgh 13-6 in December, the Steelers went on to win 28-10 on Sunday.

“I didn’t see those comments, but I know James,” Tomlin said. “James says a lot of things he doesn’t necessarily mean. He’s a tough talker, like a lot of guys that play the game at this level. If you want to get to know James, catch him on a Tuesday when he’s walking through the building with his son. He’s a big softie.”

Tomlin argued there is room in the league for physical play like the Steelers encourage, yet also safe play. One way to eliminate some helmet hits, he said, is to further emphasize a lowering of the strike zone, the area where players are tackled.

“I’m all for player safety. I think it is the proper initiative that the NFL has,” Tomlin said. “I think we need to safeguard the men that play this game to the best of our abilities and make it as safe as we can. I’m a proponent of player safety and whatever rule or rule adjustments we need to make to make it safer.”

mesaSteeler
10-20-2010, 01:03 AM
Collier Give NFL top brass an A for fines, F for no flags
Wednesday, October 20, 2010
By Gene Collier, Pittsburgh Post-Gazette

So the NFL is going to start suspending the people responsible for its most "egregious" head-to-head collisions.

Good.

Start with the officials.

It's one thing for players not to know the rules, but players aren't paid to know what constitutes encroachment or how many seconds to put back on the game clock in defiance of the whole space-time continuum. Officials, as I understood it from the ancient texts, in addition to being paid expressly for those purposes, owe their professional existence to not only knowing the rules, but to enforcing them correctly.

But that's strictly theory.

Perhaps owing to the unrelenting cadence of high-speed collisions, perhaps in deference to marketing forces that position the game as some celebration of violent acts you'd get arrested for in any other place, the modern NFL official enforces league rules selectively, ignoring some, insisting that others receive 100 percent compliance.

So please, keep those end-zone celebrations tasteful. Catering is frowned upon, certainly.

The most ignored rule in the league's ever-fluid digest of not-terribly-well-written rules is the one about the helmet. I'd even say it's ignored "egregiously," a word the NFL brass rarely delivers unto the fan base until somebody's really, really upset. I'm talking about the rule that prohibits "using any part of the player's helmet or facemask to butt, spear, or ram an opponent violently or unnecessarily."

If there are 130 plays in an NFL game, I'm going to say that something like that happens on at least a third of them. In the Steelers-Cleveland game Sunday, eight penalties were called, none for that particular violation.

Where is the flag for a defender running into an opponent head first? Where is the flag for the defender who launches himself at another player's head, intentionally compromising the safety of both's brains?

You might see a penalty flag occasionally for this, but they are nowhere near as common as the violation, and thus, nowhere near as common as concussions are in this game. The NFL, most conspicuously, but to similar extents the colleges and high schools as well, have created a football field where just about any kind of collision is not only permitted but encouraged.

Sunday was an especially brutal day for purposeful head trauma, coming as it did one day after a Rutgers University player was paralyzed below the neck making a tackle against Army. So the announcement Tuesday that suspensions are forthcoming for players who have no respect for the cognitive future of others or for themselves was most welcome.

It's not an overreaction in any sense, and, after decade of underreacting to the game's snowballing dangers, or not reacting at all, it's doubtful the NFL would even be, as Mike Tomlin might put it, overreaction capable.

There are plenty of overreactions out there, but they're nowhere near the implementation stage by any football administrators. One is the proposed elimination of helmets. Since rugby players routinely tackle each other without commonly disastrous head-banging, this theory goes, your footballers would be better off without them. Wrong, I'm afraid. Rugby is played by not-very-big people running not-very-fast, and players generally have enough to time to protect their heads. Football players explode at each other in bursts of adrenaline, the traffic often not allowing for even minimally protective reactions.

James Harrison's hit on Joshua Cribbs Sunday could not likely have been helped, because Cribbs changed direction directly into Harrison's path. But that's not the same as saying it shouldn't have been flagged. When a defensive player hits someone head first, flags should fly. It's the only thing that is going to change the way people are tackling. Harrison's hit on Mohamed Massaquoi, the one for which he'll pay $75,000, met every conceivable interpretation of unnecessary roughness and violated the newly legislated protections for defenseless receivers.

The fine itself, James apparently believes, is the media's fault.

Another overreaction would be to widen the field. The theory here is that the increased space will give players more operating room and thus more time to avert debilitating collisions. I think this would have the opposite impact. More space might make the game more exciting, particularly the running game, but given more room to run, the speeds attained by attacking defenders might only increase, and thus the danger.

What's truly astounding in all of this is the level of danger to which players will subject each other. New England defensive back Brandon Meriweather's helmet-to-helmet launch toward Baltimore tight end Todd Heap borders on the unconscionable.

Had Meriweather saved that one for this Sunday, I presume he'd have been suspended.

And still, that might still be too presumptuous, as I'm not at all sure he'd even be flagged.
Gene Collier: gcollier@post-gazette.com. More articles by this author


Read more: http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/10293/1096543-150.stm#ixzz12oUUEVQw

ricardisimo
10-20-2010, 01:49 AM
I wonder how Tomlin feels about fining coaches, particularly coaches who speak glowingly of how violent his men are.

wootawnee
10-20-2010, 02:22 AM
I wonder how Tomlin feels about fining coaches, particularly coaches who speak glowingly of how violent his men are.

Dude your a Troll.......

MattsMe
10-20-2010, 02:37 AM
Dude your a Troll.......

:sofunny:

Ric is a lot of things. Devout Catholic, champion for Republican causes, chronic masturbator.


But he's no troll.

wootawnee
10-20-2010, 02:52 AM
Here is the thing......Hits are only dirty looking if they are made by the teams/guys that you don't like...........

Rodney Harrison hits in Steeler country look dirty.......

Ryan Clarks do not.............

So I am not surprised when guys are fined , by the stupid guys that are called "the league",cause they are not the league..... The players, coaches, and owners are...period...

ricardisimo
10-20-2010, 03:48 AM
:sofunny:

Ric is a lot of things. Devout Catholic, champion for Republican causes, chronic masturbator.


But he's no troll.
You know me all too well, mein freund. And it's not chronic, it's acute... I'm sure it's going to pass soon, hopefully before the swelling and the pustules get any worse.

MattsMe
10-20-2010, 04:13 AM
You know me all too well, mein freund. And it's not chronic, it's acute... I'm sure it's going to pass soon, hopefully before the swelling and the pustules get any worse.

:blah: Go away troll.


I agree with you about the Tomlin comment. It's only a matter of time before our coach feels the wrath of der commissioner.

Rotorhead
10-20-2010, 10:42 AM
Here is the main problem as I see it. We have protected the QB's to the point where the players have to second guess their hits on them . . . now the defense has to start thinking twice about hitting a receiver . . . so basically we are supposed to allow the QB to throw the ball because we can't touch them and now we must allow the receiver to catch the ball and get a few steps before we are aloud to hit them . . . so . . . why dont we just get rid of defense altogether and just see how fast the offenses can score, the last one to score wins the game. What really pisses me off is the Harrison hit on Massaquoi (or whatever is name is), Harrison was aiming lower than his helmet, if the jackass would have been standing he would have been hit in the chest or lower. The receiver lowered his shoulder and head (which also shows he had enough time to defend himself) to Harrison's level and actually caused the helmet to helmet hit. How is that Harrison's fault? Further more, how is Harrison supposed to avoid what the receiver does? In the future, all the receiver has to do is aim his head at the defenders head and the defender is ejected (one of the possible outcomes) and suspended. Bam, a starting defender is lost for at least that game and possibly more! That asshat commisioner is hellbent on ruining the league.

Curtain_of_Steel
10-20-2010, 11:38 AM
Its to bad all the teams cant agree to take the first 2 series and rush for no yards and be tackled with one finger. The rb goes down and huddle up again.

The fans will go ballistic and goodell will have to address what the fans want. Which is football.

The problem with all this is, the weak teams who can built a lego house with their players would be against the feriousness of of teams like the steelers who breed pain. However if their is going to be a panel to decide on this, its needs to be fair and just with the player explaining the play, along with the actions of the player being tackled. You just cant give a fine like this without talking to the accused.

If there is a hard tackle where the guy whacks his head on the ground, is that the tacklers fault too? Fined, you hit him to hard. You must tackle softer, be a more kinder and gentler tackler.

SacknificentStew56
10-20-2010, 02:04 PM
There's supposed to be no second guessing in football because the moment when a defender does that to a QB, the pass will get completed for possibly the game winning TD, to a RB who might run you over if you're thinking about how to tackle instead of tackling or the WR who's coming across the middle while you're already in place to make the tackle, you take a millisecond or two to think about the consequences of the hit and get shook out your socks. Football is a violent, physical, and fast sport which all the players know that injuries are a part of the game and also know the consequences of leading with the helmet while making a tackle. Ask any defender if they try to lead with their helmet when tackling and i'm sure no one will say that they do. The NFL is becoming too soft.

scsteeler
10-20-2010, 02:22 PM
Maybe we should come up with the TWO TOUCH RULE. Instead of hitting the defensive guy you can touch him with 2 hands at the same time thus ending the play at the point of contact. This will ensure no one gets hurt. And for the QB's you only have to have one hand on him because we want to provide and extra measure of protection for QB's.


And to ensure the safety of the player anyone heading towards the out of bounds must continue going as to not have a defenseless player marred by more than 2 hands from would be tacklers.

This is a Start.

Fire Haley
10-20-2010, 03:24 PM
**** a duck

how many threads are gonna have about this?

SteelCityMom
10-20-2010, 04:51 PM
**** a duck

how many threads are gonna have about this?

I wasn't going to be as harsh lol, but yeah, a good bit of my morning was spent merging random thought threads about Harrison and the new rule into one sticky.

No disrespect to you Mesa, cause I love the articles you post, but I'm going to merge a few of them together to try and cut through the clutter a little bit more. It's gotten kinda nutso the past few days with this issue.

Atlanta Dan
10-20-2010, 05:04 PM
I agree with you about the Tomlin comment. It's only a matter of time before our coach feels the wrath of der commissioner.

IMO the coaches are as frustrated with ex post facto enforcement of the alleged "rules" as the players are.

Earlier Tuesday, Patriots Coach Bill Belichick raised an issue that also complicates the N.F.L.’s crackdown — the inconsistency of officiating. Harrison’s hit on Browns receiver Mohamed Massoquoi was a foul, Anderson said Monday, but it was not flagged.

“You just have to understand how the game is being officiated and what the calls mean — what’s a block in the back, what isn’t a block in the back; what’s illegal contact, what isn’t illegal contact, what’s pass interference, what isn’t pass interference, what’s holding, what isn’t holding,” Belichick said. “There are a lot of gray areas in all those calls, so we have to learn what those are and hope that the officials call them consistently from week to week, which, that’s an issue, too.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/10/20/sports/football/20hits.html?_r=1&ref=sports

ricardisimo
10-20-2010, 06:15 PM
I think Mesa's article is great. I agree 100% that Goodell and the owners have zero interest in player safety, and the push for 18 games is the clearest indicator.

There's much more to it, though. The geniuses at NFL corporate headquarters have decided that fans love nothing more than high-scoring offensive shootouts on Technicolor green "fields". This despite the fact that, as far back as I can remember, the highest-rated games each and every year tend to be Snow Bowl-type 6-3 defensive battles. The Sludge Bowl with Miami three or so years ago is a perfect example. This is to say that the league doesn't realize or care that their viewership is more sophisticated and football-literate than they care to admit.

But no. Let's have the game ratcheted up in speed as much as possible (emphasize the pass), turning the players into projectiles. Let's have them play on Astroturf so the "field" looks good on TV (at least from the advertisers' perspective) and to speed up the runners even more. Let's penalize defenders to maximize scoring, limiting contact until the catch has been made, forcing defenders to try to blow up the receiver so as to dislodge the ball from his hands. And let's handcuff the defensive players in every other possible way, boosting their aggression to the max, turning them into headhunters who would like nothing more than to decapitate the "primadonnas" on offense.

Geniuses, I tell you. Additionally, we have a small-scale version in football of what goes on in military and geopolitical strategizing, where "sword" and "shield" technologies feed off of each other, eventually becoming indistinguishable. This is why people are opposed to so-called "missile defense" systems, because they're not really defensive if all they do is boost the owner's sense of invulnerability and therefore also aggression. That's what today's football helmet is: a defensive weapon. If we went back to the leather helmets, I guarantee you'd see less guys launching themselves at their fellow players, and more guys wrapping up for tackles.

Finally, I wasn't really kidding earlier about coaches like Tomlin. He's got to tone down the "violent" rhetoric. Eventually someone's going to die on the field, and that's going to be on his head, and coaches like him. Players will start wrapping up when that gets coached again. And of course, the rules and goals of the game have to allow it. It won't happen, none of it, because the league clearly wants high speed, high impact, high scoring games. It's not going to change, in other words.

Atlanta Dan
10-20-2010, 07:05 PM
:
I agree with you about the Tomlin comment. It's only a matter of time before our coach feels the wrath of der commissioner.

Yep

Goodell put this memo out today

TO NFL PLAYERS AND COACHES:

One of our highest priorities is player safety. We all know that football is a tough game that includes hard contact. But that carries with it an obligation to do all that we can to protect all players from unnecessary injury caused by dangerous techniques from those who play outside the rules.

The video shown today shows what kind of hits are against the rules, but also makes clear that you can play a hard, physical game within the rules.

Violations of the playing rules that unreasonably put the safety of another player in jeopardy have no place in the game, and that is especially true in the case of hits to the head and neck. Accordingly, from this point forward, you should be clear on the following points:

1. Players are expected to play within the rules. Those who do not will face increased discipline, including suspensions, starting with the first offense.

2. Coaches are expected to teach playing within the rules. Failure to do so will subject both the coach and the employing club to discipline.

3. Game officials have been directed to emphasize protecting players from illegal and dangerous hits, and particularly from hits to the head and neck. In appropriate cases, they have the authority to eject players from a game.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d81b7b9ef/article/goodell-issues-memo-enforcing-player-safety-rules

Let's see if Goodell goes after Coach LeBeau for having been the D coordinator since James Harrison became a starter

tony hipchest
10-20-2010, 07:12 PM
atleast nobody cares about brett favres dick anymore.

brett favre.

ricardisimo
10-20-2010, 07:13 PM
Let me rephrase my question from earlier in the thread: I wonder how the owners are going to feel about getting fined for consciously designing a game that maximizes the odds that their player will get hurt?

ricardisimo
10-20-2010, 07:14 PM
atleast nobody cares about brett favres dick anymore.

brett favre.
Did it get injured? Did Harrison injure Brett Favre's penis? Oh, it's on now! Fine his ass!

lionslicer
10-20-2010, 07:28 PM
atleast nobody cares about brett favres dick anymore.

brett favre.

:sofunny:

I actually forgot about Favre for the past 2 days with all this dirty hit stuff.

Actually if you type Brett Favre into the News section on Google, you get more links to just NFL and the Vikings than this sex scandel.

But latest I heard on him, is his wife is going to start going on talk shows.. like the view.. :pde:

Atlanta Dan
10-20-2010, 07:44 PM
Let me rephrase my question from earlier in the thread: I wonder how the owners are going to feel about getting fined for consciously designing a game that maximizes the odds that their player will get hurt?

Nobody thought this through - all Goodell can see is having another Darryl Stingley disaster on his watch and wants to avoid that at all costs

The snowball started down the hill with Rodney Harrison boasting on the NBC pregame show that fines never deterred him, which made it a challenge to Goodell's manhood

The snowball picked up speed with James Harrison refusing to pretend he was sorry for what he did while Tomlin, as well as several players, started asking what exactly about it was about the Harrison and Dunta Robinson hits that were illegal as Belichick said it is hard to figure out what exactly is legal given the mediocre inconsistency of the refs in calling penalties

So Goodell once again needs to show who has the biggest **** without consulting with the owners or the union, with the latest step being the memo to try and shut up the coaches and any owner who might disagree

Now somebody will need to be ejected or suspended to establish the brave new world of no bad hits - any guesses on whether this will cause refs to flag anything and everything?

Certainly beats trying to explain why an 18 game schedule improves player safety or whether Brett Favre should be disciplined - as the saying goes "If you don't like what's being said, change the conversation."

ricardisimo
10-20-2010, 08:13 PM
As it turns out, JoePa and Ditka (http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/sports/steelers/s_705163.html) almost agree with me about the return of the leather helmet.

frunko1
10-20-2010, 08:37 PM
As it turns out, JoePa and Ditka (http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/sports/steelers/s_705163.html) almost agree with me about the return of the leather helmet.

I personally think if the nfl truly cared about player safety, they would do an open competition among manufacturers, and whoever could make the best safety gear gets a contract. Then force all the players to wear a standard set of gear. I think the best helmet would be a helmet that has a soft layer, hard layer, then another soft layer. Also add real chin/jaw support.

Atlanta Dan
10-20-2010, 08:59 PM
I personally think if the nfl truly cared about player safety, they would do an open competition among manufacturers, and whoever could make the best safety gear gets a contract. Then force all the players to wear a standard set of gear. I think the best helmet would be a helmet that has a soft layer, hard layer, then another soft layer. Also add real chin/jaw support.

During an online chat with Mike Pereira, NFL's Vice President of Officiating from 2004-09, that issue came up. According to him:


There are more than one style of helmet that players can choose to wear. The NFL does not mandate that players wear a single type of helmet. They don't mandate because they are concerned about liability issues.


http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/helmet-to-helmet-hits-Mike-Pereira-October-19-chat-recap-101910

In other words, the NFL is absolutely committed to player safety until it potentially has adverse financial consequences (see, e.g., why the regular schedule must be expanded to 18 games)

FWIW the entire chat was interesting although i do not buy into the concept being shilled by Pereira and the league office that none of this has anything to do with a change in the interpretation of the rules but that the light suddenly went on among all the refs who have not been calling penalties on these actions for several years that it really is a clear penalty

Pereira also had this response to anyone who thinks the league is going too far in changing how the game is played


If you don't like it, it's your prerogative -- don't watch it.

Those who choose to remain to watch it will get to see DeSean Jackson every game, Joshua Cribbs, Todd Heap -- they'll get to see all of those guys play every game. Enjoy boxing.

This is the attitude that permeates the front office of the league when it comes to raising ticket prices, expecting public subsidies of stadiums, or expecting everyone to agree with whatever Goodell does - they act as if nobody would ever quit supporting the NFL and that its popularity will never diminish

Nothing lasts forever

spyboots
10-20-2010, 09:17 PM
I'm confused. Does God-dell have the authority on his own to create this rule - without consent of the owners?

Atlanta Dan
10-20-2010, 09:27 PM
This guy obviously did not get Goodell's memo:toofunny:

Miami Dolphins linebacker Channing Crowder says the only way of preventing helmet-to-helmet hits is to eliminate the helmet.

Otherwise he's going to use his, regardless of punishment from league officials.

"If I get a chance to knock somebody out, I'm going to knock them out and take what they give me," Crowder said Wednesday. "They give me a helmet, I'm going to use it." ...

Crowder said the NFL is "making a big deal about nothing" and cited money as the motivation.

"They want to save the receivers and quarterbacks because they sell all the jerseys," Crowder said. "They don't give a damn at all about defensive players because we don't sell as many jerseys as them.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=5708701

I thought the Steelers were a lock to get the first unnecessary roughness penalty this Sunday in Miami, but Mr. Crowder has drawn a bulls eye on himself - of course Goodell may suspend him before the game even starts

ZoneBlitzer
10-20-2010, 09:37 PM
atleast nobody cares about brett favres dick anymore.

brett favre.

That's true. Little Brett is loving this.

ZoneBlitzer
10-20-2010, 09:41 PM
This guy obviously did not get Goodell's memo:toofunny:

Miami Dolphins linebacker Channing Crowder says the only way of preventing helmet-to-helmet hits is to eliminate the helmet.

Otherwise he's going to use his, regardless of punishment from league officials.

"If I get a chance to knock somebody out, I'm going to knock them out and take what they give me," Crowder said Wednesday. "They give me a helmet, I'm going to use it." ...

Crowder said the NFL is "making a big deal about nothing" and cited money as the motivation.

"They want to save the receivers and quarterbacks because they sell all the jerseys," Crowder said. "They don't give a damn at all about defensive players because we don't sell as many jerseys as them.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=5708701

I thought the Steelers were a lock to get the first unnecessary roughness penalty this Sunday in Miami, but Mr. Crowder has drawn a bulls eye on himself - of course Goodell may suspend him before the game even starts

That's an interesting take by Crowder. Boy, how stupid would the game look without helmets. It would have to devolve into rugby.

Atlanta Dan
10-20-2010, 09:48 PM
The backlash to Goodell arbitrarily deciding how the game should be played is ramping up quickly

Ray Lewis is worried about what's happening to his sport.

The Baltimore linebacker who epitomizes hard hits in the NFL fears that the league is stripping away the inherent violence and "the game will be diluted very quickly."...

Arizona Cardinals linebacker Joey Porter was clearly perplexed by the decision.

"There's no more hitting hard. That's what our game is about. It's a gladiator sport," Porter said. "I mean, the whole excitement of people getting hit hard, big plays happening, stuff like that.

"Just watch - the game is going to change."...

"What they're trying to say - 'We're protecting the integrity' - no, you're not," Bears cornerback Charles Tillman said. "It's ruining the integrity. It's not even football anymore. We should just go out there and play two-hand touch Sunday if we can't make contact."...

"Guys have to be coached differently because we've been coached a certain way our whole lives," said Cleveland linebacker Scott Fujita, a member of the executive committee of the players' union, the NFLPA. "I think people out there would be shocked at the things players hear in their meetings with their coaches and the things they are supposed to do, the way they are taught to hit people."

Many players also wanted stronger discipline for flagrant fouls to be part of their negotiations for a new collective bargaining agreement, not something unilaterally imposed six weeks into the season.

"We want to protect the players, absolutely," Fujita said. "But we need to have a longer conversation about it, and if you're going to impose sweeping changes like that and talk about suspending players, that's something that you have to address in the offseason.":thumbsup:

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2010/football/nfl/10/20/helmet.to.helmet.hits.ap/index.html?eref=sihp

SteelersinCA
10-20-2010, 10:53 PM
This guy obviously did not get Goodell's memo:toofunny:

Miami Dolphins linebacker Channing Crowder says the only way of preventing helmet-to-helmet hits is to eliminate the helmet.

Otherwise he's going to use his, regardless of punishment from league officials.

"If I get a chance to knock somebody out, I'm going to knock them out and take what they give me," Crowder said Wednesday. "They give me a helmet, I'm going to use it." ...

Crowder said the NFL is "making a big deal about nothing" and cited money as the motivation.

"They want to save the receivers and quarterbacks because they sell all the jerseys," Crowder said. "They don't give a damn at all about defensive players because we don't sell as many jerseys as them.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=5708701

I thought the Steelers were a lock to get the first unnecessary roughness penalty this Sunday in Miami, but Mr. Crowder has drawn a bulls eye on himself - of course Goodell may suspend him before the game even starts

That's funny, I can't remember buying an offensive players jersey. Oh well, he speaks the truth, real fans like defense. Women like offense. i.e. chics dig the long ball.

Shea
10-20-2010, 11:17 PM
That's funny, I can't remember buying an offensive players jersey. Oh well, he speaks the truth, real fans like defense. Women like offense. i.e. chics dig the long ball.

Wrong.

Try again.

SteelCityMom
10-20-2010, 11:22 PM
Agreed Shea...defense makes me hot personally.

Long balls are :puke:

MasterOfPuppets
10-20-2010, 11:35 PM
so chicks dig big sacks ?

Shea
10-20-2010, 11:40 PM
Agreed Shea...defense makes me hot personally.

Long balls are :puke:

My favorite players are on D, and it's a sexist remark by SCA.

real fans like defense. Women like offense. i.e. chics dig the long ball.

He's a good guy so I'll let it fly though.

This reminds me of WH and how he hated Staal.

How could a Steeler fan not appreciate and recognize great defense?? :doh:

That's been our bread and butter, and hopefully it always will be.

SteelCityMom
10-20-2010, 11:45 PM
My favorite players are on D, and it's a sexist remark by SCA.



He's a good guy so I'll let it fly though.

This reminds me of WH and how he hated Staal.

How could a Steeler fan not appreciate and recognize great defense?? :doh:

That's been our bread and butter, and hopefully it always will be.

Lol...he's just messing around.

MOP...you crack me up, but I gotta delete your pic. Those balls are way too big. :chuckle:

Shea
10-20-2010, 11:49 PM
Lol...he's just messing around.

No he wasn't.

Don't let him off the hook.

I say we kick his ass!

SteelCityMom
10-20-2010, 11:51 PM
No he wasn't.

Don't let him off the hook.

I say we kick his ass!

He was...but we can kick his ass anyway!! :smack:

MattsMe
10-20-2010, 11:52 PM
I think the best helmet would be a helmet that has a soft layer, hard layer, then another soft layer.

http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:OpQopOtZExbrfM:http://mancancook.net/wp-content/uploads/2008/12/double_decker_taco-300x300.jpg&t=1

Also add real chin/jaw support.

http://consumerist.com/images/consumerist/2008/06/feedbag002.jpg

Shea
10-20-2010, 11:59 PM
He was...but we can kick his ass anyway!! :smack:

He wasn't.

But I like your style. Why not?

It's either that or I'm heading my way to find and bump the bored thread. :nervous:

ricardisimo
10-21-2010, 12:49 AM
I personally think if the nfl truly cared about player safety, they would do an open competition among manufacturers, and whoever could make the best safety gear gets a contract. Then force all the players to wear a standard set of gear. I think the best helmet would be a helmet that has a soft layer, hard layer, then another soft layer. Also add real chin/jaw support.
... and a chocolate coating to make it go down easier.
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2627/4191825954_e25a40760f.jpg

MasterOfPuppets
10-21-2010, 12:59 AM
http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:OpQopOtZExbrfM:http://mancancook.net/wp-content/uploads/2008/12/double_decker_taco-300x300.jpg&t=1





http://beyondbeyond.co.uk/blog/wp-content/uploads/t_drooling_homer_2141-261x300.gif

FogOnTheMon
10-21-2010, 02:02 AM
Such a crap fine. Goodell once again proves himself as a Steeler hater.

SteelersinCA
10-21-2010, 11:58 AM
Wrong.

Try again.

Bah, It's a famous baseball quote. It was meant to be a sexist joke. Hater....:flap:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qLECMCargd8

Let the ass kicking commence, I'll enjoy it!!

StillSpotz
10-21-2010, 12:06 PM
In protest to the pussification of the NFL, all defensive players should skip out onto the field and do a kurtzie bow after every soft tackle.

cloppbeast
10-21-2010, 12:51 PM
Rick Rielly is such a tool bag. It's a shame that he gets paid by ESPN for this drivell, but I can't say I'm surprised. It's really not so bad that he's a tool, because a person can be a tool bag and a sports writer simultaneously (Bouchette is a tool, but a great sports writer), but Rick demonstrates a complete lack of knowledge on what happened.

Not sure if this has been posted yet:

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/news/story?id=5706465

Good, James Harrison. Please do retire. Make good on your threats and go drive a truck like your father did. And if you have as many head-ons in that job as you do in this one, heaven help you.

Harrison, the Pittsburgh Steelers hired headhunter, is talking about quitting after being fined $75,000 for using his helmet to knock not just one Cleveland Brown out of the game, but two, then issued words that were even uglier than his deeds:

Would Harrison Walk Away?

"I don't want to see anyone injured," Harrison said, "but I'm not opposed to hurting anyone."

I'm sorry?

"There's a difference. When you're injured, you can't play. But when you're hurt, you can shake it off and come back, maybe a few plays later or the next game. I try to hurt people."

Harrison does more than try. He purposely lowered his head into two Browns wide receivers -- Josh Cribbs and Mohamed Massaquoi -- sending them off to the "How many fingers am I holding up?" guy. Both men went for tests Monday, and it was uncertain whether either will play anytime soon.

No problem, says Dr. Feelbad.

"A hit like that geeks you up," Harrison said. "It geeks everybody up -- especially when you find out that the guy is not really hurt -- he's just sleeping. He's knocked out, but he's going to be OK."

It didn't geek Patti Drake up. She was a kind of surrogate mom for Cribbs at Kent State, where he was, believe it or not, a teammate of Harrison's.

"It sickened me," she says.

If we can have a rule that a player who suffers a concussion can't go in for the rest of the game, why can't we have the same rule for players who hand them out?

You know what would geek me up? Harrison out of the game. Because as much as I abhor the way he plays, I don't want the day to come, 10 years from now, when he starts suffering depression and slurred speech and all the other goodies that come with these massive crashes. Because no amount of sleeping is going to make everything OK then.

God knows how Harrison would've reacted if the NFL had done what it should've, which is to bench him for two games, one for each player he appeared to try to decapitate. If we can have a rule that a player who suffers a concussion can't go in for the rest of the game, why can't we have the same rule for players who hand them out?

The second to be suspended should be the refs in that Steelers-Browns game. Neither of Harrison's hits was flagged, even though both were purposely helmet-to-helmet and the second one, the assault on Massaquoi, was the blatant lighting up of a defenseless player. If the refs had flagged the first, we might not have had to watch the second.

And what does all this say about us? The Romans used to pack the Colosseum to watch barbarism and cruelty, a spectacle that dehumanized the fans as well as the combatants. Are we starting to become those fans?

New England's Brandon Meriweather head-butted Baltimore Ravens tight end Todd Heap in a shot so cheap and disgusting that you wanted to switch over to baseball.

By the way, if you're counting, that's five Eagles who've been concussed this season. Hey, who wants to make the season two games longer?

All in all, seven players left games Sunday with brain injuries. It was the kind of Sunday that makes you wonder what kind of person you are for sitting there watching.

Watching men turn other men's cerebellums into oatmeal is starting to bring up the bile. We now know what these collisions can mean later in life. We know because the NFL is telling us. We know because we heard about what the battered brains of Hall of Famer Mike Webster and Terry Long looked like. Oh, yeah, they were Steelers, too, weren't they?

Steelers coach Mike Tomlin defended Harrison, saying he's a "model" for young players to imitate. Oh, yeah, he's a peach. Fined $5,000 for slamming Vince Young into the ground. Fined $5,000 for unnecessary brutality against a Cincinnati Bengal. Had to go to anger management and undergo psychiatric counseling after being charged with assault on his girlfriend. Owned a pit bull that bit his son, the boy's mom and his masseuse. When's he running for Congress?

Helmet-to-helmet hits involve two helmets. But when somebody asked Harrison whether he was worried about the long-term effects on his own brain, he scoffed. "That's the risk you take," he said.

An answer that begs the question: What brain?

steelax04
10-21-2010, 08:52 PM
First, the Rick Reilly piece... total crap.

Second... here's the video the NFL put out on hits and player safety

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-videos/09000d5d81b80962/Player-safety?ref=nf

While I understand their point, the line between their illegal and legal hits is soooo thin, it's going to be a very controversial topic for a while.

86WARD
10-21-2010, 08:56 PM
http://i53.tinypic.com/2ptctgx.jpg

Atlanta Dan
10-21-2010, 09:19 PM
If anyone else watched the NFL Top 100 players episode tonight, the hypocrisy of the league office bemoaning this week how violent the game has "become" was exposed once again

Player #30 was Night Train Lane

This is the intro to the segment by Jerry Glanville - "There were two players in the NFL who tried to hurt you every play - Dick Butkus and Night Train Lane"

The next minute consists of shots of Night Train Lane making clothesline (aka forearm to neck) and various other headshot tackles

That is followed by Player #29 - Jack Lambert. That segment features classic Lambert shots such as Lambert throwing Cliff Harris to the turf in Super Bowl X and this quote - "I said maybe they should put quarterbacks in skirts - I meant it"

Maybe Goodell should fine the director of whomever produced tonight's episode for unnecessary glorification of a big part of what the NFL has been about for most of its history

tony hipchest
10-21-2010, 09:30 PM
today on total access they led off with the replay of james hit on massoquatever. then they played it again. and then again.

its freaking THURSDAY! they never milked a simple "jacked up" moment for so much exposure for the league.

the league loves the hit... it loves the demonization of violence because they know violence brings ratings.... they love miami hosting the steelers as the early national game (probably will be the highest rated game of the day).

MasterOfPuppets
10-21-2010, 10:25 PM
today on total access they led off with the replay of james hit on massoquatever. then they played it again. and then again.

its freaking THURSDAY! they never milked a simple "jacked up" moment for so much exposure for the league.

the league loves the hit... it loves the demonization of violence because they know violence brings ratings.... they love miami hosting the steelers as the early national game (probably will be the highest rated game of the day).
and i'm sure it'll make it into the NFL's biggest hits DVD for $ 39.95...

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51ZRPQK198L._SL500_AA300_.jpg

caplovestroyp43
10-21-2010, 11:40 PM
and i'm sure it'll make it into the NFL's biggest hits DVD for $ 39.95...

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51ZRPQK198L._SL500_AA300_.jpg


MOP you are such a RIOT!! :rofl::sofunny::chuckle: This place would be so borrrrrring without you! You're one of a kind!!

Hey may I ask what your first name is? And please, don't tell me Master. :rofl::rofl:

Cap

truesteelerfan
10-22-2010, 01:01 PM
Enought already about the helmet to helmet hits....over the top fines, and concussion talk.....WE GET IT....IT IS SERIOUS.

BUT- remember while the league wants to protect its players (ie:investments) remember these people have chosen this line of work....THEY KNOW THE RISKS, they see people get permanently hurt playing this dangerous game. Thats part of the reason I feel they get paid so much money for playing a game. NO, they wouldn't do it for $10/hour....but for the financial compensation they receive, they are willing to take the risks to their bodies because if they're good enough, their families will be financially secure for a long time to come.

You don't see the boxer association eliminate hitting do you? More people die in that sport as far as I've seen than football...How about MMA? Baseball, Hockey, horse racing, tennis, NASCAR all have risks associated with them- sometimes permanent injury can happen....But these individuals accept that risk when they sign on to play....Otherwise they would retire like Robert Smith of the Vikes a few years back, or Barry Sanders when they simply decided they either didn't enjoy the game, or the money wasn't worth risking their long term health.

So Goodell, writers stating what a horrible barbaric game that these animals play need to realize that these players have made a concious decision to risk their bodies for the competitive,and financial rewards.
Do I want players to get hurt? I agree with Harrison's post game comments..hurt is fine to knock them out of playing this week...but injured..NO...Yet if it happens, they can't say they didn't know it might happen.

Goodell doesn't need to worry about going over the top to protect these men....Sure, improve pads, helmets, etc...but you can't tell a person to run slower, or hit softer....

Hitting always has been...AND ALWAYS SHOULD BE part of this great American game...

IMO

ricardisimo
10-22-2010, 02:10 PM
I get what you're saying, but several of us are trying to make the point that this game is faster and more violent by design, and yet now the very people who designed that game are fining James Harrison for playing their game. That's hypocrisy of the first order, on a par with all of the banking industry shenanigans of recent years.

I guess the owners have finally figured out how to get financial concessions from the players in their ongoing negotiations: just fine the money back from them.

lionslicer
10-22-2010, 03:09 PM
I just got banned from another site for defending Harrison :P

Atlanta Dan
10-22-2010, 03:21 PM
"A lie can get halfway around the world before the truth can even get it's boots on.."
Mark Twain

Looks like the truth is finally catching up with the misrepresentations by the league office that was kicked off by the misrepresentions of the hypocritical Rodney Harrrison and sanctimionious Saint Tony Dungy last Sunday night.

For example, ex-Falcon and currrent Cowboy Keith Brooking has some observations

"There is no way you can prevent some of those hits from happening,'' Cowboys linebacker Keith Brooking said from Dallas Thursday night. "I know the Competition Committee has guys who know the game. I know [NFL VP of Operations] Ray Anderson, and I respect him. But this, to me, is a political agenda. They're trying to protect themselves. I agree with the emphasis on player safety, but let's face it: It's inevitable that someone's going to get hurt really bad out there. When? I don't know. But it's going to happen.''...

I asked him how the NFL's video -- Ray Anderson narrating hits that were in violation of league rules and some that were legal -- went over when the team watched it Thursday. "Of the five or six examples they showed of bad hits, I think I agreed with two of 'em,'' he said. "The Meriweather hit I can see. And the kid from Cleveland [Browns safety T.J. Ward]. I see where they're coming from on those. The guys in the room agreed, I think. But the other ones ... The hit by James Harrison [on Cleveland's Mohamed Massaquoi coming across the middle], the Cleveland receiver lowered his head. He ducked his head. And you can see where Harrison was going to hit him was in a good place -- in the chest or shoulders, but definitely below his head. And at the last second, the receiver lowers his head, and Harrison lays into him. Sorry. That's not Harrison's fault. The guys, I think, agreed with me. It's subjective. It's not black and white. That's why this thing is so hard.''

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2010/writers/peter_king/10/22/week.7.game.plan/index.html?eref=sihp

jjpro11
10-22-2010, 04:26 PM
tha'ts not going to change the opinions of the pencil neck writers and league officials pushing all these horse shit rules on players.

ricardisimo
10-22-2010, 08:57 PM
I just got banned from another site for defending Harrison :P
Well, you get a smiley on our site for your valor. :thumbsup:

Atlanta Dan
10-22-2010, 09:25 PM
I just got banned from another site for defending Harrison :P

I was unaware Goodell also spends part of his time as a mod for a football site